WEBVTT - CZM Rewind: They Don’t Care About Us: What Migrants Leave Behind

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<v Speaker 1>All media.

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<v Speaker 2>It's me James, and before we listen to this episode today,

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<v Speaker 2>I just did want to make you a way that

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<v Speaker 2>I conducted these interviews in French and Spanish, mostly Spanish,

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<v Speaker 2>and then transcribed and translated them. So what you're hearing

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<v Speaker 2>is a translated interview that's being edited for brevity and content.

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<v Speaker 2>I hope you enjoyed the episode, s l P G awesome.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the journey is dangerous, but what can we do.

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<v Speaker 3>We can't stay in a country where the economy is

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<v Speaker 3>getting worse and worse. With a salary of three dollars

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<v Speaker 3>a month, you can't survive. Like my friend said, if

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<v Speaker 3>you have a job in other countries, maybe you can

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<v Speaker 3>invest some money. But where are you going to get

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<v Speaker 3>the money to invest If before you had a salary

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<v Speaker 3>that fed you paid for your car, your house and

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<v Speaker 3>your children to enjoy it all with, and now you

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<v Speaker 3>can't even afford to put gas in the car. So

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<v Speaker 3>it's true. Yeah, the darien is dangerous, but nothing is impossible.

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<v Speaker 3>We walk hand in hand with God and with the

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<v Speaker 3>faith that we will get there. But that doesn't mean

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<v Speaker 3>it isn't difficult. But I'll say it again, it's not impossible.

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<v Speaker 3>You suffer, you cry, you go hungry cold, but thank

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<v Speaker 3>God we made it through.

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<v Speaker 2>Bored around the Touquesa River, the jungle rumbles quiet as

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<v Speaker 2>you pass by on your boat. Insects, frogs, and birds

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<v Speaker 2>all combined to make a sort of deep throbbing that

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<v Speaker 2>emanates from the darkness between the trees. It seems at

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<v Speaker 2>wants to be calling you in and warning you to

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<v Speaker 2>stay away. I've been in the jungle before, in the

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<v Speaker 2>Rwanda Congo borderlands and in Venezuela, but I've never really

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<v Speaker 2>felt the sense of foreboding I did as we rode

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<v Speaker 2>down the river, protected only by our hollow log, looking

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<v Speaker 2>into the triple canopy forest, and knowing that if I

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<v Speaker 2>walk long enough in the shadows, I'd be confronted the

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<v Speaker 2>remains of people I might have interviewed if it hadn't

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<v Speaker 2>been for a rolld ankle, a slippery rock, or a

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<v Speaker 2>desperate sip of water. To understand what drives people to

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<v Speaker 2>enter the jungle with their children and their dreams, I

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<v Speaker 2>think we also have to understand what drives them to

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<v Speaker 2>leave where they're living. And that's what I want to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about today, the story of migrants crossing the daddy

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<v Speaker 2>and gap is an American one. It's impossible to disentangle

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<v Speaker 2>the people making this dangerous journey from the history of

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<v Speaker 2>support for dictatorship, sanctions, and imperial plunder that ties to the

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<v Speaker 2>United States to its American brothers and sisters in the South.

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes I play a game with myself at the border

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<v Speaker 2>where I try and meet people from all the countries

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<v Speaker 2>named in Washington bullets in a single day. Since Biden

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<v Speaker 2>bungled the Afghanistan withdraw, it's become a lot easier, but

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<v Speaker 2>Tibet can be hard. For two hundred years, since President

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<v Speaker 2>Monroe gave his State of the Union address in December

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen twenty three, the US has seen the Western hemisphere

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<v Speaker 2>is its sphere of influence. While its opposed old fashioned colonialism,

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<v Speaker 2>it has used less avert methods of control as well

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<v Speaker 2>as overt military across the hemisphere. For much of the

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<v Speaker 2>last century, it supported and installed dictators who would prevent

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<v Speaker 2>what it saw as a threat of state socialism in

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<v Speaker 2>its sphere of influence, and allowed them to create economic

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<v Speaker 2>and political climates that were unsurvivable for the majority and

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<v Speaker 2>extremely profitable for US based corporations. The direct result of

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<v Speaker 2>this policy has been economic insecurity, political instability, and state

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<v Speaker 2>violence across South and Central America, resulting in people making

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<v Speaker 2>the very natural humor decision to flee to somewhere safer.

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<v Speaker 2>As in so many other empires, they've made the choice

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<v Speaker 2>to lead a destabilized colonial periphery and seek safety instability

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<v Speaker 2>in the metropol. For more than a century, money and

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<v Speaker 2>good have been able to travel seamlessly up and down

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<v Speaker 2>the continent, but people have not. The bananaread for breakfast

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<v Speaker 2>this morning made the journey in a few days, but

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<v Speaker 2>people take months, if not years, pay thousands of dollars,

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<v Speaker 2>climb mountains, forded rivers, and risk their lives on trains

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<v Speaker 2>and buses that cost a lot more than the flights

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<v Speaker 2>I took to Panama, but offer considerably less comfort and safety.

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<v Speaker 2>As climate change has have greater impacts, more and more

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<v Speaker 2>people are forced to leave their homes as their livelihoods

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<v Speaker 2>become less sustainable. The Guna, the indigenous people of the

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<v Speaker 2>Panamanian coast in an area called Guna Yala, are having

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<v Speaker 2>to withdraw from some of their islands because of sea

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<v Speaker 2>level rise. Right now, agriculture across the world is increasingly

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<v Speaker 2>threatened by extreme weather and rising temperatures, and our oceans

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<v Speaker 2>are less they're able to sustain life than they once

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<v Speaker 2>were due to pollution and overfishing. Forced to leave their

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<v Speaker 2>homes as people have been for millennia by weather patterns changing,

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<v Speaker 2>people head to places that have once caused much of

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<v Speaker 2>the issue and tried to insulate themselves from its consequences.

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<v Speaker 2>Their American dreams are modest. To overcome the crippling low

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<v Speaker 2>pay they received, a home, to bring their children up

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<v Speaker 2>in a place where they have a good chance of

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<v Speaker 2>surviving their twenties, to work and get paid enough to

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<v Speaker 2>get by. They want to be able to protest and

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<v Speaker 2>not get shot, and to look forward to the future

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<v Speaker 2>not feared. These aren't guaranteed in the USA, and as

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<v Speaker 2>many of you listening will know, it can be hard

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<v Speaker 2>for us to make ends meet here as well. But

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<v Speaker 2>despite what you see on social and legacy media, things

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<v Speaker 2>are unlikely to become as bad here as they are

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<v Speaker 2>in Venezuela, Cameroon or Iran anytime soon. I've lived in Venezuela,

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<v Speaker 2>specifically in the formerly jab eastern neighborhood of La Pastora

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<v Speaker 2>in Caracas, and I've seen how hard it is for

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<v Speaker 2>my friends who still live there. Even for people with

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<v Speaker 2>no other disadvantages, making rent and feeding your family can

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<v Speaker 2>be a challenge. That's part of why Venezuelan people make

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<v Speaker 2>up the majority of the folks I met me Dadian,

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<v Speaker 2>so much so that I'd slipped back into using Venezuelan

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<v Speaker 2>slang in Spanish, and after a few days of seeing

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<v Speaker 2>the same people engaging in the kind of friendly mockery

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<v Speaker 2>and banter that I remember well from Caracas, mostly the

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<v Speaker 2>super form of asking them why they crossed a Daddian

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<v Speaker 2>gap in Man United shirts or worse yet, in a

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<v Speaker 2>Chelsea shit. It's important to steal moments of humor in

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<v Speaker 2>these difficult times, to laugh a little among all the suffering,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's something people in Venezuela have done very well

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<v Speaker 2>for a very long time. But despite their humor, I

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<v Speaker 2>could tell the journey had a serious impact on the

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<v Speaker 2>people I spoke to.

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<v Speaker 4>You have to go through a lot, a lot of jungle,

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<v Speaker 4>a lot of hills. There are people, there are dead

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<v Speaker 4>people on the road, So it's it's something you cannot

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<v Speaker 4>really explain. It's complicated because everything can be explained in

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<v Speaker 4>a fashion, but it's it's not the same as living it.

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<v Speaker 4>It's insanity, three four days with that food and nothing.

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<v Speaker 4>One thing is to live it. Explaining it, talking about it,

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<v Speaker 4>that's different. It's hard to put into words.

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<v Speaker 2>This interview is when I conducted with one group of

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<v Speaker 2>Venezuelan migrants with my voice recorder in the chest pocket

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<v Speaker 2>of my shirt and whatever bags it let me carry

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<v Speaker 2>in my hands. We walked along the last part of

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<v Speaker 2>the trail, discussing what they'd seen. For a while, we

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<v Speaker 2>joked a little. One guy had crossed it a man

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<v Speaker 2>united ship. I talked him about the team and the

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<v Speaker 2>universe was dislike non Menu fans have for Menu fans.

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<v Speaker 2>Then after a while they opened up more about their experiences.

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<v Speaker 2>They had, they said, seen their bodies and they couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>stop thinking about what happened if they'd fallen, and they

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to know how, when or if the dead people's

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<v Speaker 2>family would ever find out.

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<v Speaker 5>The family waits for that person to come out to

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<v Speaker 5>hear that they made it, because if not, who's going

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<v Speaker 5>to let you know? There's no signal and nobody's going

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<v Speaker 5>to grab the body, and you're not going to carry

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<v Speaker 5>them out. The person stays there and eventually, years and

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<v Speaker 5>years go by and the family won't know where they

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<v Speaker 5>are or how they died. Those are the sort of

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<v Speaker 5>things that one doesn't expect to see, and it makes

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<v Speaker 5>you just want to hurry past. Not that you wouldn't

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<v Speaker 5>want to get the documentation from the body and deliver

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<v Speaker 5>it and tell them how this person had passed away,

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<v Speaker 5>But how dare you just go grabbing a dead body.

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<v Speaker 2>Vernetuinan elections were held on the twenty eighth of July

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<v Speaker 2>this year. Venezueynan presidents have a six year term and

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<v Speaker 2>the incumbent to colas Ma Duro, has been in office

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<v Speaker 2>since twenty thirty. I let the Venezuelan people and that

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<v Speaker 2>introduce themselves and explain the result of the election. Now

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<v Speaker 2>there's a bit of background noise here, but that's because

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<v Speaker 2>we were walking on the trails and it's hard to avoid.

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<v Speaker 3>I am coming from Venezuela, migrating through the jungle for

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<v Speaker 3>a better future for me and my children. I'll tell

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<v Speaker 3>you it's hard, but it's not impossible. No, that was

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<v Speaker 3>electoral fraud. And I tell you what, one day, you

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<v Speaker 3>just have to leave.

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<v Speaker 2>Maduro was opposed by A Juardo Gonzalez, an opposite candidate

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<v Speaker 2>who represented a wide coalition increating groups on the left

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<v Speaker 2>and right. One Maduro might have support among Western socialists

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<v Speaker 2>and even communists. The actual Venezuelan Communist Party's youth organization

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<v Speaker 2>formed part of the Popular Democratic Front that opposed him.

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<v Speaker 2>Despite Paul Watchers tallying a massive victory for the opposition,

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<v Speaker 2>Maduro controls the National Election Council and proclaimed himself the victor.

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<v Speaker 2>People protested, and Maduro responded with bullets. Gonzales fled to

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<v Speaker 2>the Dutch and then the Spanish embassy and later claimed

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<v Speaker 2>asylum in Spain, where his family lived. But for regular

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<v Speaker 2>working class Venezuelan's there's no option to hop on a

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<v Speaker 2>flight to safety. Instead, they have to be getting the

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<v Speaker 2>long walk north. As many Venezuelans respect you told me.

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<v Speaker 2>In addition to the electoral fraud, Venezuela is undergoing an

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<v Speaker 2>economic collapse, at least as the Chavis they said, most

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<v Speaker 2>people could eat. When I lived in La Pastora, I

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<v Speaker 2>was able to access medical care from Cuban doctors. Now

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<v Speaker 2>they say things have become a survivaldo so Venezuela.

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<v Speaker 6>When Venezuela well, I would say that Venezuela, you know, yeah,

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<v Speaker 6>you can live, but not on a minimum wage.

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<v Speaker 4>I would say that, for example, working independently in an

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<v Speaker 4>independent business, maybe you can live good. But working and

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<v Speaker 4>surviving for a minimum wage now, the truth is that

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<v Speaker 4>it doesn't work, and that's serious. Things are still bad

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<v Speaker 4>with the new elections and the new government. Everything is ugly.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>The streets of Caracas are full of protests. Every day.

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<v Speaker 4>People went out to protest. Sometimes they shoot people. The

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<v Speaker 4>government mistreats people. But if you can live with it,

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<v Speaker 4>and you can live with it it's ugly. Well, that

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<v Speaker 4>is why we left there for a better future, and

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<v Speaker 4>we will keep moving onward onward.

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<v Speaker 2>This group were young men traveling in advance with their families,

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<v Speaker 2>hoping to earn some money, save it up, and send

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<v Speaker 2>it home. They knew what they were getting into when

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<v Speaker 2>they got to the USA, that migrants were often underpaid

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<v Speaker 2>and might struggle to make ends meet, but they still

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<v Speaker 2>thought it was better than staying home and watching your

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<v Speaker 2>children's future disappear.

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<v Speaker 5>If you don't have papers, you don't have a work permit,

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<v Speaker 5>you have to work for it. They want to pay you,

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<v Speaker 5>not for what you demand or anything.

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<v Speaker 2>I met lots of Venezuela families with children who had

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<v Speaker 2>different illnesses or disabilities, things they couldn't obtain or afford

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<v Speaker 2>treatment for in Venezuela. They were traveling to the US

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<v Speaker 2>in the hopes of finding a better future for their kids,

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<v Speaker 2>or any future at all. I met young men who

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<v Speaker 2>left their children behind but carried the children of strangers,

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<v Speaker 2>even those with whom they didn't share a language. Christian,

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<v Speaker 2>who he heard from earlier, showed me how he'd carried

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<v Speaker 2>someone else's child on his shoulders until he fell and

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<v Speaker 2>hurt his knee. We all help.

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<v Speaker 4>I put little children up here on my shoulders to

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<v Speaker 4>carry them, but it isn't easy.

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<v Speaker 2>In the jungle, they'd formed chains using their arms to

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<v Speaker 2>cross rivers and carried little children on those who couldn't swim.

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<v Speaker 2>In Barji Guito, I saw a group of men from

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<v Speaker 2>Angola receiving hugs from Venezuela and women they'd helped in

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<v Speaker 2>the jungle. Without the help of the Angolans, they said

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<v Speaker 2>their children wouldn't have made it. One slip or a

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<v Speaker 2>loss of grip, they told me, would be fatal, and

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<v Speaker 2>the remains of those who had done just that served

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<v Speaker 2>as a grisly reminder. Later, little boys, maybe eight or

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<v Speaker 2>ten years old, gleefully recounted seeing a dead body on

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<v Speaker 2>which the head had quote exploded while their parents winked

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<v Speaker 2>in recollection. I wanted to understand a bit more of

0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:58.800
<v Speaker 2>what they were fleeing. That made it worth going through

0:11:58.800 --> 0:11:59.080
<v Speaker 2>all this.

0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:03.520
<v Speaker 6>Venezuela.

0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.840
<v Speaker 7>Well, I left Venezuela because I worked in fishing. But

0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.520
<v Speaker 7>right now, in Venezuela, despite the fact that it is

0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:13.200
<v Speaker 7>a country rich and oil, there's not enough gasoline for

0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:15.920
<v Speaker 7>the fishermen to go fishing. And since I did not

0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:19.240
<v Speaker 7>have the ability to even buy basic things such as food,

0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.320
<v Speaker 7>the situation was, well, it was a little complicated. I

0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:24.840
<v Speaker 7>had to immigrate. I had nothing else to do. They

0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.800
<v Speaker 7>didn't rob me, well, they were going to rob me

0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.800
<v Speaker 7>because I didn't have anything to steal. We passed by

0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.560
<v Speaker 7>and the group that was behind us got robbed. They

0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:34.800
<v Speaker 7>raped women in that group.

0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:39.440
<v Speaker 2>Almost every Venezuelan Migro and I spent to share a

0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.640
<v Speaker 2>similar story. One said he didn't store security cameras, but

0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.440
<v Speaker 2>nobody could afford them now, as it had to choose

0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.400
<v Speaker 2>between rent and groceries or medical procedures that they needed

0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:52.640
<v Speaker 2>but couldn't afford. Overwhelmingly, they said the same thing no aifuturo,

0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.600
<v Speaker 2>there's no future. One group said to me that they

0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:57.880
<v Speaker 2>couldn't wait for their country to become like Cuba, as

0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.800
<v Speaker 2>decades of embargos took their toll on the population. But

0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:03.080
<v Speaker 2>others reminded me in them that least of Cubans seem

0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:06.760
<v Speaker 2>to have doctors. Venezuela has an eighty percent poverty right now,

0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.160
<v Speaker 2>and though it sits on one of the largest oil

0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:11.560
<v Speaker 2>reserves of any country on Earth, it's been plagued by

0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:14.719
<v Speaker 2>planting oil prices in the years of hyperinflation, which got

0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:16.880
<v Speaker 2>so bad at one point the shots stopped putting price

0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.040
<v Speaker 2>tags on things and relied on staff to give up

0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:23.200
<v Speaker 2>to the minute prices. Today, alongside a regime that lacks legitimacy,

0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.360
<v Speaker 2>a state that readily uses horrific violence against his people,

0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.040
<v Speaker 2>an election that was essentially ignored, Venezuelan's must also deal

0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:34.920
<v Speaker 2>with shortages of basic goods, poverty, and malnutrition. Unlike Cubans

0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.280
<v Speaker 2>who have a relatively good political lobby in the USA,

0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.640
<v Speaker 2>Venezuelan's coming to the USA do not benefit from special laws.

0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:43.280
<v Speaker 2>Cubans under the Cuban Adjustment Act have a part of

0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:45.959
<v Speaker 2>the citizenship and permanence once they set foot on US soil.

0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.640
<v Speaker 2>Venezuelans do not. They're covered by something called a temporary

0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:52.560
<v Speaker 2>protected status, but this does not afford them much in

0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.760
<v Speaker 2>the way of stability, protection, or a secure future. His

0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:59.839
<v Speaker 2>Erecha Pinhidro of Alotolado and Incredible Organizations does valuable work

0:13:59.880 --> 0:14:04.040
<v Speaker 2>with migrant legal aid advocacy and humanitarian relief, explaining just

0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:05.640
<v Speaker 2>how temporary a TPS is.

0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:11.160
<v Speaker 8>So temporary protected status is it's basically a form of

0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.959
<v Speaker 8>protecting individuals who are already in the United States when

0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:19.760
<v Speaker 8>their countries have experienced a natural disaster, if they are

0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:23.440
<v Speaker 8>in war, there's some kind of situation going on that

0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:28.240
<v Speaker 8>makes it difficult for them to return, and so temporary

0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.840
<v Speaker 8>protected status was first created in nineteen ninety and the

0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:36.960
<v Speaker 8>first individuals who receive the status were from El Salvador,

0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:39.520
<v Speaker 8>and since then, I think there's been a few dozen

0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:42.320
<v Speaker 8>countries that have been designated. But basically the way it

0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:46.760
<v Speaker 8>works is they designate a country and so if you

0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:50.400
<v Speaker 8>were in the United States before that designation date, you

0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:55.520
<v Speaker 8>can apply for temporary protected status within a designated time

0:14:55.560 --> 0:15:00.360
<v Speaker 8>period and you get a work permit. It's valid for six,

0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:04.640
<v Speaker 8>twelve or eighteen months and then two months before it expires,

0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:09.200
<v Speaker 8>the Secretary of the Department of holand Security has to

0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.160
<v Speaker 8>say whether or not they're going to reauthorize GPS. So

0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.440
<v Speaker 8>there's like eight hundred and sixty thousand people in the

0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:22.160
<v Speaker 8>US who have temporary protected status and it's not a

0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:26.160
<v Speaker 8>pathtis citizenship. So basically people are just in limbo sometimes

0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:29.000
<v Speaker 8>for decades, you know. They just have to reapply for

0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:33.360
<v Speaker 8>this permit every eighteen months. So I have quite a

0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:36.720
<v Speaker 8>few salvador and friends who've been in the United States

0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:39.320
<v Speaker 8>since the nineties. They have kids, some of them a

0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:43.000
<v Speaker 8>cuarrent kids or a US citizen, and they can't become

0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.440
<v Speaker 8>permanent residents or have a paths the citizenship unless they

0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.280
<v Speaker 8>leave the country and either come back with another type

0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.240
<v Speaker 8>of parole or you know, apply through a consulate, which

0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:54.680
<v Speaker 8>many of them are just not willing to take that risk.

0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, makes things even more complicated for the Venezuelans, is it.

0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.520
<v Speaker 2>Many of them are traveling with that document. It costs

0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.480
<v Speaker 2>three hundred bucks to get a passport, they told me,

0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:07.000
<v Speaker 2>and the weight's considerable. This makes their journeys even harder

0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.160
<v Speaker 2>as every country the enter has to approve them to

0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:12.720
<v Speaker 2>without a passport getting a visa, they said, would be

0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.320
<v Speaker 2>nearly impossible, and just trying might result in the government

0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:19.000
<v Speaker 2>coming after them. Such things, they said, are reserved for

0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:22.680
<v Speaker 2>the wealthier citizens. People like Gonzales, who's asylum claim and

0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:25.240
<v Speaker 2>stays at the Dutch and Spanish embassies and his right

0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.720
<v Speaker 2>to join his family in exile are all luxuries that

0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.720
<v Speaker 2>most of his country people can't expect. Its dead. Most

0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:34.040
<v Speaker 2>Venezuelans must ride buses through Columbia, then walk north through

0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:37.520
<v Speaker 2>the jungle, then ride buses stir away on trains, or

0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.080
<v Speaker 2>walk again all the way to the border. They all

0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:42.920
<v Speaker 2>lamented to dai and crossing, and so they wouldn't advise

0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:44.640
<v Speaker 2>it without other options.

0:16:44.720 --> 0:17:01.160
<v Speaker 9>They all made it anyway, community see, because unfortunately we

0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.320
<v Speaker 9>don't have much in our country.

0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:05.480
<v Speaker 5>You don't have another option when you're dying of hunger

0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:08.240
<v Speaker 5>and you don't have a future, you can't even study.

0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:10.720
<v Speaker 5>So yeah, it's worth it.

0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.960
<v Speaker 2>The economic situation is dire in Venezuela. Many families can't

0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:18.600
<v Speaker 2>make ends me their currency is almost worth US, and

0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:21.080
<v Speaker 2>the majority government seems to have successfully installed itself for

0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.359
<v Speaker 2>the fueseeable future. This will mean a continuation of embargos

0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:28.360
<v Speaker 2>is sanctions, which will harm the people more than the regime. Sadly, though,

0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:31.199
<v Speaker 2>economic hot kIPS is not a criteria which won't be

0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.760
<v Speaker 2>grounded asylum in the USA his Erica.

0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:39.240
<v Speaker 8>Again, so severe economic deprivation can be persecution if it's

0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:44.200
<v Speaker 8>linked to one of the other projected grounds, so race, religion, nationality,

0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.359
<v Speaker 8>political opinion, or membership, but in a particular social group.

0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:54.280
<v Speaker 8>So for example, if someone participated in anti Moduro political

0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:58.359
<v Speaker 8>activity and then we're blocked from getting a job or

0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:02.520
<v Speaker 8>just denied economic opports to the point where they're starving,

0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:07.439
<v Speaker 8>the economic deprivation could count as persecution, but it's a

0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.960
<v Speaker 8>very difficult case to make in the United States. In Mexico,

0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:16.960
<v Speaker 8>you can get protection based on generalized conditions in your country,

0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:22.600
<v Speaker 8>and so you know, Venezuelans betweeing economic collapse or even

0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:27.400
<v Speaker 8>Central Americans fleeing extreme violence have a much easier time

0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:31.040
<v Speaker 8>dating protection in Mexico than they would in the United

0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:34.360
<v Speaker 8>States because of that kind of extra category of protection

0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.800
<v Speaker 8>in Mexico. The issue with Mexico is just the very

0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:41.159
<v Speaker 8>limited capacity of this islum system overall, and the very

0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:43.800
<v Speaker 8>dangerous conditions in which people are forced to wait while

0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:45.200
<v Speaker 8>their cases are judicated.

0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:49.159
<v Speaker 2>Going forward from the Dadian, they'll face an enormously difficult journey.

0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:52.040
<v Speaker 2>The US does have a program for Cubans, venezuelan Ands,

0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:54.520
<v Speaker 2>Haitians and Nicaraguans, then in theory allows them to apply,

0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:58.520
<v Speaker 2>be pre approved and flies straight to the USA, But

0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:01.240
<v Speaker 2>it's so delayed and it's just no an option for

0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:03.520
<v Speaker 2>people who barely have enough money for food, let learn

0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:04.960
<v Speaker 2>a plane ticket there.

0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:12.199
<v Speaker 8>HMV program is for cubanations, nick Garaguins, Venezuelans who have

0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:16.119
<v Speaker 8>not crossed into Panama or Mexico in the past few years.

0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.000
<v Speaker 8>You did not qualify who've done that or have not

0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:21.840
<v Speaker 8>been inter died at sea. If they're Haitian or Cuban,

0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:24.560
<v Speaker 8>you have to have a sponsor in the United States

0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.800
<v Speaker 8>who have some kind of legal status. You have to

0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:30.399
<v Speaker 8>be able to pay for the flight, you have to

0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:33.679
<v Speaker 8>have a passport, and you have to be able to

0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:37.080
<v Speaker 8>wait forever long it takes for your application to be approved.

0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:41.399
<v Speaker 8>And the Department of Homeland Security just announced that they

0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:44.879
<v Speaker 8>are not renewing parole for people who are already in

0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:48.440
<v Speaker 8>the United States. So people from those four countries who

0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:50.639
<v Speaker 8>were in the US head up to two years of

0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:53.880
<v Speaker 8>humanitarian parole which is not being renewed, so they either

0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:57.199
<v Speaker 8>would need to apply for something else or go back

0:19:57.240 --> 0:19:59.399
<v Speaker 8>to their country, or just I guess, stay in the

0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:19.160
<v Speaker 8>Saints undocumented until their CODs.

0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:28.240
<v Speaker 7>Boy.

0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:36.680
<v Speaker 2>I heard the same story hundreds of times that week,

0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:40.639
<v Speaker 2>sometimes off mike and sometimes on mike, sometimes holding my

0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:43.639
<v Speaker 2>voice recorder and notebook, sometimes just sitting on the ground

0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:46.439
<v Speaker 2>or walking on the trail or enjoying a bottle of

0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:51.040
<v Speaker 2>cold water in Bahjigito. Crippling poverty and bad governance in

0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:53.320
<v Speaker 2>their country made it difficult to see a future there.

0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:56.679
<v Speaker 2>They wanted better for their children, so they bought them

0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:58.800
<v Speaker 2>across the mountains and risked their lives in the jungle

0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:01.560
<v Speaker 2>to give them a chance in life life. I prepared

0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:03.720
<v Speaker 2>a lot for this trip, and I tried to search

0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:06.440
<v Speaker 2>for everything had my experience on the internet. But one

0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:08.200
<v Speaker 2>thing I really didn't expect to learn in the jungle

0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:10.480
<v Speaker 2>is just how much it's possible for parents to love

0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:14.200
<v Speaker 2>their kids. I watched exhausted mothers hoist their babies onto

0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:16.840
<v Speaker 2>their shoulders to keep walking and somehow come up with

0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:18.840
<v Speaker 2>a story that made the whole thing an adventure, not

0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.240
<v Speaker 2>a tragedy. Then did the same thing again the next day,

0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:26.359
<v Speaker 2>without sleeping or eating. I watch fathers carefully lay out

0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:28.919
<v Speaker 2>their sleeping map so their children could rest where they

0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:30.840
<v Speaker 2>tried to do the same on the dirt or hardwood

0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.040
<v Speaker 2>floors every day as their savings grew lower and they

0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:36.560
<v Speaker 2>outlook more bleak. I watched parents try to smile for

0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:40.119
<v Speaker 2>their kids. The sacrifices I saw them make, starving for

0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:42.520
<v Speaker 2>days to give their kids something to eat, or spending

0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:44.960
<v Speaker 2>their last remaining dollar on clean clothes for their kids

0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:48.480
<v Speaker 2>while they walked barefoot couldn't afford shoes really brought home

0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:50.520
<v Speaker 2>for me the desire these families had for a better

0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:52.879
<v Speaker 2>future and the sacrifices they were willing to make for

0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:56.720
<v Speaker 2>one another. A week later, it's still hard for me

0:21:56.760 --> 0:21:59.280
<v Speaker 2>to accept that I'm home safely and they're still in

0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:03.120
<v Speaker 2>as much danger, if not more.

0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:07.639
<v Speaker 10>Our walk lasted five days. Thank god I was always

0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:09.920
<v Speaker 10>strong enough and able to get back up when I fell,

0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:12.920
<v Speaker 10>because if I fell and my children had to see

0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:15.240
<v Speaker 10>me fall and not get up, imagine how bad that

0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:18.159
<v Speaker 10>would be. My children want more in the future, but

0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:21.639
<v Speaker 10>they despaired in the jungle. They said, tell me, mommy,

0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:24.440
<v Speaker 10>when are we going to get there? Mommy? What could

0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:27.520
<v Speaker 10>I say to them, my dear, we have to have patience,

0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:30.359
<v Speaker 10>because we have to make the crossing. We have to

0:22:30.400 --> 0:22:34.520
<v Speaker 10>move forward. If not, we can't get out of here.

0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:38.720
<v Speaker 2>Even among such difficult times, the Venezuelan's always greeted me

0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:41.120
<v Speaker 2>with a laugh and a smile, especially after a few

0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:43.720
<v Speaker 2>days of running into each other. When I used venezuhealen

0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:46.240
<v Speaker 2>slang or my accents slowly reverted to the Spanish I

0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:49.159
<v Speaker 2>learned in Karrakas only two decades ago, they'd laugh at me,

0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:52.640
<v Speaker 2>as they noted at that time Karakas had attracted plenty

0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:56.240
<v Speaker 2>of migrants. Recern some of them, like me, didn't stay,

0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:58.480
<v Speaker 2>but we came to We wanted to see a revolution

0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:02.160
<v Speaker 2>in the flesh, and they welcomed. For a while in Caracas,

0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:04.359
<v Speaker 2>I lived in a social center in La Pastora. I

0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:06.440
<v Speaker 2>didn't pay rent, but there was a small empty room

0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:08.680
<v Speaker 2>and no one seemed to mind. Every day I talked

0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:11.320
<v Speaker 2>to strangers, big friends, and try and learn something new.

0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:14.439
<v Speaker 2>The situation there was an ideal. For one thing, we

0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:17.040
<v Speaker 2>didn't really have showers, and also I got robbed at gunpoint.

0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:19.320
<v Speaker 2>So for most of my time in the country, I

0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:22.159
<v Speaker 2>stayed with the Chilean family i'd met. They welcomed me

0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:25.119
<v Speaker 2>a more a left total stranger into their homes and lives.

0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:28.560
<v Speaker 2>In the evenings, we spent hours talking and they'd tell

0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:31.560
<v Speaker 2>me stories about how they'd suffered under Pinochet, the hopes

0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:34.280
<v Speaker 2>they'd had for their country, and how they'd had to

0:23:34.320 --> 0:23:37.560
<v Speaker 2>flee to Caracas like tens of thousands of their fellow Chileans.

0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:40.919
<v Speaker 2>They introduced me to Victor Hara and Jolly Pan. I

0:23:40.960 --> 0:23:43.520
<v Speaker 2>introduced them to chumber Wamba, and we shared an affection

0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:46.320
<v Speaker 2>for George Orwell. The song you heard after the adverts

0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:48.800
<v Speaker 2>was not in fact chumber Wamba, but Chilean left his

0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:51.760
<v Speaker 2>folk musician in Victor Haa. He's playing Eldrecho de vi

0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:55.119
<v Speaker 2>Videnpaz the right to live in Peace in English, and

0:23:55.160 --> 0:23:57.679
<v Speaker 2>it's one of his most famous songs. It confronts the

0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:01.520
<v Speaker 2>US War in Vietnam. Later, after how I was tortured

0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:04.080
<v Speaker 2>and murdered by the Pinochet regime, it became an anthem

0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:07.440
<v Speaker 2>of protest in the country. Haarah and his friend pabul

0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:09.960
<v Speaker 2>and No Ruda were both symbols of the cultural power

0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:12.560
<v Speaker 2>of the Chilean people and the brutality of the Pinochet

0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:14.720
<v Speaker 2>regime who broke the hands he used to play his

0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:18.240
<v Speaker 2>guitar before they killed him. Haah and the Rudah both

0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:21.359
<v Speaker 2>moved in the same revolutionary artistic circles as my Chilean

0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:24.480
<v Speaker 2>host in Venezuela. At night, they tell me stories about

0:24:24.480 --> 0:24:26.920
<v Speaker 2>the time they spent together. We'd have to speak loudly

0:24:27.240 --> 0:24:28.680
<v Speaker 2>as a man who adopted me as a sort of

0:24:28.720 --> 0:24:31.560
<v Speaker 2>surrogate grandson and permanent hearing damage from the torture he'd

0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:35.000
<v Speaker 2>endured under the same regime. Luckily, he'd been able to

0:24:35.000 --> 0:24:37.840
<v Speaker 2>flee with his wife to Venezuela, where they were welcomed.

0:24:38.359 --> 0:24:40.600
<v Speaker 2>They never returned to Chile and happily lived out the

0:24:40.600 --> 0:24:42.800
<v Speaker 2>rest of their lives listening to their victor Haara records

0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:46.360
<v Speaker 2>in Caracas and living the ideals that had seen them persecuted.

0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Their kindness to me, a nineteen year old stranger with

0:24:50.080 --> 0:24:52.720
<v Speaker 2>terrible Spanish and nowhere to sleep at night, reflected the

0:24:52.800 --> 0:24:55.280
<v Speaker 2>kindness they'd received, and I've tried to reflect it in

0:24:55.280 --> 0:24:56.040
<v Speaker 2>turn ever since.

0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:01.119
<v Speaker 8>Oh no.

0:25:04.119 --> 0:25:12.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I never once heard any children crying and last

0:25:12.680 --> 0:25:16.240
<v Speaker 2>blankets or barjiquito. Well, none until the deportations took their

0:25:16.280 --> 0:25:18.560
<v Speaker 2>parents away on my last day there. Most of the

0:25:18.640 --> 0:25:22.480
<v Speaker 2>time the kids entertained themselves one day in Last Blancas,

0:25:22.520 --> 0:25:25.040
<v Speaker 2>where migrants can wait and spend weeks or months they

0:25:25.040 --> 0:25:27.080
<v Speaker 2>don't have the funds to move forward with their journey.

0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:29.760
<v Speaker 2>I left my picture while she made a call and

0:25:29.760 --> 0:25:32.000
<v Speaker 2>bumped in some little children playing a game where they

0:25:32.080 --> 0:25:34.480
<v Speaker 2>throw water bottle caps into half a breeze block from

0:25:34.520 --> 0:25:38.080
<v Speaker 2>various distances, each of them counting how many they could land.

0:25:39.280 --> 0:25:41.480
<v Speaker 2>I sat down next to them, put my recorder on

0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:43.800
<v Speaker 2>the ground and asked nicely if I could join it

0:25:54.720 --> 0:25:56.880
<v Speaker 2>like a tiny pit boss. One of the kids bought

0:25:56.880 --> 0:25:59.199
<v Speaker 2>me a pile of bottle tops. I chattered with them

0:25:59.200 --> 0:26:00.960
<v Speaker 2>as we threw a bottle cap to the broken piece

0:26:00.960 --> 0:26:03.600
<v Speaker 2>of concrete. What was it like in America?

0:26:03.720 --> 0:26:04.200
<v Speaker 1>They asked.

0:26:05.119 --> 0:26:07.639
<v Speaker 2>They's had a lot of questions about Africa, having probably

0:26:07.680 --> 0:26:10.400
<v Speaker 2>met African kids in the casita just across the way.

0:26:10.960 --> 0:26:13.760
<v Speaker 2>Do they have big buildings in Africa? Does it rain there?

0:26:14.320 --> 0:26:16.280
<v Speaker 2>How long does it take to get there in a bus?

0:26:16.800 --> 0:26:19.679
<v Speaker 2>Then they tested by venezuela and legitimacy by drawing me

0:26:19.720 --> 0:26:21.560
<v Speaker 2>in a ripper in my notebook, and I ask him

0:26:21.560 --> 0:26:24.080
<v Speaker 2>if I knew what it was? What I passed a test?

0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:26.720
<v Speaker 2>They asked me how to say some things in English,

0:26:26.800 --> 0:26:28.280
<v Speaker 2>and they showed me the toys they bought with them,

0:26:28.320 --> 0:26:31.000
<v Speaker 2>which were very few. One of them had a small

0:26:31.040 --> 0:26:41.320
<v Speaker 2>plastic cow of which he was very proud one. After

0:26:41.359 --> 0:26:43.600
<v Speaker 2>a while, they asked what I was doing, and I

0:26:43.600 --> 0:26:46.520
<v Speaker 2>showed them how I record interviews, at which point they

0:26:46.560 --> 0:26:49.359
<v Speaker 2>began recording themselves in each other, wildly stabbing at the

0:26:49.400 --> 0:26:51.639
<v Speaker 2>buttons on my recorder, which I will admit scared the

0:26:51.800 --> 0:26:54.520
<v Speaker 2>crap out of me, but I didn't have the heart

0:26:54.520 --> 0:26:57.400
<v Speaker 2>to take it off them. They stroked the fluffy wind

0:26:57.440 --> 0:26:59.760
<v Speaker 2>protector I use on my microphone. It told me it

0:26:59.800 --> 0:27:02.760
<v Speaker 2>was like a tiny teddy bear. Eventually I was able

0:27:02.800 --> 0:27:05.159
<v Speaker 2>to trade my recorder for several small wooden animals they

0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:07.600
<v Speaker 2>brought with me as gifts, which seemed to be a deal.

0:27:07.680 --> 0:27:09.560
<v Speaker 2>The left all of us feelings that we come out ahead.

0:27:10.320 --> 0:27:12.240
<v Speaker 2>They seemed to n't bothered by the suffering around them.

0:27:12.440 --> 0:27:15.520
<v Speaker 2>But Las Blancas is no place for children. They should

0:27:15.560 --> 0:27:18.159
<v Speaker 2>be in school, learning the English phrases they kept repeating

0:27:18.200 --> 0:27:20.720
<v Speaker 2>to me every time I saw them. But for a

0:27:20.760 --> 0:27:23.080
<v Speaker 2>chance to use their English, they first had to endure

0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:32.520
<v Speaker 2>a month more danger and deprivation. I gets son some

0:27:32.600 --> 0:27:36.000
<v Speaker 2>slightly hold. The children made the journey alone or almost alone.

0:27:36.680 --> 0:27:40.840
<v Speaker 2>They were accompanied by a spaniel called Chanel. I saw

0:27:40.880 --> 0:27:42.520
<v Speaker 2>a future while as people are carried with them through

0:27:42.520 --> 0:27:44.280
<v Speaker 2>the dry and gap. But to my analysis, is the

0:27:44.320 --> 0:27:52.680
<v Speaker 2>first spaniel that has made the treacherous Crossinguela.

0:27:52.680 --> 0:27:53.400
<v Speaker 11>Donzuela.

0:27:57.119 --> 0:27:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Like everyone else, they had terrible memories from the jungle.

0:28:02.760 --> 0:28:04.639
<v Speaker 12>The truth is you have to fight a lot to

0:28:04.640 --> 0:28:07.200
<v Speaker 12>be able to get out of there, because not everyone

0:28:07.240 --> 0:28:10.080
<v Speaker 12>gets out of that jungle, and it's even more difficult

0:28:10.160 --> 0:28:13.160
<v Speaker 12>with small children. There are times when one goes without

0:28:13.200 --> 0:28:17.280
<v Speaker 12>food and it's very stressful because all around us all

0:28:17.320 --> 0:28:20.040
<v Speaker 12>we saw was the jungle, and we never saw the

0:28:20.040 --> 0:28:23.800
<v Speaker 12>way out. But it is complicated. The truth is that

0:28:23.880 --> 0:28:27.560
<v Speaker 12>it is very hard the jungle. Well, I would really

0:28:27.600 --> 0:28:30.800
<v Speaker 12>recommend that people never go there. All our feet are hurting,

0:28:31.040 --> 0:28:34.199
<v Speaker 12>we can't walk properly. Our whole body is hurt. We

0:28:34.240 --> 0:28:35.520
<v Speaker 12>went days without eating.

0:28:36.680 --> 0:28:39.120
<v Speaker 2>They were traveling. They said to join their parents, and

0:28:39.160 --> 0:28:42.200
<v Speaker 2>because in Venezuela they told me they were always hungry.

0:28:42.760 --> 0:28:44.600
<v Speaker 2>They saw people sleeping on the streets and worry that

0:28:44.600 --> 0:28:46.440
<v Speaker 2>would be their only option. One day they didn't leave.

0:28:49.680 --> 0:28:51.680
<v Speaker 12>I want to see mom. I haven't seen her in

0:28:51.760 --> 0:28:54.560
<v Speaker 12>three years, and I want to have my American dream too.

0:28:56.080 --> 0:28:57.840
<v Speaker 13>I want to see my dad and my aunt and

0:28:57.880 --> 0:29:00.560
<v Speaker 13>my uncle. I haven't seen them for three years years either.

0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:03.720
<v Speaker 2>Despite the heart yet, they didn't blame their parents for leaving.

0:29:05.480 --> 0:29:07.880
<v Speaker 13>We know that we made it because of them. They're

0:29:07.920 --> 0:29:10.160
<v Speaker 13>the ones who sent us money for the things we need.

0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:12.440
<v Speaker 13>We were able to get a few things, not everything

0:29:12.480 --> 0:29:14.960
<v Speaker 13>we needed, but it's all thanks to them.

0:29:15.320 --> 0:29:17.080
<v Speaker 2>The end of their interview, as I always do, I

0:29:17.080 --> 0:29:20.200
<v Speaker 2>asked them if there's anything else that they wanted to share.

0:29:20.800 --> 0:29:22.880
<v Speaker 7>I don't know. For our parents, we love them a

0:29:22.880 --> 0:29:24.680
<v Speaker 7>lot and hope we can see them soon.

0:29:36.720 --> 0:29:39.280
<v Speaker 2>Like many of the Venezuelan's I spoke to, their American

0:29:39.400 --> 0:29:42.680
<v Speaker 2>dreams were pretty modest for most of them, though they'll

0:29:42.680 --> 0:29:45.760
<v Speaker 2>be unachievable in the current immigration system. They'll end up

0:29:45.760 --> 0:29:48.600
<v Speaker 2>stuck in Mexico, in Mexico City, perhaps for further south,

0:29:49.120 --> 0:29:52.360
<v Speaker 2>but in Tijuana or Juaro's waiting across the border. They're lucky.

0:29:53.160 --> 0:29:55.120
<v Speaker 2>But if they cried a cross between ports of entry

0:29:55.440 --> 0:29:58.400
<v Speaker 2>or get caught traveling without red string in Mexico, they

0:29:58.440 --> 0:30:02.360
<v Speaker 2>were being deported or relocated back to southern Mexico Hestica

0:30:02.360 --> 0:30:03.320
<v Speaker 2>explaining that process.

0:30:03.440 --> 0:30:07.840
<v Speaker 8>The Mexican National Guard has been detaining people who are

0:30:07.840 --> 0:30:10.240
<v Speaker 8>trying to cross the US medical border, and they had

0:30:10.280 --> 0:30:15.520
<v Speaker 8>been sending them south to Mexico City and Chiapas to Tapachula.

0:30:15.960 --> 0:30:20.479
<v Speaker 8>Now there's been this huge effort to stop people from waiting,

0:30:20.560 --> 0:30:22.880
<v Speaker 8>not only at the US Mexico border, but even in

0:30:22.960 --> 0:30:28.040
<v Speaker 8>Mexico City. So we're seeing Mexican Immigration and National Guard

0:30:28.200 --> 0:30:32.800
<v Speaker 8>doing sweeps of migrant camps, of apartment buildings, doesn't matter

0:30:32.840 --> 0:30:35.880
<v Speaker 8>if the person has a CBP one appointment. Sometimes they'll

0:30:35.920 --> 0:30:39.400
<v Speaker 8>just send them souths to either Chiapa's an increasing lead

0:30:39.440 --> 0:30:43.000
<v Speaker 8>to Basco so viet Moosa, which is where people are

0:30:43.080 --> 0:30:47.000
<v Speaker 8>arriving in Tabasco, has one shelter and I think the

0:30:47.040 --> 0:30:50.000
<v Speaker 8>capacity is around to two hundred fifty three hundred people,

0:30:50.800 --> 0:30:54.560
<v Speaker 8>and earlier this year they were sending twenty thousand migrants

0:30:54.560 --> 0:30:57.880
<v Speaker 8>a month there and then they posted the military steps

0:30:57.960 --> 0:31:01.080
<v Speaker 8>so that people can't leave, and it's very dangerous there.

0:31:01.080 --> 0:31:03.960
<v Speaker 8>It's a drug tracking area, so it's you know, not

0:31:04.000 --> 0:31:06.160
<v Speaker 8>only are people sleeping in the streets, but they're sleeping

0:31:06.440 --> 0:31:08.240
<v Speaker 8>on the streets of some of the most dangerous cities

0:31:08.240 --> 0:31:11.160
<v Speaker 8>and massacre win very few services there to help them

0:31:11.560 --> 0:31:12.600
<v Speaker 8>even get their next meal.

0:31:13.000 --> 0:31:15.120
<v Speaker 2>This, of course, didn't happen without the influence of the

0:31:15.200 --> 0:31:18.440
<v Speaker 2>United States. In many ways, Joe Biden has done exactly

0:31:18.520 --> 0:31:20.760
<v Speaker 2>what Donald Trump promised to do. Not only has he

0:31:20.760 --> 0:31:24.000
<v Speaker 2>built more wall, he's also forced Mexico to pay for

0:31:24.040 --> 0:31:27.080
<v Speaker 2>a significant amount of the US IS immigration enforcement. But

0:31:27.400 --> 0:31:29.800
<v Speaker 2>when people are sent back to south of Mexico, they'll

0:31:29.840 --> 0:31:32.080
<v Speaker 2>just make their way north again, only this time with

0:31:32.200 --> 0:31:35.840
<v Speaker 2>fewer resources and even greater risk. They're all proud of

0:31:35.840 --> 0:31:38.160
<v Speaker 2>where they're from. About half the groups I saw had

0:31:38.240 --> 0:31:41.520
<v Speaker 2>Venezuela flags and the cats or backpacks, but they're also

0:31:41.640 --> 0:31:43.800
<v Speaker 2>very aware of the betrayal they get as Venezuelan's and

0:31:43.800 --> 0:31:46.160
<v Speaker 2>the US media, and many of them made the very

0:31:46.200 --> 0:31:49.280
<v Speaker 2>valid point if American is afraid of Venezuela gangs, they

0:31:49.280 --> 0:31:51.040
<v Speaker 2>ought to consider how much more afraid people are in

0:31:51.040 --> 0:31:52.360
<v Speaker 2>a country where they actually exist.

0:31:52.720 --> 0:31:59.959
<v Speaker 1>Yes, we Incelana Parazon stands and female I'm thirteen.

0:32:00.680 --> 0:32:04.040
<v Speaker 7>Please don't believe that because one person from Venezuela does crime,

0:32:04.440 --> 0:32:06.080
<v Speaker 7>that all Venezuelans do crime.

0:32:06.840 --> 0:32:09.200
<v Speaker 2>But at least they get it portrayed in the US media.

0:32:09.560 --> 0:32:12.400
<v Speaker 2>Many African migrants don't even get that. Of course, that

0:32:12.680 --> 0:32:15.760
<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean they don't know about the USA. His powers

0:32:15.800 --> 0:32:19.280
<v Speaker 2>in her Anglophane Cameronian group again talking about their impressions

0:32:19.280 --> 0:32:22.080
<v Speaker 2>of America where they'd like to live when they arrive here.

0:32:22.640 --> 0:32:25.720
<v Speaker 11>You know, America is a very beautiful country, and America

0:32:25.800 --> 0:32:29.880
<v Speaker 11>has human rights. They care about the citizens. In fact,

0:32:29.960 --> 0:32:32.840
<v Speaker 11>they care about humanity. See, I don't want to have

0:32:32.920 --> 0:32:36.200
<v Speaker 11>a friend that I'm gonna stay with for the meantime.

0:32:36.320 --> 0:32:40.400
<v Speaker 2>Then it gets that's great, Yeah, that helps a lot. Yeah,

0:32:40.560 --> 0:32:42.080
<v Speaker 2>do you know which city your friend lives in?

0:32:42.640 --> 0:32:44.400
<v Speaker 11>She's in Maryland, Maryland.

0:32:44.400 --> 0:32:46.160
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, So.

0:32:46.280 --> 0:32:49.040
<v Speaker 11>If I'm asks, if you don't mind me asking, of course,

0:32:49.120 --> 0:32:53.760
<v Speaker 11>what Americans? How do they treat or how do they

0:32:53.760 --> 0:32:54.880
<v Speaker 11>say immigrants?

0:32:55.240 --> 0:32:58.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh, my friend, it's changing a lot. African migrants in

0:32:58.760 --> 0:33:01.720
<v Speaker 2>particular will struggle with their life of resources. The absence

0:33:01.760 --> 0:33:05.320
<v Speaker 2>of solidarity structures an obvious anti blackness along the journey.

0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:07.800
<v Speaker 2>Along with this, people they meet along the way simply

0:33:07.880 --> 0:33:11.200
<v Speaker 2>lack context of the journeys, why they're leaving, what they're fleeing.

0:33:11.680 --> 0:33:14.680
<v Speaker 2>Language barriers may exclude many of them from using CBP one,

0:33:14.880 --> 0:33:18.640
<v Speaker 2>which is only offered English Spanish and Haitian Creole. Less

0:33:18.600 --> 0:33:21.440
<v Speaker 2>than fifteen percent of asylum cases are conducted in English,

0:33:21.680 --> 0:33:24.040
<v Speaker 2>but the app ignores huge swass of the world outside

0:33:24.080 --> 0:33:27.920
<v Speaker 2>the Western Hemisphere and Bajiquito. I used French to speak

0:33:27.920 --> 0:33:31.000
<v Speaker 2>to migros you didn't speak English, and began to notice

0:33:31.040 --> 0:33:33.240
<v Speaker 2>the complete absence of signage. And I think other than

0:33:33.280 --> 0:33:37.040
<v Speaker 2>Spanish and sometimes English and Creole, this is likely an

0:33:37.080 --> 0:33:40.440
<v Speaker 2>issue throughout their long journeys. Here's one migrant from Angola,

0:33:40.720 --> 0:33:42.640
<v Speaker 2>and I should probably know at this point that Angolan

0:33:42.640 --> 0:33:45.480
<v Speaker 2>people tend to speak Portuguese, that's a national language, but

0:33:45.720 --> 0:33:47.400
<v Speaker 2>French with the language I shared with some of them,

0:33:47.440 --> 0:33:49.320
<v Speaker 2>as I don't speak Portuguese.

0:33:50.560 --> 0:33:51.240
<v Speaker 5>Pretty completely.

0:33:53.640 --> 0:33:57.520
<v Speaker 14>It was too much, very complicated. Like me, I did

0:33:57.560 --> 0:33:59.960
<v Speaker 14>a week in Brazil, out at Brazil and for Peru,

0:34:01.040 --> 0:34:04.960
<v Speaker 14>Peru to nicol Klee. Then here I did. We did

0:34:05.000 --> 0:34:08.800
<v Speaker 14>four days, four days walking. There are many mountains, many risks,

0:34:10.280 --> 0:34:12.360
<v Speaker 14>there are many animals along the route. You have to

0:34:12.360 --> 0:34:15.520
<v Speaker 14>follow the path for four days and there's no food.

0:34:16.640 --> 0:34:19.120
<v Speaker 14>But we are glad to arrive today. This is the

0:34:19.120 --> 0:34:23.160
<v Speaker 14>first group. There's the second, third, fourth, fifth group. They're

0:34:23.200 --> 0:34:26.160
<v Speaker 14>still on the road. I'm very proud of the fact

0:34:26.160 --> 0:34:28.640
<v Speaker 14>that we made it despite the suffering.

0:34:28.920 --> 0:34:29.879
<v Speaker 3>But God was with us.

0:34:30.160 --> 0:34:31.280
<v Speaker 14>That is what is important.

0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:35.680
<v Speaker 2>There are numerous instances of French speaking migrants trying to

0:34:35.719 --> 0:34:38.120
<v Speaker 2>approach the border near me in Santy Cedra and being

0:34:38.160 --> 0:34:40.560
<v Speaker 2>turned away for not having an appointment on that it's

0:34:40.600 --> 0:34:43.600
<v Speaker 2>not available in a language they can understand. These language

0:34:43.600 --> 0:34:46.279
<v Speaker 2>barriers might stop the migrants getting information, but they don't

0:34:46.280 --> 0:34:49.640
<v Speaker 2>stop them helping one another. His powers group describing the

0:34:49.680 --> 0:34:53.360
<v Speaker 2>isolation they felt, but also the kindness they experienced. Do

0:34:53.400 --> 0:34:57.120
<v Speaker 2>you think people on the trip treat African people differently?

0:34:57.560 --> 0:35:05.319
<v Speaker 11>Yes, they're living communicated, They're just by themselves. They don't associate.

0:35:05.400 --> 0:35:06.640
<v Speaker 11>They look at all differently.

0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:09.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:35:09.680 --> 0:35:12.160
<v Speaker 5>I had someone who support their tea.

0:35:12.760 --> 0:35:13.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, I saw.

0:35:14.800 --> 0:35:16.160
<v Speaker 11>I saw how kind the.

0:35:16.200 --> 0:35:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Person was because of their obvious foreignness and perceived an

0:35:20.000 --> 0:35:23.600
<v Speaker 2>ability to communicate. African migrants are often targeted for crime

0:35:23.640 --> 0:35:27.200
<v Speaker 2>in Mexico. Since leaving Panama, I've heard from migrants who

0:35:27.200 --> 0:35:31.160
<v Speaker 2>are raped, kidnapped, ransomed, and I even heard about one

0:35:31.160 --> 0:35:34.640
<v Speaker 2>who was killed. Because of their difficulties accessing this CVP

0:35:34.760 --> 0:35:38.160
<v Speaker 2>one app many face longer waits in Mexico, which may

0:35:38.160 --> 0:35:40.880
<v Speaker 2>in turn leave them open to extortion or see them

0:35:40.920 --> 0:35:44.120
<v Speaker 2>decide to cross the border between ports of entry. I've

0:35:44.160 --> 0:35:48.000
<v Speaker 2>met hundreds of migrants, mainly Mauritanians and Geneians, who have

0:35:48.080 --> 0:35:51.359
<v Speaker 2>made this difficult choice since Biden's Asylent Bank came into force.

0:35:52.239 --> 0:35:54.800
<v Speaker 2>Due to the distance, African migrants also face a longer,

0:35:54.840 --> 0:35:58.440
<v Speaker 2>more expensive, and more dangerous journey. His premier from Zimbabwe,

0:35:58.880 --> 0:36:02.879
<v Speaker 2>describing her journey to get to bat the situation for.

0:36:02.960 --> 0:36:06.839
<v Speaker 1>Me it was tough. I just ran away to South

0:36:06.840 --> 0:36:13.640
<v Speaker 1>Africa and South Africa was not safe. Solophobia and they

0:36:13.760 --> 0:36:20.279
<v Speaker 1>almost kill me and my boyfriend and even my my

0:36:20.360 --> 0:36:26.279
<v Speaker 1>big father was abusive, too much aposive because of the politics,

0:36:28.440 --> 0:36:34.600
<v Speaker 1>opposition party. So it was now even in South Africa,

0:36:35.080 --> 0:36:37.800
<v Speaker 1>I was not safe at all. It was those people.

0:36:37.880 --> 0:36:41.319
<v Speaker 1>They were like following me and my daughter. For I

0:36:41.360 --> 0:36:44.239
<v Speaker 1>spent three months on the road coming here. I leave

0:36:44.360 --> 0:36:48.640
<v Speaker 1>South Africa, I think fourth of July till now I'm

0:36:48.680 --> 0:36:52.200
<v Speaker 1>in Panama. I'm still working using basses.

0:36:53.160 --> 0:36:56.840
<v Speaker 2>Jesus, how did you get away from Africa to America?

0:36:56.960 --> 0:36:58.200
<v Speaker 8>Did you fly or take a boat?

0:36:59.040 --> 0:37:03.640
<v Speaker 1>The thing is I fly from Juannespec to Brazil. Then

0:37:03.719 --> 0:37:07.839
<v Speaker 1>I seek Asylam in Brazil. Then I wanted to stay

0:37:07.840 --> 0:37:13.160
<v Speaker 1>in Brazil, so people said, no, you in Brazil, you

0:37:13.280 --> 0:37:18.000
<v Speaker 1>can't because of language. Yeah, yeah, Portuguese. So I start

0:37:18.120 --> 0:37:21.160
<v Speaker 1>also using people's roots, like you list take this pass

0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:24.000
<v Speaker 1>from point A to point base. So we take a

0:37:24.000 --> 0:37:28.960
<v Speaker 1>bus from Brazil to Bolivia, then from Bolivia to Peru, Peru,

0:37:29.600 --> 0:37:32.680
<v Speaker 1>toad equad to Colombia. Then you start working with using

0:37:32.760 --> 0:37:35.360
<v Speaker 1>Darwin Cape too. I'm here in Panama.

0:37:35.680 --> 0:37:38.720
<v Speaker 2>African migrants will end up in different shelters, little more remote,

0:37:38.960 --> 0:37:42.640
<v Speaker 2>will have less connectivity, again, making their asylum process harder.

0:37:43.640 --> 0:37:46.239
<v Speaker 2>Unlike migrants from the Western Hemisphere, they might struggle to

0:37:46.239 --> 0:37:50.759
<v Speaker 2>find solidarity networks even inside the USA without a significant diaspora.

0:37:50.880 --> 0:37:52.960
<v Speaker 2>Many of the migrants I met the jungle have struggled

0:37:52.960 --> 0:37:55.759
<v Speaker 2>to find sponsors. Los of the people I spoke to here,

0:37:56.120 --> 0:37:59.240
<v Speaker 2>including Primrose and her daughter, are still looking for someone

0:37:59.280 --> 0:38:01.040
<v Speaker 2>to give them a help hand as they start their

0:38:01.080 --> 0:38:03.600
<v Speaker 2>new life. We spoke a lot over the week I

0:38:03.760 --> 0:38:07.759
<v Speaker 2>is there, and we've spoken most days since. It's heartbreaking

0:38:07.800 --> 0:38:09.719
<v Speaker 2>for me to see her daughter going for months with

0:38:09.760 --> 0:38:12.560
<v Speaker 2>our education or even a safe place to sleep. I've

0:38:12.560 --> 0:38:15.440
<v Speaker 2>seen photos in them sleeping on the street. They've ridden

0:38:15.440 --> 0:38:18.759
<v Speaker 2>crowded busses north, and I've heard their frustrated attempts to

0:38:18.800 --> 0:38:21.480
<v Speaker 2>comply with the arcane and complicated restrictions on their right

0:38:21.560 --> 0:38:24.520
<v Speaker 2>to come here and ask for help. And it's been

0:38:24.520 --> 0:38:26.560
<v Speaker 2>really hard since I got home to reconcile this with

0:38:26.600 --> 0:38:28.880
<v Speaker 2>a national discussion that seems to see migration as a

0:38:28.960 --> 0:38:31.760
<v Speaker 2>number that we have to decrease a migrants to something

0:38:31.760 --> 0:38:33.440
<v Speaker 2>other than people who want to come here for all

0:38:33.440 --> 0:38:36.840
<v Speaker 2>the same reasons. I live happily and peaceably as our neighbors.

0:38:38.280 --> 0:38:40.680
<v Speaker 2>Now that they've come this far, magants from outside the

0:38:40.719 --> 0:38:43.560
<v Speaker 2>Western Hemisphere have to keep going. They cannot even file

0:38:43.640 --> 0:38:46.440
<v Speaker 2>their claims on CBP one until they make it to Tapatula,

0:38:46.880 --> 0:38:50.200
<v Speaker 2>which is hundreds of dollars and thousands of kilometers from Panama.

0:38:50.840 --> 0:38:52.640
<v Speaker 2>They'd likely don't have the funds to go back home

0:38:52.680 --> 0:38:55.279
<v Speaker 2>even if they want to, and they're far more likely

0:38:55.320 --> 0:38:58.440
<v Speaker 2>to be robbed or kidnapped along the way. However, their

0:38:58.480 --> 0:39:01.360
<v Speaker 2>story is often aren't told. Reporting on the board is

0:39:01.400 --> 0:39:04.480
<v Speaker 2>still largely focused on Spanish speaking migrants, with some space

0:39:04.520 --> 0:39:07.520
<v Speaker 2>of Chinese O Haitians. The migrants from Africa rarely get

0:39:07.560 --> 0:39:10.680
<v Speaker 2>much care or attention in the media. In part this

0:39:10.719 --> 0:39:14.040
<v Speaker 2>has helped them before the demonization the Venezuelan migrants'rel too

0:39:14.040 --> 0:39:16.960
<v Speaker 2>aware of, but in part it also leads to a

0:39:17.040 --> 0:39:20.080
<v Speaker 2>lack of concern for their needs. I went to end

0:39:20.080 --> 0:39:29.160
<v Speaker 2>today with Gabriel from Equatorial Guinea sharing his message for Americans. Aha.

0:39:29.640 --> 0:39:34.720
<v Speaker 15>Know, yeah, a lot of people get this confused. Africa

0:39:34.800 --> 0:39:38.719
<v Speaker 15>is not a country. A lot of them think when

0:39:39.080 --> 0:39:42.040
<v Speaker 15>they see you and you're black person, they say, are

0:39:42.040 --> 0:39:46.120
<v Speaker 15>you African? And it's like, there are lots of countries

0:39:46.120 --> 0:39:52.000
<v Speaker 15>in Africa. Khana, Nigeria, you got, Guinea, you got the

0:39:52.080 --> 0:39:55.799
<v Speaker 15>more Aitanian people. There are loads of countries. I wish

0:39:55.800 --> 0:39:58.879
<v Speaker 15>people would know. How do I say this? I wish

0:39:58.960 --> 0:40:02.560
<v Speaker 15>they'd take us into a out because really they don't

0:40:02.560 --> 0:40:06.640
<v Speaker 15>consider us when they say Africa is a country. They

0:40:06.680 --> 0:40:08.920
<v Speaker 15>don't care about us the way we care about them.

0:40:09.239 --> 0:40:12.400
<v Speaker 15>And this is the way of seeing things which doesn't

0:40:12.440 --> 0:40:16.120
<v Speaker 15>consider us as human, not the same as them. You understand,

0:40:16.560 --> 0:40:20.000
<v Speaker 15>they see us as Africans or animals, something like that.

0:40:24.640 --> 0:40:25.239
<v Speaker 12>It could happen.

0:40:25.280 --> 0:40:27.120
<v Speaker 7>Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

0:40:27.320 --> 0:40:30.400
<v Speaker 12>For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

0:40:30.480 --> 0:40:34.040
<v Speaker 12>coolzonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio, app,

0:40:34.120 --> 0:40:37.680
<v Speaker 12>Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can

0:40:37.719 --> 0:40:40.040
<v Speaker 12>now find sources for it could happen here, listed directly

0:40:40.080 --> 0:40:42.360
<v Speaker 12>in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.