1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: All media. 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 2: It's me James, and before we listen to this episode today, 3 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 2: I just did want to make you a way that 4 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 2: I conducted these interviews in French and Spanish, mostly Spanish, 5 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 2: and then transcribed and translated them. So what you're hearing 6 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 2: is a translated interview that's being edited for brevity and content. 7 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed the episode, s l P G awesome. 8 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, the journey is dangerous, but what can we do. 9 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 3: We can't stay in a country where the economy is 10 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 3: getting worse and worse. With a salary of three dollars 11 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 3: a month, you can't survive. Like my friend said, if 12 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,599 Speaker 3: you have a job in other countries, maybe you can 13 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 3: invest some money. But where are you going to get 14 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 3: the money to invest If before you had a salary 15 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 3: that fed you paid for your car, your house and 16 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 3: your children to enjoy it all with, and now you 17 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 3: can't even afford to put gas in the car. So 18 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 3: it's true. Yeah, the darien is dangerous, but nothing is impossible. 19 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 3: We walk hand in hand with God and with the 20 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 3: faith that we will get there. But that doesn't mean 21 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 3: it isn't difficult. But I'll say it again, it's not impossible. 22 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 3: You suffer, you cry, you go hungry cold, but thank 23 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 3: God we made it through. 24 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: Bored around the Touquesa River, the jungle rumbles quiet as 25 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 2: you pass by on your boat. Insects, frogs, and birds 26 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 2: all combined to make a sort of deep throbbing that 27 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 2: emanates from the darkness between the trees. It seems at 28 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 2: wants to be calling you in and warning you to 29 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 2: stay away. I've been in the jungle before, in the 30 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: Rwanda Congo borderlands and in Venezuela, but I've never really 31 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 2: felt the sense of foreboding I did as we rode 32 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 2: down the river, protected only by our hollow log, looking 33 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 2: into the triple canopy forest, and knowing that if I 34 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 2: walk long enough in the shadows, I'd be confronted the 35 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 2: remains of people I might have interviewed if it hadn't 36 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: been for a rolld ankle, a slippery rock, or a 37 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 2: desperate sip of water. To understand what drives people to 38 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 2: enter the jungle with their children and their dreams, I 39 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 2: think we also have to understand what drives them to 40 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: leave where they're living. And that's what I want to 41 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 2: talk about today, the story of migrants crossing the daddy 42 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 2: and gap is an American one. It's impossible to disentangle 43 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: the people making this dangerous journey from the history of 44 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 2: support for dictatorship, sanctions, and imperial plunder that ties to the 45 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: United States to its American brothers and sisters in the South. 46 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: Sometimes I play a game with myself at the border 47 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 2: where I try and meet people from all the countries 48 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 2: named in Washington bullets in a single day. Since Biden 49 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 2: bungled the Afghanistan withdraw, it's become a lot easier, but 50 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 2: Tibet can be hard. For two hundred years, since President 51 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 2: Monroe gave his State of the Union address in December 52 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 2: eighteen twenty three, the US has seen the Western hemisphere 53 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 2: is its sphere of influence. While its opposed old fashioned colonialism, 54 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 2: it has used less avert methods of control as well 55 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 2: as overt military across the hemisphere. For much of the 56 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 2: last century, it supported and installed dictators who would prevent 57 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 2: what it saw as a threat of state socialism in 58 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: its sphere of influence, and allowed them to create economic 59 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 2: and political climates that were unsurvivable for the majority and 60 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 2: extremely profitable for US based corporations. The direct result of 61 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 2: this policy has been economic insecurity, political instability, and state 62 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 2: violence across South and Central America, resulting in people making 63 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 2: the very natural humor decision to flee to somewhere safer. 64 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 2: As in so many other empires, they've made the choice 65 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: to lead a destabilized colonial periphery and seek safety instability 66 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 2: in the metropol. For more than a century, money and 67 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 2: good have been able to travel seamlessly up and down 68 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 2: the continent, but people have not. The bananaread for breakfast 69 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: this morning made the journey in a few days, but 70 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 2: people take months, if not years, pay thousands of dollars, 71 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 2: climb mountains, forded rivers, and risk their lives on trains 72 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 2: and buses that cost a lot more than the flights 73 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 2: I took to Panama, but offer considerably less comfort and safety. 74 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: As climate change has have greater impacts, more and more 75 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 2: people are forced to leave their homes as their livelihoods 76 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 2: become less sustainable. The Guna, the indigenous people of the 77 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 2: Panamanian coast in an area called Guna Yala, are having 78 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 2: to withdraw from some of their islands because of sea 79 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 2: level rise. Right now, agriculture across the world is increasingly 80 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,119 Speaker 2: threatened by extreme weather and rising temperatures, and our oceans 81 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: are less they're able to sustain life than they once 82 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 2: were due to pollution and overfishing. Forced to leave their 83 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 2: homes as people have been for millennia by weather patterns changing, 84 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 2: people head to places that have once caused much of 85 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 2: the issue and tried to insulate themselves from its consequences. 86 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 2: Their American dreams are modest. To overcome the crippling low 87 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 2: pay they received, a home, to bring their children up 88 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 2: in a place where they have a good chance of 89 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 2: surviving their twenties, to work and get paid enough to 90 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 2: get by. They want to be able to protest and 91 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 2: not get shot, and to look forward to the future 92 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 2: not feared. These aren't guaranteed in the USA, and as 93 00:04:58,400 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 2: many of you listening will know, it can be hard 94 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 2: for us to make ends meet here as well. But 95 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 2: despite what you see on social and legacy media, things 96 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 2: are unlikely to become as bad here as they are 97 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 2: in Venezuela, Cameroon or Iran anytime soon. I've lived in Venezuela, 98 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 2: specifically in the formerly jab eastern neighborhood of La Pastora 99 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 2: in Caracas, and I've seen how hard it is for 100 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 2: my friends who still live there. Even for people with 101 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 2: no other disadvantages, making rent and feeding your family can 102 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: be a challenge. That's part of why Venezuelan people make 103 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 2: up the majority of the folks I met me Dadian, 104 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: so much so that I'd slipped back into using Venezuelan 105 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 2: slang in Spanish, and after a few days of seeing 106 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 2: the same people engaging in the kind of friendly mockery 107 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 2: and banter that I remember well from Caracas, mostly the 108 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 2: super form of asking them why they crossed a Daddian 109 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 2: gap in Man United shirts or worse yet, in a 110 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 2: Chelsea shit. It's important to steal moments of humor in 111 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: these difficult times, to laugh a little among all the suffering, 112 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: and that's something people in Venezuela have done very well 113 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 2: for a very long time. But despite their humor, I 114 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 2: could tell the journey had a serious impact on the 115 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 2: people I spoke to. 116 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 4: You have to go through a lot, a lot of jungle, 117 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 4: a lot of hills. There are people, there are dead 118 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 4: people on the road, So it's it's something you cannot 119 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 4: really explain. It's complicated because everything can be explained in 120 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 4: a fashion, but it's it's not the same as living it. 121 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 4: It's insanity, three four days with that food and nothing. 122 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 4: One thing is to live it. Explaining it, talking about it, 123 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 4: that's different. It's hard to put into words. 124 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 2: This interview is when I conducted with one group of 125 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,679 Speaker 2: Venezuelan migrants with my voice recorder in the chest pocket 126 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 2: of my shirt and whatever bags it let me carry 127 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 2: in my hands. We walked along the last part of 128 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 2: the trail, discussing what they'd seen. For a while, we 129 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 2: joked a little. One guy had crossed it a man 130 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 2: united ship. I talked him about the team and the 131 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: universe was dislike non Menu fans have for Menu fans. 132 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 2: Then after a while they opened up more about their experiences. 133 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 2: They had, they said, seen their bodies and they couldn't 134 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 2: stop thinking about what happened if they'd fallen, and they 135 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 2: wanted to know how, when or if the dead people's 136 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 2: family would ever find out. 137 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 5: The family waits for that person to come out to 138 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 5: hear that they made it, because if not, who's going 139 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 5: to let you know? There's no signal and nobody's going 140 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:17,559 Speaker 5: to grab the body, and you're not going to carry 141 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 5: them out. The person stays there and eventually, years and 142 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 5: years go by and the family won't know where they 143 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 5: are or how they died. Those are the sort of 144 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 5: things that one doesn't expect to see, and it makes 145 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 5: you just want to hurry past. Not that you wouldn't 146 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 5: want to get the documentation from the body and deliver 147 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 5: it and tell them how this person had passed away, 148 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 5: But how dare you just go grabbing a dead body. 149 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 2: Vernetuinan elections were held on the twenty eighth of July 150 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: this year. Venezueynan presidents have a six year term and 151 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 2: the incumbent to colas Ma Duro, has been in office 152 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 2: since twenty thirty. I let the Venezuelan people and that 153 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 2: introduce themselves and explain the result of the election. Now 154 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: there's a bit of background noise here, but that's because 155 00:07:55,840 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 2: we were walking on the trails and it's hard to avoid. 156 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 3: I am coming from Venezuela, migrating through the jungle for 157 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 3: a better future for me and my children. I'll tell 158 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 3: you it's hard, but it's not impossible. No, that was 159 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 3: electoral fraud. And I tell you what, one day, you 160 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 3: just have to leave. 161 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: Maduro was opposed by A Juardo Gonzalez, an opposite candidate 162 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 2: who represented a wide coalition increating groups on the left 163 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 2: and right. One Maduro might have support among Western socialists 164 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 2: and even communists. The actual Venezuelan Communist Party's youth organization 165 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: formed part of the Popular Democratic Front that opposed him. 166 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 2: Despite Paul Watchers tallying a massive victory for the opposition, 167 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 2: Maduro controls the National Election Council and proclaimed himself the victor. 168 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: People protested, and Maduro responded with bullets. Gonzales fled to 169 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: the Dutch and then the Spanish embassy and later claimed 170 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: asylum in Spain, where his family lived. But for regular 171 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,079 Speaker 2: working class Venezuelan's there's no option to hop on a 172 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: flight to safety. Instead, they have to be getting the 173 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 2: long walk north. As many Venezuelans respect you told me. 174 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 2: In addition to the electoral fraud, Venezuela is undergoing an 175 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 2: economic collapse, at least as the Chavis they said, most 176 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 2: people could eat. When I lived in La Pastora, I 177 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: was able to access medical care from Cuban doctors. Now 178 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 2: they say things have become a survivaldo so Venezuela. 179 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 6: When Venezuela well, I would say that Venezuela, you know, yeah, 180 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 6: you can live, but not on a minimum wage. 181 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 4: I would say that, for example, working independently in an 182 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 4: independent business, maybe you can live good. But working and 183 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 4: surviving for a minimum wage now, the truth is that 184 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 4: it doesn't work, and that's serious. Things are still bad 185 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 4: with the new elections and the new government. Everything is ugly. 186 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. 187 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 4: The streets of Caracas are full of protests. Every day. 188 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 4: People went out to protest. Sometimes they shoot people. The 189 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 4: government mistreats people. But if you can live with it, 190 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 4: and you can live with it it's ugly. Well, that 191 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 4: is why we left there for a better future, and 192 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,079 Speaker 4: we will keep moving onward onward. 193 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 2: This group were young men traveling in advance with their families, 194 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 2: hoping to earn some money, save it up, and send 195 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 2: it home. They knew what they were getting into when 196 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 2: they got to the USA, that migrants were often underpaid 197 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 2: and might struggle to make ends meet, but they still 198 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 2: thought it was better than staying home and watching your 199 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 2: children's future disappear. 200 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 5: If you don't have papers, you don't have a work permit, 201 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 5: you have to work for it. They want to pay you, 202 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 5: not for what you demand or anything. 203 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 2: I met lots of Venezuela families with children who had 204 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 2: different illnesses or disabilities, things they couldn't obtain or afford 205 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 2: treatment for in Venezuela. They were traveling to the US 206 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 2: in the hopes of finding a better future for their kids, 207 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,319 Speaker 2: or any future at all. I met young men who 208 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 2: left their children behind but carried the children of strangers, 209 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 2: even those with whom they didn't share a language. Christian, 210 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 2: who he heard from earlier, showed me how he'd carried 211 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 2: someone else's child on his shoulders until he fell and 212 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 2: hurt his knee. We all help. 213 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 4: I put little children up here on my shoulders to 214 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:20,839 Speaker 4: carry them, but it isn't easy. 215 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 2: In the jungle, they'd formed chains using their arms to 216 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 2: cross rivers and carried little children on those who couldn't swim. 217 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 2: In Barji Guito, I saw a group of men from 218 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 2: Angola receiving hugs from Venezuela and women they'd helped in 219 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 2: the jungle. Without the help of the Angolans, they said 220 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 2: their children wouldn't have made it. One slip or a 221 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 2: loss of grip, they told me, would be fatal, and 222 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 2: the remains of those who had done just that served 223 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 2: as a grisly reminder. Later, little boys, maybe eight or 224 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 2: ten years old, gleefully recounted seeing a dead body on 225 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 2: which the head had quote exploded while their parents winked 226 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 2: in recollection. I wanted to understand a bit more of 227 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 2: what they were fleeing. That made it worth going through 228 00:11:58,800 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 2: all this. 229 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 6: Venezuela. 230 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 7: Well, I left Venezuela because I worked in fishing. But 231 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 7: right now, in Venezuela, despite the fact that it is 232 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 7: a country rich and oil, there's not enough gasoline for 233 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 7: the fishermen to go fishing. And since I did not 234 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 7: have the ability to even buy basic things such as food, 235 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 7: the situation was, well, it was a little complicated. I 236 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 7: had to immigrate. I had nothing else to do. They 237 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 7: didn't rob me, well, they were going to rob me 238 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 7: because I didn't have anything to steal. We passed by 239 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 7: and the group that was behind us got robbed. They 240 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 7: raped women in that group. 241 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 2: Almost every Venezuelan Migro and I spent to share a 242 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 2: similar story. One said he didn't store security cameras, but 243 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 2: nobody could afford them now, as it had to choose 244 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 2: between rent and groceries or medical procedures that they needed 245 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 2: but couldn't afford. Overwhelmingly, they said the same thing no aifuturo, 246 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 2: there's no future. One group said to me that they 247 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 2: couldn't wait for their country to become like Cuba, as 248 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 2: decades of embargos took their toll on the population. But 249 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 2: others reminded me in them that least of Cubans seem 250 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 2: to have doctors. Venezuela has an eighty percent poverty right now, 251 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 2: and though it sits on one of the largest oil 252 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 2: reserves of any country on Earth, it's been plagued by 253 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,719 Speaker 2: planting oil prices in the years of hyperinflation, which got 254 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 2: so bad at one point the shots stopped putting price 255 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: tags on things and relied on staff to give up 256 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 2: to the minute prices. Today, alongside a regime that lacks legitimacy, 257 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 2: a state that readily uses horrific violence against his people, 258 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 2: an election that was essentially ignored, Venezuelan's must also deal 259 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 2: with shortages of basic goods, poverty, and malnutrition. Unlike Cubans 260 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 2: who have a relatively good political lobby in the USA, 261 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 2: Venezuelan's coming to the USA do not benefit from special laws. 262 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 2: Cubans under the Cuban Adjustment Act have a part of 263 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 2: the citizenship and permanence once they set foot on US soil. 264 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 2: Venezuelans do not. They're covered by something called a temporary 265 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 2: protected status, but this does not afford them much in 266 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 2: the way of stability, protection, or a secure future. His 267 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 2: Erecha Pinhidro of Alotolado and Incredible Organizations does valuable work 268 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 2: with migrant legal aid advocacy and humanitarian relief, explaining just 269 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 2: how temporary a TPS is. 270 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 8: So temporary protected status is it's basically a form of 271 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 8: protecting individuals who are already in the United States when 272 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 8: their countries have experienced a natural disaster, if they are 273 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 8: in war, there's some kind of situation going on that 274 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 8: makes it difficult for them to return, and so temporary 275 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 8: protected status was first created in nineteen ninety and the 276 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 8: first individuals who receive the status were from El Salvador, 277 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 8: and since then, I think there's been a few dozen 278 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 8: countries that have been designated. But basically the way it 279 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 8: works is they designate a country and so if you 280 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 8: were in the United States before that designation date, you 281 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 8: can apply for temporary protected status within a designated time 282 00:14:55,560 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 8: period and you get a work permit. It's valid for six, 283 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 8: twelve or eighteen months and then two months before it expires, 284 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 8: the Secretary of the Department of holand Security has to 285 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 8: say whether or not they're going to reauthorize GPS. So 286 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 8: there's like eight hundred and sixty thousand people in the 287 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 8: US who have temporary protected status and it's not a 288 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 8: pathtis citizenship. So basically people are just in limbo sometimes 289 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 8: for decades, you know. They just have to reapply for 290 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 8: this permit every eighteen months. So I have quite a 291 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 8: few salvador and friends who've been in the United States 292 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 8: since the nineties. They have kids, some of them a 293 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 8: cuarrent kids or a US citizen, and they can't become 294 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 8: permanent residents or have a paths the citizenship unless they 295 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 8: leave the country and either come back with another type 296 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 8: of parole or you know, apply through a consulate, which 297 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 8: many of them are just not willing to take that risk. 298 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 2: Well, makes things even more complicated for the Venezuelans, is it. 299 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 2: Many of them are traveling with that document. It costs 300 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 2: three hundred bucks to get a passport, they told me, 301 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 2: and the weight's considerable. This makes their journeys even harder 302 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 2: as every country the enter has to approve them to 303 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 2: without a passport getting a visa, they said, would be 304 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 2: nearly impossible, and just trying might result in the government 305 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 2: coming after them. Such things, they said, are reserved for 306 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 2: the wealthier citizens. People like Gonzales, who's asylum claim and 307 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 2: stays at the Dutch and Spanish embassies and his right 308 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 2: to join his family in exile are all luxuries that 309 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 2: most of his country people can't expect. Its dead. Most 310 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 2: Venezuelans must ride buses through Columbia, then walk north through 311 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 2: the jungle, then ride buses stir away on trains, or 312 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 2: walk again all the way to the border. They all 313 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 2: lamented to dai and crossing, and so they wouldn't advise 314 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 2: it without other options. 315 00:16:44,720 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 9: They all made it anyway, community see, because unfortunately we 316 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 9: don't have much in our country. 317 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 5: You don't have another option when you're dying of hunger 318 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 5: and you don't have a future, you can't even study. 319 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 5: So yeah, it's worth it. 320 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 2: The economic situation is dire in Venezuela. Many families can't 321 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 2: make ends me their currency is almost worth US, and 322 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 2: the majority government seems to have successfully installed itself for 323 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 2: the fueseeable future. This will mean a continuation of embargos 324 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 2: is sanctions, which will harm the people more than the regime. Sadly, though, 325 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,199 Speaker 2: economic hot kIPS is not a criteria which won't be 326 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 2: grounded asylum in the USA his Erica. 327 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 8: Again, so severe economic deprivation can be persecution if it's 328 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 8: linked to one of the other projected grounds, so race, religion, nationality, 329 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 8: political opinion, or membership, but in a particular social group. 330 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 8: So for example, if someone participated in anti Moduro political 331 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 8: activity and then we're blocked from getting a job or 332 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 8: just denied economic opports to the point where they're starving, 333 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 8: the economic deprivation could count as persecution, but it's a 334 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 8: very difficult case to make in the United States. In Mexico, 335 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 8: you can get protection based on generalized conditions in your country, 336 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 8: and so you know, Venezuelans betweeing economic collapse or even 337 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 8: Central Americans fleeing extreme violence have a much easier time 338 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 8: dating protection in Mexico than they would in the United 339 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,360 Speaker 8: States because of that kind of extra category of protection 340 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 8: in Mexico. The issue with Mexico is just the very 341 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 8: limited capacity of this islum system overall, and the very 342 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 8: dangerous conditions in which people are forced to wait while 343 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 8: their cases are judicated. 344 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 2: Going forward from the Dadian, they'll face an enormously difficult journey. 345 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 2: The US does have a program for Cubans, venezuelan Ands, 346 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 2: Haitians and Nicaraguans, then in theory allows them to apply, 347 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: be pre approved and flies straight to the USA, But 348 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 2: it's so delayed and it's just no an option for 349 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 2: people who barely have enough money for food, let learn 350 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 2: a plane ticket there. 351 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:12,199 Speaker 8: HMV program is for cubanations, nick Garaguins, Venezuelans who have 352 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 8: not crossed into Panama or Mexico in the past few years. 353 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 8: You did not qualify who've done that or have not 354 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 8: been inter died at sea. If they're Haitian or Cuban, 355 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 8: you have to have a sponsor in the United States 356 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 8: who have some kind of legal status. You have to 357 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 8: be able to pay for the flight, you have to 358 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 8: have a passport, and you have to be able to 359 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 8: wait forever long it takes for your application to be approved. 360 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 8: And the Department of Homeland Security just announced that they 361 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 8: are not renewing parole for people who are already in 362 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 8: the United States. So people from those four countries who 363 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 8: were in the US head up to two years of 364 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 8: humanitarian parole which is not being renewed, so they either 365 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 8: would need to apply for something else or go back 366 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 8: to their country, or just I guess, stay in the 367 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 8: Saints undocumented until their CODs. 368 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 7: Boy. 369 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 2: I heard the same story hundreds of times that week, 370 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 2: sometimes off mike and sometimes on mike, sometimes holding my 371 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 2: voice recorder and notebook, sometimes just sitting on the ground 372 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 2: or walking on the trail or enjoying a bottle of 373 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 2: cold water in Bahjigito. Crippling poverty and bad governance in 374 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 2: their country made it difficult to see a future there. 375 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 2: They wanted better for their children, so they bought them 376 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 2: across the mountains and risked their lives in the jungle 377 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 2: to give them a chance in life life. I prepared 378 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 2: a lot for this trip, and I tried to search 379 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 2: for everything had my experience on the internet. But one 380 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 2: thing I really didn't expect to learn in the jungle 381 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 2: is just how much it's possible for parents to love 382 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 2: their kids. I watched exhausted mothers hoist their babies onto 383 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 2: their shoulders to keep walking and somehow come up with 384 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 2: a story that made the whole thing an adventure, not 385 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 2: a tragedy. Then did the same thing again the next day, 386 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 2: without sleeping or eating. I watch fathers carefully lay out 387 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 2: their sleeping map so their children could rest where they 388 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 2: tried to do the same on the dirt or hardwood 389 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 2: floors every day as their savings grew lower and they 390 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 2: outlook more bleak. I watched parents try to smile for 391 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 2: their kids. The sacrifices I saw them make, starving for 392 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 2: days to give their kids something to eat, or spending 393 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 2: their last remaining dollar on clean clothes for their kids 394 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 2: while they walked barefoot couldn't afford shoes really brought home 395 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 2: for me the desire these families had for a better 396 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 2: future and the sacrifices they were willing to make for 397 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 2: one another. A week later, it's still hard for me 398 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 2: to accept that I'm home safely and they're still in 399 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 2: as much danger, if not more. 400 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 10: Our walk lasted five days. Thank god I was always 401 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 10: strong enough and able to get back up when I fell, 402 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 10: because if I fell and my children had to see 403 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 10: me fall and not get up, imagine how bad that 404 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 10: would be. My children want more in the future, but 405 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 10: they despaired in the jungle. They said, tell me, mommy, 406 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 10: when are we going to get there? Mommy? What could 407 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 10: I say to them, my dear, we have to have patience, 408 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 10: because we have to make the crossing. We have to 409 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 10: move forward. If not, we can't get out of here. 410 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 2: Even among such difficult times, the Venezuelan's always greeted me 411 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,120 Speaker 2: with a laugh and a smile, especially after a few 412 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 2: days of running into each other. When I used venezuhealen 413 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 2: slang or my accents slowly reverted to the Spanish I 414 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 2: learned in Karrakas only two decades ago, they'd laugh at me, 415 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 2: as they noted at that time Karakas had attracted plenty 416 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 2: of migrants. Recern some of them, like me, didn't stay, 417 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 2: but we came to We wanted to see a revolution 418 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 2: in the flesh, and they welcomed. For a while in Caracas, 419 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 2: I lived in a social center in La Pastora. I 420 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 2: didn't pay rent, but there was a small empty room 421 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 2: and no one seemed to mind. Every day I talked 422 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 2: to strangers, big friends, and try and learn something new. 423 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 2: The situation there was an ideal. For one thing, we 424 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 2: didn't really have showers, and also I got robbed at gunpoint. 425 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 2: So for most of my time in the country, I 426 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 2: stayed with the Chilean family i'd met. They welcomed me 427 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 2: a more a left total stranger into their homes and lives. 428 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 2: In the evenings, we spent hours talking and they'd tell 429 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 2: me stories about how they'd suffered under Pinochet, the hopes 430 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 2: they'd had for their country, and how they'd had to 431 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 2: flee to Caracas like tens of thousands of their fellow Chileans. 432 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 2: They introduced me to Victor Hara and Jolly Pan. I 433 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 2: introduced them to chumber Wamba, and we shared an affection 434 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 2: for George Orwell. The song you heard after the adverts 435 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 2: was not in fact chumber Wamba, but Chilean left his 436 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 2: folk musician in Victor Haa. He's playing Eldrecho de vi 437 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 2: Videnpaz the right to live in Peace in English, and 438 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,679 Speaker 2: it's one of his most famous songs. It confronts the 439 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 2: US War in Vietnam. Later, after how I was tortured 440 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 2: and murdered by the Pinochet regime, it became an anthem 441 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 2: of protest in the country. Haarah and his friend pabul 442 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 2: and No Ruda were both symbols of the cultural power 443 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 2: of the Chilean people and the brutality of the Pinochet 444 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 2: regime who broke the hands he used to play his 445 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 2: guitar before they killed him. Haah and the Rudah both 446 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 2: moved in the same revolutionary artistic circles as my Chilean 447 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 2: host in Venezuela. At night, they tell me stories about 448 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 2: the time they spent together. We'd have to speak loudly 449 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 2: as a man who adopted me as a sort of 450 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 2: surrogate grandson and permanent hearing damage from the torture he'd 451 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 2: endured under the same regime. Luckily, he'd been able to 452 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 2: flee with his wife to Venezuela, where they were welcomed. 453 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 2: They never returned to Chile and happily lived out the 454 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 2: rest of their lives listening to their victor Haara records 455 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 2: in Caracas and living the ideals that had seen them persecuted. 456 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 2: Their kindness to me, a nineteen year old stranger with 457 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 2: terrible Spanish and nowhere to sleep at night, reflected the 458 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 2: kindness they'd received, and I've tried to reflect it in 459 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 2: turn ever since. 460 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 8: Oh no. 461 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 2: Oh, I never once heard any children crying and last 462 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 2: blankets or barjiquito. Well, none until the deportations took their 463 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 2: parents away on my last day there. Most of the 464 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 2: time the kids entertained themselves one day in Last Blancas, 465 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 2: where migrants can wait and spend weeks or months they 466 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 2: don't have the funds to move forward with their journey. 467 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 2: I left my picture while she made a call and 468 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 2: bumped in some little children playing a game where they 469 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 2: throw water bottle caps into half a breeze block from 470 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 2: various distances, each of them counting how many they could land. 471 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 2: I sat down next to them, put my recorder on 472 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 2: the ground and asked nicely if I could join it 473 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 2: like a tiny pit boss. One of the kids bought 474 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 2: me a pile of bottle tops. I chattered with them 475 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 2: as we threw a bottle cap to the broken piece 476 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 2: of concrete. What was it like in America? 477 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 1: They asked. 478 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 2: They's had a lot of questions about Africa, having probably 479 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 2: met African kids in the casita just across the way. 480 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 2: Do they have big buildings in Africa? Does it rain there? 481 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 2: How long does it take to get there in a bus? 482 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 2: Then they tested by venezuela and legitimacy by drawing me 483 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 2: in a ripper in my notebook, and I ask him 484 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 2: if I knew what it was? What I passed a test? 485 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 2: They asked me how to say some things in English, 486 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 2: and they showed me the toys they bought with them, 487 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 2: which were very few. One of them had a small 488 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 2: plastic cow of which he was very proud one. After 489 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 2: a while, they asked what I was doing, and I 490 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 2: showed them how I record interviews, at which point they 491 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 2: began recording themselves in each other, wildly stabbing at the 492 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 2: buttons on my recorder, which I will admit scared the 493 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 2: crap out of me, but I didn't have the heart 494 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 2: to take it off them. They stroked the fluffy wind 495 00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 2: protector I use on my microphone. It told me it 496 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 2: was like a tiny teddy bear. Eventually I was able 497 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 2: to trade my recorder for several small wooden animals they 498 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 2: brought with me as gifts, which seemed to be a deal. 499 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 2: The left all of us feelings that we come out ahead. 500 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 2: They seemed to n't bothered by the suffering around them. 501 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 2: But Las Blancas is no place for children. They should 502 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 2: be in school, learning the English phrases they kept repeating 503 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 2: to me every time I saw them. But for a 504 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 2: chance to use their English, they first had to endure 505 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 2: a month more danger and deprivation. I gets son some 506 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 2: slightly hold. The children made the journey alone or almost alone. 507 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 2: They were accompanied by a spaniel called Chanel. I saw 508 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 2: a future while as people are carried with them through 509 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 2: the dry and gap. But to my analysis, is the 510 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 2: first spaniel that has made the treacherous Crossinguela. 511 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 11: Donzuela. 512 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 2: Like everyone else, they had terrible memories from the jungle. 513 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 12: The truth is you have to fight a lot to 514 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 12: be able to get out of there, because not everyone 515 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 12: gets out of that jungle, and it's even more difficult 516 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 12: with small children. There are times when one goes without 517 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 12: food and it's very stressful because all around us all 518 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 12: we saw was the jungle, and we never saw the 519 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 12: way out. But it is complicated. The truth is that 520 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 12: it is very hard the jungle. Well, I would really 521 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 12: recommend that people never go there. All our feet are hurting, 522 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,199 Speaker 12: we can't walk properly. Our whole body is hurt. We 523 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 12: went days without eating. 524 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 2: They were traveling. They said to join their parents, and 525 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 2: because in Venezuela they told me they were always hungry. 526 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 2: They saw people sleeping on the streets and worry that 527 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 2: would be their only option. One day they didn't leave. 528 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 12: I want to see mom. I haven't seen her in 529 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 12: three years, and I want to have my American dream too. 530 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 13: I want to see my dad and my aunt and 531 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 13: my uncle. I haven't seen them for three years years either. 532 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 2: Despite the heart yet, they didn't blame their parents for leaving. 533 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 13: We know that we made it because of them. They're 534 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 13: the ones who sent us money for the things we need. 535 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 13: We were able to get a few things, not everything 536 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 13: we needed, but it's all thanks to them. 537 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 2: The end of their interview, as I always do, I 538 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 2: asked them if there's anything else that they wanted to share. 539 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 7: I don't know. For our parents, we love them a 540 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 7: lot and hope we can see them soon. 541 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 2: Like many of the Venezuelan's I spoke to, their American 542 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 2: dreams were pretty modest for most of them, though they'll 543 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 2: be unachievable in the current immigration system. They'll end up 544 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 2: stuck in Mexico, in Mexico City, perhaps for further south, 545 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 2: but in Tijuana or Juaro's waiting across the border. They're lucky. 546 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 2: But if they cried a cross between ports of entry 547 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 2: or get caught traveling without red string in Mexico, they 548 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 2: were being deported or relocated back to southern Mexico Hestica 549 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 2: explaining that process. 550 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 8: The Mexican National Guard has been detaining people who are 551 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 8: trying to cross the US medical border, and they had 552 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 8: been sending them south to Mexico City and Chiapas to Tapachula. 553 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,479 Speaker 8: Now there's been this huge effort to stop people from waiting, 554 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 8: not only at the US Mexico border, but even in 555 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 8: Mexico City. So we're seeing Mexican Immigration and National Guard 556 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 8: doing sweeps of migrant camps, of apartment buildings, doesn't matter 557 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 8: if the person has a CBP one appointment. Sometimes they'll 558 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 8: just send them souths to either Chiapa's an increasing lead 559 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 8: to Basco so viet Moosa, which is where people are 560 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 8: arriving in Tabasco, has one shelter and I think the 561 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 8: capacity is around to two hundred fifty three hundred people, 562 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 8: and earlier this year they were sending twenty thousand migrants 563 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 8: a month there and then they posted the military steps 564 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 8: so that people can't leave, and it's very dangerous there. 565 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 8: It's a drug tracking area, so it's you know, not 566 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 8: only are people sleeping in the streets, but they're sleeping 567 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 8: on the streets of some of the most dangerous cities 568 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 8: and massacre win very few services there to help them 569 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 8: even get their next meal. 570 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 2: This, of course, didn't happen without the influence of the 571 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 2: United States. In many ways, Joe Biden has done exactly 572 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 2: what Donald Trump promised to do. Not only has he 573 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 2: built more wall, he's also forced Mexico to pay for 574 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 2: a significant amount of the US IS immigration enforcement. But 575 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 2: when people are sent back to south of Mexico, they'll 576 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 2: just make their way north again, only this time with 577 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 2: fewer resources and even greater risk. They're all proud of 578 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 2: where they're from. About half the groups I saw had 579 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 2: Venezuela flags and the cats or backpacks, but they're also 580 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 2: very aware of the betrayal they get as Venezuelan's and 581 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 2: the US media, and many of them made the very 582 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 2: valid point if American is afraid of Venezuela gangs, they 583 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 2: ought to consider how much more afraid people are in 584 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 2: a country where they actually exist. 585 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:59,959 Speaker 1: Yes, we Incelana Parazon stands and female I'm thirteen. 586 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 7: Please don't believe that because one person from Venezuela does crime, 587 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 7: that all Venezuelans do crime. 588 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 2: But at least they get it portrayed in the US media. 589 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 2: Many African migrants don't even get that. Of course, that 590 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 2: doesn't mean they don't know about the USA. His powers 591 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 2: in her Anglophane Cameronian group again talking about their impressions 592 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 2: of America where they'd like to live when they arrive here. 593 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 11: You know, America is a very beautiful country, and America 594 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 11: has human rights. They care about the citizens. In fact, 595 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 11: they care about humanity. See, I don't want to have 596 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 11: a friend that I'm gonna stay with for the meantime. 597 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 2: Then it gets that's great, Yeah, that helps a lot. Yeah, 598 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 2: do you know which city your friend lives in? 599 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 11: She's in Maryland, Maryland. 600 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, So. 601 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 11: If I'm asks, if you don't mind me asking, of course, 602 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 11: what Americans? How do they treat or how do they 603 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 11: say immigrants? 604 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 2: Oh, my friend, it's changing a lot. African migrants in 605 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 2: particular will struggle with their life of resources. The absence 606 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 2: of solidarity structures an obvious anti blackness along the journey. 607 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 2: Along with this, people they meet along the way simply 608 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 2: lack context of the journeys, why they're leaving, what they're fleeing. 609 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 2: Language barriers may exclude many of them from using CBP one, 610 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 2: which is only offered English Spanish and Haitian Creole. Less 611 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 2: than fifteen percent of asylum cases are conducted in English, 612 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 2: but the app ignores huge swass of the world outside 613 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 2: the Western Hemisphere and Bajiquito. I used French to speak 614 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 2: to migros you didn't speak English, and began to notice 615 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 2: the complete absence of signage. And I think other than 616 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 2: Spanish and sometimes English and Creole, this is likely an 617 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 2: issue throughout their long journeys. Here's one migrant from Angola, 618 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 2: and I should probably know at this point that Angolan 619 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 2: people tend to speak Portuguese, that's a national language, but 620 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 2: French with the language I shared with some of them, 621 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 2: as I don't speak Portuguese. 622 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 5: Pretty completely. 623 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 14: It was too much, very complicated. Like me, I did 624 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 14: a week in Brazil, out at Brazil and for Peru, 625 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 14: Peru to nicol Klee. Then here I did. We did 626 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 14: four days, four days walking. There are many mountains, many risks, 627 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 14: there are many animals along the route. You have to 628 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 14: follow the path for four days and there's no food. 629 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 14: But we are glad to arrive today. This is the 630 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 14: first group. There's the second, third, fourth, fifth group. They're 631 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 14: still on the road. I'm very proud of the fact 632 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 14: that we made it despite the suffering. 633 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 3: But God was with us. 634 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:31,280 Speaker 14: That is what is important. 635 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 2: There are numerous instances of French speaking migrants trying to 636 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 2: approach the border near me in Santy Cedra and being 637 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 2: turned away for not having an appointment on that it's 638 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 2: not available in a language they can understand. These language 639 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 2: barriers might stop the migrants getting information, but they don't 640 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 2: stop them helping one another. His powers group describing the 641 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 2: isolation they felt, but also the kindness they experienced. Do 642 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 2: you think people on the trip treat African people differently? 643 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 11: Yes, they're living communicated, They're just by themselves. They don't associate. 644 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 11: They look at all differently. 645 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. 646 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 5: I had someone who support their tea. 647 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:13,879 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I saw. 648 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 11: I saw how kind the. 649 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 2: Person was because of their obvious foreignness and perceived an 650 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 2: ability to communicate. African migrants are often targeted for crime 651 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 2: in Mexico. Since leaving Panama, I've heard from migrants who 652 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 2: are raped, kidnapped, ransomed, and I even heard about one 653 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 2: who was killed. Because of their difficulties accessing this CVP 654 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 2: one app many face longer waits in Mexico, which may 655 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 2: in turn leave them open to extortion or see them 656 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 2: decide to cross the border between ports of entry. I've 657 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 2: met hundreds of migrants, mainly Mauritanians and Geneians, who have 658 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,359 Speaker 2: made this difficult choice since Biden's Asylent Bank came into force. 659 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,800 Speaker 2: Due to the distance, African migrants also face a longer, 660 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 2: more expensive, and more dangerous journey. His premier from Zimbabwe, 661 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,879 Speaker 2: describing her journey to get to bat the situation for. 662 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 1: Me it was tough. I just ran away to South 663 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: Africa and South Africa was not safe. Solophobia and they 664 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: almost kill me and my boyfriend and even my my 665 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: big father was abusive, too much aposive because of the politics, 666 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: opposition party. So it was now even in South Africa, 667 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,800 Speaker 1: I was not safe at all. It was those people. 668 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,319 Speaker 1: They were like following me and my daughter. For I 669 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: spent three months on the road coming here. I leave 670 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: South Africa, I think fourth of July till now I'm 671 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: in Panama. I'm still working using basses. 672 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 2: Jesus, how did you get away from Africa to America? 673 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 8: Did you fly or take a boat? 674 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 1: The thing is I fly from Juannespec to Brazil. Then 675 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: I seek Asylam in Brazil. Then I wanted to stay 676 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: in Brazil, so people said, no, you in Brazil, you 677 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 1: can't because of language. Yeah, yeah, Portuguese. So I start 678 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: also using people's roots, like you list take this pass 679 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: from point A to point base. So we take a 680 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: bus from Brazil to Bolivia, then from Bolivia to Peru, Peru, 681 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: toad equad to Colombia. Then you start working with using 682 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: Darwin Cape too. I'm here in Panama. 683 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,720 Speaker 2: African migrants will end up in different shelters, little more remote, 684 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 2: will have less connectivity, again, making their asylum process harder. 685 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 2: Unlike migrants from the Western Hemisphere, they might struggle to 686 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 2: find solidarity networks even inside the USA without a significant diaspora. 687 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 2: Many of the migrants I met the jungle have struggled 688 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 2: to find sponsors. Los of the people I spoke to here, 689 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,240 Speaker 2: including Primrose and her daughter, are still looking for someone 690 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 2: to give them a help hand as they start their 691 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 2: new life. We spoke a lot over the week I 692 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 2: is there, and we've spoken most days since. It's heartbreaking 693 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 2: for me to see her daughter going for months with 694 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 2: our education or even a safe place to sleep. I've 695 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 2: seen photos in them sleeping on the street. They've ridden 696 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 2: crowded busses north, and I've heard their frustrated attempts to 697 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 2: comply with the arcane and complicated restrictions on their right 698 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 2: to come here and ask for help. And it's been 699 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 2: really hard since I got home to reconcile this with 700 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 2: a national discussion that seems to see migration as a 701 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,760 Speaker 2: number that we have to decrease a migrants to something 702 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 2: other than people who want to come here for all 703 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 2: the same reasons. I live happily and peaceably as our neighbors. 704 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 2: Now that they've come this far, magants from outside the 705 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 2: Western Hemisphere have to keep going. They cannot even file 706 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 2: their claims on CBP one until they make it to Tapatula, 707 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 2: which is hundreds of dollars and thousands of kilometers from Panama. 708 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 2: They'd likely don't have the funds to go back home 709 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 2: even if they want to, and they're far more likely 710 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 2: to be robbed or kidnapped along the way. However, their 711 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 2: story is often aren't told. Reporting on the board is 712 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 2: still largely focused on Spanish speaking migrants, with some space 713 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 2: of Chinese O Haitians. The migrants from Africa rarely get 714 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 2: much care or attention in the media. In part this 715 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 2: has helped them before the demonization the Venezuelan migrants'rel too 716 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 2: aware of, but in part it also leads to a 717 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 2: lack of concern for their needs. I went to end 718 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 2: today with Gabriel from Equatorial Guinea sharing his message for Americans. Aha. 719 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:34,720 Speaker 15: Know, yeah, a lot of people get this confused. Africa 720 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,719 Speaker 15: is not a country. A lot of them think when 721 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 15: they see you and you're black person, they say, are 722 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 15: you African? And it's like, there are lots of countries 723 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 15: in Africa. Khana, Nigeria, you got, Guinea, you got the 724 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,799 Speaker 15: more Aitanian people. There are loads of countries. I wish 725 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,879 Speaker 15: people would know. How do I say this? I wish 726 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 15: they'd take us into a out because really they don't 727 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 15: consider us when they say Africa is a country. They 728 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 15: don't care about us the way we care about them. 729 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 15: And this is the way of seeing things which doesn't 730 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 15: consider us as human, not the same as them. You understand, 731 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 15: they see us as Africans or animals, something like that. 732 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 12: It could happen. 733 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 7: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 734 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 12: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 735 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 12: coolzonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio, app, 736 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 12: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can 737 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 12: now find sources for it could happen here, listed directly 738 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,360 Speaker 12: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.