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Speaker 1: Hey there, folks.

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Speaker 2: It is Sunday, December twenty eighth, and letters, lawsuits, and

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Speaker 2: legislation is the most wonderful time of the year at

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Speaker 2: the DJTJFK Center for the Performing Arts in DC. And

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Speaker 2: with that, welcome to this episode of Amy A TJ Roads.

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Speaker 2: Why you laughing?

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Speaker 1: It's the most wonderful time of the year.

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Speaker 3: Did you have that planned or did that just roll

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Speaker 3: right out of your mouth?

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Speaker 1: You know it?

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Speaker 2: If you don't even have to write this stuff, it

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Speaker 2: writes itself. We are literally talking about what is supposed

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Speaker 2: to be a special time at a memorial to one

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Speaker 2: of our some would argue greatest and most influential presidents.

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Speaker 1: I'm supposed to have holiday concerts and all this going on.

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Speaker 2: But literally we are talking about what lawsuits, a letter,

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Speaker 2: and legislation. Let's start with the lawsuit part of it first. Yes,

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Speaker 2: someone has now sued to get Donald Trump's name down.

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Speaker 2: The legislation we're talking about is a couple of bills

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Speaker 2: floating around out there to keep this from ever happening again.

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Speaker 2: And then a scathing letter from the board to the

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Speaker 2: guy who just canceled the Christmas Eve concert.

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Speaker 1: Where do you want to start.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think you just nailed it, and it is

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Speaker 4: eye popping, jaw dropping.

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Speaker 3: It is.

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Speaker 4: We're in a new era, and it does all seem repetitive.

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Speaker 4: That's the problem. You even pointed this out. We will

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Speaker 4: read it for you. But this letter that was written

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Speaker 4: from the board chairman the Kennedy Center board that was

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Speaker 4: appointed by President Trump. This letter to this jazz musician

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Speaker 4: who canceled the Christmas Eve concert in protest for having

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump's name put on the Kennedy Center's facade, it

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Speaker 4: sounds as if Donald Trump himself wrote it.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this is fair familiar language.

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Speaker 4: I would be willing to bet that he said here's

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Speaker 4: a sample draft, and.

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Speaker 3: Then they just said, let's keep it as is.

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Speaker 2: How do you usually send it to somebody saying you

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Speaker 2: have any notes?

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Speaker 4: And if the president, well not just the president, but

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Speaker 4: if President Trump asked you that, you say.

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Speaker 3: No, sir, this is perfect.

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Speaker 1: So let's start with again. This is all. Everybody knows it,

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Speaker 1: and Rose, we're only a little over. It hasn't even been.

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Speaker 2: Two weeks since he put his name up there. Right,

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Speaker 2: everybody knows this now. It says the Donald J. Trump

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Speaker 2: and John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing.

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Speaker 4: Arts Memorial Center. I like the word memorial is there,

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Speaker 4: like it's there's no question this is a memorial center.

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Speaker 1: I think we don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't know it's because it is active and ongoing.

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Speaker 2: I don't think we look at it sometimes the same

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Speaker 2: as we look at the Lincoln Memorial, the Jefferson Memorial,

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Speaker 2: the Washington Memorial. Those are just monuments sitting there. This

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Speaker 2: thing is active and work everything. But this is the equivalent.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and I don't think either one of us realized

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Speaker 4: that it had that same status. Yes, because it is

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Speaker 4: an operating theater. There are events that take place there,

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Speaker 4: so it feels more like a theater and less like

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Speaker 4: a memorial. But it absolutely, one hundred percent is a

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Speaker 4: memorial and was dedicated specifically to honoring the legacy of

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Speaker 4: John F.

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Speaker 3: Kennedy.

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Speaker 1: So let's start with.

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Speaker 2: They have been doing these Christmas Eve concerts for years,

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Speaker 2: for decades, and the guy who's been running them is

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Speaker 2: jazz musician Chuck Read. He's a drummer. Most people don't

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Speaker 2: know his name, but a long time international, even renowned drummer.

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Speaker 1: He's been doing the concert.

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Speaker 2: Well robe He said specifically that he canceled the concert

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Speaker 2: because of the name change, no other reason, period, point blank.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he made it very clear. I appreciated his direct honesty.

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Speaker 4: He said, I think it was within It was pretty quick.

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Speaker 4: It was swept his decision once the board voted to

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Speaker 4: put Donald Trump's name up. And remember Trump's name got

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Speaker 4: put up the next day, like within hours of the

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Speaker 4: board's decision.

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Speaker 3: Trump feigned surprise. He said he was surprised and honored.

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Speaker 4: The lettering was ready to go and was being put

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Speaker 4: up on the building within hours of the board's decision.

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Speaker 3: There was no surprise.

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Speaker 2: Guess they found a hobby lobby open at the right

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Speaker 2: thoughts that they needed.

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Speaker 3: Sure, that's what it was. So yes, Red made it

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Speaker 3: very clear.

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Speaker 4: He spoke to journalists and said this is the reason

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Speaker 4: why it's a shame.

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Speaker 3: He had been in charge of it since two thousand

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Speaker 3: and six.

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Speaker 4: And he even said it's especially sad because they usually

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Speaker 4: honor a high school musician.

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Speaker 3: It's a big deal.

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Speaker 4: One lucky high schooler gets to take part in this

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Speaker 4: and that was canceled for the first time in decades.

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Speaker 2: Okay, can I stop there before we move on with

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Speaker 2: the news. The idea what do you do you do?

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Speaker 2: What's in your heart, But should you have people miss

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Speaker 2: out on the experience, on the concert, on the music,

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Speaker 2: to have some high school kid miss out on a

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Speaker 2: moment because a name is on a building, do you

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Speaker 2: carry on?

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Speaker 1: I don't know the right answer I have.

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Speaker 2: You guess you have to do it in your heart,

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Speaker 2: but to in some degree, I hate that people are

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Speaker 2: missing out.

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Speaker 4: So I really do think that this is just my

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Speaker 4: personal opinion. It is a little bit of cutting off

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Speaker 4: your nose despite your face. I think going higher is

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Speaker 4: better than going lower. I know he made a point,

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Speaker 4: the musician Chuck read. He made a point. He was

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Speaker 4: making a statement, and certainly it made headlines and now

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Speaker 4: it's continuing to do so. So in some way, yes,

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Speaker 4: his form of protests had some pretty sad consequences, but

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Speaker 4: he is probably getting the desired result in terms of

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Speaker 4: publicity and pressure he's hoping to put on the president.

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Speaker 1: However, that is hilarious.

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Speaker 3: It's not It's like David and Goliath.

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Speaker 1: It's hilarious. What are you going to do?

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Speaker 4: You're not going to achieve anything other than creating a

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Speaker 4: firestorm in the media.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, so let's go now, Chuck Red con

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Speaker 2: counsels the concert. I was surprised though there was a

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Speaker 2: letter that the board president, Richard Grenell. You don't know

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Speaker 2: his name necessarily either, but he's a close, close ally

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Speaker 2: and advisor to President Donald J.

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Speaker 1: Trump.

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Speaker 2: He sends a letter as the board president to mister Red,

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Speaker 2: and he robes, as we said, ripped, let loose. This

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Speaker 2: whole letter might as well have been posted in several

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Speaker 2: truth social posts. Is what it sounds like. Show to

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Speaker 2: the capital letters. I think there's no capital letters. But

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Speaker 2: other than that, this letter is hilarious. He starts, Dear

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Speaker 2: mister Red, I write to you, as president of the

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Speaker 2: Donald J.

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Speaker 1: Trump and John F.

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Speaker 2: Kennedy Memorial Center for the Performing Arts, regarding your abrupt

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Speaker 2: cancelation of your scheduled performance Jazz Jam.

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Speaker 1: For partisan political reasons.

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Speaker 2: Your decision to withdraw this last minute, explicit explicitly in

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Speaker 2: response to the Center's renaming, which honors President Trump's extraordinary

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Speaker 2: efforts to save this national treasure, is classic intolerance and

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Speaker 2: very costly to a non profit arts institution.

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Speaker 1: That I have to kind of agree. What do we do.

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Speaker 2: We can choose not to participate, we can choose not

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Speaker 2: to vote, We can choose all kinds of things.

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Speaker 1: Is this classic intolerance?

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Speaker 4: Yes, in a way, yes it is, and I do

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Speaker 4: do you think he could have recused himself as the musician.

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Speaker 3: He didn't have to cancel the whole concert.

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Speaker 1: You make the point, that's the compromise.

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Speaker 2: This will go on, but I want to step away

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Speaker 2: for personal reasons, but I don't want anyone else to

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Speaker 2: have to miss out.

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Speaker 3: That would have been the right call.

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Speaker 1: There you go.

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Speaker 2: Damn, you usually nail it, like mid episode.

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Speaker 3: It all comes together.

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Speaker 4: But yes, that would have been You're right, a perfect compromise.

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Speaker 3: It really would have.

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Speaker 4: So the letter goes on, and this is when it

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Speaker 4: really gets interesting.

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Speaker 3: So he's upset.

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Speaker 4: Of course, he says, regrettably, your action surrenders to this

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Speaker 4: sad bullying tactics employed by certain elements on the left

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Speaker 4: who have sought to intimidate artists into boycotting performances at

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Speaker 4: our National Cultural Center. Nevertheless, it is worth noting that

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Speaker 4: attendance for your jazz jam had been lagging considerably behind

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Speaker 4: our other Christmas and holiday offerings, which have drawn strong

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Speaker 4: crowds and enthusiastic response. The contrast between the public's lack

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Speaker 4: of interest in your show with the success we are

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Speaker 4: experiencing under our new chairman is drastic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's Trump.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he maybe personally wrote that line.

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Speaker 4: I would believe that, and I think that it continues

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Speaker 4: with perhaps the Trump speak. Our innovative Casey Speakeasy, an

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Speaker 4: intimate rooftop after hours venue featuring live jazz, has consistently

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Speaker 4: sold out, attracting diverse audiences and revitalizing the genre in

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Speaker 4: exciting ways. The most ovent, guard and well regarded performers

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Speaker 4: in your genre will still perform regularly, and unlike you,

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Speaker 4: they'll do it to sold out crowds, regardless of their

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Speaker 4: political leanings.

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Speaker 3: That was unnecessary.

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Speaker 1: Throw it insult in there.

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Speaker 2: Don't know if it's accurate or not, but it doesn't

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Speaker 2: matter if it is, because this is out there. I'm

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Speaker 2: not going and looking through all the attendance records for

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Speaker 2: the past twenty years. They just throw that stuff out there. Fine,

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Speaker 2: but it's meant to be an insult. We don't even

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Speaker 2: want you or need you. You whack nothing, get out.

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Speaker 2: We don't even want you here. You don't do anything.

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Speaker 2: Cross now, your mama's ugly.

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Speaker 3: And that's where the board went over the line.

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Speaker 4: They could have also just stopped it at so this

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Speaker 4: was unnecessary. Now you're taking things to a childish level,

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Speaker 4: and now you're saying nana nana boo boo, and it's

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Speaker 4: just that's when I'm like, come on, I understand what

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Speaker 4: they're doing, the letter they sent, but this is when

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Speaker 4: you lose me, and when you lose a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: They went through and they have a lot of stuff

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Speaker 2: here about Trump's decisive intervention saving the building from what

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Speaker 2: they say was almost certain destruction.

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Speaker 1: That I miss something.

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Speaker 3: I actually have never heard this before.

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Speaker 4: This note that there were apparently structural assessments that indicated

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Speaker 4: severe deterioration. There were recommendations for full demolition and rebuild.

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Speaker 3: I had not heard that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what you know, it's I wouldn't mind updated modern

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Speaker 2: President John F. Kennedy Memorial Center. I wouldn't mind it

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Speaker 2: at all. But they close out this letter UH mentioning

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Speaker 2: the dismal ticket sales. They say it's cost them considerably,

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Speaker 2: and I believe the last minute cancelation probably did. But

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Speaker 2: this is the line now quote, this is your official

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Speaker 2: notice that we will seek one million dollars in damages

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Speaker 2: from you for this political stunt.

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Speaker 4: And they will, no doubt, no doubt, that's one thing

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Speaker 4: we know for sure. When President Trump or any of

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Speaker 4: his affiliates say they're going to sue you, they do

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Speaker 4: follow through. This is not just a threat, this is

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Speaker 4: notice for absolutely so, yes, one million dollars in damages.

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Speaker 2: Hey, look, we should note it's been widely reported this

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Speaker 2: year in ticket sales that that place have the words

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Speaker 2: they use are plummeted. There's some plate in New York

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Speaker 2: Times report a fifty percent reduction in sales. Ticket sales

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Speaker 2: to that place. Now, it could have a lot to

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Speaker 2: do with a lot of stuff, but when you have

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Speaker 2: the likes of East Array and lin Manuel Miranda saying

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Speaker 2: we ain't coming to that center, a lot of people

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Speaker 2: will not.

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Speaker 1: Go because they'll listen to those people.

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Speaker 2: But also those are great offerings to sell tickets at

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Speaker 2: the Kennedy Center to go see Hamilton at the Kennedy Center.

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Speaker 3: That was supposed to be twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 4: Hamilton was going to be at the Kennedy Center and

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Speaker 4: lin Manuel said no more.

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Speaker 2: So that is obviously going to hurt your ticket sales. Yes,

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Speaker 2: this isn't helpful.

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Speaker 1: And look, we talked about Trump's name on the outside.

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Speaker 2: This is hurting artists and everybody who works at that place.

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Speaker 2: When ticket sales go down, people are losing jobs, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of those musicians are not playing to sold

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Speaker 2: out crowds and not making the money they're used to.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I will say this last line of the

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Speaker 4: letter I agree with. So I do think that this

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Speaker 4: is an important part and both sides need to acknowledge this.

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Speaker 3: They end the letter.

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Speaker 4: This institution remains dedicated to the excellence and accessibility for

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Speaker 4: generations to come, and we will not yield to the

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Speaker 4: pressure tactics being directed at us from political performers on

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Speaker 4: our stages. True artists perform for everyone, regardless of the

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Speaker 4: political affiliation of audience members.

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Speaker 3: Do you agree with that?

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Speaker 2: If they would have handed us this letter for notes,

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Speaker 2: there are certain sections to cross out, and there are

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Speaker 2: certain sections we wouldn't have touched because it makes a

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Speaker 2: good point.

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Speaker 3: That is right exactly.

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Speaker 2: Let's have that conversation. Let's talk about that. Let's talk

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 1: As an artist. Can you have a personal Can you

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Speaker 1: make a personal statement? Should you at all? Should it matter?

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Speaker 2: Yes, if it's in your heart, fine, But how can

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Speaker 2: you argue haven't we done this? So?

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Speaker 1: Hell? What? It just sounds crazy?

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Speaker 2: Johnny Cash, he wouldn't perform for freaking prisoners, Like, how

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Speaker 2: do you make a distinction, like you're not worthy or

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to participate because you don't deserve my

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Speaker 2: art or access to it or for whatever political it's art?

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Speaker 1: Right? Is this that the beauty of it are supposed

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Speaker 1: to be the point?

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Speaker 3: Music, visual performance.

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Speaker 4: It's all supposed to unite or bring us together a

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Speaker 4: shared experience, no matter what language we speak, no matter

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Speaker 4: what political affiliation we have, who we voted for, what

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Speaker 4: we think about whatever, that is supposed to be uniting.

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Speaker 4: So it's so sad to see the arts being used divisively.

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Speaker 2: Well we talk, Yes, that was the letter part. There's

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Speaker 2: also some legislation floating around out there. Yes, folks, they

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Speaker 2: are introducing bills in Congress. They don't even want Trump

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Speaker 2: to be able to put his name on a damn

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Speaker 2: park bench. We'll explain what that's about. Stay here, all right, folks.

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Speaker 2: We continue on this Sunday, December twenty eighth, with all

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Speaker 2: that's going on around the jay No excuse me, let

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Speaker 2: me get it right to Donald J.

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Speaker 1: Trump. John F.

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Speaker 2: Kennedy Memorial Center for the Performing Arts, Center for the

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Speaker 2: Performing Arts, Okay, that's what I didn't realize. It's such

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Speaker 2: a mouthful these days. But Robes, there's some We got

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Speaker 2: a bunch of bills, okay, lawsuits and legislation. There's a

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Speaker 2: law suit at least that one Ohio congresswoman has put

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Speaker 2: out there that she wants to take his name down.

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Speaker 2: That's a lawsuit essentially saying he doesn't have the right

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Speaker 2: to do this, it should come down.

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Speaker 1: Then we got at least two pieces of legislation.

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Speaker 2: Voting around where they're trying to prevent Trump from putting

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Speaker 2: his name on anything else.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 4: Maryland Democratic Congresswoman April McLain Delaney, she's actually introduced two

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Speaker 4: bills in the House. The first one is called the

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Speaker 4: Kennedy Center Protection Act, so that would void the board's

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Speaker 4: vote to put Trump's name out there and mandate the

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Speaker 4: removal of Trump's name from all signage. And then she

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Speaker 4: also this is the big one. She's put out this legislation.

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Speaker 4: It's called the Federal Property Integrity Act, and that would

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Speaker 4: prohibit renaming federal assets of any kind after sitting presidents.

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Speaker 3: That makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 4: And Bernie Sanders then followed through in the Senate and said,

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Speaker 4: I will be introducing legislation prohibiting the naming of federal

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Speaker 4: buildings after sitting president. So there'll be a parallel bill

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Speaker 4: in the Senate that is much like the House one

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Speaker 4: that says, hey, if you are sitting president, you don't

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Speaker 4: get to name things after yourself, period. And he started

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Speaker 4: Britty Sanders put this out on X and he said,

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Speaker 4: what arrogance, what narcissism.

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Speaker 3: He added that, but what.

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Speaker 2: A shame we have to write that bill. We need

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Speaker 2: laws to tell a sitting president not to put his

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Speaker 2: name on federal buildings. We never thought we would need that.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what's next, but it's I can't believe

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Speaker 2: of all places he would have put his name up,

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Speaker 2: that one feels especially like I actually googled this morning

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Speaker 2: to see if the JFK Eternal flame was still going.

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Speaker 1: I swear to god I did. This. Is that guy

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Speaker 1: JFK like, who has an ego.

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Speaker 2: Big enough that they think they can put their name

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Speaker 2: in front of JFKs and not.

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Speaker 4: Just think it, but actually do it and have everything

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Speaker 4: ready to go hours after a board you appointed said

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Speaker 4: you could, Yeah, we know who the I really think

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Speaker 4: he might be one of the only people in the

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Speaker 4: world who would feel fully confident and entitled to do

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Speaker 4: so well, and he did it.

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Speaker 2: Can you imagine Barack Obama, I want to rename Mlkday

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Speaker 2: the Obama Mlkday. It's gonna be a new federal holiday.

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Speaker 4: What honestly, I mean, he's basically his birthday, which is

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Speaker 4: Flag Day. I'm waiting for that now to become a

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Speaker 4: national holiday, because already now you get the free park

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Speaker 4: admission national Can he name a federal holiday for his

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Speaker 4: birthday and claim it's for Flag Day?

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Speaker 3: In quotes?

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Speaker 2: I just said no and laughed at myself because we

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Speaker 2: say no, he can't do that, and he keeps doing stuff.

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Speaker 2: By the way, it is not by our account, but

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Speaker 2: by every legal scholar who was looking at the law

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Speaker 2: says he cannot legally change the name of the building.

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Speaker 2: Now he has an officially, legally he can't. Then there

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Speaker 2: was a question of could he put the signage even up,

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Speaker 2: and they say, legally he can't do that either because

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Speaker 2: of a specific language in the law that says no

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Speaker 2: plan So memorials of any kind yet be added up

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Speaker 2: in the place. Are they going to argue it's not

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Speaker 2: a plaque, it's not really a memorial. It's not really

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Speaker 2: a name to somebody else.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: How do you enforce that? I agree with you. I

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Speaker 3: have looked.

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Speaker 4: There is not one person who says what President Trump

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Speaker 4: is done is legal, not one.

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Speaker 3: You can't even put your whole the whole.

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Speaker 4: Point of the Kennedy Center Board is that it was

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Speaker 4: supposed to be and had been up until now, bipartisan.

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Speaker 4: You can't just wipe out the whole board and put

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Speaker 4: all people.

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Speaker 1: So you can't. That's illegal, too, said you can't.

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Speaker 3: Yes, well okay.

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Speaker 4: The point being is yes he did, and he yes,

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Speaker 4: I can. Okay, okay, but okay, so it's illegal. How

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Speaker 4: do you then enforce it? He's the commander in chief?

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Speaker 3: What do you do? That's the point. You can't. Can

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Speaker 3: you enforce it?

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Speaker 2: What somebody has to send in the military to protect

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Speaker 2: a construction worker who was taking down the D and

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Speaker 2: the O and the.

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Speaker 1: N and the I don't know.

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Speaker 4: This is fascinating to see what happens. I mean, people

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Speaker 4: will be studying this period in our country for generations

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Speaker 4: to come.

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Speaker 1: Okay, can we sleep first and then get to that part?

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Speaker 1: All right?

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Speaker 2: Folks, Well, we always appreciate you spending some time with us.

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Speaker 2: This is another fascinating but certainly sad this one. You

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Speaker 2: know what stung most Maria Schreiver. Yeah, her that tweet.

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Speaker 2: She sent a long kind of explaining that it's stung.

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Speaker 2: This is her family member, this is their memorial. This

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Speaker 2: is you equated it to putting your name on somebody's

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Speaker 2: tombstone above theirs.

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Speaker 3: It's exactly what it feels like.

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Speaker 4: And yes, and I appreciate the Kennedy's have been outspoken

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Speaker 4: but respectful, and I think that's at least some decorum

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Speaker 4: has been taking place.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that should be That should be your slogan. What'd

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Speaker 2: you just say? Outspoken but respectful. That's that's every That

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Speaker 2: should be your campaign slogan. Hey, we're going to be

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Speaker 2: outspoken but respectful, and all we.

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Speaker 3: Do would not be wonderful folks.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, we.

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Speaker 2: Always appreciate you listening to us, folks. For my dear

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Speaker 2: Amy Robock, I am T J.

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Speaker 1: Holmes. We will talk to also