Speaker 1: Not everyone knew that I had several people in my
Speaker 1: life that had been murdered at various times in my life,
Speaker 1: or that I had bared witness to a lot of
Speaker 1: abuse or pain, or had a lot of harmful abusive
Speaker 1: experiences in my own life. And everyone is walking into
Speaker 1: the room with something that we don't know about. And
Speaker 1: you know, there really is just in a planet of
Speaker 1: nine billion, hundreds of millions of people that have had
Speaker 1: the experience of never having love reflected to them or
Speaker 1: role modeled for them.
Speaker 2: Today we have Davey Brown. She is a renowned well
Speaker 2: being educator, Ahila and an author that has dedicated her
Speaker 2: life to guiding individuals towards holistic wellness and self discovery.
Speaker 2: How can someone be in survival mode, be or a
Speaker 2: low place in their life, but still stop behating.
Speaker 1: Journey sometimes just letting yourself break a little bit, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that's the thing that we tend to avoid
Speaker 1: for so many like valid reasons, like you have to
Speaker 1: keep going, But there's no amount of talk therapy that
Speaker 1: is going to change your experiences in life. Only somatic
Speaker 1: processing can do that. We can all say we're a
Speaker 1: lot of things and believe that and have the knowledge
Speaker 1: that enforces that, but until you practice it, it's just
Speaker 1: the theory. You have to prove the theory and the
Speaker 1: hypothesis by doing.
Speaker 3: I'm Radi Wkah and on my podcast A Really Good Cry,
Speaker 3: we embrace the messy and the beautiful, providing a space
Speaker 3: for raw, unfiltered conversations that celebrate vulnerability and allow you
Speaker 3: to tune in to learn, connect and find comfort together.
Speaker 3: Hi everyone, and welcome back to this week's episode of
Speaker 3: A Really Good Cry.
Speaker 2: Today we have Davey Brown. She is a renowned well
Speaker 2: being educator, a healer, and an author that has dedicated
Speaker 2: her life to guiding individuals towards holistic wellness and self discovery.
Speaker 2: She was also Chief Impact Officer at Chopra Global, founded
Speaker 2: by Deepak Chopra, and her new book, Living with Wisdom
Speaker 2: is such a beautiful guide to help relieve pain that
Speaker 2: is blocking your spiritual growth. Thank you so much for
Speaker 2: being here.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Roddy. I'm so excited to be with you.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm so happy to be with you. And I
Speaker 2: read your book and I just thought it was one
Speaker 2: so beautifully written but also felt like a friend that's
Speaker 2: talking to you, which I really appreciated. It didn't feel
Speaker 2: like as much as you are so wise and you
Speaker 2: have so much wisdom to share, it didn't feel like
Speaker 2: an educator. It felt like a friend giving you advice
Speaker 2: in a way that holds experience and your own pain
Speaker 2: and trauma being put through it and sharing yourself with us.
Speaker 1: So thank you, so much, thank you, thank you beautiful.
Speaker 1: That was so my intention, Like it felt amazing to
Speaker 1: hear that. That's like what you were feeling from it,
Speaker 1: and what you got from it, and.
Speaker 2: What experiences brought you to write this book.
Speaker 4: God, so many you know.
Speaker 1: I think I have always been studying my life from
Speaker 1: a very young age, and I think some of us
Speaker 1: are naturally kind of that sensitive or that aware that
Speaker 1: we're noticing paradox even before we know the word, or
Speaker 1: we're noticing, you know, contrast in the things people say,
Speaker 1: but then the way the world behaves. That was always
Speaker 1: kind of like very glaring to me. But then just
Speaker 1: also someone who has had a lot of experiences from
Speaker 1: a very young age with trauma, with loss, with kind
Speaker 1: of living a really really doalistic experience, There's just never
Speaker 1: been a moment in my life that I think I
Speaker 1: haven't been investigating grief to some extent, or investigating like
Speaker 1: what is joy actually or why does it feel like
Speaker 1: some people have it in some don And these were
Speaker 1: just always kind of themes that no matter where my
Speaker 1: life took me, that was always kind of like the
Speaker 1: undercurrent the underflow of what I was kind of watching
Speaker 1: and witnessing and just like developing a lot of perspective
Speaker 1: on Yeah.
Speaker 2: And do you feel like worth and joy have a
Speaker 2: connection to each other. I feel like I've had the
Speaker 2: lowest moments of joy or the hardest moments in my
Speaker 2: life where I think I've lacked a sense of worth
Speaker 2: and so so from my experience, I think worth and
Speaker 2: joy in your own self have such a deep correlation.
Speaker 2: But how has your experience been with that?
Speaker 4: You know what?
Speaker 1: What I'm hearing in you saying that is like the
Speaker 1: way I notice both of those as like inner feelings.
Speaker 1: It's like having space, right, because like if you don't
Speaker 1: have the space inside to even hold or notice or
Speaker 1: rest in your own worth, you're not going.
Speaker 4: To feel it.
Speaker 1: And it's the same thing with joy, you know, And
Speaker 1: I think that that's something that is really important for
Speaker 1: a lot of people to know, especially if you've been
Speaker 1: through challenging things. Joy truthfully takes practice, you know, in childhood.
Speaker 1: Depending on your childhood, it may have been easier to
Speaker 1: be known to you, but most certainly in adulthood, after
Speaker 1: we've been carrying and contorting and also being you know,
Speaker 1: put into so many boxes or programmed with.
Speaker 4: So many things.
Speaker 1: It's like joy takes repetition, you know, and it's usually
Speaker 1: very incremental. It's like giving yourself this space and the
Speaker 1: trust to feel like really small things are enough, or
Speaker 1: that you can smile with some of the smaller things,
Speaker 1: and then that creates the space. And I think it's
Speaker 1: important that we really start looking at the effects of
Speaker 1: some of the things that didn't get our consent, like
Speaker 1: the impact social media would actually have on us, right
Speaker 1: and like what it actually does to you biologically, into
Speaker 1: your brain.
Speaker 4: A lot of people have been used to.
Speaker 1: Performative joy because they may not have had access to
Speaker 1: know it otherwise. And performative joy is like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: put up the big post, or I gave this speech,
Speaker 1: or I had the party, or I'm having this big
Speaker 1: way that I'm sharing. And it's like, you'll notice if
Speaker 1: joy is some of the work you're being invited into
Speaker 1: if the way you're presenting your happiness isn't the way
Speaker 1: that you're actually feeling it in your inner world. And
Speaker 1: I think there's no judgment around that, but it is
Speaker 1: really valuable information to notice. Am I like celebrating and
Speaker 1: big and I'm having all the pictures with the yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, like all the smiles and the but like, inside,
Speaker 1: I actually don't feel that proud. I don't feel that scene.
Speaker 1: I don't feel like this is enough. Why hasn't this
Speaker 1: fixed everything? You know, it's important to notice those differences
Speaker 1: and our body and in our outward experience.
Speaker 2: And sometimes if you've only had those those moments, you
Speaker 2: actually don't realize that you don't know what joy actually
Speaker 2: feels like. And so having those big moments, those moments
Speaker 2: where you're like, oh, this must be what it is.
Speaker 2: This must be what joy actually is, because that's what
Speaker 2: I see and that's the way that I've created it
Speaker 2: in my life. But then when you experience those, you know,
Speaker 2: when you said the little moments I was telling I
Speaker 2: went for a walk yesterday night. I was feeling a
Speaker 2: bit blah, and I went for a walk last night,
Speaker 2: and I realized, no matter what I tried to bring
Speaker 2: of momentary joy into my day before that, when I
Speaker 2: went on the walk, I was like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: the bird's chirping bringing me so much joy, or oh
Speaker 2: my goodness, sing the sunset is filling my heart in
Speaker 2: a way nothing else does. And so I think you're right.
Speaker 2: It's so much about the small moments, and we think
Speaker 2: it's about the big moments until you start actually becoming,
Speaker 2: and I think it's presence. Like I've had friends who've
Speaker 2: been through I would say more than most people have
Speaker 2: gone through, and they remind me that every single day
Speaker 2: they've just making a choice to feel joy because they've
Speaker 2: had to make it a choice they could have chosen
Speaker 2: not to, but every single day they've chosen too. And
Speaker 2: so whether it is in a little piece of their
Speaker 2: morning moment where they look outside and they see the sunrise,
Speaker 2: to making eye contact with someone on the street, it's
Speaker 2: like all those present moments allow you to opt in
Speaker 2: for joy.
Speaker 1: I love that opped in because it really is about
Speaker 1: how do you figure out what gives.
Speaker 4: You a private smile?
Speaker 1: And so many of us look at happiness, enjoy or
Speaker 1: goodness about there being some outward catalysts, most usually another
Speaker 1: person right that is the reason or the person that brings.
Speaker 4: That to you.
Speaker 1: But it's so incredibly, incredibly powerful and empowering to be
Speaker 1: able to bring your self pleasure.
Speaker 2: And joy on your own, yeah, and not be relying
Speaker 2: on external people or things.
Speaker 4: That are temporary.
Speaker 2: You talk so much about, of course healing in your book.
Speaker 2: How can someone who still feels like they're in survival mode,
Speaker 2: Let's say they've listened to this up till this point
Speaker 2: and they're like, oh my god, that's me. I actually
Speaker 2: don't know what joy feels like. How can someone be
Speaker 2: in survival mode, be or a low place in their life,
Speaker 2: but still start their healing journey? Like what does that
Speaker 2: look like?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it looks like sometimes just letting yourself
Speaker 1: break a little bit, you know. I think that's the
Speaker 1: thing that we tend to avoid for so many like
Speaker 1: valid reasons, like you have to keep going and the
Speaker 1: world doesn't stop just because something is happening.
Speaker 4: To you, or if you have children, it's like.
Speaker 1: Trying to keep your spirit fortified enough to like be
Speaker 1: who they need you to be first, you know. So
Speaker 1: I think just really kind of being able to settle
Speaker 1: into observing the fact that something hurts in general, that
Speaker 1: first step is so massive. You know, no one wants
Speaker 1: to admit their broken or that someone else harm them
Speaker 1: or hurt them, or that they're not where they want
Speaker 1: to be in life.
Speaker 4: Right, so we do.
Speaker 1: All these protective measures, but like nothing comes of that, right,
Speaker 1: Like you're just more stuck and you can look up
Speaker 1: in two decades have passed and there's been no progress,
Speaker 1: you know, So I think that kind of just willing.
Speaker 1: You don't have to say that out loud, you don't
Speaker 1: have to wear it as some kind of badge in
Speaker 1: front of everyone. But being able to create honest dialogue
Speaker 1: with you inside is a powerful first step. Connecting to
Speaker 1: those tiny joys is a powerful second step. Just beginning
Speaker 1: to temper yourself into and see how much you can tolerate. Ye,
Speaker 1: you might notice that like joy can really trigger you,
Speaker 1: and it can bring forward a lot of sadness. Honestly,
Speaker 1: it can bring forward a lot of anger. When you
Speaker 1: start to realize that you actually are lovable and it's
Speaker 1: not hard to do. It can be kind of shocking
Speaker 1: to your system and maybe remind you of ways that
Speaker 1: you have fought to earn love or earn support.
Speaker 4: Over the years.
Speaker 1: And then I think, you know, the biggest thing and
Speaker 1: this is the piece that everyone a boys and I
Speaker 1: have to say, like I specifically wrote this book for
Speaker 1: the over intellectualizers, for the people that are addicted to
Speaker 1: self help books, right, Like I have just between clients,
Speaker 1: between friends, between you know, different junctures in my own journey.
Speaker 1: I'll see people that have walls like a library, right,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, lean walls or if you bring up you know,
Speaker 1: something like breathwork, Oh yeah, I know all that. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: whim hoff or yama yup, yup, yup, you know, and
Speaker 1: it's like, yes, that is the information and do you
Speaker 1: do it?
Speaker 4: Yes, right, Becauyes that's the piece.
Speaker 1: Like nothing changes, no amount, and there's so many phenomenal
Speaker 1: resources and modalities and each of us need different things,
Speaker 1: but there's no amount of talk therapy that is going
Speaker 1: to change your experiences in life. Only somatic processing can
Speaker 1: do that. It's about integrating the two. It's bringing what
Speaker 1: you're learning, what you've recognized, what you've named, what you
Speaker 1: finally understood happened or didn't happen, and then being willing
Speaker 1: to be in practice with your body when the triggers
Speaker 1: of those things inevitably come up and so practice is
Speaker 1: the only way to change your life long term in
Speaker 1: a sustainable way. And I think the lens that I
Speaker 1: try to look at that through in my book is
Speaker 1: really seeing those practices that can feel triggering and feel
Speaker 1: irritating and angering, is to make it something that is
Speaker 1: a lot more devotional. It's less about checking boxes. It's
Speaker 1: less about you know, okay, my daily practice, my self
Speaker 1: care practice I do, this is Jeff, And it's more
Speaker 1: about like, I am so freaking devoted to the beauty
Speaker 1: in my life. Like I am so devoted to the
Speaker 1: fact that I deserve to feel good about myself and
Speaker 1: my life. I deserve to have a healthy body. I
Speaker 1: deserve to have a heart that feels open and filled
Speaker 1: with light.
Speaker 4: I deserve to have a brain that.
Speaker 1: Isn't ruminating in thought or telling me things that feel
Speaker 1: that make me feel bad about myself. Like and only
Speaker 1: kind of an energy of not proving, not discipline, but devotion,
Speaker 1: I think can really bring that forward.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that you said that. And when you
Speaker 2: said the intellectuals, I always remember there's knowledge and then
Speaker 2: there's wisdom, which comes with experience. And I remember my
Speaker 2: spokesure teacher once said that when you accumulate too much knowledge,
Speaker 2: like when you keep building and building and just grabbing
Speaker 2: and grabbing and constantly learning and learning, it actually builds
Speaker 2: more ego in you than it does goodness, because you
Speaker 2: end up feeling like the Noah instead of the doer
Speaker 2: and the person that is experiencing. And so he always
Speaker 2: said that when you learn, then there's a process of learning,
Speaker 2: but what comes with learning is sharing. What comes with
Speaker 2: learning is doing. And so if you're just harboring knowledge,
Speaker 2: actually that builds ego, which is the opposite of probably
Speaker 2: what you're trying to do when you're learning all these
Speaker 2: self help books and right, I think that's so interesting.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just so deeply true, and it's all
Speaker 1: just theory until you put it into practice. We can
Speaker 1: all say we're a lot of things and believe that
Speaker 1: and have the knowledge that enforces that, but until you
Speaker 1: practice it, it's just the theory. You have to prove
Speaker 1: the theory and the hypothesis by doing and devotion.
Speaker 2: I recently started, you know, when I was thinking about
Speaker 2: why I do, whether it's physical wellness practices or mental
Speaker 2: or spiritual things that I grew up doing. My mom
Speaker 2: taught me how to do or all these different things.
Speaker 2: I realize that sometimes the thing missing was this idea
Speaker 2: that actually every single thing is a gift. So if
Speaker 2: I think of my body as a gift, if I
Speaker 2: think of everything that's coming into my life as a gift,
Speaker 2: how can I not gift from God? Then actually looking
Speaker 2: after myself is a devotional practice. And so when you are,
Speaker 2: of course you're devoted to yourself, but at the same time,
Speaker 2: it becomes even a little bit easier to be devotional
Speaker 2: towards your body, to be devotional towards your heart when
Speaker 2: you think of it as a gift of God, when
Speaker 2: you think of it as a gift from the universe,
Speaker 2: whatever words or phrases connect to you most. But I
Speaker 2: do think when you realize that it's not yours and
Speaker 2: it's something that has been given to you, then you
Speaker 2: look after a little bit more. It's like when something's
Speaker 2: given to you free, or you feel like it's yours,
Speaker 2: you probably look after it a lot less than if
Speaker 2: your mum gave you something that was like an heirloom
Speaker 2: that you're looking after and it's precious. And so when
Speaker 2: you start thinking about yourself in that way, it doesn't
Speaker 2: then feel selfish. Self love and self care doesn't just
Speaker 2: feel like you know, buzzwords that people are using. It's like,
Speaker 2: oh no, like every part of me has been gifted
Speaker 2: to me, so I have to look after it, and
Speaker 2: the practices are the ways to look after it.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just so incredibly beautiful, you know, and
Speaker 1: just so deeply true, and even that it takes time,
Speaker 1: you know, And so I think it's like so many
Speaker 1: of us and myself included, for so long it's like
Speaker 1: an awareness will come to you and you know.
Speaker 4: That's the path, right, but it just takes so.
Speaker 1: Long and slow work, right, and it takes even the
Speaker 1: practice of believing the thought in addition to the practices,
Speaker 1: because you know, I think, just something that we can
Speaker 1: and that I hope more people really kind of look
Speaker 1: at and open their hearts too, is like we have
Speaker 1: our individual experiences and everyone is walking into the room
Speaker 1: with something that we don't know about, and you know,
Speaker 1: there really is just in a planet of nine billion,
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of people that have had the experience
Speaker 1: of never having love reflected to them or role modeled
Speaker 1: for them. And it's very hard to sit in that
Speaker 1: truth because it's counterintuitive to what this country is built on,
Speaker 1: this belief in family or you know, these kind of
Speaker 1: ideals that we share, but not everybody lives these, right,
Speaker 1: And so if you never had real love or acceptance
Speaker 1: reflected to you, that might be a barrier on why
Speaker 1: it's harder for you to connect to an ideology of
Speaker 1: self love, even though to your mind that makes perfect
Speaker 1: sense and you wish you could. And I think this
Speaker 1: book is really written for that too. It's written for
Speaker 1: people who may have CPTSD, who may have a lot
Speaker 1: of complex madic experiences over time, and it's not just
Speaker 1: the one thing that happened to you once.
Speaker 4: But there's space for that.
Speaker 1: But it's also maybe an assordid amount of big tea
Speaker 1: and little t traumas mixed in with the overall frictions
Speaker 1: of life, mixed in with the overall collective grievings of life.
Speaker 1: But you know, for anybody that feels because like, for example,
Speaker 1: I remember I first started meditating and that made a
Speaker 1: lot of sense to my body. Yeah, and that brought
Speaker 1: me a lot of relief. And I think when you
Speaker 1: come into that world, it seems like the next natural
Speaker 1: step would be like yoga, right, and I remember the
Speaker 1: first couple of times I tried to do yoga, it
Speaker 1: angered me to such a degree and I couldn't understand why,
Speaker 1: and I felt so annoyed, so frustrated, so judgmental about
Speaker 1: other people in class with me and the teacher, and
Speaker 1: it's just like, what are you people talking about? And like,
Speaker 1: my body doesn't do that, and you know. And so
Speaker 1: I think for a lot of people that have had
Speaker 1: challenging experiences, there is a barrier to entering the wellness
Speaker 1: world if you don't understand that grieving is a part
Speaker 1: of this process, you know, and all of it. This
Speaker 1: practice means the beginning of your practice is probably lots
Speaker 1: of good cries, you know, lots of anger maybe, right,
Speaker 1: lots of rage, sacred rage, lots of confusion, yes, And
Speaker 1: then slowly that lifts, and then you get to the
Speaker 1: next layer, and then that lifts, and then you go
Speaker 1: higher and higher and higher. But I think starting to
Speaker 1: teach really showed me the need, and it really showed
Speaker 1: me how much I wanted my career in that space
Speaker 1: to be rooted in trauma and formed healing and in
Speaker 1: using language in a particular way and being able to
Speaker 1: be slower with people and give a lot of people
Speaker 1: step by step explanation. Like when I came in to
Speaker 1: even my first retreat, you know, over fifteen years ago,
Speaker 1: I kept saying, but how, and the response reflected back
Speaker 1: to me kept being like, you're in your own way, Just.
Speaker 4: Be free, just give it over, surrender.
Speaker 1: Not everyone knew that I had several people in my
Speaker 1: life that had been murdered at various times in my life,
Speaker 1: or that I had bared witness to a lot of
Speaker 1: abuse or pain, or had a lot of harmful abusive
Speaker 1: experiences in my own life.
Speaker 4: So without that.
Speaker 1: Information, you could cause me a lot of harm, even
Speaker 1: if you mean well, because you're not aware that people
Speaker 1: are having experiences that you aren't.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's so true, And I think what you said
Speaker 2: about it takes time. I think there's one thing about
Speaker 2: knowing that grief is part of it, but also realizing
Speaker 2: that the goal is not onward and upward, it is
Speaker 2: ebbing and flowing like you're constantly in this cycle. And
Speaker 2: in a tradition it says it takes lifetimes, not just
Speaker 2: one lifetime. It can take lifetimes to actually like you know,
Speaker 2: imagine well in all culature says we have had so
Speaker 2: many lifetimes. So imagine you're carrying the weight of all
Speaker 2: those lifetimes plus this one lifetime that you have accumulated.
Speaker 2: Every single thing that you've allowed into your senses, or
Speaker 2: not even allowed sometimes that have just come through your senses.
Speaker 2: All of that has left these little imprints called some
Speaker 2: scarras like these little imprints. And the more you emphasize
Speaker 2: them in different ways, the more I guess, the more
Speaker 2: you water them, the more you step into them, the
Speaker 2: deeper they get. And so then you're carrying them, and
Speaker 2: it gets harder and harder to make it through. And
Speaker 2: then what you said about it coming to the surface,
Speaker 2: I noticed that so much when I came into my practice,
Speaker 2: And actually, I think that is the point. The point
Speaker 2: of it is, you are unraveling. When you start your practices,
Speaker 2: you are bringing to surface all the things that you
Speaker 2: have buried and kept in a little cage in your
Speaker 2: heart and kept in a cage in your body. And
Speaker 2: so I remember when I started doing my meditation practice
Speaker 2: and even a physical yoga practice, I found it so uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: And not only did I find aches and pains that
Speaker 2: I didn't know existed because of emotions trapped in different places.
Speaker 2: I remember I had one I did my yoga teacher training,
Speaker 2: and in that we did a whole day of hip
Speaker 2: flexa work and I was falling, Oh my god, balling
Speaker 2: and at the same time so uncomfortable physically. And if
Speaker 2: anyone who doesn't know, they say that hips is where
Speaker 2: women carry a lot of their emotions absolute and so
Speaker 2: physically emotionally everything just comes to the surface. And in
Speaker 2: the vadas it talks about it being like a mirror.
Speaker 2: So as soon as you start these practices, it's like
Speaker 2: a dusty mirror. And the more that you do your
Speaker 2: meditation practice, the more you keep stay consistent with it,
Speaker 2: the more there is repetition. You're slowly wiping off, wiping off,
Speaker 2: wiping off eventually to be able to see your true self.
Speaker 2: So but then to see your true self, you have
Speaker 2: to make it through the layers that have been accumulated
Speaker 2: through everything that's happened.
Speaker 4: So and that's why it's okay if it takes your
Speaker 4: whole life, you know it's meant to be.
Speaker 2: It's like you don't meditate for like a week and
Speaker 2: you're like, okay, great, I've done the world. It's like
Speaker 2: it's not a practice for a short period. It is
Speaker 2: a commitment. It's a life commitment. Yeah, it's a life commitment.
Speaker 1: It's so funny when you said that right now, it's
Speaker 1: like and I say this with a lot of love
Speaker 1: and joy, because I think this is so many of us.
Speaker 1: At first when you start the work, right, you go
Speaker 1: to a therapy session, and then I remember one girlfriend
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, so I had a therapy session and
Speaker 1: I've done the work.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like you've done some like yes.
Speaker 1: Like beautiful, it is the start, but like that's not
Speaker 1: how it works, you know, Like and I think you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: just like to your point, it's like you get.
Speaker 4: To a layer.
Speaker 1: And one of the stories I shared in my book
Speaker 1: is like I remember going to a teacher and I
Speaker 1: had been working on this one particular kind of wound
Speaker 1: just for like ten years, right, and I felt like
Speaker 1: I was in just such a wise, beautiful space with it,
Speaker 1: and I was in this lecture and I just like
Speaker 1: I got so upset, I got so just so much
Speaker 1: charge filled my body and I'm just crying. And I
Speaker 1: waited and waited, and I went up to the teacher
Speaker 1: and I was just like I don't understand, like I've
Speaker 1: already healed this.
Speaker 4: Why am I crying again? Why am I feeling this again?
Speaker 1: And like, you just looked at me with so much
Speaker 1: wisdom and grace, And I remember he looked at He said,
Speaker 1: you have. You've done so much work, Debbie, and that's
Speaker 1: why you're being invited to revisit it now again and
Speaker 1: see it in this way from a new layer, from
Speaker 1: a new perspective. And that's really what it was. It
Speaker 1: wasn't that I hadn't done the work. It wasn't even
Speaker 1: that it's still really hurt or bothered me. It was like,
Speaker 1: now I get the opportunity to see how this particular
Speaker 1: pattern shows up in this particular place, and like, Wow,
Speaker 1: how can I love that too?
Speaker 4: How can I observe that too?
Speaker 2: Wow? What do you think is a lie or like
Speaker 2: something that people tell themselves, especially women? I'd say that
Speaker 2: blocks their healing, like something that's out in the world
Speaker 2: where people end up believing but that actually ends up
Speaker 2: blocking their healing.
Speaker 4: Hmmm, oh my god.
Speaker 1: That you're supposed to be taking care of everyone else,
Speaker 1: you know. I think that in so many ways that
Speaker 1: shows up and that kind of programming, it's so deeply
Speaker 1: ingrained in us for so many centuries, so we're going
Speaker 1: to be revisiting it all the time, right. So it's
Speaker 1: like sometimes that shows up in a relationship if you
Speaker 1: are trying to save the person you're with, or if
Speaker 1: you think that you're the righteous one that just knows
Speaker 1: how to hold pain different, so it's about you doing
Speaker 1: and giving to them.
Speaker 4: You got to look at that.
Speaker 1: It also can very sophisticatedly show up in areas where
Speaker 1: you should be devoted to others, like motherhood, right, but
Speaker 1: anything can be used as a tool of avoidance, So
Speaker 1: especially with women, any kind of thing where there might
Speaker 1: be this underlying.
Speaker 4: Edge of self sacrifice.
Speaker 1: As martyrdom, not as like sometimes you got to do
Speaker 1: hard things and I'm showing up with what that needs
Speaker 1: right now. But then I'm going to feel if you're
Speaker 1: never feeling, you're telling yourself a story and you're actually
Speaker 1: avoiding what you should be doing. But for women, I
Speaker 1: think more than any it's it's very easy for us
Speaker 1: to use so many beautiful things as a tool of avoidance,
Speaker 1: but it's still going to sink true no matter how
Speaker 1: you try to dress it up, right, Like your life
Speaker 1: at the end of it is still going to be
Speaker 1: a sum of your experiences, and so.
Speaker 4: You can take.
Speaker 1: Decades to pretend that that's not happening, but at some
Speaker 1: point you'll be confronted with it because you're here to
Speaker 1: do the work. You're here in this lifetime to do
Speaker 1: as much as you can to clear as much of
Speaker 1: that karma as possible. Gotta you gotta get in, You
Speaker 1: gotta get your hands dirty.
Speaker 2: Have you had seen I mean, I know you see clients,
Speaker 2: and you've seen so many people of your time and
Speaker 2: help so many people. What are some of the practices?
Speaker 2: Are there any that you've noticed, no matter who it is,
Speaker 2: it's helped. And if someone's starting their journey, can you
Speaker 2: give us like two or three practical ways to get
Speaker 2: into a practice?
Speaker 4: You know what I would really say?
Speaker 1: And a lot of a lot of my work is
Speaker 1: really catered through a trauma informed lens always and forever.
Speaker 4: So some of these things may even be things, especially.
Speaker 1: If you are like voracious about your self care, that
Speaker 1: you've heard of or that you know. And it's not
Speaker 1: about reinventing the wheel because all of this, as you
Speaker 1: know deeply well, it's like so much.
Speaker 2: Is has existed ancient.
Speaker 1: It's just so many ancient all of it, like, none
Speaker 1: of it needs to be reinvented. God has always provided
Speaker 1: since as long as humanity has. But it's about how
Speaker 1: present you can be with each of the things that
Speaker 1: you might come across. And so I found that in
Speaker 1: my work because when I first started teaching meditation, especially
Speaker 1: in my community, it was like I'd ask everyone to
Speaker 1: close their eyes, and I would look out and everyone's
Speaker 1: eyes would be wide open and scared.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I'd be like, and now gently close your eyes for
Speaker 1: meditation people, yeah, you know.
Speaker 4: And I had to really study.
Speaker 1: That and understand what was happening and the deeper fear,
Speaker 1: the maybe previous experiences of not having safety right, because
Speaker 1: not everyone gets to grow up or be in environments
Speaker 1: where you can close your eyes around people, because what
Speaker 1: may happen right if you're not on guard, or if
Speaker 1: you're not looking around and constantly noticing and testing the
Speaker 1: emotions of people in the room.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: And so to that extent, a way that I found
Speaker 1: to help people, especially if getting still getting quiet as
Speaker 1: hard would be to really work with a lot of
Speaker 1: hand placements, and one of the very first is to
Speaker 1: feel what supportive touch feels like through your own hand.
Speaker 1: So we might hear certain things like place your hand
Speaker 1: on your heart, right, but notice how you're doing that
Speaker 1: when you do, and I always try to recommend for people,
Speaker 1: try to really get that meaty base of your palm
Speaker 1: that has stability and get it right in the center
Speaker 1: of your breastbone and feel the pressure of it touching
Speaker 1: your breastbone. And notice how much pressure you like.
Speaker 4: Is a harder press.
Speaker 1: That makes you feel like you're being hugged or being held.
Speaker 1: Is that what allows you to feel safe? Is it
Speaker 1: a lighter kind of more tender, looser touch that's just
Speaker 1: like your fingertips grazing. Is that how you feel most
Speaker 1: supported and safe? And just beginning to notice the nuance
Speaker 1: of how your own body is reacting to practices, but
Speaker 1: knowing that you can make the adjustment and do it
Speaker 1: privately right and daily practice with yourself. Something that I
Speaker 1: lean into in the book is like a lot of mudras,
Speaker 1: which is, like you know, Jess, like the most delicious.
Speaker 4: Ancient wisdom to me.
Speaker 1: It's like it is going to the er for me,
Speaker 1: you know, like bringing your hands and kind of advancing
Speaker 1: your meditation practice to include other things that give you
Speaker 1: awareness about how your body actually feels.
Speaker 2: Could you explain to people with moodras A and yes, don't.
Speaker 1: Well, so mudras are I guess in the simplest context
Speaker 1: hand placements that you would use different kind of symbolic
Speaker 1: hand gestures that you use in your meditation practice. And
Speaker 1: so one of the base ones is what you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of people would call like nonmstay hands or
Speaker 1: but it's the angali mudra. So it's your hands and
Speaker 1: what in the Western world you'd call prayer position. But
Speaker 1: having them here and then connecting you know, the inner
Speaker 1: parts the backs of your thumbs into the center of
Speaker 1: your chest and what that does. That actually brings your
Speaker 1: body into a couple different spaces, into a space of gratitude, yes,
Speaker 1: as we know it, but also into.
Speaker 4: Space of surrender.
Speaker 1: And it's one of the most grounding hand placements you
Speaker 1: can bring, especially for grief as an early beginning way
Speaker 1: to connect.
Speaker 4: But you can even experience that in a few different ways.
Speaker 1: Kind of in front of you, in front of your
Speaker 1: solar plexus, point it outwards. You can just have it
Speaker 1: kind of gently levitating almost in front of your chest,
Speaker 1: or you can push those thumbs into your chest. But
Speaker 1: those are all varying degrees of how to experience one
Speaker 1: particular mudra that is meant to kind of aid you
Speaker 1: in a lot of different ways that you may want
Speaker 1: or need to heal.
Speaker 2: I just want to add that Davey has is so sweet.
Speaker 2: She's actually come here with her arm post surgery, and
Speaker 2: so if you're watching this, she has a ceiling opinno,
Speaker 2: but she's still trying to show us all the moves
Speaker 2: she's ceiling. It is honestly so beautiful.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I love mooders, and you know, whether it's moodras or
Speaker 2: whether it's hand positions. I remember when I started doing
Speaker 2: kirtan and if anyone who doesn't know what cyratin is,
Speaker 2: it's a beautiful montra meditation, singing practice, singing mantras together
Speaker 2: it is. It is just beautiful people dancing it. They
Speaker 2: cry in it. It's just releases so many emotions. But
Speaker 2: I remember when I started going to these curitans and
Speaker 2: people would have their arms up in their air and
Speaker 2: like literally like this, like singing their hearts out with
Speaker 2: their arms up in the air, and I was like,
Speaker 2: that felt really uncomfortable to me. I was like, I'm
Speaker 2: not going to do that. That seems like I'm so into it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's a bit muchs Like I haven't felt
Speaker 2: that you're wiving. And then I remember at one point
Speaker 2: after I went to quite a few, I leaned into
Speaker 2: it and I was like, oh my gosh, like the
Speaker 2: feeling of having your hands up in surrender of like
Speaker 2: it just it invokes a different feeling. And then we
Speaker 2: also have the practice of bowing down and putting our
Speaker 2: head to earth as part of a respect when you
Speaker 2: walk into a temple or when I walk into my
Speaker 2: altar at home. And there's something that you feel when
Speaker 2: you create these these repetitions of movements in your body
Speaker 2: that are connected to something. And so whether it's your
Speaker 2: arms up in the air and surrender, whether it's bowing
Speaker 2: down and humility, it's like these little positions, these little
Speaker 2: hand movements, these these the way that you position your body.
Speaker 2: You can link that to an emotion that you feel,
Speaker 2: you can link that to a quality that you want
Speaker 2: to invoke. Yes, and I find that really beautiful that
Speaker 2: you know, and that's that body mind connection that you
Speaker 2: can create in the same way as you can create
Speaker 2: spaces that feel a certain way in your home or
Speaker 2: or in your life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like what I'm hearing in what you're saying too,
Speaker 1: It's like it's invoking a reverence for your human experience, right,
Speaker 1: like through the things that you want to receive, through
Speaker 1: the things that you've already walked through powerfully.
Speaker 4: It's like, you know much.
Speaker 1: It's kind of similar to like in like Western churches,
Speaker 1: like praise and worship, right And I remember I'd walk
Speaker 1: into a church at some point and you'd see people
Speaker 1: like running back and forth or just hands up or
Speaker 1: just on the floor wailing, and I'd be like.
Speaker 4: Okay, you know, all right, but will I look silly?
Speaker 4: Will I look?
Speaker 1: And then the connection happens between you and the divine
Speaker 1: you and God, you and your higher belief and then.
Speaker 4: You get it right and you're like, oh, it is.
Speaker 1: My honor to be on my knees, like it is
Speaker 1: my honor to throw my hands up to seem to profess,
Speaker 1: you know. And just one small thing I forgot to
Speaker 1: say about those mood that is, it's so it's also
Speaker 1: opening your energy channels and your body and so different
Speaker 1: ones that I feature in the book are really meant
Speaker 1: to speak to different things that you may have barriers
Speaker 1: up against or may want to invite more healing into
Speaker 1: based on how the energy changes within your body as
Speaker 1: you're meditating, based on the position that your hands are in.
Speaker 2: And I just realized we got into this question by
Speaker 2: me asking you what practices can people do to actually
Speaker 2: start their healing journey, And so I want to just
Speaker 2: recap on that you recommended Mooderus. While you're doing your practice.
Speaker 4: Is practice touching yourselves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so that's also like not just like the
Speaker 1: hand on the chest, but I found that something really
Speaker 1: powerful for somatic processing, especially done over the time, like
Speaker 1: I probably dedicated two years to this without ceasing once ever,
Speaker 1: is slow stretching with your body every single day, morning
Speaker 1: and night. And not just stretch that's like focused on
Speaker 1: if you're somebody that has an active body and works
Speaker 1: out right, but like really deepening into slow stretch swinging
Speaker 1: your hips as you shared, you know, women, we store
Speaker 1: so much in our hips. It is believed, especially if
Speaker 1: you follow some of the thought around epigenetics, that a
Speaker 1: lot of trauma, sometimes sexual trauma, if that's been a
Speaker 1: part of your path, get stored here. And so if
Speaker 1: you can't kind of sit with ease cross leg that
Speaker 1: could be depending on other medical things that only you
Speaker 1: know about in your body that could be one of
Speaker 1: the things that wants to be released is some trauma
Speaker 1: that could be stored there. But it's our hips also,
Speaker 1: our bone marrow, and our hips is where our immunity
Speaker 1: is built. So when we don't have a lot of
Speaker 1: flexibility in our hips, or we don't we're not really
Speaker 1: present and aware of it, you could find yourself getting
Speaker 1: sick more often or just having longer recovery times.
Speaker 4: So swaying with your body.
Speaker 1: Stretching, moving, bending, folding, you know, all those things also
Speaker 1: help to completely release stress, get you ready for bed, naturally,
Speaker 1: regulate your vagus, nerve, and your nervous system, and those
Speaker 1: are all necessary parts of healing. You can't heal if
Speaker 1: you don't learn and practice regulating your nervous system. And
Speaker 1: all of these practices lend themselves to doing that.
Speaker 2: That's beautiful. Yeah, I need to do a lot more
Speaker 2: stretching in my life, honestly, but yeah, I've been. It
Speaker 2: feels good, it does. I'm definitely trying to swap out
Speaker 2: some of the higher intensity things that I do with
Speaker 2: I feel like that's what my body's been calling for,
Speaker 2: Like slower movements. You know, yeah, yeah, you talk about
Speaker 2: softening and slowing down in your book. What does that
Speaker 2: really look like for a woman who's so used to
Speaker 2: hustle mode, which many of us are.
Speaker 4: Oh God, we have had listen.
Speaker 1: Way too many women have been worshiping at the Girl
Speaker 1: Boss Shrine for way too long. And I believe that
Speaker 1: some of the best ways to soften, especially as a woman,
Speaker 1: is to look at things through a few lenses. Look
Speaker 1: at what your unique body needs, what your life experiences
Speaker 1: have led you to, but then also look at you know,
Speaker 1: we're all always at the mercy of the collective consciousness
Speaker 1: that we're in, right, no matter how aware we are,
Speaker 1: no matter how kind of pristine we may be in
Speaker 1: our own energy, Like there are nine billion people on
Speaker 1: the planet, we are going to.
Speaker 4: Be affected by whatever the majority of.
Speaker 1: Consciousness is, no matter what, And that tends to be low, right,
Speaker 1: It tends to be a lower vibration of kind of
Speaker 1: global collective consciousness. And so I found that it can
Speaker 1: be especially for people you know, who are more intellectual
Speaker 1: or would consider themselves intellectualizers, it can be really powerful
Speaker 1: to really study the conditioning at play that might be
Speaker 1: keeping you from getting those different access points. And so
Speaker 1: you know, if we look at what life has been
Speaker 1: like in the last five, ten, fifteen years, a lot
Speaker 1: of what was like girl boss culture or this kind
Speaker 1: of really the truth of it, was about empowering women
Speaker 1: to take up space and to take up position as
Speaker 1: we should and as we've often been denied through various systems.
Speaker 1: But it's not through replicating what men do and making
Speaker 1: it pink right like. It's not through like any of
Speaker 1: those kind of systems and just making it yours and
Speaker 1: sounding powerful while doing it. I think that created a
Speaker 1: lot of performance culture that wasn'tuine empowerment, and it's left
Speaker 1: a lot of women confused about how do I actually
Speaker 1: reclaim the feeling? And we're each both, we're each masculine
Speaker 1: and feminine, but how do I reclaim the femininity inside
Speaker 1: of myself? No matter how you identify, we all have
Speaker 1: both of those energies, And so I think some of
Speaker 1: the softening is really around kind of disconnecting from performance,
Speaker 1: because that's what greater societal flow wants all of us
Speaker 1: to do. It wants us all to be earning, It
Speaker 1: wants us all to be performing, It wants us all
Speaker 1: to be proving all the time, and so you would
Speaker 1: have to strip some of those programmed beliefs and some
Speaker 1: of that mentality in addition to kind of being present
Speaker 1: with like what is the truth of myself as a woman?
Speaker 4: What do I like and dislike?
Speaker 1: And you know, and that takes time, and that's like
Speaker 1: a beautiful unfolding that can't just be done on your
Speaker 1: first retreat or your first you know, a weekend of
Speaker 1: vision boarding. That helps, but it's settling, it's it's disconnecting
Speaker 1: from the way other people project on us or tell
Speaker 1: us to do anything and saying, you know, what actually
Speaker 1: does feel good and pleasurable and safe inside of my
Speaker 1: own body?
Speaker 4: And like, how can I do more of that? And
Speaker 4: how can I do more of that? Just for me?
Speaker 4: And not everyone even needs to know about all of that.
Speaker 2: You know, if someone is trying to move into the
Speaker 2: soft girl era, yes, what would that kind of day
Speaker 2: look like? Like what kind of things would you recommend
Speaker 2: they do throughout the day that allows them to come
Speaker 2: back into that space?
Speaker 4: Oh? My god, dis question.
Speaker 1: Oh, I would say the first thing that I've found
Speaker 1: really really.
Speaker 4: Helps is to create a breath work practice.
Speaker 1: And I know now that is on trend, but it
Speaker 1: is ancient, you know, it is just it is life changing.
Speaker 1: It's life changing, it's it's profound, it's miraculous. You know,
Speaker 1: it's not just you know some okay I'm feeling oh okay, No,
Speaker 1: it's like you know, it's like ah, Like notice how
Speaker 1: you can even open your mouth on a release, and
Speaker 1: like how much you can soften your jaw and your
Speaker 1: neck and your body, And like, how do I slowly
Speaker 1: build that connection inside so that I don't just feel
Speaker 1: breath in my head or in my chest, like I
Speaker 1: feel it in the depth of my womb, you know,
Speaker 1: like I can now actually feel it in my knee
Speaker 1: that's hurting, or I can feel it in the tips
Speaker 1: of my toes. You know, working with breath work changes
Speaker 1: the way your life feels, the way your body feels,
Speaker 1: It changes the way pleasure feels, It changes the way
Speaker 1: that joy feels. And so I think for everyone, but
Speaker 1: really especially women who move really fast and do so
Speaker 1: much for others, there is nothing that heals you more.
Speaker 1: There is nothing that grounds you more that there is
Speaker 1: nothing that allows you to regain agency in your body more.
Speaker 4: Than the breath.
Speaker 1: So that first and foremost is just that is my
Speaker 1: practice throughout all day, every day. And you know what,
Speaker 1: I think you find when you do connect to that
Speaker 1: practice and really like settle into it, you find that
Speaker 1: your body eventually learns how to do that without you
Speaker 1: thinking about it, right, Like I can have a charged
Speaker 1: interaction and no longer do I have to stop and
Speaker 1: think like wow, I should do some breath work because
Speaker 1: that was heavy, or do I have to say, okay,
Speaker 1: let me pause and breathe. It's like you could be
Speaker 1: talking to me right now and I'd be.
Speaker 2: Like, your body's reminded and constantly realizes that that is
Speaker 2: your coping mechanism.
Speaker 1: And I think for everyone that is like that is
Speaker 1: the piece that you can really track, like just how
Speaker 1: much you've done for yourself when you're not working to
Speaker 1: do the work right right, Like your body just remembers that,
Speaker 1: like this is what I need and this is how
Speaker 1: I need it, and here you.
Speaker 2: Go, Oh my god, beautiful. So breath work. It YEA
Speaker 2: sounds simple, but so beyond life changing. I can say
Speaker 2: the same to myself. I feel like breath has allowed
Speaker 2: me to become so many things that I didn't think
Speaker 2: I could be. Through relieving anxiety in the moment or
Speaker 2: long term, or in moments where I feel any kind
Speaker 2: of emotion, any kind of emotion. I remember my yoga
Speaker 2: teach training. They said, breath is the anchor between your
Speaker 2: body and your mind. So every single time you're trying
Speaker 2: to your mind's running in the past, in the future,
Speaker 2: bringing it back to the present just with a simple breath.
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh my gosh, that is incredible.
Speaker 2: When I started practicing, I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: it's actually true. And then in all those hard moments
Speaker 2: whenever I felt yesterday when I was feeling like I
Speaker 2: wanted to punch someone, I literally all I had to
Speaker 2: do was go outside and take deep breaths and that
Speaker 2: was it. You need to tell anyone about it, you
Speaker 2: need to talk about it. I didn't need to actually
Speaker 2: punch someone, which is great.
Speaker 1: Great, Well I had to do because like we need
Speaker 1: you free, like you're doing God's work.
Speaker 4: We need you free.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. All I need to do is take a
Speaker 2: few breaths, and how be you us free? You can
Speaker 2: do it yourself. Yeah, And you're in control of it.
Speaker 1: You're in control of it all the time, and it
Speaker 1: can be used in so many ways. You know, it
Speaker 1: can be used for grief, it can be used for pleasure,
Speaker 1: it can be used for joy, for grounding, and I
Speaker 1: think also, you know, for those that are really kind
Speaker 1: of opening to their soft girl era, that is one
Speaker 1: of the deep master healers. But then I would also
Speaker 1: say really bringing your own self romance is one of
Speaker 1: the best ways to do that, to heal, to open
Speaker 1: to the possibility of more. You know, so often when
Speaker 1: we're trying to heal, we're trying to heal into a
Speaker 1: life that feels better, that looks better, that has richer
Speaker 1: relationships in it, right, that has like healthy boundaries in it,
Speaker 1: Like we are trying to up level our experience and
Speaker 1: being alive, and like I.
Speaker 4: Have a deep practice with beauty.
Speaker 1: I have a deep reverence for beauty, and it has
Speaker 1: healed me in ways I can never imagine. And some
Speaker 1: of the way I started doing that was like at
Speaker 1: the top of the pandemic, I was going through a
Speaker 1: lot of things at once, a lot of things.
Speaker 4: The same week that you know.
Speaker 1: The George Floyd situation had happened, I was also getting
Speaker 1: divorced from an almost decade long marriage. I was becoming
Speaker 1: a single mom to a two year old. We're in
Speaker 1: the first couple of months of a global pandemic. I
Speaker 1: had lost a friend, and then all.
Speaker 4: The rest of your life as all of us.
Speaker 1: Came, you know, you come into all the things that
Speaker 1: you didn't let yourself think of.
Speaker 4: I think that was for so many of us, what happened.
Speaker 1: And I couldn't do anything about any of it, right,
Speaker 1: I couldn't even go to my therapist because we were
Speaker 1: in a pandemic.
Speaker 4: She couldn't figure out.
Speaker 1: How to see me yet, and like, you know, Zoom
Speaker 1: was dressed kind of starting and like and really one
Speaker 1: of the only things that I could do was breathe, stretch, cry,
Speaker 1: continue to meditate and make beauty. And that kind of
Speaker 1: just look like gardening for me. I started my garden
Speaker 1: in the pandemic.
Speaker 4: I you know.
Speaker 1: I got seeds and I planted roses, and I would
Speaker 1: light incense. I hung prisms in all the windows that
Speaker 1: got sun in my house, and you know, I would
Speaker 1: just on my hardest day that I'd be like, how
Speaker 1: am I going to raise this child?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: How am I going to do this? What am I
Speaker 1: going to tell him when he's old enough?
Speaker 4: You know? What? Am I?
Speaker 1: Why didn't my friend want to leave earth, you know,
Speaker 1: and like, what what do I do with that feeling?
Speaker 1: And like and then and you're in the midst of
Speaker 1: all of that, because all of it will come up
Speaker 1: many many times, and you take a breath and you
Speaker 1: look at the sun and.
Speaker 4: You say, God, that's so beautiful.
Speaker 1: You look at the prisms shining a tiny little rainbow
Speaker 1: across your fridge, and you.
Speaker 4: Stay like, God, that's so beautiful.
Speaker 1: You know, like you do all the little teeny tiny
Speaker 1: things that you don't think are enough to solve the
Speaker 1: bigger pain, and you just keep looking at it. You
Speaker 1: just keep doing it, You keep creating it. You when
Speaker 1: the roses bloom, you go and pick a rose every
Speaker 1: time for yourself and you put it in a vase.
Speaker 1: And I grew that, you know, and you look at
Speaker 1: it like the Buddha did, and you find God in it.
Speaker 1: And that's the way to slowly soften.
Speaker 2: That is so beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that.
Speaker 2: And yeah, oh my gosh. I think the main part
Speaker 2: of what I heard was creating it, Like you have
Speaker 2: to create it. And I was thinking about reflecting, like
Speaker 2: what are the ways that I've created it in my life?
Speaker 2: And it is all the small things. It's like, I
Speaker 2: love scent, and so in every room, like I'm just
Speaker 2: giving examples so that other people can maybe take from
Speaker 2: it if it's something they relate to. But I have
Speaker 2: incense in my temple area, so I know that it's
Speaker 2: related to that. But then every room I have essential
Speaker 2: or diffuser because every time I go past it, it
Speaker 2: brings me this like feeling of oh I love that sense,
Speaker 2: and that reminds me of this, this and this. So
Speaker 2: each scent has like a different memory link to it.
Speaker 2: And so I guess and what you said about the prism,
Speaker 2: it's visual and so actually every sense if you think
Speaker 2: about what satisfies each sense. When I'm smelling something, what
Speaker 2: smells do I love? And how can I create that
Speaker 2: around me? When I'm looking at something, what is it
Speaker 2: that I see as beauty? Because sometimes you don't even
Speaker 2: know that what is it that I look at and
Speaker 2: I think, oh, this is beautiful? Like so much for
Speaker 2: me is like natural colors, like earthy tones, and so
Speaker 2: I was like, how can I create that in different ways,
Speaker 2: whether it's in pottery, whether it's in the walls around me?
Speaker 2: And so I think if you think about each sense
Speaker 2: and you go through that and you say, what are
Speaker 2: those things when it's tastes, what are those things that
Speaker 2: not just stimulate me, but actually make me feel at home?
Speaker 2: Because I think that's a difference as well. It's like
Speaker 2: these things can really excite me, what are the things
Speaker 2: that make me feel like I'm at home? And so
Speaker 2: moving away from home, I definitely relate to that.
Speaker 1: I remember we did this event a few months ago,
Speaker 1: and that was something that really stuck with me that
Speaker 1: you said, because you were talking about your book and
Speaker 1: you were sharing about spices, yes, and just about some
Speaker 1: of those kind of like freedoms you can find in
Speaker 1: spice and some of those emotional kind of connections that
Speaker 1: you can find and spice, and that really stuck with me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely have a connection to spices, flavors and home.
Speaker 2: And I think you and you know what you're just
Speaker 2: saying that It's like, whenever I miss home, the first
Speaker 2: thing I think to do is cook a meal that
Speaker 2: my mum makes. And it's because of the smells and
Speaker 2: what I remember coming back from school and smelling those
Speaker 2: certain things, and it brings this nil nostalgic home feeling.
Speaker 2: And as soon as you feel at home if it
Speaker 2: was a safe space for you, and it's something that
Speaker 2: you connect to in a positive way, your whole body's relaxes,
Speaker 2: and so bringing back little things that have fond memories
Speaker 2: and keeping those things around you in different ways can
Speaker 2: be such a beautiful way to soften and feel Because
Speaker 2: I guess when I think about softness, what you're saying
Speaker 2: is I feel in my most like relaxed, comforted, safe space. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: Like softness is like when you I think about whenever
Speaker 2: we're stressed, or when we feel anxious, or when we
Speaker 2: feel like we're not in an environment that can hold us,
Speaker 2: everything is tense. Yeah, and so what does softness then means?
Speaker 2: Softness then means the opposite of what are the things
Speaker 2: that make me feel most comfortable, that make me feel
Speaker 2: most safe, that make me feel most at home?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so softness is like the feeling of being disarmed.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like we're all walking around sometimes ready
Speaker 1: for battle and every moment, you.
Speaker 4: Know, and it's like to be soft is to just
Speaker 4: be disarmed, like my armor off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so true. That reminds me of whenever my
Speaker 2: husband would walk into a room. I have this like
Speaker 2: like I know that he's in the house, but like
Speaker 2: whenever he we still laugh about it. It's like what
Speaker 2: ten years down the line nearly, and he walks into
Speaker 2: the kitchen and walks in and I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I didn't see that, or like you'll walk into a bathroom,
Speaker 2: like why did you do that? Why did you shock me?
Speaker 2: Like that was like I literally walked into the room,
Speaker 2: and it made me realize I'm so much more like
Speaker 2: that when I'm on like high anxiety or on edge
Speaker 2: about other things in my life. It makes me so
Speaker 2: much more hyper anxious about the people around me. But
Speaker 2: also in the things that I watch. That has been
Speaker 2: such made such a significant difference to how soft I
Speaker 2: feel and how at ease I feel in my heart.
Speaker 2: As soon as I start watching things that cause my
Speaker 2: mind anxiety or even my heart anxiety, even in the
Speaker 2: moment you think you watch it and you let it go,
Speaker 2: but you actually don't.
Speaker 4: It's so true.
Speaker 2: And so as soon as I start watching things that
Speaker 2: people I watch this it's so good. And I watched
Speaker 2: the first episode and I'm like, oh my god, I
Speaker 2: feel so not happy watching that, and I notice I'm
Speaker 2: so much more on high alert after having observed something
Speaker 2: like that, And so.
Speaker 4: That is so real.
Speaker 1: I've given myself this kind of parameter now, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: if my foot starts shaking, well I watch something, or
Speaker 1: if I notice that I'm tapping something, turn it off.
Speaker 1: It's not for you. You don't need this rollercoaster in your life.
Speaker 2: Like, it's so funny, you said, the foot shaking when
Speaker 2: I went on my bookstore. The one thing I noticed
Speaker 2: the most when I was doing all my interviews and
Speaker 2: whatever was my foot would do this, and throughout it
Speaker 2: I had no idea. I would watch it back and
Speaker 2: I was like, what is my do? And it was
Speaker 2: because I guess I was on highlight. And I was like,
Speaker 2: through that process, I felt like I was so constantly
Speaker 2: going into one thing after another and feeling quite anxious.
Speaker 2: And then I noticed it when I'm in podcasts like this,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, my foot is as still as
Speaker 2: can be. Yeah, And so it's so funny how your
Speaker 2: body starts to indicate these things to you, doesn't it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And we only know we only notice someone we're aware,
Speaker 1: you know. That's the thing, because I think this is
Speaker 1: just natural biology. It's how our biology responds. But if
Speaker 1: you're aware of your body, you kind of notice those
Speaker 1: smaller things, and most people don't know.
Speaker 2: What would you say? Is one affirmation that you wish
Speaker 2: every woman would s taught a day with. Do you
Speaker 2: do affirmations?
Speaker 4: Oh my god, it's so good. I have affirmation practices
Speaker 4: in the boss you.
Speaker 1: Do, I'll say, so, the power of I am is unparalleled, right,
Speaker 1: Like the power of an I am statement is unparalleled.
Speaker 4: But I like to really push people.
Speaker 1: Instead of kind of saying some of those things that
Speaker 1: may not be necessarily fully connected that may feel just
Speaker 1: like I'm doing an affirmation in the way I'm supposed
Speaker 1: to do an affirmation, right, Like I am love, I
Speaker 1: am abundance, like powerful, powerful, But maybe also consider like
Speaker 1: what is a quality of character or a quality of
Speaker 1: emotional experience that you want to embody for your unique
Speaker 1: life and your journey? And how do you start saying
Speaker 1: that to yourself every day? So, like, if you've had,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe if you haven't had experiences of being
Speaker 1: like deeply loved in a familial or romantic way, maybe
Speaker 1: a way to start inviting that in is to say, like,
Speaker 1: I am cherished and cherishing, right, Like what are like,
Speaker 1: what is the feeling.
Speaker 4: You want to know in your life? Right?
Speaker 1: Or maybe it is like you're brilliant, but you don't
Speaker 1: always give yourself the chance to be seen in that light.
Speaker 1: And so it's like I am embodying my brilliance. I
Speaker 1: am embodying my divine creativity. You know, what is the
Speaker 1: need for you? And then how do you create a
Speaker 1: statement that not only makes that need come to life,
Speaker 1: but makes it beautiful? And make sure you say it
Speaker 1: in the present tense and the present moment as if
Speaker 1: it has happened and happening, right, not like I want.
Speaker 4: To be brilliant?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like okay, so now you're inviting more longing into
Speaker 1: your life.
Speaker 4: Right, But like I am radiating my.
Speaker 2: Brilliance right, like beaking it into existence.
Speaker 1: I had gorgeous language, you know, and if there's words,
Speaker 1: there's so many words to know, So open the thesaurus, right,
Speaker 1: can you say that word more beautifully?
Speaker 4: Open the dictionary?
Speaker 1: Is there a different way to kind of supercharge that
Speaker 1: word that adds more meaning to it? I love working
Speaker 1: with affirmations in that way.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that makes sense because it is such a
Speaker 2: personal practice. You can't really be one fits all, and
Speaker 2: it reminded me of when I started praying, because prayer
Speaker 2: was something I used to really struggle with, like the
Speaker 2: idea of it wasn't necessarily the idea of speaking to
Speaker 2: God that I felt connected to. It was like what
Speaker 2: am I saying? And I remember thinking, oh God, my
Speaker 2: prayers are so lame, like they are so boring, and
Speaker 2: the language is so like a child and I remember
Speaker 2: then I was like, I really want to or more
Speaker 2: heart in my prayer, and I just can't find the
Speaker 2: words for it. And so then I started reading all
Speaker 2: these beautiful devotional poetry books and I was like, oh
Speaker 2: my gosh, like this is how I feel, but how
Speaker 2: come I kind of put it into those words? And
Speaker 2: so it was really beautiful because even though there were
Speaker 2: certain things I would read and I was like, gosh,
Speaker 2: I can't even relate to this. This is so deeply
Speaker 2: like this is so deep and so devotional that I
Speaker 2: don't really feel connected to it yet, but I want to.
Speaker 2: And so I keep saying those prayers over and over again,
Speaker 2: and it was in such a beautiful kind of It
Speaker 2: was in Sanskrit, which makes it even more beautiful, and
Speaker 2: the translation in English was actually lovely, but sometimes can't
Speaker 2: can't even like it doesn't depict it in the most
Speaker 2: beautiful way. But even then I was like, oh. And
Speaker 2: then I kept saying those prayers, and then slowly those
Speaker 2: prayers just kept coming into my mind naturally. So whenever
Speaker 2: I was thinking of prayer, those words would randomly flow
Speaker 2: in or those thoughts would come in. I was like, oh, wow,
Speaker 2: that's the power of You may not feel it, yeah,
Speaker 2: but when you keep repeating it and repeating it, it
Speaker 2: does become And I remember trying to do affirmations and
Speaker 2: I'll be like, but I'm not this, and I'd be
Speaker 2: like I am, like I am courageous or I am
Speaker 2: whatever it was I was feeling, and I was like but,
Speaker 2: and in my mind would be like, but I'm not.
Speaker 2: And so I remember there was this disconnect between like
Speaker 2: the word I was saying and the belief yeah, And
Speaker 2: so I would often go kind of waving and out,
Speaker 2: and I was like, this is so silly. I'm not this,
Speaker 2: and like why am I saying all these things? And
Speaker 2: then when I did that with devotional poetry, I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I kind of get it now, Like you have to
Speaker 2: keep saying it. Yeah, you have to.
Speaker 1: That's such an important point to make for this kind
Speaker 1: of a practice, because you're training the belief in yourself, right,
Speaker 1: And I think, like right to what you're saying, everyone
Speaker 1: is kind of go to way of surpassing it being
Speaker 1: a limitation is to try to like say it with
Speaker 1: more force, yes, right, Like they'll usually say like your power, right,
Speaker 1: like I am abundant, and I'm like, I don't use
Speaker 1: that voice for anything.
Speaker 4: When do I ever talk that way? That's not my
Speaker 4: empowered voice.
Speaker 1: And I think the beauty of kind of like using
Speaker 1: it as that devotion opening yourself to the belief it's
Speaker 1: saying it in whatever way it's showing up now, right,
Speaker 1: So like sometimes you're going to cry through saying it.
Speaker 4: Sometimes you're going to close your eyes, you're going to
Speaker 4: say it shakily. Do it authentically.
Speaker 1: Don't let that be another area that you're adding performance
Speaker 1: to do it authentically and let it take time and
Speaker 1: it will click. And like I have to say, when
Speaker 1: you were talking about like connecting to like devotional passages,
Speaker 1: especially in Sanskrit.
Speaker 4: Or poetry, that.
Speaker 1: I mean like discovering roomy when I did many years ago,
Speaker 1: was a revolution to my life, Like that is soft
Speaker 1: girl era, like the way Roomy sure everyone knows, but
Speaker 1: thirteenth century Sufi mystic poet icon like legend, but the
Speaker 1: way that Rumy talks about God.
Speaker 5: And the language and yeah, it's so hot, like it
Speaker 5: is so like yummy, It is so sensory, it is
Speaker 5: so somadic, it is so define and it's like I
Speaker 5: remember reading those poems and being like, I don't even
Speaker 5: know what this feels like until exactly.
Speaker 2: What.
Speaker 1: That's a feeling you can have, and that's a feeling
Speaker 1: you can have with God. That's the feeling you can
Speaker 1: have with your own self and your life. Like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, you know, oh.
Speaker 2: I have to share some of my favorite poetry books.
Speaker 2: So do you know diversial poetry. I feel like you
Speaker 2: love them. You said this in your book, and I
Speaker 2: really loved it, so I wrote it out. You said.
Speaker 2: One of my daughters asked me something similar recently. You
Speaker 2: have question was how to someone become wise? Is that you?
Speaker 4: That was Charlemagne's Forward, But I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: I started reading okay forward is so it was so
Speaker 2: beautiful powerful, I'll keep reading it. I thought about answering
Speaker 2: with age, but that would be a lie because there's
Speaker 2: plenty of foolish ass older people out here. So my
Speaker 2: reply was, experiences make you wise, not just experiences, but
Speaker 2: what you learn from those experiences. We have all heard
Speaker 2: the saying smart people learn from their own mistakes. Wise
Speaker 2: people learn from the mistakes of others. That's just another
Speaker 2: way of saying that we learned from experiences. And I
Speaker 2: was like, it's okay, it wasn't you, but I thought
Speaker 2: it was such a beautiful explanation of what wisdom actually is,
Speaker 2: and it's kind of what we talked about earlier. It
Speaker 2: was like, it is so much more about the practice
Speaker 2: and the experience that you have than is about the knowing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just so grateful and I can't express it enough.
Speaker 1: My dear friend Charlemagne the God Leonard, he has been
Speaker 1: one of my closest, dearest friends since we were both
Speaker 1: like sharing lunch, right, you know, really for almost two
Speaker 1: decades and our relationship. He did me the honor of
Speaker 1: doing the forward for my book and doing the audio
Speaker 1: version as well. But you know, it's been so powerful,
Speaker 1: I think, for each of us to reflect on our
Speaker 1: lives through these kind of lifelong conversations we've been having
Speaker 1: with each other throughout our evolution, and one of the
Speaker 1: things that we've always talked about is we've grown in
Speaker 1: our own individual consciousness is like wisdom and really knowing that,
Speaker 1: Like wisdom truly is earned or it's surrendered to right,
Speaker 1: it is not knowledge. You can amass a lot of
Speaker 1: knowledge and not live what you know you know, And
Speaker 1: I think that that is an important distinction for people
Speaker 1: to think about in this day and age, especially when
Speaker 1: there are so many people that others are looking to. Right,
Speaker 1: It's like a lot of people can memorize, a lot
Speaker 1: of people can regurgitate, but like, what is the truth
Speaker 1: of the quality of the life they're living right, especially
Speaker 1: off camera and off Instagram? Like what is the truth
Speaker 1: of how they move in the world and how they
Speaker 1: experience the world.
Speaker 4: And I think that's wisdom.
Speaker 1: And you know, I remember he and I were having
Speaker 1: this conversation that we explore in the book about wisdom,
Speaker 1: and you know, I my understanding of how wisdom moves
Speaker 1: in my life is like all of my lived experiences,
Speaker 1: I've been able to glean wisdom from because I've chosen
Speaker 1: to be present with them, even the harder ones, the
Speaker 1: stranger ones, the confusing ones, and because of that, that's
Speaker 1: how I serve. I don't have to be out earning anything.
Speaker 1: I don't have to, you know, kind of like present
Speaker 1: myself in a certain way or hope that I'm being
Speaker 1: perceived in a certain way.
Speaker 4: I trust what God.
Speaker 1: Has allowed me to move in through what I've been
Speaker 1: present with, how I use it to help. And I
Speaker 1: know that everything, everything is in service to the greater world,
Speaker 1: to humanity. And that's what wisdom is. And I think
Speaker 1: some of the more spiritual differences between wisdom and knowledge
Speaker 1: wisdom serves right. Wisdom isn't about the self, It is
Speaker 1: about what this does for others. Wisdom isn't about even
Speaker 1: your own personal story and trauma dump. It's about what
Speaker 1: is the deeper theme of awareness you've come to from
Speaker 1: that experience, and how do you share that, not to
Speaker 1: center yourself as wise, but as to share the wisdom
Speaker 1: to unlock the next person.
Speaker 2: Such a great definition between the two. Thank you have
Speaker 2: a formula for purpose in your book.
Speaker 4: Yes, for people who feel.
Speaker 2: Lost right now in their purpose? How do you find it?
Speaker 4: Ooh?
Speaker 1: Purpose is one of those again, another tool of avoidance
Speaker 1: that can be done in a sophisticated way that you
Speaker 1: don't know, or it can be another way of kind
Speaker 1: of outsourcing your worth. I found that, so I've been
Speaker 1: talking about and teaching about purpose for over ten years.
Speaker 1: I gave like this big talk about purpose at an event.
Speaker 1: It popped up in my memory is like ten years ago,
Speaker 1: and that's when I first started really deepening into like,
Speaker 1: how do we exist with purpose with dharma without also
Speaker 1: having to make that another thing, another kind of self
Speaker 1: aggrandizing way to receive attention or respect from other people.
Speaker 1: I think if we rest in purpose as a job title,
Speaker 1: or as an amount of likes or an amount of views,
Speaker 1: or any kind of outward validation, we're missing the point.
Speaker 1: You know, Purpose is between you and God, and it
Speaker 1: is always evolving.
Speaker 4: I thought my purpose was to broadcast.
Speaker 1: I was a broadcaster for almost fifteen years in all
Speaker 1: these different places, and that was an extension of my.
Speaker 4: Purpose for that moment. But it's a job, right.
Speaker 1: I honed sks in that world to serve with them,
Speaker 1: which I can now do through also guiding meditation, writing books,
Speaker 1: learning how to talk about healing with people in a
Speaker 1: way that hits them right. But it's about making it
Speaker 1: useful for others as well. And so you know, the
Speaker 1: way that I've come to study and hold purposes, it's
Speaker 1: really this beautiful, beautiful, intentional mix of your lived experience,
Speaker 1: sometimes even the much harder things, the wisdom that you
Speaker 1: glean from those experiences, the skills that you've amassed this.
Speaker 4: Far in a variety of things.
Speaker 1: Right, Like, maybe you were a cashier at sixteen, but
Speaker 1: there's something that is stuck with you to this day
Speaker 1: that serves you to this day about what you learned there.
Speaker 1: So it's your lived experience and the wisdom from it.
Speaker 1: It's the skills you've amassed thus far. It's the gifts
Speaker 1: you came to this world with, right, those inherent things
Speaker 1: that are naturally a part of who and what you
Speaker 1: are and how you serve with them.
Speaker 4: Simple formula thank.
Speaker 2: You, Yeah, really beautiful. And I feel like if people
Speaker 2: really break those down, if you really sit with each
Speaker 2: of those pieces of the formula, I feel like you'll
Speaker 2: probably learn things that you didn't even realize about yourself
Speaker 2: if you really start to reflect in your life. And
Speaker 2: maybe a part of the reason why. And I can
Speaker 2: speak to this because I feel like I've been lost
Speaker 2: in my purpose quite a few times in my life
Speaker 2: it's because you actually haven't got to know yourself in
Speaker 2: that way. You know, when someone asked me, so, what
Speaker 2: do you like doing? And I'm like, I don't really know,
Speaker 2: but like you don't know because you haven't explored it.
Speaker 2: You don't know because you haven't really sat in thought
Speaker 2: what are those skills? What are those gifts? And you know,
Speaker 2: I remember I would always be like, I don't really
Speaker 2: think I have anything I was naturally born with. And
Speaker 2: it was like, there's such a self deprecating part of
Speaker 2: this too, where you may not know your purpose because
Speaker 2: you actually haven't seen the value that you have in
Speaker 2: the world. You haven't seen the gifts that have been
Speaker 2: given to you from birth, and maybe you just haven't
Speaker 2: recognized it all this time because you've been lost in
Speaker 2: the things that you don't have, and you've been focusing
Speaker 2: on the parts of you that you wish you had
Speaker 2: and all those things. And so really, if you sit
Speaker 2: with them, those are such brilliant questions, like such beautiful
Speaker 2: questions to help someone truly deeply understand their purpose.
Speaker 1: My goodness, and I love that you that you brought
Speaker 1: that framing into it too, because it's like it's all connected, right,
Speaker 1: it's like you can't find purpose without really investing in
Speaker 1: your sense of worth because it's always going to be
Speaker 1: requiring someone else's validation for you to believe it, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think when it comes to what our inherent
Speaker 1: gifts are, it's almost like you feel disappointed if if
Speaker 1: you're not a singer, Yeah, exactly right, Like if I
Speaker 1: don't have any gifts because you're not a famous singer,
Speaker 1: like what do you what do you mean? I think
Speaker 1: one of my biggest, greatest gifts, And even though a
Speaker 1: lot of life informed this, I came to the earth
Speaker 1: like this, Like I can sit at the bottom of
Speaker 1: the ocean with someone right, and it's a pleasure to
Speaker 1: do that right, you know, And like that's a gift
Speaker 1: that that isn't something everyone can do.
Speaker 4: That's my gift. And it's not the shiniest.
Speaker 1: Gift necessarily to have, like being able to witness deep
Speaker 1: pain in others. It's not necessarily the gift that puts
Speaker 1: you on a billboard or you know, but it's my gift.
Speaker 4: It's my gift, and it's valuable, and.
Speaker 2: It's so beautiful to even be able to say that.
Speaker 2: I remember this one time I was with family, and
Speaker 2: everyone's going around saying, like, what is it that you
Speaker 2: think that you have received from your parents that's been
Speaker 2: like a beautiful thing? And I remember this idea of
Speaker 2: like and I guess it kind of links to like
Speaker 2: false humility where it came around to me and I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I don't I don't even want to like,
Speaker 2: am I am I being too boasty about myself if
Speaker 2: I say this, or like the confidence with which you
Speaker 2: said your gift, it's also such a beautiful thing because
Speaker 2: you're also it's not saying it from a place of ego,
Speaker 2: it's purely coming from a place of I've received this
Speaker 2: and this has been my experience, and now I can
Speaker 2: actually share this with other people. And I think there's
Speaker 2: this especially for women, when you say, when you feel
Speaker 2: like you're talking about your gifts or sharing the good
Speaker 2: things about yourself, you feel like you're not being humble
Speaker 2: enough and actually honoring them and recognizing them is actually
Speaker 2: so little to do with ego and so much to
Speaker 2: do with service. Yeah, and recognizing them is so much
Speaker 2: to do with service, because you're like, well, if I
Speaker 2: don't recognize them, I'm not gonna be able to use them,
Speaker 2: which means I actually of no use to other people.
Speaker 2: And that's usually when we feel the least valuable. In
Speaker 2: my life, especially, Yeah, I don't know why I offer
Speaker 2: the world, Like I remember that being a constant in
Speaker 2: my mind. I was like, I don't know what I
Speaker 2: have to offer the world. Then I used to see
Speaker 2: I think it really got triggered when I saw what
Speaker 2: Jay started doing in his life, and he was so
Speaker 2: in his purpose and like he lived it, breathed it.
Speaker 2: He was so in joy and like constantly in purpose.
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh my god, I have absolutely
Speaker 2: no flipping idea what am I here for? But what
Speaker 2: beautiful place it was that I got to be in
Speaker 2: that because it really made me excavate and like, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: to actually investigate what that was. And I think investigating
Speaker 2: is such an important part of this process.
Speaker 4: God, yes, oh my gosh, and I think too.
Speaker 1: Sometimes this weird thing happens with women. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it happens with everyone, but it's like we're being
Speaker 1: kind of gas lit in a very specific way where
Speaker 1: it's like even in some of the same rooms where
Speaker 1: people are telling you to like own your worth, own
Speaker 1: your purpose, and then the second you try that on.
Speaker 1: Then people are like, oh right, chill out, like okay,
Speaker 1: you're not all that, or you're like, well, what the hell?
Speaker 2: I just got my confidence in this, and now you
Speaker 2: are knocking me back down.
Speaker 1: Now you're knocking me back down. Or even when we
Speaker 1: say things like how am I meant to serve the world?
Speaker 1: How am I meant to bring my purpose to the world?
Speaker 1: You don't have to think about the world as a
Speaker 1: planet of nine billion. It's your world and not influencing
Speaker 1: nine billion people, which who does There are people alive
Speaker 1: that have never heard the name Jesus.
Speaker 4: There are people alive like and think about that.
Speaker 1: How I use that as a specific example because of
Speaker 1: how permeating Christianity is and how ancient there's people that
Speaker 1: to me, it is shocking. You know, maybe somewhere in
Speaker 1: some corner of the world haven't heard of Oprah, which
Speaker 1: blows my mind because I'm like, ah, you know, but
Speaker 1: it's like, it's about you bringing your purpose to your world,
Speaker 1: to your ecosystem. Five people is plenty, yes, twenty people
Speaker 1: has plenty, a few hundred and a few thousand. Some
Speaker 1: are meant to guide millions.
Speaker 4: It doesn't mean they're better or their purpose is more important.
Speaker 1: It's just that happens to be the way they're meant
Speaker 1: to be used exactly.
Speaker 2: It's so true, And I think we minimize our impact
Speaker 2: by looking at those metrics. Ye it's like, oh, what
Speaker 2: am I going to do? What's the point of me?
Speaker 2: Even when my friends said, what's the point of me
Speaker 2: posting this? And I'm like, but what you just said
Speaker 2: was so amazing. Then you have like two hundred people
Speaker 2: that could hear this and one that might say one
Speaker 2: person from wanting to leave this world wanting to not
Speaker 2: be here because of your experience. And so I think
Speaker 2: we really minimize the impact because of how we see
Speaker 2: people with forty two million followers or whatever it is,
Speaker 2: we minimize the impact of even if you're not on
Speaker 2: social media, what about the people just around you that
Speaker 2: you see every single day, the people you work with,
Speaker 2: the people that are within your family. Like, that's you
Speaker 2: impacting way more people than people were able to do
Speaker 2: back in the day.
Speaker 1: And that's actually what our work is right now, I think,
Speaker 1: right because too many people are conditioned to this current
Speaker 1: zeitgeist and think it is about the likes or the
Speaker 1: follows or people in other states I'll never visit or countries,
Speaker 1: I'll never be.
Speaker 4: Need to know who I am.
Speaker 1: And it's like we all need a deep refresh on
Speaker 1: how to show up for the people that are in
Speaker 1: our physical, actual, real worlds.
Speaker 2: I always said this gem like I random, I have
Speaker 2: these random thoughts, and I'm like, do you think we
Speaker 2: were supposed to travel? Like do you think in life
Speaker 2: we were supposed to go to other places and meet
Speaker 2: all these different people? Or were we supposed to stay
Speaker 2: as they did back in the day, like in our communities,
Speaker 2: creating these really solid structures and frameworks with the people
Speaker 2: and the cultures and the community that we are from
Speaker 2: and and actually build that out in a beautiful way.
Speaker 2: And would the world just be like so much better
Speaker 2: set had we not known what else was there? And like, anyway,
Speaker 2: that's for a different topic, but now it just reminded me.
Speaker 1: Of what you said that I've been thinking thoughts like
Speaker 1: that too. Yeah, I so feel that, and I think
Speaker 1: it's important we the pendulum always swings right, So like
Speaker 1: so many people weren't seeing the world and needed.
Speaker 4: To be expanded until we've.
Speaker 1: Had this surgeon like global travel and now it's an
Speaker 1: opportunity to bring some learnings back, yes, and deal a
Speaker 1: little bit more with less.
Speaker 2: We'll have an existential question podcast at some point. But
Speaker 2: thank you so much. Oh my god, I could just
Speaker 2: honestly sit and talk to you for hours, but I
Speaker 2: think it's already been an hour. So thank you so much.
Speaker 2: And this was honestly such a such it was it
Speaker 2: was a conversation I needed today. Honestly, it was beautiful.
Speaker 2: Thank you, and everybody go out and get Living in
Speaker 2: Wisdom by Davy? Is it Davy? Don't say right? You
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: I know Depak always calls me David.
Speaker 2: How do you pronounce it for me? Debbie?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I received both because you suit the name Davy, I'll
Speaker 1: say it.
Speaker 4: I feel connected.
Speaker 2: Yes, Debbie Brown, Living in Wisdom such a beautiful book.
Speaker 2: And if any of this resonated with you, then this
Speaker 2: book is going to be everything that you need. Thank you,
Speaker 2: thank you. Yes, as