WEBVTT - Justin Wolfers, Jared Huffman &  Simon Rosenberg

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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<v Speaker 1>where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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<v Speaker 1>today's best minds, and the state of Louisiana legally requires

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<v Speaker 1>the Ten Commandments to be displayed in classrooms. We have

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<v Speaker 1>such a great show for you today. Congressman Jared Hoffman

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<v Speaker 1>stops by to talk about the preemptive steps he and

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<v Speaker 1>his committee are taking to try to stop Trump from

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<v Speaker 1>having executive power and instituting Project twenty twenty five if

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<v Speaker 1>he is re elected. Then we'll talk to the Opium

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<v Speaker 1>Chronicles Simon Rosenberg about what he's seeing in the twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty four election. But first we have the host of

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<v Speaker 1>the Think Like an Economist podcast, University of Michigan, Professor

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<v Speaker 1>Justin Wolfers. Welcome back to Fast Politics. One of my

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<v Speaker 1>favorite personal favorite guests, despite the fact that he's having

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<v Speaker 1>a much better time than the rest of us.

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<v Speaker 2>Justin Wolfers, Molly, being one of your favorite economists is

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<v Speaker 2>do you have a second favorite?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I love Krugman. We've had him on He's

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<v Speaker 1>no terrific. Yeah, you're right, walk Krugman. He's my guy.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think we should have a Bollman here of

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<v Speaker 1>victory lap because you were right. You were cautiously optimistic

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<v Speaker 1>about this economy, and you turned out to be right.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you want to spend fifteen minutes on there? So

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<v Speaker 2>forty five?

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<v Speaker 1>That's right.

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<v Speaker 2>Look the US economy, it's been just a relentlessly boring story,

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<v Speaker 2>which is the economy keeps growing, wages are growing, they're

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<v Speaker 2>ahead of prices, inequality keeps falling, unemployments near a fifty

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<v Speaker 2>year low. It's just so dull. This is what economists want.

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<v Speaker 2>John Maynard Kines famously said he wanted economists to be

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<v Speaker 2>is boring as dentists. If you look at the economy

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<v Speaker 2>out there, it is wonderfully, splendidly boring. Different families have

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<v Speaker 2>different stories. Lots of people are struggling with the cost

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<v Speaker 2>of living, but lots of people are finding work, lots

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<v Speaker 2>of people are finding new jobs, lots of people are

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<v Speaker 2>starting new businesses, lots of people are getting pay rises,

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<v Speaker 2>and overall all across the income distribution, people are keeping

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<v Speaker 2>up and in fact doing better than keeping up. They're

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<v Speaker 2>getting ahead. And this little engine that could, the US

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<v Speaker 2>economy is doing things that most economists thought it would

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<v Speaker 2>never be able to do. So Look, it's not my

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<v Speaker 2>victory lap, it's Joe Biden's and most importantly, it's the

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<v Speaker 2>American people's.

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<v Speaker 1>Infleetion is why an economy that looks good feels bad.

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<v Speaker 1>Explain to us a little bit about that.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, there's different ways of thinking about it. Let me

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<v Speaker 2>start with why it feels bad, and then let me

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<v Speaker 2>do that horrible thing that you're not allowed to do

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<v Speaker 2>and explain why it shouldn't. So why does it feel bad?

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<v Speaker 2>You go to the grocery store and you see the

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<v Speaker 2>high prices and they're shocking, and it leads you to

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<v Speaker 2>do something like call it a cost of living crisis.

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<v Speaker 2>And if prices over the past few years have gone

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<v Speaker 2>up by ten percent, you think yourselful if they hadn't

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<v Speaker 2>gone up by ten percent able to buy ten percent

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<v Speaker 2>more stuff. So it feels like inflation stole from you,

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<v Speaker 2>just took away your purchasing power. Now, that's not actually

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<v Speaker 2>how economies work. If we hadn't had that, and here's look,

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<v Speaker 2>let me try and get to the core of the issue. Mollie.

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<v Speaker 2>What I want to do is close your eyes right

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<v Speaker 2>now and your listeners to unless they're driving, and imagine

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<v Speaker 2>you fall asleep for ten years like sleeping beauty, and

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<v Speaker 2>you wake up and everything in the world has an

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<v Speaker 2>extra zero on it. Right, So the dollar store is

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<v Speaker 2>now the ten dollar store. The ten dollar bill in

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<v Speaker 2>your wallet is now one hundred dollar bill. The one

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<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars in savings you had is now ten thousand dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>An apple isn't a dollar, it's ten dollars. An orange

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<v Speaker 2>isn't a dollar, it's ten dollars. And so on. Your

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<v Speaker 2>wages went up tenfold, everything's gone up tenfold. What different

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<v Speaker 2>choices would you make? How different is that world? And

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<v Speaker 2>the answer is it's exactly the same as before you

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<v Speaker 2>went asleep. There's just more zeros in it. Right, The

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<v Speaker 2>number of hours you have to work to afford an

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<v Speaker 2>apple hasn't changed, Right, Your wage is ten times high.

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<v Speaker 2>It shows the price of the apple. So how hard

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<v Speaker 2>you work, what you'll buy, and what your quality of

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<v Speaker 2>life is would be exactly the same. Just that world

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<v Speaker 2>would have extra zeros on the end of it. And

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<v Speaker 2>so what we see there is that if all prices

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<v Speaker 2>and all wages go up at the same time, nothing changes.

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<v Speaker 2>And so that's an example of one hundred, sorry, one

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<v Speaker 2>thousand percent inflation and no one's any worse off, and

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<v Speaker 2>so if you want to get fancy, this is what

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<v Speaker 2>economists call neutrality. If everything goes up at the same time,

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<v Speaker 2>it's neutral. Nothing changes, the inflation doesn't matter at all.

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<v Speaker 1>That's sort of what's happened in this country.

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<v Speaker 2>It's kind of mostly what happened. If I try and

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<v Speaker 2>look someone in the I that's exactly what happened, and

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<v Speaker 2>they'll say not exactly, and I have to agree with them.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's actually most of the story, which is, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>since the pandemic, wages are roughly up twenty percent, prices

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<v Speaker 2>are roughly up twenty percent, Housing prices are roughly up

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<v Speaker 2>twenty percent, the price of apples are roughly up twenty percent,

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<v Speaker 2>and so on. It just doesn't feel that way.

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<v Speaker 1>We have been living in a country where money has been.

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<v Speaker 2>Cheap or free. Yeah, that's such a funny expression. Money

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<v Speaker 2>never feels cheap to me, but.

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<v Speaker 1>With low interest rates, it means that money has been

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<v Speaker 1>very cheap.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, so it's been easy to borrow, to get a

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<v Speaker 2>mortgage and so on. But I really want to focus

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<v Speaker 2>on inflation. An earlier generation, my parents lived through much

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<v Speaker 2>of their lives with inflation in the United States bumping

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<v Speaker 2>around five, ten percent, fifteen percent, up and down and

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<v Speaker 2>up and down, and they understood the deal. The deal

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<v Speaker 2>was when prices rise, eventually your wages will rise and

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<v Speaker 2>it will catch up, and it'll be a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>like that dream I just described to you. So they

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<v Speaker 2>didn't freak out. They just were used to it. They

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<v Speaker 2>knew that when inflation happened, everything would eventually sort itself

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<v Speaker 2>out and you'll basically be made whole. And then what

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<v Speaker 2>happened was we had thirty, maybe even forty years of

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<v Speaker 2>basically no inflation. We had inflation at basically two percent,

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<v Speaker 2>which is so low you barely notice it. And so

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<v Speaker 2>for anyone my age, I'm fifty one or less, they're

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<v Speaker 2>not used to the deal that when inflation rises, everything

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<v Speaker 2>will sort itself out and you won't actually get ripped off.

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<v Speaker 2>And so they feel ripped off.

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<v Speaker 1>And I hear you.

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<v Speaker 2>I know that you feel ripped off, But I also

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<v Speaker 2>know enough from studying the US economy and economies all

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<v Speaker 2>around the world, you're not going to be ripped off.

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<v Speaker 2>And in fact, it's pretty clear that by election day,

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<v Speaker 2>and actually probably by today, almost across the entire income distribution,

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<v Speaker 2>everyone's wages higher than they were before this inflationary burst.

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<v Speaker 2>Once they've risen by more than prices have, things have

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<v Speaker 2>mostly but not entirely sorted themselves.

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<v Speaker 1>Out right. Talk us through how Trump is going to

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<v Speaker 1>fix inflation. Ha ha.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the first thing he's going to do, he said,

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<v Speaker 2>is shift from an income tax to tariffs. Tariffs sound

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<v Speaker 2>like a really good idea. It sounds like that's a

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<v Speaker 2>tax on China, boy, and you know, added a little

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<v Speaker 2>xenophobia and stir, but actually a tariff is a tax

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<v Speaker 2>on a good that an American buys. And just because

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a Chinese manufacturer, if I could sell my goods

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<v Speaker 2>to Europe or the US, I'm not going to sell

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<v Speaker 2>him any cheaper to the US. That means, if you

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<v Speaker 2>make me pay a ten percent tax, I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>pass that along. And in fact, there were very careful

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<v Speaker 2>studies of the first Trump tariffs on washing machines and

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<v Speaker 2>things like that, and basically every extra dollar in tariffs

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<v Speaker 2>were passed along as a dollar higher prices. And so

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<v Speaker 2>when we moved to tariffs, that's basically saying he's going

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<v Speaker 2>to burst sales taxes on anything you buy from abroad.

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<v Speaker 2>Have a look at the label on the T shirt

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<v Speaker 2>you're wearing right now. I guarantee you it's not made

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<v Speaker 2>in the US, and so it's going to cause an

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<v Speaker 2>enormous inflationary burst right there. Secondly, he wants to undermine

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<v Speaker 2>the independence of the FED. This is the sort of

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<v Speaker 2>wonky stuff that no one cares about, but is the

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<v Speaker 2>first step to becoming Argentina. And your listeners might say,

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<v Speaker 2>what's Argentina famous for. It's famous for great football, terrific beef,

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<v Speaker 2>and the fact that one hundred years ago it was

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<v Speaker 2>one of the richest countries in the world, and then

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<v Speaker 2>its political leadership took every opportunity it could to fuck

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<v Speaker 2>it up. And one of the ways it does that

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<v Speaker 2>is by letting loose on inflation and creating a crisis.

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<v Speaker 2>And one of the ways it does that is it

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<v Speaker 2>allows politically expedient moves in important macro stuff. And so

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<v Speaker 2>one of the things we do in the US is

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<v Speaker 2>we give the FED J. Powell and his crew, We

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<v Speaker 2>tell them go and solve inflation. We'll leave you alone

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<v Speaker 2>to do it and don't hussle you around election time.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's how, partly how we've avoided being Argentina. Now Trump,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, thinks that's terrible. What he wants to do

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<v Speaker 2>is centralized power in the Oval office. He wants the

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<v Speaker 2>FED to be calling him to say what should we

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<v Speaker 2>do about inflation. The thing that he will want to do,

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<v Speaker 2>before any election or any moment is try and goose

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<v Speaker 2>the economy so he looks good, and that would cause

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<v Speaker 2>an inflationary burst, and that is the first step towards

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<v Speaker 2>the path of becoming Argentina. I don't know where that

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<v Speaker 2>process starts. I don't know where it ends, but I

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<v Speaker 2>do know it's a game I don't want to play.

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<v Speaker 2>The US has had tremendous economic success because we have

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<v Speaker 2>politically stable economic institutions. We have nerds whose job is

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<v Speaker 2>to be nerds and not worry about politics, and that

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<v Speaker 2>has protected us from the sort of madness you see

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<v Speaker 2>in other populist countries. Think about Turkey, think about Argentina,

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<v Speaker 2>and then look at our quality of life, and you

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<v Speaker 2>realize that being protected from populism has been marvelous for US.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I don't know. Wow, you made Trump sound worse,

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<v Speaker 1>but you did. I don't think I had completely saw

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<v Speaker 1>through the consequences of that. Why do you think rich

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<v Speaker 1>people like I mean, some of these people are ideologically

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<v Speaker 1>just have brain worms. But why do you think that

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<v Speaker 1>Republicans are still thought of by many voters as better

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<v Speaker 1>on the economy.

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<v Speaker 2>This has been a puzzle my whole life. So let

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<v Speaker 2>me just sort of lay out a few facts. It

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<v Speaker 2>used to be that we thought of Republicans as fiscally conservative,

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<v Speaker 2>that they take care of the budget, and this basically

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<v Speaker 2>hasn't been true in my entire adult life. Reagan famously

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<v Speaker 2>busted the budget more than anyone. Clinton then reined it in.

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<v Speaker 2>Bush busted the budget, Obama did what he could. You saw,

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<v Speaker 2>Trump busted the budget. We haven't had a fiscally conservative

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<v Speaker 2>Republican in forty or fifty years. So it used to

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<v Speaker 2>be that was a core tenant of conservatives that what

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<v Speaker 2>they wanted to do was balance it's the budget that

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<v Speaker 2>they wanted to make sure that the government was not

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<v Speaker 2>going to create any fiscal risks, and it's simply something

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<v Speaker 2>that they gave up. They gave up. There was a

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<v Speaker 2>very clear political theory, which is it was behind what

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<v Speaker 2>Reagan did, which is, if we spend all the money,

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<v Speaker 2>there'll be less money left for Democrats to spend. If

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<v Speaker 2>we have the big party. They have to clean up,

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<v Speaker 2>and Democrats have played along because if they don't clean up,

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<v Speaker 2>then we're really in a mess. So the idea that

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<v Speaker 2>Republicans were fiscally conservative, it's an idea that persists. People

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<v Speaker 2>still say I vote Republican because I want to balance

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<v Speaker 2>the budget. It's simply not been something that they've done

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<v Speaker 2>in decades and decades. Then there's this broad a question.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, people say I trust Republicans on the economy. Well, really,

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<v Speaker 2>if you look at the statistics on this, almost every

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<v Speaker 2>Republican administration has ended in recession. But happened under Bush,

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<v Speaker 2>it obviously happened under Trump, It's happened all the way back.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you look at the statistics, in fact, the

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<v Speaker 2>economy does slightly somewhat better, quite a bit better actually

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<v Speaker 2>under Democrats and under Republicans. Now, I actually don't want

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<v Speaker 2>to trumpet that too much. I know that will disappoint you.

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<v Speaker 2>We only change leaders every four years, so we have

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<v Speaker 2>a very small sample. But what is absolutely clears there's

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely no evidence, none, that the economy is better under

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<v Speaker 2>Republicans than under Democrats. Because if anything appears to in

0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:19.800
<v Speaker 2>US history be the opposite. So why is it people

0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.439
<v Speaker 2>think this is good for the economy. I'm puzzled there,

0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:23.640
<v Speaker 2>Molly just puzzled.

0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, it's just sort of baffling. And we're

0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:33.080
<v Speaker 1>thinking about So now, one of the inflationary aspects that

0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:37.040
<v Speaker 1>Biden really can't control, and probably the one that is

0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.720
<v Speaker 1>the most stubborn, is the FED. Talk to us about

0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:44.240
<v Speaker 1>what the FED is doing here with interest rates and

0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:46.520
<v Speaker 1>if they're going to have a rate cup before the election.

0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.720
<v Speaker 2>So the first thing that's important about what you said

0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.360
<v Speaker 2>is you said that Biden can't do anything about the FED.

0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.120
<v Speaker 2>That's because he's a grown up and Trump would be

0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:59.160
<v Speaker 2>railing against it. Trump at this point was railing against it.

0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:03.559
<v Speaker 2>This is a fact that happened through twenty nineteen, screaming

0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.400
<v Speaker 2>at the FED that despite inflation starting to show up,

0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.120
<v Speaker 2>he's screaming at them to do nothing about it. That's

0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:13.640
<v Speaker 2>an historical fact that happened. Economics nerds like me will

0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:17.560
<v Speaker 2>tell you that's very, very bad because all politicians scream

0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:21.360
<v Speaker 2>at the FED. And if that happened and the Fed responded,

0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.080
<v Speaker 2>then the Fed would never do anything to keep inflation down,

0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:27.160
<v Speaker 2>and inflation would run away. And so the responsible thing

0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:28.880
<v Speaker 2>to do is to tell the FED go away and

0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:30.920
<v Speaker 2>do your job, and I'm going to leave you alone.

0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:34.440
<v Speaker 2>And that's what Biden is choosing to do. So I

0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:36.760
<v Speaker 2>think that it's an investment in the future of our

0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:40.040
<v Speaker 2>economy at the cost of his political There's some small

0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:42.480
<v Speaker 2>political cost that he's paying now, but he's willing to

0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:44.960
<v Speaker 2>make that choice and I respect him for it. Now,

0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.160
<v Speaker 2>what the FED is trying to do is, you know,

0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.760
<v Speaker 2>inflation's down from rates as high as nine percent there

0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.640
<v Speaker 2>was an inflation crisis, down to roughly three percent right now.

0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.240
<v Speaker 2>The FED wants it down to two. And so this

0:13:57.400 --> 0:13:59.600
<v Speaker 2>is the last mile problem, which is we've got it

0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:03.520
<v Speaker 2>from high down to almost normal. Now for most people

0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:06.400
<v Speaker 2>the difference between normal and almost normal is not much

0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.160
<v Speaker 2>and it doesn't really affect our lives very much. We

0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:11.640
<v Speaker 2>have the memory of a bad inflation through twenty twenty

0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.200
<v Speaker 2>two and twenty three, but for most of twenty four

0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.000
<v Speaker 2>inflation's really been pretty normal. But the FED wants it

0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.920
<v Speaker 2>from almost normal all the way down to normal. That's

0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.160
<v Speaker 2>what it's worried about. That we're not quite there. It

0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.040
<v Speaker 2>does look like it's on its way there. We had

0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:27.520
<v Speaker 2>literally no inflation last month, none and so it's keeping

0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.520
<v Speaker 2>interest rates high enough for long enough that it can

0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.240
<v Speaker 2>be confident that it will get it all the way down.

0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.840
<v Speaker 2>And partly it's felt okay doing that because the economy,

0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:39.840
<v Speaker 2>the real economy, people getting jobs, people making stuff, has

0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.360
<v Speaker 2>been so strong. So it's managed to this is the

0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.360
<v Speaker 2>so called soft landing. It's managed to get inflation down

0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.640
<v Speaker 2>without creating a recession. And so because it appears not

0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:50.800
<v Speaker 2>to have inflicted that much pain, it's willing to do

0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:51.800
<v Speaker 2>a little more right now.

0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:57.160
<v Speaker 1>So interesting, Thank you so much, justin I hope you'll

0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.280
<v Speaker 1>come back when you're back in Michigan.

0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, mis week, it's fun. Australia's fun. You should all

0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:02.640
<v Speaker 2>come and visit.

0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:09.960
<v Speaker 1>Spring us here. And I bet you are trying to

0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:13.600
<v Speaker 1>look fashionable, So why not pick up some fashionable all

0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:18.320
<v Speaker 1>new Fast Politics merchandise. We just opened a news store

0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:22.880
<v Speaker 1>with all new designs just for you. Get t shirts, hoodies, hats,

0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:28.840
<v Speaker 1>and top bags. To grab some head to fastpolitics dot com.

0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:35.240
<v Speaker 1>Congressman Jared Huffman represents California's second district. Welcome to Fast Politics, Congressmen.

0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:37.040
<v Speaker 2>Great to be with you, Mollie, So.

0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.240
<v Speaker 1>Excited to have you. You know, I would love you to like,

0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.760
<v Speaker 1>give us a little backstory on how you got involved

0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:45.840
<v Speaker 1>in this. You've been in Congress for a while. Give

0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:49.160
<v Speaker 1>us a sort of introduction to how you got here

0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:52.200
<v Speaker 1>and what you sort of your passions in Congress are,

0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:52.840
<v Speaker 1>et cetera.

0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:54.160
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely well.

0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.360
<v Speaker 3>Look, I came to Congress twelve years ago mainly to

0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.920
<v Speaker 3>do environmental work. I'm a former our metal lawyer at

0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:03.400
<v Speaker 3>the NRDC, did that work for six years in the

0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.200
<v Speaker 3>state legislature. I find myself now kind of on the

0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.320
<v Speaker 3>front lines of trying to hang onto our democracy against

0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:12.840
<v Speaker 3>this terrible MAGA threat and Christian nationalism and all these

0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.640
<v Speaker 3>other awful things that I couldn't have foreseen when I

0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.760
<v Speaker 3>first ran for Congress. But that's the fight that I'm in,

0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:21.040
<v Speaker 3>and I'm trying to do my part. I had a

0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.880
<v Speaker 3>briefing maybe two months ago as part of the Progressive

0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:27.360
<v Speaker 3>Caucus on Project twenty twenty five. Thought I knew generally

0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.920
<v Speaker 3>what it was, but I have to say I was

0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:34.080
<v Speaker 3>seriously alarmed after that briefing, after understanding the groups behind it,

0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:38.080
<v Speaker 3>the explicitness of the extremism, the sweeping nature of this

0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:42.720
<v Speaker 3>authoritarian blueprint for what the Republicans will do, not what

0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:46.000
<v Speaker 3>they sort of fantasize about doing, but what they absolutely

0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.640
<v Speaker 3>will do if they take power in this election, and

0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.840
<v Speaker 3>I concluded that Democrats need to step up and do

0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:55.080
<v Speaker 3>much more to spotlight it and fight against it while

0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:55.840
<v Speaker 3>we still have time.

0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.360
<v Speaker 1>One of the sort of key jug or not a

0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.960
<v Speaker 1>project twenty twenty five is the same thing as this

0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.800
<v Speaker 1>Supreme Court right is to dismantle the administrative state, to

0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:12.480
<v Speaker 1>get environmentalists out of the EPA, to strip science from government.

0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:15.440
<v Speaker 1>It's a larger gestault, and it really is, I think

0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:17.399
<v Speaker 1>one of the few things they believe in at this

0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.399
<v Speaker 1>point in the Republican Party. Can you say more about that?

0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, if you look through the chapters, and you know,

0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:25.320
<v Speaker 3>nobody's going to have time to wade through nine hundred

0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:29.679
<v Speaker 3>and twenty pages of by designing manifesto, but you know

0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.399
<v Speaker 3>our task force and you and others will help to

0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:34.840
<v Speaker 3>distill this for people. But if you look through it,

0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:41.320
<v Speaker 3>every aspect of government is sort of consolidated into executive power.

0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:43.480
<v Speaker 3>And what do they want to do with that? Well,

0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:46.639
<v Speaker 3>in almost every single agency, it's about weaponizing it to

0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:51.360
<v Speaker 3>advance this authoritarian right wing agenda, including going after their

0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:55.360
<v Speaker 3>political opponents. So even even some of the seemingly innocuous

0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:58.640
<v Speaker 3>parts of Project twenty twenty five, like bringing the FCC

0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:03.520
<v Speaker 3>under jure presidential power, ending the independence that many of

0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:05.440
<v Speaker 3>these agencies have typically had.

0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:06.160
<v Speaker 2>What's that about.

0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:10.160
<v Speaker 3>Well, it's about President Trump having basically singular power over

0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:13.640
<v Speaker 3>which corporate mergers go through and how we control immedia.

0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:19.520
<v Speaker 1>This is like this Russia fantasy air dewan kind of authoritarianism,

0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.399
<v Speaker 1>the idea that you know, you pick the winners and

0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:23.520
<v Speaker 1>the losers. Right.

0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:27.920
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, this unitary executive theory is all about that, and

0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:29.920
<v Speaker 3>it's all over Project twenty twenty five.

0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:32.879
<v Speaker 1>Can you say more about unitary executive theory because that

0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:35.800
<v Speaker 1>is sort of held up at the heart of the project.

0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:36.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.160
<v Speaker 3>So this is the theory that we've heard espoused, you know,

0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:42.159
<v Speaker 3>during the first Trump administration by Bill Barr and others.

0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.240
<v Speaker 3>It's a theory they've advanced in some of their legal

0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:50.159
<v Speaker 3>arguments before the courts, where the president basically can dictate

0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:54.000
<v Speaker 3>everything that the executive branch does all of these agencies,

0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.360
<v Speaker 3>including the Department of Justice, telling them who to prosecute,

0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:01.440
<v Speaker 3>how to handle cases, what the FBI should investigate. If

0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:04.159
<v Speaker 3>we even have an FBI under these guys, it's just

0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.800
<v Speaker 3>sweeping and you know, kind of terrifying.

0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:11.040
<v Speaker 1>One of the things about this thesis, and I think

0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:14.439
<v Speaker 1>it's Project twenty twenty five, but I also think Project

0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.879
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty five just puts on paper, just like Roger

0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Stone brags about it, the things that the Supreme Court

0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:24.080
<v Speaker 1>is quietly trying to do. And so I'm hoping you

0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:27.879
<v Speaker 1>could talk about there is a play towards greater regulation

0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:33.760
<v Speaker 1>of women's reproduction. Wow, no regulation of oil and gas,

0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:35.919
<v Speaker 1>So make that make sense.

0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:40.560
<v Speaker 3>So there's the paradox, right, they want to absolutely control

0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:42.879
<v Speaker 3>women in their bodies. They want to tell them, you know,

0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:45.159
<v Speaker 3>which babies they have to have and which ones they

0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:47.359
<v Speaker 3>can't have because they're coming after IVF.

0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.720
<v Speaker 1>When you read that IVF regulation thing, it's just I mean,

0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:54.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, they say, well, it's never been regulating. All

0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:56.760
<v Speaker 1>you care about is ending regulation. But somehow you're going

0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:58.119
<v Speaker 1>to do it on IVF anyway, go on.

0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:00.359
<v Speaker 3>Sorry, Yeah, and they're going to bring the FDA under

0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:04.159
<v Speaker 3>executive control as well, so get ready for that. No,

0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:07.280
<v Speaker 3>you're absolutely right. When it comes to corporate America and

0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:10.919
<v Speaker 3>business in the fossil fuel industry, the regulatory state's going

0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:13.840
<v Speaker 3>to be gutted. There are no regulations that they like

0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:17.479
<v Speaker 3>at all. So it's sort of a libertarian dystopia in

0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:20.080
<v Speaker 3>that space. But when it comes to individual liberties and

0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:26.199
<v Speaker 3>individual rights, church state separation, LGBTQ, community reproductive choice, the

0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:28.200
<v Speaker 3>heavy hand of government is there in a big way.

0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:31.520
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely beyond we are now. One of the things that

0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:34.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm hoping you could explain to us a little bit

0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.160
<v Speaker 1>about is where you think this sort of came from.

0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.879
<v Speaker 1>I mean, obviously this comes from Trump to some extent,

0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:43.399
<v Speaker 1>but this clearly has longer tentacles than Trump, and it's

0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:47.680
<v Speaker 1>hard to imagine Trump cooking up anything that is more

0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:49.560
<v Speaker 1>than just sort of the gut instinct.

0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:52.639
<v Speaker 3>It's a codependency I think. I mean, Trump likes this

0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:56.399
<v Speaker 3>because it favors authoritarianism and the kind of things that

0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:59.840
<v Speaker 3>he wants. But the far right conservative movement has been

0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:02.359
<v Speaker 3>pishing many of these things for a long time as well.

0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:05.879
<v Speaker 3>The Christian nationalist movement wants so many of these things,

0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:08.600
<v Speaker 3>the culture war elements, and so I think, you know,

0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.960
<v Speaker 3>there's a great synergy between our aspiring dictator and these

0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:14.680
<v Speaker 3>extremist right wing groups that want this agenda.

0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:17.480
<v Speaker 1>I just said David Wallace Wells just interviewing him, and

0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:21.199
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about how in every environmental person I talk to,

0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.080
<v Speaker 1>not everyone, but a lot of them, there's a lot

0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:27.439
<v Speaker 1>of optimism because even though the temperature is a rising

0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:29.960
<v Speaker 1>too fast and we're not where we need to be

0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:32.400
<v Speaker 1>with the Paris Accord, there is a sense in which

0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:37.720
<v Speaker 1>renewables are so cheap that fossil fuels really is becoming

0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:41.879
<v Speaker 1>so much closer to coal just price wise, that it

0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:46.080
<v Speaker 1>will really take a lot of government subsidies to keep

0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:48.480
<v Speaker 1>oil and gas going. I mean, I think that is

0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.880
<v Speaker 1>still what Republicans want. I mean, it's such a paradox

0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:55.600
<v Speaker 1>here because we have so many businesses like local news

0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:59.959
<v Speaker 1>or even you know, newspapers in general, right, like nonprofit

0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:04.040
<v Speaker 1>newsrooms that would desperately could desperately use these subsidies, and

0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:07.240
<v Speaker 1>instead they're going to oil and gas, they're going to coal,

0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:10.160
<v Speaker 1>They're going to things that kill the planet, and don't

0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:11.760
<v Speaker 1>do anything. Talk to us about that.

0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:14.560
<v Speaker 3>Well, there's no question that we continue to subsidize the

0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:18.080
<v Speaker 3>fossil fuel industry in a big way. I share your

0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:23.160
<v Speaker 3>optimism about clean energy eventually winning out on the economics

0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:26.360
<v Speaker 3>if nothing else, but what continues to disturb me is

0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:29.240
<v Speaker 3>that we don't have time to wait for the market

0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:32.800
<v Speaker 3>to realize all of that. We've got a climate crisis

0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:36.000
<v Speaker 3>that is compelling us to speed up. And that's where

0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:39.160
<v Speaker 3>Project twenty twenty five in the clean energy and environmental

0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:42.000
<v Speaker 3>space isn't necessarily anything new. We've seen this right wing

0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:44.800
<v Speaker 3>agenda for years, but the fact that they're proposing to

0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:47.320
<v Speaker 3>run out the clock on another four to eight years

0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:51.119
<v Speaker 3>could be the endgame for our ability to confront the

0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:52.000
<v Speaker 3>climate crisis.

0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:55.720
<v Speaker 1>That is for sure true. The thing that I always

0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:58.920
<v Speaker 1>think about is that when the pandemic came, I had

0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:01.880
<v Speaker 1>this moment where I thought, Okay, this is it. Science

0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:04.280
<v Speaker 1>is going to win. Americans are going to be like

0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:08.760
<v Speaker 1>the people telling us to take horse dewormer. They're wrong

0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:12.000
<v Speaker 1>because it doesn't treat COVID vaccines work like this is

0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:15.360
<v Speaker 1>going to be the moment, and instead none of that happened.

0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:18.359
<v Speaker 1>The right just decided that Anthony Fauci needs to go

0:23:18.400 --> 0:23:21.400
<v Speaker 1>to jail. I mean, you have been doing environmental law

0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:23.959
<v Speaker 1>for a long time, so maybe you were less naive

0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:26.760
<v Speaker 1>than I was, but I was shocked.

0:23:27.160 --> 0:23:32.359
<v Speaker 3>I didn't anticipate the degree of backsliding and ignorance and

0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:36.960
<v Speaker 3>self destruction really that we saw in some of that conspiracism.

0:23:37.080 --> 0:23:39.560
<v Speaker 3>So it was an eye opener, But it wasn't just

0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:42.080
<v Speaker 3>here in the United States. We've seen the same kind

0:23:42.080 --> 0:23:46.280
<v Speaker 3>of backlash against science and liberalism in these right wing

0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:49.080
<v Speaker 3>movements around Europe and in other parts of the world.

0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:52.360
<v Speaker 3>So I think we've got a real reckoning here between

0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:55.520
<v Speaker 3>science and our ability to live in community with common

0:23:55.600 --> 0:24:00.560
<v Speaker 3>sense and this revivalism, in many cases driven and by

0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:04.280
<v Speaker 3>extreme right wing Christian nationalism, not just here in the US,

0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:06.680
<v Speaker 3>but in Hungary and other places. We got to choose

0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:07.960
<v Speaker 3>which century we want to live in.

0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:11.760
<v Speaker 1>So crazy, like when you think about how to get

0:24:11.800 --> 0:24:14.879
<v Speaker 1>everybody on the same page, right like right now, we

0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:17.960
<v Speaker 1>have a problem which is some percentage of the country

0:24:18.000 --> 0:24:20.080
<v Speaker 1>and I'm not willing to say it's forty two percent.

0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:23.160
<v Speaker 1>I think it's lower. But some percentage of the country

0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:26.800
<v Speaker 1>of America doesn't share the same reality that we do.

0:24:27.240 --> 0:24:30.320
<v Speaker 1>And they think that there's a child pedophile ring. They

0:24:30.359 --> 0:24:33.200
<v Speaker 1>think that climate change is a hoax made up by

0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:35.680
<v Speaker 1>the Chinese to sell cars. I mean, they think a

0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:38.640
<v Speaker 1>lot of stuff. They think COVID isn't real, they think

0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:43.160
<v Speaker 1>the Sandy Hook kids weren't murdered. These are provable facts, right,

0:24:43.200 --> 0:24:46.399
<v Speaker 1>that are not true. So in your mind when you

0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:49.200
<v Speaker 1>look at like, you know, part of this is fracturing

0:24:49.240 --> 0:24:51.600
<v Speaker 1>of the mainstream media. Part of this is social media.

0:24:51.720 --> 0:24:55.080
<v Speaker 1>But what do you think is the thing that the

0:24:55.119 --> 0:24:59.359
<v Speaker 1>government can do to sort of try to provide a

0:25:00.440 --> 0:25:03.199
<v Speaker 1>coherent reality of things that are true.

0:25:03.320 --> 0:25:06.440
<v Speaker 3>I'm not sure the government can do it. I think

0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:08.520
<v Speaker 3>all of us have a role to play. I mean,

0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:11.640
<v Speaker 3>you mentioned the fracturing of the media, and I think

0:25:11.640 --> 0:25:13.560
<v Speaker 3>that's just a huge part of this. I think our

0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:17.600
<v Speaker 3>information ecosystem has just changed. We haven't quite figured out

0:25:17.640 --> 0:25:21.320
<v Speaker 3>what to do with this plethora of junk that's out

0:25:21.320 --> 0:25:25.280
<v Speaker 3>there and malicious stuff where people are monetizing conflict and

0:25:25.359 --> 0:25:29.320
<v Speaker 3>ignorance and disinformation, and it's big business. So we've got

0:25:29.320 --> 0:25:31.240
<v Speaker 3>a lot of work to do there. There's pieces of

0:25:31.280 --> 0:25:33.200
<v Speaker 3>it that I think we can do through public policy.

0:25:33.240 --> 0:25:35.439
<v Speaker 3>But I'll tell you one part of Project twenty twenty

0:25:35.440 --> 0:25:37.760
<v Speaker 3>five that is taking us in the wrong direction of this.

0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:39.720
<v Speaker 3>To bring it back to that, they're going to get

0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:41.560
<v Speaker 3>the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:43.159
<v Speaker 4>You know, one of the few places.

0:25:42.800 --> 0:25:46.600
<v Speaker 3>Where you can yeah, where you can get trusted you know,

0:25:46.800 --> 0:25:51.200
<v Speaker 3>good deep politicized information is PBS, and they don't like it.

0:25:51.400 --> 0:25:55.480
<v Speaker 1>One of the things that it seems to me, could

0:25:55.560 --> 0:25:57.480
<v Speaker 1>be a solve Section two thirty.

0:25:57.760 --> 0:26:01.000
<v Speaker 3>There's actually still some space for bipartieship when it comes

0:26:01.040 --> 0:26:04.359
<v Speaker 3>to Section two thirty and some of this corporate accountability

0:26:04.520 --> 0:26:07.800
<v Speaker 3>in the media space. I don't trust these folks at

0:26:07.800 --> 0:26:12.480
<v Speaker 3>the Heritage Foundation and a potential Trump administration for striking

0:26:12.480 --> 0:26:14.800
<v Speaker 3>the right balance and getting that right. They say some

0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:16.840
<v Speaker 3>up the right things, but I don't trust them.

0:26:16.920 --> 0:26:20.360
<v Speaker 1>But it is interesting to see Josh Holly, who has

0:26:20.600 --> 0:26:23.679
<v Speaker 1>been on the wrong side of so many things, be

0:26:23.880 --> 0:26:27.520
<v Speaker 1>on the right side of interviewing that Boeing CEO. Right,

0:26:27.600 --> 0:26:30.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean there is a groundswell in America. I mean

0:26:30.960 --> 0:26:34.920
<v Speaker 1>we're a country where there's such a huge wealth and equity.

0:26:35.200 --> 0:26:38.960
<v Speaker 1>There is a sense here in which I think Congress

0:26:39.000 --> 0:26:42.480
<v Speaker 1>has an opportunity to let people know they're listening to them.

0:26:42.760 --> 0:26:45.879
<v Speaker 1>Will you go with us just for a minute about

0:26:45.920 --> 0:26:49.240
<v Speaker 1>what the things you guys are doing to prepare us

0:26:49.280 --> 0:26:51.639
<v Speaker 1>for Project twenty twenty five and what you can do

0:26:51.680 --> 0:26:52.480
<v Speaker 1>and what that looks like.

0:26:52.720 --> 0:26:57.120
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely so, by far the most important thing that Congress

0:26:57.160 --> 0:26:59.040
<v Speaker 3>can do through this task force that all of us

0:26:59.080 --> 0:27:02.240
<v Speaker 3>can really do is to bring Project twenty twenty five

0:27:02.280 --> 0:27:05.160
<v Speaker 3>out of the shadows of this right wing fever swamp,

0:27:05.520 --> 0:27:09.400
<v Speaker 3>spotlight it, make it understood. I saw some polling yesterday

0:27:09.400 --> 0:27:12.080
<v Speaker 3>that only twelve percent of Americans have even heard of

0:27:12.119 --> 0:27:15.400
<v Speaker 3>Project twenty twenty five. Crazy, and when they just sort

0:27:15.440 --> 0:27:18.240
<v Speaker 3>of hear about it generically, you know, it doesn't seem

0:27:18.280 --> 0:27:20.520
<v Speaker 3>like that big a deal to them. When we explain

0:27:20.560 --> 0:27:23.880
<v Speaker 3>it to them, though, This is where this gets really interesting.

0:27:24.000 --> 0:27:26.439
<v Speaker 3>The numbers are off the charts. The negative reaction to

0:27:26.480 --> 0:27:30.160
<v Speaker 3>Project twenty twenty five is extreme, and it's especially strong

0:27:30.520 --> 0:27:35.679
<v Speaker 3>with independence. You rarely find like overwhelming you unanimity among independents.

0:27:35.880 --> 0:27:38.840
<v Speaker 3>The opposition to Project twenty twenty five just with some

0:27:38.960 --> 0:27:43.240
<v Speaker 3>basic explanation of it jumps to eighty eight percent among independents.

0:27:43.560 --> 0:27:46.480
<v Speaker 3>So this is a winning message for us right now,

0:27:46.720 --> 0:27:50.280
<v Speaker 3>simply explaining what they're promising that they're going to do.

0:27:50.440 --> 0:27:52.879
<v Speaker 3>It's that straightforward, and I think this should just be

0:27:52.880 --> 0:27:55.439
<v Speaker 3>a huge part of our closing argument heading into the election.

0:27:55.800 --> 0:27:59.160
<v Speaker 1>The general idea of Project twenty twenty five is this

0:27:59.280 --> 0:28:03.080
<v Speaker 1>idea that you will destroy the federal government in such

0:28:03.119 --> 0:28:06.760
<v Speaker 1>a way and then replace those people with cronies. Do

0:28:06.800 --> 0:28:09.800
<v Speaker 1>you have ways to protect some of these federal employees.

0:28:10.119 --> 0:28:13.399
<v Speaker 3>Look, if we somehow let these guys have power, you know,

0:28:13.520 --> 0:28:15.959
<v Speaker 3>there's no scenario where we roll over and just let

0:28:16.040 --> 0:28:18.840
<v Speaker 3>them do all these things. You will use the court system,

0:28:18.960 --> 0:28:21.520
<v Speaker 3>you will litigate these things. You know, if we have

0:28:21.640 --> 0:28:25.320
<v Speaker 3>one or both houses of Congress, there's oversight and per

0:28:25.440 --> 0:28:28.679
<v Speaker 3>string levers that we can use. But the most definitive

0:28:28.680 --> 0:28:31.240
<v Speaker 3>way to stop this is to win the election. That's

0:28:31.280 --> 0:28:33.560
<v Speaker 3>the point that we're really trying to make here is

0:28:33.600 --> 0:28:36.719
<v Speaker 3>the American people have an opportunity to kill this in

0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:39.680
<v Speaker 3>its tracks, and we got to do that because, yeah,

0:28:39.680 --> 0:28:42.640
<v Speaker 3>we'll keep fighting if we don't win, but there are

0:28:42.640 --> 0:28:44.600
<v Speaker 3>no guarantees, no right.

0:28:44.760 --> 0:28:49.320
<v Speaker 1>And I think that what's really important is that things

0:28:49.320 --> 0:28:53.600
<v Speaker 1>have gone so much worse. I mean, these guys are

0:28:53.680 --> 0:28:55.880
<v Speaker 1>ready to go on day one in a way they

0:28:55.880 --> 0:28:59.080
<v Speaker 1>weren't before. And I think you know, one of the

0:28:59.120 --> 0:29:03.120
<v Speaker 1>things that Trump able to do, which was really a roarchack,

0:29:03.280 --> 0:29:04.920
<v Speaker 1>was he was able to say, like, I'm not as

0:29:04.960 --> 0:29:07.400
<v Speaker 1>conservative as all these lunatics because i come from New

0:29:07.480 --> 0:29:10.360
<v Speaker 1>York and I've been married ten million times et cetera,

0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:13.640
<v Speaker 1>et cetera. But that was that ultimately wasn't true because

0:29:13.640 --> 0:29:15.600
<v Speaker 1>he didn't care about policy, so we just let them

0:29:15.600 --> 0:29:18.080
<v Speaker 1>do whatever he wanted, whatever they wanted, the sort of

0:29:18.160 --> 0:29:22.160
<v Speaker 1>Koch brothers crew and much more conservative than the Kochs. Right,

0:29:22.400 --> 0:29:25.280
<v Speaker 1>how do you explain Project twenty twenty five to people

0:29:25.760 --> 0:29:27.480
<v Speaker 1>in the quickest possible way?

0:29:27.840 --> 0:29:30.520
<v Speaker 3>So I think you have to start by talking about

0:29:30.560 --> 0:29:35.400
<v Speaker 3>the extremism and the attack on democracy, the authoritarianism, the

0:29:35.480 --> 0:29:38.800
<v Speaker 3>sweeping away of checks and balances on executive power, and

0:29:38.840 --> 0:29:41.120
<v Speaker 3>then you've got to get right into the individual rights

0:29:41.120 --> 0:29:44.240
<v Speaker 3>and liberties. There are other parts of Project twenty twenty

0:29:44.280 --> 0:29:46.560
<v Speaker 3>five that are also alarming, but those are the ones

0:29:46.600 --> 0:29:50.240
<v Speaker 3>that resonate strongest according to the polling with people, and

0:29:50.720 --> 0:29:52.280
<v Speaker 3>I think we've got to lead with that.

0:29:52.600 --> 0:29:56.920
<v Speaker 1>You come from environmental law. Quietly, the Biden administration has

0:29:57.000 --> 0:30:00.440
<v Speaker 1>done some incredible environmental progressive policies. Can can you talk

0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:00.840
<v Speaker 1>about them?

0:30:00.920 --> 0:30:01.720
<v Speaker 2>Vern Minna? Well?

0:30:01.760 --> 0:30:02.360
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely.

0:30:02.400 --> 0:30:05.240
<v Speaker 3>Look, I'm a climate action guy, I'm a climate hawk.

0:30:05.480 --> 0:30:08.840
<v Speaker 3>I'm never going to be satisfied because we're winning slowly

0:30:08.920 --> 0:30:11.480
<v Speaker 3>is losing when it comes to the climate crisis. But

0:30:11.760 --> 0:30:14.080
<v Speaker 3>I've got to give this administration a lot of credit.

0:30:14.120 --> 0:30:18.800
<v Speaker 3>We have taken stronger, bolder, more transformational climate actions than

0:30:18.800 --> 0:30:21.640
<v Speaker 3>any presidency in history. We've still got a lot more

0:30:21.640 --> 0:30:23.959
<v Speaker 3>work to do. There's still too much fossil fuel business

0:30:23.960 --> 0:30:27.400
<v Speaker 3>as usual, but it is very significant, and we've built

0:30:27.440 --> 0:30:30.160
<v Speaker 3>a foundation. So look, we had to choke down some

0:30:30.280 --> 0:30:33.280
<v Speaker 3>terrible fossil fuel provisions in the Inflation Reduction Act from

0:30:33.360 --> 0:30:35.960
<v Speaker 3>Joe Manchin, for example, Joe Mansion's got to be gone.

0:30:36.080 --> 0:30:39.720
<v Speaker 3>We can go right to work undoing those Mansion pieces

0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:42.720
<v Speaker 3>and continuing to make further progress on the good pieces

0:30:42.760 --> 0:30:44.520
<v Speaker 3>of that. And that's the kind of work that I

0:30:44.560 --> 0:30:47.200
<v Speaker 3>want to do. You can't do that in a Trump administration.

0:30:47.480 --> 0:30:50.800
<v Speaker 3>You can't do that with a Republican the majority in

0:30:50.840 --> 0:30:53.400
<v Speaker 3>both houses of Congress. So it brings us right back

0:30:53.480 --> 0:30:55.320
<v Speaker 3>to what's at stake in this election.

0:30:55.640 --> 0:30:59.120
<v Speaker 1>I can't tell what's my bubble, my media bubb all

0:30:59.240 --> 0:31:03.520
<v Speaker 1>my own fantasy of how the world is and what,

0:31:03.640 --> 0:31:05.760
<v Speaker 1>because you know, the reality is all the information we're

0:31:05.760 --> 0:31:08.240
<v Speaker 1>getting his polls, and a lot of these polls are broken,

0:31:08.880 --> 0:31:11.800
<v Speaker 1>so we really none of us really know what's going

0:31:11.880 --> 0:31:15.120
<v Speaker 1>to happen. But it does seem to me that there

0:31:15.200 --> 0:31:20.160
<v Speaker 1>aren't a lot of Republican policies that they're shopping here, right.

0:31:20.160 --> 0:31:22.520
<v Speaker 1>I mean Trump says crazy stuff to get elected. Right,

0:31:22.560 --> 0:31:24.960
<v Speaker 1>He's not going to make people pay taxes on tips.

0:31:25.040 --> 0:31:26.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how that's going to work. You know,

0:31:26.680 --> 0:31:29.840
<v Speaker 1>he's going to cut the Nevada right exactly in a

0:31:29.920 --> 0:31:32.200
<v Speaker 1>place where the service industry is the big business. And

0:31:32.240 --> 0:31:35.400
<v Speaker 1>then he goes and says, you know that he's going

0:31:35.440 --> 0:31:39.600
<v Speaker 1>to cut taxes and just have tariffs. I mean, wildly inflationary,

0:31:39.680 --> 0:31:42.000
<v Speaker 1>completely crazy. But it doesn't seem to me like the

0:31:42.040 --> 0:31:47.400
<v Speaker 1>Republicans have a ton of policy. Besides this crazy dystopian stuff.

0:31:47.560 --> 0:31:51.240
<v Speaker 3>Trump is an empty vessel himself. Policy for Donald Trump

0:31:51.320 --> 0:31:54.680
<v Speaker 3>is just power. He just wants power. I would say

0:31:54.760 --> 0:31:57.280
<v Speaker 3>it's different with these groups. And it's not just the

0:31:57.280 --> 0:32:01.280
<v Speaker 3>Heritage Foundation authoring Project twenty twenty. It's one hundred and

0:32:01.360 --> 0:32:05.040
<v Speaker 3>eight I think now leading right wing groups. It's groups

0:32:05.040 --> 0:32:08.240
<v Speaker 3>that have been at the front line of the culture war,

0:32:08.480 --> 0:32:11.640
<v Speaker 3>like you know this fake church, the Family Research Council,

0:32:11.920 --> 0:32:15.320
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, yeah, the Alliance Defending Freedom, which is this

0:32:15.440 --> 0:32:18.440
<v Speaker 3>crazy right wing group that Mike Johnson used to work

0:32:18.480 --> 0:32:21.040
<v Speaker 3>for as an attorney. I mean, they want a nationwide

0:32:21.080 --> 0:32:23.400
<v Speaker 3>abortion band. They want to get women back in the

0:32:23.520 --> 0:32:28.080
<v Speaker 3>kitchen and under their complete control. It is extreme and

0:32:28.480 --> 0:32:31.600
<v Speaker 3>that is that's what policy means to these folks, and

0:32:31.800 --> 0:32:34.800
<v Speaker 3>they're going to get their way. I am convinced if

0:32:34.800 --> 0:32:37.800
<v Speaker 3>Donald Trump becomes the president and they take both houses

0:32:37.800 --> 0:32:40.280
<v Speaker 3>of Congress, they're not messing around here. This is really

0:32:40.280 --> 0:32:41.640
<v Speaker 3>what they want exactly.

0:32:41.720 --> 0:32:46.680
<v Speaker 1>It's so I mean, it's really scary and really important

0:32:46.760 --> 0:32:50.520
<v Speaker 1>to talk about. When you think about climate. Can you

0:32:50.600 --> 0:32:53.760
<v Speaker 1>give me like sort of what's on your climate legislation

0:32:53.880 --> 0:32:54.480
<v Speaker 1>wish list?

0:32:54.800 --> 0:32:57.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So we've got to do more in the clean

0:32:57.680 --> 0:33:00.800
<v Speaker 3>energy space. You know, the tax incentives we're great from

0:33:00.800 --> 0:33:04.200
<v Speaker 3>the Inflation Reduction Act. We've got to clean up things

0:33:04.320 --> 0:33:07.360
<v Speaker 3>like the incentives for fake climate solutions that we had

0:33:07.360 --> 0:33:10.479
<v Speaker 3>to choke down because of Joe Manchion. So, you know,

0:33:10.480 --> 0:33:14.640
<v Speaker 3>some of this blue hydrogen nonsense, the CO two pipelines,

0:33:14.760 --> 0:33:18.560
<v Speaker 3>the fiction of carbon capture and sequestration. We do not

0:33:18.720 --> 0:33:21.680
<v Speaker 3>have time for fake climate solutions in my opinion. So

0:33:22.160 --> 0:33:24.960
<v Speaker 3>we got to undo the damage from Joe Manchion and

0:33:25.160 --> 0:33:25.840
<v Speaker 3>keep pressing.

0:33:26.560 --> 0:33:28.840
<v Speaker 1>And that's hydrogen is in there right.

0:33:29.240 --> 0:33:31.960
<v Speaker 3>Jin if it's done wrong, can take us backward, no doubt.

0:33:31.960 --> 0:33:34.920
<v Speaker 3>About it, and the fossil fuel industry has every intention

0:33:35.000 --> 0:33:35.680
<v Speaker 3>of doing it wrong.

0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:40.600
<v Speaker 1>The minutia of climate seems like, like should Elon Musk

0:33:40.720 --> 0:33:43.240
<v Speaker 1>be building chargers? I mean it feels like there are

0:33:43.360 --> 0:33:46.440
<v Speaker 1>some of this stuff has gone to people who are

0:33:46.880 --> 0:33:50.240
<v Speaker 1>a little bit dicey. Clearly we need more chargers, Like

0:33:50.400 --> 0:33:53.080
<v Speaker 1>where are we with that? And can you talk about that?

0:33:53.440 --> 0:33:57.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm not as troubled by that. I don't like

0:33:57.280 --> 0:34:00.000
<v Speaker 3>Elon Musk, but I do like what Tesla has done

0:34:00.360 --> 0:34:03.560
<v Speaker 3>for the electrification of transportation. So you know, I think

0:34:03.680 --> 0:34:06.720
<v Speaker 3>that his charging network is now kind of extending out

0:34:06.760 --> 0:34:09.279
<v Speaker 3>to other companies. Tesla is not going to have the

0:34:09.360 --> 0:34:11.920
<v Speaker 3>kind of dominance that it once had, although it's kind

0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:14.960
<v Speaker 3>of standard is going to be the one that probably prevails.

0:34:15.040 --> 0:34:17.800
<v Speaker 3>So I think all of that is fine. I'm a

0:34:17.840 --> 0:34:22.080
<v Speaker 3>little bit conflicted about these tariffs on Chinese eighties is

0:34:22.160 --> 0:34:25.760
<v Speaker 3>I think, frankly, our American car companies are not doing

0:34:25.760 --> 0:34:28.200
<v Speaker 3>as much as they should in a little competition to

0:34:28.320 --> 0:34:30.840
<v Speaker 3>kick them in the butt would not hurt the bottom

0:34:30.920 --> 0:34:32.960
<v Speaker 3>line that I always come back to on this, Molly's

0:34:33.000 --> 0:34:35.759
<v Speaker 3>we just don't have time. So anything that moves us

0:34:35.840 --> 0:34:39.360
<v Speaker 3>faster and further on decarbonization. You know, I tend to

0:34:39.400 --> 0:34:39.799
<v Speaker 3>be four.

0:34:40.120 --> 0:34:43.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, agreed, thank you, thank you, Thank you, Congressman

0:34:44.280 --> 0:34:47.560
<v Speaker 1>so important. I really appreciate you. I hope you will

0:34:47.600 --> 0:34:48.040
<v Speaker 1>come back.

0:34:48.320 --> 0:34:50.120
<v Speaker 3>I will, and thanks so much for having me.

0:34:50.320 --> 0:34:58.319
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate it. Simon Rosenberg is a political strategist and

0:34:58.360 --> 0:35:04.440
<v Speaker 1>the author of the Opium Chronicles. Welcome back to Fast Politics, Simon.

0:35:04.800 --> 0:35:07.719
<v Speaker 4>Great to be here with you, Molly always.

0:35:07.360 --> 0:35:11.239
<v Speaker 1>It's great to have you. So it's like, you know,

0:35:11.520 --> 0:35:14.200
<v Speaker 1>it's funny because it's like I actually was sort of

0:35:14.239 --> 0:35:16.880
<v Speaker 1>fighting with someone on the podcast, not really fighting, but

0:35:17.000 --> 0:35:19.680
<v Speaker 1>a little bit, and they were saying, well, you know,

0:35:20.200 --> 0:35:24.080
<v Speaker 1>it's so crazy that Republicans are doing as well as

0:35:24.080 --> 0:35:27.279
<v Speaker 1>they are in the United States when in the UK

0:35:28.080 --> 0:35:31.920
<v Speaker 1>the Tories are going to get decimated. And I was

0:35:31.960 --> 0:35:35.520
<v Speaker 1>thinking to myself, we don't know how Republicans are doing, right,

0:35:35.600 --> 0:35:37.360
<v Speaker 1>all we know are these polls.

0:35:37.640 --> 0:35:37.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:35:37.920 --> 0:35:41.120
<v Speaker 4>Look, it's not really an analogous situation, right.

0:35:41.280 --> 0:35:43.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm just saying, like, so much of the base of

0:35:43.640 --> 0:35:46.400
<v Speaker 1>knowledge that many of us are going on is because

0:35:46.400 --> 0:35:47.520
<v Speaker 1>of Poles.

0:35:47.120 --> 0:35:49.399
<v Speaker 4>Right, And I do want to say something now about

0:35:49.400 --> 0:35:51.279
<v Speaker 4>this because it's important, because this is going to come

0:35:51.320 --> 0:35:53.040
<v Speaker 4>up is that you know, the Tories have been in

0:35:53.080 --> 0:35:55.920
<v Speaker 4>power for a long time and have utterly failed. And

0:35:56.200 --> 0:35:59.239
<v Speaker 4>the difference between the Labor Party and the UK and

0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:02.160
<v Speaker 4>the Democratic in the US is that, you know, we

0:36:02.280 --> 0:36:05.760
<v Speaker 4>are the Democratic Party is the most successful center left

0:36:06.040 --> 0:36:09.279
<v Speaker 4>left political party in the developed world. There has been

0:36:09.360 --> 0:36:12.640
<v Speaker 4>no party that has done as well as we have,

0:36:12.840 --> 0:36:17.440
<v Speaker 4>even remotely close to us in Europe, in Japan, I mean,

0:36:17.440 --> 0:36:20.440
<v Speaker 4>we've won more votes that seven out of eight presidential elections.

0:36:20.440 --> 0:36:22.960
<v Speaker 4>I mean, most of the developed world, the left, the

0:36:23.000 --> 0:36:27.080
<v Speaker 4>center left has struggled, and here in the US we've

0:36:27.120 --> 0:36:30.080
<v Speaker 4>actually been wildly successful for a long period of time.

0:36:30.080 --> 0:36:33.000
<v Speaker 4>And I just want to establish that because I think

0:36:33.040 --> 0:36:36.000
<v Speaker 4>that we forget sometimes, you know, we're always sort of

0:36:36.000 --> 0:36:39.279
<v Speaker 4>feeling adversity as Democrats, right, And the truth is we're

0:36:39.320 --> 0:36:41.960
<v Speaker 4>part of the most successful modern center left party in

0:36:42.000 --> 0:36:43.920
<v Speaker 4>the developed world, and we should be proud of that.

0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:44.319
<v Speaker 3>I think.

0:36:44.320 --> 0:36:47.560
<v Speaker 4>In terms of your question about the polling, yeah, look,

0:36:47.640 --> 0:36:50.839
<v Speaker 4>I mean the polling right now. My view and where

0:36:50.880 --> 0:36:53.520
<v Speaker 4>the election is is that you know, in twenty twenty two,

0:36:53.680 --> 0:36:56.920
<v Speaker 4>what happened is that the election up until the spring

0:36:56.920 --> 0:37:00.400
<v Speaker 4>of twenty twenty two was largely about inflation and low

0:37:00.440 --> 0:37:04.160
<v Speaker 4>approval rating and COVID and then something changed the election.

0:37:04.440 --> 0:37:08.600
<v Speaker 4>That was Uvaldi, the January sixth Committee hearings, the Dobs league,

0:37:08.680 --> 0:37:11.560
<v Speaker 4>and then the Dobbs decision itself, and all of that

0:37:11.680 --> 0:37:16.560
<v Speaker 4>stuff congealed into this sort of big, ugly thing reminding

0:37:16.640 --> 0:37:20.440
<v Speaker 4>voters of the ugliness and the extremism of MAGA. And

0:37:20.719 --> 0:37:24.759
<v Speaker 4>the question in this cycle was what we have to

0:37:25.040 --> 0:37:28.920
<v Speaker 4>bring that ugliness into voters through our campaigns, as we

0:37:28.920 --> 0:37:31.280
<v Speaker 4>did in twenty twenty two, you know, with this assist

0:37:31.440 --> 0:37:35.319
<v Speaker 4>from events, or would events help us? And I think

0:37:35.360 --> 0:37:37.560
<v Speaker 4>that part of what's happened in the last few weeks

0:37:37.640 --> 0:37:40.600
<v Speaker 4>is there's some evidence that the verdict guilty, guilty, guilty

0:37:40.600 --> 0:37:43.560
<v Speaker 4>thirty four times has started shifting the election. The election

0:37:43.719 --> 0:37:46.319
<v Speaker 4>is changing, and I think that where we're entering now

0:37:46.360 --> 0:37:48.080
<v Speaker 4>and what everyone should realize that, you know, we're going

0:37:48.120 --> 0:37:50.120
<v Speaker 4>to have a debate in a few days, and the

0:37:50.160 --> 0:37:53.640
<v Speaker 4>Republican convention comes, and Trump's sentencing happens, and then our

0:37:53.719 --> 0:37:56.319
<v Speaker 4>convention and then another debate, and the election is now

0:37:56.400 --> 0:37:58.879
<v Speaker 4>hurtling at us with incredible speed. And I think we're

0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:01.799
<v Speaker 4>moving the twenty twenty four elections starting to become the

0:38:01.840 --> 0:38:05.680
<v Speaker 4>twenty twenty four election. It's starting to develop its own character.

0:38:05.800 --> 0:38:08.000
<v Speaker 4>And I think that in the last few weeks there

0:38:08.040 --> 0:38:11.600
<v Speaker 4>have been six national polls, credible, serious polls showing Biden

0:38:11.680 --> 0:38:14.240
<v Speaker 4>gaining between two and four points. I think the election

0:38:14.280 --> 0:38:16.960
<v Speaker 4>has shifted a few points in our direction, but it's

0:38:17.000 --> 0:38:19.640
<v Speaker 4>close and competitive, and we have a lot of work

0:38:19.640 --> 0:38:22.359
<v Speaker 4>to do. But I in every way imaginable, I would

0:38:22.440 --> 0:38:24.440
<v Speaker 4>much rather be less than them. I think it's far

0:38:24.560 --> 0:38:26.360
<v Speaker 4>more likely that we win than they do.

0:38:26.800 --> 0:38:30.359
<v Speaker 1>But with the twenty twenty two election and the twenty

0:38:30.360 --> 0:38:33.319
<v Speaker 1>twenty three election and all the specials, those were all

0:38:33.360 --> 0:38:36.959
<v Speaker 1>low turnet elections, so it was a different electorate, right,

0:38:37.040 --> 0:38:42.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean, what's happening here is there is a different electorate.

0:38:42.800 --> 0:38:45.439
<v Speaker 1>When we talk about polling, what we see is that

0:38:45.840 --> 0:38:51.520
<v Speaker 1>the pollsters are trying to guess about an electorate that

0:38:51.680 --> 0:38:55.319
<v Speaker 1>has shown up in twenty twenty and twenty sixteen and

0:38:55.440 --> 0:39:00.640
<v Speaker 1>never before and never after. So in some ways, you know,

0:39:00.719 --> 0:39:03.600
<v Speaker 1>there are certainly outside issues. But if you look at

0:39:03.920 --> 0:39:09.920
<v Speaker 1>every single election since twenty sixteen, Biden and Democrats more broadly,

0:39:10.040 --> 0:39:12.600
<v Speaker 1>and Biden wasn't on the ticket in the midterms, but

0:39:12.760 --> 0:39:15.600
<v Speaker 1>they have won so in my mind, the question is

0:39:15.680 --> 0:39:18.520
<v Speaker 1>what does a high turnout election look like in twenty

0:39:18.560 --> 0:39:21.440
<v Speaker 1>twenty four? And I think there's a lot of guessing

0:39:21.560 --> 0:39:22.560
<v Speaker 1>going on in the polling.

0:39:23.000 --> 0:39:25.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, let me. You raised some important things. Let me

0:39:25.440 --> 0:39:29.800
<v Speaker 4>take them on sequentially, because I think this whole theory

0:39:30.200 --> 0:39:33.920
<v Speaker 4>about low turnout and high turnout elections, I basically don't

0:39:34.120 --> 0:39:37.279
<v Speaker 4>ascribe to that. And the reason why is because I've

0:39:37.320 --> 0:39:40.520
<v Speaker 4>worked in campaigns. I've worked in politics, and every election

0:39:40.640 --> 0:39:43.600
<v Speaker 4>is a competition between two teams. And the notion that

0:39:43.719 --> 0:39:46.160
<v Speaker 4>somehow you could look at all these victories that we've

0:39:46.200 --> 0:39:49.280
<v Speaker 4>had in all sorts of elections all across the country,

0:39:49.360 --> 0:39:54.200
<v Speaker 4>ballot initiatives, state rep races, governors races, senate races, where

0:39:54.200 --> 0:39:56.839
<v Speaker 4>the two teams lined up and one team kept winning

0:39:56.880 --> 0:39:59.640
<v Speaker 4>and the other team kept losing, and that's somehow a

0:39:59.640 --> 0:40:01.719
<v Speaker 4>group of analysts looked at all that and said that's

0:40:01.760 --> 0:40:05.480
<v Speaker 4>actually bad for the winning team is absurd on its

0:40:05.920 --> 0:40:08.239
<v Speaker 4>face in my view. And then I think this is

0:40:08.239 --> 0:40:10.600
<v Speaker 4>almost like a Jedi mind trick that's happened to all

0:40:10.640 --> 0:40:14.920
<v Speaker 4>of the political commentary, and it could only be by people,

0:40:15.239 --> 0:40:17.480
<v Speaker 4>And who are the origins of this? People who haven't

0:40:17.480 --> 0:40:20.600
<v Speaker 4>actually worked on campaigns because those of us who've been

0:40:20.600 --> 0:40:23.759
<v Speaker 4>in campaigns recognize that every election you have no idea

0:40:23.760 --> 0:40:26.279
<v Speaker 4>if you're going to win. It's like a basketball game

0:40:26.320 --> 0:40:28.719
<v Speaker 4>and a tournament. You may be the favorite team, but

0:40:28.760 --> 0:40:30.239
<v Speaker 4>you got to go out and win the game, right,

0:40:30.280 --> 0:40:33.560
<v Speaker 4>and winning is really hard. And so first of all,

0:40:33.719 --> 0:40:36.839
<v Speaker 4>I just think this notion that we can look at

0:40:36.840 --> 0:40:40.920
<v Speaker 4>this extraordinary performance of the Democratic Party since Dobbs happened,

0:40:41.600 --> 0:40:44.440
<v Speaker 4>where parties in power, you know, going back to your

0:40:44.480 --> 0:40:47.879
<v Speaker 4>basic premise, right, we've won more votes in seven out

0:40:47.880 --> 0:40:51.240
<v Speaker 4>of eight presidential elections the last eight. That's the best

0:40:51.280 --> 0:40:53.560
<v Speaker 4>popular vote r out of an American political party in

0:40:53.600 --> 0:40:57.320
<v Speaker 4>our history. Second is that from night the last four elections,

0:40:57.360 --> 0:40:59.759
<v Speaker 4>we've averaged fifty one percent of the vote. That's the

0:40:59.800 --> 0:41:03.560
<v Speaker 4>best showing of the Democratic Party since FDRs for presidency

0:41:03.760 --> 0:41:08.760
<v Speaker 4>for presidential elections. Then post Dobbs, we've had the party

0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:13.399
<v Speaker 4>in power always loses seats in special elections, off your elections,

0:41:13.840 --> 0:41:17.799
<v Speaker 4>mid your midterm elections, and we've gained seats. And so

0:41:18.120 --> 0:41:21.160
<v Speaker 4>we've not only been on this extraordinary popular vote run,

0:41:21.800 --> 0:41:26.240
<v Speaker 4>we've also been in this extraordinary performance by a party

0:41:26.239 --> 0:41:29.480
<v Speaker 4>in power. And I think that it is. I think

0:41:29.480 --> 0:41:31.560
<v Speaker 4>it's my view and it's the view of the campaign.

0:41:31.640 --> 0:41:35.080
<v Speaker 4>Frankly from listening to them talk that the likely scenario

0:41:35.520 --> 0:41:37.680
<v Speaker 4>is that because the reason we've been winning is not

0:41:37.760 --> 0:41:40.840
<v Speaker 4>because of low turnout and audience, is that we have

0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:42.399
<v Speaker 4>better arguments than they do.

0:41:42.640 --> 0:41:46.600
<v Speaker 1>I agree that they run on nothing except Trump is God.

0:41:47.120 --> 0:41:49.920
<v Speaker 1>But I don't want to be like naive here, which

0:41:49.960 --> 0:41:53.399
<v Speaker 1>is it is a lower, smaller group of people. That's

0:41:53.400 --> 0:41:56.360
<v Speaker 1>why it's called lower turnout. The fact that Democrats have

0:41:56.480 --> 0:42:00.000
<v Speaker 1>sort of become the party that goes out at every

0:42:00.000 --> 0:42:05.560
<v Speaker 1>election is humongous and is a huge win for Democrats. Right,

0:42:05.640 --> 0:42:09.799
<v Speaker 1>they know what the stakes are. Obviously, you can't say

0:42:09.840 --> 0:42:12.040
<v Speaker 1>that the turnout is the same because it's not the

0:42:12.080 --> 0:42:14.319
<v Speaker 1>turnout for the presidential elections, and the turnout for the

0:42:14.480 --> 0:42:17.799
<v Speaker 1>midterms not the same. And I don't think Republicans are

0:42:17.840 --> 0:42:22.120
<v Speaker 1>offering anything, right, I mean, tax cuts for billionaires, extra

0:42:22.200 --> 0:42:25.120
<v Speaker 1>helping hand for oil companies. I mean, I don't think

0:42:25.200 --> 0:42:28.600
<v Speaker 1>as a normal voter, the pitch that Trump is making

0:42:28.800 --> 0:42:32.000
<v Speaker 1>is undoable. Right, He's going to lower inflation and he's

0:42:32.000 --> 0:42:34.680
<v Speaker 1>going to cut all taxes and then put a you know,

0:42:34.680 --> 0:42:37.120
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and ten percent tariff on everything. I mean,

0:42:37.160 --> 0:42:39.640
<v Speaker 1>he has no policy. This party has no policy. It

0:42:39.640 --> 0:42:42.759
<v Speaker 1>hasn't had a policy since twenty twenty when they got

0:42:42.840 --> 0:42:46.080
<v Speaker 1>rid of all the party platform. My theory of the

0:42:46.120 --> 0:42:50.000
<v Speaker 1>case is, look, you know, polls are pseudo events, they're

0:42:50.000 --> 0:42:53.439
<v Speaker 1>not necessarily real, and that if the numbers are sort

0:42:53.480 --> 0:42:55.120
<v Speaker 1>of moving in the right direction, that's a good sign.

0:42:55.239 --> 0:42:59.280
<v Speaker 1>I also think the pollsters are so freaked out from

0:42:59.440 --> 0:43:03.080
<v Speaker 1>being wrong about Trump in twenty sixteen and twenty twenty,

0:43:03.360 --> 0:43:06.920
<v Speaker 1>because remember they underestimated him both times, that there's a

0:43:06.960 --> 0:43:11.600
<v Speaker 1>certain kind of conservative bus stuff going on. Yeah, and

0:43:11.640 --> 0:43:14.080
<v Speaker 1>then they're flooding the zone with junkie polls too. I mean,

0:43:14.120 --> 0:43:16.239
<v Speaker 1>there's all sorts of things going on. But my question

0:43:16.400 --> 0:43:18.640
<v Speaker 1>is more like, what's your take at the end of

0:43:18.680 --> 0:43:19.040
<v Speaker 1>the day.

0:43:19.280 --> 0:43:21.200
<v Speaker 4>What I always believe to be the case, and I

0:43:21.239 --> 0:43:23.640
<v Speaker 4>think what the campaign has always believed to be the case,

0:43:23.680 --> 0:43:27.040
<v Speaker 4>is that when we put the choice in front of voters, right,

0:43:27.280 --> 0:43:30.920
<v Speaker 4>and we actually run ads, and we have this huge

0:43:30.960 --> 0:43:33.000
<v Speaker 4>amount of money that we're raising, which are giving us

0:43:33.000 --> 0:43:35.239
<v Speaker 4>the most powerful campaigns that we've ever had, both in

0:43:35.280 --> 0:43:39.120
<v Speaker 4>terms of controlling the information environment and also pushing our

0:43:39.120 --> 0:43:41.759
<v Speaker 4>performance on the ground. To the upper end of what's possible.

0:43:42.040 --> 0:43:44.759
<v Speaker 4>That the reason we keep winning is not because it's

0:43:44.760 --> 0:43:47.120
<v Speaker 4>a big electorate or a small electorate. Is that when

0:43:47.160 --> 0:43:52.279
<v Speaker 4>we take this this choice of pragmatic, good Democrats who've

0:43:52.280 --> 0:43:55.279
<v Speaker 4>made things better in people's lives and then this extremist,

0:43:55.640 --> 0:44:00.399
<v Speaker 4>freakish Maga party, that we overperform and win and they

0:44:00.640 --> 0:44:03.920
<v Speaker 4>underperform and struggle, And that this has happened again and

0:44:03.960 --> 0:44:06.640
<v Speaker 4>again and again, and that it is the likely scenario

0:44:06.680 --> 0:44:09.279
<v Speaker 4>for what's going to happen in this election when we

0:44:09.320 --> 0:44:12.400
<v Speaker 4>take the choice of the good Democratic Party and the

0:44:12.440 --> 0:44:15.760
<v Speaker 4>crazy Republican Party and we put it in front of voters,

0:44:16.120 --> 0:44:19.280
<v Speaker 4>funded backed up by all this money that we've been raising.

0:44:19.280 --> 0:44:21.839
<v Speaker 4>In the intensity I mean, this intensity that we at

0:44:22.120 --> 0:44:24.480
<v Speaker 4>in the Democratic Party, this sort of what has been

0:44:24.520 --> 0:44:27.680
<v Speaker 4>described as by analysts as sort of us doing really

0:44:27.680 --> 0:44:30.680
<v Speaker 4>well in these low turnout elections. That intensity is not

0:44:30.760 --> 0:44:33.839
<v Speaker 4>just translating into electoral victories because of voters. It's because

0:44:33.880 --> 0:44:37.880
<v Speaker 4>that intensity is driving unprecedent amounts of money, unprecedented numbers

0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:40.600
<v Speaker 4>of volunteers, and it's allowing us to build the most

0:44:40.640 --> 0:44:43.759
<v Speaker 4>powerful democratic political machine that we've ever had. And that's

0:44:43.880 --> 0:44:46.400
<v Speaker 4>part of the story that is being left out of

0:44:46.440 --> 0:44:49.640
<v Speaker 4>this analysis about the high turnout vote out election is

0:44:49.640 --> 0:44:53.319
<v Speaker 4>that that intensity and the money is allowing us to

0:44:53.360 --> 0:44:57.080
<v Speaker 4>continue to overperform in these elections. And I think it's

0:44:57.120 --> 0:45:00.960
<v Speaker 4>the general view that that's the likely scenario election. And yes,

0:45:01.080 --> 0:45:03.279
<v Speaker 4>I think that job we have a better candidate, we

0:45:03.320 --> 0:45:06.800
<v Speaker 4>have better arguments, we have a far better campaign apparatus,

0:45:06.920 --> 0:45:09.160
<v Speaker 4>and we are going to have the biggest political machine

0:45:09.160 --> 0:45:11.760
<v Speaker 4>that the Democratic Party has ever built in this election.

0:45:11.920 --> 0:45:14.560
<v Speaker 4>And so all of that leads me to be optimistic.

0:45:14.640 --> 0:45:17.359
<v Speaker 4>And you're right, no one I never said a good

0:45:17.400 --> 0:45:20.759
<v Speaker 4>accuse of saying that playing poll trutherism or saying the

0:45:20.800 --> 0:45:23.200
<v Speaker 4>polls were wrong. I never said that. What I said

0:45:23.280 --> 0:45:25.960
<v Speaker 4>was that I believe that the polls weren't determinative, and

0:45:26.000 --> 0:45:29.520
<v Speaker 4>that when we began our campaign started talking to voters,

0:45:29.680 --> 0:45:31.880
<v Speaker 4>that we had confidence that when we had talked to

0:45:31.960 --> 0:45:34.720
<v Speaker 4>voters and all of these other elections, we had seen

0:45:34.800 --> 0:45:37.680
<v Speaker 4>our numbers improved once the campaign has began, and because

0:45:37.719 --> 0:45:40.759
<v Speaker 4>we have a better argument, better candidate, better campaigns, and

0:45:40.840 --> 0:45:42.960
<v Speaker 4>that that is the likely scenario this time. And so

0:45:43.520 --> 0:45:47.000
<v Speaker 4>I remain deeply optimistic about where we are. And I

0:45:47.040 --> 0:45:49.520
<v Speaker 4>also think that what has happened in the last few

0:45:49.560 --> 0:45:53.560
<v Speaker 4>weeks is there is evidence that the verdict is acting

0:45:53.760 --> 0:45:58.040
<v Speaker 4>like a Dobbs like event in this election, where it

0:45:58.120 --> 0:46:02.120
<v Speaker 4>became in your based reminder of the ugliness of Trump

0:46:02.120 --> 0:46:05.799
<v Speaker 4>and MAGA that become unavoidable if the whole premise is

0:46:05.800 --> 0:46:08.640
<v Speaker 4>that people are starting to check into the election now

0:46:08.880 --> 0:46:11.560
<v Speaker 4>and that what they're checking into is that one party

0:46:11.560 --> 0:46:14.359
<v Speaker 4>as a serial criminal running and the other party has

0:46:14.440 --> 0:46:17.319
<v Speaker 4>a very successful president who's made people's lives better. You know,

0:46:17.360 --> 0:46:19.200
<v Speaker 4>I'll take that if that's going to be the way

0:46:19.239 --> 0:46:21.760
<v Speaker 4>we can frame this thing. And obviously the Biden campaign

0:46:21.840 --> 0:46:24.760
<v Speaker 4>right now is running a very very hard hitting ad

0:46:25.160 --> 0:46:27.959
<v Speaker 4>with a huge amount of money behind it, going right

0:46:28.040 --> 0:46:31.200
<v Speaker 4>into the felony convictions stuff and a sexual assault, the

0:46:31.239 --> 0:46:33.359
<v Speaker 4>fraud that he committed. You know that stuff is going

0:46:33.440 --> 0:46:35.480
<v Speaker 4>to hurt Trump. We already know this. I mean, the

0:46:35.480 --> 0:46:39.200
<v Speaker 4>political poll out this week showed that twenty one percent

0:46:39.239 --> 0:46:42.680
<v Speaker 4>of independent voters view the verdict as something that would

0:46:42.680 --> 0:46:45.200
<v Speaker 4>cause them to be less likely to vote for Trump,

0:46:45.360 --> 0:46:48.440
<v Speaker 4>and it's a voting issue for them, right and seven

0:46:48.480 --> 0:46:50.480
<v Speaker 4>percent of Republicans. I mean, if you add that up,

0:46:50.480 --> 0:46:53.440
<v Speaker 4>that's like five percent of the electorate is now saying

0:46:53.480 --> 0:46:56.080
<v Speaker 4>openly they're much less likely to vote for Trump, and

0:46:56.239 --> 0:46:59.840
<v Speaker 4>it's and it's so significant that it may alter their vote.

0:47:00.120 --> 0:47:02.680
<v Speaker 4>That's a lot of voters who have all of a

0:47:02.680 --> 0:47:05.840
<v Speaker 4>sudden become loosened from Trump in a very short period

0:47:05.880 --> 0:47:08.960
<v Speaker 4>of time, by the way, without any paid advertising or

0:47:09.000 --> 0:47:12.799
<v Speaker 4>paid communication to reinforce this, without the kind of what's

0:47:12.800 --> 0:47:14.279
<v Speaker 4>going to happen to Trump at the debate if he

0:47:14.320 --> 0:47:16.759
<v Speaker 4>shows up, you know, he's clearly going to get a

0:47:16.840 --> 0:47:20.440
<v Speaker 4>question at this debate about his misdeeds, and you know

0:47:20.520 --> 0:47:22.960
<v Speaker 4>it's going to be a really critical moment in the election.

0:47:23.120 --> 0:47:24.360
<v Speaker 4>I think because they're going to be a hell of

0:47:24.360 --> 0:47:26.360
<v Speaker 4>a lot of people watching. I think in this debate,

0:47:26.880 --> 0:47:28.840
<v Speaker 4>we don't really know. They don't know if it was

0:47:28.880 --> 0:47:31.400
<v Speaker 4>a real case and everything else, And you're going to

0:47:31.440 --> 0:47:35.720
<v Speaker 4>have credible CNN anchors talking about sexual assault, fraud, thirty

0:47:35.719 --> 0:47:38.440
<v Speaker 4>four felon accounts, right, And I think that you know,

0:47:38.480 --> 0:47:43.600
<v Speaker 4>we've never seen a politician have to survive something like this,

0:47:44.200 --> 0:47:46.280
<v Speaker 4>and I think it just if I can just finish,

0:47:46.320 --> 0:47:48.680
<v Speaker 4>is that I think that it reminds all of us

0:47:48.719 --> 0:47:50.960
<v Speaker 4>that we've been told that the Democrats took a big

0:47:51.040 --> 0:47:54.359
<v Speaker 4>risk backing Joe Biden. The big the far bigger risk

0:47:54.800 --> 0:47:58.319
<v Speaker 4>was getting behind a rapist, a fraud stir, you know,

0:47:58.360 --> 0:48:01.120
<v Speaker 4>a trader at a felon. No one's ever had to

0:48:01.120 --> 0:48:04.280
<v Speaker 4>try to sell a candidate like Trump to the public

0:48:04.320 --> 0:48:06.960
<v Speaker 4>and be successful with it. I still think it's unlikely

0:48:07.040 --> 0:48:08.040
<v Speaker 4>they will be this time.

0:48:08.360 --> 0:48:11.239
<v Speaker 1>One of the things that I'm struck by when we

0:48:11.360 --> 0:48:16.759
<v Speaker 1>talk about Trump, and you know, Biden is old, but

0:48:16.960 --> 0:48:21.239
<v Speaker 1>he is the incumbent. Incumbency is an enormous advantage. So

0:48:21.719 --> 0:48:24.160
<v Speaker 1>when there was so much, you know, they should kick

0:48:24.239 --> 0:48:27.320
<v Speaker 1>him out, drop him off the ticket, replace him with

0:48:27.760 --> 0:48:31.839
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the crazy takes that we heard coming out

0:48:31.880 --> 0:48:34.880
<v Speaker 1>of that. But I do think it is interesting how

0:48:35.040 --> 0:48:38.880
<v Speaker 1>skewed right the media is that that was the conversation

0:48:39.120 --> 0:48:41.280
<v Speaker 1>and not should Trump be on the ticket.

0:48:41.600 --> 0:48:43.840
<v Speaker 4>Part of the reason I began a substack and started

0:48:43.840 --> 0:48:46.759
<v Speaker 4>writing and sort of moved my work to this kind

0:48:46.760 --> 0:48:49.319
<v Speaker 4>of new media environment that we're all operating in. As

0:48:49.320 --> 0:48:52.040
<v Speaker 4>somebody who's a former journalist myself and been in this

0:48:52.080 --> 0:48:55.080
<v Speaker 4>business for a long time, I became very alarmed by

0:48:55.120 --> 0:48:57.200
<v Speaker 4>what happened in twenty twenty two at the Red Wave.

0:48:57.480 --> 0:49:00.520
<v Speaker 4>Because the Red Wave, the way that I described it

0:49:00.560 --> 0:49:02.800
<v Speaker 4>was that we had two sets of data in the

0:49:02.840 --> 0:49:05.880
<v Speaker 4>election in twenty twenty two. We had if you wanted

0:49:05.880 --> 0:49:08.359
<v Speaker 4>to see a Republican victory, there was data showing that.

0:49:08.400 --> 0:49:10.839
<v Speaker 4>If you wanted to see a close competitive election, there

0:49:10.880 --> 0:49:13.200
<v Speaker 4>was data showing that too. And instead of there being

0:49:13.239 --> 0:49:15.880
<v Speaker 4>a conversation about the tension in the data and that

0:49:15.920 --> 0:49:17.799
<v Speaker 4>there's you know that we don't really know where this

0:49:17.840 --> 0:49:20.840
<v Speaker 4>election is going to go. It's got conflicting data. Basically,

0:49:20.920 --> 0:49:24.680
<v Speaker 4>everybody sort of defaulted into the Republican narrative in the

0:49:24.719 --> 0:49:27.560
<v Speaker 4>final few weeks of the election, even though there was

0:49:27.600 --> 0:49:30.600
<v Speaker 4>an enormous amount of data suggesting that was not going

0:49:30.640 --> 0:49:34.440
<v Speaker 4>to happen, and ease in which the national media conversation

0:49:34.640 --> 0:49:38.520
<v Speaker 4>became red wave when alarmed me into some ways. It

0:49:38.960 --> 0:49:42.759
<v Speaker 4>demonstrated the power, I think of the ability of the

0:49:42.800 --> 0:49:45.640
<v Speaker 4>right wing media machine to sort of bully their stuff

0:49:45.680 --> 0:49:52.160
<v Speaker 4>into the system and overwhelm the resistance right of traditional journalists.

0:49:51.680 --> 0:49:55.120
<v Speaker 4>And I think we're in a dangerous place as a country.

0:49:55.120 --> 0:49:56.880
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I do think that we are facing an

0:49:56.960 --> 0:50:01.320
<v Speaker 4>unprecedented propaganda opparatus on the right that has the ability

0:50:01.320 --> 0:50:06.200
<v Speaker 4>to bully and dictate and push narratives into the mainstream

0:50:06.320 --> 0:50:09.520
<v Speaker 4>that don't deserve to be there. The challenge is can

0:50:09.560 --> 0:50:12.399
<v Speaker 4>the media resist it? And I think this time, going

0:50:12.440 --> 0:50:14.560
<v Speaker 4>back to that question you asked me at the very beginning,

0:50:14.920 --> 0:50:17.360
<v Speaker 4>like twenty twenty two, right now, the data is not

0:50:17.400 --> 0:50:19.759
<v Speaker 4>all pointing in the same direction. Right there's a lot

0:50:19.800 --> 0:50:23.280
<v Speaker 4>of data showing Biden being healthy and strong in winning

0:50:23.320 --> 0:50:25.960
<v Speaker 4>the election, and there's other data showing Trump. And instead

0:50:25.960 --> 0:50:28.799
<v Speaker 4>of us talking about the tension in data, we've defaulted

0:50:28.800 --> 0:50:31.200
<v Speaker 4>to the Republican narrative again, which is that Trump is

0:50:31.200 --> 0:50:31.920
<v Speaker 4>winning the election.

0:50:32.360 --> 0:50:34.919
<v Speaker 1>Well, I would like to say that I don't think

0:50:34.960 --> 0:50:35.520
<v Speaker 1>I've done that.

0:50:35.719 --> 0:50:36.120
<v Speaker 3>No, you have.

0:50:36.200 --> 0:50:37.400
<v Speaker 4>I'm saying the family.

0:50:37.680 --> 0:50:40.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that the right has really worked the refs.

0:50:40.719 --> 0:50:44.960
<v Speaker 1>I wonder how much when we talk about polls, we

0:50:45.040 --> 0:50:47.759
<v Speaker 1>don't have a lot of great information. I mean, that's

0:50:47.800 --> 0:50:50.000
<v Speaker 1>the other thing is like, so I think a lot

0:50:50.040 --> 0:50:52.319
<v Speaker 1>of these polls are you know, I just said this,

0:50:52.480 --> 0:50:55.600
<v Speaker 1>do you see you know fifty to fifty there. I

0:50:55.600 --> 0:50:58.640
<v Speaker 1>think there's over corrections on some sides. I think there's

0:50:58.680 --> 0:51:01.279
<v Speaker 1>undercryptions on other sides. Here's a question for you and

0:51:01.520 --> 0:51:04.000
<v Speaker 1>what we don't know? Right, Like, there are so many

0:51:04.040 --> 0:51:07.800
<v Speaker 1>of these doctored videos of Biden going out from even

0:51:08.000 --> 0:51:09.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we shouldn't be surprised by this, but the

0:51:10.080 --> 0:51:13.960
<v Speaker 1>RNC is releasing these doctored videos. You know, they're desperately

0:51:14.000 --> 0:51:17.320
<v Speaker 1>trying to paint him as having some kind of problem.

0:51:17.400 --> 0:51:20.440
<v Speaker 1>Even Biden's supporters are anxious, you know, that he has

0:51:20.480 --> 0:51:23.560
<v Speaker 1>something wrong with him. That really pumped this narrative so

0:51:23.640 --> 0:51:26.040
<v Speaker 1>hard that New York Times has run a gazillion pieces

0:51:26.120 --> 0:51:28.600
<v Speaker 1>about how he's old and da da dah, da dah.

0:51:28.840 --> 0:51:32.960
<v Speaker 1>But I'm curious, do you think, I mean, this is

0:51:33.000 --> 0:51:36.279
<v Speaker 1>a enormous country, and you know, we don't really know

0:51:36.280 --> 0:51:37.960
<v Speaker 1>where any of these people get their news.

0:51:38.560 --> 0:51:41.880
<v Speaker 4>Well, I think we do know that a couple of things,

0:51:42.040 --> 0:51:44.200
<v Speaker 4>And what you just said one is they have made

0:51:44.239 --> 0:51:48.440
<v Speaker 4>an enormous investment over many, many years in painting Biden

0:51:48.520 --> 0:51:49.320
<v Speaker 4>as old.

0:51:49.239 --> 0:51:51.359
<v Speaker 1>And infirmed, right, because it's all they have.

0:51:51.719 --> 0:51:54.120
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, this is not a new ploy, This is not

0:51:54.160 --> 0:51:56.160
<v Speaker 4>a new play in the playbook. This is something they've

0:51:56.200 --> 0:51:58.839
<v Speaker 4>been doing to Biden from day one of.

0:51:58.800 --> 0:52:01.000
<v Speaker 1>His presidency Tailory's emails.

0:52:01.080 --> 0:52:02.839
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and it's had an impact. I mean, I don't

0:52:02.880 --> 0:52:05.000
<v Speaker 4>think we can deny that. You know, I have three

0:52:05.040 --> 0:52:08.279
<v Speaker 4>gen z kids, and it's amazing how and talking to them,

0:52:08.560 --> 0:52:10.799
<v Speaker 4>despite having grown up in Washington and been in a

0:52:10.800 --> 0:52:14.480
<v Speaker 4>political family, how much this kind of stuff reaches them.

0:52:14.640 --> 0:52:14.879
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:52:14.920 --> 0:52:18.120
<v Speaker 4>And I do think though that going forward, you said

0:52:18.120 --> 0:52:20.440
<v Speaker 4>something that's really important, right, which is that it's all

0:52:20.480 --> 0:52:23.720
<v Speaker 4>they have. Donald Trump has one play in this election,

0:52:24.000 --> 0:52:27.760
<v Speaker 4>and the play is I'm winning in the polls, I'm strong.

0:52:28.280 --> 0:52:30.960
<v Speaker 4>Joe Biden is losing the polls. He's weak, and then

0:52:31.040 --> 0:52:35.520
<v Speaker 4>they use that weakness to go into this age infirmity thing.

0:52:35.800 --> 0:52:38.640
<v Speaker 4>The way that we have to understand this and in

0:52:38.680 --> 0:52:41.319
<v Speaker 4>the polling and the political business is called strong Leader

0:52:41.360 --> 0:52:45.480
<v Speaker 4>week Leader, Right, that they're living entirely in the strong

0:52:45.560 --> 0:52:49.520
<v Speaker 4>Leader week leader dimension of the brand architecture here of

0:52:49.560 --> 0:52:52.520
<v Speaker 4>the two campaigns, and we need to take that away

0:52:52.520 --> 0:52:52.919
<v Speaker 4>from them.

0:52:53.120 --> 0:52:53.319
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:52:54.080 --> 0:52:57.480
<v Speaker 4>There's an urgency to us understanding that this is how

0:52:57.480 --> 0:53:00.840
<v Speaker 4>they're fighting. It's the only thing they have, right, because

0:53:00.840 --> 0:53:04.319
<v Speaker 4>he's a diminished candidate. He's crazier as agendas far and

0:53:04.360 --> 0:53:07.680
<v Speaker 4>more extreme. He's now a serial criminal. I mean, he's

0:53:07.719 --> 0:53:10.600
<v Speaker 4>a far more damaged piece of goods than he was

0:53:10.640 --> 0:53:13.080
<v Speaker 4>in twenty twenty, far harder to sell to the public.

0:53:13.320 --> 0:53:15.240
<v Speaker 4>And so they're just going to go to this one place,

0:53:15.560 --> 0:53:18.239
<v Speaker 4>and we have to get ahead of that and understand that,

0:53:18.320 --> 0:53:20.440
<v Speaker 4>which is why I spend so much in my time

0:53:20.520 --> 0:53:24.440
<v Speaker 4>communicating about why Joe Biden's been a successful president and

0:53:24.480 --> 0:53:27.239
<v Speaker 4>that he's a good president and that because then if

0:53:27.280 --> 0:53:30.760
<v Speaker 4>he's a successful president, we can say he's successful because

0:53:30.800 --> 0:53:33.200
<v Speaker 4>of his age and his wisdom and experience. Right, we

0:53:33.280 --> 0:53:36.279
<v Speaker 4>can turn the age issue into an asset of not

0:53:36.320 --> 0:53:38.840
<v Speaker 4>a liability. It's a way of getting ahead of their narrative.

0:53:39.160 --> 0:53:40.799
<v Speaker 4>The second thing is one of the reasons I've been

0:53:40.800 --> 0:53:43.200
<v Speaker 4>litigating the all stuff so much is that I don't

0:53:43.200 --> 0:53:45.239
<v Speaker 4>think Trump has actually been ahead in this election for

0:53:45.280 --> 0:53:48.000
<v Speaker 4>a very long time, and that he's been getting away

0:53:48.040 --> 0:53:51.760
<v Speaker 4>with murder. And I think this idea that he's winning

0:53:52.280 --> 0:53:55.800
<v Speaker 4>is allowing him to force donors into giving him money.

0:53:56.040 --> 0:53:58.560
<v Speaker 4>I think this is having a material impact on his

0:53:58.600 --> 0:54:02.760
<v Speaker 4>fundraising and that is affecting the election, and it's not correct.

0:54:03.080 --> 0:54:06.040
<v Speaker 4>And so we need to take away this idea that

0:54:06.160 --> 0:54:08.399
<v Speaker 4>is something other than a close competitive election. I mean,

0:54:08.440 --> 0:54:12.040
<v Speaker 4>we know from twenty twenty two that the return of

0:54:12.080 --> 0:54:15.480
<v Speaker 4>the red wave scared off millions and millions of dollars

0:54:15.520 --> 0:54:17.840
<v Speaker 4>from the d tripleC in the final few weeks, money

0:54:17.840 --> 0:54:19.520
<v Speaker 4>that was supposed to go to them that ended up

0:54:19.560 --> 0:54:22.560
<v Speaker 4>going to governor's races and state legislative races, and that

0:54:22.640 --> 0:54:25.279
<v Speaker 4>we lost the House because of this. They already had

0:54:25.320 --> 0:54:29.359
<v Speaker 4>success in manufacturing this kind of strong man Weekman thing,

0:54:29.480 --> 0:54:32.560
<v Speaker 4>the Red Wave, which was a version of strongman Weekman, right,

0:54:32.760 --> 0:54:35.160
<v Speaker 4>and it worked for them, and they're doing it again

0:54:35.360 --> 0:54:38.120
<v Speaker 4>using different terms, the strategies, the saying, the tactics are

0:54:38.120 --> 0:54:42.040
<v Speaker 4>a little different, and we need to very much understand

0:54:42.120 --> 0:54:45.640
<v Speaker 4>that Trump is literally running as a strong man and

0:54:45.719 --> 0:54:48.720
<v Speaker 4>that he's trying to make it seem that it's inevitable

0:54:48.960 --> 0:54:51.960
<v Speaker 4>that he's in the White House using whatever tactics he's

0:54:52.000 --> 0:54:53.880
<v Speaker 4>going to use to get there, and that it's just

0:54:54.040 --> 0:54:55.960
<v Speaker 4>time for people to line up and get on board.

0:54:56.200 --> 0:54:58.600
<v Speaker 4>And what you're doing, Molly, and what I'm doing and

0:54:58.600 --> 0:55:01.560
<v Speaker 4>what our family is doing, were saying no f and

0:55:01.640 --> 0:55:04.400
<v Speaker 4>way to that right, like, we are not obeying in advance,

0:55:04.440 --> 0:55:07.120
<v Speaker 4>we're not getting in line, We're fighting with everything we

0:55:07.200 --> 0:55:09.400
<v Speaker 4>have and that we have to understand that this is

0:55:09.640 --> 0:55:12.040
<v Speaker 4>like a sciops going on with them, and to be

0:55:12.080 --> 0:55:14.759
<v Speaker 4>smart about this. I do think they're not running a

0:55:14.840 --> 0:55:18.920
<v Speaker 4>traditional campaign to your point. Their agenda's wildly unpopular. Their

0:55:19.080 --> 0:55:22.279
<v Speaker 4>candidate is the ugliest political thing we've ever seen. Right,

0:55:22.719 --> 0:55:25.680
<v Speaker 4>They're going after Biden everything they're going to do now.

0:55:25.760 --> 0:55:28.439
<v Speaker 4>The reason they're faking these videos is that you only

0:55:28.520 --> 0:55:32.080
<v Speaker 4>cheat if you're losing, right, And the intensity in which

0:55:32.440 --> 0:55:37.040
<v Speaker 4>these media organizations are debasing themselves shows how much pressure

0:55:37.120 --> 0:55:41.080
<v Speaker 4>they're under from the Trump campaign to help them. And

0:55:40.960 --> 0:55:44.719
<v Speaker 4>it's a sign I think to me reading backwards, is

0:55:44.760 --> 0:55:47.680
<v Speaker 4>that I think the Trump campaign was deeply aware that

0:55:47.719 --> 0:55:49.759
<v Speaker 4>if a guilty verdict came, it was going to be

0:55:49.840 --> 0:55:52.719
<v Speaker 4>very damaging to him. And they are acting like a

0:55:52.760 --> 0:55:57.000
<v Speaker 4>campaign that is worried and concerned and like throwing a

0:55:57.000 --> 0:55:59.520
<v Speaker 4>lot of shit against the wall because they know that

0:55:59.680 --> 0:56:03.040
<v Speaker 4>his brand, the core Trump brand, has been eroded and

0:56:03.120 --> 0:56:06.279
<v Speaker 4>damaged by what's happened over the last few weeks. Otherwise,

0:56:06.480 --> 0:56:08.919
<v Speaker 4>you know, the Murdoch Empire wouldn't be going into such

0:56:08.960 --> 0:56:12.440
<v Speaker 4>hyperdrives right now in defending him. You know, from everything

0:56:12.440 --> 0:56:16.640
<v Speaker 4>from those fake videos to the ridiculous polling that Fox

0:56:16.719 --> 0:56:20.760
<v Speaker 4>released ten days ago, which was absurd. They are rallying

0:56:20.840 --> 0:56:23.000
<v Speaker 4>for their guy, but they rally for their guy because

0:56:23.000 --> 0:56:24.320
<v Speaker 4>he's weak, not because he's strong.

0:56:24.520 --> 0:56:26.000
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Simon.

0:56:25.880 --> 0:56:27.160
<v Speaker 4>Molly, It's always a pleasure.

0:56:29.320 --> 0:56:31.080
<v Speaker 2>They're no moment o.

0:56:33.080 --> 0:56:35.239
<v Speaker 1>Jesse Canon Mai Junk Fast.

0:56:35.239 --> 0:56:37.799
<v Speaker 2>Do you smell something rotten? Because I do. And it's

0:56:37.840 --> 0:56:38.800
<v Speaker 2>the Supreme Court.

0:56:39.239 --> 0:56:42.879
<v Speaker 1>So they have still like seven thousand opinions to go.

0:56:43.280 --> 0:56:44.879
<v Speaker 2>They had to schedule another day.

0:56:45.239 --> 0:56:49.719
<v Speaker 1>It's the twentieth of June. They're supposed to release the

0:56:49.800 --> 0:56:53.120
<v Speaker 1>opinions thround June. But what they're doing here in this

0:56:53.680 --> 0:57:00.560
<v Speaker 1>six three super majority, very right wing craziness, is they

0:57:00.719 --> 0:57:03.479
<v Speaker 1>are trying to run out the clock so they can

0:57:03.640 --> 0:57:10.480
<v Speaker 1>release as many of these very explosive country shaping opinions

0:57:10.840 --> 0:57:13.719
<v Speaker 1>as close to vacation as possible and then go on

0:57:13.800 --> 0:57:16.800
<v Speaker 1>vacation and not have to deal with people freaking out

0:57:17.040 --> 0:57:20.160
<v Speaker 1>or protesting. This is not what a Supreme Court is

0:57:20.160 --> 0:57:23.840
<v Speaker 1>supposed to do. Again, like I've said this before and

0:57:23.880 --> 0:57:26.600
<v Speaker 1>I unfortunately I think I will say it again. None

0:57:26.680 --> 0:57:30.640
<v Speaker 1>of this is normal. That's it for this episode of

0:57:30.640 --> 0:57:34.440
<v Speaker 1>Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to

0:57:34.480 --> 0:57:37.360
<v Speaker 1>hear the best minds in politics makes sense of all

0:57:37.480 --> 0:57:40.959
<v Speaker 1>this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send

0:57:41.000 --> 0:57:43.720
<v Speaker 1>it to a friend and keep the conversation going, and

0:57:43.760 --> 0:57:45.280
<v Speaker 1>again thanks for listening.