1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hartunger. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: and time for fun. From figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: This is Laura. I'm going to be interviewing Jessica Leahy, 11 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: who is the author of several books. She was a 12 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: first known for the book The Gift of Failure, but 13 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: we're mostly talking in this interview about her next book, 14 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:50,959 Speaker 1: which is called The Addiction Inoculation, which is how parents 15 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: can help inoculate their kids, as it were, against addiction 16 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: to drugs and alcohol in a culture that often does 17 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: not make that particularly easy to do, and you know, 18 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: particularly looking at it through the lens of people who 19 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: might have a family history of substance abuse. As we 20 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: learn more about how genetics plays a role in these things, 21 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: leaving some people far more vulnerable to being, you know, 22 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 1: falling prey to abuse of substances in the course of 23 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,559 Speaker 1: their lives. If your kids are dealing with that genetic inheritance, 24 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: how you can particularly take actions to make the odds 25 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: better for them that they will come through the adolescent 26 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: transition in a healthy manner. So a lot to think 27 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: about with This is a really great interview. I hope 28 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: people will really enjoy listening to it. Sarah, you were 29 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: saying you feel like you already know Jess from the 30 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: internet world. I was just commenting on like the parasocial 31 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: relationships of podcasting, I think, especially where I'm like, oh, yeah, 32 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: just lay like my friend. And then I was thinking 33 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: about this and I'm like, she doesn't know me, Like 34 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: I've never spoken to her. She may or may not 35 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: know who I am. Maybe she does if she's listened 36 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: to Best of Both Worlds ever, But yeah, isn't that weird? 37 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: It's kind of weird. It is. It is funny, I mean, 38 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: because when you listen to someone every week or even 39 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 1: more frequently, sometimes you do feel like you know their 40 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: life and you know their story and you know how 41 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: they're going to answer things. You're like, oh yeah, and 42 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: you forget that it's not a two way street, Like 43 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: you're listening to these people and they aren't listening to you. 44 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I definitely have that feeling about various podcasts 45 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: that I've listened to over the years, and it's like, yeah, 46 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: the person you know doesn't know me from Adam. And 47 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: then sometimes the world's collide and you have to just 48 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: deal with that. Like I had a parent that's going 49 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: to hi, if you're listening to this, I'm not going 50 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: to say your name, but like they saw me on 51 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: the email of like the camp and then she emailed 52 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: me and she's like, oh my god, I listened to 53 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: your podcast and then we had a plateate and it 54 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: was lovely and like now I know her like a 55 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: normal human. But that very beginning moment, you're like, oh, 56 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: like this is just so weird. They know things about me, 57 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: but like is it the real you? And you live 58 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: up to that and I don't know, it's all very confusing. Well, 59 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: I just think it's kind of fun if I meet 60 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 1: people who've been listening to the podcast or reading the blog, 61 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: and then I don't have to like sit there and 62 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: like say who I am? Or like to describe my 63 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: history to bring them up to date, so then they 64 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: can just talk and it's far more interesting because then 65 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: I can just like get to know them and they 66 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: don't have to like fill in the details of me, 67 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: because I've been that is true, doing that for years, 68 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: but no, I've really had to. Actually, it's been a 69 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: lot of fun. I've met a fair number of people 70 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: in person who have read my blog or have listened 71 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: to this podcast over the years, and it's it's always great. 72 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: I love actually when I it can be a two 73 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: way street. One of the things we've particularly like with 74 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: with our Patreon community is we're getting to chat with 75 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: people once a month and start putting like names to 76 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: faces of people that we've seen comment on blogs over 77 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: the years and things like that. So that's definitely been 78 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: really really cool, because yeah, I mean, if people are 79 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: commenting for going we know you, we definitely get to 80 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: know you too through that and hopefully want to do 81 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: that with more people too. So always trying to figure 82 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: out how to make blogging and podcasting as much of 83 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: a two way street as possible. Yes, and eventually sometimes 84 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: you make friends and you forget that's how you met them. 85 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: In the first place, which is kind of funny. It's true. 86 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: It's true. Well, speaking of which I have met just 87 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: a few times in person though, so this is a 88 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: it's funny because yes, I feel like I've probably only 89 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: seen her like four times in person or something over 90 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 1: the years, and yet I'm like, oh, yes, Jess from 91 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: way back, but we've chatted a few times. This was 92 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: a really fun interview. So anyway, I hope you guys 93 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: enjoy it. We'll be here with Jesslyhy Well. Sarah and 94 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: I are delighted to welcome Jessica Lahey to the program. 95 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: She is the author of The Addiction Inoculation and The 96 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: Gift of Failure. So, Jess, can you introduce yourself to 97 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: our listeners? Sure thing. So, my name is jess Lahy, 98 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: and I live in outside of Burlington, Vermont. Was a 99 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: teacher for about twenty years and now basically get to 100 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: have the coolest job in the whole world, which is 101 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: to get curious about things, research them, and write books 102 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: about them, and then and travel around the country and 103 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: speak about them. And you know, the addiction moculation comes 104 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: out of the fact that I'm in recovery myself. I 105 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: have eight and a half years of recovery. I'm an 106 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: alcoholic and have two kids, and I just sort of 107 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: wanted to figure out, you know, what their risk look 108 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: like and what I what's in my control and what's 109 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: not in my control in order to you know, keep 110 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: them as safe as humanly possible with of course, assuming 111 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: they are no guarantees in the universe, so no guarantee 112 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: is on anything. Certainly, this is an issue a lot 113 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: of people are thinking about. I mean, are there particular 114 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: issues for you know, people who do have a family 115 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: history then I mean, is it a different sort of 116 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: thing or is it just something all of us need 117 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: to think about in general. Yeah, So it turns out 118 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: that genetics and unfortun for us, the genetics around substance 119 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: use disorder, which is, by the way, what we're supposed 120 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: to be calling it instead of addiction substance use disorder, 121 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: genetics are really complicated. They're linked in with personality and 122 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: brain chemistry and all kinds of things. It's not like 123 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: something that we're going to be able to identify one 124 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: gene and then flick it out using like crisper technology. 125 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: So kids who are born to people who have let's 126 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 1: say a first or second degree relative with alcohol use 127 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: disorder or substance use disorder of any kind. It looks 128 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: like about fifty to sixty percent of the risk is 129 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: the genetics. And then there's this stuff called epigenetics, which 130 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: is kind of environment and kind of genetics. It's sort 131 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: of how stresses that we are exposed to in our lives. 132 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: What happens around us impacts how our genes express themselves. So, yeah, 133 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I have kids who came into this world 134 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: at a higher risk for substance use disorder, and so 135 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: given that, how does that factor into the decisions I'm 136 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: in around you know, what they're exposed to, and the 137 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 1: choices I make around you know, how I parents. That 138 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: was sort of interesting to me. But on the other hand, 139 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:09,679 Speaker 1: you also have to remember that, you know, any kid 140 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: can end up relying on substances instead of you know, 141 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: it's not just about genetics, and it's not like also, 142 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: it's not like if you have the genetics for substance 143 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: use disorder that you're doomed. My sister, you know, came 144 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: from the same parents I did, and she has just 145 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: a regular ole I hate to use the word normal, 146 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: but does not have an issue with substance use disorder. 147 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: My husband was born into a family with substance use disorder, 148 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: and he has no issues with substance use disorder. So yeah, 149 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: it is part of the picture, but it's not the 150 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: whole picture. Well, I wonder if you could distinguish a 151 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: little bit then, because you said a normal drinking and 152 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: we're using the quotes there right. Nobody can see us 153 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: doing that. We're not recording the video, but we're both 154 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: using our quote marks around the normal drinking versus I mean, 155 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: if you characterized hery, what what led you to think 156 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: that you were dealing with more of an issue than say, 157 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: your husband having the same glass of wine. So I 158 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: didn't have just one glass of wine hardly ever. So 159 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: you know, I think we're in a really cool place 160 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: in this culture right now, where given various books that 161 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: have come out on sort of the sober curious, like 162 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: looking at your own individual relationship with alcohol or substances 163 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: and saying, okay, well, I don't have to take a 164 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: quiz in a magazine about am I an alcoholic and 165 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: score a ten to decide because this label applies to me, 166 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: I now have to do something about it. I think 167 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: We're in this really cool place in our culture where 168 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: these books and the culture itself is starting to say, look, 169 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: if you don't like the influence that alcohol or a 170 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: substance is having on your life, and you think it's 171 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: problematic for you, then go ahead and you know, try 172 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: sober January or you know, there's all kinds of these 173 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: sort of sober curious months now that you can sort 174 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: of check out what it's like to not drink. And 175 00:08:58,600 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who are saying, Okay, 176 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: well I'm going to give it a shot for a 177 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: month or a year and see what it's like. So 178 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: for me, I definitely scored high on the quizzes. I 179 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: knew I was an alcoholic for a while before really 180 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: my life started to come apart at the seams, But 181 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: it wasn't until my dad sort of came to me 182 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: and said, you know, I know what an alcoholic looks like, 183 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: and you're an alcoholic and you need help. And at 184 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 1: that point I knew he was right. So I think 185 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: it's a really individual decision, and I think we get 186 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: into a lot of trouble when we start comparing war 187 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: stories or like, am I as much of an alcoholic 188 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: as you are, and I work at a rehab and 189 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 1: that's one of the first traps that a lot of 190 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: people tend to fall into when they get talking to 191 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: other people in recovery, and there's these horrible sentiments like, 192 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: you know, I've spilled more than you ever drank. You know, 193 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: that kind of horrible comparison really gets in the way 194 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 1: of people deciding what's right for them and whether or 195 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: not their individual relationship with alcohol needs to be reevaluated. 196 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 1: So for me, it was pretty clear. For some people 197 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: it's just you know, man, I really don't like the 198 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 1: way I feel when I drink, and it's really messing 199 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: with my parenting or my job or whatever. Well, I 200 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: think it was one of the most interesting parts of 201 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: the Addiction and Oculation when we were talking about this 202 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: is of course, you were a very high functioning yes 203 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 1: person in terms of dealing with alcoholism. But many of 204 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: the people who sort of knew you and in fact 205 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: knew you pretty well, would not have pegged that at 206 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: all because you weren't doing any of those things that 207 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: you read about in the addiction memoirs. I mean, you 208 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: were getting your kids to school and getting yourself to 209 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: work and getting a family functioning, and so it can 210 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: look like different things. Yeah, I was a full time 211 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: middle school teacher, teaching a very full schedule. I was 212 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: teaching almost every period of the day. And at that 213 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: point I had started writing for The Atlantic, and I 214 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: was publishing an article every at least two weeks. So 215 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: that's a whole other full time thing going on there. 216 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: And then, frankly, the drinking was a full time job too, 217 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: So you know, really I had three full time jobs. 218 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: And I was a parent, and you know, I was 219 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: trying to maintain my marriage to a person who knew 220 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: what our family risks looked like and had made it 221 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 1: really clear that he did not want to raise his 222 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: children in that context. And so I knew if I 223 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: was found out, I risked being fired, I risked divorce, 224 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: I risked all kinds of things. And I hit it. 225 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: I was so good at hiding it, and I was 226 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 1: so careful that you know, very close friends of mine, 227 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: as you said, I had to convince them that I, 228 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: you know, had a problem. I had one friend really 229 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: disagree with me, and I don't know if that was 230 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: because she was I mean, I know it's because she 231 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: loves me, but I think a lot of people get 232 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: worried that I'm judging them when I talk about my 233 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,679 Speaker 1: own drinking, or if I turned down a drink that 234 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: that's you know a lot of people at the common 235 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: response I'll get sometimes if I explained that I don't drink, 236 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: someone will say, oh, yeah, I should. I should really 237 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: cut back to So, you know, there's all sorts of 238 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 1: reasons that people, you know, want to put. It's easier 239 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 1: if you can categorize. It's easier if there's like a 240 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: quiz you can take and get a certain score and 241 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: then you know, you know for sure that you're an alcoholic. 242 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: But it took me a long time to get there. Yeah. Now, 243 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: obviously teens are very curious about substances in general. Yep, 244 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: and probably a lot of young people are going to 245 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: try things. But what is it about the teen brain 246 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: that is particularly problematic for them starting any sort of 247 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: alcohol or substance abuse. Well, for context, you know, there's 248 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,319 Speaker 1: all these camps addiction and you know, substance use and 249 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: all this stuff. There are these camps, you know, like 250 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: alcohol use disorder is a brain disease. Alcohol use disorder 251 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: is a reaction to trauma. But there's a whole entire 252 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: camp that believes that alcohol use to well substance use 253 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: disorder is a developmental disorder. It's a developmental issue because 254 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: the adolescent brain, you know, is going through the second 255 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: most just monumental overhaul of you know, the connections and 256 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: the brain, and you know, all this growth is happening. 257 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: But the other thing you have to realize is that 258 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: the very purpose of adolescence is to push kids out 259 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: of their family and get them to try new things 260 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: and become their own person. And so a lot of 261 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: people like to say that adolescents have a real that 262 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: they're wired for risk, and that's not true. Adolescents are 263 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: wired for novelty. And there's a very good reason for that. 264 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons is that dopamine, which is 265 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: the neurotransmitter in our brain that sort of makes us 266 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: it's not just about joy, it's not just about happiness 267 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: or about pleasure. It's about drive. It's the very thing 268 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: that makes us get out of the bed in the 269 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: morning and go out into the world and do stuff. 270 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 1: And adolescents have lower baseline dopamine levels than little kids 271 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: or adults, So you know, your adolescent is sort of 272 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: perpetually slightly bored because their dopamine levels are lower. Their 273 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: brains are wired to seek out novelty because the purpose 274 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 1: of adolescence is to try new things and get competent 275 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: at them so they can go out in the world. 276 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: And you know, drugs and alcohol offer a novel way 277 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: to experience the world. And on top of that, drugs 278 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 1: and alcohol offer a way to cope with emotional pain, 279 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: trauma unresolved, you know, whether that's social ostracism or academic failure, 280 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: or you know, they've just never been offered any other 281 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: way to deal with some sort of pain that they've 282 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: experienced during their lives. So there's a lot of different 283 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: reasons that adolescents are really Oh and then of course 284 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: there's you know, peer pressure and the fact that it's available. 285 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: There are lots of factors. But yeah, there's no other 286 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: time in life where they're more likely to pick up 287 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: addictive substances. In fact, as soon as they get to 288 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: be out of this period of cognitive development that ends 289 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: in the early to mid twenties, the chances that they're 290 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: going to initiate drug or alcohol use actually go way 291 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: down or develop substance use disorder. Tend to go down, 292 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: So it's a prime time for this sort of picking 293 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: up a new substance and finding that it solves some 294 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: problems for them, at least in the short term, though 295 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: often creating others. So exactly, we'll take a quick break 296 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: and we will be right back talking with Jess Lahy. Well, 297 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: I am back with Jess Lahy talking about the addiction, 298 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: inoculation and other such related topics. And I think you've 299 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: you know, wrote as well about one of the issues 300 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: for children who are growing up with a family history 301 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: of substance abuse is that the earlier they do try 302 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: these substances, the more at risk they are for you know, 303 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: bringing about the full scale addiction. What's going on there. Well, 304 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: so it turns out that when you talk to people 305 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: who have substance use disorders as adults, ninety percent of 306 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: them report that they started with drugs i'll call before 307 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: age eighteen. But when you break it down into okay, 308 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: so what is the risk at various ages we have 309 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: some really great data on, especially for like breaking it 310 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: down to like eighth grade, tenth grade, and twelfth grade. 311 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: Those are sort of the groups that we have great 312 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: data on. And for example, if a kid starts has 313 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: their first drink in eighth grade, which you know, for 314 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: a lot of kids, that's about when they might start. 315 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: Like thirteen point five is the average age of initiation 316 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: for kids. So if we're waiting, by the way, ps, 317 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: if we're waiting to do substance use disorder prevention until 318 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: like that age, then we're behind the eight ball. So anyway, 319 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: so if a kid starts in eighth grade, there are 320 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: chances of having substance use disorder during their lifetime is 321 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: somewhere around fifty percent. But the older they get, the 322 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: lower that number gets, the lower that percentage gets. So 323 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: if we can get them to eighteen or to twenty one, 324 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: then we're really getting back down really close to that 325 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: ten percent, which is what it is in the general population, 326 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: around where it is in the general popular So yeah, 327 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: the older kid is the lower there's statistically the lower 328 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 1: their chances are, and partially that has to do with 329 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: the fact that their brain gets to finish developing unimpeded. 330 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: There's also some statistical issues there. I happen to be 331 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 1: married to a statistician, so he's constantly coming back at 332 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: me with, oh, but there are these confounders and those confounders, 333 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: and I talk about those in the book, but on 334 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,959 Speaker 1: a basic level, that's what the statistics look like. So 335 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: that the key here is just delay, delay delay. The 336 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: older the age of initiation is, the lower the chances 337 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: are that your kid will end up experiencing substance use disorder. 338 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 1: So when would you recommend starting to talk to kids 339 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,719 Speaker 1: about you know, alcohol and about yeah, and says in general, 340 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: the earlier the better. The book starts with scripts for 341 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: kids as young as preschool, in kindergarten, and no, we're 342 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: not talking about you know, Heroin with little little kids. 343 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: We're talking about things like why we don't swallow the 344 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: toothpaste when we brush our teeth, why we don't take 345 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: medications that don't have our name on the label if 346 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,479 Speaker 1: it's a prescription medication. Those kind of conversations, and they 347 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: can be fun, like if your kid is learning the 348 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: letters of the alphabet and you could say, you know 349 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: the letters of mommy's name are, and you give them 350 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: the letters, can you look for those letters? And that 351 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 1: can lead to a conversation about, well, why do you 352 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: think mommy's name is even on that bottle? Like why 353 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: put someone's name on a bottle of medicine. What would 354 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: happen if, like you had the same sickness that mommy has, 355 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: could you just take my medicine? Well, of course not. 356 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 1: We're different people, different body chemistry, different sizes, that kind 357 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: of stuff. And then as kids get older in the book, 358 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 1: I lay out scripts for you know, as kids develop cognitively, emotionally, 359 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: you know, in terms of what they're seeing in the media, 360 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: all of that kind of stuff, all the way up 361 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: through college, ways to talk to your kids. So the 362 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: earlier the better. You know, while you're talking to kids 363 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: about not eating those tide pods, you can also be 364 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: talking to them about why there are certain things we 365 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: put in our body and why there are certain things 366 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: we don't put in our body. Yeah. And in terms 367 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: of again, children who maybe have a history of family 368 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 1: family history of substance abuse, are there particular scripts you 369 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: would recommend for them, because again, the more they can delay, 370 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: like a drink for them at age seventeen is different 371 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: than a drink for maybe another child at age seventeen. 372 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: And so what are some scripts maybe you can counsel 373 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: those young people to use. Yeah, So I for me, 374 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 1: once I got hold of my own drinking. I realized 375 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: that what was going to have to be a part 376 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 1: of the conversation with them, given that they were at 377 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: higher risk, has to do with sort of, okay, well 378 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: if you do try drugs and alcohol, and what does 379 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: it look like feel like when use turns to maybe 380 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: something bigger, and you know, and also understanding that there 381 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: are different kinds, and you know, to reassure parents, lots 382 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: and lots of kids are going to try drugs and 383 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: alcohol and they are the vast majority are going to 384 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: be fine. But having that conversation about my own story 385 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: and how it start, it was so slow. It was 386 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 1: hard for me even now to pinpoint when exactly it 387 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: turned from just you know, social use to abuse, but 388 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: talking to them about that, talking to them about the 389 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: fact that they're at elevated risk, talking to them about 390 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: what it feels like when you're just really starting to 391 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: I hate using this phrase. Some people you self medicate, 392 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: or you know, when you're avoiding emotion or when you're 393 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: avoiding the problems in your lives and using substances to 394 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: sort of quote unquote self medicate. Those are really important 395 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: conversations to have, not just for someone with an elevated risk. 396 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: But for my kids in particular, we have a lot 397 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: of conversations about the fact that they are at elevated risk. 398 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: That there's so many people in our family both sides 399 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: who have really spent a lot of have wasted a 400 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: lot of time in their lives not being present for 401 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: their lives and what that has looked like for them, 402 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: and they've had some object lessons in that they've seen 403 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: it for themselves, So talking about that has been super important. 404 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: So really being honest about what happened to your relatives 405 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: about you know, yeah, absolutely, I think part of that 406 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: comes out of the fact that I have a particular 407 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: hatred of gaslighting kids euphemisms. You know, I was never 408 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: allowed to talk about, you know, my parents' use. We 409 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: were never allowed to identify what Susan Schiever refers to 410 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: as the elephant in the room. You know, there's a 411 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,199 Speaker 1: big things stomping on our family and wrecking things, and 412 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 1: we weren't allowed to point at it and say, hey, 413 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 1: look that's an elephant. We were told no, no no, no, 414 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: that's not an elephant, that's something else, or even worse, 415 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: there's nothing there to see. So for me, my trust 416 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: in kids' ability to handle it, and my intense hatred 417 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: for gaslighting kids sort of has led us to a 418 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: place where we talk about it all the time. It's 419 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: a part of our reality, and if they're going to 420 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: stay healthy, it's a part of their reality as well. Yeah, 421 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: so you mentioned that, I mean, the teen brain is 422 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: wired for novelty. What are some ways that we can 423 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 1: help them seek out novelty that is not going to 424 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: result in an elevated risk of substance abuse. Well, first off, 425 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 1: keeping in mind that you know, one of the ways 426 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: that we can really protect kids is by doing early 427 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: intervention for some of the things that are the biggest 428 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 1: risk for substance use disorder, Like you know, obviously aces 429 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,719 Speaker 1: adverse childhood experiences. If your kid has experienced you know, 430 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: abuse and neglect, If your kid has been through a divorce. 431 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: Divorce and separation is actually an adverse childhood experiences according 432 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: to the Centers for Disease Control. If your kid has 433 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: experienced social ostracism, if your kid has experienced academic failure, 434 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: if your kid is aggressive towards other children, if your 435 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: kid has a learning difference, those are all reasons to say, Okay, well, 436 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 1: let's address this nice and earthly so that we can 437 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: sort of stay on top of it, because all of 438 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: those things do increase a kid's risk for substance use disorder. 439 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: But I think the best way to talk about this 440 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,439 Speaker 1: sort of wired for novelty stuff is I was talking 441 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: to doctor Dan siegeln author and scientist I so I 442 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: love so much, and I was interviewing him for the book, 443 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: and I was talking to him about how worried I 444 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: was by the fact that we moved my kid between 445 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: middle school and high school, which is one of the 446 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: riskiest times in terms of initiating substance use. I took 447 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: him away from his friends, I took him away from 448 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: the parents of those friends that I trusted with my child, 449 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: and I was freaked out. So I told doctor Dan 450 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: Siegel that, and he said to me, Okay, well, you 451 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: could think about it that way, or you could turn 452 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: it on its head and you could turn it into 453 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: a strategy for prevention, because what is a move other 454 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: than an incredible opportunity for novelty. You can help push 455 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: your kid toward positive opportunities for novelty, like learning to 456 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: drive in a new place, meeting new people, exploring new places. 457 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: These are all opportunities to boost my kid's dopamine with 458 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: novelty that are not harmful for him. So if you're 459 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: not moving something like getting your kid to try out 460 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: for a play if that's not normally something they would do, 461 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: or encouraging your kid to try something that's a little 462 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 1: bit scarier outside their comfort zone. All of these things, 463 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: that act of gaining mastery over something, that act of 464 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: overcoming a fear, that all leads to something called self efficacy, 465 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 1: which is one of the most preventative things we can 466 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: give our kids. It's self efficacy, feelings of agency, feelings 467 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: of competency. These are all incredibly important. And the competency thing, 468 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: if you want to know more about that, go read 469 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 1: Gift of Failure, my first book. But all of that 470 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: sort of whenever a kid is like, yeah, I'm proud 471 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: of myself I did that, that is a massive boost 472 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 1: of dopamine. So if they can get it there rather 473 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,239 Speaker 1: than from you know, some drug or alcohol, then then 474 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:05,120 Speaker 1: yay us. Yay them exactly. And if a child tells you, 475 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: a young person tells you that they have tried you know, yeah, drugs, 476 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: alcohol and all that. I mean, I guess it's a 477 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: great thing that they feel confident telling you. I mean, 478 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: that's certainly a good thing that you're in that position 479 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: to be a relationship. But how would you recommend reacting 480 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: to that. Yeah, so, first and foremost, do not This 481 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: is not like a oh my kid is ruined or 482 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: oh all my work is down the drain. Now that's 483 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: sort of that sort of thinking is akin to that 484 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: whole like, oh, Okay, you had sex for the first time, 485 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: so now you're like dirty in some way. That's a 486 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 1: horrible way to sort of approach these things. Realize that 487 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: this is an experience you had, and here are some 488 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: of the possible negative consequences. Oh, and do not take 489 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: those negative consequences away. If a kid got in trouble, 490 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,959 Speaker 1: if a kid got arrested, if a kid you know, 491 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: got detained, all of these things are sort of important 492 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: for them to go through. So if you're constantly rescuing 493 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 1: those kids from those consequences, not getting the feedback they need, 494 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: but being forgiving, explaining that this does not change the 495 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: way you feel about them, that this hasn't like ruined anything. 496 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: This is a learning experience, and what is going to 497 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: be so important is that they learn from this and 498 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 1: then give them some information about as you know, I 499 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: go into a lot of detail in the Addiction and 500 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: Oculation about what drugs and alcohol do to the adolescent brain. 501 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: Drugs and alcohol are a lot more dangerous in the 502 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: adolescent brain than they are in an adult brain. This 503 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: is not adult drug and alcohol use we're talking about. 504 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: We're talking about a very plastic brain that is really 505 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: susceptible to environmental interference, you know, by chemicals or experiences 506 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: or whatever. And understanding that is going to be really 507 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: key to helping them see you know, what they need 508 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: to do in order to sort of keep their brain 509 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: intact and continue to grow and continue to learn. But 510 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 1: that forgiveness and that whole like, that's okay, this is 511 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: an experience and we all make mistakes and we all 512 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: learn from experiences. So what are we going to take 513 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: forward from this? And for probably many of our listeners 514 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: who do drink some probably not a lot, But what 515 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: should you do in terms of your own like, you know, 516 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: having wine with dinner while the kids are around, or 517 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: like what is good for modeling if you are in 518 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,959 Speaker 1: a family where that maybe isn't an issue, what's an 519 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: appropriate way to model responsible alcohol use? So in our family, 520 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: I don't drink, but my husband does. And so my husband, 521 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: we don't keep open alcohol in the house just because 522 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: he's being considerate to me so that I don't have 523 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: to think about it. So we have, you know, a 524 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: moderate drinker in the house, and we have a non 525 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: drinker in the house. And so one of the things, 526 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: even with Tim's moderate use, one of the things we 527 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 1: have to think about all the time is, you know, 528 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: what are we saying about what are we showing them 529 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: about why we drink. So, for example, if you're coming 530 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,199 Speaker 1: home and sort of talking about the fact that you 531 00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: sort of need a drink in order to deal with 532 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: whatever's on on that day, or you're going to a 533 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 1: stressful family event and you're really hoping there's going to 534 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: be boozed there, you know they're about to be one 535 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: there because this is like how I'm going to you know, 536 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: be able to get through this day. That language around 537 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: why you drink is the stuff that they're going to 538 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: hear or see. And so I am never going to 539 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: say unless someone you know clearly has a substance use 540 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: disorder and they're modeling really unhealthy behaviors for their kids, 541 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: I'm never going to say you can't drink in front 542 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: of your kids. I am going to think ask you 543 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: to think really carefully about what messaging you're sending around 544 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: why you are drinking. And that conversation is so much 545 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: fun to extend out. You know, I'm a total dork here. 546 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: I just revealed that through this so much fun thing. 547 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: It's really fun to go and talk about like what 548 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: the media does in terms of its messaging. And you know, 549 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: why do you think that you you know, it's so 550 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: important to have beer at a Super Bowl party? What 551 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: is it about alcohol? And you know the NFL and 552 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: the partnership they have with a lot of their advertise 553 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: that makes it so ubiquitous for there to be beer 554 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: at a super Bowl party. So all of that stuff. 555 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: And by the way, adolescents hate being manipulated. So a 556 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: fun conversation to have is about what do you think 557 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: they're really selling in this ad? Are they selling beer? 558 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: Are they selling the You know, if you drink this beer, 559 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: you will have lots of friends, and you will be 560 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,239 Speaker 1: very pretty or attractive, and you will go to all 561 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: these parties and you will be able to run faster 562 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, highlighting how the media works to manipulate 563 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: our opinions about ourselves. Is another fun way to go 564 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: with that conversation. Yes, teams definitely want to know that 565 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: they are one up on that. Yeah, it's actually really 566 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: in those conversations about advertising in general are so much fun. 567 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: We have them actually all the time, Like what is 568 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: this ad really selling? It's really been It's an interesting conversation. Yeah, 569 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: And if you can make the narrative that they are 570 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: sticking it to the alcohol companies by not not following 571 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: their reason or I suppose the tobacco companies too, right 572 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: by Yeah, it's actually when you look at like when 573 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: you look at the sports that have the highest rates 574 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: of substance use for the players, you also find that, 575 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: for example, football is one of them. They're sort of 576 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: the top four high contact sports. Football, rugby, ice hockey, 577 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: and wrestling are the top four. But when you look 578 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: at the amount of marketing that is done if you 579 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: watch like a soccer match or you watch a football match, 580 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: it's no accident that where those logos are in terms 581 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: of where the camera is going to be most often 582 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: and how much money is involved. And I talk about 583 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: this in the Addiction and Oculation. When you talk to 584 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: kids about the fact that you know, those companies know 585 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: that if they hook you in as a loyal customer 586 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: at a young young age, that is millions and millions 587 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: of dollars that they are sort of investing at an 588 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: early age in order to get you hooked on their product, 589 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: just in terms of brand loyalty. So yeah, that's the 590 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: thing I love so much about teenagers is that they're 591 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: so they so hate being manipulated. So it's so cool 592 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: to talk to them about the ways that other people 593 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: do try to manipulate them and help them understand it. Yeah, 594 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: and hopefully make make good choices as a result. Well, 595 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: just we always end with a love of the week. 596 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: I can go first if you want to take a 597 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: minute to think about what yours? This is just something 598 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: that cool is happening doing, reading, seeing, enjoying. I am actually, 599 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: I actually, I am so excited to hear what yours is? 600 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: I am so excited. I love this part of the show. Well, 601 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: might may not be that interesting to say, I am 602 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: rereading The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, which is 603 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: you know, I read it probably twenty five plus years 604 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: ago for the first time, and in fact, it came 605 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,719 Speaker 1: out in like nineteen ninety Yeah, which is always funny 606 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,719 Speaker 1: to read a sort of self help and time management 607 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: book that came out so long ago, because you know, 608 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: people always wasted time but mark different things so exactly 609 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: but worth Fax machines or something. I don't know what 610 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: we were wasting time with, but yes, So I've been 611 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: enjoying rereading that and seeing where Stephen Covey is going 612 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: with it. So how about you. So I just came 613 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: off of a week of just total bliss and happiness. 614 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: I'm finally back out on the road for speaking. As 615 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of speakers have had to do 616 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: all virtual stuff and that's just not as much fun. 617 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: And so I got to take my eighteen year old 618 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: on the road with me. And the reason I took 619 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: him is that I was going to I was in Colorado, 620 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: and at the end of the week in Colorado, one 621 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: of his favorite musicians, Porter Robinson, was going to be 622 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: performing at Red Rocks and so and I've never been 623 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: to Red Rocks. I am, I'm fifty one. I'm dating 624 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: myself here, but you know the U two live at 625 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: Red Rocks under a blood red sky was like, I mean, 626 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: going to Red Rocks was like a bucket list thing 627 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 1: for me. So we got tickets and we went to 628 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: see Porter Robinson and a bunch of other acts at 629 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: Red Rocks this past weekend. And I'm running out of time, 630 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: time to spend to go on a week long road 631 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: trip with my eighteen year old and for us, you know, 632 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: sitting side by side in a car, that's when we 633 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: have our best conversations. And I had to make my 634 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: way across the state of Colorado for three separate events 635 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: and then drive back at the end. So it was 636 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: a lot of car time. It was good audiobook time, 637 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: and it was good just bonding time with my kid. 638 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,239 Speaker 1: I'm so happy to have those opportunities. It's it was 639 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: invaluable to me. Wonderful Red Rocks. Yeah, I've never been there. 640 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: It sounds sounds pretty arazing. Yes, the you two much better. Yeah, 641 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: it was even more beautiful and even more acoustically beautiful 642 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: than I ever expected. Was your kid like you too? Mom? 643 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: What come on? We actually I had shown him the 644 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: videos to help him understand sort of, you know. And 645 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: you know, you two also had the fire. There are 646 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:52,959 Speaker 1: these towers down near the stage, and of course they 647 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: had fire blasting out of the towers on and it 648 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 1: was just it was ridiculous. And even the performers, they 649 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: would step out on the stage and these for young people. 650 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: You know, Porter's only twenty eight, twenty seven to twenty eight, 651 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: and all of the other performers were about the same age, 652 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,400 Speaker 1: and so they all of them got up on the 653 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: stage and they were like, holy crap, red rocks. You know, 654 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 1: it's it doesn't It was almost it was so cool 655 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: to see them have the same childlike experience of being 656 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: in this space as the people in the audience were having. 657 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: It was just beautiful. It was on everybody's bucket list, 658 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: performers and audiants alike. Exactly. Yeah. Well, Jess, thank you 659 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 1: so much for doing this. Can you let our listeners 660 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: know where they can find you. You can always find 661 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: me at Jessica Lahy dot com and my social media 662 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,439 Speaker 1: jim a lot. I'm on Twitter a lot and that's 663 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: at Jess Lahey and I'm on Instagram at teacher Lahy. Excellent, Jess, 664 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,399 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Thank you so much 665 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: for having me. All right, Well, that was great. So 666 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,439 Speaker 1: this next question comes from a longtime listener of Best 667 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: of Both Worlds and More recently best laid plans. She 668 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 1: says that she is twenty nine and doesn't have kids yet, 669 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,879 Speaker 1: though she hopes too soon, and she has found best 670 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,839 Speaker 1: of both worlds to be pertinent to her busy life. 671 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: She says on that note, she is addressing this to Sarah, 672 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: I wonder if you and Laura would ever want to 673 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 1: do an episode on how to navigate caring for or 674 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: ranging for care for elderly and aging parents. She is 675 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: an only child of older parents who are in their seventies, 676 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: and her dad is in the early phases of dementia. 677 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: It has been incredibly taxing trying to figure out how 678 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,479 Speaker 1: to organize the times that can help out my mom 679 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: while also trying to balance having a puppy, a demanding job, 680 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: and a spouse. And I can't even imagine how much 681 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: more difficult it would be if she had kids too, 682 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,399 Speaker 1: she says, So she is curious how others navigate this. 683 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: So I don't have an answer. So I chose this question, 684 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: which was sent to me, not because I had an answer, 685 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 1: but because I thought that I think this would be 686 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: a great topic for a future episode, and I was 687 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: sort of hoping maybe somebody else has some good answers 688 00:35:55,080 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: or experiences to share. I know with my parents, you know, 689 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: they're still completely independent, and they've actually done a lot 690 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: of their own future planning as to where they prefer 691 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,839 Speaker 1: to end up, you know, even going so far as 692 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: to putting down a deposit and selecting like a retirement 693 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: community that has increasing phases of care should you need them. 694 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: But my parents did a great job with that and 695 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: are very good planners and I think being very realistic, 696 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: Whereas I know that is not necessarily the case for many, 697 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: because some people don't want to think about those tough 698 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: topics or just feel like those things will work themselves out, 699 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: and maybe sometimes they do, and you just never know 700 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: with this, I mean they this writer wrote something like 701 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 1: everyone will go through this, but that's not true. Not 702 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 1: everybody even gets to have aging parents. Sometimes parents will 703 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: die earlier, or you know, you never know. So I 704 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: guess I'm just looking for some guidance here as well. 705 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 1: I would love to learn from someone who has gone 706 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,400 Speaker 1: through this and has things to share, or perhaps someone 707 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: in the industry who might be able to talk about 708 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,799 Speaker 1: best practices for helping elderly parents. I will say one 709 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: thing is that the Organized three sixty five franchise. Lisa 710 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: Woodruff's company has a lot of good materials that are 711 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,800 Speaker 1: designed to go through like kind of all the nuts 712 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: and bolts of like your family finances, including those of 713 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: elderly relatives, because one of the things that inspired Lisa 714 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 1: was going through her parents' estate after they died, and 715 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: so that has a lot of practical guidance for like 716 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,319 Speaker 1: getting all the bank accounts organized and like doing all 717 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,720 Speaker 1: the kind of practical detailed things, or understanding their medical 718 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,280 Speaker 1: their detailed medical history and corralling that in one place. 719 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: So that is one place you might look towards for 720 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: some resources on how you might kind of get the 721 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: more practical things sorted out, But it doesn't as much 722 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: address the emotional side, which has to be incredibly difficult. Yeah, 723 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: but we'd love to do a future episode with a 724 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: listener who has navigated this and has some good things 725 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: to share, or an expert in the industry who can 726 00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: talk about how to have these conversations with relatives and 727 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: the practical things you need to think about. So feel 728 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: free to reach out to us and we would love 729 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: to get that scheduled. So this has been best of 730 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: both worlds. I've been talking with Jess Lahey on the 731 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 1: addiction inoculation. We will be back next week with more 732 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: on making work and life fit together. Thanks for listening. 733 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com 734 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 1: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can 735 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has 736 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,399 Speaker 1: been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us 737 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,800 Speaker 1: next time for more on making work and life work together.