1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: Hey, it's Lauren Brei Pacheco. This new episode of Wrongful 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: Conviction covers the unbelievable case of Alan Beeman. Such an 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: epic story that we needed to release it as a 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: two parter, Part one right now and part two coming 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: next week. If you're listening in the Wrongful Conviction Feed, 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: stay right here. For those of you who've been listening 7 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: to these episodes in the Murder and Illinois Feed, you'll 8 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: need to head over to Wrongful Conviction for part two 9 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 1: and for the rest of my season With Wrongful Conviction, 10 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: tens of thousands of people incarcerated in the US have 11 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: been wrongfully convicted and are being held in captivity for 12 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: crimes even as they adamantly maintain their innocence. What's it 13 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: like to be one of those imprisoned people, and what's 14 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: it like to be their ally, the one outside committed 15 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: to fighting for their freedom. I'm Lauren Brighte Pacheco, and 16 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: this is Wrongful Conviction. Alan Beaman was twenty one years 17 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: old when his life was forever altered. Going into his 18 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: senior year in college specializing in theatrical lighting design, he 19 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: suddenly found himself ensnared in a police investigation into the 20 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: death of his former girlfriend. Twenty two year old Jennifer 21 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,119 Speaker 1: lock Miller was found dead August twenty eighth, nineteen ninety three, 22 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: in her apartment in Normal, Illinois. She had been strangled 23 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: with a clock radio cord and stabbed in the chest 24 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: with scissors, even though at the time, Allan was living 25 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: with his parents for summer break in Rockford, Illinois, over 26 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty miles away from the murder. The 27 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: following May, Normal Illinois police arrested Beeman on murder charges 28 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: related to the death of Lockmiller an hour after he 29 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: completed his final exam, just weeks before what would have 30 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: been his graduation. Despite the lack of any evidence of 31 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: his guilt, in nineteen ninety five, Beeman was con of 32 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: murder and sentenced to fifty years. He would serve thirteen 33 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: years before the Illinois Supreme Court reversed the conviction and 34 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: the state opted to drop murder charges. It is my 35 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: pleasure to welcome Alan and his parents, Barry and Carol 36 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: to wrongful conviction. Thank you guys for joining me. 37 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 2: Thank you for having us, Thanks Lauren for having us. 38 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: Now I want to take a step back and Alan, 39 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: let's go back a bit. Just tell me how you 40 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: would describe your upbringing and your family before all of 41 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: this happened. 42 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 3: I grew up in a household that was very conservative 43 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 3: and very involved in our community. I was raised to 44 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 3: take the high road, to treat my neighbors with respect 45 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 3: and dignity, and to withhold judgment until I've gotten to 46 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 3: know a person. 47 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: And what were your passions growing up? What were you 48 00:02:58,960 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: obsessed with? 49 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 3: We grew up out in the country, surrounded by pastures 50 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 3: and cornfields. You know, you hear people talk about Generation 51 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 3: X being the feral children, And I was exactly that 52 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 3: left the house at seven in the morning and didn't 53 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 3: come back until seven o'clock at night. And if my 54 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 3: parents saw me in between, it was because I was 55 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 3: either hungry or had to go to the bathroom or both. 56 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 3: From the age of four, I was swinging a hammer. 57 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 3: My parents and I and my brother built our house. Really, 58 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 3: I was driving floorboard nails, and if it wasn't something 59 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 3: that was safe for me to do, like a circular saw, 60 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 3: I was still being instructed on how to do it. 61 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 3: My mom was a teacher and used a very socratic 62 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 3: method and got me to explore the things that I 63 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 3: was curious about without trying to tell me what to think. 64 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 3: So you know, I'm certainly grateful to them for that upbringing, 65 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 3: for the support they've given me over the years. 66 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: Wow, I can't believe you guys built your house together. 67 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: That is definition of a hands on family with a. 68 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 4: Lot of help from our friends and family and Barry. 69 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: I know that Carol was a teacher, But what was 70 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: your profession by trade? 71 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 2: I started with a degree in physics from Illinois Wesleyan University, 72 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 2: and that led me into the Air Force. After I 73 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,679 Speaker 2: got out of the Air Force, I ended up spending 74 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 2: the rest of my career as a quality engineer, both 75 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 2: in mechanical activities and in software. 76 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: So, Allen, you have an engineer for a father, teacher 77 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: for a mother. How did you end up getting drawn 78 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: to theatrical lighting design? 79 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 3: My mom told me that I was very dramatic, and 80 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 3: I started getting involved with the drama club in middle school. 81 00:04:55,560 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 3: I think getting involved in theater and just being naturally handy, 82 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 3: I got appointed to do things. Oh you know how 83 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 3: to do this? Okay, here you go. But as I 84 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 3: got even older, going into college, I just lost interest 85 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 3: in the performance side and really got sucked into the 86 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 3: technical aspects, especially lighting. 87 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: I've read that you were able to combine your love 88 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: of music with a vision you had for your ultimate 89 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 1: career in terms of working on design for concerts. 90 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 3: Eventually, by the time I was in college, that's what 91 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,239 Speaker 3: I wanted to do. I wanted to do lighting design 92 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 3: for rock bands. Not that I wouldn't want to do 93 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 3: that for plays and other things as well, but I 94 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 3: think I always verged on the motion of lighting, so 95 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 3: I think I would have naturally gravitated towards lighting for music, 96 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 3: a feature of that that. 97 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: Takes us really pretty much to write about. When your 98 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: family was abruptly altered by what ended up befalling Alan, 99 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,559 Speaker 1: So you're twenty one years old and you're just weeks 100 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: away from graduation, about to start your adult life. How 101 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: prepared were you or your family for what you'd collectively 102 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: go through for the decades that would follow. 103 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 3: We were not prepared at all to deal with the 104 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 3: legal conundrums that came upon us at all. Growing up 105 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 3: in that rural, conservative environment, I was raised to trust 106 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 3: law enforcement. We did not ever perceive it as a 107 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 3: hostile element that would overtake our lives and attempt to 108 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 3: destroy us. 109 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 4: For me, my experience was just with the police officers 110 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 4: that served in my school, and they were my helpers 111 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 4: if I had difficulty in a classroom. It wasn't something 112 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 4: that even entered my mind in terms of entanglement with 113 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 4: the police. 114 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: So just to set then the stage, and just in 115 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: terms of your relationship with Jennifer, how long had you 116 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: guys dated? How long had you known each other? Were 117 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: you in contact at the time of her murderer? 118 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 3: I met Jennifer, I want to say, in the spring 119 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 3: of my sophomore year in college, when we were both 120 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 3: going to Illinois Wesleyan and we were friends. Nothing romantic 121 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 3: occurred until the summer after that school year, and we 122 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 3: started dating later in that summer and then throughout my 123 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 3: junior year. We dated for about a year and we 124 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 3: broke up about a month before she was murdered. 125 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: So just that circumstance probably made you a little bit 126 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: of an easy target in terms of a lazy investigation. 127 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: But how would you categorize your relationship and the way 128 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: it ended? Was it volatile or there was their animosity? 129 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 3: What you're asking there is speaking to the initial suspicion 130 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 3: we had an on again off again. Relationship, we broke 131 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 3: up several times. There were a lot of public conflicts 132 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 3: that we had in front of other people, friends and 133 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 3: even family, and so I think it was only natural 134 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 3: for a police investigator to initially say, hey, we got 135 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 3: to talk to this guy, and if that had been 136 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 3: where it ended, it would have made perfect sense. Unfortunately, 137 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 3: as you mentioned, the potential for a lazy investigation with that, 138 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 3: you know, the statistics probably tell them that most of 139 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 3: the time it's the ex boyfriend, and that's great, that 140 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 3: gives you a lead to start with, but that is 141 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 3: not evidence. Is that should not be indicative of probable cause, 142 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 3: And so I think they just jumped to that conclusion 143 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 3: very early on and did not go through the steps 144 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 3: that are necessary to rule things out with scientific method. 145 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: Do you remember how you collectively found out as had 146 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,199 Speaker 1: happened in the first place. 147 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 4: At the time of the murder, how he found out? 148 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 4: It started with a knock at the door. Alan had 149 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 4: just left to go meet some friends at Denny's who 150 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 4: were leaving for college the next day, and within the 151 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 4: hour of that knock on the door, we received a 152 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 4: phone call from the county jail, where they had Alan 153 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 4: for questioning and Alan said he had been allowed to 154 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 4: call us, and he told us he was being questioned 155 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 4: about something and he didn't know where his car was 156 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 4: and could we come pick him up. He had been 157 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 4: picked up on the road going into town to meet 158 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 4: his friends and question. 159 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 2: That was about two o'clock in the morning, as I recall, Yes, so. 160 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: You thought your son was out with friends and he 161 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: was a actually at the police station. Alan, how did 162 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: you were just pulled over? 163 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 3: Yeah? I was about halfway to the city limits when 164 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 3: I noticed that there was a squad car behind me. 165 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 3: I tried very hard to make sure I drove exactly 166 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 3: the speed limit while he was behind me, and then 167 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 3: crossed over into the city limits and was immediately pulled over. 168 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 3: So then I thought I have long hair, you know. 169 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 3: I thought it was the typical stuff that I had 170 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 3: experienced while in college. But this time the officer was 171 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 3: standing in front of me with his side arm drawn 172 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 3: and there was a police dog, and I was told 173 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 3: to get out of the car. They patted me down 174 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 3: and then maybe asked if there were any weapons. 175 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: What was going through your head? 176 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 3: I was in shock. I really didn't have a coherent 177 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 3: thought going on in my head, but when I was 178 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 3: placed in the squad car, I finally gathered up my 179 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 3: senses and I asked the officer, Hey, can you tell 180 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 3: me what the is about? And he said, some detectives 181 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 3: from Normal want to talk to you about a homicide. 182 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 3: So I'm in shock, sitting in the squad car, thinking 183 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 3: who do I know in Normal that could have possibly 184 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 3: been involved in a homicide to where they want to 185 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 3: talk to me? And I could think of a few people, 186 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 3: and then of course there was Jennifer. I stayed in 187 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 3: that squad car right there until a detective's car came 188 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 3: up and it had passengers who were Tony Daniels, a 189 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 3: detective from Normal, and Tony's partner. I got into that car, 190 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:40,479 Speaker 3: I was still handcuffed. 191 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: So you're handcuffed. They've not told you why, what You've 192 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: been accused of? Nothing? 193 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 3: Nothing, I know. I'm in handcuffs and they want to 194 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 3: talk to me about a homicide. And I guess if 195 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,599 Speaker 3: I were a little more street wise, I would have 196 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 3: realized that I was a suspect. But I didn't grow 197 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 3: up in the environment where I ever expected to be 198 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 3: a suspect. I didn't know what was going on. I'm 199 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 3: just supposed to speak when I'm spoken to, and respect 200 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 3: the police officers who are doing their job. 201 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: But even though you had long hair, you didn't exactly 202 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: have a long wrap sheet. In fact, you had no 203 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: criminal history, that is correct. When did they tell you 204 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: that Jennifer had been murdered? And how did they tell you? 205 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 3: When I got into the squad car with Tony Daniels, 206 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 3: I asked him what is this about? And he simply said, well, Allen, 207 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 3: we want to talk to you about your friend. And 208 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 3: it seemed very cryptic to me. I felt like he 209 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 3: did not really want to answer my question yet, and 210 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 3: so I opted to be polite and again respect law enforcement, 211 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 3: and I did not press the issue. We rode back 212 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 3: to the police station in Rockford and I was placed 213 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 3: in an interrogation room with a couple of chairs and. 214 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: Questioned for how long before you could call your parents? 215 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 3: I want to say it was about an hour and 216 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 3: a half. And he gave me my Miranda rights and 217 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 3: all that, and I probably could have walked out right 218 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 3: then and there, but again, that's not something you do 219 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 3: when you've grown up to respect law enforcement and you've 220 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 3: got nothing to hide. And he started asking me questions 221 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 3: and most of the questions were either about my whereabouts 222 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 3: throughout the week or about Jennifer. And eventually I could 223 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 3: figure out from the line of questioning something was going 224 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 3: on with Jennifer, and they had told me there was 225 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 3: a homicide, and so I pieced that together. And he 226 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 3: challenged me, like, how come you haven't asked me if 227 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 3: she's okay? And I said, is Jennifer dead? And he 228 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 3: said yes. And I again still in shock, but now 229 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 3: even more so in shock and being accused of now 230 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 3: knowing something that I'm not supposed to know, just because 231 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 3: I can put pieces together. And so he did this 232 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 3: whole very sort of evasive and then accusatory, and then 233 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 3: evasive and then accusatory. And he would tell me one 234 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 3: thing and then he would change it and tell me, oh, no, 235 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 3: that's not really what it is, it's this. And so 236 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 3: he told me she was dead. He told me she 237 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 3: was alive in a hospital calling my name. After about 238 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 3: an hour and a half of this interview, where it 239 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 3: really didn't seem like he was interested in hearing what 240 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 3: I really had to say, but was just trying to 241 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 3: provoke me and wanted me to say what he wanted 242 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 3: me to say, I finally said, you said that I'm 243 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 3: not under arrest, so that means I don't have to stay. 244 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 3: So I'm leaving. And I got up and I left. 245 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 3: But I walked out of the police station and I 246 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 3: didn't know where my car was, and I could find 247 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 3: a payphone, and so I called my parents. 248 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: So all of this at this point early morning drama. 249 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: Did it ever occur to you, Barry or you Carol 250 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: that this was anything other than a horrible event and 251 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: a crazy misunderstanding. Did you think was it in terms 252 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: of what Alan had just been through. 253 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 4: The next day, Alan was supposed to sing at church, 254 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 4: and we asked him when we got him home, what 255 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 4: are you going to do about that? And you want 256 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 4: us to call and cancel? And he said no, he 257 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 4: was going to go ahead. We went to church and 258 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 4: he did his solo and then we talked to our 259 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 4: pastor about what do we do next, and he got 260 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 4: us in touch with a lawyer, a family friend who 261 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 4: kind of advised Alan at that point and advised us 262 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 4: to just keep Alan away from the police at that time, 263 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 4: and they did show up at our house Sunday afternoon. 264 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 2: Sunday afternoon, my father and I were trying to move 265 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 2: a cabinet into the house that my parents had brought 266 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 2: from their home to us, and these two huge men 267 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 2: walked up and said, can we help you with that, 268 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 2: and picked it up and moved it in forrest, set 269 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 2: it in a corner, and then told us they'd like 270 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 2: to talk to Alan. And I said, I got some 271 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 2: concerns about this. 272 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: And you all knew that, Allan, you were what over 273 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty miles closer to one hundred and 274 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: forty miles away from the scene of where this tragedy occurred, 275 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: and you're living at home for the summer, So I 276 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: should think that you all just thought, obviously it was 277 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: impossible that you were involved. 278 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 3: We all believed in my family that the detectives would 279 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 3: do their job, investigate the case, and they are professionals 280 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 3: and they know what they're doing, and that at a 281 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 3: certain point they would realize, yeah, this is the wrong 282 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 3: way to go, and that they would move on. Unfortunately, 283 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 3: I think, you know, and I'm editorializing here, there was 284 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 3: so much pressure on the department and on the county 285 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 3: to find someone that when their investigation broke down and 286 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 3: their ability to properly investigate failed they just decided, we 287 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 3: got this guy here, he looks pretty crazy. We can 288 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 3: probably make him look bad, and that's our guy. 289 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: Alan. You mentioned having long hair, and your sense of 290 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: righteous indignation was also growing. How do you think that 291 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: combination could have made things worse for you? 292 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 3: I was a dirty hippie in college, and I think, 293 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 3: you know, it did probably add to the opportunity to 294 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 3: make me a target. But I was also really frustrated 295 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 3: that they were accusing me of something I didn't do, 296 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 3: and I was very angry about that, and I reacted poorly, 297 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 3: which should be understandable coming from an adolescent essentially who's 298 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 3: being accused of something. 299 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: And dealing with grief. 300 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 3: Well, it was denied that I couldn't grieve because I 301 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 3: learned about her death by being accused of murdering her, 302 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 3: and I never had the opportunity to experience a neutral 303 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 3: individual perception of her death, to say, you know, man, 304 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 3: somebody that I cared about has died and I'm really grieving. 305 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 3: And even though things didn't end great between us, I 306 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 3: didn't wish this on her, you know, I didn't have 307 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 3: the opportunity to do that, and under the circumstances with 308 00:18:55,560 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 3: the police scrutiny and the obvious perception that went along 309 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 3: with that. I didn't feel comfortable going to the funeral. 310 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 3: I didn't feel comfortable interacting with other people that loved her, 311 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 3: and so I was very much alone in my grief 312 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 3: and I couldn't really explore it with other people who 313 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 3: had the same feeling. 314 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 1: Which also played into the narrative exactly. 315 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 3: That was again further used against me, and so they 316 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 3: had a lot of opportunity to say, Oh, he's really fishy, 317 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 3: something's not right, and unfortunately, in the current state of 318 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 3: our legal system, that is what passes for evidence. 319 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: So you end up going back to school and Carol 320 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: and Barry, you have been staunch defenders of your son 321 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 1: and supporters of him and adamant believers in his enna sence. 322 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: Did the police ever try to manipulate your opinion of 323 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: your son or try to cast out on him or 324 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 1: his character. 325 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 2: No, they did not. Lieutenant Daniels, who was the was 326 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 2: the lead detective coming to Rockford to talk to Alan, 327 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 2: concluded by the time he left Rockford that Allan probably 328 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 2: didn't do it, and he held that belief throughout the 329 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 2: trial as well. Wow and eventually through depositions and things 330 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 2: like that. Became one of Allan's top cheerleaders. 331 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: So the nightmare certainly didn't end when you went back 332 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: for your senior year. You go back and you're trying 333 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: to focus on finishing up your degree and the police 334 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: are continuing to pop in. How and when did they 335 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: show up and how invasive was it in terms of 336 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: your ability to be a student. 337 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 3: It was always a surprise when they showed up. They 338 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 3: occasionally would have somebody from campus security with them, sanctioning 339 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 3: and supervisoring their visit to the campus. But I think 340 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 3: the first time I met Tim Freiesmeyer was outside the theater, 341 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 3: and I think he kind of was lying in wait 342 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 3: for me to come out a door that I typically used. 343 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 3: So the first time I met him, he served a 344 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 3: warrant to collect biological samples from me. And my thought was, 345 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 3: this is good. They're collecting actual evidence. That means that 346 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 3: they have something to compare this to, and my worries 347 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 3: will be over. They will realize, Okay, it wasn't him, 348 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 3: and so you know, I didn't put up any fuss. 349 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 3: I just went with them and I was like, all right, 350 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 3: this is great. And they took me to the hospital 351 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 3: and had a technician take samples from me. Then after 352 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 3: those were taken, they took me back to the police 353 00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 3: station and fingerprinted me and took the miss photograph of 354 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 3: me that eventually appeared in the newspaper, making me look 355 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 3: very rough and scruffy, I should add. They picked me 356 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,479 Speaker 3: up in the middle of tech week for a show 357 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 3: that I was designing for, and I had not slept 358 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 3: the night before. I had not slept much that week 359 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 3: at all. I had not bathed very much that week 360 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 3: at all. I had not shaved, I had not brushed 361 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 3: my teeth that night. I was disgusting, even more so 362 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,479 Speaker 3: than usual. And that's when they took the picture of 363 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,959 Speaker 3: me that they later put in the newspaper. 364 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: So are you looping your parents in about the frequent 365 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 1: visitors in your life at that point? Are you trying 366 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: to protect them? 367 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just trying to protect not loop. 368 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 3: Yes to protecting. I didn't believe it was really a 369 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 3: big problem because I was so confident that they were 370 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 3: going to to rule me out and move on. 371 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,199 Speaker 1: Did you guys, though, pick up on the fact that 372 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: it was impacting Alan emotionally? 373 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 4: We did not. However, we went down to campus one 374 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 4: weekend to see the show that he had been working on. 375 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 4: He wasn't there. He was over in Peoria at a 376 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 4: friend's wedding that weekend, and we went to the show 377 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 4: and one of Alan's faculty advisors said, do you realize 378 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 4: how often he's being questioned? And that's the first we 379 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 4: knew that he was being questioned frequently. And also on 380 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 4: that first we found out that he was being taken 381 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 4: out of classes from a professor who had a no 382 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 4: cut policy, which eventually impacted Alan's graduation as well. 383 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,959 Speaker 1: And then you get arrested. Can you tell me how? 384 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: And when that went down? 385 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 3: It was on my life last day, my last final 386 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 3: exam for my theater history class. And when I left 387 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 3: the final exam, I went to the dining hall and 388 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 3: while I was sitting eating my dinner, Tim Freiesmeyer came 389 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,640 Speaker 3: into the dining hall, walked up to me and said, Hey, 390 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 3: can I talk to you for a minute, And so 391 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 3: I was like, fine, let's let's go talk. And so 392 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 3: I walked out of the dining hall with him, and 393 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 3: I was walking towards a door that I typically used 394 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 3: that would get us outside, and he was like, no, 395 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 3: we need to go this way. So I followed him 396 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 3: to the other side of the building, and when we 397 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 3: walked out of the door, there was like twenty squad 398 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 3: cars out there, just a whole bunch of cops out there. 399 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 3: But I just remember looking around and seeing cops everywhere, 400 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 3: so I thought, Okay, this is different. And he said, 401 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 3: I need you to come down to the station with me, 402 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 3: and I said, I don't think I want to go 403 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 3: down to the station with you. And he said, I'm 404 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 3: going to have to place you under arrest if you're 405 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 3: not going to come with me, And I said, then 406 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 3: you need to arrest me here. So he handcuffed me 407 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 3: right there in front of the student center, in front 408 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 3: of all of my classmates and professors and people coming 409 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 3: and going around the campus, put me in his car 410 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 3: and took me to the Normal Police department. And I 411 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 3: don't even know how that works with jurisdiction because it 412 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 3: was actually in Bloomington, but I think he just wanted 413 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 3: to be credited for the arrest or something. I don't know, 414 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 3: but he took me back to Normal and then booked 415 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 3: me there and I made my phone call. 416 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,120 Speaker 1: Tell me about that phone call, You guys who answered 417 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: the phone Carol or Barry, as Carol did I did. 418 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 4: I had just gotten home from my last graduate class 419 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 4: and found out that my thesis had been accepted. And 420 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 4: I honestly can't tell you right at this point whether 421 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 4: we spoke in person or whether you had left a 422 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 4: message on the phone, but it was get in touch 423 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 4: with Bill, my lawyer. I've been arrested. And that was 424 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 4: the end of my celebration of graduation. And Barry was 425 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 4: at a meeting at the public observatory. And I called 426 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 4: Bill right away, and I called Barry at the observatory, 427 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 4: and within an hour we were on our way to 428 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 4: normal to try to get Alan out. We couldn't. We 429 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 4: had to wait a while to get him out. But 430 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 4: that was a drastic change to life at. 431 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: That point, In that moment of finding out that your 432 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: son had been arrested, when you got in the car 433 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: and you drove there, what was that reality like for you, 434 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: that kind of sense of helplessness to realize that you 435 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: can't just say you've made a mistake. He's my son 436 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: and he's coming home with us. What was that helplessness 437 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: like for you? 438 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 2: Guys? 439 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: How would you explain it? 440 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 4: Total frustration determination on my part. There had to be 441 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 4: a way. 442 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: How long did they hold you there before I assume 443 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 1: that you posted bond. 444 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 3: I was in the county jail. I want to say, 445 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 3: maybe ten. 446 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 2: Days, yeah, probably until the arraignment. 447 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 3: There was a bond hearing and several of my classmates 448 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 3: were called and some of my family members were called 449 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,679 Speaker 3: to testify about what sort of person I was, to 450 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 3: help the court determine I guess, whether I was a 451 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 3: flight risk, or whether there was some risk that I 452 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 3: might harm some other person if I were out on bond, 453 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 3: and those sorts of things. The state's attorney, of course, 454 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 3: tried to get it to where there was no bond, 455 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 3: and my attorney asked for a bond, but the judge 456 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 3: set the bond at one million dollars. So at that 457 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 3: point I thought, well, this is not going to happen. 458 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 3: But my uncle owned several grocery stores, and he made 459 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 3: the decision to take money out of that business. If 460 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 3: you have a one million dollar bond, it means you 461 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,439 Speaker 3: need to put up one hundred thousand dollars to be 462 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 3: able to bond out. And so he put up the 463 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 3: money from his businesses and risked those businesses, and he 464 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 3: wasn't a rich man. He had a good business that 465 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 3: he had built over many of many years and worked 466 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 3: very hard to build, and he did that for me, 467 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 3: and I'm forever grateful. 468 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: It's the ripple effect of these injustices, how they impact. 469 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 4: The uncle Alan was talking about as my brother. I'm 470 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 4: the baby sister. He's ninety three now. But he was 471 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 4: determined that he was going to help us whatever way 472 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 4: he could, And so I guess I knew family sticks together, 473 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 4: and if it's in God's will, it will happen. And 474 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 4: it takes a long time sometimes, but but yeah, a 475 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 4: lot of frustration and a lot of concern, but always 476 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,719 Speaker 4: determination that this was going to be taken care of. 477 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: What was the transition like for you, Alan, in those 478 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: ten days before you bonded out, What was it like 479 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: being held? 480 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 3: I reacted very irrationally to the confinement and probably rationally 481 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 3: to the injustice. I was very angry and terrified. At 482 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 3: the same time. I was desperately pleaded with anybody that 483 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 3: walked past my cell that there had been a terrible 484 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 3: mistake and that they had the wrong guy. I was 485 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 3: going through nicotine withdrawal and just absolutely beside myself about 486 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 3: the wrongness of my circumstances. I just panicked. Whenever I 487 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 3: talked to my parents on the phone. I was not 488 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 3: very nice. I demanded that they get me out of here. 489 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 3: And it was not my proudest moment. And I don't 490 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 3: know how much processing I did with any of it 491 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 3: at that time. There's a lot that I've gone through 492 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 3: in the last thirty years that I still haven't completely 493 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 3: processed as far as that's concerned. 494 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 4: Understandably, he was angry, he was scared, and we were 495 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 4: scared for him. 496 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 2: I was feeling like a failure as a father. I 497 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 2: couldn't do anything to get him out of there. 498 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 4: I do remember that we were told we could bring 499 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 4: him some clothes, long underwear. You remember that we wanted 500 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 4: to make sure he was warm because he said it 501 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 4: was cold in the cell. Other than that's one of 502 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 4: those odd things you remember. 503 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, because you want to provide whatever comfort in 504 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,239 Speaker 1: a situation like that you can. What were some of 505 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: the realizations, the realities you had to come to terms 506 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: with as you headed into trial. What most surprised you 507 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: about that process? And Carol, why don't you start. 508 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 4: I'm not sure anything really surprised us, other than I 509 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 4: couldn't figure out why the logic of everything didn't make 510 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 4: sense to the jurors. 511 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 3: It has been professionally compared to the Trial of the 512 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 3: Knave from Lewis Carroll, where everything that came up was 513 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 3: obviously suspicious. This is suspicious, and that is suspicious. And 514 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 3: oh my gosh, he's defending himself that is suspicious. And 515 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 3: he's angry about being accused. That is suspicious. And there 516 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 3: was a very a consistent pattern throughout the entire trial 517 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 3: that there was no evidence. It was entirely made up 518 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 3: of conjecture. They would take excerpts from letters that I 519 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 3: had written, and they would leave out the parts of 520 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 3: the letter that didn't fit with what they wanted, and 521 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 3: only present the parts of the letter that they felt 522 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 3: could make me look bad. They even had I had 523 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 3: been scribbling on the back of her address book. And 524 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 3: I don't even remember what when this was. It may 525 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 3: have been early on in our relationship, it may have 526 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 3: been later, but Pearl Jam's ten had just come out, 527 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 3: and I was trying to write down the lyrics to 528 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 3: the song. And you remember, back when you didn't have 529 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,719 Speaker 3: the internet, you had to play the tape stop it 530 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 3: rewind it, play it again and try. And Eddie Vetter 531 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 3: is really hard to understand sometimes. And so I was 532 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 3: writing down the lyrics to the song black and they 533 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 3: found that at her apartment and they accused me of 534 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 3: writing it as a poem about her. And so I 535 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 3: probably should have been felt honored to be accused of 536 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 3: being Eddie Vetter. It was just it for me, capitalized 537 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 3: the ridiculousness and the ignorance that went into the developing 538 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 3: of their case in. 539 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: Terms of how how Alan was then portrayed. Am I 540 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 1: write in recalling that they actually compared you to Adolph 541 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: Hitler in the closing statements. 542 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 3: You are correct? 543 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 4: Oh, yes. 544 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 3: During the closing arguments, Jim Suke not only compared me 545 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 3: to add Off Hitler, but also quoted scripture from the 546 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,879 Speaker 3: Bible about how the devil is a roaring lion going 547 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:27,320 Speaker 3: about to seek whomever he may be may destroy. There's 548 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 3: so much theater involved in the way this case was prosecuted, 549 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 3: and probably most cases involve some level of that, and 550 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 3: I understand that, but there was no evidence. And this 551 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 3: is the frustrating thing, is that you can get up 552 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 3: and you can just present nothing but conjecture and suspicion 553 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 3: and get everybody all upset with the comparisons, and the 554 00:34:54,600 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 3: jury will remove themselves from their responsibility to to actually 555 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 3: expect proof beyond a reasonable. 556 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,280 Speaker 1: Doubt, because then it becomes emotional. 557 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,839 Speaker 3: I did not expect that. I genuinely walked into this 558 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 3: trial believing that I was going to be vindicated because 559 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 3: the evidence did not point to me. 560 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: You're listening to Wrongful Conviction with Lauren Bright Pacheco. You 561 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: can listen to this and all the Lava for Good 562 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing to 563 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. So take me 564 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: to the moment of the verdict. 565 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 3: The trial was about three weeks and the jury deliberate, 566 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 3: deliberated for more than a couple of days, and I 567 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 3: think we were going into the Final four tournament. 568 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 4: It was the weekend of the Final four tournament, April. 569 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 3: First, and on April Fool's Day. I was a real 570 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 3: April fool for believing that our justice system was going 571 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 3: to vindicate me. 572 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: Wow. 573 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 4: When the verdict was read, I mouthed to the state's attorney, 574 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 4: which I should not have done. It's a wonder I 575 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,919 Speaker 4: didn't get reprimited for it. How do you sleep at night? 576 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 4: But that's as they were handcuffing Alan back and taking 577 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 4: him out to where we would not see him again 578 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 4: for a long time. 579 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 1: What went through your body, Barry, when you heard a 580 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 1: guilty verdict? 581 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 2: I heard the judge reading it, and I could swear 582 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 2: to this day that as he started to read that, 583 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 2: he said this says guilty, as if to say, I 584 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 2: didn't expect that. And I will also point out that 585 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 2: all the women on that jury, we're crying is that 586 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 2: verdict was read. What's that tell you? 587 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 3: I do remember after the verdict was read, there was 588 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 3: an audible gasp in the room collectively, and then it 589 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 3: was pretty quickly chaos after that, where bailiffs were moving 590 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 3: through the room towards me and people were standing up, 591 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:30,800 Speaker 3: and I looked behind me, after collecting myself to encourage 592 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 3: my family and say, hey, I'm gonna be okay. Just 593 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 3: the motion, just the step I took towards my family 594 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,720 Speaker 3: as I stood up, was too much for the police 595 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,879 Speaker 3: officers in the room, and I was immediately affronted from 596 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 3: several directions by officers yelling move it and pushing me 597 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 3: out of the room. Into the bullpen, and of course 598 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,760 Speaker 3: I had been coming in on my own recognissance throughout 599 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 3: that trial, and so this was very sudden change, in 600 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 3: a very drastic, almost violent interaction. 601 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:11,760 Speaker 1: Immediately immediately, you're seen as an entirely different. 602 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 3: Human, not human. 603 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 2: I was in just a state of disbelief at that point. 604 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 2: But and I do remember walking out of there. We'd 605 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,400 Speaker 2: been fairly willing to talk to the press during a 606 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 2: lot of this. We didn't say a lot, but we 607 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,879 Speaker 2: talked with them, and they're standing there with their microphones 608 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,320 Speaker 2: and everything, and they just wave and say, no, not now, 609 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 2: we can't talk now, and we walked on out. 610 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: You were sentenced to fifty years, yes, to life, which 611 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,960 Speaker 1: at that point in your lives, Carolin Barry, was very 612 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 1: much a life sentence for both of you. Yes, I 613 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: can't even imagine how you processed that. 614 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 2: I just felt my life's over. I have no right 615 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 2: to go, do anything or be anything from this point on. 616 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 1: And I can very much understand the struggle because, as 617 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 1: another mother told me, she served every single day with 618 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 1: her daughter in a different way, her life stopped. 619 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,839 Speaker 4: Now for me, it was a little different. I got 620 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 4: my dander up at that point. I got angry, and 621 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:31,760 Speaker 4: I was determined that I was going to do whatever 622 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 4: I could to help defend Alan and to get him out. 623 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: And eventually they did, but it would take more than 624 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 1: a decade. Coming up on part two of Alan Beeman's 625 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:50,239 Speaker 1: Unbelievable Wrongful Conviction, Alan's case attracts the attention of a 626 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: very famous criminal defense attorney. 627 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 3: Jeffer Dangen called my mom and told her I don't 628 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 3: like him, but I believe him. 629 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: Which leads to an equal the incredible opportunity to enlist 630 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 1: law students on his behalf. 631 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 4: Said, I've got a chance to go to Northwestern and 632 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:10,400 Speaker 4: I can take along a case. 633 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,839 Speaker 1: But even with all that help, Alan Beeman would still 634 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:18,279 Speaker 1: sit in prison for thirteen years and fight for decades 635 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: more to clear his name, all ending in a headline 636 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:35,720 Speaker 1: making settlement but not necessarily justice. Thank you for listening 637 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: to Wrongful Conviction. I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco. Please support your 638 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,400 Speaker 1: local innocence organizations and go to the links in the 639 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 1: episode description to see how you can help. I'd like 640 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 1: to thank our executive producers Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, and 641 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: Kevin Wardis, as well as our producers Annie Chelsea, Kathleen Fink, 642 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: and Jackie Paully. This series is produced, edited, and hosted 643 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:02,279 Speaker 1: by me Lauren Bright Pacheco. Our senior producer is Kara Kornhaber. 644 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:07,280 Speaker 1: Story editing by Hannah Bial, research by Shelby Sorels, mixing 645 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 1: and sound design by Nick Massetti, with additional production by 646 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 1: Jeff Clyborne. Our theme music is by Jay Ralph. Be 647 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 1: sure to follow us across all social media platforms at 648 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also 649 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,480 Speaker 1: follow me on all platforms at Lauren Bright Pacheco. Wrongful 650 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in 651 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,919 Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one