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Speaker 1: And welcome to Thursday's this year a Big Blue Kickoff

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Speaker 1: live here on Giants dot Com. He's pulled the Tino

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Speaker 1: on Lance Metal. Good to be with you for the

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Speaker 1: next sixty minutes or reminder, Big Blue Kickoff Live presented

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Speaker 1: by Corps Light. Download the Coors Live Rewards app to

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Speaker 1: win Amazing Giants prizes. We will look ahead to the

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Speaker 1: Pro Bowl. Will also get into. Gilbrandt on NFL dot

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Speaker 1: Com had a nice breakdown of the two thousand eighteen

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Speaker 1: All Rookie NFL team. His sol A number of giants correct,

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Speaker 1: those are his selections. We're gonna get some feedback on that.

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Speaker 1: I want to hear what you have to think and

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Speaker 1: also highlight what he had to say about a few

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Speaker 1: giants that did make the team but off the top.

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Speaker 1: As usual this week, we are now joined by our

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Speaker 1: very own John Schmilk from Mobile, Alabama as we get

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Speaker 1: the latest from the Senior ball. John, how we doing today?

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting on the bleachers and Latin Teable Stadium. The

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Speaker 1: sun is out and it's the Little Chile. It's going

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Speaker 1: to be a beautiful day practice. You sent your reign

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Speaker 1: up to New York and New Jersey because it is

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Speaker 1: like someone put a fire hose on the Metropolitan areas. John,

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Speaker 1: It's pouring up. It's bad, horrendous, the floods all around

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Speaker 1: the stadium. I have a very important question. When is

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Speaker 1: this rainge supposed to cool out? Being my flight's supposed

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Speaker 1: to land late tonight and I don't want it to

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Speaker 1: be here another day. I believe sometime mid afternoon. Okay,

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Speaker 1: then we should be okay, I think you're gonna be.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad the sun is at least shouting on you

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Speaker 1: and you can actually get to watch practice today. Say,

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Speaker 1: it is cold though, it's probably only in the upper

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Speaker 1: forties right now, and it's pretty weddy, so wouldnt show

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Speaker 1: probably around all right? Now? What what are you expecting

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Speaker 1: to see today? Is it much like the first day

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Speaker 1: of practice that you were there for a couple of

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Speaker 1: days ago? Are there different types of drills, different types

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Speaker 1: of scenarios that you're gonna be able to catch? And then,

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Speaker 1: of course yesterday they went inside. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you guys were able to get any scuttle bug while

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Speaker 1: you were around the hotel. Yeah, it's it's today should

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Speaker 1: be a regular practice. Um, it's not like a Friday

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Speaker 1: practice in the NFL season. We're the lock though as

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Speaker 1: far as I understand we are. We were here for

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Speaker 1: this practice last year, so maybe I'll prove to be

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Speaker 1: proven wrong. That is more like a Friday practice. But UM,

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Speaker 1: my understand is that it should be a prize for

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Speaker 1: every pretty much does what they do. UM, and we

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Speaker 1: should be able to see a good amount of stuff

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Speaker 1: after practice yesterday. UM, I did uh learn a couple

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Speaker 1: of things talking to people. There were two pool reporters

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Speaker 1: there that kind of sent reports out to everybody. UM.

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Speaker 1: Daniel Jones through two interceptions that practice yesterday. UM, next year,

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Speaker 1: Adderlie that safety at Adela I've been telling you about,

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Speaker 1: had one of them jumped a route on a little

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Speaker 1: bit of an out. I saw a video of that play. Um,

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Speaker 1: so he had a nice play. UM. Let me tell

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Speaker 1: you what else did I say? UM. The wide receiver

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Speaker 1: from South Carolina actually had a really good matchup over

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Speaker 1: the course of practice with Rocky Sin and they were

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Speaker 1: lined up almost with seem like on every play. So

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Speaker 1: you with those guys really going at it, which was

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Speaker 1: a really fun thing to watch. Deebo, Samuel and rock

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Speaker 1: You Sin. Rock Usin made a couple of nice plays

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Speaker 1: and then Samuel probably made the catch of the day.

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Speaker 1: It was a deep throw that kind of was you know,

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Speaker 1: they were kindly calling it a back show the throw,

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Speaker 1: but I just think it was an under throne ball

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Speaker 1: that went far outside and he made a nice uh

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Speaker 1: justin on his body to kind of jump and get

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Speaker 1: his speed in and I'll make the catch over you,

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Speaker 1: sin Well. I was looking at to your practice report

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Speaker 1: from yesterday and I know you mentioned that obviously you

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Speaker 1: had seen some video online and also spoke to some

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Speaker 1: individuals who were there. But you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: guys that had a lot of hype surrounding him was

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Speaker 1: Jalen Ferguson from Louisiana Tech, who was the n c

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Speaker 1: A career leader in sacks with forty five. But you

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Speaker 1: know you had noted that he really hasn't made much

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Speaker 1: of an impact over the last few days. Any reason

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Speaker 1: why he hasn't really jumped off the practice field with

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Speaker 1: respect to that, Yeah, the Atlants, not just to him.

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Speaker 1: I think the two pass rushers that I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people thought could help themselves a lot here

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Speaker 1: were Jalen Ferguson from Louisian Attack and the Ocean Zimenez

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Speaker 1: kids from Old Dominion who are very talented pass rushers

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Speaker 1: and could be early day to late Day one selections.

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Speaker 1: And both guys that have had a couple of moments

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Speaker 1: here there, but we haven't seen them been able to

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Speaker 1: consistently win one on one against better competition and better

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Speaker 1: athletes to tap goal than what those guys saw during

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Speaker 1: the season. And that was the real trick for those guys.

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Speaker 1: You know, were they just out at athleting people for

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Speaker 1: lack of a better where were they just more athletic

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Speaker 1: than the guys that were facing and that's why they

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Speaker 1: were effective. Do they have the technique and things like

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Speaker 1: that necessary to beat better athletes and at least so

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Speaker 1: far this week and maybe it will change today or Saturday. Um,

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Speaker 1: they haven't done that. Marcus Davenport last week last year,

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Speaker 1: didn't do much the first couple of days of practice.

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Speaker 1: Game on Thursday, they had a big time game. So

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Speaker 1: that's the guy those two should really try to copy

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Speaker 1: in terms of how they finished their week here. And

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Speaker 1: they want to impress some of these scouts. Remember this

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Speaker 1: is the last time they see these guys in Pat's

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Speaker 1: doing football stuff. You know, it's great they show off

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Speaker 1: at the combine and then they put up good numbers

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Speaker 1: running around and their underwear. That's great, but this is

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Speaker 1: the last years they have a chance to compete against

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Speaker 1: better players than they've competed on and on tape all year.

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Speaker 1: So we'll see how they do. John, I know you're

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Speaker 1: sitting up for the blatchers, but can you tell how

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Speaker 1: the field conditions are? That that's a grass field right there?

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Speaker 1: Practicing on the stadium field is real grass? Yes, I am.

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Speaker 1: Let me walk down the bleachers and I will check

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Speaker 1: it out right now. And actually, unfortunately, and after I

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Speaker 1: did my interview with you yesterday, I thought about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, hold on a second, is that

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Speaker 1: feel grass? And I'm walking down here and I give

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Speaker 1: you that information, essay, So that is my fault. It

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Speaker 1: is actually the rubber turf and do practice on the

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Speaker 1: here at the stadium field. So the field conditions are

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Speaker 1: absolutely fine. Okay, Well then that then my question is mood,

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Speaker 1: because I was going to say, is it possible that

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Speaker 1: some guys may be inhibited by what could be a wet,

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Speaker 1: soggy surface, But that's not an issue. You know how

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Speaker 1: I love field conditions, John, You know me well enough

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Speaker 1: to know that no one likes feel conditions more. That's

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Speaker 1: very true. And weather conditions too well. I was gonna say, John,

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Speaker 1: if you have a second kid, you take a piece

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Speaker 1: of the field, put it in a sample bag and

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Speaker 1: send it back to our lamps so we can get

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Speaker 1: some real analysis. That'd be great. I'm on it, thank you.

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Speaker 1: We need to get the true exititos breakdown of the

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Speaker 1: field conditions. So, in terms of moving forward here before

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Speaker 1: you leave, who are you looking forward to perhaps really

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Speaker 1: making a name for himself in this final day of practice.

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Speaker 1: I think the two guys you mentioned lands quite frankly,

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Speaker 1: Ferguson and Zamanez are two guys that I want to

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Speaker 1: see kind of show up and and and do well.

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Speaker 1: I would like to see Andre Dillard from Washington State

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Speaker 1: be a little bit more consistent. I think he's flash

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Speaker 1: some really good reps, but I see him getting beat

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Speaker 1: a few times too. I want to see him be

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Speaker 1: a little bit better. I want to see the quarterback

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Speaker 1: step of None of these quarterbacks to me, have helped

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Speaker 1: themselves in my eyes this week. I didn't think any

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Speaker 1: of these guys are first round picks before I showed

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Speaker 1: up here. I still don't think any of these guys

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Speaker 1: should be first round picks. Now, I think somebody will

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Speaker 1: get picked in the first round views that teams do

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Speaker 1: with quarterbacks, but so far, none of the guys here

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Speaker 1: this week to me, have looked like Baker Mayfield look

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Speaker 1: last year, or even like Josh Allen MC last year

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Speaker 1: where you saw the law of tools even though he

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Speaker 1: was inconsistent and accurate, you saw Okay, I get it.

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Speaker 1: If this guy puts it together from accurate stampoint, he

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Speaker 1: can be a star and up all quarterback. I don't

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Speaker 1: see that with any of the guys here. Maybe second

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Speaker 1: round shore, but I would not pick him in the

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Speaker 1: first final question from me, John, As you walk around

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Speaker 1: the facility and you get to chat with a bunch

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Speaker 1: of these folks, are there a bunch of people there

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Speaker 1: talking about Murray and Haskins and are they are they

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Speaker 1: offering opinions as to how they might have compared to

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Speaker 1: these guys that you're seeing this week. Most people still

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Speaker 1: tell me that they think Haskins is the best quarterback

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Speaker 1: in the class. They believe that he's better than these guys.

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Speaker 1: Um he's he's a pure and Paul the funny thing

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Speaker 1: is that Haskins is really your type of quarterback. He's

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Speaker 1: a pure pokat path or you don't you move around well.

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Speaker 1: He's big, he's accurate, he's got a really good arm,

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Speaker 1: and he's just a better thrower of the football and

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Speaker 1: a more accurate thrower of the football at better velocity

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Speaker 1: than these guys are here. I think the opinions on

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Speaker 1: Murray you're all over the place. I think people are

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Speaker 1: answous to see what he measures at the combine in

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Speaker 1: terms of hand size, in terms of height, see how

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Speaker 1: he looks um with those measurements. I think some people

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Speaker 1: think you might be as shortest five nine, which you

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Speaker 1: could be a real problem um. But but they love

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Speaker 1: his playmaking. They know he has an NFL caliber arm

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Speaker 1: lance and I talked to Sama Monster profit full focused

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Speaker 1: last week. He said he is almost Baker Mayfield esque

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Speaker 1: in their grading. That's how well he graded out for

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Speaker 1: them this year. So I'm not sure as an overall

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Speaker 1: group they look at him. I don't think he for

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Speaker 1: most people is looked upon as a top ten, top

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Speaker 1: fifteen pick. Remember, all you need is one team to

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Speaker 1: be willing to say. I'm not worried about the dimensions.

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Speaker 1: I'm not worried about the size. I think this guy

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Speaker 1: can be a star, and then all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: he's the top five pick if one team believes he is,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean without question. Heck, until the

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Speaker 1: last twenty four hours before the draft last year, when

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden the rumors came out of Cleveland

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Speaker 1: that they were looking at Mayfield. I don't think anybody

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Speaker 1: in their right mind would a Baker Mayfield number one. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's only so much patting on the back I can

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Speaker 1: do in one program, so we'll save that for a

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Speaker 1: later time. But just we we just remember that the

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Speaker 1: short people community does stick together. Hey, you know, we

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Speaker 1: gotta do what we can to support one another. But hey,

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Speaker 1: guys will remember the funny thing though, Bakers, you know

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Speaker 1: he's not five nine. That's a that is true, that's

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Speaker 1: a fair point. There's a disparity. And even John and

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Speaker 1: I talked about this because we were looking at a

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Speaker 1: photo from the Heisman Trophy presentation, Paul, where you had

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Speaker 1: Haskins next to Murray, and it didn't look like Baker Mayfield,

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Speaker 1: if he was in that picture, would be so much

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Speaker 1: shorter than even has He's more bloody ask if nothing else, Well,

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Speaker 1: it depends on obviously the eye of the beholder in

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Speaker 1: the interpretation. But a follow up, John, with respect to

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Speaker 1: the quarterback conversation, and you know this was a question

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Speaker 1: that we've thrown on our previous shows. I know you

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Speaker 1: throughout Baker Mayfield and Josh Allen. I'm just curious, from

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Speaker 1: anybody that you have talked to, is Haskins even below

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Speaker 1: just about the entire quarterback class from last year, or

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Speaker 1: they figure that he's even better then maybe the Josh

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Speaker 1: Rosen's in the Lamar Jackson's in the world. I haven't.

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Speaker 1: I haven't talked to that many people about that comparison.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a really good question. My feel is

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Speaker 1: that he's probably below well. I I know some people

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Speaker 1: looked at those guys differently last year, so it's hard

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Speaker 1: to really rank him as a consensus, but I think

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Speaker 1: they believe he is a tier below whoever they had

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Speaker 1: on their top tier last year. So I'm sure some

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Speaker 1: teams had Rosen is the number one guy, some teams

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Speaker 1: that may Field, some teams that Donald, maybe even some

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Speaker 1: teams that Allen. So I believe for the whatever teams

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Speaker 1: believed were their top group of quarterbacks last year. He

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Speaker 1: is a tier below those guys, so he's not quite

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Speaker 1: at that level, is my feel for where teams have

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Speaker 1: him currently. All right, well, that is the latest from Mobile,

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Speaker 1: Alabama at the Senior ball John Safe travels back and

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Speaker 1: Paul said he will be meeting you at the airport

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Speaker 1: awaiting that sample from the field. We came up getting

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Speaker 1: quickly to the end. Yes, I appreciate you guys, and

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Speaker 1: I will be on b d K tomorrow and Mr

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Speaker 1: Fagles and hopefully i'll hopefully I'll have some good news

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Speaker 1: and words and information of what happened to practice. Thanks John,

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Speaker 1: have a good trip, Thanks John. We appreciate got johnsh

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Speaker 1: Melk at the Senior boat Mobile Alabama. So hopefully activities

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Speaker 1: will resume according to plan today with a normal practice

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Speaker 1: considering the sun is out, so they're at least able

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Speaker 1: to salvage this final day of practice because they're not

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Speaker 1: going to get a formal practice in the day before

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Speaker 1: the game and after Wednesday they had to move indoors

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Speaker 1: at the local college. You know, important thing to note

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Speaker 1: about Haskins and your question that John was certainly relevant

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Speaker 1: about where he would have fitted into last year's class,

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Speaker 1: and that fits in a kind of back doorway to

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Speaker 1: everything I've heard about him, is that he should be

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Speaker 1: fifteen or so, you know, somewhere in the mid teens.

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Speaker 1: That's where his true value is. And if you put

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Speaker 1: together that idea with what John just told us, that

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Speaker 1: people figured he was the second tier of QBS, you know,

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Speaker 1: not one of those guys who was gonna go top

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Speaker 1: five to ten. You know, we knew who the top

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Speaker 1: guys were gonna be, one way or the other, regardless

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Speaker 1: of who you preferred. Probably you knew three quarterbacks were

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Speaker 1: gonna go in the first six picks. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: kind of knew that. Then there was gonna be that

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Speaker 1: drop off where somewhere between ten and twenty there was

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Speaker 1: gonna be another one or two, and then there was

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Speaker 1: gonna be a guy at the bottom of the first round.

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Speaker 1: And that's exactly how it fell now at Mayfield, Donald

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Speaker 1: Rose in and then you wonder, Josh, somebody be aggressive

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Speaker 1: with Alan though that was the question given, so the

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Speaker 1: range of where the clusters were gonna fall kind of

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Speaker 1: makes sense. And if you fit those two ideas together,

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Speaker 1: what you get is that Haskin's true value is somewhere,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the twelve to sixteen twenty ranger. Maybe

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Speaker 1: not twenty, but maybe twelve to fifteen sixteen. He's certainly

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Speaker 1: not a top five, top ten overall value by any

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Speaker 1: stretch of the imagination from those who do this for

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Speaker 1: a living. That's that's just the facts. Now, If he

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Speaker 1: goes somewhere in the top ten, it's because somebody forced

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Speaker 1: the issue, which, as we also know, does tend to happen,

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Speaker 1: and af a lot he's going to say happens more

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Speaker 1: often than not, it does. So reprised his grade does

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Speaker 1: not seem to be there. The more and more we

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Speaker 1: hear from football people, and John's down there talking to

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Speaker 1: a bunch of them, If they're saying he would have

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Speaker 1: been in the second tier of the first round quarterbacks,

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Speaker 1: that tells you he is not a top five, top

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Speaker 1: six pick. He's just not well. And here's the other

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Speaker 1: In reality, a lot also depends on regarding your point

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Speaker 1: about the urgency of a team trying to move up

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Speaker 1: to grab him. How free agency plays out. Where does

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Speaker 1: Nick Foles end up if he parts ways with the Eagles?

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Speaker 1: Where does Teddy Bridgewater end up if he decides not

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Speaker 1: to back up Drew Brees. If two teams grab those

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Speaker 1: two quarterbacks, Paul, who's to say that now the urgency

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Speaker 1: is there for them to grab a quarterback in the draft.

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Speaker 1: For example, Denver Denver went after Case Kingdom. Yes, in Minnesota.

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Speaker 1: You know what we're moving on, Tod Denver draft a quarterback.

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Speaker 1: Did Denver aggressively move up? You could have argued John

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Speaker 1: Elway may have had a reason. After things didn't work

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Speaker 1: out with Paxton Lynch, they stuck it out with Case

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Speaker 1: k You know what, I would love to know, and

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Speaker 1: we will never find this out. And it's a shame

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Speaker 1: because it would be a fascinating exercise and you probably

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Speaker 1: would agree with me on this. You wouldn't get as

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Speaker 1: excited as I would, but it would be It would

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Speaker 1: still be fascinating. Nonetheless, I would love to be able

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Speaker 1: to go back. So let's just say the last five

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Speaker 1: drafts and give truth serum to every single team and

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Speaker 1: go through their first round picks and ask them, Okay,

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Speaker 1: was that guy equivalent to the value on your board

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Speaker 1: or did you reach to take him? I would love

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Speaker 1: to know how many teams reached to take certain guys

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Speaker 1: because they got so attracted to the position, or they

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Speaker 1: were so desperate to have a certain position. I would

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Speaker 1: love to know that. Well, it's a great conversation. I'm

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Speaker 1: with you, it is, and we'll never we'll never get

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Speaker 1: the answer. You usually get those answers from my experience,

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Speaker 1: after those individuals in the front office decide to retire,

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Speaker 1: because then they're willing to, I think, be a little

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Speaker 1: bit more candid with their answers. For example, if you

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Speaker 1: go back and you talk to people about the Eli

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Speaker 1: Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger rings right now, I think individuals

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Speaker 1: are a little bit more opened to explain who they

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Speaker 1: had higher than the other guy who was their first choice.

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Speaker 1: But you didn't really get those conversations, Paul, until some

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Speaker 1: of those executives were out of the game, and even

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Speaker 1: then you don't necessarily get it correct. So that's why

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Speaker 1: I agree with you. I think it's an excellent exercise.

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Speaker 1: As somebody who loves to always hear about the conversations

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Speaker 1: behind closed doors, it would interest me. I just thought

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Speaker 1: it would. I just don't think the individuals who you

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Speaker 1: need to hear from are going to be open because

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Speaker 1: they're still in charge of making the decisions for their

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Speaker 1: respective offices. I remember one of the very few times,

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Speaker 1: and I know this for a fact that has been

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Speaker 1: discussed many times over. I don't know how publicly it

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Speaker 1: has been discussed, but I I know from people who

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Speaker 1: I've done in the front of office here with the

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Speaker 1: Giants for many, many years, they reached badly to grab

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Speaker 1: Cedric Jones with the number five overall pick, the defensive

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Speaker 1: end who had actually had legally blind in one eye.

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Speaker 1: But they were so desperate for a defensive end and

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Speaker 1: a pass rusher, and they tried to trade out of

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Speaker 1: that number five spot in the worst way, and George

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Speaker 1: Young couldn't find any takers because everybody knew that draft

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Speaker 1: had four premier players at the top of the draft.

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Speaker 1: Those four guys were gone. Nobody wanted to move into

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Speaker 1: the fifth spot you're content with sticking out and and

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Speaker 1: George was so desperate for a defensive end he went

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Speaker 1: against his policy of best player available, and they decided, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know what, we badly need a pass rusher. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna reach, and they went and they reached for Edric Jones,

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Speaker 1: and he turned out to be a bust. It was

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Speaker 1: one of the very few times that George Young went

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Speaker 1: against his own policy and it cost the Giants miserably. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a little piece of information for you folks.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't know how many of you have

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Speaker 1: heard me say it in the past. I I've talked

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Speaker 1: about it in the past. This is not a breaking

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Speaker 1: news item. But there's a guy from many many years ago.

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Speaker 1: In fact, to be exact, I mean, that's how many

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Speaker 1: years ago it is. Uh, it's it's a long long

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Speaker 1: time ago. And you know, the truth of the matter is,

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Speaker 1: you know, Cedric Jones was a good guy, but he

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Speaker 1: wasn't worth the fifth overall pick in that draft period,

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Speaker 1: and they reached and they got burned. I would love,

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Speaker 1: like you said, I'd love to be able to go

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Speaker 1: through teams in the last five years and find out

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Speaker 1: how many reached. You right, though, the only chance we

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Speaker 1: ever have of finding out that information is after those

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Speaker 1: guys retired. Correct. Well, here's another and even then it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be hard to get. Here's another interesting exercise, and

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Speaker 1: you're probably also not gonna get the true answers until

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Speaker 1: those individuals are removed from their current positions. But if

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Speaker 1: you just played the game of picking a random year nineties, though,

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Speaker 1: is far back. Let's say you go back seven years

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Speaker 1: and you go back to the front office executives. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's redraft based on how the players panned out. Would

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Speaker 1: you still make the same selection that you did or

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Speaker 1: would you go after somebody differently that was still available

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Speaker 1: on the board that I think would be an interesting excers. Well,

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Speaker 1: I know if bum Phillips was sitting here today, he

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Speaker 1: would have taken Lawrence Taylor over George Rogers. Given the back.

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Speaker 1: I think he would. He was so desperate for George

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Speaker 1: Rogers because he wanted the bell cow running back he

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Speaker 1: had had d Campbell in Houston. He wanted George Rogers

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Speaker 1: to be the bell cow running back with the Saints.

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Speaker 1: All of his football people kept telling him, you gotta

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Speaker 1: take this guy, Lawrence Taylor. You gotta take this guy,

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Speaker 1: Lawrence Taylor, and bum Phillips refused to yield. He said,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna get my bell cow running back. I won't

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Speaker 1: get my guy, get him thirty. I was a game.

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Speaker 1: I will get my running back. And he got his

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Speaker 1: running back, and the Giants jumped for joy. They did. Indeed,

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Speaker 1: that was a nice gift that fell right into that lap.

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Speaker 1: It's nice that you actually acted out what happened in

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Speaker 1: the draft room too. I mean we got the I

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Speaker 1: have been told the Giants virtually had like this most

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Speaker 1: incredible pizza party. I would too. When bum Phillips decided

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Speaker 1: to take George Rogers, I am told the room just

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Speaker 1: erupted parcels. In particular in those days. You remember he

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Speaker 1: was part of the assistant staff. They were just ecstatic. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and that turned out to be a nice gift that

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Speaker 1: did fall right to the giants. Before we open up

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Speaker 1: the phone lines and chooser one on three hashtag giants

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Speaker 1: chat real briefly, just want to go over the two

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Speaker 1: giants that did make Gil Brand's NFL All Rookies Please.

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Speaker 1: Gil Brand did write an article on NFL dot com

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Speaker 1: and say Kwan Barkley made it not necessarily surprised, but

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Speaker 1: I just want to read what Gil wrote just to

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Speaker 1: get a different perspective of somebody that's not necessarily around

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Speaker 1: the team all the time. Barkley had a very good

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Speaker 1: year despite struggles by his old line, rushing for one thousand,

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Speaker 1: three d seven yards, eleven touchdowns five yards per carry.

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Speaker 1: Also caught ninety one passage, which helped him compile a

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Speaker 1: league high two thousand, twenty eight yards from scrimmage. The

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Speaker 1: thing that surprised me the most about him was his

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Speaker 1: willingness to protect the passer. I thought he did a

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Speaker 1: very good job with that. And his pre draft ranking

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Speaker 1: for gil Brandt was number one, so that's where gil

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Speaker 1: brand had him, and he had one of two running

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Speaker 1: back positions, Philip Lindsley. Lindsay was the other running back

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Speaker 1: that made the NFL Rookie team. So no surprise that

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Speaker 1: Barkley's on the team. But I think we talked about

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Speaker 1: this with any young rookie running back, what can they

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Speaker 1: do when the ball is not in their hands? And

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Speaker 1: I think Sae Kwon Barkley did step up with respect

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Speaker 1: to that in terms of getting his assignments in line

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Speaker 1: and knowing where he needs to be on plays that

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Speaker 1: he's not necessarily the first target. Here's the whole key

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Speaker 1: to that story, Lance, are you running back can be

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Speaker 1: a liability on the field if he doesn't catch the

431
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 1: ball well, if he doesn't do well in pass protection,

432
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 1: and of course if he doesn't remember the plays properly,

433
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 1: run the right routes, read the right holes, or for

434
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:13,480
Speaker 1: that matter, if he costs the ball up and he

435
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 1: winds up on the ground too much. There are a

436
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 1: lot of ways a rookie running back needs to grow

437
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 1: into or mature into the role. There are so many components.

438
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 1: Barkley was so good at every facet of the game.

439
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,679
Speaker 1: He was never a liability when he was on the field,

440
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 1: not in one way, shape or form. He was never

441
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,479
Speaker 1: a liability, which allowed the Giants to keep him on

442
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,880
Speaker 1: the field as much as he was and to give

443
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 1: him the ball as much as he got the ball.

444
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,920
Speaker 1: And that's what it comes down to, folks, because in

445
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 1: any position, but especially at the running back position, if

446
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 1: you are a liability in any of the facets of

447
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 1: the game, the coach is gonna be queasy about giving

448
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 1: you as many reps. It's just the facts. I'm not

449
00:21:58,080 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 1: gonna want to put you on the field on start

450
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 1: down as actually in passing downs. And I mean I

451
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 1: think of the postseason two running backs that are more

452
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,639
Speaker 1: established than Barkley. Ezekiel Elliott made a play where he

453
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 1: picked up a blitz when Dak Prescott was about to

454
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 1: throw bottom more time, and then Todd Gurley did something similar.

455
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 1: I don't remember if it was the Saints game or

456
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 1: the Cowboys game, so don't hold me to it where

457
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: he also picked up a guy that was unblocked and

458
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,360
Speaker 1: then Jared Goff was able to get a pass off.

459
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: So I mean, yes, it's important in any given time

460
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 1: in the regular season, Paul, but it's magnified even more

461
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: in the postseason that if you don't have a running

462
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 1: back that you can trust to pick up the blitz

463
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 1: or pick up somebody that the offensive line can't handle,

464
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: they're not going to keep you on the field. Without question.

465
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 1: It's such an important facet that to me, is overlooked

466
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 1: in the conversation by not necessarily the experts and the scouts,

467
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 1: but just people who consume the game on a daily basis,

468
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 1: And it's such an important facet. You know what I

469
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 1: wonder about Ezekiel Elliott though, I wonder if, in addition

470
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: to that invisible spoon that he always eats from all

471
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: the time, he has found his invisible NFC Championship game tickets,

472
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: because that's about the only way he was going to

473
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: get to go. It just you had to get that in.

474
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying this is not Jerry Jones, just

475
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:17,199
Speaker 1: provide well, I was basically I was filling in the

476
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 1: gap in case nobody got that reference, but clearly Paul

477
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 1: was reminiscing back to two thousand seven where Jerry Jones

478
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: laid out the tickets when the Cowboys played the Giants

479
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 1: in the Division Round. I wonder if any of his

480
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 1: players actually went to the game and use them, because

481
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 1: that's the only way they were getting in. That would

482
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: be a good question to ask Dallas Cowboys dot com

483
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: how about that? And we could hear back and report

484
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 1: back to Giants fans and are chomping at the bit

485
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: to find out the answer. Okay, So, in a digit

486
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: to se Kue Barkley interior lineman, one of the spots

487
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: went to b. J. Hill. Gil Brandt wrote the following,

488
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: Hills very strong at the point of attack as good

489
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 1: pass rushing ability, as evidenced by his five and a

490
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: half sacks in sixteen games twelve starts. He ranked second

491
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: to the NFL among rookie defensive linemen with forty eight tackles,

492
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: behind only Dern Paine of the Redskins, who had fifty six,

493
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: and the pre draft ranking for gil brand for B. J.

494
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: Hill was number ninety four, so Hill was in his

495
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: top one hundred and Hill and Barkley are the two

496
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: representatives from the Giants to make the NFL All Rookie team.

497
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: According to Gil Brandon, this is a true twenty two

498
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 1: roster team where he has eleven guys on offense, eleven

499
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 1: guys on defense, and case you're curious, and then he's

500
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: got the kicker of the parliament. Here's the interesting thing

501
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: for me, and I'm not joking around with you, now,

502
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: a lance everybody who plays a standard position, besides the

503
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: special teams guys are first and second round picks. With

504
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: the exception of b J. Hill, who's the number three,

505
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 1: and the center Mason Cole from the Arizona Cardinals, who

506
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: was also a number three, all the other position players

507
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: that he took, basically twenty of the twenty two were

508
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 1: first or second round picks, So at least at the moment, again,

509
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 1: these are only the best of the best. This draft

510
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: pretty much went to chalk. The guy who were drafted

511
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: high were the guys who came through. Well, I'm just

512
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: perusing through the list, and we talked about a lot

513
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: of these players on the program in previous episodes, and

514
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: I've said I think all of these are candidates for

515
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 1: steals of the draft, Darius Leonard of the Colts, who

516
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 1: was a high second round so he certainly can be

517
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: defined as one steel Derwin James Safety of the Chargers

518
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 1: late first round pick, that's another one. And then laid

519
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 1: in Vander esh also mid round pick for the Dallas Cowboys.

520
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: All three of those guys I think are strong candidates

521
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: for steals of the draft for where they went and

522
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: what they produced in year one. Now, the story is

523
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: far from over. Nobody should be crowning any of these picks.

524
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 1: It takes more than a season to go down as

525
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: great value. But early returns all three of them turned

526
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: out to be very strong picks. And you're right, I mean,

527
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: I'm perusing through the list. I think that's a great

528
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 1: observation on your part. We're looking at pretty much the

529
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: majority all first rounders. Then, when it comes to the

530
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 1: offensive line as well, in case you wondered, the a

531
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: giant who certainly would have drawn consideration was Will Hernandez,

532
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: the rookie left guard who was taken in the second round. Well,

533
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: gil Brand decided he was going to go with the

534
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: two first round guards for his All NFL Rookie team.

535
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: He took Quinton Nelson obviously the number six pick overall

536
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: from the Colts. Without question, he deserved it, and he

537
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 1: went with Frank right Now with the Detroit Lions, who

538
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: was a first round pick, number twenty overall. Now he

539
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: came out as a center who then wound up playing

540
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: guard for the Lions. So in any event, he had

541
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: two first rounders playing guard on his All NFL Rookie team.

542
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: Hernandez was a second round pick. That is by no

543
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: means to smirche him, because I think all of us

544
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: understand that Hernandez. I think he might have made the

545
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 1: Pro Football Writers Association Rookie team if I'm not mistaken.

546
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,239
Speaker 1: He certainly got the accolades that he deserved from one

547
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: organization or another. Well, and Brandon Smith made the team.

548
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 1: He was in the first round. He was another high

549
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: second round pick for the Colts. And he's also a

550
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: guy that's been moved between guard and tackles. So you

551
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: know it. Listen if you ask Gil Brand. I don't know.

552
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: He didn't get an entire breakdown of it, didn't have

553
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 1: a second team, but but perhaps one of the things

554
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: he looked at was versatility on the offensive line, and

555
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: not that will Hernandez is not a versatil player, but

556
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: her Nandez. He no, no, no no, But what I'm saying

557
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: is Gil when he was maybe determining between two guys

558
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: that were relatively close, he looked at a guy that

559
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: was maybe moved around a little bit or could play

560
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: multiple positions. He said, I'm gonna get that player at

561
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: the edge. Once again, that's just me reading between the lines.

562
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: I don't know unless we had guilt here, president or

563
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: he wrote a breakdown, but I just wanted to give

564
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: you some information for somebody else. Yeah, and I thought

565
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 1: it was interesting. His takeaways from this rookie class. Alright,

566
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: let's open up the phone lines two zero one four

567
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: or five one three or reminder. Big Blue Kickoff Live

568
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 1: presented by Corps Light, download the Coors Light Rewards app

569
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: to win Amazing Giants prizes. Steve is in New York

570
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: and Steve gets us going on Thursday's edition a Big

571
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: Blue Kickoff Live. Welcome to the program, Steve, What do

572
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: you have for us? Hi? Thanks Paul? Thanks? How you

573
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: guys doing do it very well? Great? How are you good? Thanks? Um?

574
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: It's hard to flower all that and and not hopefully

575
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: I could live up to the expectations of the program

576
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: today because you guys have to do information. So I'm

577
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: gonna there are three names out to you guys, and

578
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: we're going to use them as the baseline for the conversation.

579
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw out Chase Backburn, Richie Sobert, and Dion Grant. Okay,

580
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: those are guys that we all could probably agree contributed

581
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 1: to the teams that they were on immensely, and their

582
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: contracts didn't really we weren't really representatives of what they

583
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: actually gave to us. And what got me thinking about

584
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: those guys is I've been hearing a lot lately about

585
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: Olivier Vernon's contract and how it's Khalil Mack size, and

586
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: you know, he's not that type of a player. You're

587
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: not getting that type of production, so he's getting overpaid.

588
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: And I just don't understand why teams. You hear the

589
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: excuse all the time, well, that was the only person

590
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: out there and we had to pay for him, and

591
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: that's the market. I get that, But you can hire

592
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: guys that could Chase Blackburn, a Deon Grant, and you

593
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: know Richard Solber, guy kind of a guy who's gonna

594
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: really almost put in more effort than or not effort,

595
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: but like more productivity on the field than Olivier has

596
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: earned his contract, and it's not gonna even cost you

597
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,719
Speaker 1: Miller's year as much. So I just don't know why teams,

598
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: when they're faced with the supply and demand scenario, why

599
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: don't they just say, Okay, well, I'm not paying all

600
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: that money. I'm gonna get a guy like a Richie

601
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: soiber or a Deon Grant, and they're gonna fill the

602
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: need until I do find somebody who's worked that value. Well,

603
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: I think the first thing you have to do is

604
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: separate Dion Grant from the conversation because he was the

605
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: highest paid safety in the league when he originally signed

606
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: with Seattle earlier in his career. This guy was a

607
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: many times over proven, bona fide top level safety. By

608
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: the time the Giants got him, he was on the downside,

609
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: but clearly very valuable, especially for the amount of money

610
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: that they paid him, and he was critical to that

611
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: Super Bowl championship team, There's no question about that. But

612
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: separate him from Richie Seibert and Chase Blackburn, who undrafted

613
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: rookie free agents and came out of college without the

614
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: Hollywood type resume that that you know. Obviously, Dion Grant

615
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: had already put up in the NFL by the time

616
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: the Giants got him, so I don't think you should

617
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: put him in that category. It's a totally different category

618
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: as far as what you said, go ahead. Sorry for

619
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: the reason I could throw him in there is because

620
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: by the time we did get him, even though he

621
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: had all those accolades, what he paid for him and

622
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: what he produced, and that was my point, contract versus

623
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: production at that point in his career, he still produced

624
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: over what you paid him. In my mind. Well, the

625
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: Giants had a guy, remember kevic Co Mitchell, same thing

626
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: in the two thousand seven championship season. Covida Mitchell came

627
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: to the Giants after being cut by the Chiefs. He

628
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: came on a one year veteran minimum contract and he

629
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: was very critical to that Super Bowl championship. I mean,

630
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: the Giants were really good about finding those kinds of guys.

631
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: I mean, go back even to the ninety team when

632
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: you add guys who were rejected by other teams on

633
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: the end of their careers, Dave Dorson, Steve Diaci, Lawrence McGrew,

634
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: the former Patriots linebacker who played special teams for the Giants,

635
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,239
Speaker 1: Everson Walls, who became a Giant starter. I mean, the

636
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: Giants have always been good about finding those plugin players,

637
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: you know, who give them great value on the back end.

638
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: So I think what I'm trying to tell you is that,

639
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: to me still is a different category than the undrafted

640
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: rookie free agent who you're finding a diamond in the rouff.

641
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: You're looking at a piece of coal when you're saying, well,

642
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: we think we can make him into something, I think

643
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: that's a lot different than saying this is an old

644
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: fellow who we hope has some juice left in his

645
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: tank or gas left in his tank, and he's gonna

646
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: be able to give us something. I think that's a

647
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: totally different dynamic. Yeah, Deon Grant was with the Giant.

648
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: It's a two thousand and ten, two thousand O levity.

649
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: He signed a pair of one year contracts. He already

650
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: played a decade in the NFL. So his value, You're right,

651
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: in terms of his contributions Steve to the Giants proved

652
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: to be extremely valuable, but at that point, the way

653
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: the league viewed him, he was more of a complimentary

654
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: veteran guy that you looked around at your roster. Blackburn

655
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: came to the Giants at the opposite end of the

656
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: spectrum from Deon Grant early in his career. But Blackburn

657
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: was known as a complementary special teams type of player

658
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: who wasn't gonna command the type of big money like

659
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: in Olivier Vernon and Khalil McKim concerned, and you're far

660
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: more likely to get Aaron Donald type of numbers out

661
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: of a guy you invest with Aaron Donald type of money,

662
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: to Paul's point, than perhaps taking a flyer on a

663
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: Deon Grant and a Chase Blackburn. But I want to

664
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: go to your point about Olivier Vernon. Now Olivier Vernon

665
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,959
Speaker 1: first season, the Giants to me got great return out

666
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: of Olivier Vernon. Steve played all sixteen games, eight and

667
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: a half sacks. You can't poo poo on year one.

668
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: Year two he missed four games plagued by injuries. Giants

669
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: had rough go. A lot of guys got hurt. Okay,

670
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: so it wasn't in comparison to the first year. Now

671
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: this past season injury struck him again. But I would

672
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: argue if you go back, and you look at the

673
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,479
Speaker 1: final six games that Olivier Vernon had with the Giants

674
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: this season, so that's a little over a half. Because

675
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: he played only eleven games. He was one of those

676
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: productive defensive linemen in the NFL. Pro Football Focus has

677
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: backed me up on that with respect his numbers, and

678
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: the eye test has backed that up because he was

679
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: one of the most productive Giants, meaning it took him

680
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: time to get back to full health, and when healthy,

681
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: he did produce. So I would say, yes, did you

682
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: get what you wanted for all three seasons so far?

683
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: How to Vernon? No, but when healthy, I think the

684
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: guy's lived up to his contract. I'm not saying his

685
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: him living up to his contract is issue because I

686
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: actually defend him a lot and say that this year.

687
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: Even his hurries, you know, they don't get put on

688
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: the stat sheet, but the hurries he puts. The pressure

689
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: he's on the quarterback all the time, he's constantly in

690
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: the backfield distructive stuff. I'm not you know, his his

691
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: run game is falling off a little bit, but he's

692
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: still he's still good as a pressure all. What I'm

693
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: saying is you can find a guy that maybe is

694
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: a lower tier than him, that can give you almost

695
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: the sail amount of output through way less money than

696
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: Khalil Mack type stuff. If I'm gonna pay that type

697
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: of money, I want Kalil mac type numbers. I don't want. Well,

698
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: he did kind of give me somewhat of a return

699
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: of my money. No, he'd better give me a return.

700
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: That's why I don't understand. And that. Well, here, here's

701
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: here's the thing. If you could do that, then there's

702
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: an NFL owner who would love to hire you as

703
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 1: a GM right now, because that's the whole key to

704
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: work in the salary cap. If you can find guys

705
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: who can outplay their contract and allow you extra room

706
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: under the cap, you're gonna be in great shape for

707
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 1: a year or two until they hold out and demand

708
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: a race. Well, and here's the other thing. I get

709
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: your point. And in an ideal world, you'd love to

710
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: see that, But I think it's proven very difficult for

711
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 1: the Giants to even find those guys who are getting

712
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: nowhere near the type of money Olivier Vernon and getting

713
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: that type of production. I mean, look at some of

714
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: the other complimentary defensive linemen on the team. Why do

715
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: you think the Giants have been at the bottom of

716
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: the barrel in sacks over the last few season. It's

717
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: clearly paying a guy a one year deal for X

718
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 1: amount of dollars you're not getting. You're not getting Aaron

719
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: Donald and Khalil mac production Kerry Win. Is Kerry Win

720
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: giving you that? Is Josh Morrow giving you that? So

721
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: I mean you gotta look at around the league who's

722
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: giving you that. It's hard. It's hard from past with

723
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: a drop off from Olivia Vernon to carry Win in

724
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: my mind, really isn't all that much. I mean, we

725
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: disagree with that. I would disagree. I think you're looking

726
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: at the numbers too much, specifically from this season. I

727
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: mean Kerry Win. I mean even from a statistical standpoint,

728
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: Kerry Win at one and a half shacks this past season,

729
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 1: that was it. See. To me, it's so hard because

730
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 1: pass rushers are so valuable in this game, and there's

731
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: such a drop off when you've come up from the

732
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: elite guys to them the second tier guys, and then

733
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: it's kind of like the rest of the guys. To me,

734
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 1: the last second tier pass rusher the Giants had was

735
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 1: Robert Ayres. To me, he was a second tier pass rusher.

736
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: He had nine sacks. I think that year he was here,

737
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: I mean, he was a second tier pass rusher, and

738
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: I can't break out year for him. It was you know,

739
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: it was it was, it was. You could argue that

740
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: might have been his best year as a pro um.

741
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: But those guys are hard to find. And and here's

742
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: the thing too, if if you're happy to get one

743
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: of those guys, well, the thing is you want to

744
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: be able to pair him with the top tier guy.

745
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: For example, when when the Giants had Tuck and O

746
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: C and Michael Strahan, they had three guys who had

747
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: different points of their career played the alpha and the

748
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: one A, and the bet depended upon the year that

749
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: you're talking about. I mean, Tuck eventually became the alpha

750
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: at one point in his career, but early on he

751
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: was not. He was the bat. You had Michael, you

752
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: had o C, and then you had talk and then

753
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, Okay, now Michael retires, Now o

754
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: Sis the league guy, and Tuck is the number two guy. Okay,

755
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: now Osci retires, Now Tucks the number one guy. Jpps

756
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 1: the number two guy. And you know, so you kind

757
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: of need a Batman and Robin pass rushing duo really

758
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: to be the kind of dynamic pass rushing team that

759
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: you'd like to be. And the problem is, I think,

760
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 1: to be honest and I have I like Olivier Vernon

761
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: as a person and I like him as a player.

762
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: I don't know that he's a Batman. I think he

763
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: might be more of a Robin than he is a Batman. Well,

764
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: I think that's a fair point, and Steve will let

765
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: you go on that note. Appreciate the phone, Thank you

766
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: so much for weighing in. But has he had that

767
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: other complimentary guy consistently with him even since he joined

768
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: the Giants? Well, he when JPP was Batman and he

769
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: was robbing, they worked very well together and the Giants

770
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: went to the playoffs. They did. But the thing is,

771
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 1: sometimes you know JPP was fully healthy, Vernon wasn't fully healthy.

772
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: It's true, the healthy JPP wasn't for the other. So

773
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 1: I guess, did you even get outside of two thousand sixteen,

774
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: another two full seasons where he could assume that role

775
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: of Robin and there was Batman here? I would say, no,

776
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: I don't think that's what I'm trying to say. I

777
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: don't think it was enough of a Batman presence to

778
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,879
Speaker 1: say we have a sample size to g I'd love

779
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 1: to see Olivier Vernon play Robin to a Batman. I'd

780
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: love to, for example, if he were here when Strahan

781
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 1: was on the other side, or if he were here

782
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: when o C was on the other side. He had

783
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: JPP for that one season where JPP was heard a lot, okay,

784
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: And that's the thing. I think Vernon is at his

785
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: best when he's part of a duo as opposed to

786
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: just being supposedly the one guy. You know, I'm looking

787
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: through the numbers of where Vernon ranked just in terms

788
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 1: of sacks to see, you know Steve's point about, well,

789
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: could you brought in another guy that would have given

790
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: you that type of production. Vernon was in the conversation

791
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: with Terrell Suggs, he was in the conversation shin with

792
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 1: Melvin Ingram of the Chargers. He was in the conversation

793
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: of Jaral Casey of the Titans. I would consider all

794
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: of those guys premier pass rushers, maybe Sugs not necessarily

795
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: where he was earlier in his career. Ingram and Casey

796
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: two of the best pass rushers in the NFL, and

797
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: his sack numbers were equivalent to them tackles Casey and

798
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: more productivity in terms of the tackle front, you can argue,

799
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: but the other two guys didn't necessarily jump off the

800
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: page with respect to that. And let's take it a

801
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: step further, Paul. If you go the top ten players

802
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: in sacks in the NFL this season, okay, Aaron Donald, J. J. Watt,

803
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: Chris Jones of the Chiefs, Okay, I wouldn't put him

804
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: at the same level. It was a breakout year for

805
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: Chris Jones, Daniel Hunter or the Vikings, Von Miller, Miles

806
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: Garrett of the Browns. Okay, he's not making mega money

807
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: yet because he's still on a rookie deal, but a

808
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: prime prospect. Frank Clark of the Seahawks, who's now their

809
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: premier edge Rusher d four to the Chiefs, Chandler Jones

810
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: of the Cardinals formerly the Patriots, Ryan Kerrigan of the Redskins,

811
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: T J. Watt, J. J. Watt's brother the Steelers. That's

812
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: your top ten. Do you look at any of those

813
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: guys I just named you is mid tier, bargain type

814
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 1: of players and don't give me, well, this guy's on

815
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 1: a rookie contract. I'm talking about guys that are not

816
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: a rookie contract, guys who guys who are on second

817
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: year contracts who are premier pass rushers are getting paid well.

818
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: But that's what Vernon is. So that that that, but

819
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: that That's what I'm trying to build the parallel too.

820
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: But my point is, are there if there were about

821
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: fifteen to twenty guys in the NFL right now that

822
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 1: we're giving you Vernon's production and better and we're making

823
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: half of his money, then I would say, you know what,

824
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,839
Speaker 1: it's relatively easy to find that type of player. But

825
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: the point is it's difficult to find that type of player.

826
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: The last time the Giants had a guy like that

827
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: was Chad brad Ski, Okay, who wound up. You know,

828
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 1: he was on on the teams that you know they

829
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: had straight hand and and Chad, all of a sudden,

830
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 1: it was like, wow, you know what, this guy is

831
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: getting paid relatively little money for m all of a

832
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 1: sudden pretty good pass rush production. And of course what happened.

833
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 1: Chadbrawski came up for a new contract and he got

834
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: a big fat brinkstruck backed up to his front door

835
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: by the Colts and he went. Because that's what usually happens.

836
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: If you think you're gonna have the luxury of having

837
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: an underpaid premier pass rusher for more than a year

838
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: or two, trust me, as soon as free agency hits,

839
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: he's not gonna be up to paid anymore. Well look

840
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 1: at and the perfect example will be looking at Chris

841
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: Jones to the Chiefs once he can hit free agency,

842
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,399
Speaker 1: if his numbers continued to increase, because like I said,

843
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: this year was his coming out party. And even you

844
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: know a guy like D four to who actually is

845
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 1: going to be a free agent, you'll see when productivity increases,

846
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 1: the money usually is synonymous with that. Two zero one

847
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 1: three is the telephone number. As we move along here

848
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: on Big Blue Kickoff Live, let's go to Mark in Chicago. Mark,

849
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: welcome to the program. What do you have for us? Hey,

850
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 1: I gotta put a snow on the ground, and it's

851
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: about eleven degrees out, so I'm not doing so well out.

852
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: We're a little bit warmer, but we're getting about the

853
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 1: same exact totals in rain, so we can somewhat relate

854
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: to what you're going through. But anyway, go ahead, go ahead, anyway,

855
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: This isn't why I call it, but just to follow

856
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: up on your prior discussion, the one thing that UH

857
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 1: Talk and straighthand and OC had in UH common that

858
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 1: they're all drafted by the Giants. So the Giants took

859
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 1: the initiative to emphasize the defensive line and back till

860
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: the line every year. And you know what happened was

861
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: I think in my opinion, you know j R. Jerry Reeves,

862
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: because of his drafting history, he was sort of forced

863
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 1: to go out and overpay for Burnon Burnons, a second

864
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: tier rusher, And to be honest with you, what I

865
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: would rather do is take the money, cut him and

866
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 1: take the money that you're not going to pay him

867
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: and apply it to the offensive line and then draft

868
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: quality defensives like these guys in the draft that is

869
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: heavy on defense. I just burning to me. I just

870
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: I'm not a big fan, never been a fan, and

871
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: I just would like to get rid of them. So well,

872
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: once again, if they feel there's depth in the draft

873
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: and they're going to be in position to do that,

874
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: I think that's a smart game plan. But the problem is,

875
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: you know, if you're gonna make a decision on Vernon

876
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 1: you're likely going to do that before the draft, and

877
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,959
Speaker 1: that means you're gonna sacrifice a guy without knowing who

878
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,760
Speaker 1: his replacement is. And there's no guarantee those defensive lineman

879
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: and edge rushers are gonna fall to you, So it's

880
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,399
Speaker 1: still a risky maneuver. I get what you're saying. And yes,

881
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 1: the Giants built their previous teams through the draft and

882
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 1: emphasize the defensive line, and we're able to develop those guys,

883
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 1: but unless you know you're getting them to me, it's

884
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 1: still risky to let a proven commodity go. Yeah, and

885
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 1: I get it, but you know what your tape is

886
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: what it says, and is that worth nineteen million a year?

887
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: I don't think so, But we can move on from that.

888
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 1: But anyway, Uh, the reason why I call it, I

889
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 1: wanted to follow up on the discussion that you guys

890
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: had yesterday about the greatest of all time, and there

891
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: was an interesting article this morning on NFL dot com

892
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: by Greg Rosenthal. I don't know if you've seen it.

893
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: Didn't that article he ranks all six quarterbacks that have

894
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: played in the Super Bowl based on their career achievements,

895
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: and obviously Tom Brady was number one and Johnny Uniteds

896
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: was number two. Paul Well, I don't. I don't have

897
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: a problem with that. Peyton Manning and Dan Marino real

898
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: interesting article that that coincides with how I feel. I

899
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 1: think Brady has taken the mantle away from United and

900
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,359
Speaker 1: I think those one and two selections are right on.

901
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 1: My dad is three Payton Mannings for Marino's five at

902
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: Brett Farves six. According to this. I don't see a

903
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 1: write up though for Uniteds and Montana in terms of

904
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: his explanation, unless it's below that where he explains they

905
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: really don't when you really don't go into much detail.

906
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: He just puts it into tears. But here's a guy

907
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: that it was number twelve, and Paul, you and I

908
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: have talked about this in the past. You probably don't

909
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: recall it, but I always thought that Bart Starr got

910
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: um short change when it came down the greatest of

911
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 1: all time. To me, Bart's star was the second guy

912
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: in line after United's and he had five NFL championships,

913
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: and he played in an era where you know, they

914
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 1: played on the Crumby fields and you had to win

915
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: your conference and then later on you had to win

916
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,479
Speaker 1: your division. In order to make the playoffs, you didn't

917
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 1: get in on a wild card. You actually had to

918
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: perform during the entirety of the year. And I just

919
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 1: felt with his performance he was always short changed. And

920
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: you and I got into a discussion, which again you

921
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: probably don't remember, as you thought that Troy Aikman belonged

922
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: above him. In this particular article, they rank Caitman Aikman

923
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,720
Speaker 1: at number fifteen. Yeah, well, I mean different eras certainly

924
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: bring different factors. I mean, but if you want to

925
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 1: talk about the era that star are played in, I

926
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 1: mean I could I could argue Y A. Tittle was

927
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: the more dynamic quarterback who probably had more talent. But

928
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: Starr had Jim Taylor, and he had Paul Horning, and

929
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 1: he had a phenomenal offensive line in front of him.

930
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: And why A Tittle was just chucking the rock like

931
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 1: Dan Fouts before Dan Fouts was even born, you know.

932
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: I mean when you talk about the pure passers at

933
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: the quarterback position from the yesteryear day, and again, I

934
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,720
Speaker 1: think modern football started in fifty six when the Giants

935
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: beat the Bears, if you want to go fifty eight,

936
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: when they lost to the Colts in the Greatest game

937
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: ever played. I'm fine with that. To me, that's where

938
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,760
Speaker 1: there's a line of delineation where modern day football compared

939
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: to the olden days. Um so I kind of I

940
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 1: always talked from that perspective. I don't go back beyond that.

941
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: Otto Graham, Sammy Ball, forget it. I'm not talking about

942
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: those guys. But but you know, what Tittle was to

943
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: me was much more of a dynamic quarterback than bart

944
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: Starr could ever dream about being. BArch Starr was a phenomenal,

945
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: cerebral quarterback and a game man year, but again, look

946
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: at the pieces he had. Bart Star was more along

947
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 1: the lines I hate to say this, I hate to

948
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: say this, but again, more of a game manager. Look

949
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 1: at what he had Vince Lombardi with a phenomenal old line,

950
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,839
Speaker 1: with a phenomenal running game. Lombardi would say, we're gonna

951
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: run the same three plays all day. Let them try

952
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:22,399
Speaker 1: to stop as it doesn't matter. I mean, Star had

953
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: it relatively easy. You know, y A goes into those

954
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,720
Speaker 1: two championship games of the three and six two sixty three,

955
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 1: He's playing in the coldest conditions, with the worst wind,

956
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: with a lack of a running game, and you know,

957
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: it hurt him because because the Giants offense in those

958
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 1: days was heavily skewed toward the pass. And that's because

959
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: Tittle was so great at it. So, no, I can't

960
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:48,800
Speaker 1: put bart star as high as you do. I'm sorry,

961
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 1: I just can't do it. Well, this is in this

962
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: in this article, was you know, super Bowl quarterback? So

963
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: so Tittle doesn't qualify, right, I understand and everything that

964
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: you're saying. The even's interesting that they actually had Joe

965
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: Namath at number seventeen and it wasn't for you know,

966
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 1: January what was a six nine. I think he'd be

967
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 1: down in the fifties because I think he was a

968
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: mediocre quarterback. He got in the Hall of Fame and

969
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 1: got all the accolades of what he had because of

970
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 1: one game. I mean he barely completed of his passes

971
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,439
Speaker 1: and he threw fifty more inceptions and he did touch

972
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: that well. I think that's where you have to qualify

973
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: the list. Does the list list quarter super Bowl quarterbacks

974
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 1: in terms of their Super Bowl performance or does it

975
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 1: list guys who happened to be in a Super Bowl

976
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: and how does their overall career? Right, bas that's a

977
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 1: different list. It looks like he's looking at the entire resume,

978
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,320
Speaker 1: not necessarily their super Bowl performance. He's taking the conservation

979
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: because I'm looking. The reason why he's giving United is

980
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: the edge. He goes, well, he collected three m v

981
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 1: p s five. First, he's looking at the whole. He's

982
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 1: looking at the whole resume. Yeah, so that's why I

983
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: want to see is rational? Okay, So if he's looking

984
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: at the whole resume, Eli Manning at twenty nine is

985
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: ridiculously low, and Phil Simms at five is ridiculously low

986
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,720
Speaker 1: in my opinion, and and quite frankly, this is another

987
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,760
Speaker 1: reason why I hate rankings to begin with. Anyway, exactly anyway,

988
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: thanks for the calls. Appreciate the phone call. Mark, thanks

989
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: so much for weighing in. You're never going to get

990
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 1: a list that everybody's happy and path, you know, I

991
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: mean to lose it over what some random person it does.

992
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:32,839
Speaker 1: It's just not worth it. Let's go back to the lines.

993
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 1: Jose's in Orlando, Jose, welcome to program. What do you

994
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 1: got for us? Hey, guys, I can't believe us two

995
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 1: days in a row. Listen, I just I don't know

996
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 1: if you remember the conversation that we had yesterday, and

997
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: just to clear it up lands as far as um

998
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: Tommy Coughlin jumping over like the scenario that I pointed

999
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: out about trading up. It's not to get back at

1000
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 1: the Giants because Tom's conflin is not the kind of guy.

1001
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 1: He's pretty smart, but I think it would be for

1002
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,399
Speaker 1: a need that he has and that they probably we see.

1003
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: I think Jackson will see something in Haskins. Now, I

1004
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 1: just wanna talk about something very quick here and and

1005
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: kind of following up to what you guys are talking

1006
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 1: about earlier and about what we talked about yesterday with

1007
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,919
Speaker 1: this guy Haskins. Now, I know Paulie that you said

1008
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 1: that you don't see him as a top ten. You

1009
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:18,919
Speaker 1: see him more of like a fifteen or so. That's

1010
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: what I've been told by folks who have studied him.

1011
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: I have not studied his tape yet, so I'm not

1012
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: going to give you my ranking on him. But the

1013
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 1: folks who I believe in respect, who have done this

1014
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: for a lot of years, tell me he's in the

1015
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: fifteen range. Okay, Well, the reason why I say that

1016
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 1: is because UM Todd McShay, who's the guy that doesice.

1017
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 1: We are living as well, said that he would that

1018
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,839
Speaker 1: he would take him over Herbert as Herbert came out

1019
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: in the draft. And I'm just looking at, you know,

1020
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,800
Speaker 1: as far as what maybe as far as the quarterback,

1021
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 1: I think he's the best quarterback in the draft this year.

1022
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,359
Speaker 1: Now as far as you know what the Giants need,

1023
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 1: because I know they usually pick of you know, need,

1024
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 1: not I mean as far as best player available, not need,

1025
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,879
Speaker 1: But to me, I think of I'm looking, I'm going

1026
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 1: down the list with Haskins and looking at everything that

1027
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 1: he does. He's six three two d something pounds, He's

1028
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 1: a pocket quarterback, something that you and I both like.

1029
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: He's he's very good at reading the defense. And then

1030
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: if you look at what he's done, he had one

1031
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 1: game where he kind of fell off, had a bad game,

1032
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: but if you look at when it counts against the

1033
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: nation's top ranked team in Michigan, he did well. Then

1034
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 1: he went to the Rolls Bowl and played against Washington,

1035
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 1: which they had another good defense and lit him up

1036
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: as well. And another thing about Haskins is that he's

1037
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 1: a smart player. So I can't wait to see what

1038
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 1: what you know, what happens in the underwear Olympics, like

1039
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 1: Dave Gentleman says, when he takes the wonder Link tests

1040
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 1: and see how he's gonna do with that. But he's

1041
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: also willing to sit a year and sit behind Eli,

1042
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: so he's eager to learn. The guy has a high character.

1043
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 1: So he's checking off on a lot of things. Now

1044
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: when it comes to the draft, and I'm trying to

1045
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: make this critcause I know you guys got on those calls,

1046
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: but when it comes to the draft, yes, there are

1047
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: a lot of defensive lineman out there, there are a

1048
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: lot of good there's an offensive lineman from Alabama that's

1049
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 1: coming out. I don't know if you guys watched that,

1050
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: but I watched that game over and over again, and

1051
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 1: Farrell took yep, Farrell took him with school. He owned

1052
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 1: them a couple of times in that So you you

1053
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 1: just mentioned a magic word to me. Farrell from Clemson.

1054
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 1: He's actually a guy who I would have serious consideration

1055
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 1: for number six. Absolutely, yes, I love him, but I

1056
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 1: honestly think that he might be gone by the time

1057
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 1: we picked six, because I mean, of course, the bossa

1058
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,320
Speaker 1: and there's the kid from Alabama. I think Fararell was

1059
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: the next defensive lineman go next. If Haskins would goose six,

1060
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think maybe I won't be upset

1061
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,240
Speaker 1: of that Giants don't take him, but I'd be okay

1062
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: if they do, because I know that this defensive line

1063
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: draft is very deep. And there's that kid that's from

1064
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: the kid from Boston College. He's a defensive end. You

1065
00:52:54,040 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: talk about Ray. Who did you say? Ray? Is he

1066
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: the Boston College guy? I haven't done. I haven't done

1067
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 1: all my stuff. His name is not Ray. He's a

1068
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,399
Speaker 1: Boston College defensive ent. Yeah, I know who you mean.

1069
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: Oh man, I hear. I've heard mixed things on him too.

1070
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 1: I'm forgetting his name, but you know not he's a

1071
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 1: good third round pick, second round pick. He is decent.

1072
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 1: You know, I got a better question for you if

1073
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 1: if Farrell and Haskins are both sitting there at six,

1074
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: you're honestly gonna tell him but you're jumping at Haskins

1075
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 1: over over. No, you're taking the clemsonto all right. But

1076
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: but so okay, thank you, because that's all I wanted

1077
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 1: to hear from you. You're afraid to Brian Burns, by

1078
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 1: the way, that's the kid out of Boston no, I'm sorry,

1079
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 1: that's that's full of stake. I'm sorry, my mistake. I'm

1080
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 1: looking through my chart here the Boston College kids. It's

1081
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 1: a short name. It's a short name, short name. You're

1082
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 1: right there. But no, if if Fell is gone, then

1083
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: I would and Haskins is there. But I'll tell you what.

1084
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 1: I guarantee he will be gone before ten. He'll be

1085
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,399
Speaker 1: gone before ten. And I don't see another quarterback Zack

1086
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:08,839
Speaker 1: Allen Zack. I know it was a short name. I'm sorry, Yeah,

1087
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 1: Allen Allen's name. Yeah, But anyway, um, going back to him,

1088
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:14,959
Speaker 1: I don't think I honestly do believe that he's gonna

1089
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,280
Speaker 1: be gone before ten. Not for teams that are desperate.

1090
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 1: But and it all depends how he does in the

1091
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 1: underwear Olympics and on his Wonderling test. If he blows

1092
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 1: that up, he might go number one over he could

1093
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 1: move up. I mean, like I said, it a lot

1094
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 1: depends on what happens over the next few weeks leading

1095
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 1: up to the draft. It's not just what happens in

1096
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:36,359
Speaker 1: the college regular season. Stocks falling race all the time.

1097
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, so, you know, I mean, just because Todd

1098
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:41,799
Speaker 1: McShay is predicting one thing now doesn't mean that his

1099
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 1: next mock draft is gonna look the same, could look

1100
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: very different, right, Yeah, but he's saying, but no, what

1101
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,319
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking about what he said? Because everybody the

1102
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 1: Giants sent um scouts to go scout Herbert when he

1103
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,919
Speaker 1: came out when he was playing at Oregon. Yeah, but

1104
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: but they also they also sent scouts stow to see

1105
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 1: a lot of the quarterbacks last year too, and everybody

1106
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:03,400
Speaker 1: tried to read into that, and then they didn't take

1107
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 1: a quarterback. So right, Oh, I get that, I know.

1108
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 1: And then you know because and um they didn't like

1109
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: any of the quarterbacks and coming out over barking, I

1110
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 1: get that. So I honestly think that they will probably

1111
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: go defensive end or especially FROs there. I would love

1112
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,720
Speaker 1: for them to take him, But hask Is, I honestly

1113
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 1: believe that I kind of disagree with you on this point.

1114
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: With all due respect, He's gonna go top ten maybe sooner. Oh,

1115
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: I think he will. What I'm saying is I suspect

1116
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 1: that that from what I've heard, that he does not

1117
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 1: have that true value. He's gonna be overdrafted. Someone's gonna

1118
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 1: force the issue and take him in the top ten

1119
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 1: even though he's probably not in the top ten on

1120
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: their board. That's what I'm saying, someone's gonna reach. It's

1121
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 1: gonna happen. It's gonna happen. They always do for quarterbacks.

1122
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: Come on, you know that, you know what? Yeah? True,

1123
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 1: But I'll tell you one thing, Um Traviski played the

1124
00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 1: same amount of time that he did, and I see

1125
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 1: more out You're in Haskins and not doing Drabinsky. I

1126
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: honestly do, just because if you look, I've seen a

1127
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,879
Speaker 1: film on this kid. I'm not a big drobisky guy.

1128
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 1: So you're you're you're preaching to the choir there. I'm

1129
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 1: not that big on Drabinsky. Well, one thing I do

1130
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 1: like about Haskins is that he's proven that he can

1131
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,400
Speaker 1: play against And another thing, there's another aspect he played

1132
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,879
Speaker 1: last year. Ohio State's offensive line wasn't great last year,

1133
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: and they're wide receivers are decent. He had good wide receivers.

1134
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 1: The running back wasn't that great, and he had a

1135
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:31,320
Speaker 1: decent tight end. So for him to put up the

1136
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: numbers that he put up and to play against those

1137
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,919
Speaker 1: defense says a lot. Says a lot of no one's

1138
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 1: arguing that he's not a first round pick. Before we go,

1139
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: I want you to answer me in one word, really simple.

1140
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 1: If if the Giants think that Haskins is twelve, fourteen, fifteen,

1141
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 1: if he's in the second ten on their value board,

1142
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 1: should they reach and take him at six? Yes? Or no? Absolutely? No,

1143
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 1: absolutely not, okay, And that's all. That's all I'm at

1144
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,399
Speaker 1: asking you, because if if they have him graded there,

1145
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: then to make that reach would be a mistake. You

1146
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: agree with me on that, and and if that's the case,

1147
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: then I'd like to think that the rest of the

1148
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: fans would agree to Well, I hope they do, but

1149
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: I hope so too. True Giants fans know that they

1150
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: always pick best player available. Here you go. There, you

1151
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: didn't take the quarterback last year. There you go. That's right,

1152
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:25,919
Speaker 1: which I agree with, say Kwon Barkley all the way,

1153
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: b PO. I would love it, alright, my man, I

1154
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 1: won't be upset if they do take halfket We'll talk

1155
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 1: to you soon, thank you. Let's hit up Lenn in Columbia, Maryland. Len,

1156
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 1: what's happening? Welcome to program? What do you got? Yeah? Yeah,

1157
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 1: hey guys, how you doing? Um? Paul. I've got a

1158
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 1: uh neighbor friend who's a Ravens fan who takes great

1159
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: pride in telling me that the number four pick in

1160
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 1: this nineties six draft was Jonathan Ogden. Of course he

1161
00:57:54,720 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 1: would because you know, no, Lenn, I'm not kidding you.

1162
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 1: That's who the Giants wanted, and they knew he was

1163
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: gonna be gone. They knew they could not get him

1164
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 1: at five, and there was a tremendous amount of angst

1165
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: when the Ravens took him at four. That's the guy

1166
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 1: they wanted. Me. Yeah, I could imagine that. I could

1167
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 1: imagine that. Um. You know, gil Gil Brandt is a

1168
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: tough greater when he starts out his review of Berkeley

1169
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: by saying he had a very good year. Oh my goodness,

1170
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 1: come on, Gil, come on, Gil, you can be a

1171
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 1: little more expansive than Barkley had a very good year.

1172
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 1: Jesus was it was a great And then and then

1173
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 1: to make mention of I guess he used the word surprise.

1174
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 1: What surprised him the most was his past Blockie. Oh man, Um,

1175
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 1: Barkley had a fantastic here, not just very good, not

1176
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 1: just very good. You know. One of the things I'm

1177
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 1: gonna ask Sean next week. Um, in all this quarterback

1178
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 1: comparisons going on in rankings and so forth, where would

1179
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 1: he rank Letta's performance Senior Bowl week with the eight

1180
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 1: quarterbacks who were there this Senior Bowl week? No, it's

1181
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 1: an interesting question. But then again, it's like saying, what

1182
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 1: a guy does it the Senior Bowl is indicative of

1183
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 1: what's going to happen in his NFL career. So I

1184
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:22,919
Speaker 1: mean to me, to me, to me a substantive Well,

1185
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 1: he was the MVP of the game. These guys well,

1186
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: but but let he he was the MVP of the game.

1187
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 1: I get that. But what I'm saying is is that

1188
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 1: to me, it's much more interesting to hear what do

1189
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: you think of these quarterbacks in comparison to last year's

1190
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 1: quarterbacks the entire class, not just the guys in the

1191
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl, because you're basing it based on what they

1192
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 1: did during their entire collegiate careers, not just what they

1193
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 1: did for one week. Yes, and and that's that's a

1194
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 1: very good point, Lanson. Obvious point actually, and obviously just

1195
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 1: trying to tie it back to the Giants with Loletta,

1196
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: I was just trying to get him in the conversation.

1197
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:58,440
Speaker 1: I wanted to keep it Giant oriented. I get that,

1198
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 1: but but I feel like gonna ask you on that question.

1199
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 1: No answers. I'm not gonna stop you from asking the question.

1200
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that one. We can't just get caught

1201
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: up in just the Giants quarterbacks. I think you learn

1202
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 1: more if you look at the entire field of quarterbacks

1203
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 1: in comparison to this year's group, not just what Kyle

1204
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 1: Aletta looks like. Because the Giants have to look at everybody.

1205
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 1: They can't just look at one particularly. I was trying

1206
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: trying to keep it home spun. I tell you what,

1207
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 1: it would be hard to beat low let us Senior

1208
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 1: Bowl performance when three touchdown that he was the MVP

1209
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 1: of the game, you know, I mean, he was sensational

1210
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: that day. But I can show you guys that had

1211
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 1: great college performances and didn't turn out simply throw not

1212
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: out there, which is, by the way, why I will

1213
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 1: be watching every single snap of the Senior Bowl with

1214
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 1: pad and paper and pencil in hand. Believe you, there

1215
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 1: you go. Now, let me let me let me try

1216
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: to build on that, um Paul, because of what you said.

1217
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: But also one of the things that I wanted to

1218
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 1: add to this, you know, on draft day, and i'd

1219
01:00:55,920 --> 01:01:00,120
Speaker 1: like your guys response to this. On draft day, every

1220
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 1: bodies are reach. Everybody's a reach, number of reasons. Obviously

1221
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 1: you can. I mean, it's a crap shoot. We've talked

1222
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 1: about that before. Further along you go in the draft,

1223
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: it turns out to be a bigger reach. I mean,

1224
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:18,320
Speaker 1: look at look at Brandt's list. He had some of

1225
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 1: those guys listed. You know, he thought they were the

1226
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 1: seventieth best player and they got and they got drafted

1227
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 1: in the top thirty. Um, would would he say today

1228
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 1: that that was undraft day? Did he say that a

1229
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 1: guy who got picked at thirty that he had ranked

1230
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:38,480
Speaker 1: at seventy or seventy five was a reach on that day?

1231
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody's a reach. And the further on you

1232
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 1: go in the draft, the bigger the reach, the bigger

1233
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 1: the chance that you're taking. Yes, yeah, there you go,

1234
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 1: there you go. So, I mean, you know, I think

1235
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 1: we used the word too much. Um. You know, you

1236
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 1: pick best player available, your best player. Let's say at

1237
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 1: pick ten, there's a team of the teams that has

1238
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 1: that player out of the first round. Maybe a better

1239
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 1: word to use is a team forces a guy instead

1240
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:10,720
Speaker 1: of saying he's a reach, Maybe he's not a reach

1241
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 1: because Team A thinks he's the eighteen best player, and

1242
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 1: Team B thinks he's the thirty one best player. So

1243
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:18,439
Speaker 1: the one team the guys are reached to another team

1244
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:21,600
Speaker 1: he's not. But what you can say is the guy's

1245
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 1: a force, because if it's not unanimous that he's number

1246
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 1: ten and somebody takes him at ten, that it truly

1247
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 1: is a force. And it's highly unlikely that every team

1248
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 1: is going to have the same ranking. So of course

1249
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:37,000
Speaker 1: that's it's best player and of course the best player

1250
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 1: available to you. But it starts in the first round,

1251
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 1: it stops in it starts in the top ten. There's

1252
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 1: more criticism of a team's pick than the than there

1253
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:50,439
Speaker 1: is a pat on the back, no question. Yeah, well,

1254
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 1: I mean that's why you always hear teams say we're

1255
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 1: looking at our board, not just our needs, because we

1256
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 1: got we gotta un we got one more call think

1257
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 1: to keep you keep in mind what you said, take

1258
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 1: take care of we gotta go. Yeah, well, we'll continue

1259
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 1: the conversation later on. I want to squeeze in another call.

1260
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 1: A coach Marvin's in Delaware. Coach Marvin, what's happeneding? Welcome

1261
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 1: to the program? How are doing? Lance? And Paul mar

1262
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 1: What do you got for us? Real quick? I want

1263
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 1: to thank Lance for the time words he gave me

1264
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 1: a day of two or ago. So tell you good man. Okay,

1265
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 1: I don't remember what I said, but you're welcome. As

1266
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: if I don't give you a love Coach, I mean,

1267
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 1: come on now, I'm saying Lynn from the one that

1268
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 1: gave Okay, I thought you willing to take credit for

1269
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 1: something that we know because you you hate Marvin. That's all.

1270
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 1: Now we're getting to the truth. Yet Exactly has given

1271
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 1: me good compliments to and I appreciate all of you guys. Well,

1272
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 1: we're glad to have you. Marvin. What do you have

1273
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 1: for us today? Um? What Lynn? Was what you were

1274
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 1: just talking about? You saying that you're talking about a

1275
01:03:56,680 --> 01:04:00,120
Speaker 1: reach or or anything like that, I would say it

1276
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 1: was more, it was more questionable. Let's just say the

1277
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 1: pick sometimes can be questionable more than a reach or

1278
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 1: any of those things. And I think we did reach

1279
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 1: or was questionable. Flowers was one. I think Flowers was

1280
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:17,960
Speaker 1: rated twenty three or something the year he came out

1281
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 1: and we lost sheriff. He got picked early. He and

1282
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 1: the kid from they went to Miami. Um he he

1283
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 1: had the nil the draft and that heard us and

1284
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 1: so they went with Flowers. Earlier that year said that

1285
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:38,919
Speaker 1: they were going to fix the Office of Lines regardless,

1286
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,520
Speaker 1: and that's what they did. They think the next best

1287
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 1: offensive linement was Flowers. Um. But the last thing I

1288
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: want to talk to about is UH is here talking

1289
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:55,480
Speaker 1: to um? What's the guy Charlie bless his heart? Yeah,

1290
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 1: this is what you want to waste your phone call on.

1291
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 1: Marvin Charlie of all people, will go ahead. Yeah, yeah,

1292
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 1: I couldn't mention his name, but you know, if he

1293
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 1: took down to me, and he's kind of outrage you sometimes,

1294
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: but he can get some points. And he was talking

1295
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 1: about the Miami UM at the Super Bowl game, and

1296
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:15,480
Speaker 1: I kind of follow him in a way. If I

1297
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:17,760
Speaker 1: look at my game planet in my head as I

1298
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 1: think about New England and now you beat him and

1299
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:22,919
Speaker 1: I and I had talked about this before. I think

1300
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 1: Satan's are planned too deep. I think safeties need to

1301
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 1: come into that tin yard range, clutter up the middle

1302
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:32,600
Speaker 1: of the field, make New England to outside those numbers

1303
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 1: and Ivo and I believe that they do have a

1304
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 1: good defensive line with Um with Donald which they won't

1305
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 1: be able to block him completely all day, and Sue,

1306
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 1: which will get into his speech in the Brady speech.

1307
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 1: Then Flowers is the ex factor man, and I think blockings.

1308
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 1: Buckings has also a pretty good player Michael Brown. Yes, yeah,

1309
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 1: and I think they can put some pressure on him

1310
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:00,840
Speaker 1: some of the way the Giants did at them throw

1311
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 1: outside the numbers, because you gotta remember every time New

1312
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 1: England's in this year of Brady, they really never had

1313
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 1: an outstanding wide receiver that beats you totally get down

1314
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:13,680
Speaker 1: the field other than one guy, and we all know

1315
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 1: who that one guy was, Randy Mass, So wank goodness.

1316
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 1: You didn't beat Corey Webster though. Yeah, And then when

1317
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 1: Randy Moss left, they tried to keep that same UM formula,

1318
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 1: so they brought it in in a tight end manner.

1319
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 1: They're doing the same things, they're just doing them with

1320
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 1: different people, and now they try it with Um Glump.

1321
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 1: He plays Randy Moss. He doesn't get down the field

1322
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:44,080
Speaker 1: as fast, but he plays similar at Mass as Mass

1323
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 1: him getting down the sideline and outside and sort of

1324
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 1: outside the number, he's still inside the number, down the hatch, Marvin.

1325
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 1: That's a great point. Pat Kerwin just said yesterday that

1326
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 1: one of the things that makes the Patriots offense so

1327
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 1: deadly is that Tom Brady has been working with the

1328
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 1: same playbook, with the same routes and the same strategies

1329
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 1: and the same philosophies for roughly twenty years. They just

1330
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 1: plugged different guys into those spots and they run the

1331
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:16,400
Speaker 1: same things time after time after time, and they're so cohesive,

1332
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 1: and they do such a great job of teaching these

1333
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 1: new revolving players exactly what they want to get done.

1334
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 1: It's incredible. And they move guys around because of the

1335
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:27,600
Speaker 1: matchups too. I mean, Grenkowski made that catch up the

1336
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 1: left sideline that you're referring to, Coach Marvin, and he

1337
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 1: clearly had a height advantage on who was defending him

1338
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 1: at the time, I don't recall, and Brady put it

1339
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:37,520
Speaker 1: in his spot where only Grenkowski was gonna catch it. Right,

1340
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 1: They could Barry on him because that's right, Eric Barry, yeah,

1341
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 1: before and they thought they could do it again, but

1342
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:46,880
Speaker 1: Barry just came, Yeah, he hasn't been healthy, the same thing,

1343
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 1: and that's what they got. They should have doubled him. YEP,

1344
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 1: I mean called you exactly right. It's the same. They

1345
01:07:53,960 --> 01:08:02,440
Speaker 1: just Danny m Dulis Miami, Julie Edelman. It's been but

1346
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 1: it's been it's been a Mendola, it was it was

1347
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 1: Hogan for a while, it's been Edelman for a while.

1348
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 1: These guys did did they running the same playbook? They're

1349
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 1: doing the same thing, putting them in different positions. They

1350
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 1: putting them in different positions, and we all agree with that.

1351
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:21,679
Speaker 1: But defensively, real quick is what is on the Patriots

1352
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:25,160
Speaker 1: side if they go with that zero coverage, which they

1353
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 1: which they did um last week, the Rams are playing.

1354
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 1: They played a whole field. And the one thing we

1355
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:36,480
Speaker 1: knew all year this year that the New England Patriots

1356
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:39,680
Speaker 1: had a problem with nobody's boughting it up since in

1357
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 1: the playoffs because they've been kind of like playing these

1358
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 1: lane games lately in the last couple of weeks. But

1359
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:49,440
Speaker 1: they played two good games these past two weeks. The linebackers.

1360
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:53,879
Speaker 1: What's wrong with their linebackers? Yeah, they're not great in coverage.

1361
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:58,360
Speaker 1: You must exploit them. And when they go zero coverage,

1362
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 1: you have to have um girl in the game and

1363
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:05,680
Speaker 1: you motioned them outside. You see what he's lined up with,

1364
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 1: say zero coverage is going to be a linebacker. You

1365
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:12,760
Speaker 1: will beat them every time. If they don't, they got

1366
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:14,439
Speaker 1: to come out of that. You make them get out

1367
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:17,720
Speaker 1: of what they're doing. And if you attect their linebackers,

1368
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 1: I believe, and with jet sweep all of these things,

1369
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:26,400
Speaker 1: you can break them. Well. Coach Marvin I I would

1370
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:28,800
Speaker 1: argue you could do the same thing from the Patriots

1371
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:31,280
Speaker 1: side because I'd be concerned about how they match up

1372
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:33,840
Speaker 1: with James Well, No, they could not. They could not

1373
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:36,200
Speaker 1: cover Alvin Kamara in that game at all. And I'm

1374
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:38,960
Speaker 1: not saying James White is the equivalency. But if I'm

1375
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 1: the Patriots, I'm gonna test their linebackers and defensive lineman

1376
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 1: to see if they can get out in the flat

1377
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:46,040
Speaker 1: and match up with those running backs, because I don't

1378
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 1: see they had trouble the whole season, and I agree

1379
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:51,439
Speaker 1: with that, But that's why you bring just step down.

1380
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 1: That's why they're You're conjesting them into those sinyards. Make

1381
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 1: them throw out of the outside the lines, because you're right,

1382
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:01,439
Speaker 1: they're gonna go to the bat, but they don't have

1383
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:03,840
Speaker 1: the same personnels on the outside to do the same

1384
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 1: thing are doing. Coach, we got we gotta run. We

1385
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:09,800
Speaker 1: gotta run, Marvin, please get back to something the other show.

1386
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:12,560
Speaker 1: Take care alright, Coach Marvin, appreciate the phone call. I

1387
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:16,680
Speaker 1: would just add very quickly, the scheming that Belichick and

1388
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 1: his staff will do against Goff very important. Mahomes was

1389
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:22,679
Speaker 1: lost in the first half. Now, I know they didn't

1390
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 1: have as many snaps. I get that, but Mahomes is

1391
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:28,639
Speaker 1: an experience badly cost the Chiefs in the first half

1392
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 1: when they were shut out. Because he didn't know what

1393
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:33,760
Speaker 1: he was seeing. He could not execute and do the

1394
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:36,840
Speaker 1: kinds of things to attack them. That Coach Marvin's talking

1395
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 1: about Ken Goff, who was also relatively inexperienced. Can he

1396
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:45,519
Speaker 1: work the mind games against what the Patriots are gonna

1397
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:47,639
Speaker 1: do to him in the Super Bowl? That is gonna

1398
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 1: be a very critical aspect because he's a young quarterback

1399
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 1: and hasn't had many raps and reps and and the

1400
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:55,799
Speaker 1: point about the ram safeties, I mean LaMarcus Joiners interested

1401
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:59,040
Speaker 1: because he's played slock corner and he's played safety, so

1402
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 1: you can bring in a little bit closer to the line.

1403
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:03,519
Speaker 1: But I have a feeling Belichick is gonna throw a

1404
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,240
Speaker 1: few new wrinkles and corticipation of that as well. That's

1405
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:08,760
Speaker 1: gonna wrap up Big Blue Kickoff Live Today presented by

1406
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:10,880
Speaker 1: Corps Light. Download the Coors Live Rewards app to win

1407
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:13,840
Speaker 1: Amazing Giants prizes. John h Abult Jeff Eagles will be

1408
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:15,680
Speaker 1: here tomorrow as we wrap up the week here on

1409
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 1: Giants dot com, and we'll be back up and running

1410
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:20,120
Speaker 1: on Monday at noon Eastern for another full week of

1411
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 1: coverage and week of the Pro Bowl, the Senior Bowl,

1412
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 1: and looking ahead to Super Bowl fifty three for Paul

1413
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:27,200
Speaker 1: Datino um Lance Meto. Enjoy the rest of your Thursday

1414
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:28,720
Speaker 1: right here on Giants dot com. Have a go on