1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry Tracy Wilson, and today we are going 4 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: to talk about one of those cultural practices that often 5 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: gets put squarely in the barbaric bucket when people outside 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: that culture talk about it and outside of that time. Um. 7 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: But while it does involve some pretty uh you know, 8 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: make your spine crawley manipulation of the body, there are 9 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: a lot more layers to it than that. Uh. And 10 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: heads up, fashion people, this will also cover some fashion elements. 11 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: But we're going to talk about the history of foot binding. 12 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: And we've had a few requests for it, and it's 13 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: also something I've just been fascinated with for a long time, uh, 14 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: largely coming at it from the clothing angle. Yeah. I 15 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: think when we in our in our previous podcast, Pop Stuff, 16 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: I think we talked about it a little bit in 17 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: the episode where we talked about shoes. Yeah. And I 18 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: will talk about one of the books that I talked 19 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: about in that episode. Uh. That was written by an 20 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: author named Dorothy co who will reference a couple of 21 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: times during this podcast. Uh. And it's estimated that during 22 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: the height of footbindings popularity, more than two billion girls 23 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 1: had their feet altered in this way. Although I will 24 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: say this looking at multiple different sources, as often happens, 25 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm always kind of saying this qualifier. 26 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: You will see vastly different numbers. Some will list one billion, 27 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: some will list three billion. But I found several the 28 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: list two billion, and it's the mean. So I we're 29 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: using that number. So and regardless b with a B 30 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: billion like many many, many um. And part of the 31 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: reason is that this practice went on for more than 32 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: ten centuries. I mean, it was more than a thousand 33 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: years of China's cultural history, and that is a very 34 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: long time. I don't need to tell anyone far more 35 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: than you can really just right off as a cultural 36 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: or fashion fat. I mean, this was an ingrained part 37 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: of culture. So we're going to examine today what it 38 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: is about footbinding that made it such an important cornerstone 39 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: of Chinese womanhood for so very long, and kind of 40 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: how the different facets of its place in the culture. 41 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,519 Speaker 1: The exact origin point of binding we don't really know, 42 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: As with many things, it may have begun in the 43 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 1: Late Tongue Dynasty, between six eighteen and nine oh six. 44 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: Some scholars point instead to a period that's actually referred 45 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: to as the Five Dynasties and Ten States period, and 46 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: this was a period of time when political upheaval was 47 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: so constant that leadership in China was changing so rapidly 48 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: that they it doesn't always get given individual dynasty names. 49 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: It gets lumped under this bigger one, and that was 50 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: in between the Tong dynasty and the Song dynasty. There 51 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: are several different origin stories that kind of load around. 52 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: In one, the favorite concubine of an emperor bound her 53 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: foot into the shape of a hoof so that she 54 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: could dance on a gilded lotus stage. And this origin 55 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: story sort of characterizes the binding that the concubine did 56 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: as similar to using point shoes in ballet. It was 57 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: just a temporary alteration of a dancer's foot. And because 58 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: this dancing concubine in this story was the emperor's favorite, 59 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: she set a trend with her tiny lotus feet that 60 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: she had created for this dance, and ladies of the 61 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: court wished to emulate her style, and that started the practice. 62 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: Another version of the story features another concubine who had 63 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: naturally tiny, delicate feet and was ordered to bind them 64 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: so that they wouldn't grow and similar to the dancing tail. 65 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: This practice was then emulated by other court ladies. And 66 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: then there's another origin theory that suggests that there was 67 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: an empress uh during an earlier period that had a 68 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: club foot, and d of the court began binding their 69 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: feet to resemble her, although some versions of the story 70 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: portrayed the empress as demanding that other women be bound 71 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: so that they would all kind of have a similar 72 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: foot shape. Uh. And this particular story really predates the 73 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: Tong dynasty timeline by more than a thousand years in 74 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: some tellings, uh. Sometimes it's place between seventeen hundred and 75 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: ten twenty seven b c. E. And this one is 76 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: not really substantiated, uh terribly well, so it's usually disregarded 77 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: by scholars, and they tend to favor more of the 78 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: Tong dynasty or five Dynasties and ten States era as 79 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: being when this all happened. Regardless of exactly how the 80 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: practice began, we do know that during the Song dynasty 81 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: from nine sixty to twelve ninety seven, foot binding became 82 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: more and more popular and became a lot more common 83 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: throughout the upper classes, and then during the Ming period, 84 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: which began around thirteen eight, footbinding really spread in popularity 85 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 1: to the work in classes and even into rural villages, 86 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: and because of its status symbolism, it's even been theorized 87 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: that women who wished to marry up adopted this practice 88 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: and that that's how it eventually saturated Chinese society at 89 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: almost every level. There are also scholars who argue that 90 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: marrying into a higher social class wasn't really the motivation 91 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: for adopting footbinding and more rural areas, but that was 92 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: instead a means to keep girls at home working in 93 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: domestic duties. They could not run off to a better life, uh, 94 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: particularly when they were young and their feet were still 95 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: kind of being formed and altered in this way, so 96 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: they would have to stay home and work on textiles 97 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: and do things around the house. But the footbinding continued 98 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: to grow steadily in popularity, and by the middle of 99 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: the seventeenth century, pretty much any girl who wished to 100 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: marry underwent this body modification, and that remained the state 101 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,119 Speaker 1: of affairs were right up until the twentieth century. So 102 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: now back to slightly more squeamishy subjects of how footbinding 103 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: was actually performed. It is described as having been performed 104 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: really with great care, and only women were present during 105 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 1: what was likely a very tortuous affair. So first the 106 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: girl's feet would be very carefully washed, her nails clipped, 107 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: and alum and other astringens would be applied to the feet. 108 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: Then the outer four toes were folded under the foot, 109 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: which required breaking them, and the feet were then bound 110 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: up with long cloth wraps to bring the toes very 111 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: close to the heel and a very extreme arch. And 112 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: the goal was to form this coveted golden lotus shape. Yeah. 113 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: And some versions, uh, descriptions that I've read of how 114 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: this was performed suggests that the feet the toes weren't 115 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: broken to fold them under, although some describe it that way. 116 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 1: Others say that the toes just broke by virtue of 117 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: them being folded under and then wrapped so tightly they 118 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: sort of throughout the process. Neither sounds very enjoyable. Uh. 119 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: And when people talk about bound feet, the perception then 120 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: becomes I think that the entire foot was made to 121 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: be tiny, But that's not entirely accurate. Uh. It's more 122 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: a matter of kind of folding the foot in such 123 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: a way that the space it occupies is different than 124 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: if it were allowed to grow naturally. So a lotus slipper, 125 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: which is what the shoes for bound feet are called, 126 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: UH would cover the toes, which had formed kind of 127 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: a point at this point, and then the heel, but 128 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,679 Speaker 1: a significant portion of the actual mass of the foot 129 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: was actually above the shoe, so you can imagine it's 130 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: sort of being folded down as well as under. Normally, 131 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: the process of creating this golden lotus foot would start 132 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: when a girl was really very young and her feet 133 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: were still malleable, so the bones had not completely solidified yet. 134 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: So foot binding would usually start between the ages of 135 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: four and six. And while there were certainly outliers beyond 136 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: these numbers, children younger than four we're not believed to 137 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: be able to handle the pain of binding their feet, 138 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: and after the age of six the bones were a 139 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: lot more difficult to alter. Yeah, there are stories of 140 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: girls being altered as early as two, and some girls 141 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: later on as it was sort of spreading into more 142 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: rural areas when they were really beyond the age where 143 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: it was most ideal. Um, But the two to six 144 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: or the four to six ranges what you'll normally see. 145 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: And this process of actually getting the foot bound into 146 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: the the desired shape would actually take two to three 147 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: years because these are children and they're growing, so the 148 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: bones would have to be rebroken periodically as the foot grew. 149 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: So as a child grew, they would, you know, continue 150 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: to wrap the toes under more and more and more 151 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:53,959 Speaker 1: as they got longer, and then they would keep binding 152 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: them and they would rebreak on each binding. Yeah. So, 153 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: and of course when a foot is being broken and 154 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: tied into these positions and and very rarely uncovered, there 155 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: are going to be other issues aside from all the 156 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: breakage and the reforming of the way the footlooks. Sores 157 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 1: and even gang green were among the potential risks and 158 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: bound feet, particularly as this became a lot more widespread 159 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: and commonplace, bound feet were described pretty often as smelling 160 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: quite unpleasant because unwrapping and washing them was a very 161 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: time consuming affair. And in addition to these fairly obvious 162 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: negative physical effects UH footbindings, long term repercussions on women's 163 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: health has also been studied in kind of the more 164 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: modern era UH. In a University of California study, published 165 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: its findings after examining a group of women in Beijing, 166 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: And so at this point, footbinding had was not really 167 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: happening regularly, but there were still women in the population 168 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: who had had their feet found when they were young. 169 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: And so these researchers found that when they compared all 170 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: of these women, the women with bound feet had about 171 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: five percent lower bone density than their peers without bound feet. Uh. 172 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: And since weight bearing exercise is one of the things 173 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: that helps maintain bone density, it makes sense that women 174 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: with reduced mobility would experience bone loss at a faster 175 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: rate than people who had not had this done. Uh. 176 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: Just an interesting thing that I don't think. I certainly 177 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: had not thought about it until I was doing the 178 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: research on this. Yeah. Well, and even knowing the importance 179 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: of weight bearing exercise and bone health like that is 180 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: something that never occurred to me either. Yeah. And they 181 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: do describe Um. I mean, I feel like we should 182 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: note that women with bound feet could walk, although they 183 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: were not likely to walk terribly long distances. It wasn't 184 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: like they were confined to a chair, which I think 185 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: sometimes people conjure in their heads that this is crippling 186 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: to a point that mobility is completely eradicated, but that's 187 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: not accurate. They kind of learned to live with this 188 00:10:55,640 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: and walk on it. Um And there are some um 189 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: write ups of it that suggests that the women that 190 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,719 Speaker 1: had their feet bound did end up actually developing very 191 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: strong leg and hip and buttock muscles, kind of his 192 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: compensation for the state of their feet. Um. But even so, 193 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: bone loss over time is something that you can't really 194 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: avoid with even if you have great muscularity. As with 195 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: any trend that starts in the upper class and then 196 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: becomes widespread, there was a certain amount of status that 197 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: was associated with foot binding. So not only would a 198 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 1: bound foot be really delicate and tiny, which were characteristics 199 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: that were often described as beautiful when mentioned in relation 200 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: to foot binding, it would also make the owner of 201 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: the foot really unable to do heavy manual labor. A 202 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: woman with bound feet was elevated beyond work. Basically, a 203 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: man who could have a wife who was unable to 204 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: help with manual labor would also gain status. While the 205 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 1: roots of the practice of systematic crippling are in fact 206 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: in the aristocracy, and they initially at their inception, were 207 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: to convey the wealth and standing of the person whose 208 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: feet were bound uh During the Song Dynasty, the overall 209 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: status of women really shifted into a lower position than 210 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: it had been, and women at this point really lost 211 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:21,479 Speaker 1: some of their power, both in their marriage and in society, 212 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: and they were no longer as educated as women had 213 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: been during previous eras. And in this context, foot binding 214 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: became less about status and fashion and it sort of 215 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: took on a more sinister connotation. So at this point, 216 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:40,239 Speaker 1: a woman with bound feet was physically weakened and subjugated 217 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 1: to the role of a trophy wife, while a man 218 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: who was married to a woman with bound feet still 219 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 1: gained the same status from it, being able to say, yes, 220 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: my wife is unable to do work, I can keep 221 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: a wife that's just pretty. She's not really contributing to 222 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: the day to day, whereas the woman in that case, 223 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: her life had shifted completely, but the men in the 224 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: pictures still got the same benefit. At the same time, 225 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: as foot binding became hugely popular throughout all the social strata, 226 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: the only women who wouldn't have their feet mound were 227 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: the ones who were extremely poor, or are the ones 228 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: who worked on fishing boats. And so these were women 229 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: who just really simply could not afford the life of 230 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: reduced mobility that came with having their feet bound, and 231 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: on another sort of level of it, outside of first 232 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: the sort of fashion and empowerment and then the subjugation 233 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: of women, bound feet also had this element of being 234 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: considered extremely erotic and beautiful, and they were really even 235 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: fetishized by some books were written about maximizing sexual pleasure 236 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: by stroking bound feet. Uh. Although the sort of odd 237 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: flip is that a woman's bound feet were virtually never 238 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: seen naked by a man. Not even her husband would 239 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: normally ever see her feet. It was customary for a 240 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: woman with bound feet to sleep not only in bindings, 241 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: but also in special bed shoes sort of sleeping slippers 242 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: that covered her lotus feet. So we don't want to 243 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: avoid the fact that, UH, footbinding had had an innately 244 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: disfiguring nature, but at the same time it was also 245 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: an incredibly complex social practice. It's hard to comprehend perhaps 246 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: how a mother would have her daughter's feet bound, like 247 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: why a mother would put her daughter through this practice, 248 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: But it's really important to also consider that that once 249 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: footbinding was a really common practice, leaving a child's feet 250 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: unbound would basically condemn her to a life with no 251 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: marriage prospects and societal scorn. And it's important, uh to 252 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: also discuss the fact that this practice was also ingrained 253 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: in women's culture in ways that might not be immediately apparent. UH. 254 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: Footbinding was passed from mother to daughter as an important 255 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: rite of passage, and this really created a unique bond 256 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: uh in groups of women, as adult women shared their 257 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: knowledge on enduring the pain and discomfort of the procedure 258 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: with younger girls, and they in many ways it's described 259 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: as them teaching the next generation how to survive in 260 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: a world where men had the power. So it's kind 261 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: of like they're a mentorship, very unique, certainly not the 262 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: standard mentorship you would normally think of. Um, yeah, I 263 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: think it this it has parallels with female circumcision also 264 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: called female genital mutilation in that way that it was 265 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: a very mother to daughter practice, with mothers passing information 266 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: onto their daughters about how their lives are going to 267 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: be after this practice is performed on their body. Yeah. Um, 268 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: Like I struggle to wrap my head around all of 269 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: that as as somebody who like I have no firsthand 270 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: experience with either of these cultures or practices. Um, it's hard, 271 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: you know, as you said, without first hand experience, to 272 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: imagine just surviving that and then the idea of getting 273 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: through it and then going and I'm going to do 274 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: that to one of the people I love most. Yeah, 275 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: it sort of becomes an impossible situation for women in 276 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: the culture to have to choose between a daughter who's 277 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: going to be outcast forever and a daughter he's going 278 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: to have this this painful and debilitating and disfiguring procedure 279 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: performed on them. But they also, you know, culturally, it 280 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: had been sort of ingrained so much that that was 281 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: an achievement of beauty that I think that kind of 282 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: mitigated to some degree, some of the thinking of this 283 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: is horrible. Like I think that in many cases there 284 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: probably was no choice considered. It was just this is 285 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: what you do to be pretty. Uh, It's it's mentally 286 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: it's a struggle I think for like you said, for 287 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: people that have no first hand experience of that, Like 288 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: I I cannot on a LEAs say what I would 289 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: do as a mother if that were the choice given 290 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: to me. Oh yeah, I mean, uh, But to get 291 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: to the pretty things. Not to downplay the important about discussion, 292 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 1: but women also really bonded over the stitching of these 293 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: lotus shoes, and this was a task which would often 294 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: be performed in group settings, like women would come together 295 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: to so lotus shoes, and these tiny shoes, which are 296 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: now very highly prized by collectors, would often carry messages 297 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: and symbolism in their decoration. Shoes for brides would have um, 298 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: you know, message laden symbolism in the form of embroidery 299 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: or painted imagery. They would even have sometimes erotic imagery 300 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: in the souls that was intended for the bride to 301 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: share with the groom. Uh. And shoes that were meant 302 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,919 Speaker 1: for day to day wardrobes would feature symbols and designs 303 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: that expressed the wearer's personality. They would sometimes carry greetings 304 00:17:55,600 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: from female relatives. They would also sometimes have astrological meaning. Uh. 305 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: There were these little, tiny works of art that had 306 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: so much intent behind their every design that that also 307 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: was kind of part of the bonding among women was 308 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: creating these beautiful little um accessories right well. And while 309 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: foot binding had transitioned from being a source of status 310 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 1: for women to a source of subjugation for women, the 311 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: world of the lotus slipper remained really the world of 312 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 1: women and was a very cherished form of expression right 313 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: until the end of her life. A woman's lotus shoes 314 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: were really imbued with both meaning and fashion. A woman's 315 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: final pair of shoes her funerary pair, which she would 316 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,479 Speaker 1: normally make herself. They were also sometimes called her longevity shoes. 317 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: Was traditionally blue, and these would be fairly plain when 318 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: compared to other lotus shoes, but on the soul, a 319 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: lotus blossom and other small symbols, sometimes like a crane, 320 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: would accompany the embroidered phrase every step of Lotus all 321 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: the way to Heaven. And these are the shoes that 322 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 1: they were wearing, you know, in their repose of death. 323 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: And it's sort of a beautiful idea that they would 324 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: be simple and beautiful and just carrying this message that 325 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: they were going to the afterlife in the sort of beautiful, 326 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: delicate way. Uh. And I can only imagine what it's 327 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: like to make your own pair of shoes that you're 328 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: going to wear after you have died. It reminds me 329 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: of craftsmen making their own casket. Um Dorothy co who 330 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: Holly mentioned earlier, has written two books about footbinding and 331 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 1: its cultural roots, and she said in an l A 332 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: Times interview quote, it is hard to romanticize the practice, 333 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: and I'm happy to see it go, but it is 334 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: a pity that there is no comparable, but obviously less 335 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: painful practice to take its place and bond generations. Before 336 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:00,160 Speaker 1: we get to how footbinding stopped being a standard part 337 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: of a Chinese girl's life, do you want to pause 338 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 1: for one moment for a word from our sponsor. Let's 339 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: do okay, and with that we'll get back to the 340 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: matter at hand of footbinding. Obviously, this is not a 341 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: practice that's still going on. So the end of footbinding 342 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: was actually catalyzed in part by Christian missionaries who traveled 343 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: to China in the nineteenth century, and at this point 344 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: footbinding was more popular than ever, and foreign visitors seeing 345 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: it for the first time were immediately outspoken against it. 346 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: And yes, this does indeed bring up a whole other 347 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 1: debate over the conceit of imposing your own cultural norms 348 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: on another culture versus the idea of interceding on behalf 349 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: of children who you think are being systematically abused in 350 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 1: this modification process. But that is a whole other discussion 351 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 1: that could go on for to be like a twelve 352 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 1: part or we're going for one. And I remember having 353 00:20:55,160 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: a whole, a whole long series of discussions and class 354 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,479 Speaker 1: that I took in college about that exact question of 355 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 1: like when when you are a culture, when you're part 356 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: of a culture, that is that is becoming introduced to 357 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: another culture and that other culture does something that your 358 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: culture finds to be barbaric and offensive, like where is 359 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: the line? And I we never got to any kind 360 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: of satisfying resolution in that discussion, because there isn't one um. Again, 361 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: that's a whole, big mammoth discussion. So in addition to 362 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: the work of the missionaries, there were also many Chinese 363 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: intellectuals who went abroad to study and returned to their 364 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: homeland afterward with a new perspective on the practice, and 365 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: they joined the chorus of Christ for abandoning this tradition, 366 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: and eventually public opinion shifted against foot binding enough for 367 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: the band that took place in nine to take effect. Yeah, 368 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: and it's one of those things where it's not like 369 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: the whole country suddenly went oh, yeah, we shouldn't be 370 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: doing this. I mean, this was something that um was 371 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: hard fought on both sides. It was not cut and dried. Uh. 372 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: And while the embracing of this different fashion meant that 373 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: little girls were no longer being forced to hobble on 374 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: broken feet, it really also created this sort of lost 375 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: generation of women in China who had grown up with 376 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: modified feet, and now we're finding themselves spurned to some 377 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: degree is relics of an age that was more and 378 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: more associated with this embarrassment over this practice. In an 379 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: interview with NPR, author Young Young said, these women were 380 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: shunned by two eras. When they were young, foot binding 381 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: was already forbidden, so they bound their feet in secret. 382 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: When the communist era came, production methods changed, they had 383 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: to do farming work, and again they were shunned. Yeah. 384 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: These were women that were never meant to do real 385 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: heavy labor, as we said before, and suddenly they had to. 386 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: There was just no choice. So they had to keep 387 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: up with people that had not had this modification done 388 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: to their feet. Uh. I can only imagine how difficult 389 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: they had to have been. And they were also shunned 390 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: as being unfashionable. And while that sounds like an almost 391 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: flip thing to even mention, it was actually a very 392 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: serious and problematic issue. Women were sometimes abandoned by their husbands. 393 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: Husbands as a consequence of being suddenly thrust into this 394 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: position where they were considered irretrievably unattractive. Additionally, some women 395 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 1: with bound feet were actually attacked in the streets and 396 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 1: their bindings were cut and it exposed their feet in 397 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: the assault. And since, as we mentioned earlier, women with 398 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,239 Speaker 1: bound feet normally never showed them to anyone, so this 399 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: was an incredibly cruel and humiliating thing to do. Despite 400 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: the band, there were villages that still practiced footbinding into 401 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, and rural areas where footbinding stayed in 402 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: favor a long time after the band was instituted. Parents 403 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 1: would hide their daughters tiny feet in big shoes to 404 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: try to full government inspectors. Yeah, there are lots of 405 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 1: firsthand account that you'll read where people talk about, you know, 406 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 1: getting these big shoes and having to stuff them with 407 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: cotton and trying to angle their foot in so that 408 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 1: it would stay in the shoe, and just so they 409 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: could kind of maintain this thing that they still thought 410 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: was really a part of their culture they didn't want 411 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: to let go of. But eventually footbinding was abandoned. Even 412 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: in these hold out areas. Uh As with any huge 413 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: cultural shift. As I said earlier, it's not like it 414 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: happened all at once, and it's sort of slowly petered 415 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 1: out over time. Uh in these last few villages that 416 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: hung onto it. And there were also some probably well 417 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: intended but ultimately misguided efforts to force women who had 418 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: bound feet to unbind them. But this was met with 419 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: a whole lot of resistance from the women themselves because 420 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: giving up binding as an adult, in addition to all 421 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: the cultural implications we've just been talking about, often resulted 422 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: in excruciating pain. Yeah, there's one story that's told. I 423 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: think it comes been one of Dorothy Coe's books where 424 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 1: she talks about um, a woman going up to a man. 425 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: I think she has like a a knot of dough 426 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: that's been baked, and she says, if you can return 427 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: this to its original shape, I will stop binding my feet. 428 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: You can't do it well. And once once a person's feet, 429 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: like their footbones have broken and re healed repeatedly, like 430 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: there's no going back now, and like even it seems like, 431 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: even with extensive corrective surgeries, would probably just be a 432 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 1: life of a different pain than the pain that was 433 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 1: already there. Yeah, yeah, uh. And in her book Cinderella's Sisters, 434 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: Dorothy Co describes this period after footbinding is a really 435 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: emotionally confused time for a lot of China, as the 436 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: country transitioned out of this cultural norm that had been 437 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: ingrained for many, many centuries. So even I think there 438 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: may be a couple of survivors still with bound feet. 439 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: Many of them died in the early two thou that 440 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 1: had been sort of the ones on record. But even so, 441 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: it's like when you hear interviews with them, there is 442 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: this there's conflict even now or you know, in the 443 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: recent years prior to any of them passing away, where 444 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 1: on the one hand, they they sort of still seem 445 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: to think it's pretty, but they also recognize that it's 446 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: not really, uh, something that is sustainable in the modern world, 447 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 1: Like they kind of recognize their own sort of awkward position, 448 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 1: which is heartbreaking in many ways. Yeah, it's like already said, 449 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine, but I can't even imagine, Like 450 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine living in a world where the 451 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: relationships between genders are so heavily influenced by this practice 452 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: that is eventually banned, Like that. I mean, it really 453 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: threw a lot of established cultural norms out the window 454 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: and sort of like where do we go from here? 455 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 1: Like how does this change everything? Uh? And you know 456 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: that was a time when when China was shifting a 457 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: lot anyway culturally, So this was one part of a 458 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: much bigger picture of constant change. Uh. But yeah, it's 459 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: a fascinating little part of the culture that I say little, 460 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: but it was really huge because it was really day 461 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: to day life, Yeah, affecting every aspect. Basically. I was 462 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: trying to think of like something, um, like two modern 463 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,199 Speaker 1: Americans that would be comparable, but it's it's difficult to 464 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: think of anything. Yeah, there's certainly no thing that we 465 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 1: have been doing for like a thousand years that no 466 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: one else was doing. Yeah, the United States as a 467 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: nation hasn't even existed for a thousand years. I mean 468 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 1: that obviously there were many people with many cultures here before, 469 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 1: which brings up this whole same issue we've been talking 470 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: about when when one culture begins to enforce its own 471 00:27:54,080 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: norms upon another, what happens food for thought for sure. Uh. 472 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: And with that, I will turn us towards listener mail. 473 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 1: Let's do that. So This is a mail that we 474 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: got in response to our Maurice Duplasy episodes, and it 475 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: is from our listener. I'm going to assume he goes 476 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: by Denny Um and not Dennis, although if you whichever, 477 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: he can give me a yell and tell me I'm wrong. Uh. 478 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: And he says, Bog Holly and Tracy Uh. And he says, 479 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: I was. I'm I'm editing a little bit because it's 480 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: a longish email, so my apologies to Deny for taking 481 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: out any of his words. It's a long email, but 482 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: it's so full of interesting and good information. He says. 483 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: I was happy and pleasantly surprised that this part of 484 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: our history referring to Maurice Stuplassy made it to the 485 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: to your show. But also because I'm a little bit 486 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: obsessed by Duplessy being from the same town and all. 487 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: He has a statue his birthhouse as a museum, the 488 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: whole shebang. Really, I've always found the podcast instructive and interesting, 489 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: and I was intrigued to hear this story from an unbiased, 490 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: in different perspective. You see, not only is Duplessy in 491 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: the Great Darkness still polarizing all fifty five years after 492 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: his death, but it still relates to current political tensions 493 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: and sentiment. I will do my best to leave my 494 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: personal opinions out of this email, but for full disclosure, 495 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: I work for the federal government. It's a Mountie. I 496 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: don't think we've ever gotten an email from a Mountie before, 497 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: though if we have, I apologized that I did not 498 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: acknowledge it, and he says I want to elaborate on 499 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: why Holly I believe did not get any response when 500 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,719 Speaker 1: asking English Canadians for info about Duplessi. That was me. 501 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: In Canada, there is a wide cultural schism between French 502 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: and English, but also Quebec and the rest. In Quebec 503 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: we learned little about other provinces past the confederation in 504 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty seven. Uh. The opposite is true for the 505 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: rest of Canada, where they learned just about nothing about 506 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: us at all. And this leads to an almost unfillable 507 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: cultural gap between the two founding people and ultimately makes 508 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: us both slightly ignorant of the other and therefore not 509 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: surprised at all that the Anglophones would know nothing of Duplessy. Ironically, 510 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: Duplassy is mostly credited for seating this gap in first place. 511 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: Just fascinating. Uh. Okay, I'm jim hanging ahead a little bit. 512 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: As I said, it's full of information. I'm trying to 513 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: hit the high points. Uh. There's an interesting tidbit you 514 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: did not mention that I think is worth mentioning. The 515 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: du Plessy Bridge, which collapsed in nineteen fifty and was 516 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: rebuilt we mentioned in the episode, still stands today, only 517 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: a few meters north of where the collapse happened. You 518 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: can actually still see the old pillars sticking out of 519 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: the water. It was left pretty much unchanged until last 520 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: year when it went when it underwent renovations to modernize 521 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: the lighting and enlarge it a bit, I believe. But 522 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,719 Speaker 1: the most interesting thing was the well documented speech at 523 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: the original bridges inauguration. Du Plassy said this bridge will 524 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: be as solid and long lasting as the Union Nationals government, 525 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: which was ominous of the latter's devise. Of course. Uh 526 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: he talks about the du Passy kind of devious voting things, 527 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: and one of the good things he actually did is 528 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: still here today. The flag prior to nine nineteen fifty, 529 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: in its present form, Quebec had a Union Jack type 530 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: provincial ensign. As many provinces still have today looked at Ontario, 531 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: for instance. But in his push to give French Canadians 532 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: their own identity and for other political reasons, I'm sure 533 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: Duplessy had the new flag pushed through the Assembly and 534 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: it became the ominous Fleur de Lis or the white 535 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: Saint George cross on a blue background with Fleur de 536 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: Lee in all four corners. This was a major departure 537 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: from the unified federalism that existed prior to his reign. Interestingly, 538 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: this was actually a Roman Catholic flag, going to show 539 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: his closeness to the Church. Equally interesting, one of the 540 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: early drafts for the flag was a single red maple leaf, 541 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 1: which of course became the Canadian flag in nineteen sixty eight. 542 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: I think don't quote me. I did not look up 543 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: to see if it was my apologies. And he does 544 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about other things and some 545 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: of the other things that he was associated with and 546 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: accused of. But I really like, uh this paragraph towards 547 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: the end er he says I have come I've always 548 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: come to the conclusion that Duplessy was as close as 549 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: Canada ever came to a dictatorship, in the sense that 550 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: given some more time, I'm convinced it would have turned 551 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,239 Speaker 1: into a personality cult. Even with the orphan scandal, we 552 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: were treading dangerously close to a totalitarian regime. Uh so cool. 553 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: I love having all of this insight uh from someone 554 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: who is from Quebec and can give us that perspective, because, 555 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: as I said, all the Canadians I know are not 556 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: from Quebec. I think I have a couple of relatives 557 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: there that are so distant I could not get ahold 558 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: of them. So it's very cool. We also, i should 559 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: point out, did get some letters from people in other 560 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: parts of Canada that said, no, no no, we did learn 561 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: a little bit about duplacy in class, not as in 562 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: depth certainly as someone who grows up in Quebec, but 563 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: that divide is very fascinating to me. It's super fascinating 564 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: to me. If you would like to write to us, 565 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: you can do so at History Podcast at Discovery dot com. 566 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: You can visit us at Facebook dot com, slash missed 567 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: in History at missed in History on Twitter, missed in 568 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: History dot tumbler dot com, on tum learn, and you 569 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: can visit us on pinterest dot com slash mist in 570 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: History where we are pinning away and have pictures of duplacy, 571 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: and we'll soon have pictures of beautiful load isssues uh. 572 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: If you would like to learn more about what we 573 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: talked about today, you can go to our website and 574 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: type in the words footbinding into the search bar and 575 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: you will get an entire article called how footbinding works 576 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: are worked past tense uh, which covers some of the 577 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: things that I talked about today and some other elements 578 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: of it. 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