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Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women in them, are

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Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they

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Speaker 2: have individualism? It's the patriarchy. Zephy and Beast start changing

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Speaker 2: with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Caitlyn, Hey Jamie.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever wanted to watch a movie that's sort

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Speaker 2: of like Mulan but without literally anything that made it fun?

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Speaker 1: I can't say that I have wanted that too bad?

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Speaker 2: Do I have the movie for you? Is it g

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Speaker 2: I Jane? It's with deepest regrets, it's g I Jane. Wow,

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Speaker 2: there's what I mean there? What is this movie if

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Speaker 2: not the be a Man thing over and over and over,

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Speaker 2: but with a soundtrack that is completely dissonant with what

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Speaker 2: is happening on screen. This, I mean, this is a

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Speaker 2: small nitpick to start with, but the soundtrack to this movie.

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Speaker 2: I have a theory as to why it is the

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Speaker 2: way it is, but it's it's fun weird. Ridley Scott

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Speaker 2: is so all over the place. He really is what

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Speaker 2: goes through this man's head? But the why is why

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Speaker 2: is the pretenders in G I Jane? Like? Can we

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Speaker 2: leave them out of it? I don't like that the

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Speaker 2: pretender that Chrissy Hind got like G I Jane Dollar Anyways, anyways, there.

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Speaker 1: The feel like making love.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, why is that there? That's why Vigo morton'sage accent,

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Speaker 2: Vigo Morton's in shorts. Why are so? And this this

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Speaker 2: is the this is the petty complaint Runk. There's also

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Speaker 2: I mean, but like, okay, Chrissy Hind, Randy Newman, Mozart,

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Speaker 2: even Mozart's catching a stray by appearing in G. I.

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Speaker 2: Jane Like, it's just you just hate to see you

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Speaker 2: hate to see it. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. I

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Speaker 2: guess we were gonna have to cover this one eventually,

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Speaker 2: weren't we.

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Speaker 1: We were.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jamie, my name is Caitlin. This is

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Speaker 1: our show where we examine movies through an intern sectional

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Speaker 1: feminist lens, using the Bechdel test simply as a jumping

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Speaker 1: off point. That is a media metric, many different versions.

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna breeze through this today because there's so

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Speaker 1: much to talk about.

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Speaker 2: I know, it's like, but it is, I mean, it's this,

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Speaker 2: this movie is slippery in a way that like does

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Speaker 2: it pass the Bechdel Test? Sure, but at what cost? Exactly?

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Speaker 1: Exactly, so many different versions of the test. The one

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Speaker 1: that we use is do two characters of a marginalized

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Speaker 1: gender have names? Do they speak to each other? And

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Speaker 1: is there conversation about something other than a man? And

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Speaker 1: we ideally like it when it's a narratively meaningful conversation,

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Speaker 1: which in this case, sure it's narratively meaningful, but is

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Speaker 1: the narrative at what jingoistic bullshit?

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's like if you had to email the Pentagon

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Speaker 2: to get your movie made. Reconsider Yeah all right, yeah,

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Speaker 2: well buckle in because spoiler alert, it does pass the

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Speaker 2: Bechtel test. But that is literally what we will not really,

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Speaker 2: I mean, it is relevant because it passes the Bechdel

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Speaker 2: test way before the Bechdel test was a culturally relevant marker,

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Speaker 2: and it does so very intentionally, but to a very

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Speaker 2: nefarious end, which is to recruit women to the American military.

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Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, at what cost? We have a wonderful guest.

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Speaker 1: Let's get her in the mix. She is a lawyer

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Speaker 1: and host of the five to four podcast and popular

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Speaker 1: Cradle podcast. It's Rhan and Hamam.

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Speaker 3: Hi welcome, hello, and you're welcome. You said you know,

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Speaker 3: we'll just have to you know, we knew we'd have

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Speaker 3: to get to g I Jane at some point. You're

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Speaker 3: welcome for being the person that brought it to twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty five.

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Speaker 2: For you guys, thank you came much true, It came true. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I guess to start, let's talk about our history with

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Speaker 2: this movie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Rhannon, what's your relationship with it?

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Speaker 3: So this is really interesting because I had a childhood

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Speaker 3: relationship to this movie. Without seeing the movie as a child,

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Speaker 3: I had a relationship to it in that the promo

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Speaker 3: for the movie, Demi Moore and the casts, you know

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Speaker 3: what is it called their their publicity tour for it.

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Speaker 3: Let's say the interviews that they gave. The hoopla that

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Speaker 3: was made about, in particular some of the what people

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Speaker 3: would call iconic scenes. Demi Moore shaves her head right

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Speaker 3: in this movie, those kinds of things. Demi Moore screams

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Speaker 3: at one point, suck my yes. That that sort of

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Speaker 3: like media really hit me as a kid. I remember

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Speaker 3: seeing things like this being like discussed on TV. And

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Speaker 3: you know Demi Moore's workout routine, these kinds of things right,

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Speaker 3: and I as a child was even though let's go

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Speaker 3: ahead and get it out there. I'm Palestinian Arab growing

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Speaker 3: up in the time post Gulf War then post nine

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Speaker 3: to eleven. Right, So as a child, I was somehow

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Speaker 3: even with that context about myself out in the open here.

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Speaker 3: As a child, I was not clocking that the movie

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Speaker 3: was about US imperialism, right, the violence of like the

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Speaker 3: US military. I was not clocking this at all. And

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Speaker 3: again I never saw I never saw the movie. So anyways,

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Speaker 3: invited onto this podcast, was thinking immediately about, you know,

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Speaker 3: when when I was a kid, what were the movies

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Speaker 3: that were like about being a badass lady, you know,

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Speaker 3: being a powerful, strong lady, being one of the guys,

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Speaker 3: even though you're a lady. So this this came up,

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Speaker 3: and then now like as an adult watching it, I

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Speaker 3: have you know, the full layers, let's say, of like

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Speaker 3: perspectives and interpretations and analysis where you're just like, oh

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Speaker 3: my god, this is so so dark, darker than you know,

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Speaker 3: even maybe like a sort of substanceless feminism, you know, Patina.

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Speaker 3: Over all of this, it's even darker and more disappointing

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Speaker 3: and and sort of at root more violent than that.

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Speaker 2: It's totally it's very this is a movie with a

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Speaker 2: dark energy, putting it in that category. Yeah, and I do.

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Speaker 2: I feel like this movie did. I also hadn't seen

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Speaker 2: it before, but I felt like I did because it

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Speaker 2: was so It's so talked about. I mean, I unfortunately

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Speaker 2: one of the associations that I have with this is

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Speaker 2: like that g I Jane was name checked in the

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Speaker 2: slap incident. This is would remember that.

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Speaker 1: WHOA, I don't know, I don't remember that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I blame my fiance for remind I don't know

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Speaker 2: why men think about this lap so much, but they do.

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Speaker 2: But when Chris Rock was mocking Jada Pinkett Smith, he

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Speaker 2: called her GI Jane because she was bald. And all

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Speaker 2: that to say, for a movie that was not very

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Speaker 2: successful and pretty widely mocked in its time, it has

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Speaker 2: real cultural staying power. Yeah, and for like really bizarre reasons.

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Speaker 2: Because this movie is clearly clearly has an agenda, and

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Speaker 2: it is to promote US imperialism and to bring the

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Speaker 2: third wave feminist movement under the umbrella of US imperialism

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Speaker 2: and sell it back to women. And I think that

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Speaker 2: that is why we get the weird soundtrack that we do.

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Speaker 2: We're like, oh, and we've got your music, girl power.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many things that this movie does

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Speaker 2: that is very nefarious to that end, but it has

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Speaker 2: its cultural legacy. I feel like it's a little harder

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Speaker 2: to pin down. I'm glad it wasn't more successful. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't seem like it had a top gun effect, but

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Speaker 2: it still does demonstrable harm because we're still talking about it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know. I think it's also a little

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Speaker 3: bit about selling feminism to men too, like because it's like, actually,

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Speaker 3: they can be badasses and actually if the real goal

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Speaker 3: is like serving your country and shooting at the bad guys,

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Speaker 3: then women can do that too. Maybe, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's feminism for like sexist men who like the

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Speaker 1: type of feminism that they could get behind or digest.

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Speaker 2: Almost yes, I mean it's like so constantly dissonant, where

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Speaker 2: every other scene it's like it will start to make

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Speaker 2: a point but then fail to interrogate the system that

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Speaker 2: that point is being made inside of. So it's it's

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Speaker 2: totally meaningless all the way down to like the turf

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Speaker 2: Senator herself, like where you're like, yes, like she's she

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Speaker 2: is kind of like Nancy pelosiing her way through life.

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Speaker 2: This is a valid criticism. There are people who do this,

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Speaker 2: who weaponize identity politics against people like but then fails

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Speaker 2: to it. But they were like, and and you know

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Speaker 2: who really has it figured out? The Navy, And You're like,

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Speaker 2: what do you mean? What do you mean? Her being

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Speaker 2: the big bad is so weird, Like it's just like

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Speaker 2: I don't I don't know, I don't know what the

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Speaker 2: fuck there. I mean, I do know what the fuck

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Speaker 2: they're on about, and it's very frustrating, very uh.

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Speaker 1: I had also never seen this movie, but I remember

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Speaker 1: it being a big deal when it came out. It

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Speaker 1: was the same year as Titanic nineteen ninety seven.

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Speaker 2: So it never stood a chance.

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Speaker 1: So I was busy and with.

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Speaker 2: Making an impact.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, but this movie was marketed to all hell

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Speaker 1: I remember there was just like yeah, like you mentioned

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Speaker 1: Rihann in different images or scenes from it. That just

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Speaker 1: became part of the cultural zeitgeist. But I just I've

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Speaker 1: never been interested in war or military movies, so I

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Speaker 1: was like miss me with this, no thank you. So

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Speaker 1: I just watched it for the first time the other day,

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Speaker 1: and I don't really know what I was expecting, and

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Speaker 1: it kind of it sort of like was everything I

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Speaker 1: was expecting and nothing I was expecting at the same time.

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Speaker 1: It was a bizarre experience.

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Speaker 2: But and I feel like it Also we'll talk about

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Speaker 2: this later, but like where it's really Scott's filmography is

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Speaker 2: so fucking weird.

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Speaker 1: How can he make Thelma and Louise and this also

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Speaker 1: like I don't know, he was just like also not

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Speaker 1: that like film and Louise is a post child for

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Speaker 1: perfect feminism or anything, but but for.

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Speaker 2: Its time I mean. But also I mean it's just

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Speaker 2: like the movie he made immediately after Thoma and Louise

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Speaker 2: was fourteen ninety two Conquest of Paradise. So this guy

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Speaker 2: is a girl boss imperialist. Like I don't I which

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Speaker 2: those exist, but it's just I don't know, yeah, the

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Speaker 2: But then he also makes Gladiator, which is like anti

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Speaker 2: imperial he maybe just wants to work. I don't fucking

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Speaker 2: get it. I was. He also makes black Hawk Down,

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Speaker 2: which is right, also very like military copaganda. I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: look up if that one did, because this movie didn't

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Speaker 2: get the Pentagon Seal of Approval, but mostly for like

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Speaker 2: perverted reasons, where Ridley Scott was like, no, her superior

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Speaker 2: does have to look at her in the shower, and

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Speaker 2: you're like, that's the reason that that's.

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Speaker 3: The nipples are hard in uh in A lot of

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Speaker 3: that have to talk.

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Speaker 1: I'll talk about that later.

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Speaker 2: But she doesn't care. She's just she's just one of

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Speaker 2: the boys. She's just one of the boys. I want

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Speaker 2: to be treated just like everyone else badly. You're like,

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Speaker 2: what the fuck, it's wild.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back

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Speaker 1: to recap the.

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Speaker 4: Movie, and we're back.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So here's g I Jane nineteen ninety seven. So

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Speaker 1: we open on a hearing where this guy named Hayes,

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Speaker 1: who is vying to become Secretary of the US Navy,

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Speaker 1: is giving a testimony. But Senator de Haven, who's a

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Speaker 1: whoa whoa whoa woman.

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Speaker 2: She's not afraid to say it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: This senator interrogates Hayes about the abysmal treatment of women

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Speaker 1: in the military and how there are all these barriers

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Speaker 1: women aren't allowed to do, like a quarter of the

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Speaker 1: jobs in the military, and she wants full integration of

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Speaker 1: women in the US military, which is something the Department

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Speaker 1: of Defense will agree to if candidates who are women

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Speaker 1: are able to prove they measure up to the men

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Speaker 1: in a series of test cases, but the high ranking

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Speaker 1: men who want this program to fail select the Navy

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Speaker 1: Seals as the test case where women would have to

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Speaker 1: prove themselves because the Navy Seals training is famously, very

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Speaker 1: very difficult. It has a sixty percent dropout rate, meaning

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Speaker 1: most men can't even handle it, so there's no way

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Speaker 1: a woman will be able to.

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Speaker 3: How many times do they say this sixty percent dropout

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Speaker 3: rate in the movie explicitly? So many times that they

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Speaker 3: just throw out that stat to remind us, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's really hard.

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Speaker 1: It's so hard, it's.

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Speaker 3: So hard to do this.

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Speaker 2: The stakes are high.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Then we meet Lieutenant Jordan O'Neill played by Demi Moore.

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Speaker 1: Her name is not Jane, no shocking, Yeah, it is Jordan.

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Speaker 2: I had no idea. Why why not just call it?

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Speaker 2: I mean, the name Jordan was not sticking for me.

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Speaker 2: All my notes say Jane. Right.

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Speaker 1: So she works at the Naval Intelligence Center doing some

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Speaker 1: sort of strategist analyst whatever intelligence job, and we see

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Speaker 1: her mid mission. Seems like she's good at her job,

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Speaker 1: and of course she's surrounded by men who tell her

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Speaker 1: to know her place and not step out of line

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Speaker 1: or whatever. And she's being told this by someone who

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Speaker 1: It took me a while to figure this out because

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Speaker 1: all the men in this movie look the same to me, exactly.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, I was waiting for someone to say it.

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Speaker 2: You'rs like, I don't know who these guys are. I

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Speaker 2: was like, do we like that one? I don't, don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, But this man is a don't step

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Speaker 1: out a line. And it turns out out to be

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Speaker 1: her boyfriend.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they live together.

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Speaker 2: They live and not only did they live together, they

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Speaker 2: take they take baths together like they're twins.

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Speaker 1: It's twins. I guess maybe when you're a child.

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Speaker 2: Zoom for efficiency's sake, I wasn't talking about adult twins.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Senator de Haven is reviewing candidates to join this

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Speaker 1: test program, and she thinks this Jordan O'Neill has potential

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Speaker 1: because she's attractive and feminine.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, transphobia already entered into the movie in this scene.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and with photos too, which is absurd. Yeah. The

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Speaker 2: first the first person who is suggested, she's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: too strong, people are gonna like she drops chromosomes, Yeah, and.

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Speaker 1: Musom test on this person kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: And there's like this heavy indication that I'm like, well,

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Speaker 2: at least she turns out to be the villain, but

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Speaker 2: that's just it was like out of pocket. Immediately she

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Speaker 2: checks that, which this is a weird planted payoff. She

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Speaker 2: wants to make sure that Debi Moore is straight.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she says, I don't want you batting for the

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Speaker 3: other side.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's such a nineties dork loser like

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Speaker 2: way to phrase that, but yeah, I feel like she's

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Speaker 2: trying to say, like, well, are you normal, because we

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Speaker 2: need a normal person quote unquote to do this, and

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Speaker 2: then like all of the prejudices that come with what

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Speaker 2: she considers normal, we're safe to advance her career. I'm

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Speaker 2: not really sure what she's trying to do it.

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Speaker 1: But it's really unclear. I had to watch these scenes

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Speaker 1: a few times to try to figure it out, and

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Speaker 1: I'll try to explain it when we get there, but

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, what is going on here? Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: after they say a very like transphobe turfey remark, this

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Speaker 1: senator also sees another picture of a woman who is

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Speaker 1: tall and thick and muscular. She has kind of more

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Speaker 1: masculine features, and they mock her and they're like, is

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Speaker 1: this the face of someone you want on newsweek? She

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Speaker 1: looks like the wife of a Russian beat farmer, and

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Speaker 1: you're just like, holy shit, what.

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Speaker 2: A specifically hateful joke, Like who wrote that? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So anyway, they're reviewing all these candidates and they select

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Speaker 1: Jordan as the person they want to recruit into this

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Speaker 1: program on the condition that Jordan is not gay. And

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about that. Don't ask, don't tell of at all,

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Speaker 1: because like the senator is very explicitly asking. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: like was.

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Speaker 2: It that the whole Wasn't that the thing?

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Speaker 1: She's like, I know I'm supposed to not ask, but

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Speaker 1: I'm asking.

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Speaker 2: I'm asking, and you'd better tell, he says.

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Speaker 3: She says, I just want to. She says something like,

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Speaker 3: I just want to make sure you have a solvent

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Speaker 3: heterosexual at home. Yeah, like that you have a male.

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Speaker 1: Partner and they're so heterosexual that they take baths together.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're doing foot stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Cut we cut to Demi Moore's feet. I believe

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Speaker 2: a total of three times. One time when they're like,

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Speaker 2: your foot's all fucked up, and it cuts to the foot,

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Speaker 2: You're like, I hate to say the foot I didn't

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Speaker 2: need to see the.

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Speaker 1: Foot almost like a Tarantino movie in that way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, she does have a heterosexual boyfriend.

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Speaker 2: His name is Royce Solvent, heterosexual at home. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: don't worry, he hates her.

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Speaker 1: He is not supportive of her goals because she's interested

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Speaker 1: in this opportunity, but she doesn't want to be a

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Speaker 1: poster child for women's rights. She just wants the operational

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Speaker 1: experience so that she can advance her military career in

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Speaker 1: a way that she's not able to now with all

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Speaker 1: these sexist roadblocks.

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Speaker 2: So already we're not on board with the goal, right,

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Speaker 2: Like the goal is bad, the goal.

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Speaker 1: Is real bad. And Royce points out that the men

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Speaker 1: in the training program will make her life a living hell,

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Speaker 1: and he's not wrong, but he's also like, well, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to wait for you if you go off

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Speaker 1: to war. I expect you to wait for me, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do that for you. And then I

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Speaker 1: don't know if they break up or if he just

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Speaker 1: kind of like leaves in a huff, But that doesn't

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Speaker 1: really end well. Jordan arrives at a naval base in

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Speaker 1: Florida to begin her Navy seal training. She meets her

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Speaker 1: commanding officer, who's like, oh god, a woman.

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Speaker 2: I guess his reasons for hating women. He gives later

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Speaker 2: is very funny. It made me laugh where he's like

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Speaker 2: guy in a car, Like I was like, he's just

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Speaker 2: saying shit.

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Speaker 3: It's like that has nothing to do with you, and like,

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Speaker 3: would never inconvenience you, right.

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Speaker 1: He's also he says like, I need to hire a

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Speaker 1: guy in a collegist now to keep track of your

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Speaker 1: pap smears. And it's like she's only there for three months.

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Speaker 1: We don't need a bunch of pop smears during that time.

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Speaker 2: Like how many pap smears was she forced to get

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Speaker 2: during her time?

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Speaker 1: I don't know anyway, so he's not thrilled about her

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Speaker 1: being there. We also meet some of her fellow trainees,

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Speaker 1: who of course are all men, and they're talking about

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Speaker 1: how women can't do what we do. They're too weak

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Speaker 1: and they have too much body fat.

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Speaker 2: And one guy is named Flea, which is my cats,

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Speaker 2: which I found very distracting.

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Speaker 1: I wrote that in my notes, so I was like

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Speaker 1: Jamie's cat alert flee.

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Speaker 2: He flee would never do anything that.

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Speaker 1: The other flee does. He would never join the military.

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Speaker 2: It's a man of integrity exactly.

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Speaker 1: In addition to Flee, there are guys like McCool Wickwire Cortes,

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Speaker 1: Jim Cavizl is there playing a guy named Slovnik, and

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Speaker 1: they hate her immediately. Then she settles into her like

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Speaker 1: R and R quarters, which is just an empty room

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Speaker 1: because it's separated by gender and she's the only woman.

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Speaker 1: Then it's the first day of training. We meet Command

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Speaker 1: Master Chief Ergale played by Vigo Mortensen.

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Speaker 2: Short shorts Viego Mortenson shorts.

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Speaker 3: Are so short the entire film. Yeah, did he ask

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Speaker 3: for that, leggy Vigo Mortensen.

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Speaker 2: We don't see the legs on literally any other character,

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Speaker 2: including I think maybe Demi Moore a couple times, because

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Speaker 2: as we'll talk about, there's like, I guess they could

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Speaker 2: have done worse with hyper fixating on her body, but

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Speaker 2: they definitely don't miss the opportunity too.

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Speaker 1: Sure. Well, it seems like all of the whatever like

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Speaker 1: leaders of this training program are wearing the same short

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Speaker 1: shorts because there's a few of them and I only

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Speaker 1: notice one para legs same. Yeah, it seems like it

380
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Speaker 1: was all Vego. I was looking at all the legs.

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Speaker 1: But in any case, he's one tough sombitch. And everyone

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Speaker 1: starts the very vigorous and brutal training, obviously lots of

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Speaker 1: physical exercise. They're fighting over food, they're having to eat

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Speaker 1: it back out of the trash again. They're plunging into

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Speaker 1: freezing cold water. They have to write an essay about

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Speaker 1: why they love the United States Navy. The drill sergeants

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Speaker 1: are screaming and belittling them, and this is all just

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Speaker 1: in the first day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so many montages in this movie. It's exhausting, truly.

390
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Speaker 1: Gi Jordan is struggling, but she's not the worst at

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Speaker 1: this and she's very determined, even though a lot of

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Speaker 1: the men are cruel to her, especially this guy Cortes,

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Speaker 1: has a vendetta against her. But again she's very determined.

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Speaker 1: Though for those who are not determined to complete the training,

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Speaker 1: they have to ring this bell three times and it

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Speaker 1: signifies their resignation. So that's always kind of like looming

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Speaker 1: over everyone. Then there's this obstacle course, which they make

398
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Speaker 1: to be like a war zone with the officers shooting

399
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Speaker 1: at them. Yeah, but there are these like booster steps

400
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Speaker 1: for women and women only time advantages. But Jordan doesn't

401
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Speaker 1: want those. She wants to go through the course like

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Speaker 1: everyone else. So she goes to her commanding officer to

403
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Speaker 1: be like, your gendered double standards mean that I'm being

404
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Speaker 1: treated as an outsider, Like how am I supposed to

405
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Speaker 1: fit in and succeed? And then he pitches a fit.

406
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Speaker 1: This is where he's talking about pap smears and her perfume.

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Speaker 1: But then he agrees to hold only one standard for everyone.

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Speaker 1: Then we get the scene where she buzzes off all

409
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Speaker 1: of her hair, becoming the baldest woman. But I would

410
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Speaker 1: not say she's in charge, so it does not follow

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Speaker 1: the baldest woman in charge not.

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Speaker 2: Which is weird because I feel like it's one of

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Speaker 2: the movies I based that idea around despite have never

414
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Speaker 2: having seen it. But again you have. It is weird

415
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Speaker 2: how how similar there's like sequences in Mulan which comes

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Speaker 2: out the next year, similar hair chop and scene.

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Speaker 1: True. Yes, she also moves into the same like bunking

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Speaker 1: area as the men, and that guy Slavnik is disgusted

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Speaker 1: that she brought tampons with her.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, what would you like if she didn't have any?

421
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Speaker 2: Like what do you wonder to.

422
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Speaker 1: Just free bleed all over the place.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he screams multiple times, like as they're like, you know,

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Speaker 3: clear out, like you know, we gotta we gotta go

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Speaker 3: or whatever. He's like, you don't care about tampons. You

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Speaker 3: don't care about tampons, like fixated. Right, there's this is

427
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Speaker 3: somebody really really having a meltdown?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, as melodramatic as a lot of it is, I'm like, yeah,

429
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Speaker 2: I do believe that someone would do that. Yeah.

430
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Speaker 1: Men are very emotional.

431
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Speaker 2: They're huge drama queens.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

434
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Speaker 1: So then Hayes, the Navy secretary guy, gets wind that

435
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Speaker 1: a woman doing the Navy seal training program has gone public.

436
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: It was supposed to be a secret, private thing, but

437
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 1: it's gone public because there was this like investigative journalist

438
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: or someone taking pictures of Jordan during training. And so

439
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: the Navy Secretary is furious about this becoming public information,

440
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: and he wants her progress monitored and then also for

441
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: like background research to be done on her. Basically he

442
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 1: wants to see if they can find anything to discredit

443
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: her because this haze guy wants the program to fail.

444
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 1: But she's doing pretty good. She's made it through the

445
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: first week of training. She's getting the hang of things.

446
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: She's getting into peak physical shape, doing a lot of

447
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: you know, pull ups and push ups, but not wearing

448
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 1: a sports bra, which I don't know why you do that.

449
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 2: She wants to be just like everyone else. They're not

450
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 2: wearing a sports bra. Why should she?

451
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And she's starting to earn the respect of

452
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: some of the men, though others like Cortes and Slavnik

453
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: still have this like sexist rivalry, which.

454
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 2: Which is the sort of part of what's at the

455
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 2: core of her very feminist goal is to earn their

456
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 2: respective men.

457
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: Exactly. Yes.

458
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

459
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: Then there's a part where Jordan struggles to pull her

460
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: own body weight onto a raft that's speeding by, so

461
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: the master Chief questions if she's strong enough to be there.

462
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 1: And this is happening in a scene where she's taking

463
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: a shower and he just comes in and she's naked

464
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,360
Speaker 1: and they're both just like shrug.

465
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 3: This is the scene where Israel is mentioned. Yeah, drink

466
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 3: d we have an Israel mentioned.

467
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 2: That was like in a scene where you're already like

468
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 2: flat on your ass, like what am I watching? And

469
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,959
Speaker 2: then he brings up Israel and it cuts to naked

470
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 2: Demi Moore. I'm like, what the fuck is this? What

471
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 2: are we doing?

472
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: He's like, you know, the IOF is awesome actually, and

473
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: then he's like, and you're too weak to be here anyway?

474
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: Want to be in charge of boat number six?

475
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: Well, and she also manages to get a girl Boston

476
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 2: there too, where she's like is it also talking sort

477
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 2: of in reference to I guess America and Israel, where

478
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 2: she's like, well, how did you get your little thing?

479
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: How did you get your little your metal? And it's

480
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 2: like saving a woman is bad, saving a man is good.

481
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 2: It makes you think. I was like this, you're naked.

482
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 2: He's your boss and you're naked. Like yeah.

483
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: So it's at this part of the story that I

484
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: really started to worry that they're gonna wedge in some

485
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: like love story between the two of them, because it

486
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: sort of starts to kind of I think in a

487
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,959
Speaker 1: different movie, or maybe there was just another draft of

488
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: this script where like there was that Okay, I had.

489
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: A feeling, yeah, we'll talk about it. But there I

490
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 2: went through because I was like, why did this movie

491
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 2: not get Because there's I mean, the whole military entertainment

492
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,239
Speaker 2: complex usually comes down to weirdly like one guy, and

493
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: it was one guy for like thirty five years, who

494
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 2: would be the one to decide if you are going

495
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: to get the full force support of the American military

496
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 2: to make your shitty movie. And this one guy ended

497
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: up saying no and not signing off on g Jane.

498
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 2: And one of one of the original reasons that Ridley

499
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 2: Scott did agree to change was that she was originally

500
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: dating her superior in the Navy, which I'm assuming would

501
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 2: have been the Vigo Mortenson character. So that might just

502
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 2: be left over from that, I'm not sure.

503
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm like, why is this scene here where

504
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: he's like, it's not overtly sexualized, but she isn't the shower,

505
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: but he is kind of like looking her up and

506
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: down and she is naked and he's not, and so

507
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: it's very bizarre and.

508
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 3: They get very close to face to face. Yeah, it

509
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 3: is introducing sexual tension here, and it feels like very

510
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 3: overtly we're supposed to think Demi Moore is hot, Demi

511
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 3: Moore is sexy, you know.

512
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so the movie doesn't culminate in any kind

513
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: of love story between them, but it feels like it

514
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: was like starting to drop some hints anyway. Then there's

515
00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: this like simulation mission thing. It's I'm like Capture the Flag,

516
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: but like military Industrial Complex style, where Jordan leads her team.

517
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: She's delegating tasks, but Cortes and Slovnik refuse to take

518
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: orders from her because she's a woman, and they get

519
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: themselves and everyone else on the team captured. The master

520
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: Chief beats the shit out of Jordan. He acts like

521
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: he might rape.

522
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 3: Her in front of everybody.

523
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, in front of everybody, because by their logic, this

524
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: is what she quote unquote wanted for them to not

525
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: go easy on her just because she's a woman, But

526
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: she doesn't give up any information. Then she fights back

527
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: and kicks the shit out of the master Chief and

528
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: this is when she.

529
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 2: Goes suck my deck.

530
00:30:54,880 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: And now he respects her and so her other fellow

531
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: trainees enough to invite her out for a drink when

532
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: they have some R and R time.

533
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 2: Which also it's so frustrating, where like her sort of

534
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 2: one pal who is always like she's whatever, the feminism

535
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 2: nurse or whatever, but she like this is another sort

536
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 2: of decisive moment for the debianmore character where she's like

537
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 2: she tells the other girls She's like, I can't hang out.

538
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 2: The boys finally invited me. I'm like, god, you suck,

539
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 2: you suck.

540
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, So she goes to hang out and drink with

541
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: the guys, but she also goes on the like little

542
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: beach picnic outing with the women at the training center,

543
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:51,479
Speaker 1: who I think are mostly medics, and a reporter is

544
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: there taking more secret photos of the women, and the

545
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: high ranking men see the photos and pull Jordan aside

546
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: and say it looks like you were fraternizing with other

547
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: women in a gay way, and Jordan is like, no,

548
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: this is just women hanging out. But the men want

549
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: to pull her out of training and give her a

550
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: desk job, basically demote her, I think. And she's enraged

551
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: and she rings that bell that signals that you want

552
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: to quit the Navy seal training, and she leaves and

553
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: goes back home. Her boyfriend Royce is there. They reconcile

554
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: and he shows her some reports and letters and stuff,

555
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: and it seems like Senator de Haven, the woman who

556
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: was originally advocating for Jordan, is the one who hired

557
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: the photographer to sabotage Jordan's training.

558
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it turns out she's a cowardly bitchous.

559
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 2: She really is.

560
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: And these are the reasons that I only very vaguely

561
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: understand and can barely articulate. But it's something like she

562
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: I think she's a senator in Texas and there are

563
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: these different military bases in Texas that are in danger

564
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: of being shut down. So she kind of like trades,

565
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: does some kind of trade with someone to prevent the

566
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: basis from being shut down in exchange for kind of

567
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: selling out Jordan, I think, is what was happening, right.

568
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like she's gonna lose reelection if these bases get

569
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 3: shut down, like the voters right will turn against her

570
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 3: or something. And so with this threat looming, she saves

571
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 3: the bases over saving Jordan, right.

572
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 2: Right, which of course a senator would do, right. But

573
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 2: it's like this is where like the ultimate dissonance comes

574
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: in where she's like, no, that I need to be

575
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 2: a Navy seal, and it's like, lady, you don't. You

576
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: do not need to be a Navy There is a

577
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 2: funny like there's like a repeated it's just like a

578
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 2: bad writing thing. But the Anne Bancroft character this seed

579
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 2: says a few different times she's like, well if you

580
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 2: think you're going to change my mind, then pull up

581
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 2: a chair, or like go to sleep, or like you're

582
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 2: going to be here for a long time.

583
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 3: Past your time.

584
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 2: Yes, I was like, what do you okay?

585
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: Whatever, So Jordan threatens to expose the senator for being

586
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: a lying piece of shit. I guess unless de Haven

587
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: gets Jordan back into the Navy Seals training program. Cut

588
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: to Jordan returns to complete her training and she and

589
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: the others are about to do I think this is

590
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: sort of like their last thing and operational readiness exercise

591
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: in the Mediterranean Sea. But then they get called to

592
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: go on a real life military mission in Libya.

593
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, like, and they're not done with training yet, and

594
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 3: they're being asked like, okay, no, you got to do

595
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 3: Navy Seal mission right now? Yes, And I've seeing how

596
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,320
Speaker 3: fucked up these people are, right right, what an amateur

597
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 3: show this is.

598
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't think they're ready, and the mission

599
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: is also vague, but I think they have to do

600
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: some sort of rescue or extraction thing. I'm guessing rescuing

601
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: some American soldiers in Libya. And we'll talk about the

602
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: way the country and Libyan characters are portrayed. But yeah,

603
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: basically there's you know, a big third act battle. The

604
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: Master Chief needs to be saved and Jordan kind of

605
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: takes charge. She's giving orders, and then she ultimately gets

606
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: the Master Chief to safety. They make it out, and

607
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: they return to the US, where Jordan officially makes it

608
00:35:55,080 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: into the Navy Seals after successfully completing her training. The

609
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: end y we so let's take another quick break and

610
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:23,959
Speaker 1: we'll come back to discuss, and we're back where to begin, Oh,

611
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: Ash Rhannon, is anything jumping to you?

612
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 3: You know, it really is hard to choose. Is it

613
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 3: the racism, the orientalism? Is it? You know that this

614
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 3: really military propaganda. Is it the dissonant and illogical, superficial feminism,

615
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 3: it's it's it's they're so difficult.

616
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 2: You know.

617
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 3: I think something that stuck with me throughout every scene

618
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 3: in which Jordan is insulted or even like sabotaged, you

619
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 3: know her, the fellow Navy Sealed trainees, you know, actively

620
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 3: try to sabotage her and make her look bad every time,

621
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 3: even and I think this culminates in the scenes where

622
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 3: they're doing this sear training, the capture of the flag exercise. Right,

623
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 3: It really culminates in this in this part where Vigo

624
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 3: Mortensen physically assault her. I mean, it's a really it's

625
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 3: actually like difficult to watch. It's like she's actually getting

626
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 3: like truly truly violently beat up, and then he acts

627
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 3: like he's about to sexually assault her in front of everybody.

628
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 3: There's blood, like all of this stuff. What is sticking

629
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 3: with me throughout every single one of these horrifically sexist

630
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 3: examples is not that anybody like learns a true lesson

631
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 3: about sexism or that that kind of overt sexism is wrong.

632
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 3: It's that Jordan overcomes it. And actually, you know, master

633
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 3: Chief Vigo Morten said, did it all for the right reason,

634
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 3: so that she could prove herself, so that the team

635
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 3: will get behind her. You know. Afterwards he tells an officer,

636
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 3: another officer who says like, hey, I think you kind

637
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 3: of went too far on that. He tells an officer,

638
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 3: you don't get it. She isn't the problem we are,

639
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 3: and I did right, like, I did it for all

640
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 3: the right reasons. And this is the entire movie. It's

641
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 3: really sick, yeah.

642
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: Right, and it's they don't, like you said, no one

643
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: really learns anything. It's just that she has sort of

644
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: assimilated into man behavior quote unquote yes, which is the

645
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: problem with any sort of girl Boss feminism where it's like,

646
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: women can uphold imperial institutions too, women can commit war

647
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: crimes too, and that's the logic of the movie.

648
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 2: I feel like this movie even takes out a step

649
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,320
Speaker 2: further where, like I like, in your prescriptive girl Boss narrative,

650
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, yes, women can commit horrific atrocities, women

651
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: can be billionaires, women can do you know, A, B

652
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 2: and C. But this one is also predicated to the

653
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:12,240
Speaker 2: fact that like, like, her whole mission is to be

654
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 2: treated like a man likes it's yeah, you know, Sheryl

655
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 2: Sandberg shit where I feel like it's even worse where

656
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 2: I feel in some girl Boss narratives it's like, oh,

657
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,919
Speaker 2: and now the guns are pink or whatever the fuck

658
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 2: She's like, she's not even asking for the gun to

659
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 2: be pink, like she's She's like, I want to do

660
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 2: war crimes just like everyone else. I she is so

661
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 2: vested in not questioning the system she's participating in to

662
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 2: a kind of scary degree. She has no question. Yes,

663
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 2: her mission is to be completely swallowed whole by it.

664
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, let me prove it to you. I can do

665
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 3: I can do war crimes. I'm actually really good at it.

666
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 3: If you would just let me, you just beat me

667
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 3: up like everybody else.

668
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't care about feminism. I'm not trying to

669
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: be some poster child for women's rights. I just want

670
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: to be a bloodthirsty war.

671
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 2: Criminal, right, And that's I do think it's like an

672
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 2: interesting idea, not in the scope of this movie at all.

673
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 2: It is an interesting idea to not want to be

674
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 2: the poster child for something. I think that that is

675
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 2: like an interesting narrative tension. But in the context of

676
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:25,280
Speaker 2: this movie, it makes her an even more confusing character because,

677
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 2: like I get to the extent that she doesn't want

678
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 2: to be a poster child. She doesn't want the media

679
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 2: to hyper fixate on her. That's fair, right, Like she

680
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 2: doesn't want all these things to happen, But like she

681
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 2: doesn't even take issue with the sexism that she does experience,

682
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 2: Like she gets annoyed when like the I mean in

683
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 2: the beginning where the I don't know what the fucking

684
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 2: title is, but the first guy she meets before Vigo Mortensen,

685
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 2: lays out sort of like, Okay, here is what we're

686
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 2: going to do to sort of protect you from what

687
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 2: is almost certain to be a very hostile group of

688
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 2: people towards you. Yeah, and she's like, no, I don't

689
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 2: want to be like, which is just sending what I mean.

690
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 2: This expands so much because like, obviously there is real

691
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 2: life misogyny and homophobia in the military which is shown here,

692
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 2: but it has no interest in questioning those policies. It's

693
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 2: just questioning it in regards to this one character who's like,

694
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 2: I don't care about that. So what is this movie

695
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 2: even trying to accomplish. Yeah, it feels like it's just

696
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 2: trying to not only enlist women into the American imperial project,

697
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 2: it's also saying be quiet about the like about the

698
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 2: gender discrimination you've heard about? Shut up, Like if you

699
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 2: were a real soldier, you wouldn't quote unquote complain about it.

700
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, and any even minuscule nod to like, oh, there

701
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 3: might be a systemic problem here. For example, when Vigo

702
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 3: Mortensen after almost killing me more like we're supposed to

703
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 3: understand right by physical assault in front of people. After

704
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 3: he does this, and he says the thing about like

705
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 3: she isn't the problem we are and this is why,

706
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 3: this is why I did this, right saying we are

707
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 3: if he's referring to like whatever, the US military or

708
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 3: something like, there's no there's no then like next step,

709
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 3: which is like, okay, if this is if you're saying

710
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 3: this is a systemic problem here, there's no next step

711
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 3: of like, oh, how might we fix that? The solution

712
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 3: is like again, honorably, I beat her up in front

713
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 3: of people, right, Like.

714
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,280
Speaker 2: It's it's not even like there's not even an interest

715
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 2: in like accomplishing a very like what also would have

716
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 2: been a bullshit like centrist propaganda to this movie. Ye, yeah,

717
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 2: it can't even do that because the movie also hates

718
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 2: their Nancy Pelosi character. So it's like, I don't know

719
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 2: what to do with that, Like, I mean, it's a

720
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 2: it's a right wing movie totally.

721
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

722
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,879
Speaker 1: I mean, like it seems to be saying, well, there's

723
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: sexism everywhere, so of course there's going to be sexism

724
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: in the military, but the movie is like otherwise completely

725
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: uncritical of any systemic issues within the military and the

726
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: military itself, which is a tool to uphold US imperialism.

727
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 3: And do lots of violence, including sexist violence. All over

728
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 3: the world, you know.

729
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 2: For sure.

730
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: And it's basically just saying like, yeah, the military is

731
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: is awesome and women should want to be a part

732
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,720
Speaker 1: of it. And that type of jingoism is still being

733
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 1: used today, obviously not only to recruit for the military,

734
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:42,760
Speaker 1: but to recruit ICE agents. I've seen people likening the

735
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: signing bonus and the relatively high salaries for ICE agents,

736
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 1: likening that to incentives the military has historically offered to

737
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 1: encourage people to enlist.

738
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 2: So and the fact that the Viga Mortensen character, you know,

739
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 2: references the IDF in the scope of by far the

740
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 2: darkest scene in the movie to be there, and it's

741
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 2: a hard contest because he also almost kills her. I

742
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 2: mean that is used in IDF logic all the time,

743
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 2: is that like, we love women and women are a

744
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 2: part of it. When it's conscripting to a genocide. It's

745
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 2: just I don't know. I was so shocked at how

746
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 2: how this movie wouldn't even get to I guess the

747
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 2: very low nineteen nineties girl boss feminism. It doesn't even

748
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 2: like clear that.

749
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: No, it sure doesn't. And then you have the whole

750
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 1: third act of the movie, which is this mission in Libya,

751
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:50,439
Speaker 1: where again unclear exactly what they're doing. It says they're

752
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 1: doing an extraction thing, but I don't think we ever see.

753
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 2: That, which based on the documents, not to be a spy,

754
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 2: but but based on the documents that I was saying,

755
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,800
Speaker 2: that is very, very intentional, and I think that reminds

756
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,800
Speaker 2: me of like a lot of when the American military

757
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 2: is involved in a movie. They never want to draw

758
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,720
Speaker 2: your attention to exactly what is being done in the movie.

759
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 2: That's why in the most recent I didn't see it,

760
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 2: but in like the Top Gun reboot, they're fighting a

761
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 2: country that doesn't even exist, unnamed.

762
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, so vague. Yeah, I remember that about that.

763
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 2: So that's very much a part of the playbook where

764
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 2: they're like, Okay, we're willing to name the country that

765
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 2: we are killing civilians in, but we don't want to

766
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 2: say exactly what we're doing or what the goal is

767
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 2: because you don't want to think about that too hard

768
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 2: because it's violent. Yeah.

769
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 3: A couple mentions of the word plutonium, right, like satellite cells.

770
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 3: It is like something extraction, right, and it's just supposed

771
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 3: to be like it's it is shoving. It is shoving.

772
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 3: Imperial violence down your throat, but to such a vagueness

773
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 3: that like you are assumed to be on their side anyway, right,

774
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 3: Like you're this is acceptable because surely what's going on

775
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 3: in Libya is bad and those are bad guys doing it, right,

776
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 3: Like that's there's this baseline assumption not criticized or not

777
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 3: like engaged.

778
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 2: At all to right, like it's just playing on prejudices.

779
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 2: They're assuming the audience already has.

780
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: Right the idea that like, well, we're in an Arab country,

781
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 1: so of course it's full of terrorists and those people's

782
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: lives are expendable, and the Navy has carte blanche to

783
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: shoot and kill whoever because they are the enemy. And

784
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: even before Libya gets mentioned, someone says like, oh, we're

785
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: getting called to this mission where Iran Iraq and it's

786
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 1: like no, another one, another enemy country, quote unquote. So

787
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: and then just like the way the country of Libya

788
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: is portrayed, the score that starts playing once where.

789
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 3: In Libya stereotypical like arrul, which is like a Arab

790
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 3: Middle Eastern ancient kind of wind is instrument, is the score.

791
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 3: So you're like, oh, they're in Arabia, yep, they're landing

792
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 3: on the beach in Arabia.

793
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,919
Speaker 2: Right, Like, truly, at every level this movie is trying

794
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 2: to play on American prejudices.

795
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, the way they make Libya look like this dusty barren,

796
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: decrepit wasteland, the brown filter they put on those scenes

797
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: in post production that makes everything just look dusty and dirty.

798
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: The way the people of Libya are presented, they're hostile,

799
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:36,399
Speaker 1: They're needlessly violent, Like forget that the US Navy has

800
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 1: just invaded this country for unclear reasons and are killing

801
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 1: anyone they see and.

802
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 2: Will continue to for decades after.

803
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so just absolutely horrific.

804
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 2: And I think that like another I honestly do not

805
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 2: know the name of this character because I couldn't keep

806
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 2: track of all the boy names. But there is exactly

807
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 2: one black character who we get to know. This is

808
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 2: a very very very ugly play to make.

809
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: His name is mcool.

810
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:12,320
Speaker 2: McCool. All the names are so silly, okay, so McCool. Also,

811
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,879
Speaker 2: he has to give this speech while actively treading water,

812
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 2: which is like that doesn't seem fair to that actor,

813
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 2: but whatever. So that where, you know, and it's done

814
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 2: in this very nineties way where it's equating the struggle

815
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 2: of black soldiers with the struggle of women's soldiers as

816
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 2: if it's an identical struggle. But the only black soldier

817
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 2: we get to know is mcool apparently, and he references

818
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 2: very real prejudice in the American military against black people,

819
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 2: which is a very you know, it's an important thing

820
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 2: to talk about, like it is a very valid subject,

821
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 2: but it's brought up for all the wrong reasons. It's

822
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 2: brought up to say, like, oh, no, you know, g

823
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 2: I Jane, like, I totally understand your struggle, like because

824
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 2: my grandfather was treated this horrible way by Themerican military,

825
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 2: and then they proceed to push back on that system

826
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 2: not at all, like and especially in a movie that

827
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 2: is racist in general, that it feels like Ridley Scott

828
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 2: is like or the writers of this movie, sorry he

829
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:21,760
Speaker 2: didn't write this, David Twohea and Danielle Alexandra girl Boss

830
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 2: what the fuck? But they you know, they're they're basically

831
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 2: weaponizing this true fact about how racist the American military

832
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,959
Speaker 2: is to excuse all the other racism that the movie

833
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 2: is guilty of perpetrating. And also that's the only thing

834
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,800
Speaker 2: we ever learned about McCool, we'd ever guess. Yeah, he

835
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 2: speaks in other scenes, like, I think all the guys

836
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 2: sort of with the exception of like the bully guy

837
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 2: and Viga Mortenson, they're all like about the same amount

838
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 2: of active in the scene, but the fact that they

839
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 2: go out of their way to be like, Oh, our

840
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 2: one black character, he and his family have experienced racism

841
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 2: and that's all we're gonna tell you.

842
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 1: And that's what defines him. Yeah. Yeah, because you have

843
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: like the Jim Cavizo character who's obsessed with tampons being

844
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: near him.

845
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the one thing we learn about him.

846
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, Cortes Cortez is the guy who like sabotages her

847
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: and like doesn't help her over the wall. And then

848
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: Vigle Mortensen sees that and he's like, well, I better

849
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 1: combat this sexism by threatening to rape a woman in

850
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 1: front of everyone.

851
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, what you're never gonna get in this movie.

852
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 3: And look, I don't expect Hollywood to give this kind

853
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,280
Speaker 3: of analysis to us. I'm not saying right in nineteen

854
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 3: ninety seven that Hollywood and Demi Moore we're gonna make

855
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 3: the kind of movie I'm about to describe. But you

856
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 3: never get from this movie that the US military is

857
00:50:52,280 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 3: inherently by design racist, sexist, transphobic, because it is an

858
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 3: expression of capitalism by imperialism. Right, these things are not

859
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 3: designed to be inclusive or diverse, right like this is,

860
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 3: this is this is a structure and a system that

861
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 3: truly is not reformable, Jamie, you said it earlier, like

862
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 3: this is a right wing movie, right like this is

863
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 3: and and and the military, the US military is like

864
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 3: a right wing conception, you know, a structure, and so yeah,

865
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 3: you're you're never gonna get that. You're gonna get. What

866
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 3: you're gonna get from this movie is a peak inside

867
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 3: quite a glamorized individual experiences of individual discrimination.

868
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 4: You know.

869
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 3: But but but not like, oh, you know, the US

870
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 3: military was racist during World War Two. It's still racist.

871
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 3: It's still super sexist, and like wonder, wonder what's going

872
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 3: on there, you know, But.

873
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, it's the military we've got. Yeah,

874
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 2: and so I guess in a way it's really cool.

875
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:08,760
Speaker 3: And at the end of the day they're shooting Arabs,

876
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 3: so that's great. You know.

877
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 2: That is like very much what the third act is

878
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 2: telling yeaheah, yeah, it's this movie is evil. Super Dark

879
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 2: has an evil and there's there's so much so I

880
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 2: wanted to We talked about this in a couple of

881
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 2: different episodes. I know we definitely talked about it in

882
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 2: our Top Gun episode. I believe we also talked about

883
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 2: it way back in the day in our Independence Day

884
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 2: episode and also Transformers because the American government, uh, the

885
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 2: American military was involved in the making of all of

886
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 2: these movies. Now, I mean I I did not finish it,

887
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 2: but I am bravely in the middle of watching a

888
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 2: documentary called Operation Hollywood, how the Pentagon shapes and censors movies.

889
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,720
Speaker 2: It's f I've heard of this, Yeah, it's on YouTube

890
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:58,799
Speaker 2: for free. It's from It's a little dated because it's

891
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 2: from I think it's from like the early to mid

892
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 2: two thousands, but it is a sort of breakdown of

893
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 2: exactly how this system works. So for listeners who haven't

894
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 2: heard of those other episodes or haven't heard us talk

895
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 2: about it in a while, Basically, there is a specific

896
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 2: job that is it's a guy named phil Essentially for

897
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 2: a long time at this time, it was a guy

898
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 2: named Philip Strubb who is the DoD's film liaison. Is

899
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,919
Speaker 2: the name of the title, and so from nineteen eighty

900
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 2: nine to twenty eighteen. This was a job that basically

901
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 2: this guy would go over scripts that wanted to have

902
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:44,359
Speaker 2: either bases or tanks, weapons, whatever it is, lent out

903
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 2: to them at a lower rate in exchange for reflecting

904
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 2: the American military in a positive way. It's a propaganda unit, right,

905
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 2: And to be clear, obviously there was a ton of

906
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 2: military propaganda in cinema, like going back to its very existence,

907
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 2: but it took them till the eighties to make this unit,

908
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:05,879
Speaker 2: and it is in direct response to Top Gun. Top

909
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 2: Gun came out in eighty six and famously there was

910
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 2: a huge enlistment spike in response to its popularity, and

911
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 2: that was when the DoD I guess realized, well, if

912
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 2: this is going to be a trend in movies, we

913
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 2: want to be directly involved with it. And so that

914
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 2: is why this department was created. And it really does

915
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 2: seem to just be this guy. So every movie from

916
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 2: eighty nine to twenty eighteen is going through him. Now

917
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:36,839
Speaker 2: it goes through this guy named David Evans. Very very

918
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 2: little is known about these guys by design, I am sure,

919
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 2: but there is there were a and again I cannot

920
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 2: vouch for this website, but a website called spy culture

921
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 2: dot com. Pretty cool sounds git they in Spy Culture Nature.

922
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 2: They did leak some documents. This is from a couple

923
00:54:56,600 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 2: of years ago how the Pentagon rewrote Gi Jane and

924
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 2: there are twenty five pages of documents that they were

925
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,919
Speaker 2: able to access that were between the office of Ridley

926
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:11,760
Speaker 2: Scott and Philip Strubb about this movie and with specificity

927
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 2: what exactly the DoD wanted changed about this movie and

928
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 2: what Ridley Scott's response is, what the concessions he did

929
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 2: make and the concessions that he didn't. And so the

930
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 2: long and short of it is that this movie was

931
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 2: not signed off by the DoD explicitly because it showed

932
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:34,720
Speaker 2: that there's sexism in the Navy, and so they were like, sorry,

933
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 2: mister Scott, the premise is flawed. The Navy isn't sexist.

934
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:40,439
Speaker 1: There's no sexism here.

935
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,800
Speaker 2: But that does not mean that Ridley Scott did not

936
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 2: make significant concessions to this. So I'm just going to

937
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 2: read from this article what were the Pentagon's objections. They

938
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 2: didn't have any issue with the basic plot of a

939
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 2: woman going through special Forces training, but they did have

940
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 2: a problem with almost everything else. One problem was that

941
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 2: they didn't want the training identified as being for the

942
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:04,720
Speaker 2: Navy Seals, but wanted Scott to invent a fictional special

943
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 2: unit that O'Neill was trying to get into. So again

944
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 2: that trend of like, let's not talk about exactly what

945
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 2: we're doing because then people might think about it. They

946
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:16,800
Speaker 2: didn't like O'Neill's boyfriend being her superior, so that was changed.

947
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 2: A scene between the CEO at the training base and

948
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 2: O'Neil was considered too sexist, but Scott didn't want to

949
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,959
Speaker 2: change that. O'Neill shaving her head was considered out of line,

950
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 2: and Scott replied can be negotiated, which I don't think

951
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 2: it was. But the scene where the chief confronts O'Neil

952
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 2: while she's naked and having a shower quote presents privacy

953
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 2: policy issues quote unquote, which Scott agreed to change, which

954
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 2: he didn't. A scene where a seal urinates in a

955
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 2: foxhole in front of O'Neil had the DoD conceding that

956
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,919
Speaker 2: it addressed quote issues related to the presence of women

957
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 2: in frontline combat roles unquote, but quote carries no benefit

958
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 2: to the US Navy unquote. They also didn't like the

959
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 2: sequence depicting survival, evasion, resistance escape training, which sees the

960
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 2: masters chief imprisoning, waterboarding and beating up trainees, including the protagonist.

961
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 3: So that's it. That's that's it movie.

962
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:14,320
Speaker 2: So those are the reasons why the DD did not

963
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 2: ultimately sign off on this movie. Because one of the

964
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 2: heroes waterboards another hero, however, that does not mean that significant.

965
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 2: So I guess the question is what is the agenda

966
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 2: of this movie if not to get the support of

967
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 2: the DoD, because it doesn't and Redley Scott does not

968
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 2: end up like really getting the what I don't know

969
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 2: exactly what the benefits are, but the ostensible benefits you

970
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 2: would get. So what the fuck is this movie trying

971
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 2: to do? Like it's baffling right right.

972
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 1: If it's not gonna bother to bend over backwards to

973
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 1: get the Seal of approval from the Department of Defense,

974
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 1: then but it's still like, but the military is awesome,

975
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: and like, let's make this movie basically as recruitment propaganda

976
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: to specifically encourage women question mark to join.

977
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 2: The military, join the military, and never ask a question like.

978
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, the dissonance here the it's really it's

979
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:24,919
Speaker 3: sort of nonsensical in a lot of ways, plot wise, dialogue,

980
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 3: and then the and then the kind of like politics

981
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 3: of it are are are really nonsensical as well. You know,

982
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 3: what what what was released Scott's goal? What are what

983
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 3: were the what are the goals of the writers here?

984
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 3: What's what's Demi Moore's goal in being in being in this?

985
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 3: You know, it's like a lot of I think there's

986
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 3: a lot to unpack there.

987
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 2: I can I know a little bit about that because

988
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 2: I did not remember. I don't know, I just did

989
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 2: not remember the like cultural conversation around this movie. But

990
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 2: so apparently this was Demi Moore at a time in

991
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 2: her career where like she was sort of waning in popularity.

992
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 2: She had just starred in a huge box office bomb

993
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 2: called Strip.

994
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 1: Tease, which was notorious for being a horrible movie and

995
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 1: people hated her performance, and.

996
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 2: So she was already I mean, and this is this

997
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 2: is sort of, I guess, unfortunately, a more kind of

998
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 2: classic tale of how actresses are disposable, and then to

999
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 2: me more making the choice to star in a US

1000
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:38,439
Speaker 2: imperialist narrative to try to undo that and rescue her career.

1001
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 2: I think it seems like what her motivation here was

1002
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 2: was to kind of dig herself out of the hole

1003
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 2: that she'd been thrown into by strip teas and try

1004
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 2: to remarket herself as an action star by doing this.

1005
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 2: But by all accounts, it didn't work. And it seems

1006
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 2: it seems like, I mean, it's I don't like, this

1007
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 2: movie is fucking horrible and evil, and people were very

1008
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 2: like weirdly sexist to Demi Moore for having been in it,

1009
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 2: Like they blamed the movie sucking wholly on her. She

1010
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 2: like won a Razzie, which feels like an over correction

1011
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 2: because it's like, there's so many issues with this movie.

1012
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 2: I wouldn't put her performance in the top ten of

1013
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 2: those issues are agree.

1014
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 3: I actually, okay, you know, let's take the script and

1015
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 3: the and the movie and and everything for what it is.

1016
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 3: Her acting is not.

1017
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:32,680
Speaker 1: It's not the problem.

1018
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 3: It's not the problem. Yeah, it's not the problem that

1019
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 3: makes this movie land the way it lands, you know.

1020
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 2: Right, And she's and like, so it's just from what

1021
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:43,480
Speaker 2: I can tell, I mean that she she was just

1022
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 2: pretty like squarely escapegoaded for this movie's unpopularity, even though

1023
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 2: I will say at the time there were reviews of

1024
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 2: this movie that were like, uh, this movie is too

1025
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 2: jiggoistic for me to engage with. So even in the nineties,

1026
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 2: like people, we're not just taking their slop, which was

1027
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 2: I don't know. I guess I was pleasantly surprised that

1028
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 2: not everyone was just taking the slap. But then you

1029
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 2: get into like, I don't know Ridley Scott. I don't know.

1030
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 2: He's made four thousand movies, he's five hundred years old,

1031
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 2: so can we get to the bottom of what his

1032
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 2: whole deal is? Probably not. He also made huse of Gucci,

1033
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:21,040
Speaker 2: which I forgot.

1034
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, he directed that.

1035
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 3: That's hilarious.

1036
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 2: Wow, he made the last dool at a house of Gucci. Savior.

1037
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 2: He's just an enigma, an enigma. He's booked and busy.

1038
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 2: He'll do anything. But he I mean his other I mean,

1039
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 2: you could argue his most famous characters he directed the

1040
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 2: first Blade Runner, but he also I mean, his most

1041
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:44,240
Speaker 2: famous character you could say is Ellen Ripley.

1042
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, I would, it's probably his I would agree

1043
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 1: with him.

1044
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 2: And she is also in the American military, so like

1045
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 2: he like.

1046
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:57,919
Speaker 3: There's a soft spot in Ridley Scott's heart for us

1047
01:01:58,040 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 3: military story.

1048
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, like I don't know, and there has been

1049
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 2: a lot made of over the years of like wow,

1050
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 2: Ridley Scott for a male o tour has women as

1051
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 2: his protagonists pretty often, which is true. I have not

1052
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 2: seen all of his movies, but they're you know, examples

1053
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 2: obviously Alien Thelma and Louise Prometheus, which I didn't see

1054
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 2: Gi Jane. I know that the last duel centers around

1055
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 2: a woman house of Gucci. Looks they're not all good,

1056
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 2: but it does happen with some frequency. But it is always,

1057
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:37,920
Speaker 2: i think, without fail, a white woman. And also he

1058
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 2: doesn't write the scripts, so he's sort of just a

1059
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:43,600
Speaker 2: gun for hire. Clearly he has an interest in this,

1060
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 2: but it's a very particular kind of woman he has

1061
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 2: interest in. Yeah.

1062
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 3: Can I bring up a very short exchange in Gi

1063
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 3: Jane which I think almost completely encapsulates the nonsensical politics

1064
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 3: of this movie. Please, When Jordan has survived the torture session,

1065
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 3: training session, Capture the Flag, when she's survived it and

1066
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 3: she's at the bar with the guys, she's done it,

1067
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 3: She's she's in you know, like this is this is

1068
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:20,720
Speaker 3: almost like a scene with a victory lap where she's

1069
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 3: finally in.

1070
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 2: The boys, you're gonna say, she goes to the bathroom.

1071
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 3: Is this right, Jamie, Yep, she goes to the bathroom.

1072
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 3: Oh and and after all of this has happened to her,

1073
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 3: she's very physically injured her face, like, she has black eyes,

1074
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:40,439
Speaker 3: she has a huge like red mark on the side

1075
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 3: of her face. She's obviously been beat up. Right, she

1076
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 3: goes to the bathroom. She's in the women's restroom. She's

1077
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 3: at the sink, and another woman is in there who

1078
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 3: walks past her and said, after you know, looking at

1079
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 3: her and noticing what her face looks like, she walks

1080
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 3: past her and she says, ain't really my business, but

1081
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 3: I say, leave the bastard, which is like, so this

1082
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 3: woman has assumed that Demi Moore's character is in a

1083
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:11,240
Speaker 3: situation of like intimate partner violence domestic violence, right, and

1084
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 3: that like her partner, a man has beat her up,

1085
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 3: and Demi Moore g Jane Jordan O'Neill turns and gives

1086
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:23,080
Speaker 3: like a little bit of a smirk, like doesn't doesn't

1087
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 3: say anything in response. The woman leaves the bathroom, but

1088
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:28,439
Speaker 3: she kind of smirks, and I think, like, what we're

1089
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 3: supposed to interpret is like, oh, it wasn't that she's

1090
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 3: actually succeeded at something really big and accomplished something important,

1091
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 3: but like, actually, what did happen was that she was

1092
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 3: beat up by a man?

1093
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 2: Yes, you know what I mean.

1094
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 3: Yes, she was physically assaulted by men.

1095
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 1: She is in an abusive relationship, yes, in which a

1096
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 1: lot of people would say she should leave.

1097
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1098
01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 3: So it's so it's so wild, it really is.

1099
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:01,439
Speaker 2: Well like and that yeah, and that lady is made

1100
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:05,600
Speaker 2: to look ridiculous and it's like no, you actually unfortunately

1101
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 2: guessed it exactly. But it's like, but this movie cannot

1102
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 2: I think it's like what is the stopping point? Because

1103
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 2: it's like, well, if what is happening to dem More

1104
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:19,080
Speaker 2: is abuse, then what's happening to all of the soldiers

1105
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 2: his abuse? And you're like, yeah, yeah, what if it

1106
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:27,280
Speaker 2: was there? Yes, but again just like going right up

1107
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 2: to the line of like, but we cannot interrogate the

1108
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 2: system why I don't know. I really don't know. The

1109
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 2: other exchange that because and I feel like that that

1110
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 2: exchange and this one like really tells you what the

1111
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:43,920
Speaker 2: movie is about. For some reason, what is the okay

1112
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 2: in one of her many like would you say that

1113
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:48,960
Speaker 2: to a woman? Which there are times to ask that

1114
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 2: question very rarely. When she does though, where it's like

1115
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:57,360
Speaker 2: she's talking to her her nurse friend, you know, and

1116
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 2: she her nurse is like, why are you doing this?

1117
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 2: And it is kind of gendered the way she's asking it.

1118
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 2: I wish she was asking it more in the Royal

1119
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 2: why are we doing this? Can we stop? Right? But

1120
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 2: she says why are you doing this? And then to me,

1121
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 2: Moore says, would you ask a man the same question?

1122
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:17,040
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah? And then like, and what do they

1123
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 2: say when you ask them that question? And the nurse replies,

1124
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,440
Speaker 2: they say, because I get to blow shit up. And

1125
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:28,960
Speaker 2: then instead of again, instead of interrogating that, Demi Moore's

1126
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:31,440
Speaker 2: character says, well, there you go. And then the scene

1127
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 2: is over and you're like, well, I guess that's what

1128
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 2: the fucking movie is about. Yeah, because I get to

1129
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 2: blow shit up? Does feel like sort of the moral

1130
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 2: of the story.

1131
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and anything being a victim of any kind

1132
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:46,640
Speaker 3: of violence is worth it so that you can blow

1133
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:50,280
Speaker 3: shit up. Yeah, this is like the moral of the story.

1134
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 1: It's boggling. We touched on this a bit already, but

1135
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 1: The one bit of commentary I suppose that the movie

1136
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 1: does seem to offer is that this senator woman who

1137
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 1: does this like gender integration into the military project, originally

1138
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 1: kind of under the guise of feminism and championing women,

1139
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 1: but she abandons all that to further her political career.

1140
01:07:25,400 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 1: As soon as her own career is being threatened, she

1141
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 1: drops any advocacy she was doing. Fuck that, I'm looking

1142
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 1: out for me and myself, which happens all the time

1143
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 1: in American politics. I mean, look at fucking AOC pretending

1144
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 1: to be this progressive voice and then voting to keep

1145
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:51,640
Speaker 1: sending money to Israel. You know, shit like that. But

1146
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 1: that commentary means basically nothing in a movie that's saying, well, yeah,

1147
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 1: sure politicians are correct, but the American military is right good.

1148
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 2: Actually, that's I mean the under the underdog. You're like,

1149
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:11,520
Speaker 2: what do you mean you're talking about.

1150
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 3: There's a scene, there's a scene earlier first first half

1151
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,360
Speaker 3: of the movie for sure, maybe even first quarter of

1152
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:21,240
Speaker 3: the movie, in which the guy in the highest command

1153
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:25,719
Speaker 3: position at the base or training center where the trainees

1154
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 3: are at he's on the phone with the senator. This

1155
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:31,519
Speaker 3: is when the photos first go public. You know, there's

1156
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:35,800
Speaker 3: some sort of investigative reporter taking pictures with a telephoto lens,

1157
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:37,760
Speaker 3: and these are getting leaked to the public, and all

1158
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 3: of a sudden, the public knows that a woman is

1159
01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 3: in the training program for the Navy Seals. So the

1160
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 3: senator calls the high ranking officer and is like, what

1161
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 3: the hell you know, this wasn't supposed to go public.

1162
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:56,760
Speaker 3: What's going on? And the officer guy says, like, you know,

1163
01:08:57,320 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 3: a Senator, these photographers are using telephoto lenses. Nothing I

1164
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 3: can do. They're on a public highway now unless you

1165
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:08,720
Speaker 3: want me to violate the Constitution and violate their civil liberties.

1166
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:11,560
Speaker 3: I can't do anything about that. And you wouldn't want that,

1167
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 3: would you, Senator. And it's like the milly the military

1168
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:21,160
Speaker 3: cares about the Constitution. They're they're they're doing ice detentions

1169
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:25,920
Speaker 3: right now. They're using military basis for for kidnapping migrants.

1170
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 3: So yeah, no, that's that's yeah. The the US military

1171
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:32,280
Speaker 3: is in no way the good guy in in in

1172
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:35,559
Speaker 3: any in any situation, and certainly not legally right, I.

1173
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 2: Mean, and I think it is like a very a

1174
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 2: very like calculated thing to present the military as the

1175
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:45,360
Speaker 2: good guys but not present the entire government as the

1176
01:09:45,400 --> 01:09:47,880
Speaker 2: good guys like they It's almost like it's a it's

1177
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:50,720
Speaker 2: a like a lot of copaganda narratives. It's like the

1178
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 2: there there are bad apples, and Anne Bancroft is a

1179
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 2: bad apple. She is too craven and ambitious, certainly not

1180
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 2: the head of the military, especially if you go back

1181
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 2: to the beginning, and like she I think accurately points

1182
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:08,599
Speaker 2: out that he was sex like wildly sexist at many

1183
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 2: points in his career. But we're just meant to forget

1184
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 2: that because the moral of Demi Moore's story is that

1185
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:20,360
Speaker 2: embracing masculinity and all of its horrors is good for you,

1186
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:24,400
Speaker 2: and so it doesn't matter if even I don't know

1187
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:28,840
Speaker 2: like the because the Ambrake bankrupt character is like it's

1188
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 2: almost frustrating that you're like, yeah, this is these these

1189
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:34,760
Speaker 2: are real people that do this, but there is no

1190
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:38,840
Speaker 2: one in the military who is presented as they would

1191
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 2: actually be, or if they are, it's like, and that's

1192
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:45,120
Speaker 2: good and that's the job. But when when this other

1193
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 2: character is craven and horrible, it's bad.

1194
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:53,920
Speaker 3: There's no rules, right exactly exactly. It's I had a

1195
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:57,360
Speaker 3: note that that the scenes in this movie. We're moving

1196
01:10:57,439 --> 01:11:02,280
Speaker 3: at like breakneckt speed. It's the scenes. The scenes in

1197
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 3: this movie, I don't know if we want to talk

1198
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 3: about this. Y'all are forty five seconds long, especially in

1199
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 3: the first half, and we're establishing so much information and

1200
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:19,320
Speaker 3: we are moving at such an intense wild pace, and yeah,

1201
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:22,200
Speaker 3: these are this is editorial choice for sure.

1202
01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:26,280
Speaker 1: And it's always this like there are these like hard

1203
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 1: cuts to the next scene, and they're usually accompanied by

1204
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:34,440
Speaker 1: this like really epic music when it's like nothing epic happened.

1205
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:37,920
Speaker 2: Like why are we like it's either epic music or

1206
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:42,800
Speaker 2: like nineties adults contemporary. It's so dissonant we should turn

1207
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:45,439
Speaker 2: to the score. Maybe, Yeah, because there are some.

1208
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:55,559
Speaker 3: Choices made about nineties women ballads in very key scenes.

1209
01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:59,519
Speaker 2: Some of them I was laughing because they're just like

1210
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 2: it heard. Yeah, there is a Chrissy Hind song where

1211
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:07,040
Speaker 2: I was like that, and I also hate that, you know,

1212
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 2: it's like these people would have had to have agreed

1213
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:12,400
Speaker 2: to have their song put in this. I what I

1214
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:14,960
Speaker 2: don't know, I guess is do you get to see

1215
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:17,280
Speaker 2: the movie before you like decide if your song is

1216
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 2: able to be used. I'm assuming no, but either way

1217
01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:21,639
Speaker 2: it's horrible.

1218
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 3: That's an interesting question. Yeah, whether whether these whether these

1219
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:28,800
Speaker 3: women artists would have approved their song being used in

1220
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:30,240
Speaker 3: the movie had they seen it before.

1221
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:32,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, even if you agree to the premise,

1222
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:36,880
Speaker 2: it's still it's like either way. Chrissy Hyde put two

1223
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:41,760
Speaker 2: of her songs in the Girl Boss Navy Seals movie. Yeah,

1224
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:44,760
Speaker 2: so you know that's that's on her.

1225
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 3: It was clockable, Yeah, it was clockable beforehand.

1226
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:49,800
Speaker 2: You're right, yeah, it does. It does feel like the

1227
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 2: songs are weaponized.

1228
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:54,759
Speaker 1: Yes, but that was I mean, like not to defend

1229
01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 1: anything here, but like the feminism, the Girl Boss feminism

1230
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:04,080
Speaker 1: of the nineties, this movie is very emblematic of that,

1231
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 1: and that was what we were like, Yeah, this is

1232
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:10,680
Speaker 1: feminism because we just weren't in ter I mean there

1233
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 1: are episodes, early episodes of the show I feel like

1234
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 1: on the.

1235
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:16,959
Speaker 2: Rock, Oh yeah, we were not asking the right questions.

1236
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was not saying good things on that episode,

1237
01:13:20,439 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 1: like being critical enough of the military industrial complex. But yeah,

1238
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 1: this was this was very reflective of the times. There

1239
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:32,920
Speaker 1: are two things I do like about this movie. One

1240
01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 1: is the scene where Jordan and her boyfriend are in

1241
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:41,280
Speaker 1: the bathtub together and then he gets out of the

1242
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 1: bathtub and she says, get your dick back in here.

1243
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:48,639
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I like, this movie's tried so hard,

1244
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:54,519
Speaker 2: so hard. Also that weird fart, what is that fart joke?

1245
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:56,920
Speaker 2: That the like, Oh, yeah, the hell was that?

1246
01:13:57,439 --> 01:13:59,800
Speaker 3: That was a brain fart, like a soldier. That was

1247
01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 3: a brain fart, And I don't accept brain farts in

1248
01:14:02,240 --> 01:14:05,759
Speaker 3: you said something stupid and brain and I don't accept

1249
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:06,519
Speaker 3: that in my office.

1250
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:09,720
Speaker 2: This this script was bad, but also the actor was

1251
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:11,640
Speaker 2: not selling it at all or I was like, what

1252
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:14,520
Speaker 2: the hell like, yeah, silly.

1253
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:17,320
Speaker 1: Ye didn't like that? Did love? Get your dick back

1254
01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:20,160
Speaker 1: in here? And then there's also a part where the

1255
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:25,800
Speaker 1: whatever the officers are screaming at and berating the trainees,

1256
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:28,720
Speaker 1: you know, hurling insults at them, and one of the

1257
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:33,479
Speaker 1: things they say is worm sperm and that's just that's

1258
01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:35,040
Speaker 1: that's funny. That's good.

1259
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:36,759
Speaker 3: I'll go ahead and put that in my pocket.

1260
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:38,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'll say that again.

1261
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, Daniella.

1262
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:47,680
Speaker 1: Actually, but everything else was bad. We also touched on

1263
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:51,400
Speaker 1: this a bit, but the way to me Moore's body

1264
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:56,639
Speaker 1: is again, this is not the worst offender of over

1265
01:14:56,800 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 1: sexualizing a woman's body and lear her. But there are

1266
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:05,479
Speaker 1: some weird choices made where, for example, lives that there's

1267
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:09,519
Speaker 1: that little montage where she's by herself trying to get

1268
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:12,280
Speaker 1: stronger doing push ups and pull ups and stuff, and

1269
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:15,000
Speaker 1: it seems like she is not only not wearing a

1270
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 1: sports bra, but she's not wearing any bra and like

1271
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:23,160
Speaker 1: no shade to not wearing a bra in general, but

1272
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:28,439
Speaker 1: when you're doing like very hard physical exercise, like that

1273
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:32,719
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense, and it's it's very much seems

1274
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:34,960
Speaker 1: like it's a well, we have to make sure we

1275
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 1: see her hard nips through this white tank top.

1276
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:41,599
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, she's gotta be she's got to be sweaty,

1277
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:43,719
Speaker 3: and we need to see the edges of her body

1278
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:47,479
Speaker 3: in every respect because throughout the movie, you know the

1279
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:51,400
Speaker 3: naked where she's naked in the shower with Vo Mortensen

1280
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:54,680
Speaker 3: in in the space with her. This is another thing

1281
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:57,679
Speaker 3: like throughout we have to have these almost like sign posts,

1282
01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:01,679
Speaker 3: remember that Meanmore is hot, member Demi Moore is sexy,

1283
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:05,599
Speaker 3: you know, like it's reminding the audience constantly like yeah,

1284
01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:07,479
Speaker 3: we're kind of saying a girl has a brain and

1285
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:11,000
Speaker 3: a girl has a body that can accomplish things physically

1286
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:14,280
Speaker 3: just like men. But also girls are hot.

1287
01:16:14,360 --> 01:16:16,479
Speaker 2: But we're but we're told at the very very big

1288
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:18,519
Speaker 2: I mean it is by I guess who we're supposed

1289
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:20,479
Speaker 2: to think it is the villain of the movie, even

1290
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 2: though she's tied for top villain with so many characters.

1291
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:24,600
Speaker 2: But we're told at the beginning of the movie like

1292
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:28,679
Speaker 2: the limits to which because we're shown we're shown literally

1293
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:34,639
Speaker 2: pictures of women who are not acceptable, and like Demi

1294
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:37,000
Speaker 2: Moore is acceptable, and the camera is not fighting with

1295
01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:40,480
Speaker 2: the villain of the movie on that whatsoever.

1296
01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:44,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the movie isn't taking that up critically. They're like, yeah,

1297
01:16:44,439 --> 01:16:45,439
Speaker 3: you're right, she is hot.

1298
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:47,559
Speaker 2: You do have to you do have to be hot

1299
01:16:47,720 --> 01:16:50,479
Speaker 2: to be respected. You're like, oh, yeah, right.

1300
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:53,799
Speaker 1: And the Senator isn't even poised as the villain at first,

1301
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:58,320
Speaker 1: and he thinks that she's advocating for women's rights for

1302
01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:02,120
Speaker 1: up until probably sixty percent of the way through the movie, and.

1303
01:17:02,160 --> 01:17:05,080
Speaker 2: That's that's the bummer is like again, just like with

1304
01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:07,160
Speaker 2: the theme of this movie, that at the by the

1305
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:10,320
Speaker 2: end of the movie, no one is advocating for women's rights,

1306
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:15,760
Speaker 2: even disingenuously, like we've actually lost one person pretending to

1307
01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:18,760
Speaker 2: fight for women's rights, and then there's no one to

1308
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:20,439
Speaker 2: fill that void, right, and.

1309
01:17:20,479 --> 01:17:22,479
Speaker 1: Again, you could read this and I don't think this

1310
01:17:22,680 --> 01:17:25,640
Speaker 1: was the movie's intention at all, but you know, it

1311
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:30,559
Speaker 1: could have been commentary that, yeah, there are women who

1312
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:34,200
Speaker 1: you would think would be championing for women's rights, but

1313
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:38,799
Speaker 1: they turn out to be upholding the same sexist ideals

1314
01:17:38,840 --> 01:17:41,080
Speaker 1: of the patriarchy, which is very much a thing. There

1315
01:17:41,160 --> 01:17:45,160
Speaker 1: are many women like that, but the movie it just

1316
01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:49,000
Speaker 1: seems as like, yeah, she, like the only other woman

1317
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:50,920
Speaker 1: in the movie is evil, and.

1318
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:55,519
Speaker 2: Well there's also missus nurse who oh right, missus Medick,

1319
01:17:55,600 --> 01:17:59,080
Speaker 2: who is weaponized in a way we haven't talked about yet,

1320
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:03,400
Speaker 2: right where we didn't talk about the homophobia plot point,

1321
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:07,720
Speaker 2: which is get into it seed that is planted and

1322
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:12,160
Speaker 2: then and then it comes back. How thrilling. When the

1323
01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:17,439
Speaker 2: senator was outright transphobic and homophobic at the beginning, I was,

1324
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:20,240
Speaker 2: unfortunately like it turned on tried to go into my

1325
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:22,800
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven brain. I'm like, I'm assuming that her

1326
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:26,120
Speaker 2: transphobia is completely being played as a joke and audiences

1327
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:28,840
Speaker 2: are not supposed to have a problem with it. The homophobia,

1328
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:32,280
Speaker 2: I was less sure about of like are we because

1329
01:18:32,439 --> 01:18:34,240
Speaker 2: she makes such a point of it to be like,

1330
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:38,559
Speaker 2: I need to make sure you're a straight, normal lady.

1331
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:44,000
Speaker 1: You're getting dicked down right by a man with a penis.

1332
01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:46,400
Speaker 2: Right, you better be telling someone to get you get

1333
01:18:46,439 --> 01:18:49,840
Speaker 2: your dick back in here every night. And she's like,

1334
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:50,719
Speaker 2: don't you worried?

1335
01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:51,280
Speaker 3: I am.

1336
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:56,679
Speaker 2: I'm the most normal woman alive. But that home again

1337
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:59,559
Speaker 2: just like this brain dead ass movie where they bring

1338
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:03,920
Speaker 2: back the homophobia because she goes to the beach with

1339
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:08,800
Speaker 2: women and makes physical contact with the only woman she's

1340
01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 2: met in the military.

1341
01:19:10,360 --> 01:19:13,480
Speaker 1: Even like it's so obviously platonic.

1342
01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:18,360
Speaker 2: I mean, but I do believe in like the nineties

1343
01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:23,479
Speaker 2: tabloid culture, this could be weaponized against someone successfully. I

1344
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:26,680
Speaker 2: definitely do believe that. But again, it's just like the

1345
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:29,640
Speaker 2: way that it plays out is like, it's not that

1346
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:34,080
Speaker 2: that is something that should be pushed back on. It's

1347
01:19:34,360 --> 01:19:36,840
Speaker 2: that because they also once again go out of their

1348
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:39,320
Speaker 2: way to be like we're not asking and you don't

1349
01:19:39,400 --> 01:19:44,040
Speaker 2: have to tell us, but which I also know did happen.

1350
01:19:44,479 --> 01:19:46,599
Speaker 2: But then her way of dealing with it, she's like, well,

1351
01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:51,040
Speaker 2: this sucks because I'm not queer and then she leaves.

1352
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:53,360
Speaker 2: It was like, that's not the only thing that sucks.

1353
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:56,840
Speaker 2: They're like, it's it's just this character is unable to

1354
01:19:57,120 --> 01:20:01,439
Speaker 2: conceive of anything outside of her personal predicament, and so

1355
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:06,120
Speaker 2: any like social commentary that happens is because it is

1356
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:09,880
Speaker 2: directly relevant to her. Is why she's always asking would

1357
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:12,320
Speaker 2: you ask a man this? Because she's a woman and

1358
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:15,439
Speaker 2: she's directly experiencing the prejudice. But when it comes to

1359
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:20,360
Speaker 2: literally anyone else, whether it be anyone who's not white,

1360
01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:23,679
Speaker 2: whether it be queer people, she's like, well, that sucks

1361
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:26,759
Speaker 2: because I'm straight and white. And then she like stops

1362
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:31,920
Speaker 2: home and again and again with the fucking. When she's

1363
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:35,439
Speaker 2: like threatening and bankrupt, she's like, I'm gonna go, I'm

1364
01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:37,800
Speaker 2: gonna say something about this publicly. I'm going to say

1365
01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:41,240
Speaker 2: this on MSNBC. And it's like, great, do that. But

1366
01:20:41,360 --> 01:20:44,880
Speaker 2: then when she gets what she wants, which is to

1367
01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:49,800
Speaker 2: like go commit a war crime, she shuts up, yeah

1368
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:52,639
Speaker 2: and never says anything. So it's like, yeah, she's awful.

1369
01:20:53,240 --> 01:20:55,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think this is like a really

1370
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:58,920
Speaker 3: I think this is a really big theme of the movie,

1371
01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:04,160
Speaker 3: which is that like everything is about everything is about

1372
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:10,760
Speaker 3: individual experiences and individual interactions to everybody's detriment. Right, So

1373
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:16,200
Speaker 3: this is about like her as an individual experiencing you know,

1374
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:20,920
Speaker 3: discrimination in different ways and how she overcomes it. But

1375
01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:24,759
Speaker 3: but the system and the rules and and nothing ever changes.

1376
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:28,080
Speaker 3: And I think I was really thinking about this in

1377
01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:34,360
Speaker 3: terms of what I think are a set of really

1378
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:39,479
Speaker 3: disappointing ending scenes. So the end of this movie is

1379
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:43,760
Speaker 3: the ceremony on the beach, where you know, the people

1380
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:48,000
Speaker 3: who have made it through the training are entered into Great,

1381
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:50,679
Speaker 3: you made it into the Navy Seals. Good job.

1382
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:54,639
Speaker 1: You know, I've just murdered dozens of brown people in Libya.

1383
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:58,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, and so handshakes all around, Congratulations soldier,

1384
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:01,840
Speaker 3: here's your here's your ab Seals little metal thing whatever.

1385
01:22:02,479 --> 01:22:07,599
Speaker 3: And then that cuts to Jordan, like in the locker room,

1386
01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:12,840
Speaker 3: kind of putting her stuff away. She realizes that Master

1387
01:22:13,200 --> 01:22:16,800
Speaker 3: Chief Vigo Mortensen has put a book of poems in

1388
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:22,400
Speaker 3: her locker or in her area and inserted another medal,

1389
01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:26,680
Speaker 3: like we can only assume is because she saved his

1390
01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:30,320
Speaker 3: life right right then, and then they make eye contact

1391
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:32,880
Speaker 3: and they're alone, they're alone in the in this locker room.

1392
01:22:32,920 --> 01:22:35,360
Speaker 3: They make eye contact kind of like the honorable nod

1393
01:22:35,479 --> 01:22:38,040
Speaker 3: at one another. I see you, you see me, and

1394
01:22:38,120 --> 01:22:40,280
Speaker 3: then the movie is over. And so there's a lot

1395
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:43,920
Speaker 3: of questions I have, Like number one, the movie proves

1396
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:47,439
Speaker 3: to you, tells you multiple times, there's no systemic change here,

1397
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:51,720
Speaker 3: even as to some sort of like collective change even

1398
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:54,960
Speaker 3: among her team of trainees that she just went through this.

1399
01:22:55,400 --> 01:22:59,160
Speaker 3: That there's no ceremony around her getting this medal publicly,

1400
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:03,559
Speaker 3: Like there's no like team at the end of this movie,

1401
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:05,760
Speaker 3: the people that she's just been through all of this with.

1402
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:11,160
Speaker 3: There's no like celebratory or like, g I Jordan, we

1403
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:14,840
Speaker 3: really actually you know, we did it together, you know

1404
01:23:15,040 --> 01:23:17,400
Speaker 3: kind of thing. There's no there's nothing. It ends with

1405
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:21,160
Speaker 3: her in front of a locker like right, yeah, I

1406
01:23:21,240 --> 01:23:25,200
Speaker 3: don't know, does that make sense, Like it's just the lady.

1407
01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:26,920
Speaker 3: It's just this lady, right.

1408
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:29,719
Speaker 1: You would think there would be like and now women

1409
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:34,080
Speaker 1: are allowed to do the thing. Yeah, but there's none

1410
01:23:34,120 --> 01:23:36,679
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, it's just like it is so hyper

1411
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:42,000
Speaker 1: individualistic every step of the way. To go back to

1412
01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:44,960
Speaker 1: the don't ask, don't tell of it all.

1413
01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:45,519
Speaker 2: Oh.

1414
01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:50,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, So after these like beach photos have been revealed

1415
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: and she's like, these accusations are bogus. But she also

1416
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:58,719
Speaker 1: says like she's like, are you suggesting that I'm a lesbian?

1417
01:23:59,240 --> 01:24:04,400
Speaker 1: Well you better drop these malicious accusations. As if she's

1418
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:05,760
Speaker 1: also homophobic.

1419
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, well she is, Like I'm like she we have

1420
01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:13,639
Speaker 2: no reason to believe that she holds anything but firmly

1421
01:24:13,760 --> 01:24:16,479
Speaker 2: right wing believes based on everything we see her do

1422
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:18,080
Speaker 2: and say or this whole movie.

1423
01:24:18,520 --> 01:24:23,560
Speaker 3: True, Yeah, the homophobia here to the degree and I

1424
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:26,719
Speaker 3: don't think it is. But if there is some tiny

1425
01:24:26,840 --> 01:24:30,200
Speaker 3: interpretation that could be made that, like homophobia in the

1426
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:34,439
Speaker 3: military is unjust and wrong, which I don't think the

1427
01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:37,960
Speaker 3: movie is doing right, it's still you are still supposed

1428
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:42,560
Speaker 3: to kind of shrug your shoulders and understand why that

1429
01:24:42,680 --> 01:24:46,360
Speaker 3: would be wielded against her or like wielded against anybody, right,

1430
01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:49,400
Speaker 3: Like you're still supposed to be like you know, if

1431
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:53,080
Speaker 3: maybe you're like, yeah, but being queer isn't wrong, right,

1432
01:24:53,280 --> 01:24:56,120
Speaker 3: It's still the lesson is still supposed to be. But like,

1433
01:24:56,560 --> 01:24:59,720
Speaker 3: but but don't you see like you can't be publicly

1434
01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:04,720
Speaker 3: you know. That's the That's the best that can be

1435
01:25:04,840 --> 01:25:06,840
Speaker 3: said about the homophobia here.

1436
01:25:07,080 --> 01:25:10,360
Speaker 2: And what a nineteen ninety seven sentiment is like, hot

1437
01:25:10,439 --> 01:25:14,200
Speaker 2: white women can join the military, but you better be

1438
01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:18,240
Speaker 2: straight or you're not welcome here. Like it's just the

1439
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:21,960
Speaker 2: line is so clear. Wait, I need to find this.

1440
01:25:22,960 --> 01:25:27,120
Speaker 2: Oh yes, okay, this is from that same spy culture again.

1441
01:25:27,200 --> 01:25:31,200
Speaker 2: If anyone knows about the legitimacy of the publication, Spy Culture.

1442
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:32,840
Speaker 1: Sounds like a scholarly journal to me.

1443
01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:35,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, their logos very silly. I'm like they got the document.

1444
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:39,000
Speaker 2: I don't know. Okay, I have not vetted spy culture,

1445
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:41,240
Speaker 2: but they had a behind the scenes fact that I

1446
01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:44,559
Speaker 2: did not see anywhere else. So, continuing on this back

1447
01:25:44,600 --> 01:25:48,479
Speaker 2: and forth between Ridley Scott and the DoD, Scott agreed

1448
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:50,560
Speaker 2: to almost all the changes requested, but even after he

1449
01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:53,240
Speaker 2: submitted a heavily altered script, the DOOD still said no.

1450
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:56,479
Speaker 2: This led to an amusing but not unprecedented incident where

1451
01:25:56,520 --> 01:25:59,400
Speaker 2: Demi Moore called up the White House and asked to

1452
01:25:59,439 --> 01:26:01,639
Speaker 2: talk to press it in Clinton to try to get

1453
01:26:01,680 --> 01:26:05,639
Speaker 2: the decision overturned. The DoD file on Gi Jane includes

1454
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:11,760
Speaker 2: several press cuttings about this, all of which makes sexy jokes. Yeah. So, also,

1455
01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:17,840
Speaker 2: Demi Moore called one of our pedophile presidents to try

1456
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:22,799
Speaker 2: to get her imperialism movie made as intended.

1457
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:25,479
Speaker 3: You're just like and the White House was probably like lady,

1458
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:28,120
Speaker 3: you just did strip teas and it sucked. Like, you know,

1459
01:26:29,240 --> 01:26:32,479
Speaker 3: Demi Moore in ninety seven doesn't have social or political

1460
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:34,680
Speaker 3: capital at the White House, I.

1461
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:37,439
Speaker 2: Mean, and unfortunately that is like reflected. I mean it

1462
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:41,040
Speaker 2: all because it sucks because like Demi Moore is willingly

1463
01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:44,600
Speaker 2: participating in this imperialist slop. Yeah, and also she is

1464
01:26:44,720 --> 01:26:46,320
Speaker 2: kind of treated like shit a lot.

1465
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:48,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're just getting demeaned left and right.

1466
01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:49,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1467
01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:53,479
Speaker 1: Does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?

1468
01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:57,519
Speaker 3: I'm looking at me notes, but don't want to be

1469
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:02,120
Speaker 3: batting for the other side. They will eat corn flakes

1470
01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:05,040
Speaker 3: out of your skull. Oh your boyfriend telling you we

1471
01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:06,760
Speaker 3: don't have to talk about that. I just I took

1472
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:08,799
Speaker 3: notes on like the wildest lines.

1473
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:11,439
Speaker 2: You know, there are some lines that are just straight

1474
01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:15,519
Speaker 2: up weird, like just yeah, the brain fart thing, the

1475
01:27:15,640 --> 01:27:18,120
Speaker 2: corn flake skull, like get your dick back in here.

1476
01:27:18,680 --> 01:27:20,839
Speaker 2: Worm sperm or sperm.

1477
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:25,240
Speaker 1: At least we had worm sperm. This movie gave us

1478
01:27:25,280 --> 01:27:29,760
Speaker 1: worm sperm and nothing else. I'm grateful. Yeah, that's all

1479
01:27:30,040 --> 01:27:33,880
Speaker 1: I had this movie does pass the Bechdel test, as

1480
01:27:33,960 --> 01:27:37,200
Speaker 1: we said at the beginning of the episode, but again

1481
01:27:37,439 --> 01:27:38,200
Speaker 1: at what cost.

1482
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:40,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is this is a great example of the

1483
01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:44,320
Speaker 2: reason why it was to this day Alison Bechdel's like,

1484
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:46,680
Speaker 2: that was not how I intended it for it to

1485
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:48,360
Speaker 2: be used, right.

1486
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:53,760
Speaker 1: Yes, as far as our nipple scale though, where we

1487
01:27:54,280 --> 01:27:57,360
Speaker 1: rate the movie based on a scale of zero to

1488
01:27:57,439 --> 01:28:02,320
Speaker 1: five nipples examining it through yes, hard visible nipples through

1489
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:06,120
Speaker 1: your white tank top, based on examining the movie through

1490
01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:07,760
Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens.

1491
01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:09,400
Speaker 4: Uh.

1492
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:11,720
Speaker 1: I think maybe if I had watched this movie ten

1493
01:28:11,840 --> 01:28:14,479
Speaker 1: years ago, I would have given it like two nipples.

1494
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:18,600
Speaker 1: Today I'm giving it zero nipples because it really is

1495
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:25,320
Speaker 1: just a propaganda tool for American imperialism and American military

1496
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:31,400
Speaker 1: industrial complex, and those are the most evil entities imaginable.

1497
01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:35,280
Speaker 1: So I give it zero nipples. If I did have

1498
01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:39,640
Speaker 1: to give it some, I'll give one foot rot or

1499
01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:43,080
Speaker 1: whatever Jordan gets diagnosed with on her foot.

1500
01:28:43,760 --> 01:28:46,760
Speaker 2: I can why bring foot rot into it.

1501
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:49,400
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to cut to the foot rot, like, yeah,

1502
01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:54,160
Speaker 1: one foot rot to the line worm sperm, but zero nipples.

1503
01:28:54,960 --> 01:28:59,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm also zero this. I'm like I'm glad that

1504
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:03,880
Speaker 2: this movie was not successful in doing what it wanted

1505
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:06,120
Speaker 2: to do. I would recommend, I mean, I'm going to

1506
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:08,840
Speaker 2: when we got off this callm to keep watching that

1507
01:29:08,920 --> 01:29:12,120
Speaker 2: documentary because I think that that's like something that should

1508
01:29:12,200 --> 01:29:15,120
Speaker 2: be talked about a lot off. Like how absolutely complicit

1509
01:29:15,840 --> 01:29:19,479
Speaker 2: so many filmmakers, and now I think even more so

1510
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:23,639
Speaker 2: video game creators are in working with the American military.

1511
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:27,200
Speaker 2: And how yeah, and how so much of this I mean,

1512
01:29:27,479 --> 01:29:32,479
Speaker 2: this specific movie is clearly targeting women, but how so

1513
01:29:32,720 --> 01:29:36,240
Speaker 2: much of this entertainment targets children so that when the

1514
01:29:36,360 --> 01:29:39,960
Speaker 2: recruiters come around, they have already been, you know, fully

1515
01:29:40,439 --> 01:29:46,280
Speaker 2: encouraged to view fighting for an imperial force as normal

1516
01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:51,600
Speaker 2: and good and righteous and all this stuff. So yeah, no, no,

1517
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:52,920
Speaker 2: no nipples. It sucked.

1518
01:29:53,080 --> 01:29:55,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, zero nipples for sure from me.

1519
01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:59,040
Speaker 1: Love it when we're all in agreement, lehann And thank

1520
01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:01,839
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. It was a pleasure.

1521
01:30:02,200 --> 01:30:04,000
Speaker 3: This was really fun. Thanks for having me.

1522
01:30:04,160 --> 01:30:05,840
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, come back anytime.

1523
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:10,160
Speaker 1: Please tell us about your podcasts, tell us where people

1524
01:30:10,240 --> 01:30:11,599
Speaker 1: can check them out, et cetera.

1525
01:30:12,120 --> 01:30:15,040
Speaker 3: Sure, so wherever you get your podcasts, both of these.

1526
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:19,559
Speaker 3: My podcast five to four is a podcast about how

1527
01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:24,479
Speaker 3: much the Supreme Court sucks. We talk about discuss present

1528
01:30:24,760 --> 01:30:28,680
Speaker 3: basically left critique of the Supreme Court, critique of the

1529
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:32,679
Speaker 3: conservative legal movement. You know, there's six fascists up there

1530
01:30:32,880 --> 01:30:35,360
Speaker 3: right now. There's a lot to talk about. So check

1531
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:40,880
Speaker 3: out five to four for all the Supreme Court depression news.

1532
01:30:41,400 --> 01:30:44,280
Speaker 3: And then and then I'm also on a podcast called

1533
01:30:44,320 --> 01:30:47,280
Speaker 3: Popular Cradle, which is a little bit newer, and Popular

1534
01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:51,160
Speaker 3: Cradle is a podcast about Palestine from here in the

1535
01:30:51,240 --> 01:30:57,560
Speaker 3: far diaspora. I am on that podcast with two Palestinian organizers,

1536
01:30:57,640 --> 01:31:01,400
Speaker 3: community organizers, and we're talking about the Palestinian liberation movement,

1537
01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:06,160
Speaker 3: the history of Palestinian resistance, what's going on right now,

1538
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:10,760
Speaker 3: gesturing at everything, and more. So, Yeah, you can check

1539
01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:14,040
Speaker 3: both of those out wherever you get podcasts. You can

1540
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:18,880
Speaker 3: follow me on Blue Sky at Awa Rhiannon AA's a

1541
01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:22,599
Speaker 3: y w a Rhiannon. And you can check out our

1542
01:31:23,320 --> 01:31:26,559
Speaker 3: Patreon four five to four at patreon dot com Slash

1543
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:28,760
Speaker 3: five four pod all spelled.

1544
01:31:28,479 --> 01:31:32,040
Speaker 1: Out excellent, Thank you again, come back anytime.

1545
01:31:32,479 --> 01:31:32,800
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1546
01:31:33,439 --> 01:31:37,640
Speaker 2: Death to g I Jane, Sorry death death, death to

1547
01:31:37,800 --> 01:31:41,160
Speaker 2: g I Jane. So I was thinking of the Wendy Williams,

1548
01:31:41,360 --> 01:31:42,479
Speaker 2: the Wendy Volliumes meme.

1549
01:31:43,960 --> 01:31:49,160
Speaker 1: Oh Yeah, you can follow our our Patreon as well

1550
01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:53,720
Speaker 1: aka Patreon at patreon dot com. Slash Bectal Cast two

1551
01:31:53,760 --> 01:31:57,479
Speaker 1: bonus episodes a month, plus the entire back catalog and

1552
01:31:58,479 --> 01:32:00,320
Speaker 1: with that at.

1553
01:32:00,360 --> 01:32:04,280
Speaker 2: Ease Soldiers at Ease, Bye Bye.

1554
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:11,360
Speaker 1: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

1555
01:32:11,439 --> 01:32:15,280
Speaker 1: Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichtermann, edited

1556
01:32:15,400 --> 01:32:18,559
Speaker 1: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike

1557
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:23,040
Speaker 1: Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskressensky. Our logo in merch

1558
01:32:23,200 --> 01:32:26,160
Speaker 1: is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to

1559
01:32:26,200 --> 01:32:30,599
Speaker 1: Aristotle Assevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

1560
01:32:30,680 --> 01:32:32,200
Speaker 1: linktree slash Bechdel Cast