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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of four,

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Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger.

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Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing position and blogger. On

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Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our

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Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family,

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Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping

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Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get

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Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome the best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode fifty six. We have

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Speaker 1: a special guest today, kJ del Antonia. She is actually

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Speaker 1: sitting right next to me, which is where I'm sitting

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Speaker 1: in her hotel room in the Marriott and worrying this afternoon.

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Speaker 1: So you don't have to worry about Credeus doccers or

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Speaker 1: anything so far, I don't have any ever since that

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Speaker 1: one boyfriend in nineteen ninety three h Jols. She will

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Speaker 1: be out of this Marriott by the side of the airs,

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Speaker 1: but we're sitting in her to hotel room because we're

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Speaker 1: at the podcast movement conference here, so we're glad we

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Speaker 1: got to do this mostly in person. Sarah's in Miami,

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Speaker 1: but we're ye, I'm totally jealous. I'm totally jealous. That's okay,

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Speaker 1: So we'll have kJ introduced herself. We're happy to have

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Speaker 1: her on because she is the author of a brand

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Speaker 1: new book. It's called How to Be a Happier Parent,

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Speaker 1: which is of course something that we are all looking

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Speaker 1: to do. H and Sarah and I have also been

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Speaker 1: listening to her podcast for a while, which is hashtag

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Speaker 1: am Writing. She and jess Ley talk about all manner

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Speaker 1: of writing, and as they say in their introduction, every

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Speaker 1: time the various different stores, tweets, blog posts, lists all things.

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Speaker 1: So we've we've been listening to that as well and

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Speaker 1: learning learning a lot about the business and the practical

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Speaker 1: sides of writing. So welcome, Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: having me. This is going to be really fun. I

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Speaker 1: think it is too. It's weird to actually do a

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Speaker 1: podcast while I'm talking looking at someone, well at each other.

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Speaker 1: So why don't you introduce yourself to our guests? Anything

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Speaker 1: that I didn't didn't sure, So I am Kjdalantonia. As

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Speaker 1: Laura said, I'm the author of the book How to

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Speaker 1: Be a Happier Parent. It is just just out, and

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Speaker 1: I've just sort of come off an exciting period of

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Speaker 1: like telling everyone about it, and I guess I'm right

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Speaker 1: in the middle of an exciting period of going and

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Speaker 1: telling every one about it. I am also the former

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Speaker 1: editor of the mother Load blog at The New York Times,

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Speaker 1: which became Well Family. I'm still a contributor there, and I,

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Speaker 1: you know, freelance write about all things parenting, typically more

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Speaker 1: on the cultural and societal and political side than on

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Speaker 1: the personal, but a little bit of booth and the

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Speaker 1: book is it's really a data driven research look at

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Speaker 1: how to be a happier parent, but with lots of

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Speaker 1: informed by my life with four kids, and informed by

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Speaker 1: lots and lots of been there, Done that parents who

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Speaker 1: frankly had a lot to teach me about some of

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Speaker 1: the topics we covered. Yeah, and I've enjoyed reading a

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Speaker 1: lot of your like freelance stuff for years prior to this.

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Speaker 1: Is this your first full book? No, My first full

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Speaker 1: length books was actually before I even joined the Times.

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Speaker 1: It was called Reading with Babies, Toddlers and twos. I

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Speaker 1: co authored it with Susan Straub, who's maybe more famous

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Speaker 1: now as being Emma Straub's mom, and Emma's a novelist

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Speaker 1: you might have heard of in New York. They are

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Speaker 1: this super literary family, and connecting with Susan was really

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Speaker 1: one of the big starts of my career, and we

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Speaker 1: had this hugely fun time writing about little about kids

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Speaker 1: books at the time. Although kJ did have a career

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Speaker 1: before that too. Oh yeah, I was a lawyer. She

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Speaker 1: was a lawyer. That so fun start. She actually went

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Speaker 1: to law school at this relatively the same time as

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Speaker 1: my husband, although she she graduated a little bit later

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Speaker 1: as she was. Yeah, there's much younger and much much

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Speaker 1: much younger if I could still be overlapping being there

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Speaker 1: at the same time. But yeah, so that was. That

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Speaker 1: was when I mentioned to you At some point He's like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I went to law school with her. It was a

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Speaker 1: small law school. It was I kind of all need

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Speaker 1: totally was we all knew each other. Yeah, well there

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Speaker 1: you go. Hopefully he behaved himself in school. I don't

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Speaker 1: really have any idea. It was all good. Might not

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Speaker 1: want to know that could be possible. So yeah, I left,

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Speaker 1: left the law, fled from the law, led from the law,

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Speaker 1: went into a literary career. How did the New York

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Speaker 1: Times one come about, by the way, you've applied for that.

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Speaker 1: Oh at least after Lisa Belkan right, Yeah, so so

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Speaker 1: this was great, all right, So I stopped being a lawyer,

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Speaker 1: had a baby. I actually got laid off from from

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Speaker 1: being a lawyer after nine to eleven, and decided at

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Speaker 1: that point that it was time to throw myself into

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Speaker 1: the writing, which really was what I'd always intended to do.

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Speaker 1: So I paid a lot of money. I say, the

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Speaker 1: law school is just sort of circuit at Yeah. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: my dad won't be listening to this because that would

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Speaker 1: it would dis crush him. So I threw myself into

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Speaker 1: and it was just when the Internet was really hitting

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Speaker 1: and boiling the best of the day, and so I

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Speaker 1: was I was literally mailing queries to magazines in little

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Speaker 1: envelopes with self addres stamped returned envelopes the people who

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Speaker 1: are younger. Yeah, yeah, so I barely caught that. And

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Speaker 1: at the same time I was writing for these new things.

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Speaker 1: And I joined the cast at Slate pretty early on,

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Speaker 1: not super early, but when they were starting they were

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Speaker 1: trying to do a gender based section I guess called

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Speaker 1: X Factor, and I joined them actually as their children's

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Speaker 1: media reviewer. With the idea that I would then write

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Speaker 1: anything and everything that I could for them and just

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Speaker 1: said yes, yes, yes, and ended up as one of

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Speaker 1: their regulars. And from there when I found out when

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Speaker 1: Lisa told me that she was leaving Mother Load for HuffPo,

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Speaker 1: which is what she did, I literally, I think she

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Speaker 1: emailed me I'm leaving. And I was at dinner with Jess,

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Speaker 1: my co host, and our friend Serena Bowen, and I said, guys,

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Speaker 1: I have to go because I have to go home

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Speaker 1: and write a job. Okay, oh wow. And by the

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Speaker 1: end of that night I had sent them an email

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Speaker 1: and said I am the best person for this job.

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Speaker 1: There was more to it than that. Okay, you say so. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you did it for you did it for quite

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Speaker 1: some time. I did it for five years. Wow. Yeah

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Speaker 1: it was. I mean it was great. It was the best.

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Speaker 1: It was the best, the best job ever really, because

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Speaker 1: you learned, I mean, you get so many different topics.

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there was a huge amount of content

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Speaker 1: to put out there, but you probably heard from so

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Speaker 1: many different people and all the different aspects. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: I really started out as the wild the Wild West.

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Speaker 1: It was I mean, Lisa had done it for a while,

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Speaker 1: but just as I joined, we were really starting to

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Speaker 1: have guest writers, so I did so much more editing

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Speaker 1: than anybody expected me to do. And also, you know,

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Speaker 1: they paid, They paid a lot of really close attention

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Speaker 1: to the the words, as the times should but at

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Speaker 1: the time, so the sort of the stuff around it,

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Speaker 1: the illustrations, whether or not you maybe you know, tried

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Speaker 1: to explore a little stop motion video or I don't

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Speaker 1: know if anybody remembers, ye, which was that short video

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Speaker 1: thing when you were on Twitter, all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: They weren't really on top of that yet, so you

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Speaker 1: kind of could just we really spend a lot of

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Speaker 1: time playing around and exploring. It's not fun. I remember

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Speaker 1: seeing kJ at a conference with a little camera like

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Speaker 1: on a tripod blogging. Yeah. So, and I'm sure part

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Speaker 1: of you you saw a lot of different aspects of

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Speaker 1: parenting through that that beat, and your book has certainly

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Speaker 1: come out of a part of that. I mean, do

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Speaker 1: you think it is hard to be happy as a parent? Why?

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Speaker 1: Why is this an issue? That's so? I think surprisingly

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Speaker 1: few of us feel like we're happy as a parent.

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Speaker 1: And that was definitely my experience in working with other

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Speaker 1: writers and interviewing people. It wasn't to be honest, This

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Speaker 1: is I just I've been, you know, looking at different

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Speaker 1: lines from my book, and one of them was there

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Speaker 1: wasn't really anything to complain about, but complain we did, yes,

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Speaker 1: So you know, here we all were with these lovely

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Speaker 1: modern Western lives and realistically on a day to day basis,

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Speaker 1: most of us especially, I mean, if you're if you've

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Speaker 1: got the wherewithal to be listening to this podcast and

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Speaker 1: be worried about this, you probably have generally speaking, enough

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Speaker 1: to eat and a roof over your head, and you know,

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Speaker 1: clean sheets and the works. And yet we find a

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Speaker 1: lot of things to stress about. And I really wanted

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Speaker 1: to look at both why and sort of more relevantly,

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Speaker 1: can we make that stop? Because this is what we wanted,

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Speaker 1: Like most of us really worked hard to get to

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Speaker 1: this family position. We wanted to be working parents with

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Speaker 1: kids and have all the things and the dishwasher and

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Speaker 1: the dog and everything, you know, So how can we

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Speaker 1: get to the point where we're mostly enjoying it. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure that my sheets are all that clean. You

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Speaker 1: could clean, I could clean work. It might or might not.

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Speaker 1: That's sort of interesting for Laura, I don't think it would.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if it's you know, it's this gap between

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Speaker 1: sort of expectations and reality. You see about how my

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Speaker 1: parenthood is portrayed and all sorts of them in between

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Speaker 1: the Hallmark movie side, you know, the instagram of people's like,

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Speaker 1: oh my four darling children, and you know, then there's

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Speaker 1: that expectation in the reality where they're like up at

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Speaker 1: five am and biting each other. You know, So is

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Speaker 1: that gap you think partly responsible? That gap is partly

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Speaker 1: responsible for that for it? And I do think when

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Speaker 1: they're up at five am and biting each and we

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Speaker 1: just we just took a road trip with four and

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Speaker 1: they spent a lot of time licking each other. Are

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Speaker 1: teenagers way mind you? Yes? Yeah, you know we're sitting

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Speaker 1: there telling the twelve year old to stop licking the

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Speaker 1: seventeen year old, and we had this huge commotion because

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Speaker 1: the fourteen year old licked the thirteen year old. Camera.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, So we got twelve, thirteen, fourteen, and seventeen.

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Speaker 1: I do, I do, and they're still they're just clustered

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Speaker 1: in there. Yeah, they're licking each other. So I think

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Speaker 1: we feel like that's bad, Like those are the bad times.

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Speaker 1: It's five am and they're biting each other, and this

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Speaker 1: is and this is terrible because they shouldn't be biting

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Speaker 1: and licking each other, and it should look different. And

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Speaker 1: so some of what I found as I researched the

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Speaker 1: book was that part of our problem is just how

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Speaker 1: we how we look at it. And it's not just

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Speaker 1: I think this should look more instagram worthy. It's also actually,

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Speaker 1: you know, the five am bite. Nobody wants to be

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Speaker 1: up at five am or sorry, I gotta let you,

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Speaker 1: But that moment when they're all there and they're all

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Speaker 1: doing those things, I mean, there's this larger good that

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Speaker 1: is still going on. You're still you know, you're still

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Speaker 1: in your happy place. You're your family is still it's

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Speaker 1: still your refuge, you're still loved, you're still sort of

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Speaker 1: part of a good piece of life. And being able

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Speaker 1: to train your brain to notice that even as you're shrieking,

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Speaker 1: stop biting, I can tell those are your tooth marks

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Speaker 1: on her arm, you know, it just it just can

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Speaker 1: make the whole thing just feel a little better. That's

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Speaker 1: your legal background that you can identify the two things.

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Speaker 1: The point of evidence here off which which child it

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Speaker 1: was who did that? I know you were the only

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Speaker 1: one missing a front too, So I know that with you.

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Speaker 1: And one of the great things about this book is

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Speaker 1: that kJ talks about her you know, personal story of it,

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Speaker 1: and there's a lot of kJ and her family in there.

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Speaker 1: And in addition to the broader research, you know, I

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Speaker 1: wonder if you could share some of your particular stumbling

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Speaker 1: blocks there, you know, low moments on your parenting journey. Well,

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Speaker 1: I got one with your your two daughters. You know,

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Speaker 1: the showdown at the hockey rank was was certainly a moment. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So my two daughters are extremely close in age, and

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Speaker 1: as I was writing this book, they were they were

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Speaker 1: eleven and twelve. They were living in the they shared

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Speaker 1: a bedroom, they go to the same tiny school. They

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Speaker 1: were playing on the same hockey team. Basically every minute

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Speaker 1: of every day they were together. And they didn't This

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Speaker 1: was not my choosing. They did not like each other

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Speaker 1: at this time. They are both very different and very similar,

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Speaker 1: and they were just they were at war. It was

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Speaker 1: it was just every day was this. If you don't

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Speaker 1: have siblings who are at each other's throat, it's hard

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Speaker 1: to even sort of think about how bad it is

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Speaker 1: just to live with people who are really willing to

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Speaker 1: go for the jugular at any moment. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: like you can have two officemates who dislike each other,

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Speaker 1: they're not going to be like you know, they at

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Speaker 1: least are trying to be professional and generally speaking, you're

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Speaker 1: not crying one of them's hands off the other one's neck.

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Speaker 1: And that's an exaggeration. I don't think that ever happened,

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Speaker 1: but you know, they would just they would just go

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Speaker 1: at it. And here I am, and I'm writing this

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Speaker 1: chapter on how to be a happier parent and sibling relationships,

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Speaker 1: and I'm just thinking I'm gonna have to give the

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Speaker 1: advance back because I cannot be happier. Yeah, like we

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Speaker 1: are never, ever, ever, ever going to be happier. So

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Speaker 1: it's a huge advantage to be writing a book at

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Speaker 1: that point, because I basically went and bought a huge

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Speaker 1: stack of books about raising siblings, of which some of

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Speaker 1: my favorites. I'm gonna miss people, but certainly sibling siblings

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Speaker 1: without rivalry is really Oh I've heard that's good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that one's high on my list. And I also just

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Speaker 1: started calling people I called those people I called I

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Speaker 1: called every expert that I could come up with, and

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Speaker 1: I was just like, you know, what, what is this?

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Speaker 1: What can I what should I do? And the interesting upshot,

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Speaker 1: the sort of long story short, is that the answer

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Speaker 1: was I needed to just stop doing much of anything.

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Speaker 1: If you see something, you don't have to say something.

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Speaker 1: That turned out to be one of the mantras. So

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Speaker 1: the deal was for us. And this is I mean

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Speaker 1: just sort of to take this to the larger level

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Speaker 1: of if you've got battling siblings when they when they're little,

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Speaker 1: you really do have to you have to get in there. Well,

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Speaker 1: you sort of have two choices. You can either let them,

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Speaker 1: let them alone and not go in there, and because

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Speaker 1: you just can't at that moment, but if you can

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Speaker 1: go in, you have to really be like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: you know, Laura, you want to build with blocks, but

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Speaker 1: Sarah's in the mood to kick over box. What are

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Speaker 1: what are we going to do about it? You know,

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Speaker 1: give them each time to try to go Laura, I

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Speaker 1: hear you saying that Sarah has kicked over your block.

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Speaker 1: You know, sort of do all the things that are

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Speaker 1: the the quintessential mockery things that you know, parents need

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Speaker 1: to say, but you really do need to say that.

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Speaker 1: You need to get to the to the point where,

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Speaker 1: even if they won't admit it, they can see each

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Speaker 1: other's perspective. And you have to do that sort of

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Speaker 1: again and again and again until you're pretty convinced that

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Speaker 1: even when they're still knocking over each other's blocks. And

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Speaker 1: you know, as I said, if my seventeen year old

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Speaker 1: builds a block tower, it's quite possible my twelve. Of course,

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Speaker 1: my twelve year old would knock it over. Once you're

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Speaker 1: pretty convinced that they can see each other's perspective, that's

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Speaker 1: the point when you have to you have to just

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Speaker 1: let them, even if it sounds awful, even if it

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Speaker 1: sounds wrong, Even if the seventeen year old is shrieking,

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Speaker 1: you have a fat butt, and the the twelve year

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Speaker 1: old is shrieking, you don't have any friends unless those

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Speaker 1: are like massive emotional no goes in your house. You

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Speaker 1: really just need to go and put some headphones on

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Speaker 1: and let them work it out. And that's what I

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Speaker 1: needed to do. It's gotten better, it has, it's totally

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Speaker 1: actually now it's my youngest son and my youngest daughter

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Speaker 1: who do this a little bit more so we're still

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Speaker 1: in the throes of siblingness, but that particular relationship. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it really once, you know, I kept taking sides. I

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Speaker 1: didn't mean to take sides, but it always seems like

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Speaker 1: somebody's right right. It is hard. I would say it's

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Speaker 1: very hard because I always feel like, yeah, my two

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Speaker 1: older fight all the time, and it's like someone usually

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Speaker 1: is kind of more in the wrong. But you're right

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Speaker 1: if I if you can resist kind of being there,

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Speaker 1: be a little more neutral, be a little bit make

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Speaker 1: it their problem to figure it out. Well, the advice

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Speaker 1: I got was to either sort of you had two choices,

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Speaker 1: and the first choice is both of you are making

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Speaker 1: your me crazy. You go sit in the closet, you

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Speaker 1: go sit in the garage. You know, a universal both

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Speaker 1: of you or both of you stop it, or that's it,

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Speaker 1: I'm turning the TV off. Just something that really and

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Speaker 1: you have to be sort of careful with that last one,

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Speaker 1: because it could be that one of them really wants

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Speaker 1: the TV off, but but something that applies to them

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Speaker 1: both or you have to just you have to just

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Speaker 1: walk away. And I really was. I mean, usually one

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Speaker 1: or the other of them was pretty right. But the

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Speaker 1: thing is you never know. I mean, you don't know

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Speaker 1: what happened before, you don't know what happened an hour ago.

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Speaker 1: You just have to let them. They have there, they

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Speaker 1: have their relationships apart from you, and you have to

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Speaker 1: let that develop. And I would also say that it's

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Speaker 1: possible the siblings will never be best friends, and that's okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: don't They don't have to be best friends. I just

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Speaker 1: you know, need to be able to be in the

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Speaker 1: house with yeah, both of them. Well, there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of great ideas in here. I mean, Sarah, you

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Speaker 1: have a few questions in here that you wanted to Oh, well,

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Speaker 1: I love I want I know you mentioned the chor

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Speaker 1: chapter and I definitely enjoyed that chapter a lot, and

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Speaker 1: it made me want to rethink some of the things

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Speaker 1: we do because we have not you know, and that's

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Speaker 1: something that Laura and I have talked about. When you

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Speaker 1: have we both have like I have a nanny who

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Speaker 1: does a lot of our chores, and then our kids

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Speaker 1: see that happening, and you know, how do I make

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Speaker 1: sure that they're also learning to do things for themselves.

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Speaker 1: So I liked a lot of your ideas there, and

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Speaker 1: then I definitely want you to talk more about travel,

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Speaker 1: because I like that chapter and we're about to embark

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Speaker 1: on a pretty crazy adventure pretty soon, so I could

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Speaker 1: use all the tips I can get. Well, let's let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the chores first, because you do a year

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Speaker 1: a yearly chor assignment. We do now. So first of

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Speaker 1: the thing I want to say about chores is that

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Speaker 1: it took both writing this chapter and then editing this chapter,

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Speaker 1: and then copy editing this chapter and then reading it

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Speaker 1: aloud for the audiobook for me to really feel like

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Speaker 1: everything that I had learned from other people had soaked

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Speaker 1: in and for us to start change. We changed this

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Speaker 1: up constantly, and I finally feel like we're kind of

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Speaker 1: The thing about chores is well, I mean, there's a

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Speaker 1: bunch of things about chores, but one of the thing

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Speaker 1: about chores is, honestly, this one's on you. Their homework

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Speaker 1: is their problem, Their relationship with their siblings is their problem.

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Speaker 1: But if they're not doing chores, it's really because we're

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Speaker 1: not making them. There's just there's nothing. There's nothing more

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Speaker 1: to it than that, And I hate that that totally sucks.

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Speaker 1: Why can't it be that they're just lazy, terrible, terrible people,

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Speaker 1: but who would do chores if if someone wasn't you know,

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Speaker 1: they don't feel the same things that we feel. They

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Speaker 1: don't feel like sink full of dishes is a judgment

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Speaker 1: on their humanity and their you know, their their personhood

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Speaker 1: or or whatever. It just doesn't bother them. So if

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Speaker 1: you want it done, you really have to you have

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Speaker 1: to insist that they do it, and that is really hard,

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Speaker 1: especially if you have someone who can help, but you

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Speaker 1: the yearly assignment though, it gives people the chance to

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Speaker 1: become masters, right right. So that was something I learned

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Speaker 1: as I wrote this is that every a lot of

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Speaker 1: the people that I talked to who felt really good,

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Speaker 1: who were like, oh, yeah, I cauls help around the house,

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Speaker 1: you know, which causes you to like roll your eyes

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Speaker 1: and follow over, said that's that's how they did it.

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Speaker 1: They had a year long assignment and we shifted our

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Speaker 1: actually have ended up being more like sort of sixty

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Speaker 1: so it'll be like the school year and then the

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Speaker 1: summer and then the next school year. But the deal

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Speaker 1: with that is they get to get really good at it,

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Speaker 1: they get to make it a habit it all. You know,

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Speaker 1: you have to pick things that have to happen, in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, daily and pretty much at the same time

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Speaker 1: to have an expectation that it will really happen because

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Speaker 1: they get older, you could probably you know, maybe laundry

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Speaker 1: doesn't happen. To happen, it have to happen at the

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Speaker 1: same time every day. And also you sort of get

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Speaker 1: a little more room to cut them some slack. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if if they're at a sports practice and you end

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Speaker 1: up loading the dish washer the next night, they're still

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Speaker 1: going to load the dishwasher. I mean, you have to

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Speaker 1: be careful about that because we don't we parents are

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Speaker 1: really we cut our kids a lot of slack and

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Speaker 1: we pretend we don't, you know, so loading the dishwasher

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Speaker 1: would be what are examples of chores that could be

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Speaker 1: assigned for the year, like, yeah, are and these are

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Speaker 1: so little and tiny, and that is okay. I mean, realistically,

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Speaker 1: I have somebody that cleans my house too, and so

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Speaker 1: the chores aren't cleaning the bathroom and they don't how

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Speaker 1: to clean a bathroom. And I'm gonna let the idea

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Speaker 1: that they will do it every week for the moment

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Speaker 1: and letting that go. So our chores are pretty small.

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Speaker 1: Every morning somebody has to unload the dishwasher twice a day.

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Speaker 1: Somebody has to take you know, somebody has to feed

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Speaker 1: our four indoor pets. And then we have outside animals

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Speaker 1: that somebody has to go out and deal with once

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Speaker 1: a day. So those that's like they're daily the daily

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Speaker 1: task is nothing more than that. Oh, and then taking

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Speaker 1: out the trash. I was gonna say, there's four of them,

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Speaker 1: so shouldn't there be four or that was Actually it's

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Speaker 1: a little tough because there aren't really four. But really, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they are empty the dishwasher, feed the animals in the morning,

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Speaker 1: feed the animals at night, and take out the trash.

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Speaker 1: Those are those are sort of the main four that

415
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Speaker 1: really truly have to happen every day, and so the

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Speaker 1: same person does it. And and then on top of that,

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Speaker 1: every night after dinner, everybody has to stay in the

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Speaker 1: kitchen until the kitchen is cleaned. And that's a really

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Speaker 1: hard because they finish at different times. And then they're like,

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Speaker 1: but I have homework in the case of one of them,

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Speaker 1: but I have to go to the bathroom. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: are all onto you. You know, it's a very adjustive thing.

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Speaker 1: You gotta go. Yeah, it's very so we'll wait, will wait,

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Speaker 1: will wait? Well, Ann, I mean, the book is about

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Speaker 1: being a happier parent, How to be a happier parent,

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Speaker 1: And one of the hang ups with the chore thing

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Speaker 1: is that you have to keep asking. And I think

428
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:58,679
Speaker 1: some people have this idea the holy grail is that

429
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,360
Speaker 1: you don't have to ask that the kids the chore.

430
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 1: I thought it, which may be setting yourself up for failure.

431
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 1: That's a totally different thing. That's a totally different thing.

432
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: If you accept that, you will always still have to

433
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: be asking, but it will get done. Yeah, that's a

434
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 1: different You're exactly can succeed. And yeah, you have to

435
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,439
Speaker 1: separate those two things. There's the I want you to

436
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 1: do this instead of me, and then there's the I

437
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 1: want you to do it without being reminded. And I

438
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,440
Speaker 1: have talked to so many people who have been like, yeah,

439
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: that second part, you get that when they're nineteen and

440
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 1: you just have to let it. You just have to

441
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,880
Speaker 1: let it go. That's that's not a piece of it.

442
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: You know, I have to And it depends on the

443
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 1: kid too, I literally, and it's not about you. In

444
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: this case, I have one child who will put a

445
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 1: dish in the dishwasher every single time. I never have

446
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: to ask. I have another who will never do it ever. Ever,

447
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 1: every single day I go and get that child and

448
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,640
Speaker 1: I say, you left your dishes from lunch every day,

449
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 1: every day without fail, same kids, same raising basically the

450
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: same age. Makes me crazy. Yeah, you know, I think

451
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,160
Speaker 1: there is going to having multiple kids where you can

452
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 1: take your own personal responsibility out of it, right Like

453
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: you you can't feel guilty that you did a bad

454
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: job training them when one of them does an amazing

455
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 1: job and one of them is Apparently neither of those

456
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 1: things is on me. But exactly the right way. This

457
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 1: makes you happier, there is say it because one of

458
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: the things that makes people unhappy as parents feeling like

459
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: you were doing all the work and you have no

460
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: time for fun because you know you're doing the dishes

461
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 1: while everyone else is watching TV or whatever it is. Well,

462
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: and also that thing you said where you feel like

463
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 1: you're raising these entitled little kids that no one will want.

464
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: You know, you feel like you're raising that college roommate

465
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 1: who just throws the dishes in the sink and hopes

466
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: somebody else does it. Exactly you don't. So some of

467
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: it is you're not doing all the work, and some

468
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 1: of it is also you know, a sense that you're

469
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: actually teaching people to be adult humans in the world,

470
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,479
Speaker 1: which is the goal. Yeah. So, but I like how

471
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 1: your book, your book really does focus on not not

472
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: taking responsibility for making your kids a certain way. No,

473
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: that that is something that can make you feel a

474
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: lot happier, right right, I mean, you know, to some extent,

475
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: deciding that be your own happiness is an important part

476
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 1: of your family life, which it definitely is. That's kind

477
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: of risky because it means letting go of the outcomes

478
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 1: with your kids. You can't you can't make your own

479
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: happiness dependent on them getting good grades or getting all

480
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: their homework done, or making the top sports team or whatever.

481
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: I mean, that's your having its should not be dependent

482
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: on that. But a lot of us, especially when they're little,

483
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: we feel like those are things we can control, and

484
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: you know you can. You could do all their homework

485
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: for people do. It's it's out there. I say, your

486
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 1: podcast co host hays a whole book about that. She does.

487
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: But it's out there more than you would think. And

488
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: you know, when you say I want to I want

489
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: this family to be like a happy source of refuge,

490
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 1: a part of my life. I want to feel joy,

491
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 1: you know, I want I want this to be I

492
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: want this to be a good thing. Part of what

493
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 1: you need to do is sort of let go and

494
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 1: let them be. Like I'm waving my arms around a

495
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,239
Speaker 1: little inner inner planets, you know, inner orbiting with you,

496
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: but not that you. You can't control everything that they're

497
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: doing and be happy. I don't think I believe it.

498
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: I love that. Let's talk about travel then, because yeah,

499
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 1: Sarah really wants her tips for having a happy family vacation. Okay,

500
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: you know this one tip is so silly, but a

501
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: lot of people have come back to me with it.

502
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: Take turns being grumpy. What does that mean? What it means?

503
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: You know, trips are stressful. Somebody's going to be the

504
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: one stressed at the airport, or the one stressed because

505
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: there aren't direction. One of the kids is going to

506
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: be the one who is stressed because you're not getting

507
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: where they thought they were going to be at the

508
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: right time. And some kids get really upset about that.

509
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: You know, some kids are just stressed by being out

510
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: of their element. And the thing is that stress and

511
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 1: anxiety are so totally contagious. So when you are, you know, standing,

512
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 1: I'm trying. I'm just gonna go with the airport. So

513
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 1: when you're at the airport and the plane is running

514
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: late and your spouse or partner is going on, we're

515
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: gonna miss the connecting flight and they're getting all, you know,

516
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: you can sort of all join in with that and

517
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: all get really, but it's not helpful. So the better

518
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: course and maybe the flight's not the best example. But

519
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: I mean sometimes it's just as stupid as like I

520
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: can't find I just had my hair brush. I just

521
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 1: had it in my hand. Where did I put the

522
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: hair brush? And the thing is to just let the

523
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,479
Speaker 1: person sort of have their little temper tanter me moment

524
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: and step out of it yourself, and even to say

525
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 1: to kids, you know, it's actually we were standing at

526
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,360
Speaker 1: It wasn't the Grand Canyon, but that was our most

527
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: recent family vacation. We did the Grand Canyon and all

528
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: the surrounding national parks and were literally sanding there and

529
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: my husband was upset about something and I turned to

530
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: one of the kids and I was like, all right,

531
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: it's daddy's turn to be grumpy right now, and we're

532
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 1: just you're just gonna let him get through this and

533
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: then he's gonna be fine. And some parents standing next

534
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: to me was like, I love that it's daddy's turning

535
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: to be grumpy right now. I do like that. You

536
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: don't allow it. You don't allow somebody's minor misery to

537
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: catastrophize the whole scene. Thank you for putting that in

538
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: a much shorter phrase. But I like it. I think

539
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 1: it's a great idea. Yes, yeah, but it's just it's

540
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: just true. And I feel like I know that my

541
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: little snits about the hairbrush or whatever are temporary, but

542
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: sometimes when it's my kid or my partner, I feel like,

543
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: oh my god, the whole vacation is gonna be ruined

544
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,959
Speaker 1: because they're upset. You just you really catastrophye somebody else's

545
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: emotions when really theirs are just as fleeting as yours.

546
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: They get over it. Yeah, yeah, And you can choose

547
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: which narrative you want to take, the one where you

548
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: know everything's sliding into its and every or you know

549
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: that bump and that bump, but in between it, we're all, okay,

550
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: I will keep that in mind. I'm gonna need it well.

551
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: And another big piece I think of a happy family vacation,

552
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,479
Speaker 1: especially with young kids, is to leave give yourself a

553
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: lot of buffer. So don't plan a lot of things

554
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: that are really packed in tightly next to each other.

555
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: You know, if you think it's going to take a

556
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: half an hour to get from place A to place B,

557
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: leave an hour and a half. I mean, you know,

558
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: leave some room to stop for snacks, Leave some room

559
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: for that. One of our children says, are we almost there?

560
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: And what that really translates to is I have to

561
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: go to the bathroom. But we were just somewhere where

562
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: there was a bathroom and I didn't go. And I

563
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: know you're gonna be mad at me. You know, you

564
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: got to leave room if you the more buffer you

565
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: can leave, sort of, the more slack you could put

566
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: in the whole schedule, I think, the happier everybody's gonna be.

567
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: I love it. Are you gonna do that? And I

568
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: liked your list of I loved your list of You

569
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: talked about like finding the things that you like to

570
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: do in each place, not necessarily pay attention to like

571
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: what the hot thing or like the stereotypical thing to visit,

572
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: but like you kJ specifically like to see bookstores and

573
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: something else. And if you get to do one of

574
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: those things that you like to do, then it's a success, right,

575
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: And you know, not everything should be not everything should

576
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: be kid focused. This is so key. Even if you

577
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: have little kids and you're heading off to Disney World,

578
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: there's probably something you'd like to do that is not

579
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: that huge on their list. Not only should you do that,

580
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: but if it's age appropriate, they should come along. Because

581
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: like learning to enjoy things sort of on behalf of

582
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: someone you love. That's that's huge, and that's important. And

583
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: watching someone you love enjoy something that they you know,

584
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: that's their thing, that should bring that brings us happiness.

585
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,239
Speaker 1: And you need to give kids sort of give them

586
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: enough respect to realize that they don't necessarily have to

587
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: you know, not every minute has to be Harry Potter.

588
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be an entertainment. You're not responsible

589
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: for twenty four to seven entertainment. Please no, no, I know,

590
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's good, that's great. Did you have anything

591
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: else on the book, Sarah that we wanted to know?

592
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: But I want to say, oh yes, I was going

593
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: to say, you know what, I think I might so

594
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: I have this parenting book club that I started, and

595
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: I think I might use your book. I think your

596
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: book might be a good a good one, because I

597
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: think there was enough in it to discuss. And I

598
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: will say to anyone, you know, there are a lot

599
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: of books out there these days that this book is

600
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: very fun to read. And that's huge, because you know

601
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: what it's like to hear about a book on parenting

602
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: that sounds really cool, but then you read ten pages

603
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, do I really have to read this?

604
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: But this one's like entertaining, thank you, So I highly

605
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: recommend it makes you feel bad either. I mean, no,

606
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: it doesn't. It makes you feel good and it's fun

607
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: to read. At some point trying to figure out like,

608
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: you know, I knew I wanted to write a book

609
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: that that sort of brought together the past five or

610
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: six years, well really more in the past decade of

611
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: talking to other parents and interviewing and parent journalism, and

612
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: I kind of thought about I mean, I thought about

613
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: a lot of things, including like just you know, a

614
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: journalistic look at our societal non complete total failure to

615
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: support families, which has been written. It's it's out there.

616
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: Those are out there and they're great, but one of

617
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: the things I one of my original thoughts was something

618
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: about like having more fun is a family. And as

619
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: I sort of started to make a list of, well

620
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: what would things be they make things more fun, I

621
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: just got like less and less, you know, it's just

622
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: like a list of more things to do. And I

623
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: was like, I don't want to do more things. I

624
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: just want to be less things things. And I don't

625
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: even necessarily yeah, I kind of do want to do

626
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: less things, but mostly I just want to feel better

627
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: about the stuff I'm already doing. Please don't make me

628
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: like be present or I mean, I try to do

629
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: those things, but don't don't make me be present or

630
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: don't make me like, you know, add one outing with

631
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: an individual child every week, or or you know, make

632
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: a point of of, you know, having a family ritual

633
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: dinner or something. I mean, some of those things are great.

634
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 1: And if those are things that you want to do

635
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: and you're already doing them, then you know, let's let's

636
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: make them better. But realistically, if you wanted to do

637
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: those things, you'd probably already be doing, so I don't

638
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: really tell you to do anything. She wants to enjoy

639
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: the enjoyable, right you can't enjoy every minute, no try,

640
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: but you can enjoy the enjoyable, which is which is

641
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: always good. So I think this brings us to our

642
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: Q and A. I mean, so we're just doing the

643
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: whole episode with kJ here so she can wait. Yeah,

644
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: so maybe kJ can weigh in. Yeah, that'd be great.

645
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: Did you want to read it, sir, because it sure, yes,

646
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: it came. I think it came to me. I don't remember,

647
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: but anyway, here it is. You mentioned having child care

648
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: help on the weekend, and that's I don't do that

649
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: every weekend. But going on call eyther way like, because

650
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: you even if it was just because she wanted to

651
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: go for a run, that would be okay. That would

652
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: be okay too, Or if I wanted to hang out

653
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: with one kid and want to care for the others,

654
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: which could actually absolutely happen too, or if I want

655
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: a time for myself and get whatever happens. By the way,

656
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: so I can see how that would be super super

657
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: helpful or necessary. But I am just really curious if

658
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: you ever get tired of being around other adults as

659
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: far as babysitters or Nannie's go, is there much personal

660
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: dynamic to deal with their just curious and would love

661
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: to hear about it if you have something to say,

662
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: so I'll answer it first. And we've talked about like

663
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,239
Speaker 1: I am an extrovert, so I don't know if that

664
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: like colors my answer. It has never bothered me at all.

665
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: So I don't have a lot of helpful things to

666
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: say except that, I mean, part of this is that

667
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: we haven't nanny that we truly love, and she's I

668
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: don't know if she can hear me right now. I

669
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: don't think she can in the other room with our baby.

670
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: She's someone I'm happy to hang out with, and you

671
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: know that's part of why we, you know, continue to

672
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: have her as a sort of contributing member to our family.

673
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: So I am never bothered. And if I want to

674
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: be alone, then I just would go for a run,

675
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,719
Speaker 1: or I would kindly say, like, oh, I really need

676
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: the house to myself for whatever reason. Can you guys

677
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: go to the museum or something, because at some point

678
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: my kids might get stir crazy anyway, But it's not

679
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: something that's felt. I think I did before having an

680
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: any think that this might be something that would bother me,

681
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: but it has not one bit. What about you guys, yeah,

682
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: I would say that. I mean, it's actually one of

683
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: the things I hire for though, because I do work

684
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 1: at home, and so I know that the other person

685
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: will be there while I'm there. So first I'm very

686
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 1: straightforward about it in my hiring process. I say I'm

687
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: going to be there, because some people don't want that

688
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: at all, like they actually, you know, they want to

689
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: make sure. I say, you're running the show, but I

690
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: will be there in my office. You know, some people

691
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 1: are for whatever reason that that's not the situation they want.

692
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: But I'm also hiring them for somebody that I can

693
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: tag team with a lot between our four kids, that

694
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: we're passing off kids from this to that, or you know,

695
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: we're all together doing something or you know. So I

696
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 1: would say, because I have done that, then I'm not

697
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: really that worried about it either. And like you, I

698
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: would go for a run or go to a coffee

699
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: shop if I needed to be on my own away

700
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: from them. kJ what is well, so my kid my

701
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: kids are older now, so things are different. I planned

702
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: for this because I actually am I am, but I

703
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: need time when there's no one I need time when

704
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 1: there's no one but me in the house and I

705
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: need time, which is sometimes hard to pull off. With fortunes,

706
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 1: it's deeply hard to pull off. And also I find

707
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: it's pretty successful for me now to have time when

708
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: only the kids that are in the house, because that's

709
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: a little bit different. But when we actually have the

710
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: same it's the same person as it's always been. But

711
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: I used to just plan days. I would sort of

712
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: set the week up and be like, and on Tuesday,

713
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: you guys are all going to do whatever. And so

714
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,919
Speaker 1: I just sort of took my need for that into

715
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: account and made sure if I could that every week

716
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: there was a space where, you know, even if it

717
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: was just for an hour or two, there wasn't anyone

718
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: else in the house, because I do find I do

719
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 1: find having other adults around constantly find I find having

720
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: other humans around constantly difficult. And yet four kids, Yeah, yeah,

721
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: I'll do it. So now we have our love of

722
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: the week, so we always do a segment to explain

723
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: to kJ that we say something that is making us

724
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: happy on this particular week. And I am laughing about

725
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: Sarah's from her note. Yeah, sometimes they're high brow, sometimes

726
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: they're low brow, sometimes they're random. This one's I don't

727
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: know all of those. Anybody watch Glow Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling.

728
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: I did not. It's the best show ever. Well, then

729
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 1: you're missing out. Oh I don't know Glow. So it's

730
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 1: on Netflix. It's a series. Glow stands for Gorgeous Ladies

731
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: of Wrestling, which was an actual thing in the eighties,

732
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 1: and it's set in the eighties. And the outfits alone

733
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: are like a reason it's so good. And season two

734
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: was even better than season one, and I just if

735
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,240
Speaker 1: you want like a total candy TV show, I highly

736
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: recommend it. And my husband and I actually both really

737
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: enjoy watching it together. And there's only a very few

738
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 1: series that fit that criteria. So yeah, shout out to Glow.

739
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 1: Love it. What about you, guys? Do you want to

740
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: go first? Do you want me to go first? I

741
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 1: have been. There's a podcast that I that I love,

742
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: but it's I guess it's somewhere. It's called a Kimbo

743
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: and it's seth Godin and every week just you know,

744
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: sort of riffs for twenty minutes on. It's typically vaguely

745
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: connected to marketing or learning to do things better or whatever,

746
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: but it's just he clearly really thinks, deeply about something

747
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: and he comes up with these unusual examples, and yeah,

748
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 1: I just I just enjoy it. It's kind of almost

749
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: a meditative listen. It doesn't you know, it makes you

750
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 1: think without it's it's not political, it's not you know,

751
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: it doesn't get you fired up. It's just interesting, just interesting. Well,

752
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: that's cool. I don't know that this is something that

753
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: I've been loving per se, but I've really enjoyed watching

754
00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,919
Speaker 1: everyone else in my family love it. Which is Shark Week,

755
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 1: which is on while we are taping this, which is

756
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: just so campy in many ways. They keep trying to

757
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: figure out how they can take this time where people

758
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 1: are paying attention to the Discovery Channel and you know,

759
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: make it some moment of the Shaquille O'Neal and the

760
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: Shark Tank, Shack and the shark because this is what

761
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: it was, you know, after doing Michael Phelps or before

762
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: they put like the Sharks of Shark Tank and the

763
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: Shark they may I'm sure they did, because the celebrities

764
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 1: into it. I've read that one of the sharks of

765
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: Shark Take had his had a had a wet suit

766
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: made that looked like his business suit, which that's kind

767
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: of awesome as one does, as one does, and you know,

768
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: I I guess it was I was actually asking somebody

769
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 1: who was, you know, frequent diver and work with sharks

770
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: in the past about the thoughts on this, you know,

771
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 1: is it good or bad? And so well, it's really

772
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 1: what you come into it with, right, if you're into

773
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: you love animals and you're in to preservation, conservation like

774
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: certainly gets more attention for these amazing creatures and that's awesome.

775
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: Probably there's some other people who are more of the

776
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: Jaws perspective and they're coming to it from that, so

777
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: it probably doesn't change. It doesn't change anything. It's like

778
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 1: technology because it's a conveyor for your pre existing ideas,

779
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: existing ideas about sharks. So with celebrities thrown in, but

780
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: I've enjoyed seeing everyone in my family except me watch

781
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 1: so very meta of you, very meta of me. Anyway,

782
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: Can I love one more? Yes? Of course you gets yeah,

783
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: called Amanda Wakes Up. It's by Alison Camarota. She was

784
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,879
Speaker 1: a co host on Fox's Fox and Friends and now

785
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: she's the co host of CNN's New Day. And it's like,

786
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: if you liked The Devil Wears pradac about you know,

787
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: the magazine industry. Okay, this is like behind the scenes

788
00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: of the news industry. This it would be pretty good

789
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: for a beach bag, I think. And it's also actually

790
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: it makes you really think about fake news and your

791
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: perception of the journalists and everything like that, which is

792
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: kind of funny because she wrote it before before or

793
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: the twenty sixteen election. That's great. So it's a good read. Yeah,

794
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 1: everybody needs a good read. That's probably more value. I

795
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 1: love my podcast, but that was that's probably more immediately. Well,

796
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:23,919
Speaker 1: so you've got a bonus love of the week. You've

797
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: listened all the way through to this episode. You got

798
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: a bonus. So it could be a happier parent right

799
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: now because you had that. That's right. Well, we've been

800
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: talking to kJ Delantonia about how to be a happy

801
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 1: year parent. We've been doing this live. She's sitting here

802
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: with me in her hotel room in Philadelphia when she's

803
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 1: here for podcast movement, but turn in. We've enjoyed doing

804
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: this and we'll be back next week with more on

805
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 1: making work and life fit together. Thanks for listening. You

806
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or

807
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: at the Underscore shoe Box on Instagram and you can

808
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has

809
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us

810
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: next time for more on making work and life work

811
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: together