1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: One of the first things I noticed when I walk 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: into Pennington Biomedical Research Center is a giant stained glass window. 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: It's filled with images of healthy living cast in rainbow colors. 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: You see there are two wheels here, and there is 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: a cyclist on on the top, and then there is 6 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: all kinds of fruits and vegetable. I mean, it's it's 7 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: quite a nice piece of art. The stained glass window 8 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: towers above a Pennington entryway. Brightly colored shards of glass 9 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: depict asparagus, bananas, peace, and a pineapple. The outline of 10 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: a runner cuts through the background, painted in shades of 11 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: orange and purple. And then there's a DNA DNA on 12 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: the right. There are blue and pink fish at the bottom, 13 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: canteloupe on the side. The longer I stare, the more 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,119 Speaker 1: bowls of healthy living reveal themselves. But it's all about 15 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: what we do. I mean, you know health, genetics and biology, 16 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: and you have you have all the elements of nutrition, 17 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: you have the exercise, you have the d n A. 18 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: The whole thing makes the place feel like a temple 19 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: to nutrition, because it kind of is. Pennington is a 20 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 1: sprawling research center working to study obesity. Our tour guide 21 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: today is Eric Ravasan, a prominent scientist in the space 22 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: who is Associate executive director for Clinical Science at Pennington. 23 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: He's the one talking me through all of the stuff 24 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: in this very large stained glass window. Stained glass is 25 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: obviously more a feature of churches, but the religious symbolism 26 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: is sort of fitting. Really, this is a place that 27 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: treats weight loss as a sort of gospel. Pennington has 28 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: two acres of campus, including labs and research facilities, around 29 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: two hundred scientists and state of the art equipment, much 30 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: of it dedicated to unlocking the secrets to shedding pounds. 31 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: It's in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and it feels like a 32 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: college campus minus the students. I've been on a journey 33 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,519 Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of the science of weight loss, 34 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: and as our stained glass windows shows, weight loss is 35 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: something we all have lots of ideas about. Some of 36 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: those ideas are actually true, but they're all too often 37 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: not the whole truth. If anyone could help us sort 38 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: one from the other, I figured it would be the 39 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 1: people here. First, though, We're going to take a look around. 40 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: That's part of the way you test. Participants are like, 41 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: we're walking up to the fourth floor. Yeah, we got. 42 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: Our first stop is to check out some fairly innoxious 43 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: looking medical machinery. It's big and gray and looks almost 44 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: like a bed. And is this the machine beginning now? 45 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: It started already. Radiation is on right now because you 46 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: can see the lagser on saying in a radiation is 47 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: that this equipment can actually tell you how much of 48 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: your body is fat, and how much of it is muscle, 49 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: and how much is bone. I want to call it 50 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: a nightmare machine. It's the scan no one wants to 51 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: see of themselves. But what this equipment really measures is 52 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: body composition. And the total of this person here is 53 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: thirty points six of the body is fat. We often 54 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: talk about the number on the scale like it's the 55 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: only thing that matters, but this is a good reminder 56 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:03,119 Speaker 1: that wheat isn't every thing. That's why weight loss researchers 57 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: use tools like these body composition machines. And a big 58 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: finding they've had is that people vary a lot. People's 59 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: bodies are different, really really different, and that's actually at 60 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: the root of a lot of the findings they've made 61 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: here at Pennington. But first, back to the tour, We 62 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: check out a big area known as a metabolic kitchen, 63 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 1: where calorically precise foods are prepared for studies, and we 64 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: walk by spaces that look like hospital rooms. They're also 65 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: used for research. Eventually we get to the craziest stop 66 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: on the tour. We step into a hall that looks 67 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: into small furnished rooms to seek a curtain and the 68 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,239 Speaker 1: bed and you have everything could be happy, and there's Stevie. 69 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: They look like really sad studio apartments. Even though there's furniture, 70 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: the rooms are sterile looking. There aren't exactly many homey touches. 71 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: That's because they're actually rooms where scientific research happens. They're 72 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: called metabolic chambers, and they measure metabolism. Like the name suggests, 73 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: these sad little rooms are designed to measure how many 74 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: calories the person inside is burning. People stay in them 75 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: for a good chunk of time, thus all the furniture. 76 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: Eric also points out that they have windows. We fast 77 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 1: the food and uh and you know through here outside 78 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: of the metabolic chambers, in the hallway where we're standing, 79 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: a bunch of pipes and scientific instruments line the walls. 80 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 1: It kind of looks like a boiler room or something. 81 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: This equipment track everything going on in the little rooms. 82 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: Cool right, Maybe a little creepy too. Eric tells me 83 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: that there are only about thirty metabolic chambers in the 84 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: world thirty, and Pennington is home to four of them. 85 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: When we arrive, there's actually a woman in one of 86 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: the rooms already. She's sitting on the bed. It looks 87 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,119 Speaker 1: like she's scrolling on her phone. Maybe in a little 88 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 1: while she'll go use the adjoining toilet. Watching the stranger 89 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: live her life in a little box while equipment measures 90 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: what's going on inside her body is pretty weird, Even 91 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: if it is for science. The whole thing feels a 92 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: bit dystopian. It makes me think of like a lab 93 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,559 Speaker 1: rate in a maze or something. Now she probably can't 94 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: see this, but a computer screen right behind Eric and 95 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: I actually shows how many calories she's burning on a 96 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: minute by minute basis. A chart shows us how that 97 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: rate is changing over time. Eric tells me that while 98 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: the woman slept, she burned just under a calorie a minute. 99 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: Then I would say she got up here. He's saying 100 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: that because we can see on the screen that at 101 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: this point her metabolism jumps. People tend to burn more 102 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: calories as they become more active. She went to brush 103 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: your teeth, you know, metabolious me here goes to three 104 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: calories a minute. Then you can see and at the 105 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: end of the day we summarize how many calories she 106 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: has doing. The real work of the metabolic chamber is 107 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: happening silently in the air, because the chamber is actually 108 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: tracking how much oxygen the woman in the room is 109 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: taking in and how much carbon dioxide she's breathing out. 110 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: I Well, both oxygen and carbon dioxide are involved in 111 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: the process of converting food into usable energy. A little 112 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: math and toda, you have calories burned. This is all 113 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: part of metabolism, something we usually think about only in 114 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: terms of how fast we gain or lose weight, and 115 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: that's definitely part of it, but metabolism is also what 116 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: keeps us alive and kicking, something that we should celebrate 117 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: not blame. You know how people are always talking about 118 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: calories in calories out. A metabolic chamber is a very 119 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: precise way of calculating the calories out. Part. Technology like 120 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: this is really important at places like Pennington where researchers 121 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: are digging into the secrets of weight loss. And by 122 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: the way, some of what they've learned, is that calories in, 123 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: calories out is not the whole story, not by a 124 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: long shot. I asked Eric what to make of the 125 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: numbers the metabolic chamber is spitting out? Would another person 126 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: burn three calories a minute doing the same things as 127 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: the woman in the room just now? Like? Did I 128 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: burn that much getting ready this morning? That seems like 129 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: really interesting and even important data to have about yourself. 130 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: If any given way, sex page, and body composition, you 131 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 1: have large variability in between people. Metabolism differs a lot 132 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: by person. In other words, Eric couldn't really say if 133 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: I or another person would burn as many calories a 134 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: minute as the woman in the room. But he tells 135 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 1: me about some research he did way back in the eighties. 136 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: We measured people like in the chambers, re measured them 137 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: five years later and looked at the relationship between the 138 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: metabolism and the weight gain. They gain a lot of weight, 139 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: and we found that a low metabolity create is a 140 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: risk factor for weight game, otherwise known as I have 141 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: a slow metabolism. People love to say I'm gaining weight 142 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: just because I have a slow metabolism. But when we 143 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: say that, do we really know it for sure. No, no, 144 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: that you have to measure it. You have to get 145 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: into one of the sad little rooms. Metabolism isn't a 146 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: straight line. It can change over your lifetime, including as 147 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: you age and when you lose weight. Researchers have learned 148 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: more about that in recent years, and it may help 149 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: explain why dieters overwhelmingly regain weight over time. We'll get 150 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: more into this later. We walk by another suite of 151 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: rooms with a tread mill and stationary bike. Researchers use 152 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: these to push people to their exercise limits. It's kind 153 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: of like a stress test done by a cardiologist, except 154 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: even more intense. Nearby, a person is actually getting biopsies 155 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: taken of her fat and muscle. I watched the lab 156 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:26,719 Speaker 1: tech sitting at her microscope work on a sample. There 157 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: are actual fat and muscle cells in front of her. 158 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: Is there anything you can't measure here? When it comes 159 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: to UM two, obesti, diabetes and cardiovascular disease. I think 160 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: we have it all. One of my co league used 161 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: to say, it's like toys are us for a kid? Uh, 162 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: you know, it's toys are us for a scientist? So yeah, 163 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: you're probably realizing by now that this is a place 164 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: with incredible resources fort etting weight loss. And the thing 165 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: about weight loss is that we all kind of think 166 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: we know the basics. Losing weight is about eating fewer 167 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: calories than you burn calories in calories out right. In 168 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: this episode, I'm going to get to the bottom of 169 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: what we actually know the science of weight loss. How 170 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,479 Speaker 1: it's actually a lot more complicated than that simple formula. 171 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 1: And we're going to try to figure out why, why 172 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: it's so complicated, and why despite that the simple formula 173 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: of calories in calories out keeps getting repeated anyway, not 174 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 1: just by your neighbor or uncle, but by doctors and scientists. 175 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: To do that, we'll start this mecca of weight loss, 176 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:57,959 Speaker 1: but we'll go beyond its walls too. I'm Bloomberg News 177 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: health reporter Emma Court and from the Prognosis podcast. This 178 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: is Losing It. Imagine that you're at the doctor's office 179 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 1: and they tell you to step onto the scale, which 180 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: they invariably do visit after visit. That number is measuring 181 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: not just your bone, muscle, and fat, but also possibly 182 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: your lunch from earlier, your shirt and pants, maybe some 183 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 1: p You can't talk about weight loss without first, making 184 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: sense of weight itself. And what doctors and scientists are 185 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: concerned about is not your clothing or undigested chopped salad, 186 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,199 Speaker 1: or even your bone and muscle. They're worried about fat, 187 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: and specifically a person having too much. So how does 188 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: a person get more body fat? That comes back to calories, 189 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: which we went deep on in our first episode. Remember, 190 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: calories aren't just align on a nutrition label. They are 191 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: source of energy for your body. Calories are the gas 192 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: in your cars fuel tank. Every day we're taking from 193 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: that tank because we gotta um, we gotta move. This 194 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: is Leanne Redman. She's an expert in physiology or how 195 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: human bodies function, and she works for Pennington. We've got 196 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: a digest food we think we just function to every day, 197 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: we've got energy going out of the tank. So every 198 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: day we have to replenish the energy going into the 199 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: tank to keep your weight the same. Ideally, you'd be 200 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: eating around the same number of calories that you burn. 201 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: Lean says, there's a little wiggle room here of about 202 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: a few hundred calories a day. But eat too many 203 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: calories for too long and that energy has to go somewhere. 204 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: It gets stored in the adipose tissue in the body fat, 205 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: and then we gain weight gain atiposity of a time, 206 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: and that eventually leads to obesity. In other words, fat 207 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: is another store of energy. We've demonized it the same 208 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: way we've demonized metabolism, but it actually serves this and 209 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: other really important functions. Still, extra fat can put a 210 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: lot of stress on your body. That's why doctors and 211 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: scientists worry about people having too much fat. A quick 212 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: note about language here. We will be talking a lot 213 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: about weight in this episode, in particular because of the 214 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: stigma and bias about this subject. There are different schools 215 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: of thought about how to talk about it. The fat 216 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: Acceptance movement embraces the term fat. Some doctors and scientists 217 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: favor saying person with obesity. I will talk about it 218 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: as much as possible the way people do themselves. I 219 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: have tried to avoid the terms overweight and obese, though 220 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: I have had to use them at times for clarity's sake, 221 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: times like now. Obesity is usually defined as when a 222 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: person's body mass index is over thirty. As a refresher 223 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: b M I equals weight divided by height squared. The 224 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: number is supposed to be a proxy for body fat. 225 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: But as the formula I just rattled off makes clear, 226 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: b M I doesn't actually rely on your body's measured 227 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: fat composition, just weight and height, and b M I 228 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: is what's overwhelmingly used to talk about weight, like when 229 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: rates of obesity in the US began increasing in the eighties. 230 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: Around this time, government stats show that nearly six of 231 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 1: American adults were considered too heavy increase from an earlier period. 232 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: That judgment was made using b M I, and it 233 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: keeps being made using b M I, and it tells 234 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: us that Americans keep getting heavier. Today, nearly three quarters 235 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: of adults are considered by the government to have higher 236 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: than normal weights. So again, calories matter because extra calories 237 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: can turn into fat. It's that saying that you've heard 238 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: so many times before, calories in calories out. This is 239 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: also something we've known for a long time. When you 240 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: eat just enough food to supply the energy you need, 241 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: your white stays the same. But when you eat more 242 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: than you burn up an energy, the rest is starred 243 00:17:55,400 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: as fact. So is it really just that simple calories 244 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: in calories out. The answer is yes, sort of ish, 245 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: not exactly. Calories in calories out is true, but it's 246 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: also not true. If you're lost right now, that's okay. 247 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: I promise it will all make sense by the end 248 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: of the episode. Remember, we came here to Pennington for 249 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: a reason. We wanted to sort out when it comes 250 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: to wait, what's fact, what's fiction, and what's still a mystery? 251 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: So how do we know that calories in calories out works? 252 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: When you walked through this thing that looked like a 253 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,959 Speaker 1: medical ward to get to the metabolic chambers. This is 254 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: Owen Carmichael. He runs the Biomedical Imaging Center at Pennington. 255 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: So basically some of the fancy machines we've been looking at, 256 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: we've actually had studies where people live there and they 257 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: sleep in the hospital like beds. They're living in a 258 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,439 Speaker 1: what looks like a hospital where they're interacting with a 259 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: lot of nurses and um that they do not have 260 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: a refrigerator that they have free access to. They cannot 261 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: order up snacks. They're in a controlled environment. They're being 262 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: given calorically precise meals. The sprawling Pennington Gym is nearby. 263 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 1: For some people, this might sound like the ideal conditions 264 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: to diet, the v I P diet life, and that's 265 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: exactly what the scientists intended for other people. Of course, 266 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: this might sound more like torture, but anyway, Pennington researchers 267 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: have found that they really, honest to goodness, lose weight, 268 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: and they lose fat, not muscle, So it's good weight loss. 269 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: People lose weight, at least they do when they spend 270 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: that whole time at Pennington. But you can't do that 271 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: for a really long time. Study participants have lives to 272 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 1: get back to, and it's exactly when they do that 273 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: step outside the boundaries of Pennington out into the real world, 274 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 1: that the trouble begins. I think it's very difficult to 275 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: really wrap your head around how seven this thing we 276 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: call the obesogenic environment is that scientists speak for the 277 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: kinds of unhealthy environments that surround us every day. The 278 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: Danish cart on the corner by your office, not having 279 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: a grocery store in your neighborhood, living somewhere with lots 280 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: of cars but no sidewalks. If you're lucky enough to 281 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: have enough to eat, the world can sometimes seem like 282 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: it's shoving a plate of fries down your throat. Seven. 283 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: And while you have some limited ability to decline, that 284 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: metaphorical plate of fries. Not everything is under your control. 285 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: We've all experienced this. I even saw it when I 286 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: was visiting Pennington for this episode. Here I was speaking 287 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: with scientists all day long, talking about the importance of 288 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: healthy eating and portion control and cooking food at home. 289 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 1: And meanwhile, I'm staying in a hotel and eating literally 290 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 1: all of my meals out. And did I mention that 291 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: Pennington is based in Louisiana A fantastic lace into like 292 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: a little peopood. This is a place essentially a full boy. 293 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: I like my overflowing with brad shrimp. That thing is 294 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: as big as you. Everywhere I went, I kept ordering 295 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 1: food without realizing that it was all deep fried. I 296 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,719 Speaker 1: was at lunch one day with a bariatric surgeon who 297 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: works at Pennington, and the waiter rattled off a long 298 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: list of very fried recommendations. Again, my dining companion here 299 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: does weight loss surgery for a living. It was kind 300 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: of surreal. When we finished up, they actually brought us 301 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: a plate of cotton candy, which we had not ordered 302 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: for free. And it's not just the environment around us 303 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: that's making things difficult. It can be us too. Here's 304 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 1: leanne again, So it is definitely ultimately about this imbalancing calories. 305 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: But it's very, very complicated, right because there are so 306 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: many factors that determine what we eat when we you know, 307 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,479 Speaker 1: where we're craving something, whether we're full, whether we're hungry 308 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: or not. And then on the other side, when you 309 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 1: reduce people's calories, they're like, oh, I'm eating less, so 310 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna like, I can, you know, move less? Right, 311 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 1: So they start conserving calories and maybe not as physically active. 312 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: The same is true when people are exercising more, they 313 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: need more calories, and when people start eating less, our 314 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: bodies respond to that. Remember that calories aren't some inconvenient 315 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: aspect of oreos their energy. When you have less energy 316 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:25,719 Speaker 1: coming in, your metabolism slows down. That actually makes sense 317 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: if you think about it. Your body is now smaller, 318 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: so running it moving it around that takes less energy, 319 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: kind of like how smaller cars can be more fuel efficient. 320 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: But studies of contestants on the TV show The Biggest 321 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: Loser have found that metabolism can drop even more than 322 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: you would expect. Pennington researchers were actually involved in those studies, 323 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: including Eric Ravesson, who took us on the tour earlier, 324 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: but we we measured all the people from this season eleven. 325 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: He was quite a riot to go to the ranch 326 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: outside in California. There's a name for this phenomenon of 327 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: metabolism slowing more than expected after weight loss. It's called 328 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: metabolic adaptation. Scientists have also found that after weight loss, 329 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,719 Speaker 1: hormones that regulate hunger and weight can get disrupted for 330 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: long periods of time. These hormonal disruptions and metabolic adaptation 331 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: could help explain why so many people regain weight after dieting. 332 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: In other words, a person goes on a diet, they 333 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: regain the weight later, and people assume it's the dieter's fault. Right, 334 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: It seems pretty logical. After all, they say, oh, she 335 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: stopped eating as many salads, or that he stopped going 336 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: to the gym as much, and maybe they say even 337 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: more unkind things than that. But here's the thing. Scientific 338 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: research tells us that there may actually be a biological 339 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: reason for those things happening. That a dieter could be 340 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: getting really hungry because of hormonal disruptions, that their body 341 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: might actually be burning way fewer calories after weight loss. 342 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: When I first learned about this, It kind of blew 343 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: my mind because there seems to be a scientific explanation 344 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: for why so many dieters regain weight over time. Your 345 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: body is actively fighting back, and that actually makes sense 346 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: if you think about evolution, because bodies need energy to live. 347 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: An energy used to be a lot harder to come by, 348 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: so at the end of the day, it does come 349 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: down to the energy imbalance, the intake, and the expenditure. 350 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: You have to be out of balance in order to 351 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: change weight. But it's all of these other physiological signals 352 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: that are driving the intake and the expenditure that we 353 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: need to understand better in order to be able to 354 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: achieve weight loss for everyone. We're simplifying the science here, 355 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 1: but needless to say, these are complicated things to study, 356 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: and it helps to have a dedicated research facility like 357 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: Pennington with all its bells and whistles focused on it. 358 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: Remember how earlier I said that Pennington feels like a 359 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: college campus. It's actually officially part of Louisiana State University, 360 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: which is also in Baton Rouge a few miles away. 361 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: Back in the nineteen eighties, the head of l s 362 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 1: U got the billionaire oilman Claude Bernard Pennington to commit 363 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five million dollars to start a nutrition 364 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: research center. Over the decades since, the center has been 365 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 1: involved in some of the most cordant research done about 366 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: weight and weight related conditions at the Pennington Biomedical Research 367 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: Center Biomedical Research Center. Researchers from the Pennington Biomedical Research 368 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: Center in Louisiana found Pennington Biomedical Pennington Biomedical Research Center 369 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: Pennington Biomedical Research Center in Baton Rouge, So to summarize, studies, 370 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: including ones done at Pennington, have shown that when people 371 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: eat less, they lose weight. Calories matter pretty self explanatory, 372 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: but as we just talked about, calories also aren't the 373 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: full story. There's this big gulf between what happens in 374 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: research studies at places like Pennington with its gadgets and gizmos, 375 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: and the real world. And scientists are also still learning 376 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: more about how your body seems to fend off long 377 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: term weight loss. So what is all this add up to. 378 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: It means that weight loss is more complicated than advertised, 379 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: a lot more complicated. It also means that losing weight 380 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: isn't fully in a person's control, even though that's how 381 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: we tend to talk about it. Reasons like this are 382 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: why scientists and doctors have started to call obesity a 383 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: disease the same way that diabetes and cancer are diseases. 384 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: And if obesity is a disease, dieting takes on even 385 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: more importance. It's not just a way to lose weight, 386 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: but also a form of medical treatment. And if diets 387 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: are medicine, surely we know what the best diet is 388 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: for a person. Right the Great diet debate, low carb 389 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: or low fat, high fat diets actually may be superior 390 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: to low fat diet. In the low carbohydrate groups, they 391 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: lost about two and a half to five pounds more 392 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: than those in the low fat diet crew. Carbohydrates are 393 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: the single most important thing you can eat for health 394 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: and weight loss. And you're thinking, right now, Dr Hyman, 395 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: have you gotten nuts? Practically each decade has had a 396 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: new dietary villain. First fat was bad, and then carbs 397 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: were bad. Now I think maybe they're both still bad, 398 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: but so is sugar too. Right where did we land 399 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: on all that? I'll answer that in a minute. First though, 400 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: back to Pennington. As I spoke with scientists at the Center, 401 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: I kept feeling like I was going in circles. They 402 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: would tell me how complicated weight loss turns out to be. 403 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: Now there's so much variability between people, and not just 404 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: with burning calories, but in terms of how easily people 405 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: lose or gain weight. Now there's still so much scientists 406 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: are learning. And then I would ask them, well, what 407 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: should people do if they want lose weight? And they 408 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: would say, diet, eat fewer calories. And so I'm going 409 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: to get the person to write down everything that they 410 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: eat and drink for the next five days, and we're 411 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: going to look at where the excess calories are coming from, 412 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: and we're going to start there. I told Leanne how 413 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: confused I was by this. How can it be more 414 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: complicated than calories in calories out? But also that calories 415 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: in calories out is the answer. And then leon tells 416 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: me something that just might haunt me forever. Remember our 417 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: metabolic chamber from earlier, the sad little rooms. She and 418 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: her colleagues at Pennington did a study where they put 419 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: people in there, and the scientists actually over fed these 420 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: people on purpose. They gave them more calories than needed. 421 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: They were trying to make them gain weight, and this 422 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: is what they learned. Some people will burn majority of 423 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: the excess calories that they've eaten, and they're the people 424 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: that will retaine their weight. Some people will burn, will 425 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: burn those extras, some people will burn none. And Leanne 426 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: says they've also found that the opposite is true. When 427 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: you give people less to eat, some people lose weight 428 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: immediately and others just don't. In other words, it's calories in, 429 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: calories out, but only for some people. So what I'm 430 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: taking away from all this is, if you are a 431 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: person who wants to lose weight, we don't have great 432 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: information for you dieting calories in, calories out best. We 433 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: have another way of putting all this is other people 434 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: get to eat as many honey buns from the vending 435 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: machine as they want and just burn it all off. 436 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: But you don't. By the way, there are other options 437 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: for weight loss besides diet, like medication and surgery, but 438 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: they're used a lot less. I was struck by what 439 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: Leanne said. Though, for all the new fingled machinery and 440 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: fancy gadgets we toured earlier, the answer is that we 441 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: still don't have an answer. Even though dieting doesn't work 442 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,959 Speaker 1: in a long term way for many people, dieting is 443 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: still the best we've got, and yet the dogma is 444 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: still why don't you just diet? No uncertainty, no caveats, 445 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: none of the nuance we uncovered here at Pennington. I 446 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: asked Leanne about the uncertainty about the lack of sufficient 447 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: answers a couple of times, until finally she said this. 448 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: You know, we've spent billions of dollars trying to understand 449 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: obesity and white management and how it a fixed people 450 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: and how we can help people, and it just seems 451 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: like it's all going to a black hole because you know, 452 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: even with that huge investment, we have no answers. You 453 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: just heard Leanne Redman, an expert in physiology at Pennington, 454 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: saying that despite all the money that's been invested in 455 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: weight loss, not to mention all the fancy equipment and 456 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: scientists who have spent their careers working on the subject, 457 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: we have no answers. We have no answers. In fact, 458 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: that's exactly why we keep coming back to diets. They're 459 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: not the answer, but they are the closest we've gotten 460 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: to an answer. Then again, there are a lot of 461 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: diets out there. The South Beach diet low fat whole thirty, 462 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: So so many diets, which ones actually work the best? 463 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: I put the question to Christopher Gardner, a nutrition scientist 464 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: at Stanford. This is a super depressing answer that nothing 465 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 1: works because we haven't resolved the obesity epidemic. I know, 466 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: this is getting really frustrating, right. One of the things 467 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: that we do know is that there isn't one diet 468 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 1: for everyone. So people who claim that it's my diet 469 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,320 Speaker 1: or it's the Paleo or the Kido or the something else, 470 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: I just it's not true. Let's say I invented a diet, 471 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 1: it's named after me, obviously, and I go around telling everyone, look, 472 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: this is the diet that's going to finally make you 473 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: lose weight. Basically, what I'm saying is I tried Emma's 474 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: diet and it was awesome, and everybody should try Emma's diet. 475 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: And what I do as a scientist is I get 476 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,959 Speaker 1: a hundred people and I signed fifty two Emma's diet 477 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: and fifty to the other diet. And I have to 478 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: see that, yeah, way more people on diet A work 479 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: than DIETETE and you really doesn't happen. And so what 480 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: we found is that there isn't one diet for everyone. 481 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: The big problem is keeping it up. I don't eat 482 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: carbs until I'm craving them so much that I give in. 483 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,400 Speaker 1: I don't eat out until it starts crushing my social life. 484 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: All diets have at least this in common. What's the 485 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 1: best diet to be on? It's the one you can maintain. 486 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: In other words, if you can keep up a low 487 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: carb diet, power to you, same for a low fat diet. 488 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: But how do you know at the outset which one 489 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: is going to work for you. That's where lots of 490 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: scientists across this field are now channeling their efforts. The 491 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: consensus now is that diets should be individually matched a 492 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 1: person based on different factors about them, kind of like dating. 493 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: My diet biography might say I'm a court journalist, sits 494 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: at a desk all day, works out a few days 495 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:03,359 Speaker 1: a week, loves her kale salads, sweet tooth. But there's 496 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: still a lot missing from that description, things that I 497 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,399 Speaker 1: couldn't tell you, and even Pennington scientists can't use right 498 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: now to match me to a diet, Like what's going 499 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: on in my gut microbiome that's the collection of bacteria 500 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: involved in digestion and metabolism. What about my genetics? Those 501 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 1: are factors that could help you match a person better 502 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: to specific diet or what's known as precision health. But 503 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: it's very hard to find the genetics or the metabolism 504 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: so far that would point you to one diet or another. 505 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: We're not there yet, not by a long shot. Scientists 506 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: are trying to figure it out though. In fact, the 507 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: National Institutes of Health is just starting to fund a 508 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 1: study about this. So again, low fat diets aren't the 509 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:04,280 Speaker 1: best diet it for everyone. Neither is low carb diets 510 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 1: may have to be tailored to the individual. All the 511 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: research on dieting and weight loss over the years has 512 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: brought scientists to this conclusion. I know, I know. But 513 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,240 Speaker 1: the thing is, for all we don't know about weight loss, 514 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: there are some things we do know. We actually know 515 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: a fair amount about the people who lose weight and 516 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: keep it off, what they do, and what it takes. 517 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: There was a sense of it's pretty hopeless, uh and nobody, 518 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: nobody really succeeds in weight management. If you're a based 519 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: you're just out of luck because you know there's not 520 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: much you can do about it. People try to diet 521 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: but it doesn't work. That was James Hill, who is 522 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:55,359 Speaker 1: Chair of Nutrition Sciences at the University of Alabama at Birmingham. 523 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,399 Speaker 1: He's talking about how in the late nineteen eighties rates 524 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: of obesity began rising very suddenly. Remember we talked about 525 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: this earlier, how those rates had been stable beforehand, but 526 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: they've risen and risen until today. And again, as all 527 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 1: this is happening, people are feeling pretty hopeless about losing weight. 528 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 1: So James and his colleague Rena Wayne, who is a 529 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: professor at Brown University's Medical School, decided to start tracking 530 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:32,839 Speaker 1: successful dieters. They created the National Weight Control Registry, which 531 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: people can join if they have lost at least thirty 532 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 1: pounds and kept it off for at least a year. 533 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: There are more than ten thousand members today. James says 534 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: that the Registry was supposed to answer a key question, 535 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 1: what does it take to lose weight long term? And 536 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: the Registry has actually provided some answers, as evidenced by 537 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: thirty scientific papers James and his colleague have written about it. 538 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,320 Speaker 1: That's right, we know what it takes to lose weight 539 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 1: long term. You just have to diet and exercise and 540 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: prioritize it every single day and worked really hard forever. 541 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,879 Speaker 1: So one of the things I always tell people that 542 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,720 Speaker 1: we've learned from the National Wake Control registreet it takes 543 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: a lot of conscious effort for these people to stay successful. 544 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: So it's not the case that they lost weight and 545 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: then they went back to living your lives and didn't 546 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: think about it. You might remember from our last episode 547 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,800 Speaker 1: that this is a diet myth the South Beach Diet 548 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: helped spread in the two thousands. They prioritize their weight 549 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 1: very very highly. Of all the people who diet, and 550 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: there are many, very few of them actually end up 551 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,840 Speaker 1: joining the Red Distry. We'll talk about that more in 552 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:07,240 Speaker 1: a bit. First, though, here's what we know about people 553 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,359 Speaker 1: in the National Weight Control Registry. Most of them eat 554 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: a relatively low fat diet, but some people do the 555 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:19,400 Speaker 1: low carb thing too. Again, the specific diet doesn't seem 556 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: to matter that these folks. Diet seems to matter more 557 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: than what kind of diet. Most of them spend probably 558 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: more time than the average person thinking about their diet 559 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 1: during the dash, thinking about what they eat, keeping track. 560 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: A lot of them keep diet diaries, so they pay 561 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: attention to the food they eat. National Weight Control Registry 562 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 1: members weigh themselves every day. They track what they eat 563 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: and how much physical activity they get. They're also all 564 00:40:53,640 --> 00:41:03,360 Speaker 1: exercising about an hour a day. Jane Fonda and eighties 565 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,880 Speaker 1: exercise icon wanted everyone to feel the burdens, not just 566 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 1: National Weight Control Registry participants. If you're thinking that an 567 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,319 Speaker 1: hour a day is a lot of exercise, you're right. 568 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:21,000 Speaker 1: The US government recommends a few hours of exercise a week, 569 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,560 Speaker 1: and most adults aren't even doing that. I spoke with 570 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,879 Speaker 1: five members of the National Weight Control Registry for this 571 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 1: episode and heard similar things for starters. Nearly all of 572 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 1: them exercise intensely most days, and a lot have adopted 573 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,200 Speaker 1: some pretty extreme habits to keep their weight off over time. 574 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,800 Speaker 1: One guy I spoke with, his name is Marcos Goodman, 575 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: told me that he had lost sixty five pounds eight 576 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,480 Speaker 1: years ago. To keep it off, he eats the same 577 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 1: five or six meals every day so he doesn't have 578 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 1: attract different foods, like for breakfast, oatmeal with flax seed 579 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 1: and sesame seeds, a banana and some non fat milk, 580 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,400 Speaker 1: a stew for lunch made of either sardines or chicken, 581 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 1: and then an evening meal of soybeans. Another woman I 582 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:23,760 Speaker 1: spoke to, Susan Pierced Thompson, lost sixty pounds eighteen years 583 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 1: ago and then since then maintained her weight by cutting 584 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 1: out flour and sugar completely. Susan ended up starting her 585 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,880 Speaker 1: own weight loss program based on those ideas. But the 586 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,279 Speaker 1: thing that struck me the most was the mental and 587 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 1: emotional energy all these people spent on simply maintaining the 588 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:48,240 Speaker 1: weight that they had lost. It just became this big 589 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:52,040 Speaker 1: part of their lives. For some of them, their lives 590 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: even sort of seemed to revolve around this one thing. 591 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,480 Speaker 1: No one ever says, this is going to be really painful. 592 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 1: You better get ready because you are going to suffer. 593 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: No one ever says that, and I did suffer tremendously. 594 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,279 Speaker 1: This is Desha Gill, a fifty six year old stay 595 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,120 Speaker 1: at home mom who lives in Dallas, Texas. She's talking 596 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 1: about the process of losing weight what it was like 597 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,279 Speaker 1: for her. I don't know if you've ever tried to 598 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 1: sleep when you're really really hungry, not just wanting to eat, 599 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:32,880 Speaker 1: but truly feeling like you're starved. That's how I had 600 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,080 Speaker 1: to feel every night. Disia says she has struggled her 601 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 1: weight since she was eleven years old. She told me 602 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: that she started off binging on candy bars at summer camp. 603 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,680 Speaker 1: I was always very interested in health and longevity, and 604 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:54,360 Speaker 1: I wanted to be active and athletic, and but who 605 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: I felt like and what I looked like could not 606 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 1: have been anymore opposite. And I found it humiliating and 607 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:09,520 Speaker 1: embarrassing to look at myself and for people to see 608 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:16,279 Speaker 1: how I would. I was repulsed and so ashamed all 609 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:21,320 Speaker 1: the time, all the time. Desha says she has probably 610 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:25,560 Speaker 1: read hundreds of weight lost books. She has tried weight watchers, 611 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,920 Speaker 1: Jenny Craig over eaters anonymous, she got a lap band, 612 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:34,760 Speaker 1: a surgical procedure that constricts the stomach. She even tried hypnosis, 613 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:40,400 Speaker 1: none of it worked. She also says she experienced health 614 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: issues that seemed related to her weight, like fatty liver disease, 615 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:49,200 Speaker 1: and asthma. Desha knew she needed to make a major change. 616 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,800 Speaker 1: She begins shifting how she eats and ends up losing 617 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:58,520 Speaker 1: a hundred and ten pounds, But she's also raising suns, 618 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:03,319 Speaker 1: which means lots of tempting foods in the house. I 619 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:07,440 Speaker 1: did research and found these food safe that have timers 620 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,840 Speaker 1: on them, and so I bought some food safe so 621 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,400 Speaker 1: that I could put the food that I had trouble 622 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,640 Speaker 1: controlling myself with those food staves, so that my son 623 00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,840 Speaker 1: and this could get them, or if I wanted to 624 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,840 Speaker 1: treat at some point, I could time it so that 625 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,720 Speaker 1: I couldn't get into the food safe until I said 626 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:32,959 Speaker 1: that I could. Disha still uses those food saves. They're 627 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,880 Speaker 1: made of plastic and have a dial at the top. 628 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 1: She sets them to unlock over periods of hours or days, 629 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:47,280 Speaker 1: so she can't eat, say, candy or chocolate whenever she wants. 630 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,080 Speaker 1: She also keeps a fridge near her bedroom in case 631 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,279 Speaker 1: she gets the urge to eat late at night. There 632 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 1: are protein bars in there, as well as apples and 633 00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:01,440 Speaker 1: bottles of water. It keeps me from going downstairs and 634 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,440 Speaker 1: eating four thousand calories because I can't sleep and I'm 635 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:10,360 Speaker 1: upset about something that happened that day. Disha also spends 636 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,960 Speaker 1: about five days a week exercising for ninety minutes. She 637 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:18,120 Speaker 1: has a special playlist of upbeat music that she listens 638 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 1: to when she exercises, and only when she exercises, like 639 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,680 Speaker 1: Let's say she gets a craving to listen to those 640 00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:30,600 Speaker 1: songs at another time. It happens a lot, in fact, 641 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,319 Speaker 1: but Disha doesn't do it. She won't let herself. So 642 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,319 Speaker 1: anything I can do to spice it up and make 643 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:43,879 Speaker 1: it different. And because it is easy to stop feeling motivated, 644 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 1: especially when you're basically at your goal, but I do 645 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 1: find new ways to constantly motivate myself and make it fun. 646 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,520 Speaker 1: It has to be fun. The measures that successful dieters take, 647 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:04,319 Speaker 1: other words, can take over their lives. This is the 648 00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:09,280 Speaker 1: part that's usually missed about the National Weight Control Registry. Sure, 649 00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,920 Speaker 1: these people have all lost large amounts of weight and 650 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,400 Speaker 1: kept it off for many years, but what it has 651 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:21,200 Speaker 1: taken to get them there is totally unreasonable. It just 652 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 1: doesn't seem possible for most people or even worth it. 653 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,040 Speaker 1: And you always find a few people who are able 654 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,800 Speaker 1: to lose a lot of weight. This is Glenn Geeser, 655 00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,800 Speaker 1: a professor at Arizona State University who's criticized the National 656 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,319 Speaker 1: Weight Control Registry. Most people are unwilling to do what 657 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,719 Speaker 1: it takes to get the weight loss that they would like, 658 00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:47,680 Speaker 1: things like lock your favorite snacks in a safe so 659 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,960 Speaker 1: there's a huge gap between what people would like to 660 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:59,160 Speaker 1: weigh and what is feasible. Glenn has actually done some 661 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,239 Speaker 1: math to figure out how many dieters make it to 662 00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:06,880 Speaker 1: the National Weight Control Registry. In other words, lots of 663 00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:11,239 Speaker 1: people diet, how many lose at least thirty pounds and 664 00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,520 Speaker 1: keep it off for a year or more. About a 665 00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,799 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five million Americans try to lose weight 666 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:22,719 Speaker 1: each year, So the ten thousand people that are in 667 00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,640 Speaker 1: the National Weight Control Registry represent about one out of 668 00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:31,439 Speaker 1: every twelve thousand five US adults trying to lose weight. 669 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 1: As in, for every person in it, there are probably 670 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:40,239 Speaker 1: twelve thousand, four hundred and people who didn't lose that 671 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,720 Speaker 1: kind of weight or didn't keep the weight loss off. 672 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:49,279 Speaker 1: That means registry participants aren't even the one percent, they 673 00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,759 Speaker 1: are the point zero zero eight. But the point is 674 00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 1: is that the people who are in the National Weight 675 00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:00,080 Speaker 1: Control Registry are just a very very small drop in 676 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:04,440 Speaker 1: in a big, big bucket of people. James Hill, the 677 00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:08,160 Speaker 1: registry is co founder who we talked to earlier, actually 678 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,200 Speaker 1: sort of agrees with some of the criticism. This is 679 00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,080 Speaker 1: not for the faint of heart. If you're going to succeed, 680 00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,680 Speaker 1: You're going to have to put time and effort into 681 00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,719 Speaker 1: it for the foreseeable future. This idea, you know, it's 682 00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:23,600 Speaker 1: short of the American ideas go out and go on 683 00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,120 Speaker 1: a diet and then everything will be fine. Right, It 684 00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:30,400 Speaker 1: doesn't happen. Most people who lose weight regain it. The 685 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:34,960 Speaker 1: hardest part, James says, is keeping it off. He has 686 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,719 Speaker 1: responded to some of these critiques by starting a whole 687 00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:42,000 Speaker 1: new project. It's called the International Weight Control Registry, and 688 00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,840 Speaker 1: it launched last year. This new registry is tracking a 689 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,719 Speaker 1: much wider group of people, including those who have not 690 00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 1: been able to lose weight. The team is also trying 691 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,320 Speaker 1: to reach a more diverse group of members. The National 692 00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,919 Speaker 1: Week Control Registry's typical member is four. You're fifty years 693 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:08,960 Speaker 1: old and generally a white woman. I kept thinking about 694 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,120 Speaker 1: how much people in the registry who have kept weight 695 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:16,360 Speaker 1: loss off have had to diet and exercise. For some 696 00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:20,080 Speaker 1: of them, it became so all encompassing that they turned 697 00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:25,160 Speaker 1: it into a profession. They became dietitians or personal trainers, 698 00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,239 Speaker 1: and it seemed like it was worth it for them. 699 00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,239 Speaker 1: Many of the things they did probably did help make 700 00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:37,120 Speaker 1: them healthier, and they probably started thinking of themselves differently too, 701 00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:42,000 Speaker 1: as someone really fit with a lot of willpower and determination. 702 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:51,000 Speaker 1: Like Dasha, I basically did something that I have been 703 00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:56,200 Speaker 1: able to do according to science, according to everything that 704 00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:02,000 Speaker 1: I've ever read, And in a way, Desha and the 705 00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,960 Speaker 1: others have new lives now, but that number on the 706 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:10,799 Speaker 1: scale still rules their time, their energy, their interests, and 707 00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:15,040 Speaker 1: their identities. They're afraid of what will happen if they 708 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:20,040 Speaker 1: stop dieting and exercising, because they might gain the weight back. 709 00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,560 Speaker 1: Even though they've gotten what they wanted, they still live 710 00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:29,759 Speaker 1: with a lot of fear. So maybe you're wondering why 711 00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:34,799 Speaker 1: diet anyway, The backlash against dieting is very much at 712 00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,800 Speaker 1: our doorstep. So I really don't like the word diet. 713 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,719 Speaker 1: That word, to me is just so negative and it's just, 714 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:42,879 Speaker 1: you know, the thoughts that come with that word are 715 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:49,280 Speaker 1: like deprivations, starving and just not getting to have anything good. 716 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:53,640 Speaker 1: And in our next episode will look at how diet 717 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:58,640 Speaker 1: has become sort of a four letter word but hasn't 718 00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:02,719 Speaker 1: really gone away a some of the people in the 719 00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:08,520 Speaker 1: biggest rush away from dieting, they actually run weight loss companies. 720 00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,279 Speaker 1: It's different it's something that I can actually live with. 721 00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,879 Speaker 1: It's I wouldn't even call it a diet losing. It 722 00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:18,600 Speaker 1: is written and reported by me Ema Court and edited 723 00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:22,840 Speaker 1: by Kristin B. Brown. Magnus Hendrickson is our senior producer, 724 00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,880 Speaker 1: Stacy Wong our associate producer, and Blake Maples is our 725 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:31,600 Speaker 1: audio engineer. Our theme was composed and performed by Hannis Brown. 726 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,640 Speaker 1: Thanks to Francesco Leavie and Tim Annette. Be sure to 727 00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:39,000 Speaker 1: subscribe to Prognosis if you haven't already, and if you 728 00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:42,520 Speaker 1: like our show, please leave us a review that helps 729 00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:46,319 Speaker 1: others find out about it. Thanks for listening, See you 730 00:52:46,400 --> 00:53:00,279 Speaker 1: next time. Two