1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 2 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: We're going into the Vault for an older episode of 4 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: the show. This one originally aired on August five, and 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: it's part one of our series about the Mirror Uh. 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: This is going to be a series that I think 7 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: will span all of the Vault episodes this month, So 8 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: settle in for part one. In those days, the world 9 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: of mirrors and the world of men were not as 10 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: they are now, separate and unconnected. They were, moreover, quite 11 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: different from one another. Neither the creatures, nor the colors, 12 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: nor the shapes of the two worlds were the same. 13 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: The two kingdoms, the specular and the human, lived in peace, 14 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: and one could pass back and forth through mirrors. One night, however, 15 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: the people of the mirror world invaded this world. Their 16 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: strength was great, but after many bloody battles, the magic 17 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: of the Yellow Emperor prevailed. The Emperor pushed back the invaders, 18 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: imprisoned them within the mirrors, and punish them by making 19 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 1: them repeat, as though in a kind of dream, all 20 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: the actions of their human victors. He stripped them of 21 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: their strength and their own shape, and reduce them to 22 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: mere servile reflections. One day, however, they will throw off 23 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: that magical lethargy. The first to awaken will be the 24 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: fish deep in the mirror. We will perceive a very 25 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: faint line, and the color of this line will be 26 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: like no other color. Later on, other shapes will begin 27 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: to stir. Little by little, they will differ from us. 28 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: Little by little, they will not imitate us. They will 29 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: break through the barrier of glass or metal, and this 30 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: time will not be defeated. Welcome to Stuff to Blow 31 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: Your Mind, the production of by Heart Radio album Hey you, 32 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is 33 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and today we're kicking 34 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: off a series of episodes about the mirror as a 35 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: human invention. This is actually an idea that I guess 36 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: we talked about doing before, but but it was prompted 37 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,679 Speaker 1: by a recent listener suggestion from a listener named Heather. 38 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: So thanks for the idea, Heather. Yeah, this is this 39 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: is gonna be one that will be at least two episodes, 40 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: maybe more, because there's so many different angles you can 41 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: take once you start gazing into the mirror. Uh. You 42 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: have the history of the technology, various cultural traditions involving mirrors, 43 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 1: the psychology of mirrors. So we'll just see, we'll see 44 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: how far we get and if we ever make it 45 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: back out again. You know, that opening reading from Bores 46 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: made me think, how do you know that you're not 47 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 1: the one inside the mirror and that the the other 48 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: side of the mirror is the real world. That's a 49 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: very bores question to ask. Yes, yeah, that that cold 50 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,119 Speaker 1: opening is from animals that live in the mirror, Which 51 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: is a just a couple of page section in the 52 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: Book of Imaginary Beings by Jore Louis Borges, which is 53 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: a fabulous little book. I recommend anyone interested in creatures 54 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: and sort of poetic dreamlike interpretations of creatures to pick 55 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: that up. It's it's a lot of fun with Borges 56 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: writing about established creatures from different mythologies, but also as 57 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: in this case, seemingly you know, just dreaming up something 58 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: of his own, uh, which which I like quite a bit. Um. 59 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: He was certainly an author who was captivated by by 60 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: mirrors and additions in addition to things like dreams and mazes, 61 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: and he has other works that involved mirrors, such as 62 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: covered mirrors, and also an excellent poem simply titled Mirrors. Uh. 63 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: There's one passage from that that I always come back to. UH. 64 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: This goes as follows. I see them as infinite elemental 65 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: executors of an ancient pact to multiply the world, like 66 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: the act of begetting sleepless bringing doom. So is the 67 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: them there the mirrors or the creatures inside the mirrors? 68 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: It is? It's just the mirrors here, right, I think so. 69 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: I think he's just talking about mirrors in this case 70 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: as opposed to beings within the mirror. But I think 71 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: one of the great things about both of these were 72 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: excited here is that that is that that Borges understood 73 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 1: the weirdness of mirrors in a way that I think 74 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: we all connect to at times. But then we're we 75 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 1: live in such a mirrrored age that we we often 76 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: forget it. We often let the weirdness of mirrors pass 77 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: us by. UH. And it's only when we were reminded 78 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: of the strangeness of the whole scenario, UH, that that 79 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,919 Speaker 1: once again we enter this kind of mind set. Also, 80 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: just generally, like borrees to to read motivations into inanimate objects. 81 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: But another way I wanted to get us started today 82 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: is with a very strange fact that many people may 83 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: have considered before, but many may not have. I don't 84 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: think I had really thought about this before we started 85 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,239 Speaker 1: doing this episode. So I want you to start by 86 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: closing your eyes and picturing your own face. You got it, right, 87 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: You know what you look like, So you think about 88 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: the lines, the colors, the proportions. Um, maybe the little 89 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: asymmetries the way your hair parts, or maybe you have 90 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: a mole on one side or one iris that's a 91 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: little bit different than the other. Uh. If you're practiced 92 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: at getting photographed, you probably know you have a good side, right. 93 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: You know, most people who get their picture taken a lot, 94 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: they figure out which side of their face they like better, 95 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: and they kind of orient to position that one for 96 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 1: the camera. But now we want you to consider that 97 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 1: it is almost a guarantee that this face you're imagining 98 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: right now, your own face, is not really what you 99 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: look like to other people. And this is not just 100 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: because of the fuzziness of memory and imagination, but because 101 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: it's almost certain that your mental image of your own 102 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: face is based mostly on your experience of looking in 103 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: a mirror, and a mirror does not show you the 104 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: version of yourself that people see when they look at you, because, 105 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 1: as you know, the image in a mirror is reversed 106 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: your mental image of your own face, unless for some 107 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: reason it's based on something other than looking in a 108 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: mirror is inverted from reality. Isn't that bizarre? It is? Yeah, again, 109 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: this is something that I think most of us have 110 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: encountered since we're very young. You know, it's it's it's 111 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: one of the first sort of tricks of the mirrors 112 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: that you learn, uh, and we grow accustomed to it, 113 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: and then we forget that it's strange. Um. Another way 114 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: of thinking about this goes as follows. So, if you 115 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: hold a dagger in your right hand and you confront 116 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: your reflection in a mirror, like hold it out, brandish 117 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: the dagger against your reflection. Okay, you're holding it in 118 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: your right hand, but your reflection is technically holding the 119 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: dagger in its left hand. So this night against smack 120 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: a bit of like like like an overstatement of the obvious. 121 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: But I think that's kind of shocking, you know, the 122 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: the idea that that you are using opposite hands to 123 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: hold it, and not merely in a reflective sense. But 124 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: if you were to like take that individual out of 125 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: the mirror, if they could actually climb out of the 126 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: mirror and stand next to you, they would be holding 127 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: their dagger in the opposite hand. Another way of looking 128 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: at it is that the mirror world is a world 129 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: of reversed chirality. Chirality is a term that's often used 130 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: to describe, like molecules, the handedness of molecules. So you 131 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: can have a molecule that has the same chemical constituents, 132 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: but one is the left handed orientation and the other 133 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: is the right handed orientation. The versions of images you 134 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: see reflected in a mirror have opposite chirality of the 135 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: versions that exist in the real world. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 136 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: Now I have to admit I had never thought about 137 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: this dagger um explanation until I was reading about the 138 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: great person Active Glass, which was in the possession of 139 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: the Elizabethan Polly math and wizard Dr John D. And 140 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: as Benjamin Woolley points out in his book The Queen's 141 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: Conjure Um, this was This is one of several I 142 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,679 Speaker 1: think curios that Dr D kept in his study. And 143 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: you know, amid his library. He had a famous library 144 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: of books. Um. And there's another mirror that he had 145 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: in his possession that we'll get to in a bit. 146 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: But as far as the Great perspective glass went, it 147 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: was said that anyone who lunged at the mirror with 148 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 1: a dagger or sword found their reflection lunging back at 149 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: them with like hand and weapon. And again, of course, 150 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: this is not the typical way of mirrors, and the 151 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: effect was said to be quite unsettling. You know, if 152 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: you were visiting Dr D, he would he would, he 153 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: might show you this mirror, and then when you were 154 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: you know, when you realize there was something strange about this, 155 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: he would explain the effect to you via mathematics of perspective. 156 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: So I found that interesting as well, especially since Dr 157 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: D was also very interested in things like divination and 158 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: um and uh and and and you know, alchemical matters. Uh. 159 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: This seems to be an artifact that he would use 160 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: to explain just merely like the mathematics of perspective and optics. 161 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: So it sounds like what's being described here is something 162 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: that you can actually find today known as a non 163 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: reversing mirror, sometimes called a true mirror. And this is 164 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: typically done by having two mirrors that are at a 165 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: right angle to each other, and then having the subject 166 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: stands so that they're looking at the at the vertex 167 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: where these two mirrors come together. Uh. And so the 168 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: way that actually works out is that the reflections of 169 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: the mirrors are reflected in the mirrors at the angles. 170 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: So what you actually see is your correct handed version 171 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: of yourself. Yeah. Now, um, one of these other mirrors 172 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: survives to this day, and we'll get to it in 173 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: a bit. But as far as I know, the Great 174 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: Perspective Glass either did not survive or there's no there's 175 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 1: no artifact that is now own as the Great Perspective Glass. 176 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: So I think it's just mostly speculation and exactly what 177 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: this mirror might have looked like. But but I was 178 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: looking around and I found that you had multiple optical 179 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: devices at the time were referred to with the term perspective. 180 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: And we also see this reflected in the work of 181 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: William Shakespeare. Uh, there's a the for instance, the play 182 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 1: Richard the Second. Uh, there's a there's a crucial scene 183 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: that involves a mirror. But there's some there's some wonderful 184 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: lines that refer to it. Quote for sorrow's eye glazed 185 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: with blinding tears, divides one thing entire to many objects, 186 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: like perspectives, which rightly gazed upon show us nothing but confusion. 187 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: I to ride distinguished form. Well, I'm still trying to 188 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: sort that one out. That that is complex imagery. Yeah, yeah, 189 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: I don't think Richard the Second has really been adapted 190 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 1: as much, or perhaps has performed as much as some 191 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: of the other plays. Um. But it looks like there 192 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: was there was a recent performance of it that was 193 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: filmed um in Britain that had what I think Daniel 194 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: Tennant in it, playing the title role. But I was 195 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: looking around online to find some some footage of that 196 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: particular scene and I couldn't. I couldn't find it. So 197 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 1: I have to admit it's not one of the Shakespeare 198 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: plays that I'm super familiar with. I know, the movie 199 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: adaptation of Richard the Third with Ian McKellen as Richard, 200 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 1: and and it's got Jim Broadbent is a particularly bizarre Buckingham. Uh. 201 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: That's a good one. Yeah, I fondly remember that one 202 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: for sure. Now all of this reminds me of another 203 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: reality about mirrors that I think underlines just how strange 204 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: they are to us, and that is we tend to 205 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: not really understand what we're looking at with a mirror. 206 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: I know this is one of your favorite facts. This 207 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: has come up several times. Yeah, I have brought this 208 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: up before. Um, this is really interesting though. So back 209 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 1: in two thousand five, a psychology study from the University 210 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: of Liverpool judge that will tend to not really understand 211 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: how mirror reflections work. Specifically, they don't understand that the 212 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 1: location of the viewer matters and determining what is visible. 213 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: So this study investigated people's perception and knowledge of of 214 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: a planner mirror reflections. One researcher on this study, Dr 215 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: Marco Bertamini, pointed out that the Venus effect is a 216 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: great example of this. So um, the Venus effect. It 217 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: basically works like this. If you consider the seventeenth century 218 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: painting UH the the the Rugby Venus by Diego Velaquez, 219 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: which you can you can look up if you look 220 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: up a picture of if you just do a search 221 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: for r O K E b Y Venus, you'll see this. 222 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 1: It is uh a nude woman reclined on a uh 223 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: sort of a bed and a cupid cherub type being 224 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: is holding a mirror so that she can look in it. 225 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: She's looking away from us, the viewer. She's looking in 226 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: the mirror, and we the viewer, see her face in 227 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: the mirror. And of course this this raises the question 228 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: what is she looking at in the mirror. Well, we, 229 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: as the viewer of this painting, we tend to assume 230 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: she is looking at her own image. This is some 231 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: sort of a you know, a contemplation of vanity or 232 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: what have you. But if we can see her face, 233 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: if you, the viewer, can see her face in the mirror, 234 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: that means she's looking at your face. She's not looking 235 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: at herself, She's looking at you. That's a good point. Yeah, 236 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: I would not have noticed. I initially saw this and 237 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: assumed she was looking at herself. But absolutely we see 238 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 1: her face directly in this mirror, and that means she 239 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: would see our face directly in the mirror. Because I 240 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: think the the optics term for this is that the 241 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: on flat reflective surfaces, the angle of incidence of the 242 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: light waves bouncing off is reproduced across what's called the normal. 243 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 1: So if you imagine a line hitting the mirror perpendicular 244 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: to the mirror surface. The angle of viewing relative to 245 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: that perpendicular line is then reproduced on the other side 246 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: of it. Yeah. So yeah, that means if you can 247 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: see their face, they can see your face. I want 248 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: to read a quick quote from Burdamini here, uh in 249 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: reference to this paper. Uh. He's quoted as saying, quote, 250 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: mirrors make us see virtual objects that exist in a 251 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: virtual world. They are windows onto this world. On the 252 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: one hand, we trust what we see, but on the 253 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: other hand, this is a world that we know has 254 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: no physical existence. This is one of the reasons why 255 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: throughout history people have been fascinated by mirrors. I know 256 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: this is something I've brought up before, but I think 257 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: the fact that also helps explain why we mirrors are 258 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: weird to us is that if you ever encounter a 259 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: mirror in a video game, First of all, there's a 260 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: very good chance that the mirror does not work. You 261 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: know that it's just kind of a weird flat surface, 262 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: and you might just in passing say, huh, I wonder 263 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: why none of the mirrors in Silent Hill work. Is 264 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: Maybe it's just because this is a haunted place and 265 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: mirrors don't work here. Um. But of course the reality 266 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: and I stink is quite complicated. This changes with the 267 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: evolution of of of video game programming. But uh, it's 268 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: my understanding that yet to create a mirror, Uh, it 269 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: requires a great deal of work. And if you encounter 270 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: a working mirror in a video game, it's essentially um 271 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: the programmer showing off to a certain extent, right, And 272 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: that in some of the older cases, at least, to 273 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: create the effect of a reflecting mirror in a video 274 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: game where you're you know, creature or being your avatar 275 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: is reflected, they would have to actually reproduce that being. 276 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: So they would have to do in the context of 277 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: the game what a mirror appears to do in our reality. Right, 278 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: So like across from the bathroom, you'd have a a 279 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: chirality reverse reflection of the bathroom with the same with 280 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: like a mirror image of your thing moving around in there, 281 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: and you're just seeing it through windows. Yeah, as if 282 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: the Yellow Emperor has punished this other being and made 283 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: them stand in that little room and reproduce all of 284 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: your movements. That's great. This may have changed. I don't 285 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: know a lot about how video games work, but you 286 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: hear the phrase when people are bragging about how cool 287 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: the new video games and processors are, and all that 288 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: they talk about ray tracing. I think that actually does 289 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: have to do with simulating the pathways of rays of light. 290 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: So maybe that would change how mirrors work in games. 291 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Yeah, it would make it sounds like 292 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: like it potentially could, Yeah, because we would be talking 293 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: about actually creating a virtual world with working optics um 294 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: which which I think is often one of the Yeah. 295 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: Once you start reading about how optics have worked, how 296 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: lighting a room works in a video game, it gets uh, 297 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: it's it's it's rather complicated, but fascinating and ultimately makes 298 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: you rethink about how light works in our reality and 299 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: how we perceive it to work. Right. Okay, So anytime 300 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: we talk about an invention, we like to talk about 301 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: what came before, what was there before the such a 302 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: thing as an artificial mirror, And in this case, I 303 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: think the evidence is pretty clear naturally reflective surfaces. So 304 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: I was looking around at some papers about the prehistory 305 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: of mirrors, and almost all authorities that I could find 306 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: seem to agree that by far, the most common natural 307 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: reflective surface for our pre technological ancestors would have been 308 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: a very still body of water. Now, of course, not 309 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: all bodies of water are are useful in this regard. 310 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: Rushing rivers and ocean waves are not very reflective. But 311 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: still bodies of water, quiescent bodies of water under the 312 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: right circumstances can form extremely clear reflective surfaces. So these 313 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: in the natural world might have been pools or ponds, 314 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: or water collected in rock or clay containers. In fact, 315 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: I was reading a paper about the the ancient history 316 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: of mirrors by a scholar named J. M. Enoch, published 317 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 1: in the journal Optometry and Vision Science in the year 318 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: two thousand six. It was called history of Mirrors dating 319 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: back eight thousand years and Enoch points out something interesting 320 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: that that I didn't find anywhere else. He says that 321 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: quote from approximately seven twenty two BC onward, Chinese characters 322 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: for mirrors, known as Gion and Jing were best translated 323 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: as a large tub filled with water. M interesting. This 324 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: is a great point. Reminds me of a couple of things. 325 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: First of all, obviously we have to acknowledge the myth 326 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: of Narcissus uh in the Greek tradition, the what the 327 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: mighty hunter who becomes captivated by his own reflection falls 328 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: in love with his own reflection in the water. Right now, 329 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:41,959 Speaker 1: by the time that myth was floating around, there were 330 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: already artificial mirrors, but just the idea of looking in 331 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: a still pond and seeing your reflection, it's clear that 332 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: is a phenomenon that goes back, you know, as far 333 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: as as the history of the earth, and so this 334 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 1: would have been something that was there was experienced by 335 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: not just our human ancestors, but pre human ancestors. This 336 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: also reminds me of the nineteen five Japanese anthology film 337 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: that some of you may have seen, called Kaiden Um. 338 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: It has a several different just very visual, almost psychedelic 339 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 1: um you know, haunted sequences. One of them is in 340 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: a cup of tea, and it concerns a ghostly reflection 341 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 1: in a cup of tea, a reflection that doesn't match 342 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: up with the real world, and I've always found that 343 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: one particularly creepy. Well, think about how common mirrors are 344 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: in horror movies. I think this is not a coincidence, 345 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: And though this does play into it, I think it's 346 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: also not just the fact that you can close a 347 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: medicine cabinet door that has a mirror on it and 348 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: suddenly reveal something that wasn't there behind you before. Though, 349 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: that that's a big one. I think there's very clearly 350 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: a natural anxiety people have about things they might see 351 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: in a mirror that they don't expect to do, you 352 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 1: know what I mean. And like a lot of old 353 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: ghost stories concerned this. But but horror movies today are 354 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: still reproducing this a fact, there's something behind your shoulder 355 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: that you didn't expect to see their Yeah, yeah, I 356 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: think A great short story example of this can be 357 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: found in Stephen King's short story The Reaper's Image, which, 358 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 1: from my mindy is just one of his absolute best 359 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: best works. Uh. It concerns seeing something. It concerns a 360 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: haunted mirror and things seen in a haunted mirror, and 361 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: I have to admit I'm a sucker for a good 362 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 1: haunted mirror movie. Um. The film Oculus comes to mind, 363 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: which I think I've mentioned before, is a bit of 364 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: a bit of a gut punch of a film. But 365 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: but it really does some some fabulous things. It's been 366 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: a long time I remember that one goes a lot 367 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: more nuts than I expected it too. Yeah. Yeah, they 368 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: do some great stuff with like characters losing track of 369 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: time and you really you really grow to hate that mirror. 370 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: We we've spoken about films and what do you do 371 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: with an inhuman adversary and how do how do you 372 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: depict them as having like a Will and U and 373 00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: actually being an evil enemy in a in a film 374 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: elm and and they were able to pull that off 375 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: in Oculus, like you really you really hate that haunted 376 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: near by the end of the film. Yeah. Now, I 377 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: wanted to take a brief moment to uh, to do 378 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 1: a digression on something that I just thought was really interesting. 379 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: Which are some of the most amazing natural reflective surfaces 380 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: on Earth, which are flooded salt flats. For example, the 381 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: biggest salt flat in the world, the Solar de Uni 382 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: in the southwest of Bolivia. This is actually it's it's 383 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: a remarkable landscape. It's been used as a set for 384 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: a number of films. I think there was a battle 385 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: sequence set here in The Last Jedi Um. But if 386 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: you haven't seen pictures of Solar de Uni, that's s 387 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: A L A R space D space, U, Y, you 388 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: and I. It is absolutely magical looking it and it 389 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: calls to mind the you know, the Kenny Rogers song 390 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: in the Big Lebowski I tripped on a cloud and 391 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: fell eight miles high. There's just photo after photo. This 392 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,959 Speaker 1: is clearly a heaven for photographers and especially photographers who 393 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: want to capture really psychedelic, unreal looking imagery. And I 394 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: found a really good one that was highlighted on NASA's 395 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: website that was taken by someone named Jason Wherta or 396 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: I'm not sure it's pronounced Jason's j h E I 397 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: s O N where to And so a lot of 398 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 1: these images show what looks like someone just standing in infinity, 399 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: like someone just standing in the middle of a mirror 400 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: that stretches to eternity in all directions. Yeah, it's like 401 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: sky below, sky above, and then a person standing and 402 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: possibly upon it, or standing in some cases standing upon 403 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: the feet of their own reflection. And it can be 404 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: difficult to tell which side is the reflection in which 405 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: is the reality, right, and a lot of so the 406 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: one highlighted by NASA is in the nighttime, but in 407 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: the daytime, especially if there's a lot of cloud cover, 408 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: you see all the clouds reflected in the in the 409 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 1: surface of the of the salt flat, and it's just unbelievable, 410 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: but it's so remarkable looking, mainly because it is so 411 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: flat and shallow. This the Salt Flat covers more than 412 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 1: ten thousand square kilometers, and yet its altitude varies by 413 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 1: no more than a few feet across the entire plane. 414 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: So when nearby lakes overflow during the rainy season, the 415 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: Salt Flat will fill up with a very shallow sea 416 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 1: of water. I think the depth is never more than 417 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: than a few feet. In some places it appears to 418 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: be only inches deep, and that means that it forms 419 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: this gigantic, incredibly still puddle of water stretching for miles, 420 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: and a very still puddle like that can essentially create 421 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: a gigantic mirror, reflecting the sky all the way to 422 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: the horizon, and in some places you can just walk 423 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: on it like it's so shallow it looks like you 424 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 1: are walking out over the mirror that goes on forever. 425 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: So one thing I was wondering about is why exactly 426 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: does water reflect images like this while so many other 427 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: materials don't. In researching this, it seems like this is 428 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: one of those questions that has a simple answer and 429 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: a very complicated answer. And I think I'm going to 430 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: stick with the simple one, at least for now. So 431 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: the simple version is basically, all objects reflect light. That's 432 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: how we can see them, right. You know, objects around 433 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 1: you don't produce their own light. They're reflecting light from 434 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: the environment, from the sunlight or from light bulbs. And 435 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: what makes mirrors or mirror like pools of water special 436 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: is the way they reflect the light. Whereas most objects 437 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: tend to scatter the light they reflect in all different 438 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: directions at once, objects that form mirror like reflections tend 439 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: to reflect photons back in parallel instead of scattering them 440 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: in different directions. Uh. And so you can explain this 441 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: basically in terms of things like still water or mirrors 442 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: being much smoother and flatter at the molecular level than 443 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: other surfaces. And by virtue of being smoother and flatter 444 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: than other surfaces, the light that reflects off of these 445 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: materials stays organized in its original arrangement rather than being 446 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 1: bounced off in all different directions and turning the signal 447 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: into noise, turning the original image into just a blur. 448 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: And there's actually a term for this in physics, in 449 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: the physics of light. It's specular reflection versus diffuse reflection, 450 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: so specular reflection specular means like a mirror, mirror like 451 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: reflection versus diffuse reflection, which is the way most things 452 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 1: reflect light, just kind of bouncing it all over the place. 453 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: For a very rough analogy, you can kind of imagine 454 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: you you line up a bunch of those tennis ball 455 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: shooter guns. I'm not sure what those are called, but 456 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: you have played tennis with one of those things. Okay, 457 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: well they they've got them in some tennis clubs. They'll 458 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: like shoot tennis balls at you and you can hit 459 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: them back. Uh. So you take a bunch of those 460 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: tennis ball shooter guns, you line them up in some 461 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: kind of arrangement, and then you shoot them all at 462 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,479 Speaker 1: a wall. You can imagine how this would go. If 463 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: the wall is extremely flat, the balls will probably bounds 464 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: back in parallel in something close to their original arrangement 465 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 1: as they were shot at the wall. But if you 466 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: shoot them at a wall that is not very flat, 467 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: that has a bunch of bumps and contours and different 468 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 1: stuff poking out on it, they will just bounce all 469 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 1: over the place. Now this might be kind of confusing 470 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: because you can think of all kinds of objects that 471 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: seem perfectly smooth, and yet you can't see your reflection 472 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: in them, like a white sheet of paper. You know, 473 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: your printer paper is very smooth, and while it reflects 474 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: a lot of light, that's the you know, the white 475 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: color coming off of it, it clearly isn't specular reflection. 476 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,400 Speaker 1: You can't see images reflected in it. So the main 477 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: issue with surfaces like this is that while they might 478 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: be relatively smooth at the macroscopic scale, at the microscopic scale, 479 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 1: these surfaces are not actually smooth. Now, remember when you're 480 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: when you're talking about light, the tennis balls you're shooting 481 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: at the surface are photons, and so it matters is 482 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 1: the molecular level. Uh Rabbi attached to picture for you 483 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,479 Speaker 1: to look at what paper looks like under a scanning 484 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: electron microscope, and it is not smooth at all. Now, 485 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: it looks like some sort of kind of like crazy 486 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: fiber art or or you know, if you'll occasionally find 487 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: homemade paper that that looks like it's barely usable because 488 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 1: it's so rustic and rough, and you can see all 489 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: the different grains and the you know, the the and 490 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: the like the remnants of plants in it. That's kind 491 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: of what this looks like. It looks like a tattered 492 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 1: portion of I don't know, some sort of a bog 493 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: mummy shroud. Oh yeah, yeah, that's very good. It looks 494 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: like a million mummies all unraveled at the same time 495 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: into a pile. And and and now you're using it 496 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: to to print out your resume, yeah, or even a 497 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,239 Speaker 1: plate of noodles of some kind. It has that more 498 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 1: of that appearance than anything like a flash sheet of paper. Yeah. 499 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: It's made out of fibers. And and once you zoom 500 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: into the level that would be relevant to how photons 501 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: are reflected off of it, those fibers are incredibly apparent. 502 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: But surfaces that produce a clear specular reflection tend to 503 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: be very smooth and flat, even at the molecular level, 504 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: so that they can again reflect those rays of light 505 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: in parallel formation instead of scattering them all over the place. 506 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,719 Speaker 1: And uh, And I think it's interesting to observe how 507 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: sometimes even smooth, relatively non reflective surfaces can start to 508 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: display some amount of specular reflection when they become wet. 509 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: So think about the way that something that is normally 510 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: not doesn't have specular reflection at all, you know, a 511 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: rough concrete surface or or black asphalt street, you know. 512 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: But now imagine it's raining, and suddenly these surfaces becomes 513 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: slick with with rain water they can start to turn 514 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: into a kind of hazy mirror in the rain. So 515 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: what we're left with here is that there are natural 516 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: mirrors in the environment, mostly flat, shallow, stable bodies of water. 517 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: And then there are also, you know, somewhat less clear 518 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: but still at least partially mirror like phenomena that occur transiently, say, 519 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: just whenever it rains and certain types of surfaces get wet. 520 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: Even a normally non reflective rock surface can start to 521 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: become a little bit like a mirror once it gets 522 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: slicked with rain. So this experience of seeing reflections would 523 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: go deep, deep, back into prehistory. But I guess the 524 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: question we want to think as well. Okay, so a surface, 525 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: a very still surface of a pool can show your reflection. 526 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: You might see a very hazy reflection in a wet rock. 527 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: But what is the earliest evidence we have of people 528 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: intentionally making mirrors as a deliberate piece of technology. Because 529 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: you with a still pool of water, you can't take 530 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: it with you somewhere or hang it up on your wall. 531 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: What are the earliest artifact mirrors in the archaeological record? 532 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: And so what I found was that probably the oldest 533 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: mirrors made by humans were obsidian mirrors. The the oldest 534 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: examples of these, I believe, are still from Anatolia in 535 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: modern day Turkey, specifically found in graves associated with the 536 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: Neolithic settlement of Chattelhoyuk, which is an extremely fascinating archaeological site. 537 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: I know we've talked about it on the show a 538 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: number of times before. A kind of proto city. Imagine 539 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: a city without streets, with houses all bunched together and 540 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: sharing walls that you would access through openings in the 541 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: roofs of the houses and uh, and you got a 542 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: very very interesting settlement with lots of cool stuff about 543 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: that we can infer about their culture, religious beliefs and 544 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: all that um, but also a very early site for 545 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: the discovery of mirrors. So again I want to reference 546 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: that paper I mentioned earlier by J. M. Enoch. Enoch 547 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: writes that archaeologists have found graves associated with the region 548 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: of Chatte Hooyuk from approximately six thousand BC s that's 549 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: roughly eight thousand years ago. Uh in these graves contained 550 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: obsidian mirrors. These mirrors were apparently made by takeing a 551 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: piece of obsidian, grinding it down to a sort of circular, 552 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: flat or more often slightly convex surface, and polishing it 553 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: until highly smooth and reflective. And there's a picture that's 554 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: reproduced in nux paper, reproduced in color, I think because 555 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: it's so striking showing that in in full sunlight and daylight, 556 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: this mirror from the ancient, ancient world still produces a 557 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: pretty clear picture. Yeah, I mean, there is a certain 558 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: darkness to it. It is quite literally a black mirror, 559 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: but you see color in it, you see the you know, 560 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 1: the details of the face. It is an effective mirror. 561 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: It's uh, you know, it's if we were forced to 562 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: use this today. Obviously there are certain places you would 563 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: be able to use it. You can't imagine your dentist 564 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: using an obsidian mirror to uh, you know, to to 565 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: to look around in your mouth. But if you just 566 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: had to use this in the morning, I mean, it 567 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: could work. This kind of reflection seems like the sort 568 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: of reflection you could theoretically like shave or apply make 569 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: up to that sort of thing. Now, obsidian to refresh 570 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: is a glass like volcanic rock formed by the rapid 571 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: solidification of lava without crystallization. So it's found in places 572 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: that have undergone what's called rhyolitic eruptions, so you can 573 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: find these. You can find this occurring in various places 574 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: around the world where there's quickly cooling lava. Humans have 575 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: been drawn to it since prehistoric times, though obviously depending 576 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: on where those humans are, they're going to have less 577 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: or more access to it, depending on you know, what 578 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: their their local environment is like, and how far they've 579 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: they've traveled, and how how far they're trading. Now we 580 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: know this material as obsidian. Uh. And this apparently, or 581 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: at least this is what Plenty of the Elder points 582 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,719 Speaker 1: out that it was discovered by a Roman explorer by 583 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: the name of obsidious, you know, whilst traveling in Ethiopia. 584 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: Obsidia sounds like a pejorative adjective that I would have 585 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: to look up, you know, like a like an eighteenth 586 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: century document would insult someone by calling them obsidious. Yes, 587 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: here's a quote from Plenty in translation obviously quote. Among 588 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: the various kinds of glass, we may also reckon obsidian 589 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: glass a substance very similar to the stone which Obsidious 590 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: discovered in Ethiopia. This stone is of a very dark 591 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: color and sometimes transparent, but it is dull to the 592 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: site and reflects, when attached as a mirror to walls, 593 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: the shadow of the object rather than the image. What 594 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: does that mean, the shadow rather than the image. Well, 595 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: I think this is you know, this is one of 596 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: those cases where we we have to read read into 597 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: what plenties talking about here and assume that he might 598 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: be dealing with secondhand or third hand information about it. Uh. 599 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: And I guess it has to do with the sort 600 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: of image you see reflected in Obsidian that it may 601 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: it has a dark appearance to it, So I can 602 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: imagine that being described as being Oh well, it doesn't 603 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: actually reflect the image. It reflects the shadow of the image, 604 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: you know, almost like it's this kind of like window 605 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: into a ring raithed world where everything has this darker 606 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: semblance to itself. Oh yeah, that's interesting. And I was 607 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 1: wondering if it was possible that could be referring to 608 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: the idea of the reversed handedness of the image in 609 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: the mirror. But but then again, Plenty would have been 610 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: familiar with mirrors. I mean they had mirrors by the 611 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: Roman period with with other types of mirrors made from 612 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: other types of materials. So he yeah, he would have 613 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: been familiar with how mirrors worked and would have known 614 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 1: that generally they reflect a you know, an image with 615 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 1: reverse handedness. But there are several more things I wanted 616 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: to note about the ancient Anatolian obsidian mirrors that are 617 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: again brought up in that paper by Enoch. So one 618 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: of the things is that he quotes a scholar named 619 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: Dr James Connolly who's done work with with Chattelhoy in 620 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 1: this region. Uh Connolly giving his opinion that quote their 621 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,759 Speaker 1: uses mirrors in the sense that a reflective surface was 622 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: the functional surface cannot be disputed, So Connolly saying, there's 623 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: no confusion about what this artifact is supposed to be. Clearly, 624 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,720 Speaker 1: this is a mirror used for looking in and seeing 625 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: a reflection. Uh. So descriptions of some of these artifacts, 626 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: Enoch rights that one specimen stands upright on a small 627 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: flattened base, and the finest one was set into lime plaster. 628 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: These mirrors were believed to have originated in the graves 629 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: of females based upon the contents of the grave. Okay, 630 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: so these are typically grave goods, more often associated with women. 631 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: They they are sometimes set into a kind of stand 632 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: or have some kind of holder or handle. And then 633 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,760 Speaker 1: also uh Enoch wrights quote. Obsidian objects were among early 634 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: exports from Anatolia, and they were used for spears, arrowheads 635 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: and knives, axes, scrapers, and jewelry. It is reasonable to 636 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: conject sure that mirrors were also exported from there. Connolly 637 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 1: suggests that the first shaping slash grinding of an Anatolian 638 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: mirror surface was quite coarse. The surface was then polished 639 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: with a fine grained material such as silt, and buffed 640 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 1: with materials such as leather. Uh. And then I wanted 641 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: to note another interesting thing I came across that this 642 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: was just a note about the production of these mirrors. 643 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,839 Speaker 1: I mentioned already that the mirrors from the ancient world, Uh, 644 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: sometimes we're slightly convex, So that would mean they're they're 645 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 1: kind of like the mirror that you would use to 646 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,959 Speaker 1: see around the corner when you're making a blind turn 647 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,800 Speaker 1: on the road. Right, Like, they bend outwards so that 648 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,320 Speaker 1: there there are a cone that points towards you in 649 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,399 Speaker 1: the middle, as opposed to concave, which would be more 650 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: like a bowl bending away from you. From your perspective, 651 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: Convex is like a bowl upturned bending towards you. So 652 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: why would they be a little bit convex? Well, I 653 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 1: was reading an article in Archaeology Magazine by James F. 654 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: Vetter called Grinding It Out that concerns these ancient obsidian mirrors, 655 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: and it concerns experimental archaeology attempts to reproduce by hand 656 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: these types of mirrors, given the the techniques and materials 657 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: that would have been available to the ancient people who 658 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: made them. And the interesting thing I wanted to notice 659 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: in a is in a paragraph here that I'll just 660 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: read from better quote. All of the mirrors produced good images, 661 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: and all were slightly convex, as expected from manual grinding, 662 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,800 Speaker 1: in which linear and rotary motions result in greater pressure 663 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,919 Speaker 1: being applied around the perimeter of the surface. The only 664 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,759 Speaker 1: technical reference that I've seen to an obsidian mirror from 665 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:43,360 Speaker 1: Chattelhoyac states that it is slightly convex. With special preparation 666 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,280 Speaker 1: of a core and great care during the grinding process, 667 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: one could probably make a nearly flat mirror with no 668 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,839 Speaker 1: obvious distortions in the image. So he's saying that if 669 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,720 Speaker 1: you are grinding and polishing an obsidian mirror by hand, 670 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: it is just natural that the process creates a mirror 671 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: that is slightly convex because of the way you're like 672 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 1: polishing it with circular motions, you tend to grind away 673 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: the outer edge more than you grind away the middle. 674 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: But anyway, this started getting the gears turning in my 675 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,320 Speaker 1: brain because if you were living in a culture that 676 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: did create artificial mirrors, but just as a sort of 677 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: byproduct of the of the technical production process that creates 678 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: the mirrors, the mirror you have is likely to be 679 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 1: a little bit convex. Does this change something about people's 680 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: self image within these cultures? The same way that our 681 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: self image is distorted by the fact that all mirrors 682 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 1: at least are basically all mirrors, reverses your handedness and 683 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,839 Speaker 1: gives you this inverted picture of your own face. Would 684 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:50,800 Speaker 1: people within say, an ancient Anatolian civilization that had slightly 685 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 1: convex mirrors, think of their own faces as slightly convex 686 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: compared to what they actually were. I don't know, just 687 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: something interesting to think about and also, like you probably 688 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,919 Speaker 1: wouldn't want to overstate this because again, these mirrors would 689 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 1: not be extremely convex, just slightly convex, but still might 690 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: have some kind of effect on on how people viewed themselves. 691 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to see what a convex uh, 692 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: if you don't have a convex mirror and you want 693 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: to see what your image would look like, they're just 694 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: look at your reflection in the back of a spoon, 695 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,280 Speaker 1: all right. It would tend to kind of like magnify 696 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 1: and distort the features in a in a somewhat strange way. 697 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 1: Sometimes it will make your your nose in the middle 698 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,359 Speaker 1: of your face look very big and the outsides look 699 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: kind of like they're receding away. But it can also 700 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: cause strange effects with say the perspectives of different objects 701 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: being reflected at different distances from a convex mirror. So, 702 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 1: for example, I think of you know you talked about 703 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: a poem about mirrors at the beginning. I think of 704 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,720 Speaker 1: the poem by John Ashbury self Portrait in the convex Mirror. 705 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 1: Do you know that one? I don't think I know 706 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 1: this one? Now, Well, he's in this poem he's talking 707 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,840 Speaker 1: about a painting by Parmesanino of himself in a convex mirror, 708 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 1: and uh and so Ashbury writes, as parmesan Nino did 709 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 1: it the right hand bigger than the head, thrust at 710 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,320 Speaker 1: the viewer and swerving easily away, as though to protect 711 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: whatever it advertises. So again, I imagine the effect would 712 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: be small here. But but yeah, I like this idea 713 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 1: that the different physical properties of mirrors could lead to 714 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 1: different self image cultures. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean I guess 715 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,239 Speaker 1: you would have to factor in like when mirrors are 716 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: used and how they're being used. Are they being used 717 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: casually by individuals just to see what they look like, 718 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: or are they more the domain of like of priests 719 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: and uh and religious authorities. Oh yeah, that's something I 720 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 1: guess we haven't even really gotten much into so far. 721 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,399 Speaker 1: Is is the religious use of mirrors, which does seem 722 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,839 Speaker 1: to be well attested in the ancient world, mirrors as 723 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,840 Speaker 1: devices for divination or other forms of religious rituals. And 724 00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:58,479 Speaker 1: if you want to know more about that, you're gonna 725 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: have to come back for part two, because we will 726 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: pick up with more discussion of obsidian mirrors and how 727 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:09,759 Speaker 1: they they factored into practices in Mesoamerica and in the 728 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,360 Speaker 1: pursuit of divination. So come back for part two and 729 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: you'll be under the eye of the god of smoking mirrors. 730 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 1: That's right. And who knows what else we'll get into. Uh, 731 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: you know, eventually we're definitely going to get into metal 732 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 1: mirrors and the sort of mirrors of that you know 733 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 1: and love from the world around you or have come 734 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 1: to despise and and see as umu as as perverse objects, 735 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,279 Speaker 1: so as as Bores did in that one poem. Uh. 736 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,279 Speaker 1: And then eventually I think we'll also get into some 737 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 1: other examples of mirror psychology, like what what happens when 738 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,360 Speaker 1: we are subjected to mirrors? How does it change the 739 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,839 Speaker 1: way we think about ourselves or others? Uh? So there's 740 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:50,759 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff to explore. We'll see, we'll see 741 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:52,360 Speaker 1: if we can fit it all into a into just 742 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: a second episode, but this might be a topic that 743 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,399 Speaker 1: goes for a third episode or maybe even more, who knows, 744 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 1: who knows infinite episodes like and you know, infinity mirrors. 745 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,840 Speaker 1: I'm down. Let's just keep buffing it all right. In 746 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,080 Speaker 1: the meantime, if you want to check out other episodes 747 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 1: of stuff to blow your mind. You can find them 748 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,160 Speaker 1: in the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed wherever 749 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,839 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. We have core episodes on two 750 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:21,280 Speaker 1: season Thursdays, The Artifact on Wednesday's Listener Mail on Monday's 751 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,560 Speaker 1: Weird House cinemon Fridays, that's the episode where we just 752 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 1: talk about some sort of strange and interesting film, and 753 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,319 Speaker 1: then on the weekends we have a rerun Gotta Catch 754 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,280 Speaker 1: the Ball. Huge Thanks as always to our excellent audio 755 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,960 Speaker 1: producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get 756 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,279 Speaker 1: in touch with us with feedback on this episode or 757 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 1: any other, to suggest topic for the future, or just 758 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,600 Speaker 1: to say hello, you can email us at contact at 759 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow 760 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,279 Speaker 1: your Mind, It's production of I Heart Radio. For more 761 00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,319 Speaker 1: podcasts for my heart Radio, this is the i Heart 762 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,000 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen me to 763 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:01,800 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.