WEBVTT - How to Find Hope in a Cynical World 0:00:15.516 --> 0:00:24.356 Pushkin as a happiness professor. 0:00:24.516 --> 0:00:27.516 Many people assume that I'm a beacon of optimism, that 0:00:27.596 --> 0:00:29.876 I always look on the bright side of life, to 0:00:30.076 --> 0:00:33.316 quote the Monty Python song. But some days I feel 0:00:33.396 --> 0:00:36.676 pretty down about things. Some days it feels easier to 0:00:36.756 --> 0:00:38.396 look on the bleak side of life. 0:00:38.676 --> 0:00:43.916 Good childish nicknames, the crazy conspiracy theories, this weird obsession 0:00:43.996 --> 0:00:44.796 with crowd. 0:00:44.476 --> 0:00:47.556 Size, Please stick to policy, don't get personal, they get 0:00:47.516 --> 0:00:48.916 any personal all night long of the. 0:00:49.036 --> 0:00:52.356 Wa limited narrow view of the world made him feel 0:00:52.436 --> 0:01:08.236 threatened by the. 0:01:05.956 --> 0:01:10.396 I mean, politics and all the polarization right now, bleak, climate, 0:01:10.676 --> 0:01:16.916 ridiculously bleak, racism, poverty, war bleak, bleak, super bleak. But 0:01:17.076 --> 0:01:19.996 thinking about all these problems doesn't just make me feel helpless. 0:01:20.436 --> 0:01:23.116 It also gets me super frustrated with the other members 0:01:23.156 --> 0:01:25.876 of my species. Sometimes I just want to be like 0:01:26.156 --> 0:01:29.676 fellow humans. Come on, might the only one who sees 0:01:29.676 --> 0:01:32.596 all these problems? Might the only one who wants everybody 0:01:32.636 --> 0:01:34.916 to stop yelling at each other on Twitter long enough 0:01:34.956 --> 0:01:38.156 to actually start fixing things. Even just saying it out 0:01:38.156 --> 0:01:42.236 loud makes me feel isolated and yucky and just blah. 0:01:42.596 --> 0:01:45.196 I'm guessing that you may have felt something similar. On 0:01:45.236 --> 0:01:48.196 your worst days, like me, maybe you've wondered if there's 0:01:48.236 --> 0:01:51.356 any way to fight all the division and disillusionment and despair. 0:01:51.596 --> 0:01:55.036 This seems to have taken over our public conversation. Well, 0:01:55.116 --> 0:01:57.676 you're in luck, because over the next few shows, we'll 0:01:57.716 --> 0:01:59.996 see that the science gives us lots of reasons to 0:01:59.996 --> 0:02:03.476 be optimistic about stuff that scares us, from politics, to 0:02:03.556 --> 0:02:05.876 human nature to our capacity. 0:02:05.356 --> 0:02:06.396 To change society. 0:02:06.636 --> 0:02:09.876 We'll even learn how to transform our despair into positive action. 0:02:10.196 --> 0:02:12.796 So buckle up, Happiness Lab listener, because we're on a 0:02:12.876 --> 0:02:19.036 journey to find hope. Our minds are constantly telling us 0:02:19.076 --> 0:02:20.836 what to do to be happy. But what if our 0:02:20.916 --> 0:02:23.596 minds are wrong? What if our minds are lying to us, 0:02:23.796 --> 0:02:25.916 leading us away from what will really make us happy. 0:02:26.996 --> 0:02:29.196 The good news is that understanding the science of the 0:02:29.236 --> 0:02:30.196 mind can point us. 0:02:30.076 --> 0:02:31.356 All back in the right direction. 0:02:31.876 --> 0:02:36.396 You're listening to the Happiness Lab with doctor Lauriy Santos. 0:02:41.636 --> 0:02:44.236 I say, this is the Happiness Lab with doctor Laurry Santos. 0:02:44.596 --> 0:02:46.996 But since this is a whole season about finding hope, 0:02:47.116 --> 0:02:50.036 which I sometimes struggle with, I decided to ask someone 0:02:50.116 --> 0:02:51.436 to help us on our journey. 0:02:51.476 --> 0:02:52.636 Hey, Jamil how's it going. 0:02:52.836 --> 0:02:53.276 I'm good. 0:02:53.316 --> 0:02:54.436 How are you feeling better? 0:02:54.516 --> 0:02:56.916 I'm still sounding a little froggy, which hopefully won't come 0:02:56.956 --> 0:03:00.356 off too much in the interview. Stanford psychologist Jamil Zaki 0:03:00.516 --> 0:03:02.156 is the go to guide if you want to learn 0:03:02.196 --> 0:03:04.956 why the world is kinder than the bleak vision we 0:03:05.036 --> 0:03:07.876 often bring to mind. Over the next four episodes, we'll 0:03:07.916 --> 0:03:10.036 be exploring some of the ideas he sets out in 0:03:10.076 --> 0:03:13.876 his new book, Hope Procinics, The Surprising Science of Human Goodness. 0:03:14.156 --> 0:03:17.516 Hope Prosonics is literally life changing. You should buy it 0:03:17.596 --> 0:03:19.836 and read it. But the cliff note summary is that 0:03:19.836 --> 0:03:23.196 we needn't surrender to the cynical view that humans are mean, selfish, 0:03:23.236 --> 0:03:25.836 and hostile, because a bunch of research shows that these 0:03:25.876 --> 0:03:29.036 notions are just plain mistaken. Now, Jimmil has been steeped 0:03:29.036 --> 0:03:31.196 in the science for a very long time, so you 0:03:31.276 --> 0:03:33.756 might assume that he'd be the most hopeful man alive. 0:03:34.236 --> 0:03:37.436 For the last twenty years, I've studied and written and 0:03:37.516 --> 0:03:41.236 spoken about human kindness and empathy, and I've sort of 0:03:41.276 --> 0:03:46.316 become an unofficial ambassador for humanity's better angels. People often 0:03:46.356 --> 0:03:49.916 bring me in to tell them about how great everybody 0:03:50.036 --> 0:03:52.796 is and I love that work and I believe it 0:03:53.356 --> 0:03:56.756 in my mind, but that doesn't mean that doesn't mean 0:03:56.796 --> 0:03:59.116 that it makes its way into the rest of me. 0:03:59.396 --> 0:04:02.556 And it's my job to think about and talk about 0:04:02.596 --> 0:04:06.916 how great everyone is. But oftentimes I feel the exact opposite. 0:04:07.036 --> 0:04:09.996 Any specific examples that have come up lately, like of 0:04:10.196 --> 0:04:13.036 just the opposite of the milk of human kindness as 0:04:13.076 --> 0:04:13.876 you look at that of. 0:04:13.836 --> 0:04:18.996 The world, I feel cynical and hopeless about I'd say 0:04:19.036 --> 0:04:22.196 six times a day thinking about current events. All I 0:04:22.236 --> 0:04:26.436 have to do to feel terrible about myself or humanity 0:04:26.876 --> 0:04:29.596 is just look at any of the screens in my life, 0:04:29.636 --> 0:04:32.676 my laptop, my TV, my phone, even my watch does 0:04:32.716 --> 0:04:34.156 the trick on occasion, and. 0:04:34.116 --> 0:04:35.796 You're not alone. But this is something that I can 0:04:35.836 --> 0:04:37.796 kind of reflect on a lot. As you know, I've 0:04:37.836 --> 0:04:39.996 been kind of sick lately. I've like had a cold 0:04:40.316 --> 0:04:42.476 and somehow like my main form of activity has just 0:04:42.516 --> 0:04:45.076 been like peeking at my phone or like I'll just 0:04:45.076 --> 0:04:47.116 go on Reddit, or I'll just see like what's you 0:04:47.116 --> 0:04:49.756 know on my favorite news channel, and it just makes 0:04:49.756 --> 0:04:52.116 me hate the world and hate other people. 0:04:52.316 --> 0:04:54.476 It just makes me feel really terrible. 0:04:54.836 --> 0:04:56.436 But it feels shocking that you could go through the 0:04:56.476 --> 0:04:58.556 same thing you're supposed to know better. 0:04:58.756 --> 0:05:00.836 I am supposed to know better, but so many of 0:05:00.916 --> 0:05:05.276 us who are psychologists or behavioral scientists, we live with this. 0:05:05.756 --> 0:05:08.796 We study part of the world. We try to understand it. 0:05:09.236 --> 0:05:12.836 But again, just understanding something isn't the same as feeling it. 0:05:13.396 --> 0:05:16.276 And I guess for me, over the last few years, 0:05:16.316 --> 0:05:20.316 I became really curious about this cynicism. I was experiencing 0:05:21.036 --> 0:05:24.436 feeling like the world was getting worse, like people were terrible. 0:05:24.716 --> 0:05:27.716 And I thought, Laurie, about you, and about the themes 0:05:27.756 --> 0:05:30.676 of the Happiness Lab and this idea that sometimes our 0:05:30.716 --> 0:05:33.596 minds played tricks on us, and I thought, well, maybe 0:05:33.636 --> 0:05:36.116 my mind is playing tricks on me as well. I 0:05:36.196 --> 0:05:40.396 decided to figure out whether my cynicism was warranted, or 0:05:40.436 --> 0:05:42.716 whether it might be wrong, whether it might be a 0:05:42.756 --> 0:05:45.116 story that I was telling myself, and what that might 0:05:45.156 --> 0:05:47.276 be doing to me and to the rest of us 0:05:47.356 --> 0:05:50.196 who might be feeling cynical. I guess I learned a 0:05:50.236 --> 0:05:53.036 lot in the process over the last few years that 0:05:53.116 --> 0:05:54.436 led me to write this book. 0:05:54.716 --> 0:05:57.796 Jamil decided to call the book Hope for Cynics. I 0:05:57.836 --> 0:06:00.516 do sometimes feel scared about society and worry that there 0:06:00.516 --> 0:06:02.876 are people out there who don't exactly have my best 0:06:02.876 --> 0:06:05.396 interest at heart. But does that make me a cynic? 0:06:05.636 --> 0:06:08.276 It feels like a strong word. In his book, Jamil 0:06:08.396 --> 0:06:12.116 argues that is a disease of social health, a disease. 0:06:12.716 --> 0:06:15.076 Wasn't I just basing my ideas on realism? 0:06:15.236 --> 0:06:20.556 So cynicism is the theory that in general, humanity is greedy, selfish, 0:06:20.596 --> 0:06:25.156 and dishonest, And like any other theory, this guides what 0:06:25.196 --> 0:06:29.036 we do and what we don't do. So Cinics, for instance, 0:06:29.076 --> 0:06:32.876 if they see somebody act kindly, they'll suspect that maybe 0:06:32.876 --> 0:06:36.476 they're not genuine, maybe they're doing that for some ulterior motive. 0:06:36.756 --> 0:06:40.036 They also act differently. So this is especially true when 0:06:40.076 --> 0:06:43.356 it comes to trust. Trust is our willingness to be 0:06:43.476 --> 0:06:46.916 vulnerable to somebody else on the expectation that they'll do 0:06:47.036 --> 0:06:50.196 right by us. You are putting your well being in 0:06:50.316 --> 0:06:53.796 their hands. Loaning somebody money or let somebody babies ait 0:06:53.836 --> 0:06:57.156 your kids. It's a gamble, a social gamble, and cinics 0:06:57.156 --> 0:07:00.676 think it's for suckers, so they're much less likely to 0:07:00.756 --> 0:07:05.636 trust strangers, but even their own friends, families, and romantic partners. 0:07:06.076 --> 0:07:09.396 So Cynicism is a theory, but it doesn't stay in 0:07:09.436 --> 0:07:12.596 our minds. It leaks into the way that we live 0:07:12.956 --> 0:07:14.396 and the way that we treat other people. 0:07:14.636 --> 0:07:16.836 I know, when I first started thinking about cynicism, I 0:07:16.876 --> 0:07:20.236 often thought it was really synonymous with skepticism. But you've 0:07:20.316 --> 0:07:22.516 argue that these are actually really different. So what's the 0:07:22.516 --> 0:07:24.436 difference between cynicism and skepticism. 0:07:24.796 --> 0:07:28.676 Yeah, this is really important because I think your sense 0:07:28.676 --> 0:07:30.836 that these two are the same is really common. A 0:07:30.836 --> 0:07:34.156 lot of people, I think, view these terms as interchangeable, 0:07:34.196 --> 0:07:37.236 but they are not at all. As I've said, cynicism 0:07:37.356 --> 0:07:40.836 is a theory that people aren't that great. Skepticism isn't 0:07:40.836 --> 0:07:44.196 a theory about the world or about people. It's a mindset, 0:07:44.556 --> 0:07:48.036 an openness to new ideas, and a kind of restlessness, 0:07:48.116 --> 0:07:52.196 an unwillingness to just sit with our assumptions. I often 0:07:52.236 --> 0:07:54.956 think that cynics are a little bit like lawyers in 0:07:54.996 --> 0:07:58.756 the Prosecution against Humanity, you know, the sort of they're 0:07:58.916 --> 0:08:03.556 really keen on whatever evidence supports their theory, whatever clues 0:08:03.596 --> 0:08:06.716 they can find that people are actually terrible, and they're 0:08:06.716 --> 0:08:10.676 really dismissive of any evidence to the contrary that people 0:08:10.756 --> 0:08:15.876 might be actually pretty great in some circumstances. Skeptics think 0:08:16.036 --> 0:08:21.356 less like lawyers and more like scientists. They test their assumptions, 0:08:21.396 --> 0:08:24.996 they look for data, and because of that, skepticism is 0:08:25.036 --> 0:08:28.756 a much more agile way of viewing the world and 0:08:28.836 --> 0:08:31.996 a much better way to learn about people and situations. 0:08:32.036 --> 0:08:33.996 And so in some ways they're almost more like opposites 0:08:33.996 --> 0:08:36.076 the way you describe it, right, the skeptics are really 0:08:36.196 --> 0:08:38.516 kind of questioning their assumptions, whereas the cynics are really 0:08:38.556 --> 0:08:40.596 set in their theories that, like, know, people are terrible. 0:08:40.876 --> 0:08:42.396 Actually, I think that's right. 0:08:42.476 --> 0:08:44.916 And in fact, if cynics have a lot in common 0:08:44.916 --> 0:08:48.396 with anybody, it's with the naive rubes that they love 0:08:48.436 --> 0:08:51.556 to make fun of. You know, Cynics think that if 0:08:51.556 --> 0:08:55.596 you are not like them, you must just naively believe 0:08:55.836 --> 0:08:58.836 that everybody's great, even if they betray you. And that's true. 0:08:58.876 --> 0:09:02.476 Some people do have rose colored glasses on. Some people 0:09:02.556 --> 0:09:05.316 do see only the best in others, even to their 0:09:05.356 --> 0:09:08.316 own detriment. Those people, I would say, are also thinking 0:09:08.396 --> 0:09:11.836 like lawyers. Lawyers in the defense for humanity's trials. So 0:09:12.076 --> 0:09:16.396 I think that cynics and naive trusters are really both 0:09:16.676 --> 0:09:20.036 thinking and looking at only one side of the evidence. 0:09:20.436 --> 0:09:23.196 And again, skeptics are really different than both of them 0:09:23.516 --> 0:09:27.316 because they don't trust their assumptions. They look for evidence. 0:09:27.516 --> 0:09:29.156 It feels like these days that a lot of us 0:09:29.156 --> 0:09:31.436 have joined the side of the prosecution. Like it seems 0:09:31.436 --> 0:09:33.996 like a lot of us are feeling pretty cynical about humanity. 0:09:34.156 --> 0:09:36.116 Are are there actually data about that? Do we know 0:09:36.156 --> 0:09:37.436 if cynicism is getting worse? 0:09:37.556 --> 0:09:42.036 There are, and cynicism has been skyrocketing over time. The 0:09:42.076 --> 0:09:44.356 best proxy that we have for it is how much 0:09:44.516 --> 0:09:47.676 people agree with the statement most people can be trusted. 0:09:47.876 --> 0:09:50.956 This is a question that scientists have been asking Americans 0:09:50.996 --> 0:09:53.876 and people around the world for many, many years, and 0:09:54.156 --> 0:09:56.476 the best data we have are from the US, and 0:09:56.516 --> 0:10:00.756 those data are pretty bleak. So in nineteen seventy two, 0:10:00.836 --> 0:10:04.156 about fifty percent of Americans believed that most people can 0:10:04.196 --> 0:10:08.076 be trusted. By twenty eighteen, that had fallen to about 0:10:08.116 --> 0:10:10.876 a third of a Mayora Mrians. The size of that 0:10:10.996 --> 0:10:13.876 drop is comparable to the amount of money that the 0:10:13.916 --> 0:10:17.036 stock market lost in the financial collapse of two thousand 0:10:17.036 --> 0:10:19.916 and eight. So we are experiencing, in a real way 0:10:20.236 --> 0:10:24.196 a trust deficit and a cynicism boom. In our country 0:10:24.436 --> 0:10:26.116 and actually around the world as well. 0:10:26.236 --> 0:10:28.556 I mean, that's terrifying that as a huge drop. I 0:10:28.596 --> 0:10:31.596 mean the other questions like what's that deficit doing to us? 0:10:31.636 --> 0:10:33.556 Like how is it affecting us as individuals? 0:10:33.956 --> 0:10:37.516 So I went through decades of data on this and 0:10:37.836 --> 0:10:41.916 discovered that in essence, cynicism hurts us in every way 0:10:42.196 --> 0:10:46.996 psychologists and social scientists and even physicians can measure. Cynics 0:10:47.036 --> 0:10:49.956 tend to live much less healthy lives. They are more 0:10:49.996 --> 0:10:55.436 prone to depression, loneliness, and unhappiness. They're also much more 0:10:55.516 --> 0:10:59.356 likely to get physically sick, with everything from diabetes to 0:10:59.436 --> 0:11:04.156 cellular inflammation to heart disease. They even die younger than 0:11:04.396 --> 0:11:09.956 non cinics. Their relationships are also damaged by their cynicism. 0:11:10.036 --> 0:11:12.796 So if you can't trust people, it's harder to connect 0:11:12.796 --> 0:11:15.756 deeply with them, and you end up more isolated. It's 0:11:15.796 --> 0:11:19.876 really tragic. If cynicism were appeal, it'd be a poison. 0:11:20.076 --> 0:11:24.676 And Thomas Hobbes, one of the most famous cynical philosophers 0:11:24.716 --> 0:11:28.156 in history, wrote that we needed laws to rain us 0:11:28.196 --> 0:11:32.316 in because left to our own devices, human nature is nasty, brutish, 0:11:32.356 --> 0:11:35.676 and short. I think that's the best cynical encapsulation. That's 0:11:35.716 --> 0:11:40.076 like cynicism in one sentence, But ironically that phrase, that 0:11:40.156 --> 0:11:43.836 sentence really captures the lives of cynics themselves better than 0:11:43.876 --> 0:11:44.516 anybody else. 0:11:44.596 --> 0:11:45.156 That's horrifying. 0:11:45.196 --> 0:11:47.236 I mean, it sounds like it's terrible for individuals, but 0:11:47.276 --> 0:11:49.636 my guess is it's also probably bad for society if 0:11:49.676 --> 0:11:51.876 we're all going around thinking that everybody is, you know, 0:11:51.996 --> 0:11:52.876 nasty and brutish. 0:11:52.916 --> 0:11:54.076 Are their data there too. 0:11:54.116 --> 0:11:56.876 Yeah, there's tons of data showing that at the level 0:11:56.876 --> 0:12:03.396 of communities, whether those communities are families, companies, counties, or countries, 0:12:03.716 --> 0:12:06.836 at all of these levels, a lack of trust a 0:12:06.956 --> 0:12:10.516 general sense of disconnection and suspicion and harms the ability 0:12:10.516 --> 0:12:15.116 of that unit large, small, enormous, whatever to thrive. So 0:12:15.316 --> 0:12:18.636 I'll give you the example at the national level. So 0:12:19.036 --> 0:12:23.676 countries that are higher in trust tend to grow economically, 0:12:24.036 --> 0:12:27.316 Their people tend to be more civically engaged, voting more 0:12:27.356 --> 0:12:30.876 for instance, they tend to donate more to charity and 0:12:30.916 --> 0:12:34.276 help strangers more, and they tend to be less politically 0:12:34.316 --> 0:12:38.356 polarized as well. If that's what trusting nations do, you 0:12:38.396 --> 0:12:43.156 see where we're going what cynical nations do is exactly 0:12:43.236 --> 0:12:48.236 the opposite. They shrink or stagnate economically, people bow out 0:12:48.556 --> 0:12:52.556 or leave civic engagement and civic duties, and they're less 0:12:52.676 --> 0:12:55.716 likely to engage with one another in pro social ways 0:12:55.716 --> 0:12:58.556 as well. If you think of trust as a kind 0:12:58.556 --> 0:13:04.636 of glue that bonds communities together, cynicism erodes that glue 0:13:04.676 --> 0:13:07.516 and leaves us all feeling more alone. 0:13:08.196 --> 0:13:11.796 And it also seems like that alienation must become a 0:13:11.876 --> 0:13:13.636 vicious cycle, right. You know, if you live in a 0:13:13.676 --> 0:13:17.276 cynical society, then you're getting more data that everybody's cynical. 0:13:17.316 --> 0:13:19.916 It becomes easier to believe that everybody's brutish and hates you, 0:13:19.956 --> 0:13:22.156 and that you shouldn't trust them. So these things must 0:13:22.196 --> 0:13:24.036 get worse for communities over time too. 0:13:24.356 --> 0:13:25.516 I totally agree. 0:13:25.556 --> 0:13:29.516 And you see this self fulfilling prophecy all over the place. 0:13:29.996 --> 0:13:32.556 It's not just at the level of large communities, but 0:13:32.636 --> 0:13:37.676 even you see this in individuals' lives. So, for instance, cynics, 0:13:37.916 --> 0:13:41.316 because they don't trust people, they'll treat them in all 0:13:41.316 --> 0:13:44.956 sorts of ways that show that mistrust. For instance, if 0:13:44.996 --> 0:13:47.956 they loan somebody money, they'll call them every day and 0:13:48.116 --> 0:13:51.996 follow up with them or if they interact with friends, 0:13:52.036 --> 0:13:55.316 they'll worry that their friends will disrespect them, so they'll 0:13:55.316 --> 0:14:00.276 disrespect their friends preemptively. And these actions that cynics take 0:14:00.756 --> 0:14:04.156 end up basically pissing other people off and making other 0:14:04.196 --> 0:14:09.716 people feel angry and disrespected, and because of that actually 0:14:09.716 --> 0:14:12.636 bring out the worst in other people. They say, I 0:14:12.636 --> 0:14:14.836 bet these other folks will be selfish. I'll treat them 0:14:14.836 --> 0:14:18.636 like their selfish. Then other people act selfishly and cynics 0:14:18.676 --> 0:14:20.356 decide they were right all along. 0:14:20.716 --> 0:14:24.156 I'm guessing you agree that this sounds awful. A lot 0:14:24.156 --> 0:14:26.196 of us just assume we're approaching the world with a 0:14:26.196 --> 0:14:29.396 healthy amount of suspicion, making sure people don't take advantage 0:14:29.396 --> 0:14:31.836 of us. I never considered that I could be poisoning 0:14:31.876 --> 0:14:35.196 myself or those around me. Why are we attracted to 0:14:35.236 --> 0:14:38.396 cynicism and why are we so very blind to its dangers. 0:14:38.876 --> 0:14:42.036 We'll explore these questions when the Happiness Lab returns in 0:14:42.076 --> 0:14:52.636 a moment. Doctor jimil Zaki has likened cynicism to a 0:14:52.676 --> 0:14:56.916 harmful disease. And what's worse, cynicism is spreading like a pandemic. 0:14:57.916 --> 0:15:02.036 We've got this experience that is growing and it's creating 0:15:02.076 --> 0:15:06.196 like this fractal of pain and dysfunction across our lives. 0:15:06.436 --> 0:15:07.716 And as I. 0:15:07.436 --> 0:15:09.996 Researched this subject, I found that they there are really 0:15:10.276 --> 0:15:14.516 three myths about cynicism that I think promoted and propagated 0:15:14.996 --> 0:15:17.476 things that we believe that make us think we have 0:15:17.556 --> 0:15:19.916 to be cynical if we want to succeed in life 0:15:20.436 --> 0:15:23.476 that turn out in many cases to be exactly the 0:15:23.516 --> 0:15:24.516 opposite of the truth. 0:15:24.596 --> 0:15:26.316 You're totally speaking my language at this, you know. 0:15:26.316 --> 0:15:28.116 On the Happiness Lab, we love any case where our 0:15:28.116 --> 0:15:30.196 minds are lying to us, and it seems like that's what's. 0:15:29.996 --> 0:15:31.116 Going on too. 0:15:31.356 --> 0:15:32.276 Yeah, exactly. Yes. 0:15:32.356 --> 0:15:36.636 So the first of these myths is that cynicism is smart. 0:15:36.996 --> 0:15:39.716 So a lot of people I've talked with since working 0:15:39.716 --> 0:15:42.236 on this project will tell me that they are cynics, 0:15:42.396 --> 0:15:45.396 and they'll tell me this with a sort of bitter pride. 0:15:45.596 --> 0:15:48.076 They say, well, yeah, I'm cynical and it might not 0:15:48.156 --> 0:15:50.956 be fun, but hey, that's the price of being right, 0:15:51.116 --> 0:15:53.476 you know. I don't get to just believe whatever I 0:15:53.556 --> 0:15:56.596 feel like. I have to be a realist. And there's 0:15:56.636 --> 0:15:59.916 this sense that in essence, by having this dim view 0:15:59.916 --> 0:16:03.476 of other people, cynics are expressing a sort of hard 0:16:03.636 --> 0:16:05.196 fought wisdom. 0:16:04.956 --> 0:16:06.396 And it sounds like you're going to argue that this 0:16:06.556 --> 0:16:08.356 hard fought wisdom is wrong. 0:16:09.876 --> 0:16:13.196 Yes, But before that, I think it's worth saying that 0:16:13.396 --> 0:16:16.716 cynics are not the only ones who think cynics are smart. 0:16:16.876 --> 0:16:19.916 There's a bunch of research that finds that if you 0:16:19.996 --> 0:16:22.596 ask people who do you think would do better on 0:16:22.876 --> 0:16:26.076 a bunch of different tasks a cynic or a non cnic, 0:16:26.436 --> 0:16:30.476 about seventy percent of people believe that cynics are smarter 0:16:30.716 --> 0:16:32.996 than non cynics in general, that they would do better 0:16:33.036 --> 0:16:37.556 at analytic tasks, for instance, and about eighty five percent 0:16:37.596 --> 0:16:41.276 of people think that cynics would be socially smart, for instance, 0:16:41.716 --> 0:16:46.076 better at spotting liars. So most people put a lot 0:16:46.116 --> 0:16:47.796 of faith in people who don't have a lot of 0:16:47.796 --> 0:16:50.836 faith in people. Say that three times fast, but it's true, 0:16:51.436 --> 0:16:55.796 and it turns out that most people are wrong. Cnics 0:16:55.836 --> 0:17:00.116 in fact, do less well on cognitive tests than noncnics, 0:17:00.356 --> 0:17:03.596 and they're also worse at spotting liars. It turns out 0:17:03.596 --> 0:17:06.316 that if you think everybody is on the take, you 0:17:06.396 --> 0:17:10.036 don't engage in skepticism, you don't take the energy and 0:17:10.116 --> 0:17:13.116 time to actually learn about people. So you end up 0:17:13.116 --> 0:17:17.716 with blunt and often incorrect, black and white views of humanity. 0:17:17.796 --> 0:17:21.356 So cynicism ends up being way less smart and wise 0:17:21.516 --> 0:17:22.316 than we think it is. 0:17:22.596 --> 0:17:25.396 And so that's kind of the first myth about cynicism. 0:17:25.396 --> 0:17:27.396 It's not nearly as smart as we think. What's the 0:17:27.396 --> 0:17:27.996 second one. 0:17:28.076 --> 0:17:31.316 The second is that cynicism is a way of staying safe. 0:17:31.556 --> 0:17:34.516 Is a quote from the comedian George Carlin that I love, 0:17:34.716 --> 0:17:37.636 where he said, scratch a cynic, and you'll find a 0:17:37.716 --> 0:17:41.636 disappointed idealist. I think a lot of cynics, whether they 0:17:42.236 --> 0:17:44.516 seem like they have a lot of bluster in their 0:17:44.596 --> 0:17:49.036 sneering attitude or not, actually are in recovery from some 0:17:49.156 --> 0:17:50.756 type of hurt or betrayal. 0:17:51.196 --> 0:17:52.156 I understand that. 0:17:52.356 --> 0:17:54.636 I feel like, if people are cynical and they're listening 0:17:54.636 --> 0:17:55.956 to this, I don't want them to feel like I'm 0:17:56.356 --> 0:17:59.236 calling them out. I think a lot of us have 0:17:59.356 --> 0:18:02.276 been disappointed and hurt in our lives, and it's actually 0:18:02.276 --> 0:18:05.276 pretty natural to say, well, gosh, I was really hurt 0:18:05.396 --> 0:18:08.356 before because I trusted somebody. I don't want to get 0:18:08.436 --> 0:18:12.036 hurt again. The only way that I can avoid that 0:18:12.156 --> 0:18:16.556 further pain is to close myself off to stop trusting others. 0:18:16.916 --> 0:18:18.756 But you've argued that this isn't the right approach. You've 0:18:18.796 --> 0:18:21.236 argued that this winds up causing a term that I love, 0:18:21.276 --> 0:18:22.596 which is pre disappointment. 0:18:22.676 --> 0:18:23.756 What's pre disappointment? 0:18:23.916 --> 0:18:27.636 So if you think of disappointment as somebody hurt me, 0:18:27.996 --> 0:18:31.556 and so my expectations of that person are now lowered, 0:18:32.036 --> 0:18:36.036 pre disappointment is somebody hurt me, so my expectations of 0:18:36.076 --> 0:18:39.316 the entire world are now lowered. It's like a sort 0:18:39.356 --> 0:18:42.756 of psychological armor, or at least people believe it's a 0:18:42.756 --> 0:18:47.516 psychological armor. They say, if I have no faith in anybody, 0:18:47.556 --> 0:18:50.236 then they can't possibly hurt me. It's like a thick 0:18:50.356 --> 0:18:53.716 skin of sorts. But I actually think that predisappointment is 0:18:54.036 --> 0:18:57.276 less like armor that protects us and more kind of 0:18:57.316 --> 0:19:01.516 like armor that suffocates us. Because when you don't have 0:19:01.596 --> 0:19:04.916 any openness to other people, yeah, you probably won't get 0:19:04.996 --> 0:19:08.396 hurt again, but you also won't be able to connect 0:19:08.396 --> 0:19:14.436 with people. You'll miss out on so many opportunities for friendship, love, collaboration, 0:19:14.676 --> 0:19:18.556 you name it. That all depend on our willingness to 0:19:18.636 --> 0:19:22.676 be open. So I feel like cynicism and pre disappointment 0:19:22.716 --> 0:19:25.476 are safe kind of in the way that house arrest 0:19:25.596 --> 0:19:28.716 is safe. You probably won't get hurt, you won't get 0:19:28.756 --> 0:19:31.436 run over by a truck, but you also won't ever 0:19:31.556 --> 0:19:34.156 experience so many things that you might want to if 0:19:34.196 --> 0:19:36.876 you just stay at home trying to be safe in 0:19:36.956 --> 0:19:38.396 this really shallow way. 0:19:38.476 --> 0:19:40.556 And this act of being safe seems like it's contributing 0:19:40.556 --> 0:19:43.076 to this self fulfilling prophecy. If I'm cynical and I'm 0:19:43.116 --> 0:19:45.796 kind of disappointed in everybody, and I assume that that's safe, 0:19:45.956 --> 0:19:48.076 maybe it's safe, but it winds up never giving me 0:19:48.116 --> 0:19:50.596 any opportunities to learn that that, hey, this is a myth. 0:19:50.596 --> 0:19:52.556 People won't disappoint you as much as you think. You're 0:19:52.596 --> 0:19:55.156 kind of prevented from any learning opportunities that might change 0:19:55.196 --> 0:19:55.556 your mind. 0:19:55.716 --> 0:19:56.196 That's right. 0:19:56.476 --> 0:20:00.196 I mean, in nerdy terms. In the world of learning science, 0:20:00.316 --> 0:20:04.876 this is called a wicked learning environment, where we expose 0:20:04.876 --> 0:20:09.076 ourselves to evidence that supports one perspective, but don't ever 0:20:09.196 --> 0:20:11.476 or get chances to see the evidence that would go 0:20:11.756 --> 0:20:14.516 the other way. And I think that our minds also 0:20:14.556 --> 0:20:17.876 are built to focus a lot on negative things that 0:20:17.916 --> 0:20:20.476 have happened to us. There's all this work that I 0:20:20.476 --> 0:20:22.956 think you all have talked about on what's known as 0:20:23.036 --> 0:20:26.996 negativity bias. Bad events, bad people take up a lot 0:20:26.996 --> 0:20:30.236 of our attention and we remember them more clearly as well. 0:20:30.436 --> 0:20:31.996 I don't know if you feel this, Lorie. I feel 0:20:32.036 --> 0:20:34.636 like any time that somebody's betrayed me or hurt me, 0:20:34.956 --> 0:20:37.636 I can come up with a list of those events 0:20:37.676 --> 0:20:39.476 from my teenage years at the. 0:20:39.476 --> 0:20:40.156 Drop of a hat. 0:20:40.196 --> 0:20:41.796 But if you ask me to tell you all the 0:20:41.876 --> 0:20:44.876 nice things that people did for me when I was ten, twelve, fourteen, 0:20:44.996 --> 0:20:45.756 I draw completely. 0:20:45.836 --> 0:20:46.076 Yeah. 0:20:46.316 --> 0:20:49.196 Mine is always course evaluations, right, like you know you 0:20:49.236 --> 0:20:51.156 did class with you know, over thousand students. A lot 0:20:51.156 --> 0:20:53.276 of people say nice things, but the class, right, But 0:20:53.356 --> 0:20:56.796 those two kids who said really terrible things. I could 0:20:56.876 --> 0:20:58.396 quote it right now. I choose not to, but I 0:20:58.396 --> 0:21:00.396 could quote it right now. Yah Know, the negative stuff 0:21:00.436 --> 0:21:02.276 sticks in your brain in this terrible way. 0:21:02.596 --> 0:21:03.476 I have the same thing. 0:21:03.596 --> 0:21:06.036 It's always like one person out of five hundred his 0:21:06.196 --> 0:21:10.916 that shirt was too much. But it's natural, it's really understandable, 0:21:11.276 --> 0:21:12.356 and it's tragic. 0:21:12.516 --> 0:21:12.676 Right. 0:21:12.756 --> 0:21:16.676