Speaker 1: Hey, ba fam, it's Mandy. Here is my favorite time
Speaker 1: of week. It's Friday, which means it is time for
Speaker 1: the ba Q and A. I get to shake up
Speaker 1: the mail bag and see what kinds of career and
Speaker 1: finance questions y'all have. You never disappoint me. If y'all
Speaker 1: have questions anything relating to your career, relationships, finances, the
Speaker 1: intersection of all of those things, send us your questions.
Speaker 1: You can hit us up at brennanbishenpodcast dot com, click
Speaker 1: ask us anything, or go to IG and you can
Speaker 1: slide right on into our DMS. We actually see your messages.
Speaker 1: We sometimes respond, especially late night when I'm just scrolling
Speaker 1: on my phone and checking out with my ba fam.
Speaker 1: I actually do respond to lots and lots of messages,
Speaker 1: So hit us up. We love y'all's questions today. For
Speaker 1: this special edition of BAQ and A, we are all
Speaker 1: focused on career stuff, and we've got some really juicy,
Speaker 1: interesting questions. How to deal with the toxic boss? Wouldn't
Speaker 1: we all love some advice on that. I've got some
Speaker 1: strategies for a listener who has a question about a
Speaker 1: very toxic boss. So let's just dive right on in
Speaker 1: with our first question. Now, obviously, when you're talking about
Speaker 1: your advice on a podcast, you want to remain anonymous,
Speaker 1: so absolutely we will keep you anonymous, but let me
Speaker 1: just call you. We'll call you Rebecca. Okay, Rebecca says,
Speaker 1: first and foremost, send my love to Tiffany as she's healing.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for that, and I will send
Speaker 1: some extra love to Tiffany myself. Rebecca says, I love
Speaker 1: you both, and I get so much great advice and
Speaker 1: insights into navigating the professional world as a woman of color.
Speaker 1: My question today is about my boss. I'm a recruiter
Speaker 1: and the company that I work for is wonderful. I
Speaker 1: love the culture they're cultivating. I don't want to make
Speaker 1: a move, but my boss is extremely tough to work
Speaker 1: with right now. She's overstressed and obsessed with hitting all
Speaker 1: our KPIs. Regardless of whether we hit our financial goal
Speaker 1: that we commit to every month. To boil it down,
Speaker 1: she finds a way to give us backhanded compliments on
Speaker 1: our performance as an office and it's honestly moralizing. I've
Speaker 1: heard this from many co workers as well. We've been
Speaker 1: venting to each other and it's becoming toxic to the culture.
Speaker 1: I want to say something to her, but she is
Speaker 1: a domineering and stubborn force. I would love if you
Speaker 1: can give me some tips on how to approach her.
Speaker 1: Ooh yeah, toxic bosses? Why do they have to ruin everything?
Speaker 1: And you know what's great about this question? I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously it sucks, and I feel bad for you, but
Speaker 1: I love that you can have at least you're identifying
Speaker 1: and recognizing that your company culture is largely good. So
Speaker 1: what sucks is that you've got a boss who's like
Speaker 1: screwing it up because largely the culture itself is very
Speaker 1: different than what your interactions with this boss have been.
Speaker 1: So how can we tattle on her? That's what I
Speaker 1: want to know. I don't actually think it's your job
Speaker 1: to fix her or make her a better manager. My
Speaker 1: question is like, how can we tattle on her in
Speaker 1: a strategic way to get her out of your way
Speaker 1: so that you can actually enjoy this great culture that
Speaker 1: this company is committed to building. And I think toxic
Speaker 1: managers like her deserve to be called out and dealt
Speaker 1: with because they're real, like an employees experience, and if
Speaker 1: companies want to retain employees, and not have us all
Speaker 1: quitting on them. They need to know who their shitty
Speaker 1: bosses are. Who are the shitty managers who actually could
Speaker 1: use a little bit of professional development support, some training
Speaker 1: like who deserves and the manager sect to get a
Speaker 1: performance improvement plan, And it sounds like your boss does.
Speaker 1: So what are the levers that you can pull within
Speaker 1: your company to actually let people know that this manager
Speaker 1: is making it harder for you to do your job
Speaker 1: and it's not just you. So that's my first question.
Speaker 1: I've worked at places where you could actually once a year,
Speaker 1: they would have a survey that you could send out
Speaker 1: and you could provide anonymous feedback on your manager. But
Speaker 1: if you guys have that like annual survey, and if
Speaker 1: it's not coming up in the next couple of weeks,
Speaker 1: then I think it's time to actually take this to
Speaker 1: It can be either someone in HR, it can be
Speaker 1: your boss's boss. You can arrange something called the skip
Speaker 1: level meeting where you intentionally reach out to a person
Speaker 1: above your boss and have a candid conversation about what
Speaker 1: you've been experiencing. Do not go in there, This is
Speaker 1: my advice to you. Don't go in there empty handed.
Speaker 1: In terms of data and information and actual examples of
Speaker 1: what has happened. I think you should definitely be in
Speaker 1: the collecting of data phase right now. So start writing
Speaker 1: out what has she said, what has she done that
Speaker 1: has created a toxic work culture, And the more concrete
Speaker 1: examples you can give, the more likely it is that
Speaker 1: they will actually do something about them. So if you
Speaker 1: walk into your manager's manager's office and you say, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm having a really hard time with Tracy. She's making
Speaker 1: my job just you know, horrible and awful. Now you're
Speaker 1: just creating a problem that this manager's manager has to
Speaker 1: figure out, make their job a little bit easier, and
Speaker 1: also make it more likely that they're going to take
Speaker 1: your claim seriously. By having some cold, hard facts. Not
Speaker 1: only does this illustrate the reality of what's going on,
Speaker 1: but it also shows them, Wow, this this person is
Speaker 1: bad enough where Rebecca feels like she has to keep
Speaker 1: tabs on all these different instances and occurrences. So put
Speaker 1: the power, take the power back in a little bit
Speaker 1: of control by starting to document all of the situations
Speaker 1: that have occurred where this boss has, like I said,
Speaker 1: created a toxic environment, ben demoralizing. Take screenshots if she's
Speaker 1: texting or sending emails or slack messages, whatever it is
Speaker 1: that are causing these situations. Take your screenshots, get organized,
Speaker 1: and then plan a meeting. And if you want to
Speaker 1: combine forces with the other people on your team. There
Speaker 1: really is power in numbers. If a company knows that
Speaker 1: it's not just one person who's having an issue with
Speaker 1: this boss, it's six people. And by the way, this
Speaker 1: team is in danger of falling apart, as are our
Speaker 1: financial goals and our business goals for this team. Believe me,
Speaker 1: they will listen to you. So I think there's power
Speaker 1: in numbers. If you want to get together a little
Speaker 1: consortium or a group of colleagues and maybe set up
Speaker 1: a group meeting to speak in a safe space with
Speaker 1: your manager's manager, whoever else at the company you can
Speaker 1: identify to accept this kind of complaint, that's a good strategy.
Speaker 1: But definitely walk in there with concrete examples. It's going
Speaker 1: to make everything go a lot faster and be a
Speaker 1: lot more likely they're actually going to take action. Now,
Speaker 1: how they react to your complaints about this manager and
Speaker 1: your documentation is going to tell you the real truth
Speaker 1: about their work culture. If they really are committed to
Speaker 1: creating the kind of culture that you're describing, where they
Speaker 1: want people to feel welcome, where they want you to
Speaker 1: do your best work and to be thriving. And yes,
Speaker 1: we're going to achieve our business goals, but we're not
Speaker 1: going to do it at the expense of our mental
Speaker 1: health and the expense of our happiness in general. Then
Speaker 1: they will take your complaints seriously, or they should and
Speaker 1: actually either do something meaningful to get this manager, you know,
Speaker 1: on the right path. They should get rid of her,
Speaker 1: reassign her, maybe they can reassign you to someone else.
Speaker 1: They should do something, take some sort of action, maybe
Speaker 1: give them, I don't know, a few weeks to do something.
Speaker 1: But if they don't do something, then that actually tells
Speaker 1: you what they really mean about that culture they're trying
Speaker 1: to cultivate, because if they're not going to solve this problem,
Speaker 1: then that culture was always a ticking time bomb. It
Speaker 1: was always going to fall apart because they're not protecting it.
Speaker 1: Companies have to be protective. They have to be unapologetically
Speaker 1: protective about anything that can be a threat to employee retention,
Speaker 1: employee happiness, and to that culture that they say that
Speaker 1: they want to cultivate. And the uncomfortable truth about that
Speaker 1: is that they're going to have to identify these shitty
Speaker 1: managers and do something about them. And the more companies
Speaker 1: are willing to acknowledge that it's not just the lowest,
Speaker 1: you know, entry level employee that they have to pay
Speaker 1: attention to, it's managers, Like why aren't we training better
Speaker 1: managers like we cause, like they're causing so many issues
Speaker 1: out there right. So I'm obviously really really fired up
Speaker 1: about how important it is for companies to identify, you know,
Speaker 1: crappy managers give them the support and training that they need.
Speaker 1: I'm not even saying that it's your boss's fault that
Speaker 1: maybe she's creating this. She may not even be aware
Speaker 1: of it, and you know what, it may be coming
Speaker 1: from her higher ups. They may be putting pressure on her.
Speaker 1: So we need to get to the root cause of it,
Speaker 1: and they need to fix it. And if they don't
Speaker 1: fix it, then I think it's okay for you to
Speaker 1: move on, you know, find a company where you can
Speaker 1: work for, you know, work for that actually enforces the
Speaker 1: culture that they, you know, talk about creating or dentally
Speaker 1: moving to a different team at your company. So keeping
Speaker 1: an ear out and an eye out for who says
Speaker 1: they love working for their manager and see if maybe
Speaker 1: you could request a transfer to that team. Even like,
Speaker 1: you got to look out for yourself, right, and you
Speaker 1: got to you gotta put your own foot forward when
Speaker 1: it comes to coming up with solutions. Sometimes that work
Speaker 1: best for you because the company may not always know
Speaker 1: what's what's best for you personally, but you're always going
Speaker 1: to have you know your best interests in mind, right,
Speaker 1: So if they don't have a good solution that works
Speaker 1: for you, sometimes coming with your own idea of a
Speaker 1: solution can help. Thank you so much for your question.
Speaker 1: Thank you for setting this in. I hope things improve,
Speaker 1: but definitely pluck up the courage, get a couple of
Speaker 1: your colleagues together, go at this as a team and
Speaker 1: a unified front, and I think you'll actually have a
Speaker 1: really good chance about getting some sort of action taken
Speaker 1: in this case. Okay, all right, I got all fired
Speaker 1: up with that one. We will be right back with
Speaker 1: another question for the ba Q and a Hey, hey
Speaker 1: bea fan. It's Bandy and I am back to answer
Speaker 1: more of a your juicy juicy career in finance questions again.
Speaker 1: Hit us up at brandimbissionpodcast dot com or our ig
Speaker 1: at Brand Andbission podcast with all of your juicy money
Speaker 1: and career questions. I am really excited about this question.
Speaker 1: I hope I can help this listener. They want to
Speaker 1: remain anonymous, which I think when I get into the question,
Speaker 1: you'll understand why here we go, This listener says, and
Speaker 1: let me think of a name. Let's call her Jane.
Speaker 1: Jane says, I recently got a new job and I've
Speaker 1: been working here for about a month. I have about
Speaker 1: four to five years of experience in construction accounting, and
Speaker 1: I was hesitant to take this position because the title
Speaker 1: was for an accounting associate, which to me means entry level.
Speaker 1: During my interview, the controller advised I would hit the
Speaker 1: ground running learn more about higher level accounting jobs available
Speaker 1: while continuing to practice construction accounting. But it's been a
Speaker 1: month and I have yet to be assigned any daily tasks.
Speaker 1: The majority of my work has been scanning boxes and papers.
Speaker 1: The controller has told me multiple times in the last
Speaker 1: four weeks to just hang on. There will be more
Speaker 1: work for me to do, But I'm having a hard
Speaker 1: time finding where I fit in at this company. The
Speaker 1: controller also told me after ninety days, I will have
Speaker 1: a job title change, but she hasn't given me any
Speaker 1: details about it. So I've asked, I've expressed my readiness
Speaker 1: to have tasks piled on me. I'm starting to feel
Speaker 1: like I was sold a dream and I made a
Speaker 1: mistake by quitting a company I was with for two
Speaker 1: years for this opportunity. The benefits at this job are
Speaker 1: significantly better than my last job, but I took a
Speaker 1: pay decrease. My question is how long do I continue
Speaker 1: to wait and see if I will be anything more
Speaker 1: than a glorified paper filer. Ooh, so we're having a
Speaker 1: little career buyers remorse. Yes, you know what, First and foremost,
Speaker 1: it's not your fault. It's well, you know what, is
Speaker 1: it your fault? It's a little bit your fault. You know,
Speaker 1: you did take a job that you knew was an
Speaker 1: entry level position. And I think in that regard, we
Speaker 1: have to really be able to have our BS meter
Speaker 1: really high for companies when you're in the recruiting process,
Speaker 1: because companies, at the end of the day, they're trying
Speaker 1: to sell you on a position. And I think we've
Speaker 1: all been in those job interviews where you feel like
Speaker 1: things are way rosier during the interview process than when
Speaker 1: you actually get to see behind the curtain after you're hired, right,
Speaker 1: And I mean, it's the same reason why real estate
Speaker 1: agents stage a home. Obviously, they're going to make it
Speaker 1: look like this fantastic place to live, and even though
Speaker 1: you know you don't actually own that furniture, it helps
Speaker 1: you buy the home. It helps them make it feel
Speaker 1: like home to you. So yeah, recruiters hiring managers will
Speaker 1: often make things seem a little bit rosier. But this
Speaker 1: is pretty egregious. It's very egregious when someone hires you
Speaker 1: and they know that you are overqualified for a role,
Speaker 1: and they acknowledge that, and they also say, okay, we'll
Speaker 1: give us a little bit of time. We'll make sure
Speaker 1: that you get a job title change and that you
Speaker 1: are able to grow and advance in this role. But
Speaker 1: then they're actually not making good on their word. So
Speaker 1: in an interview process, I think what you should follow
Speaker 1: up with. I know it's a little bit too little,
Speaker 1: too late, but for anyone listening who's in your situation
Speaker 1: and potentially looking at a job that would be a
Speaker 1: bit of a step down, ask them for concrete steps
Speaker 1: in a concrete timeline, for when you'll actually get to
Speaker 1: take on additional responsibilities, a new title, all of that. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm remembering a recent coaching client of my of my own.
Speaker 1: She actually had a very similar situation in the legal
Speaker 1: She had a legal background and she was in a
Speaker 1: really toxic work environment, so she was a bit more
Speaker 1: vulnerable to being sold in dream because obviously in that situation,
Speaker 1: you just want to get the hell out. So when
Speaker 1: she was interviewing, and she knew it was a bit
Speaker 1: of a step down, but she was told the exact
Speaker 1: same thing you were. Come on board. I know there's
Speaker 1: no work in this particular area that you're passionate about
Speaker 1: right now, but just give me a few months stick around,
Speaker 1: and sure enough, none of that work materialized, just like
Speaker 1: for you, you're finding out. Okay, it's been a little bit.
Speaker 1: It's been a little bit, and I'm worried, like I'm
Speaker 1: actually not seeing any progress You're I'm not entirely surprised,
Speaker 1: but I think you have a couple of options. I
Speaker 1: think you can bide your time and continue waiting. It
Speaker 1: has been four weeks, right, and it hasn't been the
Speaker 1: full ninety days, And I think the first ninety days
Speaker 1: of any job is very much like a wait and see.
Speaker 1: You're kind of getting into a groove. They're kind of
Speaker 1: getting into a groove. I wouldn't take the pressure off.
Speaker 1: I would continue bringing it up. I would continue asking
Speaker 1: for the work. I would continue letting her know or
Speaker 1: letting him know that you are expecting. You know what
Speaker 1: you were promised in your early conversations when you were interviewing.
Speaker 1: But I wouldn't stop looking for other opportunities. And I
Speaker 1: would also I would definitely be sure that you're keeping
Speaker 1: one eye open for other opportunities. If you decide in
Speaker 1: a couple of more months it is actually time for
Speaker 1: you to go. It's a shame, but at the same time,
Speaker 1: you have to put yourself first in this regard. They
Speaker 1: made mistakes, like you made a bit of a mistake,
Speaker 1: because you not a mistake so much, but you know,
Speaker 1: you went into this job knowing that it was a
Speaker 1: bit of a risk, knowing that it may not be
Speaker 1: the exact right fit, kind of putting your trust in
Speaker 1: someone else and they didn't deliver, and that sucks. That
Speaker 1: was a risk that you took when you took this
Speaker 1: job right, But you shouldn't stay in the job just
Speaker 1: because you feel like, Okay, well I'm here now the
Speaker 1: benefits are a little bit better. I said I would
Speaker 1: do it. I don't want to look like a job hopper.
Speaker 1: You think you can definitely explain to another hiring manager
Speaker 1: why you would be looking to change jobs. Just like
Speaker 1: my coaching client, Oh girl, when I tell you, when
Speaker 1: I first met with her, she was also worried, like, oh,
Speaker 1: but I just joined this job a couple of months ago.
Speaker 1: You know, will a hiring manager look down upon me
Speaker 1: and worry about me, thinking that I'm risky because I'm
Speaker 1: trying to jump ships so quickly. And I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: just tell the truth. Tell the next hiring manager. You
Speaker 1: know what. I took this role because I was excited
Speaker 1: for the possibility of growth, and it was very apparent
Speaker 1: to me within my first thirty sixty ninety days. However
Speaker 1: long it's been that that growth was actually not going
Speaker 1: to be coming. And I don't want to wait. I
Speaker 1: can't afford to wait. I don't want my professional skills
Speaker 1: to a trophy. I don't want my earning potential, you know,
Speaker 1: to be diminished. And I think any you know, recruiter
Speaker 1: or hiring manager who gets it and is in their
Speaker 1: right mind won't actually look down upon you for that
Speaker 1: or penalize you for it. They'll see that and be like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: let's make sure we're actually going to give you, know,
Speaker 1: I forgot what I name that I give you Jane
Speaker 1: your fake name. We're actually going to give Jane, you know,
Speaker 1: a really clear expectation of what she can expect here.
Speaker 1: And I think any company should be willing to, like,
Speaker 1: should be should understand that. Okay, if we hire someone
Speaker 1: and we tell them something and then we promise them
Speaker 1: something and we actually don't deliver on it, that they're
Speaker 1: going to leave. So for me, it seems like perfectly
Speaker 1: normal and perfectly reasonable that you were promised something, given
Speaker 1: some kind of dream, it didn't materialize, and so you're
Speaker 1: gonna get out like you're just a person who respects
Speaker 1: themselves in their career enough to get out when you're
Speaker 1: not in a good situation, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And I will say my coaching client had a really
Speaker 1: happy ending. She actually got a brand new offer at
Speaker 1: a job that was like more money, great benefits. So
Speaker 1: when you talk about you know the fact that this
Speaker 1: job has slightly or significantly better benefits than your previous job.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't stay here just because of that, because the
Speaker 1: fact that you found a job with significantly better benefits
Speaker 1: just shows you that, Okay, there's actually great benefits out here.
Speaker 1: You just have to be really particular and make sure
Speaker 1: that you pay attention to what companies are offering just
Speaker 1: outside of your compensation. So absolutely, I think you should
Speaker 1: be keeping one eye open to the job market, and
Speaker 1: I think you should learn from this experience. You mentioned
Speaker 1: here that you're in your late twenties. It's just a
Speaker 1: good learning experience for you at this point, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you took a risk. This is what happened. All right,
Speaker 1: we're just going to bounce back from it. Right. We're
Speaker 1: either going to stay here and make the most of
Speaker 1: it and continue advocating for yourself and pushing to get
Speaker 1: what you want, becoming a thorn in their side. It's
Speaker 1: a good learning experience for you. It's also a damn
Speaker 1: good learning experience for your boss. I was that boss too,
Speaker 1: and I had to learn for my own mistake that
Speaker 1: when you actually hire someone who's overqualified for a role,
Speaker 1: you're just opening yourself up to You're going to be annoyed.
Speaker 1: They're going to be unhappy, because what as a manager,
Speaker 1: there's nothing worse then knowing someone on your team is
Speaker 1: unhappy and just like waiting like, oh, I can't give
Speaker 1: them what I said I would. There's nothing I can
Speaker 1: really do about it. They're not happy. Now I got
Speaker 1: to hear them moan and groan and complain every one
Speaker 1: on one. You know, it just sucks for all involved.
Speaker 1: So unfortunately it's going to be a good lesson for
Speaker 1: this manager as well. I hope that they remember this
Speaker 1: situation so they don't do it again, because it's just silly.
Speaker 1: It's a real It's like one of those situations where
Speaker 1: you're not thinking long term. You're just trying to like
Speaker 1: solve an immediate problem. I need a butt in the seat,
Speaker 1: I need someone to do this job, to push these
Speaker 1: papers or whatever. When you're hiring from the perspective of
Speaker 1: just the short term gains or short short term goals,
Speaker 1: you're just opening yourself up to having a long term,
Speaker 1: you know, catastrophe on your hands because you're just not
Speaker 1: thinking down the line. It's a good managerial lesson and
Speaker 1: if for anyone who's listening who's in a hiring position.
Speaker 1: Just do what you can. Take your time when it
Speaker 1: comes to hiring. You're better off sometimes just hiring someone
Speaker 1: for on a freelance base, on a contractor basis to
Speaker 1: fill an immediate need while you take your damn time
Speaker 1: and find the exact right fit for that role for
Speaker 1: the long term. And that was one of the great
Speaker 1: lessons I learned as a manager was, oh, I can
Speaker 1: ask for a budget and I can hire freelance help
Speaker 1: just to kind of get by. Hit our KPIs, you know,
Speaker 1: our key performance indicators, hit our goals, and then I
Speaker 1: can take my time, you know, recruiting and finding the
Speaker 1: exact right fit. So hopefully your manager will learn that goal.
Speaker 1: And if you decide to leave and you give an
Speaker 1: exit interview, be honest about what happened, and hopefully they'll
Speaker 1: take that as a learning lesson and do better next
Speaker 1: time and everyone will be better off in the end.
Speaker 1: But definitely keep your eye and ear open for new
Speaker 1: opportunities and never forget this situation. Maybe be you know,
Speaker 1: ask for those specific when someone promises you, okay, you
Speaker 1: come on, it's this way now, things will change down
Speaker 1: the line. What sort of specific guarantees can they give you,
Speaker 1: or what sort of specific timeline or resource versus do
Speaker 1: they have in mind. And especially I would definitely be
Speaker 1: suspicious if a hiring manager is like, oh, yeah, don't worry,
Speaker 1: I'm going to get you promoted in the next few months.
Speaker 1: That's just not something that happens. Having been in the
Speaker 1: corporate environment and having managed a team of thirty people,
Speaker 1: you know, as a senior director, promotions take time, there's
Speaker 1: a process for them. Usually I would want to get
Speaker 1: more sources and more assurances. Maybe it's from someone actually
Speaker 1: in HR, not just a hiring manager who's not in HR,
Speaker 1: that there's actually like it's a possibility that you'll be
Speaker 1: promoted or get a new title change in that short
Speaker 1: period of time. And then you may see, oh, there's
Speaker 1: actually some holes and this whole vision and rosy story
Speaker 1: that I'm being sold and I'm actually not going to
Speaker 1: move forward because I don't trust this is actually going
Speaker 1: to be the case. All right, Miss Jane mis Anonymous,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your question. And that wraps
Speaker 1: up another episode of The BAQ and A. I am
Speaker 1: Mandy Mandy Money. You can me at Mandy Money on
Speaker 1: ig follow us and hit us up on at brand
Speaker 1: Ambition Podcast on IG with your questions. Also check out
Speaker 1: our beautiful, brand new website, Brandambission podcast dot com where
Speaker 1: you can find past episodes. You can find soon transcripts
Speaker 1: of episodes as well as show notes everything you want
Speaker 1: to find at brandambisson podcast dot com. I will see
Speaker 1: y'all next Friday for ba Q and a