1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to the Buck Sexton Show. On this episode, 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: our friend Michael Malice. He is back, He is in action, 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: and he is ready to party. The White Pill is 4 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: his book, which I have right here. I was assigned 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: this as homework by Michael, and hopefully I'll get a 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: passing grade. I did have to read like the latter 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,159 Speaker 1: half of it quickly, but I did read it. The 8 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: White Pill a tale of good and evil, and I 9 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: think there's a lot of lessons. There's a lot of 10 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: great history in this, Michael, which I really appreciate. I 11 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: think one of the areas, even for people in this 12 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: country who think of themselves as history buffer or what 13 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: have you, the actual history of the Soviet Revolution and 14 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: more broadly, what was really going on in the Soviet 15 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: Union is a massive, a massive hole in the education 16 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: of American history, I think, and your book, again right here, 17 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: goes a nice way to addressing some of that gap. 18 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: I think that's also partly by design that there's this 19 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: massive hole, because what we're taught in schools, we like 20 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: to have a nice little narrative that there's the good 21 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 1: guys and the bad guys, and the founding fathers were 22 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: all the good guys, and the Brits were the bad guys, 23 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: and then the North were the good guys and the 24 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: South were the bad guys. And then world War Two 25 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: the Allies where the good guys and the Axis were 26 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: the bad guys. Now it's clear that the Axis were 27 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: the bad guys. But we're partners with Stalin, and if 28 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: you start getting into too much of what Stalin did, 29 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,199 Speaker 1: all of a sudden that little good guys bad guys 30 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: thing falls apart, and I think that does an enormous disservice. 31 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: As a friend of mine pointed out, which genocidal ideology 32 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: should I be more worried about the one that lost 33 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 1: or the one that won. So I think it's important 34 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: for especially conservatives, who kind of often have this incorrect 35 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: idea that things started getting bad twenty years ago and 36 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: all these different organizations, whether the universities or Hollywood or Washington, 37 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: were somehow co opted by the left. This is not 38 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: only not new, but what had been going on, especially 39 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: in the thirties, it was so much worse, is so 40 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: much more depraved in many ways than what we're facing 41 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: now that I thought it was important to put forward, 42 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: you know, exactly what half of the world effectively went through. 43 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: And it saddens me that so many people, and obviously 44 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: I was born in the Civil Union, so many people 45 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 1: and what they went through is being forgotten when this 46 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: is a victory that happened in the lifetimes of pretty 47 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: much everyone listening to this show. Yes, you could definitely 48 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: argue the greatest in terms of population and number of people, 49 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: the greatest liberation of humanity to freedom from abject tyranny, 50 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: occurred in your lifetime and in my lifetime, and it's 51 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: really not thought of in that context. I think, I 52 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: think nearly enough. I don't think people understand. You know, 53 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: we think we have a bit of a cartoonish view. 54 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: And look, I love Rocky for I'm not saying it's 55 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: not a really fun movie. But you know, the Soviets, 56 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: I think in retro specter thought of almost more as 57 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: Um and the whole Soviet system as you know, poor 58 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: but poor, buffoonish, oh fish. You know, we have all 59 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: these these this this notion of the Commissar, whether it's 60 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: in it's in Um, the Hunt for Red October or 61 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: you know, any of the any of the pop culture, 62 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: it's always some fat Russian guy with a bunch of 63 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: metals on there's like I'm during going vodka, and it's 64 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: like these people were actually sending women and children and 65 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: and and everybody to effectively extermination camps in Siberia and 66 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: to mass imprisonment and to mass torture, and it's not 67 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: thought of him quite that way. And I think your 68 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: book explores that. I also think it's important for you 69 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: to continue to tell people why is that, Michael, Why 70 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: why is it that the there's always a soft pedaling 71 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: of the Soviet atrocity. Well, I think one of the 72 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: big reasons, and I'm confident that you'd agree, is that 73 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: so many people in the West had had blood on 74 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: their hands as a consequence. Despite what you know political 75 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: when the New York Times might tell you in twenty 76 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: twenty three, there was never a strong Nazi presence in 77 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: the United States. This is not a thing you had 78 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: the bund but they were basically kind of marginalized in 79 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: a joke. There was very much a very strong not 80 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: just communist in the sense of, oh, I believe in 81 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: communism is an ideal, but literally many people answering directly 82 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: to Stalin and the far side of what later became 83 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: the Iron curtain and the one time when they were 84 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: accountable for their actions. The fact that you know, we 85 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: gave someone who's killed millions of his own countrymen, got 86 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: handed the Adam bomb, and things like this. The fact 87 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: that so many of these Western outlets are still in 88 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: power today, are still treated with respect today, is I 89 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: think a major reason why this is soft pedaled. There's 90 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: a great quote in the book that I found. You know, 91 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: we were all told that, you know, the night the McCarthyism, 92 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: you know which hunts, and you know a playwriter I'm 93 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: like in her name, she was like, but there weren't 94 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: which is in Salem. But there were these communists. These 95 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: were people actively and intentionally member of an organization dedicated 96 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: to secretly and to violent overthrow of the United States 97 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: government in the service of what had been at the 98 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: time the most evil or maybe one of the two 99 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: most evil governments on earth. So it's never framed in 100 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 1: that way. And I think I did what little I 101 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 1: could do to point out exactly what it was that 102 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: was so bad about their views. It's not that they're 103 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: just looking for equality and you know, Buck, everyone has 104 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: to have a job and we need more housing, please, 105 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: you know it is so removed from that. It is 106 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: defending people being tortured. It is defending children being taught 107 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: in school to turn their parents into the police, even 108 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: if they their parents have retribution and kill them. It 109 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: is starvation for political purposes. It is mass deportations of 110 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: many peoples from their ancestral lands in order to break 111 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: them and for the sake of the common good, so 112 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: that they're subservient to the state. None of these things 113 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: are discussed in the way, and frankly, I think in 114 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 1: many ways it's a failure of conservatism. Where you know, 115 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: the worst thing that often is said about about communism 116 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: is that it's godless. But it's so it's not just godless, 117 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: it's downright satanic. Yes, no, it goes beyond that. There's 118 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: a there's a sadism, and actually that's for anybody. And 119 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: you there's so many really poignant anecdotes in the book 120 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: about you know, for example, the little girl. This is 121 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: from Michael's book. There's a little girl who is outside 122 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: in a breadline. We always think of the Soviet breadlines. 123 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: And again we have this this sort of mentality of 124 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: its people. You know, they're in the babush gun. It's 125 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: sad and they're in line there. It's like, well, actually, 126 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: the guy at the front of the line sees a 127 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: girl who's part of the Kulak class because they're all 128 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: inline waiting for food, right, and hits her with a 129 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,119 Speaker 1: knife and kicks her in the stomach and she dies 130 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: right there, a little girl who's starving, that dies in 131 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: front of everybody. And his response to this, as you 132 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: write in the book, is you know, well, you know, 133 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: you never know where the class any are going to 134 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: come from, right, or there's something you know, this is 135 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 1: another sign of the weakness of our class enemies. There's 136 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: no humanity, there's no decency, and that's just that. That's 137 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: a a vignette that I think exposes um so much 138 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: more of us. I mean, for example, the Gulag Archipelago, 139 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: which people you know Orwell is amazing and gets a 140 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: lot of credit. Though Orwell was kind of a slowly 141 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: reforming socialist himself, or reforming at all. He was a 142 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: hardcore socialist. So the day he died Well he went less. 143 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: He went less less socialist. I think I would argue 144 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: he was starting to see the problems of a socialist system. 145 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: He said explicitly every word I write is in defense 146 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: of democratic socialism, and I don't understand it democratic socialism, right, 147 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: you're gonna tell ye not well, I mean, but this 148 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: is no. But this is the game they play all 149 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: the time, Like what's the difference seen Bernie Sanders and 150 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: Stalin One is democratic socialism and one is you know, 151 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: socialism socialism. So no, I actually I do think that 152 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: there's some there's some game that maybe it's false, but 153 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: there's a game that's played with the moderation of what 154 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: the socialist intent actually is. And Orwell recognize that a 155 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: truly empowered socialist state now national socialist state, but that 156 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: would be a whole other conversation too, created the horrors 157 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: that he wrote about. Anyway, I didn't want to get 158 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: into the Orwell discussion as much as I just wanted 159 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: to say souls and neats in I think is as 160 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: important an author and is probably assigned in school you 161 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: know one percent as often or you know one tenth 162 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: maybe as often, and you know souls and neats in. 163 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: I think in Gulag Archipelago, the thing that really strikes 164 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: people is just how evil people in this system were 165 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: willing to be every day. And it was nothing and 166 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: no one cares. It wasn't just they're willing, they're excited. 167 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,839 Speaker 1: This was their channel who however, somebody else. The people 168 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: who are arrested for political purposes were told explicitly, you 169 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: are lower than rapists and murderers because they're still people, 170 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: an enemy of the people, And it was encouraged and 171 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 1: we see this still to this day in North Korea. 172 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: It is you're encouraged to be cruel and vindictive and 173 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: make them suffer because you're the good guys and there's 174 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: something far beneath human This is something obviously very mirrored 175 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: in Nazi ideology. So it's it's extremely you know, it's 176 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: extremely disturbing when you look at historically what these systems 177 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: mean in practice, right, because you know, there's this whole 178 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: idea of what communism is great in theory but bad 179 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: in practice. What everything is great in theory, what does 180 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: that even mean? Like what kind of idea is bad 181 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: in theory? It is practice where you determine whether an 182 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: idea is good or not. And when we saw over decades, 183 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: over how many countries, what this meant for the average person. 184 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 1: You know, children chained to cribs because they were handed 185 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: over by their starving parents, who were told the government 186 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: can raise them better than they could, who gave up 187 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 1: on crying because they knew no one was going to 188 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: come to pick them up. You and I and pretty 189 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: much everyone sitting to the show can sit all day long, 190 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: and if we try to, like rack our brains for 191 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: how sadistic we could be, we would never think of 192 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,559 Speaker 1: half these things because our brains aren't wired like this. 193 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: We're not raised in cultures where it's considered appropriate at 194 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: least yet to turn power against the weak and those 195 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: who we don't like and just do just the most vindictive, 196 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: vicious things and pat ourselves in the back for it. 197 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: I want to bring this into our current context a 198 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: little bit, actually, and I make the argument to people, 199 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: and I can tell that it's it's really uncomfortable for them. 200 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: But you know, you and I were in contact a 201 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: lot during the COVID and what was going on in 202 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: New York and the lockdowns, and I try to remind 203 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: everyone that there was, to your point about almost a glee, 204 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: Like there was a glee that some people took in 205 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: the extreme of it all, and there was a clear 206 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: joy that you would see in the eyes of people 207 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: just in the eyes who were masked police, for example, 208 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: walking around or telling Union, why aren't you're close to me? 209 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: Social distancing they took, They took some level of joy 210 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: and treating their fellow human beings as though they were 211 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: unclean one and also that they could lord it over 212 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: them in some way. Yes, and I say to everybody, 213 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: you know, okay, yeah, it wasn't you know, they weren't 214 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:21,719 Speaker 1: hurting us off into camps. I mean, they started to 215 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: do something like that in Australia. They obviously did do 216 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: that in China, but it also was a virus with 217 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: a real fatality rate, a real fatality rate of you know, 218 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: point zero two maybe point zero zero two, depends on 219 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: whose numbers now you want to believe. Spanish flu had 220 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: a five percent fatality rate in the United States back 221 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: when nineteen eighteen, nineteen nineteen, nineteen twenty. So I feel 222 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: like if people were willing to do that for something 223 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: that wasn't that extreme, that we're actually much closer to 224 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: falling into a full blown totalitarian society in America than 225 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: anybody had previously realized. One of the big illusions I 226 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: think a lot of people have is that America's magic 227 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: in the sense that these things that happened in other 228 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: countries can't possibly happen here. And I think a lot 229 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: of people, especially on the right, when they looked at 230 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: how their fellow countrymen acted during COVID, had a big 231 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: wake up call as to how many people really regard 232 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: liberty as their highest value. And what we saw and 233 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: I learned in my research for The White Pill is 234 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: in East Germany they had an enormous the biggest informant 235 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: network the world I'd ever seen, thanks to the Stazi, 236 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: which was their secret police. And after the wall fell 237 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,599 Speaker 1: and Germany was reunified, just the beautiful, beautiful scenes and 238 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: some of my favorite parts of the book, you know, 239 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: the Stazi archives were opened and a reporter spoke to 240 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: one of these former Stazi recruiters and Buck, you and 241 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: I probably thought, I certainly thought that, Okay, here's how 242 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: it works. They capture me and they're like give me 243 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: five names or else we're going to kill your family. 244 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 1: And like, Buck, I love you, but if I got 245 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: to drop your name to save my family, it's going 246 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: to happen. And I think this situation would be reversed. 247 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: You'd hold out as much as you could, but a 248 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: certain poet. You're like, I'm being I can't sleep, You're 249 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: threatening my children, you're threatening my mom. I just got 250 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: to give your names. I just can do anything to 251 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: get the torture to stop. That's not what happened in 252 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: East Germany. They were people who were just bored or lonely, 253 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: or just wanted someone to talk to, or wanted to 254 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: have the opportunity to feel important for once in their lives. 255 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: So we don't have to speculate as to what it 256 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: takes to get people to turn into informants and to 257 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,199 Speaker 1: be amenable to telltalitary and systems. We've seen it historically, 258 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: and we've seen it here during COVID, and I would 259 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: hope people realize that this is far more pervasive and 260 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,199 Speaker 1: far more universal part of the human experience than even 261 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: I would have liked to have believed. You know, there's 262 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: the souls of Neats in story and I remember where 263 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: there's a woman who goes into the you know, this 264 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: is obviously in the Soviet era. A woman goes into 265 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: the effect of the local police station and says, you know, 266 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 1: the constables and says, because her neighbor had and seized 267 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: another woman at night, never to be seen again, seized, 268 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: but left behind an infant, like a you know, six 269 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: month old baby, and and she goes. The neighbor goes 270 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: to the police station to say, you know, hey, is 271 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: the mother coming back? If not, you know, should I 272 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: step in and do something here to help out with 273 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: this baby's going to starve to death. They arrested the neighbor. 274 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: And when asked when when asked later on why one 275 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: of these individuals why they arrested the neighbor, the explanation 276 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: that sould Theson heard from a you know, another bureaucrat, 277 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: another police officer, was to save them the time. That 278 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: was the attitude. It's like, oh, you're already here. We're 279 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: just gonna grab you, because we're probably gonna have to 280 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: grab you at some point anyway, and you've already showed 281 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: up to the station. So now you also go into 282 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: the cell and you either go to Siberia or you 283 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: just go up against a wall and we execute you. 284 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: Thank you for saving us the time. That was the attitude. 285 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: And you know, obviously that's a lethal matter and it's 286 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: particularly depraved. But I really did get the sense, and 287 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: I know people get mad at me when I say this, 288 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: I get the sense that there were a lot of 289 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: people who during COVID in this country not only would 290 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: have complied with, but would have felt, here's maybe a 291 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: better way of putting in, Michael, there were people who 292 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: were openly celebrating when other human beings died of a 293 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: virus because they thought that they represented the anti Fauci 294 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: point of view that was widespread, yes, explicit and constant. 295 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: But look to that point, with that, with that baby. 296 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: The other reason for arrest is this is a country 297 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: where kids are treated well the narrative. So if you're 298 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: pointing on an example where kids are treated poorly, you're 299 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: a provocateur. You're a troublemaker. Come with me. So what 300 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: happens in these systems is pointing out hypocrisies or problems 301 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: with the status quo in and of itself labels you 302 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: as a counter revolutionary. So everyone very quickly has to 303 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: learn to keep their heads down and keep their mouth shut. 304 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: And this is something that those of us coming from there. 305 00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: It's just very weird to me talking to people who've 306 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: been raised the like complete Americans, because a lot of 307 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: times they'll say things that's just so different from how 308 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: I was raised, and it's just things that just kind 309 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: of I guess, you know, you're culturally, you're just brought 310 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: certain ways, like Americans are very big on Like I 311 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: remember I had a group of people where everyone's trying 312 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: to give each other advice, and so give a problem 313 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: at work, Well, the American answer is always well, take 314 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: the person, sit down and talk with them, have it out. 315 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: And for someone from a Soviet background, it's like no, no. 316 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: The first question is, well, what power does this person 317 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: have because they might smile and not at the meeting, 318 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: but then they'll stab you in the back later. Are 319 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: they going to start a file on you? This is 320 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: the kind of psychology that develops in these countries, and 321 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: this is something Americans, I think are thankfully very naive 322 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: about about how vindictive and petty small bureaucrats often can be. 323 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: And sadly, I think some Americans are starting to learn 324 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: that the true nature of that. And a good example 325 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: of this is when the parents were protesting about the 326 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: stuff being taught to their kids, and now the parents 327 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: were in an investigation and being labeled as terrorists or 328 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: being alluded to as terrorists. This is the sort of 329 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 1: thing that Americans just never think of. But it's like, yes, 330 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 1: the government will. If the government can arrest terrorists very quickly, 331 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: everyone who they don't like becomes a terrorist. Yeah, I'm 332 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 1: I'm somebody who you know that. There were There have 333 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: been two moments, I think politically for me that have 334 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: really shifted you could say my Overton window or my 335 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: perception of the country and what we are, what we 336 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: are up against. The first one was actually Kavanaugh, not 337 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: not even because it's like, oh, my gosh, Supreme Court. 338 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: So much is at stake that the Kamala Harris was 339 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: among them, that the most powerful voices in the Democrat 340 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: Party and the Democrats Senate at the time, we're willing 341 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: to clearly, erroneously and without any basis in any fact 342 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: or any reality, call a man a rapist in front 343 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: of his family in the whole country, just because they 344 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,719 Speaker 1: didn't want him to have a job. That means they 345 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: do to your dad, that means they do it to 346 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: your brother, they do to anybody, and feel good about 347 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 1: themselves too. It does not matter. It did not matter 348 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: to them. And then with COVID as well, the immiseration 349 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: of millions of people, the deaths of despair, that occurred 350 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,360 Speaker 1: as a result, the businesses that were destroyed, the livelihoods 351 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: that were ruled. I mean, we go down the whole list. 352 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: Not only were there people going along with all this, 353 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: and this was the part of it that really rocked 354 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: me as a New Yorker. It's why I'm no longer 355 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 1: a New Yorker. People thought they were happy. They were like, oh, 356 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: we're great, We're the good people. The monsters thought that 357 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: they were the heroes. Michael, that's the problem. But Buck, 358 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to push back a little bit, and I 359 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: don't think you're gonna disagree. The Democrats should have patted 360 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: themselves in the back about kavanaughh because none of them 361 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: have faced any consequences whatsoever for what they did other 362 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: than fundraising and being regard as leaders of a movement. 363 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: Chuck Grassley, who was either the chairman or the ranking 364 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: member of the Judiciary Committee, has sent out press releases. 365 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: I point out this story all the time, how he 366 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: wrote letters to think the Justice Department and either the 367 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 1: FBI CIA demanding answers as to how Julie Sweatnick, who 368 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 1: had no connection whatsoever to Kavanagh, who was claiming that 369 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 1: multiple gang rape party she attended he was somehow responsible 370 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: for Avanadi. Her attorney went to jail. They couldn't get 371 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,199 Speaker 1: her on CNN fast enough. Grassley wrote a letter being like, 372 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: what are the consequences for this woman? And in his 373 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,880 Speaker 1: press release he's boasting that his letters for a couple 374 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,360 Speaker 1: of years have now been ignored. So when you have 375 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: one party that is willing to do this and the 376 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: Republican responses, well, I'm going to write a sternly worded 377 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 1: letter and no one's going to answer me, and I'm 378 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: fighting for you. When you have this asymmetry, of course, 379 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: the incentives are always going to be to be as 380 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 1: tyrannical as possible, because there's no downside. I don't disagree 381 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: with you, so so that one coming. But let me 382 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: ask you would take a pause, Michael, because I want 383 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: to put in a word from our sponsor, but a 384 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,239 Speaker 1: question I want to put out there that you can 385 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: think about, and we'll come back to in her second 386 00:19:54,480 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: How close in ethos? How close in sent him? Are 387 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: the most radical elements of the Democrat Party in this 388 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: country and your average Soviet commissar circa nineteen fifty, just 389 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: pick a time. But well, I want to come back 390 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: to that in a second born from a tragedy of 391 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: nine eleven. The Tunnel of the Towers Foundation has been 392 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 1: honoring America's heroes ever since. Look, it's a really important 393 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: organization that honors fallen and severely injured heroes and their 394 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: families with mortgage free homes. This year alone, hundreds of 395 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,719 Speaker 1: gold Star and fallen first responder families with young children 396 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: and our nation's most severely injured veterans and first responders 397 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: are receiving homes. More than five hundred homeless veterans received 398 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: housing and services last year. More than fifteen hundred receiving 399 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: housing and services this year. Through the Tunnel of the 400 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: Towers nine eleven Institute, the foundation is educating kids in 401 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: kindergarten through twelfth grade about our nation's darkest day. Joined 402 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: Tunne of the Towers on its mission to do good. 403 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: Please help America to never forget its greatest heroes. Join 404 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: me in donating eleven dollars a month the Tunnel of 405 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 1: the Towers at t twot dot org. That's t the 406 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: number two T dot org. All right, Michael, returning to 407 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: our question, how close are not even the most radical? 408 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: How close are the administrative elements of the Democrat Party 409 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: in this country to the apparatus of the Soviets. I 410 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: think I'm going to duck the question a little bit, 411 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: but give you a answer you'll be happy with. I 412 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 1: think the Democratic Party and the members of the Democratic 413 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: Party are far more moderate and mainstream than the members 414 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: of the corporate press. I had a poll on my 415 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: Twitter once and I said, if you had these are 416 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 1: two choices people watching the show an't like. But if 417 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,679 Speaker 1: you had to choose to be the Supreme Court and 418 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 1: you had the choices, were nine random Democratic Senators or 419 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: nine random members of the New York Times editorial board, 420 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: which would you choose? And I think it was like 421 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: eighty twenty in favor of the Democratic Senate, the New 422 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: York Times and all these agencies. They're the ones who 423 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: are making the Democratic Party wag. It's not the other 424 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: way around. And I'll give you an example the demonstrates 425 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 1: this point. Let's suppose I'm a Democratic Party congressman. I 426 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: hate Trump. I think he's the worst. He's praising white 427 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: nationalist of Charles Is, all the other nons, you know, 428 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: the whole Bigan role. At the same time, I don't 429 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: think he committed any impeachable offenses. I think he shouldn't 430 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: be president. He's terrible, so and so forth. How could 431 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: I go in front of my constituents as a Democratic 432 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: congressperson when twenty four seven they're hearing Trump Rusher collusion, 433 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: Ukraine phone call, so and so forth and say, guys, 434 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: he's horrible, the worst president ever. But that's not enough 435 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: for impeachment. I would not be in that position. So 436 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: that demonstrates who has the power on the left intellectually 437 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 1: in this country. It is far more that the media, 438 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: who is accountable to no one as opposed to every 439 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: day Mitch McConnell, Nancy Pelosi and Kevin McCarthy and Chuck 440 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: Schumer will tell you how the other person is terrible. 441 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: No one is holding the New York Times or the 442 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: Washington Post accountable other than idiots like myself on Twitter. 443 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: So that to me is the far bigger concern. So 444 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: and as to the operatrics in the fifties, I didn't 445 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 1: really care they were in ideologues. It's like I think 446 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: it's a Upton. Sinclair is a big character in this book, 447 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: and there's a quote ascribed to him where it's almost 448 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: impossible to teach a man to believe something when his 449 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: salary depends on him not believing it. If I'm in 450 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties and the only way I could get 451 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: food is to parrot Stalinism, and if I slip up, 452 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: that sword's gonna kill me in my family, I'll be 453 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: singing louder than everybody else. You don't and you know 454 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: those saying goes. You don't want to be the first 455 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: one to stop clapping for Stalin. So I think people 456 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: need to appreciate that a lot of times, these these 457 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 1: entities in these organizations aren't a function literally of ideology 458 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: so much as people responding to very perverse incentives, and 459 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: often those incentives are a matter of life and death 460 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: for them and their families. I also think that there 461 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: there are things, and you get into some of them 462 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: in the book in terms of the level of awfulness, uh, 463 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: the everyday awfulness too. It's not bad. Things will happen 464 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: in a lot of countries, but you'll remember them as well. 465 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 1: That was an awful moment. You know that that was 466 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,959 Speaker 1: something terrible that happened, but it was just every day, right, 467 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: The every day awfulness of living under the Soviet regime. 468 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: But there are also stories that I think people they 469 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: just refused to believe. And I think it's so interesting 470 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: that in the Death of Stalin, which was a pretty 471 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: well made movie, for what it is, that whole sequence, 472 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: that whole sequence in the beginning where Stalin calls in 473 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: and wants a copy however they did it you know, 474 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 1: old school records. I forget what it is, but wanted 475 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: a copy of the of the you know, Moscow Orchestra performance, 476 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: and they had already finished. They did wake up the 477 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,479 Speaker 1: conductor and bring everyone back and do a rerecording of it. Like, 478 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: they brought everybody back, and I believe they even tried 479 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: to bring back members of the audience too. So they 480 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: had a performance at the main theater and I think 481 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: it was Moscow, might have been Saint Petersburg, but I 482 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: think it was Moscow, and they actually brought everybody back. 483 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: If people look, there's no way that actually happened. That 484 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 1: actually did happen, because everyone was terrified if it didn't 485 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 1: do it, he was going to have their family killed 486 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: as well as them. You know, all the horrible things 487 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: that you can imagine. That was life for people. Yeah, 488 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: it's it's the artists are, you know, had a particularly 489 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 1: tough time because if everything, anything can be perceived as 490 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: in any way not praising the system enough. We see 491 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: that even here with the political prectnice to far lesser extent. 492 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: Obviously people aren't getting murdered. But there's this one story. 493 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: I want to get this exact, the exact details. Um 494 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: uh here of um, there was a play that Stalin 495 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: didn't like, um and basically overnight, you know, your career 496 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: is just ruined. Apple can be sent away. Everyone who's 497 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: ever been associated with you, uh gets I'm trying to 498 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: get the exact um. I think the Shostakovich I want 499 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: to get it exactly here. Yeah, Shostakovich was in nineteen 500 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: thirty six. You know, he had a play called Lady 501 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: the Lady Macbeth of intensk Uh. There were articles about 502 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: it two days later, and the community stood up for him. 503 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: Because Shostakovich was and remains one of the great composers 504 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 1: of all time. Stalin just didn't have up until like one. 505 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: As a consequence of this, so the director's wife, he 506 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: stayed with the director's house. Her wife was stabbed to 507 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: death in the eyes when a marshal the Silviet Union. 508 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: This guy's very high up to Tachevski. He was defended Shostakovich. 509 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: He was tortured and shot. His body was sent to 510 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: a landfill. The librettost the of the of the performance, 511 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: was arrested and shot. His ex girlfriend vanished, his brother 512 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: in law who was a physicist, his sister, his mother 513 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,479 Speaker 1: in law, and his uncle. They were all arrested just 514 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,719 Speaker 1: because Stalin didn't like this play. So you know, to 515 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: your point, it's not that people were living in fear 516 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: of like you know, maybe Buck, you had this tweet 517 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: in college and crap, what if someone finds a screen 518 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: shot and it's gonna look bad for my career. You're 519 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: newly married. You, I've met your brothers. If something happens 520 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: to you or if they can't get to you. But 521 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: let's suppose I want to get to Buck. I don't 522 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 1: need to get to Buck. I've got a circle around you. 523 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: And let me tell you, everyone listening to this can 524 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: imagine themselves being tough, and there's nothing they can do 525 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: to me. You could arrest me, I'm not going to 526 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: break Bring in your wife, bring in your brothers, put 527 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: them in that cell. See what happens, and this is 528 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 1: something I think in the West were so correctly proud 529 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 1: of our respect for the individual and individual rights. It 530 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,719 Speaker 1: never even enters our head that innocent people who are 531 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: simply family members, it's not only automatically that their targets. 532 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: It's the law. It was a crime, a felony to 533 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: be married to an enemy of the people. And if 534 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,880 Speaker 1: you're arrested enemy the people, it's like, you can't defend yourself, 535 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: you know, the spouse can't say, well, I wasn't really 536 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: arrested married to them, and right away what happens also 537 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: is the children become orphans. And there was a lot 538 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 1: of handwringing in the Kremlin because all these kids started 539 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 1: killing themselves with good reason because overnight they were orphans 540 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: and no one would associate with them, because why are 541 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: you taking in a child of the enemy of the people. 542 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 1: So the level of depravity and evil in these societies 543 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: is so much worse than just like, oh, someone's this 544 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: fat guy, like you know, some faba food on the 545 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 1: top and it's his brother gets a pay cut and 546 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 1: you're hungry and you have to learn stupid things at school. 547 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,679 Speaker 1: Oh please, Like that is nothing. That's totally scratching the 548 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: surface of what's going on in these societies. Yeah, I 549 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: think that people also don't spend enough time, or we don't. 550 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 1: It's not thought of very often how much North Korea 551 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: really tried In many ways, Yes, they're a huge very 552 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: you know, there's people make the case that actually a 553 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 1: racist Japanese imperial mindset was borrowed by essentially an ultra nationalist, 554 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: ultra racial identity as part of North Korean ideology, but 555 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: also in terms of the machinery of North Korea and 556 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: how the Communist Party or whatever operates there is borrowed 557 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: from the Soviets. I mean very you know, even the 558 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: fashion choices in a lot of ways. You can say 559 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: they're borrowed from China too, But guess what the Chinese 560 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: communists bared them from the Soviets. Now borrow it implanted, 561 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: you know, it was just directly important. In fact, a 562 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: friend of mine, Peter, when he was looking at my 563 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: photos of North Korea, he was just blown away. He goes, 564 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: this looks like where I grew up, but there's Asian 565 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: people walking around like he couldn't wrap his head around 566 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: it looked identical to him. So this is one of 567 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: the reasons I went to North Korea. It's like, all right, 568 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: this is my only chance to see what it was 569 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: like from my family, you know, seventy or eighty years ago. 570 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: And let me assure everyone, it's it's no picnic, to 571 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: put it mildly, although we did have a picnic. Yeah, Well, 572 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: how does a society fall into this stuff? I mean, 573 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: because that's always the you know, we look at the 574 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: understanding the scope of the problem and understanding how awful 575 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: it was, and we're far away from that. And I 576 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: mean I'm always amazed to who I read about. You know, 577 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: what is it the Conquest, the Robert Conquest book where 578 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: he talks about the Great purge, right, and how academics initially, 579 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: you know, in the West, we're saying that, oh, it 580 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: wasn't that bad, and it is actually even worse than 581 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: anybody had had anticipated. But the entirety of Western world 582 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: bacademia was essentially trying to cover up or or certainly 583 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: vastly diminish what happened there. You know, we don't learn 584 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: these things enough. But also what is the what is 585 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: the tipping point? Right? Because people are sitting here I 586 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: was just saying before, I mean, COVID. COVID was the 587 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: closest thing I've ever felt like in this country too, 588 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: we may actually be living in a totalitarian state at 589 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: some point. I didn't think it was underway, right, I 590 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: mean sitting at home ordering, you know, watching Netflix, getting 591 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: uber eats. But the mentality that people had was scary. 592 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: I mean people that are people that are masking up 593 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: their three year old and are willing to scream at 594 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: people if they get within you know, ten feet of 595 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: them because they're so scared of them. Like there was 596 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: something dramatically wrong with tens of millions of people in 597 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: this country. I don't think there was something dramatically wrong. 598 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: I think there remains something dramatically wrong that was activated. 599 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: I don't think those people's psychology changed as a consequence 600 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: of COVID going away. I think COVID gave an excuse 601 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: for people who have neurosis or anxiety or other some 602 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: kind of things that are suboptimal mental conditions to have 603 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 1: a rationalization that's external and an opportunity to act out 604 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: their aggression and hysteria towards others. And to your point 605 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: about the intellectual Theodore Dreiser, who's probably the greatest naturalist 606 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: writer of all time, Like he was discussing what was 607 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: going the Soviet Union and he just basically concluded, what 608 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: good would freeing those prisoners do? So this was something 609 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: and we see this still today with many people who 610 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: are pro government to such an extent that they have 611 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: this guinea pit of society. It's like, all right, let's 612 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: try this experiment over there. If it doesn't work out, 613 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: at least we'll have the data. And you know rand 614 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: I rand who opens up the book with her testifying 615 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: in front of Congress. She had this great quote. She 616 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: was on Donahue in nineteen seventy nine and he goes, 617 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: why are you so harsh in these people? Like why 618 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: can't you just say that you disagree? And she goes, 619 00:31:54,400 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: because they don't hesitate to sacrifice whole nations, like they don't. 620 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: I think this is something Americans like don't really get 621 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: the depth of evil. They don't care if literally millions 622 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: of people die or are tortured or starved, because they 623 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: have this idea of how society should run and there's 624 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: nothing that's going to stop them from feeling important and 625 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: having their worldview imposed infinitely innocent people and by definition, 626 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: in their mindset. If you are opposed to their machinations, 627 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: you are no longer innocent, and therefore whatever happens to you, 628 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: it's your fault. You see that reality, You see flashes 629 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: of it with a lot of the climate change stuff. 630 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: Climate change is a religious belief now, I mean, they 631 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: play all these games. You don't believe in climate change, 632 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: You say, well, climate's been changing forever, of course, the 633 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: climate changing. Climate change is a religious belief. And but 634 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: you see it though, because if you start to say, hey, 635 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: you realize if we've radically decarbonized that the there's still 636 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: about a billion people right give or take that are 637 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: in pretty dire poverty globally. It used to be a 638 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: lot more good news is that, you know, global poverty 639 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: is in the last fifty to the last seventy five 640 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: years down by leaps and bounds, but there's still about 641 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: a billion people. If you do this stuff and you 642 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: were to actually enforce these rules about CO two, there 643 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: would be a lot of people without enough food to eat. 644 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: A lot of people would not only die of starvation, 645 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: but just a whole lot more people die of the 646 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: malnutrition and the other components of you know, being able 647 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: to live in a prosperous society. Even if you don't 648 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: die necessarily from lack of food, if you don't have 649 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: enough food, your health is dramatically impacted, etc. Michael, they don't. 650 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: They don't blink when you though. There's like, yeah, but 651 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we're trying to save CO two emissions. Man, Like, 652 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: we're trying to save the world here. And I actually 653 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: think those people are I think they're scary. I think 654 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: they don't realize they're frightening, but they're terrifying in a way. Well, 655 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: because there's the mind there. There was this I forget 656 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: which African country, but when the lockdowns were happening, there 657 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: was one country. They're like, if we lockdown, we die. 658 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: We don't have fridges, we don't have stores of food. 659 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: We're living hand to mouth. We need to go farm 660 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: and get today's food. And basically it was like, well, 661 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: let the meat cake, so you know what you're speaking of. Again, 662 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,800 Speaker 1: I think it's so much more malevolent than people realize. 663 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: And again, the reason why Americans especially don't realize how 664 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 1: malevolent it is is that there's an entire information superstructure 665 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: designed in place to teach us. Since kindergarten that people 666 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: are basically good, and that when people in power do 667 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: bad things, maybe there's like some bad, corrupt CEO or 668 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 1: some mayor who's on the take, and Aaron Brockovich is 669 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: going to come in and put him in his place. 670 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: But for the most part, everyone sure makes mistakes, but 671 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: no one is inherently evil. And if you think that 672 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 1: they are, you're a deranged conspiracy theorist. And when you 673 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: have this as your basis for evaluating politics and people 674 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: in power and governments and so on and so forth, 675 00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to realize how little those in places 676 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: like this value human life. And if the choice is 677 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: between their position and thousands of people suffering, you know, horrors, 678 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,359 Speaker 1: it's it's almost a joke to them. It's like, well, 679 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: what's the catch, you know what I mean? Like, they don't. 680 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: They don't. If anything, they feel powerful that they can 681 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,439 Speaker 1: wave their hand and have so many people kiss the ring. Well, 682 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: this is I mean again. Another another area that I 683 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 1: think illustrates this really well is the the very obvious 684 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: positioning of really well off to very wealthy white liberals 685 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: on things like police And I know, I know you're 686 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: not a big police guy, but one yeah, on issues 687 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: of criminal justice. I mean, you know, if we if 688 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: we do have a population that's not supposed to be 689 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: policing itself, which is what we do. Even though we 690 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: do have some you know, people caring um the notion 691 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:58,239 Speaker 1: that you would condemn people living in high violence, um, 692 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: you know, ninety percent loss minority neighborhoods to leaving to 693 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: living with even more violence, so that you know, you 694 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 1: can go to Nancy Pelosi fundraiser and then hang out 695 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: with a bunch of like producers for Netflix shows and 696 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,919 Speaker 1: have your shard neyglasses and feel good about yourself. They 697 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 1: do not care. Even when I try to explain this 698 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: to libs who are very you know, who think that 699 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: they're very attuned to things. When I tell them that 700 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 1: your BLM marches and you're you're giving money these organizations 701 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: and all this stuff makes you feel good, there will 702 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: be more people who are dead because of what that 703 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 1: position is. They do not care. It does not it 704 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: doesn't affect them one look, the whole Democrat party. It 705 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: doesn't affect them until it comes time for elections. Then 706 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: all of a sudden they pretend that they never said 707 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: these things. I'm gonna say something about the police that 708 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: I'm sure you're gonna agree with. My problem with the 709 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 1: police is things like Kenosha, where not only are they 710 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: refusing to do their jobs, which is in and of 711 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: itself a problem when you know massive unrest is happening 712 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,439 Speaker 1: and police things are being torn down, it's that they 713 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: were punishing people who were trying to do their jobs 714 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: for them. Kyle written House when he turned himself in, 715 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: was pepper sprayed by the cops, and then they tried 716 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,359 Speaker 1: to they put him a show trial. If they had 717 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,879 Speaker 1: their druthers, he'd be in jail for life, and even 718 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: if he got off. There's no one who's listeners who 719 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: can tell me that being arrested and having the death 720 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,320 Speaker 1: sense over your head isn't a traumatic experience for literally anybody. 721 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 1: So that's my issue with the police that I'm sure 722 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,840 Speaker 1: you're going to agree with. That's the problem. No, no, again, 723 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: I don't disagree that either. I actually want to take 724 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: a moment here for capitalism, Mike. If I can the 725 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: My Pillow two point zero, which is amazing, I've got 726 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: them here at home. Pat injust will fill of the 727 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: original my Pillow, but now brand new exclusive fabric made 728 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 1: with temperature regulating thread. The stuff is great. I love it, 729 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,319 Speaker 1: Carrie loves it. We're sleeping rom My Pillow two point 730 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,439 Speaker 1: zeros every night. The softest, smoothest, coolest pillow you'll ever own. 731 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: The My Pillow two point zero comes at a great 732 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 1: deal right now. Buy one, get one free for a 733 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 1: limited time when you use promo code buck. That's promo 734 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: code buck. My Pillow two point o. Like I said, 735 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: temperature regulating thread, one hundred percent made here in the USA. 736 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 1: My pillow comes with a ten you're warranty in a 737 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,720 Speaker 1: sixty day money back guarantee. So go to my pillow 738 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: dot com click on the radio listeners square because there's 739 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: buy one, get one free off from the My Pillow 740 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 1: two point h enter promo code buck. Let's promo code 741 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: b U c K for the p And you know 742 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: what happens when you get the My Pillow. You get 743 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 1: a free copy of Michael Lindell's book called From Crackhead 744 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: to Ceo. And it's a lenticular cover and it changes 745 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: from his crackhead face to his like professional, smiling ceo face. 746 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:25,839 Speaker 1: It's really cool. I have a copy of it here. Yeah, 747 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 1: oh yeah, amazing. Mike is Mike is an incredible, an 748 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 1: incredible American success story. I mean, when you think about 749 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,959 Speaker 1: I think, you know, you think about a crack addiction, which, 750 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: short of opioiddiction, is probably one of the very hardest 751 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:44,439 Speaker 1: I think to be. That's because it's so good. They're 752 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 1: not using crack because they don't like it. I mean, 753 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: look the opioid receptors in the brain. Anybody, there's apparently 754 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,439 Speaker 1: nothing and this is why it's so dangerous, right, there's 755 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 1: nothing that feels. And Mike has been way too. I'm 756 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 1: talking about Mike Malice. By the way, for anybody, Mike 757 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,240 Speaker 1: Malice has been way too. I'll behave this whole interview. 758 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: By the way he's been. He's had his thinking cap 759 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: on talking. He hasn't said anything yet to just intentionally 760 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 1: try to get me in trouble, which is one of 761 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 1: his favorite games. Because then I go because if I 762 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,279 Speaker 1: don't say that, he says something and I go oh, 763 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: I keep going, and then I get my people who 764 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,239 Speaker 1: are like, wow, how could you let him say that? 765 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, Malice, Fuck, if you started smoking crack, your 766 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:27,920 Speaker 1: dad could become president. Well everything about that, hm, I 767 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:29,840 Speaker 1: did not think about that until now. That's such an 768 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 1: interesting point. Also, a Hunter Biden, by the way, you'd think, 769 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: like kind of a spoiled connected kid, crack is not 770 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:42,760 Speaker 1: usually the option, you know. Yeah, it's such a low 771 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 1: class gutter drug and the guy has money and he's trashy, 772 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: but not in the crack of trashy way. You would 773 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: think he'd be a junkie, maybe a cokehead. It's it's 774 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:55,760 Speaker 1: it's I don't know what's going on in that household, 775 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,320 Speaker 1: but it's very rare, rare that these children of privilege 776 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 1: are become crackheads. Do you, um, Hunter Biden, do you 777 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: think he's gonna get you know, that's what we're talking 778 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: about here. Do you think he's gonna get prosecuted? No? 779 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: I don't think there's ever consequences for a Democratic Party people. 780 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: It's all the consequence almost really one direction. And I 781 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: have an on air bet over this. I was like, 782 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, he already always be one steak 783 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 1: dinner and he has doubled down because he said last 784 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 1: year Hunter Biden's gonna get indicted. I said, Clay, that's crazy, 785 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 1: and we bet a steak on airs. This is all 786 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: very public. Everyone knows I won. Now he wants to 787 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 1: do a double and I'm like, how many of you? 788 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,359 Speaker 1: How many steaks? I mean, fortunately, Clay's got plenty of money, 789 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:36,839 Speaker 1: but I was like, how many stakes of yours? Am 790 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,360 Speaker 1: I going to take? The one who got put away? 791 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,800 Speaker 1: Two of them, Rob Lagoievich, Rob Lgoievitch and Kwamie Kilpatrick. 792 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 1: I think Kilpatrick was the last name. Roth got went 793 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 1: to jail and Trump commuted our pardon both of them. 794 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 1: So not only is he are do the Democrats never 795 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 1: go to jail. When the Democrats do go to jail, 796 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,400 Speaker 1: the Republicans let them out. You know, you just reminded 797 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: me actually, um, since I wanted, since I want to 798 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,359 Speaker 1: just getting angry people angry at me and get in trouble. Here, 799 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 1: what happens in the Republican election, What happens in the primary? 800 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: What happens in the general? Twenty twenty four? Given where 801 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,319 Speaker 1: things are right now, what do you see happening? Oh? 802 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:18,359 Speaker 1: I think it's going to be. I'm shocked at to 803 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 1: what extent Trump is going full bore against the Santis 804 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: this early. I think he only knows how to do offense, 805 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 1: which is not a bad thing. I'm very much for 806 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: doing offense. I think he is in a lot of 807 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 1: trouble because it is now there's an excuse for me 808 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: if I'm Facebook, if I'm CNN Fox to be like 809 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,919 Speaker 1: the guy fomented insurrection, I can't give him airtime. So 810 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,800 Speaker 1: this is the first time, I think in recent history 811 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,799 Speaker 1: where there is some kind of corporate explanation for not 812 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 1: taking a candidate's money. And that is something that's a 813 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,360 Speaker 1: real big handicap. He used Twitter to get elected president. 814 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: For him to leave that money on the table to me, 815 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,880 Speaker 1: I'm not his advisor, obviously seems crazy. Um. And I'm 816 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:08,239 Speaker 1: also I think that I think people underestimate that the 817 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,640 Speaker 1: biggest issue Trump is facing, in my opinion in twenty 818 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 1: twenty four is the Republican Party establishment because and here's 819 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,399 Speaker 1: the other thing. If he became president, Mitch McConnell would 820 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,440 Speaker 1: team up with the Democrats in two seconds to get 821 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,960 Speaker 1: him removed from office, and they'd have those sixty seven 822 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:31,399 Speaker 1: votes quite easily. In my opinion. Wow, interesting, because ah man, 823 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,719 Speaker 1: I'm ever even honestly, never mind twenty sixteen, twenty twenty 824 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,759 Speaker 1: two makes it feel like any prediction can be it's 825 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 1: just a fool. Seeing that Mitch McConnell cares far more 826 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: about his relationship with Chuck Schumer and Joe Biden than 827 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:49,480 Speaker 1: he does about the people of Kentucky. Yes, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, 828 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,880 Speaker 1: that's that's that's very true. So you think, but you 829 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 1: think Trump probably wins a primary against the Santis, No, 830 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,839 Speaker 1: I think. I think they're going to do whatever they 831 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,440 Speaker 1: can to screw him out of the situation, including, if necessary, 832 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 1: excluding him from the debates. It's not going to be 833 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 1: like twenty sixteen. And I also think they've been successful 834 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,319 Speaker 1: in making him radioactive enough that it's gonna be very 835 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: hard for him to hire quality people because think about it, 836 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,279 Speaker 1: If I've got a good resume, right, why am I 837 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,280 Speaker 1: ruining my life for the sake of this guy who 838 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,480 Speaker 1: wants the campaign's over? If I quit, He's going to 839 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,240 Speaker 1: go on True Central and talk about what an idiot 840 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,239 Speaker 1: I am. So it's gonna be very hard for him 841 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,719 Speaker 1: to get and staffing. I think even his biggest supporters 842 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:35,000 Speaker 1: admit was a huge issue for him throughout his White House. 843 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,920 Speaker 1: He's the one hiring Fauci and John Bolton and Jared 844 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,719 Speaker 1: Kushner and every other you know rents previous. None of 845 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 1: these are particularly maga type people to put up mildly. 846 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 1: So I think this is going to be a major 847 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 1: issue him going forward. What's the so you finished the 848 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,759 Speaker 1: book back to the white Pill here, and it's this 849 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,759 Speaker 1: way we can bring our discussion to close this time 850 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,120 Speaker 1: until you invite me on the Michael Mallas Show, which 851 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,320 Speaker 1: has not happened. I don't think it's happened since COVID. 852 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna call you out right now. I don't 853 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,840 Speaker 1: think I've been on well. I try to have likable guests. Wow, 854 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,360 Speaker 1: see that's what he does. I'm just gonna tweet that 855 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:14,800 Speaker 1: clip out sood be like people would actually see it. Yeah, 856 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,400 Speaker 1: I'll retweet it. So the white field you say at 857 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,120 Speaker 1: the end, is effectively that while um it is not 858 00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,360 Speaker 1: guaranteed effactly that we have to lose to tyranny, we 859 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,799 Speaker 1: can fight, right, we can keep fighting. So what does 860 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,719 Speaker 1: that look like for us here? There's a lot of 861 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,800 Speaker 1: people in the West and in America who thinks America's 862 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,520 Speaker 1: a rap, that it's doomed, so on and so forth. 863 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 1: I can't. One of my biggest points is how do 864 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,719 Speaker 1: you look at Mitch McConnell and Kamala Harris and Joe 865 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,959 Speaker 1: Biden and John Fetterman and say to yourself, I can't 866 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 1: beat these people. They're too important and smart and powerful. 867 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 1: When you put in those terms, you realize what an 868 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,480 Speaker 1: absurdity it is. And something that you and I completely 869 00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,840 Speaker 1: in step agreement are is that if there's any glimmer 870 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:06,400 Speaker 1: of hope for a better future for ourselves and our families, 871 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,239 Speaker 1: we have to do whatever we can to fight for 872 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,799 Speaker 1: that future, even if you know we lose. At least 873 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,400 Speaker 1: when you meet your maker, you could be like I 874 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,600 Speaker 1: did the best I could with what I had. And 875 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,200 Speaker 1: there are so many forces, especially in the Republican Party, 876 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,120 Speaker 1: who want you to settle, who want you to compromise, 877 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:29,440 Speaker 1: who are like guys, grow up, be rational, be realistic. 878 00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 1: None of this is going anywhere. You have to work 879 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,040 Speaker 1: within the system, and this is just always how it's been. 880 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,279 Speaker 1: Those people are the most dangerous ones because they're the 881 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:39,920 Speaker 1: ones trying to get you to get down on your 882 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:44,480 Speaker 1: knees voluntarily instead of being forced to the white pail 883 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,040 Speaker 1: is the book The Tale of Good and Evil, Michael 884 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,279 Speaker 1: Malice tells a good tale. Good to be with you, sir, 885 00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,759 Speaker 1: Thanks for hanging always a pleasure. Buck