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Speaker 1: From Marhart where Innovation, Money and Power Collie in Silicon

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Speaker 1: Vallet NBN. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and

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Speaker 1: Ed Love Love.

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Speaker 2: I'm Caroline Heide Bloomberg's world headquarters in New York and

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Speaker 2: I'm Ed Lovelow in San Francisco.

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Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg Technology coming up.

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Speaker 2: Open AI and Microsoft's partnership facing potential antitrust scrutiny in

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Speaker 2: the UK and the US will break down the CMA

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Speaker 2: and the FTC's concern on the competition and.

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Speaker 3: EU negotiators continue to debate rules for AI. Will discuss

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Speaker 3: the sticking points as regulators balancing the risks of artificial

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Speaker 3: intelligence and its potential benefits.

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Speaker 2: Plus, Harpoon Ventures raises one hundred and twenty five million

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Speaker 2: dollars for its forth fund to invest in ELI stage startups.

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Speaker 2: Will sit down with the founder Lars and Jensen from

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Speaker 2: today's PC Spotlight A first, let's checking on these markets

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Speaker 2: and completely flat on the Nasdaq. Look, we try to

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Speaker 2: digest the macro picture that is resilience in the US economy,

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Speaker 2: a strong jobs market, a confidence building in the consumer

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Speaker 2: and we're currently just what one point to the downside

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Speaker 2: on the Nasdaq after we've of course, we saw that

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Speaker 2: injection of buying yesterday. We do see big moves in

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Speaker 2: the bomb market. Though thirteen basis, let's call fourteen basis

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Speaker 2: points to the upside on the two years. People think

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Speaker 2: that perhaps we've got a little bit too exuberant about

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Speaker 2: thinking we'll have some sort of rate cuts as soon

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Speaker 2: as March, those probabilities dialing back in the market. We're

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Speaker 2: seeing Brent crew popping up about two point three percent

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Speaker 2: after indeed oil has been under pressure, but notably some

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Speaker 2: views that the US is going to have to build

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Speaker 2: up at stockpiles, just managing to push it up a

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Speaker 2: little bit higher. Let's move on and have a look

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Speaker 2: at what's happening in the world a crypto, of course,

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Speaker 2: because the dollar shows resilience. Today we see although over

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Speaker 2: the course of the five pass trading days, what a

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Speaker 2: tear bitcoin has been on. We're up more than ten percent.

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Speaker 2: Forty three eight hundred is where we currently traded. But

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Speaker 2: what about those micro details today.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so a lot of newsflow heading into the end

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Speaker 3: of the year. One story we reported this morning Tesla

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Speaker 3: another executive has left the Dojo project, this time Bill Chang,

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Speaker 3: who is the principal engineer for Ai on the project.

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Speaker 3: You remember twenty four hours ago Mark German and I

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Speaker 3: reported that Ginesh Vin Kateramanan, who was the lead for Dojo,

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Speaker 3: had left.

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Speaker 4: We're now reporting on another departure.

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Speaker 3: Stock a little softer three tens to one percent, but

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Speaker 3: kind of in line with the market, not really drawing

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Speaker 3: a causal link. The big technology story right now is

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Speaker 3: Microsoft and open Ai. In the last hour, Bloomberg of reported,

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Speaker 3: citing a source, that the FTC has opened a preliminary

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Speaker 3: look from an antitrust perspective in Microsoft's investment on open Ai,

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Speaker 3: following the UKCMA, which has done a similar early or

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Speaker 3: prelim look, an invitation for the thoughts of the public

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Speaker 3: on what they feel about it, but it could lead

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Speaker 3: to a full blown probe. This is important. Did we

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Speaker 3: see it coming. Let's bring in Bloomberg, Thomas Seal out

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Speaker 3: of London. Thomas, they's start with the UKCMA. What are

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Speaker 3: the details of what we know?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, as you say, Edward, it's early stages, but I

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Speaker 5: think we did see it coming.

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Speaker 4: We saw some early signs.

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Speaker 5: It's hard to keep up with the CMA probes, even

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Speaker 5: on Microsoft's front. You know, it's only less than two

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Speaker 5: months since they closed the activision probe, but in recent

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Speaker 5: months they've been looking at AI foundation models. They've also

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Speaker 5: been looking at the cloud market, and in today's statement

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Speaker 5: on open Ai, they do explicitly mention the relationship with

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Speaker 5: Microsoft Azure and open Ai. So, yeah, really interesting and

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Speaker 5: interesting to see other regulators making similar any moves.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of fascinating ultimately, when we're looking across at

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Speaker 2: what also the USFTC is examining into the nature of

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Speaker 2: the investment that Microsoft.

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Speaker 6: Made in open Ai.

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Speaker 2: We know they put in what ultimately is about thirteen

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Speaker 2: billion dollars in terms of overall valuation that they've been

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Speaker 2: contributing to open Ai. But what the CMA is looking

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Speaker 2: at is whether, particularly through the governance situation, the unraveling,

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Speaker 2: the firing then rehiring of Sam Altman, that de facto

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Speaker 2: Microsoft has more control than well, they're less than fifty

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Speaker 2: percent ownership, they have inequity. What is it that the

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Speaker 2: CMA is trying to prove here? Hope and how can

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Speaker 2: consumers and competition competition be hurt?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, the key phrase, and when you look at antitrust,

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Speaker 5: there's a lot of dry or arcane phrases. The key

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Speaker 5: phrase with the CMA is substantial lessening of competition or

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Speaker 5: relevant merger situation. Now clearly this isn't a merger per se,

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Speaker 5: but it is a substantial investment. We don't know the

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Speaker 5: term sheet. I'm sure they would like to take a

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Speaker 5: look at it. In fact, on stage at the Bloomberg

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Speaker 5: Technology Conference last month, no back in October, I asked

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Speaker 5: the senior director at the CMA that very question whether

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Speaker 5: he'd like to see the term sheets, and you know,

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Speaker 5: you could tell you could tell that he would, and

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Speaker 5: he implied that they wanted to look at these vertical relationships,

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Speaker 5: as he says, between big tech companies and foundation models,

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Speaker 5: not just Microsoft OpenAI, but also substantial investments in anthropic

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Speaker 5: Obviously Google's full blown takeover several years ago of deep Mind,

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Speaker 5: and that.

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Speaker 2: Is precisely the deal that Brad Smith, president of Microsoft,

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Speaker 2: referenced in his post when responding to all of this,

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Speaker 2: he said, look, this is very different from Google's outright

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Speaker 2: acquisition of deep Mind in the UK, and they reference

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Speaker 2: that the only thing that has changed is that Microsoft

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Speaker 2: will now have non voting observer on the Open Ai board.

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Speaker 2: Thomas Seal great reporting and analysis on what's happening in

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Speaker 2: terms of.

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Speaker 6: The regulatory focus.

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Speaker 2: I mean has mentioned earlier in the USCFGC is examining

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Speaker 2: the nature of Microsoft's investment in the open AI as

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Speaker 2: well whether it may violate antitrust laws. It's all according

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Speaker 2: to a source and the inquiries of preliminary agency hasn't

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Speaker 2: opened a formal investigation, and the source says Microsoft didn't

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Speaker 2: report the transaction to the agency because look, the investment

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Speaker 2: in open AI doesn't amount control of the company under

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Speaker 2: US law. All of this, though, just shows the frenzy

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Speaker 2: with which many are regulators are trying to wrap their

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Speaker 2: head around the technological advancements that we see in AI

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Speaker 2: and how we see some guardrails for it. Let's just

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Speaker 2: go to the EU, where negotiators are still working to

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Speaker 2: hammer out rules on AI, hitting a snag when it

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Speaker 2: comes to face scanning technology in particular most Julian Deutsch

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Speaker 2: has had well a pretty intense week over there in Brussels,

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Speaker 2: where just people have been falling asleep at their desks.

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Speaker 6: It sounds like, in terms of trying to get.

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Speaker 2: A deal over the line, the stumbling block for you

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Speaker 2: at the moment, what do we know.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, So today Mark's we're about nine hours into the

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Speaker 7: second marathon round of trying to get a deal on

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Speaker 7: the Artificial Intelligence Act. Now this is after an nearly

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Speaker 7: twenty four hour round ended on Thursday afternoon without a deal.

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Speaker 7: So they reconvene this morning. I even kind of started

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Speaker 7: off with a bit of a hitch. Lawmakers were too

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Speaker 7: busy debating amongst themselves to actually enter the negotiating room.

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Speaker 6: Now we're seeing lots of Connor.

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Speaker 7: Proposals going back and forth between lawmakers and use dowing

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Speaker 7: some number of states.

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Speaker 6: But everyone's bucking up for another long night ahead.

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Speaker 3: And as we put on the screen right now, what's

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Speaker 3: its state? It would be the world's first comprehensive AI

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Speaker 3: law if we get some progress, Bloom. Most of the

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Speaker 3: dust's carry said, been busy, and we'll continue to be

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Speaker 3: busy tracking that one, thank you. The US labor market

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Speaker 3: continues to defy slow down forecast is evident in today's

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Speaker 3: payrolls report. However, this week we saw Spotify announced job

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Speaker 3: cuts that will impact seventeen percent of its workforce. There

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Speaker 3: are others Twilio, for example, So what's going on? Joining

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Speaker 3: us now to get a read on the labor market

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Speaker 3: is LinkedIn senior economist Corey Kintango, and Corey, great to

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Speaker 3: have you on the program. Let's just get right to

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Speaker 3: the technology sector. Do you have any sort of micro

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Speaker 3: focus on what is happening there with hiring firing into

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Speaker 3: context of what was a really robust jobs report.

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Speaker 8: So what we're seeing now on LinkedIn and the technology

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Speaker 8: sector are signs of stabilization. So hiring overall is down

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Speaker 8: about three percent since July, which is also a positive

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Speaker 8: sign for stabilization, but hiring in tech is actually up

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Speaker 8: three percent. So it's been about a year and a

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Speaker 8: half of cool down in tech and we are finally

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Speaker 8: starting to see some positive signs of stabilization in the

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Speaker 8: hiring market for tech.

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Speaker 2: What about well, the overall inflationary pressure wage inflation, that

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Speaker 2: was something that we saw in the bigger macro data

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Speaker 2: we're looking at at the moment, we're seeing while I

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Speaker 2: increased a zero point four percent for the average hourly

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Speaker 2: earnings month for month, we're seeing prices of people in

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Speaker 2: talent go up.

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Speaker 8: So in this week's jobs report, we did see an

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Speaker 8: acceleration in nominal wage growth, and that can kind of

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Speaker 8: fuel concerns about inflation, because one of the keys that

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Speaker 8: the FED thinks to controlling inflation is bringing down the

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Speaker 8: job market, bringing down nominal wage growth, so that wages

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Speaker 8: aren't feeding so much into price pressures. But that's this

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Speaker 8: month's job support is actually just kind of a reversal

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Speaker 8: of the slowdown that we saw last month. Nominal wages

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Speaker 8: are still running above what the FED would like, but

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Speaker 8: some of that that we're seeing is actually just coming

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Speaker 8: from the composition of workers. We saw a big drop

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Speaker 8: off in retail employees in this month's jobs report, so

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Speaker 8: those low wages are dropping off, which is kind of

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Speaker 8: inflating that number as well.

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Speaker 3: The low wages are dropping off, what are the higher

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Speaker 3: wages doing. One of my Caroline's favorite pastimes is to

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Speaker 3: go on the internet and look at all the postings

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Speaker 3: for AI related jobs and then despair at how well

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Speaker 3: paid those potential postings are.

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Speaker 4: But is he jealous?

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Speaker 3: Not the way jealous, but is AI having a serious

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Speaker 3: impact in the way that the news headlines would have

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Speaker 3: you believe?

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Speaker 8: Well, I'm going to have to get on and start

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Speaker 8: looking at those job postings myself.

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Speaker 4: That's the kiss.

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Speaker 8: So right now we're only seeing nascent impact from AI.

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Speaker 8: On the job market, only about four percent of employers

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Speaker 8: plan to make changes to their headcount. Is a result

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Speaker 8: of the innovations we've seen this year in AI. Conversations

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Speaker 8: are certainly up. We're all talking about it about seventy

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Speaker 8: ear a seventy percent higher this year than they were

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Speaker 8: last year. We're also saying that people are looking at

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Speaker 8: job postings to say AI, as you said, about seventeen

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Speaker 8: percent higher. They're getting about seventeen percent higher views compared

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Speaker 8: to jobs that don't see anything about AI. Now, a

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Speaker 8: lot of these jobs aren't AI jobs, they're just jobs

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Speaker 8: that mentioned generator of AI are mentioned AI in the

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Speaker 8: job hosting, in part because we know that this is

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Speaker 8: an exciting area and no one wants to be left behind.

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Speaker 2: It's great getting your perspective on really the nuance that's

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Speaker 2: happening within the technology sector, as well as more broadly,

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Speaker 2: the ramifications for what was a pretty sturdy set of

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Speaker 2: numbers from macro Data Today LinkedIn senior economist crow contango.

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Speaker 6: We thank you for your time.

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Speaker 2: Meanwhile, let's get the read across from economists to market implication.

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Speaker 6: We're so pleased to have in the building.

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Speaker 2: Leafetengla's Investment CIO as a tengler who really has such

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Speaker 2: a great viewpoint on when it comes to valuations in

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Speaker 2: this space, the technology space in particular. You've sort of

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Speaker 2: seen this economy before, you say, key, looking at the nineties,

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Speaker 2: We've been here, We've done that. Therefore, from the nineth

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Speaker 2: this resilience. Do you still buy tech? Yes, I think

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Speaker 2: you do.

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Speaker 9: I mean, if you look Caroline and thank you so

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Speaker 9: much for having me in studio.

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Speaker 6: It's great to be here.

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Speaker 9: I think when you look back at the nineties, you

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Speaker 9: learn that we can coexist. That is, stock equity investors

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Speaker 9: with higher interest rates the tenure averaged five to eight

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Speaker 9: percent during the decade, higher levels of inflation we were

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Speaker 9: above three percent for the entire decade, and a tight

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Speaker 9: labor market with productivity growth, and a number of other

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Speaker 9: things that we pay attention to, like the vix it

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Speaker 9: was low during the nineties. These are things that have

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Speaker 9: been before, and yet we've still been able to generate

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Speaker 9: excess returns. And where were the best returns in the nineties.

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Speaker 9: They they were in technology. I think we're at the

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Speaker 9: beginning of a new supercycle. So I think there's a

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Speaker 9: lot of reasons on weakness to buy these names.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we haven't actually seen that much weakness in Magnificent

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Speaker 2: seven yet. For example, maybe a bit of a dip

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Speaker 2: on some of the chip makers, but ultimately all you

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Speaker 2: still saying let's go for the Microsoft's then videos, Oh,

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Speaker 2: do you.

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Speaker 6: Broaden that viewpoint? We're broadening it.

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Speaker 9: So if you look back at the valuations, I mean,

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Speaker 9: let's not forget in the nineties it was the four horsemen.

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Speaker 9: I mean, at least now we have seven, right, and

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Speaker 9: Microsoft then was trading at fifty one times peak earnings.

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Speaker 9: It's only around thirty times, not peak earnings. So yes,

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Speaker 9: you want to own that name. I'm less enamored as

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Speaker 9: we talked about last time. I think I shocked ed

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Speaker 9: with Meta. We own a little bit of Google, but

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Speaker 9: we like Adobe, we like Service Now the poor man's

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Speaker 9: Nvidia broadcom which reported great returns yesterday, great results, and

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Speaker 9: Race a dividend fourteen percent. So those are some of

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Speaker 9: the places we broadened out to Oracle, which is a

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Speaker 9: generative AI computing play, but when we were buying it,

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Speaker 9: it was just kind of a cheap old economy technology

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Speaker 9: stock out.

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Speaker 3: Nancy ed is not that easily shocked, but one thing

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Speaker 3: that did catch my eye this year. I spent a

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Speaker 3: day with AA and they had this forecast that the

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Speaker 3: market for AI accelerators AI accelerators only will be four

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Speaker 3: hundred billion dollars in twenty twenty seven. That's up from

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Speaker 3: their forecast that they only just gave in August of

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Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty billion dollars. Last year, the entire

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Speaker 3: semiconductor market, every chip you can think of, was five

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Speaker 3: hundred billion dollars, which makes this forecast of multi multi

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Speaker 3: year ongoing expansion from AI even more.

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Speaker 4: Amazing.

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Speaker 3: I suppose do you see the investors following that trajectory

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Speaker 3: from now through twenty twenty seven.

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Speaker 6: I think eventually yes.

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Speaker 9: I mean what you continue to see is that the

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Speaker 9: bears don't get to be in charge very often, so

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Speaker 9: they're kind of loath to leave the stage. You know,

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Speaker 9: we heard that the tech trade was over in October

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Speaker 9: in the fall, but in particular October of twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 9: we were in buying. At the end of the summer,

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Speaker 9: the stock scot you know, pretty well trounced and including

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Speaker 9: the Magnificent seven. We wrote a piece on October thirty

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Speaker 9: first said you ought to get in here and buy

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Speaker 9: some of this stuff, and we were doing that, So

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Speaker 9: I think what you want to do. I mean, this

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Speaker 9: won't work forever ed, I mean, that's for sure, but

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Speaker 9: these super cycles can run five to ten years. And

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Speaker 9: we're in early days and you have identified the total

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Speaker 9: addressable market, which is critical and it it extends beyond

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Speaker 9: chips into software as well.

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Speaker 3: That is the conversation I'm having every day. At the moment,

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Speaker 3: everyone's obsessed with the GPUs, What about all the other stuff?

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Speaker 3: Producer John Hyland saying in our chat, if in Nvidia's

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Speaker 3: the champagne, then broad comms the pbr bit based on

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Speaker 3: your fisis, but what about the Ethernet infrastructure that's needed

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Speaker 3: the memory chips. Do you think that that's kind of

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Speaker 3: being discounted right now?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I think you know, in Nvidia is sucking all

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Speaker 9: the air out of the room, and now you've got

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Speaker 9: AMD and they're kind of adding some value, you know,

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Speaker 9: adding some narrative to this. Broadcom is only partially it's

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Speaker 9: going to be about twenty five percent of revenues, the

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Speaker 9: enterprise cloud computing chip part of it. But they've got

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Speaker 9: VMware which is going to pick up some of the slacks.

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Speaker 9: So we're looking at names like Adobe, which I call

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Speaker 9: the unsung hero of generative AI, and we own it

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Speaker 9: and we're looking for opportunities to add to it. Service

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Speaker 9: now is taking it spend away from some of the

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Speaker 9: other providers directing the traffic in the clouds. So there

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Speaker 9: are a lot of ways to play this, and I think,

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Speaker 9: you know, I don't think you have to chase Nvidia

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Speaker 9: up the ladder.

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Speaker 2: Always so straight talking and coming out showing how you've

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Speaker 2: been putting your money where your mouth is. We really

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Speaker 2: appreciate it and as of love a Tanglar Investments. Great

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Speaker 2: to have a here in New York. Meanwhile, add to you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, coming up, we're going to have a conversation about

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Speaker 3: DOC you sign out with its quarterly report. We're going

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Speaker 3: to recap those results and get the outlook with the

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Speaker 3: CEO coming up next, Alan Tigerson on the program Quick

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Speaker 3: one TSMC four tenths of a percent on the ADRs.

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Speaker 4: It's so weird. What's going on.

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Speaker 3: November data for sales not good. October had been good,

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Speaker 3: down the eleven foot first eleven months of the year,

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Speaker 3: the down four percent year and year. We have no

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Speaker 3: hard gauge on what's going on with this chip industry.

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Speaker 3: If we bottomed out in some areas, we're still sinking

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Speaker 3: in others, but we'll keep tracking it.

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Speaker 4: This is bloonbo technology.

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Speaker 6: Time for talking tech.

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Speaker 2: First up, Indian conglomerate Tata Group is planning to build

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Speaker 2: one of the country's biggest iPhone assembly plants now. The

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Speaker 2: facility will likely have about twenty assembly lines employ fifty

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Speaker 2: thousand workers. According to sources, Tato's plant would bolster Apple's

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Speaker 2: efforts to increase production in India. Meanwhile, ten Cent is

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Speaker 2: betting on its new open world adventure game to help

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Speaker 2: expand its global reach, and the official trailer for Last Sentinel,

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Speaker 2: while it was unveiled during the twenty twenty three Game

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Speaker 2: Awards send in a dystopian future Tokyo. Last Sentinel was

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Speaker 2: developed by ten centts California based Lightspeed at La Studio.

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Speaker 6: No word yet on the game's release date.

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Speaker 2: Plus raad coom we're just talking about it when that's

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Speaker 2: ten Lember Broadcom says it expects the rapid expansion of

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Speaker 2: AI computing to how offset its worst slowdown since twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: CEO Hoc Tan referred to AI as someone a lot

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Speaker 2: of bright Spot for the chip maker, which expects salesforce

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Speaker 2: AI supporting chips to grow more than twenty percent in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. Yesterday was Comm's the first calling reports

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Speaker 2: since it's acquisition of software firm VMware.

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Speaker 3: Ed well for we got yeah another earnings conversation. Doc

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Speaker 3: you sign out with results beating expectations on revue in

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Speaker 3: the third quarter gone, but offering a margin outlook that

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Speaker 3: was seen as cautious by some analysts. I like to

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Speaker 3: say that joining us now is DOCU sign CEO Alan

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Speaker 3: Tiger Sin Docu sign e signature document generation.

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Speaker 4: We all use it. Ye had great results.

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Speaker 3: The stock opened significantly lower, then rebounded, your up four percent,

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Speaker 3: and the analyst is saying, come on, give us a

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Speaker 3: little bit more on your margin outlook. Why were you

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Speaker 3: so conservative?

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Speaker 10: Well, we've I think shown that we can drive great

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Speaker 10: operating efficiency inside the business. I think that was really

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Speaker 10: the highlight of our Q three results, record operating profit.

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Speaker 4: Record free cash flow.

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Speaker 10: But we still have growth ambitions as well, So we're

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Speaker 10: balancing our investment and growth and our new roadmap with

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Speaker 10: continuing to find new operating efficiencies.

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Speaker 3: Most of Openingberg Technology audience with no docu signed from

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Speaker 3: e signature. Someone sends you something, you sign it electronically, done, dusted, simple.

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Speaker 3: But what is the technology story for dock sign he

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Speaker 3: talk it's about growth into what.

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Speaker 10: Yes, so historically we pioneered E signature and that continues

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Speaker 10: to be the majority of our business. But over the

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Speaker 10: last several years we've been investing what we call agreement management,

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Speaker 10: which is essentially helping companies manage agreements from development, editing, negotiating, settling, signing,

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Speaker 10: and then once you have the signed agreements, what are

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Speaker 10: you doing with them? How are you performing against your obligations,

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Speaker 10: how are your vendors performing, and how would you like

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Speaker 10: to renegotiate them when they're up for renewal. That whole

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Speaker 10: suite we call agreement management. We've delivered various pieces of it,

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Speaker 10: and we're really putting the whole thing together now.

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Speaker 2: Morgan Stanley analyst over there, Josh bare talking about decelerating trends,

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Speaker 2: of course, which you try to counteract with this growth

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Speaker 2: story of focus on a broader agreement. What is the

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Speaker 2: macro economy paint for you and your customers at the moment.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, I would say it's still a cautious outlook. Our

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Speaker 10: outlook reflects what we see right now. We don't try

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Speaker 10: to be macro prognosticators. But I would say the B

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Speaker 10: to B software space and enterprise spend in that area

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Speaker 10: is steady. Certainly, to the extent that the macro environment

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Speaker 10: and interest rates improved, then that will be very helpful.

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Speaker 10: But we're not projecting that yet. But I'd say that

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Speaker 10: we're in a stable environment.

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Speaker 4: We're not falling anymore.

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Speaker 2: Your background before, of course, Doc youre side Google. Before Google,

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Speaker 2: you were asset managing. You were also investing in startups

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Speaker 2: at Karlau for example, Alan, What is it that you've

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Speaker 2: managed to do because many would reflect that your manager

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Speaker 2: did contained costs. You already managed to show this expansion

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Speaker 2: while not bringing up the overall cost of doing business.

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Speaker 2: How have you brought over your playbook of seeing others

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Speaker 2: do it before to your business now?

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Speaker 10: Yes, so a guy, I'm an entrepreneur at heart. I

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Speaker 10: spent the early part of my career in startups and

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Speaker 10: then as an active venture investor, and so I still

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Speaker 10: look for entrepreneurial opportunity and growth and that's what excites

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Speaker 10: me and what excited me about the Docus sign opportunity,

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Speaker 10: and so I look for opportunities to invest in new

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Speaker 10: growth areas. At the same time, I've seen scale at Google,

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Speaker 10: and you know, some of the things that struck me

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Speaker 10: as I looked at DocuSign coming in was, for example,

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Speaker 10: we were not we were taking orders through humans for

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Speaker 10: the vast majority of our business. When at Google, if

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Speaker 10: an advertiser spend one hundred dollars or one hundred million

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Speaker 10: dollars a month with us, they placed their orders on

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Speaker 10: the system. So I felt there were some opportunities to

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Speaker 10: improve our self service options, not just for small customers,

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Speaker 10: but for customers of all sizes.

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Speaker 4: We're in the process of doing that.

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Speaker 10: That's doing really well.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I'm going to do it. I'm going to ask it.

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Speaker 3: What is the doc you sign AI story? If there

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Speaker 3: is one.

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Speaker 10: Actually, I think we have a great story. Now, I'm

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Speaker 10: sure all your guests say that. But if you think

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Speaker 10: about if you think about agreements, historically, the way companies

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Speaker 10: are treated agreements is they're essentially dumb flat files. There's

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Speaker 10: no sense of yeah, we may have digitized them, but

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Speaker 10: we still can barely find them. We certainly don't know

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Speaker 10: what's in them. The beauty of AI is. It allows

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Speaker 10: us to extract the essence of the agreement, the data

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Speaker 10: of the agreements, and then you can then measure those

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Speaker 10: agreements versus the actual performance as well as versus other

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Speaker 10: agreements with similar entities. And so we are in the

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Speaker 10: process of building that out. We're actually in active trials

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Speaker 10: with a number of large companies. We've built a sandbox

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Speaker 10: where they can try all this out. So I think

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Speaker 10: the agreement space is particularly well poised, and we as

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Speaker 10: a by far the largest player in the agreement space

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Speaker 10: with trusted relationships with almost a million and a half

439
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 10: companies pay us monthly dues. That puts us in a

440
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 10: great position too to do your begory.

441
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 4: Docu signed CEO Alan think it's in as great catch up.

442
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:03,919
Speaker 4: Thank you.

443
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 3: Welcome back to bloombow Technology ed love though here in

444
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 3: San Francisco.

445
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 2: I'm Caroline hid in New York. Let's get a check

446
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,920
Speaker 2: in on these markets. Last day of training of the week,

447
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 2: and well, we actually see a little bit of cautious buying.

448
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 2: When I'm looking at the NASDAK, we're up just a

449
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 2: tenth of a percent. Of course, we had a lot

450
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,120
Speaker 2: of exuberance around AI will dig into that in a moment,

451
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 2: But the two year yield is showing significant sell off,

452
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 2: actually across the curve. Bond's selling off because look, good

453
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 2: news is bad news in terms of the strength of

454
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 2: the US economy. The jobs data showing growth, resilience, unemployment

455
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,880
Speaker 2: coming down, all of this meaning that maybe the Federal Reserve, oh,

456
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 2: we keep rates a little bit higher for longer than

457
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 2: we'd anticipated. And certainly the confidence coming from the consumer

458
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 2: as well showing that too.

459
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 6: Interesting.

460
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 2: Though Bitcoin once again managed to shrug off the issues

461
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 2: with the bond market, it's still rallying today. Move on,

462
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 2: have a look at some of the individual movers that

463
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 2: we've got on the move. I'm looking at Alphabet just

464
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 2: pulling back on some of those that we saw yesterday.

465
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 2: Remember it did manage to push higher on the back

466
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 2: of its Gemini announcements. Pame Olsen, our opinion writer, really

467
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 2: digging into the detail of that announcement, saying, look, it

468
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,199
Speaker 2: still lags open AI and actually some of those videos

469
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 2: and marketing tools just when all they were cracked up

470
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:15,679
Speaker 2: to be. But still we're off by only about one

471
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 2: and a half percent. Video on the high side up

472
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 2: almost two percent. The exuberance around what's happening with AMD

473
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 2: that's putting back a little bit today. Interesting moves in

474
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 2: the chip sector in general, and TSMC not pointing to

475
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,879
Speaker 2: all that much resilience in certain parts, but in video

476
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 2: gets a little bit of buying on the day. I'm

477
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 2: looking at Paramount quite a bit of buying in this

478
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 2: particular name. Will the studios be bought? Is it on offer?

479
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 2: In general, we're seeing Redbird capital to medicine as well,

480
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,360
Speaker 2: potentially eyeing this particular company. That's what of course Deadline

481
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 2: is currently reporting, but people buying on that room ed a.

482
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 4: Big story this Friday.

483
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 3: A gene editing treatment for sickle cell disease based on

484
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 3: the Crisper technology was approved by US regulators, marking the

485
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 3: first time the technology can be used in patients in

486
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 3: the US. Uses precisely targeted changes in DNA to repair

487
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 3: flaws in patients genomes related to inherited disease, and if approved,

488
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 3: would be the first time this technology can be used

489
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 3: in patients. As we say in America, the treatment is

490
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 3: offered by Vertex Pharmaceuticals and Crisper Therapeutics. There was some

491
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 3: interesting equity or share response when the news broke. You

492
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 3: can see those names now lower in US trading. Jennifer

493
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 3: Dowdner is a biochemist at the University of California, Berkeley

494
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 3: and pioneered the crisper technology, which led to her winning

495
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 3: the twenty twenty Nobel Prize in Chemistry along with her

496
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 3: collaborator Emmanuel Chaventier. Jennifer Dowdner joins US now, I start

497
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 3: by asking you to just give your reaction to the

498
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 3: news we outlined well, and.

499
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 6: I'm just amused.

500
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: It's eleven years from a fundamental discovery in science.

501
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 6: To an approved therapeutic.

502
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: It's just extraordinary speed, and it speaks for the many,

503
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 1: many people that contributed to make that possible.

504
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 3: I posted on X the news, and what I was

505
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 3: surprised by is the number of people who responded saying

506
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,120
Speaker 3: that they had been impacted by sickle cell disease, either

507
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 3: a family member, somebody they know. Could you just explain

508
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 3: the basics of what this treatment would do, how it

509
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 3: would work well.

510
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: Sickle cell disease is a human condition that results from

511
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 1: a single gene in our DNA that is defective, and

512
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 1: in patients that have two copies of that gene, they

513
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 1: have terrible symptoms. Pain crises they go through, it shortens

514
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: their lifespan. It's really a devastating disorder. And what chrispher

515
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 1: offers now is for some patients at least an opportunity

516
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 1: to have a treatment that is effectively a cure.

517
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 4: They don't.

518
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: They get a one and done therapy that removes their

519
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: symptoms for the rest of their life.

520
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: I'm interested in now the application, Jennifer, and ultimately, how

521
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 2: could you think this can be in the hands of

522
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 2: patients and really from an economic perspective and an equality perspective,

523
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 2: in the hands of patients when it's likely to be

524
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 2: pretty expensive.

525
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: Right Well, you bring up a very important point, and

526
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: that's a reason that we're working hard at the Innovative

527
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: Genomics Institute at the University of California to ensure that

528
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: this type of therapy becomes widely available and affordable, because,

529
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: as you point out, it's an expensive treatment right now,

530
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: and it also involves weeks of hospitalization to deliver the therapy.

531
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: So we really weren't want to figure out ways to

532
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: have new technologies intersecting with genomediting that will reduce class

533
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,439
Speaker 1: and make it more available to people worldwide.

534
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 2: And talking of worldwide, the UK, the regulators there had

535
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 2: signed off the use of Chrispher cast nine. How do

536
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 2: you think this will become a global story. How do

537
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: you think that it will evolve to help other diseases

538
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 2: that currently affect in a pass down the generations.

539
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: Well, here's a very exciting thing about chrispher and that

540
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: is but it's a therapeutic that can be programmed for

541
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 1: different diseases. And now that we see the path forward

542
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 1: with sickle cell disease, which is amazing first start, it's

543
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: really the beginning of what I think will be a

544
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: new era of medicine where we have in the future

545
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: viewers for various kinds of genetic disorders and perhaps even

546
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: one day preventive treatments that result from modifying our genes.

547
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 3: The supply chain for these treatments is complicated, Jennifa, We've

548
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 3: covered on the show the idea that you do a

549
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 3: lot of the R and D and prelim manufacturing planning while.

550
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:34,959
Speaker 4: It's pre approval.

551
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 3: Do you have confidence that there will be a sort

552
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 3: of availability of treatments for those that need them based

553
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 3: on the market's ability to make them to provide them.

554
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: Well, I do. I think it won't happen overnight, but

555
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: there's enormous effort going on, both in nonprofits and of

556
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: course in many companies to ensure that there will be

557
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 1: supply chain benefit. It's from this that we'll be able

558
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: to figure out how to get these products made and

559
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: the quantities that are needed. And I think that over time,

560
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 1: and it will take some time, there's going to be

561
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: some streamlining processes that will just advance the therapies and

562
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: make it more and more available to people around the world.

563
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 3: We outlined your twenty twenty Nobel Prize award. The work

564
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 3: that you've done is their work, at least at the

565
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 3: intersection of academia and biotechnology that still needs to be

566
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 3: done in this field. And if so, what are you

567
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 3: doing right now?

568
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: Yes, as I was driving to work this morning, I

569
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: was thinking, you know, this is a wonderful, exciting day,

570
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: but it's also the very beginning and there's a lot

571
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: of work to be done. It's time to roll up

572
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: our sleeves. I think we need to really work hard

573
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: to figure out how to, as we discussed, make these

574
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: therapies more widely available, of course bring down the cost,

575
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: and I think that will be a combination of technical

576
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: developments as well as working with regulators, working with patient

577
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: advocacy groups, and really figuring out how we appropriately partner

578
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: between academics and companies to control the cost in a

579
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: way that will make this benefit available to many.

580
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 2: And you do that, you are that sort of go

581
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 2: between between academia and helping advise companies. And I look

582
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 2: at Crispo, which the company involved here that has about

583
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 2: five billion dollar market capitalization. Vertex as a ninety billion

584
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: dollar market capitalization. Can put in the R and D spend.

585
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: But what about the money allocated to this field of

586
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 2: work at the moment, Jennifer, And where is the money

587
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 2: necessary to come from?

588
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: Well, it comes from various sources. Of course, investors are

589
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: playing a big role in these companies, but we're also

590
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: seeing big input from the governments. So you may know

591
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: the National Institutes of Help in the US has the

592
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: major effort to advance gena editing and the context of

593
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: gene and cell therapy, so that's very important. We have

594
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: other nonprofit organizations that do filmanthropic support of science. The

595
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: Gates Foundation comes to mind, but there are many others

596
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: who are supporting this. So there's a lot of effort

597
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: here and I think many people appreciate the potential of

598
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: genomeliting to impact large numbers of people if we can

599
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: really figure out how to reduce costs and make these

600
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: widely available therapies available to people around the world.

601
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 2: Of course, back in twenty twenty the world was in

602
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 2: a very different place, and the joy and necessary optimism

603
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 2: around leaps and bounds of creativity and technological development in science,

604
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 2: in particular medicine was really important. It feels that twenty

605
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 2: twenty three all the oxygen has been dragged out of the

606
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: room when it comes to AI innovation and generative AI.

607
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 2: To that end, there's a lot of discussion about safety,

608
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: and I know that's a big point for you, Jennifer.

609
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 2: How are you thinking about the application of crisper technologies

610
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 2: and ensuring that this is rolled out in the safest way,

611
00:30:58,320 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 2: manner and manner possible.

612
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: Well, it's a great question. It's very important. This is

613
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: one of our founding principles that are at our institute,

614
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: is ensuring safety and responsibility as chrisper technologies continue to advance.

615
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: I think it's for me one of the questions regarding

616
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: ethics is really about equity, and we've touched on that

617
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: a lot in this conversation. It's very important, but I

618
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: also think we have to continue to think about safety

619
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: and effectiveness of these therapies and to figure out really

620
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: how to work with regulators to ensure that we have

621
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: a process for testing the safety, but also that we

622
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: advance the therapy as quickly as we can to help patients.

623
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: It's a delicate balance.

624
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 3: But Jennifer, I want to return to the idea that

625
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,959
Speaker 3: if sick will Sell is the start, what is the

626
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 3: next step, What is the next breakthrough that could help humankind.

627
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: Well, I'm very excited about a couple of things. I

628
00:31:55,320 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: think that certainly advancing the genomeediting approach into their types

629
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: of tissues will be important, and we're seeing some great

630
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: progress there in terms of especially for liver disease, work

631
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: being done by a company called Intellia that, for disclosure,

632
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: I'm a founder of, although I didn't do any of

633
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: the science they are doing, and they've shown effectiveness in

634
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: treating rare liver diseases using Chrisper genomeediting. And the important

635
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: thing there is they're delivering these molecules directly into patients

636
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: without requiring a bone marrow transplant which is required for

637
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: the sickle cell treatment. So I think that's an exciting advance.

638
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: And then there's also work to in the future provide

639
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: protective medicine for people who have genes that might make

640
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: them susceptible to cardiovascular disease, for example. So that's work

641
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: coming out of a company called VERB.

642
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 6: So I would keep an eye on those.

643
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: I think they're really exciting developments in the field going forward.

644
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 6: And developments that you keep out driving. Jennifer.

645
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 2: We really appreciate you making some time for us today

646
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 2: on this milestone here in the US. Jennifer Downa of

647
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 2: Correspound with the Innovative Genomics Institute, and of course chrisper

648
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: coh inventor.

649
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 6: Thank you.

650
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:04,239
Speaker 1: Great to talk to you.

651
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 6: And we were just talking.

652
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 2: A bit about venture and the backing in medicine. Let's

653
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 2: talk about Harpoon Ventures raising one hundred and twenty five

654
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 2: million dollar fund and back early stage startups. We'll discuss

655
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,959
Speaker 2: where that money is being allocated. That's Jensen's with us.

656
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 2: There's some blue meg technology.

657
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 4: It's time for the VC roundup.

658
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 3: First up Airspace Intelligence and AI startup targeting air travel

659
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 3: has raised thirty four million dollars in a funding round

660
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 3: lead by Andresen Horowitz to more aggressively pursued deals with

661
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 3: the US Department of Defense. The new financing brings a

662
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 3: bit of chunk of change to the equation. Meanwhile Group,

663
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 3: a Sam Outland backed crypto startup, has launched a bitcoin

664
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 3: private credit fund via its investment management Sidiery Meanwhile Advisors.

665
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 3: According to new reports, the fund is targeting a five

666
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 3: percent bitcoin denominated yield by lending bitcoin to borrowers.

667
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 4: Plus.

668
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 3: Harpoon Ventures, whose investors include Andresent Horowitz, veteran Pete Levine,

669
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 3: and former Olympic swimmer Michael Phelts, has raised one hundred

670
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 3: and twenty five million dollars for a new fund to

671
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 3: back early stage enterprise startups serving the public and private sectors.

672
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 2: Caroc's dig into that very story. Let's bring in Helping

673
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 2: Ventures founder Ausin Jensen for more on today's VC spotlight

674
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 2: and the money, the repeat.

675
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 6: Ability to raise money.

676
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 2: What is it that brings LPs back and have you

677
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 2: attracted new LPs for example?

678
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 11: Absolutely, it's a pleasure to be here and really appreciate

679
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 11: the time today. It's really a testament, I think to

680
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 11: what we built over the past.

681
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 4: Number of years.

682
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 11: When we started years ago, I really think that we

683
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 11: were the first to observe the emerging technology in startups.

684
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 11: We're going to have further reaching implications than they previously had,

685
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 11: at least in my lifetime. Maybe more specifically, they were

686
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,879
Speaker 11: going to have national security and geopolitical implications that they

687
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 11: really hadn't until this current era. And we see this

688
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 11: more recently with the announcement by the Five Eyes of

689
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 11: Chinese Espionage. We see this with President Biden's Executive Order

690
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 11: on artificial Intelligence, and we're seeing it within our portfolio.

691
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 11: And so as we think about the LPs that are

692
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 11: re upping to us nowadays, there repeat LPs that have

693
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 11: been with us for the past five years, and we

694
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 11: certainly have brought on some new ones as well. But

695
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 11: it's no secret that LPs are actually struggling in this

696
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 11: environment due to the denominator effect, due to being over

697
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 11: allocated to private investments broadly speaking. But I think what

698
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 11: we built has been a testament to our progress over

699
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 11: the past six years.

700
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 2: And what's been interesting is you raise this fund at

701
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 2: a time where there is a lot of pand ringing

702
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 2: around artificial intelligence, future regulations, EOS being written, you still

703
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 2: try to get it back together with the AI act.

704
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: It's interesting that some of your portfolio companies already are

705
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 2: in the area of safety and AI. How have you

706
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 2: decided to switch companies a week from chaff in this

707
00:35:58,680 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: particular arena.

708
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 11: It's very difficult to do, and I think it's difficult

709
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 11: to do because the space is changing so drastically. So

710
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 11: when we think about what we're investing in, we're investing

711
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 11: in things from a first principle standpoint where we have

712
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 11: generally speaking, domain expert technologists who have a core defensible technology.

713
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 11: There are serial entrepreneurs oftentimes, and we're very customer obsessed.

714
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 11: We think that there's no greater gauge than talking to

715
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 11: the early customers of these technologies to understand the pain points,

716
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 11: to understand the budgets, and align those with our investment decisions.

717
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 3: Really interested in Stratus as an example, right of a

718
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,240
Speaker 3: target company or a portfolio company. There are a section

719
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 3: of the VC community that kind of say, hey, our

720
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 3: portfolio companies have access to a lot of public capital,

721
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 3: whether it's defense or government or municipal. Does that make

722
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 3: for an attractive potential investment for you guys?

723
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 4: It does but I think.

724
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 11: The way we put it it needs to be dual

725
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 11: use in nature, we like to see companies with a

726
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 11: large addressable market in the enterprise and in the case

727
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 11: of a strawas they're selling predominantly to internet service providers

728
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 11: around the world. But our thesis in investing with them

729
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 11: and in subsequoling and helping with them was to do

730
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 11: business with Uncle Sam as well. And we think that's

731
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 11: a large scale, durable market for that company, and I

732
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 11: think really should increase the possible outcome of what that

733
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 11: company can do.

734
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 3: Luson what was the experience of raising the fund? How

735
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 3: long did it take? Was it challenging, was it easy?

736
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 3: Were you being pushed? We you do in the pushing

737
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 3: a little bit of both.

738
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 11: I think that this year, in twenty twenty three, it's

739
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 11: no secret that it was much more difficult than in

740
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 11: twenty twenty one.

741
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 4: In twenty twenty one, investors and.

742
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,879
Speaker 11: Allocators and limited partners were really jumping both feet into

743
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 11: the pool, maybe diving into the pool adventure capital, probably

744
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,479
Speaker 11: led by large scale IPOs, and getting cash back into

745
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 11: their wallets for them to redeploy. The IPO window has

746
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 11: been effectively shut, as we've seen since then, and so

747
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 11: it really puts allocators in a little bit of a

748
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 11: bind in terms of where they allocate that incremental dollar.

749
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 11: And it's also no secret that the opportunity cost of

750
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 11: capital has gone up. Many of the institutional investors out

751
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 11: there have about eight percent target on their overarching endowment

752
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 11: or foundation, and now you can essentially get that not

753
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 11: necessarily risk free, but much more so than allocating to

754
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 11: longer horizon asset classes like venture capital. So it took

755
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 11: a little bit longer, but I think we're fortunate that

756
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 11: we have durable capital partners that have worked with us

757
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 11: for the past six years, and the majority of which

758
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 11: have really stepped up to the plate to continue to

759
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 11: back us.

760
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 2: You mentioned the word pool, and I mean ask a

761
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 2: personal question, because my new people will recognize you for

762
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 2: the fact that you've got not one.

763
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 6: But two Olympic medals.

764
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 2: You're of course still deeply involved in jumping in the

765
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 2: sea every now and then, and I'm interested as to

766
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 2: how that mentality has affected the way in which you

767
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 2: raise money or actually and allocate.

768
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:47,240
Speaker 6: And do business.

769
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 2: Actually does it make because people know who you are

770
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 2: and what you were dedicated to them more willing to

771
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 2: invest in you too.

772
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 11: I think it's a combination of attributes, to be honest,

773
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 11: and I think that really the wraw ingredients that I

774
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 11: used as an adolescent young swimmer going from high school

775
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 11: into professional swimming and going to the Olympics are the

776
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 11: ingredients of waking up early, grinding it out, and investing

777
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 11: in myself for decades, perhaps in order to make an

778
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 11: Olympic appearance. I think investing in venture capital is very

779
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 11: similar in the sense that you can't control necessarily the outputs,

780
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 11: but you can't control the inputs. You can control day

781
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 11: in and day out if you're going to be the

782
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 11: first in the pool and the last out, And ultimately

783
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 11: that's the effort we expect of our team and we

784
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 11: expect of our founders, and that's what we bring to

785
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 11: bear when we work with them.

786
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 2: In still a record holder in four hundred meter freestyle,

787
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 2: not to mention next Navy seal. We thank you so

788
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 2: much helping Ventures founder and general partner Nelson Jensen.

789
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,479
Speaker 6: It's the latest edition of Blue Boy Business Week, and it.

790
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 2: Takes a deep dive into salesforce, particularly an environment that's

791
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 2: actually much harsher than it was pre pandemic, and it's

792
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 2: impacting tech firms across the broad This particular breakdown of

793
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 2: his piece the era of eight hundred dollars dinners and

794
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 2: luxury car bonuses over at Salesforce. That's why again Bloomberg's

795
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 2: Brodie Ford. It's a great cover, it's a great story,

796
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,280
Speaker 2: and you really take a look at one particular individuals

797
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 2: sort of rise within sales role and ultimately how much

798
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 2: he was winning and bringing in what has changed CRM now.

799
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 12: So there was a while where at Salesforce and the

800
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 12: industry at large, you show up, you had a nice smile,

801
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 12: you can make four hundred k. I mean, software was

802
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 12: flying off the shelves. We saw entire industries had to

803
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 12: digitize in the pandemic. And even before that, I mean

804
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 12: there was just really this kind of golden era of

805
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 12: these software companies because there were so many customers.

806
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:36,959
Speaker 4: Everybody needed to digitize.

807
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 12: Obviously, interest rates have gone up, the economic picture is

808
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 12: different and companies are saying, how the hell did we

809
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,720
Speaker 12: was spending so much money on software, which has caused

810
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,399
Speaker 12: companies like salesforces say, okay, we need to actually start

811
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 12: cutting costs. Where the costs with salespeople, so the job

812
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:52,800
Speaker 12: gets a lot harder.

813
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 3: Mm hm, Brady, you got to shout out from Mark Bennioff,

814
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 3: the CEO Salesforce, says, you know, and I know you

815
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 3: write about somebody's company, it can go one way or another.

816
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 3: He seems to agree with the thesis outline in your peace.

817
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 12: I think they know that they need to be seen

818
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 12: as the bad guy for a little bit right now,

819
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 12: because remember they had all these activists investors a year

820
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 12: ago that were saying, you are not raising your profit

821
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 12: margins quickly enough. Essentially, this story shows what it looks

822
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 12: like when you raise your profit margins ten percentage points

823
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 12: in six months, things get harder. Salesforce is aware that

824
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 12: they need to be doing that, and they, I think

825
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,760
Speaker 12: are happy to see it explained.

826
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 2: You go into detail that Bennioff himself is a really

827
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,959
Speaker 2: a natural salesman. What sort of talent are they now

828
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 2: focusing in on? What if it's not a nice smile, Like,

829
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 2: what do they have to bring to the table? And

830
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 2: how is that the read across the rest of the

831
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 2: sales community.

832
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you know they still have salespeople.

833
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 12: It's funny is that they're just kind of hiring more

834
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 12: engineers now, you know, I mean when.

835
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 6: They're looking to Amazon, they're on marketplace, right.

836
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 12: I mean, when they hired thirty thousand people in the pandemic,

837
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 12: majority of those were salespeople, whereas now in the layoffs,

838
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 12: the majority cut or salespeople.

839
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 6: And so they're really just.

840
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 12: Focusing in on what's going to get us to the

841
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 12: next level, and a lot of that is having to

842
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 12: build new products. And we're seeing that across the industry.

843
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 12: I mean, there's a lot of high flying startups. You

844
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 12: can name any of them, Zoom, Twillia, doesn't matter. They

845
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 12: had a similar trajectory and now they're having a similar

846
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 12: bus cycle.

847
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 2: On that happy note, we'll leave it, but it's a

848
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 2: phenomenal story. It's getting a lot of pickup across online

849
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 2: and go pick it off a shelf or how you

850
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,760
Speaker 2: consume of course your business week. Bloombog's body forward really

851
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 2: interesting deep dive into salesforce. While that does it for

852
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 2: this edition of Bloombog Technology ed.

853
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 4: In a relentless year and another relentless week. A lot

854
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 4: to recap.

855
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 3: Check out the pod, the Bloomberg Technology podcasts and Apple Spotify,

856
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 3: iHeart and we post It's Bloomberg and We're on YouTube

857
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 3: from San Francisco and New York City.

858
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 4: Happy Friday. This is Bloomberg Technology.