WEBVTT - Meme Stock Fever Is Spreading Like It’s 2021 With Kohl's Soaring 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:10.560 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Bloomberg Business 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:14.720 Weekdaily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:18.800 ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends shaping 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:23.760 today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance and tech news 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:27.800 as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast with 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:31.760 Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:34.279 Well, it does kind of feel like twenty twenty one, 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:37.240 at least some vibes. With memestocks and Crypto back in 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:40.839 the spotlight. Cole Shares more than doubled amid an influx 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.800 of mentions by retail traders on social media, with the 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:46.160 stock price soaring as much as one hundred and five 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.000 percent when the equity market opened today, and then there's 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:51.480 Open Door Technologies. It jumped as much as one hundred 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:55.360 and twenty percent yesterday. It extended its gravity defying rally 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:58.160 from last week. Investors continue to pile into the stock 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:01.640 that has found a sudden fandom among retail traders and 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:02.880 social media platforms. 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:05.160 I mean, this is when that is certainly on our radar. 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:07.120 One of the reasons Open Door has been moving is 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:09.280 due to Eric Jackson He's the founder of Toronto based 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:12.360 hedge fund AMJ Capitol. He made a series of posts 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:16.280 on X encouraging buying, and Eric joins us from Toronto 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.360 on this Tuesday. Eric, good to have you here with us. 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:22.800 Do you, first of all, take issue with this being 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:24.560 open Door a meme stock? 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:25.399 Yeah? 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:29.240 I think Carol that all the meme stocks from twenty 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:33.240 twenty one were dumb businesses. I couldn't understand it at 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:37.400 the time why retail traders were getting so wrapped up 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:41.760 in AMC, GME, and BlackBerry. I think those were the 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:46.400 big three, Like those are all like walking dead businesses. 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:50.800 So when I got into open Door and then I 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.680 first started tweeting about it last Monday, it's hard to believe. 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.600 It feels like a cent where you ago like two 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.640 forty five. Like I got into it because this is 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.800 a real business and it's got a real platform that 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:06.560 it's built, and it's definitely fallen on hard times. That's 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:08.600 why the stocks down like ninety nine percent or whatever 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:11.160 it is from its all time highs. But I just 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:15.720 think that the market got overly pessimistic about it. And 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:18.520 I've seen this movie before with Carvana, Like that's one 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:21.720 of the one of my like you know, greatest. 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.240 Heads on my wall. I guess you know from the 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:24.760 past is. 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:28.680 That I got into Carvana early, not at three dollars 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:32.280 and fifty cents, but at fifteen dollars, and today it's 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:35.200 like close to four hundred. And I just see so 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:40.760 many similarities between these two businesses, and all, you know, 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:44.000 people just get overly a prisoner of the moment, pessimistic 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:47.200 about these companies, and everyone's negative Nelly, and everyone loves 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:49.800 to dance on the grave and say that these companies are. 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:50.440 Circling the drain. 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:53.600 Nobody would have believed that, you know, at three fifty 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.679 that Carbona was going back to four hundred. Nobody now 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.600 that at you know, it was seventy cents last Monday. 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.480 Now it's whatever it is three bucks today, that this 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:04.680 thing is I think going to eighty two bucks. 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:07.640 Yeah, okay, so let's talk about that. It's two dollars 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:09.919 and eighty cents right now, down about twelve thirteen percent 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.360 as we speak, just on the day today, you have 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:14.040 a price target of eighty two dollars. 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:16.959 That's pretty wild. 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:18.560 Make your case to us on why you see it 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:19.760 moving that high. 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.200 Well, I mean, I'll be even wilder, tim, I think 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:24.600 today it should be trading forty bucks. You know, it's 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:28.480 it's you know, like basically that if you look at 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:30.800 go back and look at Carvana. Okay, use this as 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.839 a comparison to open Door. Both of these companies they're 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:38.040 trying to e commerce SAFFI some niche that hasn't been 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:41.400 e commerce suffied before. For Carvana, it was buying and 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.680 selling use cars. For open doors, buying and selling homes. 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:49.240 It's a huge business obviously in both cases, a national 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.960 business where just having like one or two or three 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:57.240 percent market share nationally, you know, is talking billions and 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:02.800 billions of dollars and power because it's all so fragmented today, uh, 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:05.480 you know, with the dealers in the car industry and 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:09.800 with the agents you know, in the real estate industry. 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.120 And basically you need a lot of debt to run 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:14.280 both of these businesses. 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:16.400 And so the problem that both of these. 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.520 Businesses came you know, came upon is that although they 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.440 were flying high in the COVID you know, pre COVID 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:26.600 and then uh briefly post COVID era, when interest rates 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:29.960 were low, when Powell started raising rates, Uh, suddenly investors 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:33.360 got nervous, and these stocks crashed, and and the assumption 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:36.720 was that it's they're just gonna they're going to go under, 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:38.760 they're going to file for bankruptcy. So their price as 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:42.479 if they're going to go bankrupt. And I don't believe 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:43.320 that's true. 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:44.360 Uh, Carvana. 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:44.680 You know. 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:46.240 In fact, I was on a podcast in June of 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:48.880 twenty twenty two with Josh Brown and Michael Back where 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.200 I call both like I said, both would turn around 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:55.520 Carvanah did and h open Door did it it was 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:57.480 dead wrong, Like it took a lot longer for them 0:04:57.520 --> 0:04:59.560 to get to the point where they're about to turn profitable. 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:01.880 But they are about to turn profitable. 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:07.440 So for open Door, do you expect to inject and 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.360 invest more money into it and then take a profit 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:15.039 or because it sounds like you've done the research, looked 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:18.360 at the business, maybe talk to the company that this 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.080 is more of a long term buy and hold strategy 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:21.359 for you. 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:22.000 Which is it? 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:27.960 Well, I've been fortunate to be early on a bunch 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.760 of companies, like I was like really early on Ali 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.240 Baba even you know back in twenty nine and ten, 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:35.160 when it was still a private company, it was value 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:36.599 to ten billion. I thought it was going to go 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:41.040 up Carvana, you know some other ones. Like what I've 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:45.880 learned Carol is that you know, like it's always hard 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.800 to not avoid the temptation of firing up the terminal 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:54.120 or turning on business TV and getting emotional about the 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.080 macro headlines of the day and get shaken out of 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.480 these positions. And sometimes when you know, these these companies 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.239 are pretty rare, you know that can truly hundred bag 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:07.080 or hundred acts, right, but like, you know, it's so 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:09.320 easy to get shaken out of these positions or like 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:11.320 in the case of Carvana, like I got like I said, 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:13.080 I got into it at fifteen, I would say I 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:14.839 got out of it. You know, the bulk of my 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.159 position in around like probably one thirty one forty one 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:20.719 fifty somewhere in there. And I'm thinking, oh, I'm so smart. 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.080 I mean ten x my money. Pat myself on the 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:26.120 back here, you know, and I know this company really well. 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.359 I still was optimistic about Carvana, and still i'm today. 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.200 But I thought, like, I'm just going to trade it, 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:33.000 trade in and out. 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:35.159 And you know the truth is, you don't make as 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:37.200 much money as is if you do nothing and just 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.440 let it sit there. So I'm not like jumping into 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.440 add more, Carol, but you know, because I want to 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:44.240 see how the things play out. But I you know, 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:47.680 I'm going to try to avoid that temptation and just 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:48.919 sit and do nothing. 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.160 How much eighty can you give us an idea? How 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.240 much you have put into it? And is it all 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:56.000 your money? Is it investor money? 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.560 Well, I run a fund, Carol, it's a it's a 0:06:58.680 --> 0:06:59.599 it's a small fund. 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.839 Frank with you guys, It's like I had a huge 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:06.400 I had a huge billionaire that basically it was like 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:09.880 a cornerstone investor for me in twenty sixteen seventeen when 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:11.800 I started EMJ Capital. And so I like the way 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.400 you think, Eric, you know, you look at companies differently. 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:16.280 You find these like little hidden jewel companies. How about 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:17.960 I give you some money to manage? And it did 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:20.840 and did great, like it was kind of like a 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:24.160 Kathy Wood type arc, like twenty seventeen up to you know, 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:28.200 probably February twenty twenty one was amazing, shot the lights out, 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:30.360 and then twenty one and twenty two I got crushed 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:33.280 and I didn't diversify my. 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:35.000 What do you call it? 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:37.720 Customer base you know, and so like ninety nine point 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:40.760 five percent of the capital and the fund was this 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.000 billionaire and he took it out, and which was this 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:47.160 is right, and you know's so friendly with him. But 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:49.920 I was sort of like left scrambling and trying to 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:52.680 figure out what to do, and so kept the lights on. 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:56.960 Pivoted to think building a team to build AI models, 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.440 you know, but you know have been it's been hit 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:02.520 and miss the last few years. And then it was 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.000 only like probably you know, three months ago that I 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.360 realized like, hey, you know we're doing you know, I 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:08.640 keep finding these companies. 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:11.120 Why don't we just sort of go all in on that. 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.360 Let's let's get the aim Allels totally focused on finding 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.560 these hundred baggers before the fact. So the remaining capital 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:19.800 we have, which a few million we put in, you know, 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.000 obviously we didn't put it all into open Door or anything. 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.320 We have other positions. There's sort of like five key 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:24.880 positions that. 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:30.200 I have right now, iron cipher mining, BTQ technologies, and ethereum. 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:32.880 Those are the kind of the yeah big five. 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.560 Fused on and uh, you know, we'll see where we go. 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:38.959 And you know, all I got is my reputation guys you. 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:40.320 Know right, no, no, no, we get now. 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:42.319 I've got I've got I've got you know, I've got 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.440 people you know whatever calling up or emailing and saying, 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:46.840 you know, this is great. 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:48.719 You know, we want to get behind you, so we'll 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:49.319 see where it goes. 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:51.000 It seems like a lot of folks on social media, 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:52.880 a lot of folks are on social media are getting 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:55.880 behind you. Have you talked to Tamath poly Hapatilla at 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.800 all about this? He is, you know, a had famous 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:00.960 involvement with open Door back when it went public. 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:06.040 I haven't talked with him. I email, but I texted 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:09.120 it or not text, I tweeted him. I tweeted him 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:11.360 when you know, when this thing got started last week, 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:14.160 because obviously I think it would be a tremendous a 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:15.360 redemption arc. 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:19.200 For Chamoth to come back into this stock. 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:22.160 I don't think he has anything to be ashamed of 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:25.520 it being involved with with open Door to begin with, 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:27.920 or any of the co founder like Keith or Boy 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:29.880 is a guy who kind of you know, was wrote 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:31.760 the business plan originally. I think he's like one of 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:34.880 the smartest guys out there. Everybody was associated with this 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.400 company was you know, it was it was a good company. 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:39.240 You know, it's just a ma you know, the Macro 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:41.880 changed and the rates rose and stuff, and so I 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:43.760 don't think I don't think Tremoth has anything to be 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:46.960 ashamed of. But I think it would be amazing if 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:48.800 he came back in on the ride to eighty two, 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:51.280 which would double the all time highs which is previously 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:52.200 thirty nine bucks. 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:54.920 Eric, forgive me for being blunt about this question, but 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:56.440 if you look at your Twitter feed, there's just a 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:58.520 it's like all open door. I mean, I had trouble. 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:01.680 You're spending a lot of time I'm retweeting and interacting 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:03.319 with folks on there, and I understand that's part of 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.600 the game these days, but maybe a critic could see 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.240 that and say, you're really trying to just pump this 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.920 stock up at this point, defend it on its fundamentals, 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:15.400 and convince people that this is not, you know, for 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.240 lack of a better term, pumping it up and then selling. 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:21.319 I don't know what to tell you, guys. 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:25.120 I mean, unfollow me, tim if I'm bugging you, mute 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:25.960 in or block me. 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:28.000 And I'd say that to anybody else. 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:32.440 I think anybody who knows me knows I'm not a 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:34.120 pumper or whatever I have been. 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.520 Obviously, I've been inundated, called a pump and dumper, a grifter. 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:42.240 Jim Kramer said this was a parlay yesterday. I don't 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:43.000 know what that means. 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:46.480 You could explain it to me, you know whatever I mean. 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:49.760 I mean, people are you know, they're not familiar with 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:53.480 the Open Door story. So whatever they want to sit 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:58.040 back behind their anonymous Twitter feeds and cast dis versions. 0:10:58.040 --> 0:10:58.760 I don't care. 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.320 I'm here to make I don't have I got to 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:03.720 feed my family. I got to grow this business. I 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:06.600 got to do well for my investors. And if people 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.520 want to take shots whatever, you know, you know, I 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:12.080 just don't have time for it. I really love the 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.160 community that we've built. I mean, it's it's amazing. This morning, 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.520 I was retweeting all these people from you know, you 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:23.800 name it, Turkey, Korea, Japan and Africa, Nigeria, Brazil, I mean, 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:27.360 everyone around the world, and they're all in on Open Door. 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:29.000 Yeah, you know, I don't know. 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:30.400 That it's going at eighty two. I don't know. I 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:30.680 don't know. 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:32.920 Crystal Ball, I was, you know, I don't know, you know, 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.720 I might be wrong. I was wrong for many many 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:37.800 years about open door. But I don't think I'm wrong 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.560 right now. I think now's the time this thing is 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.040 turning and you can either get in make a lot 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.120 of money or not. And I got people already telling 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.560 me how much money they've made and it's life changing 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:50.160 and all this that's fantastic. 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:52.160 I mean, it doesn't doesn't help me, but it not 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:55.079 be for that. He was a community Eric, you did sea, 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:55.920 we learned together. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:12:00.200 No, I hear you. You said you're hoping to hold 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:02.040 on to it, like that's your plan. But I mean 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:06.760 if all of a sudden the stock took a downturn, 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.000 I mean it's a two dollars eighty percent stock, so 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.240 I'm not quite sure what kind of downturn. But is 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.640 there something that you would quickly change your thoughts or 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:15.839 you're going to ride it even if it rides down 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:16.240 a lot. 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.120 I can't say I'm going to ride it forever, Carol. 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.400 I mean not foreverbody. I mean, if it went down 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:25.839 fifty percent, would you stay with it? 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:29.640 I think it's less about the percentage drop. 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.000 I mean there's obviously going to be volatility, especially in 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:34.200 the early days of these of these kinds of names 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:36.720 and you know, they report rings in a couple of weeks, 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:39.600 so you know, if it's a terrible report, I mean 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.000 the thing would you know, would would have a negative 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:44.760 reaction to the to the downside and then reverse to 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:46.160 the upside if it was good news. 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.080 I think there it is going to be profitable, and I. 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:49.960 Think it's going to be the start of a string 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:51.319 of profitable quarters, which is what. 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:52.760 Needs to happen for this thing to get up to 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:53.200 eighty two. 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.520 But you know, one thing that's different about oupen Doors, 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.199 like there is more diverse. 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:01.240 Opinion about management. 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:05.040 I think with Carvana, Like obviously everybody on Twitter and 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.320 Wall Street hated it, but if you talk to people 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:09.240 that actually knew the business, and I think people really 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.360 admired the CEO, Ernie Garcia and the management team, and 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:16.920 they those guys bought a lot of stock when Carvana 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:20.400 was low, right before it bottomed. Nobody's done that here 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:22.280 at open Door, which is the norm for most of 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.480 these I mean most times these insiders, you know, they 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:25.080 just don't. 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.440 Brian Armstrong from Coinbase, you never bought a share from 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:29.280 the time he went public at four hundred down to 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:33.440 thirty eight back up again. Yeah, sales zone by house 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:34.199 in La. 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.440 So, but there's more controversy about the management here at 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:39.880 Open Door TEMP. Not to cut you off, you know, 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.920 some people think Carrie Wheeler, who's the CEO, is great 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.320 and some people don't. And so if I discovered three 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:48.840 months from now, the gosh, I don't know about her. 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.800 I mean, you know, one thing I might think about 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.199 is like, what's the chance of an activist coming in here? 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:56.400 Which I think is very high, So that might keep 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.960 me in. But if I concluded, like the management's terrible, 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.080 I can't standard anymore, then. 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.800 Obviously I have to exit. I don't think that's going 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:05.360 to be the case. 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:09.200 Eric, Before we let you go, other stocks that you 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:11.960 are buying right now that you're holding right now, what 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:16.240 are people missing when? What are you getting earlier today? 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.360 Tim hot off the presses. I tweeted this out already, 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:19.680 So this. 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:25.120 Is I bought some iron ir e N and Cipher CifR. 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.080 Both of those are bitcoin miners, make a lot of 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.240 money from that, but they're more excitingly there. 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:33.560 They've moved. They're kind of like a Core Scientific and 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:34.480 just you know Core. 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.080 We've bought Core Scientific recently, but it was kind of 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:40.120 a lousy price for core. Scientific Iron and Cipher are 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:44.080 way bigger, have way more kind of energized gigawatts that 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.960 are coming online in the next year that somebody like 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.440 an Oracle or a Meta or you know, Google has 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:51.320 to do a deal with. So I like those, and 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:55.960 I like BTQ Technologies. BTQQF is a ticker. It's still 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.080 an no TC ticker. I bought it a twenty one 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:01.880 cents in December with like five bucks, so it's been 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.080 a thirty bagger for me so far. But I think 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:06.840 it's gonna meet the criteria and be hundred bagger when 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:07.800 it all said and done. 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:10.600 All right, always looking for the diamonds in the rough, 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:13.960 no matter no matter how low the prices are. Hey, Eric, 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:16.840 appreciate you taking so much time with us this afternoon. 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:18.960 It's great to check back in with you. It's been 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:21.240 quite a few months, so we love it that you 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.080 took the time. Eric Jackson is the founder of the 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:25.240 Toronto based hedge fund E MJ. 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:25.880 Capitol. 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.200 I would never block him on Twitter. I still follow 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:30.960 you on Twitter. Yeah, check out his twitter feed too, 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:32.880 because he does share a lot of what he's working 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:33.680 on here as well. 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.480 Yeah, pretty clear I'm pretty transparent and stuff out there. 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.960 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast. Catch 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.720 us live weekday afternoons from two to five eas during 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:47.840 Listen on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.600 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.120 Back to a headline that you mentioned just in the 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.360 last few minutes, Carol SpaceX says warrant investors that Elon 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:59.560 Musk could return to politics. Musk may serve in similar 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.840 roles to his previous position as senior advisor to President 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.760 Donald Trump, and devotes significant time and energy to such roles. 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.480 This according to documents, It's great to have back with us. 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.440 Bloomberg Business Week a senior reporter, Max Chafkin. Max is 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.800 the co host of the Everybody's Business in Elon Inc. Podcast, 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.480 also the author of the Concherrion Peter Tiel in Silicon 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.600 Valley's Pursuit of Power. He's here in studio with us. 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.880 Expect to have you back in this as much as 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:24.480 we love it. 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:26.320 I feel like you knew something here when you told 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:29.040 us that you know, never say never when it comes 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.360 to Elon Musk and staying out of politics. 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:33.640 I mean this is one of these things, where in 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.120 any investors learning this from the risk factor statement of 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:40.400 the prospectus is a little bit behind the curve. It's 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:43.680 been pretty obvious for about a year that Elon Musk's 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:48.280 political activities have a bearing on his businesses, and but this, 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:51.280 of course is an acknowledgment of that. And also, I 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.320 guess tim as you're kind of hinting, maybe a suggestion 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:57.320 that Musk has plans to re enter the four although 0:16:57.320 --> 0:16:59.400 he's he's sort of said as much on Twitter, you know, 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.680 a week ago, and he launched the America Party, all. 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.280 Right, But does this take it to if he's putting 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:10.920 this language in the tender offer for SpaceX, I mean, 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:14.360 does it kind of make it even more formal or official? 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.119 I mean, does it take it to another level? 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:20.000 I mean, we saw these risk factors. I'm less familiar 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:23.040 with them as they apply to private marketing fundraising, but 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:25.960 of course they do show up in public market fundraisings 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:29.960 as well, you know, on quarterly reports, annual reports. I 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:33.320 just had a quick peek at the last Tesla earnings 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.560 release back in April. It had two new risk factors, 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.679 one related to essentially perceptions about the stability of the 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:44.480 management team kind of a wordy way of saying negative 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.520 stories about our CEO and another about tariffs and. 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:48.440 Hosts of other things. 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.080 So, I mean, I think this is more an acknowledgment 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:54.520 of something that is that Musk himself has talked about, 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.679 and this is not I mean, maybe this in some ways, 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:02.560 I guess this is confirmation that people inside of SpaceX 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.520 are aware that Elon Musk has discussed very recently plans 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:11.240 to continue his political journey, and this is a reflection 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:11.480 of that. 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:13.800 But how that journey could look might be a lot 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.640 different than what that journey was over the last year 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.400 or so, given thus all out oh absolutely that he's 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:22.280 had with President Trump. Do you think it would take 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.240 the form of a new political party in supporting candidates 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:30.000 perhaps Democrats and Republicans who maybe want to slash the deficit. 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:31.840 Well, we've talked about this a lot. 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:33.720