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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to stuff. I've never told you a productive I heart.

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Speaker 1: Radio and for no specific reason at all or timing

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Speaker 1: at all, we thought it would be fun to talk

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Speaker 1: about the apocalypse. No, everybody loves, everybody loves end time,

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Speaker 1: no fun for all. And if you've been following along

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Speaker 1: recently with our episodes, and kudos to you, because we

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Speaker 1: know we have a lot of content. So if you're like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I heard that, one will be like wow, good on you.

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Speaker 1: I have been exploring how to survive the world as

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Speaker 1: it starts to implode. I bought a breadmaker, I have

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Speaker 1: plans for gardens and other things, which made me ponder

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Speaker 1: what people think when it comes to women and the apocalypse,

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Speaker 1: because you know, again as we told you previously, many

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Speaker 1: many times, we're always thinking about episodes in this show specifically,

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Speaker 1: So there you go, and perhaps to no one's surprise,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of speculation on women, especially in like

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Speaker 1: a zombie apocalypse, because that's the majority of Like when

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Speaker 1: we were looking for quizes or something fun, it's just

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Speaker 1: zombie apocalypse. And yes that includes several articles based on

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Speaker 1: the last of us any I know, I know, but

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Speaker 1: also a lot of references on how women are the

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Speaker 1: face of the biblical apocalypse as well. So, uh, why

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Speaker 1: don't we talk about some of the facets of this

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Speaker 1: apocalypse and women anyone? Why don't we jump into it?

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Speaker 1: You ready, I'm thinking this is gonna be a little

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Speaker 1: bit shorter. One. Why do I do this? I myself

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Speaker 1: up dedn't I.

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Speaker 2: You're starting the apocalypse? This is like where at the

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Speaker 2: beginning of the pandemic, when everybody was thinking about the

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Speaker 2: one thing they did or said that started ours.

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Speaker 1: Was the predictions. Weren't they? Okay, moving on, We're not

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Speaker 1: gonna harp on that one again. So the apocalypse is

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Speaker 1: a wonderful I say this sarcastically, setting for so much entertainment,

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Speaker 1: whether we are talking about movies, books, or games. It

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Speaker 1: has opened up so many scenarios and possibilities and plot lines.

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Speaker 1: And how many types of apocalypse are there? Well a lot,

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Speaker 1: There's a lot out there. Some of them include like

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Speaker 1: Pandemic level and yeah, we still need to finish our game, Anie.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Pandemic being a board game that is very very fun,

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Speaker 2: very very difficult. It has many difficulties and also different iterations.

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Speaker 2: We were playing it during the Pandemic, we got through

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Speaker 2: two one, well, we got through like the main We

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Speaker 2: got through like the main one that people play, and

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Speaker 2: then we did the like long longer campaign one, and

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Speaker 2: then we had a second longer campaign one and we

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Speaker 2: haven't finished that one, and when we sit down to

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Speaker 2: play that again, we're gonna have to do a refresher.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna have to be like I'm I'm almost thinking

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Speaker 1: we might have to start over all, like.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how much character interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's probably gonna die an character so many I

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Speaker 1: don't mean to be a few of our characters died, like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, y'all. They're fun.

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Speaker 1: It's a thing.

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Speaker 2: It's fun.

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Speaker 1: It is, but it's also like a thirty minute set

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Speaker 1: up to remember how to play it. We love those campaigns, right,

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Speaker 1: So there's the pandemic, and then we have the man

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Speaker 1: created war, nuclear holocaust, Uh, there's alien you know that

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Speaker 1: type of apocalypse, and so much more. But it seems

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Speaker 1: the more recent or I guess favorites are something along

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Speaker 1: the lines of a specific disease or disaster that eventually

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Speaker 1: creates a zombie like environment that's going to come and

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Speaker 1: eat you or infect you. Like one of those iterations, right,

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Speaker 1: And to add some depth todays, here's some explainers of

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Speaker 1: some of the apocalypses. Again, I think they have like

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Speaker 1: the list goes on and on. I looked at one

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Speaker 1: and you know how Google shows you the top whatever.

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Speaker 1: So there was like twelve listed and then the numbers

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Speaker 1: says many more. Yeah, so we're not doing all of them, okay,

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Speaker 1: So but just just to give a kind of a

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Speaker 1: small explainer. So one timely classic is the nuclear war

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Speaker 1: thinking fallout, that game, you know what I mean, where

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Speaker 1: everybody's hiding in bunkers, all these things. It isn't a

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Speaker 1: surprise that after the usage of the nuclear weapons in

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Speaker 1: World War Two that people had legitimate fears of world

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Speaker 1: collapsing attacks and of course the current state of being

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Speaker 1: with power hungry people who've been given unlimited power, or

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Speaker 1: so they claim. So you know, that's one that's in

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Speaker 1: the back of our heads. That's an option. Right. Then

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Speaker 1: we have the pandemic apocalypse again, something that seems like

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Speaker 1: it could occur at any moment. In Ashells dot Com

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Speaker 1: even talks about being the most plausible of all the apocalypses.

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Speaker 1: Here's a quote a pandemic apocalypse is one of the

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Speaker 1: most plausible types of apocalypse, and it's a scenario that

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Speaker 1: we are currently living through with the outbreak of coronavirus.

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Speaker 1: While the current pandemic isn't yet on the scale of

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Speaker 1: some of the fictional examples below, it's still a grim

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Speaker 1: reminder of how quickly a virus can spread and how

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Speaker 1: easily civilization can break down. So, yeah, that's one, and

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Speaker 1: I have like his article was in the midst of this,

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Speaker 1: so it makes a lot of sense. One we didn't

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Speaker 1: mention before is the religious idea of the rapture. Remember

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Speaker 1: the Left Behind series? Did you read any of those

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Speaker 1: any or watch her camera in action?

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Speaker 2: That was a heavy side. I did read left Behind.

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Speaker 2: I know there was a show I didn't watch that

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Speaker 2: I have said before. I had a teacher in eighth

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Speaker 2: grade who just really really didn't like that I wasn't

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Speaker 2: that I was an atheist, and he would always say,

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Speaker 2: it's like you're running off a cliff and I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to stop you. And he was like, You've got to

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Speaker 2: read Left Behind, And I did it. It was fine.

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Speaker 1: I love when people take fictional tales and be like,

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Speaker 1: you need to read this. This is gonna be you.

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Speaker 2: He was really like, this is going to change your

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Speaker 2: whole perspective. And I was like, Okay, let me try.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, just say, I think of the

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Speaker 2: Da Vinci Code.

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Speaker 1: It came around the same time, so you would think

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Speaker 1: like anyway, but anyway, Oh yeah. So here's a brief

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Speaker 1: explanation from that same article at ashtails dot com that

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Speaker 1: says the religious rapture apocalypse is a popular motif in fiction,

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Speaker 1: often used to explore themes of fate, morality, and human nature.

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Speaker 1: In these stories, the world comes to an end, not

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Speaker 1: through natural disaster or nuclear war, but through the intervention

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Speaker 1: of a higher power. This can take the form of

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Speaker 1: God descending angels to whisk away the faithful, or of

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Speaker 1: Jesus returning to judging the living and the dead. Whatever

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Speaker 1: the specifics, the religious rapture apocalypse is a powerful way

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Speaker 1: to explore the idea of an all powerful being who

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Speaker 1: decides the fate of humanity. And we're not going to

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Speaker 1: go too deep into that in itself, but we do

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Speaker 1: want to come back round and talk a little bit,

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Speaker 1: just kind of mention some of the female images used

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Speaker 1: to portray these ends of times within the religious concepts

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Speaker 1: of the apocalypse based on revelation and if you know,

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Speaker 1: you know which you're gonna know at the end of this.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I find this interesting because again, when you

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Speaker 1: have tales of the Rapture, there's always a center character

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Speaker 1: about the anti Christ. Yeah, and if I were to

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Speaker 1: go back and I look at the Left Behind series,

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Speaker 1: it feels like it's train someone weird, no helves president

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Speaker 1: just yeah, why. But what's so funny is my part

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Speaker 1: of my family and that that like Cookie Crew extended

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Speaker 1: family really really thought it was Oprah.

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Speaker 2: The anti Christ.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I'm like, like, a black woman's gonna have that

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Speaker 1: much power? Ever, dang, Like, not because they're not powerful,

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Speaker 1: it's because society wouldn't let them give that kind of authority,

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Speaker 1: but that that was their belief for a while. I

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Speaker 1: love the whole I think Beyonce is actually now part

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Speaker 1: of that category. I do.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I find it really interesting that a lot

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Speaker 2: of times a woman gets really powerful and all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden, heavy quotes around like respectable conservative media is

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Speaker 2: like they must be witches. There's no other way.

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Speaker 1: There's no other way, which again I will say, at

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Speaker 1: least the Left Behind series, whether or not it's because

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Speaker 1: of lack of imagination, or they also felt like, now

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Speaker 1: there's no way that anybody but a white man in

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Speaker 1: power could be just powerful. He does portray the Antichrist

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Speaker 1: as a white man, so you know, they were all

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Speaker 1: on the same page there anyway. And then the last

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Speaker 1: example we want to give is addressing the zombie apocalypse,

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Speaker 1: which pretty much like the other types, are multifaceted and

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Speaker 1: could all be connected, such as maybe a nuclear war

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Speaker 1: creating zombies and diseases and being caused by some ideal

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Speaker 1: of a holy war. You know, you could put all

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Speaker 1: that together. But zombies, much like vampires or witches because

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Speaker 1: we've talked about talked about this before or werewolves, seem

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Speaker 1: to be a part of a cyclical horror fad that

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Speaker 1: becomes trendy at different times, because like Training a Bousan

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Speaker 1: and all of those movies came out, World War Z,

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Speaker 1: Zombie Land, that kind of all came out and chunked together,

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Speaker 1: and they're still popular. So they have outdone the gamut

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Speaker 1: of most other fictional characters. Villains, what would you call them? Villains?

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Speaker 1: Just horrible?

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's the question. We don't need to get into

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Speaker 2: a morality debate vampires right now, I wouldn't call I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't call zombies villains because they typically don't have any

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Speaker 2: brain function, so they're more like a sad outcome of

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Speaker 2: a virus. I don't know, I won't call them villains.

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Speaker 1: Which movie? Which zombie movie? Is it? That they adapt

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Speaker 1: They could suddenly get faster, and they figured out how

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Speaker 1: to do doors, and they kind of figured out like.

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Speaker 2: Is that senses it's twenty eight days later? Maybe that's

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Speaker 2: the one they were It was twenty eight days later,

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Speaker 2: was new and that they were fast?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so watch remember, like they have this conversation the

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Speaker 1: survivors do about like they're adapting. They're adapting to us,

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Speaker 1: like trying to get to us. And I was like, huh,

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Speaker 1: they are becoming more people.

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Speaker 2: Like they're like raptors.

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Speaker 1: Oh. With all of that, zombies are somehow created and

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Speaker 1: become a part of the threat of humanity. But we

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Speaker 1: know by this point that it's often a cautionary tale

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Speaker 1: of the downfall of humanity in itself, as Ryan law Again,

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Speaker 1: who wrote the Ashtales dot Com article, says, although it

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Speaker 1: is usually presented as a horror story, the zombie apocalypse

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Speaker 1: can also be a commentary on society, human nature, and

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Speaker 1: our relationship with technology, and of course, like we looked

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Speaker 1: at jarj rameirow was like the beginning of the zombie

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Speaker 1: movies and having this whole conversation like it was a

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Speaker 1: conversation of race, if I remember, like a lot of

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Speaker 1: things in society, but this is specifically about race in

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Speaker 1: its conversation. And then we had filmmakers like Quentin Tarantino

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Speaker 1: who came in trying to make his own kind of

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Speaker 1: version of horror, and when he did it, it was

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Speaker 1: all just like I have a lot of opinions about him,

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Speaker 1: but all like just gross tesque like type of shocking movie.

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Speaker 1: And I remember there was a quote about just like

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Speaker 1: Romero like getting up and leaving in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the screening because he didn't like it, and Quentin Tarantino

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Speaker 1: took it that as a victory, saying he scared him

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Speaker 1: so badly, when in actuality, he was just disgusted because

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Speaker 1: the whole point of Tarantano's movie was to gross people out,

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Speaker 1: to shock people. I think there was a scene where

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Speaker 1: he's trying to rape somebody and like his falls off,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of funny, like you're like okay, but

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Speaker 1: that's obviously no real social commentary to that other than

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Speaker 1: he wanted to be gross and like have a that

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Speaker 1: as this conversation. So, like we know, when it comes

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Speaker 1: to things like the zombie movies, and especially as its origins,

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Speaker 1: it's a bigger conversation about this.

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Speaker 2: The wave before the wave we're in now, those zombie

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Speaker 2: movies were largely about consumerism because it was like, I mean,

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Speaker 2: very basically, I could talk about this for a long time,

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Speaker 2: but you know, it was essentially a lot of them

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Speaker 2: took place in malls, and it would be your sort

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Speaker 2: of mindless zombie and that representing consumerism but also kind

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Speaker 2: of being I won't even say romanticized, but like some

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Speaker 2: part of you being like that would be nice if

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Speaker 2: my like life was heavy quotes again, more simple in

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Speaker 2: terms of I just have to survive, I guess.

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Speaker 1: I mean yeah, And as Laws wrote, also, it can

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Speaker 1: be a conversation about our relationship to technology, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's like the newer version of things. So it

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Speaker 1: is it's like, okay, okay, interesting. So in the world

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Speaker 1: of fantasy, these scenarios happen often. But the question that

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Speaker 1: we're having is how do women fare especially in these

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Speaker 1: fantasies and horror situations. And we are going to look

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Speaker 1: at the entertainment factor because there's a lot to be

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Speaker 1: said about what people think may happen and how they

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Speaker 1: see women in these scenarios as well. So I want

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Speaker 1: to go ahead and put this caveat most of this conversation, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: is very sis heteronormative in the ideal that they want,

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Speaker 1: like it's almost rendering it back to gender norms, like

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Speaker 1: classic gender binaries. So they really heavily weighs on that.

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Speaker 1: So that's the bigger conversation, and that's bigger examples that

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Speaker 1: we have. Of course, there's new people who are doing

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Speaker 1: things that are creating and pushing the boundaries, of course,

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Speaker 1: but we can't ignore that that has been a perpetual

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Speaker 1: part of the conversation, and especially when you look at

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Speaker 1: like Apocalyptid film where they use and we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit more use women, whether it's as victims

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Speaker 1: or as the plot line like you know, dead women

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Speaker 1: or rescuing women and all those things. So that does

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Speaker 1: come into play as well. Now, like many things in life,

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Speaker 1: this question how do women fare in the situation is

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Speaker 1: a toss up. It's a toss up, y'all. There are

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Speaker 1: those who see women being portrayed as mere tokens, because

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Speaker 1: you've got to have some type of romantic tension, right,

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Speaker 1: So for one to survive a long time must be

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Speaker 1: somewhat capable, but not too capable. And an example that

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Speaker 1: we were given is The World War Z's a long

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Speaker 1: time since I've seen that. I did remember, like I

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Speaker 1: liked it, but it does point out the fact that

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Speaker 1: his wife, who kind of she's supposed to be a scientist,

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Speaker 1: I believe. Do you remember the movie I've never seen

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Speaker 1: or the book, Oh, you've never seen it. I have

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Speaker 1: question marks because it's definitely a horror movie ish thriller,

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Speaker 1: I guess suspense.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's enough on my horror radar.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, it's got a few jump scares, but like

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Speaker 1: the woman is with their family and he's trying to

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Speaker 1: get to them, but he's needed because he's so important

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Speaker 1: all these things, and like she has this conversation with

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Speaker 1: him and then like she just stays on the boat

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Speaker 1: like that's her tire character. Yeah, bro plays this so

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Speaker 1: that or even walking dead like you as many like

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Speaker 1: good characters are in there, it's like the token. They're

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Speaker 1: still not the actual main characters. They might be a foil.

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Speaker 1: Think about Glenn and Maggie. Like a lot of people

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Speaker 1: hated Maggie at the end of that because they blamed

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Speaker 1: her for her death. And I didn't even see that scene.

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Speaker 1: I was not ready for that song.

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Speaker 2: No, is this spoilers. I don't know what happened.

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Speaker 1: I know it was later on, but that that's been

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Speaker 1: a while, right, well, I don't know anyway things happen.

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Speaker 1: Maggie gets blamed, right, all right, we're gonna go with that.

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Speaker 1: And then you have the women being a product or hostages.

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Speaker 1: I think Mad Max or a Handmake's tell. And yes

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Speaker 1: there is female Lee's to this one and even in

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Speaker 1: the later Mad Max Viriosa and Fury Road. But there

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Speaker 1: also lies the like the abuse of women as a

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Speaker 1: subplot for most of that, even like the old School

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Speaker 1: one with Mel Gibson and Tina Turner. Come on her

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Speaker 1: her costume is iconic, but it's still doesn't say much

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Speaker 1: to women. I will say again, we've had this debate,

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Speaker 1: and I think had I already started on the show

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Speaker 1: when the Fury Road came out.

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Speaker 2: Yes, because I I got in big trouble at my

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Speaker 2: job the day I saw Fury Road and it all

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Speaker 2: worked out. But I remember very specifically the day I saw.

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Speaker 1: Were we the other?

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Speaker 2: No? I was, No, it was before you actually.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I just remember being really upset, not upset,

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Speaker 1: but like disappointed because everybody had painted this all the

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Speaker 1: all the men who hate who hated this movie, talking

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Speaker 1: about how they didn't need her character. She made it

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Speaker 1: worse and in the end was like, but she's the

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Speaker 1: one that gets saved, Like, yes, she has a pretty

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Speaker 1: bad role, but in the end she still needed the

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Speaker 1: main character save her, So why are you mad? This

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Speaker 1: seems typical what's happening. So even with the big publicity

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Speaker 1: to that, it still didn't wow me and like, oh

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Speaker 1: look there's this feminist icon and she don't get me wrong,

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Speaker 1: Charlie stir own on her own as an icon, but

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Speaker 1: in that movie it didn't match the energy that was

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Speaker 1: given to me. But all those things and talking about

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Speaker 1: all of this, writer sable A Radio talks about these

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Speaker 1: types of scenarios in her post titled Sexism in the Apocalypse,

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Speaker 1: and she goes on to talk about how using these

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Speaker 1: types of scenarios are another addition to the harmful idea

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Speaker 1: that the only way women would survive is by being

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Speaker 1: protected by the good men or good guys from the

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Speaker 1: bad men. She writes, that's why I've had enough of

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Speaker 1: How Yet, again, even in what otherwise a well thought

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Speaker 1: out apocalypse story from a writer I respect, this is

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Speaker 1: repeated as if it were the gospel truth. Women in

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Speaker 1: the apocalypse need men to protect them from the gains

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Speaker 1: of rapist men.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and she continues, the roving bands of raping marauders

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Speaker 2: are orcs for writers. You can feel okay about killing

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Speaker 2: them because it's justified. But I think it's perpetuing a dangerous,

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Speaker 2: misogynistic and missandrist stereotype that has repercussions, the idea that

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Speaker 2: feminism is dependent upon civilization, and that if the authority

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Speaker 2: of civilization were to fall, women would become prey and

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Speaker 2: men would descend immediately into acting like gorillas competing for

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Speaker 2: a harem. Even Margaret Atwood, hailed as a powerful feminist voice,

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Speaker 2: has fallen victim to this stereotype.

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Speaker 1: So the stereotypes obviously transcend the horror, but also into

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Speaker 1: the comedic ideals as well. Another example of women not

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Speaker 1: doing much or barely seen is from the apocalyptic comedy

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Speaker 1: of This is the End where most of the people

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Speaker 1: and women specifically all get swallowed up in a sinkhole

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Speaker 1: or the one woman that appears, Emma Watson playing herself,

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Speaker 1: comes through but hurriedly runs away with an axe when

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Speaker 1: she realizes she may be stuck with an entire group

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Speaker 1: of strange men who make comments that are a little

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Speaker 1: too eager. So obviously she runs away, But like, there's

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Speaker 1: definitely a lot of conversation, because that is one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest critiques to these movies, into these shows about

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Speaker 1: apocalyptic scenarios is that once again, women are just property.

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Speaker 2: I think I would say one of the things I

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Speaker 2: noticed when I was compile telling the Survival Horror chapter

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Speaker 2: in our book you can go get wherever you get

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Speaker 2: your books, your books, is that I mean, and we've

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Speaker 2: been doing it in this episode, is that a lot

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Speaker 2: of times it's the one she's the woman. Like there's

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Speaker 2: it's all men, and then there's the woman, and then

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Speaker 2: if there are more women, then yeah, they are usually

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Speaker 2: some type of property or something to be exploited or protected,

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Speaker 2: but they're not like fully realized characters.

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Speaker 1: Right right, Well, with all of those risks and uncertainties.

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Speaker 1: We do have some, as you said, who have done

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Speaker 1: better and treated better, existed better, suggest the ladies from

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Speaker 1: the zombie Land, some trickery and deception could keep you

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Speaker 1: alive a bit longer, you know, according to them. However,

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Speaker 1: another article written by Ray Alexandra, titled how to be

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Speaker 1: a woman in the Apocalypse according to male dominated movie

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Speaker 1: So this is somewhat sarcastic, does give praise to one

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Speaker 1: woman again, that one who plays it smart and safe,

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Speaker 1: and that's Michelle from ten Cloverfield Lane. I have not

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Speaker 1: seen this movie. Have you seen this one? I have

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Speaker 1: seen this one, this one you have. I like that

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Speaker 1: we've seen one of each at this point now, And

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Speaker 1: she writes this. The protagonist of ten Cloverfield Lane, Michelle

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Speaker 1: played by Mary Elizabeth Winstead, offers a damn near perfect

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Speaker 1: guidebook on how to realistically survive the apocalypse. Thank you

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Speaker 1: JJ Abrams. She says, she knows when to be patient

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Speaker 1: and when to fight, her mind is always working overtime,

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Speaker 1: and she's crafty enough to make her own hazmat suit

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Speaker 1: and gas mask. Thanks to these factors, as well as

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Speaker 1: taking the time to heal from a physical injury. Michelle

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Speaker 1: ultimately out with the shady doomsday survivalist who ran her

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Speaker 1: off the road and held her in his bunker. On

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Speaker 1: top of all of that, Michelle shows us that even

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Speaker 1: when you do finally find out that the Earth husband

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Speaker 1: in by humanity destroying aliens, it is best not to

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Speaker 1: freak out, just quietly get into the nearest car and

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Speaker 1: bravely head out to find other survivors. So we do

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Speaker 1: have some I like this, she I like that she

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Speaker 1: wrote that this is our guidebook.

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Speaker 2: You don't know it now that you mentioned it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that it is true because it's like a guy is

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Speaker 2: trying to protect her, but really he was keeping her,

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Speaker 2: holding her captive, and she had to kind of out

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Speaker 2: out smart him and then gets out in the world.

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Speaker 2: Turns out he was right, but hey, she was like, nah,

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Speaker 2: I'm better off. I'm good without you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Oh. Which brings us to those

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Speaker 1: who think women maybe the last to remain According to

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Speaker 1: our entertainment, The Last of Us is talk full of

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Speaker 1: women leadership, the survival of women is not guaranteed, and

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Speaker 1: talks about how it is stacked against women, but the

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Speaker 1: fact that they they're all these that exists. Are they

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Speaker 1: all great? No? I like that, but they're leaders, but

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Speaker 1: their leaders. So we have Marlene, we have Kathleen, we

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Speaker 1: have Maria and Ellie herself of course. And we're not

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Speaker 1: talking about the Last of Us Too yet Annie, not yet.

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Speaker 1: I know you really want.

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Speaker 2: To, Willie.

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Speaker 1: Can't you know what? I'll give you the exception, what

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Speaker 1: would who would you add from the Last of Us too?

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Speaker 2: Abby?

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Speaker 1: Obviously? Is she a leader for her group?

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Speaker 2: Though she's a leader with a her organization. I would

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Speaker 2: say she's like first pick of the team you want? Abby?

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Speaker 2: Also male, but that's a different story. Okay, I won't

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Speaker 2: go into it too much, but yeah, I mean, and

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Speaker 2: I do like there are a lot of women leaders

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Speaker 2: in the Last of Us series. I kind of like

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Speaker 2: because I think the whole point is the Last of Us.

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Speaker 2: We jokingly called our crew when we did Betrayal at

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Speaker 2: the House on the Hill, that campaign, that board game,

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Speaker 2: we called our crew the least of Us because it's like,

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Speaker 2: how did you survive? You probably had to do some

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Speaker 2: things that weren't great.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I know that's why we called

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Speaker 1: ourselves that.

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Speaker 2: You chose it.

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Speaker 1: I assume that was my partner I am not that creative.

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Speaker 2: I thought it was you. But anyway, so I like that,

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Speaker 2: you know, you see the kind of the good and

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Speaker 2: bad of them, and you understand, like that's one of

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Speaker 2: the most painful and wonderful parts of the last of

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Speaker 2: us because you're like, Okay, I get it. Maybe I

431
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 2: don't like it.

432
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the whole point of end of times. Yeah,

433
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 1: content right, like this is the end of humanity? How

434
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: far do we go? How good or how bad is it? Yeah?

435
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 1: And with some of those great examples, there's also the

436
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 1: argument that many of the women leaders are survived are

437
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 1: often white, perpetuating the idea of white saviors. One thesis

438
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: written by Sarah Austen wrote about this, specifically titled white

439
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: Girls in the Apocalypse, Race, Gender, and Sexuality at the

440
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: End of the World, and as the title implies, it

441
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: also takes on the more stereotypical heteronormative standards as well,

442
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: so the verisis heteronormative, gender binding type of ideal so

443
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: Austin wrights to maintain the cultural status quo while focusing

444
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: on a girl power heroin. The post apocalyptic white girl

445
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: savior subgenre has specific markers that center around white women's

446
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: sexuality and reproduction as hallmarks for the survival of humanity

447
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: at large. This combination of traits, intended to make characters

448
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 1: relatable and aspirational for young adult audience, also acts as

449
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: a form of capitalist activism by exploiting white feminism and

450
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: girl power rhetoric to generate viewers, ad revenue, and licensed products.

451
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: These text media maintain the importance of white women's sexuality

452
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 1: and roles as mothers in late stage capitalism, while denying

453
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: the full humanity of queer, trans black, indigenous, and people

454
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 1: of color or bipoc and the other women marked by

455
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: differences from an idealized heterosexual white identity. So it does

456
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: say a lot to that. Now again, we're gonna give

457
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 1: kudos to the last of us who really kind of

458
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: changed some of those ideas by bringing in a queer

459
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: character and all of these things. So we definitely see

460
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 1: a little differences in that type of conversation, but for

461
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: the most part, a chunk of all of these kind

462
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: of like girl power, end of times heroism fighting for

463
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: society movies, it is white sis, heterosexual girls. So in

464
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: her article, Austin gives examples of catnus from Hunger games,

465
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: Buffy from Buffy, the vampires they are, and even Emma

466
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: Swan from Once upon a Time. I was like, ah,

467
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: look at that. I don't think of that as end

468
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: of times, but there is a lot of the times

469
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 1: where they're trying to in the world, oh, or take

470
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: over the world okay, okay, and make it there so

471
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: like they destroyed the fairylands essentially.

472
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 2: Oh oh, and they.

473
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: Come to a different world and then she wants to

474
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: take over that world. Got you so all those things

475
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 1: so so good? Kind of no, And with that she

476
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: points out their transparent attempt to be inclusive by writing,

477
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: I argue that the post apocalyptic white girl's Savior is

478
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: always haunted by race and queerness. These side characters make

479
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: the reader feel feel as if the trope is inclusive

480
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,959
Speaker 1: and allows the subgenre to access bipock and queer identities

481
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: to the service of white supremacy and heteronormativity. Building on

482
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: the cultural narrative of white women as universally welcoming and mothering,

483
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: the girl's Savior must be needed near these forms of differences,

484
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: but cannot embody that since she is chosen for her

485
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: lineage or special qualities, which are inextricably tied to her heterosexual,

486
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: white femininity. Buffy, for example, is both more effective and

487
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: more civilized than the first black slayer, Snaia, which means

488
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: restless apparently, despite the savior's straight, white, unmarked identity, her

489
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: friends and helpers, such as Buffy's lesbian best friend Willow,

490
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: demonstrate her open mindedness and universal appill So her entire

491
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: paper is a fascinating read. It's a pretty long paper,

492
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: and she does clearly show the continued white savior trope

493
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: within these shows or books, and she, like I said,

494
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: gives True Blood as an example of that as well.

495
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: You have that heterosexual white girl, innocent white girl coming

496
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: to a fairy at that coming to say, but all

497
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: her like cronies, her side gigs are from the bipod

498
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: community essentially as well as usually queer community, so like

499
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: it does hang on to like, Yes, it's about her sidekicks,

500
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: but they can't be the embodiment of the savior obviously.

501
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: In it, she also talks about the different tropes such

502
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: as the love triangles and why that's necessary, as well

503
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: as motherhood that is heavily used in order to tie

504
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: the feeling of humanity and emotions into a plot, but

505
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: still has to stay with that within that heteronormative standards.

506
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: You cannot straight from that at all. And of course

507
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: a part of that conversation with things like vampires or

508
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: all those is about having children and not being able

509
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: to be a mother. We know that we've talked about that,

510
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: not siring a child. I think on that, and that's

511
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: part of like you can't do this which motherhood if

512
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: that is something that's important to you, can break a

513
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: relationship for sure, but like it definitely has this level

514
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:55,959
Speaker 1: of like incompletion for those characters. So you know, you

515
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: do it like Twilight and get pregnant with the vampire

516
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: baby over look is coming coming and uh with that,

517
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: I actually we stumbled upon another article and this was

518
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: written by Nicole. It doesn't have her last name, so

519
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: I'm not leaving about her name is Nicole and it's

520
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: for Beyond Black White dot com and the article is

521
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: titled and asks would black women survive a zombie apocalypse?

522
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: So she talks specifically about survival skills and how she

523
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: imagines people may be planning the end of times, and

524
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: she brings on good points about things that can lessen

525
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: the chances for anyone's survival. So she talks about children

526
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: or having a lot of children, and I think about

527
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: the fact that I have a pet, and how there's

528
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: no way I could I could remain alive for long

529
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: if I try to keep Peaches, because if we're being

530
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: hunted down by zombies or just bad people's in general,

531
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: She's a she's gonna bark. She's a barker, and then

532
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: she's a highes front with me, and I'm like, what,

533
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: so she's gonna give me away immediately after the barking,

534
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: And I guess, like again, when we talk about like

535
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: young babies or toddlers, they don't know why they're in

536
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: this emergency situation and cry when they need things like

537
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: that's their communication. That could be a problem.

538
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: This this reminds we have I haven't watched it yet,

539
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 2: but I have in quiet place on.

540
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: The calendar, well like the quiet place too where she

541
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: has the box, I mean the first one. I'm sorry

542
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: with the baby, the first one. Both both already made,

543
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: and so when it when she when it's born, she

544
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: immediately puts it into that box with the oxygen tank,

545
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: which is already running out. I'm like, okay, how do

546
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: you know for sure we're not testing that. That's okay.

547
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: Willing suspension of this belief these is what makes these

548
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: movies amazing. So you know, those things I do think

549
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: about as well. But she never really Nicole never really

550
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: gives any definitive answer outside of the fact that beyond

551
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: black women know how to survive point blank, and they

552
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: know how to push forward. As Nicole writes, I'm a survivor.

553
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: I'm not going to give up destiny child out there.

554
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: If nothing else, Black women are survivors for better or worse.

555
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: We pride ourselves collectively on the ability to make a

556
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: dollar out of fifteen cents. The tenacity would be one

557
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 1: of the key ways black women could survive in the

558
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: face of adversity. We plant our feet and get that

559
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: work done. Additionally, I could count on black women to

560
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: make the can food rations and Squirrel made Post Apocalypse

561
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: to be rather tasty given the apocalyptic circumstances. It is

562
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: a talent to be able to cook just with what

563
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,719
Speaker 1: you have and make it good. There's only a handful

564
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: people that I know that can do that, chefs obviously,

565
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: But like that, I'm known in real life and yeah,

566
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: I'm not one of those people. And however, Nicole does say,

567
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: like many others can't imagine that humanity in itself would

568
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: be so kind or giving and with all of those uncertainties,

569
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: you know, could they could? Who could survive in this scenario?

570
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: Who is going to survive in those scenarios? So she

571
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: gives advice. So if you want to go back and

572
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: look at that article that I just mentioned, you should

573
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: go back because she's like, you know, if you're into witchcraft,

574
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 1: get those herbs, ladies. And I'm like, yeah, that's actually

575
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 1: really smart. Get those herbs. Uh, with all of that,

576
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: because we're kind of going to come back into I

577
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: guess the real scenario. Could this actually be? Could we

578
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: survive that this was a real scenario? So do you

579
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,399
Speaker 1: have any characters Annie that you would regard as good

580
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: examples are surviving or just iconic women of the apocalypse?

581
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I I hesitate because like good examples. Again,

582
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: I think a lot of times apocalypse media is about

583
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 2: like how you hold onto your humanity when you're in

584
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 2: this situation. So there are examples of people doing that,

585
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 2: but it's still like you've faced so many losses. I

586
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 2: would say Dina, who's from the Last of Us two.

587
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 2: I won't give any further spoilers, but just yeah, Dina

588
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 2: Clara Redfield from Resident Evil two, she's a good one.

589
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: Maybe Heather from Silent Hell three, which, by the way,

590
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 2: I recently found out. I don't know how I didn't

591
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 2: know this, but there's a Silent Hill two movie that's

592
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 2: based on Silent Hill three, which is one of many

593
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 2: funny things about that movie. And I watched it, and

594
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 2: I have the time of my life, to be honest,

595
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 2: Carrie and Moss is in it. Carrie Moss is probably like,

596
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 2: please never bring this up again. But speaking of Carrie Moss,

597
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 2: Trinity from The Matrix, Yeah, yeah, she's a good one.

598
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 2: I do you think Maria from the Last of Us

599
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 2: and Marlene. I don't know. It's just so tragic. All

600
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 2: of it's so tragic. I'm like struggling to think of one.

601
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 1: That's a spoiler alert. Yeah, those are some good ones. Again,

602
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: I haven't seen all of fall Out, obviously. The Fallout

603
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: is just beginning with the main character, like she seems

604
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: to be again, she's also very wholesome, so and she's

605
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 1: also very white, so I wonder if this is the

606
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: same context as we were talking about I'm trying to

607
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: think because yeah, like in the all the horror movies,

608
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: the train to Busan was a pregnant woman with the

609
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 1: little girl that survived, but it was based on her

610
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 1: father and the father of the or the husband of

611
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: the pregnant woman like that really helped.

612
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean this is really interesting too in

613
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 2: terms of the fiction piece we do Once a Month

614
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 2: that I wrote when I was right out of college.

615
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're I'm pretty sure less of us people stole

616
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: it from you, which they've never.

617
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 2: Read this, so somehow they absolutely didn't, but I like

618
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 2: to blame them as if they did. But it is

619
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 2: interesting in terms of that is it's instead of like

620
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 2: being a Joel and Ellie, it's a woman and her son.

621
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. Just interesting the flip.

622
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean it does have a lot of

623
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 2: these things in it. It's it's hard to.

624
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 1: Escape it is. So with that, let's ask the real question,

625
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: how will women do in an apocalypse? For real? In

626
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: real life? Annie? So in a zombie type of scenario,

627
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: do you think we could survive?

628
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 2: No? I don't think I could. I've thought about this,

629
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 2: We've talked about it on the show. I've already I'm

630
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 2: in Atlanta, I would be huge trouble. I mean, if

631
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 2: the seed you see, something happens there. I'm already infected,

632
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 2: but like to get out of the city, and then

633
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: you're dealing with like dwindling supplies because it you know,

634
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 2: in a city, you have more, but there's more danger

635
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 2: of I've thought about it a lot. I don't think

636
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,919
Speaker 2: I would make it. I'm not gonna I think i'd

637
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 2: make it maybe a little bit longer than some people,

638
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 2: but not very long, very long. How about you.

639
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: I don't think I would make it either, but I

640
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: think I would make it just doing the whole like,

641
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: don't come out, you know what, stick around because we're

642
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: going to do a very informative and obviously very realistic quiz.

643
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: Definitely to see if we could survive at the end

644
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: of this. But according to Megan A. Armstrong, she says maybe,

645
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: but it definitely isn't a great set for women. In

646
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 1: her article for International Feminist Journal of Politics titled why

647
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: is the zombie Apocalypse so terrible for women? Gender, militarism

648
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 1: and ontological insecurity at the End of the World, she

649
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 1: explores the topic with the hell from the book and

650
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: film World War z, which I have now referenced twice

651
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: because it's in several of the articles. She takes a

652
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: deep look at the basis of the heavy militarization of

653
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 1: the situation, how they take on the very masculine violent

654
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: role or route as a solution to the problem.

655
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 2: She writes, this is a common theme in apocalypse narratives,

656
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 2: the chaos of the immediate aftermath of the disasters leading

657
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 2: to a Hobbesian state of nature. What we imagine to

658
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,040
Speaker 2: be a robust, stable civilization can be taken down and

659
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 2: fast by a single destabilizing element. Apocalyptic visions of the

660
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: future can help to articulate present anxieties and offer hypothetical responses.

661
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 2: They create a space for an imaginary future in which

662
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 2: characters map out a means of survival. Such visions allow

663
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 2: audiences to imagine themselves in the narrative and therefore produce

664
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 2: certain kinds of normative, legitimate responses. However, in WWZ old

665
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 2: wor Z, the aggressive militarized response to the zombie threat,

666
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 2: led by a particularly masculinized hero figure, departs in some

667
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 2: ways from other examples of the genre.

668
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 1: Right, so we're jumping into the fact that again it's

669
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: kind of like the one versus the total, which I

670
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 1: don't think is too different, but during the beginning of

671
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: World War ZE it kind of was different, especially if

672
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: it was like an international So I don't think it

673
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: happens in the US. It happens somewhere else first, which

674
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: a lot of things do take place, but sometimes it

675
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 1: just happens in the US versus And the article talks

676
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 1: about the gender roles specifically. Once the zombies has strike, however,

677
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: this and they're talking about all the stuff that had

678
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: happened previously is undone, and Karen remains with the children,

679
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: the wife as all you're talking about as Jerry travels

680
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: the role in search of the key to eliminating the

681
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: zombie threat. This suggests that WWZ likes so much of

682
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: the zombie genre functions to stabilize gender roles in a

683
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: time when traditional gender roles have been increasingly destabilized. This

684
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,879
Speaker 1: return is interestingly informed by the more progressive gendered order

685
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,919
Speaker 1: depicted at the outset of the film. Jerry is neither

686
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: aggressive nor violent, but first and foremost a family man

687
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: who will give up his career to protect his family

688
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:44,439
Speaker 1: and fight for their survival when necessary. Through Jerry, ontological

689
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: security is restored through particular gendered and militarized responses as

690
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: he assumes his role as protector of the family and

691
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: directs the international military action that secures civilization itself. The

692
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: zombie allows for the restoration of gendered order in a

693
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: time of threatening the stabilization, but in order that still

694
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: nods to its more contemporary evolutions. And she continues explaining

695
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: why this is all important, saying there are some for

696
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: whom the normal way of life, the status quo upheld

697
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: in the extermination of the zombie was never conducive to survival,

698
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: but their stories are not often told in zombie narratives.

699
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: WWZ doesn't reveal that certain kinds of families may survive

700
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: the zombie threat while others will not. To occupy normative

701
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,919
Speaker 1: gender role is not enough to guarantee survival. And here

702
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 1: we see how the knowledge system of zombie reveals itself

703
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: to be not only gendered, but racialized. So she goes

704
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: into a deep dive on bat It's a very fascinating paper,

705
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 1: like she really goes deep into this conversation, almost like

706
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: this is a societal tell on warning us that feminism

707
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 1: is ruining our lives and it's going to kill us

708
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: because of zombies.

709
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 2: I got I can't help it. I got a couple

710
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 2: more points about the last and I was like, oh,

711
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 2: one is that and this is so tricky. And I

712
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 2: actually do have an episode that's coming out about this

713
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 2: that I wrote forever ago, but because it's a pain,

714
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 2: I've just been putting it off. But I feel like

715
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 2: the message that was intended at the end of the

716
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 2: last a lot of people took not they took it

717
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 2: very differently, and so yes, they were like angry, Oh,

718
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 2: she's a girl, she can't survive, like she's a young

719
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 2: this is wrong, when I don't think that's what the

720
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 2: actual material was saying. But people were taking that and

721
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 2: you using it as like, oh, this is why I

722
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 2: this can't be right. I hate this. And I've even

723
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 2: heard that in terms of the violence that Ellie does,

724
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 2: the main character, one of the main characters, like, I

725
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 2: don't I feel like this is irredeemable. I'm like, you

726
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 2: seem to be cool and enjolded it. I find this

727
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 2: really interesting. Yeah, but like those those divides, we're gonna

728
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 2: we're gonna see how that plays out. But also I've

729
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 2: been in the first time I went to dragon Con,

730
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 2: which is a huge convention here in Atlanta that's kind

731
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 2: of like COMCN, very nerdy and all this stuff. I

732
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 2: made a mistake and I went to how to Survive

733
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:48,879
Speaker 2: a Zombie bock clips panel, and all of them were

734
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 2: like conservative dudes that were saying, you know, liberals are

735
00:44:54,920 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 2: all gonna die, and then we'll go back to the

736
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 2: right way.

737
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: Right way God intended obviously.

738
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 2: Right anyway anyway. Armstrong concludes, when we read artifacts such

739
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 2: as WWZ with attention to what they reproduce and normalize

740
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 2: through the zombie as knowledge system, we can understand negotiations

741
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 2: of ontological insecurity as they are enmeshed with gender and race,

742
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 2: and remain attuned to what responses they render intelligible and possible.

743
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 2: Here we can see the ways in which anxieties over

744
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 2: how Western civilization survives the overwhelming threat of the zombie

745
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 2: are materialized and resolved. The zombie reveals what and who

746
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 2: is considered necessary for civilization to survive, as well as

747
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:47,359
Speaker 2: who will be abandoned. The sense of contemporary feminism as

748
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 2: a threat to the male self comes through, and the

749
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 2: negotiation of a kind of masculinity that is responsive to

750
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 2: changes in gender norms and expectations, but still positions masculinity

751
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 2: as a savior. Yes, also in every survival horror game pregnancy,

752
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's disturbingly not that far off, it's dangerous.

753
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 1: And then also that conversation of like who has access

754
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 1: things and trying to get those things just just in cases.

755
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: There was of course one response, and I think it

756
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: was a really interesting idea, is that writer Sammy Eastwood

757
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: watching some of these horses, and we've talked about this

758
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: in video gaming, like these impromptu crop tops that make

759
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: no sense in trying to defend your land property yourself.

760
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:41,280
Speaker 1: She says that women won't survive the apocalypse thanks to our clothes.

761
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: Like that's the beginning of her article, and she talks

762
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: about those conversations of like why are we dressed like this,

763
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: Like we couldn't wear ballet slippers, Like no wonder we're

764
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 1: falling over ourselves and dying when the killer is chasing

765
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: us because of those hills do not work when you're

766
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:56,720
Speaker 1: running in dart.

767
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 2: You lose them. You use them as a stabbing device.

768
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 1: But yeah, but also I can't walk in them, so

769
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: like breaking my ankle.

770
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 2: By that point, it's too close. You don't want to

771
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 2: be that close to them, right exactly.

772
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 1: I did the parody video just recently about how the

773
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: woman gets a complex because the serial killer keeps passing

774
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: her by and ignores her to kill everybody else, and she's.

775
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 2: Like, why not?

776
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: Why not me? Anyway, But yeah, that could be a problem.

777
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,760
Speaker 1: I could get us killed, so some say, but again,

778
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: all this may be upon Minia said that the way

779
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: of survival is actually the gendered idea of femininity. It

780
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: might be a savior to this. History even shows that

781
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: more women survived some of the most difficult times. From

782
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: a twenty eighteen Complex article, journalist Victoria L. Johnson writes,

783
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: scientists over at the University of Southern Denmark analyze times

784
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 1: of feast or famine in the past three hundred years,

785
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: including the Swedish famine of seventeen seventy two to seventeen

786
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,760
Speaker 1: seventy three, life expectancy of enslaved people Interrinidad in eighteen thirteen,

787
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: the eighteen forty five Irish potato famine, the measles epidemic

788
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: in Iceland in eighteen forty two, in eighteen eighty two,

789
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 1: as well as in nineteen thirty three Ukraine famine, and

790
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: there was always one truth that remained true. On average,

791
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: women lived longer than men, and this is regardless of

792
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 1: age as well. So she is actually referring to a

793
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: study titled women live longer than men even during severe

794
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: famine and epidemics. In that research paper, they write, women

795
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: are the life expectancy champions. They can expect to live

796
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,839
Speaker 1: longer than men almost anywhere in the world today. This

797
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:44,280
Speaker 1: pervasive inequality has intrigued researchers for decades. The cumulative corpus

798
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,919
Speaker 1: of research supports the conclusion that the gap has biological underpinnings,

799
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: modulated by social and environmental conditions, and was more is

800
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: during the hard times that women still outlive men, so

801
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: they continue. The conditions experienced by the people in the

802
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 1: analyzed populations were horrific. Even though the crisis that reduced

803
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: the female survival advantage in life expectancy, women still survived

804
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: better than men in all populations. Men had equal or

805
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: higher mortality than women across almost all ages. A substantial

806
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: part of the overall female advantage in life expectancy was

807
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: due to survival differences among infants. Further support of the

808
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 1: hypothesis of an overall ability of women to withstand high

809
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 1: mortality crisis better than men comes from a different mortality

810
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: measure from all populations. The extreme age, the age to

811
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: which five percent of the population survived, was higher for

812
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 1: females than for males.

813
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 2: And writer Sarah Youngblood Gregory writes specifically about the need

814
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 2: for a feminine approach to survival in their article for Cosmopolitan,

815
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 2: And here's a quote. Gender roles are obviously socially constructed,

816
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 2: and yet their conventions shape our lives and justify exclusion

817
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 2: and oppression even in our fantasy worlds. Femininity, which I'm

818
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 2: defining in a traditional sense as relating to women's softness, motherhood,

819
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 2: physical weakness, emotional communication, collaboration, and submissiveness, is often an

820
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 2: affront to the gritty survivalist mentality of the apocalypse genre, which,

821
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,800
Speaker 2: in a COVID era climate change raviged Earth, has captured

822
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 2: the imagination of so many.

823
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they go on to talk about how this, though,

824
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 1: can actually help survival rates, and how being able to

825
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 1: listen and communicate and in like standing a group that

826
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: is humanity, which is often seen as feminine, can actually

827
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: bring on a survival tactic and bring on more for

828
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: being able to survive. They also go on to talk

829
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:47,879
Speaker 1: about writers from the marginalized community and how they understand

830
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 1: how their leading heroin doesn't reject womanhood but embrace it,

831
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 1: and they talk about how it comes from a depiction

832
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,760
Speaker 1: of real life. So here's another quote from Gregory Butler,

833
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: the author and Brown's depiction of womanhood le you know,

834
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 1: on the true history of women surviving world ending events,

835
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 1: writer Fannie cho argues in her latest work that the

836
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,240
Speaker 1: apocalypse is nothing new. It happened over and over again

837
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: to marginalize people, and then conclude true femininity is a

838
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 1: tool for better, more just worlds through community care, communication, collaboration,

839
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: critical thinking, and empathy. Femininity has already survived the worst

840
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 1: and will continue to do so, maybe not on TV,

841
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 1: but always where it counts. And yeah, that was an

842
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: interesting conversation because, yeah, like we often see femininity portrayed

843
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 1: as a weakness, so they get hysterical and cry and

844
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 1: can't move on and they don't want to survive anymore.

845
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:46,320
Speaker 1: And that's not necessarily how that goes, Like the horrible

846
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: opposite portrayal of an angry mother that needs to get

847
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 1: revenged versus like the mother who just gives up instead

848
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: of the in between who sucks it up, and like,

849
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: all right, been through this, I know how we can

850
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,800
Speaker 1: get through this. Interesting.

851
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And there have been a lot of We've

852
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 2: done past episodes on this about a lot of studies

853
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 2: about pain endurance and women versus men, and just like

854
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:19,879
Speaker 2: long term endurance and women usually come out on top

855
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 2: in those studies.

856
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: So yeah, and yeah, I just want to kind of

857
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,399
Speaker 1: head on to what I think is interesting, specifically when

858
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:34,240
Speaker 1: it comes to the religious apocalyptic literature. This was my

859
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: my like secondary in education. I think I might have

860
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 1: said before literature, but I find it fascinating because they, uh,

861
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: this one actually comes from the West End Biblical Chapel

862
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: dot Org and they talk about revelation, and they talk

863
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 1: about the four women present of the apocalypse, and I

864
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: believe there's several like depictions and books often used, and

865
00:52:57,640 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 1: these are all gonna sound familiar, but one of them

866
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 1: is the Jezebel or Jezebel, which is a she devil,

867
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: and they describe it in their resources that she is

868
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 1: the leader of a church for idolatry and immorality, and

869
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,319
Speaker 1: that she was guided by the familiar spirits of the

870
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: wicked Queen of Jezebel of the Old Testament. If you

871
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: know Jezebel, she gets a pretty bad rap, you know.

872
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 1: Then we have woman in clothed with the sun, and

873
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: apparently I think she is the better version. So there's

874
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: always like a yin and a yang. I'm using Asian ideology,

875
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: but this woman all represents a corporate body. She's the

876
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:43,399
Speaker 1: nation of Israel. So remember that she has given birth

877
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: to the man child, who is the Messiah. So that's

878
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 1: the one. That's the other one. And then the Harlot.

879
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: The Harlot, she's present in a lot of like apocalyptic

880
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 1: type supernatural. She comes up a lot in that. So

881
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: this is the woman that's designated, and she's the mother

882
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 1: of all prostitutes and the abomination of the earth. This

883
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,399
Speaker 1: is all in all caps when they describe these people

884
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 1: by the way, oh my goodness, so you born. And

885
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:17,240
Speaker 1: then we had Bride of the Lamb, who is once

886
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: the horror of the Antichrist is destroyed. She is the

887
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: bride of Christ who was displayed. Okay, so in a

888
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 1: lot of representations, I think we talked about this. The

889
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 1: there's the Trinity, and it's often the church is the

890
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: bride to that, so that there's so many conversations. But

891
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting because that does come into

892
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 1: play in our regular types of things like Supernatural, like

893
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: we talked about, because there's how many apocalyptic situations do

894
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 1: they have in their fifteen seasons?

895
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 2: Every season? Every season? Yes, this is the TV show

896
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 2: by the way, everyone.

897
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,280
Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, popping back up. I just saw someone's

898
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: reaction to watching all fifteen seasons, like she was having

899
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,800
Speaker 1: a time. But I thought it was interesting because that

900
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:07,240
Speaker 1: does play a lot in what we are hearing today.

901
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: I know, the Bride of Israel, all of that. That's

902
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: that's what That's a big conversation we're having, especially when

903
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 1: we do come back and talk a little bit about

904
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five and trying to come back to

905
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 1: these roles, those gender roles that they think is holy

906
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 1: in order to fix things, but also telling us that

907
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 1: all of these things such as like natural disasters and

908
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 1: such being a thing of the apocalypse and who we

909
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,839
Speaker 1: should be watching out for. So something to take note of.

910
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 1: I did say that we were going to talk about

911
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 1: if whether or not we were survived. I sent you

912
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:46,880
Speaker 1: to quiz as any did you take them?

913
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 2: You did.

914
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:52,319
Speaker 1: Okay, the first one, how long would you survive the

915
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 1: Ultimate Zombie quiz?

916
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 2: I got five months? And I made it five months,

917
00:55:59,120 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 2: but no more.

918
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 1: I think I like four months longer than you. Good

919
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 1: for you, I'm just kidding.

920
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 2: You wouldn't like. The taste is too much cheap light beer.

921
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:20,919
Speaker 1: Oh no, beer, chili is great. I know beer canned

922
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:21,760
Speaker 1: chicken or something.

923
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,760
Speaker 2: Oh gosh.

924
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 1: And then this one, this is the buzzweek, was how

925
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 1: would you make it in the Last of Us? How

926
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: long would you make it in the Last of Us Apocalypse?

927
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: How long did you make it?

928
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 2: It's said ninety years? And then I would die of

929
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:39,280
Speaker 2: natural causes.

930
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 1: But it's not even possible, is it?

931
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:49,320
Speaker 2: But I took it twice, and I like the first

932
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 2: time I did like I said, the last time we

933
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 2: took a quiz like this, and I was like, you know,

934
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 2: I'm in between these two. And the first time I

935
00:56:56,560 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 2: took it, I got one day, So I'm on the

936
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 2: I think I'm like, I'm on the ledge for a

937
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 2: long time. One or the other.

938
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: Either you're immediately gonna die or you'll survive forever. If

939
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 1: you can survive that one day, Okay, mine says thirty years.

940
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 1: So I feel that's that's a good time. After thirty

941
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: years of barely surviving, you trip on some fun guy

942
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 1: and our heart of fun guy people come to come

943
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 1: to you. Yeah, I'm devoured by fun guy people. But yeah,

944
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 1: that would be sad. I'm like, oh no, well, I

945
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 1: don't get I don't get a natural of death. I

946
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 1: guess that's fine, that's fine. It turns out that we

947
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: do kind of survive ish. I do like the people

948
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: who are like who because they did write that. I like, immediately,

949
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 1: I want immediately out like Caroline and I have a

950
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 1: whole pact in case a zombie apocalypse happened. So, oh,

951
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 1: there you go. Guys, that is a very shortened could

952
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:58,919
Speaker 1: we survive? Let's look at what society and entertainment tells

953
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 1: us so vive. It's a toss up.

954
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, like it took us an hour

955
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 2: long to get to about. Yeah, toss up, because it is.

956
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:17,560
Speaker 2: That's kind of what the apocalypse is about. I guess,

957
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 2: although you know you're religious, like the rapture in theory,

958
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 2: if you've done everything right, you'll be all right. That

959
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 2: we'll have to come back and talk more about some

960
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 2: of that stuff. But For now, that is what we

961
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 2: have to say about women and the apocalypse. Please let

962
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 2: us know if you have any thoughts on this, if

963
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 2: you have a favorite apocalyptic entertainment piece, media, or just

964
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 2: any suggestions about what what more we should talk about

965
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 2: about this. You can't email us at STEPHANIDM, mom Stuff

966
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 2: at iHeartMedia dot com or Hello at stuff Will Never

967
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 2: Told You dot com. You can find us on Blue

968
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 2: Sky at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok

969
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 2: at stuff We've Never Told You. We're also on YouTube.

970
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 2: We have a tea public store, and we have a

971
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 2: book you can get wherever you get your books, and

972
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 2: we do talk about some of this stuff in there.

973
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 2: Thanks as always to our super producer Christina, executive producer

974
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 2: and our contributor Joey.

975
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 1: Thank you and thanks to you for listening.

976
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 2: Stuff Will Never Told You is protection of iHeart Radio.

977
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 2: For more podcasts on my heart Radio, you can check

978
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 2: out the heart Radio app app a podcast or where

979
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 2: you listen to your favorite shows.