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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of this show.

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Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Thursday. Have an amazing

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Speaker 3: show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal?

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Speaker 2: Indeed, we do a lot of interesting things for you

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Speaker 2: this morning. So first of all, President Trump opposing a

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Speaker 2: congressional stock trading band because it might involve him.

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Speaker 4: So that's very interesting.

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Speaker 2: Going after Josh Holly aggressively lots to get into there

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Speaker 2: some other sort of internal mega drama or Maha drama

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Speaker 2: as well. That is really important. Effectively, corporate lobbyists being

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Speaker 2: used to spike any sort of potential populist reforms throughout

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Speaker 2: the government, so that's a really important one to track

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Speaker 2: and sadly being very successful with it. We're also taking

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Speaker 2: a look at a few different aspects of AI. You

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Speaker 2: had a Sam Altman interview with the jovonn that was

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Speaker 2: really interesting, and Mark Zuckerberg sort of indicating that they

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Speaker 2: are getting pretty close to AGI. So have to keep

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Speaker 2: our eyes on this because this could dramatically change your life,

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Speaker 2: the world, et cetera, and in ways that are very

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Speaker 2: difficult to anticipate. We're also going to have Owen Jones

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Speaker 2: on the show to talk about Jeremy Corbyn's new party,

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Speaker 2: which has already surpassed all of the existing parties in

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Speaker 2: terms of membership, which is kind of incredible. The same time,

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Speaker 2: you've got Keir Starmer saying that if there isn't a

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Speaker 2: ceasefire he will recognize a Palestinian state in September. You

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Speaker 2: have the Canadians saying the same thing, Macron had already

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Speaker 2: said the same thing, and Trump, you highlighted this, Trump

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Speaker 2: saying that if they do that, it will imperil their

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Speaker 2: trade deal. So I'm sure you love that from an

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Speaker 2: America first perspective.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: I mean, of course, it makes sense to subject our

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Speaker 3: trading relationship with our number one trading partner, Canada to

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Speaker 3: its position on the diplomatic status of the Nation of Palestine.

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Speaker 3: Definitely makes sense for a lot of American industry. So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's where we're at right now.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we're also tracking. There was a vote last night

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Speaker 2: in the Senate to block some offensive weapons that we're

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Speaker 2: supposed to go to Israel. The TLDR is actually a

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Speaker 2: majority of the caucus. This is kind of astonishing of

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Speaker 2: the Democratic Caucus voted for that resolution to block those weapons.

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Speaker 2: Wait and see how Melissa's luck and voted though, Wait

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Speaker 2: and see on that one. Pretty interesting stuff there. And

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Speaker 2: we are also really anticipating and looking forward to speaking

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Speaker 2: to GFT GHF whistleblower Anthony Aguilar, who has been coming

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Speaker 2: forward and talking about what he saw at those quote

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Speaker 2: aid distribution sites. He is receiving some pushback from GHF

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Speaker 2: as well, so we're going to get them to respond

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Speaker 2: to their claims.

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Speaker 3: That's right, We're going to ask him all about that.

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Speaker 3: Lieutenant Colonel aguilar story is very important. We do, of

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Speaker 3: course want to make sure that stands up to scrutiny,

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Speaker 3: and so we're looking forward to having here on the show.

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Speaker 3: We're going to have him in the studio and we're

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Speaker 3: going to get down to it as much as possible.

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Speaker 3: Before we get to that, though, we have some exciting news.

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Speaker 3: Can we go and put a zero please up on

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Speaker 3: the screen. It appears that we are the twenty fifth

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Speaker 3: biggest podcast in the United States, not political podcast, twenty

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Speaker 3: fifth biggest podcast in the whole US, according to YouTube's

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Speaker 3: latest release of their weekly top podcast shows. That is

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Speaker 3: Breakingpoints dot com if you are able. But with that,

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Speaker 3: let's go ahead and get to the news on stock

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Speaker 3: trading ban I will say I believe we are some

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Speaker 3: of the very first people ever to highlight this issue

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Speaker 3: at a national level in Washington. That's not just me,

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Speaker 3: that's really not me saying it. I think Unusual Wales,

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Speaker 3: the Twitter account that really popularized this with his first report.

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Speaker 1: Back in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 3: He would even tell you that where the reasons that

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Speaker 3: we really made this popular. I'm not going to take

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Speaker 3: entire credit, but we've highlighted it from the beginning. It's

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Speaker 3: been a five year long journey to actually try and

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Speaker 3: get this piece of legislation through.

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Speaker 1: And we are closer, except maybe not. Let's go and

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Speaker 1: put this up there on the screen.

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Speaker 3: So just yesterday, Donald Trump, it turned out the news

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Speaker 3: came out and after the passage of a stock trading

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Speaker 3: ban that went through a Senate committee, which will then

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Speaker 3: report to the House, was vehemently attacked here by the

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Speaker 3: President of the United States. Why because in that stock

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Speaker 3: legislation it also says that it would apply to the

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Speaker 3: vice president and the president. Now keep in mind, it

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Speaker 3: would not even apply to the vice president or president

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Speaker 3: until twenty twenty nine, and yet Trump still unleashes this

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Speaker 3: ti rade quote. Why would one Republican Senator Josh Holly

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Speaker 3: from the Great State of Missouri join with all Democrats

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Speaker 3: to block a review sponsored by Senator Rick Scott with

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Speaker 3: the support of almost all Republicans of Nancy Pelosi stock

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Speaker 3: trading over the last twenty five years. The information was

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Speaker 3: inappropriately released just minutes before the vote.

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Speaker 1: I'm still not really clear what.

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Speaker 3: He's saying about that quote, very much like sabotage the

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Speaker 3: Democrats because of our tremendous achievements and success. I've been

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Speaker 3: trying to target me for a long period of time,

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Speaker 3: and they're using Josh Holly, who I got elected twice

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Speaker 3: as a pawn. I wonder why Holly would pass a bill.

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Speaker 3: Nancy Pelosi is absolutely in love with He is playing

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Speaker 3: right into the dirty hands of the Democrats. It's a

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Speaker 3: great bill for her and her husband, but so bad

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Speaker 3: for our country. I don't think real Republicans want to

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Speaker 3: see their president. It was an unprecedented success, targeted because

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Speaker 3: of their whims of their second tier senator named Josh Hollie. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so let's actually take a listen to Senator Holly on

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Speaker 3: the piece of legislation I guess is reported favorably out

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Speaker 3: of the committee.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a list.

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Speaker 5: Eighty six percent of Americans say that members of Congress

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Speaker 5: should not be able to buy and sell shares of

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Speaker 5: stock individual stock while they are members of this body.

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Speaker 5: And they are absolutely correct. And the reason for all

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Speaker 5: of this is is that, quite frankly, members of this

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Speaker 5: body are privy to information that the normal person just

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Speaker 5: is not. Now is that insider trading. It is not

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Speaker 5: under the laws. Sometimes people say, well, we already have

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Speaker 5: insider trading laws, we don't need a stock band. Well,

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Speaker 5: the information that members of Congress are privy to is

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Speaker 5: technically not covered by the insider trading laws. But nobody

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Speaker 5: really believes that the information that we get isn't valuable.

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Speaker 5: It is quite valuable. And so when you look at

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Speaker 5: what members of Congress are privy to, what they are

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Speaker 5: able to trade on the access that they have, it's

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Speaker 5: just qualitatively different than your average Joe or Jane, which

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Speaker 5: is why we ought to put into place common sense guardrails.

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Speaker 5: You should not be able to buy and trade individual

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Speaker 5: stock shares in which frankly, we have an interest in

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Speaker 5: the work that we do. We have information that no

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Speaker 5: other people get know their members of the public have.

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Speaker 5: This bill would finally readdress that.

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Speaker 3: I really don't even know how you could possibly argue

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Speaker 3: with it. And Donald Trump himself was actually asked about

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Speaker 3: that the White House shortly before he released his tie

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Speaker 3: rate against Trump.

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Speaker 1: Here's what he had to say.

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Speaker 6: You know, Nancy Pelosi became rich by having inside information.

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Speaker 6: She made a fortune with her husband, and I think

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Speaker 6: that's disgraceful. What I do think is Nancy Pelosi should

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Speaker 6: be investigated because what she has the highest return of

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Speaker 6: anybody practically in the history of Wall Street save a

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Speaker 6: few And how did that happen. It happen by she

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Speaker 6: knows exactly what's going to happen, what's going to be announced.

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Speaker 6: You'd buys stock and then the stock goes up after

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Speaker 6: the announcement, So.

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Speaker 3: Very comfortable here, of course talking about Nancy Pelosi, And shockingly,

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Speaker 3: Nancy Pelosi is now actually in favor of the band.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, she's in her eighties and she's made

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Speaker 3: her hundreds of millions. So at this point, sure or

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Speaker 3: why not? You know, we can go ahead and pass it.

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Speaker 3: She'll barely be in Congress for much longer. So finally,

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Speaker 3: let's take a listen to her response there to the president.

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Speaker 5: I wanted to give you a chance just to respond.

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Speaker 5: He accused you of insider trading. What's your response to that?

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Speaker 7: That's very ridiculous. In fact, I very much support the

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Speaker 7: trading of members of Congress, not that I think anybody's

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Speaker 7: doing anything wrong. If they are, they are prosecuted and

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Speaker 7: they go to jail. But because of the confidence and

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Speaker 7: it stills in the American people don't worry about this.

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Speaker 7: But I have no concern about the obvious investments had

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Speaker 7: been made over time. I'm not into it.

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Speaker 1: My husband is.

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Speaker 7: But it isn't anything to do with anything inside her.

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Speaker 7: But the president has his own exposure, so he's always projecting.

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Speaker 7: He's always projecting, and let's not give him any more

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Speaker 7: time on that. Please, we're going forward.

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Speaker 3: Let's not spend any more time on it. Okay, let's

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Speaker 3: just I mean listening credit. I guess you know, she

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Speaker 3: said pass it like I'm not even into it. My

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Speaker 3: husband is, yeah, he's pretty good at it. Actually, well, okay,

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Speaker 3: let's actually, Chrystal, let's look into this piece of legislation.

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Speaker 3: What is this legislation. It would ban new purchases of

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Speaker 3: individual stocks by covered officials.

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Speaker 8: Okay.

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Speaker 3: The officials must then divest their existing holdings within ninety

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Speaker 3: days after enactment. Officials elected before passage may delay divestment

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Speaker 3: until the start of their next term, meaning that President

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Speaker 3: Trump and Vice President Events would not even have to

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Speaker 3: divest until twenty twenty nine. Members would have to certify

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Speaker 3: compliance to respective ethics committees, and every two years there

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Speaker 3: would be a compliance audit by the Government Accountability Office.

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Speaker 3: Congressional violations at least ten percent of the value of

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Speaker 3: prohibited investments and executive branch violations would disgorge profits, plus

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Speaker 3: a special council would find investment value and or up

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Speaker 3: to ten thousand dollars, whichever is higher, removes all blind

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Speaker 3: trust investments passed through loopholes. Mandate public and searchable financial

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Speaker 3: disclosure databases, requires a note of any federal benefit requested

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Speaker 3: to received by officials, including loans, contracts, and grants, with

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Speaker 3: a five hundred dollars penalty for non reporting, and increase

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Speaker 3: his penalties for failing to file under the Stock Transaction

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Speaker 3: Act from two hundred to five hundred dollars. So, look,

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Speaker 3: I think it's obviously a fantastic piece of legislation, and

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's any surprise then why all of

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Speaker 3: these uber rich members of the Republican Party and frankly

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Speaker 3: a Democratic Party two in the background as well, who've

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Speaker 3: been lobbying against this are against it. I mean, you

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Speaker 3: can take a look at the net worth of all

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Speaker 3: of these individuals, including President Trump, by the way, whose

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Speaker 3: net worth is exploded by billions of dollars thanks to

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Speaker 3: his Trump Mean coin. Under his the current administration, he's

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Speaker 3: actually richer today than he's ever been before.

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Speaker 1: Keep that in mind some.

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Speaker 4: But like forty percent of isn't that worth now?

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Speaker 1: Is massive?

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Speaker 4: Just in this administration.

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Speaker 3: I think in his first month of the White House

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Speaker 3: he made like six pillars Okay, not made, but you

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Speaker 3: know it was on paper, increased networth by you know,

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Speaker 3: several billion dollars as a result of this mean coin.

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Speaker 3: I'm just pointing out though, that again, this literally goes

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Speaker 3: to twenty twenty nine. I would not personally put it

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Speaker 3: past Senator Ron Johnson and Senator Rick Scott, who are

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Speaker 3: both filthy rich, not just rich, filthy rich hundreds of

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Speaker 3: millions of dollars in trying to tell Trump that this

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Speaker 3: was a quote target and attack on him, because that's

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Speaker 3: why they want to knew the legislation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean there's two possibilities. One is that

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Speaker 2: he you know, was told that this is to target

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Speaker 2: him and he just bought it and didn't look into

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Speaker 2: it further. Or the other is that he intends to

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Speaker 2: stay in office past twenty twenty eight. Those are basically

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Speaker 2: the two possibilities. And you know, just to get into

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Speaker 2: a little bit of the inside baseball here on this

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Speaker 2: committee where you know that it just passed out of

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Speaker 2: in the Senate, Ran Paul was opposed to any form

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Speaker 2: of stock trading ban. So Josh Holly decided, okay, well,

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Speaker 2: I can't partner with the Republicans. The Democrats were not

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Speaker 2: willing to go along with one that didn't After also

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Speaker 2: include the president and the vice president, and Ran Paul

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Speaker 2: was just opposed to anything at all. So Hally made

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Speaker 2: the decision, Okay, well I'm going to work with the

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Speaker 2: Democrats to pass something out of committee. So the committee

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Speaker 2: vote was party line. It was all the Democrats voted

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Speaker 2: for it, all of the Republicans voted against it except

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Speaker 2: Josh Holly, and that's how it gets out of committee,

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Speaker 2: and that's why Trump is targeting. Holly is the one

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Speaker 2: Republican who actually voted for this to come out of committee.

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Speaker 2: So that's kind of the inside baseball of how this

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Speaker 2: all went down and why it did include this provision,

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Speaker 2: which I think is entirely reasonable and responsible. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if members of Congress have like insider information they can

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Speaker 2: trade on, the president has far more than that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and just think about just think of what we've seen

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Speaker 2: with Trump's like tariff announcements and the way that if

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Speaker 2: you knew the timing of those, the mass amount of

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Speaker 2: profits that you could make. And there are some indications

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Speaker 2: that there have been insiders that have been trading off

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Speaker 2: of that inside knowledge and getting wildly rich because of it.

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Speaker 2: So it is incredibly logical and appropriate that it also

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Speaker 2: apply to the executive branch and specifically to the president

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Speaker 2: vice president.

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Speaker 3: Let's go ahead and now put a let's play a

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Speaker 3: five for everybody to watch. How Senator Ron Johnson, who

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Speaker 3: is worth literally hundreds of millions of dollars, describes why

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Speaker 3: this will make it so difficult for people who want

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Speaker 3: to better themselves to get elected.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 9: We make it very unattractive for people to step up

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Speaker 9: to plate and run for office or potentially serve an office.

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Speaker 9: You could relabel this law, quite honestly, the Career Politician

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Speaker 9: Protection Act, because it'll make it so unattractive for people

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Speaker 9: to give up their business. And we have plenty protections,

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Speaker 9: we have the disclosure. This is a completely unnecessary.

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Speaker 1: Piece of legislation.

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Speaker 9: It's going to create all kinds of unintended consequences. Center

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Speaker 9: Scott just pointed out one of them, just one of them.

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Speaker 9: So again I voted no last time. I'm as strong

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Speaker 9: no this time, even stronger.

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Speaker 1: This time.

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Speaker 3: I will vote no, and we are going to make

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Speaker 3: it very Let's keep this in mind, it's just individual stocks. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: why is this so? You can still buy the S

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Speaker 3: and P five hundred ETF. You can buy any give

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Speaker 3: up your business. Brother, That's just not accurate. You can

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Speaker 3: buy a Vanguard mutual fund. You can put your money

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Speaker 3: in treasuries, you can put your money in the S

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Speaker 3: and P. Five hundred, which probably you should anyways, if

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Speaker 3: you actually want a diversified portfolio. The only reason why

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Speaker 3: you may want to trade individual stock is what. Okay,

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Speaker 3: let's all just be honest here, right, you know, the

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Speaker 3: quote unattractive to run for office is.

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Speaker 1: Just patently absurd.

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Speaker 3: This is one of the wealthiest members of the entire

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Speaker 3: United States Senate. He flies back and forth in a

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Speaker 3: private jet. I'm not even making this shit up.

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Speaker 2: If it makes it less attractive for Ron Johnson to

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Speaker 2: serve in the Senate, that is another point in favor

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Speaker 2: of this bill, right, humble opinion.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and same with the I mean, just people need

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Speaker 3: to really internalize the way that this is all being

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Speaker 3: used as a cover. Like right now, tens of millions

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Speaker 3: of dollars in net worth for all of these people

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Speaker 3: who are using this as a smoke screen. Let's put

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Speaker 3: up on the screen about how the stock trading ban

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Speaker 3: is sparking drama.

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Speaker 1: Quote with the White House, because the.

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Speaker 3: Bill again only applies to the President and the Vice

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Speaker 3: president in twenty twenty nine.

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Speaker 1: It gives a ton of delay.

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Speaker 3: All it asks is that you don't invest in individual stocks.

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Speaker 1: I just don't know why this should be so on

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Speaker 1: a track.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, many of these rules already apply

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Speaker 3: to members of the executive branch who are in government service.

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Speaker 3: People need to remember this that if you are let's

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Speaker 3: say a government appointee to I don't know, let's make

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Speaker 3: something up like the Commerce Department, you are subject to

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Speaker 3: reporting every single one of your individual holdings and in

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Speaker 3: many cases you will be required to offload, especially let's

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Speaker 3: say you're working on the China desk at the Commerce

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Speaker 3: which means that you would be responsible for, you know,

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Speaker 3: doing tariff policy on TSMC on Taiwan, something like that.

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Speaker 3: You are not allowed to own Nvidia stock. You would

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Speaker 3: especially not buy new and videos that you can buy

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Speaker 3: the S and P five hundred if you want to,

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Speaker 3: but you are not, and you have to go through

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Speaker 3: an ethics review both whenever you get hired I think

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Speaker 3: every year, for disclosure at that point and on your

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Speaker 3: way out, just to verify that you did not do anything.

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Speaker 3: The only people it doesn't apply to are these elected

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Speaker 3: members of Congress, the Vice president, and the president. It's

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Speaker 3: outrageous that it's even allowed at all. And it's just

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Speaker 3: one of those where you can watch so clearly. How

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Speaker 3: you know they use Trump's own ego to basically weaponize

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Speaker 3: this type of stuff. Either again, now listen, it's also possible,

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Speaker 3: like you said, Trump is like, oh, I'm gonna be

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Speaker 3: president in twenty twenty, and so I don't want to, right,

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Speaker 3: but I mean patently absurd. I will note I believe

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Speaker 3: Jade Vans has spoken in the past about a stock

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Speaker 3: trading band.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think Trump has said it, you know before.

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Speaker 3: But this is one of those Epstein file type things

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Speaker 3: where this is massively popular. You can't be going around

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Speaker 3: over the last four years launching congressional stock trade. You know,

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Speaker 3: they're literally TikTok accounts and others of people who copy

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Speaker 3: the Pelosi trade right, and I've actually made a lot

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Speaker 3: of money. A lot of people have done that. They're

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Speaker 3: mostly playing options. By the way, please do not do

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Speaker 3: that if you're an individual person. But my point is

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Speaker 3: just they have made it into a cultural meme. I

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Speaker 3: think correctly that these people obviously have access to information,

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Speaker 3: and even if they don't that the appearance of it

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Speaker 3: is disgusting and undemocratic. And now you know, this is

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Speaker 3: why I think this is such an important story, because

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Speaker 3: you're watching in real time the way that like culture war,

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Speaker 3: brain rot and bullshit is basically used to weaponize on

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Speaker 3: behalf of all the powerful. And then one guy Holly,

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Speaker 3: who has you know, some principle or whatever on this issue,

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Speaker 3: and he has for the last five years been working

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Speaker 3: genuinely on multiple pieces of cosponsored legislation to try to

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Speaker 3: get this done.

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Speaker 1: You do the right thing and you're nuked from the

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Speaker 1: top of the one.

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Speaker 2: Holly, by the way, I mean, has been incredibly loyal

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Speaker 2: to draw on was out there doing the fifth pop

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Speaker 2: on January sixth. Less you think he's some you know,

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Speaker 2: squishy liberal rhino type like he has been rocks up

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Speaker 2: for Trump. Doesn't matter, does not matter. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I think there's the Epstein comparison works in another way

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Speaker 2: as well, because you know, Trump and whoever are the

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Speaker 2: other Republican electeds. We're happy to talk about Epstein the

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Speaker 2: context of like Bill Gates and Bill Clinton and same

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Speaker 2: thing here. They're happy to talk about stock trading ban

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Speaker 2: when it comes to Nancy Pelosi. But and she became

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Speaker 2: a center understandably a fixation of this because she does

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Speaker 2: seem to be really good trader for some reason, and

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Speaker 2: they are very wealthy and all these sorts of things.

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Speaker 2: But she is far from alone, and it is a

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Speaker 2: very bipartisan concern. And then of course, the President's corruption

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Speaker 2: dwarfs any of even the you know, insider trading of

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Speaker 2: Nancy politic. It's not even close. When you think about

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Speaker 2: the the meme coin, you think about people paying millions

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Speaker 2: of dollars, you know, putting that into the meme coin

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Speaker 2: so they can have dinner with the president. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's just he has taken it to the deals that

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Speaker 2: Don Junior is doing, the live golf deal, all that

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Speaker 2: sort of stuff. He has taken it to a level

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Speaker 2: that is truly on another plane from anything we have

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Speaker 2: seen before and makes, you know, Pelosi's trades not to mention,

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Speaker 2: like Hunter's paintings look like child's play. Now, that's not

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Speaker 2: to excuse them, that's not to say these aren't things

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Speaker 2: that we shouldn't that you know, we shouldn't care about.

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Speaker 2: But he's very happy to talk about corruption when it's Pelosi.

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Speaker 2: But there is zero interest in actually raining it in

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Speaker 2: and looking in the mirror, because then that would implicate him,

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Speaker 2: and that's certainly, you know, not going to be acceptable.

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Speaker 2: And so you know, also these Republicans who are in

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Speaker 2: the committee like they deserve to be put on blast too.

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Speaker 2: One hundred A bunch of these people probably you know,

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Speaker 2: at some point or another paid lip service to caring

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Speaker 2: about this. But once the dear Leader is implicated in

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Speaker 2: any way, even tangentially, even though it's not even until

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Speaker 2: the next term, suddenly they are lockstep. Every single Republican

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Speaker 2: except Josh Holly voted against this in committee.

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Speaker 1: So just so absurd, it really is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and one more thing, because this will be a

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Speaker 2: theme throughout this as we talk about some other stories

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Speaker 2: with regard to corruption, what's going on inside of MAGA.

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Speaker 2: You know, Trump was never more correct when he said

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Speaker 2: I get to decide what is MAGA?

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Speaker 4: What is America?

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Speaker 1: First?

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Speaker 2: And Laura Lumer we're going to talk about her in

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Speaker 2: a little bit, is probably the person who understood most

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Speaker 2: what that actually meant. And the bottom line is it

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Speaker 2: means total and complete fealty and loyalty to him in

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Speaker 2: his whims and what he wants at every turn. So

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Speaker 2: even for someone like Josh Holly, who again was a

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Speaker 2: loyal soldier, you know, let the record show how much

439
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:35,400
Speaker 2: he has been there for Trump. Even for someone like him,

440
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,960
Speaker 2: you do one thing that goes against what he wants,

441
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 2: and that's it.

442
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,120
Speaker 4: You're being put on blast on truth.

443
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 3: Ridiculous. Let's go and put the next part up on

444
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 3: the screen. This is a story that just highlights kind

445
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:45,960
Speaker 3: of more what we're talking about. This is from our

446
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,440
Speaker 3: friend sorob Amari and the title is the Antitrust War

447
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 3: Inside of MAGA, powerful lobbyists are battling populist reformers. And

448
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 3: what they talk about here specifically is that one of

449
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 3: the people who, by the way, we celebrated here on

450
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,399
Speaker 3: the show was Gail Slater, who is aimed as the

451
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 3: anti trust chair over at the Assistant Attorney General's Office

452
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 3: for Anti Trust Enforcement. Now, what they say here, specifically,

453
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 3: according to a lot of his reporting, is that there

454
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,639
Speaker 3: was literally a boozy backroom deal quote not a figure

455
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:14,159
Speaker 3: of speech.

456
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:15,159
Speaker 1: It took place.

457
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,880
Speaker 3: Who described a meeting between government officials and lobbyists at

458
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 3: one of Washington's quote private city clubs over cocktails, and

459
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:27,160
Speaker 3: that during this lobbyists basically went after these former DOJ

460
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 3: officials and others to get them both fired and to

461
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 3: allow a merger to go through which was being blocked

462
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 3: by these anti trusts enforcers. I mean, I would not

463
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 3: sit here and claim anti trust with some key provision you.

464
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 1: Know of MAGA or any of that.

465
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,400
Speaker 3: But at an intellectual level, it was one embraced Gail

466
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 3: Slater used to work for JD Vance. This is somebody

467
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 3: who Josh Holly, who we just talked about JD many

468
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,680
Speaker 3: other members you know of the new Newer, Younger right,

469
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,640
Speaker 3: were very skeptical of big tech, very skeptical of big business,

470
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 3: and hired many of these people to operationalize that. But

471
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 3: what you see inside of the story is basically using

472
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 3: these lobbyists in these deals to then get people fired

473
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 3: from the Department of Justice who are working on these

474
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,160
Speaker 3: to allow these types of transactions to go through.

475
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:15,440
Speaker 1: It's just totally ridiculous.

476
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely, And Raheem Kassam, who was a bandon

477
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 2: war room guy and potentially has some still It's not.

478
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 1: Like some shit lib Okay, just so people understand.

479
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, definitely not.

480
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,680
Speaker 2: But he says about all of this, he says, what

481
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 2: if I told you this was happening because greedy, fake

482
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 2: maga world grifters and lobbyists are upset that the anti

483
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 2: trust team was actually doing their job instead of taking

484
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 2: cash from big corporates to turn a blind eye to

485
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 2: monopolistic practices. And so, you know, it reminds me Sager

486
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 2: of early on when you had Zuckerberg and you had

487
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 2: Indresen going on the Rogan podcast and using their appearances

488
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 2: to knife the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which is something

489
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 2: that should be you know, favored by anyone who would

490
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 2: dare call themselves a populist. And they framed it as like, oh,

491
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 2: they have this ideological war against conservatives, which was just

492
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 2: totally I mean, it was the opposite of the truth.

493
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 2: They literally, you know, were portraying this completely backwards. But

494
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,199
Speaker 2: you know, that was the signal of how much power

495
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 2: these corporate forces, and you know, big tech has been

496
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 2: fully fully brought into this administration, how much power those

497
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 2: forces were ultimately, and.

498
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 3: This settlement I'm talking about specifically is Hewlett Packard, and

499
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 3: it's kind of complicated, is technology related though, so people

500
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 3: should understand, But basically the background of it is that

501
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 3: they had come to a settlement. The settlement was continued

502
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 3: under the Trump administration, was started by the Biden administration.

503
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 3: That settlement went forward, it was near finalization, did not

504
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 3: meet approval actually by Gail Slater. Eventually Pam Bondi and

505
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 3: her people come over the top route and they're like, no,

506
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 3: this thing is going through. It's going to happen. And

507
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 3: then what happens from there is that two of her

508
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 3: top deputies are fired on Monday. So that's the background

509
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 3: of how this all works. And you know, our friend

510
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 3: Matt Stoller actually really wrote about this AA please up

511
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 3: on the screen, and what he says is, quote like

512
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 3: the rest of the government under Trump, the Anti Trust

513
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 3: Division just got turned into a pay to play operation.

514
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,679
Speaker 3: For senators are trying to expose what's happening to anti

515
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 3: trust and our society. But really what he's trying to

516
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 3: point out here is the ability for a lot of

517
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 3: these people.

518
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: To weaponize like quote.

519
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 3: MAGA and you know, lobbying inside of the division where

520
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 3: not only are they getting what they want, but they're

521
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 3: actively fired targeting it and getting fired. You know, many

522
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 3: people who are working on this in good faith, like

523
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 3: as Stolar says, quote, the stakes here are imms. I

524
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 3: guess what i'd call Trump has done the bizarro New

525
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 3: Deal because it's a reordering of our constitutional system. And

526
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 3: he specifically talks about the ability for these like corrupt

527
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 3: lobbyists and other people to put pressure onto Trump, you know,

528
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,959
Speaker 3: or at least Trump administration officials to allow this stuff

529
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 3: to go through. So again, I know this can sound

530
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 3: nitty gritty, but in the story that we're about to

531
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 3: get to on MAHA involving my friend doctor Vanne Persott,

532
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 3: it's really important because this stuff has real ability to

533
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,719
Speaker 3: get people fired who are actual reformers who did make

534
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 3: it into the government.

535
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 8: Yeah.

536
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well it also exposes you know, why Wall Street

537
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 2: was happy to have Trump back and continues to be

538
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 2: happy with Trump in spite of all the like terraff insanity,

539
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 2: on again, off again, et cetera, is because they feel like, well,

540
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 2: if you have the money to get it to the table,

541
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 2: you're going to get what you want. And that's what

542
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 2: happened here. That's exactly what happened in this instance. These

543
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 2: you know, lobbyists had these cozy relationships with various DOJ employees,

544
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 2: and they were able to make what Sorob describes as

545
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,959
Speaker 2: boozy backroom deals to ultimately get their way, and Stolar writes,

546
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 2: in part, it's a really good piece. I recommend people

547
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 2: read it because it talks it sort of uses this

548
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 2: situation as the peg, but then takes a broader view

549
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 2: of overall what's happening within the Trump second second administration.

550
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: And he says, you know, a lot of what this

551
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 2: is based on is sort of like pyramid scheme mentality

552
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 2: or con artist mentality. Says architecture of scam discourse is

553
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 2: to tell a populous story based on distrust in the

554
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 2: establishment while offering a get rich quick moral solution. Criticisms

555
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 2: are forms of negative thinking must be avoided. Any critique

556
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 2: of particular leaders represents a personal failure on the part

557
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 2: of the person making the negative observation. Meanwhile, the insiders

558
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 2: running the puremid scheme operate like a mafia instead of

559
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 2: Don's negotiating with one another about how to divide the

560
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 2: wealth they've extracted. All public narratives are tools to extract.

561
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: Everyone is ruthless and expendable, and the notion of good

562
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 2: faith does not exist. That doesn't mean ugly enough these

563
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 2: people are all bad, just that when they do useful things,

564
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 2: it's merely ancillary, and he says, all of this bizarre

565
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 2: new deal is shifting us towards a far more hierarchical,

566
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 2: corporatized state aka and oligarchy. So not to say things

567
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 2: were great before, but the level of explicit pay to

568
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 2: play is on a level you know, it's of a

569
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 2: different character than what we've experienced in the past. And

570
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 2: again that's why Wall Street is happy with this, because

571
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 2: if you have the money to get the seat at

572
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 2: the table, you are by and large going to get

573
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 2: what you want, including people fired.

574
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 3: That is a perfect transition to our next story on

575
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 3: Doctor vine Pisad. Many of you might remember Doctor p

576
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 3: has been on the show a couple of times, somebody

577
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 3: who's research and analysis I relied on a lot during

578
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 3: the COVID pandemic. He, just in case anybody doesn't remember,

579
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 3: was literally, you know, a credential doctor with a background

580
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 3: and epidemiology, a longtime career of publishing reports, specifically about

581
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 3: how big pharma runs drug trials through He was appointed

582
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 3: at the FDA as the head of Biologics, which is

583
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 3: genuinely one of the most important desks at the FDA,

584
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 3: responsible for the approval of a lot of new experimental drugs,

585
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 3: vaccines and more, a massive portfolio for which he was

586
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 3: obviously highly credentialed as well as somebody who's had a

587
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 3: lot of Maha sympathies and was really a kind of

588
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 3: a Maha figure in his own right, going from a

589
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 3: doctor starting his own YouTube channel becoming a really reliable

590
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 3: source for a lot of people who have those sympathies. Well, guys,

591
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 3: he was just summarily fired from the FDA. Let's go

592
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 3: and put this up there on the screen, and I'm

593
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 3: gonna explain this story.

594
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: So and the headline here, by the way, is not

595
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: entirely accurate.

596
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 3: It says vine Prossad, a powerful FDA official departs after

597
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 3: controversy over rare disease drugs. This was top deputy to

598
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 3: Marty macred. This is going to be a little complicated,

599
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 3: so everybody stick with me, and I'm relying on the

600
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 3: analysis of actual doctors to break some of this story down.

601
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 3: So here's really what it all gets to is that

602
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 3: there was this new experimental drug, all right, this new

603
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 3: experimental drug from a company Surrepta. Now what happened is

604
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 3: that they got accelerated approval for a new experimental drug

605
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 3: on the promise they would complete phase four trials. The

606
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 3: phase four trials never got done in that time period.

607
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: It was linked to at least two deaths.

608
00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 3: Its approval and expedition was then paused, not even stopped

609
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 3: by vine Prossad as is under his new under his

610
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 3: new desk over at the FDA. As in he's doing

611
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 3: his job. You have a biotech company here which has

612
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 3: made some two billion dollars or whatever on the back

613
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 3: of this drug, holding all these press conferences about accelerated

614
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 3: approval for this new experimental that it has to do

615
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 3: with a gene therapy. Well, it ends up being linked

616
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 3: there to a couple of debts. Now it's not, you know,

617
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 3: entirely clear that it caused or anything, but obviously should

618
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 3: bear some scrutiny. That's exactly what you would want your

619
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 3: top FDA official who's in charge of approving, disapprovement or

620
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 3: whatever new experimental drugs to do. Okay, there's a lot

621
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 3: of powerful interests. We don't care, it's linked to some debts.

622
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 3: Let's pause, let's figure out what's going on. What happens

623
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 3: is that that company and others start a public lobbying

624
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 3: campaign against vine Prossad, Rick Santorum, who everyone will remember,

625
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 3: who's a former I think he's a governor at I

626
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 3: forget exactly where he's from.

627
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: He's been a while to.

628
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 4: See senator from Pennsylvania.

629
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: He ran for president eight famously what he wins the

630
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: Iowa caucusus.

631
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 4: Christian himself as populous by the way right.

632
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 3: So Rick Santorum and Laura Lumer start a campaign against Prisad. Now,

633
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 3: I guess credit to Santaorum. His campaign against Prossad was

634
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 3: based entirely on the drug. Laura Lumer, however, has started

635
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 3: at started attacking Vinet Pissad as quote, a leftist saboteur.

636
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 3: Let's go and put this up there on the screen,

637
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 3: just for an example. She says, we have a crisis

638
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 3: at the FDA. A wolf in sheep's clothing is sabotaging

639
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 3: make America healthy again. Doctor Prisad, a self proclaimed progressive

640
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 3: liberal and Bernie Sanders fanboy, wormed his way into a

641
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 3: top FDA role as the director for Center for Biologics

642
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 3: Evaluation and Research.

643
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: Pointed by R. F.

644
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 3: Junior, there is no bureaucratic misstep as a catastrophtic vetting

645
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 3: failure threatens to derail America first healthcare Revolution. Assad's anti

646
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 3: Trump rhetoric, radical left wing ideology, and deliberate actions to

647
00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 3: obstruct our president's deregulatory mission prove he's dangerous misfit.

648
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: The time to act is now.

649
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 3: He must be removed and before he destroys Trump's fission

650
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 3: for a healthier America.

651
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: Now here's the thing. Let's put B three up there

652
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: on the screen.

653
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 3: This is from ache A Niche Coca, friend of mine,

654
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 3: and here's what he points out.

655
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: He says their stock was cut into.

656
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 3: Half, trading over sixty on news that Vena was hired

657
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 3: as the director which oversees the vaccines and gene therapy.

658
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 3: Now that the person is likely to be fired for

659
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 3: his controversial decisions, so it's going to regain some of

660
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 3: their valuation. And Biostocks now points out on Serepta, a

661
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 3: welcome FDA reversal after our editorial, the agency has relented

662
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 3: to allow the new treatment for this disease. But the

663
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 3: point behind all of this is that he was fired,

664
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 3: and let's keep his in mind. He technically resigned, but

665
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 3: this went all the way up to Trump himself. RFK

666
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 3: Junior and doctor Marty mckery, the head of the FDA

667
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 3: went to bat for a name, and we're like, no,

668
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 3: he's legit, you know, and all of this, and Trump

669
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 3: was like, now, quote he said bad things against me

670
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 3: or whatever, he's got to go. And so he basically

671
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 3: after just three months in office, is forced to resign.

672
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: Let's just again really ruminate on this.

673
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 3: Is that you have a doctor, Okay, his crime is

674
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 3: what being a liberal a couple of years ago?

675
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: Who's RFK Junior am I you know? Taking crazy pills?

676
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 3: Here you have a person who genuinely was one of

677
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 3: the most credential voices speaking out against COVID mass hysteria,

678
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 3: vaccine mandates, myocart.

679
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: What else do you people possibly want?

680
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 3: Like, you have somebody with a long background of questioning

681
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 3: big pharma's influence on oncology drugs, which is his previous specialty,

682
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 3: coming into office scrutinizing a drug which again was linked

683
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 3: to a couple of debts, and then getting Rick Santorum

684
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 3: and Laura Lumer to do their dirty work and.

685
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: To fire him.

686
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 3: I mean, it's completely outrageous. Is genuinely is not only

687
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 3: character assassination but real ramifications. And look, don't we want

688
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 3: According to RFK Junior, one of the precepts of MAHA

689
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 3: is that the FDA is captured by big pharma. What

690
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 3: is more being captured by big pharma then getting a

691
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 3: guy fired for refusing for holding up the approval of

692
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 3: a drug which did not, according to their internal you know, scrutiny,

693
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 3: did not meet the standards that they want again, just

694
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 3: for pausing based on deceptive according to them, you know,

695
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 3: approval status for what they gave. Now I'm choosing my

696
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 3: words carefully because people have a lot of money and

697
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 3: I'm sure they're very liable to suit, So I'm not

698
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 3: claiming any lingerage or any of that. I'm morally pointing

699
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 3: to the fact that he came into office they had

700
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 3: a huge stock problem, Rick Santorum, and then get on

701
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 3: the case. The entire biotech lobby starts going after ven Aprosad.

702
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 3: Laura Lumer comes over the top, gets this guy fired,

703
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 3: and now the company is super happy. But beyond that,

704
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 3: the people who scrutinize and look at the FDA, even

705
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 3: a nonpartisan, are aghast at this thing because they're like,

706
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 3: this is one of the most direct big farm interventions

707
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 3: into the internal workings of the FDA. And of course

708
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 3: the FDA is captured by big farm and we're not stupid,

709
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 3: you know, in terms of the way that they pay

710
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 3: for it, if they're the revolving door. No, there's no

711
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 3: there is no denial of that. These are things that

712
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 3: have been highlighted by RFK Junior and them himself. So

713
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 3: the fact that this entire smear campaign worked against somebody

714
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 3: who's genuinely was just doing his job on this, it's.

715
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: Repulsive to me. It's genuinely disgusting.

716
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 3: Fired after just three months in office, and now what

717
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 3: do you and I know some fucking stooge is going

718
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 3: to take his place over there, or worse, somebody who's

719
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 3: not nearly as credentialed with enough of a background. Ye

720
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 3: I'm telling you he was as good as it got

721
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 3: over there, and like you could not ask for that.

722
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 3: And what's the important entire point of Maha, it's a

723
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,919
Speaker 3: big coalition. We had all these liberal moms in California

724
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 3: grutn roll up people to come into the Republican Party.

725
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 3: But that's now being used against him because he used

726
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 3: to be a lib who.

727
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: Supported universal health care? Like okay, you know is that

728
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 1: a crime now? Because ASKARFK Junior.

729
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 2: Because to Stoller's point, it's a scam. I mean, fundamentally,

730
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 2: it's a scam. And where is our k J. Where

731
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 2: is our K Junior on this? You know, he hasn't

732
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 2: spoken out again, so he didn't do anything.

733
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: I'm trying to keep an allegedly spoke up for him.

734
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 8: I don't know.

735
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 4: Well, we haven't heard of public boy. That's for sure.

736
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 2: Didn't do any different. It didn't make any difference at

737
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 2: the end of the day. I mean, listen the na

738
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 2: prisade we had him on the show. He was you know,

739
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 2: I don't think that I agree with him on everything,

740
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 2: but he was an intelligent person who was genuinely trying

741
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 2: to sort through the data on vaccines. And he's not

742
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 2: someone who's just like he's not an anti vax crank.

743
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,399
Speaker 2: He was questioning, Okay, well do you think that it's

744
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: required to have the COVID vaccine for.

745
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: Children age boys, teenage.

746
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 2: Boys where there's the highest risk factory. You know, these

747
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 2: are things that we should consider. Okay, that seems reasonable.

748
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 1: Reasonable.

749
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 4: And the thing too, to your point.

750
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 2: About like I mean, it really does expose how there

751
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 2: was just like no principle involved here whatsoever. The whole

752
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,439
Speaker 2: reason of bringing someone like the nay prisad is because

753
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 2: he did have that skepticism of like, okay, well maybe

754
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 2: not these all of these medical treatments are not for everyone.

755
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 2: That's the whole reason that he was there. And so

756
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 2: now when he's doing the thing that you literally brought

757
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 2: him in to do, it's Nope, the pharma lobbyists, they

758
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 2: get to win the day.

759
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,240
Speaker 4: And listen, I have known. I don't know about this drug.

760
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 2: I don't know whether it's not approved or not approved

761
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,439
Speaker 2: or paused or not pause or whatever. But it's very

762
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 2: clear there was a big business led ideological agenda against him.

763
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 2: And the thing that really sank him was Laura Lumer

764
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 2: digging up his old tweets where he's talking about Bernie Sanders.

765
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 2: And by the way, a lot of these tweets are

766
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 2: are of the format of like I used to be

767
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: on the left and support Bernie Sandm. I'm so disappointed

768
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 2: with the way that progressives have embraced COVID mandates, et cetera,

769
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 2: et cetera. That was what a lot of the tweets

770
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 2: that she sort of dug up to prove that he

771
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 2: was such a lefty that he couldn't and a Trump

772
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 2: Haeter that he couldn't possibly be in the administration. And

773
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: so that's what I was saying before about Look, Laura Lumer,

774
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 2: the reason she's so effective is because she acts understands

775
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: what MAGA is. It's a cult of personality, and if

776
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 2: you can convince the president that someone is insufficiently loyal,

777
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 2: then they're going to be gone.

778
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:08,399
Speaker 4: She did the same thing.

779
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 2: You know, I didn't object to this one as much

780
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 2: when she knuked the guy who was supposed to be

781
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 2: head of NASA, that was Elon's person that he wanted

782
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 2: in there, and she found some I don't know donations

783
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 2: to a couple Democrats and that was enough to get

784
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 2: him asked as well and pulled out. So, yeah, she

785
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 2: actually understands that there is no real ideology here. It

786
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 2: is a cult of personality. And if you can frame

787
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 2: something as you know MAGA or MAHA or America first

788
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 2: and find some tweet from the past where they expressed

789
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 2: any sort of like liberal values or criticism of Trump,

790
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 2: that's enough to be able to you know, to get

791
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 2: your age.

792
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 3: And I'll show you guys how this all works. From

793
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 3: the Wall Street Journal. Go ahead and put B five

794
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 3: up there on the screen. This was one of the

795
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 3: editorials just four days ago led to the ousting, helped

796
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 3: lead to the ousting of Vena. Pisad is a Bernie

797
00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 3: Sanders acolyte in Maha drag.

798
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: I mean no, he is MA.

799
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 3: The point is is that they're the people who are

800
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 3: in Maha drag because they want speedier approvals for drugs

801
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 3: that could be linked to deaths.

802
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 4: And they called him a one man death pan.

803
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: A one man death panel.

804
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 2: And they were multiple Wall Street Journal op eds about

805
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 2: the same thing.

806
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 3: Yes, by the way, yeah, quote like doctor Fauci, doctor

807
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 3: Prisad thinks he knows what's best for people. That's not

808
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 3: the government's job to make it happen, you know he

809
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 3: quote he previously said, I favor a strong regulatory state,

810
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 3: just as doctor Fauci slowed experimental HIV.

811
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the same, Like, get out of here.

812
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 3: In recent weeks, the FDA has rejected three therapies for

813
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 3: this stabilitating diseases that have shown promising clinical trials. The

814
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 3: agency was forced off the market augene therapy that can

815
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 3: slow degenerative loss of muscular functioning young boys which genetic

816
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 3: mutations behold. America's strong and arbitrary regulatory state at work,

817
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 3: not to mention though, that this treatment was costing millions

818
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 3: and of course is padding the bottom line of the

819
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 3: drug maker. This is why it is just so ridiculous,

820
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 3: because you literally could not ask for somebody better to

821
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 3: actually come in to be skeptical of this and to

822
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 3: say that he's motivated, you know, by or any of

823
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:20,919
Speaker 3: this ideology ridiculous because long before COVID, this guy has

824
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,760
Speaker 3: like a decade plus of publishing specifically how the FDA

825
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 3: is way too you know, easy with drug approval, is too.

826
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: Captured by pharma.

827
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 3: He has written some of the best skeptical analysis I've

828
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 3: ever seen on so many different drug approvals that have

829
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,760
Speaker 3: nothing to do with COVID, by the way, different screening

830
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 3: and other things which he says are captured.

831
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 1: By big money. This is the MAHA critique.

832
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 3: And I know, by the way this is true, because

833
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 3: I know a bunch of MAHA figures are disgusted by this.

834
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 3: But listen, guys, this is the movement you know that

835
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 3: you're all in right now, and the fact that very

836
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 3: few people are actually speaking out against it shows you

837
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 3: who all really runs a show? I mean, I don't

838
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 3: know good luck, because whoever takes job we all know

839
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 3: is going to be a lot more. And even if

840
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 3: they somebody who is a new Venet, somebody like that,

841
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 3: what do you learn from this?

842
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: What do you learn from this?

843
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 3: Do not piss off the Maga Rite, Big Pharma or

844
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 3: any of these other people.

845
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: It's terrible, terrible pressment.

846
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 3: And that's why I think it's such an important story,

847
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 3: the anti trust story and this one, because this is

848
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 3: how business is being done in Washington, and this is

849
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 3: about is the opposite of like drain the swamp or

850
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 3: whatever that people get. And I think this also, I'm

851
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 3: hoping this one resonates because so many of you probably

852
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 3: know him from YouTube, from this show, from you know,

853
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 3: I mean, he's been on so many different podcasts and others.

854
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 3: He's such an effective science communicator. I really could not

855
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 3: think of somebody better who you would want, you know,

856
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 3: in the job. But good luck, Congratulations Laura, Congratulations to

857
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 3: Rick sam torm I guess I'm gonna go out and

858
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 3: buy step Tera stock. Okay, you know, might as well

859
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 3: make some money if this is the country that we're

860
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 3: all going to live in. All right, let's go on

861
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 3: to tech. This is a similarly important story here. THEO

862
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 3: Vaughn recently sat down with Sam Altman a privacy and

863
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 3: AI actually fascinating.

864
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: Let's take a list.

865
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 10: What legal system do does AI have to work by?

866
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 10: Is there like a legal like we have laws like

867
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:11,760
Speaker 10: in the world, right, like in the human world.

868
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 11: Yeah, so I think we will certainly need a legal

869
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 11: or a policy framework for AI. One example that we've

870
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 11: been thinking about a lot, this is like a maybe

871
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,280
Speaker 11: not quite what you're asking. There's like a very human

872
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 11: centric version of that question. People talk about the most

873
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 11: personal shit in their lives to chatcheput. It's you know,

874
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 11: people use it young people especially, like use it as

875
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 11: a therapist, a life coach having these relationship problems, what

876
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 11: should I do? And right now, if you talk to

877
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 11: a therapist or a lawyer or a doctor about those problems,

878
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 11: there's like legal privilege for it, you know, like it's

879
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 11: there's doctor patient confidentiality, there's legal confidentiality whatever. And we

880
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 11: haven't figured that out yet for when you talk to chatchiput.

881
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 11: So if you go talk to chatchupkey about your most

882
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 11: sensitive stuff, and then there's like a lawsuit or whatever,

883
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 11: like we could be required to produce that, and I

884
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 11: think that's very screwed up. I think we should have

885
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 11: like the same concept of privacy for your conversations with

886
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 11: AI that we do with a therapist or whatever. And

887
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 11: no one had to think about that even a year ago.

888
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 11: And now I think it's this huge issue of like,

889
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 11: how are we going to treat the laws around this?

890
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 10: Would do you think there should be like kind of

891
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,839
Speaker 10: like a like a slowing things down before we move

892
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 10: there kind of, because yeah, it is kind of wild.

893
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 10: It's one of the reasons I get scared sometimes to

894
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 10: use certain AI stuff because I don't know how much

895
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 10: personal information I want to put in, because I don't

896
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 10: know who's going to have it.

897
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 11: I think we need this point addressed with submergency, and

898
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 11: you know, the policy makers I've talked to about it

899
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 11: like broadly agree. It's just it's new and how we

900
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 11: got to do it quickly? Do you talk to Chachibut?

901
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 10: I don't talk to it that much. One of the

902
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 10: main because of this I think it is is because

903
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 10: it's like I think it makes sense to not talk

904
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 10: to Jactia no, no.

905
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 11: To like really want the privacy clarity before you use it.

906
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 11: A lot like the legal clarity.

907
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's scary, and it's like, well, how long does

908
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,879
Speaker 10: it take lawmakers to come up with that? And then

909
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 10: it feels like it's moving so fast that it's it

910
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 10: doesn't even matter that. Sometimes it's like it doesn't even

911
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 10: really matter. It's like, are we even waiting for the

912
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 10: laws to be put around this, or what's going on?

913
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 10: Does it feel like it's moving too fast for you?

914
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 11: Sometimes the last few months have felt very fast. It

915
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 11: feels faster and faster, But the last few months it

916
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 11: felt very fast.

917
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. I really I'm curious what you make

918
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: of that conversation.

919
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 3: I read it two ways, because number one, I think

920
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 3: it is objectively crazy that you know, the information and

921
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 3: all or whatever you put into AI is subject to

922
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 3: subpoena or whatever from the government, all your private information,

923
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,919
Speaker 3: let's be honest. Though that's been true of Google Search

924
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 3: now for twenty years, it's not exactly.

925
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: A big change.

926
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 3: But I'm also pretty skeptical of the idea that they

927
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 3: should be like live like that their privacy or their

928
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 3: information on you should be subject to a privacy standard

929
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 3: which they themselves get to control. So I feel very

930
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 3: torn about the entire thing. Because it really just highlights

931
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 3: the story of power around this and about personal information.

932
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, because because what Sam is advocating, what.

933
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 4: Sam says, you're right to not you chest.

934
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, by the way, I'm screwed.

935
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 2: And here's what's different about chat GPT versus Google to

936
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 2: some extent, is it's being sold in part is like, oh,

937
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 2: this can be your buddy, this can be your therapist.

938
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: Really freaks me out right.

939
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 3: And there's those documented cases of people with schizo using

940
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 3: chat EPT and it gets them to do even crazier.

941
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 1: They validate their insane belief that's right.

942
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 2: And then you have, you know, with GROC, you now

943
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 2: have these what do they call them companions? You know,

944
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 2: they're really they're really pushing these two things, these bots

945
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 2: to be like an intimate part of your life, and

946
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 2: that is different than Google Search. So I think it

947
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 2: needs to be addressed. I do think there needs to

948
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: be some sort of like you know, patient client privileged

949
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 2: information kind of a situation, or even asking for legal.

950
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 4: Advice like all of that. But I'll tell you.

951
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 2: I watched, I watched this whole conversation. I think it's

952
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 2: worth watching, I thought THEO asked some very incisive and

953
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 2: interesting questions, including at one point he asked Sam Altman

954
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 2: if he was just like a charming terminator, which is like, yeah,

955
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 2: I think you kind of nailed it with that one.

956
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 2: And he asked him in another point if him and

957
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 2: his other like Peter Thiel and these other tech guys

958
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 2: are fully human or if they're like more robot than human,

959
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 2: which was you know, illicit and interesting response as well.

960
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 2: But Sam at one point spells out his sort of

961
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 2: like what he's floating as how to deal with the

962
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 2: AI revolution in which you know, many jobs, most of

963
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 2: human labor is rendered basically irrelevant, and he spells, I mean,

964
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 2: you should listen to what he has in mind. It's

965
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 2: basically like a one world government, new world order. We

966
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 2: all have, you know, these chits that we can like

967
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 2: buy and trade with each other that come out of

968
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 2: the you know, benevolence of Sam and the other tech

969
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 2: overlords who are going to allot us our certain number

970
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 2: of chits. That's what That's the sort of thing that

971
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 2: he has in mind for what the world is going

972
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 2: to look like. And he's very casual about the amount

973
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 2: of change, like he acknowledges this is going to be

974
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 2: like the world is not going to be the way

975
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 2: that it was before.

976
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 4: It's going to be completely different.

977
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 2: And then you're like how, and he's like, I don't know,

978
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 2: and you should be like that should make you very,

979
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 2: very nervous. So there's another interesting exchange where I think

980
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 2: Sam asked THEO, you know, if people could vote about

981
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 2: should the tech stop, what do you think that they

982
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 2: would vote? And THEO was like, I think they'd vote

983
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 2: to stop it, or at least pause, or at least like,

984
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 2: you know, I think he said, like put some sugar

985
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,280
Speaker 2: in the gas tank or something like slow it down.

986
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 4: And of course that is we've seen the polling.

987
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 2: Overwhelmingly, people are very uncomfortable with the pace of change

988
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 2: and the lack of any sort of thought put into

989
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 2: how this is going to completely transform humanity, human relations,

990
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 2: like the you know, the fact that we derive so

991
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 2: much of our dignity and self worth and identity from work,

992
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 2: and their idea is just to wipe that away, and

993
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 2: there's no care or thought being put into any of this. Yeah,

994
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 2: I think it's reasonable to be quite concerned about that.

995
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 2: And I don't think you will come away from this

996
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 2: conversation with Sam Altman feeling any less concerned than you

997
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 2: did going in.

998
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 3: I totally agree, especially whenever you start to link it

999
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 3: to Mark Zuckerberg's recent announcement about how super intelligence is

1000
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 3: very nearly here. Now, keep in mind this is I

1001
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 3: want to explain the business factors behind this. Mark Zuckerberg

1002
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 3: has always hated Apple. Why because Apple and the iPhone

1003
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 3: is the gateway to the Instagram and the Facebook Blue app,

1004
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 3: which means that they control and have effectively hurt their

1005
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 3: business on advertising. So he is obsessed with the idea

1006
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 3: of building the new iPhone, the new platform. That's why

1007
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,879
Speaker 3: they're going all in on those meta glasses, because they

1008
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 3: want the glasses to replace the phone, to be the

1009
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,359
Speaker 3: sole way that you interact with technology, so they can

1010
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 3: roll up the entire economic reward and take it away

1011
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 3: from the future of Apple. Keep that in mind and

1012
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 3: for why they're spending literally trillions of dollars now on

1013
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 3: super intelligence and on AI, because they want to break

1014
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 3: through and make the first piece of consumer electronics which

1015
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 3: fully is able to replace your experience with the phone.

1016
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 3: So keep all of that in mind with what he's

1017
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 3: saying here about how super intelligence is actually pretty quick

1018
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 3: and about what the future of technology is going to

1019
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 3: look like.

1020
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.

1021
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 12: I want to talk about our new effort metas Superintelligence

1022
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 12: Labs and our vision to build personal superintelligence for everyone.

1023
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 12: AI keeps accelerating, and over the past few months we've

1024
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 12: begun to see glimpses of AI systems improving themselves. So

1025
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 12: developing superintelligence is now in sight, but there's this big

1026
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 12: open question about what we should direct superintelligence towards. A

1027
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 12: lot has been written about the scientific and economic advances

1028
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 12: that AI can bring, and I'm really optimistic about this.

1029
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 12: What I think and even more meaningful impact in our

1030
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 12: lives is going to come from everyone having a personal

1031
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 12: superintelligence that helps you achieve your goals, create what you

1032
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,240
Speaker 12: want to see in the world, be a better friend,

1033
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 12: and grow to become the person that you aspire to be.

1034
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,399
Speaker 12: This vision is different from others in the industry who

1035
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,439
Speaker 12: wanted direct AI at automating all of the valuable work.

1036
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 12: At META, we believe in putting the power of superintelligence

1037
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 12: in people's hands to direct it towards what they value

1038
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 12: in their own lives. Some of this will be about

1039
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 12: improving productivity, but a lot of it may be more

1040
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 12: personal in nature. This is going to be a new

1041
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 12: era in some ways, but in others it's just a

1042
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 12: continuation of historical trends. About two hundred years ago, ninety

1043
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 12: percent of people were farmers growing food to survive. Today,

1044
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 12: fewer than two percent grow all of our food. Advances

1045
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 12: in technology have freed much of humanity to focus less

1046
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 12: on subsistence and more on the pursuits that we choose,

1047
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 12: and at each step along the way, most people have

1048
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 12: decided to use their newfound productivity to spend more time

1049
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 12: on creativity, culture, relationships, and just enjoying life. And I

1050
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 12: expect superintelligence to accelerate this trend even more so.

1051
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 3: You guys can see that we want super intelligence for

1052
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 3: everyone and we're all going to have better friends, because

1053
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 3: that's definitely been a consperence Ford. I mean, this is look,

1054
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 3: it's all out in the open. They want the metaglasses

1055
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 3: to replace the iPhone. They want the AI super intelligence

1056
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,760
Speaker 3: to become the sole way that we all interact.

1057
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 1: It's going to be minority report. That's their vision.

1058
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 3: And you know, it sounds kind of cool on until

1059
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 3: you start thinking about the economics of it, because already

1060
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 3: there's this huge debate within chat EPT about what huge

1061
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 3: free chat ept should look like, and everyone's like, guys,

1062
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 3: just copy Google and put ads in the feed, Like

1063
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 3: why don't we just And so that really raises the

1064
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,399
Speaker 3: question of, like, if you think about what quote went

1065
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 3: wrong with Google Search, If anything did go wrong, it

1066
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 3: was not just the introduction of AdWords, but about how

1067
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 3: the ranking became disaggregated from what was the best content

1068
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 3: and ultimately just came about trying to sell you as

1069
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 3: many ads as humanly possible. Obviously it's turned out to

1070
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 3: be an incredible business for all of them.

1071
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: That's basically what Facebook did too.

1072
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 3: You know, it was a bankrupt company, it made no money,

1073
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:58,359
Speaker 3: and then they were like, oh we got to put

1074
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 3: ads in the feed. Same with Instagram. I mean it

1075
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,720
Speaker 3: took forever, but they eventually turned it into a multi

1076
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 3: billion dollar business. YouTube same thing. For a lot of

1077
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 3: people who are watching this video for free, you probably

1078
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 3: had to sit there and wait, or you had to

1079
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 3: pay for YouTube premium. But that's the dystopian, corporatized future

1080
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 3: of what this all looks like. And it's actually all

1081
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,839
Speaker 3: a fight for making it so that you put all

1082
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 3: your attention and use on the device just so they

1083
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 3: can sell you either advertising or you have to pay

1084
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:26,760
Speaker 3: for the privilege of not being subjected.

1085
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, to advertising. I pay twenty dollars a month for

1086
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: chat GPT.

1087
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1088
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 4: Well, these people are terrifying. I mean they're terrifying. They

1089
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 4: are terrifying.

1090
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 2: And the idea is basically that, you know, think of

1091
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 2: how much power.

1092
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 4: They already have.

1093
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 2: If their dreams and wishes and aspirations come true, they

1094
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 2: will be basically like all powerful figures that control what

1095
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 2: we can all do on this entire planet. I mean,

1096
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 2: that's what they're aiming for if you listen to them.

1097
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 2: There's a chilling moment in that interview with Sam Altman

1098
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 2: and THEOMN where THEO makes again very incisive comment of

1099
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 2: when you look at these data centers from above, it

1100
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 2: looks like you're turning the planet into like a computer

1101
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 2: like circuit board. And Sam Olmon's like, yeah, that's that

1102
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 2: is what it's going to look like. Yes, that is

1103
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,399
Speaker 2: what we're because they are so massive. And then there's

1104
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 2: the questions too of like the resources that it takes.

1105
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 2: There's already huge burdens in terms of the water that's made,

1106
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 2: I mean, the amount of water that is needed to

1107
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 2: cool these things is like unbelievable the amount of power

1108
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 2: that's taken. And THEO asks them about that, and Sam

1109
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,320
Speaker 2: says basically like, well, we're hoping to get to phission

1110
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 2: energy and then that'll solve the problem, and we believe

1111
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 2: that AI will help us to get there, So we

1112
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 2: need to race to get to fission energy. We need

1113
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 2: to build out and consume all the resources now so

1114
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 2: that we can hope to get to fission energy to.

1115
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,399
Speaker 4: Solve the problem with the AI in the future. That's

1116
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 4: what they're betting on.

1117
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:57,919
Speaker 2: Yes, So, I mean, the whole thing is just incredibly disturbing, dystopian.

1118
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 2: The implications are on anyone, including the people who are

1119
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 2: developing its capacity to really comprehend. And we're just barreling

1120
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 2: towards it one thousand miles per hour with all of

1121
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 2: the brakes cut.

1122
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,240
Speaker 3: And another thing I want to highlight, this was flagged

1123
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:12,760
Speaker 3: to me to buy a couple of friends of mine.

1124
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 3: Let's go and put this up there on the screen,

1125
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 3: is that the behavior of these companies too is really

1126
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 3: horrible in terms of how they view American workers. So

1127
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,879
Speaker 3: this is an H one B VISA scandal that came

1128
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 3: out of Microsoft so quote, Microsoft's H one B visa

1129
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,879
Speaker 3: applications are question amid mass layoffs, so very recently they

1130
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 3: are growing pressure to account for its new H one

1131
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 3: B visa requests affecting around nine thousand employees. So what

1132
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 3: happened is is that they fired nine thousand people at

1133
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 3: two waves in May and June, affecting another eight thousand total.

1134
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 3: The company has laid off nearly sixteen thousand people in

1135
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,479
Speaker 3: total this year out of the two hundred and twenty

1136
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 3: eight thousand strong global employee base. In the weeks though

1137
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 3: that followed those layoff announcements, you began to see that

1138
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,839
Speaker 3: the company had apparently applied for some six thousand high

1139
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 3: schooled work visas or H one B since October, the

1140
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 3: current start of the fiscal year. And while that number,

1141
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:05,399
Speaker 3: what they look at is that they applied last year

1142
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:07,760
Speaker 3: for a similar number of some nine thousand, four hundred

1143
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 3: and ninety one H one B.

1144
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:10,800
Speaker 1: Visas, all of which were approved.

1145
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 3: This remember the whole H one B scandal that we

1146
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 3: covered what was it six months ago or some By

1147
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,760
Speaker 3: the way, Elon and Trump, you know, very approving of this.

1148
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 3: This demonstrates I want to see for everybody that they

1149
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 3: don't care even about the tech workers here in America.

1150
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,399
Speaker 3: They will outsource it all, use this like slave labor

1151
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 3: type system where you basically have these guys locked to

1152
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 3: a desk, you know, with these contracts fire people you

1153
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 3: know who have actual rights like labor rights here as

1154
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 3: American citizens. But this is all part of a scheme

1155
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:42,800
Speaker 3: to just roll things up to the bottom line.

1156
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 1: Microsoft has of.

1157
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 3: Course partnered with who Open AI and with chat GPT,

1158
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 3: right they The most use of AI and chat GPT

1159
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 3: apparently that I have heard of is in the Microsoft teams.

1160
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 3: A lot of our corporate listeners will understand what I'm saying,

1161
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 3: but like they use AI as part of their enterprise software.

1162
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 3: So I'm just showing people here how they do not

1163
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 3: They do not care about American workers and or labor.

1164
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 3: And now this is a global problem because they don't

1165
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 3: really care about any workers, don't care anywhere.

1166
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 4: I don't care about humanity, yes, don't.

1167
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 3: Their entire mission is just to increase his stock price,

1168
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 3: their own personal wealth and control. And so this is

1169
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 3: exactly why, by the way, we need more, you know,

1170
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 3: actual government protection for a lot of the workers who

1171
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 3: are also The irony is these are the people who

1172
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 3: are into who are actually implementing AI at an enterprise

1173
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 3: level and are being screwed over by the H one

1174
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:35,320
Speaker 3: b V'SA system.

1175
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just ridiculous.

1176
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:38,839
Speaker 2: Listen to Peter Thiel pem and Hall when he's asked

1177
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 2: whether he thinks the human.

1178
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:40,800
Speaker 4: Reefs should persist.

1179
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: I wish I'd been here for that.

1180
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:42,879
Speaker 4: That we listen to.

1181
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 2: How he Hem's and Hawes last thing, and then we'll

1182
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 2: get to Owen Jones here, who's standing by.

1183
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:49,359
Speaker 4: A CEO was.

1184
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 2: Bragging in an interview about how excited he is to

1185
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 2: fire people because of AI.

1186
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 4: To your point, Elijah cart m.

1187
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 2: Clark, a chief executive who advises other head haunchos on

1188
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 2: using AI at their companies, says CEOs are extremely excited

1189
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 2: about the opportunities AI brings. As a CEO myself, I

1190
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:10,359
Speaker 2: can tell you I'm extremely excited about it. I've laid

1191
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:14,359
Speaker 2: off employees myself because of AI. AI does not go

1192
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,359
Speaker 2: on strike, it doesn't ask for a pay raise. These

1193
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 2: things that you don't have to deal with as a CEO.

1194
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:21,359
Speaker 4: So there you go.

1195
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:23,359
Speaker 2: If you had any question in your mind about how

1196
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 2: they think about you and how they will treat you

1197
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 2: in the future.

1198
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 4: Here you go.

1199
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 2: They are thrilled to be able to fire you and

1200
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 2: make your life a living hell.

1201
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 3: There you go, all right, and then replace you, by

1202
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 3: the way, with cheap labor if they action you for

1203
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:36,840
Speaker 3: a robot. Yeah, so okay, got it. That's why we

1204
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 3: need a lot more. All right, Owen Jones standing by,

1205
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 3: Let's get to it.

1206
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 2: There are a whole bunch of interesting things happening in

1207
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,760
Speaker 2: the UK. So we brought in our friend Owen Jones,

1208
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 2: who is an author and journalist and also has a

1209
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 2: great YouTube channel to break all this down for It's

1210
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 2: great to see you, Owen.

1211
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 1: Good to see you. Great. So yeah, guys, very good.

1212
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 4: So.

1213
00:56:55,680 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 2: Keir Starmer has announced his plan to potentially wreck recognize

1214
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 2: a Palestinian state in September if there is no ceasefire.

1215
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:04,800
Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and take a listen.

1216
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 1: To that today.

1217
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 13: As part of this process towards peace, I can confirm

1218
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 13: the UK will recognize the state of Palestine by the

1219
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 13: United Nations General Assembly in September unless the Israeli government

1220
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 13: takes substantive steps to end the appalling situation in Gaza,

1221
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 13: agree to a ceasefire and commit to a long term

1222
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 13: sustainable peace, reviving the prospect of a two state solution.

1223
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 2: So Owen, what do you make of this move and

1224
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 2: how much pressure has Darmer been under?

1225
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 14: Firstly, port trigger warning on next time, before you just

1226
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 14: put Keir Starmer on. I was in quite zen place before.

1227
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 14: That is nauseating, sincere nauseating stuff. Using the inaviable rye

1228
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 14: of the Palestinian people to national self determination as what

1229
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 14: leverage as a bargaining chip. I mean, it's just gross

1230
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 14: and it makes no logical sense whatsoever.

1231
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 1: By the way, what's he arguing for here?

1232
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 14: That what you know, Britain won't recognize the state of

1233
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 14: Palestine if Israel tone found its genocide.

1234
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 7: A bit.

1235
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 14: It kissed armor at the very beginning of this genocide.

1236
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 14: He was in the opposition at the time, but was

1237
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 14: seen rightly as the Prime Minister in waiting and have

1238
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 14: huge influences opposition leader. He backed the right of Israel

1239
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 14: to impose a siege against the people of Gaza.

1240
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: He said that Israel does have that right. He's a

1241
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 1: human rights lawyer.

1242
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 14: I know what Article thirty three of the Geneva Convention,

1243
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 14: amongst other parts of international law say.

1244
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 1: He certainly does.

1245
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 14: He then tried to gaslight everyone to saying he didn't

1246
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 14: actually believe that.

1247
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:42,439
Speaker 1: That's just one example of what we're dealing with here.

1248
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 14: Britain continues to provide crucial components for the F thirty

1249
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 14: five jets, which are reigning death and destruction on the

1250
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 14: people of Gaza. Britain is refusing to propose actual proper

1251
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 14: sanctions on Israel. They did sanctions against two far right ministers,

1252
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:02,439
Speaker 14: Whi's very easy with Bezilil and watch it. It's sorry

1253
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 14: Benkevere and Smart Change. It's very easy to make them

1254
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 14: the bogeymen because rather than imposing actual sanctions on Israel,

1255
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 14: I could go on. I mean, he chose a symbolic action,

1256
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:15,439
Speaker 14: which he's and I'm not saying it's not important to

1257
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 14: recognize Palestinian right to national self determination. I'm not saying that,

1258
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 14: but just factually speaking, there isn't going to be a

1259
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 14: Palestine left to recognize, so is wiped out.

1260
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 3: My question is about where this is coming from. Is

1261
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 3: it from internal politics in the UK, Like, where does

1262
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 3: this level of pressure because as you said, yeah, we

1263
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 3: can separate the decision itself, but clearly it's a result

1264
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 3: of something not just the situation in Gaza. And it's

1265
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 3: joining France and I believe Canada as well, Yeah, which

1266
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 3: has made a similar announcement. So was this like an

1267
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 3: internal NATO discussion, what's your assessment for like where Keir

1268
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 3: Starmer is coming from in and making this announcement at

1269
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 3: this time.

1270
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 14: I mean it is partly clear that they're working in

1271
00:59:56,920 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 14: lockstep in because they for example, with the the sanctions

1272
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 14: on the too far right ministers that was done in

1273
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 14: coordination with each other. They've issued a lot of letters

1274
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 14: together European nations which are expressing the sadness and disappointment

1275
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 14: of what is Well's doing without actual any teeth. So

1276
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 14: it's definitely that he is under pressure in terms of

1277
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 14: there are two hundred plus members of Parliament wrote demanding

1278
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 14: that he recognized the state of Palestine. That has a

1279
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 14: lot to do with the mass protests we've seen in

1280
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 14: this country, huge numbers of being involved in protests. Labor

1281
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 14: lost two of Kirstarmer's main allies last year in the

1282
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 14: general election to candidates either in the Green Party or

1283
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 14: anti genocide candidates who stood making Gaza's genocide the Israel

1284
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 14: as well as genocide a key from the mental issue.

1285
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 14: We're going to talk about the new party that's just

1286
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 14: been set up. But he is under pressure, but that

1287
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 14: you know, it's not meaningful action that's been taken. All

1288
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 14: the options actually available to him, he's taken the tokenistic

1289
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 14: one and made it a bargaining chip. So it does

1290
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 14: show he's he looks flustered by the way. He does

1291
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 14: look concerned. He's he's less popular than cholera at the

1292
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 14: moment in the opinion polls.

1293
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 1: But you know, the government's falling apart.

1294
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 14: But this is tokenistic and an attempt and it's not

1295
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 14: had any impact because it's actually caused fury amongst pro

1296
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 14: Israel people who are so deranged that any acceptance of

1297
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 14: placing humanity is likely to set them off. But at

1298
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 14: the same time it obviously has caused fury amongst those

1299
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 14: who oppose the genocide for the reasons them.

1300
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 2: Yea, yeah, it's an attempt for him to not really

1301
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 2: take any side, and in doing so it was obviously

1302
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 2: not pleasing anyone. Let's talk a little bit about Corbyn

1303
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:48,560
Speaker 2: and this new party that he established. Corbin course was

1304
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:53,160
Speaker 2: kicked out of the Labor Party and interestingly seems to

1305
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 2: have a lot of support. You can break down the

1306
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 2: numbers that can put D three up on the screen.

1307
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 2: This was Corbyn's up there in the Guardian talking about

1308
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 2: why he was starting this party. The headline years this

1309
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 2: Labor government has failed. People want real transformative politics. We

1310
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 2: will give it to them and me. Just before we

1311
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 2: get to a little bit of your you just had

1312
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 2: an interview with him as well. Before we get to that,

1313
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 2: just talk a little bit about the impetus for the

1314
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 2: party and are you surprised by the level of support

1315
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 2: for it in these early days.

1316
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 14: Well, I think there's been quite a lot of pressure

1317
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 14: and Corbyn for quite a while amongst some of his

1318
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 14: allies to launch a party. In fact, he was kicked

1319
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 14: out of the Labor Party back in twenty twenty and there

1320
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 14: was a drawn out process where you know, look, he

1321
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 14: joined the Labor Party two.

1322
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 1: Decades before I was born. I'm a Jerryatric millennial.

1323
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 14: He joined the Labor Party in ninety sixty five. He's

1324
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 14: been a Labor member of parliaments in nineteen eighty three.

1325
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:45,479
Speaker 14: He's represented the same constituency all that time.

1326
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 1: The Labor Parties.

1327
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 14: You know, he's surrounded by people who he knows through

1328
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:50,920
Speaker 14: the Labor Party is a big part of his life.

1329
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 14: You know, I think it was just he didn't for

1330
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 14: a long time. He just felt, you know, that was

1331
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 14: my party and I'm going to go through the process

1332
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 14: to get readmitted.

1333
01:02:57,880 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 1: But you know, so someone wanted him to go earlier.

1334
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 14: What actually happened is he stood as an independent candidate

1335
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,440
Speaker 14: in the last general election, and in that elect you

1336
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 14: got four other anti genocide candidates got elected as independents.

1337
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 14: It's very difficult in our system to get elected as

1338
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 14: an independent.

1339
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 1: We've got first past the post here.

1340
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 14: Let you guys do a different form, but it's very difficult.

1341
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 14: There's been an incompetitive elections. Eight politicians have been elected

1342
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:24,680
Speaker 14: as independent since World War Two, five of them in

1343
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 14: the last election of one that was him. The Green

1344
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 14: Party also won four seats, positioning themselves as a left

1345
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 14: wing anti genocide party, but they also going second against

1346
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 14: behind themby thirty nine seats. I guess the sense was

1347
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 14: that now finally I think he felt well, actually, you know,

1348
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 14: there was a lot of demands coming out there. I

1349
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:45,360
Speaker 14: guess zach Planski's running to be the leader of the

1350
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 14: Green Party and is likely to win on a kind

1351
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 14: of leftist, very similar platform, and I guess there was

1352
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 14: a sense, you know, how that relationship will be interesting,

1353
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 14: But I guess there was a sense of there should

1354
01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 14: be an avowedly socialist party that exists, and.

1355
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 1: You know, this is going to.

1356
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 14: Bring together lots of the independence who got elect as

1357
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 14: politicians and the grassroots movements that exist outside which have

1358
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 14: been mobilized by the genocide, but also of course by

1359
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:14,959
Speaker 14: you know, we've had the worst greeze in living standards

1360
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 14: since the Napoleonic Age in this country. Our public services

1361
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 14: are falling apart, like a national health service, and the

1362
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 14: Labor government had very little enthusiasm to begin with. They

1363
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 14: won two thirds of seats on one third of the

1364
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 14: vote with the lowest turnout in history of British democracy,

1365
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 14: and it's been downhead all the way since. So there

1366
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 14: was a sense of there has to be an alternative

1367
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 14: because if not Nigel Farage, our Trumpian politician, he will

1368
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 14: just soak up all the disillusionment.

1369
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 1: He will win by default.

1370
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 14: He's on course to be Prime minister at this rate

1371
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 14: if you believe the polling, that would be a catastrophe clearly.

1372
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:47,440
Speaker 14: So there's a sense of there has to be something

1373
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 14: else that shifts people's anger disillusionment in the direction of

1374
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 14: taxing those who are doing very well and investing in services,

1375
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 14: public ownership, not arming genocide, rather than let's kick out

1376
01:04:58,200 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 14: all the migrants and refugees.

1377
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,040
Speaker 3: See, that's why I find fascinating about the whole thing,

1378
01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 3: and why I so much more prefer your political system

1379
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 3: because these centers can fall out and new parties can happen.

1380
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 1: You mentioned.

1381
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 3: I'm sure we disagree, but at least for me, it's

1382
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 3: fascinating to watch Reform basically replace the Conservative Party. You

1383
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:17,920
Speaker 3: mentioned their Nigel farage and then similarly also the destruction

1384
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:20,920
Speaker 3: of labor. So the two central parties are both falling

1385
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 3: apart with the creation of actually new parties where a

1386
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 3: lot of voters are flocking to. Is that kind of

1387
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 3: how you see it? Like they have destruction of the

1388
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 3: entire political establishment.

1389
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:30,720
Speaker 14: Well, our system in lots of ways, it is supposed to

1390
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 14: be quite similar to yours. Actually, I mean in that

1391
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:37,760
Speaker 14: we've basically just had a tea party system since you know,

1392
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 14: the nineteen thirties. So I mean you're right, is that

1393
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 14: what's happened to the Conservative Party, Because the Conservative Party

1394
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 14: is the most successful political party on earth in this country.

1395
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 14: It's been around since eighteen thirty two and it dominated

1396
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,280
Speaker 14: the twentieth century. So it's you know, an electoral giant

1397
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 14: which has fallen apart. And it's this phenomenon you're seeing

1398
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:02,240
Speaker 14: across the West world, which is the so called center

1399
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 14: right has basically gone into liquidation. It's either in the

1400
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 14: case of like the US, the SoCal Senate right party

1401
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:10,080
Speaker 14: gets taken over by what I would regard as the

1402
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:13,720
Speaker 14: far right. All new far right parties in Western European

1403
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 14: countries have just eclipsed the old center right parties, who

1404
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:19,880
Speaker 14: themselves then try and adopt their policies to in a

1405
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 14: game of catch up. That's what's happened here. The Conservatives

1406
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 14: now are you know, way way different. You know they'd

1407
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:28,400
Speaker 14: be they their politics are not that different fro Niger

1408
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 14: far as anyway already, but they're being eclipsed. But what's

1409
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:35,919
Speaker 14: interesting is things are so unpredictable because we've got first

1410
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 14: past that the main part is alive a lot of

1411
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 14: the time, but that's changing because of the disillusionment with them.

1412
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 14: That's already showed the cracks of reform with it, because

1413
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:51,240
Speaker 14: under our system you could end up like labor did.

1414
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 14: They got thirty three point seven percent of the vote

1415
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:54,640
Speaker 14: and they've got two thirds of the seats.

1416
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:57,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, but now if you have reform, you have a

1417
01:06:57,480 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 1: new Left.

1418
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:00,160
Speaker 14: You got to see its relationship with the Green and

1419
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:02,320
Speaker 14: then you've got the Conservatives and you've got the Liberal

1420
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:04,600
Speaker 14: Democrats who are just a waste of time but they

1421
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 14: still exist. You know, you get and then you get

1422
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 14: the Scottish National Party in Scotland they dominate the dominant

1423
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:11,880
Speaker 14: politics for a long time. And you've also got the

1424
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 14: Welsh Nationalist plied Cuonry. So things are fragmenting here and

1425
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 14: that's what gives this an opening in things that you know,

1426
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 14: because it used to be labor or conservative like it

1427
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:25,160
Speaker 14: was Democrats or Republicans with the elect making it very

1428
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 14: difficult for any of the outcome. But that is definitely changing,

1429
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 14: but it means a very unpredictable outcome because you can

1430
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,080
Speaker 14: win on a very low share of the vote. I don't

1431
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:35,840
Speaker 14: think our electoral system will survive. I suspect will end

1432
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 14: up with proportional representation because it looks it kind of

1433
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:39,360
Speaker 14: looks silly at this point.

1434
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 4: It's interesting.

1435
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:43,960
Speaker 2: You did have a sit down yesterday with Jeremy Corbyn

1436
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 2: and you asked him about Israel and Palestine, and you

1437
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 2: know how important that is to the energy that is

1438
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:52,440
Speaker 2: behind his new party. Let's go ahead and take a

1439
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 2: listen to a little bit of that.

1440
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 15: With Azol's genocide, I mean, you know, I mean, I

1441
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 15: think to myself, I mean, I don't I want to

1442
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,280
Speaker 15: phases Potpaly because don't want talk about the genesial extermination

1443
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:04,439
Speaker 15: of the Palacine Vivas. So some teachable lessons of the world.

1444
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 15: It's one of the abominations of our type. But you know,

1445
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 15: it's changed me forever, It's changed other people forever. Do

1446
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:16,200
Speaker 15: you think it has fundamentally changed politics in a way

1447
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 15: that isn't actually properly understood yet. I mean, we look

1448
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 15: about the financial crish the right call. These all had

1449
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:22,719
Speaker 15: long term from.

1450
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:25,040
Speaker 16: Brought out the human and a lot of people that

1451
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:29,600
Speaker 16: didn't come out before the previous genocide. You think Cambodia,

1452
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 16: you think Rwanda, you think da for you think Second

1453
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 16: World War. All those those genocides were not on live

1454
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:39,120
Speaker 16: television in the way that this one is.

1455
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 8: Yes, they were.

1456
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 16: In the case of particularly Rwanda, there were there was

1457
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 16: quite a lot of television coverage, but not the extent

1458
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 16: we get now, we now get this live coverage. I

1459
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:50,240
Speaker 16: don't know about you.

1460
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:51,400
Speaker 8: I watch.

1461
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:56,120
Speaker 16: Lots of different international channels, usually late at night, sort

1462
01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 16: of Al Jazeera of France twenty four and so on.

1463
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 16: Even I find it hard to look at it when

1464
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:07,720
Speaker 16: you see a mother with a baby. She's so emaciated

1465
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 16: and hungry and dehydrated, she can't create enough milk in

1466
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:14,719
Speaker 16: herself to feed her baby, and she's got this wailing,

1467
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:18,719
Speaker 16: crying baby who's clearly near to death. So you're watching

1468
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:23,639
Speaker 16: lives and what it's gaza is quite small, probably ten

1469
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:28,400
Speaker 16: kilometers away inside of East London. There's water, there's milk,

1470
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:31,679
Speaker 16: as food, does everything that that baby needs. And it's

1471
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:35,080
Speaker 16: been deliberately dumb by the state of Israel and by

1472
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 16: the idea in place SI.

1473
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 4: And so on.

1474
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:39,599
Speaker 2: I'm actually curious for your answer to your own question,

1475
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:42,559
Speaker 2: because I become increasingly convinced that I don't think the

1476
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 2: politicians here get it yet. But Israel Palestine is becoming

1477
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:49,560
Speaker 2: the central dividing line, certainly within the Democratic Party, but

1478
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:52,760
Speaker 2: I think more broadly within American politics, because it's such

1479
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:55,519
Speaker 2: a moral red line. Do you support or proposed genocide?

1480
01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:57,519
Speaker 2: And if you're on the wrong side of that, then

1481
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:00,400
Speaker 2: I really have no use for you on anything else.

1482
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:03,800
Speaker 2: And so I'm curious if there's a similar sense in

1483
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:06,360
Speaker 2: the UK of this issue of becoming increasingly central.

1484
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 1: I think it's totemic. I think you're absolutely right.

1485
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:11,840
Speaker 14: I don't think the consequences will be properly understood for

1486
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:14,519
Speaker 14: a very long time. Actually, I think it's like a

1487
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 14: you know, a massive rupture in terms of what came before.

1488
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 14: It has politicized large numbers of people who weren't particularly

1489
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:29,240
Speaker 14: political before. I think people seeing because of because of

1490
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:31,160
Speaker 14: the work of palacing in journalsy being slaughtered in the

1491
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:35,560
Speaker 14: biggest butchery, journalists in human history, the word and technology

1492
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 14: that they can, as Jeremy Corbyn spoke about, there can

1493
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:40,759
Speaker 14: broadcast their own extermination to the world. The gap between

1494
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 14: what people can see and hear and read what politicians

1495
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:47,960
Speaker 14: are saying and what media out mainstream media outlets are

1496
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:52,200
Speaker 14: saying is so incredibly vast that I think it's led

1497
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 14: people to think, if they're not telling me the truth

1498
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 14: about this, or if they're reporting this like that, what

1499
01:10:59,880 --> 01:11:00,800
Speaker 14: else is going on?

1500
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:03,439
Speaker 1: So I think it's become totemic. I think it has.

1501
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:04,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it really has.

1502
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 14: I speak to people, you know, to speak to a

1503
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:08,479
Speaker 14: lot of people about this, and they feel the same.

1504
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:11,560
Speaker 14: You know, I feel changed by it, completely transformed by it.

1505
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:14,120
Speaker 14: I think lots of people feel transformed by it. I

1506
01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:16,720
Speaker 14: think there's that sense of it's kind of that like

1507
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 14: legitimacy to rule that if there are just certain red

1508
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:25,280
Speaker 14: lines that if you are complicit in a genocide, you

1509
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 14: have lost any legitimacy, You have lost moral legitimacy, you

1510
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:32,599
Speaker 14: have lost political legitimacy, and nothing you can ever say

1511
01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:34,519
Speaker 14: or do again can.

1512
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:35,160
Speaker 1: Scrub that away.

1513
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:37,479
Speaker 14: And I think that has consequences because I think it

1514
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:40,640
Speaker 14: leads people to have when you've got that level of

1515
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:42,479
Speaker 14: moral clarity, there's lots of things in life. I look

1516
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:44,439
Speaker 14: back at it, Well, you know, you're not always entirely

1517
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 14: sure about sort of thing. When you're so sure about

1518
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:51,400
Speaker 14: something so evil and extreme and deprave and shameless and

1519
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:54,680
Speaker 14: all apologetic and confess to and then I think it

1520
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:56,640
Speaker 14: gives you this toughness that a lot of people have

1521
01:11:56,680 --> 01:11:59,559
Speaker 14: developed to think to just think to themselves, we've got

1522
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 14: to sweep this establishment away. There's no going back, there's

1523
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 14: no going back to a.

1524
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:07,360
Speaker 1: Time.

1525
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:11,479
Speaker 14: And I think that will have devastating political consequences. People

1526
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:13,760
Speaker 14: in thirty years will look back and say this is

1527
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:15,559
Speaker 14: the moment that changed them and made them.

1528
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 1: You know, people talk about the Iraq w all like that.

1529
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 1: I thought to people at the.

1530
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 14: Fact, you know, and people talk about that, there's something

1531
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:22,000
Speaker 14: so viscul about this.

1532
01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:24,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, so stop, yeah, interesting.

1533
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 4: I agree with you.

1534
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:26,760
Speaker 1: I think it will change politics forever.

1535
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1536
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 2: Great to see you, and we hope to have you

1537
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 2: back again soon.

1538
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:36,240
Speaker 1: Thanks man, appreciate cheers. Guys.

1539
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:40,599
Speaker 2: So we have a few other important developments with regard

1540
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:44,200
Speaker 2: to Israel in particular, this was kind of an extraordinary moment.

1541
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:47,040
Speaker 2: John Mirherschreimer, a professor we've obviously had him on this show,

1542
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 2: very well known, sat down with Tucker Carlson and explained why,

1543
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 2: in his view, what Israel was doing in Gaza is

1544
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:55,600
Speaker 2: clearly a genocide.

1545
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:56,640
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to that.

1546
01:12:56,880 --> 01:13:00,240
Speaker 8: And this is a large part because of Israel, and

1547
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 8: this is just a strategic dimension. We're not even talking

1548
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:07,200
Speaker 8: about the moral dimension. I mean, the Israelites are executing

1549
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:11,400
Speaker 8: a genocide in Gaza, and we are complicitous in that genocide.

1550
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 8: When you say it's a genocide, what do you mean well,

1551
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:18,519
Speaker 8: if you look at what the definition of a genocide is, right,

1552
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:24,519
Speaker 8: it's where one country tries to destroy either all or

1553
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 8: a substantial portion of another group, another ethnic, or religious

1554
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 8: or national group, for the purposes of basically destroying that

1555
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 8: group identity. That's what you're talking about here. I think

1556
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:49,240
Speaker 8: that that's the definition of genocide. It's laid out in

1557
01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:55,880
Speaker 8: the nineteen forty eight convention. They're trying to destroy Palestinian

1558
01:13:56,240 --> 01:14:01,400
Speaker 8: national identity in addition to murdering huge number of Palestinians.

1559
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:04,559
Speaker 8: I mean, it's not just a rage reflex. This is

1560
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:05,240
Speaker 8: a strategy.

1561
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:07,599
Speaker 1: Of course, at two and a half years later, almost

1562
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:11,599
Speaker 1: three years later, what is the strategy, what's the goal

1563
01:14:12,160 --> 01:14:12,439
Speaker 1: of this?

1564
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:18,880
Speaker 8: My view on this is that the Israelis have long

1565
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:24,840
Speaker 8: been interested in expelling the Palestinian population from Greater Israel.

1566
01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 8: If you look at greater Israel, this employed includes the

1567
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 8: Israel that was created in nineteen forty eight and the

1568
01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 8: occupied plus the occupied territories. This is the West Bank

1569
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:39,799
Speaker 8: Post sixty seven, Post sixty seven, West Bank and Gaza,

1570
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 8: so West west Bank, Gaza and what we call green

1571
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:48,000
Speaker 8: Line Israel, that's Greater Israel. Inside Greater Israel, there are

1572
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 8: about seven point three million Jews and about seven point

1573
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:57,759
Speaker 8: three million Palestinians. And from the get go, going back

1574
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:03,120
Speaker 8: to the early days Zionism and the views of people

1575
01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:08,080
Speaker 8: like David Ben Gurion, they believe that you needed a

1576
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:12,360
Speaker 8: Jewish state that was about eighty percent Jewish and twenty

1577
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:15,439
Speaker 8: percent Palestinian. In an ideal world you would get rid

1578
01:15:15,479 --> 01:15:19,760
Speaker 8: of all the Palestinians. But the least bad alternative is

1579
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,960
Speaker 8: eighty twenty. But you actually have a situation in Greater Israel,

1580
01:15:23,080 --> 01:15:26,680
Speaker 8: you have fifty to fifty. So October seventh happens, and

1581
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:30,639
Speaker 8: what the Israelis see is an excellent opportunity for ethnic cleansing.

1582
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:33,800
Speaker 8: And they make this clear. In other words, it's an

1583
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:37,839
Speaker 8: excellent opportunity to go to war in Gaza and drive

1584
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:42,920
Speaker 8: the Palestinians out of Gaza and solve that demographic problem

1585
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:46,360
Speaker 8: that they face. That's such a dark thing.

1586
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:49,759
Speaker 1: And therefore that's a very strong allegation. On what basis

1587
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:50,479
Speaker 1: are you making out?

1588
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 8: Oh, there's just a huge amount of data that supports

1589
01:15:56,120 --> 01:16:01,640
Speaker 8: this in the Israeli press that they have been perfectly

1590
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:04,120
Speaker 8: willing to make this argument loudly and clearly.

1591
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 2: So Sager, I'm curious your reflection on the import of

1592
01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:10,960
Speaker 2: that moment given how important Tucker is on the right.

1593
01:16:11,120 --> 01:16:14,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's obviously very very important for the right,

1594
01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:16,640
Speaker 3: just because you have Marjorie Taylor Green, you have Tucker Carlson. Now,

1595
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 3: by the way, the email that was the title of

1596
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:21,840
Speaker 3: the episode that went out to Tucker Carlson subscribers was

1597
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:25,400
Speaker 3: titled genocide. And so I think it's important for displaying

1598
01:16:25,479 --> 01:16:28,679
Speaker 3: where there's all of this talk about support for Israel

1599
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:31,599
Speaker 3: and how MAGA supports Trump no matter what. Fine, that's

1600
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:34,880
Speaker 3: only thirty percent of the country. Disapproval for actually approval

1601
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:38,240
Speaker 3: for Israeli military action today stands at a whopping thirty

1602
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:40,720
Speaker 3: two percent, which means you have seventy percent of the

1603
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:43,280
Speaker 3: American public. So that means if you look at it,

1604
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:46,400
Speaker 3: you know, objectively, that's the vast majority of Democrats and

1605
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:50,720
Speaker 3: about half of Republican voters. Now self identified Republicans may

1606
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:52,680
Speaker 3: have some seventy one percent, but I'm talking about the

1607
01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:55,559
Speaker 3: independence many of you who could in vote for Donald Trump.

1608
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:58,080
Speaker 3: So it's pretty obvious you know where this comes in

1609
01:16:58,160 --> 01:17:00,720
Speaker 3: terms of its mainstream view. But more importantly, I think

1610
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 3: it highlights where you have both the youth Republican vote.

1611
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:06,639
Speaker 1: The way that they're going.

1612
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:09,880
Speaker 3: You have politicians like Marjorie Taylor Green and others really

1613
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:12,559
Speaker 3: putting themselves out there for I mean, you and I

1614
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:14,560
Speaker 3: both know like the amount of pushback.

1615
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:16,040
Speaker 1: That they're going to get on that episode. Yeah, it's

1616
01:17:16,080 --> 01:17:17,720
Speaker 1: going to be unbelievable.

1617
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:21,840
Speaker 3: And it shows the dichotomy between the current administration and

1618
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:25,000
Speaker 3: where at least a decent number of his supporters or

1619
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:28,040
Speaker 3: people who did vote for him are now falling apart.

1620
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:28,559
Speaker 1: Within the coalition.

1621
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:31,760
Speaker 2: I mean, on the Democratic side, the number that supports

1622
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 2: what Israel's doing is eight percent, right.

1623
01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:35,639
Speaker 4: Exactly eight percent.

1624
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:38,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, but ninety percent of senators, yeah, exactly.

1625
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:39,320
Speaker 4: Yes, we'll get to that.

1626
01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 2: We'll talk about where the Senate Democrats are at this point,

1627
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:43,400
Speaker 2: because we have some numbers with.

1628
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:43,960
Speaker 4: Regard to that.

1629
01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:46,320
Speaker 2: But you know, according to New York City voters, you

1630
01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:49,000
Speaker 2: had some roughly eighty percent who said, yeah, it's a

1631
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:51,760
Speaker 2: geen side. You had another sixty plus for signing sixty three,

1632
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:53,559
Speaker 2: sixty four percent something like that who were like, if

1633
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:55,560
Speaker 2: Phoebe nan Yaho comes to New York City, yes he

1634
01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:57,559
Speaker 2: should be arrested because he's a war criminal. Like that's

1635
01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:00,839
Speaker 2: where the base of the Democratic Party is are largely

1636
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:03,839
Speaker 2: in line with that. Republicans are more supportive of Israel.

1637
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 2: But yes, if you look at younger Republicans there is

1638
01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:09,560
Speaker 2: a shift, and just very quickly on the term genocide.

1639
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:11,200
Speaker 4: And why I think it's.

1640
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:14,600
Speaker 2: Important to assert to use this word and assert what

1641
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:17,679
Speaker 2: it is. It's because it comes with a moral weight

1642
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:22,200
Speaker 2: and responsibility. If you are a United States senator and

1643
01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:26,000
Speaker 2: you admit Israel is committing a genocide, how can you

1644
01:18:26,120 --> 01:18:29,840
Speaker 2: justify sending any weapons? How can you justify you know

1645
01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:32,800
Speaker 2: you are in this position of power. How can you

1646
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:37,800
Speaker 2: justify not doing all that you possibly can given that

1647
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:40,479
Speaker 2: this is our ally who we've been supporting and aiding

1648
01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:42,160
Speaker 2: and a betting in this gen side. How can you

1649
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:45,519
Speaker 2: live with yourself if you aren't doing everything you can

1650
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:48,000
Speaker 2: to stop the flow of arms and to cut off

1651
01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:50,719
Speaker 2: the support and to end the genocide. And that's why,

1652
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:54,360
Speaker 2: to me, the word is important because for people, it

1653
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:57,840
Speaker 2: carries a certain amount of history with it and a

1654
01:18:57,840 --> 01:18:59,880
Speaker 2: certain level of moral weight.

1655
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:01,920
Speaker 1: I actually disagree with it. I'm sure I'm gonna get

1656
01:19:01,920 --> 01:19:02,519
Speaker 1: cooked for this one.

1657
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:04,960
Speaker 3: I already know, but I agree with Bernie Sanders who

1658
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:07,320
Speaker 3: said it quote it's a legal term. And the reason

1659
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:09,559
Speaker 3: why is. Look, I mean, I think my view is,

1660
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:11,400
Speaker 3: I know it's going to be unpopular with much of

1661
01:19:11,439 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 3: our left wing audience on this.

1662
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:16,400
Speaker 4: But I mean, apparently in John Mererscheimer, that's fine.

1663
01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I disagree with John whatever we had him

1664
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:20,880
Speaker 3: on here too, because I don't accept the precept of

1665
01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:23,679
Speaker 3: international law. There's no such thing as international law. There's

1666
01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:26,720
Speaker 3: no such thing as illegal invasions. Genocide itself was a

1667
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:28,920
Speaker 3: term that was literally made up in the post World

1668
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:31,920
Speaker 3: War two era and enshrined in so called international law.

1669
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:33,040
Speaker 1: Every time the term has been.

1670
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:35,720
Speaker 3: Used is actually been used as a justification for the

1671
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:38,559
Speaker 3: US Empire to go abroad in search of monsters to

1672
01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:41,840
Speaker 3: destroy it. Serbia was a genocide Kosovo geneside.

1673
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:43,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know.

1674
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:45,479
Speaker 4: This is a reason to pull back, right, but.

1675
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:48,679
Speaker 3: Let's consider let's consider the weight of that term, because

1676
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:51,760
Speaker 3: then we have l Ewisel's son on national television saying

1677
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 3: that Iranians want genocide and that's why we need to

1678
01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 3: go into bomb them.

1679
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:56,800
Speaker 1: So the natural result of.

1680
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:59,599
Speaker 2: The term, because somebody uses the term correctly, doesn't mean

1681
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 2: that we shoul and also use the term correct The.

1682
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:02,240
Speaker 1: Reason it applies, Okay.

1683
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:05,720
Speaker 3: But the reason why I reject again the entire framework

1684
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 3: of all of these, like post World War two internationally

1685
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:12,599
Speaker 3: law made up humanitarian ways, is because most of them

1686
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:16,880
Speaker 3: are used for justifications. Actually, I can't think of a

1687
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:20,280
Speaker 3: single instance in which it was not used to justify

1688
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:24,519
Speaker 3: dramatic US intervention. And also if it was, would it

1689
01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:27,000
Speaker 3: not then be a reason like would you sit here

1690
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:28,599
Speaker 3: and say the US bomb Israel?

1691
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:28,840
Speaker 4: Don't?

1692
01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:29,960
Speaker 1: I don't think that.

1693
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:31,559
Speaker 4: You don't think that the word should exist?

1694
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:33,680
Speaker 1: Well, no, I'm saying I don't don't think it.

1695
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:36,760
Speaker 4: I mean because it is well its meaning, But no,

1696
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:38,880
Speaker 4: it doesn't meet the definition.

1697
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:41,120
Speaker 3: It's a made up word from the post World War

1698
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:43,519
Speaker 3: two Neuremberg errors, which is why I don't.

1699
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:45,280
Speaker 4: Use You just don't think it's a word that should exist.

1700
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:45,920
Speaker 1: No, I don't think.

1701
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:46,920
Speaker 4: I don't think it's the thing.

1702
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:48,760
Speaker 1: What's wrong with ethnic cleansing and mass murder.

1703
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:51,799
Speaker 3: These are all like value neutral terms, which have again

1704
01:20:51,880 --> 01:20:54,200
Speaker 3: a much longer standing of definition society.

1705
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:57,080
Speaker 2: That if people have accepted this as a word that

1706
01:20:57,120 --> 01:20:59,360
Speaker 2: has a certain definises what you want and comes with

1707
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:03,120
Speaker 2: certain more weight and responsibility, that's exactly why. And that's

1708
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:06,719
Speaker 2: but in this instance, you have to acknowledge it meets

1709
01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 2: the definition. It is important to have that moral weight

1710
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:13,080
Speaker 2: and responsibility, and we are us being complicit in it

1711
01:21:13,080 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 2: means that we by ending our support for that like

1712
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:19,439
Speaker 2: that is an incredible moral and strategic imperative, which is

1713
01:21:19,439 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 2: what Meerscheimer.

1714
01:21:20,600 --> 01:21:22,800
Speaker 3: Here's the problem, and this is very intellectual, so I

1715
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:24,479
Speaker 3: want everybody to stick with me. The use of the

1716
01:21:24,479 --> 01:21:27,680
Speaker 3: word genocide is a key part of the quote responsibility

1717
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:30,920
Speaker 3: to protect doctrine, which was invented under the post World

1718
01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:34,040
Speaker 3: War two and unipolar moment, through which the precept is

1719
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:35,800
Speaker 3: that This is why the United States never called the

1720
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 3: Rwandan genocide a genocide is because it would mean the

1721
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:41,800
Speaker 3: United States armed forces should go abroad and to stop it.

1722
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:43,920
Speaker 3: I don't believe that or accept that at all. I

1723
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:46,599
Speaker 3: don't accept that mass murder is a reason for the US.

1724
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:49,040
Speaker 4: To define the truth. We got to get to our guests.

1725
01:21:49,200 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 2: But I just want to be clear about your physician,

1726
01:21:51,479 --> 01:21:54,519
Speaker 2: no matter what happens, you wouldn't call it a genocide

1727
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:56,519
Speaker 2: because you just don't believe in that term.

1728
01:21:56,600 --> 01:21:58,920
Speaker 1: I don't believe in the term, and especially the way

1729
01:21:58,960 --> 01:21:59,799
Speaker 1: they'll just use.

1730
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:02,960
Speaker 2: Litter nuked and murdered all two million Palestinians.

1731
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:04,920
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm just asking. You didn't suggest for the

1732
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:05,840
Speaker 4: use of the term at all.

1733
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:09,759
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And this is why I think it's key because

1734
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:12,840
Speaker 3: in its post World War two invention, it is used

1735
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:17,639
Speaker 3: as a device to justify US armed intervention abroad. Whether

1736
01:22:17,680 --> 01:22:20,679
Speaker 3: it's ethnic cleansing or whether it's ethnic cleansing or genocide,

1737
01:22:20,680 --> 01:22:22,960
Speaker 3: mass murder, it's all bad. No, I mean, I don't

1738
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:25,720
Speaker 3: know why. This is why these leftist semantic games are

1739
01:22:25,800 --> 01:22:28,040
Speaker 3: ridiculous to me, Like people are tacking. He's out there

1740
01:22:28,040 --> 01:22:28,519
Speaker 3: playing life.

1741
01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:29,360
Speaker 1: No, it's okay.

1742
01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:32,120
Speaker 3: Is Bernie Sanders not immediately under attack right now? I'm

1743
01:22:32,120 --> 01:22:34,000
Speaker 3: not saying that we're genocide should be, but that's so

1744
01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:37,320
Speaker 3: should I'm sorry. He is the leading person trying to

1745
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:40,679
Speaker 3: stop offensive weapons Israel, and apparently that's not enough because

1746
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:41,960
Speaker 3: he doesn't use the right language.

1747
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:43,880
Speaker 2: You can this is just that's not true, Stogar, Like

1748
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:45,680
Speaker 2: you can give him credit for what he's doing, as

1749
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:47,880
Speaker 2: I'm about to do, and also say no, it does

1750
01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:51,360
Speaker 2: matter that use that language because it does have a

1751
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:53,040
Speaker 2: certain meaning.

1752
01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:55,360
Speaker 4: Me means what has a historical context.

1753
01:22:55,400 --> 01:22:57,800
Speaker 2: And I would say here because our country and our

1754
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:01,719
Speaker 2: tax dollars and our to bipartisan residents have been actively

1755
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:02,920
Speaker 2: involved in aiding.

1756
01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:03,200
Speaker 4: Em betting that.

1757
01:23:03,640 --> 01:23:06,040
Speaker 2: Yes, of course we have a responsibility to protect because

1758
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:07,920
Speaker 2: we're the ones who did the thing in the version place.

1759
01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:10,000
Speaker 3: See, these are very important words, and I think we

1760
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:12,080
Speaker 3: should get clear about the definition here. It's like, do

1761
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:14,040
Speaker 3: you think then that the US should use it's armed

1762
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:17,280
Speaker 3: military to stop Israeli action? Like not just ending support

1763
01:23:17,439 --> 01:23:19,160
Speaker 3: to the United States, so we should bomb Israel?

1764
01:23:19,200 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think that at all.

1765
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:23,840
Speaker 2: I saw both. That is not necessary. I agree to

1766
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:26,840
Speaker 2: do what they're doing without our support.

1767
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:29,360
Speaker 1: But it's a hypothetical and a moral it's a moral contract.

1768
01:23:29,439 --> 01:23:33,200
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, in a hypothetical situation if they don't, if

1769
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:36,360
Speaker 2: we pull our support and we pull our diplomatic support

1770
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:38,920
Speaker 2: and we sanction them, and we do all the things,

1771
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:41,680
Speaker 2: and they're still genociding Palestinians, do I think that we

1772
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:44,960
Speaker 2: should invade military and so, yes, yesterday.

1773
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:47,360
Speaker 1: I completely disagree with that. I don't think we.

1774
01:23:47,400 --> 01:23:51,480
Speaker 4: Are the ones we created this situation. I responsibility.

1775
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:53,080
Speaker 1: Okay, what about the Armenian genocide?

1776
01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:55,000
Speaker 3: Right? I mean back in nineteen fifteen, Like, should the

1777
01:23:55,040 --> 01:23:57,640
Speaker 3: United States have deployed US No, absolutely not. And by

1778
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:01,600
Speaker 3: the way, it's horrible, but we're un talking about.

1779
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:03,880
Speaker 2: You wouldn't always use the US military doesn't mean that

1780
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:07,640
Speaker 2: you throw it out in all circumstances. I mean we created,

1781
01:24:07,920 --> 01:24:10,280
Speaker 2: we are aiding and abatting this genocide. Yes, we have

1782
01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:13,040
Speaker 2: a responsibility. Yes, the language matters because it has a

1783
01:24:13,160 --> 01:24:15,799
Speaker 2: historical context and he has a moral weight, and it dictates,

1784
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:19,479
Speaker 2: it puts a responsibility. Saw That's why Alyssa Slotkin wants

1785
01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:21,439
Speaker 2: to wheeze a lound of this sort of language because

1786
01:24:21,479 --> 01:24:26,080
Speaker 2: she knows it confers on her a responsibility. And that's

1787
01:24:26,120 --> 01:24:29,160
Speaker 2: why I think it's important for accountability. But I do

1788
01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:31,240
Speaker 2: want to get to the vote because.

1789
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:31,800
Speaker 4: This is important.

1790
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:35,679
Speaker 2: Burnie, to your point, to his credit, forced to vote

1791
01:24:35,720 --> 01:24:38,240
Speaker 2: on blocking It was two separate votes on blocking some

1792
01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:41,439
Speaker 2: offensive weapons to Israel. We can put this up on

1793
01:24:41,479 --> 01:24:43,559
Speaker 2: the screen, you know, you can sort of look at

1794
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:47,519
Speaker 2: this two different ways. Record high number of Democratic Senators

1795
01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:50,200
Speaker 2: majority of the caucus, twenty seven voted for one of

1796
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:52,400
Speaker 2: those resolutions. You can see their names up here on

1797
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:55,800
Speaker 2: the screen. You know, to have a majority of Democrats

1798
01:24:55,880 --> 01:24:58,680
Speaker 2: vote for this is a major sea change. You know,

1799
01:24:59,120 --> 01:25:02,560
Speaker 2: it's a major sh The other resolution, which was specifically

1800
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:04,519
Speaker 2: about one thousand pound bombs. This one was I believe

1801
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:07,240
Speaker 2: about assault rifles, did not have quite as high support.

1802
01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:10,280
Speaker 2: But you even had Jean Shaheen, who I believe is

1803
01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:14,240
Speaker 2: the ranking member on the Foreign on Foreign Relations Committee,

1804
01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:17,439
Speaker 2: So very significant here. You'll recall we mentioned Alissa's lockin

1805
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:20,479
Speaker 2: in our interview with her. You and I both asked

1806
01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:24,519
Speaker 2: her specifically about whether she would end her support for

1807
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:28,200
Speaker 2: offensive or defensive aid to Israel.

1808
01:25:28,520 --> 01:25:30,400
Speaker 4: Very slippery in her answer. Let's take a listen.

1809
01:25:30,680 --> 01:25:33,360
Speaker 2: Will you cut off aid to Israel so long as

1810
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:35,280
Speaker 2: they're committing crimes against humanity?

1811
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:40,640
Speaker 17: There is a difference between a weapon to protect a

1812
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:45,519
Speaker 17: country from incoming missiles versus other type. Offensive and defensive

1813
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:46,920
Speaker 17: weapons are different.

1814
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:48,639
Speaker 1: So would just support offensive weapons?

1815
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:48,840
Speaker 7: Man?

1816
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:49,080
Speaker 6: Like?

1817
01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:51,559
Speaker 1: Would you stop by any offensive aid to Israel?

1818
01:25:51,840 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 4: That certainly to me would be a place to look.

1819
01:25:55,120 --> 01:25:57,679
Speaker 17: But I'm not going to cut off a blanket next,

1820
01:25:57,720 --> 01:25:59,360
Speaker 17: say on a defensive weapon.

1821
01:25:59,479 --> 01:26:03,559
Speaker 2: Also, she says it would be a place to look. Well,

1822
01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:06,840
Speaker 2: lo and behold, she wasn't there. She didn't vote on it,

1823
01:26:07,080 --> 01:26:11,560
Speaker 2: didn't vote for the resolution to block offensive weapons. Apparently

1824
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:13,439
Speaker 2: I can put this up on the screen. She was

1825
01:26:13,479 --> 01:26:17,720
Speaker 2: recording an episode of The Late Show with Stephen Colbert.

1826
01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:21,640
Speaker 2: So you know, she, I think, tried to express a

1827
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:24,040
Speaker 2: lot of concern for what was going on in Gaza

1828
01:26:24,479 --> 01:26:26,920
Speaker 2: when she was here with us, but when it came

1829
01:26:27,000 --> 01:26:29,240
Speaker 2: down to using her power as a senator and a

1830
01:26:29,320 --> 01:26:31,800
Speaker 2: vote that was actually taken on the floor, she was

1831
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:33,880
Speaker 2: not there to vote either way.

1832
01:26:33,920 --> 01:26:36,680
Speaker 3: Actually yeah, okay, so but there you go. I got

1833
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:39,000
Speaker 3: a little bit of our answer. I do think that

1834
01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:42,320
Speaker 3: is indeed interesting. We also had this interesting moment from

1835
01:26:42,320 --> 01:26:45,160
Speaker 3: the Israeli Ambassador to the UN on Piers Morgan.

1836
01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:46,000
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.

1837
01:26:46,280 --> 01:26:48,840
Speaker 18: You say that one child the New York Times put

1838
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:52,200
Speaker 18: on the front page wasn't starving. He clearly was starving.

1839
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:54,920
Speaker 18: He just had other medical issues going on as well.

1840
01:26:55,000 --> 01:26:57,599
Speaker 18: But there are many many images coming out of Gaza

1841
01:26:57,680 --> 01:26:59,160
Speaker 18: of starving children.

1842
01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:00,760
Speaker 1: He miss up.

1843
01:27:01,160 --> 01:27:03,479
Speaker 18: And if you really, if you really believe it's not

1844
01:27:03,600 --> 01:27:06,479
Speaker 18: happening and all of this is a blood libel, then

1845
01:27:06,520 --> 01:27:09,280
Speaker 18: again I've had this conversation with you before. You should

1846
01:27:09,280 --> 01:27:13,040
Speaker 18: be pressurizing your Prime minister to allow international media to

1847
01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:16,439
Speaker 18: go into Gaza to verify exactly what is happening. You

1848
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:19,639
Speaker 18: don't want journalists to go in there because what they're

1849
01:27:19,640 --> 01:27:23,560
Speaker 18: going to uncover and report to the world is utterly horrifying.

1850
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:27,080
Speaker 18: You have destroyed two thirds, if not more. Now of

1851
01:27:27,080 --> 01:27:29,800
Speaker 18: the Gaza strip. Tell me you.

1852
01:27:29,800 --> 01:27:31,639
Speaker 12: Spoke about the New York Times picture.

1853
01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:34,679
Speaker 1: Let's speak about that for a minute. That was blood libel.

1854
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:36,360
Speaker 1: When you put a picture.

1855
01:27:36,280 --> 01:27:39,680
Speaker 4: Of a sif Palestinian boy where the disease and you

1856
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:41,040
Speaker 4: claim that he was starving.

1857
01:27:41,320 --> 01:27:41,960
Speaker 5: That was a lie.

1858
01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:46,439
Speaker 18: I said, the other children were starving. I said, you

1859
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:47,479
Speaker 18: denied this boy.

1860
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:50,680
Speaker 1: Now you said that this boy was ortho starving. You

1861
01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:51,680
Speaker 1: want to rewind it to me?

1862
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:55,040
Speaker 18: The boy is clearly with the boy is clearly the

1863
01:27:55,120 --> 01:28:00,880
Speaker 18: boy was clearly the boy was clearly emaciated, ambassador, clearly emaciated.

1864
01:28:01,439 --> 01:28:03,480
Speaker 1: So, yes, he has a medical condition.

1865
01:28:03,479 --> 01:28:06,920
Speaker 18: But also he's dirty, not eighteen right, No, that's why

1866
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:08,639
Speaker 18: deny what we sleep with their own eyes.

1867
01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:12,520
Speaker 3: So all of this is about a New York Times controversy.

1868
01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:14,800
Speaker 3: Let's put E five please up on the screen. So

1869
01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:17,800
Speaker 3: this was a photo that was on the front page

1870
01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:19,120
Speaker 3: of the New York Times and was kind of the

1871
01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:22,760
Speaker 3: centerpiece of a story that said Gazin's are dying of starvation.

1872
01:28:23,400 --> 01:28:27,519
Speaker 3: Now query quickly Israeli officials and others were infuriated because

1873
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:31,600
Speaker 3: their justification for the emaciation of this young child is

1874
01:28:31,640 --> 01:28:34,120
Speaker 3: that he suffers from other medical conditions, which led The

1875
01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:37,080
Speaker 3: New York Times to publish a not a correction per se.

1876
01:28:37,080 --> 01:28:38,880
Speaker 3: It's more of an editor's note. Let's put that one

1877
01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:41,639
Speaker 3: up there on the screen. It says children in Gaza

1878
01:28:41,680 --> 01:28:44,559
Speaker 3: are now nurse and starving. We recently ran a story

1879
01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:48,240
Speaker 3: about Gaza's most vulnerable civilians, including Mohammed Zakaria al Mutakoa,

1880
01:28:48,439 --> 01:28:51,880
Speaker 3: who is roughly eighteen months old and suffers from severe malnutrition.

1881
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:54,400
Speaker 3: We have since learned new information, including from the hospital

1882
01:28:54,400 --> 01:28:57,680
Speaker 3: that treated him, and updated our story. This is additional

1883
01:28:57,800 --> 01:29:00,240
Speaker 3: detail gives our readers a greater understanding of the situation.

1884
01:29:00,439 --> 01:29:04,320
Speaker 3: Our reporters and photographers continue to report from Gaza. So basically,

1885
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:07,680
Speaker 3: the justification from much of the Israeli media and the

1886
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:09,960
Speaker 3: government is that, you know, the New York Times published

1887
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:12,840
Speaker 3: a blood libel because they did not mention the pre

1888
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:14,960
Speaker 3: existing condition of this child.

1889
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:16,560
Speaker 1: I believe it's muscular dystrophe.

1890
01:29:17,200 --> 01:29:20,040
Speaker 3: However, you know, it's pretty obvious, not just from the photo,

1891
01:29:20,120 --> 01:29:21,760
Speaker 3: but from the reporting and as well as from the

1892
01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:24,479
Speaker 3: hospital notes and the doctors as well that is suffering

1893
01:29:24,520 --> 01:29:27,760
Speaker 3: from malnutrition. It also is one of those things where

1894
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:30,840
Speaker 3: it's like, okay, so let's pick fifteen other photos. You know,

1895
01:29:31,040 --> 01:29:33,880
Speaker 3: this one particular photo that was supposedly is the only

1896
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:37,439
Speaker 3: image that they could find is preposterous. It's unfortunately you

1897
01:29:37,479 --> 01:29:40,439
Speaker 3: can actually go and find it literally anywhere, both on

1898
01:29:40,479 --> 01:29:43,639
Speaker 3: the internet, drop side as multiple Maybe these are horrible,

1899
01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:45,320
Speaker 3: like I don't even want to put them up here,

1900
01:29:45,320 --> 01:29:47,639
Speaker 3: but if you want to, like we can. And it's

1901
01:29:47,680 --> 01:29:50,200
Speaker 3: one of those where it shows kind of the sickness

1902
01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:53,120
Speaker 3: of the way that the propaganda machine is currently working,

1903
01:29:53,320 --> 01:29:59,280
Speaker 3: is you know, debunking debunking this photos as a justification

1904
01:29:59,360 --> 01:30:02,240
Speaker 3: for why it's not happening actually at all.

1905
01:30:02,320 --> 01:30:05,240
Speaker 2: Well, not to mention how sick is it to argue

1906
01:30:05,240 --> 01:30:08,240
Speaker 2: that because this child has another pre existing health condition,

1907
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:09,599
Speaker 2: their starvation doesn't matter.

1908
01:30:09,640 --> 01:30:11,120
Speaker 1: Well, we've talked about that. I mean this is well

1909
01:30:11,160 --> 01:30:13,320
Speaker 1: is there also the most vulnerable of course.

1910
01:30:13,240 --> 01:30:17,719
Speaker 2: That it's utter legal tesque and his mother was actually

1911
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:20,120
Speaker 2: interviewed by another publication. We can put this up on

1912
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:24,839
Speaker 2: the screen about his pre existing condition, his other medical problems.

1913
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:27,679
Speaker 2: And first of all, here's a picture of him as

1914
01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:30,680
Speaker 2: a younger infant, and you can see, you know, he

1915
01:30:30,800 --> 01:30:35,080
Speaker 2: is not emaciated. He has chubby baby cheeks and looks

1916
01:30:35,160 --> 01:30:39,679
Speaker 2: like a normal, healthy little baby. And they say that

1917
01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:43,280
Speaker 2: what she told the outlet is my son, Mohammad was

1918
01:30:43,320 --> 01:30:45,960
Speaker 2: born in December twenty twenty three during the war without

1919
01:30:46,040 --> 01:30:50,000
Speaker 2: any chronic illnesses. Doctors diagnosed him with macrocephaly, which they

1920
01:30:50,040 --> 01:30:53,519
Speaker 2: said was caused by nutritional deficiencies during pregnancy due to

1921
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:57,120
Speaker 2: the Israeli war. So according to his mom, even the

1922
01:30:57,160 --> 01:31:00,439
Speaker 2: medical conditions that he does suffer are because of him

1923
01:31:00,439 --> 01:31:04,120
Speaker 2: being born into this war and this horror being imposed

1924
01:31:04,200 --> 01:31:09,040
Speaker 2: by the Israelis. But it is disgusting beyond words to

1925
01:31:09,600 --> 01:31:12,360
Speaker 2: first of all, dismiss all of the starvation that you

1926
01:31:12,400 --> 01:31:15,640
Speaker 2: see because this one child has another medical condition, and

1927
01:31:15,680 --> 01:31:19,080
Speaker 2: to dismiss this child as not really malnourished or not

1928
01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:22,439
Speaker 2: really counting because he has a medical condition. Yes, the

1929
01:31:22,520 --> 01:31:26,800
Speaker 2: reality is food and medicine and water and fuel are

1930
01:31:26,840 --> 01:31:29,760
Speaker 2: all being denied from the Gaza strip and have been

1931
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:32,880
Speaker 2: for months now. So you know, those who have chronic

1932
01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:35,360
Speaker 2: conditions are also not going to be able to receive

1933
01:31:35,439 --> 01:31:38,679
Speaker 2: the medical treatment that they need. Separate and apart from

1934
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:41,639
Speaker 2: sufficient nutrition in order to survive. So in any case,

1935
01:31:41,640 --> 01:31:44,439
Speaker 2: we're going to move on now to our guest, former

1936
01:31:44,479 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 2: Green Beret who was a contractor with the so called

1937
01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:52,160
Speaker 2: Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, who has been speaking out about the horror, starvation,

1938
01:31:52,400 --> 01:31:55,360
Speaker 2: death and destruction that he witnessed inside of Gaza.

1939
01:31:55,479 --> 01:32:00,800
Speaker 4: Let's get to it.

1940
01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:02,800
Speaker 3: Bec