1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:27,756 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Lindsey Buckingham's signature fingerstyle guitar is perhaps as recognizable 2 00:00:27,916 --> 00:00:30,476 Speaker 1: as a countless classic songs he wrote while he was 3 00:00:30,476 --> 00:00:53,316 Speaker 1: in Fleetwood Mac Done Go Back Again. Buckingham is a 4 00:00:53,356 --> 00:00:57,476 Speaker 1: self taught guitar virtuoso and songwriter who famously joined Fleetwood 5 00:00:57,516 --> 00:01:00,556 Speaker 1: Mac in the mid seventies with his then girlfriend Stevie Nicks. 6 00:01:01,156 --> 00:01:03,276 Speaker 1: The band had been a round since sixty seven, with 7 00:01:03,436 --> 00:01:07,556 Speaker 1: various singers, guitarists, and songwriters. The only constant was the 8 00:01:07,676 --> 00:01:11,956 Speaker 1: rhythm section drummer Mick Fleetwood and bassist John mcviee, but 9 00:01:12,076 --> 00:01:14,756 Speaker 1: the band didn't blow up until Buckingham and Nicks joined, 10 00:01:15,116 --> 00:01:19,076 Speaker 1: writing mega hits for their insanely successful tenth and eleventh albums, 11 00:01:19,316 --> 00:01:23,796 Speaker 1: including the twenty times Platinum Rumors. A lot of the 12 00:01:23,796 --> 00:01:27,396 Speaker 1: songs were about Buckingham's romantic fallout with Nicks in nearly 13 00:01:27,436 --> 00:01:30,596 Speaker 1: half a century later, tensions between the two are still 14 00:01:30,716 --> 00:01:34,556 Speaker 1: very much alive. In twenty eighteen, Stephen Nicks supposedly had 15 00:01:34,596 --> 00:01:37,396 Speaker 1: Buckingham fired from Fleetwood Mac after he asked for some 16 00:01:37,436 --> 00:01:41,116 Speaker 1: time away from the band to work on his solo album. 17 00:01:41,156 --> 00:01:44,356 Speaker 1: On today's episode, bruce Head, them talks to Lindsey Buckingham 18 00:01:44,476 --> 00:01:48,436 Speaker 1: about that solo album. Buckingham also tells Bruce that he 19 00:01:48,476 --> 00:01:50,996 Speaker 1: and Nix never really got closure from the breakup and 20 00:01:51,076 --> 00:01:54,716 Speaker 1: how that affected their professional relationship and the decades. Since 21 00:01:59,476 --> 00:02:02,156 Speaker 1: this is broken record. Liner notes for the digital age. 22 00:02:02,356 --> 00:02:11,196 Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmondsham. Here's Bruce Head with Lindsey Buckenhan. So 23 00:02:11,316 --> 00:02:14,756 Speaker 1: tell me about this album. Well, you know, I have 24 00:02:14,916 --> 00:02:19,716 Speaker 1: had this ready to go for three years, at least 25 00:02:20,396 --> 00:02:25,636 Speaker 1: I had actually finished it, you know, right after Christine 26 00:02:25,716 --> 00:02:28,956 Speaker 1: mcviigh and I did that duet album a few years back, 27 00:02:29,476 --> 00:02:32,156 Speaker 1: and we had Christine and I had done a tour, 28 00:02:33,396 --> 00:02:37,716 Speaker 1: and it was my intention to you know, put this 29 00:02:38,076 --> 00:02:41,956 Speaker 1: current album out back to back with that and do 30 00:02:42,436 --> 00:02:48,756 Speaker 1: at least an American tour behind it before embarking on 31 00:02:48,796 --> 00:02:53,156 Speaker 1: another Fleetwood Mac tour, which was already in the works. 32 00:02:53,516 --> 00:02:56,876 Speaker 1: And I went and asked the band if I could 33 00:02:56,876 --> 00:02:59,476 Speaker 1: have an extra three months before we started rehearsing for 34 00:02:59,916 --> 00:03:03,556 Speaker 1: the Fleewod Mac tour, and there was some resistance to 35 00:03:03,636 --> 00:03:07,676 Speaker 1: that from at least one member, so it got put 36 00:03:07,716 --> 00:03:12,596 Speaker 1: off at that point, and then you know a series 37 00:03:12,676 --> 00:03:16,116 Speaker 1: of other things occurred in the interim that kept it 38 00:03:16,196 --> 00:03:21,116 Speaker 1: on the shelf. You know, one was having a bypass 39 00:03:21,156 --> 00:03:23,996 Speaker 1: surgery a couple of years ago, and then of course 40 00:03:23,996 --> 00:03:27,836 Speaker 1: the pandemic, so you know, which put everybody on hold. 41 00:03:27,916 --> 00:03:30,876 Speaker 1: So you know, it's it's been a long time coming, 42 00:03:30,916 --> 00:03:33,276 Speaker 1: but as I say, it has been ready to go 43 00:03:33,436 --> 00:03:36,156 Speaker 1: for a number of years, and it's nice to finally 44 00:03:36,196 --> 00:03:39,156 Speaker 1: get it out. You know. Listening to it, there's a 45 00:03:39,156 --> 00:03:41,796 Speaker 1: lot of different kind of songs. There's a lot of sounds, 46 00:03:42,276 --> 00:03:44,556 Speaker 1: three or four of the songs. If you told people 47 00:03:44,596 --> 00:03:47,156 Speaker 1: these were like extra tracks from a kind of classic 48 00:03:47,196 --> 00:03:51,036 Speaker 1: Fleetwood Mac album, they'd go, oh, yeah, that makes total sense. Well, 49 00:03:51,076 --> 00:03:54,436 Speaker 1: you know, it was funny because I was, and when 50 00:03:54,436 --> 00:03:57,156 Speaker 1: I began working on it, I you know, I've always 51 00:03:57,196 --> 00:04:01,076 Speaker 1: defined my solo work as being a bit more off 52 00:04:01,116 --> 00:04:03,876 Speaker 1: to the left, or a lot more off to the left, 53 00:04:03,996 --> 00:04:09,756 Speaker 1: and more esoteric. Obviously, in doing that you lose a 54 00:04:09,876 --> 00:04:13,716 Speaker 1: large chunk of potential listeners who don't really get what 55 00:04:13,756 --> 00:04:17,596 Speaker 1: you're doing because it doesn't resonate with their preconceptions of 56 00:04:17,676 --> 00:04:21,076 Speaker 1: you in Fleetwood Mac. But when I got, you know, 57 00:04:21,436 --> 00:04:24,956 Speaker 1: into working on this album, I really was thinking about 58 00:04:24,996 --> 00:04:27,996 Speaker 1: making just a straight ahead pop album, you know, with 59 00:04:28,076 --> 00:04:31,476 Speaker 1: a few you know, odd touches as well. But so 60 00:04:31,636 --> 00:04:35,196 Speaker 1: you're you are correct that many of these songs do 61 00:04:35,756 --> 00:04:40,276 Speaker 1: sound very much in the spirit of the style that 62 00:04:40,716 --> 00:04:43,876 Speaker 1: I applied to Fleetwood Mac as well. Now there's others 63 00:04:43,956 --> 00:04:47,156 Speaker 1: like Scream, which is the first song, which you know 64 00:04:47,276 --> 00:04:49,996 Speaker 1: instantly when you hear the opening of Scream, you're like, Oh, 65 00:04:50,036 --> 00:04:52,396 Speaker 1: that's Lindsay Buckinghan play the guitar. You could just you 66 00:04:52,396 --> 00:04:55,956 Speaker 1: could blindfold people. Man, it's just just like you. It 67 00:04:56,036 --> 00:04:58,636 Speaker 1: just sounds like you. You know. That could be from 68 00:04:58,836 --> 00:05:02,556 Speaker 1: Seeds We've Sewn or other other albums you've made, and 69 00:05:02,716 --> 00:05:04,316 Speaker 1: a couple others. I just want to ask you about 70 00:05:04,316 --> 00:05:07,156 Speaker 1: blue Light, which I thought was just an outstanding track 71 00:05:07,236 --> 00:05:10,036 Speaker 1: and probably one of those that sounds closer to Fleetwood 72 00:05:10,076 --> 00:05:13,436 Speaker 1: Mac than You're Solower. Yeah, you know, it's got sort 73 00:05:13,476 --> 00:05:18,156 Speaker 1: of a shuffle, kind of bluesy base combined with something 74 00:05:18,196 --> 00:05:20,356 Speaker 1: you might have found in Holiday Road or I'm not 75 00:05:20,396 --> 00:05:23,756 Speaker 1: really sure exactly how to characterize that. But again, the 76 00:05:24,156 --> 00:05:28,036 Speaker 1: content of the lyrics is just about a long term 77 00:05:28,036 --> 00:05:30,916 Speaker 1: relationship and celebrating the fact that you go through all 78 00:05:30,916 --> 00:05:36,156 Speaker 1: sorts of things and that all sorts of challenges can 79 00:05:36,156 --> 00:05:41,196 Speaker 1: and do present themselves, especially the longer year together, and 80 00:05:41,316 --> 00:05:47,036 Speaker 1: that you know, if the love and the clarity is there, 81 00:05:47,316 --> 00:05:49,996 Speaker 1: that you will always rise above that and you will 82 00:05:50,036 --> 00:05:55,196 Speaker 1: never succumb to in this case, the blue light. Okay, Now, 83 00:05:55,316 --> 00:05:58,396 Speaker 1: your personal life is I know you filed for divorce, 84 00:05:59,076 --> 00:06:01,756 Speaker 1: is it? Well, you know, we have, but there's there's 85 00:06:01,796 --> 00:06:04,556 Speaker 1: really it's a work in progress. We're not really sure 86 00:06:04,596 --> 00:06:07,516 Speaker 1: what we're doing. I mean, it was that was done 87 00:06:07,636 --> 00:06:11,516 Speaker 1: at a moment in time. But I think there's a 88 00:06:11,556 --> 00:06:14,676 Speaker 1: lot of interest with both of us to try to 89 00:06:14,716 --> 00:06:18,316 Speaker 1: figure this out. And I had no idea how many 90 00:06:18,396 --> 00:06:21,756 Speaker 1: people actually file and never follow through, you know, I 91 00:06:21,756 --> 00:06:26,356 Speaker 1: guess said another. I didn't either until I was made 92 00:06:26,356 --> 00:06:28,956 Speaker 1: aware of that. I may file later today. I didn't 93 00:06:28,956 --> 00:06:31,116 Speaker 1: know that. Hey, you know, if you've got nothing else 94 00:06:31,116 --> 00:06:37,236 Speaker 1: to do now, you grew up in northern California, I did, 95 00:06:37,356 --> 00:06:41,716 Speaker 1: yes around Palowalt Atherton actually, And was there a lot 96 00:06:41,716 --> 00:06:44,356 Speaker 1: of music in your house growing up? Well, you know, 97 00:06:44,916 --> 00:06:48,356 Speaker 1: I probably, in fact, I can say with certainty that 98 00:06:48,396 --> 00:06:51,516 Speaker 1: I would not be here now doing what I'm doing 99 00:06:52,716 --> 00:06:55,396 Speaker 1: had it not been for my older brother. You know, 100 00:06:55,556 --> 00:07:00,036 Speaker 1: I was an avid listener of the music that was 101 00:07:00,076 --> 00:07:03,396 Speaker 1: in our household when I was very young, three four five, 102 00:07:04,556 --> 00:07:09,236 Speaker 1: if it wasn't children's records, you know, it was what 103 00:07:09,276 --> 00:07:12,036 Speaker 1: your parents bought for themselves. So I was an avid 104 00:07:12,116 --> 00:07:17,316 Speaker 1: listener of you know, South Pacific Soundtrack and some of 105 00:07:17,396 --> 00:07:22,956 Speaker 1: my dad's Dixieland Jazz seventy eights or Nutcracker Sweet or 106 00:07:22,996 --> 00:07:25,716 Speaker 1: whatever they happen to have. You know, it's funny you 107 00:07:25,756 --> 00:07:27,916 Speaker 1: mentioned that, because because we had a Nutcracker Sweet, we 108 00:07:27,956 --> 00:07:29,796 Speaker 1: had Peter and the Wolf on the other side of it, 109 00:07:29,836 --> 00:07:32,556 Speaker 1: and those records were just magic when you were a kid. Well, 110 00:07:32,596 --> 00:07:35,276 Speaker 1: you know, Nutcracker Sweet, all of those songs are actually 111 00:07:36,316 --> 00:07:40,636 Speaker 1: I see them as great pop constructions, you know, they're 112 00:07:40,676 --> 00:07:46,516 Speaker 1: they're they're really very accessible, even though technically it's classical music, 113 00:07:46,636 --> 00:07:49,836 Speaker 1: you know. I mean they're very thematic and very sort 114 00:07:49,876 --> 00:07:53,836 Speaker 1: of kind of structured as pop songs, you know, And 115 00:07:53,876 --> 00:07:57,356 Speaker 1: I always loved that about that anyway, So I was 116 00:07:57,396 --> 00:08:02,596 Speaker 1: already attuned to, you know, sort of a fine attentive 117 00:08:02,756 --> 00:08:05,916 Speaker 1: level of listening even when I was very very young. 118 00:08:05,956 --> 00:08:08,836 Speaker 1: But then when I was about six, my older brother 119 00:08:10,116 --> 00:08:12,396 Speaker 1: came home one day and said, well, there's this new singer. 120 00:08:12,476 --> 00:08:17,356 Speaker 1: His name is Elvis Presley, And of course I couldn't 121 00:08:17,356 --> 00:08:19,516 Speaker 1: even imagine what this guy was going to look like. 122 00:08:19,556 --> 00:08:21,876 Speaker 1: I was picturing like al fred Astaire or something in 123 00:08:21,916 --> 00:08:24,276 Speaker 1: a top hat and tales. I didn't know. So he 124 00:08:24,316 --> 00:08:28,836 Speaker 1: started bringing home Elvis and he's but he was an 125 00:08:28,876 --> 00:08:32,516 Speaker 1: avid collector of all the early great rock and roll, 126 00:08:32,596 --> 00:08:36,756 Speaker 1: whether it was Chuck Barry or Johnny Cash or Jerry 127 00:08:36,836 --> 00:08:42,076 Speaker 1: Lee Lewis or Fats Domino, I mean everything. So without 128 00:08:42,116 --> 00:08:45,156 Speaker 1: my brother being such an avid listener, I never would 129 00:08:45,156 --> 00:08:48,916 Speaker 1: have taken to the rock and roll. And it was 130 00:08:48,956 --> 00:08:51,756 Speaker 1: such a revelation, and it's not an uncommon story with 131 00:08:51,836 --> 00:08:55,756 Speaker 1: people our age, where I, you know, suddenly there was 132 00:08:55,796 --> 00:08:59,716 Speaker 1: this music that was for us, it was not for 133 00:08:59,796 --> 00:09:04,596 Speaker 1: our parents, and it was something brand new. And of 134 00:09:04,596 --> 00:09:08,636 Speaker 1: course that's when I started to teach myself to play 135 00:09:08,716 --> 00:09:13,036 Speaker 1: guitar ukulele first and then eventually six string guitar, and 136 00:09:13,436 --> 00:09:16,156 Speaker 1: just by buying a chord book and learning to play 137 00:09:16,236 --> 00:09:18,356 Speaker 1: all of those rock and roll songs and so that 138 00:09:18,396 --> 00:09:22,596 Speaker 1: I could sing and play them. It was an exciting time, 139 00:09:22,756 --> 00:09:25,316 Speaker 1: you know. And what happened with the music in our 140 00:09:25,316 --> 00:09:30,316 Speaker 1: house was that that lasted nineteen sixty sixty one and 141 00:09:30,356 --> 00:09:32,916 Speaker 1: it started to fall off in terms of the impact 142 00:09:32,956 --> 00:09:35,356 Speaker 1: and the newness, and at that point folk music took 143 00:09:35,356 --> 00:09:38,756 Speaker 1: over for me, and I started listening to a lot 144 00:09:38,796 --> 00:09:42,796 Speaker 1: of mainstream folk Peter Paul and Mary Kingston trio, and 145 00:09:43,516 --> 00:09:47,796 Speaker 1: learned how to fingerpick, learned how to travis pick, and that, 146 00:09:47,916 --> 00:09:51,716 Speaker 1: you know, became that really informed the style of my 147 00:09:51,756 --> 00:09:55,236 Speaker 1: guitar playing at that point. So when you left high 148 00:09:55,236 --> 00:09:58,076 Speaker 1: school and you did start pursuing, I know, you went 149 00:09:58,076 --> 00:10:00,516 Speaker 1: to college for a couple of years. Yeah, and you 150 00:10:00,556 --> 00:10:03,396 Speaker 1: did throw yourself into the music business, what did your 151 00:10:03,396 --> 00:10:05,116 Speaker 1: family think. Did they think, hey, he'll give it a 152 00:10:05,156 --> 00:10:07,956 Speaker 1: couple of years, will support on. Well, it was kind 153 00:10:07,996 --> 00:10:11,076 Speaker 1: of incremental because, as you know, I only got into 154 00:10:11,116 --> 00:10:13,236 Speaker 1: a band because I had been asked to play guitar 155 00:10:14,076 --> 00:10:17,036 Speaker 1: at an assembly my senior year and we did that, 156 00:10:17,996 --> 00:10:21,036 Speaker 1: and then we all graduated, and then all of the 157 00:10:21,076 --> 00:10:24,196 Speaker 1: people in that band ended up at Samiteo Junior College 158 00:10:24,196 --> 00:10:28,116 Speaker 1: the next year, and we decided to get the band 159 00:10:28,156 --> 00:10:30,196 Speaker 1: back together and to try to see if we could, 160 00:10:30,716 --> 00:10:33,956 Speaker 1: you know, actually get some work because one of the 161 00:10:34,356 --> 00:10:38,716 Speaker 1: keyboardists was actually a very skillful writer at age eighteen, 162 00:10:38,836 --> 00:10:41,156 Speaker 1: you know, and at that point we were looking for 163 00:10:41,876 --> 00:10:44,116 Speaker 1: a different girl singer because the one we'd had had 164 00:10:44,156 --> 00:10:46,876 Speaker 1: moved away, and so that's when Stevie came into the picture. 165 00:10:47,196 --> 00:10:49,796 Speaker 1: You had known her in high schools that right. She 166 00:10:49,916 --> 00:10:54,996 Speaker 1: transferred in as a senior to Menlo Atherton High when 167 00:10:55,036 --> 00:10:58,236 Speaker 1: I was a junior, and so we knew each other. 168 00:10:58,316 --> 00:11:01,076 Speaker 1: We'd made each other a few times at social events, 169 00:11:01,116 --> 00:11:03,996 Speaker 1: and we both were aware that the other sang and 170 00:11:04,036 --> 00:11:07,476 Speaker 1: played guitar, and there might have been sort of a 171 00:11:07,596 --> 00:11:11,236 Speaker 1: very subtle mutual attract, but you know, nothing that was 172 00:11:11,836 --> 00:11:14,996 Speaker 1: played out in any way. And then she went off 173 00:11:15,356 --> 00:11:17,956 Speaker 1: to college the following year and I stayed and finished 174 00:11:17,996 --> 00:11:19,836 Speaker 1: high school for one more year, so I didn't see 175 00:11:19,836 --> 00:11:22,316 Speaker 1: her for a year, you know, but we knew she 176 00:11:22,396 --> 00:11:23,916 Speaker 1: was a singer, and we knew she was at San 177 00:11:23,996 --> 00:11:27,476 Speaker 1: Mateo where we were all at college, and so we 178 00:11:27,556 --> 00:11:30,596 Speaker 1: asked her to join the band and she said yes. 179 00:11:31,636 --> 00:11:35,716 Speaker 1: And at that point we also connected with a manager 180 00:11:36,116 --> 00:11:40,036 Speaker 1: who was a hustler kind of guy who was at 181 00:11:40,076 --> 00:11:44,316 Speaker 1: going to Stanford, a guy named David Forrest, who actually 182 00:11:44,396 --> 00:11:46,356 Speaker 1: was a very good manager for us at that point 183 00:11:46,436 --> 00:11:51,436 Speaker 1: and started getting us gigs at high schools and clubs 184 00:11:51,476 --> 00:11:55,076 Speaker 1: and things or you know, local stuff, and so you know, 185 00:11:55,196 --> 00:11:58,396 Speaker 1: The way my parents took all of this in was, 186 00:11:58,436 --> 00:12:01,996 Speaker 1: as I said, to be supportive of it. We needed 187 00:12:01,996 --> 00:12:05,716 Speaker 1: a place to rehearse, and they were willing to soundproof 188 00:12:05,796 --> 00:12:08,396 Speaker 1: the garage and let us rehearse there five days a week, 189 00:12:08,756 --> 00:12:11,836 Speaker 1: to my dad's probably my poor dad coming home from 190 00:12:11,876 --> 00:12:14,076 Speaker 1: work and having to listen to this stuff every night. 191 00:12:14,836 --> 00:12:17,236 Speaker 1: But again, I was just doing it because it was 192 00:12:17,716 --> 00:12:21,676 Speaker 1: two things. One, it was just an extension of my 193 00:12:21,756 --> 00:12:26,476 Speaker 1: love of music. And I think the second thing was 194 00:12:26,516 --> 00:12:29,956 Speaker 1: that after high school in nineteen sixty seven, when I graduated, 195 00:12:30,116 --> 00:12:33,436 Speaker 1: that was, you know, I started to d program a bit. 196 00:12:33,516 --> 00:12:36,996 Speaker 1: I started to grow my hair out, and you know, 197 00:12:37,116 --> 00:12:40,116 Speaker 1: the whole Summer of Love up in San Francisco was happening, 198 00:12:40,156 --> 00:12:42,876 Speaker 1: and obviously the Beatles had had a huge influence on 199 00:12:43,676 --> 00:12:47,356 Speaker 1: the world. But anyway, I'd grown my hair out, and 200 00:12:47,396 --> 00:12:49,756 Speaker 1: so I was starting to think of myself as someone 201 00:12:49,836 --> 00:12:54,716 Speaker 1: who wasn't going to be probably what my parents expected 202 00:12:54,756 --> 00:12:59,556 Speaker 1: me to be. Although I wasn't actively thinking about a 203 00:12:59,676 --> 00:13:01,956 Speaker 1: music career per se. I was just happy to be 204 00:13:01,996 --> 00:13:04,436 Speaker 1: in a band and enjoyed the gigs we were doing, 205 00:13:04,476 --> 00:13:08,716 Speaker 1: and enjoyed the evolvement of that band. And that lasted 206 00:13:09,676 --> 00:13:12,636 Speaker 1: you know, about four years and we ended up trying 207 00:13:12,676 --> 00:13:16,476 Speaker 1: to get a record deal and failed. But at that 208 00:13:16,556 --> 00:13:19,516 Speaker 1: point there was interest in Stevie and myself. Had you 209 00:13:19,556 --> 00:13:22,676 Speaker 1: written stuff by this point? No, this is what I'm saying. 210 00:13:22,716 --> 00:13:27,236 Speaker 1: I still had not written songs, and I'd been playing 211 00:13:27,236 --> 00:13:29,476 Speaker 1: bass for four years. So when suddenly there was all 212 00:13:29,516 --> 00:13:32,636 Speaker 1: this interest in Stevie and me, That's when Stevie and 213 00:13:32,676 --> 00:13:37,556 Speaker 1: I got together and became a couple. And that's when 214 00:13:37,596 --> 00:13:39,636 Speaker 1: I said to myself, I guess I've got to start 215 00:13:39,716 --> 00:13:42,636 Speaker 1: writing songs and figure out how to do that. I'm 216 00:13:42,676 --> 00:13:45,276 Speaker 1: fascinated when you sat down to write a song, did 217 00:13:45,356 --> 00:13:47,276 Speaker 1: you like to listen to a couple other singers or 218 00:13:47,756 --> 00:13:50,196 Speaker 1: how did you even begin to do it? Well? I 219 00:13:50,236 --> 00:13:54,156 Speaker 1: think there was you know, again, I think Kat Stevens 220 00:13:54,276 --> 00:13:57,596 Speaker 1: was a big influence at that time. I think some 221 00:13:57,676 --> 00:14:00,916 Speaker 1: of the guitar work was influenced by Jimmy Page and 222 00:14:00,996 --> 00:14:04,316 Speaker 1: the fact that he was really doing a good job 223 00:14:04,356 --> 00:14:08,676 Speaker 1: of using acoustics and electric sometimes in the same song. 224 00:14:09,796 --> 00:14:13,956 Speaker 1: A song like Frozen Love, which is this big epic ending, 225 00:14:14,156 --> 00:14:16,916 Speaker 1: you know, as sort of influenced by that. I don't know, 226 00:14:17,076 --> 00:14:18,996 Speaker 1: I just kind of made it up as I went along. 227 00:14:19,036 --> 00:14:23,236 Speaker 1: I had I had managed to get an old Ampex 228 00:14:23,276 --> 00:14:26,836 Speaker 1: four track tape machine, and so in the kind of 229 00:14:26,836 --> 00:14:30,116 Speaker 1: the mode of les Paul playing everything yourself, I started 230 00:14:30,556 --> 00:14:33,876 Speaker 1: putting stuff down and combining tracks and you know, which 231 00:14:33,996 --> 00:14:36,916 Speaker 1: I still do today, right, But that was also a 232 00:14:37,036 --> 00:14:39,676 Speaker 1: help in terms of, you know, figuring out how to write. 233 00:14:40,356 --> 00:14:43,556 Speaker 1: And Stevie and I basically came up with an album's 234 00:14:43,556 --> 00:14:47,356 Speaker 1: worth of material and worked on it probably for ten 235 00:14:47,396 --> 00:14:51,636 Speaker 1: months or a year, and then figured it was maybe 236 00:14:51,676 --> 00:14:56,396 Speaker 1: time to shop it in Los Angeles. And we had 237 00:14:56,436 --> 00:14:59,996 Speaker 1: one attempt at doing that, which was kind of led 238 00:15:00,036 --> 00:15:04,116 Speaker 1: to more or less tepid responses, I would say. And 239 00:15:04,196 --> 00:15:06,916 Speaker 1: at that point, you know, I still wasn't so driven 240 00:15:06,996 --> 00:15:10,196 Speaker 1: that I that I would have done what Stevie suggested 241 00:15:10,276 --> 00:15:13,036 Speaker 1: we do. Stevie said, lindsay, if we're going to make 242 00:15:13,076 --> 00:15:15,636 Speaker 1: a go of this, we've got to move to LA 243 00:15:15,836 --> 00:15:18,756 Speaker 1: We've got to be where the action is, you know. 244 00:15:19,556 --> 00:15:22,236 Speaker 1: And that's not something I would have done on my own, 245 00:15:23,156 --> 00:15:26,196 Speaker 1: probably because I lived in one place my whole life 246 00:15:26,196 --> 00:15:29,476 Speaker 1: and I loved Atherton and Palawalto in the Bay Area 247 00:15:29,516 --> 00:15:33,356 Speaker 1: in general. She, on the other hand, came from a 248 00:15:33,436 --> 00:15:36,836 Speaker 1: family that got uprooted and moved almost yearly because her 249 00:15:36,916 --> 00:15:41,716 Speaker 1: dad was quite ambitious and kept either changing jobs or 250 00:15:41,796 --> 00:15:47,036 Speaker 1: kept getting promoted, which required a move from city to city. 251 00:15:47,076 --> 00:15:51,676 Speaker 1: So she, you know, it was a much easier proposition 252 00:15:51,716 --> 00:15:53,916 Speaker 1: for her to think about picking up roots and moving 253 00:15:53,956 --> 00:15:56,796 Speaker 1: to LA. So, because it was the two of us, 254 00:15:56,796 --> 00:15:59,956 Speaker 1: and because I sensed that she was correct in her 255 00:15:59,996 --> 00:16:04,756 Speaker 1: intuition there, we did decide to move to LA and luckily, 256 00:16:04,956 --> 00:16:07,516 Speaker 1: luckily enough, Keith Olsen, who was one of the people 257 00:16:07,596 --> 00:16:12,716 Speaker 1: we'd met not too long before, invited us to stay 258 00:16:12,716 --> 00:16:15,636 Speaker 1: at his house for a few months until we until 259 00:16:15,676 --> 00:16:19,036 Speaker 1: we could find a place and was also instrumental in 260 00:16:19,516 --> 00:16:23,316 Speaker 1: helping us get a deal, and obviously was a brilliant 261 00:16:23,316 --> 00:16:27,596 Speaker 1: engineer and co produced the Buckingham Knicks album as well. 262 00:16:27,716 --> 00:16:30,196 Speaker 1: So we picked up our roots and moved to LA 263 00:16:30,276 --> 00:16:33,956 Speaker 1: And again, I probably wouldn't have done that without Stevie. 264 00:16:34,756 --> 00:16:38,676 Speaker 1: But then, because you know, you're known as a studio guy, 265 00:16:38,756 --> 00:16:41,716 Speaker 1: you're known as a producer and a great arranger. Did 266 00:16:41,756 --> 00:16:44,516 Speaker 1: you learn that through the process of that first record? 267 00:16:44,636 --> 00:16:47,836 Speaker 1: When did that interest start? Well, you know, I think 268 00:16:47,876 --> 00:16:50,876 Speaker 1: I just had it in me and I that's all 269 00:16:50,916 --> 00:16:53,356 Speaker 1: I can say. I mean, if I were to go 270 00:16:53,396 --> 00:16:55,836 Speaker 1: back and listen to the Bucky Ham Knicks album, I 271 00:16:55,836 --> 00:16:58,796 Speaker 1: think a lot of that holds up quite well, you know, 272 00:16:58,876 --> 00:17:02,396 Speaker 1: in terms of the musical vision I had for that. 273 00:17:02,676 --> 00:17:06,796 Speaker 1: And I was only twenty two, but you know, I 274 00:17:06,836 --> 00:17:09,236 Speaker 1: think it so much of it comes from having and 275 00:17:09,356 --> 00:17:13,716 Speaker 1: oriented to music for the better part of my life, 276 00:17:13,716 --> 00:17:17,316 Speaker 1: and having started so young, and maybe even the fact 277 00:17:17,396 --> 00:17:21,356 Speaker 1: that I, you know, was so self sufficient as a 278 00:17:21,396 --> 00:17:25,356 Speaker 1: guitarist and had taught myself to play, and I figured, 279 00:17:25,436 --> 00:17:27,876 Speaker 1: if I can do that, I can teach myself to record, 280 00:17:28,036 --> 00:17:31,116 Speaker 1: I can teach myself to produce. And it all kind 281 00:17:31,156 --> 00:17:35,916 Speaker 1: of came together in one kind of fell swoop. We'll 282 00:17:35,956 --> 00:17:38,876 Speaker 1: be right back with Lindsey Buckingham. After a quick break, 283 00:17:42,956 --> 00:17:46,476 Speaker 1: We're back with more from Lindsey Buckingham and Bruce had them. 284 00:17:46,636 --> 00:17:51,036 Speaker 1: You've said years ago that just because you guys were 285 00:17:51,076 --> 00:17:53,476 Speaker 1: so busy and there was so much around the band, 286 00:17:53,516 --> 00:17:58,596 Speaker 1: that you could never really process your split with Stevie 287 00:17:58,676 --> 00:18:00,716 Speaker 1: next right, And I don't know if that you've been 288 00:18:00,716 --> 00:18:03,356 Speaker 1: even married for a long time, you've got adult kids. 289 00:18:04,276 --> 00:18:07,436 Speaker 1: But it's interesting to me that all these years later, 290 00:18:08,356 --> 00:18:11,676 Speaker 1: part of the Fleetwood Mac Show, when you're there is 291 00:18:11,716 --> 00:18:15,676 Speaker 1: people kind of watching that time in your relationship. She's 292 00:18:15,716 --> 00:18:18,396 Speaker 1: singing Landside and they're looking at you, or you're singing 293 00:18:18,436 --> 00:18:21,316 Speaker 1: the Chain. Are they looking at each other? I can't 294 00:18:21,316 --> 00:18:24,796 Speaker 1: think of anything else in popular music like it. Maybe 295 00:18:24,796 --> 00:18:27,236 Speaker 1: Simon and Garfunkle if they ever sing again together. But 296 00:18:27,276 --> 00:18:31,356 Speaker 1: it's but it's this strange thing. Did you ever feel 297 00:18:31,636 --> 00:18:33,876 Speaker 1: when you when you were with them, and God knows 298 00:18:33,916 --> 00:18:36,556 Speaker 1: you might be again in the future. You're good being? 299 00:18:36,796 --> 00:18:40,636 Speaker 1: Are you reliving those feelings? Because that's what people that's 300 00:18:40,636 --> 00:18:44,156 Speaker 1: what they're looking for. Well, you know, I think you 301 00:18:44,276 --> 00:18:49,356 Speaker 1: have to start with the fact that Rumors as an 302 00:18:49,396 --> 00:18:54,356 Speaker 1: album was so appealing, not just because of the music, 303 00:18:54,476 --> 00:18:57,756 Speaker 1: but because of the subtexts and because of the fact 304 00:18:57,756 --> 00:19:00,556 Speaker 1: that these songs the unique. As you said, it's a 305 00:19:00,716 --> 00:19:02,916 Speaker 1: unique to have three writers, and it's unique to have 306 00:19:03,276 --> 00:19:08,956 Speaker 1: three writers that were basically couples. You know, So Chris 307 00:19:09,156 --> 00:19:12,636 Speaker 1: Teens writing songs to John, Stevie's writing songs to me, 308 00:19:12,876 --> 00:19:16,276 Speaker 1: I'm writing songs to Stevie. I mean that the musical 309 00:19:16,316 --> 00:19:19,316 Speaker 1: soap opera of that, the real life aspect of that 310 00:19:19,396 --> 00:19:24,076 Speaker 1: being laid bare on vinyl at that time was irresistible. 311 00:19:24,636 --> 00:19:27,316 Speaker 1: You know, Thank god the music was as good as 312 00:19:27,356 --> 00:19:32,236 Speaker 1: it was because it you know, otherwise maybe the album 313 00:19:32,276 --> 00:19:35,796 Speaker 1: would have eventually been seen as only that it created 314 00:19:35,956 --> 00:19:38,956 Speaker 1: fabulous music, and people do love the music. I'm not 315 00:19:39,156 --> 00:19:42,396 Speaker 1: downgrading that, but no part of it is this little 316 00:19:43,316 --> 00:19:49,396 Speaker 1: drama they're seeing on stage. Yes, and people responded to that. 317 00:19:49,516 --> 00:19:51,796 Speaker 1: I think they related to it in their own lives, 318 00:19:52,236 --> 00:19:55,796 Speaker 1: and I think they respected the fact that somehow we 319 00:19:55,796 --> 00:20:00,636 Speaker 1: were able to rise above all those difficulties in order 320 00:20:00,676 --> 00:20:03,476 Speaker 1: to keep our eye on what appeared to be our 321 00:20:03,556 --> 00:20:05,716 Speaker 1: destiny at that time, even though we didn't know what 322 00:20:05,756 --> 00:20:10,596 Speaker 1: that destiny was, and to on with what we needed 323 00:20:10,636 --> 00:20:13,436 Speaker 1: to do as a band and creatively for the big picture. 324 00:20:13,596 --> 00:20:16,676 Speaker 1: But in doing that, you had to kind of compartmentalize 325 00:20:16,716 --> 00:20:20,396 Speaker 1: all your feelings, and you know, a therapist would probably 326 00:20:20,396 --> 00:20:24,556 Speaker 1: tell you it's not the most healthy way to go about, 327 00:20:24,636 --> 00:20:28,276 Speaker 1: you know, getting closure, because I would have to see 328 00:20:28,276 --> 00:20:30,356 Speaker 1: Stev every day and I would have to make the 329 00:20:30,396 --> 00:20:32,796 Speaker 1: decision to do the right thing for her, even though 330 00:20:32,836 --> 00:20:36,276 Speaker 1: I was in pain, and there was never any any 331 00:20:36,316 --> 00:20:40,636 Speaker 1: physical distance to get closure. So, you know, I think 332 00:20:40,636 --> 00:20:43,876 Speaker 1: there are echoes of that that are still tangible sometimes 333 00:20:43,916 --> 00:20:47,756 Speaker 1: on that were still tangible on stage as recently as 334 00:20:47,796 --> 00:20:50,956 Speaker 1: a few years ago with Stevie and myself, because those 335 00:20:51,036 --> 00:20:55,756 Speaker 1: issues never really got resolved, you know, they kind of 336 00:20:55,756 --> 00:21:00,076 Speaker 1: got pushed under the rug and yet completely exposed to 337 00:21:00,116 --> 00:21:03,396 Speaker 1: the world at the same time. You're like a shell 338 00:21:03,516 --> 00:21:08,796 Speaker 1: shocked soldier. They just keep spending them back to the front, right, Yeah, yeah, 339 00:21:09,236 --> 00:21:11,596 Speaker 1: does that angry surface, like do you ever want to say, 340 00:21:11,836 --> 00:21:14,676 Speaker 1: you know, and now Stevie's or you know, she thinks, well, 341 00:21:14,676 --> 00:21:16,716 Speaker 1: now you know, lindsay the jerk is going to sing 342 00:21:16,716 --> 00:21:20,356 Speaker 1: a song about me? Or is it? Is it all professional? No? 343 00:21:20,596 --> 00:21:23,276 Speaker 1: I think it's all sort of You can take many 344 00:21:23,276 --> 00:21:27,996 Speaker 1: steps back and look at it philosophically, and obviously for me, 345 00:21:28,756 --> 00:21:31,996 Speaker 1: you know, meeting my wife and having children relatively late. 346 00:21:32,076 --> 00:21:34,476 Speaker 1: I mean I saw so many people that I know 347 00:21:34,636 --> 00:21:36,956 Speaker 1: who were trying to be rock and rollers and live 348 00:21:37,036 --> 00:21:41,036 Speaker 1: the lifestyle and also be parents and spouses and failed 349 00:21:41,076 --> 00:21:44,316 Speaker 1: at those and I wasn't going to be one of those. 350 00:21:44,356 --> 00:21:47,716 Speaker 1: So you know, I had that as well, you know, 351 00:21:47,756 --> 00:21:52,076 Speaker 1: to fall back on and to redefine myself. And so no, 352 00:21:52,276 --> 00:21:55,916 Speaker 1: I don't think there was ever a time when those 353 00:21:55,956 --> 00:21:58,836 Speaker 1: feelings got at least not for me. I can't speak 354 00:21:58,876 --> 00:22:02,396 Speaker 1: for Stevie. You know, she may still be working that 355 00:22:02,476 --> 00:22:06,236 Speaker 1: stuff through. I sometimes I thought that her some of 356 00:22:06,276 --> 00:22:11,196 Speaker 1: her reactions to things and her involvement in what happened 357 00:22:11,236 --> 00:22:13,436 Speaker 1: a few years back with the band you know, was 358 00:22:13,476 --> 00:22:16,556 Speaker 1: somewhat based in that. But I don't know. Yeah, it's 359 00:22:16,556 --> 00:22:19,316 Speaker 1: just interesting that he did a terrific album with Christine 360 00:22:19,436 --> 00:22:22,956 Speaker 1: McVie and it had all that kind of magic. And 361 00:22:22,956 --> 00:22:24,356 Speaker 1: I don't know how well it's sold, but I think 362 00:22:24,396 --> 00:22:25,716 Speaker 1: and I'm sure the tour went well. But you know, 363 00:22:25,756 --> 00:22:27,676 Speaker 1: if you announced tomorrow I'm going to do an album 364 00:22:27,676 --> 00:22:29,756 Speaker 1: with Stevie Nicks, I'm not saying this is happening, but 365 00:22:29,836 --> 00:22:31,556 Speaker 1: you know, you'd be on the front page of the 366 00:22:31,596 --> 00:22:34,596 Speaker 1: New York Times. People. Yea, even though it's fifty years old. 367 00:22:34,596 --> 00:22:40,036 Speaker 1: People are like they've just seized onto this an incredible way. Oh, 368 00:22:40,156 --> 00:22:43,716 Speaker 1: it would be so circular in karmic it would be crazy. 369 00:22:43,996 --> 00:22:46,916 Speaker 1: The story about how you to join Fleetwood, Mac is. 370 00:22:47,116 --> 00:22:49,796 Speaker 1: It's famous that Fleetwood was in the next studio he 371 00:22:49,956 --> 00:22:53,276 Speaker 1: heard your guitar playing. He was looking for a guitar player. 372 00:22:53,756 --> 00:22:56,996 Speaker 1: But what interests me is when you joined you know, 373 00:22:57,036 --> 00:23:01,436 Speaker 1: for example, there are whole books written about Lennon and 374 00:23:01,516 --> 00:23:04,756 Speaker 1: McCartney and about the sort of psychology of their relationship, 375 00:23:05,196 --> 00:23:08,116 Speaker 1: how they were friendly but competitive and they pushed each 376 00:23:08,116 --> 00:23:11,876 Speaker 1: other to new heights. You joined a band that had 377 00:23:11,956 --> 00:23:16,876 Speaker 1: three main songwriters, which is pretty unusual, and all three 378 00:23:16,916 --> 00:23:19,796 Speaker 1: of you started to get better. If you look at, 379 00:23:19,996 --> 00:23:22,996 Speaker 1: you know, the top twenty Fleetwood Mac singles, all you 380 00:23:22,996 --> 00:23:26,516 Speaker 1: guys have written a bunch of them, you, Christine and 381 00:23:26,796 --> 00:23:30,076 Speaker 1: Stevie Nicks. What was that dynamic like when you joined 382 00:23:30,116 --> 00:23:34,636 Speaker 1: around songwriting? It was interesting because if you look at 383 00:23:34,676 --> 00:23:39,236 Speaker 1: the whole thing of us moving to la and getting 384 00:23:39,276 --> 00:23:43,076 Speaker 1: a deal and having that album come and go and 385 00:23:44,196 --> 00:23:46,476 Speaker 1: connecting up with Fleetwood Mac, it all happened in a 386 00:23:46,556 --> 00:23:50,996 Speaker 1: relatively short period of time, and clearly Stevie and I 387 00:23:51,036 --> 00:23:56,156 Speaker 1: were prepared for the opportunity that was coming our way, 388 00:23:56,196 --> 00:23:59,756 Speaker 1: although you know that opportunity had yet to really be defined. 389 00:24:00,676 --> 00:24:04,596 Speaker 1: You know, one of the things that was in our 390 00:24:04,636 --> 00:24:10,076 Speaker 1: favor going into Fleetwood Mac was that we had been 391 00:24:10,476 --> 00:24:13,836 Speaker 1: demoing songs for a new album. So all of my 392 00:24:13,996 --> 00:24:17,116 Speaker 1: songs that are on that first Fleetwood Mac album and 393 00:24:17,316 --> 00:24:22,076 Speaker 1: all of Stevies Rhiannon everything, and there's one Crystal which 394 00:24:22,116 --> 00:24:24,916 Speaker 1: was from the Buckingham Nick's album. But all of those 395 00:24:25,276 --> 00:24:28,876 Speaker 1: were completely worked out and very much in the form 396 00:24:28,956 --> 00:24:32,836 Speaker 1: that you hear them, you know, minus the rhythm section 397 00:24:32,956 --> 00:24:36,716 Speaker 1: of John and Mick per se, and so there was 398 00:24:36,756 --> 00:24:40,236 Speaker 1: no sense of having to interact, you know, to sort 399 00:24:40,276 --> 00:24:44,836 Speaker 1: of make something happen, because we all were somewhat self sufficient. 400 00:24:45,196 --> 00:24:49,116 Speaker 1: I will say that that in I remember very clearly 401 00:24:49,156 --> 00:24:53,436 Speaker 1: the first day of rehearsal that we we had you 402 00:24:53,476 --> 00:24:56,796 Speaker 1: know before, as preparation for going in the studio to 403 00:24:56,836 --> 00:25:00,676 Speaker 1: make that first album that you know, Christine started showing 404 00:25:00,676 --> 00:25:03,476 Speaker 1: me some of her songs and I immediately realized that 405 00:25:03,836 --> 00:25:07,796 Speaker 1: one of my big contributions to Fleetwood Macott would be 406 00:25:08,556 --> 00:25:12,116 Speaker 1: as a music leader, because she needed a little bit 407 00:25:12,116 --> 00:25:14,156 Speaker 1: of insight and a little bit of guidance on some 408 00:25:14,236 --> 00:25:17,436 Speaker 1: of her songs that I was able to give and 409 00:25:17,876 --> 00:25:21,916 Speaker 1: to take them to, you know, fruition a song like 410 00:25:21,996 --> 00:25:24,716 Speaker 1: over my Head where we completely remade the bridge from 411 00:25:24,716 --> 00:25:30,676 Speaker 1: what she'd had it. So, you know, the writing remained succinct, 412 00:25:30,796 --> 00:25:34,236 Speaker 1: where where each of us had our own process. There 413 00:25:34,276 --> 00:25:37,876 Speaker 1: was never any sitting around and co writing, but there 414 00:25:37,956 --> 00:25:40,676 Speaker 1: was a lot of interaction in terms of record making. 415 00:25:41,236 --> 00:25:44,596 Speaker 1: For sure, okay, and you all wrote Alane and then 416 00:25:44,676 --> 00:25:47,076 Speaker 1: did you each present your songs to the group sort 417 00:25:47,076 --> 00:25:50,876 Speaker 1: of for your consideration, we'd like this for the next yes, 418 00:25:51,156 --> 00:25:53,396 Speaker 1: And was it a good group to present to where 419 00:25:53,476 --> 00:25:56,556 Speaker 1: people open things or were they who do you think 420 00:25:56,596 --> 00:26:00,596 Speaker 1: you are? Or well, I think you know, Mick drove 421 00:26:00,676 --> 00:26:04,836 Speaker 1: a lot of that making. Christine especially were very open 422 00:26:04,876 --> 00:26:06,756 Speaker 1: to what we had. And you have to remember Mick 423 00:26:06,956 --> 00:26:10,156 Speaker 1: heard my guitar solo and frozen or maybe the whole 424 00:26:10,196 --> 00:26:12,196 Speaker 1: song which has a lot of great finger picking in 425 00:26:12,276 --> 00:26:15,596 Speaker 1: it too, and asked me to join Fleetwood Mac based 426 00:26:15,636 --> 00:26:18,196 Speaker 1: on that, you know, so he was he was an 427 00:26:18,196 --> 00:26:23,196 Speaker 1: incredibly intuitive guy, and you have to realize that he 428 00:26:23,996 --> 00:26:28,476 Speaker 1: and Christine and John had been keeping the band barely 429 00:26:28,756 --> 00:26:31,596 Speaker 1: above water for a number of years. You know, they'd 430 00:26:31,636 --> 00:26:35,556 Speaker 1: had this brilliant beginning with Peter Green and then Kiln 431 00:26:35,596 --> 00:26:39,836 Speaker 1: House was great with Christine and Danny Kerwin. But you know, 432 00:26:39,876 --> 00:26:42,556 Speaker 1: there were all these albums that they were in between 433 00:26:42,636 --> 00:26:44,996 Speaker 1: which were kind of non sequiturs from album to album 434 00:26:45,036 --> 00:26:48,196 Speaker 1: style wise, because different people kept floating in and out 435 00:26:48,196 --> 00:26:50,556 Speaker 1: of the band. And the reason that that happened was 436 00:26:50,596 --> 00:26:53,476 Speaker 1: because Mike was intent on making sure that the band 437 00:26:54,116 --> 00:26:56,676 Speaker 1: stayed together and stayed alive at whatever the costs. And 438 00:26:57,076 --> 00:27:00,716 Speaker 1: also Moe Austen, who was president of Warners at that time. 439 00:27:01,196 --> 00:27:03,156 Speaker 1: I gave him a ton of credit for even keeping 440 00:27:03,196 --> 00:27:05,636 Speaker 1: him on the label. It's not something you would find 441 00:27:05,996 --> 00:27:09,556 Speaker 1: happened today. If your bottom line is not you know 442 00:27:09,716 --> 00:27:12,796 Speaker 1: something you can make the boardroom happy about, you're going 443 00:27:12,836 --> 00:27:15,316 Speaker 1: to be off the label. And in those days he 444 00:27:15,396 --> 00:27:19,196 Speaker 1: had not only the intuition but the autonomy to make 445 00:27:19,476 --> 00:27:21,796 Speaker 1: a choice about Fleetwood Mac and say I'm just going 446 00:27:21,836 --> 00:27:23,716 Speaker 1: to leave him on the label because you know there's 447 00:27:23,716 --> 00:27:26,396 Speaker 1: something good here and let's just see what happens. It's 448 00:27:26,436 --> 00:27:29,516 Speaker 1: interesting that today there's no way that band would have 449 00:27:29,556 --> 00:27:32,036 Speaker 1: reached that level where they would have brought you and 450 00:27:32,556 --> 00:27:35,956 Speaker 1: Stevie Nixon and had the kind of success that's right. 451 00:27:35,996 --> 00:27:39,076 Speaker 1: They would have been probably disbanded by then. So you know, 452 00:27:39,116 --> 00:27:43,716 Speaker 1: those kind of happy accidents are much fewer today. So 453 00:27:43,916 --> 00:27:47,156 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I think Mick in particular was 454 00:27:47,356 --> 00:27:51,596 Speaker 1: very had a great sense of overview about which material 455 00:27:51,676 --> 00:27:55,796 Speaker 1: to choose and what would make a great overall album. 456 00:27:56,476 --> 00:28:00,236 Speaker 1: And there was never any any sort of territoriality about that, 457 00:28:00,556 --> 00:28:03,236 Speaker 1: any cynicism about that. I mean, the closest thing I 458 00:28:03,236 --> 00:28:07,836 Speaker 1: can remember to anything like that was just a side 459 00:28:07,836 --> 00:28:11,556 Speaker 1: comment from John to Mick one day where I think 460 00:28:11,636 --> 00:28:14,196 Speaker 1: he was talking about the song blue Letter or something 461 00:28:14,236 --> 00:28:17,156 Speaker 1: that was, you know, relatively California, if you want to 462 00:28:17,156 --> 00:28:20,916 Speaker 1: call it that, and I think he said to Mick, well, 463 00:28:20,956 --> 00:28:24,116 Speaker 1: it's a long way from the Blues, you know, And 464 00:28:24,596 --> 00:28:27,116 Speaker 1: but you know he was. He was into it. Everyone 465 00:28:27,196 --> 00:28:29,636 Speaker 1: was into it. We could tell immediately there was this 466 00:28:29,716 --> 00:28:33,116 Speaker 1: great chemistry. You were also the arranger. What would you 467 00:28:33,236 --> 00:28:37,076 Speaker 1: do with a song like you know, Dreams or something 468 00:28:37,116 --> 00:28:39,836 Speaker 1: that Christine brought in? Were you the one who sat 469 00:28:39,876 --> 00:28:41,716 Speaker 1: down and said, well, I think that the solo should 470 00:28:41,756 --> 00:28:44,756 Speaker 1: go here, or why don't we try this sound totally 471 00:28:44,796 --> 00:28:47,396 Speaker 1: on a song like Dreams? If you heard it the 472 00:28:47,436 --> 00:28:50,476 Speaker 1: way Stevie brought it in, you know, because she wrote 473 00:28:50,476 --> 00:28:54,036 Speaker 1: it on the piano and basically was playing it with 474 00:28:54,076 --> 00:28:56,756 Speaker 1: like two fingers, you know, these two chords back and forth, 475 00:28:56,796 --> 00:28:59,116 Speaker 1: the same two chords for the whole song, which is great, 476 00:28:59,836 --> 00:29:04,556 Speaker 1: but it was so in need of delineation. It was 477 00:29:04,636 --> 00:29:08,356 Speaker 1: so in need of one section being set apart from 478 00:29:08,356 --> 00:29:12,036 Speaker 1: the other because there was the potential for a chorus 479 00:29:12,676 --> 00:29:16,956 Speaker 1: and a passing section and a verse, but none of 480 00:29:16,996 --> 00:29:20,636 Speaker 1: that was framed or was set up. So you know, 481 00:29:20,996 --> 00:29:23,996 Speaker 1: all the orchestration that you hear on a song like 482 00:29:24,156 --> 00:29:27,316 Speaker 1: Dreams was just something that came out of my head, 483 00:29:27,436 --> 00:29:31,236 Speaker 1: you know, because I understood what the song could become, 484 00:29:31,756 --> 00:29:34,476 Speaker 1: you know, if you took those sections and treated them 485 00:29:35,356 --> 00:29:37,636 Speaker 1: with a sense of departure from one to the other. 486 00:29:38,276 --> 00:29:41,756 Speaker 1: So therefore you've got, you know, a fairly empty verse 487 00:29:41,796 --> 00:29:44,556 Speaker 1: with just sort of answering licks, and then you've got 488 00:29:44,596 --> 00:29:48,156 Speaker 1: a passing section where it's building tension and I'm doing 489 00:29:48,156 --> 00:29:52,036 Speaker 1: this up and down picking thing, and then it hits 490 00:29:52,036 --> 00:29:54,596 Speaker 1: into the chorus, which is, you know, a chorus must 491 00:29:54,636 --> 00:29:57,636 Speaker 1: have a sense of arrival. Then the harmonies come in 492 00:29:57,756 --> 00:30:02,116 Speaker 1: and other instruments kick in, and it's just a thing. 493 00:30:02,356 --> 00:30:05,516 Speaker 1: You know. What was it like for you, in particular 494 00:30:05,516 --> 00:30:09,316 Speaker 1: to work with Mick Fleetwood, because he, like you, I 495 00:30:09,316 --> 00:30:12,876 Speaker 1: don't think he ever had a lesson, no very intuitive player. 496 00:30:12,996 --> 00:30:14,636 Speaker 1: I think I've heard you stay in the past that 497 00:30:14,676 --> 00:30:17,556 Speaker 1: he never plays the same thing twice. That's right, Which 498 00:30:17,756 --> 00:30:20,956 Speaker 1: is it must be a little maddening at points. How 499 00:30:20,956 --> 00:30:23,476 Speaker 1: did you guys get along? Because you know, you mentioned 500 00:30:23,556 --> 00:30:26,076 Speaker 1: Dreams when I think of that chorus. I think if 501 00:30:26,116 --> 00:30:28,436 Speaker 1: he comes in a bit late on that big symbol crash, 502 00:30:28,476 --> 00:30:31,396 Speaker 1: and it's just it's such a big moment in that song, right, 503 00:30:31,836 --> 00:30:34,716 Speaker 1: but in it's very it's it's all feel. It's not 504 00:30:35,356 --> 00:30:38,596 Speaker 1: I don't think anybody else would play it that way. No, No, 505 00:30:38,676 --> 00:30:44,276 Speaker 1: I mean I completely related to where he was coming 506 00:30:44,316 --> 00:30:47,996 Speaker 1: from and how it was all intuition and feel for him, 507 00:30:48,036 --> 00:30:51,636 Speaker 1: and he and I were, you know, were and are 508 00:30:51,676 --> 00:30:54,276 Speaker 1: you know, kind of soulmates because of that, you know, 509 00:30:54,356 --> 00:30:58,956 Speaker 1: we both love the same things about music. If there's 510 00:30:58,996 --> 00:31:02,676 Speaker 1: anything frustrating for Mick, it's that he's got so much 511 00:31:02,716 --> 00:31:08,596 Speaker 1: inside that he feels and is not articulate enough musically 512 00:31:08,636 --> 00:31:11,676 Speaker 1: to exp press, you know. I mean, he could be 513 00:31:11,796 --> 00:31:16,316 Speaker 1: probably be a great writer. But you know, he's certainly 514 00:31:16,316 --> 00:31:18,956 Speaker 1: the best drummer I've ever worked with. It's interesting he 515 00:31:18,996 --> 00:31:21,916 Speaker 1: wouldn't he doesn't know how to write a song. Well, 516 00:31:22,116 --> 00:31:26,316 Speaker 1: he'll come up with certain raw ideas and and and 517 00:31:26,356 --> 00:31:29,756 Speaker 1: they all have a sense of soul to them, you know, 518 00:31:30,636 --> 00:31:35,036 Speaker 1: but he's there's there's hardly ever anything like completion, you know, 519 00:31:35,116 --> 00:31:38,356 Speaker 1: because it's just not part of his DNA in that sense. 520 00:31:39,476 --> 00:31:44,436 Speaker 1: But He's a magical guy. He's always been someone who 521 00:31:45,396 --> 00:31:50,476 Speaker 1: was amazing with the overview and yet was in some 522 00:31:50,516 --> 00:31:52,836 Speaker 1: ways timid about what he could and couldn't do, which 523 00:31:52,916 --> 00:31:55,676 Speaker 1: is part of what makes him great because what he 524 00:31:55,716 --> 00:32:01,036 Speaker 1: does do it's just so natural and so it just flows. 525 00:32:01,076 --> 00:32:04,356 Speaker 1: You know. Well, also, you there'd be a lot of 526 00:32:04,436 --> 00:32:07,556 Speaker 1: leaders of bands, you know, particularly a band like Fleetwood 527 00:32:07,556 --> 00:32:09,676 Speaker 1: Macot that had some success, it had been back on 528 00:32:09,716 --> 00:32:12,356 Speaker 1: its heels at that point. Not a lot of people 529 00:32:12,356 --> 00:32:15,516 Speaker 1: would say, well, let's get Lindsey Buckingham. And he says, 530 00:32:15,516 --> 00:32:17,316 Speaker 1: we've got to bring his girlfriend along like that was 531 00:32:17,356 --> 00:32:20,516 Speaker 1: a pretty radical change for the band. It was, and 532 00:32:20,836 --> 00:32:23,396 Speaker 1: he could see that and probably a lot of band 533 00:32:23,476 --> 00:32:26,236 Speaker 1: leaders wouldn't have. Well, yeah, and you have to give 534 00:32:26,316 --> 00:32:29,196 Speaker 1: him credit for a when I said you got to 535 00:32:29,236 --> 00:32:32,036 Speaker 1: take my girlfriend too, for him saying okay, And you 536 00:32:32,116 --> 00:32:34,316 Speaker 1: got to give Christine credit for that, you know, for 537 00:32:34,436 --> 00:32:36,316 Speaker 1: us to do I want another girl in the band. 538 00:32:37,276 --> 00:32:39,916 Speaker 1: And yet, you know, I think there was this again, 539 00:32:40,036 --> 00:32:46,036 Speaker 1: this sense that there was something unique about it that 540 00:32:46,556 --> 00:32:50,596 Speaker 1: we couldn't quite define. Yet it was all done on intuition. 541 00:32:50,916 --> 00:32:54,316 Speaker 1: I mean, our decision to join was was done on intuition. 542 00:32:54,396 --> 00:32:58,356 Speaker 1: It wasn't a clear cut big break for us. You know, 543 00:32:58,476 --> 00:33:01,556 Speaker 1: we weren't sure that it was the right move to 544 00:33:01,636 --> 00:33:04,596 Speaker 1: make at first because we didn't know where Fleetwood Mac 545 00:33:04,716 --> 00:33:07,876 Speaker 1: was going. But you know, it's it did become clear 546 00:33:07,996 --> 00:33:12,356 Speaker 1: fairly soon that the chemistry was amazing and that the 547 00:33:12,436 --> 00:33:15,516 Speaker 1: synergy was creating something greater than some of the parts. 548 00:33:15,596 --> 00:33:18,396 Speaker 1: You know. I mean that that first album only took 549 00:33:18,436 --> 00:33:21,036 Speaker 1: a you know, for four or five months to do, 550 00:33:21,236 --> 00:33:23,676 Speaker 1: and what came out of that, you know, just just 551 00:33:24,276 --> 00:33:26,796 Speaker 1: we hit the ground running. It was crazy. You know. 552 00:33:26,916 --> 00:33:31,596 Speaker 1: Part of that synergy is your vocals with Christine's. Now, 553 00:33:31,596 --> 00:33:34,916 Speaker 1: I know, everybody because of the romantic relationships, they talk 554 00:33:34,996 --> 00:33:37,356 Speaker 1: about the band in terms of you and Stevie, But 555 00:33:37,436 --> 00:33:42,036 Speaker 1: when did you realize how well your voice melded with Christine's. 556 00:33:42,156 --> 00:33:44,676 Speaker 1: Because there's there's something and you guys did announ me 557 00:33:44,676 --> 00:33:47,356 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, and that magic is instantly back. 558 00:33:47,396 --> 00:33:52,156 Speaker 1: If you sound fabulous together. I know it's weird. I 559 00:33:52,196 --> 00:33:58,796 Speaker 1: think it's because because Stevie has a much more defined 560 00:33:59,396 --> 00:34:03,996 Speaker 1: style with her vibrato and and it's a bit nasal, 561 00:34:04,276 --> 00:34:09,236 Speaker 1: and when I would harmonize with her to some degree, 562 00:34:09,796 --> 00:34:12,436 Speaker 1: it just created a different thing. Christine and I were 563 00:34:12,476 --> 00:34:16,836 Speaker 1: almost we both had slightly more dead pan approaches to singing, 564 00:34:17,356 --> 00:34:21,196 Speaker 1: and I think that when you put that together side 565 00:34:21,196 --> 00:34:23,916 Speaker 1: by side, it just creates a kind of a symmetry 566 00:34:24,036 --> 00:34:28,236 Speaker 1: which really shines and is so balanced, you know, I 567 00:34:28,316 --> 00:34:32,396 Speaker 1: think that's what it is. So after rumors, you did Tusk, 568 00:34:32,436 --> 00:34:35,836 Speaker 1: which was very much your project, and it's it's what 569 00:34:35,956 --> 00:34:39,836 Speaker 1: people associate you, you know, the guy in the studio 570 00:34:40,076 --> 00:34:43,436 Speaker 1: kind of you know, diagramming it all out, very very 571 00:34:43,516 --> 00:34:47,876 Speaker 1: precise in a way that working with Fleetwood Mac always 572 00:34:47,876 --> 00:34:51,196 Speaker 1: seemed a little bit chaotic. Yeah, when you talk about 573 00:34:51,236 --> 00:34:53,036 Speaker 1: your own when you do your own albums, you do 574 00:34:53,116 --> 00:34:55,636 Speaker 1: all the instruments, it seems like a very it seems 575 00:34:55,676 --> 00:34:58,756 Speaker 1: like a different side of your personality, the very precise side. 576 00:34:58,996 --> 00:35:01,916 Speaker 1: Is it kind of a relief after all the stem 577 00:35:01,916 --> 00:35:04,436 Speaker 1: and dragging around Fleetwood Mac to say, Okay, I'm just 578 00:35:04,476 --> 00:35:06,196 Speaker 1: going to sit in the studio and do it the 579 00:35:06,196 --> 00:35:11,156 Speaker 1: way I want. Well, I always of the processes as 580 00:35:11,156 --> 00:35:15,436 Speaker 1: being two different things. I always felt that working with 581 00:35:15,476 --> 00:35:19,116 Speaker 1: Fleetwood Mac was probably more like making a movie, because 582 00:35:19,196 --> 00:35:22,516 Speaker 1: you know, you come in, you've got songs, You've got 583 00:35:22,956 --> 00:35:28,356 Speaker 1: certain preconceptions about things, but everything is kind of more 584 00:35:28,396 --> 00:35:32,476 Speaker 1: political and more conscious in terms of the choices you're making. 585 00:35:32,596 --> 00:35:35,796 Speaker 1: Is a lot more talking about what you're doing and 586 00:35:37,156 --> 00:35:41,316 Speaker 1: working on my own is probably more analogous to painting 587 00:35:41,996 --> 00:35:47,516 Speaker 1: because you are probably putting yourself in an environment where 588 00:35:48,036 --> 00:35:51,316 Speaker 1: you potentially are going to be able to discover more things, 589 00:35:51,636 --> 00:35:54,436 Speaker 1: because as a painter does with his canvas, you know, 590 00:35:54,476 --> 00:35:58,556 Speaker 1: you're sort of one on one and at some point 591 00:35:58,636 --> 00:36:02,076 Speaker 1: wherever you think you're going, you might get led in 592 00:36:02,156 --> 00:36:05,796 Speaker 1: a different direction by what's going on on the canvas. 593 00:36:05,916 --> 00:36:09,116 Speaker 1: And so those two things I think are both important 594 00:36:09,276 --> 00:36:12,556 Speaker 1: for me, and you know, the Tusk album in particular. 595 00:36:12,596 --> 00:36:17,316 Speaker 1: Obviously it's been said before, but I was really just 596 00:36:17,836 --> 00:36:22,516 Speaker 1: motivated to make that change from Rumors because Rumors was 597 00:36:22,596 --> 00:36:27,356 Speaker 1: so successful that at some point the success detached from 598 00:36:27,356 --> 00:36:31,436 Speaker 1: the music and kind of became about the success. And 599 00:36:31,996 --> 00:36:36,236 Speaker 1: I think we were poised to possibly start to paint 600 00:36:36,276 --> 00:36:39,276 Speaker 1: ourselves into a corner because you know, the kind of 601 00:36:39,276 --> 00:36:43,196 Speaker 1: the corporate formula is if something works, running into the 602 00:36:43,196 --> 00:36:47,156 Speaker 1: ground until his dad and move on, and that's not 603 00:36:47,356 --> 00:36:50,596 Speaker 1: really the formula to try to aspiring to try to 604 00:36:50,596 --> 00:36:52,876 Speaker 1: be an artist. In the long term, you've got to 605 00:36:52,916 --> 00:36:55,996 Speaker 1: continue to take risks and to follow your heart, yeah, 606 00:36:56,276 --> 00:36:59,396 Speaker 1: and not do what the external world is expecting you 607 00:36:59,476 --> 00:37:04,156 Speaker 1: to do. And so that was really the psychology behind 608 00:37:05,116 --> 00:37:08,796 Speaker 1: the left turn that I orchestrated on Tusk. You know, 609 00:37:09,196 --> 00:37:12,316 Speaker 1: it's quite an insight you had, because anybody else would say, 610 00:37:12,556 --> 00:37:16,316 Speaker 1: what we're doing rumors too, right, And I'm sure Warner 611 00:37:16,396 --> 00:37:19,756 Speaker 1: Music thought you were doing rumors too. Oh yeah, they 612 00:37:19,796 --> 00:37:21,196 Speaker 1: I would love to have been a fly on the 613 00:37:21,236 --> 00:37:23,276 Speaker 1: wall when they first put Tusk on in the border 614 00:37:23,316 --> 00:37:25,436 Speaker 1: room and we're probably going, what the hell is this? 615 00:37:27,756 --> 00:37:31,676 Speaker 1: But it's an interesting whether people and people argue about Tusk, 616 00:37:31,796 --> 00:37:34,316 Speaker 1: and I know it's it's maybe your favorite album of 617 00:37:34,436 --> 00:37:38,836 Speaker 1: your Fleetwood Mac Records, but it's a great insight that 618 00:37:38,876 --> 00:37:40,716 Speaker 1: you thought, no, no, no, we gotta change. At the 619 00:37:40,756 --> 00:37:44,156 Speaker 1: height of the insane success you guys were having. Were 620 00:37:44,156 --> 00:37:46,516 Speaker 1: you listening to other music and saying, no, music is 621 00:37:46,596 --> 00:37:48,876 Speaker 1: changing and we're gonna fall behind. We're gonna look like, 622 00:37:49,236 --> 00:37:51,556 Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna look like Dean Martin or something 623 00:37:51,596 --> 00:37:54,636 Speaker 1: if we keep doing this stuff. Well maybe in a 624 00:37:54,716 --> 00:37:59,236 Speaker 1: small way, but really I think as successful as Rumors 625 00:37:59,356 --> 00:38:02,556 Speaker 1: was that there were things that we didn't cover in 626 00:38:02,676 --> 00:38:07,556 Speaker 1: terms of breadth or depth or just risk taking that 627 00:38:07,956 --> 00:38:11,196 Speaker 1: I felt strong only about. And and you do have 628 00:38:11,316 --> 00:38:14,076 Speaker 1: to layer on top of that the fact that right 629 00:38:14,116 --> 00:38:16,396 Speaker 1: around the time, you know, the year or so before 630 00:38:17,116 --> 00:38:21,516 Speaker 1: we started doing TUSK, that all of the new wave 631 00:38:21,596 --> 00:38:24,716 Speaker 1: stuff had had come over from the UK and Europe 632 00:38:24,796 --> 00:38:28,076 Speaker 1: and the you know, the new waves from America too, 633 00:38:28,156 --> 00:38:31,556 Speaker 1: So there was it wasn't so much that that stuff 634 00:38:31,636 --> 00:38:35,156 Speaker 1: influenced me per se. What it did do was it 635 00:38:35,236 --> 00:38:38,316 Speaker 1: just reinforced what I was already kind of feeling, and 636 00:38:38,356 --> 00:38:40,836 Speaker 1: it gave me more courage to act on it. I 637 00:38:40,876 --> 00:38:46,716 Speaker 1: think were there particular acts or sounds that you found 638 00:38:46,796 --> 00:38:50,916 Speaker 1: captivating or helped convince you this was the right way? Well, 639 00:38:50,956 --> 00:38:54,076 Speaker 1: I mean, again, there's nothing that I could say was 640 00:38:54,596 --> 00:38:57,956 Speaker 1: directly influential. But I mean I loved Elvis Costello, and 641 00:38:57,996 --> 00:39:00,796 Speaker 1: I love the Clash, and I loved the Police, and 642 00:39:01,316 --> 00:39:04,156 Speaker 1: I mean I loved Kukier things like Devo, you know. 643 00:39:04,876 --> 00:39:08,596 Speaker 1: So I mean it was all stuff which was undermining 644 00:39:08,596 --> 00:39:12,796 Speaker 1: the status quo in one way or another, and I 645 00:39:12,916 --> 00:39:15,636 Speaker 1: just felt that there was we were at a point 646 00:39:15,676 --> 00:39:19,756 Speaker 1: where we might again start painting ourselves into a corner. 647 00:39:19,996 --> 00:39:21,876 Speaker 1: And you see a lot of artists who do that 648 00:39:21,956 --> 00:39:26,796 Speaker 1: and they do follow through with solely the external expectations, 649 00:39:27,196 --> 00:39:30,036 Speaker 1: and they start to forget who they are, They start 650 00:39:30,076 --> 00:39:32,436 Speaker 1: to forget why they got into business in the first place. 651 00:39:33,596 --> 00:39:36,276 Speaker 1: And it's if you don't, if you're not protective of 652 00:39:36,356 --> 00:39:40,236 Speaker 1: your creative world, and you start to let it go, 653 00:39:40,476 --> 00:39:43,756 Speaker 1: it's a lot harder to get it back. How's it 654 00:39:43,796 --> 00:39:46,956 Speaker 1: been dealing with Warner over the years? Then? For that reason? 655 00:39:47,276 --> 00:39:50,276 Speaker 1: You know, I know there was a time I can't 656 00:39:50,276 --> 00:39:53,076 Speaker 1: remember what solo album it was, but the label wanted 657 00:39:53,116 --> 00:39:54,876 Speaker 1: you to hold off and they wanted some of the 658 00:39:54,916 --> 00:39:58,236 Speaker 1: songs for Fleetwood Mac. Have you found they've been as 659 00:39:58,276 --> 00:40:01,316 Speaker 1: accommodating or do you always feel the pressure to, like, 660 00:40:01,556 --> 00:40:04,076 Speaker 1: can't you guys just do rumors again and make us 661 00:40:04,116 --> 00:40:10,836 Speaker 1: a billion dollars? Well, you know, sort of came the 662 00:40:11,316 --> 00:40:16,316 Speaker 1: kind of retro reaction did not come from Warner. It 663 00:40:16,436 --> 00:40:20,396 Speaker 1: came really from from Mick and the band. But yes, 664 00:40:20,956 --> 00:40:22,956 Speaker 1: and I'll get to that in a second. But no, Warner, 665 00:40:23,196 --> 00:40:27,676 Speaker 1: from my experience with Warners has always been good because 666 00:40:28,716 --> 00:40:31,396 Speaker 1: the people that were there, whether it was Mohawson or 667 00:40:31,516 --> 00:40:37,036 Speaker 1: Lenny Warrenker, I will say that I always felt like 668 00:40:37,076 --> 00:40:39,956 Speaker 1: they didn't quite know what to do with my solo albums, 669 00:40:40,556 --> 00:40:44,156 Speaker 1: and again I can't blame them for that because the 670 00:40:44,276 --> 00:40:48,156 Speaker 1: albums are not Fleetwood Mac albums, and I think they 671 00:40:48,196 --> 00:40:52,916 Speaker 1: were probably sometimes as baffled by some of the contents 672 00:40:53,156 --> 00:40:56,476 Speaker 1: as the fans were. And that's a choice you make, 673 00:40:56,516 --> 00:40:59,796 Speaker 1: you know, if you're if you're gonna pursue something that's 674 00:40:59,796 --> 00:41:03,036 Speaker 1: going to help you grow artistically that maybe you can't 675 00:41:03,076 --> 00:41:06,436 Speaker 1: do in Fleewood Mac, and you lose nine tenths of 676 00:41:06,516 --> 00:41:09,276 Speaker 1: your audience doing it, then you've made a choice. But 677 00:41:09,356 --> 00:41:12,276 Speaker 1: you know, the idea of going back to a rumor's 678 00:41:12,276 --> 00:41:16,316 Speaker 1: too or something more conservative was actually orchestrated by Mick 679 00:41:16,476 --> 00:41:20,036 Speaker 1: himself because what happened in the in the post Tusk 680 00:41:20,156 --> 00:41:24,636 Speaker 1: environment was that the band had gotten very drawn into 681 00:41:24,836 --> 00:41:27,676 Speaker 1: the album when we put it out and was very 682 00:41:27,676 --> 00:41:30,876 Speaker 1: happy with it. But when it and it was a 683 00:41:30,916 --> 00:41:34,276 Speaker 1: double album, right, but when it didn't sell another sixteen million, 684 00:41:34,356 --> 00:41:36,196 Speaker 1: and I think you know, as a double album it 685 00:41:36,276 --> 00:41:40,116 Speaker 1: probably initially sold something like four and so Mick came 686 00:41:40,156 --> 00:41:42,436 Speaker 1: to me one day and he said, well, lindsay, we're 687 00:41:42,476 --> 00:41:44,876 Speaker 1: not going to do that again. You know, because I 688 00:41:44,916 --> 00:41:47,356 Speaker 1: was working out of my house, and I was bringing 689 00:41:47,356 --> 00:41:50,436 Speaker 1: in tracks that I had started and having them add 690 00:41:50,476 --> 00:41:53,396 Speaker 1: stuff to them and sort of combining the movie making 691 00:41:53,436 --> 00:41:57,316 Speaker 1: in the painting. And there's there's some pretty uh, you know, 692 00:41:57,396 --> 00:42:01,436 Speaker 1: experimental things on Tusk, especially of mine, and so Mick 693 00:42:01,476 --> 00:42:04,796 Speaker 1: put the kaibosh on that. And it was really only 694 00:42:04,836 --> 00:42:07,876 Speaker 1: then that I started making solo albums because I realized 695 00:42:07,916 --> 00:42:11,836 Speaker 1: that if I were to continue to explore the left 696 00:42:11,876 --> 00:42:15,276 Speaker 1: side of my palette and was being prevented from doing 697 00:42:15,316 --> 00:42:18,596 Speaker 1: so in the context of Fleawood Mac, the only way 698 00:42:18,636 --> 00:42:21,556 Speaker 1: I could do it was on solo albums. But you 699 00:42:21,676 --> 00:42:24,996 Speaker 1: did hits on solo. I think your first album had Trouble, 700 00:42:25,076 --> 00:42:27,796 Speaker 1: which was a big hit, Trouble, and then there is 701 00:42:27,836 --> 00:42:30,436 Speaker 1: go Insane on the second one. But you know, they've 702 00:42:30,476 --> 00:42:34,236 Speaker 1: been a little fewer and far between, and and obviously 703 00:42:34,276 --> 00:42:38,956 Speaker 1: I'm my drawing power on live shows is completely different, 704 00:42:39,036 --> 00:42:42,436 Speaker 1: you know, although I will much rather play a theater 705 00:42:42,516 --> 00:42:47,236 Speaker 1: than an arena, just aesthetically, you know. So we have 706 00:42:47,276 --> 00:42:49,276 Speaker 1: to take a quick break, but we'll be right back 707 00:42:49,276 --> 00:42:55,796 Speaker 1: with more from Lindsey Buckingham. We're back with the rest 708 00:42:55,796 --> 00:42:59,956 Speaker 1: of Bruce Hudlam's interview with Lindsay Buckingham. People know, you 709 00:42:59,996 --> 00:43:05,036 Speaker 1: know about the all the drama around rumors and the 710 00:43:05,036 --> 00:43:08,316 Speaker 1: couple's breaking up and everything. Those are very well known stories. 711 00:43:09,116 --> 00:43:12,716 Speaker 1: I was amazed to read that. I think on the 712 00:43:13,316 --> 00:43:15,676 Speaker 1: first time you left the band it was eighty seven, 713 00:43:15,956 --> 00:43:18,636 Speaker 1: maybe was it after Tango? I think, yes, that's right 714 00:43:18,876 --> 00:43:21,276 Speaker 1: that you know you said you left in part because 715 00:43:21,276 --> 00:43:24,716 Speaker 1: the drug use was so heavy, and I think I 716 00:43:24,796 --> 00:43:27,836 Speaker 1: think something that like Mick was living in a trailer 717 00:43:27,876 --> 00:43:31,676 Speaker 1: on your lawn or something. What happened was we recorded 718 00:43:31,716 --> 00:43:34,556 Speaker 1: the Tango in the Night album at my house. I 719 00:43:34,636 --> 00:43:38,476 Speaker 1: had a studio in what had been my garage, and 720 00:43:39,716 --> 00:43:45,836 Speaker 1: the alcohol and substance intake, which had been a part 721 00:43:45,876 --> 00:43:50,436 Speaker 1: of the subculture for everyone, you know for years, it 722 00:43:50,516 --> 00:43:54,076 Speaker 1: was starting to hit critical mass, you know. So during 723 00:43:54,116 --> 00:43:56,436 Speaker 1: the making of Tango in the Night and trying to 724 00:43:56,476 --> 00:44:00,956 Speaker 1: produce that album, it got to be quite difficult because 725 00:44:01,956 --> 00:44:05,156 Speaker 1: people just weren't all there some of the time physically 726 00:44:05,316 --> 00:44:10,076 Speaker 1: or mentally. And I think out of the X number 727 00:44:10,116 --> 00:44:12,436 Speaker 1: of months, probably close to a year that it took 728 00:44:12,476 --> 00:44:15,036 Speaker 1: us to make that album, we probably only saw Stevie 729 00:44:15,036 --> 00:44:19,036 Speaker 1: for a few weeks and Mick was actually living in 730 00:44:19,076 --> 00:44:21,756 Speaker 1: a trailer for quite a while in my front yard 731 00:44:21,876 --> 00:44:24,996 Speaker 1: because he didn't want to drive home at night when 732 00:44:25,436 --> 00:44:29,076 Speaker 1: the sessions were over. So yeah, I mean, and so 733 00:44:29,316 --> 00:44:32,596 Speaker 1: when we finished with the album, and I was quite 734 00:44:32,636 --> 00:44:36,716 Speaker 1: happy with the result. I felt we'd triumphed over adversity 735 00:44:36,756 --> 00:44:39,396 Speaker 1: to a point. And I'm still really proud of that album. 736 00:44:39,596 --> 00:44:41,716 Speaker 1: Had a bunch of hits, that album, Yeah, and it 737 00:44:42,036 --> 00:44:44,516 Speaker 1: had elements of what I'd learned. You can make a 738 00:44:44,516 --> 00:44:47,956 Speaker 1: connection between some of the tonality of like go Insane 739 00:44:48,036 --> 00:44:51,996 Speaker 1: and Tango in the Night, And so I was happy 740 00:44:52,036 --> 00:44:55,356 Speaker 1: with that. But I and then I started thinking about 741 00:44:55,356 --> 00:44:58,436 Speaker 1: the road and how the road in terms of craziness 742 00:44:58,596 --> 00:45:01,156 Speaker 1: is usually about times ten what the studio is, and 743 00:45:01,196 --> 00:45:03,836 Speaker 1: I thought, I don't think I can do this, you know, 744 00:45:03,916 --> 00:45:06,836 Speaker 1: I think I need to make a little survival move here, 745 00:45:06,916 --> 00:45:10,236 Speaker 1: and so I opted out of the tour, much to 746 00:45:10,316 --> 00:45:14,636 Speaker 1: everyone's disappointment, but you know, clearly it was a good 747 00:45:14,676 --> 00:45:17,276 Speaker 1: thing for me at that time. You know, your other 748 00:45:17,396 --> 00:45:20,796 Speaker 1: long relationship in the music business is with Irving asof 749 00:45:21,316 --> 00:45:24,796 Speaker 1: who you know was your agent, but he's the one 750 00:45:25,276 --> 00:45:27,676 Speaker 1: who phoned you a couple of years ago and said 751 00:45:28,276 --> 00:45:30,356 Speaker 1: they don't want to tour with you anymore. I mean, 752 00:45:30,436 --> 00:45:33,156 Speaker 1: was that weird to hear from from the guy who 753 00:45:33,196 --> 00:45:35,836 Speaker 1: had been represented? Well, is he your agent or is 754 00:45:35,836 --> 00:45:38,596 Speaker 1: he the band's agent? Or well he was. He was 755 00:45:38,676 --> 00:45:43,076 Speaker 1: my manager for a number of years, and he was 756 00:45:43,796 --> 00:45:46,636 Speaker 1: an agent in a sense that he was, you know, 757 00:45:47,076 --> 00:45:50,996 Speaker 1: putting he was involved in putting together Fleetwood Mac tours 758 00:45:50,996 --> 00:45:53,556 Speaker 1: and was taking a cut of those tours. So in 759 00:45:53,556 --> 00:45:55,916 Speaker 1: a sense he was an agent for the band, but 760 00:45:55,996 --> 00:45:58,996 Speaker 1: he was my manager. And I would have to say 761 00:45:59,036 --> 00:46:02,356 Speaker 1: about Irving. I mean, I like Irving, but you know, 762 00:46:03,076 --> 00:46:07,996 Speaker 1: he probably never would have gotten involved with me just 763 00:46:08,116 --> 00:46:12,156 Speaker 1: for my solo endeavors. In fact that of all the 764 00:46:12,196 --> 00:46:16,116 Speaker 1: time that we worked together, I think he came to 765 00:46:16,436 --> 00:46:22,596 Speaker 1: one solo show of mine, really, And yeah, and you know, 766 00:46:22,676 --> 00:46:27,556 Speaker 1: obviously Fleetwood Mac was where the money was, and he's, 767 00:46:28,076 --> 00:46:30,876 Speaker 1: shall we say, been known to follow the money. And 768 00:46:30,956 --> 00:46:37,236 Speaker 1: so if you backtrack to this whole the atmosphere that 769 00:46:37,316 --> 00:46:40,956 Speaker 1: was created right before that, which was actually brought on 770 00:46:41,036 --> 00:46:43,396 Speaker 1: by what I was talking about before about my asking 771 00:46:43,436 --> 00:46:46,396 Speaker 1: for those three months to tour before the Fleetwood Mac 772 00:46:46,396 --> 00:46:51,836 Speaker 1: tour started, that was the beginning of the tension that 773 00:46:51,996 --> 00:46:55,516 Speaker 1: led to what certain members or a member or I 774 00:46:55,556 --> 00:47:04,436 Speaker 1: should say eventually orchestrated, and Irving I don't know what 775 00:47:04,476 --> 00:47:06,476 Speaker 1: to say about that. I mean, I think he was 776 00:47:06,676 --> 00:47:09,956 Speaker 1: as invested in the Fleetwood Mac tour at that point 777 00:47:09,996 --> 00:47:15,716 Speaker 1: as he was in protecting me. And so when someone 778 00:47:15,756 --> 00:47:19,756 Speaker 1: in the band calls him and tells him, I don't 779 00:47:19,836 --> 00:47:23,076 Speaker 1: I don't want to be on stage with Lindsay anymore, 780 00:47:23,756 --> 00:47:26,996 Speaker 1: I find or I found in that circumstance he wasn't 781 00:47:26,996 --> 00:47:32,076 Speaker 1: really standing up for me. He was, you know, passing 782 00:47:32,076 --> 00:47:36,156 Speaker 1: on information, but he was arguably throwing me under the 783 00:47:36,156 --> 00:47:39,716 Speaker 1: bus a little bit, you know. So that that that 784 00:47:39,796 --> 00:47:44,156 Speaker 1: was how our relationship ended. Because after that, even though 785 00:47:44,196 --> 00:47:48,036 Speaker 1: I expressed some interest in continuing to work with him, 786 00:47:48,076 --> 00:47:52,436 Speaker 1: it didn't happen. And so you know, that was that 787 00:47:52,556 --> 00:47:55,196 Speaker 1: was it with Irving. There's one song on the new 788 00:47:55,236 --> 00:47:57,676 Speaker 1: album that is about Fleetwood Mac on the Wrong Side. 789 00:47:57,756 --> 00:48:00,836 Speaker 1: Can you tell me a bit about writing that? Well, 790 00:48:00,876 --> 00:48:04,916 Speaker 1: I think I was just in a situation where I 791 00:48:04,956 --> 00:48:10,116 Speaker 1: had already begun to feel that that some of the 792 00:48:09,116 --> 00:48:15,196 Speaker 1: the ethic that you could say was sort of shared 793 00:48:15,276 --> 00:48:19,956 Speaker 1: by everyone was sort of moving too far away from 794 00:48:19,996 --> 00:48:24,516 Speaker 1: my idealism, which I was still maintaining. And you know, 795 00:48:24,556 --> 00:48:27,116 Speaker 1: the older you get and the more it just becomes 796 00:48:27,236 --> 00:48:29,756 Speaker 1: a gig or a job, and the more that you 797 00:48:30,196 --> 00:48:33,316 Speaker 1: have played that same group of songs over and over again, 798 00:48:33,436 --> 00:48:37,076 Speaker 1: so you know, you see people start to kind of 799 00:48:37,196 --> 00:48:42,036 Speaker 1: give up the possibility of growth on a creative level. 800 00:48:42,196 --> 00:48:46,916 Speaker 1: And you know, different people wanting different things also plays 801 00:48:46,996 --> 00:48:50,076 Speaker 1: into that. I mean, you get the inter band politics, 802 00:48:50,116 --> 00:48:54,316 Speaker 1: which can often thwart a greater potential that we might 803 00:48:54,356 --> 00:48:56,316 Speaker 1: have had as a band, maybe to go in and 804 00:48:56,356 --> 00:49:00,036 Speaker 1: make another album or to do many other things. And 805 00:49:00,076 --> 00:49:02,916 Speaker 1: I think all of that was starting to make me 806 00:49:02,956 --> 00:49:07,276 Speaker 1: feel like I'd been in this game now for so 807 00:49:07,316 --> 00:49:10,916 Speaker 1: many years and I wouldn't have traded it for the world, 808 00:49:11,676 --> 00:49:15,116 Speaker 1: but that it was this high pressure kind of situation 809 00:49:15,956 --> 00:49:20,596 Speaker 1: that I was starting to feel I was getting a 810 00:49:20,636 --> 00:49:23,836 Speaker 1: little tired of and was losing touch with a little bit. 811 00:49:24,476 --> 00:49:27,156 Speaker 1: And it sometimes made me feel that I was a 812 00:49:27,156 --> 00:49:29,356 Speaker 1: bit on the wrong side by being a part of it. 813 00:49:30,676 --> 00:49:33,396 Speaker 1: So you're going out on tour with this album. What's 814 00:49:33,436 --> 00:49:35,116 Speaker 1: that going to feel like to go out and play 815 00:49:35,116 --> 00:49:38,396 Speaker 1: in front of people after all this time. I'm not 816 00:49:38,476 --> 00:49:40,676 Speaker 1: sure what it's going to feel like. You know, we've 817 00:49:40,676 --> 00:49:46,116 Speaker 1: only been in rehearsal for about three weeks, and probably 818 00:49:46,196 --> 00:49:48,876 Speaker 1: this week we will start running the set, the whole 819 00:49:48,916 --> 00:49:52,796 Speaker 1: set that we've got once or twice a day. And 820 00:49:53,316 --> 00:49:56,356 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it's been a long time. I'm 821 00:49:56,436 --> 00:49:59,716 Speaker 1: not sure if the bypass I had a couple of 822 00:49:59,756 --> 00:50:04,116 Speaker 1: years ago was going to have any effect on my stamina. 823 00:50:04,476 --> 00:50:06,996 Speaker 1: You know, there are some finer points that are still 824 00:50:07,076 --> 00:50:10,156 Speaker 1: yet to be revealed about it, but beyond that, and 825 00:50:10,276 --> 00:50:13,156 Speaker 1: of course, you know, it was very surreal sitting around 826 00:50:13,196 --> 00:50:16,236 Speaker 1: for a year plus during the pandemic, as it was 827 00:50:16,276 --> 00:50:20,196 Speaker 1: for everyone. So you know, it's just it just feels 828 00:50:20,236 --> 00:50:25,036 Speaker 1: like it's been so long since this album was actually done, 829 00:50:25,796 --> 00:50:31,316 Speaker 1: and so much has happened that's been, shall we say, challenging. 830 00:50:31,916 --> 00:50:34,596 Speaker 1: So I mean, I feel like I'm a different person 831 00:50:34,636 --> 00:50:37,516 Speaker 1: than I was when I first wanted to tour this 832 00:50:37,556 --> 00:50:41,396 Speaker 1: album three plus years ago. So it is going to 833 00:50:41,476 --> 00:50:45,116 Speaker 1: be interesting to see how it all plays out. Okay, well, 834 00:50:45,156 --> 00:50:47,156 Speaker 1: people should go see it because it's a great album. 835 00:50:47,236 --> 00:50:49,596 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you so much for doing this. It's 836 00:50:49,596 --> 00:50:52,516 Speaker 1: just been terrific to talk to you. My pleasure. Thanks 837 00:50:52,516 --> 00:50:58,196 Speaker 1: for having me. Thanks to Lindsay Buckingham for taking us 838 00:50:58,196 --> 00:51:00,876 Speaker 1: through his musical history. You can check out his new 839 00:51:00,876 --> 00:51:03,836 Speaker 1: self titled album plus all of our favorite Lindsey Buckingham 840 00:51:03,836 --> 00:51:07,356 Speaker 1: and Fleetwood Max songs at broken Record podcast dot com. 841 00:51:07,836 --> 00:51:10,676 Speaker 1: Be sure to subscribed to herube channel at YouTube dot 842 00:51:10,676 --> 00:51:13,916 Speaker 1: com slash broken Record Podcast, where we can find all 843 00:51:13,916 --> 00:51:16,876 Speaker 1: of our new repuscois. You can follow us on Twitter 844 00:51:16,956 --> 00:51:20,276 Speaker 1: at broken Record. Broken Record is produced with help from 845 00:51:20,356 --> 00:51:25,716 Speaker 1: Lea Rose, Jason Cambrel, Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler from Jennifer Sanchez, 846 00:51:25,916 --> 00:51:30,356 Speaker 1: with engineering help from Nick Chafey. Our executive producer is Melabat. 847 00:51:30,996 --> 00:51:34,116 Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you 848 00:51:34,196 --> 00:51:37,676 Speaker 1: love this show and others from Pushkin Industries, consider becoming 849 00:51:37,756 --> 00:51:41,836 Speaker 1: a Pushnick. Pushnick is a podcast subscription that offers bonus 850 00:51:41,876 --> 00:51:45,436 Speaker 1: content and uninterrupted ad free listening for four ninety nine 851 00:51:45,476 --> 00:51:49,596 Speaker 1: a month. Look for Pushnick exclusively on Apple podcast subscriptions, 852 00:51:50,036 --> 00:51:52,476 Speaker 1: and if you like the show, please remember to share, rate, 853 00:51:52,556 --> 00:51:55,316 Speaker 1: and review us on our podcast at Our theme musics 854 00:51:55,316 --> 00:51:57,156 Speaker 1: by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richard