WEBVTT - Coronavirus Thrust the Nation Into Remote Learning... It Didn't Work

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<v Speaker 1>It's Friday, June twelve. I'm Oscar Emrrors from the Daily

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<v Speaker 1>Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is Reopening America.

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<v Speaker 1>We have shifted into a new phase in the coronavirus pandemic.

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<v Speaker 1>We are social distancing, washing our hands, learning face masks,

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<v Speaker 1>and we are reopening America. I'll still give you updates

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<v Speaker 1>on any new information about the virus and vaccine development,

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<v Speaker 1>but I will also be focusing on how cities, states,

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<v Speaker 1>and industries affected by the shutdown are opening back up.

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<v Speaker 1>When the country shut down to help prevent the spread

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<v Speaker 1>of coronavirus, it was also thrust into the learning experiment

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<v Speaker 1>of mass remote learning. As the end of the school

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<v Speaker 1>year approaches, the results are in. It didn't work. The

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<v Speaker 1>problems quickly stacked up in school districts ill equipped to

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<v Speaker 1>make such drastic changes. Some students lacked access to computers

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<v Speaker 1>or internet, teachers had no experience with remote learning, and

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<v Speaker 1>some parents were unavailable to help. Lee Hawkins, education reporter

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<v Speaker 1>at the Wall Street Journal, joins us for how the

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<v Speaker 1>remote learning experiment went and what's on deck for next year.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for joining us, Lee, Thanks for having me. I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to talk about what happened to our schools this

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<v Speaker 1>past year because of the coronavirus pandemic. Everybody was forced

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<v Speaker 1>into this grand experiment, so to speak, of mass remote learning.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it was more than fifty million students from

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<v Speaker 1>kindergarten all the way to twelfth grade had to use technology,

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<v Speaker 1>and the teachers and the parents became this whole thing.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, after doing this for a few months,

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<v Speaker 1>it's kind of the end of the school year. Now

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<v Speaker 1>people are starting to think ahead, what's going to happen

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<v Speaker 1>for this next school year. It seems like everybody roundly

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<v Speaker 1>agrees that it was a pretty big failure due to

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<v Speaker 1>a whole host of different reasons. Lee tell us a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit about it. There's some debate on whether or

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<v Speaker 1>not it was a failure. In our story, we talk

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<v Speaker 1>about the fact that many of the teachers and administrators

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<v Speaker 1>that we interviewed said that it was a failure, and

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<v Speaker 1>there were many, many problems with the adoption of it,

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<v Speaker 1>and so the things that didn't work were a direct

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<v Speaker 1>result of the way it started. It was very sudden,

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<v Speaker 1>it was abrupt, it was unexpected. All of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 1>we had this coronavirus that came from overseas, and next thing,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, as the number started the skyrocket, the leadership

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<v Speaker 1>at many of the schools and the major cities and

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<v Speaker 1>even in rural areas across this country were kind of

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<v Speaker 1>reluctant to closed schools because they didn't know how to

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<v Speaker 1>implement it in the future, how to implement remote learning

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<v Speaker 1>over that time off. And so the fact that it

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<v Speaker 1>was so abrupt and that there wasn't a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>notice meant that there wasn't a lot of training. And

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that there wasn't a lot of training, and

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that children didn't have the devices that they needed,

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<v Speaker 1>all of the children because of economic disparities, that only

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<v Speaker 1>compounded the problem. So if there would have been more

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<v Speaker 1>adequate training on the front end, it probably would have

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<v Speaker 1>been a much smoother transition. But that actually haunted most

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<v Speaker 1>of the schools in this country and has haunted most

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<v Speaker 1>of the schools in this country all the way through

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<v Speaker 1>the entire semester. We'll get into a lot of different specifics.

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<v Speaker 1>The first thing I want to bring up, though, I

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<v Speaker 1>think there's a name for it, even the COVID slide,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is kind of the learning gap for the

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<v Speaker 1>kids during this last few months. This whole time, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe they're not learning at the same level anymore. I

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<v Speaker 1>think there was a few statistics about it too, that

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<v Speaker 1>kids are gonna return to school in the fall with

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<v Speaker 1>roughly seventy of the learning gains in reading relative to

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<v Speaker 1>a typical school year, and for math it's only so

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<v Speaker 1>that's kind of most concerning to me too, is kids

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<v Speaker 1>advancing to the next grade harder things that they're supposed

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<v Speaker 1>to be learning, and they might not be prepared for it.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot gets lost in translation when you're talking about

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<v Speaker 1>teaching over a computer as opposed to teaching face to face.

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<v Speaker 1>There were many students that struggled, particularly special needs students

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<v Speaker 1>and students with a d h D, students with autism,

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<v Speaker 1>but even more than that, students who are more visual

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<v Speaker 1>learners who need to connect with their teach jersey in

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<v Speaker 1>order to be able to comprehend the information. I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>surprised at the difference between the performance of students and

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<v Speaker 1>reading versus math, because once again, math is a very

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<v Speaker 1>hands on endeavor, something that you need to actually maybe

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<v Speaker 1>have follow up questions on. So that was one of

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<v Speaker 1>the things that contributed to this COVID slide and it's

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<v Speaker 1>going to require that schools, particularly like the New York

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<v Speaker 1>Public School System, do some remedial training. This summer, the

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<v Speaker 1>New York Public School System is going to be putting

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<v Speaker 1>over a hundred and fifty thousand kids in summer school,

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<v Speaker 1>and a lot of those students were put there because

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<v Speaker 1>they need to catch up, and so the crips are

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<v Speaker 1>now if that if schools reopened in the fall, that

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<v Speaker 1>there will need to be even more review work to

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<v Speaker 1>bring those kids up to speed. And if they don't

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<v Speaker 1>do the review work, the question is will there be

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<v Speaker 1>some learning loss that is long term that we start

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<v Speaker 1>to see in standardized tests and tests to get to

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<v Speaker 1>the next grade. So over time we're going to see

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<v Speaker 1>how big this social experiment of remote learning full time

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<v Speaker 1>the impact was on children long term, and that summer

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<v Speaker 1>school is probably going to be done remote learning as well.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's kind of continuing that when a sense there.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to also talk about grading because this was

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<v Speaker 1>one of the things that you keep reading into a

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<v Speaker 1>little more and you're kind of like, oh my gosh,

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<v Speaker 1>you're not gonna be able to hold these kids accountable,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess for learning, and it's tough. I know that

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<v Speaker 1>there's huge problems with access, but we're talking about them

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<v Speaker 1>not learning the right materials and if they advanced in

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<v Speaker 1>the next grade, they're not going to be prepared. What

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of school districts were even doing, will say,

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<v Speaker 1>don't issue grades that would be harmful, don't issue F grades.

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<v Speaker 1>I think some school districts even banned the F grades.

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<v Speaker 1>There was a lot of things. They're called hold harmless,

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<v Speaker 1>So don't give grades that would negatively affect students, but

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<v Speaker 1>ones that are neutral or help advance them, those are permitted.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell us a little bit about grading. There was a

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<v Speaker 1>wide range of grading processes that happened across school Talk

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<v Speaker 1>to people at private schools who gave an option of

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<v Speaker 1>past fail credit, no credit, things like that, because listen,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're spending fifty dollars a year to go to

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<v Speaker 1>an elite school in New York or something like that,

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<v Speaker 1>poor grades are things that can haunt you when it's

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<v Speaker 1>time to apply for college. And I think teachers and

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<v Speaker 1>administrators understood that students should not be penalized if they

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<v Speaker 1>did not perform well in remote learning environment. And it's

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<v Speaker 1>not always because they don't get the remote learning. There

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<v Speaker 1>can be family dynamics that are going on in the home.

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<v Speaker 1>We see domestic violence suits up in periods like this,

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<v Speaker 1>and reports of police coming to the home, and poverty

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<v Speaker 1>and children not having access to consistent meals. These are

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<v Speaker 1>all things that build the Blasio, the mayor of New

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<v Speaker 1>York City, was very concerned about. And so the whole

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<v Speaker 1>idea is, if you penalize kids for adverse childhood experiences

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<v Speaker 1>that interfere with their ability to do well on remote learning,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not fair to see their grades suffer because everybody

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<v Speaker 1>needs to be on an equal plane in order to

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<v Speaker 1>really grade everybody fairly. I mean, there's so much that's

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<v Speaker 1>wrapped into this, and I'm just kind of moving through

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<v Speaker 1>some of the points. Taking attendance was such a big

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<v Speaker 1>hurdle for a lot of teachers and for the students themselves.

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<v Speaker 1>They had a few statistics already showing that some of

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<v Speaker 1>the kids weren't even showing up as soon as they

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<v Speaker 1>were kind of getting when that maybe they weren't giving

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<v Speaker 1>the fail grades out things like that. I think in

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<v Speaker 1>Los Angeles, for the l A Unified School District, they

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<v Speaker 1>estimated that on any given day in a week span

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<v Speaker 1>of high school students didn't even log in to do

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<v Speaker 1>the remote learning. That's pretty crazy. A lot of our

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<v Speaker 1>educational values come from our parents, but they also come

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<v Speaker 1>from the financial and economic situation that we're in. There

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<v Speaker 1>are many children who are babysitting siblings, there are many

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<v Speaker 1>children who have to share a device with four other siblings,

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<v Speaker 1>and there are many children who may have other responsibilities

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<v Speaker 1>or things to worry about, and their parents may not

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<v Speaker 1>be aggressive about telling them to log into school. At

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<v Speaker 1>the ten year old has to use his or her

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<v Speaker 1>own motivation to log into school. A lot of the

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<v Speaker 1>times they may not do that unless they're reminded to

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<v Speaker 1>do so. So, once again, there were many, many students

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<v Speaker 1>who did not log in for these classes, sometimes maybe

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<v Speaker 1>not even understanding how critical it was for them to

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<v Speaker 1>do that, because once again, they are children, and there's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of social and emotional learning that happened in

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<v Speaker 1>a time of crisis, and this certainly can be characterized

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<v Speaker 1>as a crisis. So there was an attendance crisis as

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<v Speaker 1>a result. Let's talk about parents. You brought them up

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit. They were put in an especially hard

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<v Speaker 1>place as well. Many parents aren't necessarily adept to teaching.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe life lessons, yes, but maybe not the book stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>And they were kind of thrust into this position of

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<v Speaker 1>having to be teacher and as you mentioned, having to

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<v Speaker 1>reinforce everything, Hey make sure you log in, make sure

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<v Speaker 1>you attend the class, all this stuff. So the parents

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<v Speaker 1>are put in a really hard place with this. This

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<v Speaker 1>whole process has made people appreciate teachers so much more.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, there's a reason that teachers just go to

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<v Speaker 1>college and even get paid more if they receive a

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<v Speaker 1>master's degree, because it's not just about a parent's ability

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<v Speaker 1>to understand and comprehend the material. A parent to step

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<v Speaker 1>into a teacher's role effectively would need to understand the

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<v Speaker 1>communication and interpersonal connection techniques that teachers use on a

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<v Speaker 1>day to day basis to pull the best out of

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<v Speaker 1>their students. And in a class of thirty students, a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of times there can be clusters of students who

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<v Speaker 1>have different ways of learning, and it's the job of

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<v Speaker 1>the teacher to read those students. You can have a

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<v Speaker 1>relationship with your child and not really know how to

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<v Speaker 1>connect to them in a classroom. And there are a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of parents that were put under a tremendous amount

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<v Speaker 1>of pressure because they had more than one child many times,

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<v Speaker 1>and having to jump from child to child to help

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<v Speaker 1>each of them finish their work. And with the younger students,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a much more challenging and it's actually much more

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<v Speaker 1>critical because if you're dealing with an elementary student, that's

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<v Speaker 1>a student who is learning fundamental skills related to math

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<v Speaker 1>and reading, and if they missed these lessons at this stage,

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<v Speaker 1>they could have severe problems in the future. And we

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<v Speaker 1>were essentially relying on the parents to be teaching these skills.

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<v Speaker 1>It would be very, very hard, probably for anybody who

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't have formal training as a teacher to figure out

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<v Speaker 1>how to teach a third grader math and to answer

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<v Speaker 1>questions in a way that that young person can comprehend

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<v Speaker 1>it so it can connect on paper and in the mind.

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<v Speaker 1>That's very difficult, and it's a special gift that teachers have,

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<v Speaker 1>which is the reason why teachers are teachers. So the

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<v Speaker 1>school years ending, everybody's already looking ahead to, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>as you mentioned earlier, summer school even and then what's

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<v Speaker 1>beyond that going back to school in the fall. What's

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<v Speaker 1>going to be the plan. I'm seeing a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>things about a hybrid system which would basically be still

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<v Speaker 1>some remote learning and then cycling kids in and out

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<v Speaker 1>of live school instruction as well. It's one of the

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<v Speaker 1>hardest things that public policy experts and union representatives and

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<v Speaker 1>politicians and education administrators have to do is to come

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<v Speaker 1>together with the plan to get kids back to school safely.

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<v Speaker 1>So that plan needs to include social distancing and imagine

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<v Speaker 1>what it would be like to try to convince a

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<v Speaker 1>kindergartener to keep their mask on, or to have classes

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<v Speaker 1>that are normally thirty students be shrunk to fifteen students.

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<v Speaker 1>There's so many different considerations. Even in the way that

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<v Speaker 1>the buildings are set up, there are problems with ventilation

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<v Speaker 1>and all kinds of infrastructure issues that need to be addressed,

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<v Speaker 1>and all of this they're trying to do before the fall.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's very likely that there will be some kind

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<v Speaker 1>of blended learning or how hybrid learning system that combine

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<v Speaker 1>remote learning with face to face instruction. In some cases,

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<v Speaker 1>you're hearing that kids could be going to school on Monday, Wednesday,

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<v Speaker 1>Fridays and then switch to remote learning and then allow

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<v Speaker 1>the other group of kids to go on Tuesdays and Thursdays,

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<v Speaker 1>and then they switched to remote learning. They are all

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<v Speaker 1>kinds of different possible models and forms that this could take.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's still being hashed out across cities across the country.

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<v Speaker 1>And let's also remember that in some areas it's going

0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:33.640
<v Speaker 1>to be more challenging than others. The New York Public

0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:38.120
<v Speaker 1>School system has one point one million students. In some

0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:42.160
<v Speaker 1>rural areas, it may not be as daunting because they

0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.800
<v Speaker 1>may be able to pull off the social distancing requirements

0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.320
<v Speaker 1>just because of the fact that they don't have as

0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:52.040
<v Speaker 1>many students. So all of this is still being decided,

0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:55.680
<v Speaker 1>and we're going to see if schools starts as we

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<v Speaker 1>know it in the fog. There's a high, high possibility

0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:02.200
<v Speaker 1>that remote learning will be a permanent part of some

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<v Speaker 1>aspect of our future. Lee Hawkins, education reporter for The

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<v Speaker 1>Wall Street Journal, thank you very much for joining us.

0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:14.880
<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much, everybody. Stay safe. I'm Oscar Ramirez

0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:18.480
<v Speaker 1>and this is reopening America. Don't forget that. For today's

0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.280
<v Speaker 1>big news stories, you can check me out on the

0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.440
<v Speaker 1>Daily Dive podcast every Monday to Friday. So follow us

0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:25.960
<v Speaker 1>on our heart radio or wherever you get your podcast.