1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: Music Saved Me. I'm Lyn Hoffman and welcome to the 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Music Save Me podcast, the podcast where we delve into 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 1: the healing power of music. We also do another podcast 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: called Comedy Saved Me, and you can get that wherever 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. So thank you so much for listening. 6 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: I'm so excited. Today's episode is with someone who has 7 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: found a way to turn grief into something you can 8 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: actually hear. Brad Wolf is the founder and managing director 9 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: of Reimagine, an organization that's engaged more than two hundred 10 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: and fifty thousand people in conversations and creative experiences around grief, mortality, 11 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: and healing. Now under the name Brad Wolf and the Moon, 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: he's channeling that same mission into music with Loss, the 13 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: debut chapter of his Lost Life and Love mixtapes EP series. Now. 14 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: The first single is called Why Wait, and it was 15 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: written for his grandparents, who are Holocaust survivors who lived 16 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: through the horrors of Auschwitz and still built full, joyful 17 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: lives afterward. I can't wait to get into that with him. 18 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: It was released alongside a short film featuring his grandmother, Sally, 19 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: who passed away at the age of one hundred and 20 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: two God bless her. His new single, Cover You in 21 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: Flowers is even more personal. It was written after Brad 22 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 1: sat with a very close friend and reimagined volunteer as 23 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: she passed away of cancer at the tender age of 24 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,199 Speaker 1: thirty two, and captures the moment that her husband covered 25 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: her body in flowers right after she passed. This is 26 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: a conversation about presence, about what it means to sit 27 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: with someone at the end, and about why Brad believes 28 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: talking and now singing about death is really just a 29 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: way of talking about how to live, how to really live. 30 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: We talk with the talented Brad Wolf next right here 31 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: on Music Saved Me. Music Saved Me. Brad Wolf, Welcome 32 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: to Music Save Me. It's so great to have you here. 33 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so honored to. 34 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: Be well, it's an honor to have you in the 35 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: work that you're doing. I think, like Buzz mentioned earlier 36 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: when we were just signing on, it just typifies exactly 37 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: what we like to highlight here on this show. What 38 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: was the moment that made you decide that grief and 39 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: mortality needed their own platform and basically their own conversation. 40 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 2: I feel like it was Honestly, many many years ago, 41 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 2: near the time of nine to eleven, I had been 42 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 2: playing music at the time for people that someone that 43 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 2: had passed away in my life. I sat by my 44 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: friend Sarah's bedside. This is what kind of got me 45 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 2: started in that vein, and it was so healing for 46 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: me and and for Sarah. And after she passed away, 47 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 2: I launched a pediatric cancer foundation and started writing songs 48 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 2: for other young people that hadn't been diagnosed with cancer. 49 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: And somehow I would be invited to their funerals to 50 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 2: reprise the song that I had written for one of 51 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 2: these bright, shining young spirits while they were alive with 52 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 2: there were songs kind of about their loves and their passions, 53 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: and it was something to give them hope. Now I'm 54 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: there at their funerals after nine to eleven. It was 55 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 2: it was it was a moment in our country. It 56 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 2: felt like where man, people really came together for a 57 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: few minutes. There I'm at this the funeral, these these 58 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 2: these kids, and and it's so sad, right, there's nothing 59 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 2: more devastating the loss of a child. The whole communities around, 60 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: you know, the schools of these kids, around their peers, 61 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: just like, just like when Sarah died for me, everyone 62 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: stopped and came together, And I was just thinking about 63 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 2: on the collective level, and then on this personal level, 64 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: why is it that we need something so devastating to 65 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 2: help us pause and enter a state of loving connection 66 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 2: instead of division. Why can't we be in the spirit 67 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 2: of love and connection all the time? Are there things 68 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 2: about grief and about pain that teach us what really 69 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 2: matters most? And so the idea wasn't necessarily to create 70 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 2: a platform ultimately about the very end of our life. 71 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 2: It's about how do we take the things that we 72 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 2: can learn about grief and about how hard things can 73 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 2: refocus us on what matters and see if we can 74 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 2: be in that state of awareness all the time. Unfortunately, 75 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 2: today it feels like even our tragedies don't bring us together. 76 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: I agree. I moved to New York City six months 77 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: after nine to eleven, and I was petrified because I 78 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: heard it was a tough, angry city. And when I 79 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: got there, I couldn't believe how amazing everybody was and 80 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: how everyone came together, and you described it, it was 81 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: like a different city. It was an unbelievable city, and 82 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: it is sad that things have turned back around again, 83 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: sort of in that same vein, like you said, and 84 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: it's sad that we can't come together over just happy times. 85 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I guess that's why it feels like what 86 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 2: I've learned through this work and reimagine is sometimes and 87 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 2: you know, the Knicks just won the championship and people 88 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 2: were saying, wow in basketball, It's like it's like people 89 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 2: came together. It's so rare. These moments where people come 90 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 2: together is a rarity. Part of it feels like if 91 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 2: we can't talk about what's hard, if we can't be 92 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: with the real truth of life, then even something about 93 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 2: how we are with each other, it doesn't enable us 94 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 2: to fully even express and be cognizant of the happiest points. 95 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: It's like we have to figure out how to metabolize 96 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 2: all the stuff that we're seeing around us, all the 97 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: all all all the the news stories, all the the wars, 98 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 2: and the and the climate grief that people feel. And 99 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 2: there's so much that the the vision that we feel, 100 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 2: the political grief, the technological grief, and that's on top 101 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 2: of just the fact that it's just humans. We are, 102 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 2: our lives, you know, inevitably we have to deal with 103 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 2: things like like like death and serious illness and aging. 104 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 2: So it's just like a lot for people, it's a lot. 105 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 2: For me, it's a lot, you know, how do you 106 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 2: not go numb? And so part of what reimagines about 107 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 2: is about how do we turn toward these things but 108 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 2: in ways that actually bring us more alive, that make 109 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 2: us feel more connected, that make us feel more inspired 110 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 2: and actually flourished more. And I think like music, for example, 111 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 2: is one expression that was like, of how that's possible. 112 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 2: It's like out of pain, you know, in my life, 113 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 2: music has has emerged, and that is it doesn't take 114 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 2: away the hard parts and the sad parts of things 115 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: that I've experienced. But at the same time, I know 116 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 2: that there's something beautiful that's healing that's emerged from those 117 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 2: hard places. And it's like, how how could we help 118 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 2: everyone find their own music? 119 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and a like quarter of a billion people engaged 120 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: with this what you're doing. Did you have any sense 121 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: early on that this was the scale that you needed 122 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: to reach? Did you realize that this many people needed help? 123 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like we're just scratching the surface, 124 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 2: and I it's really about not about the number of 125 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 2: people that we reach, but it is I think it's 126 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 2: just indicative of like everyone is facing some kind of 127 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 2: grief in their life. Loss is just constantly around us, 128 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 2: whether it's a death loss, or whether it's or whether 129 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 2: it's financial loss, or whether it's loss of an identity, 130 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 2: or whether it's the loss of some kind of physical 131 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 2: ability as I mentioned through like the aging process, or 132 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 2: just the loss of a moment or even a freedom 133 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 2: that comes for some transition in life that that changes 134 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: your your path. We're constantly trying to metabolize loss, but 135 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 2: no one teaches us how. I mean, no one teaches 136 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 2: us how to say goodbye when we go to school. 137 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 2: And now you know, it's like there's so much messiness 138 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 2: around endings when it's just an inevitable part of life. 139 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 2: And so it doesn't surprise me. People actually want to 140 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 2: talk about it. People want to have people there for 141 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 2: them through the hard parts of life. People want to 142 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 2: be able to share about the things that they're going through. 143 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 2: But the wheels are not really greased because it's not 144 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 2: an education or an orientation that is really culturally accessible. 145 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 2: The main cultural thing people say is just go talk 146 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 2: about it and maybe you know and one on one 147 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 2: individual therapy in a room somewhere, but like, what about 148 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 2: with everyone else? 149 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: Right? Right? No, you're so right about that, And there 150 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: is nothing we're not equipped in an early age to 151 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: understand the cycle of life and things that happen and 152 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: how to deal with it. And I think talking is 153 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: part of it, like what we're doing publicly to try 154 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: to get as many people to hear it as possible. 155 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: But you're right, being in a one on one isn't 156 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: going to go anywhere. But when you hear a friend 157 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: went through the same thing, or even in someone that 158 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: you listen to went through the same thing, you start 159 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: to realize that, oh, okay, I'm not alone and this 160 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: is something that I have to face and deal with. 161 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: And you bringing, well, let me ask you, how is 162 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: your own understanding of grief changed? After sitting in side 163 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: these conversations for so many years. 164 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 2: It's changed a lot. Honestly. It is just shown me 165 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 2: how true it is that everyone has their own stuff, 166 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 2: you know, the hard parts of life? Yeah, are are 167 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 2: are inescapable? One of my colleagues says, you know, she 168 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: she actually is going through ovarian cancer right now. And 169 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 2: she and and you know in some ways. The diagnosis 170 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 2: came out of the blue, right, it's just like one 171 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 2: day and but but she said, what if what if 172 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 2: we're just like living in the blue all the time? 173 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 2: What if that is you know that that but we 174 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 2: treat it like it's out of the blue. And I 175 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 2: think there's this expression, you know, you can drown in 176 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 2: an ocean, and you can drown in three inches of water, 177 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 2: and and I feel like that's something else that I've 178 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: I've really learned is that it doesn't necessary. You know, 179 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 2: people might compare o It's like that wasn't traumatic, this 180 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: small loss, it's not a big deal. But but but 181 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 2: but each of us are going through things, are dealing 182 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 2: with with with these experiences that bring about pain and 183 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 2: a lot of for a lot of reasons, we we 184 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 2: can't talk about it. 185 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: A lot of people don't know what to say too. 186 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 2: We we just ran we just ran a survey, a 187 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 2: large scale survey with we we we have a donor. 188 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 2: We're nonprofit, so we have it. We have a donor 189 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 2: that stepped up and helped us launch a national survey. 190 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 2: And the number and people say it is hard to 191 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 2: show up for people. The number one reason that people 192 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 2: say it's hard to show up for people. Is they 193 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 2: don't know what to say. Yes, the number two reason 194 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 2: is they think they might say the wrong thing. Wow, 195 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 2: you know it's true. It's like there's no If there's 196 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 2: no education and we're scared, then then it just puts 197 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 2: us back in silence. 198 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: That proves it right there at the study, It's true 199 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: what you said, we're not we're not equipped, we're not taught, 200 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: and we don't know. And from reimagine getting this information 201 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: for you and obviously helping to help people through these 202 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: times to music, what made you decide that that next 203 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: chapter of the work you were doing needed to be 204 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: a song, not just another event or a conversation. 205 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 2: Oh well, it's it's I would say, it's almost more 206 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 2: sopeent the reverse. For me, music has been at the 207 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 2: heart of my well. 208 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: Brad Wolf in the Moon. I mean you started back 209 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, was it? 210 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 2: I mean, I've been crazy, but yeah, I've been playing 211 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 2: music since I was twelve and my parents bought a 212 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 2: guitar for my sister, which I quickly stole and I 213 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 2: never never really looked back. I mean it's more so 214 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 2: for me, it's like I discovered how powerful music was 215 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 2: as a vehicle when words just aren't always enough, and 216 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 2: there was something about it that is so connecting, and 217 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 2: it was like, wow, what other things are so connecting? 218 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 2: So throughout all of Reimagined, we've been around for ten years, 219 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 2: I haven't had the opportunity to release music, but I've 220 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 2: been making music consistently. It's the only thing that I 221 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 2: know how to, you know. It's where I turn to 222 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 2: channel my pain. And I've been recording these songs and 223 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 2: only now more recently am I finally releasing them, which 224 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 2: is coinciding at a really interesting time for Reimagine, because 225 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 2: we're just launching this platform that helps other people find 226 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 2: outlets for their own their own experiences. 227 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: Now, why the Moon as the name that you're making 228 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: music under? Is there a reason for that? 229 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 2: Well, I mean the cheeky reason is that that my 230 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 2: last name is wolf and I think I've always had 231 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 2: a connection with Wolfy like things that being said, you know, 232 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 2: And I don't know if this that's why I had 233 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 2: this connection with the Moon, but I do think that 234 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 2: I don't want to just be a solo artist, and 235 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 2: I don't want to be a solo liver of life. 236 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 2: There's something about the Moon, It's presence that it's like 237 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 2: there for you all the time that's bigger than you 238 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 2: and your and you're reminds you that there's something more 239 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 2: out there. It's kind of like the perfect band name 240 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 2: for me because when I play with other musicians, there 241 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: the moon. When I play with no one, the Moon's 242 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 2: still there. It's just like this omnipresent light in my 243 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 2: life that that kind of helps guide me forward. 244 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: Can you walk us through the moment that you knew 245 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: that Lost Life and Love had to be a mixtape 246 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: series rather than a single album? Like, what does that 247 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: structure let you do emotionally? Is it different than just 248 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: a typical album? 249 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think what it was is I I've 250 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 2: just been writing so much music consistently, and I'm just 251 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 2: looking at the catalog of songs I've been writing, and 252 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 2: I was singing, like what what am I actually trying 253 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 2: to say in the world? And when I looked at 254 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 2: the catalog of these songs that I've wanted to release 255 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 2: from that that lens, I started seeing that it's really 256 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 2: the same pattern that I'm singing. Reimagine that though we 257 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 2: don't talk about loss, loss actually generates so much, it 258 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 2: generates more life, it generates more love. It's and it's 259 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 2: an arc. It's not just that they're they're all these 260 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 2: cycles are connected, and that's what the songs. That's kind 261 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 2: of the origin of these songs. They've actually come for 262 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 2: me for places sometimes that are hard, but they've led 263 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 2: to new thoughts, to new love, to new possibilities, and 264 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 2: so the the the the series of EPs that I'm 265 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 2: going to be releasing, just just kind of tells that 266 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 2: that story, it's just all all kind of came together. 267 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: I think it's just so beautiful love, lost, life, soul, rock, poetry. 268 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: And people are comparing you to like a Paul Simon, 269 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: which is a huge compliment, I'm sure, but some people 270 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: don't like to be compared to others. But your words 271 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: are beautiful and in the way you're channeling it to 272 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: help others is incredible. I'd love to talk to you 273 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: about why Wait, which is the first single, and your 274 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: incredible grandparents. Can you tell us about Sally, your grandmother, 275 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: and what she was like and what did she teach 276 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: you about living fully after surviving the unimaginable, being in 277 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: the Holocaust and being at Auschwitz and witnessing all of 278 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: that and still living such an incredible life to one 279 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: hundred and two. 280 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. It is really remarkable to think 281 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 2: about her life and totality and what she went through 282 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 2: and where she ended up. You know, my grandma Sally 283 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 2: was a story teller. She was the eldest of three 284 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 2: sisters that went through the war together her her her 285 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 2: dad died in the ghetto, and you know, she had 286 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 2: to sneak out at night with her dad in a 287 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 2: wheelbarrow to bury her own father under the under the 288 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 2: watchful lights of the Nazis that were controlling the ghetto 289 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 2: at the time, and she snuck to bury her dad 290 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 2: and as soon as they then her sisters and her 291 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 2: mom were taken by train to to to Auschwitz, where 292 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 2: you know, her her mother was promptly whacked in the 293 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 2: head with a shovel and they asked, where is mom 294 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 2: and they guard pointed to the to the smoke over 295 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 2: the gas chambers and said, that's where your mom is now. 296 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 2: And so thereafter it was my grandma and her two 297 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 2: younger sisters, and my grandma did everything she could to 298 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 2: to keep them alive, and they kept each other alive. 299 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 2: But it was even beyond that. It's my grandmother was 300 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 2: very beautiful. She was a beautiful, beautiful woman, and she 301 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 2: was very educated. A guard I don't know if you 302 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 2: fell in love with her or just had a crush 303 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 2: on her or something, or felt a sympathy. He would 304 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 2: hide a sandwich for her in a in a drawer 305 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 2: every day, and my grandma would take the sandwich instead 306 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 2: of just eating it though she was starving, she would 307 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 2: divide it up into tiny pieces for all the women 308 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 2: in the bunk, and these little morsels so everyone could 309 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 2: have a little morsel of food. And that that's that's 310 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 2: kind of the spirit that I think really speaks to 311 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 2: the kind of of person she was. And it just 312 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 2: I was in such awe of what it was like 313 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 2: to survive in the realm of normal as a human 314 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 2: being after after going through so much, you know, the 315 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 2: things she would tell and she would tell me about 316 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 2: these things, and every time she talk to me, I 317 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 2: would she would hug me, and she would she would cry. 318 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 2: Every time I met her in my life, she would 319 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 2: just seeing me made her so happy, that that her 320 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 2: that that she was alive, and that I was a 321 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 2: cymbol in her mind of of of that survival. It 322 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 2: brought her to tears. And it was it's honestly, it was. 323 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 2: It was so beautiful. 324 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 3: It was. 325 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 2: It's a lot. It was a lot to handle, even 326 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 2: for me. 327 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: I was going to ask you as a young age, 328 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: that must have been heavy. 329 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 2: Super it was super heavy. I mean, honestly, Yeah, My 330 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 2: my grandfather was dying when I was a young boy. 331 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 2: And you know, he had the tattoo on his arm 332 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 2: with the with the his prisoner numbers, which was like 333 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 2: en and you know, his job was to take I mean, 334 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 2: this is a lot, but his his job was to 335 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 2: carry the bodies or out of the gas chamber. Uh 336 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 2: and and his other you know, I didn't even share 337 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 2: his full job. His full job was to actually take 338 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 2: them also to the gas chamber. He had to take 339 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 2: them there and and away and and survived by just 340 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 2: eating the food that he found in the coats of 341 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 2: those of the or the clothing of those of those people. 342 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 2: And so I'm sure that's why I'm doing this work. 343 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 2: In some other ways, it was how can it not 344 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 2: be part of it? It's a lot, it's a lot 345 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 2: of it's a lot of process. And but then that's 346 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 2: the thing is like people go through. I talked about 347 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 2: their own water. People go through such hard things in life, 348 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 2: and it's crazy, what what we you know, It's like, 349 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 2: why should we put each other through anything more than 350 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,959 Speaker 2: we already have to go through? That's that's It's like why, 351 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 2: why on why were there people that would put people 352 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 2: in this awful position? And it made me, you know, 353 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 2: ponder mortality and and and death and these topics and 354 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 2: try to find ways for myself to integrate these experiences 355 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 2: in ways that didn't overwhelm me. 356 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, how do you as a as a 357 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 1: young kid, how do you move forward in life? I 358 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: remember learning about in school and then coming home when 359 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: I was probably seven or eight and asking my parents 360 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: like how long ago did this happen? And how did 361 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: they get tricked into it? Like how did people fall 362 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: for it? And then I found out that my great 363 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: grandparents escaped it and that's I'm named after them. 364 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:13,959 Speaker 2: Wow. 365 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: So I never got to meet anyone like you did 366 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: to talk about the actual story, but I got all 367 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: the stories. And I remember at that time when I 368 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: heard you mean that was only like twenty years ago, 369 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: thirty years ago? Wow, so that could happen again? And 370 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: I knew that even as a little kid, thinking, so, 371 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: you know, you move on with life with that kind 372 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: of information, you definitely have to do something with it. 373 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 2: I feel so, I mean only in retrospect when I 374 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 2: look back, you know, because my grandmother lived to one 375 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 2: hundred and two and I've spent and I you know, 376 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 2: I've written songs and music, and she's a very central 377 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 2: part of my life. But only more recently I started 378 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 2: really trying to learn more about my since my grandfather 379 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 2: passed away. I really tried to empathize with the suffering 380 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 2: that he had to experience and seeing all these souls 381 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 2: have to transition. And it's like, I do ultimately feel 382 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 2: like that this work it Reimagine is in some ways 383 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 2: a part a part of that of that legacy. It's like, 384 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 2: how do we respond to pain? And I think the 385 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 2: our whole theory is that grief isn't just neutral. People say, oh, 386 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 2: there's no wrong way to grieve every and it's true, 387 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 2: every every emotion we feel is a real emotion we 388 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 2: should you know. But at the same time, grief can 389 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 2: end up creating a lot of destruction in the world, 390 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 2: and it can also potentially lead to great kindness. And 391 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,479 Speaker 2: to more connection. And the question we have is how 392 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 2: do we how do we create more kind grief? 393 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: You're doing it and we need to get more people 394 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 1: to do that too. Speaking of which, cover you in Flowers, 395 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: which I mentioned upfront, was about a dear friend and 396 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: volunteer with you at Reimagine. Can you tell me about 397 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: her and how she became a part of the Reimagined community. 398 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, my dear friend Grace. I met her as a 399 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 2: Reimagined volunteer. She came to Reimagine because her own mother 400 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 2: had passed away and she was raised by a single mom, 401 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 2: and when her mom died, she was with her mom 402 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 2: and her mom's last words were, this is like birth. 403 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 2: And Grace really then wanted to open up a conversation 404 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 2: in our country about mortality and expand that conversation because 405 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 2: she had seen and learned from her mom's journey that 406 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 2: it wasn't so morbid. There was something beautiful about her 407 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 2: mom's death and she wanted to spread that idea. Well. 408 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 2: After a couple months of volunteering for US, Grace herself 409 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 2: was diagnosed with her own overian cancer and and it 410 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 2: was it became a terminal diagnosis, which was really devastating, 411 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 2: and so we asked, Grace, you know, wow, you know what, 412 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 2: you know, what could we do to support her? And 413 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 2: and and we were putting on these large scale, citywide 414 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 2: festivals at the time. This is UH and and and 415 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 2: we said, Grace, if there's any time you want to 416 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 2: speak and tell your story, if you have anything you 417 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 2: want to share, the mic is the mic is yours. 418 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 2: And she became a mainstage speaker at all of our 419 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 2: festivals for the next three years as she went through 420 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 2: her own end of life journey and she shared her 421 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 2: insights with large audiences. And over that time I had 422 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 2: the opportunity to play music for her separately as she 423 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 2: was in some points where she was struggling. And the 424 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:58,400 Speaker 2: most remarkable thing I thought was her husband was her 425 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:03,439 Speaker 2: boyfriend Ben, But they decided, you know, despite her terminal illness, 426 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 2: that they were going to get married. And the two 427 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 2: of them really navigated this journey together in a really 428 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 2: beautiful way, which I was just so grateful to be 429 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 2: a part of the wisdom and the beauty that they 430 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 2: were manifesting in their lives. And when Grace was getting 431 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 2: to the very end of her life, Ben reached out 432 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 2: to me and had me come over and I played 433 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 2: music for her for a couple hours where their dogs 434 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 2: had it had its head on my knee and it 435 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 2: was just like this sweetest thing. And then when I 436 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 2: got home, I found out that Grace had then passed away, 437 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 2: and Ben ended up covering her body. He went to 438 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 2: the flower shop and had heard about this ritual that 439 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 2: some of the cultures engage in, and the people that 440 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 2: were living at the house where Ben was and Grace 441 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 2: where they it was, you know, there was other people 442 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 2: in their thirties that were living there. They all covered 443 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 2: Grace's body and the most remarkable flowers, and it was 444 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 2: so beautiful. And Ben sent a photo out of Grace 445 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 2: in that state when I'd never seen something so overwhelming 446 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 2: but also so beautiful at the same time. And I 447 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 2: ended up just writing a song about Grace and Ben 448 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 2: and about me and Grace and and really the whole, 449 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 2: the whole journey. 450 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: And that that song is called The Cover You and Flowers. 451 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:38,719 Speaker 2: It is. 452 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 3: Yes, we'll be right back with more of the Music 453 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 3: Saved Me podcast. Welcome back to the Music Saved Me Podcast. 454 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: What did it mean for her to become an advocate 455 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,360 Speaker 1: and to speak so openly about her own mortality while 456 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: she was living through it. 457 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 2: I think that's one of the things that we've learned, 458 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 2: you know, reimagine is that you know, maybe not for everyone, 459 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 2: but but but sharing your own story is healing. That 460 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 2: is a gift not just for the receiver but for 461 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 2: the giver. And so for example, at our we had 462 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 2: a festival in New York City, and not only did 463 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,239 Speaker 2: Grace speak from the main stage, but she arranged an 464 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 2: entire track at the festival, which was a festival all 465 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 2: around reimagining the end of life experience. So there was music, 466 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 2: and there was art, and there were but there were 467 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 2: also just conversations and experiences about talking about hard things 468 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 2: and for people that were going through a physical illness, 469 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 2: that were that had that that that were that were 470 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 2: physically and really challenged, she arranged an entire track that 471 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 2: she led at the festival to be with those people 472 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 2: and support them. You know, I saw Grace derive a 473 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 2: lot of meaning and joy. You know, I remember her 474 00:27:55,400 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 2: saying that this work is making me feel present and 475 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 2: and that's the most important thing for me right now. 476 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: Wow, it's a it's a heavy topic, but but you 477 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,479 Speaker 1: bring something up that's so important you know, because we 478 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 1: weren't taught. Maybe it is something beautiful transitioning and and 479 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: maybe it's tough, you know, depending on how and what 480 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: ails you or or you know, but some of the 481 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 1: worst possible things, such beautiful things come from. So there 482 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 1: has to be something good about our transitioning. 483 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's I think it's really about 484 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 2: how we respond as human beings. And but maybe there 485 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 2: is something spiritual too, you know. I mean, I mean, 486 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 2: there's so so I don't want to say that there's 487 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 2: it's not mechanical but but but but but at the 488 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 2: same time, and this is what I'm saying. It's like 489 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 2: some people after a death can get you know, there 490 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 2: can be or or or even more broadly, like when 491 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 2: we experience grief on kind of collective grief, there could 492 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,719 Speaker 2: be anger, there could be there could be self harmed, 493 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 2: there could be lashing out. Alternatively, there there you know, 494 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 2: and we have to have self compassion because because it's 495 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 2: obviously hard, there's a lot of emotions that come up. 496 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 2: So self compassion is very important. But there can also 497 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 2: be generativity and if and if you can live, for example, 498 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 2: in honor of somebody, if you can if you can 499 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 2: transmute that love and which is wrapped up in pain 500 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 2: into something into a new form that relationship doesn't even end, continues. Yeah, 501 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 2: and so that's that's really what we're trying to figure out, 502 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 2: and that honoring then becomes part of the healing. You know. 503 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 2: The actions can be small. It could be it's this 504 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 2: the way this other person took life less seriously, I'm 505 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 2: gonna I'm gonna practice taking life less seriously. It could 506 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 2: be like my grandma's like, I'm going to share my story. 507 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 3: H it. 508 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 2: Could you know these these and if you can, in 509 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 2: your mind tie those things back to the person but 510 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 2: also to the loss and say, like, only I've only 511 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 2: realized these things out of this loss, because every loss 512 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 2: is like, is a rupture, and and every rupture is 513 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 2: a chance to look at our life again and say, man, 514 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 2: what really matters? Now? What really matters? Because you kind 515 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 2: of see what matters most? And then if you do 516 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 2: that scan of your life and then start making some small, 517 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 2: sweet new steps for yourself toward what matters most, and 518 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 2: if you then in your brain tie those steps back 519 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 2: to the loss, we start saying, wow, now, out of 520 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 2: this loss, I've created a whole album. I've I've I 521 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 2: have new friends, I have a community, I have I've 522 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 2: learned all these things about about pain. It doesn't take 523 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 2: away all that suffering and all that sadness, but it's 524 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 2: like there's so much beauty that's that's that can come 525 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 2: out of the hard places, and we need to do 526 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 2: a better job of connecting and seeing the relationship between 527 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,719 Speaker 2: our pain and our in our in our flourishing. 528 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe what you're talking about is the silver 529 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: lining that that if you look for it, it's always there, 530 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: but you have to be able to, you know, find 531 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: it because it's always there. 532 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 2: In the research, it's there's a term for it called 533 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 2: benefit finding, which is which is a little weird as 534 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 2: a term. It's like because and what's interesting is when 535 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 2: people are going through something hard, people don't want to think, oh, 536 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 2: what's good about this? You know what's right? They don't 537 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 2: want to it's like they don't want to find a 538 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 2: silver lining. A lot of times it's just like I 539 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 2: just want to be in my pain, and I think 540 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 2: that's it's okay to achnology. You have to be where 541 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 2: you are at the same time. But if we let 542 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 2: it affect our lives and and you know, we talk 543 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 2: about resilience in this country, and a lot of people 544 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 2: think resilience means just being strong and impenetrable. But they've 545 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 2: shown that people that grow most through the hard parts 546 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 2: of life are people that were predisposed to be a 547 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 2: little bit more open. And and it makes sense. It's like, 548 00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 2: we don't want to be just shut off because there's 549 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 2: no way. You can't just stay where you were. The 550 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 2: only place you can go is somewhere, is somewhere ultimately new. 551 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 2: So what is that new place going to look like? 552 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: What was it like turning something that was so intimate 553 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: into something that you would release publicly In these stories 554 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: we've talked about and the two examples we used with 555 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: Grace and your grandmother Sally. 556 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 2: It's hard, I have to say, you know, with reimagine 557 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 2: when it's when it's more about a concept and an 558 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 2: idea and this music, and you know it is so 559 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 2: deeply personal, and and you know, when you care about 560 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 2: something so much, you care about someone so much, those 561 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 2: things become really precious to you. It isn't I mean, 562 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 2: I'm really kind of just grappling with your question right now, 563 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 2: and I think it's I'm just what's coming up for 564 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 2: me is that I wonder if part of it it 565 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 2: is like an ending in some ways, because I spend 566 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 2: all this time working on these songs and and you know, 567 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 2: it's like that working on them is kind of keeping them, 568 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 2: keeping them close to me, and there's something to do 569 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 2: with them. And then yeah, and then when you put 570 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 2: it out in the world, it's kind of like it's 571 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 2: a new it's a new chap, it's like a new chapter. 572 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 2: It's like, oh, I'm done writing the song. I'm then 573 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 2: recording the song. I'm done tweaking out on this song, 574 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 2: and now I'm gonna put it out and it's you know, 575 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 2: it's it's it's released from me. And that process of 576 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 2: will kind of let letting go. I'm just realizing, I 577 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 2: think has been is an important part of the process. 578 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 2: And it's taken me, you know, ten years of writing 579 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 2: this music to release any new music, and I think 580 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 2: that might be part of it. It's just like holding 581 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 2: onto the preciousness, but grappling with that that reality about 582 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 2: life that letting go is is hard and there's different 583 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 2: phases in it. But if you know, I'm telling myself 584 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 2: things that I've learned that if I do that, there'll 585 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 2: be other things that will inevitably fill up those spots too, 586 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 2: and those will be beautiful. They're just yet to come. 587 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: So this music isn't just to help others, it really 588 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: is to help you too. 589 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's that's what music is for me. 590 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 2: And that's what's so beautiful about about something like music, 591 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 2: I think, and that it can be it is for me, 592 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 2: and yet you can do something you love the most 593 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 2: and other people might still benefit from it, just like 594 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 2: our lived experience. You can live your own life and 595 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 2: then if you share your story, other people's benefit from it. 596 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 2: It's but you know, now I have it. I have 597 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 2: a I have a nine month old daughter, and it's 598 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 2: my first, my first child, and congratulations, thank you so much. 599 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,919 Speaker 2: And it's been like the sweetest thing, honestly to see 600 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 2: the way in which she connects to music at at 601 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 2: you know, from from just the very beginning of her life. 602 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't have much experience with you know, 603 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 2: I have much more experience now with people at the 604 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 2: end of their life, not not the beginning beginning, and 605 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 2: just seeing how innately, you know, I've like written songs 606 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 2: for her now is kind of what I'm writing songs about, 607 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 2: songs that make her happy. And literally I can get 608 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 2: to a chorus of a song and she'll even when 609 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 2: she was like four months, she would like pick she 610 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 2: could like pick up a shaker and at the chorus, 611 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 2: she would like her body is just going crazy, like 612 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 2: she she can feel, she knows, she knows, and it's like, wow, 613 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 2: music is bigger than us. This kind of expression, this 614 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 2: kind of movement is so deep in our in clapping, 615 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 2: you know, in our in our DNA. It's not just 616 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 2: something we invented for sports. It's like it's like just 617 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 2: what we're programmed to do. 618 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, and she's only nine months old, So you're thinking, 619 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,479 Speaker 1: she's only been on this earth nine months and she's 620 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 1: figuring out rhythm and sound and music and she it's 621 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: it's it's a powerful tool. 622 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,760 Speaker 2: It's it's it's for sure. It's crazy. 623 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 1: So what do you think it is? Have you ever 624 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: thought about what it is mechanically about music? Well, I 625 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: think the music, the words, the sound, the vibration. 626 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 2: I mean, I've I've thought about music a lot from 627 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 2: these different perspectives. I mean, I think, on the one hand, 628 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 2: I think music is healing for the reasons that I said, 629 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 2: because it has this property of you channeling something in 630 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 2: some other form and someone else being able to receive 631 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 2: that form. And it's in that relationship that there's something powerful. 632 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 2: And I think there's many things like that. That's what 633 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 2: I've been thinking about it. It's like, oh, there's service, 634 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 2: there's there's there's small actions, there's spirituality, there's so many things. 635 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 2: There's so many outlets and where where if we are 636 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 2: intentional about our what we're transmuting. But I think these 637 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 2: are me to your point, you know, thinking about oh 638 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,720 Speaker 2: the vibration, thinking about this and that at the same time. 639 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 2: And this is something else maybe I've learned from reimagine. 640 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:02,879 Speaker 2: I don't know. I do think there must be something 641 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 2: bigger than us that is that is connecting us. And 642 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 2: I feel like music is just like a part of that. 643 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 2: That's it's hard to put in words. And I'm looking, 644 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 2: you know, in our Western culture. It's like, I'm looking 645 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 2: to help people believe in some of these things. And 646 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 2: one way that we help each other believe is to 647 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 2: find data, is to find facts, is to find reasons, 648 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 2: and to then share those reasons, because then people believe 649 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,360 Speaker 2: but I think also there's just something and this is 650 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 2: what I'm saying about about Brielle, my daughter. It's just 651 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 2: like there's something obviously, it's just like bigger than us, 652 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 2: that that that is so unexplainable that we keep looking 653 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 2: for and it's so beautiful that we keep looking for 654 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 2: reasons to to to to to explain it. And I 655 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 2: think there's a lot of things like that, you know, 656 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,400 Speaker 2: we we could we could say, whether you know you 657 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 2: use the word God or however else you relate to 658 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 2: spirituality is sometimes I think if I was going to 659 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 2: write a children's book, I would call it like the 660 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,399 Speaker 2: big It It's like, I don't know what it is 661 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:08,279 Speaker 2: that is. It is big, beautiful, it is overwhelming, it 662 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 2: is magical. It is filling me up right now. It 663 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 2: is there when I look at the trees, and it's 664 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 2: there when I look at my daughters. It is hard 665 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,240 Speaker 2: to put into words, but we know it. 666 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 1: And I don't even think you have to put a 667 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 1: name on it. Just knowing that there's something more, you know, 668 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: bigger than us, is a huge step for some people, 669 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: or understanding that, because it kind of helps you get 670 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:33,760 Speaker 1: through life a little better. 671 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 2: In this work, I've done around an end of life. 672 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 2: The coincidences that the magical things that I feel like 673 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 2: when I'm more open to these experiences, the stories that 674 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 2: I've heard of just magic have really blown my mind. 675 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 2: And that's I think. The other thing I've learned is 676 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 2: that our culture makes it want to be more numb. 677 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,279 Speaker 2: I mean it does. So it's like, how do we 678 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 2: stay present and when we like what Grace said and 679 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 2: when we are able to somehow it does seem to 680 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 2: unlock a lot of mystery. 681 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: I think the first thing you do, which no one's 682 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: gonna like me saying, is turn on the music and 683 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: shut off the screens. It's hard. There's so much, like 684 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 1: you said, dumbing down or keeping us occupied with mind 685 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,879 Speaker 1: numbing entertainment that means nothing as opposed to being more 686 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,279 Speaker 1: in touch with ourselves and why we're here. 687 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 2: I think that's I think that's so. I think that 688 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:46,319 Speaker 2: that message and you know, on my life album, I 689 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 2: mean that's kind of the main that's like the message 690 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 2: that I that I that I that I feel. It's 691 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 2: like no telephones. I have a song, no telephones, TVs 692 00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 2: and movie stars. I don't want a big house. I 693 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 2: don't want a big car. I just want to go 694 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,359 Speaker 2: walking and talk to myself, don't you know. And then 695 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,840 Speaker 2: it concludes with I'd rather walk through the tall grass 696 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,239 Speaker 2: than sit on the highest throne. You know, there's so 697 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,719 Speaker 2: many pulls toward to move in these certain directions. It's 698 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 2: all around us, all these distractions, and it's really hard. 699 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 2: You know, the song for me, it's not for other people. Again, 700 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,320 Speaker 2: it's it's a reminder to myself because it's so hard 701 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 2: to just stay centered. 702 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 1: You took the word right out of my mouth. 703 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, so what do you? Yeah? What to tell me? How? 704 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 2: What do you think? Well? 705 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 1: What a juxtaposition, because you know, my whole life, I 706 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 1: always wanted to be in entertainment. If I could have 707 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: been a musician, that's you know, because I felt like 708 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: that was giving back and participating in life, as opposed 709 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: to stay right here because there's a bunch of commercials 710 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 1: coming on next that are going to sell you something, 711 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: and that's why I'm here. I didn't want to be that. 712 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: I didn't want to be the distraction. I would rather 713 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 1: be able to do something that I love, but that also, 714 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: like you, educates, teaches, helps people through life, and so 715 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: I agree one hundred percent with you. I think, you know, 716 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 1: the we're all distracted. But I also think that's why 717 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 1: authenticity is so important to people today, because they're starting 718 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 1: to wake up and realize how much they've been sold 719 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: and lied to and entertained so much out of what 720 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:29,800 Speaker 1: life is really all about. 721 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think for sure. I think it's 722 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,800 Speaker 2: really beautiful what you just said. It does make me think, 723 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 2: you know, kind of connecting the entertainment complex to the 724 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,200 Speaker 2: news complex, and it's like, oh yeah, it's like they 725 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 2: go together. It's like the more pain and the more 726 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,880 Speaker 2: distraction we need and so and so, how are and 727 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,240 Speaker 2: that's the guess the underline questions like how are we gonna? 728 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 2: And I guess that's why this work we're doing. It's like, 729 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,400 Speaker 2: what's at the root of this? And I feel like 730 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,480 Speaker 2: at the root of it is a grief. It's like 731 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 2: there's a sadness that we have to get real with 732 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,359 Speaker 2: and more instead of shouting or distracting or entertaining, it's 733 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,080 Speaker 2: like we have to we have to somehow before we 734 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 2: can solve it. We just have to be able to 735 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,920 Speaker 2: be with it and with each other and and and 736 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,799 Speaker 2: that's like the big message that we have. Now I'm curious. 737 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 2: I don't mean to reflip the interview, but can you 738 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,160 Speaker 2: can you just be willing to share like music saved me, 739 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 2: just like just. 740 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 1: Okay, the origins of how the podcast came. 741 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 2: From what a beautiful what a beautiful idea? Like like 742 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,640 Speaker 2: like just why. 743 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 1: Well, I can't take credit for the idea that is 744 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 1: buzz Night. He was the one who presented me with 745 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 1: the opportunity to do this, and to be honest, it 746 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:49,480 Speaker 1: was i'd say probably the first time. Well, he actually 747 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 1: gig offered me my first job back when I was 748 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 1: in radio many years ago, and I turned him down, 749 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 1: but that was because I was scared. But now he 750 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:01,840 Speaker 1: hit me up after I literally got out of the 751 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:06,239 Speaker 1: entertainment business, a lot of which was for reasons we 752 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,359 Speaker 1: have just discussed, and I came out to try to, 753 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,360 Speaker 1: you know, to do other things that were less touched 754 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: by the ick factor of the entertainment industry, if that 755 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:23,080 Speaker 1: makes any sense. So yeah, when he presented me with 756 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,799 Speaker 1: this opportunity, was the first time that anyone in the 757 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,839 Speaker 1: industry actually thought we could do programming that's not train 758 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 1: wreck or look over here or see these fancy flashy 759 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,600 Speaker 1: things or you know, it was it was actually going 760 00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:40,400 Speaker 1: to with purpose. It was entertainment with purpose to help 761 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,879 Speaker 1: people and also probably to help myself realize that this 762 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 1: does exist, but it needs to be expanded upon because 763 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 1: there's not enough of it. I'm so grateful that this 764 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,239 Speaker 1: was the reason I said yes. And so for a 765 00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,439 Speaker 1: long answer, that's how this came about. 766 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 2: Ah, and how has it transformed you? And and and 767 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,000 Speaker 2: you know, being part of these conversations that you're you're 768 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,880 Speaker 2: you're curating unbelievable. 769 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:15,040 Speaker 1: It makes me very emotional. Yeah, it's been life changing 770 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,360 Speaker 1: talking to people like you and just learning about what 771 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:25,399 Speaker 1: people go through and it makes life less scary and 772 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,080 Speaker 1: it's it's incredible. Actually, it's been incredible therapy that I 773 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,200 Speaker 1: never thought that I would not have to pay for, 774 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:33,120 Speaker 1: I'd get paid. 775 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:33,319 Speaker 2: To do it. 776 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,120 Speaker 1: So thanks for making me cry. 777 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,560 Speaker 2: Well, thanks for sharing. Honestly, it's such, it's so, it's so, 778 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,480 Speaker 2: it's so beautiful, and it just feels like that's an 779 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 2: amazing transformation in life. And then if you're you're also 780 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:49,879 Speaker 2: you know all the principles that we're talking about that 781 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 2: then you're inspiring all these other people to have these 782 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,239 Speaker 2: conversations and you don't even know the ripples that are 783 00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,960 Speaker 2: that are being created through this, and I know that 784 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,800 Speaker 2: there's a lot I hope. 785 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,120 Speaker 1: So can I give you one more question? Yeah, what 786 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: do you want someone who's who's actively potentially grieving right 787 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,399 Speaker 1: now or going through something to feel when they hear 788 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,799 Speaker 1: your music Brad Wolf and the Moon versus someone who 789 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,560 Speaker 1: isn't there yet? You know, if if someone only takes 790 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:26,760 Speaker 1: one thing from reimagines work, the events, the conversations, the music, 791 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:28,560 Speaker 1: what do you hope that that is? 792 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 2: I think there has to be two parts. One, you're 793 00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,000 Speaker 2: not you know, you're not alone. That we were all 794 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,760 Speaker 2: in our water and and the thing is we can't 795 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,000 Speaker 2: see it, but we're we're all connected, and it's part 796 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,120 Speaker 2: of It's it's it's gonna be okay because we're not alone, 797 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,239 Speaker 2: and and that's it's hard to hold on to that. 798 00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:51,640 Speaker 2: That's part part of it. We're not alone, and you're 799 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,399 Speaker 2: going to have choices, and if you can just keep 800 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 2: living those choices that are as close as to your 801 00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:01,960 Speaker 2: heart as possible, it's more and more beauty will unfold 802 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:02,279 Speaker 2: for you. 803 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:07,959 Speaker 1: Where can people find you, Brad Besides online Bradwolf dot com. 804 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,880 Speaker 1: That's Wolf within e on the end of it, I 805 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:10,839 Speaker 1: did notice. 806 00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,880 Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Yes, So you can find my 807 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,640 Speaker 2: music there. And then Let's reimagine dot org. If you 808 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,600 Speaker 2: go to Let's Reimagine dot org, we've hosted over five 809 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:27,720 Speaker 2: thousand free experiences for people to process the hard parts 810 00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,560 Speaker 2: of life. And there's definitely something there for everyone because 811 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,040 Speaker 2: we're all going through something hard and the community is 812 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:38,359 Speaker 2: really wonderful and it's open and I say, come check 813 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:42,040 Speaker 2: something out. And we're also launching this new social platform. 814 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,160 Speaker 2: As I mentioned that it's like an antidote to social media, 815 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:50,960 Speaker 2: and we're debuting that on October fifteenth, twenty twenty six. 816 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,400 Speaker 2: What's not called Well, the platform is going to be 817 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:58,160 Speaker 2: at Let's reimagine dot com. It's like another instantiation of 818 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 2: our work. But we're hosting a large scale summit on 819 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:06,000 Speaker 2: October fifteenth called Grief in Our Times and that's free 820 00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,239 Speaker 2: as well. Everything we do is free. I mean, we 821 00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,839 Speaker 2: want everyone to just be able to come together, and 822 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,160 Speaker 2: we believe that community support through the hard parts of 823 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,680 Speaker 2: life should be a rite and it should also be 824 00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:23,640 Speaker 2: engaging and accessible. So it's a virtual gathering on October fifteenth, 825 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,120 Speaker 2: where you'll be able to check out and get free 826 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 2: access to Let's reimagine dot com. You'll see that it's 827 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,360 Speaker 2: already we've been piloting it. It's already helping people create 828 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,879 Speaker 2: beautiful things out of hard places. That's really the work 829 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,359 Speaker 2: we're doing now that we're so excited about, is how 830 00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:43,240 Speaker 2: do we help people actually manifest their dreams from what's hard. 831 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,680 Speaker 2: Whether that's to write a song, whether that's a start 832 00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:50,160 Speaker 2: a new organization, or whether that's just to connect more 833 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,080 Speaker 2: deeply to someone that may be fallen out of touch 834 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,719 Speaker 2: with There's a million things that you can find in 835 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,720 Speaker 2: this support of community. So thanks for asking, long winded 836 00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,799 Speaker 2: Let's reimagine dot org for now you'll find all this 837 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,239 Speaker 2: bradwolf dot com and I and I would you know 838 00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,640 Speaker 2: if you want to email me Brad at Let's reimagine 839 00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,439 Speaker 2: dot org. I would love to connect with anyone who 840 00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:11,160 Speaker 2: got this far in the episode. 841 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,640 Speaker 1: Brad Wolfe, thank you so much for coming on Music 842 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,840 Speaker 1: Save Me and sharing your stories. What an incredible story 843 00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,520 Speaker 1: that you have, the things that you're sharing with the world, 844 00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,480 Speaker 1: and thank you for coming on and sharing that here. 845 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,760 Speaker 1: Because once again I'm enlightened and I've learned new things 846 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,640 Speaker 1: and I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. 847 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:33,600 Speaker 1: We appreciate it. 848 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:35,480 Speaker 2: Well, it's it's truly, no, it really is an honor, 849 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,279 Speaker 2: and I feel like this is a really this has 850 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,279 Speaker 2: been a really special conversation and I've really enjoyed meeting you, 851 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,759 Speaker 2: and I hope we can I can stay in touch 852 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,240 Speaker 2: with with you and and and Buzz and the whole, 853 00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:46,759 Speaker 2: the whole, that's the whole show. 854 00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:47,879 Speaker 1: Absolutely, you better. 855 00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,279 Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of good synergudes here. So 856 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:51,840 Speaker 2: it's it's really, it's really powerful. 857 00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,800 Speaker 3: I'm Buz's Night and thanks for listening to Lynn Hoffman 858 00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:01,839 Speaker 3: and the music Save Me Podcast produce by Buzznight Media Productions. 859 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,759 Speaker 2: Please check out our other shows, Taken a Walk Nashville 860 00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:10,320 Speaker 2: hosted by Sarah Harrelson, Comedy Save Me hosted by Lynn Hoffman, 861 00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,560 Speaker 2: and Taken a Walk hosted by Yours Truly. 862 00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:18,680 Speaker 3: All shows are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and are 863 00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:20,960 Speaker 3: part of the iHeart podcast network.