WEBVTT - 5. The Transcript 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:08.880 This is investigator Dave tell Us with the Alaska State Troopers. 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:15.040 Today's date is November eight. We're in Tucson, Arizona, at 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:19.760 the Pima County Jail. I'm a detective Mike Grimes from 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:23.119 the Anchorage Police Department and Detective Tom Davis with the 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:26.720 Arizona Department of Public Safety of the Organized Crime Branch. 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:29.560 And we're gonna be talking to an inmate by the 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.920 name of Jerry IM Paisley. The time now is nine. 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.199 From my Heart Media, this is Missing in Alaska, the 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:46.640 story of two congressmen who vanished in ninety two and 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:49.200 my quest to figure out what happened to them. I'm 0:00:49.200 --> 0:01:00.760 your host, John Wallzack. What you just heard and what 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:03.480 you're about to hear is a recreation of an interview 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:07.680 of Jerry Max Paisley conducted by three investigators Mike Grimes, 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:13.199 Tom Davis, and Dave Tullis on November eight in Tucson, Arizona. 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.440 Paisley again was the man Peggy Begett married less than 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:21.480 seventeen months after her husband, Congressman Nick Beggett, disappeared in Alaska. 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.400 Paisley and Peggy's marriage lasted two and a half years. 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:28.600 They divorced in nineteen seventy six. Paisley was a murderer 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.920 and bomber with close ties to to mafia families, the 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:35.600 Bananas and the look of Olie's. Initially, I obtained a 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.520 transcript of this interview from the FBI by way of 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.960 a FOYA or Freedom of Information Act request, but there 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:46.039 was one big problem. Significant parts of the transcript were adapted, 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:49.400 meaning they were blacked out. I could read some things, 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:53.200 but not everything. So last year I tried a different approach. 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.040 I filed the record's request with the Alaska Department of 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:59.440 Public Safety, trying to get copies of the original interview tapes. 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:03.200 For months, I fought with the Alaska DPS, and let 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.000 me say, in more than a decade of requesting records 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:09.560 at the federal, state and local levels, I've never encountered 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:12.760 a more difficult, obstinate, hard to work with agency than 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.799 the Alaska DPS. Was tried to charge us almost two 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:18.160 thousand dollars just to look and see whether or not 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.720 the tapes even exist. Thankfully, though, I got a huge 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:24.880 break when a source who wants to remain anonymous, gave 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:28.400 me a full, unredacted copy of the transcript. Thanks to 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:32.280 that source, I now know everything, Jerry Paisley told investigators. 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:36.400 What you're about to hear is a verbatim reading of 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:40.120 part of the transcript. We're not sharing the entire thing, 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.560 mainly because it's seventy one pages long, but this is 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:47.720 the most important part. It's never been shared publicly. It's 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:52.160 edited very lightly for clarity, mainly to remove ums. For example, 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.840 we also bleat the N word, which Paisley said twice 0:02:56.680 --> 0:03:01.880 during this recreation. You'll hear certain sound effects. We put 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.160 them in there to indicate parts of the transcript that 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:09.120 are marked with inaudible or comments covered. Again, this is 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:12.760 an exact reading of the transcript. The first words you'll 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:18.880 hear are Paisley's voiced by Scott Sea leads. I don't 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.880 know why things went the way they did. Sometimes, you know, 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.760 I was just pretty much I'm what they call in 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.880 those days. There's two eras in my life. There's there's 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.720 two parts of my life. There's before drugs and after drugs. 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.760 Before drugs, I was just basically a fucking thuck known 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:37.840 as a do things guy. If you wanted something done, 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.520 you came to see me. If it was right for me, 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.720 I do it for you, sometimes without money. Sometimes I 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:46.320 charge you know, why wait for a favorite later? You 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:49.560 owe me, you know. And I did a lot of 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:51.720 that down here. I think my record shows that because 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.920 I've had this, not this conversation, but I've had conversations 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:57.080 with people that he knows are in and out of 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.880 the game, been retired for years, and we can go 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.880 back in the records and see that I'm a I 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:05.400 was a do things guy for some pretty big people 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:07.840 at one time. You know, big people wanted me to 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:10.800 do things for them. Sometimes I was taking advantage of 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.800 Sometimes I took advantage. And I don't know why things 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:18.240 sometimes I don't know. I can't put it all together. 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:21.200 I just know what happened and walked away, you know. 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:26.919 Hail Boggs and Nick Baggage. Hail Boggs was a god 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:30.080 big man. He was Speaker of the House, Speaker of 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:32.679 the House and just been into it with the FBI 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:35.120 and all that ship. He'd been harassing the FBI pretty bad, 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.480 doing something against him. I don't know what, but I 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:42.080 remembered it was something to do with him in the fens. 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:45.120 There's a guy here in town called Joey A Tarola. 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:48.440 You know, you know him. They call him Joey the 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.560 Eye mafiosa from Chicago. You know. He's Nicki Palermo's cousin. 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:53.640 He's on the outs with him now. And he was 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:55.800 with the Bananos. A lot of people don't know that. 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:58.000 A lot of people suspect that. A lot of people 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:01.040 think that. But he was just he was JB's guy 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:05.240 in town, old man Banano. You know. Yeah, Tom's already 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:08.880 told us, you know, given us a history about. Yeah. 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:10.720 He came to me one time and I'm hanging out 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.720 at the Trail, Spanish Trail, and you know, I'm gonna 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.919 tell you this, but but I'm just all right. I 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:18.640 don't think we can go anywhere with it, you know. 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:20.919 But I'm gonna say this. If we do decide to 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:24.159 go someplace with it, you guys gotta give me a hand, Okay, 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.040 huh okay, don't throw me out there. Then no fucking 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:29.440 wolves or nothing. But I don't see how we can 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:31.880 possibly go anywhere with it. He came to me and 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:33.920 I'm at the Trail, the Spanish Trail motel, one of 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:35.960 the biggest at the time, one of the biggest in town. 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.000 People friends of mine own it. They were half asked 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:41.600 Louis Marconi and his dad. I pretty much had the 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:43.320 run of the place. If he wanted a room to 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:45.279 spend the night, I wanted to bring abroad. Come and 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:47.360 see me. Is a key for you? Just do your 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:49.880 favorite the bar tab I could drink all I want, 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:53.160 eat all I want. I was there. Guy Joey came 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:54.520 to me and asked me if I could get him 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:56.200 a room for one night, you know, for a friend 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:58.920 of his who favorite for the old man is what 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.720 he said, No problem, man, you know I got him 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:05.480 a room. He said, I'll meet you down here tomorrow afternoon. 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.200 So the next afternoon he met me. I gave him 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:10.480 a key to the room. He said, take a ride 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.720 with me to the airport. We drove to the airport. Well, 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:15.080 I hate to sell you all this ship, but I'm 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.440 just gonna tell you. Okay. He goes inside the airport. 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:20.640 I sit out in the car. He came out with 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:23.720 Peggy Baggage. We got in the car. He introduced her 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:25.720 to me as Margaret. We went back to the hotel, 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.360 took her to a room. What year would this have been, 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:33.200 This would have been seventy two summer, all right. We 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.120 went back to the hotel. I gave her the key 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:37.760 to the room, took her bag. She had just one bag. 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:40.800 Went in there. Joey left. I left. I had my 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:43.960 room there. It was up the way. Joey says to 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:45.680 me before he leaves, he said, why don't you have 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.480 dinner with us tonight? I said, sure, you know, he says, 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:51.080 pick her up at eight o'clock, come to the Conti Qui. 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:54.080 It's a Pollinesian showing here in town. I called her 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:56.600 about seven thirty. I said, I'm supposed to pick you up. 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.640 Be about of banking. I'll be ready. So I go 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:01.920 and pick her up. We drive to the Cantiqui. We 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:04.600 went in there there's Joey the Eye and Joe Panano. 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:06.880 I went to the table. We went to the table, 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:09.080 the four of us. We sat there, We ate, we ordered, 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:12.800 we ate. Now, Joe Banano was not my buddy. He's 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:14.840 not a type of guy hang around with nothing. But 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:16.800 I knew the old man. I knew him from his son, 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:20.160 Joey Jr. I took his wife, Faye one time when 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:21.920 she was here in two sons. Give you a little 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:25.040 background here. And she had to go to California to 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:28.080 San Francisco to her daughter's house, which was Katherine Genevise, 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:31.160 and he asked me, he sent word for me to 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:33.200 pick up his wife, take her and drive her to 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.160 San Francisco, which was sort of like, you know how 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:38.720 those daggos are. I mean, you don't just they don't 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:41.400 throw anybody in their car with their wives, you know 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:45.040 what I mean, especially you know, mother and children. So 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.480 I'm the one that took faith to San Francisco, to 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.320 Genevese's house. Anyway, he's there and he gives me that 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:53.840 old bullshit that he always does. Oh, you're a good boy. 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:56.320 You're a good boy. You're my boy, joe You looked 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:58.640 up for my boy, Joey. He gives me all that ship. 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:01.960 We had dinner there and we ate. After dinner, Joey 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.160 the eye gives me the sign he wants to talk 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:06.400 to me, so we go to the bar. I leave 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:08.320 the two of them alone. We went to the bar. 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:10.120 We had a few drinks, me and him sitting there, 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.120 you know, and basically I could I sensed right away 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:15.040 what it was. It was just to get me away 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.680 from the table. He didn't say that, you know, but 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:20.240 I didn't question him, you know, you know what time 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:22.720 it is in cases like that. And we went back 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:24.400 to the table after a while, and that was it. 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:29.160 They left. I took her. We went to the Barons, 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:32.360 which was a bar here in town, did a little dancing, 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.000 a little drinking, ship like that, and that's how I 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:39.600 met her. I got friendly with her about two weeks after. 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:42.439 When I say two weeks three weeks after that, Joey 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:44.160 the Eye came to me and says, you want to 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:47.240 take a trip, okay, for the old man? For us, 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:49.920 he said, for us? So I said sure. I said 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:52.719 all right. He says, meet me down here. He gave 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:54.760 me a certain time to meet him. He says, don't 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.000 pack a bag. He says, just bring us suit travel 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.880 travel light because you're gonna be going one night. May 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:03.520 be too peca. He was explicit about this, for me, 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.680 not to bring a suitcase, bring us suit bag. So 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:08.480 I took just a soup bag with a couple pairs 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:10.640 of underwear and there pairs of socks, a change of 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.080 one change. He picked me up, he drove me to 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:16.320 the airport. He's got a one way ticket to Alaska. 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:18.760 I've never been to Alaska, he says. Gene foul is 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:21.040 going to meet you at the airport. Okay, Now I 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.559 knew he knew Fouler because you know, Fouler used to 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:26.720 come to Justice Court all the time. He was hanging 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:28.600 out over there at the time, and everybody like that. 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.480 I've never seen old name Banano never came in there 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:35.880 to my knowledge. Okay. I got on the plane. Oh, 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:37.560 when he drove up there, he gave me the suitcase 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:39.800 and the key to it. He said, here, don't even 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:41.680 open this funck and just take it to Fowler. He'll 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.080 meet you at the airport. Fouler meets me at the 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:46.319 airport when I get off the plane to Alaska. I've 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:49.240 never been there before. Danny's even itches with him, and 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.160 he went to some fucking It wasn't a hotel. It's 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:54.400 like an apartment. That's where I spent the night. And 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:56.640 I gave him a suitcase. Now that's all I know. 0:09:57.320 --> 0:09:59.880 Later on, Danny tells me when I get back there, 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.520 I went back. This must have been I'm gonna say 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.840 September seventy two. I went back April seventy three, and 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:10.160 me and Zivinage got real tight. Okay. I hung out 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:11.920 with Jean for a little while there at Chef's in 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:15.440 and all that stuff, Me and Zivinage got real tight. 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.080 Zivinache told me later that it was a fucking bomb 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:22.600 and a high high tech bomb, you know, m hmm. Now, 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:24.800 I don't know if he was just bullshit me. When 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.000 did that plane go down? You know, when did it 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.240 go down? It went down in October seventy two. I 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:32.040 don't know who put it on there. I don't know. 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:34.560 I don't even know if I was being bullshitted, if 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.320 I was being lied to. I sort of feel like 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.520 I was being told the truth. Well, when did I 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:43.280 know that Peggy and Zivinitch we're half and I'm not 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:46.360 saying Peggy even had this done? You know, I don't know. 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:50.439 I don't know what what what the fucking story was there? 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:52.640 You know? I know that it was something I wanted 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.520 to I wanted to know, but I didn't want to 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.280 delve too much off into it. But it was Now, 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:00.760 who was it that told you that this high tech bomb? 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.360 Was that Gene Fowler that told you that? Or that 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:08.120 was Danny's Vinache, Danny Zvinach, my partner. See see, I 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:09.880 never heard of him in years. I have no idea 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.360 where he's even at He's real low pro he's real 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:14.920 low profile. He didn't get into the drugs with us, 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:17.920 He stayed out of the trucks. Do you know where 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:21.160 he's at now or anything? Danny's ivanach. I heard he's 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.079 an anchorage, still an anchorage, or I here owns a 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.360 bar out there. But I don't know for sure. I 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.440 know that me, him and Peggy went into business together, 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.040 and she'd give him the she'd give us the money 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.839 to open that joint. What do I think my own 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.560 personal opinion, I don't know. I don't know. I know 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:40.520 that these people got tentacles that can reach all over 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:44.559 the country. Sometimes, I mean, that would be so fucking heavy. 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:48.560 I mean, that's like killing the president for christ you know. Well, yeah, 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:54.280 if it's even true. Yeah, And now a quick ad break, 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.960 and now we're back with more of the transcript. I 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:26.800 do know this. I know I kept the suitcase. I 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:28.840 know I had the key, and I never opened it. 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:31.400 In fact, I never even I just carried it to 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:33.720 the counter. They took it when I got off the baggage, 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:35.600 picked it up in Gean Fowler took the fucking bag, 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.840 you know. So I never opened it, but I wouldn't 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:40.720 have done that anyway. I didn't know what was in it. 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:45.200 I knew it wasn't drugs, though, Well, where where did 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:47.920 I mean, this first meeting down here is the first 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.720 time you ever met Peggy? Right? Yeah? Where did you 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:52.800 meet these other people at? I mean, did she know 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:56.320 the criminal you never heard? Or how long they've known her? 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.800 I don't know. I really don't know, you know, and 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.400 I you know, I tried to ask her, and she 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:05.480 was sort of secretive about that, you know. I mean 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.400 because during that time her husband was then a congressman, 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.560 you know, and you know what, you just sort of 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:13.720 expect them to travel in a different circle, and I 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:17.440 was wondering where she would have met all these people at. Well, see, 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:19.880 here's the thing. Let me say something to you about that. 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:24.480 You say, different circles. The fucking deacon, see, anybody's was 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:26.520 with them down there? You know. The head of the 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.319 FBI for the Anchorage area name was Jay Daley. He 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:30.920 was at my house for parties and ship like that 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.800 after I married her. You know, even the chief police 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:36.240 whatever his name was at the time, flying again at 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:38.400 that time, I can't remember what his name was. But 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:40.520 we go to banquets and ship and we'd sit at 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.160 his table. He'd sit with us and try and remember 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:45.760 I can't think of his name, you know, It's just 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.800 one of those things. Uh. They were around there, Pat Brown, 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:51.480 you know, he came to town, he'd come to the house. 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:55.559 You know. Yeah, I know what you're saying. I don't know, man, 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.920 I don't know. Well, when did you get back after 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.440 you got back to Anchorage, when did you get back 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:04.920 together with her? When when did you see her again? 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:07.880 I went back up in April when I was working 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:09.760 at the holiday in and she came to town. She 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.720 checked into the holiday and she was staying there. See, 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.280 and I've worked my shift. I was working the day shift, 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:17.880 I think at that time. And me and her go 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.720 honky tonk and at night and one thing leads to another, 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:23.760 and you know, well we got married and she says, 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:26.280 what do you want to do? I want to have 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:28.920 me a bar, you know, And we were hanging out 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:32.440 with Danny a little bit, you know. Danny came in 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:34.000 with us. So the three of us bought that bar. 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:36.760 I came down here and bought a house, bought a 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.080 brand new house out here at the end of Speedway five. 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:40.960 Acres of land paid seventy five thousand for it in 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.640 those days, grand cash down. Yeah, I'd imagine she got 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.360 quite a quite an insurance settlement she got. She got 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:51.560 fucking he had double indemnity on the apartments. Is that right? 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:55.160 Am I saying that right? Double indemnity accidental death benefit 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.480 type thing. Yeah, you get paid twice, I think, yeah, 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.120 you know, depending on what the policy you got and 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.840 the mortgage. The apartments were paid off free and clear. 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.640 Mm hmm. Did they blow him up? I don't know. 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:11.080 Did JB have him blown up? I don't know. I 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.000 know I took a fucking package up there and they 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.840 said it was a bomb, Danny did They might have 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:18.360 been bullshit me? What kind of bag was it they 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:23.760 took up there? It wasn't. It was a suitcase, a suitcase, Yeah, 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.680 but it wasn't a big one. Mm hmm. And that's 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.880 all like hard suitcase or a soft suitcase. Looked like 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:32.040 it was soft. I mean, you know, if I pressed 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:34.640 on it, could I have felt something in their fabric 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.280 side or was it plastic hard side? I think it 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.760 was cloth. It was leather. I think it was hard leather. 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:44.360 I just started pressing on him now this would have 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:48.600 been you went up there that How many months were you? 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:52.040 I mean that plane went down November? Was it November, 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:55.160 October or October? I'm not sure, I can't remember. I 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:59.640 know it was early winner fall. You went up there? 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.200 Wind was that during the summer or something? Or I 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:06.680 went up there? Must have been September September, Okay, yeah, 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:08.720 it must have been September because I I was hanging 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.320 out at the trail then you know enjoy the eyes, 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:15.320 the one that gave you the bag. Yeah, yeah, that 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.080 that would have been probably late October, early November, because 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.480 when the plane went down, well, because his purpose for 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:22.840 being up there was to help the Biggitch campaign for 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.840 re election, I believe. Yeah. Now later on I was 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:28.680 down here when he went down, and we were all 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:30.640 in the office over there on Broadway. A matter of fact, 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:34.280 it was Walter Prito's office, remember Pritto, But he had 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.520 an office over there on speed on Broadway and country Club, 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.480 right across from the Austin Sandwich shop upstairs in the 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:42.800 Coldwell bankup building. They had a big sign on it, 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:46.680 and we're all in there, me, Louis mcconi, him, somebody else. 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.160 I can't think of a couple more guys, and they 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:51.680 were talking about bogs and the plane going down, and 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.120 it was Pritto that said something about, well the funk 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.240 funk with the FBI or something like that. They probably 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.720 blew them up or something like that. That's what asshole 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:01.880 pre O said, you know. So he's the one that 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:04.960 brought up that ship about blown him up. You know, now, 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:07.920 were they blown up? Nobody knows if they were blown 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:10.359 up there because they never found it. Not a trace, 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:13.560 not a trace of the fucking thing. I thought about it, well, 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:18.960 you know how the country is up there though, I mean, well, yeah, yeah, exactly, 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:21.680 you know, And I thought about it, and like when 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.479 Danny was talking to me. See Danny was drunk, you know, 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.399 you know how guys are when they get drunk, you 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:29.520 know how they start their whiskey, start your running off. 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:31.520 And he was talking about being a high tech fucker 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:34.080 and just how high tech was it, you know, And 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.520 not only that, I thought about this later. You know, 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:39.240 From what I understand, the plane was a spur of 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:42.920 the moment plan. Yeah I don't recall, did you did 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:45.000 you enough of it? From what I understand, they were 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:48.159 gonna fly commercial to Juno. I know it was a 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.119 charter right, they were gonna fly commercial to Juneo and 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:53.560 the flights that night, so all at once they jumped 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.960 up and said, well, let's chatter a plane. So you know, 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:01.000 just how if if they they would have had a bomb, 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:03.200 how do they know they're going to try to a plane, 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:06.320 you know? And how do they and how do they 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.600 get it on there afterwards? Yeah? You know what I mean? Sure, 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:12.560 See unless it was made for a car and they 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:14.240 were going to put it up under a car somewhere 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:17.080 and said well fuck it, let's get the plane. Well 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.639 how do those people know that? See, that's where the 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:23.080 mystery comes in from me, you know, yeah, because they 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.040 don't know nothing about that. Yeah, you know what, I 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:28.119 don't know. I remember when it went down, but I 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:30.919 just don't know enough about the details about it. You know. 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:33.919 She she ran around on him a lot, you know 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:39.840 that she had her. Yeah that wasn't Shelly, was it? Now? 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:42.040 She had her an Air Force pilot from was it 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:46.080 Elmendorf Air Force Base? That's where he was out of See, 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:48.800 I've heard that a year or two before he was killed. Yeah, 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:51.240 she had her. She was screwing around. She had a 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.359 black a black man, and Nick knew it. Nick went 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:56.880 to Jesse Car and cried like a baby and said, hey, 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:58.800 she told me that he's coming to Washington with us, 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:02.240 you know. And I guess he did go somehow or 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:04.480 other he got transferred down there or something, you know, 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:06.879 And Nick said he couldn't do nothing about it. I 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:11.320 never off into that with her. Peggy never did say 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:13.919 anything about that plane going down. I stayed away from 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:15.720 over there. The only time we ever talked about it. 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:18.840 Trying to think now, No, she didn't talk about it. 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:20.720 She never talked about it. The only thing she mentioned 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:22.920 about that plane was that the president called her, who 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:26.240 wasn't Nixon at the time. Nixon called her and told 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:27.960 her that he's sending some kind of special plane to 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.919 try and find it. And she stayed away from all that. 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:33.840 She used to get mail from nuts telling her that 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.840 they knew where he was and all this. You know, 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:41.800 what have you since you you got a divorce from her? 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:45.919 What year seventy seven? Have you had any comment with 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.879 her at all or corresponded with her? None at all? Well, 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:52.880 I backed out of that. I backed out of that deal. Zeven. 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:55.200 That showed me some money. I got my money from him, 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:57.640 and I just backed away from that whole deal up there. 0:19:57.720 --> 0:19:59.560 You know. You see, there's a lot of a lot 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:01.560 of pieces to that puzzle that will never be able 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:05.320 to put together, you know. Now, I was out of 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:08.040 a target range once, not a target, yeah, at the 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.399 target range down there on the way to Seward shooting 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:13.320 range out Dupotters. I was down there shooting one day, 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.959 me and Lance and south Spinelli, and we looked up 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:18.560 on the hill and Lance come up to me and 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:21.800 he says, there's a Volkswagen up there. Guy is watching us. 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:24.600 A few minutes later, I glanced up there and I 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:26.800