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Speaker 1: Natalie Wood was one of the most popular sought after

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Speaker 1: actresses in Hollywood. This is America, sweeth talk. This story

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Speaker 1: is huge. It was Thanksgiving weekend when Would Enter actor

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Speaker 1: husband Robert Wagner, went sailing on their yacht, the Splendor.

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Speaker 1: They were joined by actor and friend Christopher walkin This

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Speaker 1: Is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Wagner notified Captain Dennis

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Speaker 1: Davern that Would was not on board. Wagner, let's turn

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Speaker 1: on the searchlight to see if we can see her,

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Speaker 1: and he said, no, we don't want to do that

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Speaker 1: right now. Do you believe that maybe Robert Wagner has

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Speaker 1: been hiding the real truth of what happened that night

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Speaker 1: all these years? I fully believe that we ever seen

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Speaker 1: information which we felt was substantial enough to make us

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Speaker 1: take another look at this case. It's old information that

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Speaker 1: was never looked at that should have been looked at.

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Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace This Is Crime Story is joining us

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Speaker 1: right now. Is a very special guest. It's Marty Ruly,

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Speaker 1: co author of Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendor, which is now

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Speaker 1: available on Amazon and in audio on audible dot Com. Marty,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us the case

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Speaker 1: against Robert Wagner, we have heard has been reopened according

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Speaker 1: to sources. Let me rephrase that, not the case against

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Speaker 1: Robert Wagner, the case of Natalie Woods drowning death has

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Speaker 1: been reopened. What do you make of that? I mean

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Speaker 1: when they say it's been reopened? What do they mean

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Speaker 1: by that? The actual closed case in that was closed

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Speaker 1: within days of Natalie's suspicious death was reopened in November?

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Speaker 1: And what I make of it? His head? I worked

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Speaker 1: many years on trying to get that to happen, and

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Speaker 1: finally it did happen. And the beautiful thing that came

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Speaker 1: from it is that two new detectives were assigned to

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Speaker 1: the case who left no stone unturned and they have

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Speaker 1: ended up believing what I spent many years trying to

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Speaker 1: get them to believe. And they interviewed hundreds of people,

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Speaker 1: not just Dennis de Verne, who is the main eye

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Speaker 1: and ear witness of Natalie's death the night that she

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Speaker 1: was actually in the ocean, and Dennis al everything that

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Speaker 1: happened that led to her death. And these detectives now

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Speaker 1: believe that this homicide case should remain open because it

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Speaker 1: is solvable. They have a suspect, they do not come

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Speaker 1: out and say they have a suspect. It's been quiet,

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Speaker 1: but it is not over, and that the Natalie Wood

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Speaker 1: case is still an open and active case. Marty, after

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Speaker 1: all of your energy, all of your time that you

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Speaker 1: poured into the Natalie Wood death investigation, what do you

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Speaker 1: believe is the most powerful evidence that suggests Natalie did

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Speaker 1: not die by accident. It's more than just the argument

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Speaker 1: and that more than one witness overheard on Saturday night.

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Speaker 1: This everything leading to Natalie's death started months before this

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Speaker 1: fateful cruise. That Thanksgiving weekend of Robert Wagner traveled months

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Speaker 1: ahead to visit Natalie in North Carolina, where she was

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Speaker 1: filming with Christopher Walkin on Brainstorm. He told Dennis of

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Speaker 1: Verne he was going there to catch her cheating. He

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Speaker 1: knew she was cheating. There's no evidence of that, but

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Speaker 1: in his mind that's what he thought he would go

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Speaker 1: there and find. He came back, he seemed satisfied he

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Speaker 1: did not catch Natalie doing anything wrong. But his whole

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Speaker 1: entire personality demeanor changed at that time. He started disappearing

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Speaker 1: at nights Dennis. Dennis saw them on a daily basis,

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Speaker 1: even in everyday life, and Robert Wagner wasn't coming to

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Speaker 1: the boat, he wasn't available at night. He was making

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Speaker 1: comments to Dennis that were frightening. Dennis didn't know what

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Speaker 1: was going on. He figured when Natalie was done her

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Speaker 1: location filming, everything would get back to normal. They'd start

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Speaker 1: to come out on the boat. And that's what happened.

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Speaker 1: Natalie finished her filming, it was Thanksgiving weekend, and she

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Speaker 1: wanted to take her co star of her new movie

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Speaker 1: on the boat for a cruise. It's what that family did.

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Speaker 1: Robert Wagner had his people on board, the people he

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Speaker 1: worked with. Natalie would have her co star Sean Connery, um,

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Speaker 1: anyone she worked with, It would George Seagull, they would

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Speaker 1: come on board. So Natalie invited Christopher Walking. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of speculation. No, she was cheating, as like, who

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Speaker 1: would have their co star on board the boat with

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Speaker 1: their husband and make him jealous. This is what that

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Speaker 1: family did. That's not what happened. So the Friday night

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Speaker 1: of the cruise, the Friday night is the night people

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Speaker 1: the law, everyone should be focusing on. Friday night is

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Speaker 1: when the arguments started. They were moored. They were anchored

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Speaker 1: in Avalon where there's a lot of things to do

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Speaker 1: on the island. Robert Wagner late at night, did not

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Speaker 1: want to stay in Avalon. He wanted to move to

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Speaker 1: the remote, secluded part of the island where there's only

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Speaker 1: one restaurant that closes about ten thirsda. What's avalon. Avalon

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Speaker 1: is the city on Catalina Island where there's activities, restaurants,

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Speaker 1: curio shops. They were in a nice area for entertaining.

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Speaker 1: Natalie just wanted to entertain her co star. Robert Wagner

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Speaker 1: is who wanted to go to the other end of

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Speaker 1: the island where it's very remote and quiet. Why on

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Speaker 1: Friday night when it's raining and cold, and that's the

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Speaker 1: night the water was choppy, not the night Natalie died.

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Speaker 1: The next night Natalie refused, Robert Wagner went crazy with anger,

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Speaker 1: pulling anchor, saying he's moving the boat. Natalie was afraid

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Speaker 1: Friday night, and I think that's when the seed that

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Speaker 1: was already growing in Robert Wagner grew to two proportions.

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Speaker 1: Their sinister that he wanted that quiet part of the

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Speaker 1: island for reasons that have to do with what happened

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Speaker 1: to Natalie the next night. So they stayed. Natalie left

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Speaker 1: the island, left the boat I'm sorry with Dennis to

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Speaker 1: Verne and they went to Avalon and Dennis and Natalie

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Speaker 1: stayed in a hotel room together. Now Natalie she was

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Speaker 1: she didn't like being alone. She was afraid that night,

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Speaker 1: probably more so of maybe her husband showing up than

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Speaker 1: of strangers. Dennis stayed in the same room with Natalie

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Speaker 1: and she vented until four in the morning. They talked

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Speaker 1: and she was very upset with Robert Wagner. Why he

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Speaker 1: was doing this to her. She was going to catch

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Speaker 1: a seaplane in the morning, and how sad that um

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Speaker 1: there were no planes available, There was no way off

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Speaker 1: the island. She decided to go back to the boat,

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Speaker 1: but they were going to go back to the mainland,

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Speaker 1: which Dennis begged Robert Wagner to do. But Wagner was

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Speaker 1: so apologetic, he was sweet again. He apologized to Natalie.

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Speaker 1: Let's still go to the other end of the island,

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Speaker 1: is what he wanted to do. They went to two

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Speaker 1: harbors at the Isthmus and that's where they moored and

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Speaker 1: the only place there is a restaurant. Robert Wagner is

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Speaker 1: who told Natalie go ahead to the island with with

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Speaker 1: Christopher and have yourself some drinks and Dennis and I

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Speaker 1: will join you later. And Natalie and Christopher took a taxi,

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Speaker 1: a sure taxi to the restaurant. Robert Wagner and Dennis

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Speaker 1: joined them for dinner, for cocktails and dinner. But before that,

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Speaker 1: Dennis still pleaded with r J to leave and go

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Speaker 1: home to the mainland. And r J said to Dennis, no,

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Speaker 1: Natalie will get what she came for and a lot more.

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Speaker 1: And the way that Robert Wagner said that was so

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Speaker 1: sinister that Dennis was so afraid something was going to

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Speaker 1: happen that he pleaded again to leave for the mainland.

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Speaker 1: But they went to dinner and that's when the trouble started.

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Speaker 1: And then they got back to the boat, that argument

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Speaker 1: argument and started. And that's it, though, that you say,

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Speaker 1: Robert Wagner, even though he was extremely jealous and he had,

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Speaker 1: it's that of Christopher Walking sends Natalie and Walking to

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Speaker 1: go out drinking alone before he and Dennis get there,

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Speaker 1: and they were all so inebriated. The restaurant owner was

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Speaker 1: worried about them even getting back to the splendor that night. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that gave Wagner every reason to say she was out

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Speaker 1: drinking with her co star. He is the one who

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Speaker 1: pleaded with them. You know, it was his way of

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Speaker 1: apologizing YouTube, go have fun. I am so sorry for

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Speaker 1: last night. He was not sorry. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: think that. You know, when Natalie went missing, Robert Wagner

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Speaker 1: didn't know what to do. That's why he waited to

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Speaker 1: call for help. I don't think he was worrying about

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Speaker 1: planning what he would do. I think he was following

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Speaker 1: a plan. You don't wait two and a half hours

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Speaker 1: when your wife is missing to call a restaurant for help,

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Speaker 1: and then a another two hours on top of that

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Speaker 1: to allow he gave had to give permission forum the

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Speaker 1: harbor master to call for help with the Coastguard. And

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Speaker 1: now medical evidence since the new case has been reopened.

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Speaker 1: Medical evidence shows that Natalie was never conscious in the water,

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Speaker 1: so there probably isn't much the coastguard could have done

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Speaker 1: except maybe recover her body earlier than the morning time.

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Speaker 1: But there are so many details in this case that

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Speaker 1: of course do not reach the public yet. Um the media.

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Speaker 1: One statements from the law. The law is hands off

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Speaker 1: until they can make an actual arrest or form a

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Speaker 1: grand jury. Because of the celebrity involved, Natalie's case is

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Speaker 1: one of the strongest circumstantial cases ever. Any regular Joe

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Speaker 1: would be already be in prison with far less evidence

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Speaker 1: involved Um and the case again left in the hands

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Speaker 1: of a few people who still care. I mean, thank goodness.

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Speaker 1: Lana Wood, Natalie's sister, is a blood relative who gave

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Speaker 1: the nod to the Cold Case Institute now involved in

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Speaker 1: this and every single thing that they are investigating with

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Speaker 1: experts and the forensic tests that I conducted in my

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Speaker 1: own private investigation. The Cold Case Institution is now realizing

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Speaker 1: everything that I've been saying for thirty years. And and

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Speaker 1: if you know, a lot of people question Dennis to Verne.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of backstory there too. But it's an

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Speaker 1: open case and I think that we will get to it.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, What's what's taking so long? Celebrity?

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Speaker 1: You know, Um, the law is so afraid that a

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Speaker 1: jury will not put Um Jonathan Hart behind bars. Bretta

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Speaker 1: dr Huxtable. It just happens when celebrity is involved and

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Speaker 1: the celebrity has a high profile attorney attached, there's always

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Speaker 1: the threat of being sued. You have to be careful

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Speaker 1: how you word things. But now um Corina in charge

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Speaker 1: of this case at the l A. S D. He

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Speaker 1: has come out in articles and said they do have

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Speaker 1: a person of interest. They are focused on one person here.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the greater media just doesn't pick up

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Speaker 1: on these things. They're not following a case where information

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Speaker 1: isn't coming directly from the authorities. And I understand that.

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Speaker 1: And Robert Wagner is he's aging now. And the one

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Speaker 1: thing that I would like to guarantee people is that

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Speaker 1: even if this case does not make it to a courtroom,

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Speaker 1: the truth will make it to be attached to Natalie's

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Speaker 1: legacy be because she does deserve that. I mean, my

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Speaker 1: mantra is Natalie Wood didn't get drunk and fall off

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Speaker 1: of a boat. Natalie is a victim, a beaten wife

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Speaker 1: who was thrown into the ocean and left to die,

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Speaker 1: and not because she did anything wrong, but just because

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Speaker 1: her husband is a sociopath. And I'm not afraid to

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Speaker 1: say it. I have the backup information to prove it.

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Speaker 1: Tell me why you call him a sociopath. If all

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Speaker 1: one has to do is read his autobiography from page one,

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Speaker 1: you can see that development in his personality. But um,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of people, UM, psychologist, psychiatrist I've

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Speaker 1: spoken with to coninue. You know, I've done my own

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Speaker 1: profiling of Robert Wagner and Dennis Now and Dennis said,

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Speaker 1: you never knew if this man was just in a

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Speaker 1: perpetual acting job. I mean, he didn't change from being

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Speaker 1: on a set to when he was on a boat,

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Speaker 1: when he was at his house in the backyard barbecuing.

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Speaker 1: He always had an act going. Um, there are so

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Speaker 1: many details that point to this, um sociopathic behavior. There

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Speaker 1: are pathological liar behavior. Even in an interview. You know,

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Speaker 1: he'll sometimes slip and say things, Um, instead of Natalie

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Speaker 1: fell into the water that you would say if you

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Speaker 1: know nothing, his words will be something like and then

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Speaker 1: she rolled off the swim step into the water. His

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Speaker 1: visual his mind's eye, is probably verbalizing what he's seeing

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Speaker 1: in his in his mind for what he saw that night.

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Speaker 1: And Um, an unconscious body doesn't roll in off a

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Speaker 1: swim step by itself. Question do you regarding calling him

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Speaker 1: a sociopath? Of course, he denies any involvement. And Natalie

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Speaker 1: Wood's drowning death it always struck me as a very

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Speaker 1: odd knowing her frame of mind, her m O motors

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Speaker 1: operan dimet of operation, of course of conduct. If you

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Speaker 1: look at any photo of her any time she's out

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Speaker 1: and about, even the grocery store, she's dressed up. When

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Speaker 1: she's out, even on in a swimsuit with her family,

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Speaker 1: She's got on a cover up, wedge heels, one of

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Speaker 1: those long scarfs over her head, sunglasses, jewelry, the whole

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Speaker 1: ship bank. That was her deal. That was how she dressed.

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Speaker 1: There is no way in h E double l that

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Speaker 1: woman went out in a flannel nightgown, wool socks up

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Speaker 1: to her knees, no underwear, and a and a down

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Speaker 1: jacket in the middle of the night, out on black

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Speaker 1: ocean water and waves gets really afraid of Yeah, if

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Speaker 1: I foot a little petite lady gets down the side

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Speaker 1: of that boat into a dinghy and plans to un

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Speaker 1: rope it, when always she had the cap to do it.

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Speaker 1: That's why they had him, but so he could do

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Speaker 1: it and she wouldn't have to do it. Okay, exactly,

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Speaker 1: and not only never did that. Ever, That's why I

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Speaker 1: don't change the oil. I break down. I pay some

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Speaker 1: money twenty five dollars to do it because I don't

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Speaker 1: want to get up under the car and do it myself. Bam,

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Speaker 1: that's how that works. And she had the money where

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Speaker 1: she could have this guy on board, and he was

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Speaker 1: on board. So why is this woman who is I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying appearance obsessed because she did that for her fans.

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Speaker 1: I doubt she wanted to go through the drama of

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Speaker 1: getting all fixed up every time she stepped out the door.

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Speaker 1: But she did it because she said, people expect to

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Speaker 1: see now Lee would and I'm going to be a star. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and that Natalie was from old Hollywood crossing over. But

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Speaker 1: she still did what she thought her fans expected. And

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Speaker 1: why out of this night of all nights now when

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Speaker 1: she had rowed ashore, when she had gone ashore the

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Speaker 1: previous night, she didn't drive the dinghy. This is a

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Speaker 1: crank cup ignition dinghy. It's not like you get out

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Speaker 1: there and and row. Okay, Ben, When that dingy was found,

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Speaker 1: the key was still in the off O F F position.

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Speaker 1: Natalie never touched that dinghy. And then that Dennis de

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Speaker 1: Burne does know and Natalie never used the dinghy. But

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Speaker 1: now you Robert Wagner will say she used the dinghy

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Speaker 1: that weekend that she and and a witness came forward

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Speaker 1: and said she saw Natalie driving Christopher walking in the dinghy.

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Speaker 1: That did not happen. Natalie never drove that dinghy on

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Speaker 1: her own. Um, there's ways to prove all these little

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Speaker 1: it picking details that he said, she says. But the truth,

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Speaker 1: the truth is documented now and two homicide detectives are

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Speaker 1: confident they have their man. But it's because of the

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Speaker 1: department they can't make a move, and it's because of

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Speaker 1: a prosecutor. It is now time for um, the l

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Speaker 1: a prosecution to come forward and do something with this

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Speaker 1: case that still needs attention. They won't close the case,

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Speaker 1: but they do need to do something with it. It's time.

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Speaker 1: Why is Natalie Wood being treated differently than other victims? What?

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Speaker 1: What can you tell me with me? Is Marty Rule,

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Speaker 1: co author of Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendor. It is found

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Speaker 1: on Amazon dot com. It's at audible dot com if

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Speaker 1: you want to hear her, if you want to hear

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Speaker 1: it audibly. What is new? What information can you give

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Speaker 1: us to day? Well? The new autopsy results are there

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Speaker 1: was things missing in the original overlooked in the original autopsy.

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Speaker 1: UH coroner Negucci did not do a thorough job. And Um,

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Speaker 1: the main thing is that there's medical evidence that proves

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Speaker 1: Natalie was unconscious before being in the water. But the bruises.

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Speaker 1: Natalie's body was riddled with bruises and they are now

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Speaker 1: considered domestic violence bruises. There's no way that it could

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Speaker 1: have come after. These type bruises could have come after

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Speaker 1: she was in the water. And so this new medical

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Speaker 1: scientific evidence leads points to murder and points to a

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Speaker 1: victim here, and that is the main thing. It caused

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Speaker 1: Natalie's death certificate to be changed from accidental drowning to

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Speaker 1: suspicious um undetermined causes. And now it's up to the

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Speaker 1: authorities at the l a s D to present the

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Speaker 1: evidence that coincides with the new autopsy results. This case

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Speaker 1: does deserve a grand jury. Now, a lot of new

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Speaker 1: evidence has been uncovered since eleven. Well, it's documented evidence. Now,

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Speaker 1: it's not just someone saying this should be reopened. The

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Speaker 1: case has been reopened, has been investigated. There are far

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Speaker 1: more details than have ever been UM. The details about

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Speaker 1: what happened the night before Natalie's death that leads to premeditation.

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Speaker 1: There are details involved, UM with new witnesses that came

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Speaker 1: forward proving that Robert Wagner since Natalie's death, went on

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Speaker 1: missions to destroy other people's lives, Dennis de Verne being

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Speaker 1: one of them. Launa would another anyone he thought could

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Speaker 1: bring him trouble. He made sure he asked his friends

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Speaker 1: do this, do that, and they weren't nice things. He

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Speaker 1: was asking these people to do to hurt these people's

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Speaker 1: lives so that they appeared the incredible people involved. So

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Speaker 1: much misinformation has evolved with this death, this mystery death,

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Speaker 1: but it's a simple non mystery. It's a classic case

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Speaker 1: of husband kills wife, and authorities know that now. But

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Speaker 1: celebrity is involved. There's a high profile criminal defense attorney

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Speaker 1: who's making videos and hiring UM people posing as experts

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Speaker 1: in the Natalie Wood case. The experts are at the

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Speaker 1: l A s D. And maybe if the media, the

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Speaker 1: mainstream media, started asking more questions, they might start to

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Speaker 1: release more information. I am so relieved to hear that

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Speaker 1: the cold case UM research investigative investigation has came into

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Speaker 1: this and it was her time to shine. She was,

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Speaker 1: you know, she was back doing what she loved doing,

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Speaker 1: and that irritated Robert Wagner so much led to why

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Speaker 1: he did what he did that night. He was irritated.

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Speaker 1: He was going to make her pay for it. He

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Speaker 1: said those words to Dennis de Verne, she will pay

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Speaker 1: for this and and and as for Dennis to Verne,

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Speaker 1: he was Robert Wagner. What he did with him after

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Speaker 1: Natalie was missing, was pleaded with him. It got fed him. Alcohol.

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Speaker 1: Tried to make Dennis be on board with how he

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Speaker 1: wanted to present this to the authorities. He pleaded with Dennis,

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Speaker 1: don't hurt the girls, don't say anything. Dennis was put

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Speaker 1: on an immediate guilt trip and it started to eat

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Speaker 1: away at him immediately. Dennis didn't come forward with his information.

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Speaker 1: Thirty years later, he came forward with it just months

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Speaker 1: inter Natalie died and no one would listen to us. Nancy,

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Speaker 1: it took decades for people to listen to us, and

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Speaker 1: now it's still a full blown homicide investigation. With me

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Speaker 1: is Marty Ruly, author of Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendor, available

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Speaker 1: at Amazon dot Com and on Audible books. We are

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Speaker 1: hoping for justice in the Natalie Wood's drowning case. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us, Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing

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Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,