1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Hey guys, So we spend a big chunk of today's 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: episode discussing only fans and their recent policy changes. However, 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: that conversation was recorded prior to them reversing those policy changes. 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: But the conversation was great. I think it's really interesting 5 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: and important, and we cover a lot of great ground 6 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: and we have a very cool guest. Uh So we're 7 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and we are going to run it anyway. 8 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 1: You're welcome and thank you. Welcome to Worst Year Ever, 9 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome Together Everything. Welcome 10 00:00:54,280 --> 00:01:03,279 Speaker 1: to the Worst Year Ever. Bross and Brofanas, the two 11 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: genders rose getting Latin up in this ship. We have 12 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: to you know, I I think thank you for being 13 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: inclusive of our Latin speaking native listeners, of whom we 14 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: have ones. So I want to start this episode with 15 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: a little continuation of our Afghanistan episode because I was 16 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 1: just on Facebook and a friend of mine a segment. 17 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: A friend of mine shared a segment from someone else's 18 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: post that I think really says it all. Quote Taliban's 19 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: retakeover shows what implacable hustle and a Sigma grind set 20 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: can get for you. Even the biggest turtles the biggest 21 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: foes are nothing compared to a player with his eyes 22 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: on the bag. Your mixtape ain't banging, your e book 23 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: ain't selling. Just don't quit your caboul is yours. The 24 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: military was the chatl unbelievable, Robert. I really thought that 25 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: we'd unpacked everything last week, and then we talked about 26 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: it some more and even more news, and at that 27 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: point I was like, yeah, we're done talking about Afghanistan, 28 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: but you broke the mold. Here new to offer. Yeah, 29 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: we're doing this whole episode. We're gonna talk about the Taliban. 30 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: Sigma grind Set. Here to tell us about the Sigma 31 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: grind Set is Courtney Kossak. Courtney, Oh my god, this 32 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: is a whole another episode that I was expecting. Yeah, 33 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: that's not. When did it come clear to you that 34 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: the Taliban were ultimate Sigma's coming live from the Taliban? Yeah? 35 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 1: You were here to talk about only fans, so okay, okay, 36 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: well hey speaking speaking speaking of hustle culture, Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, 37 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: we're thrilled to have you here today to join us 38 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: to talk about only fans and not the Taliman unless 39 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: it circles around naturally. Back to that, I'm not I'm 40 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: open at all. But yeah, yeah, thank you, thank you 41 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: for joining us. So you're here today to talk to 42 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: us about what is going on at only Fans and 43 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: what that means for sex workers and content creators who 44 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: rely on the platform for income. UM. Could you maybe 45 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: start by telling us a little bit about yourself and 46 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: how you started using only Fans and what your background 47 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: is and everything. Yeah, totally, So I actually started. This 48 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: is so kind of random. But after the UM you know, 49 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: George Flott Floyd's terrible murder and the protests that came 50 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: out of that, I was like, oh, how can I 51 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: do something that's like bigger than donating my own thirty dollars? Right, 52 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: So I did one of those things where I was like, 53 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: I'll send you a you know, typic or whatever if 54 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: you send me a receipt. And I was like, really 55 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: strict about the receipts that I got. I'd be I'd 56 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: have to validate them. And then you know, I got 57 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: so many requests it was crazy. I was like, Wow, 58 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: sex really does sell. So I raised over thirty thousand 59 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: dollars for that. Yeah. It became like a little bit 60 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: of a full time job. And then and you know, 61 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: did it did that kind of longer than I was expecting, 62 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: and then I was like, hey, I really kind of 63 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: enjoy this. I'm in a I've been in a relationship 64 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: for now five years. It was four years a year 65 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: ago when I started my only fans account, And you know, 66 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: after a while, you're like, is this it is this 67 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: my whole sexuality? Like just this one guy? I don't know? So, 68 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: um yeah, I it was perfect for me. I love 69 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: exhibitionism and um yeah, that's kind of what my my 70 00:04:54,520 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: whole accounts like, kind of like French topless titties and fun. Um. So, 71 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 1: you initially were drawn to the platform as a way 72 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: to fundraise, but after a while it became clear that 73 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: this was a line of work that you enjoyed and 74 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 1: it felt empowering, and so you started to use it 75 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: for for yourself. Yeah. Well I was first doing that. 76 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: That initial like fundraising effort was like mostly happening in 77 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: my Twitter d M. Eventually I was like, let's move 78 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: this out and then I gave out like a percentage 79 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: at first, and then oh, I mean this is what 80 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: you The impetus was wonderful, but I think it's also 81 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: very cool that in doing that you realize that this 82 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: is a viable career choice for you, which I'm also 83 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: you are also a comedian and a podcaster, so this 84 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: is also just a new writer version of the world 85 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: that we live in of leveraging your different social media 86 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: platforms in different ways. Um, So, I guess now is 87 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: the time to talk about what's going on at Only Fans, 88 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: the changes that are going into effect. If you want 89 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: to talk to us a little bit about this, Yeah, totally. 90 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: So it's so funny because Only Fans just right before 91 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: this all went down, was like, we would never abandoned that, 92 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: you know, the people that brought us to the dance 93 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: basically and Ben it was. Yeah, it just came up fast, 94 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: I think and has been like a huge shock to 95 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: everyone I'm part of. Yeah, I think that that's what's 96 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: really important about that. I mean, there's lots of things 97 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: that are really important, but Only Fans exists and has gained, 98 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: you know, popularity because it has been used by sex 99 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: workers or content creators that you know, tap into that world. 100 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm not going to put a label 101 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: on how you would identify yourself, but there's lots of 102 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: different degrees of this kind of a work uh and 103 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: this is a safe space where people could step in 104 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: and take control of it um uh on their own terms. 105 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: And so it gained popularity for these types of creators. 106 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: And now that they are looking at investments and they 107 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: are receiving a lot of pressure from banks who do 108 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: not want to be associated with pornography or you know, 109 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: anything sex work related because of pressure from Christian groups 110 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: and other you know, conservative groups, etcetera. So all of 111 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: this pressure is coming down on to only fans and 112 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: they've announced that as of October one, they will not 113 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: be allowing people to upload posts display content that well, 114 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: I'll just start reading through promotes, advertisers, or refers to 115 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: sexually explicit conduct, which means acute, actual or simulated sexual intercourse, 116 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: including general genital, oral, genital, anal genital or oral anal 117 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: between persons of any sex, actual or simulated masturbation, any 118 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,239 Speaker 1: ambition of the anus or genitals of any person. Okay, 119 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: I'll go on. You know, lots of rules that are 120 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: coming down in different ways on this community. But they 121 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: are saying that nudity would still be allowed within reason. 122 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: But what is what are those boundaries? It's a gray 123 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: area that we already see happening on other you know, 124 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: sites on Instagram, on Facebook. You know, this has long 125 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: been a battle. Just like Yeah, I mean like a 126 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: couple of years ago, Tumbler did the exact same thing 127 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: where they just got rid of uh, sexually explicit content. 128 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: And does that is that a popular website? Now? Do 129 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:39,079 Speaker 1: people use that website? Suicidal? Yeah? Totally. Yeah, it's particularly 130 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: bizarre considering only fans specifically, was that's what this was, 131 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 1: That's why this took off. And as you're saying, like 132 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: the people who invited them to the dance and brought 133 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: them to the dance. Um, and just yeah, and if 134 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: you post anything like it's also unclear. I'm assuming there 135 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: might be more spe sophicity. But you know, if you 136 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: you're found in violation, it will lead to you being 137 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: permanently suspended, your earnings being revoked again. This is something 138 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: that people rely on. Um. It's also just a super bummer. 139 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: I have to say as someone who like I was 140 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: really excited about the cultural shift that I felt was 141 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: happening during the pandemic and it felt like and maybe 142 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 1: I'm just in an l A bubble, but it did 143 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: feel like there was this new wave of acceptance and 144 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: like understanding that of sex work being a real job 145 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: and like of it holding like a valuable place in 146 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: our society. And I just feel like, I think the 147 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: community is strong, Like I think that people have gotten 148 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: a lot out of this, and sex workers have found solidarity. 149 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: I know I'm part of this like comedy hose group 150 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: chat group where you know, like people give each other 151 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: advice and stuff, and I think people will some people, 152 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: privileged people will be able to like migrate. But it's 153 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: I think the reaction like, yes, it matters because this 154 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: is how people make a living, and you know, of 155 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: course it matters for that reason, but it's also like 156 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: kind of an emotional blow where you're like, oh, I 157 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: thought we were kind of like working past this, we 158 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: were taking steps forward. I I completely agree with you, uh, 159 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: And I think it's a really important point and a 160 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 1: part of this conversation because right I just briefly walked 161 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: through why these changes are happening. Okay, this is because 162 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: of cultural pressure from institutions that have been around for 163 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 1: a long time that are resistant to change, and of 164 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: stigmatized sex work, sex work which we all now know 165 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: and should First off, sex work which has been around 166 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: since the beginning. This isn't something new, This isn't phrase 167 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: a popular phrase about how it's the first job ever ever. 168 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: And there are all sorts of crucial things, real important 169 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: things that are life and death, uh that you know, 170 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: banking institutions and investors could actually care about making a 171 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: stink about and could actually apply pressure onto companies for 172 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: positive change, and this isn't one of them. And why 173 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: it's so disappointing exactly is because we feel like we're 174 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: finally at this point where we are having conversations about 175 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: sex and sexuality and recognizing the detrimental effects of repression, 176 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, within our economy, within our personal lives, within 177 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: our relationships, all of that. It feels like a really 178 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: important and good things stuff that we're being forward. But 179 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: at the same time, stuff like this happens. And I 180 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: would be remiss if I didn't also bring up fasta 181 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,319 Speaker 1: sesta um. If you guys remember from a couple of 182 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: years ago, Fast assessed to being the legislation that was 183 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: passed to shut down, um, you know, sex trafficking, specifically 184 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: child sex trafficking, and it mostly targeted back page like yeah, 185 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: like the classifieds of Craigslist and things like that, where uh, 186 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: because that's I mean, that's one of the other things 187 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: is like this this was a safe space for sex 188 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 1: workers to take control over their own job and their 189 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: own lives and not have to go. I mean there's 190 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: a cut that's taken because it's an which yeah, but uh, 191 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: at least but you know there there's always gonna be 192 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: space is created and like you're saying, like Backpage in 193 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: these places where um, there's at least a digital space 194 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: to uh safely meet people and vet people, um, and 195 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: taking that away seems damaging. Um, And uh, this is 196 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: just yeah, another sense of that um where it's created 197 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: for a purpose. And then just also only fans is 198 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: acting a little bit like they like, poor us, we 199 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: had no toys. It's just the banks, you know, YadA YadA. 200 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: And first of all, from my research, there's a couple 201 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,199 Speaker 1: of things. They could be their own payment processor. There 202 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: are other sites that are doing that, like fan Centro. 203 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: And then there's also this thing that's called a form 204 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: or UMT seven form. I think I'm saying that right, 205 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: but it's basically where um, you know, if if I 206 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:40,839 Speaker 1: had someone who was I was having sex with on 207 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: my only fans, I could have them like validate there 208 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: who they are and confirmed that this was consensual and 209 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: that they like wanted to be filmed for this. And 210 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: it's the same thing that like, yeah, anyway they could 211 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: fill that out. It wouldn't not be terribly hard from 212 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: my point of view for them to implement something like 213 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: that and then no problem. But you know, that's like 214 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: one of the major things that the payment process or 215 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 1: that I think it was MasterCard had an issue with 216 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: was like, oh, we couldn't we can't validate that these 217 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: people wanted to do this and that they're of legal age. 218 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: But it's like, okay, but do you know how to 219 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: solve that problem? You easily can y um, yeah, very 220 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: clearly excuses for this and even like like finding like 221 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: they're having trouble finding investors. Are you really know you're not. 222 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: There's just the different kinds of investors they want very 223 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: very successful app This is just cover for the fact 224 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: that they want to be seen as mainstream, even though 225 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: they are approaching it at least from where from the 226 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: the original trajectory. But they want you know, um more 227 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: mainstream users to be attracted crities and influence, right they 228 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: want to use it for like, yeah, do your posts 229 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: and like cameo stuff or whatever, there are there are 230 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: other places for that. Um and like also just the 231 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: idea of like we need to play, we need a place, 232 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: we need a place for celebrities to go to post 233 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: things they can't a going to pay them. How do 234 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: we know about them? Yeah, I I want to say 235 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: a couple more things about Foster as Sessa as a 236 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: part of this conversation, mostly in UM the impact it's 237 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: had as we're you know, just context for for some 238 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: of this. Like we talked about, you know, the the 239 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: original justification with sex trafficking, but it's not like they 240 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: don't understand how beneficial places like this are for the 241 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: rest of the community. But also the fact that, uh 242 00:15:54,360 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't really reduce sex trafficking at all. UM was 243 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: bound to just put it underground more right, you know what, 244 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: sex trafficking existed before we had the Internet. So it's 245 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: interesting how it continues to exist even if you drive 246 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: it underground and in fact make it harder to sniff 247 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: out together everything. So this is from uh why dot org, 248 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: a piece that they put out in the two years 249 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: since sex work Advocacy groups have reported a spike in 250 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: the number of missing and dead sex workers across the country. 251 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: People have reported that more folks are engaging in street 252 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: sex work after back Page got shut down. Albert said, 253 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: generally speaking, street sex work is more dangerous than the 254 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: sort of sex work that was engaged over the internet. Umm, 255 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: especially during a pandemic. So totally expecially during a pandemic. Yeah, 256 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: it says more than say foster as SESSA has affected 257 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:11,479 Speaker 1: their financial situation negatively. Um of Respondence reported an increase 258 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: in the exacerbation of mental health symptoms. And again there 259 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: has not been much, if any evidence that it has 260 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: reduced sex trafficking and has in fact greatly increase the 261 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: negative aspects on everybody else's life. I mean, what I 262 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: see is creators who are empowered to sell their own 263 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: whatever they're trying to sell on the site, and so 264 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: they're like cutting out the middleman, and I know, you know, 265 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: and so yeah, I just feel like this. I hate 266 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: that the sex trafficking conversation gets so much a part 267 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: of this. Yeah, And I'm sorry to bring it up now. 268 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: I only do because this has been something on my 269 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: mind and watching and as soon as this news broke 270 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: it is the first thing I thought was like, well, 271 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: time to go back and look at how that worked out. 272 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 1: And nobody's talking about it. We've there's granted there's been 273 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: a lot going on, but nobody's talking about this, and like, yeah, 274 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: you mentioned the pandemic. I think about I just think 275 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: about this effect on so many different ways on this community. Um, 276 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: so you've got another month on the platform before these 277 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: rules go into effect. Are you continuing for now to 278 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: keep going on and do your part? Like are there 279 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: has there been any sort of organizing or plan to 280 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: push back on this or have you heard about other 281 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: sites that are I know that there are other platforms emerging. 282 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: There doesn't seem to be like a super attractive alternative yet, 283 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: you know. And I mean for me, like, I'm not 284 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: super eager to move unless I think that the platform 285 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: is gonna, you know, be a good solution. Um I think. 286 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: I mean what I've seen in I'm scrolling through the 287 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: group now is like mostly people trying to figure it 288 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: out and like asking themselves these questions. It hasn't been 289 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 1: that much time, you know. I I don't know because 290 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: I'm sort of like in this gray area, like you mentioned, 291 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: the things that you can't do on the site, and 292 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: like what I do is in that kind of like 293 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: vague statement about like we will allow nudity, but you 294 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: know what does that mean? Um? So yeah, I don't know. 295 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: I'm personally I am like, maybe I can contintinue. Maybe 296 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: only fans is going to change something in the next month. 297 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: I don't know. There might there might be some learning 298 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: from the response, but I can't imagine that it's going 299 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: to be enough to protect the entire community that uses 300 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:59,479 Speaker 1: that place. UM uses the site still, it affects their 301 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: bottom line and like which by then it'll be well, 302 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: everyone will have left, so please come back. We changed 303 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: our mind. It's not gonna work. Well, there is a 304 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: little bit of that back pedaling already now. Of course, 305 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: classic UM workers, we love you, yeah, yeah, yeah, we 306 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 1: never acknowledged you before. But they're putting us like pandemic 307 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: commercials like today on this day, we want to honor 308 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 1: our sex workers. You brought us here. UM. Sex work 309 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: is real work. Like what are you doing? Are you? Um? Friends? 310 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,880 Speaker 1: If you connected with other have you connected with other 311 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 1: creators that use the site? Uh in different ways from yourself? 312 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 1: And if you heard any experiences for them or any 313 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: of the the struggles that they're going through because I 314 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: am at I know, I know that people depend on 315 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: this income and it's going to be a huge law. 316 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:04,439 Speaker 1: Like we we've it's huge. We you know, we did 317 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: a whole series on our podcast, um that was our 318 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: Comedians of Only Fans series, and you know those girls 319 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: made that we were interviewing, We're making a ton of money, 320 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: were like planning to buy houses, were like, you know, 321 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: making big decisions with this money because it was kind 322 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: of life changing and career altering and um. So you know, 323 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: those are the same creators that I'm seeing now, like 324 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: in our chat group and just you know, in conversation 325 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 1: just being like ah okay, so what do I do now? 326 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: You know, and some like one of my friends has kids. 327 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: It's like it doesn't just affect these people. It's like 328 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: the families and it's like a really big the implications 329 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: are huge, and so I don't know, it doesn't seem 330 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: to be like there's a solution yet, right, more freaked out. 331 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: We're like, you know, people like come together and like 332 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: I'm just like my mind's like do someone make a 333 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: new one. It's like and own it together and then 334 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: like being like being even more in charge of is 335 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: a good opportunity if someone is waiting in the wings, 336 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: it's developing. It's just about then there's the period of 337 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: time of building up a fan base or a base 338 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: on a new platform, because it's not like there's it's 339 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: easy to get well right, it would require like aside 340 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: from like make the app, but like you know, uh 341 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: big like larger creators and kind of creators, like coming 342 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: together and being like we're because if people moved somewhere, 343 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: the people subscribing will move there too. It's just you 344 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 1: guys need to unionize. I agree. I also just think 345 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: like I could migrate my I subscribers relatively easily. So 346 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 1: I do think if there is some sort of coordinated like, okay, 347 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: at least the girls in for instance, the comedy Hose group, 348 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: we're all gonna, you know, plan to migrate our subscribers together. 349 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: And then as long as the cut is fine, which 350 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 1: is a huge problem. Most of these places are even 351 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: higher they're taking and then it's like why am I 352 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: even doing this? You know, So somebody came out with 353 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: like another platform and oh this is another thing too. 354 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: Only fans hasn't been promoting I mean, they've been getting 355 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: a ton of free pr because of sex workers on 356 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: the platform, but they haven't been promoting the sex workers 357 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: on their platform to their subscribers. Who they promote to 358 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: their subscribers or is like a YouTuber like you know, 359 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: a chef or you know whatever. It's at this point, 360 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: they don't deserve you guys to stick arout. They need 361 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 1: to get their ship together or someone else please fill 362 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 1: this void. Yeah, I mean speaking of the Taliban, isn't 363 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: one of the problems that like a replacement to onely 364 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: fans would have the fact that, uh, these kind of 365 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 1: moral crusade groups keep going after payment processors and stuff. Absolutely, 366 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 1: that would That was so smooth, Robert, thank you. Wait 367 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: to see eamlessly bring it back to that. I'm I'm 368 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: a professional, even when I'm actively dying of a stomach virus. 369 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 1: You've done, You've done your job, Go throw up again. 370 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: I love that the pandemic has created a world where 371 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 1: you can show up to work sick. Actually, just vi 372 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: a zoo. I always showed up sick at work at 373 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: the old job. Whenever I would show up and be ill, 374 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: I would just walk to Cody's desk first, and you know, 375 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: get some fluids on some of his possessions, just wipe 376 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: stuff on other stuff. Yeah, exactly. That's that's that's why 377 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: we're such That's why we're such close friends. You share, 378 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: you share so much together. We share microbiomes exactly, Courtney. UM, 379 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: this has been really great chatting with you. Um. Can 380 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about your podcast as well? 381 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: You mentioned it your podcast rules. Thank you, Sophie. Yes, 382 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: thank you guys so much for having me on. I 383 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: have a podcast called Private Parts Unknown. It's about love 384 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 1: and sexuality around the world. Uh. Yeah, it's super cool. 385 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: We've been to Helsinki, We've been to Mexico City. We 386 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: went to Tokyo right before the pandemic. I know, it 387 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: was amazing. It was like, that's why I kind of 388 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: couldn't believe it when I came back in the bans happening. Um. 389 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: And then we just actually took a trip to Belize 390 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: and so we're going to start rolling out. How do 391 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: I get to be a party your show? I want 392 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: to travel places in record podcasts. Pretty cool premise. I 393 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: have to say, good job, love that, well well done. 394 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 1: We tried to do that, but we couldn't travel around them. Also, 395 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: like our destinations were gonna be like se pack destinations 396 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: depressing totally not different, like show leave, hang out and 397 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 1: hang out in new work and listen to Dan Crenshaw 398 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: talked to a bunch of like go up to four 399 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: years old, Cody. Um, can you tell our listeners also 400 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: where they can find you online? Yes, I am at 401 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: Courtney Kosak last named Ko c A K pretty much everywhere. 402 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,880 Speaker 1: And hey, if you want to sub to my only 403 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: fans Coco peep show, hop on that train for the 404 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: next month and then maybe further in the future. We'll 405 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: see what happens over the course of the next month, 406 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: but do it. But I got you for the next 407 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: month for sure. So all right, thank you, Courtney. Uh. 408 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,479 Speaker 1: And we will be back after this break for more 409 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: things together everything, so don't don't and we are back 410 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: from that break. Um. Robert is very sick him for 411 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,880 Speaker 1: being here. It's only appropriate on the Worst Year Ever 412 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: Part two. Um, But we wanted to hear the update 413 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: about what's going on in Portland. And I know you 414 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: guys talked about it a lot today already, but I 415 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: think our listeners are also interested than some stupid ship 416 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 1: happened in Portland if you want to. The episode that'll 417 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: be dropping on Wednesday, of it could Happen here was 418 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: largely about kind of our critiques of the of the 419 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: anti fascist response to this big Proud Boy rally, which 420 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 1: I think is valuable if you're trying to uh analyze 421 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: performance and how things could go better. But I think 422 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: today we'll kind of talk about on a national level, 423 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: what what's been happening in Portland's and kind of where 424 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: it fits in. So it's worth noting that the kind 425 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: of street clashes between anti fascists and you know, fascists 426 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,959 Speaker 1: started in Portland about kind of late two sixteen, um, 427 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: a good year or so with something going on in 428 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: Sorry there's no way to tell um, but it kicked 429 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: off about a year before things happened the United the 430 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: Right rally and Charlottesville. UM. And and while kind of 431 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: Charlottesville had it's it's horrible violent right wing protests, uh, 432 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: and you know, a couple other cities, if a like Kenosha, 433 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: I've had protests and counter protests that turned deadly. Um, 434 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: it's just kept happening in Portland. It happens all the time. 435 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: Happens every every week, really not every week, but like 436 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: every every year, like every like the summer is generally 437 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: like a right wing groups will come into town and fight, 438 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: UM and assault people and and take over chunks of 439 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: of neighborhoods and and shoot paintballs at bystanders and stuff. 440 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: Was what happened on the twenty two. The total some 441 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: cars assaulted, a bunch of people, just kind of ran 442 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: rough shot through a heavy like the most diverse neighborhood 443 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: in Portland, while the police did nothing. Um. And there's 444 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: so because kind of a lot of this started in Portland. 445 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: It's been kind of the where these different groups have 446 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: tested strategies before bringing them out to other parts of 447 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: the country. So um, they started it was where they 448 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: kind of started working with law enforcement and building bridges 449 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: of sympathy with local police. Um. And you saw that 450 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: kind of come to a head on the sixth. In 451 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: a lot of ways, it's where they you know, Salem, 452 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: an hour from Portland, was the first time one of 453 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: these right wing groups physically attempted to breach and take 454 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: over a capitol building, just like a week or so 455 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: ahead of January six UM. And you know, in recent 456 00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: weeks you've seen members of Proudy tried to embed with 457 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: uh kind of other religious right wing gatherings and kind 458 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: of try to camouflage you know, Proud Boys and members 459 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: of other extremist groups in in that sort of situation. 460 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: Um And so it behooves everyone to kind of pay 461 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: attention to what happens in Portland because um it, it 462 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: always happens here first, you know. Um, as as goes 463 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: por Portland's so goes the nation. And one of the 464 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: things we've seen this last week or so is, you know, 465 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: everyone knew this was going to be a horrible, violent time. 466 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: People started freaking out in Portland about it. A couple 467 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: of weeks ago. Anti fascists started rallying and putting together 468 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: a counter protest, and the mayor was finally forced to 469 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: issue a statement in which he suggested people choose love 470 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: and also said the police will take no action to 471 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: protect anybody. And they sure did. Um, they sure did not. 472 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: And so people were assaulted. Um And and this is 473 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: like I'm not actually I when I complained about the 474 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: police not doing anything, it is not to say that 475 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: I think the solution here is to send the police 476 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: in because when the police do come in, they primarily 477 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: attack the left wing side uh and and collaborate with 478 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: and work with right wing protesters. UM. Part of the 479 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: reason why this situation has gotten so bad in Portland 480 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: is going on five years now of the police using 481 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: kid gloves on these people while they assault folks. UM. 482 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: So it gives them all season they feel emboldened. Ye. Yeah, 483 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: and that's that's part of the problem. And the solution 484 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: to that isn't just give the cops more money, because 485 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: like one of the reasons they said they couldn't have 486 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: responded in Northeast Portland to this gigantic brawl where proud 487 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: boys are just shooting bystanders with paintball guns and macing 488 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: people and totaling cars was them that they they there 489 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: were so many calls that the police department, who was 490 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: all hands that day, was was totally overwhelmed, and it 491 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: was like, there's eight d Portland cops. They have two 492 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: thirty million dollars a year in budget. UM. They showed 493 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: up immediately when a right wing protester started firing on 494 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: a crowd UH downtown, which is, you know, an affluent 495 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: white part of town. But nothing happens when they when 496 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: there's this clash in in northeast in a in a 497 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: in the most diverse neighborhood in Portland. It just kind 498 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: of puts a lie at everything they've said. And I 499 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: think there's this one wonderful moment. We parked right outside 500 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: the side of the shooting and there was a big uh. 501 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: There was a sign um like a blocker so away 502 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: that we came upon that just said choose love. And 503 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: like in front of that sign where all the police 504 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: cars and stuff as they were like arresting this man 505 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 1: who had fired a handgun into a crowd, and somebody 506 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: posted on Twitter, don't choose love, choose level four, which 507 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: is like talking about body armor, um, which is, you know, 508 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: I think a reasonable statement like that, And it kind 509 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,719 Speaker 1: of gets to the heart of what what Portland's had 510 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: to do as a result of police failures and local 511 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: government failure failures to stop this ship, which is people 512 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: have had to come up with their own solution. Those 513 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: solutions are very um mixed uh and and certainly in 514 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: a lot of cases worthy of criticism. But ultimately people 515 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: have been having to work out kind of ad hawc 516 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: how to respond to this ship because there's a problem 517 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: these folks are coming into town and doing horrible violence. 518 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: Um And none of the people whose job it is 519 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: to protect citizens have been protecting citizens. Um. So citizens 520 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: have have had to try to develop their own measures, 521 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: and those have been a variety of things. But like, 522 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, what are you going 523 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: to do if your if your government says we're not 524 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: going to when these people come to town to beat 525 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: the ship out of you, Um, We're not going to 526 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: take any action. How's the mood on the ground there 527 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: amongst activists. I'm curious because I know, I mean, you've 528 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: been so deeply involved with all of these protests in 529 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: this whole movement in Portland, and I know that you 530 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: were feeling pretty down about things. Yeah, you know, there 531 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: was a mix. The good thing, a lot of folks 532 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: showed up. Because of so many folks showed up downtown, 533 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: they moved their rally to another part of town because 534 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 1: they were scared of all the people that showed up. 535 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: It's worth looking at photos of events from two thousand 536 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: and eighteen and seeing how much smaller the right wing 537 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,839 Speaker 1: gatherings are today. UM So, It's it's not to say 538 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: that there hasn't been an impact as a result of 539 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: the anti fascist organizing. But it's also there's, um, you know, 540 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 1: the response on the twenty two in particular, had some 541 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:45,320 Speaker 1: notable flaws, including kind of an a a disorganized response 542 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: to when ship cooked off in the northeast, where you 543 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: had these small groups of people showing up to confront 544 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: them and getting you know, beaten very badly. Um, you 545 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: didn't have kind of an effective strategy for dealing with 546 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: that second gathering. And you also had I think some 547 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: of this was just like Portland has had a quieter 548 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: summer than a lot of people expected, so when there 549 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: was a shooting downtown, folks got all amped up and 550 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 1: started building barricades and doing the things they do at protests. 551 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: Were like, all right, time to get ready to uh 552 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: defend our our ourselves here, and um, it was this. 553 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: You know, I don't have an issue with that so much, 554 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: but it was just a matter of like, as someone 555 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: who thinks that like a community response is necessary to 556 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: these events, Um, there's aspects of the community response that 557 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: we got on the twenty two that I thought were 558 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 1: unnecessary and even counterproductive in some ways. And I don't 559 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: want to we talk about that again on it could 560 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: happen here a lot. UM. But I think in general 561 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 1: one of the issues that UH was present on that 562 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,839 Speaker 1: day is that you have a lot of people, as 563 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: people have encountered more and more violence personally during these events, UM, 564 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: they've gotten kind of desensitized to it. And I think 565 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 1: you've seen a decline in sort of the effective other 566 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: strategies people used, UM, and folks kind of defaulting more 567 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 1: and more to like, well, it's time to build barricades 568 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: and pull out mace, UM. And it's it's you know, 569 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: some of it's just because I think people we're excited 570 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: to get a chance to be out in the streets 571 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: doing stuff. UM. I think some of it. A lot 572 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: of it was just people were really amped up from 573 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 1: the shooting. UM. And you know, there was a in 574 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: terms of like the the ineffective or the questionably effective stuff. 575 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: I saw. One thing that was very effective was the 576 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: the armed anti fascists who responded to the guy firing 577 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: a handgun into a crowd. Because there was a single 578 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,280 Speaker 1: dude firing a handgun into a crowd, UM, two people 579 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: reportedly drew guns to confront him. At least one of 580 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 1: them fired UM. They both took effective cover beforehand. Um. 581 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: They both aimed low enough that though their shots missed, 582 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: none of them hit windows. They were hitting the base, 583 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 1: like the foundation of a building, so not an area 584 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: in which they were likely to go through and hit 585 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: other people. UM. And they none of them dumped their magazines. 586 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: You know, that's a thing that often happens in stressful situations, 587 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 1: someone just fires the whole magazine very quickly. Um. They 588 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: were fairly controlled with the situation. And they were not 589 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: firing at a guy who was running away, not firing 590 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: at a guy they were They were firing at a 591 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: situation in which returning fire was really the only effective 592 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: response because he was shooting into a crowd. Um. And 593 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: so that part, that part was positive. Um. There were 594 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: just also things that I think we're flawed, including kind 595 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: of not having a comprehensive way of dealing with the 596 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: fact that they moved their gathering to the northeast. That 597 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: was just kind of more of an organizational flaw. And 598 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: then there's you also get individuals at these events who 599 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 1: are kind of more amped up and aggressive than others, 600 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,800 Speaker 1: who did some stuff that that's fucked up. And it 601 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: again it's this problem of yeah, that's going to be 602 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,240 Speaker 1: a problem with kind of a decentralized, horizontal movement aimed 603 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 1: at community defense. UM. And it's it's a thing that 604 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,759 Speaker 1: that movement has to come up with solutions for because 605 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,839 Speaker 1: you can't you can't have all of these different kind 606 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: of negative trends extending into forever at the same time. 607 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 1: I I don't agree with people who are like as 608 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: we just don't show up, because you know, we've seen 609 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles what happens when there aren't large counters 610 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 1: to these right wing events that they've been right wing 611 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: protesters has been showing up like outside of clinics, assaulting 612 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 1: cancer patients who are wearing masks, assaulting people outside of 613 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: the wee SPA, assaulting people outside of city hall, and um, 614 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: you know, assaulting press, assaulting and they they Proud Boys 615 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 1: yesterday or two days ago, assaulted like a bunch of 616 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: women in their fifties who showed up, no masks. They 617 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: weren't Antifa, they were just showing up with signs to 618 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: counter protests. The Proud Boys they got like macedon us 619 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: where right in front of the Proud Boy gathering outside. UM. 620 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,239 Speaker 1: So it's it's not I I don't agree with people 621 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,800 Speaker 1: who are like folks should stop rallying to defend the town. 622 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: But it is a matter of like, I think analysis 623 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: needs to be had about what's working and what's not, 624 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: because I think people people can get emotionally tied to 625 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: things that used to work or things that feel like 626 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: they should work. Um. And the right is constantly iterating 627 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,840 Speaker 1: and adapting their strategies, and that's part of what Portland 628 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: is for for them. It's where they try because they 629 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,359 Speaker 1: know the police aren't going to do anything. It's where 630 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,800 Speaker 1: they try a new strategies out and um, so it 631 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,879 Speaker 1: is very important to disrupt them in places like this. Um. 632 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,800 Speaker 1: And yeah, it's it's it's just a it's it's a 633 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 1: lot of responsibility for one town. Yeah. And it's you know, 634 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 1: everybody's again, everyone in Portland is a little bit, uh, 635 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: a little bit deranged from trauma. I include my Like, 636 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: everybody's responses are a little wonky at this point, from 637 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 1: the press down to the doubt, from the press and 638 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: the protesters down to like bystanders. Um because even like 639 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,760 Speaker 1: the random locals we were talking to had all seen 640 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: street fights or in some cases been in them, like 641 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,400 Speaker 1: they weren't there to protest they just lived in the 642 00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,800 Speaker 1: neighborhood and we're like, oh, yeah, well you know to 643 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,839 Speaker 1: years ago, I got massed at one of these things. 644 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: Trauma is the exact right word, yeah, for everybody living there, 645 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 1: and it in it ratchet, ratchets up the tensions. Well, 646 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: and that's a strain that you're carrying around and a 647 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 1: fear of when it's happening next or what's next, because 648 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,879 Speaker 1: it's going to happen again. They're there, they're doing shit. 649 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah. Um, yeah, it's hard to respond to it. 650 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: It sounds like a very difficult environment to be right now. Well, 651 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,320 Speaker 1: it is. It's a it's a it's a it's a 652 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 1: nationwide problem and I it is, but you are in uh, 653 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,439 Speaker 1: like a specific hotbed of it. But yes, it is. Yeah, 654 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: it's it's a nationwide problem, and an un disproportionate burden 655 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,360 Speaker 1: for kind of coming up with effective solutions on it 656 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: has been put on a bunch of like random people 657 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: in Portland, Oregon. Um. And so the fact that there's 658 00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: been a very mixed uh efficacy in the sponsors people 659 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 1: have come up with is kind of inevitable, you know, um, 660 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,320 Speaker 1: because it's it's a difficult it's a difficult thing to 661 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,799 Speaker 1: to know how to handle, and I don't. I don't 662 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: entirely and know like what the best solution is. This 663 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,239 Speaker 1: is kind of a new problem. And even if you 664 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,320 Speaker 1: look back at the last society to deal with this heavily, 665 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 1: like you look at um, you know, Vimar Germany as 666 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,720 Speaker 1: much as you know, I have respect for the anti 667 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: fascists in Germany during that period, and I think there's 668 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 1: the I think people need to learn from them, not 669 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: by just emulating them, because at the end of the day, Um, 670 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:38,279 Speaker 1: that ship didn't didn't do the trick, you know. Yeah, Um, 671 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:43,279 Speaker 1: so it's tough. Um, I don't know. That's that's all 672 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,480 Speaker 1: I gotta say. That was a good amount. Thank you. 673 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been able to tell that you're incredibly sick. Yeah, 674 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,080 Speaker 1: not at all. I'm horribly sick and about to run 675 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: down to my bathroom again. So you guys, sounds like 676 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 1: the episode out good place to face up, yuys. Check 677 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,400 Speaker 1: us out online at Worst Year Pod in Instagram and Twitter. 678 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 1: Pray for Robert, Pray for Robert. End of episode everything 679 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:25,239 Speaker 1: so everything so dull Again. I tried. Worst Year Ever 680 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts 681 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,240 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 682 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,240 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.