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Speaker 1: On this episode of Newts World, What is the recipe

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Speaker 1: for happiness? If you listen to liberal elites or red

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Speaker 1: pill influencers, you say it's making money, living for yourself

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Speaker 1: and staying single without kids, and you'd be wrong. Nothing

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Speaker 1: predicts happiness better than a good marriage. According to new

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Speaker 1: research by the University of Virginia sociologist Brad Wilcox, our

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Speaker 1: kids in communities not to mention, our civilization as a whole,

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Speaker 1: are much more likely to flourish when the state of

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Speaker 1: our unions are strong. Despite this, record number of Americans

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Speaker 1: are not succeeding at getting or staying married. In his

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Speaker 1: new book, Get Married, While Americans must defy the elites,

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Speaker 1: forge strong families, and save civilization, Brad Wilcox reveals the

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Speaker 1: anti family messages and policies coming out of Hollywood, Washington,

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Speaker 1: the media, at Kademia, and corporate America that have weakened marriage,

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Speaker 1: and he explains why America's most fundamental institution matters for

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Speaker 1: our civilization more than ever. I am really pleased to

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Speaker 1: welcome my guest, Brad Wilcox. He is a professor of

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Speaker 1: sociology the director of the National Marriage Project at the

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Speaker 1: University of Virginia, the Future of Freedom fellow at the

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Speaker 1: Institute for Family Studies and a non resident Senior Fellow

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Speaker 1: at the American Enterprise Institute. Brad, Welcome and thank you

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Speaker 1: for joining me on Newsworld. You know, Brad, I'm fascinated

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Speaker 1: with your National Marriage Project and the decision you made

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Speaker 1: to write what I think is a very important book.

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Speaker 1: How did this all start?

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Speaker 2: So this really began actually here at the University of Virginia.

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Speaker 2: I was raised by a single mom nude and was

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Speaker 2: thinking as a college student here at UVA kind of

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Speaker 2: how much dads mattered, and then began to realize that

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Speaker 2: marriage was the institution that connects men to their kids

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Speaker 2: on average, and that led me to pursue a PhD

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Speaker 2: in sociology at Princeton and then come back here to

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Speaker 2: teach at UVA and bring the National Marriage Project from

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Speaker 2: Rutgers where it was to the University of Virginia. And

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Speaker 2: since two thousand and nine we've been kind of producing

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Speaker 2: reports and other research, including this new book, Get Married,

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Speaker 2: on a regular basis. The reports have been called the

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Speaker 2: State of our Unions, and they've been kind of chronicling

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Speaker 2: the fortunes of marriage in America, and I started doing

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Speaker 2: this with an eye towards how marriage matters for children.

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Speaker 2: As I've been talking to students here at UVA, particularly

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Speaker 2: young women at the university, there's just kind of more

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Speaker 2: and more concern but I'm hearing from them about kind

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Speaker 2: of their dating options. They tend to outnumber men here

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Speaker 2: at UV Obviously, they also kind of would say that

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Speaker 2: a lot of the guys are not really interested in

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Speaker 2: commitment or don't seem to be kind of focused on

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Speaker 2: a long term relationship. So now I've been writing and

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Speaker 2: thinking a lot more about the importance of marriage for adults,

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Speaker 2: and this book is designed in part to kind of

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Speaker 2: give people a roadmap for kind of getting married and

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Speaker 2: also kind of a rationale for focusing a lot more

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Speaker 2: in their twenties and thirties on not only getting married,

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Speaker 2: but I'm forging a strong and stable marriage as well.

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Speaker 2: So that's sort of where I've gone with the National

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Speaker 2: Marriage Project here at the University of Virginia.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because young adults, those under the age of thirty,

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Speaker 1: feel higher rates of loneliness compared to any other generation.

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Speaker 1: February twenty twenty three, Gallipol found the seventeen percent of

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Speaker 1: Americans said they felt loneliness throughout most of the day.

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Speaker 1: For young Americans under the age of thirty, that was

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Speaker 1: twenty four percent, and those in lower income households earning

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Speaker 1: less than twenty four thousand dollars a year twenty seven

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Speaker 1: percent suffer higher levels of daily loneliness than older and

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Speaker 1: higher income counterparts. I'm very interested in the study that

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Speaker 1: was done by Signa or nearly half of all Americans

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Speaker 1: report feeling lonely sometimes are always, and that Gen Z

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Speaker 1: ages eighteen to twenty two is the loneliest generation with

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Speaker 1: seventy nine percent. Think about that, seventy nine percent, eight

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Speaker 1: out of every ten feeling lonely at some point.

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Speaker 2: What I'm projecting in the book is that at least

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Speaker 2: one in three young adults today, you know, folks in

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Speaker 2: their twenties like you were just talking about, will never marry.

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Speaker 2: So we're sort of seeing what I call the closing

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Speaker 2: of the American heart unfolding before us, where we're going

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Speaker 2: to see record levels of sort of permanent bachelors and

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Speaker 2: permanent bachelorettes. And then also I think record levels of

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Speaker 2: childlessness among the twenty something cohort today. So I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to do my part to kind of push back against

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Speaker 2: this closing of the American heart and kind of give

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Speaker 2: people some reasons to be more intentional about dating and

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Speaker 2: getting married, and then some advice about how to forge

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Speaker 2: strong and stable marriages for this twenty first century.

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Speaker 1: Well, what leads you to assume that there's a direct

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Speaker 1: correlation between loneliness and marriage.

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Speaker 2: So we do know, for instance, from work done by

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Speaker 2: Dan Cox, my colleague at AI, that single millennium women

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Speaker 2: are twice as like I said, they're often lonely compared

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Speaker 2: to their married peers. He's done other work too, just

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Speaker 2: kind of drawing an empirical connection between loneliness and marriage.

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Speaker 2: We know, too, for some new work done by the

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Speaker 2: Rise of Chicago economists that happiness in America has been

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Speaker 2: dropping since the early two thousands. And the number one

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Speaker 2: factor that this new study from Chicago attributes this to

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Speaker 2: is this closing of the American heart, this drop in marriage,

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Speaker 2: that's the biggest contributor to declines and happiness in America.

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Speaker 2: So obviously I kind of live and work in the

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Speaker 2: shadow of Thomas Jefferson. I mean literally, I kind of

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Speaker 2: live just sort of below his Monticello and he was

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Speaker 2: obviously famous for penning. And my other thing is the

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Speaker 2: Declaration of Independence talked about the pursuit of happiness, that

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Speaker 2: kind of classic American pursuit, and more and more Americans

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Speaker 2: need are having difficulty realizing that pursuit. In a large part,

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Speaker 2: I think because they're not able to get married in

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Speaker 2: the first place and then stay married in the second place.

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Speaker 1: This may be too pragmatic and therefore not necessarily accurate,

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Speaker 1: but it strikes me that there's a whole logical pattern.

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Speaker 1: If you're living alone and you go home to an

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Speaker 1: empty apartment or an empty house rather than being with somebody,

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Speaker 1: you almost inherently, I would think, would be more lonely.

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Speaker 1: What am I missing?

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Speaker 2: No, you're I think, kind of hitting manel right on

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Speaker 2: the head. And in the book, one of the things

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Speaker 2: that I talk about are the stories of young adults

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Speaker 2: in their mid thirties who are lonely. I talk about

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Speaker 2: a young man living the outer suburbs of Washington, d C.

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Speaker 2: A guy that I'll call Scott, both for the book

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Speaker 2: and for now. And here's a guy who's reasonably successful,

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Speaker 2: earning six figures, owns a home, he's a defense consultant,

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Speaker 2: college degree, all that kind of stuff, and so by

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Speaker 2: kind of the sterends of the culture, which kind of

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Speaker 2: thinks today that it's all about kind of the job

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Speaker 2: and the money and the degree. He should be doing fine,

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Speaker 2: but he's not. He says, you know, I've got degrees

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Speaker 2: on my wile, I've got accomplishments and certificates, but it

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean anything in the end. He told me, he says,

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Speaker 2: I have to get up every day and look in

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Speaker 2: the mirror and realize I'm alone. I have nobody. A

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Speaker 2: young man who's in his mid thirties and keenly feeling

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Speaker 2: the lack of a wife and kids. Or take Taylor,

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Speaker 2: who lives in the Rocky Mountain West, and she talks

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Speaker 2: about kind of prioritizing her career over dating, really with

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Speaker 2: a night towards marriage in her twenties, and now she's

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Speaker 2: in her mid thirties as well, and a career in

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Speaker 2: digital marketing hasn't kind of delivered as much meaning and

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Speaker 2: value to her as getting married and having kids. She

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Speaker 2: does babysit for her nieces and nephews, and she likes that,

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Speaker 2: but she told me, she says, the older I get,

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Speaker 2: I'm like you know, is there a chain ants that

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Speaker 2: I could have a family of my own right now,

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Speaker 2: do fun things with them, fingerpaint whatever. I don't know

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Speaker 2: what kids do. So these kind of story is going

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Speaker 2: to give you a sense of how obviously there are

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Speaker 2: some folks who are flourishing as singles, but we are

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Speaker 2: seeing that on a lot of these emotional indicators, from

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Speaker 2: loneliness to happiness to life satisfaction, newt that single Americans

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Speaker 2: today are more likely to be floundering, and even more

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Speaker 2: so today relative to say, fifteen years ago.

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Speaker 1: Is being lonely lead them to focus on trying to

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Speaker 1: find somebody or does it lead them to assume this

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Speaker 1: is an unavoidable fate.

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Speaker 2: I think in some cases it makes them more intentional

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Speaker 2: about dating or putting themselves into social situations, whether it's

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Speaker 2: you know, the office Christmas party or the local church

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Speaker 2: or volunteering at the local food bank if you want

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Speaker 2: to get married, those are the kinds of things that

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Speaker 2: I think would be helpful to do. But in other cases,

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Speaker 2: and I think Scott's story is kind of an example

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Speaker 2: of this. There seems to me there's kind of a

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Speaker 2: vicious cycle or once you kind of feel like marriage

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Speaker 2: is beyond your grasp, then you are more likely to

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Speaker 2: kind of potentially retreat from social life. In Scott's case,

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Speaker 2: actually religious life. He became less religious than he was

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Speaker 2: as a twenty something guy. So that's obviously the more

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Speaker 2: negative response to a situation like that.

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Speaker 1: I like your term, the closing of the American heart

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Speaker 1: is that yours.

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Speaker 2: It is Yep. It's one of the sort of phrases

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Speaker 2: that I talk about in the book.

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Speaker 1: I think in a sense you're suggesting that for a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who are lonely, they really find it

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Speaker 1: hard to open their heart to somebody else.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's correct. But I also think, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I know you've been talking a lot about sort of

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Speaker 2: technology and social media, and what I also think to

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Speaker 2: it's just the nature of the beast since twenty ten,

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Speaker 2: that screen time is competing with social time and dating

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Speaker 2: time and opportunity. So that's also part of challenge that's

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Speaker 2: facing us too.

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Speaker 1: It raises an interesting question. I think a generation ago,

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Speaker 1: I would have said that it was the pressure of

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Speaker 1: employment and focusing on your job and deciding that you

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Speaker 1: couldn't do both. The sort of the whole liberation of

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Speaker 1: women and Betty Free Dan and that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: But I run into young people who are so immersed

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Speaker 1: in their phone that they literally don't have very good

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Speaker 1: ability to talk to people. Correct. Yes, they'll text you

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Speaker 1: even if you're in the same room.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No. I was at a July fourth party or

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Speaker 2: in Charlottesville, Virginia, not too long ago, and there were

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Speaker 2: a bunch of teenagers sitting on the front lawn preparing

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Speaker 2: to watch the fireworks go off. And they were sitting

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Speaker 2: on the lawn. Some of them are talking, but many

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Speaker 2: of them are just texting. And as you were saying,

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Speaker 2: they were texting one another, which was just so shocking.

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Speaker 2: So I talked about this in terms of kind of

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Speaker 2: in the book as sort of our electronic opiates today,

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Speaker 2: and it's both you know, our phones, but also think

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Speaker 2: looking for teenage boys and young men and even middle

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Speaker 2: aged guys too. Nowadays it's the Xbox, it's gaming as

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Speaker 2: things that are drawing us away from in person connections.

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Speaker 1: You have loneliness, you have people who are not getting married.

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Speaker 1: But then you go a step further and you say

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Speaker 1: that marriage is the key to saving civilization. I mean

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Speaker 1: that's a pretty big claim. Why do you believe that, Well, I.

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Speaker 2: Think, as you probably know well and maybe more than others.

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Speaker 2: And there's obviously a lot of folks who think that

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Speaker 2: who is the next occupant of the White House is

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Speaker 2: the most important kind of issue facing our country. And

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Speaker 2: why I don't want to minimize the importance of the election.

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Speaker 2: I want to sort of stress that kind of who's

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Speaker 2: in our house, you know, who's in my kid's house,

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Speaker 2: you know, is often more important than who's in the

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Speaker 2: White House. Right. So the point there is that, you know,

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Speaker 2: as Jefferson said, he talked about life, liberty and as

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Speaker 2: I mentioned, the pursuit of happiness, and when it comes

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Speaker 2: to life, we're seeing We've got a new study coming

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Speaker 2: out these family studies from the Brooking scholar Jonathan Rothwell,

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Speaker 2: is that the number one predictor of deaths of despair

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Speaker 2: across America is marriage rates. So, especially when working class

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Speaker 2: men are not getting married, not staying married, much more

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Speaker 2: likely to succumb to alcoholism, drug abuse, or direct suicide.

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Speaker 2: When it comes to liberty, I think you can appreciate

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Speaker 2: that one of the biggest drivers of the growth in

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Speaker 2: the federal bureaucracy is the falling fortunes of marriage and

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Speaker 2: the stable two parent family. But then also kind we

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Speaker 2: know that the strongest predictor of the health of the

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Speaker 2: American dream is to share of two parent families in

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Speaker 2: a community. This is from work by Rosh Chatty at Harvard,

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Speaker 2: So kind of think about that is one expression of

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Speaker 2: positive liberty America. Can you make it in America? And

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Speaker 2: if you come from a neighborhood, a community where there

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Speaker 2: are lots of two parent families and you're a poor kid,

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Speaker 2: your odds of realizing that dream are much much higher.

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Speaker 2: But if you come from a neighborhood where's lots of

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Speaker 2: single parent families, they're much much lower. And then, as

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Speaker 2: I said before, the macro level, the biggest happiness factor

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Speaker 2: is marriage trends. And then for individuals, what my book

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Speaker 2: shows is the top predictor of happiness for both men

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Speaker 2: and women is not money, it's not their job, it's

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Speaker 2: not sexual frequency, it's the quality of their marriage. And

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Speaker 2: so happily married folks are just doing way better than

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Speaker 2: their fellow Americans who are not happily married and their

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Speaker 2: fellow Americans who are single.

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Speaker 1: How do you reverse this? Let me back up a

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Speaker 1: second and to say, I think this also fits into

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Speaker 1: the explosion of drug addiction, the explosion of homelessness, the

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Speaker 1: explosion of violence caused by people who are mentally ill,

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Speaker 1: because in fact, the system can't accommodate and help people

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Speaker 1: come to grips with life. And so you have a

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Speaker 1: substantial number of people who are basically damaged by the

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Speaker 1: act of living in isolation and the act of having

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Speaker 1: no support mechanisms. So how do you turn that around?

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Speaker 2: So I think obviously part of the subtitle is defy

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Speaker 2: the Elites. And when I first kind of released the

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Speaker 2: notice of the book, there are lots of smart journalists,

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Speaker 2: elite journalists who are pushing back and they're single. Elites

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Speaker 2: are doing great, Brad, what are you talking about the

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Speaker 2: by elites? And my point is that too many of

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Speaker 2: our elites talk left and walk right when it comes

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Speaker 2: to marriage and family. I have a piece in The

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Speaker 2: Atlantic coming on in this next week, and the idea

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Speaker 2: there is that they themselves are kind of living marriage

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Speaker 2: focused lives, family focused lives oftentimes, but they're presiding over

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Speaker 2: Hollywood enterprises, or legislation in Congress, or journalistic articles hearing

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Speaker 2: in mainstream outlets that are basically denigrating or devaluing marriage

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Speaker 2: or kind of minimizing its importance. In the book, I

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Speaker 2: talk about a piece that came out when I was

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Speaker 2: finishing up the book, was trending on Twitter from Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: that said that women who stay single and don't have

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Speaker 2: kids are getting richer, and it kind of basic presented

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Speaker 2: a story that suggested that marriage and motherhood were pathways

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Speaker 2: to emiseration and misrious. It's all the women who were

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Speaker 2: kind of profiled, who were single and childless. We're doing wonderfully,

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Speaker 2: and we're now actually kind of getting this message too

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Speaker 2: from the online right people like entertain as well. So

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Speaker 2: I think part of the challenge is to kind of

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Speaker 2: encourage our elites broadly to find, whether it's in the

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Speaker 2: c suite or up on Capitol Hill, to do a

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Speaker 2: better job of passing legislation, running stories, having scripts and

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Speaker 2: movies that paint not a kind of rose colored view

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Speaker 2: of marriage and family new, but one that's actually truthful.

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Speaker 2: I think that would be helpful in terms of just

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Speaker 2: changing the culture. On the policy front, I think tackling

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Speaker 2: the marriage penalty embedded in a lot of our means

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Speaker 2: tested programs and policies would help working class families who

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Speaker 2: often face pretty big penalties and things like medicaid from

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Speaker 2: getting married. When it comes to our churches, having more ministries,

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Speaker 2: like there's a mystry called Comunio which is serving Catholic

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Speaker 2: and Protestant churches across the US. Upping their game on

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Speaker 2: the marriage front, I think would be a helpful thing.

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Speaker 1: And then I think.

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Speaker 2: Frankly trying to figure out ways to help families, both

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Speaker 2: with legislation on Capitol Hill, but also with kind of

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Speaker 2: just advice about ways to kind of tame the technological

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Speaker 2: beast and to kind of help families have both parents

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Speaker 2: and teens kind of put their phones in the kitchen corner,

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Speaker 2: you know, when they come home, and leave them there

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Speaker 2: for the duration of most of their evening or weekend.

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Speaker 2: There's more that I say in the book. We just

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Speaker 2: have to be I think more intentional on number of friends,

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Speaker 2: the cultural front, the policy front, the religious front, and

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Speaker 2: then to what we're doing in our homes to kind

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Speaker 2: of build a culture that's more family friendly.

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Speaker 1: And you make a point that actually ethnicity is the

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Speaker 1: largest single predictor of marriage rates. Can you expand on that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So one of the things that I did was

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Speaker 2: kind of talk about there's a lot of bad news

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Speaker 2: to discuss when it comes to marriage and family America today,

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Speaker 2: but there's good news as well. And one piece of

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Speaker 2: the good news in the book is there are four

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Speaker 2: groups of Americans who are flourishing relatively speaking when it

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Speaker 2: comes to marriage. One is Asian Americans, as you just mentioned,

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Speaker 2: One is religious Americans, another is what I call strivers

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Speaker 2: Americans who are college educative, kind of more long term orientation,

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Speaker 2: professional orientation that's financially bet avential for families. And then

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Speaker 2: conservative Americans are the fourth group that are more likely

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Speaker 2: to be doing well on the marriage front. And when

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Speaker 2: it comes to that first group, Asian Americans, we see

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Speaker 2: that they're more likely to be getting married in the

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Speaker 2: first place and staying married in the second place. In fact,

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Speaker 2: there's no group of Americans new who are more likely

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Speaker 2: to be both married and stably married than Indian Americans,

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Speaker 2: especially immigrants directly from India. So it kind of just

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Speaker 2: gives you some sense that what we're talking about is

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Speaker 2: not just about money and class. It's also about culture.

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Speaker 2: And I think we can all appreciate the ways in

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Speaker 2: which the Indian culture has been for a very long

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Speaker 2: time pretty marriage minded.

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Speaker 1: Do you see any of that spreading. I mean, is

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Speaker 1: it literally limited to those ethnic pockets.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think we have seen just in the elite

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Speaker 2: circles that I track. There was a book published this

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Speaker 2: fall called The Two Parent Privilege by Melissa Kearney, an

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Speaker 2: economist at Brookings of all places, and very positive kind

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Speaker 2: of take on marriage and kids. Got a lot of

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Speaker 2: good attention, So I think that's a helpful sign. My

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Speaker 2: book obviously advances the conversation too in the media and

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Speaker 2: other venues, but beyond Asian Americans, Yeah, I do think

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Speaker 2: we see certainly in the religious world there are new

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Speaker 2: ministries like the one I've just mentioned, Comenial that's serving

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Speaker 2: a lot of churches across the US, and my own

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Speaker 2: parish here in Charlottesville, Virginia. There's been an uptick in

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Speaker 2: young marriages from Catholic Who's that's the Catholic student group

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Speaker 2: at the University of Virginia. And I've never seen a

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Speaker 2: group of Catholic students at EVA, and I've been in

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Speaker 2: touch with them for the last twenty years who've been

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Speaker 2: so kind of focused on dating and marriage, you know,

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Speaker 2: recognizing that the broader culture is having a lot of difficulty.

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Speaker 2: So there are some I think what we might call

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Speaker 2: points of light on the horizon. But I also want

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Speaker 2: to be honest with you, nid, I think that sort

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Speaker 2: of for the broader society, the trends are not going

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Speaker 2: to be good, at least for the short term, and

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Speaker 2: so we've got to be more intentional about giving people

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Speaker 2: kind of a roadmap that will kind of bring them

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Speaker 2: to higher ground and avoid what I would sorter of

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Speaker 2: view as a kind of demographic tsunami that's coming our

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Speaker 2: way since across from East Asia, across the Pacific and

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Speaker 2: going to be hitting our shores in the coming years.

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Speaker 1: I'll mentioned a while ago that there are legal consequences

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Speaker 1: to getting married that are negative that frankly I thought

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Speaker 1: we had taken out of the system. Do you know,

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Speaker 1: has anybody put together if a new administration came in

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Speaker 1: and they wanted to be strongly pro marriage, has anybody

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Speaker 1: put together a list of the things that should be

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Speaker 1: repealed or the things that should be changed.

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Speaker 2: So I have a chapter with an AI volume that's

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Speaker 2: going to do some of that. But yeah, I've got

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Speaker 2: some ideas about how, for instance, to tackle the marriage

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Speaker 2: panel in our means tested programs, Things like Medicaid would

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Speaker 2: be one example. They're income tax, but it would be

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Speaker 2: a different example. The food stamps would be a third example.

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Speaker 2: I also think it'd be helpful too, both at the

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Speaker 2: federal and the state and local levels, to talk about

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Speaker 2: what's called the success sequence, which means is I think

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Speaker 2: you probably know encouraging young adults to get at least

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Speaker 2: a high school degree, work full time in their twenties,

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Speaker 2: and get married before having children. If you kind of

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Speaker 2: follow those three steps, your odds are being poor just

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Speaker 2: three percent, and your odds of being in the middle

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Speaker 2: class or higher eighty six percent as you head into

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Speaker 2: your late twenties and thirties. I think too many of

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Speaker 2: you young adults don't appreciate how much not just actually marriage,

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Speaker 2: but even full time work we're seeing. I think troublingly,

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Speaker 2: a large number of young men, you know, especially young

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Speaker 2: men who are not that kind of striver or that

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Speaker 2: college track, are not working full time. They're kind of

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Speaker 2: moving in and out of different gigs, whether it's driving

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Speaker 2: uber or working at a fast food restaurant. Also saying

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Speaker 2: visa via the whole Mayor and Love issue, that a

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Speaker 2: lot of working class couples are couples now where she

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Speaker 2: works more hours than he does, makes more money than

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Speaker 2: he does, and she also does more of the housework

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Speaker 2: and if they've got kids, childcare, and that's obviously a

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Speaker 2: recipe for relationship disaster. So we've got to be thinking

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Speaker 2: about that issue as well, encouraging young adults to appreciate

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Speaker 2: the value of marriage and work, especially for young men.

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Speaker 1: You also talk a little bit about the concept which

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Speaker 1: I frankly had not heard of, about the rise of

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Speaker 1: the I mean, I may say this wrong, but the

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Speaker 1: trad wife social media. What is that all about. That's

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Speaker 1: totally new to me until I saw your book.

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Speaker 2: So there is kind of, like, as we can I appreciate,

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Speaker 2: there's a way in which social media kind of balkanizes.

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Speaker 2: It creates all these different subcultures across the spectrum, and

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Speaker 2: one of them is kind of the tradwife subculture. It's

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Speaker 2: kind of, you know, basically urging women to embrace marriage,

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Speaker 2: motherhood and traditional roles and kind of celebrating domesticity, femininity,

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Speaker 2: beautiful dresses, beautiful kitchens and homes and meals and all that,

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Speaker 2: caring for kids. And we've seen some of that, particularly

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Speaker 2: in the Mormon community, in the last decade, but and

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Speaker 2: it's now kind of spread to many other parts of

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Speaker 2: the internet as well, So that's certainly part of what

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Speaker 2: we're seeing now. But when it comes to kind of

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Speaker 2: how does this sort of play out for ordinary couples,

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Speaker 2: I've got a kind of somewhat of a complicated message

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Speaker 2: in the book in terms of gender. So what I

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Speaker 2: see is that for women, for instance, having a husband

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Speaker 2: who had embody some classic masculine traits like protectiveness and

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Speaker 2: being a good provider and being even physically strong, these

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Speaker 2: are all things that women across the spectrum tend to

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Speaker 2: appreciate in men. But when it comes to kind of

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Speaker 2: how you divide work in family, not seeing a huge

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Speaker 2: connection for kind of the average woman to her happiness.

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Speaker 2: So I kind of bundless together and knew as a

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Speaker 2: kind of a neo traditional model is sort of on

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Speaker 2: average often attractive for today's married women, especially mary moms,

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Speaker 2: and that traditional pieces are still looking for guys who

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Speaker 2: are reliable providers and are protective of them in a

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Speaker 2: variety of contexts socially, physically, et cetera. But they're also

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Speaker 2: looking for guys who are engaged with the kids across

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Speaker 2: the ideological spectrum. Engaged dads are definitely appreciated by women,

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Speaker 2: but how you kind of divide up housework and paid

435
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 2: work is pretty flexible today in terms of how that

436
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 2: connects up to merrital happiness. For today's women, there are.

437
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: A variety of ways to be positive in a long

438
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 1: term relationship. Is that part of your message when.

439
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 2: It comes to the division of housework and paid work.

440
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 2: What I'm basically saying here is that there's no one

441
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 2: model today that correlates consistently with a better outcome, and

442
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 2: that would be I think kind of maybe good news

443
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 2: for folks in the center of these sort of gender wars.

444
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 2: I think where my conclusions would be more traditional is

445
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 2: just sort of saying I think there are important ways

446
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 2: in which women are still looking women on the left

447
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 2: implicitly for them, oftentimes for guys who are protective, ambitious, hardworking,

448
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 2: and are employed on a full time basis. So those

449
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 2: kinds of traits and characteristics are still very much appealing

450
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 2: to women, even on the left to think of themselves

451
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 2: as either a galitarian or even say things like gender

452
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 2: is fluid. But when you kind of push beneath to

453
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 2: like what makes you happy, you know then they'll talk

454
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 2: about the way in which you know their husband is

455
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 2: hardworking or protective or ambitious, even if they're kind of

456
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 2: ideologically on the left.

457
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 1: There's this conflict. Though I listened to some of the

458
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,959
Speaker 1: day really surprised me who I've always thought it has

459
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: been pretty liberal, who said, we've had a generation of

460
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: telling young males that their inferior, that they are the problem,

461
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: et cetera. And he said, you know, you do that

462
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: long enough, and you really do have an extraordinary withdrawal

463
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: and an unwillingness to compete. And this goes back to

464
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 1: books that were written twenty years ago about undermine the

465
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 1: whole concept of masculinity. So you didn't just have a

466
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: pro feminism, but you had an anti male kind of

467
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: part to that. To what extent is that also combined,

468
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: I think with the ability to amuse yourself with computerized

469
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 1: games so that you literally on a relatively low income,

470
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 1: can occupy yourself and feel like you're busy having fun.

471
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: You don't need to go out and do all these things.

472
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,479
Speaker 2: I talk about a male malaise, you know, for younger

473
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 2: men and teenage boys, and I think it's probably about

474
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 2: these electronic opiates that give, you know, teenage boys in

475
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 2: the similar crop right of being that white knight riding

476
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,160
Speaker 2: on your horse, but just doing it all on the xbox.

477
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 2: So that's part of the problem. And I think the

478
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: other part of the problem is that we're not giving

479
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 2: young men a constructive model of masculinity, and so they

480
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 2: gravitate to people like Andrew Tate who kind of give

481
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 2: them a more misogynistic model of masculinity. And if we

482
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 2: where as a culture giving young men a distinctive model

483
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 2: of masculinity that they could buy into and identify with

484
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 2: and guide their transition into adulthood, we'd be doing a

485
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 2: lot better by them, but also by dating and marriage

486
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 2: as well.

487
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 1: You describe the degree to which very often the next

488
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 1: generation can't sustain the economic success, particularly if they come

489
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: out of broken homes or situations where they don't end

490
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: up getting married. And I was struck because I just

491
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: saw a study a couple days ago that the five

492
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: wealthiest families in Florence in fourteen seventy one are the

493
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: five wealthiest families in Florence because they have very strong

494
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: family ties, They have a very strong sense of generational obligation.

495
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: Thomas Mann wrote about the Budenbrook cycle where you go

496
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: from shurt sleeves to wealth to shirt sleeves in three generations. Well,

497
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: apparently the medici and others have figured out they don't

498
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 1: want to do that, and they somehow instill in their

499
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: children the obligation that you are going to manage this,

500
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: you are going to maintain this. And it's worked now

501
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: for five hundred years.

502
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, there have been a number of studies in recent years,

503
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: both in England and in Italy kind of in this spirit,

504
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 2: and it does, I think, remind us that there is

505
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 2: an intergenerational feature to family life that Americans can lose

506
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 2: sight of. Kind of tending the fires, you know, on

507
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 2: the home front can be good for not just you

508
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 2: and your kids, but even your sense your grandkids. And

509
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 2: by contrast, if things are not going well in one generation,

510
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 2: their offer and not going to go well in not

511
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 2: just the next generation, but the third generation and beyond.

512
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,239
Speaker 1: You make that point from a different angle when you

513
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: point out that males who come from non intact families

514
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: are dramatically more likely to end up in prison. Can

515
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: you comment on the degree to which growing up in

516
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: a sort of chaotic environment contributes to being unable to

517
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: function within a normal framework.

518
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the most striking findings in the book

519
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 2: from my perspective as a scholar and as a social scientist,

520
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 2: it's just the finding from the NLS Y ninety seven,

521
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 2: is big federally funded survey that tracks people over time,

522
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 2: is that boys today who were raised in any kind

523
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 2: of non intac family basically about twice as likely to

524
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 2: land in prison or in jail than their male peers

525
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 2: who are from intact, married families. And more particularly, that

526
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 2: young men are being raised in non intac families are

527
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 2: more likely to spend some time in prison or in

528
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 2: jail than they are to be graduating from college. So

529
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 2: they're going to get you to give you two sets

530
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 2: of stats here on this. So young men from intact

531
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 2: families with mom and dad in the household, thirty eight

532
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 2: percent of them graduate from college. Only nine percent of

533
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: them would spend some time in Jailberson. You know, it

534
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 2: could be a night in the cling for a fight

535
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 2: at the bar, right, but some prisoner jail. By contrast,

536
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 2: boys being raised by single moms nineteen percent of them

537
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 2: will spend some time in prison or jail by the

538
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 2: time they turn thirty. Only fifteen percent of them will

539
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 2: graduate from college today, So there's just no question when

540
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 2: it comes to school and problems with the law. Young

541
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 2: men are more likely to have a pretty negative outcome

542
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 2: when they don't have their married parents. Now, for girls,

543
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 2: the story there is more about kind of the emotional piece.

544
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: We see a lot higher lovels of depression sadness for

545
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: girls and non attack families, and that's kind of where

546
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 2: their kind of family chaos is expressed. And there's a

547
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 2: new book coming a week after my book by Rob

548
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: Henderson that kind of chronicles he was raised kind of

549
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 2: a single mom and then foster care and then adoption

550
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 2: and his adoptive parents got divorced, and his book coming

551
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 2: out a week after Mind kind of gives you more

552
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 2: of a personal story about how his fortunes in school

553
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: and life and flowed with the stability of his family background.

554
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: But as you look at all this, are you optimistic

555
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: or pessimistic that we can turn this around?

556
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 2: I think short term I'm pretty pessimistic. I think that

557
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 2: the trends are pretty strong right now towards less marriage,

558
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 2: less stating fewer kids. I think we're going to see

559
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,239
Speaker 2: a record number of young adults today who are going

560
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 2: to end up kindless, what they call bare branches in China,

561
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 2: without the benefit of a spouse and children to sustain them,

562
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 2: especially in midlife and later life, financially, health wise, and

563
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 2: emotionally too. But I do obviously also show groups that

564
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 2: are managing to make it marriage wise new and I

565
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: do see efforts in civil society and in my own

566
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 2: world where people are forging strong families. And I give

567
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,239
Speaker 2: people some advice about how you can yourself kind of

568
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 2: beat these larger trends. So I think that's sort of

569
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 2: the helpful note in my book is kind of giving

570
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 2: people a roadmap for how they themselves can forge a

571
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: strong and stable marriage today.

572
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: I'm really curious how do young people today get marriage advice,

573
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: particularly if they come out of a non traditional background

574
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: and don't have immediate access to in their own family.

575
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think a lot of what we're seeing

576
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 2: is that people are turning to popular shows like Bachelor

577
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 2: and Bachelorett, and they're turning obviously the Instagram and TikTok too,

578
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 2: and kind of taking cues from influencers of one stripe

579
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 2: or another. And I think the challenge with that kind

580
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 2: of messaging oftentimes is it's more superficial in terms of

581
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: the kind of things that are being stressed, in terms

582
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,719
Speaker 2: of maybe it's looks or humor or charm or money

583
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 2: as sort of the markers of a good dating partner

584
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 2: and even a good spouse down the road. I think

585
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 2: also you can see two in the pop culture and

586
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: over the romanticized understanding of love and marriage. And I've

587
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 2: got a piece in the Wall State draw coming out

588
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 2: on what I call the soulmate myth and begin with

589
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift's song Lover, which again kind of gives us

590
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 2: a very romantic view about marriage. And I think what

591
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,959
Speaker 2: the challenge we face is kind of letting our young

592
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 2: adults know that, yes, romance is important. Yes looks and

593
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 2: money are things worth kind of keeping in mind, but

594
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 2: when it comes to forging a strong and stable marriage,

595
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 2: you really need to look for qualities of character, things

596
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 2: like loyalty, fortitude, fidelity. These are the kinds of virtues.

597
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 2: It would be part and parcel of a good long

598
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: term relationship, a good marriage, and would be the foundation

599
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 2: for a strong family life as well. I think that's

600
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 2: the challenge. And to your point earlier, I think having

601
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 2: people who are online kind of giving this message in

602
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: accessible and engaging ways is part of what's needed to

603
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 2: to kind of counter what people might otherwise encounter on

604
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: their screens.

605
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: So, given everything we've learned about young people today and

606
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: the dysfunctionalities and the lack of accurate information, what advice

607
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: would you have for somebody who's looking for a spouse.

608
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 2: So one of the things that my calling, doctor Wenny Wang,

609
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 2: has found in her research is that couples who meet

610
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 2: in some kind of religious event or activity, or meet

611
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 2: in college in person are more likely to be flourishing,

612
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 2: and the couples who meet online or in bars and

613
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 2: taverns are the least likely to be flourishing in their marriages. Now,

614
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 2: it's just a correlation, but it's worth kind of thinking about.

615
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: I think the point I'm getting at is it's important

616
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 2: trying to sort of maximize your time as a young

617
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 2: adult doing things in person, whether it's socially and after

618
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 2: work if you're religious, you know, in some kind of

619
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: church or synagogue, college, and not listening to parents and

620
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,479
Speaker 2: peers and professors who would tell you too to kind

621
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 2: of push all that off unto your late twenties or

622
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 2: early thirties, because what we see is the couples who

623
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 2: get married kind of in their twenties roughly defined mid

624
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: twenties are more likely to be happily married, and I

625
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 2: think today more likely to avoid ending up kinless. So

626
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 2: I would just be intentional in part about using opportunities

627
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 2: in your early twenties and mid twenties, whether it's in

628
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 2: college or in the workplace, to meet people in person

629
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 2: and not just to rely upon their smartphone and dating

630
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 2: apps as well. I would also encourage men to be

631
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: more intentional and more courageous in terms of asking when

632
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 2: in their circles out and then encourage women to be

633
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: more kind of flexible and kind of giving the guys

634
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 2: a chance, you know, maybe a second date, even if

635
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,479
Speaker 2: you're necessarily convinced in the first date. I know plenty

636
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 2: of people, including myself, who kind of had to really

637
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 2: woo someone over a period of time to kind of

638
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 2: seal the deal. My wife and I dated for on

639
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 2: and off for about three years before we got married

640
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:21,959
Speaker 2: at age twenty four, and we've been married now twenty

641
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 2: eight years. So that's also a piece of advice that

642
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 2: I would give them. And finally, again I would address

643
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 2: the importance of looking for character and shared values as

644
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: really crucial foundations for a strong marriage, more than whether

645
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: they kind of meet all of your criteria for the

646
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 2: perfect soulmate. I think character is king, and you've got

647
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 2: to look for things that would make your spouse down

648
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 2: the road a good wife and mother and a good

649
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 2: husband and father.

650
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:54,479
Speaker 1: I really appreciate the creativity and the determination that you've

651
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: shown in the work you're doing, and I want to

652
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: encourage you to continue. Your point's not true. This is,

653
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Speaker 1: in fact, at the heart of civilization. I had a

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Speaker 1: great deal of our current collapse in terms of our

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Speaker 1: cities and in terms of crime and drug addiction and

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00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: suicide relates back directly to the challenge of loneliness and

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00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: the challenge of a society which has broken down what

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Speaker 1: had been historically for virtually all civilizations, the central building

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00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: block on which the civilization resides. So I think the

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Speaker 1: work you're doing is really really important.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you. I think we know that the state

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Speaker 2: of our union depends in important ways on the states

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Speaker 2: of our unions plural, so I think that's certainly a

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Speaker 2: key message this book is offering to the general public.

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Speaker 1: Well, I want to thank you for joining me. Your

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00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: new book is Get Married, Why Americans Must Defy the Elites,

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00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: Forge strong Families, and Save Civilization. I want to encourage

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00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: our listeners to get a copy. It's available to Amazon

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Speaker 1: and at bookstores everywhere, and the work you're doing at

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00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: the University of Virginia on the National Marriage Project can

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00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 1: be found at National Marriageproject dot org. Brad, thank you

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Speaker 1: very much for joining me.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, mister speaker.

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Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Brad Wilcox. You can get

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Speaker 1: a link to buy his new book, Get Married, Why

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Speaker 1: Americans Must Defy the Elites, Forge Strong Families, and Save

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Speaker 1: Civilization on our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld

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Speaker 1: is produced by Gingers three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive

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00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: producer is Guernsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The

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Speaker 1: artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special

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Speaker 1: thanks to the team at Ginger three sixty. If you've

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00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 1: been enjoying Nutsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast

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00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: and both rate us with five stars and give us

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Speaker 1: a review so others can learn what it's all about.

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Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my

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Speaker 1: three free weekly columns at gingerstreect dot com slash newsletter.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nick Gingrich. This is newswork.

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Speaker 2: M M m