Speaker 1: My name is Brian Whittle, and I was the boom
Speaker 1: operator and sometimes sound mixer and one time actor on
Speaker 1: the Office. Well, hello everybody, and thank you for joining
Speaker 1: us once again here at the Office Deep Dive. As always,
Speaker 1: I am your host, Brian Baumgartner, this week's guest. This
Speaker 1: is this is cool, okay one. He's the greatest alright.
Speaker 1: In fact, he is so great that the writers on
Speaker 1: the Office actually named a character after him. Do you
Speaker 1: remember the boom operator in season nine, that guy, the
Speaker 1: one who almost broke up Jim and Pam. Yep, that's
Speaker 1: our guy. Well, that's our guy's name. Today's guest is
Speaker 1: Brian Whittle. Now. To be fair, although the real Brian
Speaker 1: was also the boom operator for the Office, he did
Speaker 1: anything but cause any workplace drama. No, Brian is a gem,
Speaker 1: and he's known as one of the best in the business.
Speaker 1: He did an impossible thing for many. He mastered the
Speaker 1: art of mockumentary sound, dealing with the long takes on
Speaker 1: the office, dodging crazy camera angles, and he participated in
Speaker 1: the many sound on sound off debates on set. Now,
Speaker 1: boom operators are known for their ability to soak up
Speaker 1: all of the stories remember they're hearing everything you guys,
Speaker 1: Brian is not one to disappoint today he is here
Speaker 1: to talk about the art of leaning into imperfection, Steve
Speaker 1: Carrell's Silent Airport goodbye, and well, of course, his notorious
Speaker 1: namesake on the show, Bryan Whittle. This really is a
Speaker 1: special one. I won't keep you waiting as our residents
Speaker 1: sound guy. Brian has done enough of that over the years,
Speaker 1: so please give a warm welcome to the incredible Brian Whittle.
Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and Squeak on
Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeaker cookie at every month left over from
Speaker 1: the nabb before. Hello, check, check check. How do I sound?
Speaker 1: Five four, three to one. You sound great and exactly
Speaker 1: the same as always, Brian. How are you good? Good?
Speaker 1: How are you doing? Brian? Oh my gosh, it's so
Speaker 1: good to see you. We spent a lot of time
Speaker 1: in Type quarters together. We really really did. How's everybody
Speaker 1: you're surviving? You're good? Healthy? Yeah, yeah, I'm doing really well.
Speaker 1: My kids they're right down the hall. They promised to
Speaker 1: be quiet. They understand the importance of sound. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: So things are going well, things really well. I'm so
Speaker 1: happy to talk to you. There's well, I mean, there
Speaker 1: was eventually a very important character on the Office named
Speaker 1: after you. We'll talk about that. How did you get
Speaker 1: into sound? What was your journey for for getting into sound?
Speaker 1: My journey for getting into sound was basically, well, I
Speaker 1: moved here with the idea that I think that a
Speaker 1: lot of people think that they're gonna be Steven Spielberg.
Speaker 1: But I was a little too irresponsible to follow that path,
Speaker 1: so I, uh so I ended up doing sound, which
Speaker 1: was actually still really awesome. And basically I came here.
Speaker 1: I had a friend named Jeff Haley, who was now
Speaker 1: a very famous steady cam operator who was doing sound,
Speaker 1: the person that I actually grew up with back in Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: and he was doing sound, so he helped me get
Speaker 1: into it. I got on this movie called Ed with
Speaker 1: Matt le Blanc from Friends and back in the mid nineties,
Speaker 1: and that movie was a non union movie that then
Speaker 1: struck and turned union, and so I got very lucky.
Speaker 1: I got in the union right away. Uh And then
Speaker 1: shortly after that I met Ben Patrick, who was Jeff's friend.
Speaker 1: He was just starting out to doing sound, but he
Speaker 1: was already a mixer and he uh, we did. We
Speaker 1: did a bunch of really low budget, really horrible, awful,
Speaker 1: hundred dollar a day, you know, crap movies for a
Speaker 1: couple of years. But I was already in the Union,
Speaker 1: and I just didn't know anybody. Uh in the age
Speaker 1: back then there was still a lot of non union
Speaker 1: movies you could do. Nowadays, that isn't the case anymore.
Speaker 1: But you know, I just made phone calls and met
Speaker 1: more people, and uh, eventually at a guy named Forest
Speaker 1: Williams who was doing a lot of spelling projects, and
Speaker 1: so I got on those and I basically did spelling
Speaker 1: shows Melrose Place nine O two and oh oh, not
Speaker 1: spelling bees. I didn't. Oh, just that guy, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: just him, And I did a bunch of his shows
Speaker 1: until about until basically up until I got on The Office,
Speaker 1: you know. And then from then on, I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: half hour comedy, it's the way to go. Did Ben
Speaker 1: Patrick bring you onto the Office? He did, he did,
Speaker 1: and uh not until the very beginning of the third season.
Speaker 1: He tried to during the second season. But during the
Speaker 1: second season, and you probably remember this, they didn't have
Speaker 1: a full order for the whole show. They would say
Speaker 1: like we're gonna do two episodes. Oh, we got three more, Oh,
Speaker 1: we got two more. And he kept kept calling me.
Speaker 1: He's like, come over, come over, come over, because they
Speaker 1: kept the boom operators kept quitting on the Office. This
Speaker 1: was so hard, you know, because you would do like
Speaker 1: already in fifty minute takes, that's that's a long time
Speaker 1: to put your arms up you or to be crammed
Speaker 1: in a corner, or to be you know, hiding under
Speaker 1: something or you know, contorting your body in these weird positions.
Speaker 1: But they just didn't have a fore order. But then
Speaker 1: when the third season came around, they had a foe order.
Speaker 1: They gave me a great offer, and The Office at
Speaker 1: the time was my favorite show. So to get a
Speaker 1: call to go work on your favorite show for a
Speaker 1: full season for a really good rate, I was like, hell, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm all my way. So you were a fan of
Speaker 1: the show, watched the first I watched it before I
Speaker 1: worked on it. Yeah, So him calling you were like,
Speaker 1: let's go. So what was it like showing up there?
Speaker 1: Then for the first time on a show that you're
Speaker 1: a fan of it. It sounds like you have done
Speaker 1: mostly dramas stuff before. You don't want to call spelling drama. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so nighttime so guys, which we're pouring as hell. Yeah
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. That was my main bread and butter up
Speaker 1: until then, which was still fun, but this I knew
Speaker 1: it was gonna be ay more fun. And also it
Speaker 1: was with Ben, who was one of my closest friends, right,
Speaker 1: so yeah, I remember, right, I was very excited, and
Speaker 1: uh it was gay. Witch Hunt was the first episode
Speaker 1: of season three, which to this day is probably my
Speaker 1: favorite episode. And it was incredible, you know, because you
Speaker 1: get to see It's like when you watch a show
Speaker 1: and you're a fan of it and then you go
Speaker 1: visit the set and you see the set and you
Speaker 1: see that that line, you know, between your experience of
Speaker 1: just being a fan and now suddenly you're like, you know,
Speaker 1: behind the curtain and seeing how it all gets put together.
Speaker 1: So it was great and uh, I was ecstatic to
Speaker 1: be there. So you you were hired at the beginning
Speaker 1: of season three, did you note anything right away about
Speaker 1: the set and how your job might be a little
Speaker 1: more challenging on this show than something before. No, I mean,
Speaker 1: the only thing I thought would be more challenging is
Speaker 1: just the way it was shot. You know, two handheld
Speaker 1: cameras and just with constant resetting of each scene that
Speaker 1: we're doing. We run through it, reset, run through it, reset.
Speaker 1: And if you remember, we shot on tape, you know,
Speaker 1: we had these Sony nine hundreds where you actually put
Speaker 1: like a videotape inside the thing, and I believe they
Speaker 1: were fifty four minutes long. So that was probably the
Speaker 1: scariest thing to me. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: we might roll for fifty four minutes. You know. It
Speaker 1: was like no longer on the sixth boom operator in
Speaker 1: two seasons. So I was like, hope, I can do
Speaker 1: this now, do you did you have to do anything
Speaker 1: like work out? Kind of? Yeah? I started like, do
Speaker 1: made me do it more with push ups and going
Speaker 1: to the gym, which I already did, but I just
Speaker 1: you know, kind of did it more. And I never
Speaker 1: thought of like my job as being something I had
Speaker 1: to keep in shape for it until I got to
Speaker 1: the office, you know. But the thing was, it was
Speaker 1: so much fun that you just didn't feel the pain
Speaker 1: until afterwards, you know. Right, So to tell people your
Speaker 1: job as the boom operator, talk people through what that
Speaker 1: would mean, Like we're in the conference room physically what
Speaker 1: described what what that would be like. The conference room
Speaker 1: is a unique situation which I'm sure everyone you've talked
Speaker 1: to so far has attested to. But basically Nick would
Speaker 1: be there too, Nick Carbone, who was the other boom
Speaker 1: operator and the person who put everybody's mics on, so
Speaker 1: he would generally get whoever is seated, you know, So
Speaker 1: we'd both be back on the right side wall and
Speaker 1: I would usually be and I'd be in the middle
Speaker 1: of the room along one of the windows, and I'd
Speaker 1: be reaching out for Steve usually or whoever was addressing
Speaker 1: the crowd, and I'd usually get him, and then whoever
Speaker 1: sat towards the front, which was usually Dwight, he sat
Speaker 1: over by the door kind of right, and whoever else
Speaker 1: would come in out of the door. So I would
Speaker 1: be reaching out and getting all those people, and then
Speaker 1: Nick would be back at the other other side. But
Speaker 1: I have to cram against the wall. Yeah, So he's
Speaker 1: showing me. So he's got both hands above his head.
Speaker 1: He is holding this mike, which is is not particularly heavy.
Speaker 1: It's made to try to be as light as possible.
Speaker 1: But most shows, you how about I don't know, forty
Speaker 1: five minutes of lighting set up and then you shoot
Speaker 1: for about ten minutes. And we always joked that our
Speaker 1: show was the reverse, right, They would set up for
Speaker 1: ten minutes, try not to make the lighting all that beautiful,
Speaker 1: and then we would shoot for forty five minutes. So you,
Speaker 1: over the course of the day are I don't know,
Speaker 1: twelve to fourteen times doing thirty five minute runs with
Speaker 1: both of your hands above your head. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: really challenging, to say the least. Um, what a lot
Speaker 1: of people have talked about is how confined the space
Speaker 1: is much more confined than a normal show. Obviously, on
Speaker 1: a lot of shows, their walls that you can move
Speaker 1: from our initial pilot show, which was a room that
Speaker 1: could not be moved because it was actually production officers.
Speaker 1: It was a real room. When we moved to the
Speaker 1: sound stage, it was completely reconstructed exactly the same way,
Speaker 1: except I think Greg allowed like eighteen inches in the
Speaker 1: conference room. It was like eighteen inches for someone to
Speaker 1: stand off to the side camera or Yeah, but we
Speaker 1: were all in there in a very small space, especially
Speaker 1: when we had fourteen, sixteen cast members or whatever in
Speaker 1: the room. The two of you, two cameras, I mean,
Speaker 1: very very confined space. Especially in that room, or if
Speaker 1: we had, say a lot of people in Steve's office
Speaker 1: for example, you know that would be even more confined.
Speaker 1: Or back in like a corner of the annex, or
Speaker 1: in the break room where sometimes I would have to
Speaker 1: lay up on top of those vending machines that are
Speaker 1: in it. Oh that's right there, scenes where I would
Speaker 1: lay up there and boom from up there from just
Speaker 1: laying on my side on like a ferny pad or something.
Speaker 1: Or I would at least be tucked in the corner
Speaker 1: standing on an apple box with that and it's full
Speaker 1: extension and I can't have no weight behind me to
Speaker 1: leverage or anything. So it's really you know, it's like
Speaker 1: tipping you over. Yeah. The other thing that it's become
Speaker 1: kind of my go to joke on set, the camera
Speaker 1: takes forever to get set the lighting, and anytime there's
Speaker 1: a lighting adjustment or like a camera adjustment, it's totally okay,
Speaker 1: it's totally appropriate. Everybody stops respectfully and they do their work.
Speaker 1: When something happens with sound to the end of the world,
Speaker 1: it's like immediately everyone gets so angry. Yeah, right, Like
Speaker 1: if you, oh, look, we need to make an adjustment
Speaker 1: on Steve's top atrocity. Every Ones like, oh, yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: I don't know where that came from or why it
Speaker 1: is that way, but it is that way. It's universal
Speaker 1: every set. It's universal across all shows of all time.
Speaker 1: How does that make you feel? Is it aggravating? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: it used to make me mad, you know, and used
Speaker 1: to make me, i don't know, hurt my feelings or whatever.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, hey, this is just as important as ever.
Speaker 1: We can't shoot unless we do this, so it's it's
Speaker 1: it's important. But nowadays it's just it's just funny, you know.
Speaker 1: And you know I've been doing this a long time,
Speaker 1: and so you just tell them, hey, look we gotta
Speaker 1: fix it. Do you want do you want the sound
Speaker 1: or not? You know? Well that, as you know, that
Speaker 1: has become my joke. Now it's set, which I just
Speaker 1: try to exaggerate it because it makes me laugh. I'll
Speaker 1: just go waiting on sound, waiting on sound. Everybody. Remember
Speaker 1: when we used to say, uh, you're getting carboned because
Speaker 1: of Nick, because you would have to come in and
Speaker 1: fix the people's mis and we'd be like, oh, we're
Speaker 1: getting car boned. Yes, we're getting carboned, and yeah, it
Speaker 1: always made him very nervous. He did not like that
Speaker 1: particular aspect of the job. I mean, in terms of
Speaker 1: the working environment. Being a fan of the show coming on,
Speaker 1: did you have any other impressions of I don't know,
Speaker 1: other people that you were working with, Greg or know
Speaker 1: the cast specifically. Oh yeah, Well, I mean there's a
Speaker 1: lot of things that were awesome about working on that show.
Speaker 1: And I mean it's hard to honestly talk about that
Speaker 1: show without getting emotional because it was such a incredible,
Speaker 1: just amazing experience. And I think one real big thing
Speaker 1: is that everybody who worked there was a fan of
Speaker 1: the show. Everybody who was there love to the show
Speaker 1: and cheered and rooted for the show and wanted it
Speaker 1: to be successful. And we all looked forward to Thursday,
Speaker 1: you know, at eight o'clock that's when it was on, right,
Speaker 1: eight o'clock back then when you watch TV when it
Speaker 1: was on, you know, everybody looked forward to it being on.
Speaker 1: And I can remember that website office tally right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So on Thursday nights at like five o'clock, it's eight
Speaker 1: o'clock back east, but we were all on set and
Speaker 1: we would all start checking our phones and going on
Speaker 1: because all those computers in the bullpen were real and
Speaker 1: you could go online, go to office tally and start
Speaker 1: seeing the comments from all the fans from all over
Speaker 1: the country. That was exciting, you know, to be part
Speaker 1: of something that that many people loved and and cheered for,
Speaker 1: you know, so that I'd never experienced anything like that
Speaker 1: on a show before, you know, where everybody there loved it,
Speaker 1: because usually half the crew hates it and half the
Speaker 1: crew is like, I'm gonna be here, it sucks. How
Speaker 1: long are we going to be here? I never felt
Speaker 1: like that on the office ever, no matter how long
Speaker 1: the day was, no matter if even if we were
Speaker 1: Remember towards the end, we were working on like Saturdays,
Speaker 1: and I think we worked on a Sunday, and I
Speaker 1: didn't care. It was so much fun that it just,
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't It didn't bother me at all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that is. I don't think you can overstate
Speaker 1: enough how special and also unique that was, because you know,
Speaker 1: I say the same thing and people always sort of
Speaker 1: laugh when I say I'm a fan of the show
Speaker 1: like it regardless of me or my role or any
Speaker 1: of that. I shoot plenty of stuff that I don't
Speaker 1: ever watch. And it's not because it's bad or because
Speaker 1: I don't support it, or it's just I always feels
Speaker 1: like weird to go back and watch because there's nothing
Speaker 1: I can do. The Office was different because just I
Speaker 1: was a fan of the show. It was like, you know,
Speaker 1: even though I was there from the beginning, I just
Speaker 1: I just love the show. And having the crew also
Speaker 1: believe so strongly in what we were doing, Um, I
Speaker 1: think made a huge difference. Yeah, no, totally, it does.
Speaker 1: It makes a huge difference. And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of that came from Greg, because you know, Greg really
Speaker 1: embraced the crew and really appreciated them and saw them
Speaker 1: as a humongous part. I mean he let people go
Speaker 1: to the table read. You know, I can remember going
Speaker 1: to the table reads and then be packed. And prior
Speaker 1: to that, the table read was like a secret meeting
Speaker 1: that no one was allowed to know about and and
Speaker 1: or talk about. It was like treated like it was
Speaker 1: this big secret. But on the Office everybody went. You know,
Speaker 1: if you could fit in the room, you could go.
Speaker 1: He would even let whoever is there you read this part,
Speaker 1: and you read this little part, you'd be that like
Speaker 1: the little day player parts that hadn't been assigned yet
Speaker 1: to anybody. And I understand why he wanted an audience
Speaker 1: for the have the script read an audience outside of
Speaker 1: just the writers that wrote it and the actors. You
Speaker 1: want to gauge like how many laughs you get, And
Speaker 1: that's really smart in terms of getting feedback for the
Speaker 1: initial script. It also makes the crew feel like a
Speaker 1: bigger part of the show's got to watch the evolution
Speaker 1: of an episode from the table read to watching it
Speaker 1: on TV. And I never had that experience before. Yeah,
Speaker 1: no one has brought that up, but I think that's
Speaker 1: a really good point. I think that there's a there's
Speaker 1: a preciousness that we did not have on that show.
Speaker 1: So what I mean by that is I think that
Speaker 1: show runners bosses are trying to protect writers and if
Speaker 1: if something doesn't quite work, they want to let them
Speaker 1: work that out almost in private or in as you know,
Speaker 1: as close to private as possible with people reading it.
Speaker 1: And in that aspect it becomes way more presentational in
Speaker 1: a way, even even the delivery of an episode becomes
Speaker 1: much more presentational as a moose to collaborative. And I
Speaker 1: feel like what you're saying is really true. No one's
Speaker 1: talked about that, but yeah, the table reads were totally open.
Speaker 1: It was completely open to it. As you said, there's
Speaker 1: many people who could actually just fit into Yeah, and
Speaker 1: at first or like thinking they're gonna kick me out
Speaker 1: of here? Am I allowed to be in here? And
Speaker 1: like because I would really love to watch this if
Speaker 1: I can, you know? So, yes, it helps. It helps
Speaker 1: the camaraderie on the on the set, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it just makes it makes the experience a lot more fulfilling. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The other thing that it does is it begins to
Speaker 1: get your creative energy or your thought sooner as well. Right,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, sound was used quite a bit
Speaker 1: as a as a tangible object on our show because
Speaker 1: because of the way we shot it and this documentary
Speaker 1: slash mockumentary style. How did that affect your job that
Speaker 1: aspect of how the show was shot? Well, I mean
Speaker 1: we we wired everybody for the most part, mostly as backup.
Speaker 1: Or if let's say we were in the bullpen and
Speaker 1: we're going to zoom over to accounting, which is generally
Speaker 1: the farthest away corner, you know, I can't swing over
Speaker 1: there and and boom. Obviously basically Yeah. Honestly, it started
Speaker 1: the trend of having to wire every actor on set
Speaker 1: all the time, because every show that I've worked on
Speaker 1: since The Office, that's what they do. And prior to
Speaker 1: the Office, we basically never wired anyone unless it was
Speaker 1: a really wide shot or like a walk and talk
Speaker 1: down some narrow hallway, or you know, there was some
Speaker 1: physical reason why we couldn't boom it. But because of
Speaker 1: the Office, it became the norm. In fact, we had
Speaker 1: to buy a whole new recording system called a Diva
Speaker 1: sixteen that would have sixteen tracks on it so that
Speaker 1: we could put all the actors on their own tracks.
Speaker 1: It really it started this big thing. And then when
Speaker 1: they started up Parks and Wreck, the guys from there
Speaker 1: came over to see what we were doing so they
Speaker 1: could set it up on that show. Similar with Modern
Speaker 1: Family and like all the other shows that were kind
Speaker 1: of inspired by our show, you know, they needed to
Speaker 1: do this sound the same way. And so from then on,
Speaker 1: I can say every single show I've done, I have
Speaker 1: to have a multi track recorder with a NIX on
Speaker 1: one track and every individual actor on their own track.
Speaker 1: After that, and it was never like that prior to
Speaker 1: the Office, so that's one thing we did to accommodate
Speaker 1: the documentary thing that ended up being a trend. Right.
Speaker 1: It's so funny you bring that up. I think, as
Speaker 1: you say, it was a progression, and I think that
Speaker 1: there were sometimes I thought about this in years. There
Speaker 1: were sometimes when you thought, oh, they're not going over
Speaker 1: to accounting. They're not going to swing over to accounting
Speaker 1: on this thing, And sure enough the bomb garter would
Speaker 1: open his trap. Oh yeah. But I would keep my
Speaker 1: eye on you, see, I I would want you. I
Speaker 1: could tell after a while like Okay, I know what's
Speaker 1: going to happen here, Like because after a while I
Speaker 1: didn't even memory rise of the scenes anymore. Like I
Speaker 1: just would read them once in the morning and be like, okay,
Speaker 1: I got it. And I just watch people's faces, or
Speaker 1: i'd watch Matt, you know, interact with you. Or I
Speaker 1: could just tell from the dialogue like Okay, Kevin's definitely
Speaker 1: gonna react to this, you know. And so I would
Speaker 1: tell Ben in the mic, would be like, hey, Ben,
Speaker 1: Kevin's aba gonna do something after this, you know, or
Speaker 1: John is going to do something or whatever, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, after a while we had it down and
Speaker 1: we could just kind of predict and it was fun.
Speaker 1: What was going to happen? Yeah? No, but I it
Speaker 1: reminded me of just sometimes maybe we would do, you know,
Speaker 1: a final rehearsal or do the first take, and then
Speaker 1: here here would Carbone would come in and we wiring
Speaker 1: me up when it was not not an expected moment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would tell I would like, get in there and
Speaker 1: wire and something's going to happen. Yeah. So one thing
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you about significant sound moments
Speaker 1: on the show and what I mean by that we affection,
Speaker 1: we call it sound or no sound, and a couple
Speaker 1: of moments that that stick out. One is the proposal.
Speaker 1: I remember Jim and Pam. Now were you a part
Speaker 1: of that discussion. I don't think it was a big
Speaker 1: part of it, but I do remember Greg asking me
Speaker 1: my opinion. First of all, I've heard the original story
Speaker 1: from Dave Rogers, who I think just on a fluke.
Speaker 1: He just showed him a version of it. He's like, oh,
Speaker 1: we could do it like this, and then he played
Speaker 1: it for him with no sound, and then it turned
Speaker 1: into this like huge week long or two week long thing,
Speaker 1: this big debate we're going to do this sound or not.
Speaker 1: But my opinion was whether or not you use this
Speaker 1: sound should be determined by how why the shot was.
Speaker 1: I was like, look, if you're gonna play the proposal
Speaker 1: in a big, giant, wide shot, then it won't be
Speaker 1: such a big deal to not hear the sound, because
Speaker 1: from a documentary point of view, the audience will think, well,
Speaker 1: they're too far away, they didn't have their wires on
Speaker 1: or whatever, and you kind of see the traffic right
Speaker 1: front of the thing, and you can hear that and
Speaker 1: you can tell what's going on. But if you're going
Speaker 1: to be tight in and you don't have the sound,
Speaker 1: it's gonna look like a mistake. So that was my feeling.
Speaker 1: I was like, so, if you're showing their tight shots
Speaker 1: or whatever or from the chest up, then you've got
Speaker 1: to use this sound because otherwise it's just going to
Speaker 1: be distracting and look weird. But I know ultimately they
Speaker 1: went with the sound, and I know it was like
Speaker 1: the decision was made at the last minute. And if
Speaker 1: you talked to Eric Culjyn, he's there was the post
Speaker 1: supervisor on that, and I still work with him all
Speaker 1: the time, and I know he has the story where
Speaker 1: he has both tapes, one in each hand, and they're
Speaker 1: like standing in front, like in front of Gregg's house
Speaker 1: or in front of the studio or somewhere. They're like,
Speaker 1: all right, dude, which one is it going to be?
Speaker 1: We got to decide right now. I'm glad he decided
Speaker 1: on the sound though. I think that was more satisfying
Speaker 1: for the fans. Yeah. So, I've had a lot of
Speaker 1: people talk to me about mistakes being okay, really leaning
Speaker 1: into the realism of the characters that existed in this
Speaker 1: real time and space and dunder myth one and not
Speaker 1: wanting to have hair and makeup people sort of constantly
Speaker 1: coming in and adjusting, you know, small pieces of hair
Speaker 1: or whatever. Was there anything in terms of sound that
Speaker 1: was different on this show, Yeah, yeah, I mean especially
Speaker 1: early on. I think that they were more on board
Speaker 1: with that idea earlier on in the show, and then
Speaker 1: as the years went on, we maybe tried to perfect
Speaker 1: it a little more. But certainly a boom could be
Speaker 1: in the shot, and I think there are some moments
Speaker 1: in the second and third season when you see the
Speaker 1: boom in the shot and people didn't necessarily have to
Speaker 1: be right on Mike, you know, or be perfectly miked.
Speaker 1: It could sound off, or it could sound far away,
Speaker 1: especially if the person was far away, you know, because
Speaker 1: on a scripted show, well this was a scripted show,
Speaker 1: but on a real scripted show, your job is to
Speaker 1: get everything perfectly and clean and then let post decide
Speaker 1: do we want this to sound far away? You know,
Speaker 1: and then they change it and alter it to make
Speaker 1: it sound however they wanted creatively. But we were able
Speaker 1: to kind of just do that in real time if okay,
Speaker 1: well we didn't have 't have time to mike him,
Speaker 1: and he's running in from this, so we'll just I'll
Speaker 1: just queue the boom over that way, and whatever it
Speaker 1: sounds like is what it sounds like. So you definitely
Speaker 1: have more freedom in that sense, right. Obviously, one of
Speaker 1: the huge moments on the show Steve's final goodbye and
Speaker 1: him taking off the mic to go into the airport.
Speaker 1: Can you talk to me a little bit about that,
Speaker 1: how that was achieved and and and your role in that. Sure, well,
Speaker 1: we we had, so Greg came over and we talked
Speaker 1: about a couple of different ways to do it, and
Speaker 1: we even discussed the possibility of Steve handing me the
Speaker 1: pack and then I like show it to the camera
Speaker 1: and turn it off, and we watched the light flicker
Speaker 1: off like sort of like a dramatic kind of thing.
Speaker 1: We didn't do that, but we talked about it, and
Speaker 1: then in a couple of takes, I know, Matt tiled
Speaker 1: it down and you could see my hand come in
Speaker 1: and him hand the mike to me when he takes
Speaker 1: it off. But that was It was a sad day.
Speaker 1: You know. That whole period was just a blubber fest
Speaker 1: like for for everybody, you know, and then we had
Speaker 1: to go through it again when the show ended, you know,
Speaker 1: two years later we all had to cry every day
Speaker 1: for a whole week. Yeah, but yeah, that was that
Speaker 1: was a big day. You know. It was sad emotionally
Speaker 1: and and just to be there and I'm heat when
Speaker 1: you see him reach off camera he hands it to me,
Speaker 1: so which is kind of a neat moment. I'm like,
Speaker 1: he's handing that to me, I'm standing right there, and
Speaker 1: he's gone, and he's gone. He walks out, and you
Speaker 1: can still kind of hear like muffled you know, airport noises,
Speaker 1: which I presumably I guess here for the boom in
Speaker 1: a real world, you would still hear the boom, and
Speaker 1: and you would hear them a little bit too, although
Speaker 1: they were kind of far away. But I still like
Speaker 1: what they did, you know, to make it just more dramatic,
Speaker 1: I guess. Yeah, the way that our show was shot,
Speaker 1: and I think part of it was the spontaneous way
Speaker 1: at times the camera moved around, which that obviously made
Speaker 1: you have to move around. I mean, I don't think
Speaker 1: gymnastics is an exaggeration. I mean we talked already about
Speaker 1: you laying on top of the vending machines to be
Speaker 1: able to get down, but when the camera was gonna swing,
Speaker 1: you had to swing out of the way so you
Speaker 1: wouldn't be in the shot. No, I mean we we
Speaker 1: would call it like a dance basically, and for the
Speaker 1: most part it was just the three of us, just
Speaker 1: me and Matt and Randall, and we're just like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you're gonna stand here, then I'm gonna stand here, and
Speaker 1: then he'll say this, and you walk over here, and
Speaker 1: then he does this and I walk over there, and
Speaker 1: then we would just work out this dance and memorize
Speaker 1: it basically, and do it three or four times. Then everybody,
Speaker 1: the real people come in and then we do it
Speaker 1: like fifteen times and then we move on to the
Speaker 1: next one. You know. It was super fun and sometimes
Speaker 1: I could be there. They're whipping through me. You can't
Speaker 1: tell I'm there, you know. So there's probably lots of
Speaker 1: spots on lots of episodes where I'm in the whip,
Speaker 1: or the other camera is in the whip, or Ken
Speaker 1: Kappas is in the whip, sitting in the corner at
Speaker 1: a little monitor with Veda, you know. But I mean
Speaker 1: a lot of times it was just the three of
Speaker 1: us on that set, the only crew people there. You know.
Speaker 1: Did that give you a closer or different relationship with
Speaker 1: the actors then you've had on other shows? Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: And I mean just the mere situation of all of
Speaker 1: us being in that room all day for you know,
Speaker 1: eight months or whatever it is. I mean, you spent
Speaker 1: more time with each other than with our families and
Speaker 1: our spouses, you know, and that that situation alone makes
Speaker 1: you closer. Yeah, But also the intimacy of the nature
Speaker 1: of how we shoot and the communication. You know, that's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: so you're gonna you're gonna be here, and you want
Speaker 1: to walk here, and we gotta you know, we just
Speaker 1: gotta stay out of each other's way and let each
Speaker 1: other do our job so the scene can happen. It
Speaker 1: isn't necessary to communicate that much on a On a
Speaker 1: regular working set, you can kind of the hands off
Speaker 1: and just do your job. But that wasn't necessarily true
Speaker 1: on the office. You know, we kind of had to
Speaker 1: really talk to each other. It's occurring to me now
Speaker 1: maybe stronger sitting here talking with you again. I don't
Speaker 1: recall any other job that I've had where without talking
Speaker 1: to a director or a writer or a producer that
Speaker 1: I would have conversations with sound you or camera Matt
Speaker 1: or Randall and say, hey, I'm gonna do this, make
Speaker 1: sure you have made right. That doesn't happen now with
Speaker 1: you not saying like let me on that by the
Speaker 1: director or no, we just we just just did it
Speaker 1: because we were gonna do it a million times. Anyway.
Speaker 1: It's to me right now how strange that is, I know,
Speaker 1: deciding our own rules as it goes along. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: the energy of that is really kind of intoxicating and fun.
Speaker 1: It just made it so much fun to be there. Like,
Speaker 1: I love watching that opening. I think it's is the
Speaker 1: fourth season where Ed is in the elevator and they're
Speaker 1: doing that song that no no no, no, no no no,
Speaker 1: the opening the fourth season. That day was so much
Speaker 1: fun and all we did was that scene. We didn't
Speaker 1: do anything else that day. I think we wrapped at
Speaker 1: two o'clock. This that was like, just to watch that
Speaker 1: is just God. That was just a super, super fun
Speaker 1: day and I get that feeling a lot when I
Speaker 1: watched the show. Yeah, and my kids watch it now too,
Speaker 1: which is great. Oh they do. Yeah, and my son's
Speaker 1: really into it. He's thirteen. That sounds right, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: he's uh, he's definitely into it. Yeah, watch that in
Speaker 1: the Simpsons. Those are two good choices. Give that both
Speaker 1: stamped with Greg Daniels. Right. That's so. You appeared on
Speaker 1: the show as many of our crew members did Customer Loyalty.
Speaker 1: You were a dad, angry dad, I think are annoyed
Speaker 1: sitting next to uh to Pam there at CC's recital.
Speaker 1: How was that being on camera for you? Are you
Speaker 1: glad you did it? Oh? Yeah, that was super fun.
Speaker 1: And that stemmed from, you know, the whole introducing the
Speaker 1: boom operator as a character and bringing in Chris Diamond
Speaker 1: Topolis and me auditioning to play myself and which I
Speaker 1: got to do. So I I had an audition in
Speaker 1: front of Greg and Alison Jones and read with Jenni
Speaker 1: Fisher and you know, I'm not an actor, but Greg
Speaker 1: really wanted me to do it, and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I'll try it, you know, we'll see how it goes.
Speaker 1: And uh, and they ultimately decided to hire an actual
Speaker 1: actor is probably why. But sort of as a as
Speaker 1: a joke I think to the fans and as a
Speaker 1: thank you to me for like going along with everything,
Speaker 1: they gave me a little part in that same episode,
Speaker 1: the episode where they introduced him, and oh it was great.
Speaker 1: You know that's awesome. Yeah. So you're Brian Whittle character
Speaker 1: on the show, real life person, the boom operator, as
Speaker 1: you said, played by Chris Do you know how that
Speaker 1: idea came about where you involved in discussions so you
Speaker 1: were asked an audition for it. But when did you
Speaker 1: become aware that that was going to be kind of
Speaker 1: a signature moment in the last season. The writers have
Speaker 1: been talking about it for at least a few weeks
Speaker 1: before that, maybe even a month. They I think for
Speaker 1: a long time had wanted someone from the crew to
Speaker 1: step through and be part of the show. Why they
Speaker 1: chose the boom operator, I don't know. I'm imagining because
Speaker 1: if it had been a camera person, then they have
Speaker 1: to have a moment where they put down the camera
Speaker 1: or hand the camera to someone and they walked over,
Speaker 1: so they'd be like that sort of inner option in
Speaker 1: the screen. But I think they thought, well, the boom
Speaker 1: I could just walk on and it wouldn't be wouldn't
Speaker 1: disrupt anything, you know, So maybe that's why they picked him.
Speaker 1: But yeah, they were talking for a long time about
Speaker 1: what the story was going to be, how he was
Speaker 1: going to be, what he was going to be about,
Speaker 1: and they would mention it to me on the set,
Speaker 1: you know, all we're upstairs talking about you and what
Speaker 1: what's gonna happen with your thing and so. And then
Speaker 1: eventually they figured it out and they wrote out some
Speaker 1: scripts and Greg asked me onto a to audition for it.
Speaker 1: You told me after the office you you worked with
Speaker 1: Chris Damnontopolis on Silicon Valley. Did you teach him how
Speaker 1: to hold the boom or were their aspects of of
Speaker 1: you know, of him creating that character that you talked
Speaker 1: to him in that moment or now. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I just told him he actually had like a different
Speaker 1: rig on. He had what's called an E n G setup,
Speaker 1: which a documentary person would have, you know, the thing
Speaker 1: we wear on your shoulder that you see news people
Speaker 1: have or sports people. And uh, I just you know,
Speaker 1: just showed him how to wear and how to how
Speaker 1: to hold it, so it looked like he knew what
Speaker 1: he was doing. I don't think there were too many
Speaker 1: shots of him actually working as a sound man. He
Speaker 1: just stuff and came in, so it wasn't super important.
Speaker 1: But but yeah, he was cool. How do you feel
Speaker 1: about the fact that it was you, your name, that
Speaker 1: you know, tried to ruin one of the greatest love
Speaker 1: stories in television history. I mean, how does that make
Speaker 1: you feel today? Uh? It makes me feel great because
Speaker 1: I got to be I have a character named after
Speaker 1: me on the show. He could have been the most
Speaker 1: evil person there. It's still cool. That's awesome. Um. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Since The Office, You've done a lot of work with
Speaker 1: Mindy Kaling, right, have you worked on the Mendy Project,
Speaker 1: Sex Lies of College Girls. You have another little show
Speaker 1: called Champions that lasted for one season. We did that
Speaker 1: one also, right, you enjoy working with her? Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: been great. We did I think six five or six
Speaker 1: seasons of the Mindy Project and that's where I got
Speaker 1: to move up to sound mixer. So that was great
Speaker 1: because I don't have to hold the boom over my
Speaker 1: head anymore. And then we went right into her Championship
Speaker 1: after that, and then I did Yeah, I did Sex
Speaker 1: Lives last year, the pilot. But I've done some of
Speaker 1: Jenna's shows too, and or just I did Splitting Up
Speaker 1: together with Jenna. I love when our crew. There's nothing
Speaker 1: like it showing up somewhere and there's the guys. Um. Anyway,
Speaker 1: do you have any any favorite moments from the set
Speaker 1: of the Office that you remember? Favorite moments, Um, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have a bunch. I mean, the hardest I ever
Speaker 1: laughed and I broke all the time on probably the
Speaker 1: same for many is the Christmas episode where you're sitting
Speaker 1: on Steve lap Yeah, I mean He's like, just say
Speaker 1: some toys, Just say some toys. I mean that, and
Speaker 1: plus I have the boom over my head, so I'm
Speaker 1: like this and I'm in a really uncomfortable physical position
Speaker 1: and it's way out, really long and have the boom
Speaker 1: over the two of you and and everybody, everybody is
Speaker 1: breaking all over the whole bullpen, and oh god, it
Speaker 1: was so funny. It is and I'm like shaking and
Speaker 1: trying to hold this thing not drop it. Well, I
Speaker 1: realized that you were probably the only other person that
Speaker 1: could hear, because you had the mics on and you
Speaker 1: were there booming it. But I've said to people afterward,
Speaker 1: everyone who was laughing, they don't even know the half
Speaker 1: of it. Because there was a sound that he made,
Speaker 1: very small that the mics obviously could pick up. But
Speaker 1: at the moment I sat down, he made this sound
Speaker 1: and it slayed me every time. Now, were you were
Speaker 1: you really like sitting on his lap putting all your
Speaker 1: weight on him, or were you kind of like but
Speaker 1: by the way, and I just did this for some
Speaker 1: other dumb bit too. He looked at me after and
Speaker 1: he's like, it's not even heavy. It's not when you
Speaker 1: see on someone's life. It is not that I promised
Speaker 1: next time I see you, I'm gonna sit on your
Speaker 1: lap and we're gonna we're gonna try it out. But
Speaker 1: he was like, no, it's not that, but oh no,
Speaker 1: he he made it seem like it was Oh he
Speaker 1: sure did. Well, yeah, who wouldn't. I mean, that's that
Speaker 1: you got to do that he did. I mean he
Speaker 1: nailed it. It was it was perfect. He nailed most everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he really did. He was amazing. You mentioned it before
Speaker 1: the tears of the finale, when you found out that
Speaker 1: the show was ending. How was that for you? Well,
Speaker 1: we all, I think we suspected it was coming, and uh,
Speaker 1: you might have been there when that time. Gregg came
Speaker 1: onto the bus. Remember we were shooting on that bus
Speaker 1: and he stepped on and he said, Hey, I just
Speaker 1: want to tell you guys, it's going to be announced
Speaker 1: on deadline in like ten minutes. He's like, just so
Speaker 1: you hear it from me, this is gonna be our
Speaker 1: last season. And then he made a comment because there
Speaker 1: were still several episodes left, and he made a comment.
Speaker 1: He's like, so he says, now that we know this
Speaker 1: early on, we can really savor it, right, which was
Speaker 1: a really great way to look at it, because it
Speaker 1: was sad, but it was like, Okay, at least we
Speaker 1: know now it's not gonna be abrupt and we're just gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, like some some shows you're like, oh, we're done,
Speaker 1: go home, you know. And but but on this show,
Speaker 1: it's like we knew, okay, we've got five six whatever
Speaker 1: was left episodes and we can really just come into
Speaker 1: work every day and really and just love it, you know,
Speaker 1: until it's over. Yeah, but yeah, it was sad. It
Speaker 1: was sad. I mean you were there, you remember. It
Speaker 1: was like every time we're on the set's like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, this is the last time we're gonna shoot
Speaker 1: in the annex with this person's ending here and this,
Speaker 1: and then we din. Then every setup was like this
Speaker 1: is the last time we're doing this scenario and this
Speaker 1: is the last time we're doing this right, and it
Speaker 1: just it was just went on and on and every
Speaker 1: scene someone would break, just like fourteen days. Also like
Speaker 1: shooting the finale, and that finale, we actually went to
Speaker 1: a ton of weird locations. There was the farm, and
Speaker 1: there was Kevin's Bar, and there was like the Q
Speaker 1: and a thing and you know, all these weird locations
Speaker 1: which we never did. And so it was like we
Speaker 1: were away for like seven eight days and then we
Speaker 1: went back and kind of did you know, the very
Speaker 1: end um to finish it off, which I think was
Speaker 1: always a great idea. It was. It was right up
Speaker 1: till the end, right up to the end. Ye like
Speaker 1: to the wrap party like it was like it was.
Speaker 1: We went to the rap party right after we wrapped
Speaker 1: on Saturday. We were like two hours late. We relate
Speaker 1: to our own. That sounds like us. It sounds like us. Um, listen,
Speaker 1: I love so much of what you have talked to
Speaker 1: me about today and the unique collaboration that we had
Speaker 1: between the cast and the crew and the writers and
Speaker 1: the producers, and is really a key ingredient I think
Speaker 1: to why the show is endured and how it's thrived
Speaker 1: now seven eight years later. Um, I'll ask you what
Speaker 1: I've asked everyone. Why do you think the show now
Speaker 1: is bigger than it was when we were working on it?
Speaker 1: What do you think the secret? Sauces Um? Well, the
Speaker 1: main reason is is that it's funny. But the sort
Speaker 1: of unifying reason is I think it's just because it's
Speaker 1: it's just very real while at the same time being outlandish.
Speaker 1: You know, everybody has these weird people they work with,
Speaker 1: and you know, these people that can be blown up
Speaker 1: into caricatures, and that's what this show does. It just
Speaker 1: blows up these people you already know into the weird
Speaker 1: people that you sort of make fun of them for already,
Speaker 1: whether they're that extreme or not. And I think everybody
Speaker 1: connects with that. Also, there's just nothing else like it
Speaker 1: right now probably and there never will be again. TV
Speaker 1: is totally different now. We don't have twenty six episodes
Speaker 1: and it's not on the same time, and we don't
Speaker 1: all watch it together as a country, and it's just,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just a very different thing. And that
Speaker 1: was like maybe the last really great, great television show
Speaker 1: of that era. And uh, I think that's my people
Speaker 1: love it. Brian, Thank you so much. It's so good
Speaker 1: to see you. Great to see you too, Thanks for
Speaker 1: coming and talking to me. And uh, and you will
Speaker 1: live forever Brian Whittle, the man who tried to break
Speaker 1: up Jim and Pam. Ladies and gentlemen. Thanks buddy, Sure,
Speaker 1: thank you. It's a great time. Brian, Thank you so
Speaker 1: much now and I truly meant what I said. You
Speaker 1: will live forever both as Brian Whittle the character, but
Speaker 1: also you the real Brian Whittle, office lump own genius
Speaker 1: and the boom operator who didn't break up one couple,
Speaker 1: not even one you broke up Nobody my friend, So
Speaker 1: thank you for coming on and of course this isn't
Speaker 1: the end. I will be back next week for another
Speaker 1: episode of the Office Deep Dive, this one well with
Speaker 1: another love interest of Pam actually David Denman a k A.
Speaker 1: Roy Get excited and of course uh coming soon my
Speaker 1: new podcast, Off the Beat, more stories, more memories, more everything.
Speaker 1: I'm going to miss you this week, all right, I
Speaker 1: hope you'll miss me, but know that I will see
Speaker 1: you soon. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive
Speaker 1: produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley.
Speaker 1: Our producers are Emily Carr and Diego Tapia, and our
Speaker 1: intern is Hannah Harris. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak,
Speaker 1: performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode
Speaker 1: was mixed by seth Olandsky