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Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by squar Space. Whether

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Speaker 1: dot com and enter code history to get ten percent

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Speaker 1: off your first purchase. I'm Matt, I'm Null, I'm Ben,

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Speaker 1: and we are Stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 1: Each week we cover the latest and strangest in fringe science,

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Speaker 1: government cover ups, allegations at the paranormal, and more. New

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Speaker 1: episodes come out every Friday on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play,

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Speaker 1: and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: you missed in history class from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Fry and I'm

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Speaker 1: Tray C. V Wilson. Okay, Tracy, I have to start

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Speaker 1: with a confession, which is how I became interested in

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Speaker 1: today's topic. So I saw this story online saying that

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Speaker 1: this woman was the patron saint of cats. People know

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Speaker 1: I'm an animal person, have a handful of kitties with

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Speaker 1: my own. Don't get excited, cat people. They're absolutely zero

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Speaker 1: kitties in this story. Uh. We will touch on that

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Speaker 1: patronage thing about why she's associated with cats at the end,

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Speaker 1: But we're going to talk today about St. Gertrude of Novelle,

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Speaker 1: and she is sometimes confused with St. Gertrude the Great

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Speaker 1: because the two are often depicted similarly in addition to

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Speaker 1: having the same name, but they lived six hundred years apart.

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Speaker 1: They are not the same person at all. So you

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Speaker 1: just do a Google search for St. Gertrude, you will

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Speaker 1: get a mix of the two. Do not be confused.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about the one from the seventh century. Our Gertrude,

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Speaker 1: who was described as fair of face but more beautiful

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Speaker 1: of mine, announced her religious calling at a very early age,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about that in her life

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Speaker 1: story as it unfolded, as well as her importance in

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Speaker 1: the grander political scheme of Europe in medieval times. Gertrude

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Speaker 1: was the daughter of Pepin, the first of Landon, who

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Speaker 1: was the mayor of the palace of King Dagobert. She

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Speaker 1: was born around six six, although some accountless different adjacent years,

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Speaker 1: and she was born in what's now southern Belgium. At

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Speaker 1: the time of her birth, this was part of the

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Speaker 1: Austrasian frank Frankish Kingdom, and her mother was Ida of Aquitaines,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes you'll also see this written as it's a

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Speaker 1: or it's a with an e at the end. Ida

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Speaker 1: was the daughter of Bishop Arnold of Metz, and Gertrude

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Speaker 1: also had an older sister called Bega. Gertrude's family line

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Speaker 1: in her biography is described as being lofty in nature

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Speaker 1: uh and known to all of Europe to such a

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Speaker 1: degree that rehashing the family line and its importance would

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Speaker 1: simply be a waste of time for the writer and

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Speaker 1: the reader. But it isn't really specified beyond that, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk a little bit more about the

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Speaker 1: importance of her family to the political landscape a little

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Speaker 1: bit later. Though. It always cracks me up when really

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Speaker 1: old documents are like, this is completely obvious to everyone,

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Speaker 1: and so we're not going to explain it further. But

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Speaker 1: by now it's not obvious anymore. So we know the

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Speaker 1: story of her young childhood is also lost in her

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Speaker 1: Vita Sancta or her Saints biography. It picks up when

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Speaker 1: she was already ten, and this is the point where

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Speaker 1: the story of her life is a religious religious figure

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Speaker 1: really begins, So it makes sense that in a narrative

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Speaker 1: about the life of a saint that would pick up

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Speaker 1: at ten and not when she was born. And at

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Speaker 1: that point in time, her father hosted a banquet, and

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Speaker 1: this banquet was attended by the King and a number

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Speaker 1: of other nobles, so obviously like they were important enough

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Speaker 1: that they could ask the King over and he would

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Speaker 1: show up. Uh. And in the course of this feast,

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Speaker 1: Gertrude was brought before the King and asked if she

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Speaker 1: would marry the son of the Duke of Australia. And

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Speaker 1: the Duke and question had asked permission of the King

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Speaker 1: to make this request that his son and Peppin's daughter

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Speaker 1: be betrothed, because this would be a very strong political alliance.

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Speaker 1: The young Gertrude, currently aged ten, was extremely clear in

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Speaker 1: her reply she would not marry the man in question,

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Speaker 1: or any other man for that matter. She had already

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Speaker 1: decided to pursue a religious life and to become a

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Speaker 1: bride of Christ. So the King and other guests were

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Speaker 1: really taken aback at this resolve coming from a ten

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Speaker 1: year old. And you know that she was being so direct,

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Speaker 1: considering that she was such a young girl. Yeah, she

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Speaker 1: was apparently very very clear. Nobody walked away from that

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Speaker 1: with any question marks about maybe she'll change her mind,

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Speaker 1: And allegedly the matter dropped there and Gertrude was never

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Speaker 1: pressured to marry thereafter. In a book called Sainted Women

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Speaker 1: of the Dark Ages, though, the authors suggests that the

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Speaker 1: close connection with the crown and the politics of her

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Speaker 1: family may have actually been what drove Gertrude to her

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Speaker 1: religious calling, and that she was purposely choosing celibacy as

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Speaker 1: a way to escape ever having to enter into an

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Speaker 1: essentially political marriage. Some historians also believe that in all

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Speaker 1: likelihood she eventually would have been encouraged to marry, or

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Speaker 1: perhaps even more than encouraged, forced into something, had her

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Speaker 1: father not died, but that is all speculation uh and

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Speaker 1: in fact, Pepin did die in six thirty nine or

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Speaker 1: six forty, not long after King Dagobert passed away. When

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Speaker 1: Gertrude's father died, her mother, who was also eventually canonized,

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Speaker 1: worked with the Bishop of Saint Amma's built a double

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Speaker 1: abbey on the family's land at Novelle. One was for

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Speaker 1: women and one was for men. The bishop actually went

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Speaker 1: to Ida with the request that she do this, eventually

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Speaker 1: convincing her to take on the project. Yes, some texts

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Speaker 1: will indicate that the building of the two abbeys was

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Speaker 1: actually a solution to a problem for Ida, and that

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Speaker 1: problem being how to provide for a daughter who was

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Speaker 1: sworn to her religion and her religion only with marriage

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Speaker 1: out of the question. Worried as well that without the

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Speaker 1: protection of Peppin, Gertrude would be kidnapped or matched away

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Speaker 1: by men with horrible ideas. Ida also cut her daughter's

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Speaker 1: hair short as a taunsure, both as a sign of

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Speaker 1: her religious devotion and to diminish her beauty and basically

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Speaker 1: make her less appealing to would be abductors. And for

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Speaker 1: Gertrude's part, she was totally into her new haircut, like

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Speaker 1: you could you could see where someone who you know,

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Speaker 1: particularly in that era, when all women have long hair

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Speaker 1: for the most part, and they suddenly have it all

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Speaker 1: shorn off, there's like a whole identity thing. And no,

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Speaker 1: she was very delighted, and in her Vita, the reaction

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Speaker 1: is described this way, quote, Blessed Gertrude gave thanks to

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Speaker 1: God and rejoice that for Christ's sake, she deserved to

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Speaker 1: take this crown on her head in this brief life,

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Speaker 1: which would be a perceptual crown of integrity in body

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Speaker 1: and soul. When the abbey was completed, Gertrude officially took

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Speaker 1: the veil as a bride of Christ and was appointed

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Speaker 1: the first abbess at Neville. Ida also lived there as

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Speaker 1: a nun for the rest of her life, and she

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Speaker 1: served basically ever as a matriarch in a voice of

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Speaker 1: guidance for the younger nuns, and this move on the

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Speaker 1: part of mother and daughter is sometimes characterized as politically

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Speaker 1: problematic and opposed by Frankish royalty at the time. Remember

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Speaker 1: that peppin Ida's husband and Gertrude's father had been Mayor

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Speaker 1: of the Royal Palace. Their family was very tightly intertwined

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Speaker 1: with the crown, so of course for them to be like,

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Speaker 1: we don't want any more of this, We're gonna go

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Speaker 1: be religious now would have been a little bit odd.

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Speaker 1: But there are also some theories that it actually may

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Speaker 1: not have been entirely unusual for women of a family

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Speaker 1: to devote themselves to religion at the loss of a patriarch.

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Speaker 1: So there are some conflicting views from historians on whether

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Speaker 1: or not this was a completely normal move or not.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that's almost always mentioned in accounts

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Speaker 1: of Gertrude is her willingness to welcome pilgrims and travelers

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Speaker 1: to the abbey, regardless of their religious affiliations or lack thereof.

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Speaker 1: Two of the most historically well known visitors were a

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Speaker 1: pair of Irish brothers, Fallian and Alton. The pair were

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Speaker 1: traveling from Rome, Italy to paromph Rands, to the site

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Speaker 1: where their brother was laid to rest after his death,

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Speaker 1: and while the brothers were staying at Novelle, Gertrude and

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Speaker 1: her mother decided to gift them a tract of land

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Speaker 1: called Fuss, and a monastery was built there. And Follian

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Speaker 1: and I want to be clear to you that I

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Speaker 1: saw this written several different ways. One was f O

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Speaker 1: l l i a N, like a normal Fullian pronunciation,

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Speaker 1: and the other was fo i l l a N,

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Speaker 1: which would be more like fo. So either way, that's

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Speaker 1: who we're talking about. But he stayed at Novelle with

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Speaker 1: the abbey's there, and Alton took charge of the new

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Speaker 1: monastery that had been built at Fuss, and both brothers

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Speaker 1: were also eventually canonized, which you could almost say about

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Speaker 1: every single person that comes up in this story. Did

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Speaker 1: they ever make it to where their brother was laid

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Speaker 1: to rest? I don't know. I never found anything about it.

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Speaker 1: It seems like that because they did they just give

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Speaker 1: up or did they go there and then they were

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Speaker 1: looping back? It was unclear. Okay, So in a moment

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Speaker 1: we will talk about a shift in Gertrude's life that

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Speaker 1: was PRECIPI hated by a loss. But before we do,

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Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick break and have a

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Speaker 1: word from one of our awesome sponsors. So back to

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Speaker 1: our story. In six fifty two, Ida died and she

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Speaker 1: left a large amount of land. Their family, remember, was

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Speaker 1: quite wealthy, and that was used to build additional religious

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Speaker 1: institutions such as churches and monasteries. It really formed the

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Speaker 1: foundation in a lot of ways of Novelle and Ida

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Speaker 1: also left a great deal of work in Gertrude's hands.

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Speaker 1: Ida had been very instrumental in running affairs at the

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Speaker 1: abbey and providing guidance, and once she was gone, Gertrude

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Speaker 1: actually ended up turning over much of that work, as

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Speaker 1: well as a good bit of her own administrative duties

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Speaker 1: to several trusted nuns. Because she was now the sole

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Speaker 1: leader of the abbey, other duties were parted out to

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Speaker 1: some of the monks, with the intent that better management

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Speaker 1: and delegation of all of these responsibilities would mean that

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Speaker 1: Gertrude could devote more time to dy of the scripture.

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Speaker 1: Gertrude often fasted as a form of religious observance, so

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Speaker 1: much that she eventually grew very weak, and she also

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Speaker 1: abstained from sleep, which really didn't help her failing health. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: she became debilitated enough from these practices that she wasn't

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Speaker 1: able to fulfill her duties as abbess anymore, and she resigned.

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Speaker 1: After consulting with her most trusted monks and nuns, Gertrude

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Speaker 1: made the decision that her niece Wolfa Trude should take

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Speaker 1: over a position as abbots, and that change was made

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Speaker 1: in December of six fifty eight. And this was actually

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Speaker 1: a problem for the crown. Wilfa Trude's father and Gertrude's brother,

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Speaker 1: grim Old, had been embroiled in a power battle when

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Speaker 1: Pepin died in an effort to gain the post his

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Speaker 1: father had once occupied, and he also attempted a coup

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Speaker 1: uh in terms of like who was actually running things UH.

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Speaker 1: So there was bad blood and it remained, and an

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Speaker 1: effort was made to actually oust Wilfa Trude since her

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Speaker 1: family had sort of such a bad uh shadow cast

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Speaker 1: over it by all of this political intrigue. But it

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Speaker 1: really speaks to the power of Gertrude that she was

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Speaker 1: able to go ahead and push through Wilfa Trude as

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Speaker 1: her successor and assert that this should be the person

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Speaker 1: that was running the abbey. And the younger woman did

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Speaker 1: remain in her post, according to Gertrude's biography quote through

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Speaker 1: the grace of God, she actually held that post for

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Speaker 1: about ten years. On March sixteen of six fifty nine,

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Speaker 1: Gertrude tasked one of the monks at the abbey to

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Speaker 1: go to the monastery at Foss with a grave question.

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Speaker 1: She wanted to know if alten had received any indication

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Speaker 1: from God about when she would die. He replied, today

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Speaker 1: is sixteen March tomorrow, during solemn Mass. The main servant

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Speaker 1: of God and Virgin of Christ, Gertrude will go forth

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Speaker 1: from her body and say this to her. Let her

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Speaker 1: neither fear nor be alarmed. Concerning her death, but may

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Speaker 1: she pass on joyously because Blessed b Ship Patrick, with

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Speaker 1: the chosen angels of God and with great glory, are

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Speaker 1: prepared to receive her. And Gertrude received the news exactly

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Speaker 1: as Alton directed, with joy. She was so excited that

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Speaker 1: she stayed up the entire night praying with the nuns

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Speaker 1: of the abbey, and in the morning she received communion.

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Speaker 1: She thanked God for calling her to his kingdom, and

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Speaker 1: she died exactly at the time that he had predicted.

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Speaker 1: She was thirty three when she died, which some attribute

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Speaker 1: great significance too, because that's the same age that Christ died.

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Speaker 1: According to scripture. Gertrude was honored as a saint upon

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Speaker 1: her death, although she has never been canonized officially. Her

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Speaker 1: her feast day is March seventeen, which was the day

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Speaker 1: of her death. Yeah, she's recognized as a saint, even though, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, as was the case in medieval times, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people were recognized as saints and they didn't

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Speaker 1: really go through that official canonization process. But she is

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Speaker 1: considered a saint and after her passing, devotion to St.

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Speaker 1: Gertrude spread very very quickly and the abbess who succeeded

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Speaker 1: will for Trude at Novelle Agnes eventually built a church

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Speaker 1: in honor of Gertrude. There. There are many miracles described

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Speaker 1: in writings about the period of time shortly after sant

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Speaker 1: Ortrude's death, and we're going to mention just two of

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Speaker 1: them to give you kind of a sense of the

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Speaker 1: sorts of acts that are attributed to her. Yeah, there

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Speaker 1: are many, many. There are some great ones involving sea

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Speaker 1: monsters and people invoking her name and the sea monsters

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Speaker 1: being like, all right, we're out and leaving. But those

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Speaker 1: are not the two that we're talking about the first

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Speaker 1: year we're gonna talk about. The first one that we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about happened ten years after Gertrude's death,

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Speaker 1: and at that point a fire broke out at the

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Speaker 1: monastery at Novelle, and it happened very suddenly and without warning,

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Speaker 1: and as everyone was fleeing, one of the monks claimed

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Speaker 1: to have seen a vision of St. Gertrude appearing over

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Speaker 1: the fire and using her veil to fan the flames

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Speaker 1: away from the building, and it was eventually put out

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Speaker 1: much more easily, I think than anyone expected. One of

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Speaker 1: the other miracles associated with Saint Gertrude after her death

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Speaker 1: involves a young girl who had been ill for some

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Speaker 1: time and eventually lost her vision. And according to this story, St.

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Speaker 1: Gertrude appeared to the sick child in a dream, an

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Speaker 1: instructor to her to have faith and to go to

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Speaker 1: the bed where Gertrude had died and to lie in it.

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Speaker 1: When the sick child made her way to Novelle and

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Speaker 1: did so, she was helped in her frail state, into

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Speaker 1: the bed by the nuns there, and her sight was

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Speaker 1: restored and her illness disappeared. Yeah, it's one of those

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Speaker 1: stories that allegedly at that point her parents had been

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Speaker 1: seeking far and wide for any kind of treatment that

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Speaker 1: was going to help her, and that was when she

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Speaker 1: had her vision. Uh. Thirty years after St. Gertrude's death

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Speaker 1: were announced. Getting out of the miracle zone heads up

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Speaker 1: her older sister Bega, who had already married. She had

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Speaker 1: had a family of her own, but then she became

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Speaker 1: a widow and at that point she devoted her life

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Speaker 1: to religion as well. And so, uh, this family is

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Speaker 1: rife with saints. I mentioned a little while go that

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Speaker 1: almost anyone we name is now a saint. That is

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Speaker 1: the truth. In this family for sure, peppin Ida and

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Speaker 1: Bega are all recognized as saints as well as Gertrude.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that has made Saint Gertrude's life

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Speaker 1: something of a tug of war among historians is the

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Speaker 1: fact that her biography Vita Saint Gertrudis, has been called

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Speaker 1: into question as a historical document. We don't know who

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Speaker 1: wrote it other than the fact that he was a monk,

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Speaker 1: but it has been accepted by many to have been

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Speaker 1: a contemporary account of her life and an important historical

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Speaker 1: document of the Maravedians in early Carolingian line in medieval Europe.

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Speaker 1: This is a line that Gertrude was part of. In

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty six, however, one history in a nineteenth century

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Speaker 1: Charlemagne's scholar named Heinrich Bonnell, challenged the authenticity of this biography.

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Speaker 1: He did, and this was a big thing to proclaim. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He believed that it has was written several hundred years

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Speaker 1: after the life of St. Gertrude in the eleventh century,

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Speaker 1: and this assertion really had the potential to up end

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Speaker 1: everything that had previously been thought about the early roots

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Speaker 1: of the Carolingian Empire. While there were plenty of counter

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Speaker 1: arguments at the time that he actually questioned the veracity

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Speaker 1: of this document, the end to the debate came when

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Speaker 1: a copy of the text called the Montpelier Manuscript, was

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Speaker 1: dated to the eighth century. So the discovery of that

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Speaker 1: text kind of put a lid on some of this debate.

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Speaker 1: While it isn't quite as cool as if a seventh

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Speaker 1: century copy was found, one that would have been written

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Speaker 1: at the time she was actually living, it certainly blasted

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Speaker 1: apart the theory that it didn't come around until the

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Speaker 1: eleventh century. There have also been late seventh century documents

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Speaker 1: that referenced the Gertrude Biography, which further indicate that it

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Speaker 1: was written by a contemporary of hers and not someone

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Speaker 1: much later. And while there is ongoing debate about some

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Speaker 1: of the particulars and the details of the Veda, arguments

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Speaker 1: about the date of its origin really have settled down

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Speaker 1: for the most part. Even so, this is still a

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Speaker 1: tenuous history as it relates to European bloodlines. There's a

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Speaker 1: wonderful line in the book Late Mayor of Injian France

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Speaker 1: History and Hagiography six forty two seven twenty, in which

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Speaker 1: the authors wrote, quote, using geographical sources to determine who

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Speaker 1: the members of an early medieval medieval family were and

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Speaker 1: how they were related to each other can be a

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Speaker 1: very hazardous enterprise. Yeah, you can't take it at face value,

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Speaker 1: which gets tricky when you're in a time period where

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Speaker 1: we don't have a lot of contemporary accounts. Uh. They

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Speaker 1: kind of make the case of like, no, you need

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Speaker 1: to find supporting things that also corroborated, that are individual

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Speaker 1: and separate from it. The reasoning for this is that

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Speaker 1: because it was a point where in time where the

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Speaker 1: church and politics were completely intertwined, it was important and

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Speaker 1: vital even for royal lines to be able to include

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Speaker 1: family members with religious significance. And Gertrude and her family

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Speaker 1: are relatives of Charlemagne through her sister Bega's children, so

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Speaker 1: the stakes here are incredibly high historically. So if you

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Speaker 1: were wondering why a nineteenth century Charlemagne scholar even cared,

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Speaker 1: that's why, Yeah, he cared a whole lot. Today you

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Speaker 1: can actually take a fifteen kilometer St. Gertrude of Novelle

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Speaker 1: tour if you ever find yourself visiting her hometown on

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Speaker 1: the Sunday following St. Michael's Day. It's a very highly

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Speaker 1: attended event and pilgrims walk alongside Gertrude's relics. Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is no like small affair. There is a set schedule.

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Speaker 1: There is a really very carefully set order to the processional,

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Speaker 1: including horses that are ridden by young boys that are

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Speaker 1: dressed as angels. And this is apparently a much coveted

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Speaker 1: role for the children of Novelle. I was looking at

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Speaker 1: the website for this event and the following note appears.

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Speaker 1: This was in the translated version. Quote the waiting list

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Speaker 1: for these children is so long that it is advisable

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Speaker 1: to register before the birth. It's kind of like it

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Speaker 1: reminded me of kids getting into the best preschool. That's

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Speaker 1: exactly what I was thinking. So we will talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about all the things that Gertrude is the

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Speaker 1: patron saint of and then we'll wrap it up with

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Speaker 1: some listener mail. But before we do, we're going to

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Speaker 1: take one more break for a record from a sponsor. Hey,

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Speaker 1: so remember when we mentioned at the top of the

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Speaker 1: episode that St. Gertrude is the patron saint of cats Uh, Well,

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Speaker 1: according to one Catholic Saints info page. She's also the

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Speaker 1: patron saint of more than two dozen causes. She is

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Speaker 1: said to protect, among others, travelers, hospitals, gardeners, the poor, widows, innkeepers, prisoners, hospitals,

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Speaker 1: the mentally ill, and she protects against the fear of

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Speaker 1: mice and rats. Some of the has come with explanations

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Speaker 1: of sorts. Gertrude was known to take in travelers and

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Speaker 1: pilgrims uh like the Irish brothers who became part of

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Speaker 1: her religious family, and apparently small mice. Sculptures made of

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Speaker 1: or covered in precious metals have been left at shrines

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Speaker 1: to Gertrude. The mice represents souls and surgatory and many

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Speaker 1: depictions of her. She even has a little mouth on

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Speaker 1: her staff. Yeah, there are somewhere you'll also see little

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Speaker 1: mice or very cute versions of rats, kind of around

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Speaker 1: the hems of her garments, kind of scurrying up to her.

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Speaker 1: Uh and the cat thing though staves to have come

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Speaker 1: about in the late twentieth century, like in the nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 1: although it's precise origin is largely one of speculation, and

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Speaker 1: it could simply be that someone made the association between

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Speaker 1: cats and mice. Since she is featured with mice. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It could also be that she was conflated with another

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Speaker 1: folk figure that was associated with cats at the time.

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Speaker 1: One reference I saw mentioned uh. I don't remember the

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Speaker 1: figure's name, but it was a woman who was said

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Speaker 1: to ride a cat. And it could also just be

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Speaker 1: that someone like Gertrude of Novelle and they liked cats,

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Speaker 1: and they started referring to her as the patron scene

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Speaker 1: of felines, and it caught on. We don't know. That

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Speaker 1: is all speculative, it's not how it works, but it's

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties that she started being um um

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Speaker 1: reported in this way. It's like the patron saint of cats.

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Speaker 1: So that's the scoop. I thank your true to Novelle, who,

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Speaker 1: as it was written quote, lived in the flesh here

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Speaker 1: among mortals, and acted as a regent over the men

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Speaker 1: and women who lived as Christ's servants Under her authority.

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Speaker 1: She never forgot her perpetual interior life, nor relaxed her

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Speaker 1: standards of rectitude, nor her serious manner, nor her religious

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Speaker 1: discipline even for a moment. This is one of those

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Speaker 1: things where when I was doing the research, what I

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Speaker 1: really wished for and just doesn't seem to exist anywhere.

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Speaker 1: Is much about her personality, Like we know she was

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Speaker 1: kind of pilgrims. She was obviously very kind and very devoted,

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Speaker 1: but like, uh, you know, I like to know if

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Speaker 1: people like jokes? Are they silly? Are they? You don't

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Speaker 1: get a lot of that in her. In her biography.

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Speaker 1: It's a pretty basic like here's what happened, Here's when

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Speaker 1: she was called the god, Here's when the abbey was built.

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Speaker 1: She was very joyous about all of her religious stuff.

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Speaker 1: But there has to have been more to the story

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Speaker 1: than that. Ats um, Maybe not. I don't. It's pretty brief, really.

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Speaker 1: It shows up in a lot of Several of the

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Speaker 1: books that I reference in that will come up in

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Speaker 1: show notes are analysis books, but they all include that

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Speaker 1: official saint's biography in them, so it's not that long.

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Speaker 1: You can read it. You'll see what I mean. Seas

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Speaker 1: have some listener mail, I do. I have a lot.

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Speaker 1: This is kind of like a listener mail Smorgas board,

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Speaker 1: because we've gotten a lot of really good postcards lately.

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Speaker 1: Some I will read, some I will not um, some

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Speaker 1: I will just talk about. And then I have a

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Speaker 1: super special thank you for one of my favorite listener

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Speaker 1: mails of all time. Uh. So, first I will mention

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Speaker 1: we got a beautiful postcard from Justin which is a

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Speaker 1: Gustav climped piece and it's absolutely gorgeous. Justin, some of

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Speaker 1: your writing got a little bit obscured in the mail.

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Speaker 1: Uh the ink looks like it's neared a bit, so

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Speaker 1: I won't try to muddle through it. But it's absolutely

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Speaker 1: beautiful and thank you. I love Climp, so I appreciate it. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The next one we got is from our listeners out

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Speaker 1: Listen and Zoe and it says, Hi, Holly and Tracy,

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Speaker 1: my best friend and I are backpacking through Asia for

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Speaker 1: two months. We started listening to the podcast together. I

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Speaker 1: finished the whole archive while traveling. Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: our companions on this adventure. While in Cambodia, we heard

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Speaker 1: about the Khmer Rouge and I know it's a sad

426
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: and depressing topic, but if you could do a show

427
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: on them, it would help us understand uh where we

428
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: were and the culture. Thanks Allison and Zoe, and they

429
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 1: sent us a beautiful, beautiful picture from Indonesia of Mount Johnny,

430
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 1: which I may or may not be mispronouncing but it's lovely.

431
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, and thank you for taking us

432
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 1: on your travels. I wish I were actually with you. Uh.

433
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: Probably my favorite postcard of the month goes to this

434
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: next one. It is from our listener Annie, and she says,

435
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 1: high ladies, the women in my family and I spent

436
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: Mother's Day at the the Young Museum in San Francisco

437
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: visiting the Oscar de Laurenta exhibits. Holly especially would have

438
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: literally swooned over some of these pieces. Lovely, lovely things,

439
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: just as he meant them to be. Anyway, I've been

440
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 1: listening for a few years now and just wanted to

441
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 1: say thanks for making my commutes infinitely more pleasant. To

442
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: keep up the great work. Thank you, Annie. This postcard

443
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: is gorgeous. You're right, I would have swooned. I'm swooning

444
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 1: just looking at it. And it even got damaged in

445
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 1: the mail and has a big smear on it. I

446
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 1: still think it's gorgeous. Our last postcard is uh from

447
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: a number of people, but mostly Grace, and it says,

448
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: and it's written kind of small, but I want to

449
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: read it because it's very cool. She says, Hello, Holly

450
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 1: and Tracy, I love the podcast, and I've been listening

451
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: while going through my dear grandmother's house. I found all

452
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 1: sorts of treasures, including a stack of her father's vintage postcards,

453
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: which I thought you might enjoy. My grandmother was born

454
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: in nine in the Kellogg Sanitarium at Battle Greek, Michigan.

455
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: Previous podcast subject Uh. Then there's a little blur that

456
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: the postal markings obscured. Uh. And she says this part

457
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 1: postcard is courtesy of Jesse B. Huggett, Alita Smith and

458
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: me Grace, And it is a vintage postcard of women

459
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: water skiing in the Pyramid. I'm holding it up so

460
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: Tracy can see it. What It's really cool. It's a

461
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: beautiful postcard. So thank you, thank you, thank you, Grace.

462
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: I that's like the kind of thing that I would

463
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: be selfish and find it and be like, no, I'm

464
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 1: never mailing this, but she put it right in the mail.

465
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: It's uh. You could not see my face while you

466
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 1: were reading because you were reading. But when she got

467
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 1: to the part about being born in uh in the

468
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: Battle Creek Sanitarium, like, my eyes got really big. And

469
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,719
Speaker 1: my last listener mail is actually a super thank you,

470
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: so everybody that listens to the podcast knows I sew

471
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: and that solid that. I don't know if I've ever

472
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 1: talked about it, but sometimes I like to design my

473
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: own fabric because I just like to. And so I

474
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: got this awesome order from Spoonflower recently. That's a custom

475
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: fabric printing service, and with the my order of fabric

476
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: was a beautiful note from one of their employees who

477
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 1: listens to the podcast. So it is a not standard

478
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: way that people could reach out to us, but it

479
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: was absolutely sweet and beautiful and it made the whole

480
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 1: day just fantastic. In addition to getting cool fabric, I

481
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: also got a beautiful letter from Amanda, So thank you

482
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: so much, Amanda, because it made my day. So that's

483
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: the scoop I feel like to write to us. I

484
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: know it was awesome. I literally I am Tracy was like,

485
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is employed just ope me, I

486
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,239
Speaker 1: know what It's amazing. Well, and I think you and

487
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: I both have um like weird random encounters something I

488
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: don't mean weird in a bad way at all, but

489
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 1: will be out of expected shopping or doing something and

490
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 1: a person will kind of go, hi, are are you

491
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: on a podcast? It's it's always delightful. Of the time,

492
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 1: it's delightful, like if I'm at the laundromat folding my underwear,

493
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: maybe not just then, well, I've had it happened a

494
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: couple of times during races, like during when I look

495
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: horrifying and really like a train wreck, someone will sidle

496
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: up next to me and be like, I love the podcast,

497
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 1: Like thanks, don't laughing. Last week I went to the

498
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: farmers market and I was wearing I don't remember what

499
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: I was wearing. I was definitely wearing the kind of

500
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: outfit that if we were like Hollywood famous people instead

501
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: of just like podcasters, like the kind of outfit that

502
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: winds up in the celebrity tabloid magazine about look how

503
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: horrible this person looks when they're not on set. Um.

504
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: And I was at the farmer's market and somebody, uh

505
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,239
Speaker 1: from a mushroom farm that was selling uh, you know,

506
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: wonderful delicious mushrooms was like, I don't recognize your face,

507
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: but I recognize your voice. And I was like, I

508
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: wish I had put any care and to what I

509
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: had on right now, I which I had packaged the

510
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 1: voice with with more masscap um. Thank you to everybody

511
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: that says high. It's always a delight. Even when I

512
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: look totally gross, I still feel bad. I mentioned it

513
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: on Facebook. There was a girl that talked to me

514
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: in one of the security lines in Disneyland after the

515
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: half and the security line had taken forever and it

516
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: was a little bit frantic at that point, and so

517
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: I kind of said hi to her, and I had

518
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: just had a bad run. I was crabby, and I

519
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 1: felt bad because I meant to loop back and talked

520
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: to her more friendly and like we completely I lost

521
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: her in the crowd. So I hope you didn't walk

522
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: away going ma'am, Holly Fry, it's crabby. Uh. If you

523
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: would like to write to us about whether or not

524
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 1: I'm crabby, or if you've had an encounter with us

525
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 1: out in the world, you can do that at History

526
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: Podcast at how stof works dot com. We're also at

527
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: Facebook dot com, slash misst in history on Twitter at

528
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: mist in history, at pinterest dot com, slash mist in

529
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: history at misston history dot tumbler dot com. We're on

530
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: Instagram at mist in history, where I will try to

531
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: put pictures of the postcards that I mentioned today. Uh,

532
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: and You can also go to our parents site, which

533
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,959
Speaker 1: is how stuff Works dot com. You can research almost

534
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: anything your heart desires. We have a plethora of content

535
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: for you to explore, so almost anything you put in

536
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: you're gonna get something interesting back. You can also visit

537
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: me and Tracy at missed in History dot com, where

538
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: we have the show notes for every episode since we

539
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: have been on the show together, as well as an

540
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: archive of every episode of all time, and occasional other

541
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: goodies like an awesome f a U Tracy put together

542
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: about all of the things people frequently ask us. That

543
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: includes our our mailing address, which, rather than trying to

544
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: rattle that off, if you google stuff you missed in

545
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: History class contact, you will find all the ways to

546
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: contact us, including our mailing address. Yes, so if you

547
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: want to send us groovy postcards, that is how to

548
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: find the address. So we encourage you come and visit

549
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: us at houst works dot com and missed in History

550
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics.

551
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: Because it has to works, dot car