Speaker 1: Guess what will what's that man go? So I was
Speaker 1: telling my kids about how my family used to go
Speaker 1: on really long car trips when I was young, Like
Speaker 1: my mom and dad loved piling us up in the
Speaker 1: car and just driving to really cool places. And occasionally
Speaker 1: there was an excuse for it, right, like once they
Speaker 1: drove us from New Jersey all the way to Quebec City,
Speaker 1: just so my dog could drink some holy water, just
Speaker 1: so your dog could drink. Yeah, as I'm saying this
Speaker 1: out loud, I realized it makes less and less sense.
Speaker 1: But our dog was ill at the time, and we'd
Speaker 1: adopted him as a pop from this Catholic family, and
Speaker 1: even though we aren't Catholic, my mom decided she wanted
Speaker 1: to honor his religious traditions. So we drove all the
Speaker 1: way up to sant and de Properate, which is this
Speaker 1: stunning basilica in Quebec City where a lot of healing
Speaker 1: miracles tend to happen, and we let him laugh up
Speaker 1: some holy water there. Your mom is the best. What
Speaker 1: a great idea, But I do have to ask did
Speaker 1: it work? And did your dog live? Yeah? Well, we
Speaker 1: all fell in love with Quebec, so that part worked
Speaker 1: and uh and he did live for a few more years.
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure whether that was St Anne's doing
Speaker 1: or whether his dedication was doing the heavy lifting, but
Speaker 1: you know, it did make me curious about the miracles
Speaker 1: that have taken place there, And when I started reading online,
Speaker 1: it sent me down this massive Catholic rabbit hole of
Speaker 1: like saints and pilgrimages. And after a few hours, I
Speaker 1: can't tell you how many tabs I had opened about
Speaker 1: like the Vatican's official cricket team and how they've received
Speaker 1: letters from like both Jefferson Davis and Abe Lincoln. Like
Speaker 1: I realized we had to do an episode on like
Speaker 1: the Vatican and all the secrets hiding there. So that's
Speaker 1: what today's episode is all about. Why don't we dig in?
Speaker 1: Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson and as
Speaker 1: always I'm joined by my good friend man Guesh Ticketer,
Speaker 1: and today we're talking about the secrets of the Vatican. Now,
Speaker 1: this is a topic that Mango and one of our
Speaker 1: brilliant researchers, Nolan Brown, have been talking about for a
Speaker 1: few weeks. And so after all that research, Mango, I've
Speaker 1: got several questions for you, But why don't we start
Speaker 1: out with this one? Have you ever actually been to
Speaker 1: the Vatican. That's a pretty easy one. I have actually
Speaker 1: way back when I was in seventh grade, and I
Speaker 1: was completely fascinated on my tour there. But you know
Speaker 1: what's funny was that when I was researching today's episode,
Speaker 1: I decided to look up trip Advisor just to see
Speaker 1: what other people thought and what their experiences were. And
Speaker 1: one of the things I loved reading was all these
Speaker 1: one star reviews of the place. So I just have
Speaker 1: to read a few tears go for it. So this
Speaker 1: one's titled Vending Machines. The vending machine worked very well.
Speaker 1: It's worrying when this is the first thing you start
Speaker 1: a review with. The Vatican is by far the most
Speaker 1: boring place I have visible. One star. And here's another,
Speaker 1: highly recommend you realize what you're getting into before booking
Speaker 1: a tour. It's a lot of broken English from guides
Speaker 1: and a lot of paintings in art one star. What
Speaker 1: is people expect? And how did this become a hobby
Speaker 1: of ours where we like going to different places and
Speaker 1: just eating the one star reviews and trip Advisor. I
Speaker 1: remember we were looking at once, for uh, I think
Speaker 1: it was Yellowstone, and one of them about Yellowstone was
Speaker 1: just a bigger central park but with bears. But we're
Speaker 1: obviously coming from a very controversial angle that there's plenty
Speaker 1: to see at the Vatican. But I do want to
Speaker 1: clarify for our listeners up front. I know there's a
Speaker 1: lot of history on vatty leagues and sex scandals and whatnot,
Speaker 1: and of course there's plenty of discussion around all of
Speaker 1: those things, but today's show is really just about the
Speaker 1: surprising things we didn't realize about Vatican City and the
Speaker 1: Vatican both and how it functions, but also what's hiding
Speaker 1: behind those walls. Yeah, we're not trying to knock religion
Speaker 1: or delve into controversy. We just want to dig into
Speaker 1: the fascinating history. All right, Well let's start with that. Then.
Speaker 1: Why why do you think it's such a fascinating place
Speaker 1: for us? Well, for me, part of it's that the
Speaker 1: Church has played this outsized role in history. I mean
Speaker 1: you think about the Crusades and the early explorers and
Speaker 1: people like Mendel and Copernicus. I mean, the Catholic Church
Speaker 1: is just this constant, recurring character in our history. Books,
Speaker 1: but at the same time, there's so much that's cloaked
Speaker 1: in mystery, and as an outsider's just completely unnoble when
Speaker 1: it comes to the rituals of the church. What do
Speaker 1: you mean by that, Well, I feel like you read
Speaker 1: these tiny tidbits and they seem totally impossible but also
Speaker 1: maybe true. Like I read this widely circulated story that
Speaker 1: when the pope passes away, the physician will tap him
Speaker 1: on the forehead three times with a special silver hammer,
Speaker 1: just to make sure he's actually dead. That does sound
Speaker 1: maybe made up, right, And that's what I thought too.
Speaker 1: It's like too good to be true. But also I'm
Speaker 1: not a priest. I don't know, so I looked it
Speaker 1: up on snopes and they can't tell whether it's true either.
Speaker 1: I mean, there actually is a tiny silver death hammer,
Speaker 1: and it sits in waiting at the Vatican, and once
Speaker 1: the Pope passes away, it actually does have the special
Speaker 1: use like first to Chamberlain will call out the deceased
Speaker 1: pope's name three times, which sounds a little like the
Speaker 1: forehead thing, right, And if the Pope doesn't respond, the
Speaker 1: hammers used to break the seal on the pope's ring
Speaker 1: and only then is the room cordoned off, and that's
Speaker 1: when they actually start ranging for the funeral. Well, with
Speaker 1: all that detail, I mean, I guess it sounds like
Speaker 1: there's some truth there. Yeah, according to Snopes, there probably
Speaker 1: was a time when the hammer was used to you know,
Speaker 1: double check that the pope was dead, back when people
Speaker 1: are accidentally buried alive. But you know, it's a long
Speaker 1: time since then. Still, I think you can see what
Speaker 1: I mean, right, Like, there's so much old ceremony and
Speaker 1: tradition that isn't really public knowledge. That makes it easy
Speaker 1: for someone like, you know, a writer like Dan Brown
Speaker 1: right at the edge of these myths and make all
Speaker 1: these things feel plausible. Well, and there's so many things
Speaker 1: like that. I remember before we even talking about this episode,
Speaker 1: reading some story about those pope chairs with the holes
Speaker 1: in them. Did yeah, the Holy chairs? All right, So
Speaker 1: for our listeners that don't know about these, these are
Speaker 1: these strange chairs. Was holes at the center of the seat,
Speaker 1: and there's this, I guess, kind of a dubious origin
Speaker 1: story that accompanies them. So the legend goes back to
Speaker 1: whether or not there was a female pope at one point,
Speaker 1: and supposedly there was this very astute pope named John
Speaker 1: who turned out to be a Jane. And the story
Speaker 1: goes that, you know, she was pregnant and giving birth
Speaker 1: during a parade, and then of course because of this,
Speaker 1: she was stoned to death when everybody realized she was
Speaker 1: a woman. And after that happened, the church made future
Speaker 1: pope sit in a chair with a hole in it, so,
Speaker 1: you know, so that a physician could reach through the
Speaker 1: bottom and verify the pope's manhood. How weird is this
Speaker 1: so outrageous? Like why would you need a chair for that? Wait? Wait,
Speaker 1: how else would you do a physical? But you see
Speaker 1: this story everywhere. I saw one on Scientific American about
Speaker 1: Pope Benedict the third and they were doing a check
Speaker 1: on him and apparently they all said, thanks be to God.
Speaker 1: After the check you to verify that he had testicles.
Speaker 1: And you know, there's some speculation from historians that maybe
Speaker 1: the chair was used to ensure a pope hadn't been castrated.
Speaker 1: But it's it's honestly all very murky. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: it's all kind of like that silver hammer, right, like
Speaker 1: these chairs actually do exist. Yeah, well that you know,
Speaker 1: there's plenty of tradition and history that we don't know.
Speaker 1: But why don't we start with some of the things
Speaker 1: that we do. You know, after all your research, I
Speaker 1: think maybe you should give us a little bit of
Speaker 1: background on the Vatican. Yeah, yeah, I can definitely do that. Actually,
Speaker 1: let me just pull up in my notes so on aue.
Speaker 1: The Vatican City is like the spiritual and governing center
Speaker 1: of the Roman Catholic Church. And originally the land was
Speaker 1: actually this Marshy area and then apparently it turned into
Speaker 1: the CD district. But by Colligula's time in thirty seven
Speaker 1: a d. It had totally been gentrified, like there are
Speaker 1: nice houses and gardens and whatnot. And today, like the
Speaker 1: area is pretty much built around St. Peter's tomb because
Speaker 1: that's the area where he was martyred. Vatican spans, if
Speaker 1: you think about it, like about a hundred acres or so,
Speaker 1: and it's considered a monarchy with about a thousand people
Speaker 1: living there. And the pope is at the top of
Speaker 1: that obviously, but something I would not have thought about before.
Speaker 1: But there's no vice pope, right, Yeah, he's he's kind
Speaker 1: of alone at the top. I mean, he delegates duties
Speaker 1: to various people and councils. But all that stuff you
Speaker 1: think about with the three branches of government, like legislative, judicial, executive, like,
Speaker 1: all of that sits with him. Plus he's got all
Speaker 1: the spiritual things to deal with. It's a ton of responsibility.
Speaker 1: And the funny thing is there's no turning the job
Speaker 1: down when you're nominated, Like you can't say no to God.
Speaker 1: Well that's true, but I have read seven real times
Speaker 1: about all these cardinals that don't want the job that
Speaker 1: get really stressed out thinking about it just because of
Speaker 1: all of the international responsibility that that goes with the job. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, like you've got to deal with the church's
Speaker 1: legal stuff and the public relations. All that falls on
Speaker 1: your shoulders and it can feel overwhelming. But you know
Speaker 1: what's funny is the room the new pope is scored
Speaker 1: to after he's just been elected. It actually has a nickname.
Speaker 1: It's called the Room of Tears. Yeah, it's a big job,
Speaker 1: and most popes need some time to compose themselves and
Speaker 1: like deal with the motion after they've been nominated. And
Speaker 1: here's something else about that room. Because no one knows
Speaker 1: who the next pope is going to be, The tailors
Speaker 1: actually have three papal ropes waiting. There's a small, medium
Speaker 1: and large. I never really thought about it, but I
Speaker 1: guess I just kind of assumed it was a one
Speaker 1: fits all kind of thing. But you know, you're right,
Speaker 1: no one knows who's going to be elected. There's actually
Speaker 1: this great story about Pope Fabian, who wasn't even a
Speaker 1: candidate for the pope, but a dove landed on his
Speaker 1: shoulder during the election, and so he got this unanimous
Speaker 1: vote to be pope. And you know, I'll have some
Speaker 1: questions for you out elections and in just a bit. Yeah, good,
Speaker 1: because I really want to talk about like how they
Speaker 1: send up black smoke and white smoke, and like when
Speaker 1: they make a decision, it's kind of amazing. Yeah all right, Well, well,
Speaker 1: let's back up for just a second and talk about
Speaker 1: how Vatican City became its own sovereign state. Obviously we
Speaker 1: know when an impact the Roman Catholic Church had on history,
Speaker 1: but give me a quick sense of why there are
Speaker 1: these hundred acres carved out for it. Yeah, so those
Speaker 1: hundred acres are a little fuzzy. I mean, there's a
Speaker 1: McDonald's just outside the Vatican border that's actually on Vatican property,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of blurry. Actually here you can order
Speaker 1: a new Tela burger and fries in this Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: kind of an Italy specific thing. And they also don't
Speaker 1: allow mixed spaghetti there. That's only a Filipino thing. Okay,
Speaker 1: But you know you're right about the Vatican size. I mean,
Speaker 1: for a while, and we're talking way back in the
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, the Pope ruled over a number of papal
Speaker 1: states in the region. But when Italy unified as a
Speaker 1: country in late eighteen hundreds, it's seized up all the
Speaker 1: Vatican's land. And then this really really strange thing happened, right,
Speaker 1: and it was completely new to me. Apparently Italy and
Speaker 1: the Vatican actually had a cold war. Like I always
Speaker 1: assumed Italy and the Vatican had this super cozy relationship.
Speaker 1: But for about sixty years, the Pope refused to acknowledge
Speaker 1: Italy as a country or even going to the balcony
Speaker 1: to bless people, especially if he thought like Italians were
Speaker 1: in the square. And even more than that, the Pope
Speaker 1: refused to leave the Vatican. Like Pope Pius the Ninth
Speaker 1: referred to himself as a prisoner of the grounds, but
Speaker 1: here's the craziest part of the story. The person who
Speaker 1: actually brokered the peace is Benito Mussolini. Yeah, he delivered
Speaker 1: a pack that recognized the Vatican as sovereign, and in
Speaker 1: the deal, Italy brought back all the land it had
Speaker 1: taken for about ninety million dollars or about a billion
Speaker 1: dollars in today's money. Well, and obviously Italy and the
Speaker 1: Vatican have a great relationship. Now. I think there's an
Speaker 1: arrangement where something like eight percent of Italian income taxes
Speaker 1: can be diverted to the Catholic Church if a citizen
Speaker 1: chooses them, and any criminals who were sentenced by the
Speaker 1: Vatican court, they get moved to an Italian prison. And
Speaker 1: if a person loses their Vatican citizenship, which ends when
Speaker 1: your job ends there, and if they don't have a
Speaker 1: country to go to, they become an Italian citizen by default,
Speaker 1: which has to be the weirdest way to get a citizenship. Well.
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting though, that while that one billion
Speaker 1: dollar amount we were talking about sounds huge, and you
Speaker 1: think about all the artwork and all the other things
Speaker 1: that are in the Vatican, all the treasure the Vatican
Speaker 1: isn't exactly swimming and wealth. The annual operating budget is
Speaker 1: about three hundred million dollars that comes in from ties,
Speaker 1: but also museum tickets and printing services and all the
Speaker 1: souvenirs and those kinds of things. But I think about
Speaker 1: a place like Harvard, the university's annual budget is something
Speaker 1: like ten times that, at about three point seven billion.
Speaker 1: It kind of makes the Vaticans proceeds, you know, feel
Speaker 1: almost shoe string. Yeah. And while the Vatican could easily
Speaker 1: put some of that fancy artwork up on Craigslist to
Speaker 1: get some like quick cash, the Vatican has zero intention
Speaker 1: of selling anything. As Cardinal Caprio, the budget office once said,
Speaker 1: all the artwork belongs to humanity, and the Vatican books
Speaker 1: reflect that. In their accounts. All these billions of dollars
Speaker 1: of artwork were assigned a value of one lira, which
Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of the Academy Awards and how
Speaker 1: actors actually have to sign a contract when they win
Speaker 1: an Oscar, Like if they or their heirs want to
Speaker 1: sell the trophy, the most they can sell it for
Speaker 1: as a dollar, and they have to offer it to
Speaker 1: the Academy first, alright, But in numbers a dollar was
Speaker 1: like two thousand lira, which means if you wanted a
Speaker 1: fair trade, that'd be like trading a finger of an
Speaker 1: Oscar for the Sistine Chapels, the Pietas, all the Pope's tiaras,
Speaker 1: plus all the other treasures of the Vatican. It sounds
Speaker 1: like a good deal. So I'd forgotten about the Pope's tiaras.
Speaker 1: By the way, So why don't we talk about the
Speaker 1: Pope's fashion after a little brick? Welcome back to part
Speaker 1: time genius, now, Mango. I know we both wanted to
Speaker 1: talk the Pope's fashion, and we've all so promised to
Speaker 1: talk elections. I know, we promised so much stuff. Plus
Speaker 1: I don't think we've given enough details. You have to
Speaker 1: make those one star reviewers happy. Probably not well. I
Speaker 1: was going to suggest the super quick rundown of the
Speaker 1: government again. You you guys have done all this research
Speaker 1: on this. So here's what I want to do. I'll
Speaker 1: give you a department and you tell me a fact
Speaker 1: that you guys have pulled up. That sound good? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I can use my notes, right all right, Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're allowed to, but you have to close your eyes,
Speaker 1: all right, Okay, the fire department so this is easy. Like,
Speaker 1: I love that their fire trucks kind of look like
Speaker 1: short busses. All right, what about the justice system. There's
Speaker 1: only one judge, got no like an actual judge, but
Speaker 1: he has a lot of works. Well have I never
Speaker 1: heard about a judge? That's that's so interesting? Okay, how
Speaker 1: about how about treasury? Well there's a coin and stamp department,
Speaker 1: but unlike the pope, they're not infallible. In two thou thirteen,
Speaker 1: they issued a coin that mistakenly spelled Jesus as Less,
Speaker 1: which instantly boosted the coin's value, and luckily they only
Speaker 1: sold four before they discus that those things are worth
Speaker 1: so much if they've only sold four of them. Okay,
Speaker 1: you must have read about this because I just thought
Speaker 1: it was interesting to think about the space program. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you think with their history with early astronomers that
Speaker 1: the Church wasn't interested in telescopes, but they've actually invested
Speaker 1: in them since the fifteen hundreds and even today. They
Speaker 1: have this advanced Vatican telescope at Mount Graham in Arizona,
Speaker 1: which was built in the nineteen nineties. Like it's really
Speaker 1: an area of interest. So the Vatican has a telescope
Speaker 1: in Arizona. Yeah, because they're interested in the heavens. Oh
Speaker 1: that's interesting. All right. What about the military, Yeah, so, uh,
Speaker 1: this is easy too. Well, they've they've been using a
Speaker 1: small core of the Swiss Guard since the fourteen hundreds,
Speaker 1: when the Swiss were considered the best mercenaries in the world.
Speaker 1: And uh, and they don't actually do a lot of fighting,
Speaker 1: like obviously they're they're just there for ceremonial purposes. They
Speaker 1: were this like really flamboyant guard, and they do wear
Speaker 1: plain clothes when they've got duty to protect the pontiff.
Speaker 1: But it's highly selective, like they're only a hundred fifty
Speaker 1: and you've got to be over five eight and Catholic
Speaker 1: and mail and unmarried. There are lots of requirements. Yeah, alright,
Speaker 1: how about athletics. The Vatican actually has a soccer team
Speaker 1: and a cricket team. And the cricket team is really
Speaker 1: funny because they've they've only played a few matches, but
Speaker 1: they did beat a traveling Dutch team called the Fellowship
Speaker 1: of Fairly Odd Places. Fellowship Fairly Odd Places. That doesn't
Speaker 1: sound like it would be a good cricket team. Is
Speaker 1: this is this really a thing? I know I want
Speaker 1: the jersey, but that's actually the name. They play like
Speaker 1: old school cricket in places where cricket isn't like traditionally played,
Speaker 1: so like Iceland or the Vatican and Dora. But the
Speaker 1: Vatican actually trounced them. Oh wow, that's pretty cool. Alright.
Speaker 1: How about transportation? Okay, so I love this one. There's
Speaker 1: a train that comes through and there's only one station,
Speaker 1: like it just comes in and then it backs out,
Speaker 1: and it's mostly for freight. I mean, sometimes a dignitary
Speaker 1: will get on it. But you know, if you're talking
Speaker 1: about like the Pope's transportation, he's got this fleet of cars,
Speaker 1: like amazing old fancy cars. But because Francis doesn't love
Speaker 1: fancy things, like he mostly uses his forward focus and
Speaker 1: that's his popemobile, and sometimes he pleased with guards to
Speaker 1: let him take the city bus. He actually kind of
Speaker 1: sounds like the teenager who's been embarrassed about being driven
Speaker 1: around by his parents. But all right, so what about
Speaker 1: the Department of Exorcisms? Was something I saw? Oh actually,
Speaker 1: I've got one more fact about transport that I want
Speaker 1: to say. So this is top secret and off limits,
Speaker 1: but there's one hollow wall that can be used to
Speaker 1: help the pope fleet in case the city has ever sacked,
Speaker 1: and it's been used historically and it runs from the
Speaker 1: papal apartments to a castle and possibly to other places. Oh.
Speaker 1: I thought maybe you were just trying to get around
Speaker 1: to get the department of exorcisms here while looking for
Speaker 1: a fact. But that's actually really interesting. Okay, but you
Speaker 1: still have to do exorcism. Yeah, so you actually hear
Speaker 1: less about exorcisms now, but Benedict was obsessed with them,
Speaker 1: and the Vatican's chief exorcist, this guy, Father Gabriel m R.
Speaker 1: He claimed to have performed twenty thousand exorcisms between two
Speaker 1: thousand and two thousand ten. Also, you'll never guess his
Speaker 1: favorite movie, The Exorcist. Actually, I think I could have
Speaker 1: guessed that once you said that. All right, I think
Speaker 1: I've got one more. How about banking? And so this
Speaker 1: one we've known for a long time, and it's like
Speaker 1: my favorite fact. The Vatican has the world's only a
Speaker 1: t M that operates in Latin. That is pretty awesome.
Speaker 1: All right. So there's certainly a lot for the pope
Speaker 1: to think about. But there's one more thing on the
Speaker 1: Pope's mind. And that's fashion. So before Frances tried to
Speaker 1: get out of wearing fancy duds and going casual, pope
Speaker 1: fashion was actually kind of a thing. Yeah, it really was.
Speaker 1: And Benedict was kind of a clothes horse. I mean
Speaker 1: John Paul the second was known for wearing Doc Martin's
Speaker 1: and brown ones. Oh yeah, I remember seeing that he
Speaker 1: and the Doali Lama actually traded tips on footwear and
Speaker 1: both wore Doc Martin's for their comfort. Yeah, it's funny,
Speaker 1: like I think of Doc Martin's is such a punk
Speaker 1: brand and nothing to do with religion. But Benedict, he
Speaker 1: wouldn't be caught deaden those popes in the olden days
Speaker 1: they used to wear red, but he brought the style
Speaker 1: back of wearing a red slippers and also the cave
Speaker 1: with an ermane for In fact, he was so fashionable
Speaker 1: that Donna Tella Versacci actually designed a line using him
Speaker 1: his inspiration. Well, and I know the Church was sensitive
Speaker 1: about Benedict being seen as as two fans. Yeah, when
Speaker 1: a reporter commented on his red Gucci slippers, the Vatican
Speaker 1: responded by saying that Benedict isn't concerned with labels. And
Speaker 1: here's the statement he said he couldn't spot a Gucci
Speaker 1: from a smoochy. I'm not sure I could either. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not that fashionable. Any other innovations I know, Pope
Speaker 1: John Paul the Second War rainbow vestments once, Yeah, which
Speaker 1: was a little disastrous because this artist convinced him that
Speaker 1: the rainbow represented God's promise to Noah that there'd be
Speaker 1: all this peace after the rainstorm. But when the artist
Speaker 1: later suggested that maybe it was a gesture of goodwill
Speaker 1: to the LGBT community, the Vatican responded that no one
Speaker 1: has a copyright on rainbows. And what about those ceremonial tiaras,
Speaker 1: they're they're so ornate. Yeah, Well, the only person I
Speaker 1: could find who was truly envious of the trs was Napoleon. Like,
Speaker 1: apparently the crown wears about seven pounds, but when he
Speaker 1: designed one and gifted it to a pope, and he
Speaker 1: had the thought in the back of his mind that
Speaker 1: one day he might like take power, he constructed a
Speaker 1: ten pound t r I know, which is so Napoleon.
Speaker 1: That's like a bowling ball on your head. Crazy. But
Speaker 1: background is actually also in the rotation, and they are
Speaker 1: often warned during important events like you know during the
Speaker 1: papal coronation. All right, well that brings us back to
Speaker 1: the election of the pope, as we promised we would
Speaker 1: get to. I do know there's a council and they
Speaker 1: deliberate forever and they decide I think under the Sistine Chapel.
Speaker 1: But tell us a little bit about the process. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's kind of amazing. First off, even if you
Speaker 1: bought tickets to the Sistine Chapel, like to go on
Speaker 1: a tour, everything closes down for the election, so you're
Speaker 1: out of luck. But that's where the Council of Cardinals meets.
Speaker 1: They do a morning mass, and they take an oath
Speaker 1: of secrecy, and then they vote with paper ballots and
Speaker 1: they deliberate and it's all super quiet. Well, and that's
Speaker 1: for good reason, because I do remember reading that King's
Speaker 1: used to have the right to veto the decision of
Speaker 1: who became pope, and so they try to influence these elections,
Speaker 1: and so the secrecy is really to protect you know,
Speaker 1: the institution. Yeah, that's right. And in fact, you can
Speaker 1: actually be excommunicated if you leave any details. It's a
Speaker 1: little like being on jury duty, Like you can't tweet
Speaker 1: or read the paper or make any phone calls. And
Speaker 1: to prevent leaks, the Vatican actually brings in porta potties.
Speaker 1: I mean there's no I mean they're easy to access,
Speaker 1: like bathrooms one floor down, but no one's allowed to leave. Wow.
Speaker 1: When it can take days to do this, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is why they send up those smoke signals. That's
Speaker 1: to communicate to the public. When the signal is white,
Speaker 1: they're just burning ballots, and when it's black, they used
Speaker 1: to add straw, but now they add chemicals. I also
Speaker 1: read that there's a second furnace now too, and I
Speaker 1: didn't really understand that, but I guess sometimes the smoke
Speaker 1: would come out gray and people would be all confused
Speaker 1: start asking questions, so they added a second furnace to
Speaker 1: make sure the smoke comes out the right color. Now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So this is the weirdest thing to me, and that's
Speaker 1: that at the end of this massive process, the pope
Speaker 1: isn't even really declared pope like his official title is.
Speaker 1: I'm going to read this Bishop of Rome, Vicar of
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, successor of the Prince of the Apostle, el
Speaker 1: Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop
Speaker 1: and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the State
Speaker 1: of the Vatican City, Servant, sorry, servant of the Servants
Speaker 1: of God. You've done. He's got eight titles and none
Speaker 1: of them are the Pope, and apparently that comes from
Speaker 1: people calling him like the Holy Father or sank to Papa. Also,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember this, but I remember
Speaker 1: being really tickled when I saw this March Madness style
Speaker 1: bracket for popes. Like this was back when Benedict was
Speaker 1: being elected, and I had no idea that betting on
Speaker 1: the pope was a thing, Like it's been a thing
Speaker 1: since the sixteen hundreds. Apparently the Italian market just goes
Speaker 1: crazy for it. Yeah, the Irish sights are all over
Speaker 1: it too, I guess not not surprisingly, if you put
Speaker 1: your money on Francis, you would have made twenty five
Speaker 1: to one, Yeah, which is a lot of money. But
Speaker 1: you know, all this talk of the pope and we
Speaker 1: still haven't gotten into some of the crazy things hiding
Speaker 1: in the Vatican archives. All right, Well, why don't we
Speaker 1: break for a quiz and then we'll dive right into
Speaker 1: those juicy stories. Our guest today is a best selling
Speaker 1: author and journalist. We got to know her pretty well
Speaker 1: in our years at Mental Floss, and because we're talking
Speaker 1: about secrets of the Vatican today, we wanted to have
Speaker 1: her on just because one of her many brilliant books
Speaker 1: is titled If Nune's Ruled the World. Ten Sisters on
Speaker 1: a Mission. Joe Piazza, Welcome to Part Time Genius. Thanks
Speaker 1: for having me. Yeah, of course. So, Joe, Uh, I
Speaker 1: know you started out as a gossap columnist, and I
Speaker 1: remember you telling me some incredible stories of like baking
Speaker 1: injuries to get into hospitals to chase down stories. And
Speaker 1: I want to know if you could share like a
Speaker 1: funny story or the lens you've gone to to get
Speaker 1: a story. I did, indeed. So I was a goss
Speaker 1: of commist for the New York Daily News back in
Speaker 1: the days when people still read newspapers. It was a
Speaker 1: really long time ago, and I was down in Florida
Speaker 1: covering the MTV Video Music Awards, and it was that
Speaker 1: the year that Should Night, the music Producer, got at
Speaker 1: one of these parties and I decided that I was
Speaker 1: going to crack this story wide open, that I was
Speaker 1: I was going to discover who shot Signite so I
Speaker 1: busted into the emergency room by faking appendicitis. I made
Speaker 1: it all the way. I made it all the way,
Speaker 1: and I was just young, early twentysomething reporter um trying
Speaker 1: to make a name for myself and busted into the
Speaker 1: emergency room, doubled over in in fill Paine and got
Speaker 1: so far as that they inserted an I V. And
Speaker 1: it turns out my big scoop was that Signite shot
Speaker 1: himself that the safety wasn't gun. Um, there wasn't some
Speaker 1: big East coast West coast rap war thing going on.
Speaker 1: It was. It was just some some idiot guy and
Speaker 1: some idiot girl who's been stuck in the e er
Speaker 1: with an I V in her arm and a bunch
Speaker 1: of doctors asking her about her stomach king. Um. But
Speaker 1: it was great. We did get that story and my
Speaker 1: my editors and my editors never sent me to a
Speaker 1: Video Music Awards over again, which I think was a
Speaker 1: blessing in the sguise. So how did you get out
Speaker 1: of this situation? You're you're there with the ivy in
Speaker 1: your arm, Like, what what happens next? I ripped, I
Speaker 1: ripped to help myself, and I snuck out of the hospital.
Speaker 1: I mean I think that. I think at that point
Speaker 1: I told myself that I was in a romantic comedy,
Speaker 1: um like, and I was like in a movie and
Speaker 1: had had this scripted, and so I was I was
Speaker 1: a calling I've got this, ripped the ivy out and
Speaker 1: just and just snuck out with a hospital bracelet on,
Speaker 1: you know, and those things are hard to get off.
Speaker 1: I think I had that thing on for like the
Speaker 1: next two days. It was kind of this badge of honor.
Speaker 1: But it was also pre smartphones and pre social media,
Speaker 1: so there was really like otherwise, if this happened now,
Speaker 1: people would be treating from that emergency. That's what they
Speaker 1: do when they see a celebrity in there. Um. But
Speaker 1: no one I still get to tell this story like
Speaker 1: word of mouth. I have no pictures. I would have
Speaker 1: video if this happened now. So I kind of cherished
Speaker 1: the story because it's something that only I can tell.
Speaker 1: I have no evidence. I have no proof I could
Speaker 1: be making it up. Well, we are going to get
Speaker 1: to the romantic comedy that is your life, bid, But
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask what made you go from being
Speaker 1: this incredible journalist to like studying and writing about nuns well,
Speaker 1: I was burnt out. I was. I blame Britney Spears
Speaker 1: actually um, and I tell I tried to explain this
Speaker 1: to the nuns several times and they're like, Brittney, what Brittney,
Speaker 1: And let me show you this video of her as
Speaker 1: a Catholic school girl. So it was it was during
Speaker 1: Britney spears big breakdown, and I was covering that, the
Speaker 1: one where she shaved her head and started attacking with
Speaker 1: orders with an umbrella, and I was covering that, and
Speaker 1: I was covering the two thousand and eight election and
Speaker 1: the Elliott Spitzer scandal all at the same time, and
Speaker 1: I was burning out on these terrible people. I was
Speaker 1: just exhaust spend by them. And so the Daily Is
Speaker 1: would pay for me to go back to school, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, what's what's the answer, doe to Britney Spears,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, it's religious studies. So I had the
Speaker 1: newspaper pay for me to get this masters and religious studies,
Speaker 1: and through that I started interviewing nuns from my final thesis.
Speaker 1: And I like to say that one nun leads to
Speaker 1: another nun like a gateway drug. And I just I
Speaker 1: fell into this rabbit hole of the world of nuns
Speaker 1: and was hooked right away because their stories just hadn't
Speaker 1: been told. I mean, the Vatican really kind of covers
Speaker 1: up everything that the nuns do, all of their good
Speaker 1: work there. It's it's funny. They're almost ashamed of all
Speaker 1: of the good things that the nuns are doing. And
Speaker 1: I spent about two years with with these Catholic nuns.
Speaker 1: I interviewed hundreds of them. But the stories, uh, that
Speaker 1: are in the book If Nun's Ruled the World, there's
Speaker 1: about ten of them, and they're just they're all these
Speaker 1: bad ass, cool minus women who changed their little corner
Speaker 1: of the world or the big corner of the world
Speaker 1: in some cases for for good, just because they wanted
Speaker 1: to do to make the world a better place. Well,
Speaker 1: what's what's one one of your favorite stories from the book? Um?
Speaker 1: I think my favorite story is about the Iron Nun.
Speaker 1: This one blows people away when I when I talked
Speaker 1: him about it. Um, Sister Madonna Boodher started running when
Speaker 1: she was in her forties and she's now in her
Speaker 1: late eighties and she's done more than forty seven iron
Speaker 1: Man races and they call her the Iron Nun. She's
Speaker 1: been since the book came out. She's actually been in
Speaker 1: a Nike commercial, and she's written, she's written her own
Speaker 1: her own book, and she's she's just this feisty little
Speaker 1: octogenarian who happens to run iron men, and she's absolutely incredible.
Speaker 1: People people fall madly in love with her on the
Speaker 1: race course because when people start to lag behind, she
Speaker 1: actually slows down. She cares less about her time that
Speaker 1: about helping everyone else on the race course. She slows
Speaker 1: down and sings with them and praise with them sometimes
Speaker 1: to try to help them get through the race, which
Speaker 1: is the opposite of everyone else who's doing an iron
Speaker 1: Man's probably like a subset of the most self obsessed
Speaker 1: people in the world, in the athletic world. And yeah,
Speaker 1: she's great. She's the one that got me running. I
Speaker 1: was I used to you know, smoke like a pack
Speaker 1: of cigarette today and she got me into running half marathon's.
Speaker 1: So yeah, she she's one of the one of the
Speaker 1: most inspiring sisters that's in the book. Now, you've you've
Speaker 1: just had a baby, but you've also recently written a
Speaker 1: book with your husband called How to Be Married? So
Speaker 1: what what made you take on this project? I did
Speaker 1: I did um, mostly because I had no idea how
Speaker 1: to be married. Uh. And my way of figuring, my
Speaker 1: way of figuring out the world is pretty much just
Speaker 1: a report on it and you know, then report back.
Speaker 1: So my poor husband is like he really, you're no
Speaker 1: idea what you're doing. And I'm like, no, no clue.
Speaker 1: So I was a travel editor at the time for Yahoo. Uh,
Speaker 1: God God blessed them, and they were sending me all
Speaker 1: over the world, and I figured, all right, what if
Speaker 1: I could crowdsource marriage advice from hundreds of people as
Speaker 1: as I'm going to these different countries and I was
Speaker 1: going to France and Kenya, Tanzania, India, Israel, and I
Speaker 1: did Like, I got Yahoo pretty much to foot the
Speaker 1: bill for me traveling all over and asking for marriage advice,
Speaker 1: and it ended up being really interesting. It came out
Speaker 1: in April, and since then I get emails from from
Speaker 1: women all of the time who were like, thank you,
Speaker 1: because everyone gives you advice about the wedding, about this
Speaker 1: one day where you have these tiny past appetizers and
Speaker 1: a band who looks like Mumford and sons and people
Speaker 1: are sitting on hay mails and you spend a lot
Speaker 1: of money, but no one talks about the next fifty
Speaker 1: years about the actual marriage, and this book talks about
Speaker 1: what happens with the actual marriage. So this was us
Speaker 1: figuring out how to be married on the fly, and
Speaker 1: it's going pretty well because we made a baby about
Speaker 1: four weeks ago. Congratulations. I love that we pulled you
Speaker 1: out of that to take a quiz with us. That's right,
Speaker 1: that's right. So speaking of quizzes, what what quiz do
Speaker 1: we have for Joe today? Mango? We're gonna play a
Speaker 1: game called where they celibate? All right, So here we go.
Speaker 1: I will reach is involved. We'll reach you a name,
Speaker 1: and you have to tell us whether the person was,
Speaker 1: in fact celibate. Here we go, alright. Number one Isaac Newton,
Speaker 1: the physicist and inventor of the cat flap. Isaac Newton
Speaker 1: celibate or not? I kind of want to say celibate.
Speaker 1: You're right. Well, while he was interested in the laws
Speaker 1: of motion, none of them had to do with the
Speaker 1: ocean's right, alright, One for one for Isaac excellent. Number
Speaker 1: two Florence Nightingale. Let's see, I feel like Clarence Nightingale
Speaker 1: really could have could have gotten a lot of tale
Speaker 1: out there. But I'm gonna say, but she you're not cellibrate.
Speaker 1: I'm going to not celibate. That would have been what
Speaker 1: I would have guessed as well. What's the answer, mango,
Speaker 1: she's cellibate? Um? Yeah, I mean all these patients fell
Speaker 1: in love with her, and she had countless marriage proposals.
Speaker 1: But but she decided to stay true, I guess, and
Speaker 1: she lived into pretty old age right at nine. Wow. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, here we go one out of two. Number
Speaker 1: three Tesla Nicola, Tesla Inventor and the Thomas Edison rival.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stay celibate, that's right, correct, all right? Maybe
Speaker 1: because of the heartbreak over the pigeon. We have all
Speaker 1: heard the pigeon story right where I fell in love
Speaker 1: with a pigeon. Alright, Well, you know that's that's the
Speaker 1: kind of thing you don't get over. That's very very true. Okay.
Speaker 1: Number four Laura Ingalls Wilder lad was not celibate, absolutely right. Okay.
Speaker 1: The last one a till of the hun it. You
Speaker 1: kind of want that to be the answer, but unfortunately
Speaker 1: it's not. I know, I wish for thinking, but he
Speaker 1: was not all it yet. Twelve Wives, twelve wives. Wow. Alright,
Speaker 1: so how is Joe done today? Mango? So Joe wh
Speaker 1: an excellent three for five and which entitles her to
Speaker 1: the big prize, which is our total admiration. Al right, congratulations,
Speaker 1: which is not a box of condom. But but thank
Speaker 1: you so much for being here, Joe. If if you're listening,
Speaker 1: go out and get How to Be Married or her
Speaker 1: other book, Fitness Junkie, which is on shelves now. Thanks
Speaker 1: for having me, guys. So maybe at the top of
Speaker 1: the show, we talked about the Vaticans one star reviews
Speaker 1: on Trip Advisory, and you were telling me how much
Speaker 1: awesomeness is at the Vatican. So why don't we prove
Speaker 1: it with some of our favorite things hiding behind the
Speaker 1: Vatican doors. Well, they're the obvious things, right, like the
Speaker 1: letter of Henry the Eighth sent with his request for
Speaker 1: an annulment, which obviously got rejected, and the Pope's letter
Speaker 1: to excommunicate Martin Luther. There's awesome historical stuff like that
Speaker 1: all stored there. But like I mentioned at the top,
Speaker 1: I had no idea what other sort of records were
Speaker 1: on file, Like there's a note Michael Angelo sent the
Speaker 1: Pope letting him know that the Vatican was three months
Speaker 1: behind on paying their guards and if they didn't puny
Speaker 1: up fast enough, there was all this talk of like
Speaker 1: the guards walking out on their job. Or this is
Speaker 1: letter from the Ojibway tribe in Ontario and it's written
Speaker 1: on bark and it comes from and just thanking the
Speaker 1: Pope for his help. But the details are really sweet,
Speaker 1: Like they addressed the Pope as the great master of prayer.
Speaker 1: He holds the place of Jesus. And while he was
Speaker 1: set in May, the date actually says where there is
Speaker 1: much grass in the month of the Flowers. Like I
Speaker 1: love that. That is pretty great. And there are also
Speaker 1: things like the letters from Lincoln and Jefferson Davis that
Speaker 1: you mentioned before during the Civil War, and they were
Speaker 1: each trying to get the pope support. But what's so
Speaker 1: strange about that is that neither of them was Catholic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the Pope's note back acknowledging Jefferson Davis and the Confederacy.
Speaker 1: It was touted as this big win, like the South
Speaker 1: treated as like this official documentation that it was its
Speaker 1: own nation. And I guess it was kind of obvious,
Speaker 1: but I didn't even think about the paper trail, Like
Speaker 1: there are all sorts of documents about the personal affairs
Speaker 1: of cardinals, both good and bad, from the twenties on,
Speaker 1: and hundreds of years of annulment papers. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: a ton of records to keep if you think about this,
Speaker 1: And there's something like fifty two miles of shelves there.
Speaker 1: So browsing is definitely prohibited. But the so called Secret
Speaker 1: Archives where all this stuff is housed, it it actually
Speaker 1: is open to scholars. Yeah. One funny thing about the
Speaker 1: Secret Archives is that it's actually this mistranslation and there's
Speaker 1: probably some fun stuff bari there. It actually translates more
Speaker 1: is the pope's personal archives. Okay, but I don't think
Speaker 1: just a bunch of historical records are going to impress
Speaker 1: our trip Advisor friends, So we might need some more
Speaker 1: off limits type things of what else you have for us.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I had all these like cute things
Speaker 1: lined up, Like Renaissance painters used to get bored with
Speaker 1: their motifs that they had to paint, so like, I know,
Speaker 1: there's one who had to paint all these lions, and
Speaker 1: he did this one line facing the other ways, sort
Speaker 1: of like playful and so there's this whole where's Waldo
Speaker 1: motif going on. So there's an erotic fresco that you
Speaker 1: need to hear about. All right, I think this might
Speaker 1: be the one. This might be what we're looking for. So,
Speaker 1: you know, there's all this talk about the Vatican having
Speaker 1: these giant stacks and like perverse art and and uh,
Speaker 1: most of that's completely bunk, it's all hogwash, but this
Speaker 1: one's actually true. So in fifteen sixteen, the painter Raphael
Speaker 1: was commissioned to decorate a cardinal's bathroom, and the cardinal
Speaker 1: one of this really like lusty sex scene filled with
Speaker 1: pagan creatures, and Raphael got really into it. It's like
Speaker 1: totally in a classical style, but he goes crazy. It's
Speaker 1: supposedly done like a graphic novel, and they're like naked
Speaker 1: nymphs and sadder's and like outrageous sex scenes. There's a
Speaker 1: goddess looking in a mirror while she's wrapped in a
Speaker 1: guy's legs. It's it's really nuts. But over the years
Speaker 1: there's been so much outrage about it that it's been
Speaker 1: whitewashed and the space has been turned into a kitchen,
Speaker 1: and then I think a meeting room but there's still
Speaker 1: portions the peak out, and according to one visitor who
Speaker 1: saw it, there's a drawing of Pan who apparently was well,
Speaker 1: he has this enormous member and he's also excited. But
Speaker 1: then someone whited out his member. So now it looks
Speaker 1: even more like comically big because you can't see how
Speaker 1: large it was. All right, that made do the trigger.
Speaker 1: I think that probably takes it from a one star
Speaker 1: to maybe a one and a half star for some
Speaker 1: of these people. But before we sign off, what do
Speaker 1: you say we have a little fact up. All right,
Speaker 1: here's one about the Sistine Chapel. So Michael Angelo never
Speaker 1: wanted to paint it. Apparently it was just painted as
Speaker 1: a giant sky with stars before and and then it
Speaker 1: didn't appeal to him. He only saw himself as a sculptor.
Speaker 1: In fact, in his letter to friends, he complained that
Speaker 1: he never should have taken on the assignment, saying I'm
Speaker 1: not in the right place. I'm not a painter. Video
Speaker 1: is a painter. So the reporter who broke the news
Speaker 1: about Bendicks stepping down from being Pope actually got the
Speaker 1: scoop because she is the only person in the room
Speaker 1: who understood his announcement. And that's because he made it
Speaker 1: in Latin. All right, Well, the Vatican has a strong
Speaker 1: stance against gluten free Eucharus. They'll allow it, I mean,
Speaker 1: for people with serious gluten problems, but they do not
Speaker 1: like it. Also, adding honey or flavoring to the bread
Speaker 1: is severely frowned upon. So according to the Definitive Book
Speaker 1: of Body Language, five University of Texas College students were
Speaker 1: arrested at the Vatican for flashing the hookham horn side.
Speaker 1: Apparently it's a sign for cuck holding someone in Italy.
Speaker 1: That's a bad idea. All right, Well, the Vatican has
Speaker 1: announced his position on baptizing aliens. Did you know this.
Speaker 1: It's good to have a stance on this. Just to
Speaker 1: be clear, they'll happily convert extraterrestrials if they're interested in
Speaker 1: becoming Catholics. I love that and I want to sit
Speaker 1: in on those confessions. But before we go, I wanted
Speaker 1: to give a special shout out to Dolan Brown for
Speaker 1: pulling together a ton of research for this episode, and
Speaker 1: for all of you out there on Part Time Genius Land.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Y, thanks again for listening.
Speaker 1: Part Time Genius is a production of how stuff works
Speaker 1: and wouldn't be possible without several brilliant people who do
Speaker 1: the important things we couldn't even begin to understand. Tristan
Speaker 1: McNeil does the editing thing. Noel Brown made the theme
Speaker 1: song and does the MIXI mixy sound thing. Jerry Rowland
Speaker 1: does the exact producer thing. Gay Bluesier is our lead researcher,
Speaker 1: with support from the Research Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan
Speaker 1: Brown and Lucas Adams and Eve. Jeff Cook gets the
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Speaker 1: what you heard, we hope you'll subscribe, And if you
Speaker 1: really really like what you've heard, and maybe you could
Speaker 1: leave a good review for us? Did we? Did we
Speaker 1: forget Jason? Jason who