Speaker 1: It was crazy because I'm praying for my mother to
Speaker 1: get free from an active crack addiction, but I'm two
Speaker 1: blocks down serving somebody else's monther.
Speaker 2: Those were not tough times. They were times that I
Speaker 2: realized it was all part of the journey. When I
Speaker 2: look back, I marveled how everything turned out.
Speaker 3: Man, I'm gonna get back to the pro game. You know.
Speaker 1: I started in two thousand and four December Staple Center.
Speaker 1: Had my first pro fight, second fight against Kenny Costs,
Speaker 1: got buzzed.
Speaker 3: Then maybe three or four.
Speaker 1: Fights after that, you know, got dropped in Portland, Oregon
Speaker 1: under Carter Floyd Mayweather, Shamba Mitchell against Donell Boone. What
Speaker 1: are you thinking at that time? Did you think I
Speaker 1: didn't have a chance at that time?
Speaker 4: No, because when Kenny car said you didn't see the punch.
Speaker 3: I didn't see the one of them punches, and it was.
Speaker 2: You were over your feet and you didn't have your
Speaker 2: eyes on where they should have been. Darnell Boone, it
Speaker 2: was a mistake, an amateur, a mistake where when the
Speaker 2: ref tell you to break, you drop your hands and
Speaker 2: you step back, and the pros you can't do that,
Speaker 2: So he told you to break and he fired up.
Speaker 4: Beculsen't he caught you?
Speaker 2: But you got up and you you actually had him hurt.
Speaker 2: So no, I never worried about that at all.
Speaker 3: I got up.
Speaker 2: If you stayed down, oh man, we got a problem, right,
Speaker 2: got a problem. But that was both of those were
Speaker 2: on the money punches and you took him, but you
Speaker 2: came back within seconds and they never landed another punch.
Speaker 3: You know. I had to shake off that. You know.
Speaker 1: The knock on me was he got an amateur style.
Speaker 1: He don't hit hard and he can't take a punch.
Speaker 1: After I got dropped against Boom, I.
Speaker 3: Had to shake that off for years. You know. I
Speaker 3: had to shake that off for years.
Speaker 1: And it's like hbo was like, man, you know, we we'll, we'll, we'll,
Speaker 1: we'll put.
Speaker 3: Him on the air. But if we got one more,
Speaker 3: one more slip up, that's it.
Speaker 1: I went from one sixty to one sixty eight tournament
Speaker 1: called the Super Six, and I remember we kept hearing
Speaker 1: about this tournament, the top six super middleweights in the world,
Speaker 1: and me and Derail was the young guys coming up up.
Speaker 3: Carl Frod was established, he was a champion.
Speaker 1: Arthur Abraham was a champion in one sixty but they
Speaker 1: figured he was gonna do the same thing on one
Speaker 1: sixty eight. You had Jermaine Taylor that that was teetering,
Speaker 1: and then you had the big dog, Nicol Kessler.
Speaker 3: So I'm hearing it's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen.
Speaker 1: Ain't no way all these promoters gonna get together and
Speaker 1: put they fighters in this tournament that's gonna last for
Speaker 1: two years. So Jay telling me I'm in Mexico, he like, bro,
Speaker 1: enjoy your vacation.
Speaker 3: I'm like, you sure, because I'm hearing it's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: In a week long story short, the first press conference
Speaker 1: to kick off the Super six happened in New York.
Speaker 1: Ward ain't there, And I'm like Jay, he like what
Speaker 1: looked like it happened? And then you called. You was like, man, hey,
Speaker 1: you need to get on the plane right now. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, man, verse, I mean, ja said man, Jay, Man,
Speaker 1: look man, you had that tone of your voice.
Speaker 3: Look, man, you need to get on the plane.
Speaker 1: Right now because they you're not gonna be a part
Speaker 1: of this tournament and it's gonna lock you out of
Speaker 1: this Super I mean out the sixty eight pound championship.
Speaker 3: Of getting the title, it ain't gonna be a good look. Man.
Speaker 3: I get I packed the family up, drive tos in.
Speaker 1: They're gonna fly back to the Bay. I got a
Speaker 1: double ear infection.
Speaker 3: I'm sick. Unpacked the bag, packed the bag, got on
Speaker 3: a red.
Speaker 1: Eye of Germany to the second stop for the Super
Speaker 1: six to announce it the next day. Man and I
Speaker 1: remember calling you after the press conference. I was like, Man,
Speaker 1: I said, they don't think the American's gonna do nothing.
Speaker 3: He was like, what what's the vibe? Like what you?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 3: You?
Speaker 1: I said, Man, They just they got us here as
Speaker 1: like a placeholder. They just you know, I'm the gold medaler.
Speaker 1: So that's that's good window dressing. The rails, you know,
Speaker 1: flashy and the and then you got Jermaine Taylor. But
Speaker 1: they they really about the Europeans, and you was like,
Speaker 1: we're gonna We're gonna show them.
Speaker 3: So I ended up getting.
Speaker 1: The toughest fighter the first the first round of the
Speaker 1: tournament in two thousand and nine against Michel Kesler at
Speaker 1: the House.
Speaker 3: That was that was no other way I would take it. Right.
Speaker 3: It's just like when you fallow back and rink. Why though,
Speaker 3: why you guys want me to take the rough route?
Speaker 2: Well I didn't. I didn't ask for him. That's what
Speaker 2: they presented, that's who they offered. So I didn't ask
Speaker 2: for him, but I I had.
Speaker 3: But you always say, just like, it's gotta be that. Wait,
Speaker 3: why my role gotta be rugged?
Speaker 2: Because that's to stimulate your mind for the owners that
Speaker 2: you hear for a reason, that you're doing this for
Speaker 2: a reason, and it.
Speaker 4: Sets the tone. It it sets the tone.
Speaker 3: So that's why you were there.
Speaker 2: You were not there to be waited on later on
Speaker 2: in your second or third fight to set the tone.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna set the tone in the very first fight.
Speaker 2: So anybody who didn't have their mind on me or
Speaker 2: it looked at me as a thread or anything like that,
Speaker 2: now they know I'm a threat.
Speaker 3: Now they know. So I got you here.
Speaker 4: Now I got you here because I'll easily. I did it.
Speaker 2: You know how violently I did it, how uncompromising I
Speaker 2: did it. So now they know this is what you
Speaker 2: gotta face, right, this is what you gotta face. So
Speaker 2: that was that was a blessing in disguise. But I
Speaker 2: always knew we would win the tournament. I just didn't
Speaker 2: see nobody there that could do it.
Speaker 4: Outside of a lucky punch or something.
Speaker 3: That set the tone. But it's like God always be
Speaker 3: doing that with me, you know.
Speaker 1: It's like even as an amateur, we used to have
Speaker 1: his book called, you know, the USA Boxing Book, all rankings,
Speaker 1: and then certain guys.
Speaker 3: That get a cover story and a feature.
Speaker 1: It's like I was number one since two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: never got a cover store, never was highlighted as a
Speaker 1: premier athlete.
Speaker 3: But after I want to.
Speaker 1: Gold medal, the last USA Boxing book that I that
Speaker 1: I was ever a part of all you, I was
Speaker 1: on the cover and God was like, see right, same
Speaker 1: thing with the super six, the last man standing.
Speaker 4: What is the word say? The end of a thing
Speaker 4: is better than the beginning.
Speaker 3: Or even even my pro career.
Speaker 1: A lot of people had a lot to say, had
Speaker 1: went through, went through what professional athletes go through, injuries, lawsuits,
Speaker 1: you know, fighting for myself as a businessman is that,
Speaker 1: you know, But when it's all said and done.
Speaker 3: People said, oh, you never want to dispute it.
Speaker 1: I didn't have to be undisputed because every weight class
Speaker 1: I touched, I finished that weight class being the best
Speaker 1: I had a ring magazine. Bell I was recognized as
Speaker 1: the best fighter at one hundred and sixty eight. Went
Speaker 1: Um did the same thing at once seventy five and
Speaker 1: first ballot Hall of Fame. Like, God, he don't always
Speaker 1: do that, But a lot of times it's like they
Speaker 1: don't see it.
Speaker 3: They don't see it, they don't see it, and it's like, oh, man.
Speaker 1: Look how about that kid war And it's like, but
Speaker 1: the journey and everything that I gained, it's powerful.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: I don't always like that route, but for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: a lot of times that's the route that I take.
Speaker 1: That when it's all said and done, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: clear when it doest settles.
Speaker 2: Well, you remember when you were a young kid and
Speaker 2: I told you about getting out the game before the
Speaker 2: game retired. You to save your money, to invest your money,
Speaker 2: don't scander your money. Don't get caught off in trinkets
Speaker 2: and gadgets and chains and jewelry and things like that,
Speaker 2: big rams on your car. You're a family man, right,
Speaker 2: You're not in the street or anything like that. So
Speaker 2: for you to materialize into the men that you are today,
Speaker 2: you did it your way. You had an exit strategy,
Speaker 2: you had an exit plan, and you did it your way.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, if I always say this,
Speaker 2: God hadn't have given you the little.
Speaker 3: Thorns in your body.
Speaker 2: If you never had this knee issue, if you never
Speaker 2: had that shoulder issue, right, you might have kept going. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you see, but you had enough to know. I'm tired
Speaker 2: of going through this. I've hit the top. I've made
Speaker 2: it to the pinnacle, so now I can let it go.
Speaker 2: I'm satisfied. I'm satisfied. And in spite of what other
Speaker 2: people say, Oh, he ducked Bevo, he dug me the bell.
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, I beat the boogeyman of the light
Speaker 2: heavyweight division at that time.
Speaker 3: Be the Bell wasn't a boogieman. Bill wasn't a dood man.
Speaker 3: Them dudes was ranked like six.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Cobe left was the boogeyman of the division.
Speaker 3: He was right there. If he'd beat me, he'd have
Speaker 3: been number one.
Speaker 1: You don't fight number one and duck four and five.
Speaker 2: I went straight to the top, So I don't have
Speaker 2: to pay attention to all of that. I don't have
Speaker 2: to listen to all of that because I accomplished what
Speaker 2: I need to accomplish.
Speaker 4: Because in the fickle fight.
Speaker 2: World is always gonna be somebody else for you to fight,
Speaker 2: according to the fans, because they don't like you.
Speaker 4: They want to see you get deep.
Speaker 2: Then they left and then made you left on top.
Speaker 2: They can't stand you to leave it on top. So
Speaker 2: that that was the only fight that I wish I
Speaker 2: could have saw you and Derrel because both of you
Speaker 2: guys deserved each other.
Speaker 4: Both of you guys deserved each.
Speaker 2: Other, and it would not only been a great fight
Speaker 2: for the tournament, it would have been a great fight
Speaker 2: when the tournament was over.
Speaker 3: You guys could have saw each other at least two times.
Speaker 1: But it's crazy, though, because we were on a collision
Speaker 1: course in the Super six tournament. But you and Bumper
Speaker 1: his grandfather, y'all were convinced we wasn't gonna fight. Y'all
Speaker 1: kept saying Bumper like, man, I ain't gonna fight our boys,
Speaker 1: and you was like, man, we ain't gonna let it happen.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, Verge, my mind already shifted. I'm like, Verge,
Speaker 1: we gonna fight you Like nah, Man, it ain't gonna happen.
Speaker 1: My mind already shifted like and it didn't end up happening.
Speaker 1: If he would have, if Durrell would have beat Arthur Abraham,
Speaker 1: you know it would have happened.
Speaker 3: It just wasn't meant to be.
Speaker 1: But it's crazy because I got like me and Drrel
Speaker 1: like we came up together. We we was cool friends.
Speaker 1: We weren't like best friends, but we was cool. But
Speaker 1: when I saw that heat it was possible that me
Speaker 1: and him may fight, my mind just shifts, like so
Speaker 1: even when he thought Arthur Abraham, It's like I got
Speaker 1: two things going on, Like I went to the Joe
Speaker 1: Louis Arena as.
Speaker 3: A friend and rooted for him, right, I'm rooting for you, bruh.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, my other mind is is
Speaker 1: I'm reading you too, because everything gonna be on the
Speaker 1: line if you win this fight, if you beat Offthor Abraham,
Speaker 1: everything gonna be on the line. It don't matter how
Speaker 1: how long we've been knowing each other, it don't matter
Speaker 1: how close my godfather is with your grandfather. You finish
Speaker 1: try to hurt me, and I gotta try to stop
Speaker 1: you from doing that.
Speaker 3: So I can remember even pulling up like the day
Speaker 3: before the fight.
Speaker 1: A couple days before the fight, I was in Detroit
Speaker 1: and I'm like, Bro, how you feeling. Bro, Man, I'm nervous, man,
Speaker 1: and I'm nervous, and I'm.
Speaker 3: Looking at and it's like you a brother in the game.
Speaker 1: Man, We're about to risk at all sort the other
Speaker 1: my other mind is like, oh, you nervous, And I'm
Speaker 1: processing and I'm reading how he dealing with that moment.
Speaker 1: I have to think like this, I can't be in
Speaker 1: a place if we're not gonna fight or this is
Speaker 1: my butt. We're not friends right now, Bro. If you
Speaker 1: win this fight tonight, it's up. It's going down.
Speaker 3: So I had to.
Speaker 1: I'm talking to him, but I'm also reading man, I'm nervous, man.
Speaker 1: A lot of people are gonna be here. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, And I'm just watching it and I'm reading it,
Speaker 1: and I'm watching him when i'm reading it.
Speaker 3: Because I had to.
Speaker 2: That was a sad situation because he really fought that night.
Speaker 2: He shows a lot of skill that night. The reel
Speaker 2: did he showed that he was a player in the
Speaker 2: division and things like that. But after it happened. The
Speaker 2: reason why I knew it wasn't gonna happen because Bumper
Speaker 2: was telling me it wasn't gonna happen because he wasn't
Speaker 2: recovering from the head injury.
Speaker 1: But y'all was saying it wasn't gonna happen even before
Speaker 1: the Abraham fight. I remember y'all was talking a lot.
Speaker 1: He was like, Man, we ain't gonna let that happen.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 3: Then I said, verb, it's on the contract.
Speaker 1: If we if if if he wins, we fighting. No,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. And I was like, vers, I can't,
Speaker 1: I can't.
Speaker 2: I little Bumper was telling me, we ain't no matter what,
Speaker 2: we just we're not gonna fight.
Speaker 4: That's what he told me.
Speaker 2: I never told him my side of it, but he
Speaker 2: told me, and you know, I salute Bumper because he
Speaker 2: cared about Yeah, he didn't.
Speaker 3: Want anyone to see. He didn't want to see that.
Speaker 3: I didn't want to see it. I want.
Speaker 1: I think from a boxing standpoint, it would have been
Speaker 1: a tremendous match up. Because I sparred with Dre d
Speaker 1: it's hard to deal with, yeah, you know, but but
Speaker 1: but deep damn, I didn't want to see that fight.
Speaker 3: I didn't want to fight.
Speaker 2: Now, a lot of people didn't want to see that fight,
Speaker 2: you know, because at least in the championship.
Speaker 3: But it would have been a great fight. It would
Speaker 3: have been a great fight. It'd have been a great fight.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the real one by this qualification.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the real one by this qualification. Right. But he
Speaker 3: couldn't continue, right, He.
Speaker 2: Didn't continue to tournament anymore because he was having head
Speaker 2: issues and.
Speaker 3: It shook up his career. Man. It was I remember being.
Speaker 1: In the locker room and seeing him crying, and I
Speaker 1: was like, bro, it was it was crazy.
Speaker 3: And Anthony Dowel was trying to you know, Detroit.
Speaker 1: Like Oakland when they feel like you do something wrong
Speaker 1: with one of their guys. They were trying to get
Speaker 1: in the ring, and I was just like, bro, this
Speaker 1: is crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I hate that.
Speaker 2: It was a sad situation, uncalled for. You know, it
Speaker 2: was just a desperation moved by Abraham. He knew he
Speaker 2: was behind.
Speaker 4: And he just let it go. That's frustration, you know,
Speaker 4: that's frustration.
Speaker 3: Like I hadn't lost in.
Speaker 1: A long time, man, And like you know, when I
Speaker 1: became champion, even before that, you know, I used to
Speaker 1: say stuff like, man, it would have been good for
Speaker 1: you to have an early loss. You get that, get
Speaker 1: that monkey off your back? Why would you say stuff
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 2: Just to keep you mentally stimulated. I was stimulated enough
Speaker 2: trying to just and just to see what you comeback
Speaker 2: would be.
Speaker 3: I hate it when you said that.
Speaker 2: I know sometimes you got to say stuff that really
Speaker 2: strike a nerve. I used to tell you in the
Speaker 2: dress room. Then you caught me a headcase. Yeah, when
Speaker 2: you when you when you have so much perfection in
Speaker 2: what you do, when you put so much perfection in it,
Speaker 2: then it involves your head. You can't think straight sometimes
Speaker 2: because you're on this perfection drive. You're on the perfection trail,
Speaker 2: so you can't get out. You can't rationalize nothing, you
Speaker 2: can't ingest nothing that calms you down because you're always
Speaker 2: on this trail. So the competitiveness overrules relaxation sometimes, right,
Speaker 2: Competitiveness makes you say things. You get angry and mad
Speaker 2: in here and everything like that. And I didn't mind
Speaker 2: you being mad, right because I know the biggers of training,
Speaker 2: the rigors are training, what it takes to do it,
Speaker 2: the sacrifices it takes.
Speaker 3: So yeah, you're gonna be angry, but.
Speaker 2: It's not going to minimize me. It's not gonna take
Speaker 2: away what I feel I need to say, because I'm
Speaker 2: not in need to kiss you. I'm not here for that,
Speaker 2: right and I'm not afraid to not do it right,
Speaker 2: I'm not afraid too. So when you mad, I'm kind
Speaker 2: of happy, right cause the frustration comes out in there
Speaker 2: and you're actually releasing, You're actually venting things like that.
Speaker 2: So I understood that from being around kids for thirty years.
Speaker 2: You know, understood that. So you know, when I was
Speaker 2: at the probation department, kids would be mad about something,
Speaker 2: but it would actually be a release for them. After
Speaker 2: that anger subsides and the adrenaline subsidence, you're in a
Speaker 2: relaxed state.
Speaker 1: Why I used to hate when you and you said
Speaker 1: right in the middle of training again, man, it would
Speaker 1: have been good for you to have a loss early,
Speaker 1: to get that get that pressure off you.
Speaker 3: I'm like, what, Well, I'm a mean day.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to keep this thing going and not lose.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm trying to put things in your mind that
Speaker 2: you're gonna hear in the crowd. Also, when you're fighting,
Speaker 2: you're gonna have haters in the crowd. Yah, you this,
Speaker 2: you asked you that you gotta be able to take
Speaker 2: that right. So the first place it starts is in
Speaker 2: the gym.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: If you can't take it in the gym, you're not
Speaker 2: gonna take it in the arena.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: All it takes is one person to throw you off
Speaker 4: your game.
Speaker 3: You a bomb? Warr you ever done this? Man? You
Speaker 3: a fake?
Speaker 2: And and if you can, if you entertain that, it
Speaker 2: could take your focus off of what you're doing, you know.
Speaker 1: Being retired, and I've been able to reflect and kind
Speaker 1: of think, you know, just look back at my career
Speaker 1: and how we did things, and it's like, I know,
Speaker 1: the school you came from where fighters was more gotta isolate,
Speaker 1: you gotta stay away, you can't handlebody around you, don't,
Speaker 1: you know that kind of thing. And it's like, I
Speaker 1: think it's definitely a benefit to that, you know, eliminate distractions.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's like, I wasn't the
Speaker 1: type of dude that got distracted easy.
Speaker 3: I wasn't a.
Speaker 1: Type of fighter that like, you know, you look up,
Speaker 1: where is it, I'm in a night club in the
Speaker 1: middle of that. It just wasn't my thing, you know,
Speaker 1: I really wanted to win and you know, all of
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Do you think, looking back on it,
Speaker 1: we could have eased up on that a little bit.
Speaker 3: We had the mindset.
Speaker 1: Like keep all the media out, We don't want nobody here,
Speaker 1: like y'all only come when we have to have you here.
Speaker 1: Like do you think that, looking back on it, we
Speaker 1: could have did something different with maybe been more inviting
Speaker 1: to the media, or maybe because that was some of
Speaker 1: the pressure too, was you know, like I got to
Speaker 1: the point where and I blame you for this.
Speaker 3: I didn't even wrong my wife around me in training.
Speaker 1: Camp because that's what I was conditioned to do as
Speaker 1: a kid. Hey man, you gotta get away, hey man,
Speaker 1: you gotta get your mind ready for war. And a
Speaker 1: lot of that was true. All that was true, but
Speaker 1: it's like you start feeling weird about being around your
Speaker 1: family even in camp, because I'm not sleeping in the
Speaker 1: same bed with my wife, I don't have that softness
Speaker 1: around me, like I'm in that I'm in a house
Speaker 1: with another one of my.
Speaker 3: Trainers, and I'm grinding you.
Speaker 1: Would you have done some of that different or do
Speaker 1: would you have still kept it the same?
Speaker 2: Well to say say something about that, if you were
Speaker 2: drafted and you had to go to Iran Afghanistan and
Speaker 2: you knew you were going into a war, and you
Speaker 2: knew you were gonna get shot at with live ammunition, bombs,
Speaker 2: iug's helicopter, fire drones and everything else. And you and
Speaker 2: Blouoe Camp. Would you be one of your wife there then?
Speaker 2: And bullets flying at your head? Would you want a
Speaker 2: wife there? Would you be interested at talking to the press?
Speaker 2: And no, you're locked in on survival.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: I knew that wasn't gonna always last. But once you're comfortable,
Speaker 2: and once you've been through it and been through it
Speaker 2: now you're able to shut out your surroundings is around
Speaker 2: you right early on, before you get comfortable with it,
Speaker 2: before you regiment yourself, before you discipline yourself.
Speaker 4: Yeah, keep keep.
Speaker 2: The woman away, right, keep the woman away, because even
Speaker 2: if you're not sleeping with her, she in the same
Speaker 2: room with you're walking around in a ninety's.
Speaker 4: That's a distraction, right, that's a distraction.
Speaker 2: If she's sleeping next to you and you not even
Speaker 2: have intimacy with her, that heater is next to you.
Speaker 4: You know, it's softening you.
Speaker 2: So you have to put yourself in a state of
Speaker 2: mind that somebody gotta pay for this, right, and it's disciplined.
Speaker 2: You got to get the discipline, then you can relax
Speaker 2: the discipline because.
Speaker 3: It's already there, it's already intact. We never relaxed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but no, in your last fights at the dressing
Speaker 2: room was packed. It was different with a lot of people,
Speaker 2: was much different, telling his crew was there, everybody. It
Speaker 2: was much different. It was more festive. But I knew
Speaker 2: by then you able to block all that out.
Speaker 3: I knew how that wasn't.
Speaker 2: Gonna affect you right, but early on it would have
Speaker 2: affected you people in there that you'd have been distracted.
Speaker 2: So you have to learn how to compartment lines before
Speaker 2: you able to deal with distraction.
Speaker 4: That was the reason why for that.
Speaker 2: I always knew it wasn't gonna last for long, you know,
Speaker 2: I always knew that.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't even just the woman in my life.
Speaker 1: You said about even you know, dudes like who was that?
Speaker 3: What are you doing here? Man?
Speaker 1: You know, man, you know why you got him over here?
Speaker 1: You used to do that about everybody if they wasn't
Speaker 1: on the same page. I had a real reason to
Speaker 1: be here.
Speaker 3: You doing tomorrow?
Speaker 2: Well, people got to understand that I'm at work. This
Speaker 2: is my job, so why are you hanging around my job?
Speaker 4: Do I go to your job and hang around.
Speaker 3: No, I don't. If I went to your job, learn oh.
Speaker 4: B you can't be here. I could get fired.
Speaker 2: But you think it's okay to come to my job
Speaker 2: and hang around and talk about everything and everybody else
Speaker 2: accept what's going on at the time.
Speaker 3: If you go into a.
Speaker 2: Dressing room in most boxing dressing rooms, and that's not
Speaker 2: to knock nobody, everybody's got their own way. And if
Speaker 2: you sit there and listen to the conversations of the
Speaker 2: people in the room, they're not talking about you. They
Speaker 2: talking about what happened last night. They talking about this
Speaker 2: car they picked up. They talking about this girl they're
Speaker 2: going to see. They're talking about everything except what you do. Right,
Speaker 2: So that's a distraction. That's a distraction. So when people
Speaker 2: were come in the dressing room, they're all off in
Speaker 2: different type of conversations. No, I didn't like that at all,
Speaker 2: because you're.
Speaker 3: On my job. You in all my time.
Speaker 4: You're on my time, and you're on my job, and if.
Speaker 2: Something goes wrong, you gonna be pointing fingers at me. Right,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be the first one that get to blame
Speaker 2: if something go wrong. So I'm not gonna get to
Speaker 2: blame by allowing you to come in here and express
Speaker 2: your agenda. Right, I'm gonna get the blame because I
Speaker 2: need I deserve the blame, right, I'm not gonna get
Speaker 2: the blame because you distracted my fighter, or you came
Speaker 2: in and why he's warming up.
Speaker 4: Man, I seen Susie the other night, man, she had
Speaker 4: this dress on, and you there trying to war them up. Man,
Speaker 4: you heard what he said.
Speaker 3: We didn't shut thues down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he said this man in the locker room that
Speaker 1: was talking about stuff that was other than fighting, other.
Speaker 3: Than fighting, right, because it's a distraction.
Speaker 2: But I admit, you can get to a point where
Speaker 2: you so familiar, familiarized with what you do, and you
Speaker 2: got that early discipline in that early being able to
Speaker 2: push distractions out. It don't matter who's in there, because
Speaker 2: you're not gonna be an entertainer.
Speaker 4: You locked in on what you do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you wouldn't change nothing, No.
Speaker 2: Of course, you'd have to get somebody like I had
Speaker 2: you from the root to the fruit. Guys who come
Speaker 2: now who've been fighting for a while, don't even bother
Speaker 2: him about it, right, because I understand that they've had
Speaker 2: a certain routine for a long time, so I can't
Speaker 2: go back and implement all the things. When guys come
Speaker 2: to me, they think I can make a ma Andre reward,
Speaker 2: I say, well, are you willing to do the things
Speaker 2: that he did? Are you willing to make the sacrifices
Speaker 2: that he did? Are you gonna have the discipline that
Speaker 2: he did in between fights, never getting no more than
Speaker 2: fifteen pounds overweight? You're gonna be able to get up
Speaker 2: early in the morning in Iran. You're gonna be able
Speaker 2: to wake me up like you do. I never had
Speaker 2: to wake you up. You woke me up right. If
Speaker 2: you can't do all that, don't look Number one, I
Speaker 2: can't do it anyway. But I can give you the
Speaker 2: habits and then what your ability is. It's gonna make
Speaker 2: your ability better if you embrace these habits. But if
Speaker 2: you keep the same habits, most guys that lose, most
Speaker 2: champions that lose, it's a hard way back for them
Speaker 2: to get their belt again because even though they make
Speaker 2: a coaching change, they still want the same habits that
Speaker 2: they're familiar with. They don't want to be taken out
Speaker 2: of their comfort zone right in order, So my question
Speaker 2: to them was No general goes to war to stay
Speaker 2: the same, for things to stay the same. General go
Speaker 2: to war, you go in the war for change. So
Speaker 2: if you come here, you're looking for a change, right,
Speaker 2: So all your habits and all your bad but nine
Speaker 2: times out of ten they want to hold on to
Speaker 2: these bad habits because there it's ingrained in them. So
Speaker 2: but yeah, I did that so you would get that discipline,
Speaker 2: so you learn how to push out distractions so you
Speaker 2: won't be caught off in anything.
Speaker 1: Man, we cleaned out the Superman aweight division with you know,
Speaker 1: obviously the Super six. It was a great finals fight
Speaker 1: with Carl Frosch. But then you know, they was talking
Speaker 1: about me fighting bout Tae, But I didn't feel like
Speaker 1: I needed to fight Bou Tae because I didn't respect
Speaker 1: the fact that he didn't do with everything that he
Speaker 1: could to be in that tournament.
Speaker 3: You know, dudes want to have you do the.
Speaker 1: Heavy lifting and then try to come and you know,
Speaker 1: reap the reward and fight you. So I gave that
Speaker 1: fight to Frog. Frog did what he did to him,
Speaker 1: But I went up. I stayed at sixty eight and
Speaker 1: I fought Chad Dawson. You know, he took your business
Speaker 1: with Chad Dawson, you know, had a lawsuit for two years,
Speaker 1: and you know, just just going through the things you
Speaker 1: go through, man, when you used to settle for what
Speaker 1: people tell you, when you not only ask questions but
Speaker 1: are demanding answers. And you know, survived that, learned a
Speaker 1: lot through that, grew a lot through that. And then
Speaker 1: in Steps of Rock Nation and I had one tune
Speaker 1: up fight against Paul Smith of twenty fifteen. But then
Speaker 1: HBO starts talking about me fighting Sergate COVID lied they pushing.
Speaker 3: To move up.
Speaker 1: So on one hand, I'm like, nah, this sounded like
Speaker 1: a trap, Like I don't know if I'm ready to
Speaker 1: move up. That really wasn't on my agenda. I was like, man,
Speaker 1: you know some good fights at sixty eight. So they
Speaker 1: kept pushing, basically saying that that's that's all we got
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 3: So you had a good plan.
Speaker 1: You was like, all right, we'll move up, but they
Speaker 1: wanted me to do one fighting then go. You said, no,
Speaker 1: you need to build yourself up to one seventy five.
Speaker 1: Just because you weigh one seventy five doesn't mean your
Speaker 1: body settled into one seventy five. So we were able to
Speaker 1: get two tune up fights and then the third fight
Speaker 1: November nineteenth, twenty sixteen, we ended up fighting Sergate Cold Lib.
Speaker 1: But when you first start hearing about Covid lib, what
Speaker 1: did you know about it and what did you feel
Speaker 1: about that me fighting him?
Speaker 2: Well, I had watched Sergey kovia leve long before they
Speaker 2: even suggested that before even when his title. When he
Speaker 2: came on the scene, I watched him and out I
Speaker 2: was feel impressed with him. You know, I realized that
Speaker 2: I never thought we'd end up fighting, but I was
Speaker 2: impressed with him, you know that the way he did things,
Speaker 2: the way he went about things, so he never left
Speaker 2: my mind. But I was a fan at the time
Speaker 2: he was that was a fan of COVID. You ain't
Speaker 2: tell me that before I was a fan of COVI left.
Speaker 2: I like how you got Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 3: I like how you got down. He was a fan
Speaker 3: of you just liked his fighting style.
Speaker 2: Well, I was a fan of until the point we
Speaker 2: was gonna fighth. Then I was an animate to a fan. Well,
Speaker 2: we weren't fighting him. I was a fan. I actually
Speaker 2: root it for him and fights because I like the
Speaker 2: way he operated. I like his smoothness. I liked his
Speaker 2: you know how he moved in on you and and
Speaker 2: but when they came with that, actually they came before
Speaker 2: the Paul Smith fight with it. So I told you,
Speaker 2: I said, we need three tune up fights.
Speaker 3: We need a whole year.
Speaker 2: I had been off of tune ups because he's been
Speaker 2: off and we got to acclimate and build into this weight.
Speaker 2: We're not just gonna step up and take this fight,
Speaker 2: because that's what they really wanted us to do. Because
Speaker 2: Peter Nelson, Peter Nelson was a good man, but he
Speaker 2: allowed me to have open dialogue with him, not to
Speaker 2: suppress what I needed to say. And I told him,
Speaker 2: I said, I know the network is pushing COVID left
Speaker 2: and they want to do it at our expense. So
Speaker 2: since they want to do it at our expense, we
Speaker 2: need three fights. We need three fights because he's not
Speaker 2: a light heavyweight yet and I'm not gonna put him
Speaker 2: in a situation where he hasn't acclimated to the weight.
Speaker 4: So they agreed, so.
Speaker 1: We got through with them them three tune up fights,
Speaker 1: and man, I training camp leading up to that fight
Speaker 1: was crazy. It was a tough camp. You know, continue
Speaker 1: to have issues with my right knee. It was a
Speaker 1: good camp, but it was it was a tough ca
Speaker 1: because the knee. The knee kept kept swelling up. It'd
Speaker 1: be three four times the size of my left knee.
Speaker 1: I'd have a good sparing day and then boom my knee.
Speaker 1: I couldn't do nothing the next day. And I'm the
Speaker 1: type of guys, you know, like I want to check
Speaker 1: my box, especially for a big moment. I did everything
Speaker 1: I was supposed to do, and God stripped that from me,
Speaker 1: you know. And I had two or three times at camps.
Speaker 1: I'm walking around my condo or outside like talking to
Speaker 1: you and Verge and Josh like, man, Gonna, I don't
Speaker 1: know if I can take the fight.
Speaker 3: You know you don't take the fight. Man, We can't
Speaker 3: you know. I'm like vib but man, like this's the
Speaker 3: most dangerous do it. I'm fighting. It's my I don't
Speaker 3: have my best weapon, my lead.
Speaker 1: Man, trust me, Man, God's got you. And it was
Speaker 1: like I felt it and I believed it. But I'm
Speaker 1: I'm calling in between the tension of like believing and
Speaker 1: not believing, and just like in my mind, I'm like,
Speaker 1: why would he.
Speaker 3: Put me in a situation like this, Why this right now?
Speaker 1: And let's getting my knee drained two hours before I
Speaker 1: went to the arena.
Speaker 2: You want to know why it turned out like that,
Speaker 2: because I think when you were was at first turn
Speaker 2: pro and you start playing basketball, and I warned you.
Speaker 4: I said, look, when you first.
Speaker 2: Started playing full court basketball, don't play no more than
Speaker 2: two games for about a month. I said, because what's
Speaker 2: gonna happen is you're in good physical shape, so you're
Speaker 2: not gonna get tired, but your ligaments and tendons are
Speaker 2: not basketball prepared and if you overdo it, you're gonna
Speaker 2: pop something. And that's just what happened. Yeah, I was
Speaker 2: too young too. The morning was too impatient. I said,
Speaker 2: don't play no more than two games at a time
Speaker 2: for the first month. Then add a game and you'll
Speaker 2: be okay. Because I played high level basketball, I know, right,
Speaker 2: you can't just go into one sport and go one
Speaker 2: hundred miles an hour. Because your cardiovascular system was so sound,
Speaker 2: you wasn't gonna get tired, but your lads and ligaments
Speaker 2: are gonna get tired.
Speaker 4: And that's how it popped.
Speaker 3: How was you feeling walking to the ring for that fight?
Speaker 1: Knowing everything that I had been through, good camp, but
Speaker 1: imperfect camp.
Speaker 2: I was very confident because I knew we had more
Speaker 2: than one plan. I knew we had more than one plan.
Speaker 2: I knew from watching COVID left over and over against
Speaker 2: certain fights.
Speaker 3: I never saw him fight on the inside.
Speaker 2: Never, So that lets me know that you know you
Speaker 2: don't like inside fighting or you can't fight on the inside,
Speaker 2: which it were both proved to be true. So that
Speaker 2: gave us a Plan B. Right, So after the first
Speaker 2: two rounds and shaking he was trying to find your
Speaker 2: steps and everything, we went to Plan B, and Plan
Speaker 2: B ended up.
Speaker 4: Uh being up h the second fight we were.
Speaker 3: And when I got dropped though the second round.
Speaker 2: I feel no panic because you only went to one knee.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, so I knew he was alright. And then
Speaker 2: he had thirty seconds left the land of ventitor and
Speaker 2: he never landed it, right, so I knew we had it.
Speaker 2: Everybody was panicking that ring side. Come on, I said, look,
Speaker 2: leave him alone. Yeah, he's gonna be okay, Just leave
Speaker 2: him alone. Yeah, don't let him hear all this anxiety
Speaker 2: come in the ringside.
Speaker 4: Don't let him hear all this doubt. In your voice.
Speaker 4: Just let him listen to me.
Speaker 3: Right. So we took it to the inside and that's
Speaker 3: that's where it's kryptonite. Was the best best. I think
Speaker 3: that's the best fight you ever coached.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you need it to be that, you know
Speaker 1: as and then clips go viral every time they put
Speaker 1: them on the internet because it was just it was real.
Speaker 3: Don't leave nothing to chance. Now, you got it. You
Speaker 3: understand when this is clicking and that's hitting. You got it?
Speaker 5: That power jab when he comes to you, step in
Speaker 5: with it and look at that darkness biting. Okay, and
Speaker 5: bring it. Bring you both feet with you. Okay, down
Speaker 5: low where you can latch through your legs. Okay, right
Speaker 5: when he step here, and keep everything tight and crack.
Speaker 5: Now I believe you're close the gap. We gotta wear
Speaker 5: every single ground. You hear me, You start to put
Speaker 5: it together, you drink man, This is what great to
Speaker 5: see us. Robinson didn't got up, Leonard and got up all.
Speaker 3: Lader got up. You got up.
Speaker 1: I didn't hear no panic, but I heard urgency, like
Speaker 1: we need this well.
Speaker 4: I wanted to appeal to that side of you. You know.
Speaker 2: I didn't really go into boxing instruction. I didn't say, news,
Speaker 2: your jab more, do this more. I didn't say that.
Speaker 2: I appealed to your instincts, your ability to adjust instincts,
Speaker 2: and your will to win. That's what I appealed to
Speaker 2: and gave you the picture, gave you the vision that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy because you know my critics they try
Speaker 1: to they like to poke at that fight, like like.
Speaker 3: Like it was something wrong with that fight.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, first of all, did y'all do y'all
Speaker 1: forgot what y'all said leaning into the fight our ward?
Speaker 1: You know, he deep he went, he ain't gonna beat
Speaker 1: this dude. He's gonna get cleared. He was supposed to
Speaker 1: finish me, right. We shouldn't even be talking about whether
Speaker 1: the fight was closer or not down the stretch. But
Speaker 1: you know how there's a people and they gave see
Speaker 1: a knockdown. He wanted to fight just because of knockdown
Speaker 1: that early.
Speaker 3: And look at the scorecards. I want.
Speaker 1: I want to fight because I closed like a champion
Speaker 1: as supposed to throughout the fight.
Speaker 3: But in that twelve round he took us foot off
Speaker 3: the gas.
Speaker 2: Fight fans who are not around fighting all the time,
Speaker 2: they see what they want to say, they see what
Speaker 2: they want, right, They.
Speaker 4: Never even fight announcers today fight media.
Speaker 2: They see what they want to see. They route who
Speaker 2: they want to root for it. And when you have
Speaker 2: that type of mentality, uh, to judge or fight, you're
Speaker 2: not looking at what the other person is doing. You're
Speaker 2: not looking how how systematic this is changing around because
Speaker 2: you're only looking at.
Speaker 3: Your guy and what he does.
Speaker 4: So every time he throws some punches, you cheering.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I looking at the fact that I
Speaker 2: slipped him and then I blocked him and they hit
Speaker 2: him with two bodies, right, And you don't realize when
Speaker 2: he's grabbing me, I'm sticking him underneath, breaking him down.
Speaker 2: You don't even realize right in front of your eyes,
Speaker 2: he's breaking down.
Speaker 4: You don't even realize it.
Speaker 2: See, so quite naturally, fans of Covid Left gonna say,
Speaker 2: Covid Lev won.
Speaker 4: That's what fans of covi Left gonna say.
Speaker 2: But people that just don't like me, Oh, people just
Speaker 2: don't like you, right, because the networks that promoted him
Speaker 2: so much and he was just destroying people.
Speaker 3: It was a legitimate reputation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he had a legitimate reputation, and uh, he was
Speaker 2: a darling to the networks, right, he was a darling
Speaker 2: to the networks, you know, the way they promoted him
Speaker 2: with the sentence to smile and the jack O landin.
Speaker 4: He was a darling to the network.
Speaker 2: So it was it was a situation that fans gonna
Speaker 2: fans are gonna always see what they want to see
Speaker 2: in a fight.
Speaker 1: So I got on the rope when they announced the decision,
Speaker 1: and my critics, Ah, you look surprised. They don't know that.
Speaker 1: You whispered to me that I already told you you
Speaker 1: on I knew I want.
Speaker 3: I think it was Dino Duva that told you he came.
Speaker 3: He had I think it was Dino, and it was Josh.
Speaker 3: Was a Josh.
Speaker 4: It was Josh.
Speaker 1: Josh came and you said, you said, hey, we got
Speaker 1: about one round before before buffer even had a chance
Speaker 1: to exactly to even read the scorecard.
Speaker 3: And like you you thought you lost. Brother. I knew
Speaker 3: I want, like I literally knew I want.
Speaker 1: I got, you know, because you can you get to
Speaker 1: you kind of know, you know, if you get somebody
Speaker 1: to look at it like man, you got it, they'll
Speaker 1: give you a little you a little.
Speaker 3: Kite and let you know, but it's so crazy, man,
Speaker 3: that's one of that.
Speaker 1: That's probably Covid Left two is like the polished, like
Speaker 1: we did everything we were supposed to do the first
Speaker 1: time type of fight, and it was beautiful and it
Speaker 1: was systematic. But that first fight is different because I
Speaker 1: had to get it out the mud. I had to
Speaker 1: you know, dig myself out of a whole something I
Speaker 1: never had to do as a professional, and to do
Speaker 1: it against that dude on that stage.
Speaker 3: That's one of my favorite fights. And people don't realize that.
Speaker 1: Like I found out everything I needed to know about
Speaker 1: him in the first fight. Leaning into the second fight,
Speaker 1: I knew I felt him weakening. I knew he didn't
Speaker 1: have no answers I saw. I knew he didn't close strong.
Speaker 3: Late eleven and twelve, we knew about all the bad habits,
Speaker 3: right and uh. After that fight.
Speaker 1: Though, after the first Covid Left fight, I didn't come
Speaker 1: back to the gym for like three months. I didn't
Speaker 1: test the gym, didn't want nothing to do with it.
Speaker 3: And I was like, I think I may be done.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Like I fight to guy,
Speaker 1: it nobody wants to fight. I do what you say
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do and it still ain't good enough.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: It kind of felt like already dealing with this stuff physically.
Speaker 1: But then also it's like, what's the point, you know,
Speaker 1: what's the point? And we did decide to take the
Speaker 1: second fight, and you know, it was a money thing
Speaker 1: at that point in time, and we got the money
Speaker 1: where we needed to get it. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think we ever talked about this,
Speaker 1: but I knew going into that fight. So that was
Speaker 1: my last fight.
Speaker 3: I knew it, you know, I knew it.
Speaker 1: And I think that helped me because I could see
Speaker 1: the light even at the end of the tunnel. But
Speaker 1: and I chose to do it like that be because
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't want I didn't want you coaching
Speaker 1: me different.
Speaker 3: I didn't want that on your mind. I didn't want
Speaker 3: none of that, you know. And I didn't even really
Speaker 3: know how you was gonna take it. And I wasn't
Speaker 3: a hundred percent short too.
Speaker 1: I wanted some space too if I decided to not
Speaker 1: do it, I had that space too, But I knew, man,
Speaker 1: I was ninety percent short, that like is it and
Speaker 1: I and I knew I had to win cause if I,
Speaker 1: if I lose, or if it's close, they gonna give
Speaker 1: it to him and we gotta do a third fight, can't.
Speaker 3: We can't leave it one one.
Speaker 1: So I had a lot of motivation going into that fight, man,
Speaker 1: and that's probably the best camp I had. I was happy,
Speaker 1: I was super sharp, and I remember before the the
Speaker 1: the first day that I came back to the gym
Speaker 1: after being off for three months, you said we're gonna
Speaker 1: stop it.
Speaker 3: I said, he. I didn't say that, just bleeve it.
Speaker 1: I was like, how you You was like to the body,
Speaker 1: and sure enough, that's what happened.
Speaker 4: That's what happened.
Speaker 3: I think he retired at the right time.
Speaker 2: It didn't It didn't bother me at all because we
Speaker 2: had talked about it for years. I mean, to go
Speaker 2: back to day one when I first saw you, to
Speaker 2: your last fight. That's a journey for a book. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's a journey, man. When I look back on that
Speaker 2: journey in the years that it covered, it's a journey.
Speaker 2: So when you told me, I think that's it. I
Speaker 2: know I can tell your voice would expected me to say,
Speaker 2: why man, Why No? I don't have nothing else to prove.
Speaker 2: I came out on top. I'm number one in the world.
Speaker 2: I defended my title. I'm a two time no not
Speaker 2: two time champion. But I got other options. Now, I
Speaker 2: got other irons in the fire. I got an exit strategy.
Speaker 2: You see what I'm saying. So it was the right time.
Speaker 2: And like I said, I think that God allowed these
Speaker 2: ailments to come on you, not to really hamper you,
Speaker 2: but to remind you. You know that this ain't gonna
Speaker 2: last forever. And if I got to go through each
Speaker 2: camp dealing with this or dealing with that, well, actually
Speaker 2: this was healed.
Speaker 3: The shoulder was healed to.
Speaker 2: Deal with this and everything like that, and none known.
Speaker 2: And now I'm coming off a high or stopping this guy.
Speaker 2: Now what's next? I gotta fight another year or so
Speaker 2: before Bibbil and beiderbelv come along, right the position, Yes,
Speaker 2: So who am I gonna fight? That's gonna bring me
Speaker 2: the recognition? None of them's gonna bring the recognition. COVID
Speaker 2: like Bibbel and beat the bed and not being promoted
Speaker 2: like COVID level was promoted. COVID level was promoted big time.
Speaker 2: He was a darling of HBO. So you went out
Speaker 2: at the right time.
Speaker 3: My way.
Speaker 2: I did it my way, and it's always gonna be haters.
Speaker 2: But without haters, we don't get.
Speaker 4: The achievements and we have it.
Speaker 2: We don't get to honor our achievements and enjoy our achievements.
Speaker 3: So I beat I beat covid ed a second time.
Speaker 2: And well, not to cut you off, but look what
Speaker 2: that Look what HBO offered. After the second covid Let fight.
Speaker 2: They called me and said, Verge, just pick anybody you
Speaker 2: want to fight.
Speaker 3: That's a down, that's going down. You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: So I can pick anybody, anybody you want to fight,
Speaker 2: just pick them.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, like I think a month or so after the fight,
Speaker 1: you know, I start kind of feeling like, man, maybe
Speaker 1: you know, maybe I'll stick around because all my deals
Speaker 1: start renewing.
Speaker 3: Well, he actually came to the gym. I start, So
Speaker 3: I start, I start.
Speaker 1: I remember I had a like that pink set I
Speaker 1: had on. I remember, like it was yesterday minute, the
Speaker 1: winning set. It's all pink. My my Jordan deal was
Speaker 1: getting renewed, my HBO like fighting deal, and my commentating
Speaker 1: deal was getting renewed. Other sponsorship was getting renewed, and
Speaker 1: I was supposed to train that day, and I remember
Speaker 1: I was just sitting at the house and I was
Speaker 1: just it just hit me, like I was I was
Speaker 1: turning the corner like, man, Okay, maybe maybe I'll do
Speaker 1: one more, maybe two more. It just hit me and
Speaker 1: I was just like, I don't want to do this
Speaker 1: no more. Man, I don't want to do this no more.
Speaker 1: And normally when I talk like that, my wife tip,
Speaker 1: she she like, like, it ain't it ain't trying me.
Speaker 3: I feel you.
Speaker 1: I know you know, I know it's rough, but man,
Speaker 1: you She was like, Man, just hearing you talk today,
Speaker 1: she was like, man, I think the decision has already made.
Speaker 1: It's tough for me because you know, like I didn't
Speaker 1: say nothing to you about retirement. You was the last
Speaker 1: person I called, man, because I just it was tough.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: And I'm a person so that I can carry other
Speaker 1: people's stuff, you know, I can carry other people's you
Speaker 1: know what. I think how I think they gonna respond,
Speaker 1: you know, And you hadn't mentioned nothing to me about retired.
Speaker 3: Man. You hadn't said nothing like that, so I didn't.
Speaker 3: I didn't.
Speaker 1: I knew you wasn't thinking about that. And I remember
Speaker 1: the night before I announced it. I didn't tell really anybody, man,
Speaker 1: because I didn't want it to leak, and I didn't
Speaker 1: want I didn't want nobody to try to talk me
Speaker 1: out of it. And it was just a personal decision,
Speaker 1: you know. And so I told you the night before
Speaker 1: I called you. That night, I was at Jack Lindon
Speaker 1: Square in Oakland, and I remember I was like, man,
Speaker 1: I got a calling, I'm announced us. In the morning,
Speaker 1: I got a calling, and I reanber. I called you
Speaker 1: and I didn't know what you was gonna say, and
Speaker 1: you was like, he was like, man, I'm happy for you.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: You know you said, man, they never got a chance
Speaker 1: to see you beat up, bloody slurring, he said, I'm
Speaker 1: happy for you. And uh, but it's hard to believe that.
Speaker 1: I believe you was happy for me. But it's hard
Speaker 1: to believe that that was like that's all you felt.
Speaker 3: Though. That's tough to say. I mean, like, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: be real with you.
Speaker 1: It's day, it's days even today where I feel bad.
Speaker 1: I feel bad because we had a system, we had
Speaker 1: a program, and just that one decision shook everything up.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: It never became negative to me because We had talked
Speaker 2: about it from day one, and I knew.
Speaker 3: It wasn't my plan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, before for the day to be here. It's different
Speaker 1: than talking about it. You mean being here at this moment. No, No,
Speaker 1: I'm saying like the day arriving, or he really gonna retire,
Speaker 1: Like that's different than saying when you need to retire
Speaker 1: on top one day, that's that's in the future. But
Speaker 1: when the phone call comes through, it's a different conversation.
Speaker 3: It's real now. It didn't affect me one way. I
Speaker 3: was happy come on here. No, I was happy.
Speaker 4: I was happy what you.
Speaker 3: Which you had?
Speaker 2: No regrets, no struggles, no if you The only thing,
Speaker 2: the only thing that I say, and I don't regret it.
Speaker 2: The only thing I say is after the second Covial
Speaker 2: Left fight, you had got into a real groove because
Speaker 2: that was your fifth fight after the layoffs. So and
Speaker 2: I said your best years would be thirty five and
Speaker 2: thirty six, right, So that's the only thing I'm left
Speaker 2: to wonder with wonder where he could have been at
Speaker 2: that time, because I saw it. Once you got into
Speaker 2: that groove and once you had beat Covid Left, now
Speaker 2: you're gonna be very difficult to deal with. I don't
Speaker 2: care what they say about Bibil and be the bet
Speaker 2: great fighters, powerful fighters, but that will to win is
Speaker 2: something they never been confronted with the style that you're
Speaker 2: the jack o Lanta, the jack of all trade styles
Speaker 2: that you could do.
Speaker 3: That's not knockadem.
Speaker 2: I think most of them dangerous, and I would be
Speaker 2: surprised if they wanted to fight. But against oh, against you, nah,
Speaker 2: I don't put that.
Speaker 3: I just wanted to get a reaction out of your no.
Speaker 2: But now I was happy because it was done, and
Speaker 2: I knew everything was right. I knew you didn't have
Speaker 2: to take a fight. That was what I didn't want
Speaker 2: to do. I was talked about old trainers. When it's over,
Speaker 2: whether they physically done or they're mentally done, they're done right.
Speaker 2: Because once you start wrestling with should I retire, shouldn't
Speaker 2: I retire? That takes an edge off of you because
Speaker 2: you got should and shouldn't involved. Instead, I am I
Speaker 2: should and I'm going to do it it should maybe
Speaker 2: I'm not going to do it. All these factors come
Speaker 2: into play, so you can find yourself in a fight
Speaker 2: that you're supposed to dominate, and you'll slip, you know
Speaker 2: you'll have a poor performance because you you jack in
Speaker 2: with yourself. You're playing with yourself. You're like should I
Speaker 2: should not? And that's not a good attitude of good
Speaker 2: mindset to take it to the ring. Yeah, but I
Speaker 2: mean when I looked around, everything was set, Your family
Speaker 2: was set, you was set, everything was taking care of.
Speaker 2: What more can't you want? They can throw money in
Speaker 2: your face off if you just if you announced that
Speaker 2: you was coming back today, somebody have a couple million,
Speaker 2: two or three million dollars on the table for you.
Speaker 3: Oh don't always righting about that?
Speaker 2: No more more than that if you announce it today.
Speaker 2: So just knowing that it is consolation for me. It's
Speaker 2: consolation for me. And then I have a great example,
Speaker 2: a great talget piece of other fighters that come in
Speaker 2: that's so curious about you and wanted to come in
Speaker 2: and change your careers and everything. I have something that's
Speaker 2: very factual, something that's proven to tell them. Now, whether
Speaker 2: they embrace it or not, that's another thing. But you
Speaker 2: left me with a foundation, and you know, and I'm
Speaker 2: benefiting from that foundation to this day.
Speaker 3: You see.
Speaker 2: So No, I'm I'm very happy I didn't have one
Speaker 2: negative thought about did you think I was gonna do it?
Speaker 2: Once you told me he was, I thought, And then
Speaker 2: what else is it left to prove? I don't have
Speaker 2: nothing else to prove. I just beat the boogeyman in
Speaker 2: the division. What else do I have to prove?
Speaker 3: And I went out.
Speaker 2: I stopped him something that you guys never thought was possible,
Speaker 2: never envisioned him being stopped, never envisioned him quitting before
Speaker 2: he got stopped. See, No, that's gonna be a hard
Speaker 2: one the top. That's gonna be hard when the last
Speaker 2: fight they remember is gonna be that one. And I
Speaker 2: can remember you on the ground, and I can remember
Speaker 2: you taking fights when you wave past your prime.
Speaker 3: Look at Joe Lewis right down, a great heavyweight, right.
Speaker 2: But they still show fights that he shouldn't have took,
Speaker 2: with Marciano, with as a Charles and.
Speaker 3: Places like that.
Speaker 2: It wipes out all the great things you've done. And
Speaker 2: then when you gotta fight because you have to fight
Speaker 2: for money, it's a sad situation. The young guys, I
Speaker 2: tell them all the time. I haven't told him, but
Speaker 2: I wonder, why would you start making big money? The
Speaker 2: next thing I do, I see you at the ring
Speaker 2: side with two hundred and fifty three hundred thousand dollars, you.
Speaker 3: Know, and it's like, that's what they've been looking back
Speaker 3: when they didn't have it.
Speaker 2: Here's a case of having men around you. Where's somebody
Speaker 2: to say, wait a minute, man, you could take this money,
Speaker 2: put yourself with a position where you can own the
Speaker 2: jewelry store over a period of time, and then you
Speaker 2: can wear everything free. Like Johnny dang right, he owns
Speaker 2: the jewelry store, so he could glean blean up anytime
Speaker 2: he wants to, any which way he wants to, because
Speaker 2: he owns it. You got something around your neck that's
Speaker 2: gonna depreciate right in time.
Speaker 3: So you take that three.
Speaker 2: Hundred and you can go get four or five houses,
Speaker 2: put fifty thousand houses certain neighborhoods, and now you got
Speaker 2: income coming, equity building and everything like that. It's none
Speaker 2: of my business, but it does affect me in a way.
Speaker 2: When I see value around your neck, When I see
Speaker 2: generational wealth being put around your neck and hung up
Speaker 2: in the closet somewhere when you're not doing it, I
Speaker 2: see generation of will cause you gonna need it, right,
Speaker 2: you gonna need that money on right when you go
Speaker 2: buy what a Bentley or something like that, you see,
Speaker 2: if you can afford it, if you can afford it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the tricky part. Can you afford it?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 4: Not the floor.
Speaker 2: So but it's a short sport, it's a short game.
Speaker 2: It could end at any time, straight up, any time.
Speaker 2: I don't care how good you are.
Speaker 4: Anything.
Speaker 2: One wrong move, just be wrong, wrong punch in the
Speaker 2: wrong place, and it's a rap m you see, and
Speaker 2: you never recover from that. So no, I appreciate when
Speaker 2: you got out, and I don't ever have to look back,
Speaker 2: you know, are I used to tell you? I don't
Speaker 2: never wanna be a old coach on a stump sitting
Speaker 2: somewhere talking about man I should have done this cause
Speaker 2: I allow somebody to keep going.
Speaker 3: And getting brain damage. I don't care who it is.
Speaker 2: If I got guys in here now and it don't
Speaker 2: look like they got it, I'm gonna tell 'em. I
Speaker 2: don't care if you got a million dollar on the table,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you because I'm not gonna sell out
Speaker 2: to money.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I care about you.
Speaker 2: You're in a sport that you can get hurt, killed,
Speaker 2: and effect not only you, but your family and everything else.
Speaker 2: You know, So take the sport serious because it's a
Speaker 2: serious sport. It's a deadly sport. And then when you
Speaker 2: have ability and you going through the routines and everything
Speaker 2: and everything is shining your way, it's still something could
Speaker 2: show up.
Speaker 3: I don't know where.
Speaker 2: There's always somebody that's your kryptonite. Always somebody that's your ryptonite,
Speaker 2: and usually you meet them at the time that your
Speaker 2: skills are eroding. You see, what do great champions have
Speaker 2: to do to keep their name going. They gotta fight
Speaker 2: somebody that's more superior than them at the time. But
Speaker 2: their name brings the value. So they make money on
Speaker 2: their name because that's the only way they know how
Speaker 2: to make money. Because when they were making money, they
Speaker 2: never took the time to invest the money and learn
Speaker 2: how to make money make money for them, you know,
Speaker 2: they too busy party and too busy having a good time,
Speaker 2: too busy hanging around with a whole bunch of ten
Speaker 2: to twenty in the posse and things like that. But
Speaker 2: to each everyone, I don't knock it everyone's journey, I
Speaker 2: don't knock everyone's desires them how they want to get
Speaker 2: down but just being my age of seventy two and
Speaker 2: being around coming through the Civil rights era and things
Speaker 2: like that, and being around so many incarcerated kids, you know,
Speaker 2: I do have a desire in my heart to see
Speaker 2: these guys make it.
Speaker 3: I want to see them make it.
Speaker 2: I want to sear some stories, and man, I own
Speaker 2: the block, Terres Crowford owns the block, right. I hear's
Speaker 2: your core got houses and things like that. I want
Speaker 2: to hear those success stories that if it ends today,
Speaker 2: I got something.
Speaker 4: To fall back on. You know, and go to school.
Speaker 4: If you don't go to school, start reading everything insight,
Speaker 4: because if you could read and comprehend, you're gonna be
Speaker 4: able to make it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think the last thing you told me the night
Speaker 1: before I retire was and don't come back either. You said, yep,
Speaker 1: don't come back.
Speaker 3: Don't come back cause they gonn never be the same.
Speaker 3: You ain't never wanted me to come back.
Speaker 2: The only reason why I could see you coming back
Speaker 2: because you have to come back, right and you didn't
Speaker 2: have to come back, So don't come back. But if
Speaker 2: you sometimes you play games with yourself three or four
Speaker 2: months later, it could change. But I have definitely asked you.
Speaker 3: Are you sure? Are you sure?
Speaker 2: Because you was three months ago you weren't talking like this,
Speaker 2: but you're talking different today. But I know how fighters
Speaker 2: there change, right, because they go through these camp tired
Speaker 2: of these camps. I'm tired of being away from my family.
Speaker 2: I'm tired of the negative media. I'm tired of being
Speaker 2: shafted here, she afted there. I'm just tired. But then
Speaker 2: after a month, till you watch a fight on TV,
Speaker 2: he said, no, man, I'm gonna.
Speaker 3: Get back with it. Right.
Speaker 2: So, but when you retire on top, it's different. Everything
Speaker 2: else is beneath you. You don't have nothing else to prove.
Speaker 2: I proved it in my time frame. I don't have
Speaker 2: to prove it in yours. I don't have to prove
Speaker 2: it in nobody else's. I prove it in my time frame.
Speaker 3: That was my time, and I proved it. Yeah, So
Speaker 3: I don't have to go.
Speaker 2: See listening any more time or so listening any more
Speaker 2: approval from anybody.
Speaker 3: And I know.
Speaker 1: That where I left where I left off, any era
Speaker 1: type of fighter I could, I could fight in any era,
Speaker 1: any air that's right, not an era that that that's
Speaker 1: out there from a toughness standpoint and skill standpoint, h
Speaker 1: enduring standpoint like I feel like I'd have been a
Speaker 1: great fifteen round fire.
Speaker 4: And most important, your peers respect. You see, when you
Speaker 4: get respect from your peers, whether they like you or not,
Speaker 4: they gotta respect you.
Speaker 3: You know you did it right.
Speaker 2: You didn't cheat the game, you didn't cut no corners.
Speaker 2: You put everything you had in the game from the
Speaker 2: time it was nine years old. You put your whole
Speaker 2: life into it. Like you said before, you sacrifice the childhood.
Speaker 2: But what was there a childhood until God wanted you
Speaker 2: to be a man quick and by the time he
Speaker 2: was marriage was a man. But if you'd had other
Speaker 2: activities going on everything, you still might have been a
Speaker 2: playful guy around that time.
Speaker 4: So we can't ever question our journey. We just got
Speaker 4: to look back.
Speaker 2: Can make sure that people who are coming up behind
Speaker 2: us that seem to be on the path of the
Speaker 2: same journey I took. I could tell you where the
Speaker 2: pit stops are the pitfalls. I could tell you it
Speaker 2: don't go this way, man, I've been this way, don't.
Speaker 2: I could tell you all these things, whether they listen
Speaker 2: or not, as a different story. But if they don't
Speaker 2: listen and then encounter what you warned 'em about. Now
Speaker 2: that's a lesson right there for them to listen to you.
Speaker 2: Now you see what I'm saying. Be me telling you
Speaker 2: you was going downhill. That's something that you can actually validate.
Speaker 2: You can validate it, right because I saw it. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: I saw it, And but I knew my position. I
Speaker 2: knew I had to be there, and I dedicated myself
Speaker 2: to being there because I knew it was not in vain.
Speaker 4: I knew it was for nothing.
Speaker 3: I just knew it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So i'm'a say this and closing, man, you know
Speaker 1: I it's been you know man, I'm I'm super grateful, man,
Speaker 1: Like I can't even describe how grateful I am.
Speaker 3: To be.
Speaker 1: Tow as to have sparred and it fought as many
Speaker 1: rounds off fought and still be able to live to
Speaker 1: talk about it. Yeah, you know, and and be that
Speaker 1: example because I didn't have a lot of them examples
Speaker 1: as a professional.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, he got out on top, he got
Speaker 3: out on top, she got out on top. We ain't
Speaker 3: have a lot of that. It's tools and fuse.
Speaker 1: You know, you count on one hand, and I know
Speaker 1: that that what I did is gonna have to impact
Speaker 1: without generation. I don't care what people say, I don't
Speaker 1: care how they try to spend it. That's that's man.
Speaker 1: It's a handful of people.
Speaker 3: M h.
Speaker 1: Right, even Florida ain't even been able to stay away
Speaker 1: back yard, you know what I'm saying, all time great fighters,
Speaker 1: So it's a unique place. And then you see, you know,
Speaker 1: other generations, Terance coming behind me doing it, and then
Speaker 1: it's gonna continue to build. And I believe it's your
Speaker 1: cours and hopefully Devin Handy and other ones able to
Speaker 1: do the same thing, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: And I wish I was around the gym more, man V.
Speaker 4: It's just be tough sometimes, man, it's like you understand.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like you kind of mourning the career,
Speaker 1: like it ain't bad, but it's just I remember walking
Speaker 1: through these doors every single day, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: for some of the biggest moments of my life, and
Speaker 1: grinding on them heavy bags and in this ring and
Speaker 1: jump rope and right in front of that mirror, and
Speaker 1: it's like sometimes it's cool and it's like it give
Speaker 1: you life to be around fighters. Other time it's like, man,
Speaker 1: bro like, I'm never gonna do this again, you know.
Speaker 1: So if you don't see me a lot of times, man,
Speaker 1: that's a lot of what that is.
Speaker 4: Man, it's just be tough sometimes, you know. I understand.
Speaker 2: And the other part I understand that it's good you
Speaker 2: stay out the jail because it's a drug you start.
Speaker 3: It's just like any drug habits.
Speaker 2: You could kick the dope for ten years, but you
Speaker 2: go around it again, might get it, tempted to take
Speaker 2: a hit, you tempted to shoot something in your ard.
Speaker 3: So it's good you're not around it, right.
Speaker 1: I could out to do that one day off the
Speaker 1: couch and yeah, just get get it out of your system.
Speaker 5: Just it be it.
Speaker 2: You know, it's good to stay away. Once you're done,
Speaker 2: You're done. That chapter is closed. I'm on the bigger
Speaker 2: and better things. And I think that's, you know, some
Speaker 2: of the lessons that we gotta learn in life. When
Speaker 2: one chapter's closed, open up another one. I don't care
Speaker 2: how good I was. I don't care how good this
Speaker 2: chapter was, how much impact it had. I'm opening up
Speaker 2: another chapter because that part of my life is gone,
Speaker 2: you know, but it paid the way for the rest
Speaker 2: of my life. You see, what I'm saying. So when
Speaker 2: you have a chapter in life, make sure it's paving
Speaker 2: the way for your next chapter.
Speaker 3: And we're gonna leave it there. Man, I love you,
Speaker 3: appreciate you. Man.
Speaker 4: That's it.
Speaker 1: Man, were out of here for the art of ward Man.
Speaker 1: We're gonna catch you next time. Hope you all enjoyed
Speaker 1: that one.