1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Text Stuff, a production from my Heart Radio. 2 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio 4 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: and I love all things tech. And now we are 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: going to listen to a classic episode. This episode originally 6 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: aired on August twelve, two thousand. It is called how 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: bit torrent Works. So we actually get down to the 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: bottom of how torrents work and what's the big deal 9 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: about it? And why is it so controversial? And is 10 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: it at its heart illegal? All those sort of questions 11 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: are the things we ask and try to answer in 12 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: this episode. Hope you guys enjoy it. To start off, 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: we kind of need to talk about just how you 14 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: would typically get a file right, how how files are 15 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: transferred period at all? Under so the normal process by 16 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 1: either by by any of the protocols that you to 17 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: use over the internet, be the FTP or htt P 18 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: that's file Transfer protocol or Hypertext Transfer Protocol excellent acronyms. 19 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: So traditionally, your your computer, which in this scenario we 20 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: call the client, is going to contact a a host 21 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: computer a server in order to say, hey, I want 22 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,279 Speaker 1: that thing exactly ye whether that thing is a web page. 23 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: So if your web browser can be a client. Yeah, 24 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: that thing could be a web page. That thing could 25 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: be a music file, it could be a movie file, 26 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: it could be uh an email. It all depends on content, right, 27 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: that that you want to get. Um. The server would 28 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: then send the file to your computer according to whichever 29 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: protocol you are using, right, And it's using the basic 30 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: set of rules that we all know from the Internet, 31 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: the idea of everything's in packets. Those packets travel through 32 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: different routes and then they get reassembled on your computer. 33 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's essentially a one to one relationship, right, 34 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: I'm asking the server to send me something, the server 35 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: send something to the client. Done, done, and and you know, 36 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: and the speed with which this can happen depends on 37 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: the amount of traffic on the server, the size of 38 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: the file. Yeah. So let's let's boil this down to 39 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: an analogy. Alright, So, Lauren, you are a server, I 40 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: am yea. So now you have entered into the uh 41 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: the service industry. You are a server in a coffee shop. Okay, 42 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: you served terrible at that job, alright, but let's let's 43 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: imagine Lauren, that this is a reality where you're not 44 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 1: terrible at your job. You're actually pretty good. You can 45 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: serve up to three people simultaneously, so amazing, but only 46 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: three people and uh, and the amount of time it 47 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 1: takes you to produce the order for the customer depends 48 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: upon what they ordered, like what size of it and 49 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: how complicated is the drink. Obviously these things will factor 50 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: into how long it takes you to prepare it. But 51 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: you can still handle up to three. But then there's 52 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 1: a rush, right like, uh, I don't know, there's some 53 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,239 Speaker 1: hipster band is in town and everyone needs their coffee, 54 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: so they all rushed the coffee shop at the same time. 55 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: And now you've got twenty people asking you to make 56 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: very complicated drinks, but you can only serve three at 57 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: a time, and these drinks are getting progressively more complicated 58 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: and larger. Things start to slow down, so that person 59 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 1: who's you know, seventeen people back feels like they're waiting 60 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: forever to get a coffee, and they're thinking, what's the 61 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: big deal. It should only take It's just a coffee, 62 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: You should just take two minutes. I should be in 63 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: and out in two minutes, and instead I've been sitting 64 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: here for fifteen minutes and the lines barely moved. That's 65 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: the same thing we experience with this traditional approach. If 66 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: you're talking about a single server hosting a lot of files, 67 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: a lot of clients contacting the server for the files, 68 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: and those files are big, it just means that things 69 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: can get bottlenecked and slow down. So there were some 70 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: different approaches to trying to figure out how to make 71 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: this uh more streamlined, and but one way is to 72 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: just increase broadband speed. Right, So essentially, if you're talking 73 00:03:55,440 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: about the Internet being a series of tubes, that's it. Bigger, bigger, 74 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: longer tubes, more tubes, bigger tubes, and more tubes. Yeah, 75 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: those are your two choices, right. You make them bigger 76 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: so that you can shove more stuff through the tubes, 77 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: or you make a lot more of them so that 78 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: there are a new ways for it to pass through. 79 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: But you're still kind of ball necked by the the 80 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: server itself and how quickly it can respond to requests. Sure, 81 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 1: so if this approach is really slow, then one alternative 82 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: is to distribute a file across a network so that 83 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: you have lots of different options when you need to 84 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: get that file. Right, So in this instance, instead of 85 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: saying that Lauren is the only person who can serve 86 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 1: coffee within a twenty mile radius. And that's why we're 87 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: all kind of uh, you know, up the creek when 88 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: we walk into the coffee shop and we see there's 89 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 1: fifteen people ahead of Instead, we have a coffee shop 90 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: on every corner and across the street from each other, 91 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 1: and next door to one another. Their coffee shops everywhere. 92 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: So really I just have to walk into any coffee 93 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: shop and I can stand in the middle of the 94 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: street and shout coffee and someone will bring one. Right. 95 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: So that's that's kind of the idea of the peer 96 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: to peer network. In this sense, you have some form 97 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: of software that allows you to connect to a distributed 98 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: network where when you participate in this network, you're essentially 99 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: giving permission to access part of your hard drive. Yeah, 100 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: you just set aside a little folder on your hard 101 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 1: drive that is okay for this program to access, and 102 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: then everyone else who is running the same program also 103 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: has folders set up. Hopefully they have stuff in them, right, Yeah, 104 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 1: Because one thing you could do is you can set 105 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: up this folder and then immediately move stuff out of 106 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: the folder, and then you're leaching. That's the term, right, right, 107 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: it's it's considered a faux pas and in sharing circles 108 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: just because you're you're not putting anything back out into 109 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: the community. Right. So with peer to peer, let's say 110 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: you've got this folder that's designated as a shared folder, 111 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: and when you're connected to the software, anyone who's also 112 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: connected the software, when they're searching for a specific file, 113 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: if your file, if you happen to have that file 114 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: within your folder, you come up as an option to 115 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 1: connect to download from your computer. Now, the problem with 116 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: peer to peer, even it solves one issue, right, The 117 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: one issue is that if you go with the clients 118 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: server uh model, then you are limited by the server. 119 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: Like if the server is the only machine out there 120 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: that has an existing version of this file, then that's 121 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: the one destination you can go to, and you are 122 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 1: stuck with whatever problems that might have. In peer to peer, 123 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: you're adding more tubes, but you're not making them any bigger, right, 124 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: So in other words, like I could you know, if 125 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: we're going back to our coffee shop, example, and we 126 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 1: have these coffee shops everywhere, I can walk to the 127 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 1: coffee shop. That's closest to me, But there's no guarantee 128 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: that coffee shop won't have the world's slowest server, or 129 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: you know, like that someone who's just they they are 130 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: very meticulous about the way they make their coffee, or 131 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: there might be two or three people in front of 132 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: me at that coffee shop and I have to wait 133 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: for them. Anyway, it gives me more options, it does 134 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: not necessarily mean it will be faster, and the really 135 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 1: good software will identify the person with the best connection 136 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: who has that file exactly. Yeah, So that way it 137 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: gives you the best chance of having a smooth transfer. 138 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: And it's also good to note that this creates more 139 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: stability when you're trying to get a file. So the 140 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: other big issue with the old clients server approach is 141 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: that if that server suffers a problem, if it goes 142 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: down for some reason, power outage or whatever, then you're stuck. 143 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: You know, you don't you do not get that file. 144 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: And if you were trying to download a big file 145 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: and it was maybe seventy of the way done and 146 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: the power goes out, there's a chance that file could 147 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: get corrupted in the process, and then you have to 148 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: start all over again, right, which was a real bummer. 149 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: When peer to pier was was really big back in 150 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: the early two thousands, like late nineties, um, because you know, 151 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: it was about that modems that could that could handle 152 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: broader band than fourteen four it's became available for consumer purchase. 153 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: And after that, you know, when when people started getting 154 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: connected to the ethernet was really when peer to peer happened. Yeah, 155 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: and then you you were able to you know, one 156 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: of the downsides is that traditionally, with most Internet service providers, 157 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: your upload speed is a fraction of what your download 158 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: speed is. Right. The reason for that is that ages ago, 159 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: when companies began to offer internet service, they looked at 160 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: the broadband that they had available, like the bandwidth they 161 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: had available to the size of the tubes. Essentially, they're saying, 162 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 1: all right, here's here's what we are capable of delivering 163 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: to our customers. How are we going to determine how 164 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 1: much is down link versus uplink? And then they said, well, 165 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: you know, probably people aren't sending stuff up to the 166 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 1: Internet that frequently. They're mostly trying to consume stuff pull 167 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: stuff down. This was before we were uploading millions of 168 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: years worth of YouTube videos every second. Yeah, this was 169 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: This was back when that was not even a consideration. 170 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: So the idea was that, well, you know, we can 171 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: just make it a fraction upload speeds will be a 172 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: fraction of download because you there's nothing as frustrating really 173 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: as sitting down. Well this is probably that's that's exaggerating, 174 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: but it's very frustrating to sit down and try and 175 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: get at some sort of content online and then just 176 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 1: see either a buffering thing or a loading screen and 177 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: it just goes on forever. If you're talking about the 178 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: old old days of the Internet, there's nothing like trying 179 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: to look at a picture of something and watch it 180 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: slowly load pixel line by pixel line, and you're just thinking, 181 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: I have no idea what I'm looking at. I won't 182 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: know for another forty five minutes. I would I would 183 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: like the record to state that I just used I 184 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: just gestured at Jonathan to help you guys understand what 185 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,839 Speaker 1: he was talking about and exactly how ineffective that was. 186 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: That was a great visual representation on an audio podcast. Yeah, 187 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: so you know that this approach meant that we suddenly 188 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: had all these other options, this peer to peer approach, 189 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: and this is the way a lot of those file 190 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: sharing services back in the day worked because lime Wire, Napster, 191 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Yeah, it's all about let's find 192 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: people who have the stuff you want and connect this 193 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: create a connection directly to them. Yeah, so it almost 194 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: becomes like a direct phone line in a way, where 195 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: the connection is between the host computer and your computer, 196 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: so you can get the file and then of course 197 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: once you have the file, your computer can become a 198 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: potential host computer. So now an improvement on that was 199 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 1: bit torrents approach, right, and I think it will be 200 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: really interesting to get into the intricacies of how bit 201 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: torrent works. But before we do that, let's take a 202 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: quick break. Let's get back to the show. Alright, we're back, 203 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: and Lauren, you alluded to bit torrent. Now, this was 204 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: a totally different approach in the sense that it was 205 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: someone coming up with the idea of how can we 206 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: make these download speeds faster, not just more reliable so 207 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: that I have more options, but how can I get 208 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: the stuff I want faster, particularly if it's a really 209 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: large file, you know, and if you're if you're like 210 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: Jonathan said earlier, if your internet connection is maybe not 211 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: the best and something cuts out somewhere that you won't 212 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 1: lose all of the progress on downloading a file you 213 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: had already made. So this was the idea of a 214 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: programmer named Bram Cohen. Now, Bram Cohen had worked for 215 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: several dot com startups that never really took off, and 216 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: it just kind of failed over and over, and he 217 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: really wanted to work on something that worked. That was 218 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: a big ambition of his understandable And in two thousand 219 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: one he was also getting really irritated by these problems 220 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: we're talking about the slow download speed of large files. 221 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: He liked the idea of the peer to peer network, 222 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: but he didn't care for the execution. So in two 223 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: thousand one he begins work on a new protocol. Now 224 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: we've used the word protocol several times in this podcast, 225 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: just to remind you. A protocol really is just a 226 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: set of rules. It's kind of a kind of seven 227 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: instructions for a computer to follow. So he designed a 228 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: protocol that he called BitTorrent. Now, this was an attempt 229 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: to solve that connection problem um and the speed problem 230 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: at the same time. So you know, peer to peer 231 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: adjusted the connection. He wanted to do speed as well, 232 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: So how do you do that? Well. His approach was 233 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: to create this protocol that would allow files to be 234 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: distributed in pieces, and as you receive a piece, you 235 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: are also able to upload that piece even before your 236 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: file finishes downloading. So I might have a file that's 237 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: at twenty seven percent as it's slowly downloading, that twenty 238 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: seven is completely available for other people on the network 239 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: who are also trying to get that file. You could 240 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: also get pieces of these files from multiple sources, so 241 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: as long as everyone had the same file, then you 242 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 1: could get, you know, a piece here and a piece there. 243 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: So imagine that everyone has at least some part of 244 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: a five piece puzzle, and one person down the street 245 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: is giving you pieces uh one through twenty seven, and 246 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: someone on another side of the street is giving you 247 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: pieces forty three through and you're just getting You're getting 248 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: the whole puzzle, but you're getting them from different locations 249 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,839 Speaker 1: all at the same time. It's like it's like if 250 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: everyone in that in that coffee house street has a 251 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: cup of coffee and you just kind of run down 252 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: and they all pour a little bit into your cup. Right. Yeah, 253 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: it's similar to that, except except with less like gross 254 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: spittle contamination, and also there's a pretty design at the top. 255 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: I don't know how they managed that while you're running 256 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: down the street like a crazy person, but you know 257 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: they're talented, that's all. So he was thinking like this 258 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: would be the way of solving this problem of slow 259 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: download speeds. Now, he did not necessarily go about testing 260 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: this in a very scientific, scientific PC way. Did you 261 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: see how he tested Okay, folks, here's how he tested it. 262 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: He collected a batch of freely available pornographic material and 263 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: then invited beta testers to see about getting hold of 264 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 1: this stuff using the bit torrent protocol. Stay classy, cohen U. 265 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: But he figured that this was kind of a sure 266 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: fire away and because it was freely available stuff, it 267 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: wasn't like it wasn't copyrighted. He didn't have to worry 268 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: about running into problems with torrent systems have having fact 269 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: run into lots of copyright issues. We'll talk about that 270 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: towards the end of the show. You know, that's that's 271 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: a that's a totally different discussion. But he he he 272 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: wanted to try and test it out, and apparently that 273 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: wasn't considered a terribly auspicious beginning. But he eventually did 274 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: launch a working version of bit torrent for the general 275 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: public in October two thousand two. Now two years later 276 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: in two thousand four, he had a five person company 277 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: working on a search engine that would work alongside his protocol. 278 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: So he designed the protocol, but one of the issues 279 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: people were running into was how do you find the 280 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: torrent files which are pointer files. I'll talk about them 281 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: a little bit more in a second. How do you 282 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: find these files that the facilitate the downloading process when 283 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: you're you're actually using the bit torrent software, and this 284 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: is via a tracker server. Right, So he created he 285 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: worked with this five person company, actually five person company 286 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: worked for him to create the search engine that would 287 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: look for these torrents to help make this process work 288 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: more smoothly. Uh. He was also then looked at by 289 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: a little company called Valve. Yeah, so Valive. Valve is thinking, 290 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: you know, we want to do a downloadable distributed network 291 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: approach for our games. We want to have this ability 292 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: to deliver games to our users that is fast and 293 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: reliable and doesn't put a lot of pressure training on 294 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: our own servers. Right, we don't that way, we don't 295 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: have to build out a whole data center just to 296 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: support this this model, this distribution model. So they contacted 297 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: Cohen and they hired him to work on a platform 298 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: that we now call Steam. Cohen was one of the 299 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: people who helped build that program out, and it was 300 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: all because he saw what he was doing with bit torrent, 301 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: and they said, that's the approach we want to take. 302 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: And in fact, Valve and Blizzard are two companies that 303 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: use bit torrent for a perfectly legitimate means of distributing 304 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: their files. It's a good time to just mention there's 305 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: nothing illegal about torrent files. No, no, it's it's just 306 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: a matter of distribution. It's kind of like if you 307 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: were to say, yeah, but you can get illegal material 308 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: that way. You can get illegal material through the mail, 309 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: But you wouldn't say that means we should shut down 310 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: the postal service. You might say we should shed down 311 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: the postal service for other reasons, but not for that one. 312 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: And same sort of argument you could use for bit torrent, 313 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: like to say, let's get rid of bit torrent because 314 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: some people are sharing illegal files, even lots of people 315 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: sharing illegal files, doesn't mean that the tool itself is wrong, right. 316 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: The technology itself can be used for lots of really 317 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: cool things like yeah, like like letting people like Valve 318 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: put games up online without having to buy giant servers, 319 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: or independent artists put their music online, right right, Yeah, 320 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: And there there are a lot of reasons there their 321 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: entire you know, whether it's software or video files, music files. 322 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 1: You know, there are a lot of reasons why you 323 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: would want to take this approach. And uh, one of 324 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 1: the big ones is that it, like you said, it 325 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: takes the strain off the provider. Right. So, if I'm 326 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: a small business or an artist, an independent artist, I 327 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,719 Speaker 1: might not have the resources available to me to create 328 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: a dedicated server where people can come and download stuff, 329 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: especially if I'm having to pay lots of fees to 330 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: maintain that. And you know, I mean, you know, for example, 331 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: if you post some music to your personal website and uh, 332 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: Neil Gaiman or Will Wheaton link it on Twitter, and 333 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're completely overwhelmed. This, by the way, 334 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: is a complete invitation for both Will Wheaton and Neil 335 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: Gaiman to tweet about our podcast. We would love that. 336 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: That would be gorgeous. Um. Yeah, so I wouldn't even 337 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: know what to do with myself I would probably totally 338 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 1: flip out. No, I would totally flip out. I wouldn't 339 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,360 Speaker 1: probably there, there's no probably there. Yeah, Hey guys, it's 340 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: Jonathan again. We're gonna take another quick break and we 341 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: will be right back to talk more about bit torrent 342 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: in two thousand five. Already by this time, okay, the 343 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: bit torrents only three years old from when it officially launched. 344 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: Even by then, Hollywood had taken notice and was not 345 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: terribly happy. Yeah, the Motion Picture Association of America and 346 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: also the Recording Industry Association of America. That's um, the 347 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: m p A A and the R I double A. Yeah, 348 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: r I double A is is like, that's music. Essentially, 349 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: an m p A is film. So m P A 350 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: A UH in particular was concerned because the bit torrent 351 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: protocol did make moving large files much easier, which meant 352 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: that suddenly people were able to upload and download large 353 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: files like rips of films. They take a DVD and 354 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 1: ripped the film from the DVD and then share it 355 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: and you would get illegal copies. Or if you were 356 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: working on a digital film and you were part of 357 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: a digital film production and you had access to the file, 358 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: there were movies that leaked out. UM some famous instances 359 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 1: of movies that leaked out before they had even hit 360 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: the theaters, where people were getting hold of pirated copies, 361 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: and Hollywood was really taking him a bit torrent even 362 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: though again, as we said, bit torrents a tool, it's 363 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: not like it was specifically facilitating the illegal activity. However, 364 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 1: on November twenty two, two thousand five, Bram Cohen had 365 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: a joint news conference with the chairman of the m 366 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: p A A. Dan Glickman, and announced that he had 367 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,479 Speaker 1: agreed to prevent his own bit torrent website from linking 368 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: to torrents pointing to illegally available movies. Now, before that point, 369 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: their policy was that if they were alerted to a 370 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: torrent that linked to those pointing to they would take 371 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 1: it down. So that was there, that was their policy 372 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 1: all all long. But they said, well, now we're just 373 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: going to make sure that that's much more streamlined, which 374 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: if you've followed these kind of these kind of cases 375 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: not just with bit torrent, but with other providers, other 376 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: platforms like YouTube for example, there are examples of takedown 377 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 1: notices that were improperly UM dealt with Yeah, and probably 378 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: dealt with or improperly submitted people who didn't actually have 379 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: the rights to something demanding they get taken down, and 380 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: then it gets taken down um, and then there then 381 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: there's some embarrassing ones. I think Microsoft just recently issued 382 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: a takedown request to itself. Yeah, so sometimes these sort 383 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: of things can end up being kind of embarrassing. But 384 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,679 Speaker 1: he was saying that we want to you know, we 385 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: don't want to up so um. Today you can find 386 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 1: bit torrent on lots of different platforms. In fact, bit 387 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: torrent today allows you to do things like produce content 388 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: and then distribute it. So it's design more now to help, 389 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: like I said, those small businesses, the independent artists to 390 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: create content, and then even to to enable it so 391 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: it'll perform properly on things like smartphones, tablets, consoles, creating 392 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: a huge distribution network that people wouldn't have had access to, 393 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: you know, ten years ago. So there are many reasons 394 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 1: why it's a very useful tool. So let's talk a 395 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: little bit about how it actually does what it does now. 396 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: First of all, it's open source, which kind of tells 397 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: you that Cohen wasn't necessarily looking to create like a 398 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: a h multibillion dollar. This wasn't a commercial venture. No, 399 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: he wanted he really believed in this. And open source 400 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: means you can see the source code. You can go 401 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: and get the source code for the bit torrent, play 402 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: around with it. Yeah, you can change it. You can 403 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: make your own product based upon it. It's open source um. 404 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 1: And then there are sites that how torrent files. Torrent 405 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: files are not They don't have any material in them 406 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: other than pointer information that will point a your software 407 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: to the right destinations that will have the actual file 408 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 1: you're looking for. It's it's a little bit like that 409 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: that like a protocol that we were talking about, but 410 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: just in a in a file formata. It's and it's 411 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: kindlling meta data. It's it's information about the file you want, 412 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: the information mainly being where you can get it. Like 413 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 1: it's it's allowing the software that you have on your 414 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: computer and when when you when you run a program 415 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 1: to uh to to go go out and find the 416 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: little pieces of this file across the Internet, across the 417 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: swarm of computers that contain it. That's good. Yeah. So yeah, 418 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 1: your basic computer that has you know, the file, the 419 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: full file on it, you would call it a seed. 420 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: It's a seed computer. UM, and then the swarm is 421 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: all the different computers that connect to the network that 422 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: have some portion of that file and are actively downloading 423 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: and or uploading that file, that are also running this 424 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 1: this torrent sideway. Right, everything has to be working running 425 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: the software at the same time. If you stop running 426 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: the software on your computer, you disconnect from this network. 427 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: You're still on the Internet, but you're not part of 428 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: the bit torrent network anymore. So, Yeah, the torrent file 429 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: just kind of points the software in the right direction 430 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,239 Speaker 1: so you can get these pieces. It gives them the 431 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,959 Speaker 1: software the information it needs to identify and pull those 432 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:29,199 Speaker 1: those pieces of file into your computer. Classically, this is 433 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: all organized by a central server called a tracker like 434 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier. Um, these these days that's it's it's 435 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,679 Speaker 1: a little bit um has a little more complicated than that. 436 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 1: But yeah, your classic bit torrent has a tracker server 437 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 1: that kind of acts like a traffic driver, like it's 438 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: it's the one that's making sure everyone is going to 439 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: the right place. Um. And you're so you've got your seed, 440 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: you get your swarm. You are constantly downloading as long 441 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: as you're connected to this or downloading end upling as 442 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: long as you're connected to this, uh, this network. The 443 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: cool thing is with bit torrent that your download speeds 444 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,360 Speaker 1: depend upon your participation within the network. Right. You get 445 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: a rank based on how many files you are allowing 446 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 1: the system to upload from you, and and your and 447 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: your actual upload speed as well, So those two things 448 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: factor in. So if you are being you know, if 449 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 1: you're altruistic and you're sharing a lot, then you can 450 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: also download faster, right because your rank goes up, and 451 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 1: that means that your download speed's improve and so you 452 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: don't have to wait eight hours to get you know, 453 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: that music file you wanted to get. It will download 454 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: in a matter of minutes maybe or or faster, depending 455 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: upon your broadband speed and the speed of course of 456 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: the various computers that are hosting pieces of that file. 457 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 1: But it does mean that you go much faster than 458 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: you would with your traditional peer to peer or client 459 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: server relationship kind of a protocol. You end up getting 460 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: the pieces of the file you need, and then once 461 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,959 Speaker 1: you've got all the pieces you you're good to go. 462 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 1: So you don't have to depend upon on computer and 463 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: its connection to the network. You're depending upon the entire 464 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: network and anyone who has pieces of that particular file. Now, 465 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: like we said, there's nothing illegal about this. This is 466 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: just a distribution network. So if your file that you're 467 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 1: distributing doesn't have any sort of copyright to it, or 468 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: if it's licensed under something like creative comments, that gives 469 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: the person who has the file the the ability to 470 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: distribute it however they like, then there's no issue there. 471 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: That's completely legal, and in fact, that might even be 472 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 1: the intent of that content. You know, the person who 473 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: made it. Maybe I want this to be shared with 474 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,959 Speaker 1: as many people as possible. That's why I uploaded it 475 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: to the bit torrent network. Uh. However, it does also 476 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: mean that it can create an environment that allows for 477 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: illegal sharing in a way that is a lot more 478 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: difficult to fight than the client server approach, right right, 479 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: Because it's not located in a single place. You can't 480 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: go knock on one particular person's door and say you're 481 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: holding this file. Because it's spread out over so many 482 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: people that exactly, Okay, it's a lot harder to trace back. 483 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 1: I can't go into Lauren's coffee shop and tell her 484 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: that she has to stop serving this one type of 485 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: coffee if everyone around her is serving that same type 486 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: of coffee. It doesn't do any good, right, right, same 487 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: sort of thing. Yeah, so this is although I mean, 488 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: I don't know you could. You can make some arguments 489 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: that even even the illegal portions of torrenting are beneficial 490 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: in a way because you know, first of all, it's 491 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: it's made the industry um create its own legal ways 492 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: of distributing files the faster, you know. I I think 493 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,479 Speaker 1: that the direct streaming on like Netflix and Amazon Instant 494 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff is of direct response. I 495 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,360 Speaker 1: agree to torrenting. I agree. And it also means that, 496 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: you know, encouraging the studios to find new ways to 497 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: get content to two people who who want excellent to 498 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: buy it. Let me give you my money. They're eager 499 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: to participate in this. If you make it easy enough 500 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: and you don't price gouge, then you're not really inspiring piracy. 501 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: There's also been several surveys of varying reliability that have 502 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,239 Speaker 1: suggested that people who pirate stuff also tend to be 503 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 1: some of the it's right right, which, you know, people 504 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: who are torrenting are probably more likely to buy things 505 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: online than your average consumer anyway, because they're more computer 506 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: and internet savage to begin with. But but you know, 507 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 1: but the number that gets tossed around a lot is 508 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: from a study by the American Assembly, which is connected 509 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: to Columbia University. So it's more or less on the 510 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: up and up. Yeah, this is that that's a that's 511 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: a fairly reputable institution. They at least call themselves nonpartisan. 512 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: They do, they do have a little bit of a 513 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: liberal slant, I would say, but um, but they found 514 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: that peer to peer file shared users purchase more music 515 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: online than non peer peer us. And then of course 516 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 1: there's also the argument that a lot of these organizations 517 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: make the mp A A in r I double A 518 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: is that UH stolen property UH directly translates to lost revenue. 519 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 1: And we've seen multiple studies, including studies that were specifically 520 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: UH funded by the government, you know, the government agencies 521 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: that looked into this to see how much, how how 522 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 1: much in damage is really is caused by piracy and 523 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: the conclusion is that you cannot come up with a 524 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: number because you cannot say for certain that someone who 525 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: pirates something would have purchased that something had they not 526 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 1: had access to the piracy software. And furthermore, that they're 527 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 1: not going to go out and purchase it afterwards that 528 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: they weren't trying before they bought it. Right, So in 529 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: both cases, you don't know if they went out and 530 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: bought it anyway, and you don't know if they would 531 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: have bought it. So without knowing those two factors, you 532 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: can't say that this actually cost anybody anything. And and 533 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: you know, it's not like a physical copy of something, 534 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: where if I walk into a store and a shoplift, 535 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: that store is out a physical piece of inventory. When 536 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: you download a digital file, you're making a copy of something. 537 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: The original version of that file is still on a 538 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: person's computer somewhere else, so it's not like they have 539 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: lost that. So with all of these factors, it really 540 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: means it's so complicated that we cannot put an actual 541 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: dollar amount. Not that that has stopped anyone from doing 542 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: so when creating massive lawsuits against either a company that 543 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: creates the software or the users of that software. Absolutely, 544 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: And we we will talk a little bit about that 545 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: in a future episode that you'll hear probably in just 546 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: a couple of days, because I think we're recording get 547 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: immediately after we finished this one. Yes, we're talking about 548 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: a specific right, um, My favorite unofficial study. By the way, 549 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: is an anecdote on the effects of purchasing and and 550 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: free downloads. Was when uh Neil Gayman in his publisher, 551 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: which I believe in this case is HarperCollins, um put 552 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: up a copy of American Gods for free wo and 553 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: just just free ebook download. Go do it, people, And 554 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: I don't think it's up anymore. I might you might 555 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: not be able to find it. I could have just 556 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: lied to you tremendously. But they had. They had a 557 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: free copy at for a certain period of time, and 558 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: sales increased, definitely increased, like appreciably increased in the immediate 559 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: future after it was up. I will say that, um there, 560 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: you know, And I've told this story several times in 561 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: the past, so you know I'm comfortable telling it again. 562 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: Uh the you know, I I definitely was one of 563 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: the people who downloaded something outside the realm of the law. 564 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: Because I downloaded a television show that was made in 565 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: England that was not available in the United States. There 566 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: was no way for me to purchase it legally. Not 567 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: that that justifies illegal behavior. It doesn't. So I'm still 568 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: in the wrong, you know, I'm still in the wrong 569 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: for doing it, but I downloaded Space the show that 570 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: eggar right and Simon peg and and several other people did, 571 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: and uh, and I loved it, but you know, there 572 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: was no way for me to lead to get it 573 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: in the United States at that time as soon as 574 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: it became available as the day that it came out 575 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: on DVD and purchase it because I loved it, I 576 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,479 Speaker 1: wanted to support it, and I wanted to have a 577 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: really good copy of it. Um. That's another reason that 578 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: things that like the studio backed stuff is getting more 579 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: popular because the quality tends to be better and you 580 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: don't have to worry about like malware is usually unless 581 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: the d r M is also malware. Sony, I'm looking 582 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: at you. Um it's been much better recently, by the way, 583 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: but you know that that CD thing still sticks in 584 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: my craw. I think even classically though that I mean, 585 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: you know, this conversation is reminding me of you know, 586 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: how used to go to NERD conventions and they would 587 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: have all of these illegal Hong Kong VHS tapes of 588 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: various UM did Battle Royal that way, But I bought 589 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: that as soon as it came available to and and 590 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: I think that similarly that really that kind of underground 591 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: black market VHS sort of thing. Aside from inciting nostalgia, 592 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: people of a certain age really pushed movie companies to say, oh, hey, 593 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: there's there's a reason, like there's a reason for us 594 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: to publish this in America or in other countries outside 595 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: of their original origin. People love this, there is a 596 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: market for it. We can you know, if we provide 597 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: it and we price it properly, we will make money. 598 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: Like that's that's the lesson that a lot of these 599 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: companies have learned. Uh. And people can argue that, you know, 600 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: these are things that various industries have had to learn 601 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: uh in a staggered amount, So like the music industry 602 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: learned it first, and now the book industry also because 603 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: with the books that definitely raised it. But as broadband 604 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: speeds have improved for the common users. So so it's interesting. 605 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: I mean, and again, you know, BitTorrent is just a 606 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: means of distribution. You don't necessarily have to have it 607 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: be something where you're pirrating movies and tv um um. 608 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: There there is a little bit of a fight back. 609 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 1: As of April of teen, McAfee head patented a system 610 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: that identifies pirated content and can prevent users from downloading 611 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: it by UM either blocking it entirely depending on how 612 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: you set up the software UM it's it's through side advisor, 613 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: So depending on how you set up side advisor, it 614 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: would either block the software entirely UM or block the 615 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: download entirely I'm sorry, or just give you a little 616 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: pop up window that says, Hey, it looks like you're 617 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: trying to use a torrent file that is torrenting illegally 618 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: copied material. Do you really want to do that? Maybe 619 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: here's some legal alternatives that you could use to download 620 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: that that on the up and up. And that wraps 621 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: up this classic episode of text Stuff how bit torrent works. 622 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: Hope you guys enjoyed it. If you have any suggestions 623 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: for future topics I should cover on the show, reach 624 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: out to me on Twitter or Facebook. The handle for 625 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: both of those is text Stuff hs W and I'll 626 00:33:52,920 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: talk to you again really soon. Text Stuff is an 627 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio production. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, 628 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 629 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:09,800 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.