1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: I'm pleased to be joined today by Steven Beschloss. We're 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: going to have a conversation about what's going on all 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: around America. Stephen, Good to see you. Good to see you, Steve. 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: We haven't done this for a while. I'm happy we're 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: doing it today. So there's a few things to talk about. 6 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: I suspect, how do you think about the journey the 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: country went on over the summer. I tend to look 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: at the seasons as a middle aged guy, you know, 9 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: through the prism of my political years. Right, Labor Day 10 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: has a very specific meaning. November is the election, you 11 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: got Christmas time, the kids are back in school in September, 12 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 1: you know, summer and fall or baseball season. 13 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 2: But when you look. 14 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:58,279 Speaker 1: At Trump raises his hand on January twentieth, you go 15 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: from January twentieth the Memorial Day, right from Memorial Day 16 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: to Labor Day. What happened in the country from Memorial 17 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 1: Day to Labor Day this summer? 18 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting, you know, I would say, and I've 19 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 2: been thinking about it mostly in the context of why 20 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 2: people haven't been more active and being out in the 21 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 2: streets more. I mean, we did have the no Kings protests, 22 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 2: that happened in June that was a reason for optimism. 23 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: Something like five million people came out across the country. 24 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 2: That start needs to be more than double than that, surely, 25 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 2: if you go by the three point five percent rule, 26 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 2: twelve million of the population as a sort of a baseline. 27 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 2: But you know, I mean just to talk about sort 28 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: of the general mood. You know, my my concern has 29 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 2: been that the regime has been busy pursuing it tapeful 30 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: agenda without a day off in the daily onslaught all 31 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 2: through this period. And you know, and Americans have been 32 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 2: going about their regular normal lives those who can, uh, 33 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 2: not actually necessarily engaging, not necessarily recognizing what JB. Pritzker, 34 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 2: Illinois governor, you know, rightly calls a five alarm fire. Uh. 35 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 2: You know, a certain number of people who have understood 36 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 2: that it's not business as usual, but it's you know, 37 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: it's honestly been disappointing to me that there hasn't been 38 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 2: you know, sort of more you know, more collective fury, 39 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: more recognition of collective power that Americans have. And you 40 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 2: know we've seen it in in very you know, specific 41 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: and small ways. But you know, I wonder whether you know, 42 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 2: as you're suggesting, at one level, it's the normal rhythms 43 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: of the summer that that people are treating. You know, 44 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: our world is if it's just you know, a normal 45 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 2: time somehow, at least in terms of you know, the 46 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 2: ways that they've chosen to engage or not to engage. 47 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 2: You know. My feeling from some of my own subscribers is, 48 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 2: you know, people are you know, they're they're furious, They're 49 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 2: they're fearful, you know, they're worried. You know, they're outrage 50 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 2: they are all of those things. But but I feel 51 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 2: like the last months have been almost more a period 52 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 2: I was going to say digesting. But but in some ways, 53 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: and this is what concerns me, is that it's been 54 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 2: a period of adaptation. People sort of using the rhythms 55 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 2: of the of the summertime and wanting to have a 56 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: little time to you know, manage their exhaustion and uh. 57 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 2: And therefore it becomes a perfect time for you know, 58 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: a military occupation in d C. Or you know, planning 59 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: planning a military occupation in Chicago and so forth. I'm 60 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: glad at least that's coming. If it's coming soon, looks 61 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 2: like it's a question of days. I'm happy it's coming. Uh, 62 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: you know September when people are back to work. You know, 63 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 2: that's sort of where you were going with this. But yeah, 64 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 2: and where are you right now? Just outside of New York? Okay, 65 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 2: in New York. Have you been to d C since 66 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 2: any of this started once? Yeah? Yeah, what was your 67 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: impression of that? Uh, you know, streets emptier than usual, 68 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 2: uh uh. And and conversations with friends you know, very 69 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 2: much of like you know, they're not recognizing their city. Uh. 70 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 2: You know, not only you know every day Washingtonian's not there, 71 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 2: but but you know, tourism down all of that, you know, 72 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: as if that there aren't and weren't going to be 73 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 2: incredible impacts on you know, people who want to actually 74 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 2: come to America or come to you know, the nation's capital. 75 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 2: So uh, you know, I find that disparity and an 76 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 2: emblematic of you know, you want to live in an 77 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: authoritarian country. You know, the life on the streets becomes 78 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 2: in some ways very dull. 79 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: To what degree do you connect your observation about people 80 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 1: in the country and the experiences that they're that they're having. So, 81 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: you know, this summer out in the United States, you 82 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: go down the street in any one of a number 83 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: of places I was at. You are seeing people go 84 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: about doing the things they always do. Right Sidewalk cafes 85 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 1: are filled, people are out, They're doing stuff. ICE is 86 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: operating in neighborhoods, in pockets of the of the country, 87 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: in in Los Angeles. You know, if you live in Cincinnati, 88 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: you know you're not You're not living under a military 89 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: occupation like in d c. Uh. Now, if you're a 90 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: South Carolina guard member or married to one, right, you 91 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: know you may be unhappy that your guard member is 92 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: up there mulching the plant beds in in in Washington, 93 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. But but most, but most people 94 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: haven't haven't experienced this. What they do experience is a 95 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: reality show that broadcasts like the Yuloc twenty four to 96 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: seven over a couple of channels. It's the Headwaters of 97 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: the River, It's Fox News, It's Newsmax, It's CNN. CNN 98 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: has a minuscule audience, but the clips go out. And 99 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: what Trump does is he assembles around his desk in 100 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: the Oval office or one of his couple of other sets, 101 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: a very pliant media. He makes pronouncements without challenge and it, 102 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: it and it and it flows out, and so you 103 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: can you can relate to what's going on around Trump 104 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: through the prism of, well, this is what he's saying 105 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: and this is what he's doing. And I take everything 106 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: he says literally and seriously, and I pay close attention. 107 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: So I'm very disturbed. But if you don't take everything 108 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: he says literally and seriously, and you don't pay that 109 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: much attention, you haven't seen the things that we're exposed 110 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: to that that worry about so much. So I wonder 111 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: to the degree that our anxiety is heightened because we're 112 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: closely attuned to this guy's reality show, Well that's no question. 113 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: I mean, look, uh, you know yesterday. 114 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 2: Was uh, you know, the display of collective power, collective 115 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: power of you know, dozens of of victims of Jeffrey 116 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 2: Epstein and uh you know who felt the ability to 117 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 2: come together and speak and to do so uh maybe 118 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 2: with a with a sense of you know, uh more 119 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 2: fair listeners than they would if they were individuals. For 120 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 2: for all the reasons we know, including you know, some 121 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 2: of them are being worried about, uh death threats and 122 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 2: you know, the threat of being killed at the worst 123 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: and and you know, billion dollar lawsuits at at an 124 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 2: at another level. So there's that kind of collective power 125 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 2: which was for anybody who paid attention to it, I 126 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 2: think it was important and meaningful and and touching and 127 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 2: and made clearic why why in the world, I mean, 128 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 2: how is it possible that there is this cover up 129 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 2: that's had? And I mentioned that because who didn't even 130 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 2: show what happened yesterday? Fox News Nation, I at least 131 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 2: know those two they didn't even cover it, didn't cover 132 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 2: the Apstein, right, the press conference that happened, of all 133 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: the survivors, as if it's not an issue, right, as 134 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 2: if it's nothing to worry about. So, you know, in 135 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 2: some ways, I think this is the you know, this 136 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 2: is a part of the pattern that at least goes 137 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 2: back to the election, where we learned that these kind 138 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 2: of information silos, the kind of separate, separated ecosystems of 139 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 2: how people you know, get information or for that matter, 140 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 2: don't get information, get misinformation, and had a lot to 141 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 2: do with what the results of the election were. I mean, 142 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 2: you know, there was that data that showed that something 143 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 2: like fourteen people were more fourteen percent more likely to 144 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 2: vote for Kamala Harris if they paid attention to the 145 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 2: political news, they were roughly the same percentage less likely 146 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 2: to vote for her to vote for Trump if they 147 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 2: knew nothing about the political news. So, you know, the 148 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 2: the degradation of factual reality has been an ongoing effort, 149 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 2: you know, a methodical, systematic effort. You know, Trump Trump 150 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 2: is a depraved, degraded, sick, deranged person and a pathological 151 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 2: liar and a level of insanity beyond which the country 152 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 2: has never experienced before. And the consequence of that is 153 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 2: that it's degraded people's capacity to know what's true and 154 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 2: what's false, what's right and what's wrong, and you know, 155 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 2: and maybe the worst in some way sort of to 156 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 2: to to your point, you know, what's normal and what's crazy. 157 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 2: So so the repetition, it's an old part of the 158 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 2: you know, the dictator playbook, to repeat over and over 159 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 2: and over, lies, over and over and over the messages 160 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 2: you want people to hear. And you know, those at 161 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 2: least are getting on Fox, which ensures that his audience, 162 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 2: you know, here's what he wants them to hear. So 163 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 2: you know they're they're you know, they're not worried the 164 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 2: way that you and I are worried continuously. And can 165 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 2: I say one more thing if you go back, you know, 166 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 2: there's a book, and I'm forgetting the name offhand. I 167 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 2: believe the author's name is like Milton Meyer, who did 168 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: interviews with former Nazis with Germans in nineteen fifty four, 169 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 2: about nine years after the end of the war. And 170 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: they were mostly everyday people, right, you know, a baker 171 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 2: and a shoemaker and people who did sort of everyday 172 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:53,079 Speaker 2: jobs who had you know, maybe they met a Jew 173 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 2: in their life. They hadn't met many, you know, maybe 174 00:11:55,880 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 2: they had heard heard something about what had happened, but 175 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 2: they basically described it all through the war. I mean, 176 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 2: of course they had all the issues around food shortages 177 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 2: and all that, but they never felt they were they 178 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,719 Speaker 2: never experienced, you know, the atrocities in any sense. They 179 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 2: never really understood what what was at issue because it 180 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 2: didn't touch their everyday life. 181 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 1: I when when you look at this, when you look 182 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: at this moment, for me, I've been I've been angry, 183 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: a fair amount furious, but I have only been brought 184 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: to depression once. And it wasn't by Maga. It was 185 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: it was by the Democrats and and the people that 186 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:55,599 Speaker 1: depressed me and really dispirited me. Or the Texas Democrats, 187 00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: the legislators and like made me want to cry. You 188 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: have a threat that's so great, the aggression the mid 189 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: decade redistricting. 190 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 2: Which. 191 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: Is an aim to distort the results of the election 192 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: to steal these seats. It destabilizes the whole, the whole 193 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: of democracy. And these Democrats understood that, and they left 194 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: the state to deny a quorum, and they returned in 195 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: twelve days. And the thing that they fled was real, 196 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: and what was required was for them to stay there 197 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: till December eighth. 198 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they didn't. 199 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: And they came back, and you got one guy who 200 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: compared himself to Jesus, James Tallerico and the turning over 201 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: of the money changers tables, that's what that's what he 202 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: thought he was doing in Chicago. After twelve days, Abbot 203 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: achieves the result and they go back and declare themselves 204 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: Jesus in Tula Rico's case, heroes and victors. And I 205 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: don't know how to fix that. 206 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's clear that they had to stay away 207 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 2: long enough so that the Republicans wouldn't get their quorum. 208 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 2: And it's I mean it's interesting that that's sort of 209 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 2: the thing that got to you because I think there's 210 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 2: been a lot of failure, there's been a lot of 211 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 2: failure at every level of recognizing the five alarm fire, right, 212 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 2: recognizing sort of the urgency of the moment and the 213 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 2: reality that is this as usual is not the way 214 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 2: to do things. And you know, I every time I 215 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 2: hear somebody talking about the midterm elections or you know, 216 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 2: looking at a Gavin Newsom and a JB. Pritzker who 217 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 2: have stood up, and the conversation quickly goes to the 218 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 2: twenty twenty eight presidentially on a screen. Yeah, I mean, 219 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 2: what world do they think they're living in right now 220 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 2: that we can imagine that kind of business as usual 221 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 2: and as if those those dates are not lifetimes from now. 222 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 2: So so the sense of you know, people sort of 223 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 2: slipping into their normal modes, it's it's almost the same 224 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 2: point we're making about summertime, right that you know, people 225 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 2: get into their natural rhythms and it's really hard to 226 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 2: disrupt that. I think that's where you know, Trump, the 227 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 2: Texas Republicans, the Republicans in general, you know, they understand 228 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 2: they can act shamelessly, they can act illegally they can 229 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 2: continue to, you know, with some sort of limits from 230 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 2: from the judges that they've been still kind of taking 231 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 2: people out of the country without due process, that they 232 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 2: can do all these things because there's a limit on 233 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 2: how much it seems that both the elected officials and 234 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 2: the general public is willing to to disrupt the way 235 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 2: they've been doing things always. And you know, look, I've 236 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 2: talked before about I think with you about sort of 237 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 2: normalcy bias, right, people not wanting to think that it's 238 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 2: really a catastrophe, it's really a disaster, that it's really I. 239 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: Just, I just I don't mean to cuy you off. 240 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: I always read the comments and I'm seeing, Dorian, that's absurd. 241 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: No one sounds like a Republican here and like that 242 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: to me, right, is that if we can't talk about 243 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: this right because of the brittleness of you know, which 244 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: we find them in our audiences, but the brittleness of 245 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: whatever person and set that off to this conversation, we 246 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: sound like Republicans. You can't have it. They're going to 247 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: shut you down, shout you down, shut you up, control 248 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: the contours of the of the debate. And I can't 249 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: fit that means the country's gone. Well, if that's if 250 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: that's the takeaway for for what for what we're talking 251 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: about right now, is that you, I mean you, I 252 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer is the most ineffective political leader of my 253 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: lifetime or not. 254 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, But but again, I think the thing that I 255 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 2: want to, you know, say, whether it's sort of that 256 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 2: that listener or otherwise, you know, I don't think that 257 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 2: you or I that the goal here is to condemn democrats. 258 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 2: The point is that we're asking we're asking democrats, and 259 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 2: we're asking Americans who still believe in democracy and care 260 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 2: about the country's survival and and and who recognize the 261 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 2: series of this moment to actually act in new ways 262 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 2: and and act in a level of defiance that has 263 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 2: the ability to genuinely and meaningfully push back against this regime. 264 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 2: And so you know, for me anyway, I mean the 265 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 2: and I've gotten the same thing. I mean, I will 266 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 2: say early on and this is a blue sky thing. 267 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 2: I you know, at some point after the election, I 268 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 2: said it was really a simple point, which was like, 269 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 2: you know, it was disappointing that that I hadn't heard 270 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 2: more from Kamala Harris that I was sort of surprised 271 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 2: by her relative silence and the level of attack that 272 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 2: came against me for daring to question her. You know 273 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 2: who was I to dare to question her? And you know, frankly, 274 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 2: it got into all kinds of issues. You know, as 275 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 2: a white person, how dare I? And and you know, 276 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 2: as a male, how dare I? And you know all 277 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 2: of this? And look, I honestly feel like there's an agree. 278 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 2: Don't blame Biden? What's that? 279 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: I saw one person? Don't blame Biden? I mean, why not? 280 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:08,959 Speaker 1: Why not? 281 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 2: He lost? He lost to Donald Trump. 282 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: A two year old man who was unfit, and this 283 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: is the consequence. Yeah, but but he has no but 284 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: he has no accountability for it. Look, I think that 285 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: I think that the for me, the fatal flaw. And 286 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: I'm happy to dig into this. I try not to 287 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: litigate too much the last four years. But but the 288 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: thing I surely can't get over is the fact that 289 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: he made the fatal decision of putting in in the 290 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: office Merrick Garland as the U as the Attorney General. 291 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 1: And Merrick Garland and I'm sure Biden thought this was 292 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: a good idea, was to have an institutionalist who was 293 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: going to represent the values and try to resituate the 294 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: values of the Department of Justice and the judicial system, 295 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: which sounds fine, but it translated into dragging his feet 296 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: and dragging his feet promising that he was going to 297 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:13,199 Speaker 1: engage the you know, the January sixth, and to pursue 298 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: justice at every level as the facts dictated. 299 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 2: And he never got there. And and you know that 300 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 2: that is a fatal flaw that we are going to 301 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 2: pay for, you know, the country will pay for forever, 302 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 2: you know, not not holding you know, not holding the 303 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:36,199 Speaker 2: guy who incited that that deadly violent insurrection accountable and 304 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 2: at least ensuring that he would never be able to 305 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 2: hold public office again. I don't I don't think there's 306 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 2: there's anything more. This is why this matters so much. 307 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: Is that going back to your to your earlier point 308 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: about the allergy of the self interest that every time 309 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: a democratic leader lead right and leading in this moment, 310 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: demands standing up to these aggressions against against our liberty, 311 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: but immediately right the act, which should be focused on 312 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: stopping the aggression becomes well, let's put this through the 313 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: prism of how it ranks in twenty twenty eight, right 314 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: or twenty twenty six and whatever, whatever the politics are, 315 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: and what matters in this moment isn't an empty victory, 316 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: but a restorative victory which demands that things be set right. 317 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: So the lesson of what happened with Merrek Garland needs 318 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: to be appreciated. And there can never be an instant 319 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: again where the Democratic Party right facing off against MAGA 320 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: is viewed as the dishonest party in the electoral competition. 321 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: And that is why Trump won, the most prolific liar 322 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 1: in American history, was viewed as more honest about Biden's health, 323 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:20,959 Speaker 1: the border, and the economy. And because of that, we 324 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: are on the edge of losing the country. And what 325 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: is required is a plan that is deeper than we win, 326 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: they lose. So, for instance, within thirty seconds of a 327 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: Democratic president being sworn in, I mean before the speech, 328 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: before the gun salute is over, Cash Betallo is fired. Right, 329 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: there are twenty pieces of paper that the president signs 330 00:22:54,760 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: before he says his first word to the country. Right, 331 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: it's it's that the plane that the Qataris have gifted 332 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: Trump is seized at the Air Force base and dropped 333 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: into the Atlantic Ocean. That the documentation right of who 334 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: did what and who in the type of investigation, the 335 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: gutting of these federal police agencies that have completely lost control, 336 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: I the reforms, the decimation of the public health services, 337 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: the disasters ahead to take decades to clean the destruction 338 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: of higher education as a as a daily thing, if 339 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: it can be cleaned up. Yeah, To rebuild, rebuild a 340 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 1: judicial system that's been under constant attack by these people 341 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: who use it against against the Americans and against the law. 342 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 2: You know. I also want to say that now I've 343 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 2: been paying attention. I've been paying attention to the nerve. 344 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 2: I've been reading it about the neuroverb trials, and I've 345 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 2: been specifically doing that as a as a hopeful gesture 346 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 2: to remember that there was a period where, you know, 347 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 2: at least a certain number of the leadership of the 348 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 2: Nazi Party were held accountable, you know, Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler, 349 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 2: they had already committed suicide. But you know, Garing was 350 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 2: was one of eleven that had been convicted and were 351 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 2: set to be hanged on October sixteenth. He committed suicide 352 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 2: by fotassium cyanide tablet the day before. But some were 353 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 2: some were held accountable, some were executed in the gymnasium 354 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 2: where the trial had taken place. And you know, it's 355 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 2: it's weird to say it's it's uplifting reading, but it's 356 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 2: uplifting reading in some ways, almost like watching you know, Downfall, 357 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 2: the film about the last days of Hitler and the Bunker. 358 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 2: You know, uplifted me because it at least gave the 359 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 2: sense that he understood how profoundly he had failed and 360 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,239 Speaker 2: what an incredible loser he was, and that everything that 361 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 2: he had planned for the thousand year Reich had turned 362 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:35,120 Speaker 2: to shift. And so you know, I'm not about vengeance 363 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 2: and I'm not about retribution, but I am about justice. 364 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 2: And I think that we're in this mess we're in 365 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,640 Speaker 2: right now because the people who should have been held 366 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 2: accountable on January sixth, and I'm talking about levels beyond 367 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 2: the foot soldiers should have been held accountable and it 368 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 2: didn't happen. And I think it's clear that you know, 369 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 2: whoever it is that comes forward in these in these 370 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 2: next years, I think that that's got to be part 371 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 2: of the program. 372 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: I'm going to send you a I'm going to send 373 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 1: you a gift after this. There is and I've written 374 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: about this. There is a I collect old Life magazines 375 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: and when I'm when I'm home in my lair where 376 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: I where I do these from. You know, people who 377 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: watch this have seen a couple of them and have 378 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,959 Speaker 1: them set up behind me. But one of my favorite 379 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: Life magazines, and the great thing about reading the Life 380 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,959 Speaker 1: magazines is that not only do you know what happens next, 381 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 1: but you know what happens next for the next eighty 382 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: years and so so in nineteen thirty eight, Life Magazine 383 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: comes out in thirty seven, and then thirty eight Life 384 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: turns too and it is a huge hit. It can't 385 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: keep them on shelves and consistent with the media through 386 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: this hour. On the cover of this second anniversary of 387 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: Life is a toddler with a birthday cake two Because 388 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: in that moment, of course, right what is the news? 389 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: The news is about the media. The media is always 390 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: the most important. So in November of thirty eight, Life 391 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:19,120 Speaker 1: celebrates Life. But you look inside the magazine, and in 392 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 1: that magazine are the first images of the crystal Knocht 393 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: that an American audience sees in the photos, and you 394 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: even see some pictures of Americans and churches praying for 395 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 1: the Jews. Next story in the Life magazine is Hitler 396 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 1: and Gurring are at Gurring's nieces christening. And so you 397 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: see Hitler and Gurring and all the children in church, right, 398 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 1: and this should be like Trump and Hagsath right, going over, 399 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: going over somewhere to a christening. And then in nineteen 400 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: forty six you have an addition. There's a Palestinian on 401 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: the cover. Right, it says Palestine, and it is about 402 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: the struggle, the fight, the war that rages to this day. 403 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 1: But in the middle of that, in the middle of 404 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: that magazine, you get a last look at the Nazis, 405 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: and you get to see all of those eleven laid 406 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 1: out in their boxes after they got after they got hunked. 407 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: And so you can see the center page of that 408 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: that Life magazine is all the dead Nazi leaders. Robert Jackson, 409 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: who was a Supreme Court justice, is the prosecutor at Nuremberg. 410 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,719 Speaker 1: And of course, and everyone who's listening with us should 411 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: read Justice Jackson's opening statement at Nuremberg. Attorney General was 412 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: Francis Biddle under FDR and he becomes a Nuremberg trial judge. 413 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: And Francis Biddle wrote a book called The Fall of 414 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: the Superman about his observations of these people in the trial, 415 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: and there was a long magazine piece that excerpted it. 416 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: But if you go and you read The Fall of 417 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: the Superman, you will see his observations on all of 418 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: these people. And then you'll also see, uh. A feature 419 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: that that flows through this moment is the human need 420 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: to find and it'll happen here the good Maga or 421 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: in that case, the good Nazi, and the good Nazi 422 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: was Albert Spear, and the worst Nazi there. 423 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 2: Was was was was was Herman Gouring. 424 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: And of course they were all terrible Nazis, right and 425 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: and they were all criminal. But the delusions, right that 426 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: we need to tell ourselves right about these things never change. 427 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: And and it's a it's an extraordinary, you know, revolutory 428 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: experience to look back in these in these old magazines 429 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: as you see the as you see the disaster unfold, 430 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: and Stephen Miller is not different in the formation of 431 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: his character than a reinhart Heidrich or a add Off ikeman. 432 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: It was Steven Miller would have been understood by a 433 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: generation to be what was called in the sixties a 434 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: little iikeman. You know, Hannah Urns the description the banality 435 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: of evil, and and that's who, that's who, that's who 436 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: all these people are. And and have no doubt when 437 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 1: you when you see the guy from the Daily Wire 438 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: calling for the execution of the mayor of Chicago, that 439 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: these people would absolutely put a lot of us against 440 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: the wall if they could. 441 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, look, you know, I got perhaps deluded 442 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 2: because when Merrick Garland testified in his confirmation hearings, he 443 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 2: he made a point of talking about Robert Jackson and 444 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 2: how inspired he was by Jackson and his sort of 445 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 2: commitment to justice. And and so I looked at it, 446 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 2: at what he had to say, and think, Okay, this 447 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 2: guy is actually going to go ahead and and pursue 448 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 2: justice here and seek accountability. And you know, we're again, 449 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 2: we're we're we're now at a point of uh you 450 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 2: know Trump uh the House now planning a new a 451 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 2: reinvestigation of January sixth, so that they can you know, 452 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 2: now kind of spread the lies that Trump wanted to 453 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 2: spread from the beginning. So you know, we're we're you know, 454 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 2: we haven't made progress. But again, you know, I I 455 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 2: look at that, I mean, I really appreciate what you're 456 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 2: saying in terms of it, you know, the insights that 457 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 2: it gives. But it also gives me hope. And it 458 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 2: gives me hope because no, it wasn't a thousand year Reich. Yeah, 459 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 2: you know, and and uh you know, in fact it 460 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 2: was you know it was, uh it was more years 461 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 2: than it should have been. And and no, you know, 462 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 2: the Trump regime is not going to be a thousand 463 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 2: year Reich either, right, I mean, the Trump You know, 464 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 2: these people are acting in a lawless way as if 465 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 2: there will never be held they will never be held accountable. 466 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 2: But I think we we have to assume that that 467 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 2: the rhythm of justice, the the cadence of change is 468 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 2: still within our grasp. And uh, and this this will 469 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 2: have its end, it I do. I do believe it 470 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 2: will have its end. 471 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: And there there's nothing that I think about more with 472 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: regard to the end than this. When I look at 473 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: a Pete Hagsath, a Christy g Nome, A Marco Rubio, 474 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: who are all our age Ish bom band right, and. 475 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 2: Trump? 476 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: And here's the deal. Trump is going to be dead 477 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: for twenty five years of people pissing on his grave 478 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: in this country. Is the most most reviled figure. I 479 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: mean how's it going to work out for Carolyn Levit 480 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 1: at fifty? You know, what is what does Christie Nont 481 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: think the rest of her life? 482 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 2: Isn't it be like? Yeah, what is it? What is it? Then? 483 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 2: Either we're missing right or they're missing right? Well, I 484 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 2: think we're I think we're back to that that point 485 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 2: about the information silos, right. You know, they're going to 486 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 2: have their cult members, you know, who are who are 487 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 2: never going to abandon the narrative. They're never going to 488 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 2: abandon there. I mean, I'm sorry to keep bringing up 489 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 2: the parallels with the Nazi period, but you know, there 490 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 2: were plenty of people a decade later, two decades later later, 491 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 2: who's still believed in the Nazi cause well, you know 492 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 2: there's still you know, there there was a you know, 493 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 2: I met people in Virginia in the nineteen when would 494 00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 2: it have been I guess in the nineteen nineties, who 495 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 2: were you know, still believing that the South will rise again? 496 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 2: I mean I think did in a it did in 497 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 2: a manner of form, right, right. So, so you know, 498 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 2: these narratives are powerful enough that they continue to bind 499 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 2: people to them. And so I suspect you know that 500 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 2: that that all the names that we've talked about. You know, 501 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:26,359 Speaker 2: assume that you know, their their cult members, their community 502 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 2: is going to stick with them, you know, come hell 503 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 2: or high water. You know, It's why, you know, in 504 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 2: my view, it wasn't even just a matter of Kamala 505 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 2: Harris winning the election in twenty twenty four. It was 506 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 2: the need for her to win it overwhelmingly so that 507 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 2: so that the sense of loss, the sense of overwhelming 508 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 2: failure would be unavoidable. Uh And and you know, I 509 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 2: think we're we're in this same dilemma. You know, the 510 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 2: more the more you can argue, you know, after the 511 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 2: death of Trump and after much of this has been 512 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 2: renounced and hopefully adjudicated, that there will you know, there 513 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 2: will still be enough Americans who thought that all this 514 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,280 Speaker 2: was the right way to go. And you know, democracies 515 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 2: was dead and dying, and it had abandoned them. And 516 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,879 Speaker 2: here were people talking about what they wanted and were 517 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 2: willing to define who the scapegoats are, who should be demonized, 518 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 2: who should be held accountable, who would by their accountability 519 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 2: would free them from responsibility. And here we are. I 520 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 2: think we're going to be dealing with the mess for 521 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,479 Speaker 2: a long time, long time. 522 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you can make the argument, you know 523 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: that we've been dealing and are still dealing with the 524 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 1: Civil War, right, you know, and that's that's one hundred 525 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 1: that's one hundred and sixty years. In fact, it's tough 526 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: to make the argument that that not dealing with it still, right, 527 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: and the failure of reconstruction, right, and it's and the 528 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,759 Speaker 1: reality is is we needed to hang in By we, 529 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 1: I mean the United States government, the United States Army, 530 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,359 Speaker 1: it needed to hang at least one hundred people, and 531 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 1: it needed to militarily occupy the South for another fifteen 532 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: to twenty years. And unfortunately that's not that's not what happened. 533 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: We have a we have a terrible record as a country, uh, 534 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: with regard to these to these types of these types 535 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: of matters. Let's talk about something that I am somewhat 536 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:49,240 Speaker 1: surprised by, and that's Marjorie Taylor Green and Thomas Massey. 537 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: And let me just say that this does not take 538 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: away the fact that right she is a field marshal 539 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: of this nation's whack jobs. Who is who is utterly peerless, 540 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: one of the one of the great American fruitcakes, the 541 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:16,720 Speaker 1: nuttiest member of Congress. I disdain her the mayor of village. Yeah, 542 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: I I I can't. I can't stand her. And I 543 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: can't stand Thomas Massey either, you know. And he's the 544 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: one with the AR fifteen's in the in the families 545 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: and every and everything else. 546 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 2: And so when I say that, then I got to 547 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 2: look in the mirror. 548 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: And I had to remind myself judge not less ya 549 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: be judged right. And I think about I think about 550 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:49,360 Speaker 1: my dad, who's eighty, and I think about how my 551 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 1: dad has mellowed out, right, you know, from when he 552 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 1: was my age to you know, eighty, right, and and 553 00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: you have some wisdom, right, And it's so every time 554 00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 1: I kind of get, you know, kind of really riled 555 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: up about this and you know, kind of have a 556 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 1: little pause. You know, things have a way of working 557 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,919 Speaker 1: out and everything else, and you know, sometimes it will say, 558 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: people will surprise you, sometimes sometimes for good, sometimes for bad. 559 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: And and so Marchorie Kayler Green has surprised me, and 560 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 1: Thomas Massey has surprised me. And what they've surprised me 561 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:40,720 Speaker 1: about is an orientation to a fundamental decency right and wrong. 562 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 2: Right. 563 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,840 Speaker 1: The one person who understands what the Epstein story is 564 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,839 Speaker 1: about is Tara Palmery And she's she's covered it for many, 565 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: many years. And the point that she makes it's not 566 00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:00,439 Speaker 1: a story that's about Republicans. Republicans on the Epstein list, 567 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: But there's Democrats on the Epstein list, sure, right, some 568 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: of the some of the some of the some of 569 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: the most powerful billionaires, famous names in the world, people 570 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 1: with billion dollar foundations and and and and and projects 571 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: to save humanity? Would those people sharing common you know? 572 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: I think a one billionaire with a giant foundation who 573 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,239 Speaker 1: had a high publicized divorce, who wants to cure the 574 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:35,439 Speaker 1: world a the V disease. But there was too much 575 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: of a lift to help out the fourteen year old 576 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,239 Speaker 1: girls around the around the Epstein mansion, right, they were 577 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,399 Speaker 1: they were invisible and so and so what so what 578 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Green has has said here, right is no no. 579 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 2: And and Thomas Maskew we want to know. 580 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: Who walk into that world and inhabited that world. 581 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 2: And the Justice Department knows. Yeah. 582 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:18,319 Speaker 1: And this is being forced from within MAGA by an 583 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:23,720 Speaker 1: issue that started out in my view as a conspiracy theory, right, 584 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:32,480 Speaker 1: but was not in the end, though all of the 585 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 1: conspiracy that was aimed at Biden and the Biden Justice Department, 586 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: in fact, is what the Trump Department is doing. 587 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 2: And you look at. 588 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 1: And you consider the audio of the Maxwell interview in 589 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: the prison where you have all the laughter, yeah, prosecutors 590 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 1: and the defense attorneys, and this is one of the 591 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:07,720 Speaker 1: most notorious child sex traffickers. And you see the insiderism, 592 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:13,319 Speaker 1: the laughing. Hey, we're kind of a small club here 593 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: in prison, just documenting it all out. 594 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,720 Speaker 2: And I think this issue is bearing down. 595 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: It is the portal through which a lot of bad 596 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 1: stuff is going to happen to Donald Trump and Magat. However, 597 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,840 Speaker 1: and this comes back to what we were talking about earlier. 598 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,799 Speaker 1: There are Democrats who are very famous on that list. Sure, 599 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,160 Speaker 1: and my question for the one thousand, five hundred people 600 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:53,120 Speaker 1: proverbially that are with us, you all ready to shoot 601 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,760 Speaker 1: all the Democrats on that list to save your country, 602 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,279 Speaker 1: proverbially and to excise them from public life. 603 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,440 Speaker 2: Because the only way you get the MAGA guys. 604 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 1: Is having zero tolerance, yeah, for the Democratic scumbags on 605 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 1: that list. 606 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 2: Look, you know, I'm I'm going to say sort of 607 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,520 Speaker 2: on behalf of at least some portion of that you know, 608 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,719 Speaker 2: fifteen hundred people. I'm going to say that what I've 609 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:28,440 Speaker 2: heard pretty consistency is consistently is like, let justice be served, right, 610 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,080 Speaker 2: Let's let's pursue it. Let's pursue it wherever, wherever it 611 00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 2: takes us. And I think that the desire, the desire 612 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 2: to protect Trump is an awful lot more powerful than 613 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 2: the desire to protect you know, Bill Clinton or whoever 614 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:48,279 Speaker 2: else is on that list. I think there's a commitment 615 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:53,360 Speaker 2: to justice being served. I think it's interesting that you 616 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,880 Speaker 2: know that the there's a statements being made from the 617 00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 2: women survivors yesterday that that they're now putting together. I 618 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,399 Speaker 2: think Lisa Phillips was one of that group who said 619 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:08,279 Speaker 2: they're putting together their own list of names. And you know, 620 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,200 Speaker 2: Marjorie Taylor Green said, you know, she would be, you know, 621 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 2: ready to read those names on the you know, the 622 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,319 Speaker 2: floor of the house, you know, where she would have 623 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 2: immunity and you know, and where you know, Trump can't 624 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,439 Speaker 2: sue her for a billion dollars or or anybody else, 625 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,360 Speaker 2: can't sue everyone, you know, out of existence because they 626 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,880 Speaker 2: they say these names out loud, so you know, she 627 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,719 Speaker 2: she Thomas Massey, you know, they their interest may be 628 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,960 Speaker 2: to try to root out, you know, the Democrats that 629 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,080 Speaker 2: they hate. You know, the question is whether they're they're 630 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,960 Speaker 2: willing to take down Donald Trump in the process. It 631 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 2: seems so, doesn't it. 632 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,719 Speaker 1: I mean, if you watch her, if you watch her 633 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,600 Speaker 1: on Fox last night, they have they have a big 634 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,239 Speaker 1: they have a big problem with that. 635 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:04,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And look, I I confess that I underestimated 636 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:08,279 Speaker 2: how powerful this issue would be, uh, that it that 637 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 2: it would actually be one that sort of brings together 638 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 2: and that Democrats and and MAGA people and I'm both 639 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,600 Speaker 2: saying that they want they want an end of the 640 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,280 Speaker 2: cover up and they want to know the truth. 641 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,080 Speaker 1: One of the one of the issues I wanted to 642 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: raise that I wanted to raise with you that I've not. 643 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:29,879 Speaker 2: That I've not. 644 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,279 Speaker 1: Had a chance really to talk to anyone about, is 645 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:42,040 Speaker 1: the uh destruction of the boat off of off of Venezuela. 646 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,720 Speaker 1: I was hoping by the by the by the us, 647 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,839 Speaker 1: by the so so Now, first off, I have an 648 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:56,239 Speaker 1: allergy to conspiracy theory, right, but I also feel like, 649 00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,840 Speaker 1: because I'm from New Jersey, I have a good instinct 650 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,560 Speaker 1: from when I'm being from when I'm being bullshitted, right, So, 651 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:07,360 Speaker 1: so for example, on substack today, I had a candidate 652 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:13,239 Speaker 1: who's running for office federal office email me a h 653 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:19,280 Speaker 1: a substack post that's attributed to Liz Cheney, a message 654 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 1: to Democrats, and you know, and I said to the candidate, 655 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:23,200 Speaker 1: I said, that's fake. 656 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 2: You know. 657 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,360 Speaker 1: I had someone send me a thing. I had someone 658 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 1: send me a thing this morning about a debate between 659 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:34,719 Speaker 1: Keanu Reeves and and Elon Musk, right, And I was like, 660 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: that was fake, right, that never that that never that. 661 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,400 Speaker 1: Uh you know that that never ever, that never ever happened. 662 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:49,520 Speaker 1: And so when you when you think about all that stuff, 663 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,319 Speaker 1: I have a good nose, I think for sniffing it out. 664 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 2: I haven't. I haven't gotten embarrassed yet. I know I will. 665 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to forward something that's completely you know, made 666 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,600 Speaker 1: up one day. But for the first time in my 667 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:09,520 Speaker 1: life age fifty four, I just I just flat out 668 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:10,560 Speaker 1: don't believe a word. 669 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:12,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm worker. 670 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:18,880 Speaker 1: Rubio has zero credibility, like the same level as Gislaine Maxwell. I, 671 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,319 Speaker 1: Pete Hagzeff's has zero credibility, Christy Noan does. 672 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:23,799 Speaker 2: Trump has lessons zero. 673 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,000 Speaker 1: So I'm looking at this boat being blown up and 674 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:33,359 Speaker 1: the Venezuelan communication minister, who I don't trust, of course, right, 675 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,400 Speaker 1: but he says it's an artificial intelligence photograph And I 676 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:41,640 Speaker 1: don't know, right, I'm not an artificial intelligence you know, 677 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:43,360 Speaker 1: videographer expert. 678 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,239 Speaker 2: I can't tell if it's real or not. 679 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,839 Speaker 1: The boat doesn't look big enough to make it from 680 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,719 Speaker 1: Venezuela to the United States without without refueling. But on 681 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,600 Speaker 1: the orders of the President, we just don't simply obliterate 682 00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:03,360 Speaker 1: boats in the Caribbean. That congressional authorization or approval on 683 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,040 Speaker 1: the declaration that these are now terrorists. 684 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, what how do you see this? Because I don't 685 00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:10,360 Speaker 2: I don't believe. 686 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 1: I don't believe them, and I and I think, I 687 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,960 Speaker 1: think that what I witnessed, if I did witness something 688 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:21,440 Speaker 1: blowing up, is much closer to a murder than a 689 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:22,359 Speaker 1: military action. 690 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, a lawless assassination. You know, you know, we have 691 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,920 Speaker 2: a problem here. They can tell us that they are 692 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,080 Speaker 2: they are all you know, drug smugglers who are bringing 693 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,160 Speaker 2: you know, drugs into the United States, which by the way, 694 00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:39,440 Speaker 2: is not is not a crime that is dealt with 695 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,399 Speaker 2: by uh, you know, by murder. But but they seem 696 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,160 Speaker 2: to think that they have the you know, the freedom 697 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,480 Speaker 2: to murder people that that might be carrying drugs. But 698 00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,440 Speaker 2: we have no reason to assume anything in terms of 699 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:57,279 Speaker 2: who those people are or sadly who those people were. 700 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,920 Speaker 2: You know, there was a I've read some things that 701 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,480 Speaker 2: have at least asked the question where they simply migrants 702 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:09,080 Speaker 2: trying trying to get to the United States. Uh. You know, 703 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,839 Speaker 2: this is the problem. We cannot trust anything that these 704 00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:17,560 Speaker 2: people say, and we are now in this place where 705 00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:24,440 Speaker 2: they act without without any concern about god knows congressional approval, 706 00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:29,319 Speaker 2: but even the most basic laws of you know, international 707 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,239 Speaker 2: law or the basic and a process by which you 708 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:37,759 Speaker 2: make a decision where you actually value human life enough 709 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:41,120 Speaker 2: to make sure that you're not just murdering people wrongly. 710 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:50,360 Speaker 1: It is a it is an astonishing realization or moment 711 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:55,759 Speaker 1: that the government of the United States just has zero credibility. Yeah, 712 00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:01,120 Speaker 1: can't can't trust a word did any did any government 713 00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:07,080 Speaker 1: official represents across the top ranks of this administration. 714 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:11,320 Speaker 2: Zero zero credibility. Uh So so let's just talk for 715 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:16,240 Speaker 2: a minute about Putin and uh Kim John Ung and 716 00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:21,600 Speaker 2: uh uh and you know she and China all getting together, 717 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:27,080 Speaker 2: uh exiting out Trump as part of the equation. Uh, 718 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,440 Speaker 2: and surely having a lot of laughs at at Trump's 719 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:34,600 Speaker 2: expense as as they make their own plans without the 720 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:36,880 Speaker 2: involvement of you know, Trump's America. 721 00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:43,680 Speaker 1: Uh, how does that make you think? I so again, 722 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 1: i've i've when when I see that Donald Trump is 723 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:59,400 Speaker 1: the greatest agent of American weakness in the in the world. 724 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:00,239 Speaker 2: And and. 725 00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:10,279 Speaker 1: The inaugural address fundamentally repudiated the Atlantic Charter. And so 726 00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:15,440 Speaker 1: nine months after the repudiation of the Atlantic Charter, am 727 00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:21,680 Speaker 1: I surprised to see Jee and Putin and Kim Jong 728 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,080 Speaker 1: un all together? 729 00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:23,960 Speaker 2: I'm not. 730 00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:33,560 Speaker 1: When you look at the most important relationship over the 731 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,359 Speaker 1: twenty first century for the United States against the Hedge 732 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:41,800 Speaker 1: against China, it's India. And you look at Donald Trump's arrogance, 733 00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:47,080 Speaker 1: in his foolishness, and He's aligned the whole world right 734 00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:52,640 Speaker 1: against against the against the United States. And what's incredible 735 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,399 Speaker 1: then again, as I come back to this is I look, 736 00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:02,040 Speaker 1: I want to stop this right And so I've spent 737 00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:06,080 Speaker 1: a lot of my career as a political consultant. We 738 00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:12,279 Speaker 1: have to win an election. It is much easier to 739 00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:17,239 Speaker 1: keep a wanna be autocrat out of office than it 740 00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:22,080 Speaker 1: is to remove them from office. Yep, we have to 741 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,880 Speaker 1: we have to win. And so again in this story 742 00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:31,000 Speaker 1: to meeters a media component, the same guy, jose Garborough 743 00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:36,440 Speaker 1: who looked his audience in the eye through the camera 744 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:41,920 Speaker 1: and said direct quote, fuck you to any of you. 745 00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,480 Speaker 1: That's what he said, not me. So he said to 746 00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,920 Speaker 1: his audience, who doesn't believe this is the best bite, 747 00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:53,600 Speaker 1: and there is right the top of his intellectual game, 748 00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:59,200 Speaker 1: so on and so forth, total gas lighter, it's dish 749 00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:03,239 Speaker 1: honest to Sean Hannity, and then he goes on his 750 00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:09,960 Speaker 1: audience and he says, after the Alaska summit, Trump has 751 00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:18,160 Speaker 1: all the cards, and so he's a fool if that's 752 00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:21,560 Speaker 1: what he believes. But Trump Trump who said that there 753 00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:26,360 Speaker 1: was Joe Scarborough telling his audience that Trump went to 754 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:31,040 Speaker 1: Alaska and Trump has all the cards. Right, if he 755 00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:35,080 Speaker 1: believes that, he's a fool. But the but the sewage, 756 00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:41,880 Speaker 1: the delusion, the gaslight, right, the inability of the American 757 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:45,080 Speaker 1: people to accessing information they need to get a bearing 758 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:52,759 Speaker 1: on what's happening. Yeah, right, and again the boat and 759 00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:58,240 Speaker 1: I know something about boats. I'm not an expert though 760 00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:03,319 Speaker 1: in interpreting a light imagery so so I I have 761 00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:07,040 Speaker 1: an idea of the size of the boat, and I 762 00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:11,840 Speaker 1: don't know how that boat makes it from Venezuela to 763 00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:19,319 Speaker 1: American waters right without without running out of gas. And 764 00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,840 Speaker 1: I don't know why there's eleven people on a drug 765 00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:26,760 Speaker 1: smuggling boat. It makes no sense. It makes no sense. 766 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:33,759 Speaker 1: And so you know, once again, right, the accumulation of 767 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,759 Speaker 1: the of the lying begets the next lie, the next lie, 768 00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:43,600 Speaker 1: and now the lies are crossing a nebulous space, sing 769 00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:49,360 Speaker 1: two lies over killing human beings, lies over abusing human beings. 770 00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:53,720 Speaker 1: In the American concentration camp archipelago, that's that's being built, 771 00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:59,920 Speaker 1: including in the reopening of Angola Prison in in Louisiana, 772 00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:05,640 Speaker 1: where they painted the detaining cell block as Camp forty seven, 773 00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,840 Speaker 1: and then the White House made them change it because 774 00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,920 Speaker 1: they didn't want to have Trump associated so directly with 775 00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:16,480 Speaker 1: the concentration camp. Instead they made a Camp fifty seven 776 00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:20,160 Speaker 1: because of the fifty seventh governor of Louisiana, who does 777 00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:23,920 Speaker 1: want to be associated with the concentration camp, right. 778 00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:27,839 Speaker 2: Right, I mean, just just astonishing. 779 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:35,480 Speaker 1: Robert Kennedy is testifying, is testifying today, and I just 780 00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:37,879 Speaker 1: want I wanted to ask you about like, how you 781 00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,080 Speaker 1: kind of approach these health and science issues. Maybe you 782 00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:46,440 Speaker 1: have a scientific degree that I'm unaware of. Right, I 783 00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:50,120 Speaker 1: made it through advanced biology in high school. 784 00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:51,880 Speaker 2: It was my high water mark. 785 00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:56,480 Speaker 1: I accept the proposition that vaccines have saved one hundred 786 00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:00,080 Speaker 1: and fifty million lives right over the last over the 787 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,359 Speaker 1: the last hundred years. So Florida gets rid of its 788 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:09,000 Speaker 1: vaccine mandate, It's what what's gonna happen here? Right? 789 00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:09,520 Speaker 2: What? Like? 790 00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:10,000 Speaker 1: How do you? 791 00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:10,879 Speaker 2: How do you. 792 00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:19,239 Speaker 1: What happens? And how do you like consider Robert Kennedy? 793 00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:21,040 Speaker 2: What what is he? Is? He? 794 00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:26,880 Speaker 1: Is he psychotic? Is he a sociopath? Is he a grifter? 795 00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:29,319 Speaker 2: Is is he just? 796 00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:33,040 Speaker 1: Is his mind completely broken from the drug abuse, the 797 00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:38,799 Speaker 1: heroin abuse over twenty years? And how do you kind 798 00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:42,480 Speaker 1: of get an orientation on on? On? Okay, there's no 799 00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,200 Speaker 1: more vaccine mandate in Florida? Does that mean one hundred 800 00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:47,759 Speaker 1: thousand people don't What does that mean? Do you have 801 00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:51,640 Speaker 1: any kind of way to access because I'm very disoriented 802 00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:52,000 Speaker 1: by it. 803 00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:56,040 Speaker 2: So a couple of thoughts. One is, I know I'm 804 00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,759 Speaker 2: not a scientist. I know I don't play one on TV? 805 00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:04,360 Speaker 2: And and and I you know I've I have experience 806 00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:08,160 Speaker 2: in higher education and I and I've been surrounded by 807 00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,000 Speaker 2: a lot of brilliant scientists and as a professor and 808 00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:15,280 Speaker 2: and uh, you know, whether it's climate science or otherwise. 809 00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,120 Speaker 2: So I'm a you know, a deep believer in the 810 00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:24,239 Speaker 2: value of expertise and relying on expertise when you're making decisions. 811 00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:26,520 Speaker 2: You know, we used to live in a world where 812 00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:32,480 Speaker 2: policies were decided based on research and study and and 813 00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:37,640 Speaker 2: uh and then making an informed decision based on actual 814 00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:43,120 Speaker 2: outcomes and expertise. So so all that's been tossed away here. Uh, 815 00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:46,480 Speaker 2: and you know all the terms that you used for Kennedy. 816 00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:48,800 Speaker 2: I mean it's a tough time to be at Kennedy. 817 00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:50,840 Speaker 2: I mean if there used to be a legacy for 818 00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:54,200 Speaker 2: the Kennedy family, boy as this guy poisoned it. Uh, 819 00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:56,680 Speaker 2: in some sense forever, I mean, you will always be 820 00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,520 Speaker 2: part of the picture of what what it used to 821 00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,080 Speaker 2: mean and terms of you know, no bless obleege and 822 00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:05,920 Speaker 2: a commitment to to governance and government and trying to 823 00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:10,360 Speaker 2: make the world, uh, you know, a better place to 824 00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:14,560 Speaker 2: live in. Uh. You know this guy, I mean I 825 00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:17,880 Speaker 2: I you know, I'm not an expert to be able 826 00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:22,120 Speaker 2: to analyze exactly what his psychological problems are. But what 827 00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,880 Speaker 2: I do know is that, uh, you know, the the 828 00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:31,720 Speaker 2: stripping away of vaccinations and the commitment to to giving 829 00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:36,280 Speaker 2: children vaccines, that's gonna harm not just you know, those 830 00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:38,640 Speaker 2: who don't get it. It's going to mean that there's 831 00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:40,320 Speaker 2: going to be a lot of sick kids who are 832 00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,080 Speaker 2: going to end up in public schools. So you know, 833 00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:47,520 Speaker 2: that's the point about vaccinations. It's not just protecting your 834 00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:52,040 Speaker 2: child by vaccine getting a vaccination, You're actually protecting other 835 00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:56,040 Speaker 2: children that they're in contact with. So, you know, I 836 00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:59,800 Speaker 2: think that we're sitting on a line here. We're up 837 00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:03,080 Speaker 2: on high wire. Uh you know, it's a it's a 838 00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:06,360 Speaker 2: balanced beam that's really high up, and we're all sort 839 00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:09,480 Speaker 2: of hoping that we don't fall off. But it's really 840 00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:12,800 Speaker 2: hard to look at this, this public health crisis that 841 00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:17,280 Speaker 2: this guy is putting in and and states like Florida 842 00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:22,000 Speaker 2: that are responding enthusiastically to it, that are going to 843 00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:24,400 Speaker 2: put a lot of people in danger. Will that. 844 00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:30,000 Speaker 1: I asked the question terribly. What I'm trying to get 845 00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,640 Speaker 1: at is do you have an orger? Do you believe 846 00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:35,760 Speaker 1: not as a as you kind of read this and 847 00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:40,760 Speaker 1: try to figure out what's going on. Is the implication 848 00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:50,880 Speaker 1: that these decisions will kill thousands of Americans, hundreds of 849 00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:52,640 Speaker 1: thousands of Americans. 850 00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:56,160 Speaker 2: Is that if what I'm trying to say is. 851 00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:00,720 Speaker 1: One of the things that has changed in my heard 852 00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:02,840 Speaker 1: one of the things that's changed, Here's what I'm trying 853 00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:06,800 Speaker 1: to ask. One of the things that's changed in my lifetime, 854 00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:13,400 Speaker 1: besides the weather, is the collapse of cause and effect. 855 00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:21,320 Speaker 1: Meaning if if you jump off that roof, since this 856 00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:25,840 Speaker 1: fifty story's high, you're not gonna make it. I watched 857 00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:29,360 Speaker 1: these confirmation hearings and watch you watch the back and 858 00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:32,200 Speaker 1: forth like a tennis game, right, you know, tennis match. 859 00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:34,080 Speaker 2: You're watching the ball go back and forth. 860 00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:39,560 Speaker 1: And despite all the evidence, Robert Kennedy says, no, I'm 861 00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:40,560 Speaker 1: not anti vaccine. 862 00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,760 Speaker 2: I'm not anti vaccine. Well, of course he was anti vaccine. 863 00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:47,880 Speaker 1: Right, But a world where words have no meaning, up 864 00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:49,960 Speaker 1: can be down, down can be up. I suppose for 865 00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:53,280 Speaker 1: the hearings, like Robert Kennedy, he was anti vaccine, could 866 00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:56,200 Speaker 1: be pro vaccine, at least till he got confirmed, when 867 00:59:56,240 --> 01:00:02,000 Speaker 1: he became anti vaccine again. So Robert Kennedy's going to 868 01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:07,480 Speaker 1: do what all of his critics said he was going 869 01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:11,520 Speaker 1: to do. And all of the people who said no, 870 01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:17,000 Speaker 1: he's not going to do that, we're wrong or bullshitting purposely. 871 01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:18,640 Speaker 1: And I think it's obvious. 872 01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:22,000 Speaker 2: So now he's going to do it. 873 01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:26,960 Speaker 1: Is there some place that you are aware of, right 874 01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:29,720 Speaker 1: or source where like for real, in the sense of 875 01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:31,680 Speaker 1: if you jump off the building, you're going to die. 876 01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:38,520 Speaker 1: If Florida gets rid of any vaccine mandate, here's the 877 01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:43,160 Speaker 1: consequence the world without vaccines, these diseases existed, and these 878 01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:45,600 Speaker 1: people died, and they suffered, and they had miserable deaths, 879 01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:48,360 Speaker 1: and you had polio awards. And if you get rid 880 01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:52,280 Speaker 1: of the vaccines, it would stand to reason that some 881 01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:54,640 Speaker 1: of those things would come back. And so I had 882 01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:58,280 Speaker 1: a leading virologist on, doctor angel Erasmus and who's part 883 01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:01,240 Speaker 1: of Save America movement that i'll pour of, and she said. 884 01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:03,600 Speaker 2: You're going to see like polio cases. 885 01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:07,240 Speaker 1: Yeah right, not on the not on the on the periphery, 886 01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:12,960 Speaker 1: but but in the mean, yeah, with any year, measles 887 01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:16,080 Speaker 1: and so so we'll have a collapsed economy. We'll have 888 01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:22,360 Speaker 1: people with polio and mumps and rubella and all of 889 01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:28,000 Speaker 1: these cured diseases, and I suppose someone in the White 890 01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:30,600 Speaker 1: House will be saying, none of it is real. Well, 891 01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,160 Speaker 1: there's thousands of people being dieted with no one having 892 01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,120 Speaker 1: an ability to orient what is and what isn't. I 893 01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:37,840 Speaker 1: just it's an astonishing moment. 894 01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:43,400 Speaker 2: So so let me give it one one historical reference point. 895 01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:51,040 Speaker 2: You know, around nineteen eighty, smallpucks was eradicated in the world, right, 896 01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:53,960 Speaker 2: I mean, that was a deadly contagious disease. You can 897 01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,480 Speaker 2: go back hundreds of years to millions and millions of 898 01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:02,320 Speaker 2: people that were contaminated and died from it, and it 899 01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:06,360 Speaker 2: was a deadly, painful, horrible disease, and there was a 900 01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:10,960 Speaker 2: commitment to vaccinate people all over the world, country by 901 01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,320 Speaker 2: country by country. You know, as I understand that the 902 01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:20,120 Speaker 2: last people was in some village in India that they vaccinated, 903 01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:23,160 Speaker 2: and they basically at the end of that, you know, 904 01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:28,720 Speaker 2: were able to say that that smallpox had been eradicated 905 01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:32,680 Speaker 2: from the world. I mean, it's you know, we're talking 906 01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:36,200 Speaker 2: cause and effect. You know, you can look at the 907 01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:42,760 Speaker 2: success of vaccination to a healthier human population. It doesn't 908 01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,760 Speaker 2: take a lot of genius to look at the simple 909 01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:50,040 Speaker 2: causation there. So this guy coming in and saying that 910 01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:53,720 Speaker 2: he knows better than everybody. There's too many sick people, 911 01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:57,880 Speaker 2: you know, too many people who have gotten a vaccination 912 01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:01,560 Speaker 2: have ended up with autism, even although there's never been 913 01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:06,280 Speaker 2: a scientific correlation here. I think this is the victory 914 01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:10,520 Speaker 2: of the crack pot who has been given power and 915 01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:13,440 Speaker 2: and is now going to use that power to pursue 916 01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:19,600 Speaker 2: to pursue his deadly, deadly ideas that that you know, Look, 917 01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:21,800 Speaker 2: people who know more than I do will say that 918 01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:25,040 Speaker 2: there may be millions, millions of people who are going 919 01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:30,080 Speaker 2: to suffer because of this. It's a it's a it's 920 01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:32,000 Speaker 2: a it's astonishing. 921 01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:38,240 Speaker 1: To comprehend the misery that is about to be let loose. 922 01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:44,200 Speaker 2: But uh, we passed. Can I can I can I 923 01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:47,040 Speaker 2: say this? You know the one thing that I want 924 01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:49,160 Speaker 2: to say, and I you know, I like to leave 925 01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:52,320 Speaker 2: people with at least some sense of hope and and 926 01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:56,400 Speaker 2: and even the possibility of optimism, that that you know, 927 01:03:56,520 --> 01:04:00,080 Speaker 2: positive change is possible. And one of the things I 928 01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:04,480 Speaker 2: think we've been talking about is the need for media literacy, 929 01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:10,840 Speaker 2: critical thinking, you know, choosing your sources well, uh, you know, 930 01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:16,720 Speaker 2: relying on people whose judgments and analysis you trust, relying 931 01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:20,080 Speaker 2: on facts as much as you can, uh, you know, 932 01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:25,360 Speaker 2: and and and devoting your energy to those people in 933 01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:30,080 Speaker 2: the public sphere who understand the urgency of this moment 934 01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:33,960 Speaker 2: and are are committed to define this regime and who 935 01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:37,240 Speaker 2: are acting on it. You know, I am coming back 936 01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:40,920 Speaker 2: to a JB. Pritzker. I'm I'm not happy about an 937 01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:46,040 Speaker 2: invasion you know, of Chicago by the Trump regime. On 938 01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:49,240 Speaker 2: the other hand, I think it will be an important 939 01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:54,480 Speaker 2: moment for the country if Chicagoans sort of proved themselves 940 01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:59,960 Speaker 2: unwilling to tolerate it, and leadership that that's committed to define. 941 01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:04,040 Speaker 2: So you know, you know, JB. Pritzker is one of 942 01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:09,840 Speaker 2: twenty three democratic governors around the country. I think, you know, 943 01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:14,400 Speaker 2: I look ahead to you know, the rise of democratic 944 01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,760 Speaker 2: states understanding that they have to put in place their 945 01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:22,200 Speaker 2: own vaccination policies, you know, like Washington and Oregon and 946 01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:26,960 Speaker 2: California did sort of in in you know, in alliance 947 01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,120 Speaker 2: in the last day or two. So you know, I think, 948 01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:32,720 Speaker 2: you know, as dark as this period is, I think 949 01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:36,400 Speaker 2: it's important to look at look at the individuals and 950 01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:39,120 Speaker 2: the kind of collective efforts that are happening that I 951 01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:43,800 Speaker 2: hope actually motivate people to realize that we're not we're 952 01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:46,720 Speaker 2: not we're not dead yet, you know we're Yeah, no. 953 01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:49,120 Speaker 1: There's no there's no doubt, right. I mean, I love 954 01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:52,680 Speaker 1: the old Ronald Wagan's story about the Optimist, right, And 955 01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:55,240 Speaker 1: in the ragon telling of the story, it was the 956 01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:59,400 Speaker 1: little boy who wanted a pony for Christmas, and he 957 01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:03,360 Speaker 1: comes down down and uh, under the Christmas tree, it's 958 01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:06,520 Speaker 1: just a floor filled with manure. And the kid dives 959 01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:08,280 Speaker 1: in there and he goes, I know there's a pony 960 01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:11,520 Speaker 1: in there somewhere, right, And and Reagan said, that's that's 961 01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:14,840 Speaker 1: an optimist, right, that's a that's what an optimist is. 962 01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:18,120 Speaker 1: And I I am not right. I would know that 963 01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:21,080 Speaker 1: there was no pony in the ship waiting for me, right, 964 01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:25,560 Speaker 1: that that that being, that being said as someone you know, 965 01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:30,439 Speaker 1: as a you know, I you know that's interested in history. 966 01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:34,880 Speaker 1: We look at the most significant leaders for the advancement 967 01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:40,280 Speaker 1: of human freedom and justice over the last hundred years. 968 01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:46,520 Speaker 1: Whether it's an FDR, whether it's a king, Uh. All 969 01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:51,520 Speaker 1: of these people, an Abraham Lincoln, all of these people, 970 01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:57,400 Speaker 1: uh wrestled with doubt and crises of faith. 971 01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:00,200 Speaker 2: While they were or. 972 01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:06,240 Speaker 1: Doing the things that we remember them for. And you know, 973 01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:09,080 Speaker 1: we don't talk about that as much about you know, 974 01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:13,240 Speaker 1: Lincoln's tests of faith and Martin Luther King's and that 975 01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:16,200 Speaker 1: these were people and there's a lot to be anxious 976 01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:18,320 Speaker 1: about it. There's an old saying, the days are long, 977 01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:22,000 Speaker 1: the years are short, and you know, nineteen forty two, 978 01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:26,080 Speaker 1: these existential years, eighteen sixty two, they were just the 979 01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:28,840 Speaker 1: same length as they are today, right, twenty four hours 980 01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:31,040 Speaker 1: in a day, seven days a week. We watch a 981 01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:34,520 Speaker 1: movie about this, and you can, you can get tension 982 01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:37,280 Speaker 1: in a movie, but the movie's over in three hours. 983 01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:40,080 Speaker 1: But we're going to go through twenty twenty five the 984 01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:43,720 Speaker 1: same way people went through nineteen forty one in nineteen 985 01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:46,000 Speaker 1: forty two, which is at a day at a time, 986 01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,560 Speaker 1: with a lot of with a lot of anxiety. And 987 01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:52,840 Speaker 1: you know what's been said for a long time prophecy 988 01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:56,320 Speaker 1: apocryphally attributed to Upton Saint Clair that when fascism came 989 01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:59,800 Speaker 1: to America, be wrapped in the flag carrying the cross. 990 01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:03,040 Speaker 1: We are we are living, We are living through that, 991 01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:07,160 Speaker 1: and we have to recognize the fascism that is that 992 01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:09,720 Speaker 1: is rising, and we have to repudiate it, and we 993 01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:12,919 Speaker 1: have to defeat it, and we have to have an 994 01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:18,639 Speaker 1: awakening of our values again or last we lose them. 995 01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:21,360 Speaker 1: And that's that's that's what the choice ahead in these 996 01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:23,880 Speaker 1: next elections is going to be. And it is true. 997 01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:25,320 Speaker 1: We get to make it as a people. 998 01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:28,000 Speaker 2: And that's not just about you and me again, it's 999 01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:30,920 Speaker 2: it's about everybody who's on this call. You know, in 1000 01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:33,760 Speaker 2: whatever small ways or larger ways, you know, you can 1001 01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:40,000 Speaker 2: assert your commitment to democracy's survival, in America's survival, and 1002 01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:45,040 Speaker 2: every you know, every small act cumulatively matters. I do 1003 01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:47,840 Speaker 2: believe that. I think it's real. And you know, can 1004 01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:51,519 Speaker 2: I just say one one? Abraham Lincoln. Note you know, 1005 01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:56,320 Speaker 2: he he signed, he signed into law the plan for 1006 01:08:56,600 --> 01:09:03,280 Speaker 2: the construction, the final construction of the trans Continental Railroad, right, 1007 01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:06,920 Speaker 2: I believe in eighteen sixty three, So in the middle 1008 01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:09,559 Speaker 2: of the Civil War, in the middle of the horror 1009 01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:13,679 Speaker 2: of what he was doing to help to save the Union, 1010 01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:18,320 Speaker 2: he was also you know, visionary enough and committed enough 1011 01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:23,320 Speaker 2: to the future that he could imagine and support the 1012 01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:27,320 Speaker 2: establishment of the Transcontinental Railroad that would take people from 1013 01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:29,560 Speaker 2: from New York to California. 1014 01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:34,640 Speaker 1: And he also insisted that the Capitol don't be completed, 1015 01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:39,000 Speaker 1: so that the Congress would have a place to re 1016 01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:44,560 Speaker 1: congregate under and so that optimism in the times of 1017 01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:50,280 Speaker 1: greatest crises is something that's important FDR. In conceptualizing the 1018 01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:52,720 Speaker 1: way the world would be after the war was won, 1019 01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:57,160 Speaker 1: before America was in the wars, another great example of 1020 01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:00,400 Speaker 1: the vision. And so we hope that we see a 1021 01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:06,639 Speaker 1: rise of democratic candidates with wisdom, with vision, with gups, 1022 01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:11,160 Speaker 1: with integrity, who will take the fight to MAGA on 1023 01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:17,679 Speaker 1: behalf of the Constitution. The United States is a idea 1024 01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:23,920 Speaker 1: that deserves defending, and yes, please, and we ought to 1025 01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:27,840 Speaker 1: defend it. It's been a great conversation. We've gone over 1026 01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:32,560 Speaker 1: twelve minutes actually, but so great to be able to 1027 01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:34,559 Speaker 1: spend some time with you, Steven. We'll do it again 1028 01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:41,479 Speaker 1: soon and keep the faith everybody. Thank you involved, Get engaged, 1029 01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:46,400 Speaker 1: vote these people out, all of them. I'm Steve Schmidt. 1030 01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:49,120 Speaker 1: This is the warning. I invite you to join this 1031 01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:53,560 Speaker 1: community where I promise to be honest, blunt and direct 1032 01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:57,840 Speaker 1: about what is happening in this country. America is in crisis. 1033 01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:01,880 Speaker 1: Follow and subscribe to this out and on substack. Thank 1034 01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:02,040 Speaker 1: you