1 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 1: A young father of four seemingly disappears into thin air, 2 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: and questions begin to him out what happened to John 3 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: Thomas McGuire. You know, for so many girls and boys, 4 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: their father's influence means the world to them. It shapes 5 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: who they become as adults. So when John McGuire seemingly 6 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: drops off the map, his children are distraught. Take a 7 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: listen to this. It's February and John Bamma McGuire is 8 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: making plans for a move. The plan is to set 9 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: out from his Minnesota home to visit his mother. This 10 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: father at texts Angela Ericson, that's the last contact the 11 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: thirty eight year old makes with family or friends. When 12 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: Mother's Day rolls around in May, McGuire doesn't contact Ericson. 13 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: She tells the Bluefield Daily Telegraph that McGuire always calls 14 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: her and his own mother. Four Mother's Day, son Jacob's 15 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: summer birthday also came and went. That's when Ericson, after 16 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: four months, filed a missing person's report. You know, it's 17 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: one thing to miss a call on Mother's Day. It's 18 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 1: an entirely different matter to miss one of your children's birthdays. Again, 19 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Gray, thanks for being with us here at 20 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: Crime Stories and joining me an all star panel. First 21 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: of all, doctor at Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologists, former medical examiner, 22 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide and Investigating Child Abuse 23 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: Field Guide. She's also a former police detective with a 24 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: Lexington County Sheriff's Department. Also with me, author speaker, former 25 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: cop and undercover detective, author of twelve and Murdered on 26 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: Amazon On. Steve Lampley joining me from Manhattan. Renowned psychologist 27 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: Karen start at Karen Starton dot com. Veteran trial lawyer, 28 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney Troy Slayton joining us from La and 29 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: you can find him at Floyd Scernlaw dot com. Special 30 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: guest joining us mister McGuire's daughter, Justice McGuire and the 31 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: mother of three of his children, Angela ericson Mother of Justice, 32 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: Jacob and Genesis. I'm focusing right now on how John 33 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: McGuire seemingly vanished into than air. So John McGuire, this 34 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: data four is going to move home ultimately to Alabama. 35 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: So he takes off in his truck from Minnesota to 36 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: drive from Minnesota to Alabama, but he never makes it 37 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: straight out to Angela ericson the mother McGuire's three children, 38 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: Justice Jacob in Genesis. Angela again, thank you and Justice 39 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: for being with us. Angela. That's quite a trip. I 40 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: guess he was driving. His vehicle was a a car, 41 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 1: a truck. So, Angela, he's going well over a thousand 42 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: miles from Minnesota to visit his mother in Alabama, and 43 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: then he's going to circle up to West Virginia. Why 44 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,959 Speaker 1: was he going to West Virginia. I don't honestly think 45 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: there was initial plan to go to West Virginia. I 46 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: do believe that the truck that they were driving stalled 47 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: on them, and then the course just took them to 48 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: West Virginia to where John's girlfriend, Amanda's family reside. Okay, 49 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: so the whole West Virginia stop was really because the girlfriend, 50 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: Amanda McClure, had family there. Yeah. Did John make it 51 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: to Alabama. He did not, So he got as far 52 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: as Minnesota to West Virginia. Correct. Yea the mother his 53 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: mother lives in Alabama. Was she ill at the time, Yes, 54 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: she was. That's the reason why he was going on 55 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: her to move with her, to help her. You know, 56 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: Karen start and joining me new York psychologist. It's amazing 57 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: what people will do for their mother. Have you noticed that? Well? 58 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: I noticed that from you, Nancy, and I noticed that 59 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 1: for me and so many people. You know, it's all 60 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: about Mother's Day. Our mothers give birth to us and 61 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: they hold our hearts. I'm just thinking, you know, my 62 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: mom lives with us now, Karen start and there is 63 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: no way I would miss honoring her in some way 64 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: on Mother's Day. And it really struck me when we 65 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: were listening early to our friends at crime Online that 66 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: he failed to make that yearly call. I mean they 67 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 1: spoke more off then once a year, but every Mother's 68 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: Day he always called, and he didn't. That would be 69 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: a big red flag to me. Karen Starr, it's an SOS, 70 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: absolutely an sos, Nancy, it really is. Yeah, Angela Ericson, 71 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: tell me about that, him missing the call on Mother's Day. Um, 72 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: you know, I knew that something was wrong. And um, 73 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: there was just no way that he wouldn't have called 74 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: myself or his mom, or in fact my mom for 75 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: that matter, because he just did it religiously. There was 76 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: no question. So when he would call you on Mother's Day, 77 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: Angela Ericson, what would he say. He would say, happy 78 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 1: Mother's Day. You're you're a great mom, and I'm glad 79 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 1: you are the mother of my children. Then you're beautiful, 80 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: and I hope you have a wonderful day. He always 81 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: made sure that it was it was a good day, 82 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: regardless if he was on the phone calling or he 83 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 1: was there. So and then he missed a birthday whose 84 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: birthday was Jacob's birthday. That he missed the Jacob sixteen birthday. Yes, oh, 85 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: and that's a big one too, you know, Angela, I 86 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: don't know if you're like me, I have thirteen year 87 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: old twins. I can't believe I'm even saying that that 88 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: they're thirteen now. But that is a big day November 89 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:21,559 Speaker 1: four at our house, because we really have a great 90 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: time on their birthdays. And you know, I wouldn't miss 91 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: it for anything. Nothing could pull me away from their birthday. 92 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: So what did you think when he missed calling you 93 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,239 Speaker 1: at birthday on Mother's Day and then he missed calling 94 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,799 Speaker 1: on Jacob's birthday. I honestly I thought the worst because 95 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: I knew that just there was no way in the 96 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: world that he wouldn't have called his only son on 97 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: his sixteen birthday to wish him, but happy birthday, so 98 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: to Stephen Lampley, joining US author speaker, former cop undercover, 99 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: author of twelve A Murdered and you can find him 100 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 1: at Stephen David Lampley dot com. Stephen Lampley. This is 101 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: often referred to as routine evidence, and I always clarify 102 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: I don't mean like run of the meal evidence. I 103 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: mean evidence of someone's routine. For instance, first thing I 104 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: do every morning is take care of all the pets 105 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: and my mom, get the twins stuff for school ready, 106 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: and make a cup of hot tea. If I didn't 107 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: do that, my husband would know something was very, very wrong. Right. 108 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: That is evidence of a routine. What do you make 109 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: of this? Lampley mentioned that stands out. That stands out 110 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: more so than is somebody figured out to get the 111 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: mail or it was late for work. Not calling a 112 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: child or mom is a substantial indicated that something is 113 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: going wrong, has gone wrong, and that is evidence. But 114 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: on the other hand, Stephen Lampley, it could be argued 115 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: to jury. Okay, I'm not happy he missed calling on 116 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: Mother's Day, but that means absolutely nothing. Right, But for 117 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: this guy, I mean a lot because he never failed 118 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: to do it. A lot of guys, believe it or not, Lampley, 119 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: do not call mom on Mother's Day? Shock but true? 120 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: That well, that's true. But for this gentleman, he did 121 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: on a religious basis, and that's a red flag and 122 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 1: that does indicate to us that there is a problem. 123 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: Clime stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, we were talking about 124 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: the sudden disappearance of a young thirty eight year old 125 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: dad a four. Everything's going along fine until suddenly he 126 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: misses a call on Mother's Day and then his son's 127 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: sixteenth birthday. And that is when mother of the children, 128 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: Angela ericson of something is very wrong. Okay, Troy Slightton, 129 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: go ahead, Lampley and I have built our castle. Go ahead, 130 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: knocked down our castle of dominoes by saying this means nothing. 131 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: Simply not making a phone call, the absence of committing 132 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: some sort of act is not evidence of anything, absolutely not. 133 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: And people, I can't see you, but I guess you're 134 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: saying that with a straight face. People change behaviors, people 135 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: fall in and out of relationships. It means absolutely nothing 136 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: and it's not evidence of anything. WHOA It wouldn't survive 137 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: don't you have children, TROYE Lytton? Don't you have children? Absolutely? 138 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: Two beautiful children. Okay? Are you married? Yeah, Troy Lytton. 139 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: You say people fall in and out of relationships. That 140 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: may be true when it comes to men and women 141 00:09:54,600 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: or romantic love, the erroslove, but the mommy child love, 142 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: you don't fall in and out of that relationship. And 143 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: I certainly hope Troyce Layton, that you, as a father 144 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: don't fall in and out of your relationship with your children. 145 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying? That you can love them 146 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: one day and then the next day. Well, there's some 147 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: days I want to kill them, but no, I absolutely 148 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: do not. Ever. Have you ever missed their birthday? Oh? Interesting, 149 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 1: So you haven't fallen out of your relationship with your children? 150 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: Absolutely not, okay, But you're saying that that could have 151 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: happened with this guy who would never once missed calling 152 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: or being there for their birthday. A lot of people 153 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: are different, and it's it's a possibility. You remind me 154 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: of this ostrich I saw at the zoo one time 155 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: in San Diego. He had his head in the sand 156 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: and his butt in the air, not looking at anything 157 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: going on around him no offense to ostriches. But what 158 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: I'm saying is this evidence is hitting me in the 159 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: head like a brick. So Angela Ericson, let me go 160 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: to your daughter joining us, Justice McGuire, Justice, thank you 161 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: for being with us. Welcome Justice. How old are you? 162 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: I am nineteen? I'll be twenty in September this year, 163 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: you know, Justice, You know, don't tell my husband, but 164 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: you know who my soulmate is. Oh, my father. Yep, 165 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: he's in heaven now. But we laughed at the same things. 166 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: We butt heads over politics. I learned how to dance 167 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: standing on his feet to Perry Como in our living 168 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: room where we didn't quite have enough money to my furniture, 169 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: so we had a lot of dance space, you understand. Yeah, So, 170 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: and I miss him every single day. Now, tell me 171 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: about your dad. My dad was, I could say, the 172 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: best dad in the world. He always made your us 173 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: kids had everything we wanted and needed, let alone even 174 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: more so. I always enjoy spending time with him, and 175 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: I wish I could just go back and to spend 176 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: another day with him. So how Justice, You and me, both, 177 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: little girl, You and me both now you say he 178 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: always made sure you had everything you needed or wanted, 179 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: like the other day, Justice John David my son and 180 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: I like to watch well, he likes to watch and 181 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: I like to watch him watch Kung Fu movies. Don't laugh. 182 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: And then my daughter, who was not into that at all, 183 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: God bless her little soul, is curled up on the 184 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: sofa looking at some shopping spot and she says, Mom, 185 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: can I order a pair of blue jeans? Well, it 186 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 1: nearly broke my heart that she would even ask, because 187 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 1: you know some children would just do it because she 188 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: has my PayPal, And I said, sweetheart, yes, please get 189 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: you a law outfit. I want her not to just 190 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 1: have of what she has to have. I want her 191 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 1: to have things she wants to. Now tell me about 192 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: your dad. What would he do for you? Oh? No, 193 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: I would always I was. I've been an oldest, so 194 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,439 Speaker 1: he always I don't know. I think me and him 195 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: had a closer relationship. I wouldn't say more than the 196 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: other kids, but I was always with him when I 197 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 1: was younger because I've always been a daddy's girl. So 198 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: like I'd be like I want this, and you'd be like, okay, 199 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: put it in the cart and then you can get it. 200 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: So it was like always like pretty much you know, 201 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: spoiled justice. You know what, You're not spoiled. You just 202 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: have a mom and dad that really love you and 203 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: are willing to sacrifice themselves so you can have that 204 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: thing you put in the cart. Angela ericson the Mom 205 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: of Justice. Jacob and Genesis tell me about John's relationship 206 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: with his children. They were you know, he loved them 207 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: more than life itself. And you would have done anything, 208 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: you know, who sit in a bus in front of 209 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: a bus for those kids if that's what it took 210 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: for them to you know, be healthy and happy. And 211 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: you know, the one thing that you know a father 212 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: justice the most is as she graduated this last year 213 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: and her dad wanted nothing in the world but to 214 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: see her graduate, and you know, he wasn't able to 215 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: be there, and that was pretty devastating for her, you know. So, 216 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: I mean, he just loved them, and the bond between 217 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: you know, parents and kids is something that you just 218 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: can't sever, you know what I mean. It's and it's 219 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: really sad that he's not here to continue that bond 220 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: with our children. You know, I want to go to 221 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: the editor of the Bluefield Daily Telegraph special guests joining us. 222 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: Samantha Perry. You know, Samantha, you like me, deal with 223 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: a lot of stories every day. There was a car 224 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: crash on Main Street, the mayor is caught in a scandal, 225 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah, Samantha, with the crush of cases 226 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: that we deal with, I think very often for some 227 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: people it's easy to forget these stories aren't really stories 228 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: at all. They're about real people with real suffering and 229 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: real issues. I mean, when you hear Justice talking about 230 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: her dad, it just adds a whole different layer of 231 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: what we're reporting today. How this dad is en route 232 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: on a trip and then suddenly just disappears. It really 233 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: changes the way you report if you let yourself think 234 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: about the facts. Samantha, do you agree, Yes, I do, 235 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: Miss Grace, this was absolutely one of the most horrific 236 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: cases I have ever covered. You know, I can't imagine 237 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: how horrible this was for the family members, for his children. 238 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: And it all started with him simply heading out on 239 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: a trip, and then they didn't hear from him, and 240 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: then Mother's Day came, and then the birthday came, and 241 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: then finally he's reported missing. Angela Ericson, who reported him missing, 242 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: and when, after you know, several months of not hearing 243 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: from him, I called justice and I said, I think 244 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: we should probably go make a missing person's report for 245 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: your dad, and she agreed, so her and I went 246 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: down to the police station and made that report in 247 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: June of twenty nineteen. Now, let me understand something. He 248 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: had taken off in his truck from Minnesota, where you 249 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: guys live, to visit his mother in Alabama, stopping by 250 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: West Virginia, where the girlfriend had family in round. Do 251 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: I have that right, Angela? No, the West Virginia trip 252 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,959 Speaker 1: was not actually in their plans. Okay. The reason they 253 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: went to West Virginia is because the car that they 254 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: were driving stalled in Kentucky. And I believe that Amanda 255 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: contacted her sister or her father in West Virginia to 256 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: come and pick them up because the car was not 257 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: going anywhere. Okay, So that's how they ended up in 258 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: West Virginia. Got it. Now, it's odd to me that 259 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: they we don't hear anything from the girlfriend, so she 260 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:42,719 Speaker 1: missing too. Climb stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are 261 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: talking about the disappearance of a young dad just thirty 262 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: eight years old. Of four children, and with me the 263 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: mother of three of those children, Angela Ericsson, and his 264 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,199 Speaker 1: daughter Justice. Also with me are all Star Panel and 265 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: Samantha Perry from the Bluefield Daily Telegraph. After you reported 266 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: him missing, Justice maguire or, first of all, what is 267 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 1: that like, filling out and missing person's report for your dad? Well, 268 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: at first, at first I didn't really want to do it, 269 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: but at the same time I did. It was kind 270 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: of hard because I didn't want to go up there 271 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: and be like, yeah, I haven't seen my dad and 272 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: you know how long and whynot. So going up there, 273 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: I was crying and didn't really I was just hoping 274 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:25,360 Speaker 1: for the best. I was like, please find my dad, 275 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: bring him home by one I'm safe. So and what 276 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: if anything did the police do defined him? Justice? One day, 277 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: they actually went to my mom's house and knocked on 278 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: her door, so you know, and you know everything that 279 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: went on or whatever, and they were talking to her 280 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: and she didn't even realize, like they said, you put 281 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: in a missing person report, and she was like I 282 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: did because she We just have tried to like push 283 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: ourselves forward, to try and move on, but it's just 284 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: like in the back of our heads like it's just 285 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: stuck there. So so weeks pass and no knee news 286 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: and then suddenly an odd twist take a listen to 287 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 1: our friend Caroline four back at Fox fifty nine. September 288 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, State troopers were questioning Larry Paul McClure at 289 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: the Welch Detachment for violating his sex offender registry. That's 290 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: when McClure revealed shocking information, leading investigators down a dark 291 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 1: and twisted path of murder and incest. On September twenty fourth, 292 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, we were advised of this crime by Larry 293 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: Paul McLure. He told them about a murder in McDowell 294 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: County that happened seven months prior. On February fourteenth, twenty nineteen. 295 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: When Trooper K. M. Sadler followed up, McClure's story checked out. 296 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: We did respond to the residence where the crime occurred 297 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: and the victims remains were found on the property. How 298 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 1: in the world does a registered sex offender behind mars 299 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: and he's talking to law enforcement at the Wilch Detachment 300 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: for violating his saxophone registry rules? What does that have 301 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 1: to do with a missing young dad? A four. How 302 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: did those two connect? Angela Ericsson? When did you learn 303 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: that John? When did you learn that John's remains had 304 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: been found on this property? Um? The police came to 305 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: my apartment UM two officers and when I answered the door, 306 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: I was, you know, I didn't know what was going on. 307 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: There papers in the hand and h They basically came 308 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 1: to me and said, you have made a police report 309 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: back in June, and we were here to tell you 310 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: a little bit about that. And I, you know, it 311 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: was just I my heart sank in my stomach came out. 312 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: It's like it's about done. And that's when they proceeded 313 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: to tell me that his remains were found and that 314 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: they were there was a murder investigation going on. It's 315 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: just when did you learn about your dad? My mom? 316 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: The cops went to her house and then she texted 317 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: me and she asked me, she said, are you sitting comfortably? 318 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: And I was like confused because I didn't know. I 319 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: knew something she was going to say, something like that 320 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: I probably didn't want to hear. And I was sitting 321 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: in the backseat of a car and she called me 322 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: and she told me, and I I lost it. I 323 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: didn't know what to do. So I kind of just 324 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: I had to go back to my house, and the 325 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 1: cops were actually leaving because they were coming to tell me. 326 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 1: My mom sent them to my house so I could 327 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 1: talk to them if I had any questions or anything. 328 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: And I just stood there crying, like they were like, 329 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 1: do you have any questions? I couldn't answer them. I 330 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: just wanted to be like left alone. I didn't know 331 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: what to do, to be honest with you. Samantha Perry, 332 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,479 Speaker 1: editor with the Bluefield Daily Telegraphs, Samantha, what can you 333 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: tell me about the location where John's remains were found? 334 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: Is it a rural is it in a backyard? What 335 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: is it? McDowell County is an extremely rural county here 336 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: in southern West Virginia. It actually has the nickname of 337 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: the Free State just because it is. Again it's it's 338 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: just so rural. And the area where his remains were 339 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: found in Sky Gustie, Yeah, it is very very rural, 340 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: very very country. You know, it's not a residence that 341 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: you're just going to come across, so I have to 342 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: drive out to what I mean, I know what you're 343 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: talking about, Samantha Perry. I grew up on a red 344 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 1: dirt road with a well dug in the backyard and 345 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:40,239 Speaker 1: dug by my grandfather. So I get it. You're not 346 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: just gonna drive by and notice disturbed earth. So Samantha Perry, 347 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: editor with the Bluefield Daily Telegraph, was his body found 348 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: in a backyard? I gives, ma'am how far from the home? 349 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: I would say approximately about six to eight feet from 350 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: the home. So let me follow up with you. Roy Slayton, 351 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: a criminal defense attorney joining us out from LA. You heard, 352 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: Samantha Perry eight feet from the home. How could you 353 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: not notice a body is buried in your backyard? Don't 354 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: you think that's pretty strong circumstantial evidence. It is certainly 355 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: strong circumstantial evidence. And what's also a criminal defense attorney's 356 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: nightmare in the case is someone being arrested merely for 357 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: violating their sex offender Registry regulation, violating it, and then 358 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: suddenly this game he knows about a murderment, suddenly getting 359 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: diarrhea of the mouth and telling the police everything he's 360 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: done since he was six years old. That's not the 361 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: police fault, No, it's not. The constitution protects you from 362 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: unreasonable searches and seizures. You can't be beating or tortured 363 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 1: or forced into a confession. The constitution does not stop 364 00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: you or protect you from gabbing, from getting carried. And 365 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: I'd bet he this guy McClure, the purv the registered 366 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: sex offender, blurted out he knew where a body was 367 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: to save his own skin from that parole violation. He 368 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: thought if he could cough up some info, they would 369 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: go light on him for the pro violation. I bet 370 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: you dollars to donuts that's what happened. He's not trying 371 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: to help anybody, trying to save his own skin. Spontaneous concession, 372 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: spontaneous statement isn't even covered by Miranda. To doctor Michelle 373 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: Dupree joining me forensic pathologists, former medical examiner and author 374 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: of the Homicide Investigation Field Guide and Investigating Child Abuse 375 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: the Old Guide, Doctor Dupree, yet another buried in a 376 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: shallow grave story? All right, would you think that someday 377 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: someone would get rid of a body not by burying 378 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: eight feet from the batten door in a shallow grave. Yes, Nancy, 379 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 1: this is incredible. We often see that clandestine graves are 380 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: no more than eighteen to twenty four inches deep. They're 381 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: often discovered much more quickly than the perpetrator would think. 382 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: Is that why it's so easy for, for instance, cadaver 383 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: dogs to find bodies and shallow graves. Well, that's certainly 384 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: one of the reasons, but there are many more reasons 385 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: that cadaver dogs can find these even in deeper graves too. 386 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: Doggpre what would being buried in a shallow grave for 387 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: a period of months due to a human body, how 388 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: would that affect decomposition and therefore thwart an identification of 389 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 1: the body. Well, Nancy, as you know, it depends on 390 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: a lot of different factors. It's going to depend on 391 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: the environment, whether it's cold or hot, whether it's a 392 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 1: damp or whether it's dry. But the thing is that 393 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,479 Speaker 1: even after about six months or so, we can often 394 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 1: determine and many things that happened to that body. For example, 395 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: oftentimes we can determine the cause of death. The decomposition 396 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: rate will certainly hinder some evidence, but not all of 397 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:27,959 Speaker 1: it crime stories. With Nancy Grace, I'm still trying to 398 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: help make the connection how this datafore on a trip 399 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: with his girlfriend ends up in a shallow grave in 400 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: somebody's backyard, and a register sex offender trying to save 401 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: his own skin, blurts out at the location, Well, take 402 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at people dot com. Authorities 403 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: located the body of thirty eight year old John Thomas 404 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: McGuire in a shallow grave on the McClure property in Skygusty, 405 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: West Virginia, according to the Bluefield Daily Telegraph. Shaudrey has 406 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: said that McGuire's death happened after a Valentine's Day meal 407 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 1: that her father and sister had accused McGuire of being 408 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: a federal informant. The outlet reports that McGuire was struck 409 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 1: on the head with a wine bottle, tied up, tortured, 410 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: and injected with methamphetamine. He was also reportedly strangled and buried, 411 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: then dissentered, dismembered, and then buried again. Shaudrey said her 412 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,439 Speaker 1: father and sister told her she had to be the 413 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: one to inject McGuire with meth because she had nursing experience. 414 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: So you have to have nursing experience to kill somebody, 415 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: you know. I'm very, very curious about the connection between 416 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: this registered sex offender and how he knows about the 417 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: dead body. While according to people dot Com, he was 418 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: there after the Valentine's Day dispute. Guys, take a listen 419 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 1: to our friends at People. Shaudrey said that after the murder, 420 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: her father and sister went on like nothing happened. Then 421 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: about a month later, they applied for a marriage license 422 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 1: in Virginia. The father and daughter were married on March eleventh, 423 00:27:55,119 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. Let me understand something, Samantha Harry, Am I 424 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: hearing this correctly? So the father we're talking about is 425 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: fifty five year old Larry McClure. The daughter and his 426 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:20,640 Speaker 1: daughter McClure's daughter, and he McClure go get a marriage certificate. Yes, 427 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: isn't that incest? Do I understand the facts that I'm 428 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: hearing from people dot com? Yes, they did travel mcdell County, 429 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: West Virginia borders of Taswell County, Virginia, and they did 430 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: cross the state line, and they actually did. Mary, So, 431 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: Larry McClure, senior, the registered sex offender, marries who his daughter, 432 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: Amanda Michelle Naylor McClure. They married in Taswell County roughly 433 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks after the murder took place. So, 434 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: Samantha Perry, you just told me that Larry McClure, the 435 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: sex per Register sex offender, married his daughter Amanda McClure. 436 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: But I thought Amanda McClure is the DADA four John 437 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: McGuire's girlfriend. Yes, she was the girlfriend of John McGuire. 438 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: I like your answer. There's only one way to answer that. Yes, 439 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: it kind of sounded like you were holding your nose 440 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: at the time, and I completely agree. Okay, So if 441 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: Samantha Perry with the Bluefield Daily Telegraph is correct, and 442 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: I have strong reason to believe she is the motive 443 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: from murder? Is the discovery of incest? Did does father 444 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: of four John McGuire find out his girlfriend is the 445 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: lover of her own dad? Take a listen to our 446 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: cut number three. This is Katie Johnston at WCCO four knees. 447 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: A Kentucky man and his two daughters are accused of 448 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: killing a Minnesota man last and Valentine's Day. The Bluefield 449 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: Daily Telegraph of West Virginia reports the victim, John McGuire, 450 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: was in a relationship with one of the two daughters. 451 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: Investigators say after the murder, the man and his daughter 452 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: across the state lines then to get married, and a 453 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: letter to court officials this month, Larry McClure from Kentucky 454 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: confesses to the killing and explains the roles he and 455 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: his daughters played in the crime. McClure tolda investigators his daughter, 456 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: Amanda McClure, was in a relationship with McGuire. Larry calls 457 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: Amanda the ringleader of the murder. Now Larry, Amanda, and 458 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: Anna Shoudery are all facing one counter first degree murder 459 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: for McGuire's death. So to Samantha Perry, editor the Bluefield 460 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: Daily Telegraph, am I correct. John McGuire was brutally murdered, 461 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: a painful death because he discovered his girlfriend was in 462 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: an incestuous relationship with her father. Yes, her father would 463 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: basically not tolerate her being with another man. So her 464 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: father had a jealous she was seeing someone else. That 465 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: was her implication. Yes, let's learn more. Take a listen 466 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: to our cut fifteen voice. Yes I did, Yes, I did. 467 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: And if it was three days the hill for you 468 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: or for them, I know what it was. For him. 469 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: It was living hill for you made the main center 470 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: and right believe that when they woke up it was 471 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: be on the street of Manasota. I didn't go to 472 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree, former medical examiner and author, What was 473 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: the mode of death, doctor Dupree? And wasn't Nancy? Apparently 474 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: the person was injected with matthan vetamine, which could be lethal. 475 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,719 Speaker 1: They were reportedly also strangled, which can obviously be lethal. 476 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: Um so, really without an examination of the body, it 477 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: would be difficult to tell. To Angela Ericson, the mother 478 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: of John's three children, Justice, Jacob, and Genesis, what did 479 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: you learn about John's murder? I've learned that he was 480 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: tied up and injected with mess and phetamines. And first 481 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: he was hit over the head with a wine bottle 482 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: that apparently he had gotten for him and Amanda have 483 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: a romantic dinner and Valentine's Day with and then through 484 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: you know, a course of one to three days. I'm 485 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,239 Speaker 1: not really sure, they tortured him and told him that 486 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: the reason they were doing this was because he was 487 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: a criminal informant. And then I learned that they put 488 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: a garbage bag over his head and strangled him to death. 489 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: Take to listen to our friend Josh crap at w 490 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: d TV. Shandre said her father and sister began the 491 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: attack on McGuire, and that her father threatened her children 492 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: if she didn't help bounce. She described how McGuire was 493 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: hit in a head with a bottle of wine, tied 494 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: up and injected with meth amphetamine, and strangled. Chantrey pleaded 495 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: guilty to second degree murder, faces up to forty years 496 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: in prison and also our cut number three. Katie Johnson 497 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: WCCO goes on. McLure told the investigators his daughter, Amanda 498 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: McClure was in a relationship with McGuire. Larry calls Amanda 499 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: the ringleader of the murder. Now Larry, Amanda, and Anna 500 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: Shoudery are all facing one counter first degree murder for 501 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: McGuire's death. So let me understand how this whole thing 502 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: played out, Samantha Perry. What happened between those one and 503 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: three days that John McGuire was tortured till he died? 504 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: They did. Apparently he was hit on the head with 505 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: a blond bottle and injected with meth amphetamine and then 506 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: taught up and then they played out what they called 507 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: the trust game, which was basically, you know, having enough 508 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: trust in each other to allow them to be tied up. 509 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: But basically McGuire was tortured for three days and the 510 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,839 Speaker 1: judge in one of the hearings actually described it as 511 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: three days of hell and Samantha Perry was the whole 512 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 1: torture and murder debacle, but because a fear John McGuire 513 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 1: would rap them out for incest. I'm not sure if 514 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: it was a fear of telling about the incest or 515 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: if it was more of a jealousy on the part 516 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: of Larry McClure and Amanda McClures did buy lent appen 517 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 1: actually took part in it, yes, and Larry McClure painted 518 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: his daughters as the ringleaders. Once this all of this 519 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:58,919 Speaker 1: came out, basically all of them threw each each other 520 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: under the bus. You know, Larry blamed his daughters, the 521 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: daughters blamed their father and said this kind of became 522 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: a blamed game after it came to like, I want 523 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: you to hear John Thomas McGuire's mother, Karen Smith, for 524 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: you to marry your old daughter. That's low dame loved 525 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: on his dirt. But I don't want to live to 526 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: see you or one of your kid's dad before I leave. 527 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: Deserve God's stone, And I hope you remember how Luke 528 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,839 Speaker 1: and how I talk, because if I headed my way, 529 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: I'd have everyone in y'all right, no letter every day 530 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: I killed your son, or at least year a mailed 531 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: to me, so y'all won't for you to be comes. 532 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 1: I don't thank y'all we even care. I don't think 533 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: you have what you care about what you done to 534 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: me and my right places, right comes r my daughters, 535 00:35:54,800 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: sounds sound comes. You're hearing Karen Smith chewing out the 536 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: defendant in this case, Larry Paul McClure, who murdered her son, 537 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: and in the end you hear him speaking unintelligibly, trying 538 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: to blame his daughters for the murder. All three took part, 539 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: and all three are behind bars, all over an incestuous 540 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: relationship that ended in an illegal marriage between father and daughter. 541 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: And there in the backyard lay John McGuire Nancy Grace 542 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 1: Crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,