Speaker 1: Hello, Hi, Basmini.
Speaker 2: How are you. I'm wonderful. How are you?
Speaker 1: I'm great?
Speaker 3: So I I guess I've been thinking about my vagina
Speaker 3: this morning more than I ever do.
Speaker 1: It tends to happen when people have conversations with me
Speaker 1: to come up to me at parties and they're like, so,
Speaker 1: can I talk to you about my US infection?
Speaker 3: I'm like sure, Yeah, I just reminded myself that I
Speaker 3: actually have one, And then I'm right now thinking about
Speaker 3: when I did stand up for the first and only
Speaker 3: time in my life and said that there's no way
Speaker 3: that Gwyneth Paltrow's candle smelled anything like her vagina, even
Speaker 3: on its best day.
Speaker 1: I never smelled that candle, but I wanted to.
Speaker 3: You should have a vagiant I think you should have
Speaker 3: a vagina candle.
Speaker 1: By the way, that's particularly on brand for us, really
Speaker 1: out supporting women's health and making it more about them
Speaker 1: than it is about me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 3: I know. Well good, No, it could be a general
Speaker 3: wellness vagina candel just like putting good good uh energy
Speaker 3: and sense in the air.
Speaker 1: I'll tell the marketing too. I like the idea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's good, it's good. It makes sense to
Speaker 2: talk about your vagina, So it makes sense.
Speaker 1: It does make sense.
Speaker 2: I get it, Okay.
Speaker 3: So I know of you from the Hills obviously, and
Speaker 3: then like peripherally just seeing I guess through social media
Speaker 3: or articles. I didn't even know you worked with Jill
Speaker 3: and Charlie, who I love. And every time Charlie's with me,
Speaker 3: something crazy it happens. Every time Charlie your probalysis is
Speaker 3: with me, something insane happens.
Speaker 1: It's weird he's sending in hearts through the zoom.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's literally something so crazy. Something crazy happens every
Speaker 3: time we're together. So I look and I'm like, here
Speaker 3: we go. What's going to happen today? Like something nuts,
Speaker 3: like someone attacks me or something. So anyway, you're in
Speaker 3: good hands with them. But I know that peripherally I
Speaker 3: have gotten the messages about your business just through your
Speaker 3: social media or like I was aware that you were
Speaker 3: in this female wellness space. So how did you transition
Speaker 3: from the Hills and like, how did you get into this?
Speaker 1: Yeah? So I started Love Wellness in twenty sixteen, and
Speaker 1: in the eight years that have passed me by, I
Speaker 1: suppose the business has grown pretty significantly. We're available now
Speaker 1: stationwide at Walmart, at Target, at Olta. But when I
Speaker 1: started the business, it was very much focused on a
Speaker 1: white space category, which was women's wellness back into twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: and I started the business really out of self need,
Speaker 1: which is like a very common entrepreneur story. But I
Speaker 1: was unwell. I moved to New York in twenty twelve
Speaker 1: and I still live here, and I was going through
Speaker 1: sort of a breakup that was really devastating, but simultaneously
Speaker 1: was dealing with a lot of health issues. I was
Speaker 1: depressed and anxious, but like in a way that felt
Speaker 1: much more significant than I had ever experienced before. It
Speaker 1: was like a crippling type of depression and anxiety where
Speaker 1: I just lay up the ground for a while because
Speaker 1: I couldn't get out of the house. And then I
Speaker 1: was dealing with all of these intimate health issues right
Speaker 1: like UTIs and east infections. And I have obviously shared
Speaker 1: that story before, which is you know why we're here
Speaker 1: talking about maaginal health right now. But I kept going
Speaker 1: to the doctor, and going to the doctor as a
Speaker 1: woman and getting gasoline is a particularly common experience. I
Speaker 1: will give you the example that the word hysteria comes
Speaker 1: from the Greek word history, which means uterus, So we've
Speaker 1: just been gaslet since the beginning of recorded history. When
Speaker 1: it comes to our medical problems and me going to
Speaker 1: the doctor, you know, with these like recurrent symptoms was
Speaker 1: no different. It took me eighteen months from my first
Speaker 1: appointment to the period where my GP finally said, hey,
Speaker 1: let's do a blood test to test your vitamin levels.
Speaker 1: Eighteen months, right, She's like, oh God, lord's your again.
Speaker 1: And that blood test came back and showed that I
Speaker 1: had really severe vitamin deficiencies, which was a very interesting
Speaker 1: data point for me because it allowed me to at
Speaker 1: least begin my own research on how to get better,
Speaker 1: and I could at least go to different doctors saying, hey, like,
Speaker 1: this is really happening in my body. What I'm saying
Speaker 1: and what I'm experiencing is the balid. Long story short,
Speaker 1: I had a gut health problem because I think most
Speaker 1: humans that exist right now have got health problems right Like,
Speaker 1: we take antibiotics, we eat a bunch of processed food,
Speaker 1: we drink alcohol. We are constantly dealing with microbiome disruptors,
Speaker 1: things that basically affect your gut microbiome and bacteria negatively.
Speaker 1: And it turns out that the gut microbiome is not
Speaker 1: only sort of like your sort of home of your
Speaker 1: immune center and your body, but your gut microbiome also
Speaker 1: regulates and promotes your vaginal microbiome, which is responsible for
Speaker 1: the immunity and health of your vagina. And so I
Speaker 1: was sort of able to connect the dots with the
Speaker 1: help of my doctors back in the day to say, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: I have vitamin deficiencies. That makes sense if you have
Speaker 1: a gut health issue, you may have a tougher time
Speaker 1: absorbing the nutrients from your food. Right. So like that
Speaker 1: sort of like explains the path up from like the
Speaker 1: gut to the brain because I was dealing with D
Speaker 1: and B deficiencies, which speaks to sort of those neurological
Speaker 1: concerns that I was, you know, experiencing. And then the
Speaker 1: gut vagina can is also explained, right, And so if
Speaker 1: your vaginal microbiome is in chaos, because your gut microbiome
Speaker 1: is in chaos, you're going to be much more susceptible
Speaker 1: to recurrent infections, irritation, et cetera. And so I had
Speaker 1: all this information based on guidance from doctors and research
Speaker 1: I did, reading medical journals and like literally going so
Speaker 1: far down the road and kept going to the pharmacy
Speaker 1: and to Dwayne read and looking around and feeling like
Speaker 1: there are no solutions that reflect this new research in
Speaker 1: the women's health space, and so why don't I develop
Speaker 1: the innovation with my medical community and with food scientists
Speaker 1: and nutritionists to provide new solutions in this space. And
Speaker 1: so that's exactly what I did. I got to wow,
Speaker 1: jumped off the cler and the rest is history.
Speaker 2: And that was eight years ago.
Speaker 3: And so I asked this because with so much information
Speaker 3: in every single area from just yes, guts and hormones
Speaker 3: and estrogen and menopause and all this stuff, right, so
Speaker 3: I have elevated my medical attention in the set because
Speaker 3: I have a like a concierge doctor, but not one
Speaker 3: of the BS ones or just does prescriptions.
Speaker 2: Like he's very involved.
Speaker 3: And he comes to my house and he takes my
Speaker 3: eco cardiogram, and he takes all my bloods every periodically.
Speaker 3: He and I did the twenty four hour y'urin test
Speaker 3: and all this stuff, and he keeps coming back and
Speaker 3: saying everything looks amazing, and I don't take any vitamins,
Speaker 3: like I don't take vitamins, and I sometimes feel like
Speaker 3: I'm supposed to be entering this space because people are.
Speaker 3: But I don't take hormones and I don't take vitamins,
Speaker 3: and I'm almost and I eat well and I'm almost
Speaker 3: old fashioned. Oh, in the sense that I don't start
Speaker 3: something like I have severe dehydration. It's a big problem
Speaker 3: in my life. U pots things, So that's my thing.
Speaker 3: Like everyone is a different thing that they do, and
Speaker 3: that's my major thing. I have to every day be
Speaker 3: on the case. I have to have different hydration stuff
Speaker 3: like that. That's my thing, and you had a thing that
Speaker 3: was your thing. And my question is for me personally,
Speaker 3: I don't like I'm not experiencing menopausals symptoms either, even
Speaker 3: though I'm fifty three years old, and I feel like
Speaker 3: I'm gaslighting menopause because people ask me about it. I'm like,
Speaker 3: I don't really know. I kind of react to things happening.
Speaker 3: So I just want to talk about that to you,
Speaker 3: because I don't sort of go and search out new
Speaker 3: things to buy and take for me personally, unless I
Speaker 3: feel like there's some version like if there was something
Speaker 3: smelling weird or something was weird, or I was expecting
Speaker 3: sex experiencing sexual problems. So I want to talk about
Speaker 3: that to you overall, like how people know if they're
Speaker 3: supposed to just do something even if it's not affecting
Speaker 3: them that they know of and their doctor's saying it's
Speaker 3: not affecting them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that one of the first things to
Speaker 1: do is really take note of how you're feeling in
Speaker 1: your body, right, Like how do you feel day to day?
Speaker 1: Like how is your energy. I know that this is
Speaker 1: going to be gross, but like are you going to
Speaker 1: the bathroom regularly? Like do you feel like your emotions
Speaker 1: are like on a roller coaster? Right? Because I think
Speaker 1: that there's this idea that we're like generally in good health,
Speaker 1: but there's like small signs that you may be having
Speaker 1: an issue of some kind. But above all, what I
Speaker 1: would say is that finding the right doctor for you
Speaker 1: that really takes a holistic approach to medicine and considers
Speaker 1: total body medicine versus just their specialty which maybe just
Speaker 1: you know, gastroentrology you'r obgyn, and really uses the newest
Speaker 1: clinical research that is available is probably a good place
Speaker 1: to start.
Speaker 3: Yes, digestion has been a lifelong thing and you can
Speaker 3: manage it and then you fall off. I don't love
Speaker 3: to take, don't I don't love to take pills, like
Speaker 3: even if it's neutrafil because I feel like I want
Speaker 3: to make sure my hair stays strong, Like I'll take
Speaker 3: it and then I'll fall off of it. Vitamins make
Speaker 3: me sick, and swallowing things make me like I just
Speaker 3: am not good and diligent about that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3: And that's why I see why the gummy space is
Speaker 3: blown up. But to me, that's like not great for digestion.
Speaker 3: And also it seems a little bs to me because
Speaker 3: I wanted to get in that space because it makes
Speaker 3: it more accessible. And I asked the question if it's
Speaker 3: better to just take a gummy that say that it's
Speaker 3: doing something even if you feel like does it outweigh?
Speaker 3: Does that make any sense like a gummy is gonna have?
Speaker 1: Of course it makes sense in my opinion. And now
Speaker 1: I've been in a supplement space for eight years. As
Speaker 1: I said, I've had extensive conversations with our contract manufacturers,
Speaker 1: our food scientists, and people that actually make these things
Speaker 1: day to day and understand what goes into these things.
Speaker 1: In my opinion, gummies are just candy bullshit, and you
Speaker 1: can't really fit the right amount of ingredients into the
Speaker 1: gummy to have efficacious results. Exactly the ingredients and gummies
Speaker 1: degrade really quickly, and so if you're serious about your health,
Speaker 1: like a capsular tea sure is absolutely in my opinion, again,
Speaker 1: the superior format.
Speaker 3: Yes, and tincture is more manageable because you can put it,
Speaker 3: you can put it inside a liquid. I think a
Speaker 3: tincture to me, or like a tonic type of thing,
Speaker 3: is more a pill.
Speaker 2: I just can't tolerate.
Speaker 3: And I feel the same way that you feel about
Speaker 3: gummies being bullshit, like I really do. Yes, they might
Speaker 3: have something, but I know it's bullshit because I was
Speaker 3: in the space I was. I had Skinny Girl supplements
Speaker 3: and I kept wanting to push for them because of
Speaker 3: course it's I agree, it's candy. You're just like, oh,
Speaker 3: it's set. It's like a Starbucks muffin that you're pretending
Speaker 3: it's like it says it's low fat and like it's
Speaker 3: multi graine and you're supposed to pretend that it's healthy.
Speaker 2: I think it's bullshit too.
Speaker 1: I think what's also interesting in the supplement space is
Speaker 1: that brands like LAG Wellness and you know, all of
Speaker 1: the other brands in the space, consumers are now holding
Speaker 1: us to a higher standard from a testing perspective and
Speaker 1: transparency perspective. So right now we are putting all of
Speaker 1: our products through clinical testing so that we can say, hey, like,
Speaker 1: this product is clinically proven to do X y Z.
Speaker 1: Right now, a lot of brands are using a clinically
Speaker 1: studied ingredient a product and making much bigger claims about
Speaker 1: the product than like is the reality. We're just problematic, right, Like,
Speaker 1: it's false and it's deceptive, and I suspect long term,
Speaker 1: when gummy companies are pushed to do clinicals, that their
Speaker 1: products will most likely fail becau it's a result of
Speaker 1: you know, the true like inefficacy of that format, if
Speaker 1: that makes sense. And so I think that there will
Speaker 1: be a gummy reckoning in the next year or so
Speaker 1: where consumers start to learn more about the format and
Speaker 1: learn about the I think so to problems with the format,
Speaker 1: and like, if you really are looking for health benefits
Speaker 1: and to support your health, like a different format is
Speaker 1: the way to go. And I will also say, you know,
Speaker 1: before I started my business, before I knew that I
Speaker 1: had like vitamin deficiencies as a true cause of health issues,
Speaker 1: I also was like, oh, like, I don't really think
Speaker 1: that supplements are the real deal. I don't think that
Speaker 1: like they're important, and now that I see how much
Speaker 1: they can release support overall health, especially in women's bodies
Speaker 1: with the things that we're dealing with, you know, I
Speaker 1: really do believe in what we make and what we sell.
Speaker 2: Well, if what would you start with if you were me?
Speaker 3: Based on what I said, like behind you, there's so
Speaker 3: much stuff that's overwhelming.
Speaker 2: I get things. They're my cabinet.
Speaker 3: I like the idea of magnesium and calm and those
Speaker 3: powders like that that I understand.
Speaker 2: I've tried Magnus seven. That's good for digestion.
Speaker 3: I like the idea of neutrophil because I get it,
Speaker 3: Like those are things that are direct. Some of these
Speaker 3: nuanced things are too intimidating and overwhelming for me.
Speaker 1: Right, So this is not medical advice, right, only your
Speaker 1: doctor can give medical as your friend.
Speaker 2: This is a girlfriend advice.
Speaker 1: As a friend. I would say that a lot of people,
Speaker 1: a lot of Americans are struggling with a vitamin defficiency
Speaker 1: of some sort. The CDC notes that ninety percent of
Speaker 1: Americans have a vitamin deficiency. And I'm also the belief
Speaker 1: that most of us probably have some some kind of
Speaker 1: gut health issues. What's tough is that it's tough to
Speaker 1: test that. Like, yeah, you could like literally like do
Speaker 1: a microbiome test of your stool, but we don't have
Speaker 1: a great picture of what a healthy microbiome looks like.
Speaker 1: It could be different in every person, Like we don't
Speaker 1: really know yet from a scientific perspective. So what I
Speaker 1: would actually recommend before you go down the summits road
Speaker 1: is to talk to your doctor about your gut health
Speaker 1: and your gut health symptoms, and first start with an
Speaker 1: elimination diet, because an elimination diet is a really good
Speaker 1: place to start to understand what some of your potential
Speaker 1: trigger foods could be that may be leading to gut dysbiosis,
Speaker 1: that may be leading to inflammation. Right, And so I
Speaker 1: think that there's a lot that you can do before
Speaker 1: you go down the supplement's road to better understand your
Speaker 1: own body and the things that you may be struggling with. First,
Speaker 1: but I do think a good multivitamin and a good
Speaker 1: probiotic is a great good start for anybody, just because
Speaker 1: of all of the environmental factors, lifestyle factors, et cetera
Speaker 1: that we all know that we're dealing with every single day.
Speaker 3: It's funny the entry points because you could come at
Speaker 3: things in a different way. And for me by digestion
Speaker 3: has always been an issue and the thing that helps
Speaker 3: digestion for me is sleeping and being.
Speaker 2: Dehydration, I think is.
Speaker 3: Such a big issue that people don't talk about enough,
Speaker 3: Like it's not something that commonly.
Speaker 2: I hear people talking.
Speaker 3: About, yes, I feel dehydrated or today, but like as
Speaker 3: a debilitating issue. And I'll hear so many different people
Speaker 3: say that they have like a terrible headache, and I'll
Speaker 3: be like, you're dehydra like they don't realize. Or I
Speaker 3: you know something I drank last night and it hit
Speaker 3: me weird. I'm like, how dehydrated were you? Or like
Speaker 3: you were traveling. I think dehydration is such a thing
Speaker 3: that you know, I always make jokes and I'm a
Speaker 3: thirsty bitch, but I feel it affects digestion too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hydration definitely can have they believe the negative and
Speaker 1: popt on gut.
Speaker 2: Help and absorption affects hydration too, correct.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absorption from you know, absorption and hydration are all connected.
Speaker 1: And that's actually we're working on something. I loved wellness
Speaker 1: that sort of speaks to that that's coming to you
Speaker 1: what we're really excited about. But hydration also can a
Speaker 1: flex effect, like your blood pressure and like all these
Speaker 1: different things throughout your body that I don't think that
Speaker 1: people have like broad awareness on totally.
Speaker 2: It's my problem, that's my issue.
Speaker 1: So yes, but I can drink your drink, your water,
Speaker 1: toss and electrolyte in totally help those little cells hold
Speaker 1: on to that salt. You know.
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm a person that affects my blood pressure. I
Speaker 3: fains like I have severe dehydration issues. So you were
Speaker 3: on the hills and when you came up with this,
Speaker 3: you had this debilitating depression and you started in this business.
Speaker 3: Did you have money? How were you supporting yourself? Who
Speaker 3: who backed this?
Speaker 2: Do you have partners?
Speaker 1: So I started the business on my own with the
Speaker 1: small amount of savings I had left from my last
Speaker 1: season on the hills, Okay, and I operated the business
Speaker 1: for the first two years as a solo founder and operator.
Speaker 1: I was the one who's just like completely running the business.
Speaker 1: And in the second or third year, I started to realize,
Speaker 1: I think this could be a real business. I think
Speaker 1: we are genuinely affecting women's lives in a really positive way.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean the money like was like literally
Speaker 1: my last savings. So I was transitioning from a point
Speaker 1: where the hills ended. In twenty ten, I moved to
Speaker 1: Califora started moved to New York in twenty twelve. I
Speaker 1: had gone to culinary school when I first moved to
Speaker 1: New York because I loved to cook, and at culinary
Speaker 1: school I started to become really passionate about nutrition and
Speaker 1: understanding kind of healthy food swaps and things like that.
Speaker 2: Same so where did you go to the.
Speaker 1: French Culinary Institute and soho.
Speaker 2: Oh amazing, Okay, okay, I went to Natural Gourmet that's
Speaker 2: a rat.
Speaker 1: And I started creating all this cooking content and all
Speaker 1: this stuff. And I really love science. I'm like so
Speaker 1: passionate about the subject matter, whatever it is. And when
Speaker 1: I started to be able to tie my own experience
Speaker 1: to the nutrition information I was learning about, I started
Speaker 1: to get really excited and passionate about it, and I
Speaker 1: think entrepreneurship was probably always going to be the path
Speaker 1: for me. I didn't know where I would land, per se,
Speaker 1: but I felt like my idea and my concept was
Speaker 1: a really good one because when I started using boric
Speaker 1: acid and probiotics and intimate cleansers without fragrance, and my
Speaker 1: health fundamentally changed for the better. And I thought, this
Speaker 1: experience can be replicated and it can be made beautiful.
Speaker 1: We can educate people about their bodies to reduce shame
Speaker 1: and stigma, and yeah, so I just I kind of
Speaker 1: went for it. And at the time on my social channels,
Speaker 1: I had started to talk about my depression and my
Speaker 1: health and it was very challenging for me. I think
Speaker 1: coming off reality TV, and everyone knows now that if
Speaker 1: you were on reality TV, it's a very traumatic experience.
Speaker 1: You talk about this a lot. There's a lot that
Speaker 1: the audience doesn't see or know about the experience that
Speaker 1: a lot of us just kind of sit on and
Speaker 1: you kind of deal with it and move forward anyway.
Speaker 1: But I decided that like part of my healing from
Speaker 1: being on those shows was to talk about what I
Speaker 1: was actually experiencing. With so my social media community really
Speaker 1: became a very supportive community for the health issues that
Speaker 1: I was struggling with, and so launching the business to
Speaker 1: a certain degree was a very natural segue for me
Speaker 1: at the time, because I was so entrenched in these
Speaker 1: health struggles and I was like sharing my health struggles
Speaker 1: with my natural line.
Speaker 3: It's funny because I've been talking for the first time.
Speaker 3: I went through a decade long, horrific divorce, and once
Speaker 3: it was quote unquote over, I think I just shut
Speaker 3: the door because I had also been on reality TV,
Speaker 3: and I just didn't realize what was like inside of
Speaker 3: me until really recently. And I've been calling it on
Speaker 3: lock trauma because all these women are coming forward and
Speaker 3: like sharing, and it's just like this thing I did
Speaker 3: not expect, but these like unlocked traumas from yeah, and
Speaker 3: you're right, like the reality TV played into it too,
Speaker 3: and it becomes your identity and you're like living in
Speaker 3: this judgment and this toxic environment that you've pretended is
Speaker 3: normal in any way whatsoever.
Speaker 2: But it's over.
Speaker 3: And then also you're probably type cast even sometimes now
Speaker 3: like myself sometimes where you're that girl from the hills
Speaker 3: despite the one hundred million dollar business you've built.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. I was talking to brand the other day
Speaker 1: and they were like, oh, should your byline be reality TV? Person?
Speaker 1: I was like, actually, I'm the founder and chair of
Speaker 1: this business that you know has like fundamentally changed women's
Speaker 1: health in this country. But sure real TV.
Speaker 2: Is fine? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: And because you're not here, you're dancing with the one
Speaker 3: who brung you also, But it's ridiculous and I really
Speaker 3: get that too. So I guess part of your identity
Speaker 3: right now in what I was reading about, you were
Speaker 3: part of the discussion in the conversation emotional health and
Speaker 3: being single at thirty seven and is there a stigma?
Speaker 3: And you're supposed to be doing something and you're supposed
Speaker 3: to be meeting someone, and you're supposed to be having kids.
Speaker 3: And it's weird because I'm feeling these parallel paths to
Speaker 3: you with you a that I went to culinary school
Speaker 3: for food and healing, literally, but be that I'm right
Speaker 3: now talking about this path that I felt that I
Speaker 3: needed to be on at thirty seven, which was fear
Speaker 3: based about having kids and locking it down and meeting
Speaker 3: someone and like that, no one's marketing to young women,
Speaker 3: and I consider you young. There are younger women, but
Speaker 3: I'm considering all ages from let's pretend like twenty two
Speaker 3: to in their forties. No one's talking about like what
Speaker 3: it really means to get married and that it really does,
Speaker 3: like the statistics about divorce and the fact that people
Speaker 3: are settling, the fact that people aren't being logical and
Speaker 3: reading red flags, and the fact that women who I
Speaker 3: know are making hundreds of thousands of dollars feel uncomfortable
Speaker 3: having someone sign a prenup, Like it's like so illogical
Speaker 3: and so archaic, the way that women are feeling about
Speaker 3: having to be in a relationship. And I think that
Speaker 3: there's like a we're on the precipice. And I think
Speaker 3: I'm contributing to this of it being like, no, actually
Speaker 3: you have to be a full person and you're really great,
Speaker 3: not just because you're saying you're really great, but you like,
Speaker 3: actually are really great being alone. You don't need quote
Speaker 3: unquote a man or a woman. So I want to
Speaker 3: know you where you are in that vortex.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I was single for the past four or
Speaker 1: five years. I've been dating somebody for the past five
Speaker 1: months who is absolutely incredible and It took me a
Speaker 1: very long time to get to a place where I
Speaker 1: was actually comfortable on my own because I did buy
Speaker 1: into all of that bs about your behind. You know,
Speaker 1: how could you be single? You know all of these things,
Speaker 1: and it really was tough for me. I think because
Speaker 1: of the expectation that I should be married, i should
Speaker 1: have a family, when in reality, I'm going to work
Speaker 1: every day and like kicking my own ass to like
Speaker 1: grow this business, whereas if a man was in my position,
Speaker 1: he would be applauded.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: You should see the number of dms like why are
Speaker 1: you married yet? Like visit you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like drove me crazy over the past couple of years.
Speaker 2: But that also has a little of misery. Loves companies.
Speaker 3: Some people are not like that, thrilled in their own
Speaker 3: lives and they want someone else to be like on
Speaker 3: their road.
Speaker 2: They don't know how to be open minded.
Speaker 3: It would be incomprehensible that a woman would just choose
Speaker 3: to be alone or not have met the right person
Speaker 3: and not be making decisions out of fear.
Speaker 1: Of course. But I think all of this to say
Speaker 1: is that when I was really struggling emotionally with being single,
Speaker 1: I was not the best version of myself. It probably
Speaker 1: could be in a really successful relationship with the type
Speaker 1: of partner that I deserve, right, And it's why I
Speaker 1: dated guys for so many years and chased assholes that
Speaker 1: had like red flags like coming out of their butts,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It wasn't until last year
Speaker 1: when I finally like came to a place of peace
Speaker 1: with my own situation that the perfect man appears, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And now, because I feel like
Speaker 1: I'd peeled through that trauma, I am ready and able
Speaker 1: to be in a relationship you know that I am
Speaker 1: deserving of at this point in my life. Right.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's interesting because I was talking to a woman
Speaker 3: who specializes in like the dating space and I read
Speaker 3: an article and I don't think that women, young women
Speaker 3: are checking in with themselves and saying what you just said,
Speaker 3: which is this article that she wrote was saying, if
Speaker 3: you want to start dating and you want to start
Speaker 3: meeting people, make sure that you're the full person that
Speaker 3: you would want to date. And you know what that is,
Speaker 3: Like I remember being the person that was up late
Speaker 3: night like binging, drinking, like miserable, depressed, like the way
Speaker 3: make up the next day, try to be better or
Speaker 3: feeling depressed or miserable or lonely or mercurial, like it's
Speaker 3: hard in the moment to check in, but I don't.
Speaker 2: I definitely know. I never asked myself that question.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I started to have to ask myself that question,
Speaker 1: you know, when like the relationships I continued to be
Speaker 1: and were really failed relationships. And what was my role
Speaker 1: in the failed relationship?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Some of the time I didn't show up. Sometimes I
Speaker 1: go to people, right, So it was a reflection of
Speaker 1: my own immaturity, right. And I think for me though,
Speaker 1: the Internet to a certain degree played a role in
Speaker 1: it for me, because I think that everyone on the
Speaker 1: Internet presents this happy version of themselves, right like through
Speaker 1: their marriages, through their children, their engagements and all this stuff.
Speaker 1: And I for years felt so less then because I
Speaker 1: wasn't able to share things of that nature, do you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? And so I think that while
Speaker 1: like we have just even us like having this converse
Speaker 1: about this topic, I think like helps to like move
Speaker 1: the needle to a certain degree, but I think social
Speaker 1: media like creates an imbalance there that even goes beyond
Speaker 1: just regular societal norms, and I think I really struggled
Speaker 1: with that personal well.
Speaker 3: I was talking last night to somebody about The Bachelor
Speaker 3: and the responsibility of the bat You have two people,
Speaker 3: Let's say someone's mom is a nurse or the dead,
Speaker 3: you know, is a middle class working person. They're not
Speaker 3: casting billionaires on the show. So you have two people
Speaker 3: that meet and then you take them to the most exotic,
Speaker 3: gorgeous place, is the most incredible experience. No one's talking
Speaker 3: about money, no one's talking about religion, no one's talking
Speaker 3: about politics that doesn't exist in Disneyland, and they're all going,
Speaker 3: who's not going to fall in love with somebody eating
Speaker 3: caviar on the mountaintop jumping out of an airplane. And
Speaker 3: so then they come back to their real lives and
Speaker 3: it's like this irresponsible situation where you even have the
Speaker 3: Golden Bachelor, which was like all these women, you know
Speaker 3: my age, were so excited because it's such bullshit, Like
Speaker 3: it's not really like, let's talk about what really goes
Speaker 3: on when people have to deal with financial issues, or
Speaker 3: would you do therapy? Like it's kind of irresponsible for
Speaker 3: people to get this either fairy tale with like just
Speaker 3: the dress and the Ring or these shows that are
Speaker 3: doing this or social media. Everyone's showing the perfection of
Speaker 3: their relationship. One day they break up and they want
Speaker 3: you to then respect their privacy when.
Speaker 2: They only showed you.
Speaker 3: They always showed you the fantasy, the fairy tale, the
Speaker 3: j lo a Rod were invested in their co mingling
Speaker 3: of the family, and one day it just crashes and
Speaker 3: burns and we're left to respect the privacy. And it's like,
Speaker 3: that's you know what we're we're fed. We're not fed
Speaker 3: that there's a sixty percent chance of divorce, So we
Speaker 3: might as well start educating ourselves on relationships and what
Speaker 3: really it takes or who you are and why you're
Speaker 3: making these choices.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think for me, if you are not able,
Speaker 1: or if you're not in a relationship where you can
Speaker 1: have a very straightforward conversation where emotion doesn't play like
Speaker 1: a leading role in it about where you want to
Speaker 1: live or your finances or children or all of that stuff, like,
Speaker 1: you may not be ready for that relationship, right. I
Speaker 1: think that when you feel good about yourself and your
Speaker 1: solid and who you are, you're much more inclined to
Speaker 1: be able to speak to those things about a partner
Speaker 1: that you love, and it is like hoping has the
Speaker 1: same POV or has a different POV and you can
Speaker 1: come to a new conclusion together. Right. I keep seeing
Speaker 1: I keep seeing these things on the internet from sort
Speaker 1: of like I don't know, they're psychotherapists, sort of driven
Speaker 1: off eds, but they're actually really great. And they make
Speaker 1: this suggestion about implementing a monthly relationship check in or
Speaker 1: you know what, you choose the timeline right, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's like a list of questions you can talk to
Speaker 1: your partner about or ask you a partner about in
Speaker 1: terms of like check ins right like this month, you know,
Speaker 1: like did you feel like I showed up for you
Speaker 1: in the right way? Or you know what could I
Speaker 1: have done differently? Or this is what I'm bored on.
Speaker 1: And I think that those types of suggestions are so good,
Speaker 1: But again, it takes so much work, emotional work to
Speaker 1: be able to get to a place where you can
Speaker 1: be like, hey, honey.
Speaker 3: Like it's not sexy, it's not that sexy. It's tedious,
Speaker 3: but yes.
Speaker 1: It's not it's not sexy. But I do think fundamentally
Speaker 1: it's a really good exercise because just to your point,
Speaker 1: you can go on vacation and everything seems amazing, but
Speaker 1: there might be one or two things that you know
Speaker 1: were in the back of your mind that like you
Speaker 1: wish you could talk about. But so maybe the list
Speaker 1: is like a good format for that right to like
Speaker 1: encourage the conversation. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's no. I think it's interesting.
Speaker 3: I call it what you're talking about getting in a
Speaker 3: car and the beginning, everything seems great. So you might
Speaker 3: get in a car and it has a sign that
Speaker 3: it's going to a different place than you want to go,
Speaker 3: but you're like, it's fine, that seems fun, let's do that,
Speaker 3: and then you're in the wrong car, not like looking
Speaker 3: over at the passenger being like, wait a second, now
Speaker 3: we're getting off here. Now we're doing this like I
Speaker 3: you know, and it's your it's kind of your own
Speaker 3: fault because you got in the wrong car and you
Speaker 3: didn't check in like for the journey of where you're going.
Speaker 3: I think so anyway, I think that's just interesting. What
Speaker 3: is your relationship to the Hills and the other girls
Speaker 3: and their trajectory?
Speaker 2: Like, are you guys friends? Are you college?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: What's your relationship is girls?
Speaker 1: It's interesting. Lorne and I are friends, and there are
Speaker 1: rumblings that there may be a twentieth anniversary special of
Speaker 1: Laguna Beach. That's like coming down the pipeline maybe, Okay.
Speaker 1: I sort of talked to a couple of people about
Speaker 1: it because we graduated from high school in two thousand
Speaker 1: and four, and so it's twenty twenty four. It is
Speaker 1: our true twenty year high school reunion this year, and
Speaker 1: so in the context of Laguna, I think that it
Speaker 1: would be great to get back together with the old gang.
Speaker 1: I think that everybody is doing really well. Everybody is
Speaker 1: really friendly, and Laguna was like a kind nice version
Speaker 1: of reality TV. Right, you get to the Hills and
Speaker 1: it's like much bigger the drama and trauma perspective, right,
Speaker 1: And so the people on the hills, I think the
Speaker 1: relationships are more challenged because of the experiences that we
Speaker 1: went through a man not of our own, not by
Speaker 1: our own fault, right, We right, like very young women
Speaker 1: like constantly put into compromised situations where we had to
Speaker 1: basically like blood sported out against each other to get
Speaker 1: through a day of production.
Speaker 3: Zero game, it's kill or be killed, and if you
Speaker 3: kill someone, you're doing your job, so you're rewarded for
Speaker 3: bad behavior. It's the upside down. If someone gets drunk
Speaker 3: or does say something terrible, that's rewarded with ratings. If
Speaker 3: someone is boring and nice, that's penalized. So you're in
Speaker 3: the upside down and you're at your job. If you're
Speaker 3: a soldier and you're the unsullied and Game of Thrones,
Speaker 3: you're supposed to go kill people. And I was an
Speaker 3: excellent reality star, like, you know, one of the best
Speaker 3: there's been because I and so, yeah, some people think
Speaker 3: I just want to go kill people. And I've met
Speaker 3: people in this environment since leaving it and think they're lovely,
Speaker 3: and I like literally was brainwashed into thinking they weren't
Speaker 3: lovely on my show and you know, other franchises, because
Speaker 3: you're supposed to be in a competition with these people.
Speaker 3: That's just what is bread.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think for me, I was not as good
Speaker 1: on reality TV because I was always too afraid to
Speaker 1: like really jump in and I'm just not really that
Speaker 1: way by my teacher, and so I like served a
Speaker 1: very specific role, which I'm actually grateful for in hindsight,
Speaker 1: I didn't really have to get into it too much.
Speaker 1: But in the areas where I did. It still kind
Speaker 1: of haunts me to this day because there's so many
Speaker 1: stories behind the story that everybody saw on television that
Speaker 1: run very counter to like what the public think about you, right,
Speaker 1: And so I think that that is tough for me
Speaker 1: to have to sort of like deal with, right, And
Speaker 1: I don't think about it that much. But again, preparing
Speaker 1: for this podcast, like, I woke up with anxiety this
Speaker 1: morning because I was like, oh my gosh, I'm talking
Speaker 1: to Bethany today, like one of the greatest reality stars
Speaker 1: of all time, and like, is she gonna ask me
Speaker 1: scary questions I don't want to answer, you know.
Speaker 3: No, But the thing is you I'm not saying you're
Speaker 3: like herve necessarily that she's really sweet and I like
Speaker 3: her a lot, and she's she wants nothing to do
Speaker 3: with any of this. Tinsley is an example. You would
Speaker 3: have been Tinsley on my show. She was a nice
Speaker 3: girl who came in and just like was good, you know,
Speaker 3: like a secondary or a second tier character, and was
Speaker 3: lovely and amazing, and like I would have conflict with
Speaker 3: her because that was my job. And don't forget, I
Speaker 3: grew up at the racetrack, like raised by animals, and
Speaker 3: I could, like I could come in and and make
Speaker 3: a TV and do it and land the plane and
Speaker 3: didn't even think about it was just what you did.
Speaker 2: You moved product. Like you move product, you're moving story.
Speaker 3: So Tinsley's someone that off the show, like I really
Speaker 3: think is a lovely person. I'm really happy for her,
Speaker 3: and I always think of her as that example of
Speaker 3: someone like if you and I were on the show together,
Speaker 3: you'd probably hate me now, you'd think she's frightening, Like
Speaker 3: holy shit, you know, because I was at war and
Speaker 3: now meeting all these people that all have different types
Speaker 3: of personalities. Not everybody's the alpha, not everybody. You know,
Speaker 3: people fill in the whole puzzle of life. But you
Speaker 3: don't cast that with reality TV. You want people to
Speaker 3: come in and have conflicts. So I understand exactly what
Speaker 3: you're talking about. And I bring up Tinsley because I
Speaker 3: really liked her. I support her, and it was a
Speaker 3: different experience off the show than what happened on the show,
Speaker 3: which I regret. And it wasn't even a big thing
Speaker 3: that happened with her and I were fine. I'm just
Speaker 3: saying it's just things that I think about and remember
Speaker 3: because it's traumatic for everybody completely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think for us, we were some of
Speaker 1: the earliest people on reality TV in the context that
Speaker 1: people think about when it comes to reality TV people,
Speaker 1: and so like we were like the first little you
Speaker 1: know people in that Petrie dish, and we had to
Speaker 1: learn very much in real time that what we're experiencing
Speaker 1: actually is not what is being you know, edited on
Speaker 1: the cutting room floor and then shared with the world.
Speaker 3: But you also don't even know you're on a show.
Speaker 3: You don't realize what's going on. You did not know
Speaker 3: there's a whiteboard. You think your people are right.
Speaker 2: I had no.
Speaker 1: Idea in those early years that the executive producers are
Speaker 1: in a room with whiteboards and that now the entire
Speaker 1: season and post it notes being like we're going to
Speaker 1: have this person do this, and we're going to have
Speaker 1: this person do this. I don't know if on Real
Speaker 1: Housewives they did this, but on the Hills, we would
Speaker 1: shoot a scene and after we would shoot it once,
Speaker 1: they'd be like, okay, guys, time to repoe the cameras
Speaker 1: and they would move the cameras to a different position
Speaker 1: and they would shoot the scene again. And they would
Speaker 1: do it up to five or six times for each scene.
Speaker 1: And so that's part of why I think on the
Speaker 1: Hills in real life there wasn't a lot of conflict,
Speaker 1: and then the show would come out and it would
Speaker 1: be produced to show incredible conflict between people. But when
Speaker 1: you shoot a scene and then next year it would
Speaker 1: inform Yeah, right, people see themselves getting shit on or
Speaker 1: as the villain when the show comes out, not reflective
Speaker 1: of the current reality, but it informs your thinking. It
Speaker 1: informs your behavior on a go forward basis, Oh, she
Speaker 1: doesn't like me, I'm going to actually not like her
Speaker 1: in real life. And that for me is like, how
Speaker 1: do I make this better? There's no way to make
Speaker 1: it better. I exactly start to like talk about it.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: There's not a lot of recourse for us except for
Speaker 1: sharing our stories and telling people what really went on.
Speaker 3: It's so true and for me, like looking at all
Speaker 3: those the women and it all, I see everyone different.
Speaker 3: I see people that I really disliked, even a US
Speaker 3: all franchises, because I see that they're doing their job,
Speaker 3: that they're being paid for, and I realize that that's
Speaker 3: not exactly who they are. And it's very tempting when
Speaker 3: it gets to a certain financial level, and I sadly
Speaker 3: get it.
Speaker 2: I don't have to do that.
Speaker 3: And I think that the genre has changed and gotten
Speaker 3: infinitely more disgusting and more toxic because.
Speaker 2: You have to raise the game.
Speaker 3: So you when you were on Laguna, who were who
Speaker 3: were the people?
Speaker 2: Stephen? It was? It was Kristin, you.
Speaker 1: And Stephen, Kristin, Lauren, myself, Christina Schuler, Morgan Smith, a
Speaker 1: couple of others. Theater.
Speaker 3: You know, it was like our real little crew from Laguna,
Speaker 3: and like Brody wasn't until later you were on the Hills.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, okay.
Speaker 1: It was small, you know, it's like less maybe it
Speaker 1: was one hundred and fifty kids per class, and we
Speaker 1: were a really tight knit community. Everybody had grown up
Speaker 1: with each other, you know, since we were young. So
Speaker 1: it's a very like tight knit little crew of people
Speaker 1: on that show. And the first season or two of Laguna,
Speaker 1: the original executive producers and team that created the show
Speaker 1: were so kind and so nice, and then the production
Speaker 1: team flipped to to her aggressive style leadership. And that's
Speaker 1: when you know you're getting paid a decent amount of
Speaker 1: money and your boss, the executive producer is like, you're
Speaker 1: going to do this, yes. Now.
Speaker 3: Heidi and Spencer were on my talk show and they
Speaker 3: said that they would get like rewarded with that. She
Speaker 3: got like a burkin or something for when he threw
Speaker 3: out of the car and he's like, I would never
Speaker 3: throw out of the car.
Speaker 2: And they're still together to this day.
Speaker 3: Them being you know, in a relationship to this day
Speaker 3: says something. It says like it couldn't have all been real,
Speaker 3: which we know. And Lauren was the first entrepreneur that
Speaker 3: I remember. I remember calling this agent and wanting to
Speaker 3: be represented and she's, you know, younger than I am,
Speaker 3: and they said, he's all focused on Lauren like she
Speaker 3: was crushing the game, and then she really kind of
Speaker 3: stepped back and just checked out. As it seems like
Speaker 3: Whitney didn't a way too. Do you think that's because
Speaker 3: it was just like also public and commercial or just
Speaker 3: like the nature of life and getting you know, in relationships,
Speaker 3: because I remember, you don't really see much about Lauren
Speaker 3: at all anymore, and she was like the first big
Speaker 3: commercial one to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that they were famous to a degree
Speaker 1: that whenever anything happened that was negative, the glowback felt
Speaker 1: so significant and so life changing that you really live
Speaker 1: with that trauma and it affects you want to go
Speaker 1: forward basis in terms of how much you're inclined to
Speaker 1: share with people. Right, totally, Hey, I did this. The
Speaker 1: experience that I had of this is very negative. Why
Speaker 1: would I continue to do this?
Speaker 3: And also, you were being paid to share. You were
Speaker 3: being paid and to share your life. It was literally
Speaker 3: a transaction now like, for example me, I'm not paid
Speaker 3: to share my life. I'll share what I want when
Speaker 3: I want, and no one I don't have to, like
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, even with Jill, my publicist,
Speaker 3: like she'll make tough shit you to say anything, say
Speaker 3: whatever you want, Like you're not in a car, but
Speaker 3: you could say to me, oh what about this? I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 3: you write me a check if you want.
Speaker 2: Me to tell you that. I'm to tell you anything
Speaker 2: I don't want to tell you.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think we're not being paid to share your whole
Speaker 2: life anymore.
Speaker 1: Right. I think many of us had tough experiences, you know,
Speaker 1: on the Internet and you know, social media and all
Speaker 1: of that stuff, which is everybody understands that now. And
Speaker 1: so I think that people do get why there's a hesitation.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like we had these terrible experiences that
Speaker 1: were very unique at the time, and now they're better understood.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean enough people online say horrible things
Speaker 1: about you for long enough that you are not inclined
Speaker 1: to continue to share parts about your life, especially again
Speaker 1: when you stop being paid to do so.
Speaker 3: Totally you're the best. Wow, Well, did I scare you
Speaker 3: at all? You said you had anxiety. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: Did I Did I scare you at all? No?
Speaker 1: I will say I saw you last summer at Sagpizza
Speaker 1: and you're with your family, and I was like, should
Speaker 1: I say hi? And I was like no, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna like letter do you do you go to the Hampton? Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course you do. Were mostly Sag Harbor. I think
Speaker 1: this summer Bridge Hampton, but yeah, I go on every summer.
Speaker 3: Oh well, let's get together in the Hamptons. I'm gonna
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be there. I just renovated a new house
Speaker 3: on the beach and I'm like getting ready, it's happening now.
Speaker 2: I'm excited.
Speaker 1: Wow, I love that. And the weather just turned so nice.
Speaker 3: I yay, amazing. Oh well, I will be thinking about
Speaker 3: my vagina all day now and other parts of my body.
Speaker 3: And I'm so proud of you. Congratulations on all your
Speaker 3: success and on your amazing publicist team. And I can't
Speaker 3: wait to try some of the things. It's so much
Speaker 3: behind you. I got to look it up online and like,
Speaker 3: see what I want.
Speaker 1: We will send you everything from Lovelannas, or if you
Speaker 1: want to go shopping, you can go to Old cub
Speaker 1: Walmart or Target and fine.
Speaker 3: Amazing, amazing, great, great space making meaning out of a
Speaker 3: crazy start.
Speaker 2: So thank you so much, awesome. I have a great day.