Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a brid egg.
Speaker 2: Friday egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Friday Frida Egg, fridagg
Speaker 2: bride egg Lie.
Speaker 1: I'm about ready to run off of the hump course.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast.
Speaker 1: I am your host, Andy Johnson. We're here. It is
Speaker 1: Masters week. Uh. This is the eighty ninth playing of
Speaker 1: the Masters, and I'm quite quite excited. I I, along
Speaker 1: with Brendan Porth and Cameron heard us from our team
Speaker 1: will be on the ground at Augustin National all week.
Speaker 1: We have a huge week. Uh. You know, we will
Speaker 1: be pumping out content and uh this is the start
Speaker 1: of that content. I guess last week's podcast was too.
Speaker 1: But I am joined by the great Hi may Ds. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, anybody that has read golf for the last
Speaker 1: uh for decades knows who Hi may Ds is one
Speaker 1: of the greatest golf writers uh really ever and UH
Speaker 1: it was just such an honor to have him on
Speaker 1: the podcast. Uh. Hi may is a writer at large
Speaker 1: at Golf Digest and is a contributor for Golf Channels
Speaker 1: Live from so Hi, May joined me to do our
Speaker 1: traditional five things about the Masters. I come up with five,
Speaker 1: he comes up with five. We chat him out.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: This was really a fun conversation and I hope it
Speaker 1: gets you guys into the master's mood. A few housekeeping
Speaker 1: things if you if you if you don't already, please
Speaker 1: sign up for our free newsletter, go over to the
Speaker 1: fried egg dot com sign up there. We will be
Speaker 1: doing daily newsletters from the Masters. That's where you're gonna
Speaker 1: get on the ground insight during the week from me Brendan,
Speaker 1: insights from some of our talented staff that are watching
Speaker 1: the Masters, like Joseph Lamanya, Garrett Morrison, Will Knights, and
Speaker 1: well it'll keep you in the know of everything going on.
Speaker 1: I know we're doing a pool for this first major
Speaker 1: of the year. We should have some awesome prizes. It
Speaker 1: will be free to join, so keep your eyes peeled
Speaker 1: for that. And we still have some of the major
Speaker 1: that first major themed merchandise. If you want to go
Speaker 1: over to our pro shop so proshop dot Thefridagg dot com.
Speaker 1: There's some cool stuff in there. I am particularly high
Speaker 1: on that. Mackenzie Bunker Gear. We just got a one
Speaker 1: of the T shirts at our house. My wife promptly
Speaker 1: stole it from me, so I'm going to be hoping
Speaker 1: for a return so that i can get another one
Speaker 1: sent out here. But Meg and our team Cameron did
Speaker 1: the illustration on that did an awesome job with all
Speaker 1: the merchandise, So go over there check that out. This
Speaker 1: is a huge week and we will maybe drop another
Speaker 1: episode in here. I'm not going to promise it, I
Speaker 1: would I would venture to say we probably won't, but
Speaker 1: possible that we drop another episode in here. But coming
Speaker 1: back to recap it all after the Masters next week
Speaker 1: will be Trevor Immelman, so that'll be kind of your
Speaker 1: Master's slate on this podcast. If you're interested in daili's
Speaker 1: go check out the Shotgun Start feed. That'll be me
Speaker 1: and Brendan breaking down the what's going on from the
Speaker 1: grounds every day. We will have a live show on
Speaker 1: Tuesday night for the Shotgun Start on the Frida Egg
Speaker 1: YouTube page at six pm Eastern. Before we get to
Speaker 1: I may, let's talk about our partner, our partner that
Speaker 1: has been with us for a long time. Be dratty
Speaker 1: they you know, I think about my first trip to
Speaker 1: Augusta National, first trip to the Masters. It was I
Speaker 1: was riding in the car with Jack Lessing, who works
Speaker 1: works for B Dratty executive there. We were driving down
Speaker 1: from Sweeten's Cove and that's kind of the nascent days
Speaker 1: of this partnership. That was That would have been twenty seventeen,
Speaker 1: and it's been really cool to see their brand grow
Speaker 1: and our brand grow, and we've been able to do
Speaker 1: this Master's kind of partnership for years. So they have
Speaker 1: some awesome, awesome gear. Right now, I'm wearing their cool hoodie.
Speaker 1: They're Cool Line, whether it be you know, your kind
Speaker 1: of B dratty sport, but also these pullovers are awesome.
Speaker 1: I am a huge fan of the Cool hoodie. I
Speaker 1: wear it a ton, Especially with cooler California mornings, I
Speaker 1: find myself wearing the Cool Line a ton. They have
Speaker 1: a ton of gear, great gear. I could go on
Speaker 1: and on. I'm a huge fan of the everyday vest.
Speaker 1: With it being that kind of springtime, you're starting to
Speaker 1: think about playing golf in the northern parts of the
Speaker 1: United States, this is a good time to get one piece. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I'm partial the Andy hoodie that's been a big hit.
Speaker 1: It is a from what I gather, they are having
Speaker 1: trouble keeping it in stock. But that is a awesome,
Speaker 1: awesome hoodie. Go check it out. If you use the
Speaker 1: promo code TFE thirty, that's TFE thirty, you get thirty
Speaker 1: percent off your order. For whatever reason, I think that's
Speaker 1: the promo code. For whatever reason, that doesn't work, you
Speaker 1: can use SGS thirty to both. Those are our codes.
Speaker 1: You get thirty percent off, which is which is a
Speaker 1: good chunk change hoodies, layers, sweaters, polos, shorts, pants. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be decked to the nines this week. I think
Speaker 1: they set up a little scripting for every day so
Speaker 1: b Dratty can take care of all of your clothing needs.
Speaker 1: Check it out at bdradty dot com and use that
Speaker 1: promo code tf E thirty thanks to b Draddy. Let's
Speaker 1: get to high mads, all right. I am joined by
Speaker 1: the great High Adas And I don't want to flatter you,
Speaker 1: but I was. We were talking last night on the
Speaker 1: phone and I was about to go on a walk
Speaker 1: with my wife and daughter. And my wife after I
Speaker 1: got off the call, was like he saw me beaming,
Speaker 1: and she's like, who's that, and I said, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just one of the cool things about the last
Speaker 1: few years. As I'm talking to the guy about doing
Speaker 1: a master's podcast, the guy that I grew up reading
Speaker 1: so many articles, Hi, May, It's always great to chat
Speaker 1: with you on this podcast, and I can I can
Speaker 1: say that you are, without a doubt one of the
Speaker 1: reasons that I'm doing what I'm doing so well. Thank
Speaker 1: you for all the years of work in the golf
Speaker 1: space and appealing to the demented golf nuts like myself.
Speaker 2: That is flattering. Andy, Thank you, And I got to
Speaker 2: compliment you guys on just taking golf journalism, golf coverage
Speaker 2: into a new direction. You know, a lot of old
Speaker 2: guys myself included, you know, bemoans some things that have passed,
Speaker 2: you know, the long form of stories and everything, but
Speaker 2: it's also been replaced by more detail and more i think,
Speaker 2: intensive everyday coverage than ever, and so it progresses. It's
Speaker 2: just been in a different form, a different format, and
Speaker 2: I'm proud to be on this format now because I'm
Speaker 2: definitely not, you know, easily acclimating to it, but guys
Speaker 2: like you make it very comfortable. So thank you.
Speaker 1: You know, I think like and this is what everybody
Speaker 1: wants at at the top of a master's previews golf
Speaker 1: media moment minute. But this is a golf media platform here,
Speaker 1: I think, like what would be ideal? And I wonder
Speaker 1: if the market will somehow bear this out in the
Speaker 1: coming years, is that there becomes a blend of old
Speaker 1: and new where like I just I always think about
Speaker 1: your piece about Jose Maria Olsapol, where you went to
Speaker 1: the town, you had no interview set up, Like you
Speaker 1: think about it now, like if you pitch this, they'd
Speaker 1: be like, well, if you have an interview set up
Speaker 1: with those Maria or whoever the player is, No, I don't,
Speaker 1: and you just hung out in the town for for weeks.
Speaker 2: Right, this is legendary now, I mean it's got it's
Speaker 2: grown beyond what it was. But no, well there was
Speaker 2: a function of you know, decadence and money because sports
Speaker 2: olisary had a lot of money in the in the
Speaker 2: mid nineties. They said go see what you can find
Speaker 2: and that that was not a unique kind of assignment
Speaker 2: for for people that they fed that and they had
Speaker 2: faith in their writers and I probably didn't deserve it
Speaker 2: as much as others and others turned it into classic
Speaker 2: stories sometimes. But I knew Jose Maria and I knew
Speaker 2: his agent, and I thought i'd find something. And I
Speaker 2: had done that with Golf Digest, just kind of showing
Speaker 2: up on sev with Sevy one day in Bedrena, and
Speaker 2: he was angry for a you know, about five seconds
Speaker 2: and then he was like, okay, you're here. What do
Speaker 2: you want? You know? And Maria had rheumatoid arthritis and
Speaker 2: he was hold up in his house and I went
Speaker 2: to the you know, to the gate where they had
Speaker 2: kind of what would you call it, not a microphone
Speaker 2: but uh uh and I can't think of the word
Speaker 2: right now. You know, just you push a button, you
Speaker 2: talk into the into the into the uh in the
Speaker 2: into the speaker and and he came to the phone,
Speaker 2: you know, and at that time I heard, you know,
Speaker 2: he really was having a hard time walking and it
Speaker 2: was very earnest and he said, you know, thank you
Speaker 2: for coming. But I promised the first interview to Die Davies,
Speaker 2: who was a British writer I think with The Guardian,
Speaker 2: might have been The Independent, I can't remember, but he
Speaker 2: was a you know, very much uh one of the ogs,
Speaker 2: so to speak. Over there and and Jose Maria is
Speaker 2: such an honorable guy that he wanted to respect that.
Speaker 2: So he talked me, talked to me a little bit.
Speaker 2: But uh then I talked to his his agent for
Speaker 2: a long time in a you know, in a nice
Speaker 2: kind of little restaurant for about five hours. So I
Speaker 2: got plenty of material, but it was, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of on a whim. Let's go go see what you
Speaker 2: can find, because he was a mystery man. And of
Speaker 2: course he did make the Ryder Cup in ninety seven,
Speaker 2: and uh that was you know, that was an incredible moment.
Speaker 2: Uh when when Seve introduced him after you know, he
Speaker 2: had looked like his career was over and everybody was
Speaker 2: crying and was a very Spanish moment.
Speaker 1: We're going to get to the Masters. But I got
Speaker 1: to ask this question while we're here. With one of
Speaker 1: my pods, the shotguns start. We do historical look backs,
Speaker 1: and you know, my immediate thing whenever I come across
Speaker 1: a player that I might want to want a profile
Speaker 1: in a historical look back, I will search their name
Speaker 1: and SI vault and the stable of writers I feel
Speaker 1: like in the eighties and nineties was just extraordinary. You know,
Speaker 1: you read some of this writing, and it's just it's
Speaker 1: out of, out of it's just absolutely incredible. Is there
Speaker 1: like a particular piece from the from the years you
Speaker 1: were there before you were there that stands out to
Speaker 1: you as like if you were, if you're a golf fan,
Speaker 1: you should you should look for this article and read
Speaker 1: this article. And it could be by I know you're
Speaker 1: you're too humble to anything of yours, so you know,
Speaker 1: I figure it'll be be somebody one of your colleagues.
Speaker 2: No, it definitely is not humility that those you know,
Speaker 2: I was a utility in Fieler there and oh god,
Speaker 2: you're oh no, well, I was very proud to be there.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it was just the best thing
Speaker 2: that ever happened to me. Uh to be hired there
Speaker 2: and have and have as many years as you know,
Speaker 2: fourteen years. But I go back to Gary Smith, who
Speaker 2: was you know, kind of he would write epics, you know,
Speaker 2: and he wrote a story on Tiger in ninety six
Speaker 2: before I guess it was a Sportsman of the Year
Speaker 2: story before he won the Masters, and and Gary was
Speaker 2: just so in depth and very psychologically driven. In fact,
Speaker 2: his wife was a psychiatrist or a psychologist, and he
Speaker 2: really came from that orientation and not in that kind of,
Speaker 2: you know, pretentious way. He just wanted to know about
Speaker 2: the human condition. And he would just you know, really
Speaker 2: intensively interview and I remember him talking about it once
Speaker 2: he goes, look, I know, I know the guy's got
Speaker 2: the answer I want. And it's not a made up answer.
Speaker 2: It's not I'm not going to be I'm not going
Speaker 2: to be, you know, manipulating him, but I'm going to
Speaker 2: ask him that question until he gives me that answer.
Speaker 2: And you know, he just kind of had extreme sort
Speaker 2: of methods. And even when he edited, he said, I
Speaker 2: just try to take you know, a final version, every
Speaker 2: unnecessary word out. It might be a seven thousand word piece.
Speaker 2: So I mean, he was that that, you know, uh,
Speaker 2: thorough and incredibly insightful. And I thought that piece it
Speaker 2: still holds up because he talked to Earl a lot.
Speaker 2: And and you sense the pressure that Tiger was under
Speaker 2: from his own dad, I mean, and not necessarily unwelcome
Speaker 2: in an unwelcome way, but his dad just had these
Speaker 2: visions of him far beyond golf, and so Tiger carried
Speaker 2: that grandeur sort of with him. And I think It's
Speaker 2: part of his greatness that he just was never satisfied
Speaker 2: with just you know, I won the Masters and my
Speaker 2: dream fulfilled. It was like, no, there's way way more.
Speaker 2: Always and he might have been just wired that way,
Speaker 2: but I think I think Gary got to the dynamic
Speaker 2: between he and Earl that drove him also. But Riley
Speaker 2: was amazing. Rick Riley. My first Masters was eighty six
Speaker 2: and his also and I'd never met Rick, and we
Speaker 2: stayed in the same house. And Rick's one of the
Speaker 2: most charismatic humor, very funny. Obviously writes funny, but he's
Speaker 2: also really funny in person. And he's just so curious
Speaker 2: and innovative in his mind. He makes these connections. He
Speaker 2: did not low a lot about golf at that time.
Speaker 2: I mean, he was not a total stranger to it,
Speaker 2: but he didn't know a lot about the history. There's
Speaker 2: a guy named Walt Bingham at the SI and he
Speaker 2: would take us on the lure tour of the Masters
Speaker 2: because he'd been coming to the Masters since the fifties.
Speaker 2: And Rick went on it, you know, and I remember,
Speaker 2: and he was learning all kinds of stuff that he
Speaker 2: didn't know. The point is, after Nicholas won It was
Speaker 2: just an immense the impact of that on the press room.
Speaker 2: It was like, guys were going around here, it's too big.
Speaker 2: I can't write, you know, it's just too perfect and
Speaker 2: the weight of it and the burden and the obligation
Speaker 2: is too great. And he had a friend named Buddy Martin,
Speaker 2: a friend he had been a former boss in Denver
Speaker 2: when Rick worked there before he went to the La
Speaker 2: Times and then he went to SI. And Buddy came
Speaker 2: up to him because he'd known Rick since he was
Speaker 2: like twenty one. He said, Rick, put your notes away,
Speaker 2: sit down, just write it, and then go back to
Speaker 2: your notes and fill it in. But write what you're feeling.
Speaker 2: Because he knew Rick, and he knew Rick had these
Speaker 2: amazing instincts and able to connect things in just these
Speaker 2: the ways that made him so famous and rightfully so.
Speaker 2: And Rick wrote just the greatest story. I thought game story,
Speaker 2: the best one almost ever to me. I guess maybe
Speaker 2: because I knew the conditions of it. But that's when
Speaker 2: you know. I was new, but i'd been into SI
Speaker 2: a couple of years, and I just said, man, I'm
Speaker 2: just so lucky to be here. These guys are so
Speaker 2: much better. But I can draft off of that and
Speaker 2: get better myself. And so I wasn't jealousy ever with Rick.
Speaker 2: I just thought, this guy is so gifted. And there
Speaker 2: were five or six guys like that, Risteve Rushing. I mean,
Speaker 2: you go on almost everybody, and it was a it
Speaker 2: was a great privilege.
Speaker 1: That's that's awesome. I love that, you know, you always
Speaker 1: when you have journalists on, they know the hits to play,
Speaker 1: and you pulled out ninety six Tiger eighty six Jack Nicholas.
Speaker 1: I'll throw one from my personal reading. I haven't read
Speaker 1: them all, but my favorite one that I've ever read
Speaker 1: was Garrity's piece. I think it was Garretty's piece on VJ. Singh.
Speaker 1: Yeah that was yes, where he told basically the story
Speaker 1: of VJ. Singh playing, you know, hitting balls under a
Speaker 1: mango tree next to an airport.
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, you know, go to Fiji, you.
Speaker 1: Know VJ Singh selling selling trophies of tournaments that hadn't
Speaker 1: been contested yet because he knew he was going to win.
Speaker 1: Like just incredible, incredible insight.
Speaker 2: I told John this when I used to get blocked,
Speaker 2: especially on Sunday night under pressure or Monday morning, even
Speaker 2: more pressure because the deadline was always Monday morning. I would, well,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't do it Monday morning, but I would do
Speaker 2: it Sunday when I was like, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 2: kind of freezing here, I would, And I carried two
Speaker 2: or three of them with me. But if I was home,
Speaker 2: I'd look at maybe three or three or four others
Speaker 2: stories by Garrity, and he just had there was a
Speaker 2: grace about him in his writing and a precision and
Speaker 2: flow it was it was, I don't know it would
Speaker 2: I could almost internalize it. And I knew John really well.
Speaker 2: We had a lot of nice talks. He was a
Speaker 2: mentor in many ways. I don't know if you know.
Speaker 2: Johnny's just such a gentleman and you know, so thoughtful
Speaker 2: but never overbearing, and you know, just reserved but brilliant
Speaker 2: and very very talented. He was great musician as well,
Speaker 2: and his words were like music. But anyway, they would
Speaker 2: get inside me somehow and it would free me up.
Speaker 2: And there's certain guys that you kind of you know,
Speaker 2: had a like I could never write like Rick or
Speaker 2: obviously Dan, Dan Jenkins or but certain guys I felt like,
Speaker 2: you know that I could aspire to this style at
Speaker 2: least and Garretty was that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm I'm not a natural writer. I'm very envious of.
Speaker 1: I'm so envious of when I see see the see
Speaker 1: the guys of the press room that just like they
Speaker 1: just put like that, put it, they put the computer
Speaker 1: up and they just go. And I'm like, I wish
Speaker 1: I could. I wish I could cook like that.
Speaker 2: Me too, me too. No, I mean I remember watching
Speaker 2: Jenkins writing just like eighty four. I just started s
Speaker 2: I and uh it was an Oregon of all places,
Speaker 2: at the Senior Open. I'm not mistaken. Yeah, well yes,
Speaker 2: and and uh he you know he was a veteran
Speaker 2: by that time obviously, but he just put the paper
Speaker 2: in and I think and there was a typewriter. It
Speaker 2: was a manual typewriter. And I think having to be
Speaker 2: organized so that you weren't correcting constantly and rewriting and
Speaker 2: erasing and you know, as we do on a computer,
Speaker 2: just made you a more disciplined thinker. You had to
Speaker 2: kind of have it formed in your head before you
Speaker 2: wrote it, otherwise you'd be wide outing all day or
Speaker 2: exing out all day. It was impossible. And Dan's copy
Speaker 2: was notably clean always, so he was writing in his
Speaker 2: head before he wrote it, which you know sometimes we
Speaker 2: play with words and the computer does that. But I
Speaker 2: think there was a level of concentration that that took
Speaker 2: that might have made those guys even better. And he
Speaker 2: was really fast, like John Finstein who just passed really fast,
Speaker 2: Alan Ship Knutt really fast. Rick was. Rick would labor,
Speaker 2: but he was always really fast as far as that
Speaker 2: first draft. And I am really slow, So I mean,
Speaker 2: I just know I don't have the gift. I just
Speaker 2: got a grind. And when you see that gift, it
Speaker 2: is something really uh it's it's close to genius in
Speaker 2: some cases. And I think it just shows a natural aptitude.
Speaker 2: When you talk about natural if you're fast, you know,
Speaker 2: it's really fast. Gary Van Sickle. In fact, he won
Speaker 2: typing contest. And I'm not just saying it's mindless just typing,
Speaker 2: but it's it helps if you can, if you can
Speaker 2: keep up with your thoughts with your typewriter or your
Speaker 2: you know obviously now the computer. I think that helps
Speaker 2: you flow. And I couldn't pass the typing test at
Speaker 2: the Oakland Tribune, literally and they had one in for
Speaker 2: hr and I was forty five words a minute. With
Speaker 2: six mistakes and I could not do it. It was
Speaker 2: like I needed the double eighteen that you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: I might have had four mistakes with you know, maybe
Speaker 2: two lines to go and I and I would I
Speaker 2: would choke.
Speaker 1: You know, you know what you were. You were the
Speaker 1: the golfer that would would would make a couple of
Speaker 1: mental mistakes out there, make a couple doubles, but always
Speaker 1: made a lot of birdies on here say you're too humble,
Speaker 1: all right, enough golf media stories of old here, No,
Speaker 1: this was that was great. We're going to talk about
Speaker 1: the eighty ninth playing and the Masters. We're going to
Speaker 1: do our traditional five things here. So I've got five things,
Speaker 1: You've got five things, and let's just bat it about.
Speaker 1: This is a just setting the table. Obviously, Scottie Scheffler
Speaker 1: is the defending champion, and the weather looks it's interesting
Speaker 1: early in the week, but it looks like a delightful
Speaker 1: weekend at the Masters where we're going to have really
Speaker 1: really nice weather from basically Tuesday on. It'll be chilly
Speaker 1: early in the week and then warming up to to
Speaker 1: a nice weekend at Augusta National if all holds, so
Speaker 1: Hi May it's been a while since we talked. What
Speaker 1: what's your first thing here about about this Masters that
Speaker 1: you're looking forward to?
Speaker 2: Oh, look, yeah, I think it's such an uncertain time
Speaker 2: in golf we've been going through for two or three
Speaker 2: years now, and and the Majors kind of unify things
Speaker 2: at least for uh, you know, a sense of temporary
Speaker 2: permanency because it is history, whatever's made it, whatever's done
Speaker 2: at the Majors, and uh, you know, the Masters has
Speaker 2: become more important I think as as the one that
Speaker 2: kind of you know, brings us back to a better
Speaker 2: time by being the first of the year. And I
Speaker 2: do sense that, you know, people really looking forward to
Speaker 2: it just for that, you know, in terms of the
Speaker 2: the you know, the old gathering and uh, you know,
Speaker 2: the same kind of scene and the same kind of
Speaker 2: importance on the win, and that hasn't been diminished, I
Speaker 2: don't think by live and by the fracture, but because
Speaker 2: a couple of live guys have won too or you know,
Speaker 2: certainly done well. So I'm looking forward to that because
Speaker 2: I think we all miss it. Uh. But I'm also
Speaker 2: looking forward to, you know, the battle and the greatness
Speaker 2: that I think belongs to the Scotti Scheffler. I think
Speaker 2: he's underrated in some ways, maybe because to some people
Speaker 2: he's not I won't say flamboyant, but he's he's not
Speaker 2: enough of an extrovert. I find him a very controlled
Speaker 2: thinker and a very controlled speaker and a very controlled golfer,
Speaker 2: and I think it's a strength. I mean, I think
Speaker 2: he's got a lot of thoughts, and I think he's
Speaker 2: a pretty amiable guy to his friends and and got
Speaker 2: a sense of humor. But in a public setting and
Speaker 2: when he's focused on golf, I don't think that he
Speaker 2: thinks it serves him well to just kind of let loose.
Speaker 2: And so I admire the discipline in the way he plays,
Speaker 2: how complete he is through the bag, his skill set,
Speaker 2: you know, how he deals with adversity, because the putter
Speaker 2: was a problem there for a little while, and you know,
Speaker 2: he kind of shut down every talk all to talk
Speaker 2: about it, which is difficult to do in a nice way.
Speaker 2: But I mean those questions were kind off limits for
Speaker 2: a while, and he just worked it out. And you know,
Speaker 2: you could say, well, he wasn't being cooperative, but I
Speaker 2: think he was just internalizing the solution and he found
Speaker 2: it on his own in a way that was not
Speaker 2: that disruptive, and in the meantime he continues to improve
Speaker 2: with the rest of his game. And I think when
Speaker 2: it's fast and firm as they are at majors, I
Speaker 2: think he's got the advantage because he has a wonderful
Speaker 2: short game and great touch to recover when he misses
Speaker 2: the green. But more than anything, he comes in so
Speaker 2: soft and with the right distance control on his irons.
Speaker 2: And you know these majors, especially the where they where
Speaker 2: they're put in the whole positions and the firmness of
Speaker 2: the green, you just got to be able to hit
Speaker 2: it in there soft and obviously work it both ways
Speaker 2: when he needs to. I think the cut obviously is
Speaker 2: his money shot. He plays a lot like Nicholas, and
Speaker 2: I think that is when you are probably the most
Speaker 2: gifted through the bag, that's the way to play conservatively
Speaker 2: and minimize mistakes and let the birdies come when they do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I you know, Scotty, it was my one a. Also,
Speaker 1: I think when you when you talk about Scotty and
Speaker 1: simplicity and being and boring is just the most admirable
Speaker 1: trait for golf. Yeah, you know that is there's a
Speaker 1: way to live life. And I always go back to
Speaker 1: like his warm up routine. He talked about this last
Speaker 1: year at the Masters, and like what they do, the
Speaker 1: simplicity of it, just like when you think about like
Speaker 1: I always I've said this before on this podcast, but
Speaker 1: I always I've always said, I think the hardest part
Speaker 1: about golf, just the simple hardest thing about golf that
Speaker 1: nobody really talks about. If you could just set up
Speaker 1: to the ball the exact same way every time, you
Speaker 1: would play such good golf. Like I'm convinced, especially for
Speaker 1: recreational golfers, like setups like the biggest issue because like
Speaker 1: you take a week off and you might set up
Speaker 1: when people talk about like, hey the swing doesn't feel
Speaker 1: the same as it did yesterday, it could be that
Speaker 1: you're like a three sixteenths of an inch further away
Speaker 1: from the golf ball. And that's the thing. And when
Speaker 1: I watched Scotty Scheffler warm up, it is just you know,
Speaker 1: he does his grip work. He has he has ted
Speaker 1: Scott looking at a swing plane and it's like he
Speaker 1: grips the club the same. He makes sure his swing
Speaker 1: plane is the same, and like from there, if you
Speaker 1: grip it well and your your swing's on plane. There
Speaker 1: isn't much that can go wrong. And I think when
Speaker 1: you look at his consistency, it's like, well, he fit,
Speaker 1: he got himself to a good spot, and now he
Speaker 1: just he operates under that good spot as much as
Speaker 1: he can. And I think, like, if you start to
Speaker 1: look at what you said underrated, he is on a historic,
Speaker 1: historic clip of major success where if you look at
Speaker 1: the greatest players in the game of golf, and you know,
Speaker 1: maybe not Tiger or Jack, but all the other greats,
Speaker 1: he is at a very similar clips. So he's played
Speaker 1: in twenty one majors, He's got twelve top tens, over
Speaker 1: fifty percent of the majors he's played in, he's finished
Speaker 1: in the top ten. He's got two wins, which are
Speaker 1: obviously he's had a ten percent win clip. Those are
Speaker 1: historic numbers if you throw in the players, if you
Speaker 1: if you associated a half major for each players, he's
Speaker 1: had three majors and you know twenty you know, so
Speaker 1: you start to like do the math on what he's doing,
Speaker 1: and it's extraordinarily impressive. You know. The one thing I think,
Speaker 1: like the putter isn't as much of an issue. But
Speaker 1: I think that's the still the bugaboo, and I just
Speaker 1: see I just see it flare up, and I think
Speaker 1: one of the things. And you know, if you ask
Speaker 1: him this question, you're not getting an answer. But I'm curious,
Speaker 1: like when the putter flares up, and we saw it
Speaker 1: flare up last year at the Open, We've seen it
Speaker 1: flare up early this year, Like what's going through their head,
Speaker 1: through his head, because it seems like he does not
Speaker 1: operate with doubt in any with any club in the bag.
Speaker 1: But I think when he gets those five footers, when
Speaker 1: he's not feeling great with the putter, that's where he
Speaker 1: has those those kind of bad thoughts that he's having
Speaker 1: trouble getting out of his head.
Speaker 2: I think there's more pressure on the putter when you're
Speaker 2: a really good ball striker, yes, because you have so
Speaker 2: many chances, and you know, especially if they're inside fifteen
Speaker 2: feet or in that area, you feel like you should
Speaker 2: make some of those and you know the percentages, it's
Speaker 2: kind of it's not random, but you know, if you
Speaker 2: make a third of them, that's really good. And when
Speaker 2: you're always and you see this with a lot of
Speaker 2: great ball strikers, I mean from Hogan on down, and
Speaker 2: Jack would suffer from this too. Sometimes you know, you
Speaker 2: just you're just two putting your way around all the time,
Speaker 2: and you see these guys you're playing with, you know,
Speaker 2: knocking in eight footash or par all day or whatever,
Speaker 2: or being more opportunistic seemingly, and it really takes patience.
Speaker 2: And and also you know, Scotty has been he's been
Speaker 2: there so many times with majors. He probably feels like
Speaker 2: he should have more. And so I think there's an
Speaker 2: impatience there. And you wonder about the window. You know,
Speaker 2: he's he's at his prime age right now, but how
Speaker 2: long does that window last? And I hope he just
Speaker 2: thinks of himself as a long term guy. I could
Speaker 2: see him winning into his you know, if he wants
Speaker 2: to keep playing at the same intensity he's He's an
Speaker 2: incredibly good athlete, I think. And I think the reason,
Speaker 2: you know, people, I think what they miss is when yes,
Speaker 2: footwork looks awkward, it's actually a really repetitive athletic act.
Speaker 2: You know that he's got incredible you know, club face
Speaker 2: awareness and and and feel for the way his body repeats.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so his legs move around, but you don't
Speaker 2: see him spraying it. So there's something there that I
Speaker 2: think we should appreciate as opposed to look at as
Speaker 2: a flaw. And I just think, you know, the nature
Speaker 2: of putting is, you know, the most random part of
Speaker 2: the game. You can hit great putts that don't go in.
Speaker 2: And I think when you're really great and really ambitious,
Speaker 2: it might be harder to put up with the misses.
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, everything about him would indicate
Speaker 2: he'd have the maturity to handle that. But I think
Speaker 2: especially could success came very quickly there for a moment,
Speaker 2: the pressure and the expectation increased, and I thought his
Speaker 2: putting issues, whatever they were, and you know they're at it.
Speaker 2: We're a little bit hard on him with the putter
Speaker 2: because he's got such a high standard in every other
Speaker 2: part that we look, Okay, that must be the weakness
Speaker 2: and it's really not. But I think, you know, it's
Speaker 2: his putter, his stroke, his his mechanics look great, and
Speaker 2: it's it's just a mental barrier at times, and I
Speaker 2: think he'll learn to handle it better as he goes along,
Speaker 2: and just you know, hope that the motivation and the
Speaker 2: and the intensity continues because that's I think that's the
Speaker 2: hardest part.
Speaker 1: To keep up, you know. I think when you talk
Speaker 1: about Scottie, one thing that doesn't get talked about enough.
Speaker 1: And I don't necessarily like that expression, but just when
Speaker 1: you listen to him talk about breaking down a golf course,
Speaker 1: when he when he gets a little nitty gritty on, like,
Speaker 1: you realize that he like the depth and the level
Speaker 1: that he's thinking about a golf course is so insanely high,
Speaker 1: Like he really knows how he's going to attack and
Speaker 1: what he's doing around a golf course. Something I heard
Speaker 1: an anecdote I heard this year at the Players was
Speaker 1: when they went to Bayhill, and you think about, like
Speaker 1: the modern tour player and the ideology of tour play
Speaker 1: right now is like just hit it as hard as
Speaker 1: you can and go find it. I heard at bay
Speaker 1: Hill he had like a very simple strategy. He was
Speaker 1: taking speed off. You never hear of guys taking He
Speaker 1: was taking speed off, prioritizing fairways at bay Hill, and
Speaker 1: if you look at it, he led the field in
Speaker 1: strokes gain off the tee that week. He hit a
Speaker 1: ton of fairways. He was teeing it down kind of
Speaker 1: hitting a cut, taking speed off the driver and then
Speaker 1: you like, look at you know, and he's hitting like,
Speaker 1: you know, high one sixties, low one seventies ball speed
Speaker 1: regularly there. Then you go to Houston and he's in contention,
Speaker 1: and obviously I don't think he had the results. He
Speaker 1: was frustrated with bay Hill because I think he drove
Speaker 1: it so well and did not score the way he
Speaker 1: wanted to. But you go to Houston and there he's
Speaker 1: hitting high one seventies with the driver, like you don't
Speaker 1: see guys fluctuate like that. But that's just him taking
Speaker 1: what the golf course gives you. And I think when
Speaker 1: you talk about Augusta National and players that have such
Speaker 1: success at Augusta National are the players that understand what
Speaker 1: the golf course is giving you and not pushing the
Speaker 1: pedal down in opportune moments. And I just think Scotty
Speaker 1: is so comfortable because of his short game. His short
Speaker 1: game is so good. He's so comfortable just dumping a
Speaker 1: ball out to a side that gives him green to
Speaker 1: work with, or an upslope to work with. He's so
Speaker 1: comfortable just throwing it over there, knowing he's going to
Speaker 1: hit a chip to eighteen inches like, I just like,
Speaker 1: I think it's amazing when you watch Scottie in an
Speaker 1: eighteen at Houston last week was a perfect example of this,
Speaker 1: where like he misses a green and it's just like,
Speaker 1: I think, like it almost is numbing how often he
Speaker 1: hits it to a foot eighteen inches from these chip
Speaker 1: shots that you look at and it's like, Okay, that's
Speaker 1: not the hardest chip in the world. But it's also
Speaker 1: like he's he's twenty yards away and it's just like,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's amazing how he just understands where to
Speaker 1: get the ball when he's when he's out of position,
Speaker 1: even if it's not obviously out of position.
Speaker 2: I think that's a Tiger influence in terms of having
Speaker 2: studied or just watched by osmosis, how Tiger played that
Speaker 2: Jack didn't quite have. So that was the evolution. Tiger
Speaker 2: had just about everything, if not everything, and the short
Speaker 2: game was crucial to that, and Scotty is in that
Speaker 2: in that same you know, I skill set almost through
Speaker 2: the bag. You know he's got the power. It's not
Speaker 2: it's not quite Jack power, not quite Tiger power, but
Speaker 2: the iron play and everything else is of the same caliber,
Speaker 2: and the chipping is where he sets himself apart from
Speaker 2: Jack and approaches Tiger. And to your earlier point about
Speaker 2: changing speeds, I think that is the that is an
Speaker 2: ultimate skill. When you're that comfortable that you're not making
Speaker 2: mechanized golf swings over and over with you know, pretty
Speaker 2: much full force, because that's what you practice and that's
Speaker 2: all you really have, or that's all you're comfortable with
Speaker 2: in competition. When you can change speeds, then you're playing
Speaker 2: old school, in my opinion, artistic golf, whether it's Snead
Speaker 2: or Hogan. You heard about that all the time from
Speaker 2: old timers who's talked about how they would take something off.
Speaker 2: They didn't know exact yardages all the time. I mean
Speaker 2: not to say they didn't know the yardage, but it
Speaker 2: was more about the shot they saw. And I think
Speaker 2: Scotty has that gear and you know, I love that
Speaker 2: he can hit a soft driver and he's not always
Speaker 2: just pounding threewood or now the mini driver. I mean,
Speaker 2: guys are so unable to change speeds. They got to
Speaker 2: get a shorter driver they can swing at the same speed.
Speaker 2: You know. To me, it's that's a little bit of
Speaker 2: the de skilling of the game slightly and doesn't mean
Speaker 2: they're not great at what they do, but since that
Speaker 2: technology is available, I think it's kind of an easy
Speaker 2: way out. And I think Rory's gotten better because he's
Speaker 2: learning how to change speeds. I think it's kind of
Speaker 2: a last frontier for a real great play.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think like if you want Rory, the way
Speaker 1: he drove it around Pinehurst last year was extraordinary. He
Speaker 1: had that low ball he I'll always think back. I
Speaker 1: think Taylor made did this video. I've referenced it on
Speaker 1: this podcast. It was a couple of years ago before
Speaker 1: the Open and they just had Scotty go through on
Speaker 1: the tee how he hits all of his driver and
Speaker 1: it's like he moves ball positions, he moves tea, he
Speaker 1: has different tea positions. He's like, this is my faaraway finder.
Speaker 1: Here's my kind of like stock driver. When I really
Speaker 1: want to go go at it, I do this and
Speaker 1: and it's like I think, I don't think like people
Speaker 1: think of Scotty necessarily as a golf artist, but like
Speaker 1: of all the modern players, I don't. I can't think
Speaker 1: of like a time where he's mentioned like, oh well,
Speaker 1: I was looking at my track man, and this is
Speaker 1: what what it told me. You know, like he I
Speaker 1: don't like, I don't associate him with the modern like
Speaker 1: obsessed with numbers. Like to me, like Scotty Shuffler in
Speaker 1: a way is like a polar opposite of Bryson to
Speaker 1: Shambeau and their approach to golf.
Speaker 2: He hit shots, you know, he hit shots, and it's
Speaker 2: fun to watch. And I if I have a bias
Speaker 2: towards what I'd like to see in the modern game.
Speaker 2: I like to see guys hitting more shots because I
Speaker 2: know they're capable. I just don't see as many of them.
Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean that they're not good, solid shots.
Speaker 2: They're hitting, but you don't sense they're fashioning a shot.
Speaker 2: You know, they're they're hitting a yardage and they're hitting
Speaker 2: the same shot and it's effective. But I think the
Speaker 2: majors ask a little bit more, and that's where I
Speaker 2: think you see guys like Scotty start to excel because
Speaker 2: they have more variety.
Speaker 1: I'm picking Scotty this week. I'm a little a little
Speaker 1: slightly worried about his like lead in I don't think
Speaker 1: like last week at Houston, I feel like was the
Speaker 1: first time that he had like a real chance to
Speaker 1: win a golf tournament even though he wasn't really a
Speaker 1: factor in the sense like on Saturday you were like, Okay,
Speaker 1: he's gonna win. Before Saturday's round, Scotty's gonna win, Like
Speaker 1: this is we've seen this before, but he didn't. And
Speaker 1: I think that's been the year. And I think like
Speaker 1: he's a little frustrated with the play this year. And
Speaker 1: obviously you know he had the hand injury. I don't
Speaker 1: think like I think he's a creature of habit and
Speaker 1: like it hasn't been talked about that much, but like
Speaker 1: his his habit, his habitual prep of a season got
Speaker 1: thrown off by the hand injury, and I think he's scrambling.
Speaker 1: But like at the end of the day, him at
Speaker 1: that golf course, I just like I would be shocked
Speaker 1: if he finished outside of the top five, Like shocked.
Speaker 2: I think that's a reasonable, uh projection. I do think
Speaker 2: three in a row is a big ask. And he's capable.
Speaker 2: I don't mean he's not. Uh. So that's the only
Speaker 2: thing that makes me not call him just the outright
Speaker 2: favorite uh. And it's got nothing to do with what
Speaker 2: he's capable of. I just think it's a mental burden
Speaker 2: and if he can just get into a vacuum and
Speaker 2: not and not make that the foremost thought, it helps him.
Speaker 2: But man, it'll be it'll be such a such an accomplishment,
Speaker 2: I mean talk about unprecedented. So uh, and I guess
Speaker 2: I'm biased towards rooting. I guess for history and a
Speaker 2: Rory win.
Speaker 1: Well, is that is that your co favorite? And is
Speaker 1: that your second thing?
Speaker 2: Sure? Yeah, I think it's both of ours. It's everybody
Speaker 2: say right now, yeah.
Speaker 1: I think you could. You could make one one a
Speaker 1: one one be but I think Scott at this tournament
Speaker 1: right now is about Scotty and Rory, and I think
Speaker 1: like it's pretty pretty easy to say that in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five, Rory McElroy has been by far the best
Speaker 1: player in the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, yes, Yeah, the players was really impressive
Speaker 2: because he didn't drive it that great, but he did
Speaker 2: all the other stuff that You've been hoping that he
Speaker 2: would develop more as he got older, and he has.
Speaker 2: And so seeing Rory improve as a golfer has been
Speaker 2: very satisfying because it's well overdue in my opinion. I mean,
Speaker 2: he's almost thirty six and I think he's just coming
Speaker 2: into his prime as a as a complete player. Now
Speaker 2: he may have had more explosiveness, and you can't argue
Speaker 2: against four majors before the age of twenty six. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, I like the way he plays
Speaker 2: more now. I like that he's got more control of
Speaker 2: his wedges and he's hitting them lower, and he's flighting them,
Speaker 2: and he's playing a softer ball, and he's thinking about,
Speaker 2: you know, those that scoring area that he used to
Speaker 2: give away so much. After driving at three sixty and
Speaker 2: then having you know, one hundred and ten yards and
Speaker 2: hitting it to thirty feet that seemed to be just
Speaker 2: too prevalent. And I think now he's more aware of
Speaker 2: getting it in the fairway and maybe it only goes
Speaker 2: three to ten or something, and then really focus on
Speaker 2: that second shot, because you know, in talking to I
Speaker 2: think people who've really studied the great player, someone like
Speaker 2: David Letterman. Letterman especially no Ledbetter, who's you know, just
Speaker 2: intimately familiar with developing great players and working with them.
Speaker 2: It's the iron game is the thing that ends up
Speaker 2: separating them the most, especially at the toughest courses, and
Speaker 2: Faldo is you know a prime example, Nick Price Prime example.
Speaker 2: You know he's worked with everybody obviously, and he just
Speaker 2: feels like, yeah, you can be so you know, just
Speaker 2: overwhelmed with the with the talent of someone with speed
Speaker 2: hitting an incredible driver, but the thing that ends up
Speaker 2: winning them tournaments is just getting it on the green,
Speaker 2: pin high, with chances, over and over, with few mistakes.
Speaker 2: And I think Jack played that way. I remember once
Speaker 2: talking Arnold Palmer, what was the best part of Jack's game?
Speaker 2: He goes, Oh, his irons, his middle irons, He never
Speaker 2: missed the green. He goes, he was so hard to
Speaker 2: play against. I mean Trevino. People talk about Travino being
Speaker 2: the greatest ball striker other than Hogan or with Hogan,
Speaker 2: and you know it drove it perfectly so often. But
Speaker 2: the irons, the irons were always pin high. Johnny Miller,
Speaker 2: these are the geniuses of I think you know the
Speaker 2: best way to play, which is you know, you just
Speaker 2: don't You don't let yourselves have to scramble a lot,
Speaker 2: and you have control of the golf ball and you
Speaker 2: know where it's going to land. And I think it
Speaker 2: started with Byron Nelson and Hogan. I'm sure every player
Speaker 2: has played that. Barden probably played that way, but I
Speaker 2: just think it becomes more evident when you start looking
Speaker 2: at the differences in the majors and it's the Iron
Speaker 2: guys and Rory's not been there. Norman was never quite
Speaker 2: there as good as he was with the Irons. It
Speaker 2: was it was a bit of a weakness and it
Speaker 2: cost him a lot and he won a lot of
Speaker 2: tournaments obviously, but it was hard in majors to capitalize
Speaker 2: because he would make the mistake and Rory's made the mistake.
Speaker 2: And I think he's just making fewer of him and
Speaker 2: it's it's made him more likely to do it.
Speaker 1: Finally, I think, you know something that gets a little
Speaker 1: glossed over also is the short game. How good the
Speaker 1: short game is for Ror? I mean you you watched
Speaker 1: that final round of of at Pinehurst number two and
Speaker 1: you see the up and downs that he made that
Speaker 1: kept that round going, that got him into the position
Speaker 1: to be ahead, and it was, you know, the short
Speaker 1: game was the thing that that got got him through that.
Speaker 1: And I think, like I think what's interesting about Rory.
Speaker 1: I think the maturation, as we talked about, like he
Speaker 1: has evolved as a player, and I think like one
Speaker 1: of the things as he's grown into his thirty I think,
Speaker 1: like with golf, everybody told him, like, you can overpower,
Speaker 1: you can manhandle a golf course, you can do this,
Speaker 1: and that was when you become focused on like that, Well,
Speaker 1: that's my game plan, that's what I have to do.
Speaker 1: I think, like what he's realized is like, I'm going
Speaker 1: to overpower a golf course, whether I try to or not,
Speaker 1: like that that's just going to happen. And what's changed
Speaker 1: is in the recent years where he's become this extraordinary
Speaker 1: US Open player where the golf is the hardest. What's
Speaker 1: changed over the years is he and especially I think
Speaker 1: this year when he talked about I want to play
Speaker 1: more like Scotti, is the realization that what he has
Speaker 1: to do is just avoid disasters because and I think
Speaker 1: at Augustin National he is going to run into birdies.
Speaker 1: I would find it hard hard for him to have
Speaker 1: a week where he doesn't doesn't make you know, seventeen
Speaker 1: birdies at Augusta National. And when you start to think
Speaker 1: about it, like if I make sixteen seventeen birdies on
Speaker 1: a low, like if I'm going to run into those birdies,
Speaker 1: then I've done enough to win the tournament if I
Speaker 1: limit my mistakes.
Speaker 2: Well said, yeah, I agree with that. You know, it's
Speaker 2: very fortiate. Just the last couple of days, I was
Speaker 2: on the West Coast and played pebble, which and you know,
Speaker 2: so I had to talk to a small group about
Speaker 2: pebble and its history. And you know, Tiger in two
Speaker 2: thousand there were three round shot with no bogies, and
Speaker 2: he shot two of them, including that last round, which
Speaker 2: it sort of made it his goal. Sometimes I think
Speaker 2: if Rory had a goal of no bogies and he
Speaker 2: forced him to back off slightly on certain shots, he
Speaker 2: would have won maybe a major or two more. And
Speaker 2: to your point about the short game, I think about
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two at San Andrews, where he had so many,
Speaker 2: you know, seems like sixty seventy thirty one hundred and
Speaker 2: five yard second shots because of the nature of the
Speaker 2: golf course there and never got it close and it showed.
Speaker 2: And Cameron Smith, who you know, doesn't have Rory's long game,
Speaker 2: but he's got incredible hands in a wonderful short game,
Speaker 2: obviously great with the wedges, and that made a huge difference.
Speaker 2: He made a bunch of putts too, but he was
Speaker 2: in position to make him because he had that finesse
Speaker 2: and that variety with his wedges and so yes, Rory
Speaker 2: I think learned, whether he's verbalized it about that specific tournament,
Speaker 2: that he had to improve those that area. And it'd
Speaker 2: been a while where he you know, he was kind
Speaker 2: of mistake prone with I used to call it soft bogies.
Speaker 2: You know, he'd miss a green by four feet and
Speaker 2: he'd have a thirty foot thirty foot chip and leave
Speaker 2: it six feet short or something to miss it, and
Speaker 2: that those are maddening kind of bogies, especially for a
Speaker 2: great player. He just you know, Tiger didn't make those
Speaker 2: kind of bogies. And and so you know, whereas he's
Speaker 2: he's learned to play more like Scotty, which is great,
Speaker 2: that's also more Tiger like. And I think Tiger really
Speaker 2: took pride in par putts and saving pars almost more
Speaker 2: than he did birdies. And the birdies came as he
Speaker 2: run into him. I just said, he couldn't help, but
Speaker 2: he was too good. And just like Wordy's too good,
Speaker 2: He's going to run the bog birdies, but stay away
Speaker 2: from the bogies, like Travino would say, you know, keep
Speaker 2: your birdies and and word to make it hard on
Speaker 2: himself with soft bogies. And I think, you know, it's
Speaker 2: it's it's only natural that he would he would pick
Speaker 2: up on that. Uh and and and I thought the
Speaker 2: players was a great indicator that he even the par
Speaker 2: on eight on the seventy second hole. That was huge.
Speaker 2: You know, it was a kind of a it was
Speaker 2: a rough par It was a grinded out part. He
Speaker 2: had to make that four footer. I'm glad that went
Speaker 2: in because that would have been devastating, but he did it.
Speaker 2: And I think that's something that he can carry into
Speaker 2: the Masters.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I I think that putt on the seventy second
Speaker 1: hole was extraordinarily huge for his psyche, whether you know,
Speaker 1: like and you saw it right away on the first
Speaker 1: hole of the playoff he had a similar putt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that was that was as good as good of
Speaker 1: a putt as you could hit there, like the pace,
Speaker 1: the way it went into the hole. It was a
Speaker 1: perfect putt. And it almost feels like that was like
Speaker 1: a barrier to pass since the since Pinehurst.
Speaker 2: And quickly to say also very quickly you know, making
Speaker 2: that putt, I think it it on seventy second hole,
Speaker 2: and even though he had a wait and sign the
Speaker 2: scorecard and everything, that drive on the first playoff hole
Speaker 2: was you know, insane, and I just I think he
Speaker 2: was just completely liberated because he felt so good about
Speaker 2: himself and he just let it go. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He he's at LACC at Pinehurst. I feel like when
Speaker 1: he's in contention that first T shot, where most people
Speaker 1: have a lot of nerves, he has been extraordinarily good
Speaker 1: in those, like those first T shot, setting the tone
Speaker 1: and getting into a round. In the recent years, I
Speaker 1: think like what you said about the wedges is so
Speaker 1: spot on with with with Saint Andrews, and then you
Speaker 1: could extend it to l a CC. You know, what
Speaker 1: got him in trouble in the final round the you
Speaker 1: know the probably the faithful shot was a wedge where
Speaker 1: he particularly had to take the speed off. And I
Speaker 1: think like this year it seems like with the ball
Speaker 1: switch and everything, the wedges are at a level that
Speaker 1: they haven't been And I think that's you know, if
Speaker 1: you're if you're making a case for for Rory McElroy,
Speaker 1: I think this is this is the best I think,
Speaker 1: you know, we talked a little bit at the at
Speaker 1: the very top. You touched on athletes that just like
Speaker 1: and you said it with with the Tiger piece. The
Speaker 1: essence of getting that Tiger piece in ninety six was
Speaker 1: getting that like this wasn't isn't over after the first math.
Speaker 1: Rory mclroy's a rare one when you look at look
Speaker 1: at the Lebrons, the tom Brady's, the you know, Tiger Woods,
Speaker 1: these athletes that that have like desire, like Rory mc
Speaker 1: roy's won so much money. He's in this era where
Speaker 1: careers are not long and it takes a lot of
Speaker 1: effort to stay at the top of the game. And
Speaker 1: anybody that disagrees with this just look at Dustin Johnson,
Speaker 1: like you see, like these guys aren't so talented that
Speaker 1: they just wake up in their top ten players in
Speaker 1: the world. You it takes effort and continual focus and
Speaker 1: at the core when once you've crossed the money threshold
Speaker 1: of having more money than you ever imagined, once you've
Speaker 1: crossed that, like at the end of the day, what
Speaker 1: drives you is is competitive fire and wanting to be
Speaker 1: one of the greatest of all time. And I think,
Speaker 1: like I think like that's one of the things with
Speaker 1: Rory is like at you know, he clearly wants to
Speaker 1: be one of the greatest. And I think he's obviously
Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer. He's one of the best of
Speaker 1: the generation, if not the best of the generation. And
Speaker 1: I think, like Brooks having five majors, is he wants
Speaker 1: to have more majors than anybody in the generation has.
Speaker 2: I'm glad to hear you know that articulated. I think
Speaker 2: it's hard to, you know, rewire yourself. I don't think
Speaker 2: Rory's quite wired like Tiger or Tom Brady or Lebron maybe,
Speaker 2: or I would say more Jordan than Lebron. Lebron to
Speaker 2: me is I mean, let mean I talk basketball, he's amazing.
Speaker 2: He's not as intense to me and as and as
Speaker 2: just you know, nails under pressure as Jordan was. And
Speaker 2: I'd say the same about Rory and Tiger, not that
Speaker 2: there's a direct comparison. I mean, some people think Lebron's
Speaker 2: the greatest player ever, and I don't think anybody thinks
Speaker 2: Rory's better than Tiger. But I think, you know, I
Speaker 2: think Rory has gained appreciate for his gift. It's so enduring,
Speaker 2: He's so gifted physically, why not make the most of it,
Speaker 2: and yeah, you've left some, you left some, let some go,
Speaker 2: but you also got an incredible start and maybe you
Speaker 2: can bookend this career now with a great ending. And
Speaker 2: I think you know, he's playing for the love of
Speaker 2: the game. You know, you talk to sports psychologists and
Speaker 2: it's it's almost the most important question. Why do you play?
Speaker 2: You know, And it is for money, and it is
Speaker 2: which is fine, you know, that's that's a motivator for
Speaker 2: a while, but it's not enduring. But if you play
Speaker 2: for just the inique, you know, intrinsic joy of it,
Speaker 2: that's what keeps you going in a way that's more
Speaker 2: meaningful as you get older. And I think he might
Speaker 2: be in that sweet spot right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he's. It's I think he's becoming It's
Speaker 1: so rare to see someone in this era just become
Speaker 1: more and more complete when they had the early success.
Speaker 1: Like I think you see guys like Russell Henley and
Speaker 1: you could say, oh, Russell Henley is the best he's
Speaker 1: ever been into his mid thirties and you see that,
Speaker 1: but rarely is it like he has amazing success. There's
Speaker 1: a period of years where he's still having a lot
Speaker 1: of success, but maybe it's not at that level that
Speaker 1: we we thought it was going to be. And now
Speaker 1: he seems to ascend it to a different level. And
Speaker 1: I yeah, I'm I'm fascinating. You know. I hope for
Speaker 1: him he gets this thing done. And you know, I
Speaker 1: think that that would be the best story. Is this
Speaker 1: guy that everybody said was was tailor made to take
Speaker 1: down Augusta National, has banged his head against the wall
Speaker 1: for so many years and finally gets it done. I
Speaker 1: think it is, Uh, it is probably you know, the
Speaker 1: best possible story coming out of this Master.
Speaker 2: Top top five all time Master story. I think you
Speaker 2: would make the top five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, eighty six Jack in twenty nineteen, Tiger are artist,
Speaker 1: extraordinary masters? What's next on your list?
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, let's see.
Speaker 1: You know, he got through the behemoths.
Speaker 2: Here we talk about Ram and you know, Deshambo and
Speaker 2: the live guys. It's just intriguing. It's fascinating what I
Speaker 2: have these guys retained what they had or has it
Speaker 2: been eroded? Do they have even more because they got,
Speaker 2: you know, something to prove. I think Bryson's in a way,
Speaker 2: you know, he's still on the high from the US Open,
Speaker 2: and he might be feeling really good about himself. And
Speaker 2: he I think was T six last year. I mean,
Speaker 2: he's very capable at Augusta. I don't buy that, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: he doesn't have the classic Augusta game because he's not
Speaker 2: really a touch guy. Having said that, what was outstanding
Speaker 2: at Pinehurst I think his his his scrambling, at his
Speaker 2: ability to recover, and obviously on the seventy second hole,
Speaker 2: but you know a lot of shots from kind of
Speaker 2: the hard pan there in the natural areas were just
Speaker 2: pinched beautifully and he's gotten better. He got better at that.
Speaker 2: I believe in Bryson's work ethic and how he focuses
Speaker 2: on a weakness and makes it better and maybe even
Speaker 2: a strength. And so I don't think he's you know,
Speaker 2: trapped by his style of player, by his you know,
Speaker 2: approach to the game. I think it's flexible and I
Speaker 2: think we've seen him get more accurate and slightly shorter
Speaker 2: with the driver and focus more on his control and
Speaker 2: excellent putter. Gotta say, you know, we don't see him
Speaker 2: that much. Obviously he's playing it live. But he shot
Speaker 2: his fifty eight. But you wonder week the week whether
Speaker 2: it can possibly mean enough to really bring out your best.
Speaker 2: But these majors now are so vital to their credibility
Speaker 2: as players. It's one of their few shots. And Ram's
Speaker 2: a different case. You know. I don't think Rom has
Speaker 2: you know, fulfilled himself in the way he would have
Speaker 2: liked to in these intervening years since signing with Live
Speaker 2: or interviewing. A couple of years as all it is,
Speaker 2: but it seems like a long time because he's been missed,
Speaker 2: and I have no doubt he's still got the same ability.
Speaker 2: But does he have the mental state that's going to
Speaker 2: bring out his best or is he going to be
Speaker 2: you know, trying too hard, pushing and pressing because he's
Speaker 2: got so much to prove. Will he be impatient because
Speaker 2: he's been discouraged and angry about maybe no merger? You
Speaker 2: know who knows those are He'll never probably even be
Speaker 2: able to answer those questions unless there's time that kind
Speaker 2: of gives him the perspective to But I sense that
Speaker 2: it's not optimal where he is, and I think that
Speaker 2: was the risk and in a way the price he
Speaker 2: paid for taking taking the money. You know, he may
Speaker 2: have forfeited his best years to achieve greatness, historical greatness,
Speaker 2: and now he might be impatient to try to make
Speaker 2: up for that.
Speaker 1: I think, like, I think he's someone that gets really
Speaker 1: frustrated when someone when he doesn't get the recognition he needs.
Speaker 1: Rob I think if you look at the analytics, they
Speaker 1: say he's still in the top end of golf, but
Speaker 1: the fact that he hasn't won it a high clip
Speaker 1: there and that people say, well, you haven't won it
Speaker 1: a high clip, he's extraordinarily frustrated. Does that make me
Speaker 1: think that he shouldn't be absolutely a top five favorite
Speaker 1: this week? No? And I think I think rom is
Speaker 1: a fascinating story. I would extend the live conversation to Brooks,
Speaker 1: Cameron Smith, and Joaquin Neeman as well. I think that
Speaker 1: you know Brooks Is, Brooks has gone from this player
Speaker 1: that was a like, well, like it's a major Brooks
Speaker 1: Brooks is there, like he is like, how do you
Speaker 1: not say he's the favorite or you know, in the
Speaker 1: top three. So we've moved into this phase with Brooks
Speaker 1: where it's like, well he could win, he could also
Speaker 1: finish forty second, and you know it's like we really
Speaker 1: it's really kind of like a box of chocolates type
Speaker 1: situation with Brooks Koepka, like, would you if he won
Speaker 1: next week, would you be surprised?
Speaker 2: I would be. But I was surprised when he won
Speaker 2: the PGA, you know, because first of all, it looked
Speaker 2: like his career was really threatened. It might even in
Speaker 2: his mind been very close to over and probably motivated
Speaker 2: him to sign would live and then to see him
Speaker 2: recover physically enough to win another major and then you know,
Speaker 2: still be still have the firepower in his game is
Speaker 2: an eye opener. But I don't know. I just feel
Speaker 2: like this has been a deadening period for those guys,
Speaker 2: and it's hard to turn it on and off motivation wise,
Speaker 2: or at least I won't say motivation. They may be
Speaker 2: very motivated in terms of really missing being at the
Speaker 2: top of the game or considered the top of the game,
Speaker 2: but it takes, you know, kind of a disciplined routine
Speaker 2: to stay mentally focused, and once you slack off on that,
Speaker 2: it just like golf. It's just like the physical part
Speaker 2: of golf, you develop bad mental habits. And I don't
Speaker 2: know that he has. I'm not saying that, I'm only
Speaker 2: saying I think it's an extra layer of difficulty when
Speaker 2: you have to try to, you know, turn the faucet
Speaker 2: on and off, whereas you know someone like Scotty or Rory.
Speaker 2: It's a more consistent approach of mental intensity and not
Speaker 2: taking your foot off the gas because you're gonna get
Speaker 2: you know, you're gonna get passed, you're gonna get boat raced.
Speaker 2: If you're not sharp mentally out on the PGA Tour,
Speaker 2: you may not win. And I'm not saying they're optimal
Speaker 2: every week, but they're closer to it. And so that's
Speaker 2: and Brooks has been I think, you know, almost unique
Speaker 2: in that he's got five majors and yet you never
Speaker 2: thought of him as a week to week guy, as
Speaker 2: a favorite, you know, on the PGA Tour. You always thought, well,
Speaker 2: he's saved him for the majors and he could do that,
Speaker 2: and so maybe he still can. But I I don't know.
Speaker 2: I've always been so impressed with Brooks when he's won,
Speaker 2: because he's so together, through the through the bag, excellent putter,
Speaker 2: great chipper. You look at him, you know, he looks
Speaker 2: like a power guy, but he's really a touch guy too.
Speaker 2: But he's also a guy who has I think a
Speaker 2: challenge caring enough, carrying enough to really make it important.
Speaker 2: Obviously the Major's brought that out, will they still? I
Speaker 2: think there's doubt that's all.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I And I think that something that doesn't get
Speaker 1: talked about a little bit is like what is brooks Kepka?
Speaker 1: What would he be if he was playing every week
Speaker 1: on the PGA Tour right now? And I think like
Speaker 1: something that doesn't get talked about is like if if
Speaker 1: you went on the range five or five or six
Speaker 1: years ago, they seven years ago, and watched brooks Kopka,
Speaker 1: you would be in awe of him hitting a driver.
Speaker 1: And I think the way the game has changed and
Speaker 1: physically for him, you know, he's had physical issues that
Speaker 1: he's had to overcome. I think if you go on
Speaker 1: the range and watch him hit a driver right now,
Speaker 1: it's not You're not like, oh Wow, this guy is
Speaker 1: like a completely different tier than these other guys. Like
Speaker 1: part of it is that the youth there are more
Speaker 1: people that drive the ball like brooks Kopka, And part
Speaker 1: of it is like where a player like Rory who
Speaker 1: was you know that has been that way his whole
Speaker 1: career has continued to send Brooks has kind of stayed
Speaker 1: the same. And I think when when you talk about
Speaker 1: and this has happened, I think this has been like
Speaker 1: kind of the story of Ricky Fowler, it's been the
Speaker 1: story of Justin Thomas, is that if you don't keep
Speaker 1: improving that great skill, these young players are going to
Speaker 1: come in and push that great skill down. And I think, like,
Speaker 1: if you look at from just strictly a skill standpoint,
Speaker 1: Brooks Kepka isn't as overwhelming of a player as he
Speaker 1: used to be because that off the t game has
Speaker 1: maybe gone from he's a top ten player with that
Speaker 1: drive everyone is cooking, to he's a top twenty five player.
Speaker 1: And that's a big fall like that, that's going from
Speaker 1: like I'm an ultra elite player to a a very
Speaker 1: good player, and that's in golf where the margins are
Speaker 1: so small, especially in major championships, that's a big deal.
Speaker 1: I remember watching him, Rory and Gordon Sargent play a
Speaker 1: practice round years ago and I was in awe of
Speaker 1: where and I think Brooks at that point was physically
Speaker 1: not in a good spot. But I'm looking at him like, God,
Speaker 1: he's forty yards behind these guys, you know, and that's
Speaker 1: not you know that that's something to be noted, you know.
Speaker 1: On the Cameron Smith aspect, I just I just wonder,
Speaker 1: you know, we this is the thing with liv and
Speaker 1: we just talked about with Rom, like, I just wonder
Speaker 1: what Live makes guys. This is the perfect golf course
Speaker 1: for Cameron Smith. He's he's been okay in majors, Like
Speaker 1: we haven't seen him at that twenty twenty two level,
Speaker 1: but that you know, getting to a point where it's
Speaker 1: a long time ago now and and I'm just curious,
Speaker 1: like what what it is we'll get from him. He's
Speaker 1: one of my favorite players to watch when he's in
Speaker 1: the mix, and that's been you know, one of the
Speaker 1: one of the departures I've been most sad about because
Speaker 1: I just enjoyed watching him play golf against the best
Speaker 1: players in the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really I love guys with Cameron Smith's skill set.
Speaker 2: I love great wedge players, great finesse, and and that's
Speaker 2: the art of the game in many ways. And but
Speaker 2: I do kind of equate him, and I don't think
Speaker 2: it's a coincidence with Patrick Reid, who maybe even had
Speaker 2: a better short game than than Cameron, and they both
Speaker 2: you know, declined and again and they're very different people.
Speaker 2: And I always thought of Patrick Reid as extremely hungry
Speaker 2: and extremely competitive, but he seems satisfied. I mean, he's
Speaker 2: really dropped off. Cameron Smith would gave us kind of
Speaker 2: intoation years ago when they I don't know it was
Speaker 2: an interview from Australian journalist or not, but he talked about,
Speaker 2: you knows, he hoped to, you know, win some championships maybe,
Speaker 2: but really what he wanted to do is sit back
Speaker 2: and open a coffee shop in Melbourne or Sydney or somewhere,
Speaker 2: you know. And I don't know that's I don't think
Speaker 2: you ignore that kind of comment, especially look at someone
Speaker 2: like DJ so talented. I mean, DJ was the best
Speaker 2: number one as far as you know, sustained excellence after Tiger,
Speaker 2: and now DJ looks like he's semi retired.
Speaker 1: DJ will never get the credit he's deserved of the
Speaker 1: twelve year run that he had no.
Speaker 2: Real fine with it than him. Yeah, and that's I
Speaker 2: think the secret to him. You know, I don't think
Speaker 2: he's got any regrets, you know, greatness and all that
Speaker 2: historical It just maybe it will when he's sixty years old.
Speaker 2: But at the moment, I don't think it moves him
Speaker 2: very much. So he's the kind of guy that you know,
Speaker 2: made the right call for himself, probably strictly from you know,
Speaker 2: economic factors, so you know, you know, we're talking about
Speaker 2: these guys. There is an edge. There is an edge
Speaker 2: you need. Tiger kept it for a long time. I'm
Speaker 2: sure it takes a toll on you as far as
Speaker 2: the stress level of your life. And and maybe you're
Speaker 2: you know, you're the balance in your life. But the
Speaker 2: really great ones and Jack was maybe the model he
Speaker 2: somehow kept to all accounts, you know, a very balanced
Speaker 2: life while still being the greatest player. But in general
Speaker 2: it's hard to have both. And those guys now have
Speaker 2: probably a more balanced life and fun life off the course,
Speaker 2: but it does sacrifice the edge that you need to
Speaker 2: win championships.
Speaker 1: I think I completely agree, and I think it's under
Speaker 1: talked about in terms of golfers. Is and and Live
Speaker 1: was this this whether no matter what you say about
Speaker 1: the if you're Live fan, if you're if you like
Speaker 1: the formatting, Live was a change. And I think, like
Speaker 1: when you talk about golfers, golfers, in order to be great,
Speaker 1: you have to inherently be very selfish and if you
Speaker 1: think about like things that are can potentially, you know,
Speaker 1: derail you being great players like life changes and live
Speaker 1: presented a life change for all these guys. I think
Speaker 1: it's made Bryson better. I think that that format is
Speaker 1: better for Bryson than the week in, week out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it gives them like time to do other things like
Speaker 1: and and I think that and it gives them time
Speaker 1: away from like the media, constant media scrutiny. But you know,
Speaker 1: you think about like other things that can do this
Speaker 1: as like kids, you know, partners. It is a it's
Speaker 1: not like golf. Golf is just a It's one of
Speaker 1: those things where you have to mentally be in the
Speaker 1: right place to play at an extremely high level. And
Speaker 1: different different factors in life can cause you to feel
Speaker 1: different ways, and whether or not you notice it can
Speaker 1: greatly impact your performance and take a player from being
Speaker 1: one of the best in the world to being a
Speaker 1: you know, still a great player, but not at that
Speaker 1: same level. You know that. And and the margins are
Speaker 1: so small that it's it's it's crazy. So we're three
Speaker 1: for three on the same topics here, we got to
Speaker 1: break apart here, what is your what is your next topic.
Speaker 2: Oh, we got to break apart. Well, you know we're
Speaker 2: talking I guess maybe underdogs or dark horses or you know, surprise,
Speaker 2: but you might agree with this guy. But ox Shay,
Speaker 2: but Tia was so impressive at the Players, and I
Speaker 2: know you're a fan, so actually I don't mean to,
Speaker 2: you know, have another one when with the same. But
Speaker 2: I'm kind of a new convert because I didn't actually
Speaker 2: have I've never really watched him really carefully, and the
Speaker 2: and the Players coverage was so good, and the way
Speaker 2: he played coming down the stretch was he made mistakes.
Speaker 2: It was a young player's mistakes, but man, was he
Speaker 2: striping it and aggressive and fearless and all these things
Speaker 2: you hear about young players. I never really always believe
Speaker 2: fearless because I think you know that golf course especially,
Speaker 2: and yet it looked like a guy who, you know,
Speaker 2: all he wanted to do was win, which for a
Speaker 2: young player, and in that setting with all that money
Speaker 2: available for second, third, fourth place, I was impressed. But
Speaker 2: also you know, he's only played in one Masters and
Speaker 2: you know his T thirty five, which is decent, but
Speaker 2: he's a lefty, which I think the course does help,
Speaker 2: especially on the dog Lake lefts with the with the
Speaker 2: power cut and everything, and you know, I'm impressed. I
Speaker 2: think he's on the rise here, even though what is he?
Speaker 2: Is he twenty one?
Speaker 1: Still twenty three?
Speaker 2: Twenty three now? And yes, excuse me, you said that
Speaker 2: yesterday when we were talking. So anyway, I don't know
Speaker 2: if you have someone that he's I think he's a surprise,
Speaker 2: or just talk about him.
Speaker 1: I think he's a fascinating player to watch. I think
Speaker 1: there's so much shine on Ludwig, and deservingly so, Like
Speaker 1: Ludwig's great. I always think golf misses the boat a
Speaker 1: little bit on age. This is like the It's like
Speaker 1: the number one thing when you look at how NFL
Speaker 1: and NBA play executives scout age. Do they do it
Speaker 1: down to like the month? You'll see nineteen point one?
Speaker 1: Okhay's twenty three, Ludwig's twenty five, both you know both roughly,
Speaker 1: you know, it's about exactly two years apart, like month wise,
Speaker 1: and I think like, Ohay has had a very interesting path,
Speaker 1: uh not going to school and taking some lumps early on,
Speaker 1: and you look at it and it's like, well like
Speaker 1: at this point in Okhay is And if Ludwig at
Speaker 1: the same point was in college golf, this at this
Speaker 1: point of Okhay's age and like Ludwig would have been
Speaker 1: a senior at Texas Tech. And you think of all
Speaker 1: the things that that Akhay's accomplished, and he doesn't have
Speaker 1: the raw power, uh that Ludwig has, And I think
Speaker 1: that's like obviously the big you know, you know, advantage
Speaker 1: that you'd point to with with Ludwig. But when you
Speaker 1: look at Okhay's just over overall game, it is extraordinarily impressive.
Speaker 1: And I think, like I was looking, I did a
Speaker 1: Breakout Players for twenty twenty five podcast last year and
Speaker 1: I put Ochay on it because you look at it
Speaker 1: when he went to the broom it it solved his
Speaker 1: one big death it as a player, which was the putter.
Speaker 1: He was very bad with the putter and that was
Speaker 1: holding him back. But what took a step back, and
Speaker 1: it makes sense, like you put all this time into
Speaker 1: putting and the broom putter is you know, you're putting
Speaker 1: all this time, it's natural you'd expect something maybe takes
Speaker 1: a step back because of the intense focus. And the
Speaker 1: thing that took a step back was his driver, and
Speaker 1: I look, you're looking at these numbers and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: like maybe he just had a really bad year driving
Speaker 1: the ball. And you see this with like you know
Speaker 1: basketball players where like they have one year where they
Speaker 1: are three point percentage dips to thirty percent, but their
Speaker 1: entire career they've been a thirty eight percent three pointer shooter.
Speaker 1: And you're, well, it's not like a crazy bet that
Speaker 1: this guy's going to go back to thirty eight percent.
Speaker 1: And it was just a bad year. And I think
Speaker 1: when you start to look at the numbers, it's like,
Speaker 1: actually had this incredible it had a great year last year,
Speaker 1: and he didn't drive the ball well. And it's like,
Speaker 1: and you saw that with Sawgrass is I mean the
Speaker 1: iron play you us talked about. This iron play is
Speaker 1: what you know is so important at major championships. I
Speaker 1: don't think anybody hit the ball better than him on the.
Speaker 2: Way he did on Sunday. He was the closest and
Speaker 2: the sound even through the television was impressive. It was
Speaker 2: really aggressive, great compression of the ball.
Speaker 1: And do you think about Saturday as like young player
Speaker 1: in a situation he's never been in before, and the
Speaker 1: wheels came off. It was so impressive that it wasn't
Speaker 1: an eighty that he put up that you've battled back,
Speaker 1: and then it's like, well he could still win on Sunday.
Speaker 1: I just think that that those are the experiences. Golf
Speaker 1: is such a game where you you know, it's so
Speaker 1: rare that you just get in the moment and succeed.
Speaker 1: It's so rare, and I think that's like we've watched
Speaker 1: these superstars and these all time greats come up and
Speaker 1: they you know, they seem to just get it done,
Speaker 1: like Tiger in the ninety seven Masters, where it's just like,
Speaker 1: well he's here, you know, yeah, But like so often
Speaker 1: is the moment where you get into the cauldron and
Speaker 1: you get uncomfortable, and like for Akhay, he comes out
Speaker 1: of the gates blazing and he misses that short put
Speaker 1: on two and it just seemed to like rattle him
Speaker 1: and it set him and that that's why he didn't
Speaker 1: win the Players. You know, he missed the short put
Speaker 1: on two. I think he bogied three, and then on
Speaker 1: five he makes that triple or whatever he made on five,
Speaker 1: Like you know, you see this like three hole stretch.
Speaker 1: That just is the reason he didn't win the tournament,
Speaker 1: and you just think about that, is like he is
Speaker 1: a better player because of that, especially because it because
Speaker 1: of the way he came out of it and played
Speaker 1: fantastic golf for the final twenty, you know, thirty holes
Speaker 1: of the tournament versus what could have happened where he
Speaker 1: got into it and it goes and he shoots an eighty,
Speaker 1: and then there's real doubt.
Speaker 2: That's well said. As you are, you've watched more carefully
Speaker 2: and explained his gifts very well. I don't want to
Speaker 2: short change Oberg. He's really really impressive. I mean, just
Speaker 2: the ease with which he plays and produces power and
Speaker 2: his game is so uncluttered and the way he gets
Speaker 2: over the ball and just lets it go, and man,
Speaker 2: he looks like he's made it simple, and I'm sure
Speaker 2: it isn't. Uh, you know, it's almost counterintuitive, but it
Speaker 2: almost works against him in my in my sense of
Speaker 2: him totally unfairly that maybe he just doesn't have that
Speaker 2: that edge we've been talking about that you know, it's
Speaker 2: almost too easy. And then that's so dumb, I mean
Speaker 2: in a way, because I mean in his second the
Speaker 2: Masters and he's won and he played great at Tory
Speaker 2: was beautiful to watch, but you know, will he really
Speaker 2: step on the gas and go for something special or
Speaker 2: will he, you know, just have this very, very elevated
Speaker 2: career that won't have as many highlights as it seems
Speaker 2: that he's capable of. And it's way early to even
Speaker 2: speculate on that. I just, you know, I would like
Speaker 2: to see. I would not that I would like to see,
Speaker 2: but I guess for me, I want to see the passion.
Speaker 2: I guess, which I'm sure you know, hey, internally, you know,
Speaker 2: I just talked about Scotty. We just talked about Scotty
Speaker 2: and I was praising how he doesn't really show a lot,
Speaker 2: but I do sense the passion with him and Oberg.
Speaker 2: It's almost like, Wow, I have this gift and it's
Speaker 2: so cool. But I mean, come on, man, you know
Speaker 2: you got it, so really get the most out of it.
Speaker 2: And probably he's doing that it just for appearance's sake.
Speaker 2: It seems like he's got another gear that maybe emotionally
Speaker 2: hasn't access completely yet. And I guess we'd certainly learned
Speaker 2: to be one of the masters, whether it's there or not,
Speaker 2: and almost certainly would prove that it was because right now.
Speaker 2: The expectation is there. There is pressure on him extent
Speaker 2: that you know, you got to you gotta validate, you
Speaker 2: know that how good you are, and this is the
Speaker 2: place to do it. But anyway, by the way, we
Speaker 2: didn't talk about rollback if you want to, but I'm
Speaker 2: prodding you towards that one, if you want to. But
Speaker 2: maybe you're you got to.
Speaker 1: Well, I was I was gonna, I was going to
Speaker 1: play off this. I put a poll up on Twitter
Speaker 1: during the players about Ludwig who has a better career
Speaker 1: Ludwig Akha and it was like ninety percent, loud, big, sure, overwhelming,
Speaker 1: And I just think, like, if we look at Jordan
Speaker 1: Speith and this is one of my five things, and
Speaker 1: Jordan Speith and Justin Thomas, if we had done a
Speaker 1: similar poll at at age twenty four, when they're both
Speaker 1: twenty four, it would have been ninety eight percent Jordan Speeth,
Speaker 1: two percent Justin Thomas. And we're getting to the point
Speaker 1: where it's very you know, obviously Speith has the one
Speaker 1: one extra major on Justin Thomas, and I think probably
Speaker 1: overall a better major record. But I think we're at
Speaker 1: this stage where it's like, well, like you could probably
Speaker 1: make a case that Justin Thomas his career might end
Speaker 1: with a better end, with a better career. So it's
Speaker 1: extremely hard at young ages to project who's going to
Speaker 1: evolve as a player into their early thirties and mid
Speaker 1: thirties and who's ends up being a better player. It's
Speaker 1: it's one of one of the things that makes golf
Speaker 1: such a beautiful game to watch in in you know,
Speaker 1: as a you know, you start to see these arcs
Speaker 1: of careers, whether it's Adam Scott and Sergio Garcia, how
Speaker 1: mirror images they almost are, and you you know, you
Speaker 1: could make that you could debate who was better when
Speaker 1: they were twenty four and now at age forty whatever
Speaker 1: they are, you could debate who's better.
Speaker 2: Well, I think, yeah, excuse me.
Speaker 1: But when you say, I think, like, you know, we're
Speaker 1: at Jordan Sped twenty fifteen, Masters Champ twenty sixteen, the
Speaker 1: heartbreaking kind of disaster of a where the Danny Willett,
Speaker 1: which Danny Willett was kind of the last kind of
Speaker 1: out of out of the blue a little bit. He
Speaker 1: was a great player. I think out of the is
Speaker 1: like maybe a little bit of a harsh generalization if
Speaker 1: you look at the way he had played going into
Speaker 1: that Master But I I just wonder, and I think
Speaker 1: this is just an overriding story in golf is like
Speaker 1: what where are we with Jordan Spieth? And you know
Speaker 1: what does the next five years make? And he's he's
Speaker 1: been dubbed this you know, he's this Master's specialist. And
Speaker 1: he's had two top fives in the last four years.
Speaker 1: You know, he's had miss miss cut. You know, he's
Speaker 1: shown that he's he's not invincible, But like, what what
Speaker 1: is he this bona fide? Like should he be considered
Speaker 1: a top five player at Augusta National? Still? Like, to me,
Speaker 1: I just haven't seen enough from him in the last
Speaker 1: couple of years.
Speaker 2: No, I agree, I think he's dropped out of that
Speaker 2: top five. And I think you know that that the
Speaker 2: reason the arc is so interesting in golf is that,
Speaker 2: you know, the physical game sustains longer than it does
Speaker 2: an other sport, and it comes down very often to
Speaker 2: what you have inside and how badly you wanted and
Speaker 2: how you manage your mental game in a way that's
Speaker 2: productive as opposed to allowing the game to kind of
Speaker 2: wear you down. And I do think though there are
Speaker 2: different playing styles that are more likely to wear you down.
Speaker 2: And as much as I love Jordan Speed's game and
Speaker 2: all those winning moments he gave us in two fifteen especially,
Speaker 2: he plays a game that is very wearing mentally in
Speaker 2: my opinion, because there's just a lot of brinksmanship. There's
Speaker 2: you know, Phil plays that way, but Phil capitalized in
Speaker 2: ways that made it satisfy because he had power that
Speaker 2: kept him in the game when he was hot, and
Speaker 2: Jordan doesn't have as much power. Obviously, he's trying to
Speaker 2: get longer. I wonder sometimes if to the expense of
Speaker 2: maybe his brilliant it's with with the shorter clubs. I'm
Speaker 2: not sure. I mean that happened to Looke Donald. I'm
Speaker 2: not putting them in the same exact category. But I
Speaker 2: just think Jordan's got a more complex kind of equation
Speaker 2: to solve going forward, because if he's not striking it well,
Speaker 2: it just you know, he's not going to get away
Speaker 2: with power sort of you know, giving him some easy
Speaker 2: birdies on par fives. He's got to work for the
Speaker 2: whole thing more than other players with with more with
Speaker 2: more power, and then to rely on brilliance with with
Speaker 2: the putter and rely on short game, you know, uh uh, genius,
Speaker 2: that's that's a hard way to go. It just you know,
Speaker 2: you've got to keep pulling it out of the fire.
Speaker 2: I think of Sevy, and it wore him out, you know,
Speaker 2: he just didn't hit the ball well enough to stay
Speaker 2: with with the other guys. Norman and Faldo and the
Speaker 2: other guys who lyle they just hit it better than
Speaker 2: he did, and it you know, yeah, he was the
Speaker 2: genius the ever we loved watching him, was the most
Speaker 2: entertaining and charismatic. But he was under he was under weaponized,
Speaker 2: so to speak. You know, he didn't have enough even
Speaker 2: with all the and then finally the stress of that
Speaker 2: ends up eroding your putting, you know, and it's just
Speaker 2: hard to what to me. Know, you know, two things
Speaker 2: that don't last dogs that chase cars and pros it
Speaker 2: putt for pars. You know, it's an old, wore old cliche,
Speaker 2: it but I think there's a lot to it. And
Speaker 2: I think Jordan's tried to get better bass recking and
Speaker 2: maybe he hasn't maybe from this risk injury, his mechanics
Speaker 2: are going to improve, and I would like nothing more
Speaker 2: than seeing that. But for the moment, I think he's
Speaker 2: outside the top five because he just doesn't have the
Speaker 2: physical kind of long game that you need to just
Speaker 2: keep hanging over seventy two holes.
Speaker 1: I think when I think about Jordan Spieth and his
Speaker 1: career is kind of like twenty fifteen's when I started
Speaker 1: doing this, and like, I just think about all the
Speaker 1: all the years I was. I walked a practice round
Speaker 1: with with Speith the week before Aaron Hills, and I'll
Speaker 1: never forget I was. It was it was like the
Speaker 1: Sunday before and him and Cameron McCormick were talking about
Speaker 1: getting to Jack eighteen and how how they could do it,
Speaker 1: and you just think about like that moment in time
Speaker 1: and where we are now, and it's pretty wild. Like
Speaker 1: at that moment in time, I think golf, it was like,
Speaker 1: well this guy could be the next double digit guy,
Speaker 1: you know, and they're talking about like how to get
Speaker 1: to eighteen majors And now we're sitting at three and
Speaker 1: he's not. I don't even think he's even he's on
Speaker 1: the Ryder Cup radar because he's a you know, because
Speaker 1: of his name. But if he was, if you put
Speaker 1: Joe Billy is his name, he wouldn't be on the
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup radar, given how he played, and I think, like,
Speaker 1: to me, it's when we talk about Scottie Scheffler, his
Speaker 1: approach to the game. The simplicity Jordan Speith to me
Speaker 1: is like the potential casualty of constantly searching. And I think,
Speaker 1: like you could put Victor Hovelin into this bucket and
Speaker 1: we don't know where this is going to go with
Speaker 1: Victor Hovelin. But when you when you play golf, swing
Speaker 1: more than you play golf, and you become you go
Speaker 1: down the rabbit hole of tinkering and trying to change
Speaker 1: your bluep your your fingerprint is a golfer, you run
Speaker 1: the risk of losing your incomplete identity as a golfer.
Speaker 2: It's a huge risk, but I think there's times you
Speaker 2: got to take it if you want to get if
Speaker 2: you really want to get better. I think Valdo took
Speaker 2: it in the mid eighties. He was a good player
Speaker 2: and won tournaments, but he didn't like the way he
Speaker 2: played in majors. He knew he lacked sort of the
Speaker 2: compression of the golf ball, the flighting of the golf ball,
Speaker 2: and he wanted a better technique. And I think Jordan's
Speaker 2: a really smart guy, and if they were talking about eighteen,
Speaker 2: I think that would have included we got to get
Speaker 2: to be a better ball strikers. I don't think he could.
Speaker 1: I think you look at you look at it. He
Speaker 1: was the he was maybe the best iron player in
Speaker 1: the world.
Speaker 2: He was a decent good iron player, but he didn't
Speaker 2: drive it particularly long or straight. It was you know
Speaker 2: to me. And he wasn't blowing people out. I mean
Speaker 2: the Masters, and you know he started out. He would
Speaker 2: have those rounds where he made everything and it was incredible,
Speaker 2: but they were mostly narrow victories. He was not dominant.
Speaker 2: He was not killing people like Rory did, or certainly
Speaker 2: Tiger did, and and and Scotty on occasion has too.
Speaker 2: He just had more game. I don't think. I don't
Speaker 2: think Tetera. Green Jordan had that kind of game to
Speaker 2: be thinking about eighteen majors. And I'm not saying they
Speaker 2: were seriously, you know, projecting that like it was some
Speaker 2: kind of plan. It was a nice thing to talk about,
Speaker 2: I'm sure, and he was, you know, feeling great about
Speaker 2: what he'd accomplished. But I think if he looked deep
Speaker 2: into himself and and if Cameron did as well. They'd go,
Speaker 2: you know, we got to get a little better, uh
Speaker 2: Teta Green here if we're going to truly going to
Speaker 2: be dominant players. Uh that's that was my impress I mean,
Speaker 2: I love this game. It was fun to watch it,
Speaker 2: and I'm not making it sound like a little game.
Speaker 2: It was. And he was a really good statistically iron player.
Speaker 2: He had a lot of game, but not that kind
Speaker 2: of game, not the dominant kind of game. And uh
Speaker 2: so I think he's done.
Speaker 1: I think if I think if you asked his peers too, that,
Speaker 1: like the players going up against him, I think there
Speaker 1: was belief that you can't make the putts he was making, right, No,
Speaker 1: it was unsustainedby were I think they might have been like,
Speaker 1: what is going on? How does this guy make so
Speaker 1: many putts and they've netted out? Now they if you
Speaker 1: talk to him, it was like, yeah, you can't putt
Speaker 1: like that, like that was out of this world putting.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's unreasonable. And and for whatever reason,
Speaker 2: Jordan it started to have some problems with short puts,
Speaker 2: and you know, that's definitely something that a dominant player
Speaker 2: can't keep going on. Uh uh, you know, being dominant
Speaker 2: with so anyway, I don't mean to make this a
Speaker 2: you know, a critical session on Jordan.
Speaker 1: Are there are there parallels? Would you say that a
Speaker 1: safe parallel? Could? You know? And obviously Ben Crenshaw had
Speaker 1: health issues that cause you know his Would Ben Crenshaw
Speaker 1: be a comparable career? Could be, you know, like I
Speaker 1: wouldn't rule out a late win for speed, but he
Speaker 1: just doesn't seem to be the guy that when rolled
Speaker 1: out here when he was twenty two.
Speaker 2: It's not it's not far off. I think Ben was
Speaker 2: a brilliant putter as a young guy. He was a powerful,
Speaker 2: very impressive ball striker, and he got on tour, which
Speaker 2: a lot of guys do. To your point, he realized
Speaker 2: mechanically he wasn't very consistent with his golf swing, and
Speaker 2: he wanted to make it better and he got a
Speaker 2: little lost and that set him back, and then he
Speaker 2: was always kind of going back to try and find
Speaker 2: that natural feel he had when he was you know,
Speaker 2: kind of famously said I think I was a better
Speaker 2: player when I was eighteen or nineteen. That was the
Speaker 2: best golf I ever played. I didn't think I just did.
Speaker 2: And that's to your earlier point about don't mess around
Speaker 2: with your fingerprint. But I don't know. I think the
Speaker 2: best players get better technically in a subtle, not overbearing
Speaker 2: way that that leads them on a on a too
Speaker 2: risky journey. I think Jack made a lot of a
Speaker 2: lot of adjustments over his career. The golf swing changes,
Speaker 2: but you got you got to know what you are
Speaker 2: and what kind of change matches who you are. And
Speaker 2: I think that's where it gets scary, when you start
Speaker 2: trying things that maybe just don't match your your your
Speaker 2: personality or your physical makeup. And you know, I think
Speaker 2: Victor is a Victor Hobbins, brilliant and he may be
Speaker 2: on a really interesting journey that finds a higher pot
Speaker 2: of gold, and it would have had he not tried
Speaker 2: to change. But the risk is high. And I think nowadays, though,
Speaker 2: with the money, it it's like it may be more
Speaker 2: feasible to try to change occasionally and go for the
Speaker 2: optimal as opposed to just staying with what you got
Speaker 2: and having you know, good success and knowing it'll be
Speaker 2: more consistent but never reaching you know, the ultimate. I
Speaker 2: think you might see more guys go for the ultimate now,
Speaker 2: and maybe the technology and the teaching knowledge is higher.
Speaker 2: Perhaps some would argue that it's not, but not many
Speaker 2: players have done it. You know, you can say Faldo,
Speaker 2: I'm not even sure you could say Tiger. I think
Speaker 2: Tiger with Butch and then he was great with Hank
Speaker 2: and as an iron player, he got better with parts
Speaker 2: of his game. But some would say the best was
Speaker 2: two thousand and you know, at the same time, physically
Speaker 2: you were road so you have to make changes as well.
Speaker 2: And Jordan's now got a risk injury, so he's gonna
Speaker 2: have to make changes anyway. I'm not really coming to
Speaker 2: any conclusions here. I just think that it's to just
Speaker 2: say I'm just going to stay with what I got
Speaker 2: seven you should have stayed with what he had. When
Speaker 2: you get out there and you start comparing yourself against
Speaker 2: the other guys, you know what you're missing, and it's very,
Speaker 2: very difficult not to try to aspire to to some
Speaker 2: of the strengths that other players have if you want
Speaker 2: to beat him.
Speaker 1: All right, I think we're in the same bucket with
Speaker 1: speed and just I mean, the pursuit of getting better
Speaker 1: when you're at the top of the game is one
Speaker 1: of the most fascinating things about them. And to your pointer,
Speaker 1: I mean, we saw Tiger do it. Tiger.
Speaker 2: Now you know Jordan's had two I just to make
Speaker 2: that point as well. The thing about life changing, that's
Speaker 2: another thing, obviously, but go ahead with your thought. I'm tiger.
Speaker 1: Excuse me, well, Tiger reworked a swing multiple times. I
Speaker 1: just I just finished that. Uh A couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1: I read this new Steve Williams book. Yeah, and it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, you think about like the idea of changing
Speaker 1: from go from Butcher to Hank Haney, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's like how you know it's there always Like.
Speaker 2: He loved to experiment and work on everything and know
Speaker 2: the possibilities, and it kept him engaged, you know. I
Speaker 2: mean you could make the argument that why did he change?
Speaker 2: You know he had he already had it all. He
Speaker 2: goes well to stay interested, to not get bored, to
Speaker 2: have a new goal.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: That may have been unconscious or even conscious. So you know,
Speaker 2: none of us know what it's like to be that good,
Speaker 2: you know, and it's so easy to second guess. Uh.
Speaker 2: You know, Jack Nicholas had periods. When he moved to Florida,
Speaker 2: he started playing, practicing in the wind a lot, and
Speaker 2: it made him too steep, and he just started hitting
Speaker 2: these kind of you know, glancing uh cuts, and he
Speaker 2: and he lost the ability to really uh square the
Speaker 2: club up and he so he learned that he'd gotten
Speaker 2: too upright, and and he changed and and he and
Speaker 2: then the seventies came in and he found a nice
Speaker 2: and then he lost it again. And then nineteen eighty
Speaker 2: he went to Phil Rogers and he again flatten to
Speaker 2: swing a little bit more. It's just a you know
Speaker 2: you've heard this, Andy. I mean, those guys wake up
Speaker 2: every day and it feels a little different every day,
Speaker 2: and on the on the range. Maybe the the challenge
Speaker 2: is to find something that's gonna feel comfortable within your
Speaker 2: own parameters, but it might be a different feel every day.
Speaker 1: All right, this is this podcast is called five Things
Speaker 1: about the Masters. And we're we're both at four here.
Speaker 1: We have to get to five. And I want to
Speaker 1: be conscientious of your time.
Speaker 2: What's your thirst that I thought we were at?
Speaker 1: So no, now, well well you sure at four?
Speaker 2: Okay? Oh we go, so that's actually eight?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we're at eight. Oh it's how we get
Speaker 1: to ten? You know, I just say five?
Speaker 2: Communally, you know, uh huh, go ahead, Uh my last.
Speaker 1: Thing, and I'm curious this is uh. I think like
Speaker 1: what's happened is because of Rory being on this Master's
Speaker 1: thing for you know, eleven years the Grand Slam Watch,
Speaker 1: we have the discourse of who's the best player active
Speaker 1: player without a Masters Yeah, it's a foregone conclusion. So
Speaker 1: I was thinking about it, and it's like, who's the
Speaker 1: best player outside of Rory that hasn't won it Augustin
Speaker 1: National because it always is going back to Rory and
Speaker 1: it has for ten years. And I think it's we're
Speaker 1: at this juxtaposition where we have like a number or
Speaker 1: number of players that like it's like, okay, yeah, they'd
Speaker 1: be a great Master's champ, but you know they you know,
Speaker 1: we're always going to go default to Rory would be
Speaker 1: the one that we want to see to be the
Speaker 1: first Masters winner. And then I would I with your
Speaker 1: with your brain, I think the historical I'd be I'd
Speaker 1: love to know the historical Who do you think the
Speaker 1: best player without a Master's is?
Speaker 2: Okay, you want me to start, well, on the record,
Speaker 2: it's probably Travino if you don't count Hagen, you know,
Speaker 2: because you only got to play in one or two Masters.
Speaker 2: Trevino had six Majors, but he never really came close
Speaker 2: to winning.
Speaker 1: Wasn't a golf course fit for him?
Speaker 2: Well, there were a lot of things that were at
Speaker 2: play there. A lot of it was mental and not
Speaker 2: feeling comfortable and having a conflict with Cliff Roberts and
Speaker 2: a lot of things that put him out of the mood,
Speaker 2: so to speak. But it was not a great fit.
Speaker 2: But he you know, Nicholas. One of the reasons Torino
Speaker 2: turned it around was Nicholas told him, why aren't you
Speaker 2: playing the Masters? And that was, you know, part of
Speaker 2: the conversation. The most important part was when he said,
Speaker 2: you don't have any idea how good you are. You
Speaker 2: can win anywhere and here, and that from Nicholas just
Speaker 2: changed Trevino's own self image and he went on a run.
Speaker 2: And that was in seventy one. That was in March
Speaker 2: of seventy one, and seventy one was his greatest year
Speaker 2: after that. So anyway, yeah, I would say Norman is
Speaker 2: the best player to have not won the Masters, because
Speaker 2: he had three runner ups and three thirds and gave
Speaker 2: away at least one and certainly conceivably too and you know,
Speaker 2: Brooks has got five and he's still in today's world,
Speaker 2: so he may be the answer besides Rory to your
Speaker 2: modern question.
Speaker 1: He's been close. I think you Brooks has had better
Speaker 1: chances to win at the Masters than Rory too.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think you could make an argument he
Speaker 1: you know, you could make an argument that you know,
Speaker 1: he's the one because you think about like the Tiger Masters,
Speaker 1: the Rom Masters, where like that it seemed like that
Speaker 1: Rob Masters really so you know that he turns around
Speaker 1: wins Oakhill, and he always references that that day and
Speaker 1: it was a weird day because he had to play
Speaker 1: thirty six holes effectively with Rom that day, you know,
Speaker 1: and you wonder if, like if there had been a
Speaker 1: reset after eighteen and you had like it's like these
Speaker 1: sliding door moments like where you know, sometimes getting off
Speaker 1: the golf course is the best thing that can happen,
Speaker 1: you know, and that day being such, with the way
Speaker 1: the weather shook out that week, him having to just
Speaker 1: bear all through was probably the worst thing that could
Speaker 1: have happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, we don't look at Brooks not
Speaker 2: winning the Masters as this sad missing link or anything,
Speaker 2: because he's had these PGAs in US opens to I
Speaker 2: think feel like it's gravy at this point, more majors.
Speaker 2: But let's see, he's capable. He certainly showed it. I
Speaker 2: mean in twenty nineteen, you know, he was right there.
Speaker 2: He's one of the guys on twelve that kind of
Speaker 2: handed as the tiger. And so there's a lot of guys.
Speaker 2: You could talk about Hale Rwin, you could talk about
Speaker 2: Kayne Stewart, Louis ust Heisen, you know, a lot of
Speaker 2: guy Davis.
Speaker 1: Love, There's a lot of guys else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Ernie l certainly, I would say Weiskoff with four
Speaker 2: runner ups was probably the other one. And he, you know,
Speaker 2: he's in the Hall of Fame now. Johnny Miller, great player,
Speaker 2: almost one in seventy one. Almost wanted Johnny. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The crazy thing about Johnny was that his caddy, Andy Martinez,
Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to caddy for him.
Speaker 2: Well nobody and yeah, because.
Speaker 1: At the time it was you had to use And
Speaker 1: during that crazy run, they had a putting routine where
Speaker 1: Johnny didn't feel like he could line the ball up, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think, and Martinez would would read the putts and
Speaker 1: line the putts up for him.
Speaker 2: No, I know, and they outlawed that finally. But yeah,
Speaker 2: he had a guy named Mark Eubanks uh an old
Speaker 2: Augusta Caddy who was known for reading putts, so you know,
Speaker 2: he felt pretty good with the reads, Johnny said. You know,
Speaker 2: I've talked to Johnny a lot over the years. He
Speaker 2: just got too nervous in majors with the putter. The
Speaker 2: putter was his weakness. He had gotten yippy of all
Speaker 2: places in college after being like, uh, in his mind
Speaker 2: one of the top ten putters in the world when
Speaker 2: he was a junior, and not exaggerating in his mind.
Speaker 2: You know, he had a gift, but he lost it
Speaker 2: and he never really had in his mind a great
Speaker 2: putting era, even though he was winning fourteen at Tucson
Speaker 2: in Phoenix, in his mind he was just hitting it
Speaker 2: so close. So I think Johnny, as far as talent,
Speaker 2: along with Trevino, maybe those are the two that you
Speaker 2: would say, you know, should have had a master's even
Speaker 2: though Trevino's style probably didn't fit. But as far as opportunities,
Speaker 2: I'd say Norman and Weiskoff the two, and Ernie close by.
Speaker 2: You know, then you got guys like, you know, great
Speaker 2: players Hailer winning Price, and Nick Price was right there
Speaker 2: in eighty six, but in general they were not perennial
Speaker 2: Master's challengers, and the guys that I mentioned were except
Speaker 2: for Trevino.
Speaker 1: I think one player that you could start to identify
Speaker 1: is Colin Morikawa with his two majors. But then you're
Speaker 1: starting to see this master's form where twenty twenty two
Speaker 1: fifth place, twenty twenty three tenth, twenty four t third,
Speaker 1: and you start to see what he's put together this year.
Speaker 1: And I know he hasn't won in a while, but
Speaker 1: he's been really really close, and he's been losing to
Speaker 1: a lot of great players. When he loses, is he's
Speaker 1: he's second in strokes gain total, he's ahead of Scotty
Speaker 1: Scheffler and strokes gained total only behind Rory McRoy. And
Speaker 1: you start that golf course is a really good fit
Speaker 1: for somebody that hits really great iron shots, and he
Speaker 1: is he is a I mean Scotty's one iron player
Speaker 1: one A. I think Colin more Cow is probably the
Speaker 1: only other guy that on a day can wake up
Speaker 1: out of bed and say I'm a better iron player
Speaker 1: than Scotty Scheffler.
Speaker 2: Well, I'd say skill set wise very well suited other
Speaker 2: than length. But you know, I just say, second shot
Speaker 2: golf course and he hits it long enough.
Speaker 1: I think that length is not I think everybody almost
Speaker 1: in the field prerequisitely outside of you know, your really
Speaker 1: short hitters have enough to get over those.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's showing that he can contend. So I
Speaker 2: would only say, you know, can can you make the
Speaker 2: last putt? You know, can the putter holed up on Sunday?
Speaker 2: And that's that's to me, the question mark with Colin.
Speaker 2: And you know that sounds harsh, but I think that's
Speaker 2: what's been missing. And he's there a lot, and getting
Speaker 2: over the line means making the big putts, and that's
Speaker 2: that's the club. That is the question mark.
Speaker 1: All right, last question, who's your pick to win?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well, you know early you can always change this.
Speaker 2: Oh no, it doesn't matter. I don't you know I'm picking.
Speaker 2: I'd never taken it seriously because I'm always wrong. But
Speaker 2: I happen to pick Rory at the Players. Of course,
Speaker 2: that was on Saturday, but still he was behind. And
Speaker 2: I'm gonna pick Rory again because I want him to win.
Speaker 2: But I'd love to see Scotty Win too. It's not
Speaker 2: it's not about actually sentiment, it's history. I'd love to
Speaker 2: see Rory make history, and I think he's pretty pretty
Speaker 2: close to ready, maybe as close as he'll ever get.
Speaker 2: And if he does it, it's going to be, I think,
Speaker 2: so satisfying for so many You mentioned Crenshaw. It'll be
Speaker 2: that kind of feeling if he wins.
Speaker 1: I the last two years, I've somehow talked myself out
Speaker 1: of Skottie Scheffler as the week's gone on, and like
Speaker 1: I told myself, go again, I'm not talking myself out
Speaker 1: of this. So I'm taking Shuffler by hearts with Rory,
Speaker 1: but I'm sticking with with Scheffler this year. I just
Speaker 1: won't won't do it to myself.
Speaker 2: So I'm almost right there, almost right there with you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Hi, May, Where can we see your work this week?
Speaker 1: A Golf Digest and then you'll be on Live From.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll just be on Live From for the one
Speaker 2: segment each night with the you know, the privilege to
Speaker 2: be with Brandon and Paul.
Speaker 1: So I'm with those incredible, incredible show. So thank you
Speaker 1: so much. We'll have to do this more often. It's
Speaker 1: been too long so we came on and I got
Speaker 1: I got some ideas as we were talking about future things.
Speaker 1: But it's such a pleasure to have you on and
Speaker 1: look forward to seeing you next week at a Gusta.
Speaker 2: It was a pleasure being with you Andy, Thanks for
Speaker 2: having me and look forward it's a couple of days
Speaker 2: away as all.
Speaker 1: All right, thank you for listening to another edition of
Speaker 1: the Frida Egg Golf Podcast. Big thanks to Hime Diaz.
Speaker 1: That was fantastic, and huge thanks to PJ Clark for
Speaker 1: editing and producing this podcast. PJ will be in Augusta.
Speaker 1: We're trying to get him on the grounds. We'll see
Speaker 1: if we get him on the grounds, but he will
Speaker 1: be in Augusta this week doing some production work and
Speaker 1: helping us, helping us keep on the straight and narrow
Speaker 1: as we need help. As I said at the top,
Speaker 1: sign up for the Fridagg newsletter. If you're interested in
Speaker 1: daily podcasts, check out the Shotguns Start. We will be
Speaker 1: breaking down all the action from the grounds and I
Speaker 1: hope everyone has an awesome Master's week S