Speaker 1: The number one podcast is back. They're my relatives. I
Speaker 1: still love them. I pray that God forgives them. I
Speaker 1: pray that I'll see them in heaven. But here on
Speaker 1: earth eternity in jail is not long enough. Eight from
Speaker 1: the same family dead in rural southern Ohio. One family
Speaker 1: accused of killing members of another family. Just when we
Speaker 1: thought we knew what happened during the piked And Massacre,
Speaker 1: everything is turned upside down. I just feel like something
Speaker 1: is not right. Was this truly about custody. I don't
Speaker 1: think he would kill her, but I think he would
Speaker 1: kill more her. Now, with childs on the horizon, new
Speaker 1: theories arise. There's like a good four or five places
Speaker 1: at Burndale. We're told he's lying because they're getting death
Speaker 1: threats behind bars. I would sit to the jail house
Speaker 1: in Pike County, good book, money on their book, So
Speaker 1: it's not years ay for me. Why are we just
Speaker 1: learning about this now? This is one of the biggest
Speaker 1: pieces of physical evidence that we've had thus for. Just
Speaker 1: when we thought it couldn't get any stranger or darker,
Speaker 1: it has. This is the Pikes And Massacre, Season three,
Speaker 1: Episode one. Mother May I officers wearing body armor guarded
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner as she walked into a Pike County courtroom
Speaker 1: to admit, after years of denials, that she helped plan
Speaker 1: the murders of Hannah Roden and her family. On the
Speaker 1: warm and heavily humid afternoon of September tenth, twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: in Pike County, Ohio, accused killer mother Angela Wagner, arrived
Speaker 1: in court. She was wearing black and white striped prison garb,
Speaker 1: and her hair, previously short and blonde, now hangs in
Speaker 1: a long brown curtain. Here's Judge Randy Deering. You're admitting
Speaker 1: for bargain? Were your wife require beyond reason? Bad? Do
Speaker 1: you understand all of those? Right? It's hard to hear,
Speaker 1: but that's Angelo Wagner admitting guilt. The mother accused in
Speaker 1: Ohio's most complex Amazone investigation has just reached a plea deal.
Speaker 1: As part of the deal, the aggravated murder charges against
Speaker 1: Wagner were dropped. She also agreed to testify against her
Speaker 1: family members. She will spend thirty years in prison and
Speaker 1: cannot apply for parole. But the defendant to us understatements
Speaker 1: were very visit to April this year in the usual
Speaker 1: and her family member is all inspired together to committees
Speaker 1: werenic defenses specifically the entry agent homes and for different
Speaker 1: vacation in order to kill me that time, Yeah defendant
Speaker 1: and the statement they joined recommendation to thirty years in prison.
Speaker 1: Anguel Joe Wagoner did unlowly and was pursed to commit
Speaker 1: everybody murder was another person who were persons, so her
Speaker 1: specific targets of the Wagoners so sadly were killed simply
Speaker 1: because they happened to be there. It's not clear which
Speaker 1: of the eight victims were targets and which, as Angie
Speaker 1: Kaneppa said, were killed simply because they happened to be there.
Speaker 1: Was there a kill list and if so, were others
Speaker 1: just caught by happenstance In the mayhem of the Wagner's
Speaker 1: murder spree, she was aware that night they walked out
Speaker 1: on the floor twenty and sixteen, who really were going
Speaker 1: and what they were going to do? Maybe tried to
Speaker 1: cover up their involvement in ange reference as well, Betters
Speaker 1: tressaud Into eighty two wrestlers were found with the attracted Hilda.
Speaker 1: In all Angela Wagner pled guilty to fourteen charges, including
Speaker 1: conspiracy to commit murder, burglary, possession of firearms, tampering with evidence, forgery,
Speaker 1: and engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. We now
Speaker 1: know that the Knight of the murderers, Angela Wagner, was
Speaker 1: at home watching her two grandchildren while the others allegedly
Speaker 1: went out on a kill Spring Courtney Armstrong a television
Speaker 1: producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane.
Speaker 1: In the three hundred and one days since our last
Speaker 1: episode aired, there have been several significant court hearings. The
Speaker 1: biggest yet an unexpected appearance by accused killer mother herself,
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner. She's the second accused Wagner member to plead out.
Speaker 1: You're Stephanie and Jeff speaking with forensic expert Joseph Scott
Speaker 1: Morgan and journalist Angeanette Levy about Angela's plea deal. I
Speaker 1: was surprised because apparently she's eligible for release after serving
Speaker 1: thirty years. So who wouldn't take that because then she
Speaker 1: can possibly and I say possibly, because she may not
Speaker 1: live that long one day get out of prison. And
Speaker 1: this is a huge revelation. I mean, for three years
Speaker 1: now we've talked about the four core Wagoners being at
Speaker 1: every Rodan home the night of the murders, all potentially
Speaker 1: even being trigger polars, and to find out, Angela is
Speaker 1: now kind of pulling the rug out from under that
Speaker 1: story and saying that she was in fact actually at home,
Speaker 1: presumably watching the children, as her husband and two sons
Speaker 1: were out murdering the eight Rodan family members. Is a
Speaker 1: big shift in how that night played out. That is
Speaker 1: a very low sentence for somebody who, by her own admission,
Speaker 1: is saying that she plotted plan to murder eight people.
Speaker 1: I knew full well that they were leaving the house
Speaker 1: allegedly to murder that night, so she stayed home in
Speaker 1: babysat and just waited for them to get home. My
Speaker 1: thought is, she doesn't have to be in the room
Speaker 1: pulling a trigger here. There have been people that have
Speaker 1: gotten the needle over the years for being a planner,
Speaker 1: a facilitator, if you will, of a broader arching theme.
Speaker 1: She knows what she's involved in, and she'd better be
Speaker 1: thinking her lucky stars. You know, there's thirty years that
Speaker 1: she's giving. Maybe she wasn't physically there. She was there though,
Speaker 1: I mean It makes you wonder she's out going to
Speaker 1: walmarts and by the shoes for her kids to go
Speaker 1: do it like how a mom buys her kids shoes
Speaker 1: for the first day of school, and now she's getting off,
Speaker 1: probably with the lightest sentence. Did she have the wherewithal
Speaker 1: to see that maybe if I stay home, my hands
Speaker 1: are clean or much cleaner than the rest of my family.
Speaker 1: If Angela Wagner was looking to protect her family and
Speaker 1: her son's daughter, why would she possibly send her sons
Speaker 1: out to commit murder, They too could possibly be killed.
Speaker 1: You don't have to whitewash this in any way. She
Speaker 1: was there, you know. We talked about the boots which
Speaker 1: are going to come into play, I think, and we
Speaker 1: talked about the weapons that were utilized and how the
Speaker 1: setups on those were. She may not have had a
Speaker 1: gun in her hand, but she was there in more
Speaker 1: ways than one. It's very possible she is leaving one
Speaker 1: of her sons her dead to take the hit for her.
Speaker 1: That's even more demanded. She also was the shopper and
Speaker 1: involved in a lot of the planning of this, and
Speaker 1: I can say that now because she's admitted to it.
Speaker 1: You know, she's not accused anymore. She's pleading guilty. Although
Speaker 1: one interesting legal point is that Angela and Jake Wagner
Speaker 1: have to testify to the satisfaction of the prosecution or
Speaker 1: all four of their death sentences are back on the table.
Speaker 1: That means, for an extreme example, if Angela and Jake
Speaker 1: plead the fifth or do not testify to something that
Speaker 1: the prosecution believes that they know according to the deal
Speaker 1: they've made, this negates the plea deal. What a show
Speaker 1: this court appearance will be so for the first time.
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, the accused father, George Wagner, the accused eldest son,
Speaker 1: both now are moving forward with their trials, and ultimately
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner, the youngest son, and now mom Angela Wagner,
Speaker 1: will testify against them in front of them ida eye,
Speaker 1: and if the stories don't add up, they all could
Speaker 1: be looking at death sentences. It basically means that Angela
Speaker 1: and Jake Wagner better bring the goods to the trial.
Speaker 1: According to Angela Wagner's testimony, her family purchased quite a
Speaker 1: few things to prepare for this murder. Special shoes from Walmart, ammunition,
Speaker 1: a magazine, clip, brass, catchers and a bug detector, and
Speaker 1: a bug detector is something that detects signals admitted from cameras,
Speaker 1: which would help figure out if there were surveillance cameras.
Speaker 1: So there was clearly a lot of thought and preparation
Speaker 1: for this murder. This was not a crime of passion.
Speaker 1: Here Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa further describing the Wagner's alleged
Speaker 1: planning of the murders, specific purchases they made and actions
Speaker 1: they took to cover up the crime. The foes retire
Speaker 1: together any automicide and defended to a part in that
Speaker 1: as well as making various purchases to accomplish people there
Speaker 1: needed to phones of all victids and cameras and others
Speaker 1: to be able to Additionally, the destroy those items before
Speaker 1: acumis to gain after planning for mass committing automa sides
Speaker 1: and be carrying the commiside out. Four defendend time tri
Speaker 1: asking others or to be dishonest with us actually admitted
Speaker 1: to purchasings are him relating to the events. Is that
Speaker 1: we're meant to help the other pretty good events and
Speaker 1: carrying out the crimes. Such a which defends people to
Speaker 1: be able to call for help. The thought of the
Speaker 1: jammers is so horrifying. I mean, the forethought that would
Speaker 1: go into disabling the Rodents family's phones so that they
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to call for help as they were
Speaker 1: being shot to death is really just a very scary visual.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine horror hits your house. You're fighting for
Speaker 1: your life, the people you love are being murdered, and
Speaker 1: the murderers are coming for you next, and you can
Speaker 1: finally get to the phone, and now the phones are
Speaker 1: jammed and you can't even call nine one one. It's
Speaker 1: anybody's worst nightmare. It's a nightmare scenario and then a
Speaker 1: nightmare within that. We know, for example, little Chris was
Speaker 1: able to hide for some time during the murders. It
Speaker 1: makes you wonder did he have access to a cell
Speaker 1: phone or a house phone and tried to call for
Speaker 1: help And couldn't you get through the scariest thought imaginable.
Speaker 1: When we first started covering this, it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: Ninja's in the night and it was all no one
Speaker 1: could possibly figure out who did this? They were so skilled?
Speaker 1: Whoever did this murder? Now we know it's pretty sloppy.
Speaker 1: Did they just get lucky for two years. There were
Speaker 1: shell casings left at the scene. That's how these people
Speaker 1: get caught. They make mistakes, they don't cover all of
Speaker 1: their tracks. This is one of the biggest murder cases
Speaker 1: in Ohio's history, if not the biggest. So here we
Speaker 1: are two plea deals, many motions, and two remaining trials ahead.
Speaker 1: Is it possible that Angela Wagner orchestrated the plan to
Speaker 1: murder other mothers in front of their children? And if so,
Speaker 1: how could a mother create a plan that would turn
Speaker 1: her own sons into killers. Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan
Speaker 1: remembers driving past the house where the Wagner family lived.
Speaker 1: I remember traveling out to that home that they all shared,
Speaker 1: that farmhouse. It made me think, you know, for that
Speaker 1: moment time when I'm you know, traveling through that little
Speaker 1: lane in front of the home, you sit there and
Speaker 1: you kind of consider it, you know. I remember slowing
Speaker 1: down the car and just kind of staring at it,
Speaker 1: looking at it, you know, set there and that it's
Speaker 1: a beautiful backdrop, you know, the fence and the greenery
Speaker 1: behind it, and you're thinking about, you know, what kind
Speaker 1: of plannings going on around the kitchen table. They're all
Speaker 1: party to this, and it just becomes absolutely insidious. And
Speaker 1: it seemed impossible to imagine that they were having murderer meetings.
Speaker 1: We were speculating about that and it seemed impossible. But
Speaker 1: now we do know that to be a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: if we believe everything that's been said so far by
Speaker 1: Jake and Angela. Yeah, I agree. You start talking about conspiracy,
Speaker 1: you gotta have a meeting. You know, you gotta have
Speaker 1: a meeting. It's a collaborative effort. You know, they had meetings.
Speaker 1: Trust me. I don't know if anybody get minutes, but
Speaker 1: they had meetings. Unique to this case is that there
Speaker 1: are so many mothers involved on all sides. Three mothers
Speaker 1: were murdered that night, including beloved matriarch, thirty seven year
Speaker 1: old victim Dana Roden. Dana Roden was returning home from
Speaker 1: working a double shift as a nurse that faithful night.
Speaker 1: She was shot five times in the head, four in
Speaker 1: the side of the head, and once under her chin.
Speaker 1: Dana Roden lived on Union Hill Road with her nineteen
Speaker 1: year old daughter, victim Hanname Roden. Hanname Roden shared a
Speaker 1: two and a half year old daughter with admitted murderer
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner. This child is said to be at the
Speaker 1: center of this story. Hannah may Rodin had also given
Speaker 1: birth just five days prior and was holding her newborn
Speaker 1: when she was shot twice in the head. We should
Speaker 1: remind you that there are two Hannah's in this story. Admittedly,
Speaker 1: we know the least about mother and victim, twenty year
Speaker 1: old Hannah Gilly. She had long blonde hair, were dark
Speaker 1: framed eyeglasses, and hoped to start a daycare. She and
Speaker 1: her fiance eldest son and victim Frankie Rodin, were murdered
Speaker 1: in their bed in front of their six month old
Speaker 1: and Frankie's three year old son. The children were found
Speaker 1: alive at the scenes. Hannah Gilly was shot five times
Speaker 1: in the head, once through the eye. To add another
Speaker 1: layer to that that's already complicated story, Hannah Gilly was
Speaker 1: the sister of Charlie Gilly. Charlie Gilly was the guy
Speaker 1: Hannah may Rodin started dating after her split from Jake Wagner.
Speaker 1: So the relationship between Hannah Gilly's brother, Charlie Gilly, and
Speaker 1: Hannah may Roden feels significant to the story because it
Speaker 1: was the first relationship that Hannah Rodin really got into
Speaker 1: after her split from Jake Wagner. And of course there's
Speaker 1: no way to know this for sure, or at least
Speaker 1: until the trials happened, but it makes you wonder if
Speaker 1: Hannah Gilly was shot so many times five to be specific,
Speaker 1: because Jake Wagner felt some type of way about her
Speaker 1: brother's relationship with Hannah May We're going to take a break.
Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. On May second, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two, a mere three weeks before this episode is airing,
Speaker 1: there was another court appearance. This was emotions hearing between
Speaker 1: the prosecution, an accused old son George Wagner the fourth
Speaker 1: defense team. It's the latest turn in Ohio's largest homicide investigation.
Speaker 1: Attorneys for George Wagner the Fourth say there is proof
Speaker 1: he did not kill any of the eight victims. Attorneys
Speaker 1: for the oldest Wagner's son are now asking for murder
Speaker 1: charges to be dropped. The hearing revealed even more details
Speaker 1: of the Wagner's time leading up to the murders, the
Speaker 1: night itself, and the aftermath. There was a specific focus
Speaker 1: on how the Wagner family treated women who entered their fold,
Speaker 1: beginning with victim Hanname Rodin, Jake Wagner's former girlfriend and
Speaker 1: mother of his child. The court lays out how Hanname
Speaker 1: was manipulated, abused, and controlled all but Angela at the helm.
Speaker 1: Thank you. This is State of Ohio playtoff versus George
Speaker 1: Washington Wagner the fourth defender. The case number eighteen's one
Speaker 1: fifty five. Today's May second, twenty twenty two, and this
Speaker 1: today hearing. We'd have a hearing schedule one motions. Today
Speaker 1: the defendant was present in court. Attorneys, the record should
Speaker 1: reflect to the defendish appearing to day, and so though
Speaker 1: you clothed in visible restraints. The five foot nine George
Speaker 1: Wagner the Fourth is thickly built, with green eyes and
Speaker 1: thinning brown hair. He wears the same clothes to each
Speaker 1: court appearance, a button down with a black vest over it.
Speaker 1: George Wagner sits flanked by his two attorneys, largely keeping
Speaker 1: his eyes lowered to the desk in front of him.
Speaker 1: Here again, Special Prosecutor Ajakanepa, I should talk about what
Speaker 1: we believe people were arching think of this criminal enterprise.
Speaker 1: It's kind of the all for one and one raw right,
Speaker 1: they functioned as a family unit, so part of that
Speaker 1: was control over the two grandchildren in the next the
Speaker 1: defendant son and Jake Starr also when Jake hold would
Speaker 1: be this unborn child at the time, so in their
Speaker 1: reaction to when they lose control of that. There obviously
Speaker 1: also was some financial purpose behind some of what they did. Right,
Speaker 1: they were homeschooled, very insular who did not have people
Speaker 1: going off and doing things on their own. So as
Speaker 1: far as the defendant and the relationship with Hannah, this
Speaker 1: involves divesting violence towards Hannah. When we look back at
Speaker 1: Hanname Roden's social media posts in the months leading up
Speaker 1: to her murder, it's clear she was crying out for help.
Speaker 1: In one post, she states quote end domestic violence, live
Speaker 1: a happier life here again Angie Kneppa, further outlining the
Speaker 1: length the Wagoners went through to attempt to secure Hanname
Speaker 1: Roden's child. We do have admissions on the part of
Speaker 1: Jay as to pushing her up against a wall and
Speaker 1: basically having his arm in a position that it was
Speaker 1: choking her airways. We have witnesses to him chasing her
Speaker 1: in a vehicle after getting upset with her one day,
Speaker 1: his controlling nature towards Hannah, including but not limited to
Speaker 1: dictating every aspect in regard to their shared child. That
Speaker 1: continued writing up until Hannah was killed. His controlling nature
Speaker 1: towards Hannah regarding the second child, including but not limited
Speaker 1: to telling her not to disclose the child's pactual father
Speaker 1: that it was his child. Because Hannah was very forthright
Speaker 1: with Jake and told him that it was not his child,
Speaker 1: he tried to get her to agree to not tell
Speaker 1: the actual father that the child was that person's child,
Speaker 1: offering to give her money to put his name on
Speaker 1: their certificate, trying to give vince her to move to
Speaker 1: Alaska with the whole family, and suggesting that they raise
Speaker 1: that child offside sheer child, as if the child was
Speaker 1: the defendant. The father of the baby, Angie Kneppa is
Speaker 1: referring to as Charlie Gilly, who had just heard about
Speaker 1: Charlie Gilly dated hannahme rodin the summer before she was murdered.
Speaker 1: He was later proven to be the father of her
Speaker 1: five day old. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. This is the
Speaker 1: story as old as time, and we hear it a
Speaker 1: lot Unfortunately, jealousy plus rage often equals death, and this
Speaker 1: case seems to be no different in that regard. Honestly,
Speaker 1: it's a young mom. How do you murder somebody in
Speaker 1: that way straight to the face. It seems as though
Speaker 1: there has to be something more personal to this, you know.
Speaker 1: We recently came across some personal photographs that were shared
Speaker 1: with us, one of which is particularly haunting. It shows
Speaker 1: Hannah May rodin in the hospital right after a giving
Speaker 1: birth to her baby. She's sitting on her hospital bed
Speaker 1: next to her father, also victim, Chris Roden Senior, and
Speaker 1: she's holding her baby and wedge between them is now
Speaker 1: who we know to be a murderer, Jake Wagner, sitting
Speaker 1: between them, and he is smiling ear to ear as
Speaker 1: though in a family photo, as if with his father
Speaker 1: in law and the love of his life, Hannah May.
Speaker 1: And really the truth of this photo is that he
Speaker 1: was going to kill Hannah May, her father, and her
Speaker 1: entire family. And that's the part that you just can't grasp.
Speaker 1: He had different plans for everybody involved, and the photo
Speaker 1: you can see in their eyes that this is not
Speaker 1: a genuine moment that anyone is enjoying other than Jake Wagner,
Speaker 1: which is just very tragic knowing what we know is
Speaker 1: to calm or this family here again Special Prosecutor Angie Kneppa.
Speaker 1: So they had actual people that lived near her reporting
Speaker 1: back is the Randian or men around or etc. And
Speaker 1: they would be cor back to Jake again. Jake's occession
Speaker 1: with Hannah wanting to get back with her and me
Speaker 1: and jealous of relationship with over males, and as we
Speaker 1: indicated to the Court and honor, this was very reminiscent
Speaker 1: of what George did with the mother of his trild.
Speaker 1: George Wagner's ex wife was a woman named Tabitha. Together,
Speaker 1: Tabitha and George Wagner had a baby boy, Angela. Wagner
Speaker 1: fought tooth and nail to ensure she was in charge
Speaker 1: of the son, so much that she emotionally tormented Tabitha
Speaker 1: until the young woman snapped and gave up custody to
Speaker 1: the Wagner family. We first heard about this abusive relationship
Speaker 1: that Tabitha had with the Wagner family when we met
Speaker 1: her sister Christina and mother Patricia a few years ago
Speaker 1: in a trip that we took to Pike County, Ohio.
Speaker 1: When we were there in Pike County, it was pretty
Speaker 1: clear this was a pattern. Tabitha was the first target,
Speaker 1: and she was scared enough that she actually turned over
Speaker 1: the rights of her son to the Wagner family, and
Speaker 1: that perhaps the Wagners were at it again, and because
Speaker 1: the Rodent family was fighting this custody that that's maybe
Speaker 1: why their lives were taken. We were there shooting a
Speaker 1: documentary for NBC's Oxygen Network called The Rodin Family Murders,
Speaker 1: and when we started speaking to people who knew the
Speaker 1: Wagner family, what we uncovered was a pattern, a pattern
Speaker 1: of not only abuse, but a pattern of the Wagner
Speaker 1: family being obsessed with control of custody. And so while
Speaker 1: we all thought hannah Me Rodin was the first victim
Speaker 1: of this, it turns out that was not the case,
Speaker 1: and that this other family felt as if they too
Speaker 1: were the victims of the Wagner's obsession with control. And
Speaker 1: I think it's worth noting that hannah Me Rodin and
Speaker 1: Tabitha where would be sister in laws, they were also
Speaker 1: really close friends and allies, and ultimately they were both
Speaker 1: alleged victims of the exact same family of abusers, the Wagners.
Speaker 1: Tabitha's sister spoke to us at length last reason, and
Speaker 1: now for the first time ever, her mother, Patricia, has
Speaker 1: also agreed to speak on the podcast as well. And
Speaker 1: keep in mind, we now know that Tabitha's mother, Patricia
Speaker 1: is really at the center of the trials ahead. What
Speaker 1: we found is that their lives also may have been
Speaker 1: in jeopardy had Tabitha not signed away her rights to
Speaker 1: the Wagner family. It seems like it might have been
Speaker 1: possible that they too could have been murdered. It's a
Speaker 1: very chilling thought. Again, Angie Kaneppa on the Wagner's mistreatment
Speaker 1: of Tabitha. They would meet as a family and take
Speaker 1: votes before they decided what they would do. That would
Speaker 1: range from where they were going to live down to
Speaker 1: the most intimate details between a husband and wife, for instance,
Speaker 1: intimate relations between George and Tabitha. Angela involved herself in that,
Speaker 1: so there was literally nothing that was off limits. Everything
Speaker 1: was done as a family unit. Let sinking. Angela Wagner
Speaker 1: was even involved in the most intimate details between a
Speaker 1: husband and wife. They ultimately made the mother of George's
Speaker 1: child signed over entire custody to George with the agreement
Speaker 1: that Tabitha could visit the child if and when the
Speaker 1: Wagner said that she could. Angela has admitted that she
Speaker 1: was the one having in social media that the reason
Speaker 1: she was paying so close attention to Tabitha's Facebook was
Speaker 1: because Tabitha was making noise about taking them to court
Speaker 1: to finally get standard visitation with her child that she
Speaker 1: had never been able to receive. So that was the
Speaker 1: reason they were doing that. But they just happened to
Speaker 1: see the conversation between Hannah and Tabitha's mother. This is
Speaker 1: a level of control that she has over her adult
Speaker 1: sons that is unparalleled. In Summer two, the teens and
Speaker 1: the private Facebook message to show that a person telling
Speaker 1: them that she did overside papers and people have to
Speaker 1: tell me nurist was first seen by Angela teaching the
Speaker 1: Squeech later Journey to Jade and the other Handily members.
Speaker 1: In this moment, while illegally spying on her daughter in
Speaker 1: law's social media, Angela Wagner intercepts a message from Hanname
Speaker 1: roading to Patricia. Hanname stated that she would never sign
Speaker 1: custody papers ever, writing quote they will have to kill
Speaker 1: me first. Was this the moment that sealed the fate
Speaker 1: of the eight soon to be victims? Let's stop here
Speaker 1: for another break. Two months later, I resign yourself. Evidence
Speaker 1: of the virus is homicide. In four months after design
Speaker 1: reporter Antonette Levy a few kind of looked at the
Speaker 1: big picture and looked at all of the details and
Speaker 1: what we had been able to learn about. You know
Speaker 1: how this whole alleged plan unfolded with Angela Wagner having
Speaker 1: access to Hannah's Facebook account and seeing the message she
Speaker 1: had exchanged with Tabitha's mother, you know, saying they'd have
Speaker 1: to kill me first. And according to the prosecutors, Angela
Speaker 1: shows that to Jake and then the whole plan unfolds
Speaker 1: from there. So they're the driving forces. She's pleaded guilty
Speaker 1: to basically hacking into these Facebook accounts and monitoring these people.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of planning that went into this.
Speaker 1: I mean, she was heavily involved, although she wasn't in
Speaker 1: the room according to Jake, and according to her, somebody
Speaker 1: had to stay home with the children. Right. This is
Speaker 1: based on their collective shared suspicion of anyone outside of
Speaker 1: their family and the safety and well being of the
Speaker 1: children that George had and Jake had defending in his family,
Speaker 1: preventing Tabitha from contacting her family during the time she
Speaker 1: was I could be defending his family. She will tell
Speaker 1: you that I believe she was allowed to call her
Speaker 1: mother one day, I remember Mother's birthday or Thunder's Day.
Speaker 1: Last season, we heard from Tabitha's sister, Christina, who explained
Speaker 1: to us the abuse that Tabitha went through while living
Speaker 1: with the Wagner family. This included tracking her movements, emotionally
Speaker 1: abusing her, verbally assaulting her, making her feel less. Then
Speaker 1: and ultimately, Tabitha was forced to make a dramatic escape
Speaker 1: from the Wagner home. Even at the time, we were
Speaker 1: not aware of quite how intertwined Tabitha and Victi hannahme
Speaker 1: Rodan were until now, as Moore is coming out about
Speaker 1: the months leading up to the murders, Tabitha's name is
Speaker 1: really a part of this story in a big way.
Speaker 1: Defending is mainly threatening to shoot Tabitha on the last
Speaker 1: night she was signed with them, before fleeing for her life,
Speaker 1: never to return to the residents. Defending and codefendants having
Speaker 1: Tabitha's child who heard to and considered Angela as his mother,
Speaker 1: spying on her through surreptitious means including been a limited shoe,
Speaker 1: accessing both her and her mother's social media accounts, and
Speaker 1: having mothers spy on her and get back to them.
Speaker 1: They actually tried to enlist Hannah May while Pianamee was alive,
Speaker 1: to get information that Tabitha might disclose to her and
Speaker 1: report it back to them again. Paul to maintain custody
Speaker 1: and control of the children. Defendant in this co defend
Speaker 1: is taking actions to prevent Tabitha for being able to
Speaker 1: be gained custody, including been limited to try and keep
Speaker 1: the child from her for more than a year so
Speaker 1: that they could claim abandonment. That was their distinct state
Speaker 1: for doing that. As we just heard, the Wagners tried
Speaker 1: to manipulate Hannah Me and Tabitha for their own means.
Speaker 1: The two young women were both in near identical situations
Speaker 1: and were very close. Here's Tabitha's sister, Christina. They were
Speaker 1: best friends. Whenever Hannah was basically leaving Jake and all that,
Speaker 1: getting out of Angela's brass, she was talking to my
Speaker 1: sister about how to do it, and my sister told
Speaker 1: her that she had just left. She got tired of
Speaker 1: it before she had left. She asked my sister why
Speaker 1: she had left and all that, and she was upsettor
Speaker 1: at first because my sister had left her alone to
Speaker 1: deal with it all by herself. But where they were
Speaker 1: best friends, my sister took up for Hannah a lot
Speaker 1: and didn't have that support anymore. Whenever Hannah finally left,
Speaker 1: he was talking to my sister's tavvy that she was
Speaker 1: glad that she had left, and she had tried so
Speaker 1: hard for so long to work up the courage to believe,
Speaker 1: and that she was really scared to do it, but
Speaker 1: she was glad that she did. Stephanie and Jeff spoke
Speaker 1: with reporter Angeanette Levy and death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan
Speaker 1: and if you think of the details of the case,
Speaker 1: they all signed the custody documents. Should Jake, Hannah or
Speaker 1: George be killed or die, Angela gets custody of the children.
Speaker 1: She sends them out fully knowing my boys and my
Speaker 1: husband and may be killed and I may be taking
Speaker 1: care and raising their children for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1: To carry out this plan. I get chilled up. I
Speaker 1: hadn't even thought of that Internet. That is even more
Speaker 1: demented than I thought, because if she gets custody specifically
Speaker 1: of Jake's daughter that he shared with Hannah, frankly, she
Speaker 1: never had a daughter of her own. Speaking for Angela,
Speaker 1: is this the granddaughter she never had? And is there
Speaker 1: a version of this where the greatest plot is to
Speaker 1: have everybody go away? I think to your point stuff
Speaker 1: the idea that she's not there. I think that's a
Speaker 1: more disgusting level to me that you know, here boys
Speaker 1: go forth and do as I've said at this moment,
Speaker 1: Tom and that that's kind of the impetus behind this.
Speaker 1: And she kind of sends her minions out to do
Speaker 1: this thing for her that she's planned. So again this
Speaker 1: collective attempt, this strong desire con the enterprise to keep
Speaker 1: complete custody and control the minor children. Jake threatened inn
Speaker 1: a baby violence, saying that he would tell her and
Speaker 1: her body would never be found before and again this
Speaker 1: is a collective response. If there is nothing they do
Speaker 1: not even there was private affairs without the consent for
Speaker 1: willingness and participation of the other members of his family
Speaker 1: speaking out for the first time on this podcast is Patricia,
Speaker 1: mother of Tabitha, the ex wife of accused eldest son
Speaker 1: George Wagner, the fourth Patricia's involvement is now known to
Speaker 1: be at the center of the entire case. Yes, I
Speaker 1: think she's guilty as being because I know the demeanor
Speaker 1: of Angelis. She tries to be the loving, fearing mother.
Speaker 1: But if you've seen the side of Angelis that I've seen,
Speaker 1: you could doubt that she was all fake. If you
Speaker 1: could talk to Angela and the first thing you went
Speaker 1: through your mind as well, she's a cannoving bitch. And
Speaker 1: if you had Tabla, that's why Tabsla limb I call
Speaker 1: her to Dane. After Tabby watch leaves George, she couldn't
Speaker 1: take Angela no more. For two years she lived with
Speaker 1: him and was not allowed to have any contact with
Speaker 1: me once whoever, because Angela didn't want her to. They
Speaker 1: even went as far as taking dabs of cell phone
Speaker 1: from her. So it's not hearsafe for me. Tabby wasn't
Speaker 1: afraid of George, Annah wasn't afraid of Jake. They were
Speaker 1: only afraid of Angela. But what we also know is
Speaker 1: that there are new theories that dispel all of these accusations.
Speaker 1: Everybody thinks all the bad stuff happens in the big cities,
Speaker 1: but the devil works everywhere. Could Angela Wagner simply be lying?
Speaker 1: And just who is she? It's impossible to imagine that
Speaker 1: custody is the only thing. And in recent reports an
Speaker 1: interview as we've done, it seems as though there may
Speaker 1: be a larger plot in play. Stop miss a lie.
Speaker 1: I just feel like something is not right. There's like
Speaker 1: a good four or five places that burned out. This
Speaker 1: is one of the biggest pieces of physical evidence that
Speaker 1: we've had thus for There's a lot more secrets to
Speaker 1: uncover in Pike County that involved the Wagner family and
Speaker 1: the Rodent family. They drug the whole family through the mud.
Speaker 1: Not use the mud, they drug us through. Hey, people
Speaker 1: who could not or would not speak out before have
Speaker 1: come out of the woodwork. We know the end. We've
Speaker 1: got some idea what happened in the middle. I want
Speaker 1: to know about the beginning. When did the switch flip
Speaker 1: to where the only resolution was to go and kill
Speaker 1: them all? More on that this season. If you haven't
Speaker 1: listened to seasons one and two, last week's How We
Speaker 1: Got Here episode, We'll Catch You Up. For more information
Speaker 1: on case photos, follow us on Gram at Katie Underscore Studios.
Speaker 1: The Piked and Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane,
Speaker 1: Chris Graves and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed
Speaker 1: by Jeff Tis, music by Jared Aston, audio mixing by
Speaker 1: Ken Novak. The Piked and Massacre is a production of
Speaker 1: Katie Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.