WEBVTT - Mother May I? 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:05.360 The number one podcast is back. They're my relatives. I 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:09.000 still love them. I pray that God forgives them. I 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:11.639 pray that I'll see them in heaven. But here on 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:17.720 earth eternity in jail is not long enough. Eight from 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:21.400 the same family dead in rural southern Ohio. One family 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:25.279 accused of killing members of another family. Just when we 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:27.840 thought we knew what happened during the piked And Massacre, 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:36.600 everything is turned upside down. I just feel like something 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:39.960 is not right. Was this truly about custody. I don't 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:43.000 think he would kill her, but I think he would 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:48.279 kill more her. Now, with childs on the horizon, new 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:51.519 theories arise. There's like a good four or five places 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:54.760 at Burndale. We're told he's lying because they're getting death 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:57.800 threats behind bars. I would sit to the jail house 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:01.160 in Pike County, good book, money on their book, So 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:03.400 it's not years ay for me. Why are we just 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:06.000 learning about this now? This is one of the biggest 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:10.640 pieces of physical evidence that we've had thus for. Just 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:14.000 when we thought it couldn't get any stranger or darker, 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:21.440 it has. This is the Pikes And Massacre, Season three, 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:28.840 Episode one. Mother May I officers wearing body armor guarded 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:32.080 Angela Wagner as she walked into a Pike County courtroom 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:35.080 to admit, after years of denials, that she helped plan 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:39.640 the murders of Hannah Roden and her family. On the 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:43.440 warm and heavily humid afternoon of September tenth, twenty twenty one, 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:48.320 in Pike County, Ohio, accused killer mother Angela Wagner, arrived 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.680 in court. She was wearing black and white striped prison garb, 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:54.880 and her hair, previously short and blonde, now hangs in 0:01:54.880 --> 0:02:01.600 a long brown curtain. Here's Judge Randy Deering. You're admitting 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:10.200 for bargain? Were your wife require beyond reason? Bad? Do 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:15.040 you understand all of those? Right? It's hard to hear, 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:20.239 but that's Angelo Wagner admitting guilt. The mother accused in 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:25.080 Ohio's most complex Amazone investigation has just reached a plea deal. 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:29.359 As part of the deal, the aggravated murder charges against 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:33.320 Wagner were dropped. She also agreed to testify against her 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:39.640 family members. She will spend thirty years in prison and 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:45.799 cannot apply for parole. But the defendant to us understatements 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:51.000 were very visit to April this year in the usual 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:54.600 and her family member is all inspired together to committees 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:58.760 werenic defenses specifically the entry agent homes and for different 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:06.600 vacation in order to kill me that time, Yeah defendant 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:13.680 and the statement they joined recommendation to thirty years in prison. 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:19.400 Anguel Joe Wagoner did unlowly and was pursed to commit 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:23.240 everybody murder was another person who were persons, so her 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:27.400 specific targets of the Wagoners so sadly were killed simply 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:33.839 because they happened to be there. It's not clear which 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.680 of the eight victims were targets and which, as Angie 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.720 Kaneppa said, were killed simply because they happened to be there. 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:43.880 Was there a kill list and if so, were others 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.800 just caught by happenstance In the mayhem of the Wagner's 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:50.800 murder spree, she was aware that night they walked out 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:55.480 on the floor twenty and sixteen, who really were going 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:57.600 and what they were going to do? Maybe tried to 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:02.720 cover up their involvement in ange reference as well, Betters 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:07.160 tressaud Into eighty two wrestlers were found with the attracted Hilda. 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:11.920 In all Angela Wagner pled guilty to fourteen charges, including 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:19.479 conspiracy to commit murder, burglary, possession of firearms, tampering with evidence, forgery, 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:23.320 and engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. We now 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.800 know that the Knight of the murderers, Angela Wagner, was 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:29.400 at home watching her two grandchildren while the others allegedly 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:39.400 went out on a kill Spring Courtney Armstrong a television 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:43.120 producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:46.240 In the three hundred and one days since our last 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:50.280 episode aired, there have been several significant court hearings. The 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:54.680 biggest yet an unexpected appearance by accused killer mother herself, 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:59.000 Angela Wagner. She's the second accused Wagner member to plead out. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.279 You're Stephanie and Jeff speaking with forensic expert Joseph Scott 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:10.920 Morgan and journalist Angeanette Levy about Angela's plea deal. I 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:15.240 was surprised because apparently she's eligible for release after serving 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:19.400 thirty years. So who wouldn't take that because then she 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.880 can possibly and I say possibly, because she may not 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:27.040 live that long one day get out of prison. And 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.880 this is a huge revelation. I mean, for three years 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.840 now we've talked about the four core Wagoners being at 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:35.279 every Rodan home the night of the murders, all potentially 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.200 even being trigger polars, and to find out, Angela is 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.160 now kind of pulling the rug out from under that 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.240 story and saying that she was in fact actually at home, 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.960 presumably watching the children, as her husband and two sons 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:50.200 were out murdering the eight Rodan family members. Is a 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:54.480 big shift in how that night played out. That is 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:58.120 a very low sentence for somebody who, by her own admission, 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.559 is saying that she plotted plan to murder eight people. 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:03.680 I knew full well that they were leaving the house 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:08.560 allegedly to murder that night, so she stayed home in 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:13.120 babysat and just waited for them to get home. My 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.279 thought is, she doesn't have to be in the room 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.520 pulling a trigger here. There have been people that have 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:22.400 gotten the needle over the years for being a planner, 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:26.960 a facilitator, if you will, of a broader arching theme. 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.880 She knows what she's involved in, and she'd better be 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:33.960 thinking her lucky stars. You know, there's thirty years that 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:37.760 she's giving. Maybe she wasn't physically there. She was there though, 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:42.560 I mean It makes you wonder she's out going to 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:44.360 walmarts and by the shoes for her kids to go 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:46.359 do it like how a mom buys her kids shoes 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:49.360 for the first day of school, and now she's getting off, 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.200 probably with the lightest sentence. Did she have the wherewithal 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.760 to see that maybe if I stay home, my hands 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:58.960 are clean or much cleaner than the rest of my family. 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:05.520 If Angela Wagner was looking to protect her family and 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:09.120 her son's daughter, why would she possibly send her sons 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:13.080 out to commit murder, They too could possibly be killed. 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:17.680 You don't have to whitewash this in any way. She 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:20.080 was there, you know. We talked about the boots which 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:22.360 are going to come into play, I think, and we 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:26.000 talked about the weapons that were utilized and how the 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:29.440 setups on those were. She may not have had a 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.760 gun in her hand, but she was there in more 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:39.680 ways than one. It's very possible she is leaving one 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.880 of her sons her dead to take the hit for her. 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:48.520 That's even more demanded. She also was the shopper and 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:52.800 involved in a lot of the planning of this, and 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.480 I can say that now because she's admitted to it. 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.000 You know, she's not accused anymore. She's pleading guilty. Although 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:02.480 one interesting legal point is that Angela and Jake Wagner 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:06.000 have to testify to the satisfaction of the prosecution or 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.040 all four of their death sentences are back on the table. 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:11.680 That means, for an extreme example, if Angela and Jake 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:14.520 plead the fifth or do not testify to something that 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.720 the prosecution believes that they know according to the deal 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:20.720 they've made, this negates the plea deal. What a show 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:24.679 this court appearance will be so for the first time. 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:30.720 Billy Wagner, the accused father, George Wagner, the accused eldest son, 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.320 both now are moving forward with their trials, and ultimately 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:39.560 Jake Wagner, the youngest son, and now mom Angela Wagner, 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.680 will testify against them in front of them ida eye, 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.480 and if the stories don't add up, they all could 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:54.120 be looking at death sentences. It basically means that Angela 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:56.920 and Jake Wagner better bring the goods to the trial. 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.880 According to Angela Wagner's testimony, her family purchased quite a 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:05.679 few things to prepare for this murder. Special shoes from Walmart, ammunition, 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:09.959 a magazine, clip, brass, catchers and a bug detector, and 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.319 a bug detector is something that detects signals admitted from cameras, 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.200 which would help figure out if there were surveillance cameras. 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.240 So there was clearly a lot of thought and preparation 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:21.600 for this murder. This was not a crime of passion. 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:28.559 Here Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa further describing the Wagner's alleged 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:32.800 planning of the murders, specific purchases they made and actions 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:37.360 they took to cover up the crime. The foes retire 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:41.079 together any automicide and defended to a part in that 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.920 as well as making various purchases to accomplish people there 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:47.240 needed to phones of all victids and cameras and others 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:50.960 to be able to Additionally, the destroy those items before 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:55.520 acumis to gain after planning for mass committing automa sides 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.760 and be carrying the commiside out. Four defendend time tri 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:06.400 asking others or to be dishonest with us actually admitted 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:08.839 to purchasings are him relating to the events. Is that 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:10.760 we're meant to help the other pretty good events and 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:14.880 carrying out the crimes. Such a which defends people to 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:17.319 be able to call for help. The thought of the 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:22.520 jammers is so horrifying. I mean, the forethought that would 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:26.400 go into disabling the Rodents family's phones so that they 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:28.760 wouldn't be able to call for help as they were 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:33.880 being shot to death is really just a very scary visual. 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:41.240 Can you imagine horror hits your house. You're fighting for 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:45.000 your life, the people you love are being murdered, and 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.000 the murderers are coming for you next, and you can 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:50.840 finally get to the phone, and now the phones are 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.760 jammed and you can't even call nine one one. It's 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:57.599 anybody's worst nightmare. It's a nightmare scenario and then a 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:02.880 nightmare within that. We know, for example, little Chris was 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:06.360 able to hide for some time during the murders. It 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:08.400 makes you wonder did he have access to a cell 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:10.599 phone or a house phone and tried to call for 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.960 help And couldn't you get through the scariest thought imaginable. 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:18.240 When we first started covering this, it was like, you know, 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:20.560 Ninja's in the night and it was all no one 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:24.040 could possibly figure out who did this? They were so skilled? 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:27.040 Whoever did this murder? Now we know it's pretty sloppy. 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:29.920 Did they just get lucky for two years. There were 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.280 shell casings left at the scene. That's how these people 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.199 get caught. They make mistakes, they don't cover all of 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:38.800 their tracks. This is one of the biggest murder cases 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:44.120 in Ohio's history, if not the biggest. So here we 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:48.400 are two plea deals, many motions, and two remaining trials ahead. 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.520 Is it possible that Angela Wagner orchestrated the plan to 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:57.240 murder other mothers in front of their children? And if so, 0:11:57.720 --> 0:11:59.880 how could a mother create a plan that would turn 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:05.600 her own sons into killers. Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.720 remembers driving past the house where the Wagner family lived. 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:14.160 I remember traveling out to that home that they all shared, 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:17.800 that farmhouse. It made me think, you know, for that 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.280 moment time when I'm you know, traveling through that little 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:22.559 lane in front of the home, you sit there and 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.280 you kind of consider it, you know. I remember slowing 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:27.040 down the car and just kind of staring at it, 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.520 looking at it, you know, set there and that it's 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.640 a beautiful backdrop, you know, the fence and the greenery 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.440 behind it, and you're thinking about, you know, what kind 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.440 of plannings going on around the kitchen table. They're all 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:43.760 party to this, and it just becomes absolutely insidious. And 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.559 it seemed impossible to imagine that they were having murderer meetings. 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:50.959 We were speculating about that and it seemed impossible. But 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:53.000 now we do know that to be a matter of fact, 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:55.960 if we believe everything that's been said so far by 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:03.040 Jake and Angela. Yeah, I agree. You start talking about conspiracy, 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.400 you gotta have a meeting. You know, you gotta have 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:10.920 a meeting. It's a collaborative effort. You know, they had meetings. 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:12.760 Trust me. I don't know if anybody get minutes, but 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:20.440 they had meetings. Unique to this case is that there 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:24.839 are so many mothers involved on all sides. Three mothers 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.320 were murdered that night, including beloved matriarch, thirty seven year 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:32.480 old victim Dana Roden. Dana Roden was returning home from 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:34.800 working a double shift as a nurse that faithful night. 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:38.719 She was shot five times in the head, four in 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:40.959 the side of the head, and once under her chin. 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.319 Dana Roden lived on Union Hill Road with her nineteen 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:52.079 year old daughter, victim Hanname Roden. Hanname Roden shared a 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.800 two and a half year old daughter with admitted murderer 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.400 Jake Wagner. This child is said to be at the 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:02.920 center of this story. Hannah may Rodin had also given 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.920 birth just five days prior and was holding her newborn 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:11.360 when she was shot twice in the head. We should 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:15.559 remind you that there are two Hannah's in this story. Admittedly, 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:18.320 we know the least about mother and victim, twenty year 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:22.680 old Hannah Gilly. She had long blonde hair, were dark 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:27.880 framed eyeglasses, and hoped to start a daycare. She and 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.280 her fiance eldest son and victim Frankie Rodin, were murdered 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.320 in their bed in front of their six month old 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:37.120 and Frankie's three year old son. The children were found 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:46.880 alive at the scenes. Hannah Gilly was shot five times 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:51.560 in the head, once through the eye. To add another 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.840 layer to that that's already complicated story, Hannah Gilly was 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:58.840 the sister of Charlie Gilly. Charlie Gilly was the guy 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.360 Hannah may Rodin started dating after her split from Jake Wagner. 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:07.360 So the relationship between Hannah Gilly's brother, Charlie Gilly, and 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:11.680 Hannah may Roden feels significant to the story because it 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.640 was the first relationship that Hannah Rodin really got into 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:19.080 after her split from Jake Wagner. And of course there's 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:21.160 no way to know this for sure, or at least 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:23.920 until the trials happened, but it makes you wonder if 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:27.720 Hannah Gilly was shot so many times five to be specific, 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.920 because Jake Wagner felt some type of way about her 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:39.440 brother's relationship with Hannah May We're going to take a break. 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:49.000 We'll be back in a moment. On May second, twenty 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.520 twenty two, a mere three weeks before this episode is airing, 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:57.520 there was another court appearance. This was emotions hearing between 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:01.520 the prosecution, an accused old son George Wagner the fourth 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:06.960 defense team. It's the latest turn in Ohio's largest homicide investigation. 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:10.280 Attorneys for George Wagner the Fourth say there is proof 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:14.200 he did not kill any of the eight victims. Attorneys 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:16.840 for the oldest Wagner's son are now asking for murder 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:23.440 charges to be dropped. The hearing revealed even more details 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:26.200 of the Wagner's time leading up to the murders, the 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:30.800 night itself, and the aftermath. There was a specific focus 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:33.680 on how the Wagner family treated women who entered their fold, 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:38.560 beginning with victim Hanname Rodin, Jake Wagner's former girlfriend and 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.880 mother of his child. The court lays out how Hanname 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:46.800 was manipulated, abused, and controlled all but Angela at the helm. 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:56.440 Thank you. This is State of Ohio playtoff versus George 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:01.040 Washington Wagner the fourth defender. The case number eighteen's one 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:06.240 fifty five. Today's May second, twenty twenty two, and this 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.480 today hearing. We'd have a hearing schedule one motions. Today 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:15.440 the defendant was present in court. Attorneys, the record should 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:17.720 reflect to the defendish appearing to day, and so though 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:24.040 you clothed in visible restraints. The five foot nine George 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.680 Wagner the Fourth is thickly built, with green eyes and 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:30.000 thinning brown hair. He wears the same clothes to each 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:33.480 court appearance, a button down with a black vest over it. 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:38.320 George Wagner sits flanked by his two attorneys, largely keeping 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.280 his eyes lowered to the desk in front of him. 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:47.200 Here again, Special Prosecutor Ajakanepa, I should talk about what 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:51.200 we believe people were arching think of this criminal enterprise. 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.520 It's kind of the all for one and one raw right, 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:58.000 they functioned as a family unit, so part of that 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:02.399 was control over the two grandchildren in the next the 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:08.360 defendant son and Jake Starr also when Jake hold would 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:12.000 be this unborn child at the time, so in their 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:14.800 reaction to when they lose control of that. There obviously 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:19.320 also was some financial purpose behind some of what they did. Right, 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.960 they were homeschooled, very insular who did not have people 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.520 going off and doing things on their own. So as 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:29.560 far as the defendant and the relationship with Hannah, this 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:36.879 involves divesting violence towards Hannah. When we look back at 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:39.919 Hanname Roden's social media posts in the months leading up 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:42.920 to her murder, it's clear she was crying out for help. 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:47.880 In one post, she states quote end domestic violence, live 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:52.440 a happier life here again Angie Kneppa, further outlining the 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.280 length the Wagoners went through to attempt to secure Hanname 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:59.159 Roden's child. We do have admissions on the part of 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:03.240 Jay as to pushing her up against a wall and 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.560 basically having his arm in a position that it was 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:10.800 choking her airways. We have witnesses to him chasing her 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.600 in a vehicle after getting upset with her one day, 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.680 his controlling nature towards Hannah, including but not limited to 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:22.440 dictating every aspect in regard to their shared child. That 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:30.000 continued writing up until Hannah was killed. His controlling nature 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.800 towards Hannah regarding the second child, including but not limited 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.200 to telling her not to disclose the child's pactual father 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:41.040 that it was his child. Because Hannah was very forthright 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.119 with Jake and told him that it was not his child, 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:50.240 he tried to get her to agree to not tell 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:54.480 the actual father that the child was that person's child, 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:57.200 offering to give her money to put his name on 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:00.359 their certificate, trying to give vince her to move to 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:03.920 Alaska with the whole family, and suggesting that they raise 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:08.119 that child offside sheer child, as if the child was 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:14.920 the defendant. The father of the baby, Angie Kneppa is 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.960 referring to as Charlie Gilly, who had just heard about 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:22.400 Charlie Gilly dated hannahme rodin the summer before she was murdered. 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:25.399 He was later proven to be the father of her 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:36.480 five day old. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. This is the 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:40.119 story as old as time, and we hear it a 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:47.320 lot Unfortunately, jealousy plus rage often equals death, and this 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:55.000 case seems to be no different in that regard. Honestly, 0:20:55.119 --> 0:20:57.720 it's a young mom. How do you murder somebody in 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:01.320 that way straight to the face. It seems as though 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:08.960 there has to be something more personal to this, you know. 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.240 We recently came across some personal photographs that were shared 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:16.280 with us, one of which is particularly haunting. It shows 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:19.639 Hannah May rodin in the hospital right after a giving 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:23.600 birth to her baby. She's sitting on her hospital bed 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:28.560 next to her father, also victim, Chris Roden Senior, and 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:34.440 she's holding her baby and wedge between them is now 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:39.160 who we know to be a murderer, Jake Wagner, sitting 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:45.760 between them, and he is smiling ear to ear as 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:49.000 though in a family photo, as if with his father 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:51.400 in law and the love of his life, Hannah May. 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:53.800 And really the truth of this photo is that he 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:56.520 was going to kill Hannah May, her father, and her 0:21:56.800 --> 0:22:04.680 entire family. And that's the part that you just can't grasp. 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:13.679 He had different plans for everybody involved, and the photo 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:16.480 you can see in their eyes that this is not 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:20.240 a genuine moment that anyone is enjoying other than Jake Wagner, 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:23.000 which is just very tragic knowing what we know is 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:31.600 to calm or this family here again Special Prosecutor Angie Kneppa. 0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:35.960 So they had actual people that lived near her reporting 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:39.760 back is the Randian or men around or etc. And 0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:43.000 they would be cor back to Jake again. Jake's occession 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:44.639 with Hannah wanting to get back with her and me 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:48.560 and jealous of relationship with over males, and as we 0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:51.160 indicated to the Court and honor, this was very reminiscent 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:53.879 of what George did with the mother of his trild. 0:22:56.080 --> 0:22:59.840 George Wagner's ex wife was a woman named Tabitha. Together, 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:04.440 Tabitha and George Wagner had a baby boy, Angela. Wagner 0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:06.879 fought tooth and nail to ensure she was in charge 0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:10.920 of the son, so much that she emotionally tormented Tabitha 0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:14.800 until the young woman snapped and gave up custody to 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:21.359 the Wagner family. We first heard about this abusive relationship 0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:24.160 that Tabitha had with the Wagner family when we met 0:23:24.440 --> 0:23:27.520 her sister Christina and mother Patricia a few years ago 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:30.439 in a trip that we took to Pike County, Ohio. 0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:34.480 When we were there in Pike County, it was pretty 0:23:34.480 --> 0:23:38.800 clear this was a pattern. Tabitha was the first target, 0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:43.440 and she was scared enough that she actually turned over 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:46.200 the rights of her son to the Wagner family, and 0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:51.040 that perhaps the Wagners were at it again, and because 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:54.840 the Rodent family was fighting this custody that that's maybe 0:23:54.920 --> 0:24:02.119 why their lives were taken. We were there shooting a 0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:06.800 documentary for NBC's Oxygen Network called The Rodin Family Murders, 0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:09.680 and when we started speaking to people who knew the 0:24:09.760 --> 0:24:13.639 Wagner family, what we uncovered was a pattern, a pattern 0:24:13.720 --> 0:24:16.880 of not only abuse, but a pattern of the Wagner 0:24:16.960 --> 0:24:20.960 family being obsessed with control of custody. And so while 0:24:21.000 --> 0:24:23.080 we all thought hannah Me Rodin was the first victim 0:24:23.119 --> 0:24:25.080 of this, it turns out that was not the case, 0:24:25.720 --> 0:24:29.240 and that this other family felt as if they too 0:24:29.960 --> 0:24:36.000 were the victims of the Wagner's obsession with control. And 0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:39.040 I think it's worth noting that hannah Me Rodin and 0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:43.200 Tabitha where would be sister in laws, they were also 0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:48.200 really close friends and allies, and ultimately they were both 0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:52.600 alleged victims of the exact same family of abusers, the Wagners. 0:24:57.680 --> 0:25:00.720 Tabitha's sister spoke to us at length last reason, and 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:04.320 now for the first time ever, her mother, Patricia, has 0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:07.560 also agreed to speak on the podcast as well. And 0:25:07.760 --> 0:25:11.680 keep in mind, we now know that Tabitha's mother, Patricia 0:25:12.200 --> 0:25:15.800 is really at the center of the trials ahead. What 0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:18.520 we found is that their lives also may have been 0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:22.080 in jeopardy had Tabitha not signed away her rights to 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:25.840 the Wagner family. It seems like it might have been 0:25:25.920 --> 0:25:30.240 possible that they too could have been murdered. It's a 0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:36.119 very chilling thought. Again, Angie Kaneppa on the Wagner's mistreatment 0:25:36.200 --> 0:25:39.560 of Tabitha. They would meet as a family and take 0:25:39.680 --> 0:25:42.040 votes before they decided what they would do. That would 0:25:42.119 --> 0:25:44.240 range from where they were going to live down to 0:25:44.880 --> 0:25:48.800 the most intimate details between a husband and wife, for instance, 0:25:49.200 --> 0:25:54.119 intimate relations between George and Tabitha. Angela involved herself in that, 0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:57.640 so there was literally nothing that was off limits. Everything 0:25:57.760 --> 0:26:02.040 was done as a family unit. Let sinking. Angela Wagner 0:26:02.200 --> 0:26:05.359 was even involved in the most intimate details between a 0:26:05.480 --> 0:26:12.760 husband and wife. They ultimately made the mother of George's 0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:18.080 child signed over entire custody to George with the agreement 0:26:18.200 --> 0:26:22.480 that Tabitha could visit the child if and when the 0:26:22.600 --> 0:26:29.159 Wagner said that she could. Angela has admitted that she 0:26:29.400 --> 0:26:32.119 was the one having in social media that the reason 0:26:32.240 --> 0:26:36.200 she was paying so close attention to Tabitha's Facebook was 0:26:36.280 --> 0:26:40.760 because Tabitha was making noise about taking them to court 0:26:41.000 --> 0:26:46.040 to finally get standard visitation with her child that she 0:26:46.160 --> 0:26:48.840 had never been able to receive. So that was the 0:26:49.000 --> 0:26:51.920 reason they were doing that. But they just happened to 0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:58.240 see the conversation between Hannah and Tabitha's mother. This is 0:26:58.240 --> 0:27:01.119 a level of control that she has over her adult 0:27:01.200 --> 0:27:09.119 sons that is unparalleled. In Summer two, the teens and 0:27:09.200 --> 0:27:11.680 the private Facebook message to show that a person telling 0:27:11.720 --> 0:27:14.520 them that she did overside papers and people have to 0:27:14.600 --> 0:27:18.280 tell me nurist was first seen by Angela teaching the 0:27:18.359 --> 0:27:21.240 Squeech later Journey to Jade and the other Handily members. 0:27:23.400 --> 0:27:26.000 In this moment, while illegally spying on her daughter in 0:27:26.080 --> 0:27:30.119 law's social media, Angela Wagner intercepts a message from Hanname 0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:34.280