1 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: The number one podcast is back. They're my relatives. I 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: still love them. I pray that God forgives them. I 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: pray that I'll see them in heaven. But here on 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: earth eternity in jail is not long enough. Eight from 5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: the same family dead in rural southern Ohio. One family 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: accused of killing members of another family. Just when we 7 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: thought we knew what happened during the piked And Massacre, 8 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: everything is turned upside down. I just feel like something 9 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: is not right. Was this truly about custody. I don't 10 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: think he would kill her, but I think he would 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:48,279 Speaker 1: kill more her. Now, with childs on the horizon, new 12 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: theories arise. There's like a good four or five places 13 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: at Burndale. We're told he's lying because they're getting death 14 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: threats behind bars. I would sit to the jail house 15 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: in Pike County, good book, money on their book, So 16 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: it's not years ay for me. Why are we just 17 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: learning about this now? This is one of the biggest 18 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: pieces of physical evidence that we've had thus for. Just 19 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: when we thought it couldn't get any stranger or darker, 20 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: it has. This is the Pikes And Massacre, Season three, 21 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: Episode one. Mother May I officers wearing body armor guarded 22 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: Angela Wagner as she walked into a Pike County courtroom 23 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: to admit, after years of denials, that she helped plan 24 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: the murders of Hannah Roden and her family. On the 25 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: warm and heavily humid afternoon of September tenth, twenty twenty one, 26 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: in Pike County, Ohio, accused killer mother Angela Wagner, arrived 27 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: in court. She was wearing black and white striped prison garb, 28 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: and her hair, previously short and blonde, now hangs in 29 00:01:54,880 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: a long brown curtain. Here's Judge Randy Deering. You're admitting 30 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: for bargain? Were your wife require beyond reason? Bad? Do 31 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: you understand all of those? Right? It's hard to hear, 32 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:20,239 Speaker 1: but that's Angelo Wagner admitting guilt. The mother accused in 33 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: Ohio's most complex Amazone investigation has just reached a plea deal. 34 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 1: As part of the deal, the aggravated murder charges against 35 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: Wagner were dropped. She also agreed to testify against her 36 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: family members. She will spend thirty years in prison and 37 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: cannot apply for parole. But the defendant to us understatements 38 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: were very visit to April this year in the usual 39 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: and her family member is all inspired together to committees 40 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: werenic defenses specifically the entry agent homes and for different 41 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: vacation in order to kill me that time, Yeah defendant 42 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: and the statement they joined recommendation to thirty years in prison. 43 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: Anguel Joe Wagoner did unlowly and was pursed to commit 44 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: everybody murder was another person who were persons, so her 45 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: specific targets of the Wagoners so sadly were killed simply 46 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:33,839 Speaker 1: because they happened to be there. It's not clear which 47 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: of the eight victims were targets and which, as Angie 48 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: Kaneppa said, were killed simply because they happened to be there. 49 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: Was there a kill list and if so, were others 50 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: just caught by happenstance In the mayhem of the Wagner's 51 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: murder spree, she was aware that night they walked out 52 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: on the floor twenty and sixteen, who really were going 53 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: and what they were going to do? Maybe tried to 54 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: cover up their involvement in ange reference as well, Betters 55 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: tressaud Into eighty two wrestlers were found with the attracted Hilda. 56 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: In all Angela Wagner pled guilty to fourteen charges, including 57 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: conspiracy to commit murder, burglary, possession of firearms, tampering with evidence, forgery, 58 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: and engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. We now 59 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: know that the Knight of the murderers, Angela Wagner, was 60 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: at home watching her two grandchildren while the others allegedly 61 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: went out on a kill Spring Courtney Armstrong a television 62 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. 63 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: In the three hundred and one days since our last 64 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 1: episode aired, there have been several significant court hearings. The 65 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: biggest yet an unexpected appearance by accused killer mother herself, 66 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: Angela Wagner. She's the second accused Wagner member to plead out. 67 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 1: You're Stephanie and Jeff speaking with forensic expert Joseph Scott 68 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: Morgan and journalist Angeanette Levy about Angela's plea deal. I 69 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: was surprised because apparently she's eligible for release after serving 70 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: thirty years. So who wouldn't take that because then she 71 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: can possibly and I say possibly, because she may not 72 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: live that long one day get out of prison. And 73 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: this is a huge revelation. I mean, for three years 74 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: now we've talked about the four core Wagoners being at 75 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: every Rodan home the night of the murders, all potentially 76 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: even being trigger polars, and to find out, Angela is 77 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: now kind of pulling the rug out from under that 78 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: story and saying that she was in fact actually at home, 79 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: presumably watching the children, as her husband and two sons 80 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: were out murdering the eight Rodan family members. Is a 81 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 1: big shift in how that night played out. That is 82 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: a very low sentence for somebody who, by her own admission, 83 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,559 Speaker 1: is saying that she plotted plan to murder eight people. 84 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: I knew full well that they were leaving the house 85 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: allegedly to murder that night, so she stayed home in 86 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: babysat and just waited for them to get home. My 87 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 1: thought is, she doesn't have to be in the room 88 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: pulling a trigger here. There have been people that have 89 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: gotten the needle over the years for being a planner, 90 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: a facilitator, if you will, of a broader arching theme. 91 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: She knows what she's involved in, and she'd better be 92 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: thinking her lucky stars. You know, there's thirty years that 93 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: she's giving. Maybe she wasn't physically there. She was there though, 94 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: I mean It makes you wonder she's out going to 95 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: walmarts and by the shoes for her kids to go 96 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,359 Speaker 1: do it like how a mom buys her kids shoes 97 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: for the first day of school, and now she's getting off, 98 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: probably with the lightest sentence. Did she have the wherewithal 99 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: to see that maybe if I stay home, my hands 100 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: are clean or much cleaner than the rest of my family. 101 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: If Angela Wagner was looking to protect her family and 102 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: her son's daughter, why would she possibly send her sons 103 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: out to commit murder, They too could possibly be killed. 104 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: You don't have to whitewash this in any way. She 105 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: was there, you know. We talked about the boots which 106 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: are going to come into play, I think, and we 107 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: talked about the weapons that were utilized and how the 108 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: setups on those were. She may not have had a 109 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: gun in her hand, but she was there in more 110 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: ways than one. It's very possible she is leaving one 111 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: of her sons her dead to take the hit for her. 112 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: That's even more demanded. She also was the shopper and 113 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: involved in a lot of the planning of this, and 114 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: I can say that now because she's admitted to it. 115 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: You know, she's not accused anymore. She's pleading guilty. Although 116 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: one interesting legal point is that Angela and Jake Wagner 117 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: have to testify to the satisfaction of the prosecution or 118 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: all four of their death sentences are back on the table. 119 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: That means, for an extreme example, if Angela and Jake 120 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: plead the fifth or do not testify to something that 121 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: the prosecution believes that they know according to the deal 122 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: they've made, this negates the plea deal. What a show 123 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,679 Speaker 1: this court appearance will be so for the first time. 124 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, the accused father, George Wagner, the accused eldest son, 125 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: both now are moving forward with their trials, and ultimately 126 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner, the youngest son, and now mom Angela Wagner, 127 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: will testify against them in front of them ida eye, 128 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: and if the stories don't add up, they all could 129 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: be looking at death sentences. It basically means that Angela 130 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: and Jake Wagner better bring the goods to the trial. 131 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: According to Angela Wagner's testimony, her family purchased quite a 132 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 1: few things to prepare for this murder. Special shoes from Walmart, ammunition, 133 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,959 Speaker 1: a magazine, clip, brass, catchers and a bug detector, and 134 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: a bug detector is something that detects signals admitted from cameras, 135 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: which would help figure out if there were surveillance cameras. 136 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: So there was clearly a lot of thought and preparation 137 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: for this murder. This was not a crime of passion. 138 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: Here Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa further describing the Wagner's alleged 139 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: planning of the murders, specific purchases they made and actions 140 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: they took to cover up the crime. The foes retire 141 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 1: together any automicide and defended to a part in that 142 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: as well as making various purchases to accomplish people there 143 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: needed to phones of all victids and cameras and others 144 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: to be able to Additionally, the destroy those items before 145 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: acumis to gain after planning for mass committing automa sides 146 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: and be carrying the commiside out. Four defendend time tri 147 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: asking others or to be dishonest with us actually admitted 148 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 1: to purchasings are him relating to the events. Is that 149 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: we're meant to help the other pretty good events and 150 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: carrying out the crimes. Such a which defends people to 151 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 1: be able to call for help. The thought of the 152 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: jammers is so horrifying. I mean, the forethought that would 153 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: go into disabling the Rodents family's phones so that they 154 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to call for help as they were 155 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: being shot to death is really just a very scary visual. 156 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: Can you imagine horror hits your house. You're fighting for 157 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: your life, the people you love are being murdered, and 158 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: the murderers are coming for you next, and you can 159 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: finally get to the phone, and now the phones are 160 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: jammed and you can't even call nine one one. It's 161 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,599 Speaker 1: anybody's worst nightmare. It's a nightmare scenario and then a 162 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: nightmare within that. We know, for example, little Chris was 163 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: able to hide for some time during the murders. It 164 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: makes you wonder did he have access to a cell 165 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,599 Speaker 1: phone or a house phone and tried to call for 166 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: help And couldn't you get through the scariest thought imaginable. 167 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: When we first started covering this, it was like, you know, 168 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: Ninja's in the night and it was all no one 169 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: could possibly figure out who did this? They were so skilled? 170 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: Whoever did this murder? Now we know it's pretty sloppy. 171 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: Did they just get lucky for two years. There were 172 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: shell casings left at the scene. That's how these people 173 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 1: get caught. They make mistakes, they don't cover all of 174 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: their tracks. This is one of the biggest murder cases 175 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: in Ohio's history, if not the biggest. So here we 176 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: are two plea deals, many motions, and two remaining trials ahead. 177 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: Is it possible that Angela Wagner orchestrated the plan to 178 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: murder other mothers in front of their children? And if so, 179 00:11:57,720 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: how could a mother create a plan that would turn 180 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: her own sons into killers. Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan 181 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: remembers driving past the house where the Wagner family lived. 182 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: I remember traveling out to that home that they all shared, 183 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: that farmhouse. It made me think, you know, for that 184 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: moment time when I'm you know, traveling through that little 185 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 1: lane in front of the home, you sit there and 186 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: you kind of consider it, you know. I remember slowing 187 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: down the car and just kind of staring at it, 188 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: looking at it, you know, set there and that it's 189 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: a beautiful backdrop, you know, the fence and the greenery 190 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: behind it, and you're thinking about, you know, what kind 191 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: of plannings going on around the kitchen table. They're all 192 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: party to this, and it just becomes absolutely insidious. And 193 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: it seemed impossible to imagine that they were having murderer meetings. 194 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 1: We were speculating about that and it seemed impossible. But 195 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: now we do know that to be a matter of fact, 196 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: if we believe everything that's been said so far by 197 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: Jake and Angela. Yeah, I agree. You start talking about conspiracy, 198 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: you gotta have a meeting. You know, you gotta have 199 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: a meeting. It's a collaborative effort. You know, they had meetings. 200 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: Trust me. I don't know if anybody get minutes, but 201 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: they had meetings. Unique to this case is that there 202 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,839 Speaker 1: are so many mothers involved on all sides. Three mothers 203 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: were murdered that night, including beloved matriarch, thirty seven year 204 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: old victim Dana Roden. Dana Roden was returning home from 205 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: working a double shift as a nurse that faithful night. 206 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,719 Speaker 1: She was shot five times in the head, four in 207 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:40,959 Speaker 1: the side of the head, and once under her chin. 208 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 1: Dana Roden lived on Union Hill Road with her nineteen 209 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 1: year old daughter, victim Hanname Roden. Hanname Roden shared a 210 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: two and a half year old daughter with admitted murderer 211 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner. This child is said to be at the 212 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: center of this story. Hannah may Rodin had also given 213 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: birth just five days prior and was holding her newborn 214 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: when she was shot twice in the head. We should 215 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 1: remind you that there are two Hannah's in this story. Admittedly, 216 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: we know the least about mother and victim, twenty year 217 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: old Hannah Gilly. She had long blonde hair, were dark 218 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: framed eyeglasses, and hoped to start a daycare. She and 219 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: her fiance eldest son and victim Frankie Rodin, were murdered 220 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: in their bed in front of their six month old 221 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: and Frankie's three year old son. The children were found 222 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: alive at the scenes. Hannah Gilly was shot five times 223 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: in the head, once through the eye. To add another 224 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: layer to that that's already complicated story, Hannah Gilly was 225 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: the sister of Charlie Gilly. Charlie Gilly was the guy 226 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: Hannah may Rodin started dating after her split from Jake Wagner. 227 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: So the relationship between Hannah Gilly's brother, Charlie Gilly, and 228 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: Hannah may Roden feels significant to the story because it 229 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: was the first relationship that Hannah Rodin really got into 230 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: after her split from Jake Wagner. And of course there's 231 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: no way to know this for sure, or at least 232 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: until the trials happened, but it makes you wonder if 233 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: Hannah Gilly was shot so many times five to be specific, 234 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: because Jake Wagner felt some type of way about her 235 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: brother's relationship with Hannah May We're going to take a break. 236 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. On May second, twenty 237 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: twenty two, a mere three weeks before this episode is airing, 238 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: there was another court appearance. This was emotions hearing between 239 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: the prosecution, an accused old son George Wagner the fourth 240 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: defense team. It's the latest turn in Ohio's largest homicide investigation. 241 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: Attorneys for George Wagner the Fourth say there is proof 242 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: he did not kill any of the eight victims. Attorneys 243 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: for the oldest Wagner's son are now asking for murder 244 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: charges to be dropped. The hearing revealed even more details 245 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: of the Wagner's time leading up to the murders, the 246 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: night itself, and the aftermath. There was a specific focus 247 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: on how the Wagner family treated women who entered their fold, 248 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: beginning with victim Hanname Rodin, Jake Wagner's former girlfriend and 249 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: mother of his child. The court lays out how Hanname 250 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: was manipulated, abused, and controlled all but Angela at the helm. 251 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: Thank you. This is State of Ohio playtoff versus George 252 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: Washington Wagner the fourth defender. The case number eighteen's one 253 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: fifty five. Today's May second, twenty twenty two, and this 254 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: today hearing. We'd have a hearing schedule one motions. Today 255 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: the defendant was present in court. Attorneys, the record should 256 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: reflect to the defendish appearing to day, and so though 257 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: you clothed in visible restraints. The five foot nine George 258 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: Wagner the Fourth is thickly built, with green eyes and 259 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: thinning brown hair. He wears the same clothes to each 260 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: court appearance, a button down with a black vest over it. 261 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: George Wagner sits flanked by his two attorneys, largely keeping 262 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: his eyes lowered to the desk in front of him. 263 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: Here again, Special Prosecutor Ajakanepa, I should talk about what 264 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: we believe people were arching think of this criminal enterprise. 265 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: It's kind of the all for one and one raw right, 266 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: they functioned as a family unit, so part of that 267 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: was control over the two grandchildren in the next the 268 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 1: defendant son and Jake Starr also when Jake hold would 269 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: be this unborn child at the time, so in their 270 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: reaction to when they lose control of that. There obviously 271 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: also was some financial purpose behind some of what they did. Right, 272 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: they were homeschooled, very insular who did not have people 273 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: going off and doing things on their own. So as 274 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: far as the defendant and the relationship with Hannah, this 275 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: involves divesting violence towards Hannah. When we look back at 276 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: Hanname Roden's social media posts in the months leading up 277 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 1: to her murder, it's clear she was crying out for help. 278 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: In one post, she states quote end domestic violence, live 279 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: a happier life here again Angie Kneppa, further outlining the 280 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: length the Wagoners went through to attempt to secure Hanname 281 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: Roden's child. We do have admissions on the part of 282 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: Jay as to pushing her up against a wall and 283 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: basically having his arm in a position that it was 284 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: choking her airways. We have witnesses to him chasing her 285 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: in a vehicle after getting upset with her one day, 286 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: his controlling nature towards Hannah, including but not limited to 287 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: dictating every aspect in regard to their shared child. That 288 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: continued writing up until Hannah was killed. His controlling nature 289 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: towards Hannah regarding the second child, including but not limited 290 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: to telling her not to disclose the child's pactual father 291 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: that it was his child. Because Hannah was very forthright 292 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 1: with Jake and told him that it was not his child, 293 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: he tried to get her to agree to not tell 294 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: the actual father that the child was that person's child, 295 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: offering to give her money to put his name on 296 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: their certificate, trying to give vince her to move to 297 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: Alaska with the whole family, and suggesting that they raise 298 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: that child offside sheer child, as if the child was 299 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: the defendant. The father of the baby, Angie Kneppa is 300 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: referring to as Charlie Gilly, who had just heard about 301 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 1: Charlie Gilly dated hannahme rodin the summer before she was murdered. 302 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: He was later proven to be the father of her 303 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: five day old. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. This is the 304 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 1: story as old as time, and we hear it a 305 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: lot Unfortunately, jealousy plus rage often equals death, and this 306 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: case seems to be no different in that regard. Honestly, 307 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: it's a young mom. How do you murder somebody in 308 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: that way straight to the face. It seems as though 309 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: there has to be something more personal to this, you know. 310 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: We recently came across some personal photographs that were shared 311 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: with us, one of which is particularly haunting. It shows 312 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: Hannah May rodin in the hospital right after a giving 313 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: birth to her baby. She's sitting on her hospital bed 314 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: next to her father, also victim, Chris Roden Senior, and 315 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: she's holding her baby and wedge between them is now 316 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: who we know to be a murderer, Jake Wagner, sitting 317 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: between them, and he is smiling ear to ear as 318 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: though in a family photo, as if with his father 319 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: in law and the love of his life, Hannah May. 320 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: And really the truth of this photo is that he 321 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: was going to kill Hannah May, her father, and her 322 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: entire family. And that's the part that you just can't grasp. 323 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:13,679 Speaker 1: He had different plans for everybody involved, and the photo 324 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: you can see in their eyes that this is not 325 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: a genuine moment that anyone is enjoying other than Jake Wagner, 326 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: which is just very tragic knowing what we know is 327 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: to calm or this family here again Special Prosecutor Angie Kneppa. 328 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: So they had actual people that lived near her reporting 329 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: back is the Randian or men around or etc. And 330 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: they would be cor back to Jake again. Jake's occession 331 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: with Hannah wanting to get back with her and me 332 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: and jealous of relationship with over males, and as we 333 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 1: indicated to the Court and honor, this was very reminiscent 334 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: of what George did with the mother of his trild. 335 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: George Wagner's ex wife was a woman named Tabitha. Together, 336 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: Tabitha and George Wagner had a baby boy, Angela. Wagner 337 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: fought tooth and nail to ensure she was in charge 338 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: of the son, so much that she emotionally tormented Tabitha 339 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: until the young woman snapped and gave up custody to 340 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: the Wagner family. We first heard about this abusive relationship 341 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: that Tabitha had with the Wagner family when we met 342 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: her sister Christina and mother Patricia a few years ago 343 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: in a trip that we took to Pike County, Ohio. 344 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: When we were there in Pike County, it was pretty 345 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: clear this was a pattern. Tabitha was the first target, 346 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: and she was scared enough that she actually turned over 347 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 1: the rights of her son to the Wagner family, and 348 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: that perhaps the Wagners were at it again, and because 349 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: the Rodent family was fighting this custody that that's maybe 350 00:23:54,920 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: why their lives were taken. We were there shooting a 351 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: documentary for NBC's Oxygen Network called The Rodin Family Murders, 352 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: and when we started speaking to people who knew the 353 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: Wagner family, what we uncovered was a pattern, a pattern 354 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 1: of not only abuse, but a pattern of the Wagner 355 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: family being obsessed with control of custody. And so while 356 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: we all thought hannah Me Rodin was the first victim 357 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: of this, it turns out that was not the case, 358 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: and that this other family felt as if they too 359 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: were the victims of the Wagner's obsession with control. And 360 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: I think it's worth noting that hannah Me Rodin and 361 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: Tabitha where would be sister in laws, they were also 362 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: really close friends and allies, and ultimately they were both 363 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: alleged victims of the exact same family of abusers, the Wagners. 364 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: Tabitha's sister spoke to us at length last reason, and 365 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: now for the first time ever, her mother, Patricia, has 366 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: also agreed to speak on the podcast as well. And 367 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: keep in mind, we now know that Tabitha's mother, Patricia 368 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: is really at the center of the trials ahead. What 369 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: we found is that their lives also may have been 370 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: in jeopardy had Tabitha not signed away her rights to 371 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: the Wagner family. It seems like it might have been 372 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: possible that they too could have been murdered. It's a 373 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: very chilling thought. Again, Angie Kaneppa on the Wagner's mistreatment 374 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: of Tabitha. They would meet as a family and take 375 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: votes before they decided what they would do. That would 376 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: range from where they were going to live down to 377 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: the most intimate details between a husband and wife, for instance, 378 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: intimate relations between George and Tabitha. Angela involved herself in that, 379 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 1: so there was literally nothing that was off limits. Everything 380 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: was done as a family unit. Let sinking. Angela Wagner 381 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: was even involved in the most intimate details between a 382 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: husband and wife. They ultimately made the mother of George's 383 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: child signed over entire custody to George with the agreement 384 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: that Tabitha could visit the child if and when the 385 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 1: Wagner said that she could. Angela has admitted that she 386 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: was the one having in social media that the reason 387 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: she was paying so close attention to Tabitha's Facebook was 388 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: because Tabitha was making noise about taking them to court 389 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: to finally get standard visitation with her child that she 390 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: had never been able to receive. So that was the 391 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 1: reason they were doing that. But they just happened to 392 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: see the conversation between Hannah and Tabitha's mother. This is 393 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 1: a level of control that she has over her adult 394 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: sons that is unparalleled. In Summer two, the teens and 395 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: the private Facebook message to show that a person telling 396 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: them that she did overside papers and people have to 397 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: tell me nurist was first seen by Angela teaching the 398 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: Squeech later Journey to Jade and the other Handily members. 399 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: In this moment, while illegally spying on her daughter in 400 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: law's social media, Angela Wagner intercepts a message from Hanname 401 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: roading to Patricia. Hanname stated that she would never sign 402 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: custody papers ever, writing quote they will have to kill 403 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: me first. Was this the moment that sealed the fate 404 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: of the eight soon to be victims? Let's stop here 405 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: for another break. Two months later, I resign yourself. Evidence 406 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: of the virus is homicide. In four months after design 407 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 1: reporter Antonette Levy a few kind of looked at the 408 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: big picture and looked at all of the details and 409 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: what we had been able to learn about. You know 410 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: how this whole alleged plan unfolded with Angela Wagner having 411 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: access to Hannah's Facebook account and seeing the message she 412 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: had exchanged with Tabitha's mother, you know, saying they'd have 413 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: to kill me first. And according to the prosecutors, Angela 414 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: shows that to Jake and then the whole plan unfolds 415 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: from there. So they're the driving forces. She's pleaded guilty 416 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: to basically hacking into these Facebook accounts and monitoring these people. 417 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: There was a lot of planning that went into this. 418 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: I mean, she was heavily involved, although she wasn't in 419 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: the room according to Jake, and according to her, somebody 420 00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: had to stay home with the children. Right. This is 421 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: based on their collective shared suspicion of anyone outside of 422 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: their family and the safety and well being of the 423 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: children that George had and Jake had defending in his family, 424 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: preventing Tabitha from contacting her family during the time she 425 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: was I could be defending his family. She will tell 426 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: you that I believe she was allowed to call her 427 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: mother one day, I remember Mother's birthday or Thunder's Day. 428 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: Last season, we heard from Tabitha's sister, Christina, who explained 429 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: to us the abuse that Tabitha went through while living 430 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: with the Wagner family. This included tracking her movements, emotionally 431 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: abusing her, verbally assaulting her, making her feel less. Then 432 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: and ultimately, Tabitha was forced to make a dramatic escape 433 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: from the Wagner home. Even at the time, we were 434 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: not aware of quite how intertwined Tabitha and Victi hannahme 435 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: Rodan were until now, as Moore is coming out about 436 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: the months leading up to the murders, Tabitha's name is 437 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: really a part of this story in a big way. 438 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: Defending is mainly threatening to shoot Tabitha on the last 439 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: night she was signed with them, before fleeing for her life, 440 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: never to return to the residents. Defending and codefendants having 441 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: Tabitha's child who heard to and considered Angela as his mother, 442 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: spying on her through surreptitious means including been a limited shoe, 443 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: accessing both her and her mother's social media accounts, and 444 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: having mothers spy on her and get back to them. 445 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: They actually tried to enlist Hannah May while Pianamee was alive, 446 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: to get information that Tabitha might disclose to her and 447 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: report it back to them again. Paul to maintain custody 448 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: and control of the children. Defendant in this co defend 449 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: is taking actions to prevent Tabitha for being able to 450 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: be gained custody, including been limited to try and keep 451 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: the child from her for more than a year so 452 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: that they could claim abandonment. That was their distinct state 453 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: for doing that. As we just heard, the Wagners tried 454 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: to manipulate Hannah Me and Tabitha for their own means. 455 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: The two young women were both in near identical situations 456 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: and were very close. Here's Tabitha's sister, Christina. They were 457 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: best friends. Whenever Hannah was basically leaving Jake and all that, 458 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: getting out of Angela's brass, she was talking to my 459 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: sister about how to do it, and my sister told 460 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: her that she had just left. She got tired of 461 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: it before she had left. She asked my sister why 462 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: she had left and all that, and she was upsettor 463 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: at first because my sister had left her alone to 464 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,959 Speaker 1: deal with it all by herself. But where they were 465 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: best friends, my sister took up for Hannah a lot 466 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: and didn't have that support anymore. Whenever Hannah finally left, 467 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: he was talking to my sister's tavvy that she was 468 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: glad that she had left, and she had tried so 469 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,719 Speaker 1: hard for so long to work up the courage to believe, 470 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: and that she was really scared to do it, but 471 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: she was glad that she did. Stephanie and Jeff spoke 472 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: with reporter Angeanette Levy and death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan 473 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: and if you think of the details of the case, 474 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: they all signed the custody documents. Should Jake, Hannah or 475 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: George be killed or die, Angela gets custody of the children. 476 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: She sends them out fully knowing my boys and my 477 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: husband and may be killed and I may be taking 478 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: care and raising their children for the rest of my life. 479 00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 1: To carry out this plan. I get chilled up. I 480 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: hadn't even thought of that Internet. That is even more 481 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: demented than I thought, because if she gets custody specifically 482 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: of Jake's daughter that he shared with Hannah, frankly, she 483 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: never had a daughter of her own. Speaking for Angela, 484 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: is this the granddaughter she never had? And is there 485 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: a version of this where the greatest plot is to 486 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: have everybody go away? I think to your point stuff 487 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: the idea that she's not there. I think that's a 488 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: more disgusting level to me that you know, here boys 489 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: go forth and do as I've said at this moment, 490 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: Tom and that that's kind of the impetus behind this. 491 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: And she kind of sends her minions out to do 492 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: this thing for her that she's planned. So again this 493 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 1: collective attempt, this strong desire con the enterprise to keep 494 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: complete custody and control the minor children. Jake threatened inn 495 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: a baby violence, saying that he would tell her and 496 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: her body would never be found before and again this 497 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: is a collective response. If there is nothing they do 498 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: not even there was private affairs without the consent for 499 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: willingness and participation of the other members of his family 500 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: speaking out for the first time on this podcast is Patricia, 501 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,399 Speaker 1: mother of Tabitha, the ex wife of accused eldest son 502 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: George Wagner, the fourth Patricia's involvement is now known to 503 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: be at the center of the entire case. Yes, I 504 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: think she's guilty as being because I know the demeanor 505 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: of Angelis. She tries to be the loving, fearing mother. 506 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 1: But if you've seen the side of Angelis that I've seen, 507 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: you could doubt that she was all fake. If you 508 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: could talk to Angela and the first thing you went 509 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: through your mind as well, she's a cannoving bitch. And 510 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: if you had Tabla, that's why Tabsla limb I call 511 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: her to Dane. After Tabby watch leaves George, she couldn't 512 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 1: take Angela no more. For two years she lived with 513 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: him and was not allowed to have any contact with 514 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: me once whoever, because Angela didn't want her to. They 515 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: even went as far as taking dabs of cell phone 516 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 1: from her. So it's not hearsafe for me. Tabby wasn't 517 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: afraid of George, Annah wasn't afraid of Jake. They were 518 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:38,800 Speaker 1: only afraid of Angela. But what we also know is 519 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: that there are new theories that dispel all of these accusations. 520 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: Everybody thinks all the bad stuff happens in the big cities, 521 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: but the devil works everywhere. Could Angela Wagner simply be lying? 522 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: And just who is she? It's impossible to imagine that 523 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: custody is the only thing. And in recent reports an 524 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,359 Speaker 1: interview as we've done, it seems as though there may 525 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: be a larger plot in play. Stop miss a lie. 526 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 1: I just feel like something is not right. There's like 527 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: a good four or five places that burned out. This 528 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,320 Speaker 1: is one of the biggest pieces of physical evidence that 529 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 1: we've had thus for There's a lot more secrets to 530 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,320 Speaker 1: uncover in Pike County that involved the Wagner family and 531 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 1: the Rodent family. They drug the whole family through the mud. 532 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: Not use the mud, they drug us through. Hey, people 533 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: who could not or would not speak out before have 534 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: come out of the woodwork. We know the end. We've 535 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: got some idea what happened in the middle. I want 536 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: to know about the beginning. When did the switch flip 537 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: to where the only resolution was to go and kill 538 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: them all? More on that this season. If you haven't 539 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: listened to seasons one and two, last week's How We 540 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: Got Here episode, We'll Catch You Up. For more information 541 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: on case photos, follow us on Gram at Katie Underscore Studios. 542 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: The Piked and Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, 543 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: Chris Graves and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed 544 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: by Jeff Tis, music by Jared Aston, audio mixing by 545 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 1: Ken Novak. The Piked and Massacre is a production of 546 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: Katie Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 547 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 548 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.