Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1: It's me James today and I'm very fortunate to be
Speaker 1: joined by Francis, whose husband Amos is facing a date
Speaker 1: in immigration court this week. We wanted to bring you
Speaker 1: a first time perspective of what it's like going through
Speaker 1: immigration court right now.
Speaker 2: So Francis, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, we're very glad you're here. So to
Speaker 1: start with, like, would you like to explain your families
Speaker 1: and it's a lengthy topic, your family's immigration story.
Speaker 3: Yes, I met my husband Amos in Hollywood. We were
Speaker 3: both living in Hollywood and we dated a couple of
Speaker 3: years there and then ended up moving to his home
Speaker 3: country of Tunisia because he had a big family there
Speaker 3: and I don't have much family here and we wanted
Speaker 3: to have children. It's much better cost of living there,
Speaker 3: and at the time the government there was doing pretty well.
Speaker 3: There had been an Arab spring, which my husband was
Speaker 3: very much involved with on this over here in the States,
Speaker 3: like helping with that, and so he's an activist, and
Speaker 3: at the time the government there was pretty good. So
Speaker 3: we lived there for eight years, had our children there,
Speaker 3: and a new presidency came in while we were living there,
Speaker 3: the current president Caius Sayid, and things started to change.
Speaker 3: So my husband was doing a lot of organizing grassroots
Speaker 3: movement through local farmers unions and monitoring elections and doing
Speaker 3: democracy activities for anti corruption and he's really an activist
Speaker 3: for free speech and things like that. So he started
Speaker 3: getting harassed. He was arrested, he was beaten up by
Speaker 3: the police and things like that. So it started getting
Speaker 3: very uncomfortable. Also, I was getting harassed. I would get
Speaker 3: pulled over a lot by the police. They would impound
Speaker 3: our car, they would take us out. Yeah, the police
Speaker 3: there carry big guns, you know, as in most Arab countries,
Speaker 3: and so it was very frightening for me. Yeah, they
Speaker 3: carry big guns. They're either on their backs or even
Speaker 3: in their hands, and they would have me and the
Speaker 3: kids get out of the car, and it was very frightening. So, yeah,
Speaker 3: the children and I, well, we were all planning on
Speaker 3: coming back to the States. I hadn't been home in
Speaker 3: a while, and so the children and I went ahead
Speaker 3: and came, assuming that my husband would be able to
Speaker 3: get a at least a visa to you know, see
Speaker 3: us and while once we were here, he was not
Speaker 3: able to get a visa. He tried and tried and tried,
Speaker 3: and I was begging the embassy to allow him to
Speaker 3: see us here, and they just would not. So we
Speaker 3: were separated for nine months. So him being away from
Speaker 3: our children, they were about four and six at the time,
Speaker 3: or maybe five and seven. It was devastating for all
Speaker 3: of us. So he ended up taking a very treacherous
Speaker 3: journey across South America and made his way through many
Speaker 3: countries and presented himself for asylum at the border because again,
Speaker 3: we did not feel safe living in Tunia anymore. So
Speaker 3: he presented himself for asylum at the border and they
Speaker 3: allowed him into this country with a court date. And
Speaker 3: at the time, Biden was president, So things are, you know,
Speaker 3: have changed a lot since then. You know, the immigration
Speaker 3: system is broken. Everybody knows that. It takes years and
Speaker 3: years and years and tons and tons of money for
Speaker 3: an immigrant to you know, go through the process. You
Speaker 3: know people who say, oh, just do it the right way.
Speaker 3: It's not that simple. It takes a lot of money
Speaker 3: and a lot of time, and it's very complicated. And
Speaker 3: when you're fleeing a country or a situation where you're
Speaker 3: in danger, there is no other option, you know, there's
Speaker 3: nowhere to go back, right, So that's what we're kind
Speaker 3: of facing now. So he had a court date. We've
Speaker 3: had five master hearings, and we've gone through a few
Speaker 3: different lawyers because we have found, for one thing, it's
Speaker 3: extremely difficult to find a lawyer these days because they're
Speaker 3: very overbooked. Most of them are not taking new cases.
Speaker 3: People tell us, oh, just get a pro bono lawyer.
Speaker 3: It is almost impossible to get a pro bono lawyer anymore.
Speaker 3: And you know who has thousands and thousands of extra
Speaker 3: dollars to pay for legal help with the situation. We
Speaker 3: do have a lawyer now thanks to some fundraising that
Speaker 3: we've done. So since he's been here, we've had to
Speaker 3: check in at the ICE office like it was on
Speaker 3: sort of a basis of after you have a court
Speaker 3: hearing the next day or within a couple of days,
Speaker 3: you must go check in it ICE. And it's been
Speaker 3: very fine, like the there's a very nice officer there
Speaker 3: who knows us and helped tries to he answer our questions.
Speaker 3: So it was pretty calm when Biden was president, and
Speaker 3: then now that Trump's administration has taken over. We knew
Speaker 3: that there would be a lot of changes and we
Speaker 3: were very frightened. So we went for a hearing earlier
Speaker 3: this year. You know, we're just a lot more nervous.
Speaker 3: And the hearing went fine, just kind of as normal.
Speaker 3: We went to the ICE check in. I think our
Speaker 3: guard was kind of down because we thought, since the
Speaker 3: hearing went fine, this will go fine. Yeah, and the
Speaker 3: nice officer told us, you know, well this is going
Speaker 3: to sound a little scary, but we need you to
Speaker 3: go check in at a different place this time. And
Speaker 3: so they sent us to a company called ice App.
Speaker 3: They own, i think migrant detention centers. So we went
Speaker 3: to this place and he was there the whole day.
Speaker 3: They were interviewing him. They put an app in his
Speaker 3: phone so that now he has to do these weekly
Speaker 3: check ins where his phone makes this loud alarm sound.
Speaker 3: He must stop everything and take a picture of himself.
Speaker 3: There's a monthly home visit where they come to our
Speaker 3: house and take his picture and ask him questions. There's
Speaker 3: we have to go check in at their office, and
Speaker 3: also he does virtual check in. So it's just a
Speaker 3: lot more and everything was kind of going as planned.
Speaker 3: We are last hearing in July that was really stressful
Speaker 3: because we didn't have a lawyer leading up to it,
Speaker 3: and at the last second we were able to get
Speaker 3: a lawyer. And the reason it's so important to have
Speaker 3: a lawyer is because if you don't, you must appear
Speaker 3: in person, and that's very stressful and frightening. Again, we
Speaker 3: have small children. We don't even do babysitters, like, we're
Speaker 3: always just together. We're a very tight family unit, and
Speaker 3: so we go to these things together. And we really
Speaker 3: wanted this last one in July to be virtual because
Speaker 3: if it's virtual, you know, it's just feels a lot safer.
Speaker 3: We're in the comfort of our own home and we've
Speaker 3: been hearing in the news, you know, how they're picking
Speaker 3: up people outside of their court hearings. So we got
Speaker 3: the attorney, we got a virtual here. It was a
Speaker 3: very short hearing. It was great because she just gave
Speaker 3: us the next hearing date was September of twenty twenty eight,
Speaker 3: and the judge said, Okay, see you in twenty twenty eight,
Speaker 3: and we breathed a sigh of relief, crossed our fingers,
Speaker 3: did our necessary check ins, and we were just you know,
Speaker 3: hoping that everything would be fine. Ye, well, just here
Speaker 3: at the end of August, beginning of September, we get
Speaker 3: out of the blue a new notice. It was very
Speaker 3: interesting too, because this iceapp company calls us and says,
Speaker 3: good news, We're gonna lessen the amount of check ins
Speaker 3: you have to do. It's going to be a lot
Speaker 3: less now. So, you know, it was interesting because she's like,
Speaker 3: this is great news for you, so like once a month,
Speaker 3: you'll still do the weekly ones and then it's just
Speaker 3: going to be once.
Speaker 2: A month, okay.
Speaker 3: But then she says, and then we'll see you after
Speaker 3: your hearing in September, meaning this September. And we thought
Speaker 3: it was a mistake because we knew we had one
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty eight. Yeah, like, no, no, you got
Speaker 3: a new hearing notice. So that's how we found out.
Speaker 3: They didn't send it to us. Even our lawyer didn't know.
Speaker 3: So we find out that we have a new hearing
Speaker 3: out of the blue. There was a mix up about
Speaker 3: the dates, but anyway, it was September eleventh or fifteenth,
Speaker 3: and then our attorney asked for an extension and the
Speaker 3: most they could give us was nine days. So now
Speaker 3: our hearing is this coming Wednesday, September twenty fourth, and
Speaker 3: on this has never happened before, but when again, when
Speaker 3: you have an attorney, you can appear virtually, and on
Speaker 3: this hearing notice it said that the attorney can appear virtually,
Speaker 3: but the respondent must appear in person, and that is
Speaker 3: highly unusual. It's in bold at the top. So our
Speaker 3: attorney agrees with us that it's pretty clear the plan is.
Speaker 3: What they've been doing now is when you go to court,
Speaker 3: they drop your case. So now it's dismissed, and therefore
Speaker 3: you are just here without due process. Now you don't
Speaker 3: have a right to do process. It's done, so you're
Speaker 3: just here legally, and then they're sometimes waiting for you
Speaker 3: in the hallway or outside the building to take you
Speaker 3: to iced attention. So obviously since we found this out,
Speaker 3: I mean, we've just been sleepless nights, full panic mode
Speaker 3: of figuring out like what to do, and then our
Speaker 3: attorney doesn't even have answers for us. She does not
Speaker 3: know what to do. She says, this is all new
Speaker 3: to her, it's new to all the lawyers. She doesn't
Speaker 3: even know what to do or who to ask. And
Speaker 3: that's frightening, because that's why we have an attorney, you know,
Speaker 3: We're hoping for some support or someone who's knowledgeable about
Speaker 3: the law and what are our options, and it feels
Speaker 3: like we don't have any. We feel extremely helpless, and
Speaker 3: I've never thought I would see this in my country,
Speaker 3: my quote unquote free country that I have lived in
Speaker 3: most of my life and grew up in. Also, about
Speaker 3: two weeks ago, they changed the law where now we
Speaker 3: are not entitled to a bar, so if he is
Speaker 3: taken into detention, we can't even get him out, because
Speaker 3: that was the first thing we thought was, well, let's
Speaker 3: just try to get some money together and we'll bail
Speaker 3: him out. Yeah, that's not even an option anymore. So
Speaker 3: again more fear. So we're dealing with all of this
Speaker 3: and wondering what to do as far as you know. Again,
Speaker 3: we have small children. They're now seven and nine years old.
Speaker 3: We're extremely happy where we're living. We live in a
Speaker 3: small community that does lean on the conservative side, so
Speaker 3: we do feel a little uncomfortable with some of our
Speaker 3: neighbors and their flags and everything. They're very bold, so
Speaker 3: you know, and you can't hide being brown, so it's
Speaker 3: awkward and then our children because of the way that
Speaker 3: we left before. When we left Tunisia, it was pretty sudden.
Speaker 3: We kind of took them out of school and just
Speaker 3: came to America and left their dad behind. So they've
Speaker 3: been in therapy ever since. They each have a weekly
Speaker 3: therapist just to help with if they're you know, if
Speaker 3: they're going to have any symptoms of trauma coming up
Speaker 3: for them. And they're doing great. Actually, they're thriving here.
Speaker 3: They are so happy. They are in the best school.
Speaker 3: I actually work at their school, and my husband volunteers
Speaker 3: at the school and he's been their soccer coach for
Speaker 3: both of their teams, which is a lot to take on.
Speaker 3: He also volunteers in our community at a ranch helping
Speaker 3: with horses and at a facility for senior citizens. And
Speaker 3: he does have a work permit. They granted him a
Speaker 3: work permit, which took a long time to get.
Speaker 2: That's good because that can take a long time.
Speaker 3: It took a long time, over a year, but he
Speaker 3: does have it now. So we got excited because he
Speaker 3: only got the work permit a couple months ago, so
Speaker 3: we're very excited, you know, he can work and now
Speaker 3: it's just out of the blue. Our world has turned
Speaker 3: upside down where there's a strong potential that he will
Speaker 3: be taken into ice custody and listen, I understand if
Speaker 3: that's how they want to do things now, but if
Speaker 3: it was like a safer situation where maybe they just.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's just there's so many unknowns about where are they
Speaker 3: taking him. There's our lawyer does not think we will
Speaker 3: be informed about where they take him. That's one thing
Speaker 3: which means we probably won't be able to communicate with him.
Speaker 3: We don't know how long he'll be there. They could
Speaker 3: keep him there the entire three years until twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 3: They might just want to keep him in detention and wait,
Speaker 3: you know, for his next year. It doesn't make any
Speaker 3: sense to me because that costs money, and he's a
Speaker 3: tax payer. Wouldn't it pay more if he's home working.
Speaker 3: By the way, yes, he has no criminal record whatsoever.
Speaker 3: He has not broken any immigration laws, at least when
Speaker 3: he came over the border. It was legal to present
Speaker 3: yourself for asylum when you are coming from a country
Speaker 3: like he was. Where he was you know, being harassed, detained,
Speaker 3: and our entire family like we were being threatened and
Speaker 3: feeling very unsafe there.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's a textbook asylum place, right, like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have a valid asylum claim. We've submitted hundreds
Speaker 3: of documents of evidence to the court. You know, the
Speaker 3: judge actually complimented us on how well we did because
Speaker 3: at the time we didn't have an attorney. We were
Speaker 3: just trying to do it on our own because we
Speaker 3: couldn't afford an attorney. We were both college graduates, so
Speaker 3: we put together a really organized, you know case, and
Speaker 3: so I have filed to sponsor him as well. You know,
Speaker 3: as my husband. We've been together twelve years, married ten
Speaker 3: two kids, and they don't care about that. It does
Speaker 3: not matter if he has an American family, it does
Speaker 3: not matter. They are taking anybody. And that also is very,
Speaker 3: very frustrating, and that's the reason that we should have
Speaker 3: due process. They should be looking at every single case
Speaker 3: individually and have a judge make a decision. That's the
Speaker 3: whole point of it. Obviously, if we hadn't hindsight, if
Speaker 3: we had known that this could have happened, we had
Speaker 3: no idea that this could have happened in our country,
Speaker 3: we would have started this sponsorship process a long time ago.
Speaker 3: The reason we did and is because he was married
Speaker 3: before and he went through this process with USCIS to
Speaker 3: try to get sponsorship with his first wife, and it
Speaker 3: was extremely complicated and frustrating and cost a lot of money,
Speaker 3: and he went through a bunch of lawyers and he
Speaker 3: was so traumatized by the experience that literally we had
Speaker 3: big legal files in our house that I had to
Speaker 3: hide because he couldn't even see them or he would
Speaker 3: get triggered. So he didn't want to put me through that.
Speaker 3: And we were living in Tunisia anyway, and so we
Speaker 3: just figured we were just kind of kicking the can
Speaker 3: down the road, thinking, oh, we'll deal with it at
Speaker 3: some point. Unfortunately, we waited way too long and you know,
Speaker 3: didn't start dealing with it until he got here. And
Speaker 3: so USCIS, which is where we you know, file for
Speaker 3: this sponsorship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you ask Customs Immigration Service people know familiar.
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you. After we filed that, they gave us
Speaker 3: a time period on when we would get the decision.
Speaker 3: It was fifteen months that we would have to wait.
Speaker 3: And we've been checking the site, checking the site, checking
Speaker 3: the site, has been counting down, counting down, and about
Speaker 3: a month ago we were down.
Speaker 2: To a week, oh well, okay, that we would be.
Speaker 3: Getting a decision, and after the week passed, it changed
Speaker 3: the message on the app now or the website now
Speaker 3: says and definitely you'll have to wait indefinitely for this decision.
Speaker 3: So we've been trying to ask our lawyer please push
Speaker 3: for this because if that gets you know, an answer,
Speaker 3: that would be great. But the answer could be no
Speaker 3: on that as well. They could just say no, come
Speaker 3: on in and they can take him straight from there
Speaker 3: as well. So the whole thing is so incredibly stressful
Speaker 3: and frightening the fact that my government, I'm in America,
Speaker 3: I'm an American citizen with two American kids, and my
Speaker 3: government is threatening to tear our family apart and take
Speaker 3: my husband away, the father of my children, and traumatize
Speaker 3: my children again to have their dad not with us,
Speaker 3: and lord knows where they're going to send him. It
Speaker 3: is absolutely infuriating, and it feels like agony too, because
Speaker 3: like every day I wake up and I'm counting down
Speaker 3: the days to this hearing, and we have no idea
Speaker 3: what's going to happen. Right, it feels very very threatening
Speaker 3: to our safety and our livelihood, and that it's coming
Speaker 3: from our government does not make me feel like this
Speaker 3: is a great country to live in and I do
Speaker 3: not feel safe living here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for sharing all that.
Speaker 1: That's a lot too, yeah to have to put out there,
Speaker 1: so thank you for sharing it. Yes, we should just
Speaker 1: explain for people, like there's a lot of stuff that
Speaker 1: maybe people who haven't been through the system might not
Speaker 1: not grasp within that right, So what the government has
Speaker 1: if I just break down, like the dismissal of cases,
Speaker 1: as I understand that what the government has been doing
Speaker 1: has been dismissing people's asylum case right, which they got
Speaker 1: under Title eight when they entered and added by the administration,
Speaker 1: and then placing them in expedited removal proceedings, which is
Speaker 1: a mandatory detention as you said, right, it's not a
Speaker 1: bailout situation, and then as you say, forcing them to
Speaker 1: fight from detention, right, which in this case would obviously
Speaker 1: stop your husband from working, stop your husband from paying taxes,
Speaker 1: and instead make him a burden on the American taxpayer
Speaker 1: while he's detained in conditions which could often be very poor.
Speaker 1: In that situation, You're only sort of claim is a
Speaker 1: credible fear of torture, right, which is something that in
Speaker 1: your case, it sounds like would be very real. But nonetheless,
Speaker 1: that is a very high bar, and we've seen the
Speaker 1: United States do all kinds of things to get around that.
Speaker 1: We've got on that all the time, so I can
Speaker 1: understand that fear and where it comes from. I think
Speaker 1: people will be shocked, but they perhaps shouldn't be to
Speaker 1: hear that, Like, yes, you can be a US citizen
Speaker 1: married to a non US citizen. This can still happen
Speaker 1: to you. It can happen to anyone who is not
Speaker 1: a citizen in this country right now. I wonder, like
Speaker 1: it must have been pretty heartbreaking to see the election,
Speaker 1: to see the rhetoric, Like how does that line up
Speaker 1: with your lives in your community? Because I see this
Speaker 1: often even from really conservative people, right, Like I know
Speaker 1: people who voted for Trump who have also shown up
Speaker 1: to cook for asylum seekers in the desert or to
Speaker 1: help refugees living in our community. Like it's a very
Speaker 1: strange thing. Have you felt alienated from your community since
Speaker 1: the beginning of this year, because I'm interested in, like
Speaker 1: how your lives have changed because of that change in rhetoric.
Speaker 3: Yes, Like I said, we have neighbors on our streets.
Speaker 3: So there was a block party for Fourth of July,
Speaker 3: which I didn't even feel like celebrating, but we had
Speaker 3: just moved into this house, so we felt, you know,
Speaker 3: like we should go at least meet the neighbors. And
Speaker 3: there's a lot of Trump flags on our street, and
Speaker 3: it was very awkward. But my husband is very charming
Speaker 3: and charismatic and outgoing, and he just goes right up
Speaker 3: and introduces himself. And there was one gentleman wearing a
Speaker 3: T shirt that said they hate us because they ate us,
Speaker 3: and it's got a big old, you know, Trump face
Speaker 3: on it, and it was just so so awkward. So yeah,
Speaker 3: we feel uncomfortable. Also, like I said, it's a leans
Speaker 3: conservative in this community and our school. Even like, as
Speaker 3: we're doing this fundraiser, we were very careful not to
Speaker 3: share it with anyone that we live near, just in case,
Speaker 3: you know, because we have been hearing reports of people
Speaker 3: like neighbors calling ice on their neighbors to you report
Speaker 3: them and you know, go pick up this person. You know,
Speaker 3: he looks brown or I don't know what they're what
Speaker 3: they're doing or their logic, but you know, yeah, it
Speaker 3: feels very threatening and even Oh. My daughter even said, uh,
Speaker 3: can't Data just cover up his skin? You know, like
Speaker 3: she was just thinking like, yeah, was he gonna wear
Speaker 3: her cup?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Right?
Speaker 3: I mean, you can't really hide who you are, and
Speaker 3: you shouldn't have.
Speaker 1: To, right, And it's very hard for the kids to
Speaker 1: be saying that, yeah, the dad should be hiding.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And they've asked me, how can we make Trump just
Speaker 3: forget about Data, you know, and I said, well, he
Speaker 3: doesn't really know. They don't you know, he doesn't know
Speaker 3: exactly your dad. He's just they're doing this to a
Speaker 3: lot of people. You know. We just happened to be
Speaker 3: in that group. But I will say we have some
Speaker 3: some close friends that we really adore and they are Trumpers.
Speaker 3: You know, we see it on their Facebook page, but
Speaker 3: then when we're in their presence, they don't bring it up,
Speaker 3: and it's just kind of an elephant room. And honestly,
Speaker 3: as our core data is getting closer, we plan on
Speaker 3: having them over to talk about it because it feels
Speaker 3: very awkward. And I just think there's the kindest people.
Speaker 3: They're extremely religious, which we are not when we're on
Speaker 3: the spiritual side, but you know, I think they're just
Speaker 3: they're just on a team. They've chosen a team, and
Speaker 3: I don't think they're necessarily paying a lot of attention
Speaker 3: to what's actually happening to people. So we're hoping that
Speaker 3: just a conversation will just let them know. We want
Speaker 3: to be honest with the people that are close to us,
Speaker 3: and that mean a lot to us, you know, because
Speaker 3: we don't know what's about to happen. And even there's
Speaker 3: members of my family that I feel very awkward talking
Speaker 3: to as well, where I'm kind of distanced myself because
Speaker 3: people who are still supporting this regime at this point,
Speaker 3: to me are too far gone to even kind of
Speaker 3: get them to come around, I guess. I mean, I
Speaker 3: just don't understand. I can't understand support of Trump from
Speaker 3: the first place. So again, if people are still on
Speaker 3: that boat, I really don't relate to them, and it's
Speaker 3: very awkward. Especially Yeah, people in my family who supposedly
Speaker 3: love me and my children, you know, are still supporting
Speaker 3: that regime, and despite seeing all the things, maybe they
Speaker 3: don't see it. I mean, I know they if they
Speaker 3: are exclusively watching Fox News, then they are only receiving
Speaker 3: that information, which is not telling the whole story, right,
Speaker 3: And it's definitely completely skewed to make them look like
Speaker 3: the good guys, and anyone on that's liberal is a
Speaker 3: bad guy. And they're very much targeting you know, Democrats
Speaker 3: now as the enemy, the enemy of the state. They
Speaker 3: have even said. So it's I mean, it's so now
Speaker 3: I'm starting to feel even nonsafe for myself because I'm
Speaker 3: I'm not super active on Facebook, but I am outspoken
Speaker 3: because I can't resist. I mean, there is freedom of
Speaker 3: speech in this country, or at least there was, and
Speaker 3: there should be. And it's hard to be quiet at
Speaker 3: this time. And we would be a lot more outspoken
Speaker 3: if we weren't feeling unsafe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you have that fear, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yes, especially my husband because he's always been an activist
Speaker 3: and a you know, fighter for free speech and equal rights,
Speaker 3: and so it's that's one of the things that's really
Speaker 3: crushing him and his soul and his spirit through all this,
Speaker 3: is that he cannot even speak out. Yes, so you know,
Speaker 3: for people like him. It's not even for himself, but
Speaker 3: just for people like him. I know he wants to help,
Speaker 3: you know, and it's really challenging.
Speaker 1: I know, it's so sad to see the whole point
Speaker 1: of the asylum system, and like at least the sort
Speaker 1: of stated purpose of American foreign policy, it's sort of
Speaker 1: spread democracy throughout the world, and a lot of people
Speaker 1: have stood up for democracy and been persecuted to come
Speaker 1: here and be safe. Evidently the United States doesn't even
Speaker 1: believe it's saying that anymore, in so much as it
Speaker 1: said it didn't always do it in the past. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is really sad to think that, like even that
Speaker 1: it's gone. Yeah, for so many people. I think the
Speaker 1: idea of migrants is like an abstract one right for
Speaker 1: your Fox News viewer. Migrants are just like an abstract
Speaker 1: brown skin bad person. And I often think that if
Speaker 1: those people had known migrants in their community, they would
Speaker 1: either not vote that way or they would at least
Speaker 1: not like that policy. There are other things they liked
Speaker 1: about Trump, which it go. That's not something I can
Speaker 1: I can find much understanding of. And those people do exist,
Speaker 1: but it's just so sad to see like people turned
Speaker 1: against anyone who wasn't born in this country. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: simply because they were, not because of any other character trait.
Speaker 3: They have, particularly the brown skin though, because you have
Speaker 3: to admit the Canadians there. I mean, even though there's
Speaker 3: been a little tension with the Canadians at first in
Speaker 3: this regime, you know, pretty much under the radar, and
Speaker 3: anyone from Europe or anyone. He's even said like send
Speaker 3: a Nordic people, that's fine, you know, I mean, he's
Speaker 3: he's very clear, right, Yeah, the Africans refugees are welcome.
Speaker 3: Come on. It's just so blatant, you know. And and
Speaker 3: I remember when I was growing up, my mom in particular,
Speaker 3: would would complain when when we started to have to
Speaker 3: press one for English. I remember my mom complaining about
Speaker 3: that or thinking, you know, you know, if you're here,
Speaker 3: you should learn the language. Well, I got to say,
Speaker 3: I lived in Tunisia for eight years and I did
Speaker 3: not learn the language. I tried to teach myself. It's
Speaker 3: a dialect that you know, at the time, they didn't
Speaker 3: have lessons that you could get on YouTube or duo
Speaker 3: lingo or anything. You know. If I learned French and Arabic,
Speaker 3: maybe I could piece something together. But I you know,
Speaker 3: it's not as easy as people say.
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, And then just.
Speaker 3: To speak of my mother, I guess she prides her
Speaker 3: self on making friends with people at the grocery store
Speaker 3: who are of another ethnicity, or like really you know,
Speaker 3: getting to know a doctor, or she has a housekeeper
Speaker 3: who's been working for her for like thirty years, and
Speaker 3: so I know she doesn't think of that person as
Speaker 3: being someone that shouldn't be here, right, So you know,
Speaker 3: so I think even if you do know a family
Speaker 3: or two who's who's an immigrant, you might think, oh, well,
Speaker 3: not them, I don't mean them, I mean also other ones.
Speaker 3: I mean all the bad guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the bad ones.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if Trump was serious about getting the bad
Speaker 3: ones go to the gang neighborhoods, Like we do know
Speaker 3: where the dangerous gang neighborhoods are, but they're not sending
Speaker 3: the tanks there. They're sending them to MacArthur Park, you know,
Speaker 3: home depot. It's like, if you want to get the gangs,
Speaker 3: get the gangs. But I think they're too scared of
Speaker 3: that because these are really just regular people that they're
Speaker 3: hiring to do this work for them to people, and
Speaker 3: that's why they're hiding their faces, because they are regular
Speaker 3: people who would like to probably have a normal life
Speaker 3: outside of this new job that they've been so well
Speaker 3: paid for.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, and certainly they're they're recruiting a lot more
Speaker 1: people to do that right now, which is can I
Speaker 1: only see a step up in enforcement?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I wonder like in so much anything has helped because
Speaker 1: people will want to help, right Like, I think people
Speaker 1: will listen, they will understand a situation, they will see
Speaker 1: the possibility of your family being torn apart and want
Speaker 1: to help. But it's hard to help right now, right
Speaker 1: unless you're an immigration lawyer. And every pro bono immigration
Speaker 1: lawyer I know is mental health damaging levels of overworked
Speaker 1: and stressed and traumatized. I think, So what can people do,
Speaker 1: either for you or in their communities to show up
Speaker 1: for people who are in your situation?
Speaker 3: I would say donate. You could donate to the ACL,
Speaker 3: you donate to individual families like ours. I'm sure. I
Speaker 3: think there's a lot of gofundmes out there that people
Speaker 3: are trying to raise money for. That's the way, you know,
Speaker 3: everything is kind of done these days when people are
Speaker 3: desperate and speak out, And I think the most important
Speaker 3: thing is have conversations and get to know people and
Speaker 3: even like, yeah, sometimes I see you know, a Hispanic
Speaker 3: person in a grocery store. I just wanted to tell them,
Speaker 3: thank you for being here. I'm glad you're here, because
Speaker 3: I think they must be feeling so scared right now
Speaker 3: and so unwanted and so unappreciated when they are doing
Speaker 3: some of the hardest jobs that nobody else wants to
Speaker 3: do for very little money. Yeah, these are essential workers.
Speaker 3: They should be paid the most. Everything is backwards, you know.
Speaker 3: The people who are doing the hardest, you know, cleaning
Speaker 3: the toilets and picking the fields, they should be paid
Speaker 3: the most. It doesn't make any sense. Regardless of where
Speaker 3: they're from, they're willing to do the work, and Lord
Speaker 3: knows their background of where they came from and how
Speaker 3: the struggles that they've been through to leave their home country.
Speaker 3: Nobody wants to leave their home country. You do that
Speaker 3: because it's so bad that you must, you know, especially
Speaker 3: if you have children. You're trying to make a better
Speaker 3: life for yourself. And we've been sold on this American
Speaker 3: dream prospect. You know that we've heard our whole lives
Speaker 3: and the whole world has heard about So they come
Speaker 3: and now we're just punishing them brutally. It's not even like,
Speaker 3: oh no, sorry, we're full, you know, we're gonna have
Speaker 3: to send you back. It's like, no, we're gonna punish you.
Speaker 3: We're gonna treat you like dogs, call you animals and
Speaker 3: vermin and call you horrible things. Yeah, send you to
Speaker 3: places where you're unsafe and untaken care of, and maybe,
Speaker 3: if you're lucky, you'll get sent back to your home country,
Speaker 3: or you'll get sent to a random country or even
Speaker 3: a prison, like a horrible prison in another country where
Speaker 3: who knows what's It's just this is what frightens me. Yea,
Speaker 3: you know again, if he was sent to somewhere, to
Speaker 3: a place where I could you know, we could have
Speaker 3: visits or calls or you know, and he waits it out,
Speaker 3: I guess that would be more tolerable than the unknown
Speaker 3: of his safety. He's not going to be well taken
Speaker 3: care of. That's a fact. They don't care about these people.
Speaker 3: And my husband, unfortunately, he's always been extremely strong, extremely brave,
Speaker 3: a fighter, and I feel like his fight is gone.
Speaker 3: He's physically and mentally at the end of his rope.
Speaker 3: And I'm extremely frightened. I mean, he just feels like
Speaker 3: he's tired of fighting. He's just exhausted from this, you
Speaker 3: know again, I mean, we've been together twelve years. And
Speaker 3: again he was going through this process with his first
Speaker 3: wife who he was with for eight years, and he
Speaker 3: never got an answer. He was never denied, but he
Speaker 3: just never got an answer, and that was enough for
Speaker 3: them for our case, just to you know, it's going
Speaker 3: to be really, really difficult to get a yes for
Speaker 3: a green card.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it still happens. I've heard of
Speaker 1: it happening even in the last few months, but it
Speaker 1: is increasingly harder and less common, and that is brutal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's horrible.
Speaker 1: And the way, of course, as you're saying, system is
Speaker 1: designed to make you feel hopeless and just to as
Speaker 1: they call it self, deport.
Speaker 3: Yes, And even our lawyer doesn't know what to do.
Speaker 3: And I feel the judge seems like a nice person,
Speaker 3: and I would imagine it must be very frustrating too
Speaker 3: to be a judge at this time where they have
Speaker 3: to be the ones that are just kind of their
Speaker 3: hands are tied. They will lose their job if they
Speaker 3: don't do what the regime wants them to do. So
Speaker 3: you know, this is what happens in third world countries.
Speaker 3: This is why America has been great, because we weren't
Speaker 3: like this before with US, you know, cutting out free
Speaker 3: speech and things like that. It's changing rapidly and if
Speaker 3: people don't stand up more, and I'm sorry, but it's
Speaker 3: going to have to take more than these peaceful protests. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: because they're not doing anything. We are being laughed at
Speaker 3: by the Maga Republicans. They do not care about our
Speaker 3: peaceful protests. They're just like, Okay, there's a protest on
Speaker 3: this day. Next day, They're just going to keep doing
Speaker 3: it harder, you know.
Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 3: Not changing anything, so something has to change. I'm hoping
Speaker 3: more celebrities come out and start speaking up. I think
Speaker 3: that would help because people tend to back the celebrities
Speaker 3: that they love, and I'm kind of alarmed that more
Speaker 3: people like especially the most powerful celebrities like Oprah for example,
Speaker 3: why aren't they out there every day, yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: saying this is what I support and this is what
Speaker 3: I don't support. I think they're scared, I'm assuming.
Speaker 2: I would imagine, so what a sad thought.
Speaker 3: I do think that the Maga Republicans are outnumbered, and
Speaker 3: I think that they're continuously going to be outnumbered as
Speaker 3: things get more and more you know, shocking as we're
Speaker 3: seeing our freedoms being stripped, the constitutional freedoms that we've
Speaker 3: always known being stripped. I think it's going to get worse,
Speaker 3: and I don't know how about it has to get
Speaker 3: before change happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think any of us do. I do
Speaker 2: think you're right.
Speaker 1: The more and more people are not happy with HAWS
Speaker 1: is happening, But there doesn't even seem to be a
Speaker 1: well among Democrats to oppose this in a meaningful way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's very.
Speaker 3: Sad and like, yeah, even the Democrats in power don't
Speaker 3: know what to do.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, and they seem to think that it's
Speaker 1: electoral suicide just to be basically decent and say, we
Speaker 1: need to be decent people and kind to people who
Speaker 1: come here asking us to help them. And there seems
Speaker 1: to be something that is just inadmissible in electoral politics,
Speaker 1: which is really sad.
Speaker 3: Right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you guys have your court date. We will
Speaker 1: obviously continue covering this.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: We get We're going to continue updating people.
Speaker 1: We will continue talking about this and covering this, and yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll try and get an update out. This is coming out.
Speaker 1: You'll be hearing this on Monday, and we will try
Speaker 1: and get an update out within a week or so,
Speaker 1: just to let everyone know how things have gone and
Speaker 1: what they can do to help. Is there anything else
Speaker 1: you'd like to say to people before we go?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, as we found out, you know that there's
Speaker 3: a good possibility that he will be taken into iced
Speaker 3: attention on Wednesday. We ask our lawyer, Okay, so what
Speaker 3: are the next steps if that happens? What you know,
Speaker 3: he has a constitutional right to do process of law
Speaker 3: habeas corpus and she doesn't know what to do. She's
Speaker 3: never done it before. So therefore we need to find
Speaker 3: a different lawyer that can help us with that. It's
Speaker 3: not in immigration court, it's federal court. So we have inquiries.
Speaker 3: We actually have a consult today with someone who maybe
Speaker 3: help us with that. We sent emails out last night
Speaker 3: kind of telling our story to another lawyer, hoping that
Speaker 3: we can get some support and on that front, because
Speaker 3: basically that's your next step. You're in detention. You raise
Speaker 3: your constitutional rights of due process of law, you know,
Speaker 3: but then again it's another fight and again it could
Speaker 3: be from detention, which is yeah, more money, I'm going
Speaker 3: to be at that point, a single mother, you know,
Speaker 3: trying to support bills here in California, which is already
Speaker 3: you know, difficult, and you know, on my own, and
Speaker 3: also paying lawyers and trying to fight to either find
Speaker 3: my husband or get him out of there. You know,
Speaker 3: we don't want to be the country if we if
Speaker 3: we don't have to. We we love it here. I
Speaker 3: don't know where else to go. We can't go to Tunisia.
Speaker 3: I'm American. Where are we supposed to go? Yeah? And
Speaker 3: that's what people don't understand too with immigrants. You know,
Speaker 3: if they can't return to their home country because of
Speaker 3: safety reasons, which is most of the cases, that's why
Speaker 3: we have the silent cases, then what are they supposed
Speaker 3: to do? You know?
Speaker 1: And I don't think a lot of people seem to care, right,
Speaker 1: They think people just want people to go away.
Speaker 2: Somewhere, go figure it out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not our problem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which in this case it very much is
Speaker 1: and in every case, and like it is our problem
Speaker 1: that we should take responsibility for one another as well.
Speaker 2: Being right, Yes, as humans should care about each other.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just have empathy at least that's the least we
Speaker 3: could do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, A society that says it's not my problem, it's
Speaker 2: not one that any of us should want to live in.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And in our case, my husband's particularly worried because
Speaker 3: if he does get sent back to Tunisia, most definitely
Speaker 3: he would be in jail there as well, which is
Speaker 3: also not a pleasant experience.
Speaker 2: Yet to put it mildly, and it would be.
Speaker 3: Yeah, where they torture people in jail. So yeah, again,
Speaker 3: we don't really know what to do or where to go.
Speaker 3: But these are the thoughts that we're having.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not unreasonable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if we do self deport, when do we, Like,
Speaker 3: we're trying to push it as long as we can
Speaker 3: stay stayed day, stay, stay, stay, stay, you know, and
Speaker 3: then when do we let them know? Okay, okay, I
Speaker 3: guess we'll self deport, like at the last second before
Speaker 3: they take them into detend, like, you know, I don't
Speaker 3: know the safe way to do that, right, And then
Speaker 3: if we do, can they give us time to get
Speaker 3: our affairs in order, Like leaving the country is no
Speaker 3: small task and we don't even have money to do that.
Speaker 3: So you know, these are our options, These are literally
Speaker 3: our options. And again, small children second grade, fourth grade,
Speaker 3: you know, and they're thriving here like they don't deserve this.
Speaker 3: And my husband even said, you know, he said this
Speaker 3: the other day, like our children don't deserve this, and
Speaker 3: I said, no, children deserve the horrors of this planet.
Speaker 3: You know that. I mean, we're we're actually a lot
Speaker 3: luckier than a lot of other children. So but at
Speaker 3: the same time, there are children, and this is the
Speaker 3: problem that we're dealing with, and unfortunately they have to
Speaker 3: deal with it too. You know, that's just what a
Speaker 3: family is. Yea. Our goal is to stay together no
Speaker 3: matter matter what. We want to keep my husband safe,
Speaker 3: and we want to keep us together. That's our number
Speaker 3: one call. So unfortunately that may mean that we need
Speaker 3: to leave. And I will be very, very sad if
Speaker 3: that's the case, because I have always loved this country.
Speaker 3: It's always stood for greatness, and ironically, the group that
Speaker 3: thinks they're going to make America great again is failing miserably.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's incredibly sad. And like you said,
Speaker 1: you've already up and left your children want, yes to
Speaker 1: come to a safe place, to be safe, and then
Speaker 1: to have to do it again from that safe place,
Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll be and the order to get more
Speaker 1: than they realize what's happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's only two years later, you know, the poor kids.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. Who. I'm so sorry you're going through this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2: This sucks. We'll all be thinking of you.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much.
Speaker 2: And yeah, if you're listening, I will. I will try
Speaker 2: and keep you updated over the next few weeks.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: James, all right, thank you, thank you for your time.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. It Could Happen Here is a production
Speaker 3: of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,
Speaker 3: visit our website coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out
Speaker 3: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
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Speaker 3: Happen here listed directly in episode descriptions.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.