1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, you're welcome to Stuff to Blow 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: here's a quick question, Uh, in coming in to do 5 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: these podcasts, do you have any kind of a ritual 6 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: and kind of like do you have any lucky items 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: you bring with you? How do you prepare in terms 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: of superstition science podcast? Here's something that you never wanted 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: to know about. I used to wear lucky underwear, Okay, 10 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: but then I realized how ridiculous that was and I 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: quit the practice. Huh. Yeah, not of one wearing underwear, 12 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: but you know, specific pair. But yeah, I mean it's 13 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: very easy to attach meaning to something, right, And I 14 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: found myself and I think I'm pretty pragmatic right in 15 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: my thinking. And I found myself. Now you're like, no 16 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: underwear out underwear, out of mind? Um, But yeah, I 17 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 1: mean you can't help it sometimes make those associations, I guess, 18 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: I mean I can't. I mean I I on the 19 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: clothing front, I don't think I've ever experienced anything like 20 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: that because I tend to think of clothing and like, well, 21 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: this pair of pants is more comfortable than the others. 22 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: Uh So in that respect, like those will be my 23 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: lucky pants and when I feel when I wear them, 24 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: my body feels better and so lucky for you is comfortable. Yeah. Yeah, 25 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: But but there are other rituals that I do have. 26 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: I mean, not not so much rituals, but I guess 27 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: I'm I'm kind of there's something in me that's kind 28 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: of maybe an amulant junkie, like like I would I 29 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: feel like I could adapt really easily to say, like, 30 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: you know, like thaie amulet culture um. In fact, I 31 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: carry a ganisha a genisha in my pocket like a 32 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: little figuring the the overcomer of obstacles. Yeah, the the 33 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: Hindu god that people may recognize as having kind of uh, 34 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: you know, well very much an elephant look um and 35 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: standing on its vehicle is like a rat. It's not 36 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: that I like rubbed the figurine before each podcast or uh, 37 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: there's something about just I have to put it in 38 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: my pocket when I leave in the morning, and if 39 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: I don't watch myself, I'll accumulate other amulets along the way. 40 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,239 Speaker 1: It'll be like something that just doesn't make a particularly 41 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: large amount of sense. Like when we were like cleaning 42 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: out my uh, some of my father's stuff after he died, 43 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: there was this roll of silver dollars and these weren't 44 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: like dear to him or anything. I don't think I've 45 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: ever seen these silver dollars, but I ended up like 46 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: slipping one in my pocket and carried it with me 47 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: a lot for several months. And that makes sense to me, though, 48 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: because that's that's something that you know, it's um maybe 49 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: you're asso sitting it with your father and you wanted 50 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: to keep it close to you or you know, as 51 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: a symbol of it. But they were if I were 52 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: gonna like consciously set out to like, all right, I 53 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: will pick out an amulet that reminds me of my 54 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: father or is you know, I mean he gets into 55 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: the whole thing, the whole power of sympathy uh and 56 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: uh and the way our minds working, we ended up 57 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: attaching meaning to this, to an object that has come 58 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: into contact with somebody. So if I were to like 59 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: consciously say, what's an object that was dear to my 60 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: father that I could carry as an amulet, that would 61 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: not be it. Like, I don't know why that ended 62 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: up in my pocket for so long. Um, or sometimes 63 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: it will be like a particularly good day or a 64 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: good outing or you know, or a good date that 65 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: I've gone on with my wife, and I'll like pick 66 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 1: up a rock and it'll go in my pocket, and 67 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: not even a pretty rot, not like any kind of 68 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 1: like a fine quartz kind of thing or something that 69 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: would wind up on a geologist shelf, but I'll end 70 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: up like sticking in my pocket and it will become 71 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: kind of an amulet of that day. And so I 72 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 1: have to watch that and try and keep it to 73 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: just working tendencies. I don't think know if it's hoarding, 74 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: if they're um, if they're kind of like magical amulets, right, yeah, yeah, 75 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: And if it keepsakes, if you will, like tiny keepsakes 76 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: that remain on your person, right, that have have some 77 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: sort of power to you in some sense. Yeah, as 78 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: much as we hate to admit, these things do have 79 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: a power over us. And if you guys out there 80 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: haven't guessed it already, we're talking about that the science 81 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: of lucky pants. That's where we're coming back around to. Yeah, yeah, 82 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: that you know, we can't help but wear those lucky 83 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: pants or pick up that rock something that means a 84 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: lot to us, that makes us feel like, you know, 85 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: we've got some sort of control over the chaos of 86 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: our lives. Yeah, Like, what are some more that you've seen? Like, 87 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: because I like, I have a friend who does this 88 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: thing where if she is speeding through a red light, 89 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: well not really a red light, let's say a an 90 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: orange light, yellow light turning, you're give a nerve break there. Yeah, 91 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: she'll do this thing where she hits the roof of 92 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: the car like it's some sort of like a luck 93 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: thing to not get caught by a traffic cop. There's 94 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: the rub right, the luck, this idea that we are 95 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: actually getting some sort of magical luck from the ritual. Real, Yeah, 96 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: we're doing something to influence the outcome. Yeah, I was 97 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: thinking about the speed skater Chad Hedrick. He collects fortunes 98 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: from fortune cookies because before the two thousands six Games 99 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: in Turn, he got a fortune cookie that said your 100 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: golden opportunity is coming, and he went on to win gold, silver, 101 00:04:55,320 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: and bronze medals And now he hangs out with fortune 102 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: cookie fortunes in his pocket at any time. He's become 103 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 1: a fortune cookie junkie. Wow, how does he say in 104 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: shape eating all that all that cookie, you know, Oh, 105 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: I'm sure you know, he just probably called up his 106 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: local take out and you know, just chops through them 107 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: and doesn't necessarily eat him. I wonder I wonder be 108 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: gets irritated with the with the fortune cookies that don't 109 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: really have fortunes per se, but they're just kind of like, 110 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: here's a little bit of good advice. Um in mangled English. Yeah, 111 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 1: I get that on my tea sometimes my my tea package, 112 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: you know, the little tag on it. And it depends 113 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: on I can always tell what sort of mood I'm 114 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: in because either I'm like, oh that's beautiful, or I'm like, 115 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: oh man, just take it somewhere else. Yeah, or it's 116 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,679 Speaker 1: like that's not really cosmic insight. That's how am I gonna? 117 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: That's just good advice. That's just like saying something like 118 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: I don't know, um see, that's how devoid of feel 119 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 1: good or I end this morning. I can't think of 120 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: a of any kind of crappy little fortune cookie thing, 121 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: but but any rate, um, yeah, people do. It's early 122 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: this morning, it is kind of early. But yeah, so 123 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: so things of this nature, people collecting items, people performing 124 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: rituals people um, sticking to some sort of lucky garment. 125 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: And I do mean sticking to it literally because some 126 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: we know with the sports people that sometimes they don't 127 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: change their lucky socks right right, like baseball, uh baseball 128 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: sports people. How illiterate am I in in the field 129 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: of sports that I can't use the correct terminology, but 130 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: baseball people who won't change their socks, and it's terribly smelly. 131 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: I remember reading about there there was this pro wrestler 132 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: who wrestled by the name of Vader who it was 133 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: based out of Atlanta. I don't know if he lives 134 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: in the area or not. I think he's pretty much 135 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: retired now. But he was like this big, beefy, kind 136 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: of bull looking guy and supposedly there are people that 137 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: really hated wrestling him. Um. And you know this is 138 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: pro wrestling is all scripted violence going on with a 139 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: certain amount of improv But he his his shattering the illusion. 140 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: Sorry oh um, but his his lucky thing was to 141 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: not wash his wrestling outfit, his his his jumper. Yeah yeah, 142 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: And so it was a pretty horrendous at times. Well, 143 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: and that probably became a ritual that actually did start 144 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: to have some sort of actual effect, right, because yeah, 145 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: because you know, you don't want to get too close 146 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: to the guy or have the match go too long, right, 147 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: even if kind of punching in the face. Yeah, and 148 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: you're under his arm. Um. Okay. So there's a term 149 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: for this, and it's called apophenia, and it's seen patterns 150 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: and meaningless data. And we've talked about this before. Our 151 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: brains despised randomness. We try to organize whenever we can. 152 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: Whenever we see some sort of data in front of us, 153 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: we try to see patterns. We might have a grilled 154 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: cheese sandwich. We might think that it looks like the 155 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: Madonna on it. As I'm sure a lot of people know. 156 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: This was that on eBay. I think it was. I 157 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: think it was at some point, Yeah it was. I 158 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: mean it was at least after item because people thought, oh, 159 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: that looks like the Madonna burned into the grilled cheese sandwich. Yeah. 160 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: Our minds cannot help but make order out of chaos. 161 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: I mean, it's how we survive. It's you need to 162 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: be able to navigate this this world that we live 163 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: in and and put one in two together when in 164 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: ways that can often save a life. That can allow 165 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: us to get to work at all. Uh, you know, um, 166 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: it ends up ends up being little things like you 167 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: you know that that when you when you feel that 168 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: kind of weird wind coming down the train tracks at 169 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: a at a subway or train station, you're like, oh, well, 170 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: the trains about to get here. But then that's a 171 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: very logical one plus two equals three. But then in 172 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: other cases, uh, this ends up becoming what is called 173 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: a type one error where we end up um um 174 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 1: looking for signs that putting putting signs together that don't 175 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: really add up, but but we just think they do. 176 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: So Yeah. Actually, there's a Scientific American article called patternicity, 177 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 1: Finding Meaningful Patterns and meaning Less Noise, and Michael Shermer wrote, 178 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: our brains are involved pattern recognition machines that connect the 179 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: dots and create meaning out of the patterns that we 180 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: think we see in nature. Sometimes a really is connected 181 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: to be sometimes it's not. When it is, we have 182 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: learned something valuable about the environment from which we can 183 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: make predictions that aiden survival, survival, and reproduction. Unfortunately, we 184 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: did not evolve a Bologney detection network in the brain 185 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: to distinguish between true and false patterns, and I love that. 186 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: I thought, Yeah, we really do need a Bologney detection 187 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 1: network at this point. Yeah, I mean, it basically comes 188 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 1: down to the fact that that randomness just doesn't really 189 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: fit well with us. We don't we don't like the 190 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: idea of randomness. And ultimately, as many critics have pointed out, 191 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: like even a really chaotic system, there's there's order going 192 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: on in it, uh, And you can find order in 193 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: that system, but it's not always going to be in 194 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: in a predictive way. And this is called adventitious reinforcing. Again, 195 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: it's that accidental association between an outcome and whatever you're 196 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: doing at the time. Um So again you see that, 197 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: you know, people not change gene their dirty socks because 198 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: the big game is coming, and that's what they did 199 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: last time, and surely if they don't wear those same socks, 200 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: they will lose. Right. I wore dirty socks and my 201 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: team one. Therefore, my dirty socks altered physical reality, broke 202 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 1: every law of physics, and somehow made that team win. Therefore, 203 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: I need to make sure that I wear the same 204 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: dirty socks next week. But but now in these cases, well, 205 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: why not apply even more scrutiny to it and realize, 206 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: my socks need to be the same level of dirty 207 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: they are now, if they're more dirty, then maybe it'll 208 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: tip the balance. And then he ends up this like complicated. Well, 209 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: that's when it becomes a problem, because that's when you 210 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 1: can really kind of screw yourself, right, because you know, 211 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: what is first a talisman to kind of help you 212 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: through psychologically, when it becomes an obsession, then becomes obsession, 213 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: and then you could really kind of throw your your game, 214 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: so to speak. Um, I thought it was really interesting 215 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: that behaviors DF Skinner took this this up with pigeons. Yeah, 216 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: and he put a few half starved pigeons in a 217 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: box and put food pellets down a shoot at random intervals, 218 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: and the pigeons began to think, or at least he 219 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: thought this, because who knows what pigeons think, but he 220 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: assumed that whatever they did when the food arrives somehow 221 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: caused the food to arrive. So this is like they're 222 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: doing like little circles and stuff, right. Yeah. Yeah, he 223 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: said that one bird was conditioned to turn counter clockwise 224 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 1: about the cage, making two or three turns between reinforcements 225 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: and another repeatedly thrust its head into one of the 226 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: upper corners of the cage. A third developed a tossing response. 227 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: So it's kind of funny, like I don't like to 228 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: think of of myself as a pigeon, but you know, 229 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: looking at my past behavior and attaching meaning to things 230 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: don't necessarily have a meaning. It is sort of like 231 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: we're all pigeons, you know, in a cage making these 232 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: weird ritualistic turns to try to affect our environments. Um, 233 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: so it's really interesting. This is from a BBC article 234 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: Go figure why we think rituals can influence outcome? They 235 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: say the experiment might be said to demonstrate a sort 236 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: of superstition. The bird behaves as if there was a 237 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: alsal relation between his behavior and the present presentation of food, 238 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: although such a relation is lacking. Huh. Well, you know, 239 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: it reminds me a lot of our previous research into 240 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: build sea bows too, and certainly some of the literature 241 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: makes this correlation as well, because like it could be 242 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: something as simple as, uh, I need to be at 243 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: my mental best for this meeting that I have every week, right, 244 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: so I must have a you know, some sort of 245 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: an energy drink to boost me up. And then to 246 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: what extent is that energy drink actually increasing your performance? 247 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: And to what extent is it just a ritual, a 248 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: superstitious ritual that has to take place for you to 249 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: feel confident enough to go into the uh in into 250 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: the meeting, to get into the mindset. And um, and okay, 251 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:45,599 Speaker 1: you can make an argument that yeah, you're getting a 252 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: caffeine boost, but now replace the energy drink with a 253 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: like a rosary or you know, or or or a 254 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: little amulet or or some sort of magical ceremony you 255 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 1: perform on the floor in front of the meeting room 256 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: with chalk and candles or something. Yeah, And then I'm 257 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: just thinking that. And then you're on your way to 258 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: O C D and you start tapping three times you 259 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 1: know which you know again, I'm that's it's just interesting 260 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 1: to see how you can take this to the nth 261 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 1: degree and your behavior really begins to splinter a little bit, 262 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: this little spinking of knocking and splinters. There's the whole 263 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: knock on wood thing, right, That's like a classic example. 264 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: I don't think of myself as being particularly superstitious. You know, 265 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: I'll be talking about something and I'll accidentally, you know, 266 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: mention some sort of horrible thing that has not happened yet, 267 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: and then I'll be like, knock on wood, and then 268 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: i have to find wood to knock on, like it 269 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: just makes sense. Likewise, um, the whole salt shaker thinks, 270 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: spill some salt and you have to throw some over 271 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: your shoulders. I'll find myself doing that just because I'll 272 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: have spilt a little salt, and I'll be like, well, 273 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: it doesn't hurt, right, So I'll take like one grain 274 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 1: and then ill position myself so that if I throw 275 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,599 Speaker 1: it over my shoulder goes into the sink. So that 276 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: way I'm also not making a mess. I think the 277 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: roots of that are in um shamanism too, right, I 278 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: think that it's like to dispel evil spirits somehow. I 279 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: have that watched and one of one of the knooks there. 280 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: But I mean, I'm sure that many different cultures have 281 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: many different interpretations for the whole salt trick, but nonetheless 282 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: it's it's a ritual, right right. But but then again 283 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: I would not freak out of idea. Oh. Another one 284 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: is the of course, the stepping on a crack and 285 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: breaking your mother back, which I don't think there's ever 286 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: been a proven cause and effect with that. Like every 287 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: nobody actually believes that. I mean with anyone with a 288 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: with a healthy mind is not believe that they're they're 289 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: they're stepping on a crack will somehow harm the vertebrae 290 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: of their mother. But people do get been out a 291 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: shape about it if they in some cases, so I mean, 292 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: it's just if you end up letting it the um 293 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: get ahead of you. Yeah, and you see this too, 294 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: UM in extreme cases where if someone has lost a person, 295 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: they start to see signs everywhere of you know, they 296 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: might have I think I read something about it was, uh, 297 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: one guy who lost his son. His son committed suicide, 298 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: and he began to see signs in everything open clothes, 299 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: pin and uh, you know all these different UM like 300 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: forty five degree angle UM shapes, and he began to 301 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: think that that was pointing to the time that his 302 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: son had committed suicide. And again, this is you know, 303 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: this is us trying to have some sort of mastery 304 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: over what we can't control. Probably helped him a lot 305 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: to think, well, okay, there's there are signs that are 306 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: pointing just to at least tell me some aspect of this, 307 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: you know, the time that my son passed away, or 308 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: to get a better rooted feeling and what had happened. Um. 309 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: So it's interesting to see it in that way. You 310 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: can take that situation trying to master something you can't control, 311 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: and if you you transpose it back on some like 312 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: prehistoric setting. You know, some guy drugging through the woods, um, 313 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: and there is a predator out there that because will 314 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: eat him, or a human enemy, and your amount of 315 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: control over what is going to happen depends on your 316 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: ability to pick up signs in the world around you. Uh, 317 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: you know, the sound of footsteps in the dark, the 318 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: the the the silhouette of something against the moonlight, things 319 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: of that nature. Right, And so we're sort of hardwired 320 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: to air on that side, right, which is better for us, 321 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: because that's why we have gotten to the point where 322 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: we have right as a species. Because then it's a 323 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: false alarm and that's when we laugh. Right. According to 324 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: some of the theories about laughter, that laughter is a 325 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: response to say, oh, I'm not really in physical danger. Yeah, 326 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: it's a it's a release, yeah, and in a signal 327 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: to to other humans that oh, we're not really going 328 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: to die. It's all right. That wasn't really a savor 329 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: tooth tiger, but better to be sure are on the 330 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: side of cushion, like you said. That's right, that's I 331 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: mean behind every good joke is a is a false 332 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: savor tooth tiger in a way, right right, because it's 333 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: a benign threat. Trust no one. You heard it here? Yeah, 334 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: that's right. When we come back, we're going to talk 335 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: about Lady Luck and if she actually exists. This podcast 336 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: is brought to you by Intel, the sponsors of Tomorrow 337 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: and the Discovery Channel. At Intel, we believe curiosity is 338 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: the spark which drives innovation. Join us at curiosity dot 339 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: com and explore the answers to life's questions. All right, 340 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: and we're back. So Lady Luck LEO are not okay? Well? Uh, 341 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: Luck is not a lady tonight. I don't know. I mean, 342 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: it's it's a nice thought, right, likes a lady. She's 343 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: shining down on you. She has a bugle beat address 344 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: on Thank you for resisting the urge to break into song. 345 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: By the way, I mean, this podcast isn't over yet, okay. Uh. 346 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: There is an article called Apophania Definitions Analysis by Sandra L. 347 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: Hubsurance really interesting. She talks about the gambler's fallacy and 348 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: holds that in a sequence of random events, past outcomes 349 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: influence future outcomes. The off sided example is a game 350 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: of roulette where black has spun seven times in a row. 351 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: The players around the table begin to all the players right. 352 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 1: They all begin to feel that their luck is running 353 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: out and that the red is due soon or um, 354 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: that they're having a streak in black will continue to appear, 355 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: when in actuality, the probability of the next spin being 356 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: read or black is the same as ever. And this 357 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: you see this all the time at gambling. Right, there's 358 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: this idea that you know you've got good luck tonight. Um, 359 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: but that's kind of what gets us in trouble. And 360 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: according to psychology today, luck really actually wouldn't exist without 361 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: the following conditions. Okay, rabbit foot, rabbit foot, troll. You 362 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: have to take a chance in order to have a chance, 363 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: which is kind of a thing. It's like if you 364 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: don't play the lottery, you cannot win the lottery exactly. Um. 365 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: But it Studies show that when outcomes are in certain 366 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: pessimistic people tend to avoid these situations and are averse 367 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: to to risk, right, whereas optimistic people don't. So optimism 368 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 1: is actually necessary to take a chance. So not only 369 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: you have to take a chance, but you kind of 370 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: have to be like, yeah, hey, I'm taking a chance, right, Okay, 371 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: So it goes back to that optimism boost we're talking about. Yeah, 372 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: guy walks in to a casino. Guy feels confident enough 373 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 1: to play roulette because he has uh, you know, a 374 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 1: statue of in his pocket. Well, and even just map 375 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,679 Speaker 1: back to other times in your life where you felt lucky, Um, 376 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: something happened. The sequence of events. I always think about this, 377 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: always feels like something builds up to something happening, and 378 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: always like, oh, yeah, there's this pattern here. But the 379 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: fact of the matter is is that I happened to 380 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: be in the right place at the right time, But 381 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: not only that I was open to the experience and 382 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: had put myself out there or whatever it was. So 383 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 1: that's kind of how I think about it. You've got 384 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: the gambler, Yes, who's who. Yeah, they did it. They gambled, 385 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: so therefore you know they got a fifty percent chance 386 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: whether or not they're going to make good on it. 387 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: But that's about the same for anything that you try 388 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: to do in your life. Right, more or less, I think, yeah, 389 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: I guess what you're trying to do. Sometimes there's like 390 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 1: ten percent, sometimes seventy five percent, but still there's there's 391 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: a chance. There's a chance. Yeah. Uh. The second thing 392 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: is unexpected actions come from the subconscious. Your unconscious brain 393 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 1: may actually see what you need to see before your 394 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 1: conscious brain knows. This is called preemptive perception, and it's 395 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: thought to be subserved by part of the prietal lobe 396 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: of the brain. Yeah. This reminds me of of priming memory, 397 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: which is one of the types of memory that we've 398 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: talked about in the past, where you're not consciously aware 399 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: of it, but your brain is forming this, uh, this pattern. 400 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: It's associating one thing with the other. Yeah. And it 401 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: actually reminds me too of the free Will podcast that 402 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: we did when we talked about this the eye of ourselves, 403 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: the conscious that we are the last person to actually 404 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: learn what our decision is because all of these other 405 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: things are taking place in our brain that could have 406 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 1: been culminating there for an hour, year, or even ten years, 407 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: and so there's things going on under the surface that 408 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 1: are really helping to inform you. So we're like the 409 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 1: false memory, where we pointed out that some experiments have 410 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: have suggested that our brain knows when even though we 411 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: think a false memory is true, deep down our brain 412 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: knows of that false memory is false. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, 413 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: it's it's there's somewhere there's a center there in our 414 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: brains that can sniff out the difference. So at conscious level, 415 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: we're not putting one in two together about what's about 416 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: to happen. But below the surface, our brain already knows 417 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: or thinks it knows what's going to happen. And this 418 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 1: has been observed in studies in m r I, which 419 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: is really fascinating. So the psychology today is basically saying 420 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: when you next sense something that you should actually take 421 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: it seriously before you discard it, because there is some 422 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: sort of basis that instinct coting in right exactly. The 423 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,439 Speaker 1: third is to tap into your empathy. Oh yes, this 424 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: is of course, especially when you're dealing with other people. 425 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 1: You're playing a game poker or even something like you know, 426 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 1: scrabble or words with friends or or anything where there 427 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: is a human intellect on the other side. You're in 428 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: a hot water situation to write now that we're advocating 429 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: hot water situations. Yeah, like don't play scrabble in a 430 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: hot tube or be a jewel thief and then get caught. 431 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: Yeah okay, but but yeah, there's a there's a it's 432 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: a of cat and mouse and uh, and so you're 433 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 1: you're inevitably thinking about trying to think, what is the 434 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: other guy or gal? Uh, thinking about let me try 435 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: and put myself in their shoes so I can outsmart them. 436 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: I mean, this is basic. This is a basic h 437 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: principle of our cognitive architecture because so much of our 438 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: of our of our brain activity is devoted to trying 439 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: to determine how, say a prey animal is going to react, 440 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: how an adversary is going to react, how even how friends, enemies, 441 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: loved ones, uh, etcetera, how they're going to react, and 442 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: so so that we can tailor our behavior to reach 443 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: the most desired outcome. That's right. And this is theory 444 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: of mind. And we talked about it and I Don't 445 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 1: Eat the Panda podcast, which is basically like here, you know, 446 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: the ability to anticipate someone else's actions also necessitates empathy, 447 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: which in that case is why you sometimes feel bad 448 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,360 Speaker 1: about eating an animal. Right, that's the really boiled down 449 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: point there. But when when you're trying to sway your luck, 450 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: you have to be able to, like you say, inhabit 451 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: the other person's mind, and your brain can actually mirror 452 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: the intentions of people automatically. It's able to do this right, 453 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: and we already know this through mirror neurons. Of course. Yeah, 454 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: then it's going to be i don't know, five ten 455 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: years out before they can really you know, tinker without 456 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: to make it exact. But people who are more empathetic 457 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: may be better at doing this, and doing so may 458 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: accurately read what another person is going to do. And 459 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: again this could come in really handy with poker um. 460 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: On the flip side too, you can actually influence the 461 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: outcome of a situation by not radiating something like nervousness, 462 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: which would tip off the other person that they need 463 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: to observe you closer and they need to search for 464 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: a threat. So if you affect a sense of calm, 465 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: you're essentially faking it until you make it, which might 466 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: feel like luck to you, you know, if the other 467 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: person is buying into it, when in fact it's just 468 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: this complex symphony of functions in your brain that's being 469 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: carried out and you feel like you just got luck now. 470 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: And when it comes to uh, to thinking about our 471 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: brain's ability to perceive connections and make connections between um 472 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 1: sometimes diverse ideas, I can't help but think of creativity. 473 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: Which so much creativity, especially in the world where everything 474 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: has been done before, A lot of it boils down 475 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: to can I create new patterns? Um? You know, such as, oh, I, well, 476 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: the Exorcist has been done, Madman has been done. But 477 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: what if you combine the two and you have an 478 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: exorcist whose whole job is to remove advertising demons from 479 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: you know something that Draper is the exorcist or the demon? 480 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: Is he Reagan the child or both? I don't know this, 481 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: This idea hasn't been We'll get back to that. Yeah, well, 482 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: we don't want to give away the seekers who haven't 483 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: pitched it yet. But but yeah, so, so our creativity 484 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: works on establishing new patterns and new connections. So I 485 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: can't help but make the comparison here between that and 486 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: un luck. Yeah years uh. Peter Bruger as a neurobiologist, 487 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: and he's actually talked about this before and He says that, UM, 488 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: this this ability of creative people to link and associate 489 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: UM and prefer remote over close associations to the heart 490 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: of it really gets to the heart of UM creative thinking, 491 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 1: but also paranormal and delusional thinking. UM. And you know, 492 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: not that do you have to be delusional in order 493 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: to be creative and make all these patterns, but certainly 494 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,239 Speaker 1: there is a parallel there, right in both instances that 495 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: person is willing to really sort of run with the 496 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: pattern recognition that they see and spin off even more patterns, 497 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: which is, you know, one of the hallmarks of creativity 498 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: is we've have researched before, right, and not just fiction 499 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: based creativity, which is an easy model to turn to, 500 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: but creativity, say in a business setting where one is 501 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: seeing patterns in the in the marketplace and in consumer reactions, 502 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,959 Speaker 1: so that kind of thing. Bruger also found a connect 503 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: and with dopamine actually and levels of dopamine and people. 504 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 1: He found that people with high levels dopamine are more 505 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: likely to find significance and coincidence and pick out meaning 506 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 1: and patterns where there are none. In one trial in 507 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: which skeptics and paranormal believers were both given the drug 508 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: el dopa, which increases dopamine. The skeptics began to perform 509 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: much more like the believers in the studies, which I 510 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: think is fascinating. Wow. So huh, that's that's really fascinating. Yeah, 511 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: because and I mean I instantly think of like pumping 512 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: this into say a church environment, right, temple or environment 513 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: to just to sort of give people a little extra 514 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: boost to get superstitious about things. It also makes I 515 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: can't help but think of like someone going into see 516 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: a priest and uh and being like, father, um, I'm 517 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: having a crisis of faith, and then the the priest saying, 518 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: we'll hear, take take three of these. The should boost 519 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: dopamine levels and then you'll be good. You know. Wow, 520 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: Can I mean, can it get down to that level? Maybe? 521 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean not not that you could take 522 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: a pill and it would I think, you know, completely 523 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: change the way you view the world. But what we're 524 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: talking about here does underline some of those connections though 525 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: between between the chemical us. At a chemical level, it 526 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: does inform our perception, right. Yeah, So it's kind of fascinating. 527 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: I did want to make another um mentioned about creativity. Again. 528 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: This is from Sandra Hupture's article. She was talking about 529 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: creative innovation, and she was saying, you know again, it's 530 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: the ability to understand and express novel orderly relationships, and 531 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: that in fact, Leonardo da Vinci advised his students to quote, 532 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: look at walls covered with many stains, with the idea 533 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: of imagining some scene you will see in its similarity 534 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: to landscapes adorned with mountains, rivers, rocks, trees, plains, broad 535 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: valleys and hills of all kinds, also battles and figures 536 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: with lively gestures and strange faces and costumes, in an 537 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 1: infinity of things which you can reduce to separate and 538 00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: complex forms. Well it This, of course brings to mind constellations. 539 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: The pattern of the stars, of course intensely complicated, as 540 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: we discussed in the Shark episode. You know, NASA has 541 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 1: has complicated algorithmic programs designed to look at the night 542 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: sky and uh and make sense of it all, But 543 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: constellations very ancient form of looking at the stars and 544 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 1: making sense of it by at times desperately forming patterns 545 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: amid those stars to create something like a big dipper 546 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: or a guy with a bow and arrow, or or 547 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 1: you know, or some sort of an animal. Uh, and 548 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: I think you can. You can definitely make the case 549 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 1: that as out there, some of those connections are those 550 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: connections allowed have allowed us to more easily make sense 551 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: of a very complicated system in the sky up. Well, 552 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: and once you name it, don't you feel some sort 553 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: of level of comfort to mean? Um, I'm sure that 554 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: Again it's that trying to master your environment and feel 555 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: some sort of sense of control. Um. And it's not 556 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: all bad, right, I mean patterns again, that's that's that's 557 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: what's scotten is so far here. Yeah, it's a there's 558 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: we we live in a chaotic system, but one where 559 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: there are patterns. So it's just to the extent that 560 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: we can avoid overcompensating and and just finding um, unreal 561 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: patterns everywhere. Um. Then I think I think of it 562 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: as the continental drift theory. Like this is a good 563 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: example of why patterns are important. People looked at maps 564 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,479 Speaker 1: and they said, hey, wouldn't that piece fit here? I 565 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: bet those two places we're joined together. Yeah. Alfred Wagner, 566 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: who's actually the person who recognized the puzzle piece like 567 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: fit of a continents and came up with this theory 568 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: in part because of this pattern recognition, and of course 569 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: that sat around like thirty years or so before someone 570 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: was able to corroborate it with you know, other information. 571 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: But again, I mean, this is this is stuff that 572 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: can lead to breakthroughs if harnessed right, or it can 573 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: lead to cravy conspiracy theories that seriously damaged ones reputation. 574 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: It's yeah, yeah, it's a it's a power. You just 575 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: have to learn to use it, right. All right, Well, 576 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: let's see if any of our listeners got lucky and 577 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: I drew their listener mail. Here, let me turn it. Oh, 578 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: here we go. Let me grab this one, all right, 579 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: This one is from Lisa. Lisa says, may I start 580 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: off by saying that I absolutely love this podcast and 581 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: all the others from how Stuff Works. So see that 582 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: one was kind of like, oh, and then she likes 583 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: all of them stuff. I mean, but they're all great, Yeah, 584 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: they are awesome. Um, I like it would have been 585 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: different if she said, let me say that I absolutely 586 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: love this podcast and all other podcasts, then it feels 587 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: a little less special. But but no, no, yeah, we 588 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: take it and take your complict. I wouldn't be able 589 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: to make my quarter five minute drive to from work 590 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: every day without it. I recently listened to your podcast 591 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: on miss aphonia, and I was rather surprised this is 592 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: an actual diagnosed problem. I have never been to the doctor, 593 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: nor have I ever seen the need to be checked out, 594 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: because it has never really bothered me, bothered my day 595 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: to day life. But every time I hear someone's fingernails 596 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: scratching a car, I definitely react to it. I do 597 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: not simply cramp like you would if you heard a 598 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: chalkboard being scratched. Instead, it makes me feel like I 599 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: am going to turn inside out. We did a podcast 600 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: on that too, cry having done on a yet uh 601 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: and or gag, I think that's coming up all At 602 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: the same time, my younger brother used to do this 603 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: just a mess with me, and I would suddenly become 604 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: insanely in rage and start screaming for him to stop. Obviously, 605 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: this isn't a normal sound you hear when you were 606 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: around others, so it is never really interfered with my life. 607 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 1: I have always thought it was just a strong reaction 608 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: to a bad sound, but now I can't help but wonder. 609 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: Obviously I'm not going to try to diagnose myself. I'll 610 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: leave that up to a doctor. Thank you guys for everything. Oh, 611 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah. We received a lot of cool comments 612 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: regarding that episode we did, and it was really interesting 613 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: to hear people's take some of the things that really 614 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: bother them. And so many people have discovered that, yeah, 615 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: they could put a name to this, whether or not 616 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: you know it was actually dignified doctor yet or And 617 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: it opened up the door for a lot of listeners 618 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: to write in just tell us about annoying things in 619 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: their life, like my uncle as the worst cough let 620 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: me tell you so specific, like the one about the 621 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: socks in the carpet, And even though I'm like a person, 622 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, that doesn't annoy me at all, But 623 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: it definitely makes sense when you look at the at 624 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: the overall issue in the overall condition. Yeah. Um. We 625 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: also heard from Don. Don writs and says, I'm so 626 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: glad you did a podcast on misophonia. My whole life, 627 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: I've been told I have sensitive innards because of my 628 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: aversion to all sorts of sounds. I have always thought 629 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: that my husband was just a loud person. While he 630 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: does suffer from with allergies, of which causes him to 631 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: sometimes chew with his mouth opens a snort and breathe loudly. 632 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: My reaction is to want to run away or punch 633 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: him in the face. I am absolutely guilty of looking 634 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: him right in the eye to mock him with obnoxious 635 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: chewing and slurping noises so embarrassing. Funnily enough, when my 636 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: children were very small, I love the tiny sounds made 637 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: while eating as they ate. However, the sounds are becoming, 638 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: for lack of a better word, irritating. I also can't 639 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: stand the sound of water running out of a faucet, 640 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: which is probably why I allow my husband to be 641 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: in charge of the issues. It's nice to put a 642 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 1: name to the weirdness, thank you. Indeed, it is nice 643 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: to be able to put a name to the weirdness. 644 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: And as we discuss, I think that's the first step, 645 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: at least with with sort of normal, uh you know, 646 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: non clinical cases of this. That's the first step to 647 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: being able to control it, to be able to say, well, 648 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: this is you know, this is a this is what's 649 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: going on. This is at least some form of misophonia perhaps, 650 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: and this is how my brain is processing It is 651 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: how my brain is processing information. And if we're aware 652 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: of that, then we're in a better position to be like, well, 653 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: let's not let let me not get that, let they 654 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: get out of hand, let me not yell at someone 655 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: right again. You get to name it and then you 656 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: can control it to an extent. So yeah, if you 657 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: want to share anything with us, feel free to contact 658 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: is on Facebook or Twitter. We are blow the Mind 659 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: on both of those and we update those feeds regularly 660 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: with all sorts of cool stuff, and you can always 661 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,479 Speaker 1: drop us an email at blow the Mind at how 662 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Be sure to check out our 663 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join how Staff 664 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: Work staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing 665 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: possibilities of tomorrow.