Speaker 1: Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Hey everybody, and welcome to Movie Crush Friday Interview edition.
Speaker 1: And I'm sitting on a zoom screen across from Dan
Speaker 1: to Berski, uh, writer and filmmaker and podcaster. And I
Speaker 1: think maybe the best way to describe you as just storyteller?
Speaker 1: Is that fair? Sure you like that? Yeah? That's okay? Documentary?
Speaker 1: And how about documentary which is storyteller? Not did n't
Speaker 1: it pick? But you know, look, you're really hung up
Speaker 1: on the storytell think it's good to meet you. We
Speaker 1: just met like thirty seconds ago, so right. I learned
Speaker 1: you have small ears and that you hate storytellers totally, totally.
Speaker 1: That's all you need to know, Folks. Where are you from? Dan,
Speaker 1: New York? Originally born in Queen's Unk Territory and now
Speaker 1: you're in Brooklyn? Is that right? Right now? I'm in Brooklyn,
Speaker 1: but I live in Manhattan. I'm kind of curious about
Speaker 1: your I like to talk to guests about the movies
Speaker 1: of their youth and sort of what that what kind
Speaker 1: of impact that had on them? Is his future entertainers
Speaker 1: or or even if it did, and was that something
Speaker 1: that were you sort of a movie obsessed kid or
Speaker 1: I was not. Isn't it funny? I was. I It
Speaker 1: never occurred to me to do to sort of make
Speaker 1: any sort of art. Um until well into adulthood. What
Speaker 1: was I started public policy in college? Um? Uh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I worked in politics for a while. I worked
Speaker 1: at the White House for two years right out of college.
Speaker 1: Um and then uh, and then went into UM to
Speaker 1: journalism from there. So so I started, I started in politics,
Speaker 1: which I quickly realized was not for me. What which
Speaker 1: White House did you work in? It was a Clinton
Speaker 1: White House. I was the assistant to the president's economic advisor.
Speaker 1: Really okay, yeah, it was crazy. It was crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was really hard uh and really intense and I
Speaker 1: answered a lot of phones. Uh and it was like,
Speaker 1: um thrilling, but like incredibly difficult work. Now and I've
Speaker 1: spoken to another couple of people, including recently someone who
Speaker 1: worked in politics for a while where you're how how
Speaker 1: how did you go into that? Was it eyes wide open?
Speaker 1: And were they quickly were your I don't mean to
Speaker 1: say naive, but did you were you kind of smacked
Speaker 1: in the face with the reality of the situation. No,
Speaker 1: I you know, I sort of I understood, I think
Speaker 1: pretty well the politics of it, and politics and compromise
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. What I didn't under stand is
Speaker 1: that being political and working in politics required you to
Speaker 1: be political on a personal level too. So it required
Speaker 1: you to collect people, collect friends, collect uh it required
Speaker 1: you to really be outgoing and um um always thinking
Speaker 1: about what relationships can do for you and help you
Speaker 1: to move things forward. And I don't even begrudge people
Speaker 1: who do that. It's just not the way I think.
Speaker 1: And so I found that part to be a real
Speaker 1: slog like I don't want to I don't want to
Speaker 1: be I'm not that I'm not social enough in the
Speaker 1: simplest terms, I'm just I just don't want me that
Speaker 1: many friends. So uh So, is it a pretty quickly
Speaker 1: realized thing that like, I'm not gonna go far in
Speaker 1: this world because I can't play that game. It was
Speaker 1: I I joined the Clai administration and I stayed through
Speaker 1: the election in ninety six understanding that it was a
Speaker 1: super literally, like, you know, there aren't many things that
Speaker 1: one does that feels like an honor, but it it
Speaker 1: really does. It really does feel like that to walk
Speaker 1: in the White House every day or at least it
Speaker 1: did for me, and so I, you know, the experience
Speaker 1: of doing that was great, but I but I sort
Speaker 1: of knew that I didn't have I didn't have what
Speaker 1: it took to to to sort of be successful. And
Speaker 1: that was right out of college, so early twenties. That was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was my first job out of college besides pizzerie.
Speaker 1: You know, I was a waiter Atizzie you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: where did you go from their career wise? Uh? And
Speaker 1: then I went h I moved to New York and
Speaker 1: I worked at NBC news Um for two and a
Speaker 1: half years or three years, and then from there I
Speaker 1: went to the Daily Show. So I sort of had
Speaker 1: a a brief dalliance with with actual news um and
Speaker 1: then uh, my job quickly became making fun of the
Speaker 1: news of the Daily Show and and it sort of
Speaker 1: stayed in that sort of metau place. Now, was that
Speaker 1: with John Stewart was or was that still? Was that? Okay?
Speaker 1: It was, yeah, it was John. It was right when
Speaker 1: joh started. It wasn't with Craig Kilborn. He had he
Speaker 1: had left, and so I pretty much started when John started. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's cool, You're I've had a bunch of Daily show
Speaker 1: people in the show. Yeah, now that you had Elliott
Speaker 1: Kalin right had Elliott on, I've had um Well, John
Speaker 1: Hodgeman's a pal of mine, so he's been on a
Speaker 1: few times. And I'm trying to think it seems like, uh,
Speaker 1: Dan from the Flophouse has been on. Uh what's the Flophouse?
Speaker 1: The Flophouse is Elliott's uh movie show? Oh yeah, he
Speaker 1: has the movie podcast, a bad movie podcast where they
Speaker 1: were in his palace talk about a bad movie. It's
Speaker 1: pretty funny Dan Dan McCoy. I don't know why Dan
Speaker 1: slipping because dancer friend of mine too, And I don't
Speaker 1: know that one of the b I had Wyatt on
Speaker 1: Wyatt Sanac he was after my time. Yeah, and I've
Speaker 1: been trying to get Chad Carter's an old friend that
Speaker 1: I've been trying to get on. And I think Chad
Speaker 1: probably came on after you two. If he's an old friend,
Speaker 1: why won't he come on your show. I'm just it's
Speaker 1: been a minute and the pandemic kind of screwed everything
Speaker 1: up for a while. I'm just wondering if you're sort
Speaker 1: of judging the friendship. Oh no, it's great. Jed's awesome.
Speaker 1: What was the Daily show? Like, was that were you
Speaker 1: producing segments? I was a producer. Yeah, so I would
Speaker 1: travel around with a correspondence and direct and write the
Speaker 1: segments with them. So yeah, super fun and thrilling and
Speaker 1: often scary because you know, you're you're very often you're
Speaker 1: you're fooling people. Um and and so that and that
Speaker 1: was it was. That was early daily show days where
Speaker 1: people really didn't for the most part, people didn't really
Speaker 1: know what it was and they didn't sort of realize
Speaker 1: it until you're in the middle of it. So there's
Speaker 1: always like a light switch moment where they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is a joke. Um. And that could get yeah
Speaker 1: every once in a while, yeah, but usually I actually
Speaker 1: really uh, it gave me faith in people, Like of
Speaker 1: the time, people think it's great and people think it's
Speaker 1: funny and they and they totally and they totally. Um.
Speaker 1: People have good sense of humor. Uh. And just as
Speaker 1: long as you're not taking them down for no reason. Um.
Speaker 1: But and you're sort of the joke. The target of
Speaker 1: the joke is something else besides them personally, Like, I'm
Speaker 1: always surprised at how people sort of are are happy
Speaker 1: to be part of a larger joke. Yeah, uh so
Speaker 1: inteen you really kind of I think turned the podcast
Speaker 1: world on its ear with Missing Richard Simmons seventeen. What
Speaker 1: was it seventeen? Would I say fourteen? Yeah too? That
Speaker 1: unfourtune was serial? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that that turned the
Speaker 1: podcasting world on it's here too, yeah yeah seen. Uh which,
Speaker 1: you know, what were your expectations for that show? Did
Speaker 1: you think it was gonna blow up like it did? No?
Speaker 1: I thought it was uh no, my gosh, no, I
Speaker 1: mean no, it just seemed like the small it was.
Speaker 1: It was like a small yeah that like you really
Speaker 1: don't have any any reason why people would listen to it, really,
Speaker 1: if that makes any sense. And it felt like a well,
Speaker 1: it's well, it felt like a gesture that I was
Speaker 1: doing about this person that I thought was really important,
Speaker 1: special Richard Simmons. But but it it and then and
Speaker 1: then once it starts, once we started to put it out,
Speaker 1: it sort of attracted people in a way that we
Speaker 1: didn't expect. And then you realize you're sort of part
Speaker 1: of something that that isn't really yours anymore. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was really something else. I mean, it was, uh, it
Speaker 1: blew up in a really big way, and I imagine
Speaker 1: gave you sort of all the currency you needed in
Speaker 1: this new medium or new wish medium for you. I guess, uh,
Speaker 1: just sort of do whatever you wanted as a documentarian
Speaker 1: from that point, I mean, short answer, yeah, kind of,
Speaker 1: it really felt it did feel that way like it
Speaker 1: it felt like it had touched something and it either
Speaker 1: may maybe people either loved it or hated it, which
Speaker 1: I think is sort of an interesting place to be. UM.
Speaker 1: It means you're sort of you're you're tweaking something right,
Speaker 1: like you're you're sort of flicking people's ears in a
Speaker 1: way that sort of makes people stand up a little bit. Um.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, and so it definitely gave me the
Speaker 1: opportunity to work with really good people after that and
Speaker 1: and and continue to Um. People would take chances on
Speaker 1: sort of weird ideas, and it's a great place to be.
Speaker 1: I love doing and it's it's it's amazing to have
Speaker 1: people take chances on weird ideas. Yeah, and I think
Speaker 1: it was, you know, as someone who's been doing this
Speaker 1: for in my thirteenth year or so, it's interesting to
Speaker 1: see ideas come around that really shift the landscape of
Speaker 1: the industry, and I think Missing Richard Simmons is definitely
Speaker 1: one of those. And you can always tell when you know,
Speaker 1: podcasts are so quick to market and you can that's
Speaker 1: one of the cool things about this medium, as you
Speaker 1: can get something out the door really fast, you know,
Speaker 1: unless it's super sort of long game research heavy, but
Speaker 1: then you can still sort of start telling that story
Speaker 1: if you want to. And so that's a cool thing.
Speaker 1: But the weird part about that is that it lends
Speaker 1: itself to a lot of copycat material in content, I
Speaker 1: think and Richard and Missing Richard Simmons is one of
Speaker 1: those which is a compliment, but like it comes out
Speaker 1: and then I feel like a lot of people were like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, like, what's our missing Richard Simmons? Like
Speaker 1: and and maybe even sometimes as base of an idea
Speaker 1: is like who can we go out and try and
Speaker 1: find who was seemingly disappeared? Yeah, and then it's just
Speaker 1: a scary impulse. Yeah, Like you don't want people doing that.
Speaker 1: Like that's not like like we took a big We
Speaker 1: were really deliberate and how we went into that project
Speaker 1: and I and I and I had enough information and
Speaker 1: and enough contact with the people who close to Richard
Speaker 1: and and and the people involved in his life that
Speaker 1: that I had certain I had certainty about things that
Speaker 1: I think, Um, we were just very we want to
Speaker 1: do it, very wide open and very considered, and I
Speaker 1: think I think it's a it's a and we we
Speaker 1: walked a fine line for sure. And but yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean now, yeah, very often you hear like what happened
Speaker 1: to this guy? I get, I get, I get missing
Speaker 1: Britney Spears tweets all the time. People people want to know,
Speaker 1: like Dann go find Britney Spears, and I'm like, she's fine.
Speaker 1: I don't need that fight like she's isn't she in
Speaker 1: Las Vegas or something like. People have a real sense
Speaker 1: of like that that this was that it's not something
Speaker 1: I don't think it's something I would ever do again.
Speaker 1: So it was just that that person in that situation, Um,
Speaker 1: it's definitely not a model that I've been asked to
Speaker 1: sort of recreate that model, and that was going to
Speaker 1: ask that. I'm sure, Yeah, it's not even something I mean,
Speaker 1: if it comes up, I guess, but like it's not,
Speaker 1: it would never happen again because I was I was
Speaker 1: the only reason I did that is because I knew
Speaker 1: Richard Simmons, and I was taking his class for a
Speaker 1: year and a half, and and it was I was
Speaker 1: sort of involved in that world, and so I wasn't.
Speaker 1: I was much much, much less of an outsider than
Speaker 1: like a normal documentary would be. I don't think I
Speaker 1: would ever have the courage or the balls to like
Speaker 1: to do something like that if I didn't, if I,
Speaker 1: if I didn't know, if I, if I, if I
Speaker 1: was this coming in from the outside and parachuting in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Another show that you've done, which I have yet to
Speaker 1: listen to, which I'm putting at the top of my
Speaker 1: list is Running from Cops, because Cops is this show
Speaker 1: that I, um and I never knew when it came
Speaker 1: on it was. Cops is one of those shows it
Speaker 1: seems like it was always on, but if you were
Speaker 1: someone who flipped around a television dial, then you would
Speaker 1: run into it. And I felt like I ran into
Speaker 1: it a lot enough to watch it a lot without
Speaker 1: being someone who was like, Oh, it's whatever night, at
Speaker 1: whatever time, I got to check out Cops. And it's
Speaker 1: a show that that I feel bad for watching so
Speaker 1: much now through today's lens. When I was you know,
Speaker 1: younger and in my twenties, and I was never like raw, raw,
Speaker 1: this is awesome, man, like you know what they're doing.
Speaker 1: It was just there was something about it, the spectacle
Speaker 1: of it. I was definitely into. And I would love
Speaker 1: to know a little bit more about this project. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that was the point of the project. Is
Speaker 1: that I you know, I asked it that I've seen
Speaker 1: maybe five hundred episodes of Cops and this is before
Speaker 1: the show. I mean, I just watched it. I'm somebody
Speaker 1: who grew up watching television as background noise, and so
Speaker 1: I just I'm used to having something on and um,
Speaker 1: and Cops is like perfect, it's on. It's it was
Speaker 1: at the time, it was on fifteen, sometimes twenty times
Speaker 1: a day. Yeah. Yeah, so you're not hot. Your senses
Speaker 1: do not lie. It literally is on all the time.
Speaker 1: And there is something as far as reality shows go,
Speaker 1: there was the sense that you really, you really are
Speaker 1: watching something real. They're like that had the elements of reality,
Speaker 1: elements of realness to it that other reality shows don't have.
Speaker 1: And and and they also they're training their cameras on
Speaker 1: a on a world that you don't see, that you
Speaker 1: don't really see another reality shows like these are working class,
Speaker 1: poor neighborhoods and and people who aren't usually UM sort
Speaker 1: of featured in a way that you could sort of
Speaker 1: hear or see about them. But then of course you realize,
Speaker 1: like it's it's and still the project was to explore
Speaker 1: that show. We watched, ultimately watched and analyzed and catalog
Speaker 1: eight forty seven episodes I think it was UM and
Speaker 1: just sort of trying to figure out how realist cops,
Speaker 1: what is it we were actually seeing UM and uh
Speaker 1: and uh, yeah, it's it's it's an incredibly fucked up show,
Speaker 1: UM that does incredibly fucked up things to the people
Speaker 1: who are on it. UM. I have a complicated relationship
Speaker 1: to that show, but UM, but it was it was
Speaker 1: an analysis to exactly what you said, like why why
Speaker 1: am I watching UM? And how are they doing it?
Speaker 1: Like how are they allowed to how is it put together?
Speaker 1: And who's actually like sort of consenting to be a
Speaker 1: part of it? UM, And the answers to that are
Speaker 1: are pretty intense. Man, so good, it's so good. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I mean, I shouldn't say that about
Speaker 1: my own word, but I'm so proud of it and
Speaker 1: and um, and if you're interested in the show, it's
Speaker 1: just like about the history of of policing on television
Speaker 1: and reality shows and just and how it intersects with
Speaker 1: actual criminal justice and what what you actually think is
Speaker 1: true versus not. Um. And it's been on for thirty
Speaker 1: years and so so it has the influence it has
Speaker 1: not just on on just on reality shows, but on policing.
Speaker 1: Like literally, cops become cops because of what they see
Speaker 1: on Cops and so the behavior that they're mimicking is
Speaker 1: the things that reality shows are telling them to mimic.
Speaker 1: It's it's sort of an incredible long term experiment that
Speaker 1: has gone horribly wrong. Yeah, I'm gonna be diving into
Speaker 1: that soon for sure. UM. I want to talk to
Speaker 1: you about the line too. Now this is your this
Speaker 1: is Is it currently still in production? Uh? It's There
Speaker 1: was six episodes. The last episode aired a couple weeks
Speaker 1: ago early May. Um, where did this story come from?
Speaker 1: And where do your stories come from? Generally? Is it
Speaker 1: just literally whatever piques your interest? Running from Cops was
Speaker 1: my idea, Mr Richard Simmons, is my idea. And then
Speaker 1: I sort of found partners and collaborators to sort of
Speaker 1: make it with UM. The line was actually the first
Speaker 1: one that wasn't my. It was brought to me by
Speaker 1: Apple and Alex Gibney, the director, and they asked me
Speaker 1: if I would be interested in sort of tackling this UM,
Speaker 1: and I just kind of spent a month, uh looking
Speaker 1: back at the Eddie Gallagher trial. It's about the Navy
Speaker 1: seal Eddie Gallagher and the war crimes trial that he
Speaker 1: was involved in. And and but it also just becomes
Speaker 1: much larger about forever wars and what it is that
Speaker 1: we're asking people to do when they go out and
Speaker 1: fight covertly, UM, especially in the way the wars have
Speaker 1: been fought in the past twenty years since nine eleven. UH.
Speaker 1: And so it just becomes a much larger look at UM.
Speaker 1: You know, what's what is the line between combat and
Speaker 1: war crimes? Right? And what is our complicity in that?
Speaker 1: UM So fascinating, UM intense UM. We talked to her
Speaker 1: fifty special operators, the Navy Seals who are in it's
Speaker 1: just an incredible, incredibly UM, incredibly unusual people UM, and
Speaker 1: anybody who people who people who can do what they
Speaker 1: do and people who have experienced the things they experience, um,
Speaker 1: regardless of any of the politics around it. It is
Speaker 1: just fascinating. That's a fascinating so of dive into that world. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting and that you like, uh, with stuff you
Speaker 1: should know. I feel like we covered this these short
Speaker 1: broad overviews of topics, and we've done a couple of
Speaker 1: thousand of them at this point, so it's a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff. But it's you know, we're always treading in
Speaker 1: sort of the shallowest waters because of the nature of
Speaker 1: the show. You know, it's we've got to spit something
Speaker 1: out in forty five minutes, which is a good overview,
Speaker 1: and you get to really dig in there. And uh,
Speaker 1: I'm jealous in a lot of ways that of that
Speaker 1: kind of deep dive journalism. It's something that really has
Speaker 1: always interested me and I found myself and I love
Speaker 1: what I do with stuff you should know. But you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, the grass is always greener,
Speaker 1: I think in this day. But I could also see,
Speaker 1: you know, when you're living and breathing this stuff that
Speaker 1: must get tough sometimes. Yeah, it was. It was a
Speaker 1: dark year because I had started doing this project and
Speaker 1: then the pandemic came into then I ended up doing
Speaker 1: it all from my you know, my attic soundproofd room.
Speaker 1: Uh and and um, and it's it's pretty heavy. It's
Speaker 1: it's it's very very very heavy, and you're talking to
Speaker 1: people who have You're not just hearing about intense things.
Speaker 1: You're talking to the um to the people who experienced them,
Speaker 1: and they're they're telling you where their heads are at
Speaker 1: now and and they're and they're allowing you in in
Speaker 1: that sense. Uh and and so yeah, it was it's
Speaker 1: it's it's incredibly heavy. But but also like then that's
Speaker 1: that then you're sort of then you just have you
Speaker 1: spend all this time talking to these people, and then
Speaker 1: you you really do have tools to look at a
Speaker 1: story in a situation and the world and that that
Speaker 1: that specific world in a really complete way and have
Speaker 1: confidence to sort of make a estimates and actually here,
Speaker 1: here's what I think is going on. And so it
Speaker 1: really is a process of like just trying to understand
Speaker 1: um and uh, yeah, it's great, But I agree with
Speaker 1: grass is always greener. I would love every once in
Speaker 1: a while, I'm just thinking, boy, I would love to
Speaker 1: I would love to just talk about something different area, right,
Speaker 1: and just you know, uh, but that's that's that is
Speaker 1: not that is not where I ended up. When do
Speaker 1: you know? I feel like we have some listeners who
Speaker 1: probably um either have interest in making documentaries or have
Speaker 1: done so themselves, and it's something that might interest me,
Speaker 1: you know, on down the line in the future. And
Speaker 1: I think you tell stories so well. And I've always
Speaker 1: wondered when you know that you're done, does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Like when do you know that you have told the
Speaker 1: story in is complete a way as you desire? Well,
Speaker 1: there's all I mean, uh, in no small part is
Speaker 1: because of the deadlines that are that you set and
Speaker 1: that other people set for you, and and that that
Speaker 1: it is important um uh to sort of put a
Speaker 1: put a cap on it, because you could really spend forever. Um.
Speaker 1: For me, it's it's this is gonna sound really dippy,
Speaker 1: and I don't usually sort of like express this verbally,
Speaker 1: but who cares. Uh, it's sort of like, um, instead
Speaker 1: of it's you think about it like you're investigating a
Speaker 1: feeling like the Eddie Gallagher story and the story of
Speaker 1: Eddie Gallagher and the story of the seals and the
Speaker 1: story of war. It gave me. It made me feel
Speaker 1: a certain way I really couldn't decide how I felt
Speaker 1: about it. And I thought I felt like I was
Speaker 1: seeing something that other people weren't expressing, and that and that,
Speaker 1: and then once you can get that feeling out of
Speaker 1: your head and into sort of like five hours of audio,
Speaker 1: um and and that it sort of reflects what was
Speaker 1: in your head, then that to me is done. I'm
Speaker 1: not even really thinking about the listener as I make
Speaker 1: and I'm more thinking, is this what I'm thinking? And
Speaker 1: and and there's something, there's something that feels complete about
Speaker 1: just like, Okay, I can put it away now because
Speaker 1: here's how I feel about it. Even if you don't
Speaker 1: come up with answers, and I rarely do, they're rarely answers, um.
Speaker 1: But just the exploration of it, to have that feeling
Speaker 1: with the music and the people you talk to and
Speaker 1: the and the writing you do around it and all
Speaker 1: that stuff. If it feels altogether in a composite like
Speaker 1: that feeling that's in your head, then you're done. That's
Speaker 1: not differ I think that's a great answer. All right, good, Thanks,
Speaker 1: What's what's next? Can you talk about it? Or do
Speaker 1: you got some ideas that you're have tucked away? I
Speaker 1: I am working on. I'm working on something right now
Speaker 1: that will come out in a couple of months that
Speaker 1: I can't I guess I can't really talk about it now, um,
Speaker 1: but but I think it's gonna be good, great I'm
Speaker 1: knocking on with if you can hear that, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: hope fantastic, great partners. Yeah, so it's it's it's gone good.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. I bet that's fun too to um to
Speaker 1: work with different people on different projects. And you know,
Speaker 1: I used to work in the film industry, so I
Speaker 1: sort of missed the days of putting together a crew
Speaker 1: of people and doing a thing that lasts a certain
Speaker 1: amount of time, and then graduating from that and moving
Speaker 1: on and uh working with new great people. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then having them like the whole. I mean, it's so
Speaker 1: interesting to talk about my work in these situations, but
Speaker 1: then to be working with people who are who are
Speaker 1: just it really is a collaborative process and in a
Speaker 1: really great way like that you can just let go
Speaker 1: of parts of it and let other people let let
Speaker 1: their opinions and sort of informed the project. And I
Speaker 1: really like that part. Um. If if you have the
Speaker 1: right partners, it's it's really satisfying, amazing. All right. So
Speaker 1: when I sent you the email O, our buddy Mangesh
Speaker 1: got us together, which is very great. Man Guesh is
Speaker 1: such a good person and good connector of people. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You sent me a few movies, including one that I
Speaker 1: did not get to watch that I can't wait to
Speaker 1: see though, the documentary about the unearthed film Oh, Dawson City,
Speaker 1: Frozen in Times. Yeah, I can't wait to see this. Oh,
Speaker 1: it's so incredible. It's basically a documentary about about a
Speaker 1: town in the Yukon uh and and and and that
Speaker 1: sort of They found a trove of old movies that
Speaker 1: almost all of them are are gone, except for those
Speaker 1: prints that they had buried in the ground and that
Speaker 1: had preserved because it was so cold up there. Uh.
Speaker 1: And it's just um, it's it's a look at at
Speaker 1: the growth of this town, um, Dawson City. And and
Speaker 1: at the same time using those old film clips to
Speaker 1: sort of illustrate that history. There's no words, it's only
Speaker 1: text on screen. But it's just one of those films
Speaker 1: that gets it feels like it can see the whole
Speaker 1: world like you just you just you feel like you
Speaker 1: can see everything for a second, in and it's just, uh,
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. I like practically stock
Speaker 1: that guy like I. I talk about that movie way
Speaker 1: more than is appropriate. Well, I can't wait to see it.
Speaker 1: I think I feel bad that I chickened out a
Speaker 1: little bit because it was a movie without dialogue, and
Speaker 1: I have a feeling once i'll see it, i'll probably
Speaker 1: email you again and you want to come back on
Speaker 1: and we'll talk about it. Yeah. Yeah, it's really it's
Speaker 1: a it's a it's really moving and stuck with me
Speaker 1: still to this day. But what I did jump on
Speaker 1: was the Mike Nichols film Working Girl, because it's a
Speaker 1: movie that I somehow never saw. It's it's one of
Speaker 1: those movies that I felt like I saw because it's
Speaker 1: I knew the plot and it was such a big hit.
Speaker 1: Um And the only thing I can figure out is
Speaker 1: that I was seventeen and it it's not a real
Speaker 1: seventeen year old kind of movie. It's a movie for adults.
Speaker 1: And they used to make those at one point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not funny, you can't. It doesn't fit anywhere right now.
Speaker 1: I know. I talked about that a lot, like adult
Speaker 1: films and how they just used to make more mature content,
Speaker 1: uh movies for like you know, people that are thirty
Speaker 1: and up. But um, I watched it today for the
Speaker 1: first time, and I loved it. It was so great.
Speaker 1: Isn't it great? It really is. I I just I
Speaker 1: just couldn't love it more. What's what's your experience? When
Speaker 1: did you see it first? Just what's your back? You know?
Speaker 1: I actually I was thinking about that today. I actually
Speaker 1: saw it in the theater, which is strange because I
Speaker 1: I think I was like sixteen. If it was eighty eight,
Speaker 1: I was fifteen, which is why is the fifteen year
Speaker 1: old seen this movie? Um? But I remember that I
Speaker 1: thought I saw it in the quad on Northern Boulevard
Speaker 1: and Queens. I remember. I remember seeing it. Um, I remember.
Speaker 1: And the reason I remember is because we were such
Speaker 1: a little ship. I remember back then we would we
Speaker 1: would like sit in the back of the theater and
Speaker 1: like try to smoke cigarette, like as if as if
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna know, or like cigarette from yeah, I bother
Speaker 1: everybody like and that you wouldn't care. Um, and so
Speaker 1: I do. Were watching it then, But that wasn't where
Speaker 1: my love for it. My love for it sort of
Speaker 1: came later as one of those films that just appeared
Speaker 1: on television a lot. Yeah. Um, and so again, like
Speaker 1: as somebody who likes tell I like to I I
Speaker 1: this has changed. But I used to be. I'm not
Speaker 1: a big necklace person, not a big I changed person.
Speaker 1: I like television and I went, it's on, I want
Speaker 1: to catch it, and I want I'll watch it from
Speaker 1: the middle. I just I want to I want to
Speaker 1: watch some one that I feel like other people are watching.
Speaker 1: There's something about that interesting. Yeah, isn't that weird? I
Speaker 1: like the commercials not, I just like the I like that. Um,
Speaker 1: and Working Girl is sort of a usual suspect for that.
Speaker 1: And it's just such a great movie. It's just it's
Speaker 1: so well done. Yeah. I mean I feel like I
Speaker 1: almost had to avoid seeing this movie because it is
Speaker 1: one of those sort of HBO specials that ran forever
Speaker 1: on HBO. Yeah, it was fun today to see a
Speaker 1: little bit of a blast from the past, just as
Speaker 1: far as the you know, the styles and the hair
Speaker 1: and it was I mean, that was my high school
Speaker 1: that I was looking at. You know, every girl I know,
Speaker 1: their senior picture was was Joan Cusack's hair with the
Speaker 1: big hair it was amazing and it's so funny. If
Speaker 1: you look back at that movie now, it reads like
Speaker 1: a parody, like because the secretary is it reads like
Speaker 1: that they're doing their hair is super big, because they're
Speaker 1: trying to be funny and like as if they were
Speaker 1: doing like a movie making fun of twenty years before,
Speaker 1: and it's not. They're making fun of that time. That
Speaker 1: is what people look like. Yeah, that's exactly the style. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was fantastic. It was fantastic. Yeah. I had friends
Speaker 1: like that too. Oh the hair, Yeah, it's pretty great. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Mike Nichols to me is uh. I hesitated to call
Speaker 1: him underrated because he's gotten like Lifetime Achievement awards. He's
Speaker 1: certainly not undervalued or underrated, but I do feel like
Speaker 1: his name should come up more when you're talking about
Speaker 1: best directors of all time when you look through his filmography,
Speaker 1: and I think one reason is because he's sort of
Speaker 1: disappears into his work in the best way that a
Speaker 1: not a director should. Because I also love at tours
Speaker 1: who are like, hey, this is a Paul Thomas Anderson
Speaker 1: movie and you know it from the second you sit down.
Speaker 1: But I do love that Mike Nichols is not showy
Speaker 1: and that he's not interested in making it about himself. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. I mean it doesn't um, it doesn't feel. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't see him at all, especially in this movie
Speaker 1: because the characters are um like Sigourney we were, Mellian
Speaker 1: Griffith and Harrison Ford, like just all three of them
Speaker 1: are just like they're almost like cotton candy, Like they're
Speaker 1: just like they're just they just look they just like
Speaker 1: it is. It is just so about them, uh, in
Speaker 1: a great in a great way. Uh. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: he seems like he puts all of his focus on
Speaker 1: highlighting them. He does, and I think his stories that
Speaker 1: he tells are so human like. That always seems to
Speaker 1: be the common common element to me for Mike Nichols.
Speaker 1: Film is there about people? And what other films are
Speaker 1: you thinking of? Well, I mean certainly the Graduate, Um,
Speaker 1: I think I love Biloxi Blue is. Of course that's
Speaker 1: a Neil Simon jam so that's got its own sort
Speaker 1: of specific tone to it. Um, what other movie I
Speaker 1: was looking there here? I'm typing real quickly. You don't
Speaker 1: usually do this. Who did an ishtar It was not
Speaker 1: like Nichols because I want to talk to that guy.
Speaker 1: I've never actually seen Istar. I think I haven't either,
Speaker 1: and I have I do have a friend and kind
Speaker 1: of repeat guests who wants to talk about in Star.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna take him up on that at some point.
Speaker 1: Apparently apparently it's not as bad as everybody says. That's
Speaker 1: what I've heard he did. Silk Wood. Silk Wood is
Speaker 1: so good, great movie. Can't you know? You can't see
Speaker 1: that movie now? Oh? Is it not available? You can't
Speaker 1: see it on Amazon? You can't. I've tried many times.
Speaker 1: You got to go to the videos. So I always
Speaker 1: want to see Shared playing in Wesbian. I love that
Speaker 1: whole thing and the scrubbing scene, and like again, I
Speaker 1: like to just watch movies that I've seen before, and
Speaker 1: they just and you can't get it anywhere. It's really
Speaker 1: frustrating for me, you know, I think, I mean, you've
Speaker 1: about to be able to rent it, right if you
Speaker 1: can find yours? You cannot. Oh, it's not even if
Speaker 1: you define soul. Yeah, okay, you can't rent it. You
Speaker 1: can't rent to the Amazon iTunes, it's not on Netflix.
Speaker 1: You can't get no, but physically no, can you go
Speaker 1: to a video store, like there's still video stories. We
Speaker 1: got a great one in Atlanta. Well, dude, if that's
Speaker 1: if that counts is like yeah, like I can take
Speaker 1: out my projector Okay, alright, I'm talking about reasonable reasonable ability. Yeah, alright,
Speaker 1: good point. Um. He did Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf
Speaker 1: in the sixties. Yeah, And he doesn't have a feeling
Speaker 1: as a director though. I think he's not one of
Speaker 1: those people that that has like a a genre that
Speaker 1: he sticks to. He's done kind of some crazy things
Speaker 1: over the years that that he just sort of disappears into. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think he's an egot winner. What did he win?
Speaker 1: Was it for the graduate? Did he win his his? Oh?
Speaker 1: I think he won the oh uh And I'm not
Speaker 1: sure about the E G and the T either, but
Speaker 1: he isn't he isn't believe it. Yeah. Yeah, the great
Speaker 1: Mike Nichols um great cast in this movie. It's it's
Speaker 1: just sort of stacked, and it was It's kind of
Speaker 1: fun to go back and see young Oliver Platt and
Speaker 1: uh and and Kevin Spacey just way over acting in
Speaker 1: his one scene sort of put to an obnoxious point. Well,
Speaker 1: he's playing it on an axious person. He did it, well, Yeah,
Speaker 1: kudos to you. Yeah, like yeah, shorting cocaine and drinking champagne.
Speaker 1: It was, it was. It was pretty bad. Totally. Apparently
Speaker 1: Milan Griffith was doing cocaine all through that movie. Did
Speaker 1: you read about that? I just I was like, I
Speaker 1: just did a quick, a little little wickie whatever. Yeah. Apparently,
Speaker 1: like there was there was a whole fit, like she was.
Speaker 1: She's talked about it that like she she basically had
Speaker 1: a cocaine problem at the time, and and there was
Speaker 1: a point where she came in. This is a story
Speaker 1: that that that I I'm assuming that this is a
Speaker 1: quote from her, so I'm assuming it's true, um, that
Speaker 1: she came in high on coke and they shut down
Speaker 1: the set for they said, and and this was like
Speaker 1: she was a young actress, like this is not They
Speaker 1: shut it down because of her, and Mike Nichols took
Speaker 1: her to breakfast the next morning and said, here's the deal,
Speaker 1: We're not going to tell anybody about this. You're paying
Speaker 1: for the cost of what we had to shut down.
Speaker 1: And she did it apparently, Yeah, and she said it
Speaker 1: was a real lesson for her. Um. And apparently but
Speaker 1: apparently after that Mike Nichols was on coke the whole
Speaker 1: time too. No, no, I think that wasn't his new
Speaker 1: book that that Mark harristers for it. Oh boy, he
Speaker 1: just does not seem like the type. Well it was
Speaker 1: eight Well nobody everybody was the type. Yeah, totally. Oh wow,
Speaker 1: that's crazy. Um. It's a movie that sort of mirrored
Speaker 1: Melanie Griffith in some ways, Like I don't think she
Speaker 1: was taken very seriously as an actor at the time,
Speaker 1: she was overly sexualized, she really needed this job, and
Speaker 1: so many of those things sort of aligned with the
Speaker 1: character of Tests. Uh that it sort of makes sense
Speaker 1: and was perfectly cast. And I don't think I don't
Speaker 1: think she's known as like one of our great actors,
Speaker 1: but she was really great in this movie. Lovely um
Speaker 1: and a sort of guileless. Is that that what that
Speaker 1: word means? So yes, she she's wonderful. And it's interesting
Speaker 1: about I was seeing about the the sex in the
Speaker 1: movie that like how sexualized she was. And another thing
Speaker 1: that makes this movie unusual is is that it's not
Speaker 1: clear who the audience is. If the audience is supposed
Speaker 1: to be men or women, Like there there are scenes
Speaker 1: where she's sexualized, but it's always sort of jokey, like
Speaker 1: he buys her like the silly underwear to put on,
Speaker 1: and she puts it on, and so it's not like
Speaker 1: a bombshell, it's sort of like she looks like a
Speaker 1: dipshit a little bit and like and then there are
Speaker 1: scenes where Harrison Ford he's taking off a shure and
Speaker 1: you can tell that they just want that that that
Speaker 1: they wanted the audience to eat it up. So it's
Speaker 1: like they there's a sort of parody to the to
Speaker 1: the to the way they sexualized people in this movie,
Speaker 1: which I which I really admire, and especially considering this
Speaker 1: eight when women were I mean you really had to
Speaker 1: put yourself off out there is just a sex a
Speaker 1: piece of sexual meat to be looked at as an
Speaker 1: actress in a lot of these movies. Um and and
Speaker 1: the fact that that didn't quite happen for her is
Speaker 1: I think it is says good things about my Nichols. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is an interesting movie in that way because it's
Speaker 1: sort of it's making a statement about that sexualization. But
Speaker 1: like you said, I mean there I can't think of
Speaker 1: many movies that have more lingerie in them than this.
Speaker 1: It's she's got in a couple of scenes, Courney Weavers
Speaker 1: wearing lingerie in a couple of scenes, and Melanie Griffiths
Speaker 1: vacuuming in her underwear and no shirt in one scene.
Speaker 1: She says that was her idea. I think I read
Speaker 1: that she said that was her idea. Yeah, and she said,
Speaker 1: you know this is she said it was because it
Speaker 1: was real, because like, I wouldn't be doing that in
Speaker 1: my office suit, Like if no one's around, I would
Speaker 1: just take my clothes off and do it because that
Speaker 1: would make more sense. Yeah, because she wouldn't get dirty.
Speaker 1: I just don't understand how you wear that sort of
Speaker 1: underwear because it was sort of like the thing with
Speaker 1: the clips and stuff. Don't even know like that just
Speaker 1: oh really it was I don't even know what they
Speaker 1: call it, like Eri, no, no, what you mean, like
Speaker 1: garter belt and stuff. Yeah, yes, garter belts. It's like clips,
Speaker 1: like the clips. Doesn't make sense. But this sort of
Speaker 1: is evidence in this one critic at the time, I
Speaker 1: read this article from I think it was The Guardian,
Speaker 1: a working Girl at thirty from a few years ago,
Speaker 1: and it talks a bit about this sexualization and sort
Speaker 1: of the time and in a male movie critic wrote
Speaker 1: with her flouzy face, her CuPy doll voice, her made
Speaker 1: for bed bod, and a general demeanor suggesting she was
Speaker 1: born already knowing the comma Suture by heart. It always
Speaker 1: comes as a surprise to audiences to find Melanie Griffith
Speaker 1: can actually act too, Like that's a mainstream movie critic.
Speaker 1: It's so gross, so gross, it is so gross, But
Speaker 1: it also disappoints me because I felt, to me, it
Speaker 1: feels like the movie gets past that. I feel like
Speaker 1: it does do and that's sort of I felt like,
Speaker 1: that's like, like, you gotta you've got to be looking
Speaker 1: at things that are pretty flat way to to to
Speaker 1: have that be your takeaway about money Griffith in that movie, Um,
Speaker 1: I think, I think. No, I totally agree. It also
Speaker 1: kind of flips the script a little bit, and that
Speaker 1: Harrison Ford's role is typically you would think of as
Speaker 1: like the woman's part in he's sort of the cheerleader
Speaker 1: to her, and he's the one that sexualized throughout the
Speaker 1: movie and every scene it feels like every woman in
Speaker 1: that movie has never seen a man before Harrison Ford
Speaker 1: walks into the room to the point where you know
Speaker 1: it's it's clearly the point because it's so overblown. Uh.
Speaker 1: And there's that one funny scene where he's changing his
Speaker 1: shirt in the office and all the women are watching
Speaker 1: through the blinds in the office and he turns around
Speaker 1: and sort of acknowledges them that that little sort of
Speaker 1: rye almost bow, which was pretty funny. Yeah, incredible, incredible, Uh,
Speaker 1: such good good done done with such good humor. There's
Speaker 1: something about sexuality when when when sexuality is presented in
Speaker 1: a way that's not just trying to give you a boner.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry if this is like, am I not supposed
Speaker 1: to curse? No, you can say fucking boner and whatever
Speaker 1: you like. Very often you feel like you're watching a
Speaker 1: movie and they're trying to make you They're trying to
Speaker 1: get you, like to feel sexed up the try and like,
Speaker 1: that's not the way that sexuality was sort of presented
Speaker 1: in this movie. It's sort of presented in the different
Speaker 1: forms and how people are reacting to it. And that's
Speaker 1: what it feels like to me. It feels more um considered, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so. And it was at a time, um,
Speaker 1: sort of in that eighties turning point where and the
Speaker 1: Guardian article kind of talked about this. When I think
Speaker 1: from the time Milanie Griffith was born, it was like
Speaker 1: eight percent of mother's work and by the time she
Speaker 1: made this movie, it was like fifty something percent. And
Speaker 1: so it was a time when you know, women were
Speaker 1: we're in the workforce more than ever before, and and
Speaker 1: you know, trying to get these jobs and like the
Speaker 1: Sigourney Weaver had, but she's also and I think they
Speaker 1: were right in doing this, played as having to sort
Speaker 1: of play the game as well, even in her position. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that was also sort of like and yes,
Speaker 1: I mean Sigourney Weaver as a successful businesswoman, but she's beautiful, um,
Speaker 1: and she speaks yeah, and she uses her you could tell.
Speaker 1: There's even a couple of scenes where she sort of
Speaker 1: intimates that, like she definitely flirts with the other male executive,
Speaker 1: but then they walk away and she says, what an
Speaker 1: asshole that type stuff like, um, but it is um.
Speaker 1: It presents it all as it presents it all as
Speaker 1: a as a as a system that women now have
Speaker 1: to figure out how to navigate, as opposed to like
Speaker 1: maybe presented as a system that is not the way
Speaker 1: it should be. So it presents it as like, well,
Speaker 1: women are trying to do this, so how are they
Speaker 1: gonna they gonna figure this one out? And and they
Speaker 1: do and and and a sort of in a way
Speaker 1: that's true to the time. Um, but it doesn't. It's
Speaker 1: not really sort of questioning the system on a larger
Speaker 1: level as sort of archly as we might do it. Now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a really good point. Does that sound right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it sounds totally right. And I think it's like it's
Speaker 1: shocking to see how how little progress was made until
Speaker 1: and then how much has been made since then, because
Speaker 1: it seems I mean, it's like stuff straight out of
Speaker 1: the like nineteen fifties almost with the Alec Baldwin uh character?
Speaker 1: Who this is? I love this era of Alec Baldwin,
Speaker 1: Like young Alc Balm was so great. But when he
Speaker 1: basically says at the end straight up like you know,
Speaker 1: why is it always about what you want? He's like,
Speaker 1: who who? Who died? Made you Princess Grace or whatever?
Speaker 1: Grace Kelly, And it's like, dude, are you kidding me?
Speaker 1: It's like she walked in on you, like banging her friend,
Speaker 1: and he's like, why is it always about what you
Speaker 1: want and it's like this, really, but that's what she was.
Speaker 1: But it's also truthful, like we don't we don't don't
Speaker 1: hear that as he's right. We hear that as like
Speaker 1: this is what she's this is what she's dealing with,
Speaker 1: and he's not wrong, but she's more right right, Like
Speaker 1: he's not wrong for the time, he's a broken man
Speaker 1: in many ways. But but but the fact that that's
Speaker 1: that's what somebody like her would have to be dealing with,
Speaker 1: um is Uh. The hoops that she has to jump
Speaker 1: through is incredible. Yeah, and also just you know, it
Speaker 1: wasn't like this was everybody. I mean, this was a
Speaker 1: working class guy from Staten Island, where that sort of
Speaker 1: attitude was probably way more prevalent than the Manhattan Night's
Speaker 1: um or maybe it was just disguise more as casual sexism.
Speaker 1: But like Harrison Ford is a pretty good guy. He
Speaker 1: doesn't take advantage of her. Um. I think that role
Speaker 1: needed to be, Like it was crucial for this movie
Speaker 1: to have one one good dude in it. Yeah, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. I'm a big fan of movies where characters,
Speaker 1: where there are characters who are not to be underestimated.
Speaker 1: Um it's kind of a trophy character, but I always
Speaker 1: fall for it. It's just their their stories I love,
Speaker 1: and this is definitely one of them. And I think
Speaker 1: this movie if it were made today, it would be
Speaker 1: so much sillier than it is because it is sort
Speaker 1: of one of those, you know, sort of Three's Company
Speaker 1: esque things with mistaken identities, and especially at the end
Speaker 1: when Harrison Ford comes in the apartment, she's hiding in
Speaker 1: the other room and people are overhearing the wrong conversations,
Speaker 1: and but it never it always rises above that stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know why that is. I actually put a
Speaker 1: lot of that on Melanie Griffith, And there's something about her,
Speaker 1: there's something about um she then they're right about her voice,
Speaker 1: like she sort of puts on the silly so I
Speaker 1: don't even know what to put on. Like, sure, her
Speaker 1: voice is a voice that one might not take seriously,
Speaker 1: but there's something about there is something. Uh, there's a
Speaker 1: non seriousness to her voice, but there's not a silliness
Speaker 1: to her voice, like she's not her she's not wacky
Speaker 1: like she's her. She she sort of owns the space
Speaker 1: that that that she occupies in a way that you
Speaker 1: do take her seriously. Yeah, this this movie would be
Speaker 1: way over the top with silliness and wackiness, I think
Speaker 1: if it were made today. Yeah, yeah for sure. Well
Speaker 1: just yeah, it's Sigourney Weaver. My god, just all those people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she that character. I think they they played it perfect
Speaker 1: because she was so hard to sort of read like
Speaker 1: she was being her mentor. But you don't know for
Speaker 1: a little while if she is an ally or not.
Speaker 1: And uh, she's not played as a straight up villain.
Speaker 1: That kind of comes later, So she's sort of the
Speaker 1: mentor a bit a little bit condescending. And then of
Speaker 1: course you learned throughout the movie that she has taken
Speaker 1: her idea and but it's still not in a Disney
Speaker 1: villain way. It also feels very real still, I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, Um for sure. It's as far as storytelling goes,
Speaker 1: if you're if you're someone who has ever written screenplays
Speaker 1: or tried to, this is a movie that I think
Speaker 1: could very easily be taught in classes as far as
Speaker 1: just kind of perfect structure, perfect it runs like a
Speaker 1: Swiss watch, uh, and but just very subtly um hitting
Speaker 1: those plat points like exactly where they should be And
Speaker 1: I know Nichols didn't write the script I was. I
Speaker 1: looked at it was. I can't find his name now,
Speaker 1: but um, just a really great lesson in structure, I
Speaker 1: think for story. Yeah, I mean it, Yeah, it moves.
Speaker 1: And also just like the it it feels like, um,
Speaker 1: it feels complete, even in the way. And I'm sure
Speaker 1: this is I don't know that this was in the
Speaker 1: writing that maybe I'm sure this was in the directing. Actually,
Speaker 1: like it starts the way it ends like it starts.
Speaker 1: It starts with that helicopter shot going across the New
Speaker 1: York Harbor and into the you know, into the streets,
Speaker 1: into the oh no, it goes onto the stat Island
Speaker 1: Ferry right as they're going into as they're going into
Speaker 1: the city to sort of pursue capitalism, and it ends, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, as they're pursuing capitalism in a building, you know,
Speaker 1: in this helicopter shot that's pulling out to see how
Speaker 1: many people are doing what Melanie Griffiths is trying to
Speaker 1: do and how sort of feudal it is, and that
Speaker 1: you are just like a cogging machine. Ultimately, like so
Speaker 1: it does have that like it is complete. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: it is complete. Yeah, it is complete. Um, Harrison Ford
Speaker 1: should have done more comedies. I realized that when I
Speaker 1: was watching this today. He's very funny when he wants
Speaker 1: to be sure. And this isn't a comedy that I mean,
Speaker 1: this is sort of a dramaty in some ways. It's
Speaker 1: not it's not one that's plays for gags or for
Speaker 1: sort of easy jokes. But there's a lot of humor
Speaker 1: in it, and a lot of it comes from him
Speaker 1: and just how subtle he is in this movie and
Speaker 1: his face acting is just I just love that guy
Speaker 1: so much. He's so lovable and yeah, well there's there's
Speaker 1: also something about um. And I don't know how fair
Speaker 1: this is, but but I do think it's true. There's
Speaker 1: something about um, beautiful people being funny. It's almost like fine,
Speaker 1: It's almost like when when when when when when you
Speaker 1: see somebody really beautiful and then they start talking, You're like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're a genius as well. It's almost like it's almost
Speaker 1: like it's fun to watch these three characters because they're
Speaker 1: all so beautiful. Um, and they don't and all the
Speaker 1: characters sort of have a certain nobody's sort of the
Speaker 1: necessarily the huge star and so they're they're also beautiful,
Speaker 1: they're all good actress, but then you realize they're all
Speaker 1: funny in their own way. Um, and it's sort of like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. That kind of thing makes me happy
Speaker 1: for the people in it. Like you, you like the people,
Speaker 1: you like the bad guys, you like the good guys
Speaker 1: like you, just like that everybody is given enough to
Speaker 1: play with, as opposed to like a lot of movies
Speaker 1: where it's like you hire one star, you give them
Speaker 1: all the good lines, and everybody else found something off them.
Speaker 1: This just feels like, look at look at all these
Speaker 1: these guys. Everybody having such fun playing with these characters. Um,
Speaker 1: That's how it feels to me. Yeah, I agree, And
Speaker 1: there's just so much subtlety. Um again, it would just
Speaker 1: be so different if this film were made today or
Speaker 1: maybe even back then in a different director's hands. Um. Yeah.
Speaker 1: One of the moments, one of the great little small moments,
Speaker 1: is when he's in the bar with her, when he
Speaker 1: first meets her and she doesn't know who he is.
Speaker 1: He orders the tequila and he goes power, power to
Speaker 1: the people, and she almost under her breast says the
Speaker 1: little people and he doesn't even notice she said it.
Speaker 1: It's like it's aligned for the audience and uh, just
Speaker 1: little things like that I think separate this movie from
Speaker 1: sort of what was going on at the time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do you feel like it's a capitalist movie or an
Speaker 1: anti capitalist movie? I was. I actually feel like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, what do you think? Well, I don't know,
Speaker 1: because it's uh. I mean, in the end, she got
Speaker 1: that job in mergers and acquisitions, Like that's the happy
Speaker 1: that's her Cinderella ending is she got that job, not
Speaker 1: that she realized that that life wasn't for her. I
Speaker 1: think that would have been anti capitalism. But then it's
Speaker 1: the but then that, to me, the pull out shot
Speaker 1: at the end is what makes it all. Is what
Speaker 1: makes it is, what turns it for him? Oh she
Speaker 1: got her office, but you do guys realize she's one
Speaker 1: of a million? Yeah, just true matter. Um, that's what
Speaker 1: I That's what I get from that. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: never really thought about that. It's I also think in
Speaker 1: a way gives Um. What I do like about it
Speaker 1: is that it very much could have made a lot
Speaker 1: of It's like Staten Islands, poor Manhattan's rich like the
Speaker 1: like it's sort of two worlds and you don't finish
Speaker 1: the movie thinking I want to be one part of
Speaker 1: one and not the other. Um, they both seem attractive
Speaker 1: to me at the end. Um the Staten Island life
Speaker 1: seems attractive. The wedding, whether they're all having fun or
Speaker 1: like the the engagement party, they're at the bar, mixed
Speaker 1: of this. Behind the bar, she gives him a bree
Speaker 1: case and everybody's having finds her drunk, and and you
Speaker 1: don't get the sense that they're the ones who got
Speaker 1: it wrong and the Manhattan got it right. And then
Speaker 1: yeah and so and then the flip side. Like you
Speaker 1: you see the scenes in the in Manhattan, like the
Speaker 1: big fancy wedding and like that all just seems kind
Speaker 1: of stupid, but you don't and it seems critical of it,
Speaker 1: but not in a way. They're just people in a
Speaker 1: big system too. So I like movies like that that,
Speaker 1: like it really sort of it doesn't decide for you. Um,
Speaker 1: it kind of makes both seem attractive and unattractive at
Speaker 1: the same time. I think that's a neat trick. It
Speaker 1: is a neat trick, and there is some ambiguity there,
Speaker 1: And aside from the main characters, I think the more
Speaker 1: likable group is Joan Cusack and Alec Baldwin and then
Speaker 1: the saton Islanders. Yeah, and the second Yeah, then they're
Speaker 1: they're they're you know, they're about friendship. And they like
Speaker 1: when Chess gets fired, like they did a little collection
Speaker 1: and they handed an avelo fullimony so she can get
Speaker 1: drunk one like they've got their eye they've got their
Speaker 1: eye on what on what is important? Um, but I
Speaker 1: and then I will say, even if and I'm not
Speaker 1: sure how this serves my argument or or sort of
Speaker 1: uh interrupts it, but like even like the big CEO
Speaker 1: type people like Mr Trask that everybody's trying to they
Speaker 1: don't make them seem evil either. They make them see
Speaker 1: it's almost like it's almost like um paternal I guess
Speaker 1: in a in a way, but it's it's not I
Speaker 1: guess it's I guess maybe that that means it's not
Speaker 1: really going after any of them. It's about people navigating
Speaker 1: themselves in that system. It's it's less about a critique
Speaker 1: of the system itself, if that makes any sense. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it does subvert a lot of cliches. Uh.
Speaker 1: And for nineteen I don't feel like I feel like,
Speaker 1: I mean, their movies are all about tropes and cliches still,
Speaker 1: but I feel like back then this was a much smarter,
Speaker 1: more considered take on this stuff than what was normally
Speaker 1: going on, which is probably why it stood out and
Speaker 1: was such a you know, I mean it was nominated
Speaker 1: for a bunch of Oscar Awards, and it wasn't you know,
Speaker 1: it could have very easily been sort of a smaltsey,
Speaker 1: little you know, rom com uh. And he subverts that
Speaker 1: so many times, Like there their first kiss. You know,
Speaker 1: there's no music swelling. It's not it was some great background.
Speaker 1: It's just after that meeting. He he's going down the
Speaker 1: stairs and he has he urged to kiss her. It
Speaker 1: just felt so real. And the same goes for when
Speaker 1: he tells her he loves her. It's not some big
Speaker 1: Hollywood moment with this backdrop of the Manhattan skyline. It's
Speaker 1: just sort of there, and it's I feel like it's
Speaker 1: just much more real. Yeah yeah um. And also just
Speaker 1: like pairing those up, pairing all those moments up with
Speaker 1: these big sort of corporate moments, like of tension, like
Speaker 1: he says, I love you're like right before the big meeting,
Speaker 1: right and like it's it's it is an interesting pairing. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: I did not see the twist coming, believe it or not.
Speaker 1: It's it's pretty telegraphed, but I did not realize for
Speaker 1: seeing it for the first time today at fifty years old,
Speaker 1: I did not see that Harrison Ford would have been
Speaker 1: dating Catherine this whole time. You know, maybe I'm a dummy.
Speaker 1: I didn't. It's so it's it's I've seen it so
Speaker 1: many times that I don't know that I remember what
Speaker 1: my initial reactions were. But you actually didn't see it coming,
Speaker 1: so you were shocked. I was. I saw the fact
Speaker 1: that he had someone else in his life coming, but
Speaker 1: I was. I was definitely surprised that it was Sigourney
Speaker 1: Weaver because I guess I thought he had been in
Speaker 1: her office, so he would have known, but you know,
Speaker 1: maybe it was a different office or something. They never
Speaker 1: really explained that she had just started a Penny marsh Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, So I just want to make sure that
Speaker 1: you don't make people think that there's holes in this plot,
Speaker 1: because no, yeah, I mean, I didn't see it coming,
Speaker 1: and I thought it was a good twist and little
Speaker 1: that Little Three's Company scene in there where they're in
Speaker 1: different rooms. You know. I like that scene because it's
Speaker 1: she gets a little bit of validation she needs when
Speaker 1: she overhears him clearly not really into her. And I
Speaker 1: think a lot of movies would have kept her in
Speaker 1: that uh feeling of being unsure about herself. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I like that she had that little moment. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: I love this stuff. Gorilla amazing because that wasn't played up.
Speaker 1: It was just a funny, little weird choice. Again, if
Speaker 1: that were made today, that would have been so slapstick
Speaker 1: and weird totally, all these weird choices, like in the
Speaker 1: cocktail party where she's serving Chinese dumplings in a in
Speaker 1: a steam car and the steams like blowing in her face.
Speaker 1: It's just like there's no reason for it, but it's
Speaker 1: just a great like indignity. Yeah, m that then that
Speaker 1: was her idea, the Chinese dumplings, like and and and
Speaker 1: and her idea, Like she didn't really think it through,
Speaker 1: but yeah, and so they're they're great sort of physical
Speaker 1: bits or like the cast is an amazing there's no
Speaker 1: reason for her to having like that big old cast
Speaker 1: on Sigourney Weaver and he comes in any knocks on
Speaker 1: it like she's a twelve year old like this, uh,
Speaker 1: and then it makes her so hilarious that she's trying
Speaker 1: to walk with dignity with this cast. Like man, it's
Speaker 1: just like it's one of those things that you you
Speaker 1: you feel sometimes you can sometimes you can watch it
Speaker 1: and just and just be excited for the screenwriter that
Speaker 1: they that they like figured out this plot device and
Speaker 1: you could see how it played like maybe she couesn't
Speaker 1: twist king accident, no, but then she's got the cast on, No,
Speaker 1: that will be really funny in this scene. It's just
Speaker 1: like it's just one of those things that that that
Speaker 1: keeps keeps on giving. It's not it's not just like
Speaker 1: a one time bit. Yeah, that the the giant uh
Speaker 1: tiki drinks at the wedding that Harrison Ford sucks down.
Speaker 1: It's like there's there's just enough of those sort of
Speaker 1: standard comedy moments without without it veering too much into
Speaker 1: that territory, I think. And again he plays it so
Speaker 1: funny in that bathroom scene when the bride walks in
Speaker 1: and he comes out, it's just this sort of classic
Speaker 1: Hollywood comedy stuff, you know, like there's a there's a
Speaker 1: guy in the ladies bathroom, but it doesn't ever feel
Speaker 1: silly to me. Yeah, what is that? I think it's
Speaker 1: probably Mike Nichols. Yeah, and you know the acting, everyone
Speaker 1: pulled it together, but I don't think he would. He
Speaker 1: allowed it to to veer into that territory such a
Speaker 1: deft hand. Uh. And then you know, then that ending
Speaker 1: with them in the apartment and he's bought it this
Speaker 1: lunch box, and it's like you're dead inside if you're
Speaker 1: not just like dying at that moment when he packs
Speaker 1: her little lunch. Just just it's so perfect and he's
Speaker 1: such a good dude, and like you don't have a
Speaker 1: heart if that doesn't, you know, at least make you
Speaker 1: like well up a little bit. Yeah, it was wonderful. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the combination of the two worlds, it's like it's like
Speaker 1: the sort of Manhattan world combined with the sort of
Speaker 1: like human connection to the Staten Island world like that.
Speaker 1: I think that's like that's what it's presenting as the Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is what matters, because she would be certainly packing
Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin's lunch. Yeah, her life had gone that way,
Speaker 1: and he's rooting. Yeah, he that he's he's rooting for her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that which is, which is he's he's supporting her in
Speaker 1: this incredibly which Now all you want to do is
Speaker 1: say in this incredibly fucked up system where she's got
Speaker 1: to like go be a asked like like, but but
Speaker 1: if somehow I don't get hung up on that. Still,
Speaker 1: I don't get hung up on that. Sometimes when you
Speaker 1: see movies thirty years later, you're like, oh, that was
Speaker 1: a blind spot, uh, and for there's something about it
Speaker 1: that seems good, good natured enough that you don't you
Speaker 1: don't sort of judge it for the things that misses
Speaker 1: because times have changed, if that makes any sense, Like
Speaker 1: zero black people in the movie, Like, it's just not
Speaker 1: like that. It doesn't. It doesn't address any of those
Speaker 1: any of those sorts of issues. Um. But and perhaps
Speaker 1: a personal color is watching this movie might might say
Speaker 1: it differently, But I don't know. I think it it
Speaker 1: deals enough with class that that it and that it
Speaker 1: makes you root for for people of different classes enough
Speaker 1: that I don't know, there's something out it that's still
Speaker 1: that holds up even despite it's it's sort of it's
Speaker 1: blind spots. Yeah, I guess if you know the true,
Speaker 1: like anti capitalist message would be if she realized that
Speaker 1: world wasn't for her and she started up her own
Speaker 1: small boutique firm that did things differently and uh, she
Speaker 1: wasn't part of the machine or something like that. But
Speaker 1: you know this felt true to be sure, but also
Speaker 1: just like incredibly like when she realizes at the end
Speaker 1: that she's got her own office and like this is
Speaker 1: her secretary and then she says, here's what maybe maybe
Speaker 1: that was a good time to talk about what you expected? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and she just says like, well, first of all, you
Speaker 1: call me tests. You don't have to get me coffee
Speaker 1: unless you're getting something for yourself, and the rest will
Speaker 1: just figure out if we go along like it should.
Speaker 1: Like this is how this is how gender, which is
Speaker 1: a very actually modern message, right, Like this is how
Speaker 1: this is how women in the workplace or women in
Speaker 1: in in the upper positions would actually change how it
Speaker 1: is for everybody. It's not just sort of like a
Speaker 1: filling up filling a slot with a woman. It's like
Speaker 1: you will change the way that we were. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I think it was a message of hope for night
Speaker 1: for women. I think this is a movie that in
Speaker 1: women probably really really loved um. Like you were talking
Speaker 1: about who's who is the audience. I don't necessarily think
Speaker 1: it was just for women, but I think it is
Speaker 1: a is a movie that women probably could rally around
Speaker 1: a little bit um, like they could rally around Thelma
Speaker 1: and Louise or something like that. And you've got the
Speaker 1: Carly Simon song, you know, which is it's such a
Speaker 1: great song. It was such a big hit. Big drums, yeah,
Speaker 1: those big drums at big eighties production. And it also
Speaker 1: did this thing that I feel like movies really used
Speaker 1: to do a lot, which I love, which is you
Speaker 1: have a a theme song that is also sort of
Speaker 1: the score of the entire movie too. I loved it
Speaker 1: when movies did that, and they just don't. I don't
Speaker 1: feel like they do that any Like the die Hard thing.
Speaker 1: Isn't that that didn't die Hard to that? No, I
Speaker 1: don't think die Hard was all beaton was ninth right? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: But I mean like a theme song that a pop
Speaker 1: star sings and then then it's rearranged as the or
Speaker 1: throughout the movie too, like let the River Run is
Speaker 1: in this entire movie kind of from front to back
Speaker 1: and then she you know it opens the movie. It
Speaker 1: closes the movie, and then it's the score. It's like
Speaker 1: the underscore. Right, you're actually right. It's great that she's
Speaker 1: all right. Sometimes Carle time it's just start of humming
Speaker 1: in the back. Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right, You're right.
Speaker 1: I really loved it, though. I appreciate um sometimes like
Speaker 1: I appreciate a pick from a guest for some weird reason,
Speaker 1: if that makes sense, Like I love that this is
Speaker 1: your movie pick Working Girl from it was a big
Speaker 1: movie that people love, but I don't know, it just
Speaker 1: it seemed like an unlikely choice, and I'm I'm but
Speaker 1: what is that? What else is everyone's everybody else pick?
Speaker 1: I mean it kind of it kind of varies from
Speaker 1: like stuff that people like their favorite movies when they
Speaker 1: were kids, the first big movies, to stuff that's a
Speaker 1: little more heavy that they, you know, as adults I
Speaker 1: think really got into. But I don't know. I feel
Speaker 1: like this is a pick from the heart and I
Speaker 1: appreciate that. Oh it really is. I really love it
Speaker 1: and I love talking about it. Man. Thanks for having me,
Speaker 1: of course, Thanks for being here. Working people find you.
Speaker 1: You're on Twitter and stuff for yea Dee to Bersky
Speaker 1: on Twitter and uh you know iTunes, uh podcasts, Apple podcasts,
Speaker 1: all those places Spotify, I just search my name. Yeah,
Speaker 1: go go listen to all the shows. I'm gonna check
Speaker 1: out the Cops show starting this week. Uh and I'll
Speaker 1: probably email you that will be my new obsession for
Speaker 1: the next week. Good. If you ever want to talk
Speaker 1: about copsling that our Richard Simmons that will talk about both,
Speaker 1: I probably will. All right, all right, thanks Dan. Movie
Speaker 1: Crash is produced and written by Charles Bryant and Meel Brown,
Speaker 1: edited and engineered by Seth Nicholas Johnson, and scored by
Speaker 1: Noel Brown here in our home studio at Pontsty Market, Atlanta, Georgia.
Speaker 1: For I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.