1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show, Ridiculous Historians. This is a 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: classic episode because we took some time off for Labor Day. 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: We did do that thing. Uh, that time off has passed. 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: But it was awesome for me. I hope it was 5 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: awesome for YouTube Ben who boys, awesome for everybody listening 6 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: along at home. Today's episode is it's an oldie, it's 7 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: a goodie, it's a weird one. It's about butter. Yeah, 8 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: and a lot of you likely have not heard it 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: because I believe the old Apple podcast platform cuts off 10 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: older episodes. I think older than like three hundred of 11 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: the most recent, so we have surpassed that sometime ago. 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: So yeah, we're having our own indulgence today by taking 13 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: a little holiday and giving you this classic episode. Ridiculous 14 00:00:51,440 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome to 15 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: the show, Ladies and gentlemen. They call me Ben. I 16 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: can't believe it's not Bowland, and my name is Noel 17 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: the butter lover Brown. Now that's good. I don't don't 18 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 1: ever call me that. I will not call you that. 19 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: If we're outside of the balance of this episode. Is 20 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: that fair? I guess so. Also, as it turns out, 21 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: our wonderful producer Alex pointed out right before we started rolling, 22 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: the butter lover was considered an insult in medieval Roman Catholicism. Yeah, 23 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: Roman times to call someone butter lover? Was it was 24 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: fighting words, wasn't it. Because we got the nod from Alex. There, 25 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: this is ridiculous history, and today we are looking at 26 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: a very ridiculous but I would argue, very important part 27 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 1: of butter history. Yeah, and also part of the history 28 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: of religion as we know it. And it's ridiculous, I 29 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: guess because a big part of the Protestant Reformation, as 30 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: uh it turns out, was hinged on the prohibition of 31 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: that delicious, creamy substance we know and love, many of 32 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: us I do. How do you feel about butter? Butter? Yes, 33 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: I love it. I've had um. I've had many loves, 34 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: hard one and often lost in my life. Noel, and 35 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: butter is Butter is the one that's going to stick around. 36 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: I think you're messing with me. I am not messive 37 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: with you. I am not messing with you. The It's true. 38 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: Everything that the illustrious Mr Brown said is true. And 39 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: this is somewhat timely for us because this year, the 40 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: year in which we're recording this ten marks the five 41 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 1: anniversary of the Protestant Reformation. And I mean, that's such 42 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: a staple of of high school history classes. But just 43 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: in case, well, what was the Protestant Reformation? Ben, I'm so, 44 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you asked. So. It was a schism 45 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: from the Roman Catholic Church, and it was originally instituted 46 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: by a fellow named Martin Luther. To the guy that 47 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: nailed the thing to the door. Yep, he's the guy 48 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: who famously nailed feces onto the door in fifteen seventeen. 49 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: So what you're saying is he had theses and Butter 50 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: was one, yes, Yes, we are Uh. And I believe 51 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: I believe that jay Z just I'm just gonna guess 52 00:03:55,000 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: that jay Z probably based his song off theces. I 53 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: was thinking that might be the case. It has a feel, 54 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: has that feel to it. Uh. The problem that Martin 55 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: Luther had to keep it in a in a short format, right. 56 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: The problem that Martin Luther had was that the way 57 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: that Catholic Church was functioning seen in his opinion in 58 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: many ways as corrupt and as oppressive, and he had 59 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 1: his own theology that conflicted with this right, I mean 60 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: corrupt in the most like Mafioss sense of the word corrupt. Essentially, 61 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: the Church charged people um what they called indulgences in 62 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: order to go against Catholic doctrine or things that were 63 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: prohibited food items for example, or activities that were prohibited. 64 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: You could essentially pay for absolution. And this was clearly 65 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: a huge beef with Martin Luther. Because I have these 66 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: is pulled up in Internet form and I typed in 67 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: a search for the word indulge. I didn't even make 68 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: it all the way to indulgence, and it appears forty 69 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: five times um in the document. And there were there 70 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: were serious, fundamentally contradictory theological opinions that Martin Luther had 71 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: or maybe beliefs is a better word here. Uh, the 72 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: indulgence is yes, clearly a corrupt practice. Right. He also 73 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 1: challenged the authority of the pope, and he believed that 74 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: the Bible didn't have to stay in the Latin language. 75 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: He when he translated the Bible to German, he honestly 76 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: set that culture on a path toward a standard written 77 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: version of the German language. Well, totally mean like a 78 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: big part of it too. Beyond this weird practice of 79 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: selling an algiences was making it more accessible to people 80 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: and not having to have everything go through some sort 81 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: of high church official or you know, like the idea 82 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: that you could speak directly to God rather than have 83 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: to have a go between some kind of like medium 84 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: almost in a way, in the form of a priest. 85 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: You know. And and Butter is not just a tiny huh, 86 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: well look at that kind of detail in this story. 87 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: In fact, if not for this band on Butter, there 88 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: might have been a much slower growth rate of the 89 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: Protestant movement. So if we look at this first, I 90 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: guess the best way for us to start is to 91 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 1: consider fast days. Should we travel back in time to 92 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: medieval Europe? I think that's a wonderful idea. So here 93 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: we are medieval Europe. Dude, it's kind of here. It's 94 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: really dark and gloomy, and everyone looks really bummed out. Yes, yes, yes, 95 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: you'll you'll also notice that there are a lot of 96 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: people who look hungry. Watch out for that poop. Oh 97 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: you slipped, That's fine, it's my poop. I was here earlier, gross, 98 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: I know, I know, I was just really feeling the 99 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: moment that skinny guy in the stocks over there, he 100 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: looks pretty malnourished. That's also plague, So I don't touch him. 101 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: I think I've driven this bit into the ground. Well, 102 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: luckily we're riding it out still, because now that we're 103 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: in this environment, we can note that there are some 104 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: obvious traditions that are different from our own in the 105 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: modern day. Right, Let's see look at that. See that 106 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: monk man sure does have a shiny head. Yes, yes, 107 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: he has a ton shore. Ah my eyes, So what 108 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: a ton shore? That's a tantra is the word for 109 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: that type of haircut where they shave the top of 110 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: their head. I thought it was it called a bowl cut. 111 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: It's it's like the opposite of a bowl cut. It's 112 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: like the fringe around a bowl cut, minus the part. Okay, 113 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: you learned something new every day. These monks that we're 114 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: hypothetically looking at are living in a system of fairly 115 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: rigid and exacting rules dictating both their um, their religious practices, 116 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: and their day to day behavior. And one of the 117 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: big things about this we're drawing a lot of this 118 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: from a book called Butter, A Rich History by Elaine 119 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: Coast Sulva uh one of the big things about this 120 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: was the the sort of food you could eat. And 121 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: if it were Wednesday, if it were a Friday or 122 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: a Saturday, then these monks the way this tradition started 123 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: could not eat any animal products. They were vegan three 124 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,599 Speaker 1: days out of the week. They were really ahead of 125 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: the curve on that one, no kidding. And then in 126 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: lent the Ford day period leading up to Easter, they 127 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 1: also couldn't eat animal products, so they were vegan functionally 128 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: for like forty days or their version of that. Yeah, 129 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: and what's wild and didn't ocur to me until looking 130 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 1: into this stuff is it was accounted for something in 131 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: the neighborhood of like half of the calendar year when 132 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: you added it all up together. And that's if you 133 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: don't well we'll get to indulgences and how they play 134 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: in here. But yeah, you're absolutely right. That really adds 135 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: up and that makes me appreciate every fully. Cheese steak 136 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: I have ever eaten or will ever eat Do you 137 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: do that? The cheese whiz version? You know, you know, 138 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: I'm not loyal enough. That's the classic they say. Yeah, 139 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: but I like the provolone, you know, like a good provolonge. 140 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: You ever eating cheese whiz out of the can. Yeah. Man, Yeah, 141 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: we've all had dark times in our lives. I mean, 142 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: I'll do whip cream out of the can, but cheese whiz, 143 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: It's like, it's not it's not a food. It's not 144 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: a food. It's essentially like the powder that comes in 145 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: the Kraft Macaroni and cheese boxes, just like an aerosol form. 146 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: Don't they have to call the cheese food product? I 147 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: think so American cheese slices. But the thing that's cool 148 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: too about this is, um, a lot of this stuff 149 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: really hinged on region. We take for granted the idea 150 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: of importing and exporting and are the availability of like anything, 151 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 1: and like we don't really have to limit our food 152 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: intake based on where we live. If we want strawberries, 153 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: we can get strawberries. If we want some you know, 154 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: tropical fruit that's not grown anywhere near us, we can 155 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: get it because of like you know, refrigeration. But back 156 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 1: in these days that was not a thing, and your 157 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: diet was dictated pretty much exclusively on what was available 158 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: in your region unless you were super wealthy, and even 159 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: and even then it would be incredibly rare, you know, 160 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 1: or be incredibly expensive, for instance, to get certain spices 161 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 1: like peppercorns. So now we've got we've got our monks 162 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: who about half the year just can't eat meat or 163 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: dairy and is also coincidentally believed to you will lust 164 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: any animal product is thought as like essentially an afrodisiactive sorts. 165 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: This tradition became becomes intensely problematic when the Catholic Church 166 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: extends these Fast Day rules to all Christians. So for 167 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: not just monks, anybody who is a Christian has to 168 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: skip meat, milk, eggs, animal fats, or butter on Wednesday's, Friday's, Saturdays, 169 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: and all during Lent. And this is where we really 170 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: see the problem of geography that we mentioned coming into play, 171 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: because the Roman Catholic Church isn't is it in southern Europe? Right, 172 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: It's based in Rome. It's in charge ideologically of a 173 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: lot of Europe, but it's based in Rome, and they 174 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: had access to like fish, a lot more fish, you know, 175 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: fresh fish, and also things like olive oil that were 176 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: alternatives to butter, because butter, you know, as as we know, 177 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: is delicious to just spread directly on things, but it's 178 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: also a really great way to cook things, and it 179 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: infuses pretty excellent flavor into things that you cook with it. 180 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 1: Olive oil is also fantastic, I would argue, it doesn't 181 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 1: quite add the same you know, some kind of same 182 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: kind of mommy, same kind of kick as butter does. 183 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: So that played into this as well. Southern Europeans were 184 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: not only not only was olive oil sort of functioning 185 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: the way that butter functioned in different areas of Europe, 186 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: but olive oil was considered superior and Southern some Southern 187 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: Europeans actually a prejudices against butter, really really strange stuff. 188 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: There was this belief that, you know, butter was a 189 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: disease vector, that the reason people got leprosy was because 190 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: of their buttered consumption. And so when Southern Europeans were 191 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: traveling abroad, some would even bring their own supply of oil, 192 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: you know, like I don't want to come back to 193 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: Rome with leprosy, So pack of the pack of mule 194 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: full of olive oil, or put bags on the mule. 195 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: Don't put the oil in the mule, I mean unless 196 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: it's you know, starting to rust. Yes, sure, I mechanical mules. 197 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm talking about. All of this, 198 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: but don't leave it in. It's fine. We're just having 199 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 1: a conversation here. So Southern Europeans all about olive oil, 200 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: olive oil, maybe fish oil. These are the superior flavor ingredients, right, 201 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: These are the superior um products in comparison to butter. 202 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: But in parts of Europe where there were dairy farming 203 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 1: countries like France or where Martin Luther lived Germany, cutting 204 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: butter from the diet was a huge deal and it 205 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: was dangerous. That was tantamount to some form of forced 206 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: starvation essentially m because think about it, if they can't 207 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: consume any meat or then also cheese, right, cheese would 208 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: be out. Then they couldn't rely on butter. Things were 209 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: getting really really skimpy in the pantry and the larder. 210 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: And this rule was applied in a very corrupt way. 211 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: This is where indulgences come in. And did you ever 212 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: read about these when you were a kid in school? Man, 213 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: this sounds like the most crooked, disturbing practice. Well, it's 214 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: like the it's it's it's you know, a religious equivalent 215 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: of like Polly Walnuts from the Sopranos knocking on your 216 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: door and you know, expecting his collections for protection, you know, 217 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: but this is like spiritual protection space. PA. Say, you know, 218 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: you you grease my palm a little bit, and I'll 219 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: give you a pass. In other words, I won't break 220 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: your legs or you know, put you in the stocks 221 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: when we find out that you've broken fast by eating 222 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: you know, something that was prohibited like butter. Yeah, it's 223 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: it's crazy. So if you are well connected Catholic royalty, 224 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: or if you're a wealthy merchant, for instance, and you're 225 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: saying the common people maybe all well and good three 226 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: days out of the week without button, but I am 227 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: of different stock. Have they talked? Every single one? They 228 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: all sounded like Winston Churchill, including the children. That's terrifying. 229 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: I forgot. We're there actually right now. Still we we 230 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: haven't come back from our time traveling. Yeahs, figure out 231 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: what day of the week it is, so we don't 232 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: get in trouble. Because you know, this is a spiritual institution. 233 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: We are talking about a religious rule, and this means 234 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: that in addition to physical penalties that might exist, you know, 235 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: if their physical penalties for breaking a religious rule, the 236 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: ultimate threat is that you couldn't you are spiritually committing 237 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: a transgression against the will of God. And the thing 238 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: too is in these regions where they didn't have ready 239 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: access to the alternatives to butter, there were merchants that 240 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: would capitalize on that and would provide or import I guess, 241 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: really really really poor quality oils. And there's actually a 242 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: quote from a book by the name of Fast and 243 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: Feast from a um priest from fifteen twenty that goes 244 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: as as such, in Rome, they make a mockery of 245 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: fasting while forcing us to eat an oil they themselves 246 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: would not use to grease their shoes. Then they sell 247 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: us the right to eat the foods forbidden on fast days, 248 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: but they have stolen that same liberty from us with 249 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 1: their ecclesiastical laws. Eating butter, they say, is a greater 250 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: sin than to lie, blaspheme, or indulge in impurity, which 251 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: is just insane when you think about it, you know 252 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 1: that that list of priorities could be so messed up. 253 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: And it's it's not just a matter of controlling a population, right, 254 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 1: it's a matter of economic import for the for the 255 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: Catholic Church, because they're taking this money that people are 256 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:44,479 Speaker 1: paying for dispensations, right. Uh. And they had different rates, 257 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: and they had sometimes they had groups paying like a 258 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: community paying for a dispensation. They're using the cash, these 259 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: folks are paying them too construct bigger buildings, you know, uh, 260 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: and to fund crusades. And there are even there, there 261 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 1: are even things that the local population still recognizes about 262 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 1: this practice. Right. There was a special collection box in 263 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: French parishes to collect what was called butter money. Right, 264 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: so these entire communities where it's told you can eat butter. Dude, 265 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: that sounds like a mafia term when you get that 266 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: butter money, a a little bit of butter money, you know, 267 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: forget about it. That's not my best It's okay. Now 268 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: everybody's looking around at that terrible accident, and we apologize 269 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: to any Italian Americans out there that Ben is deeply offended. No, 270 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: that was not Italian American. It was just it was 271 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, like a like a you know, forget 272 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: about it, Brooklyn, Jersey. That's fair, that's fair. Oh boy, Well, 273 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: who knew that butter can be so controversial? Right? Who knew? 274 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: Who knew? We we knew, we we we read, we 275 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: read up on this, but we knew earlier Dad's tory 276 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: going so in this case, it's not somebody saying, Okay, 277 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: I know that butter is banned on Wednesdays, but we're 278 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: having a big wedding at my castle, and I'd like 279 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: to serve butter to you know, the people attending the wedding. 280 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 1: This case, there are these entire regions who just continue 281 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: to pay an extra tax for the right to conveniently 282 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: ignore a rule. Yeah, or even like like you said, 283 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: royalty or you know, very privileged members of society could 284 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: pay the tax for like their entire household. Yeah, yeah, 285 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,719 Speaker 1: they could. They could do it as a you know, 286 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: like a group rate. I wonder if they got a 287 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: price break, you know, I wonder if if members of 288 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: the church would say, well, for you by yourself, it's 289 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: x amount of stuff, but you get a couple of 290 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: did a couple of units off for every family member 291 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: you add? They probably didn't do price breaks, sort of 292 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: like buying group passes to like Disneyland or something like 293 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: like a cell phone plan. This is almost like a 294 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: cell phone plan because you have to keep paying a 295 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: cable bundle or a cable bundle. Basically, the Roman Catholic 296 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: Church was like the comcast of the medieval Karen in this. 297 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: You know what, that is accurate to a frightening degree 298 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: in in this case, officially and locals even today would 299 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: call certain buildings like butter towers. You know that the 300 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: money was used to build these gigantic religious uh well, 301 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: to add expansions on or to build these gigantic religious structures. 302 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: This struck Martin Luther, along with all the other problems 303 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: you had. This struck him as tremendously insulting, because you know, Noel, 304 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: we're walking around in the past. Our clothes look probably 305 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 1: really cool, I would hope, although our hat game is 306 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: nowhere near as evolved as the Middle Ages hat game. 307 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: But we we don't have any money in this area 308 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: of time. So if we're in this community, if we 309 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 1: like sat down and lived here and we didn't have 310 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,719 Speaker 1: money to pay for that dispensation, then we're getting swindled 311 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: by people selling garbage oil, right that might not even 312 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 1: be edible. There's no way around this butter band for us. 313 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 1: So what what do we what are we supposed to do? 314 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,479 Speaker 1: You know? Yeah, and just just to backtrack just slightly, 315 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: I found an example of one of these kind of 316 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: blanket dispensations in and this is from the the butter 317 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: book of rich history. Queen Anne, who was the Duchess 318 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: of Brittany, um got Rome to give her a dispensation 319 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: for not only herself but the entire household, including all 320 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: her servants and family members. And Brittany did not produce 321 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: any cooking oil at all. It was a it was 322 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 1: a butter based economy, I guess for lack of a 323 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: better time. But um, it's interesting because the this dispensation 324 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 1: was ultimately extended to all of Brittany, and this kind 325 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: of started, um, the the undoing of some of this gradually. Um. 326 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: But it didn't come for free, because they had to 327 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: still give to the church, and there were even special 328 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: prayers that they had to do. Yes, I contrite confession. 329 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 1: It's not it's technically it's not enough to just give 330 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: them the money and say let me let me snarf 331 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 1: my butter in peace. Technically they have to make a 332 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:56,959 Speaker 1: contrite confession where they are legitimately apologizing, confessing to receive 333 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: the absolution from sin. And that's where those butter boxes 334 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: came from. That we were talking about in churches where 335 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 1: you would pay this spiritual tax in some of these 336 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: French parishes, and they actually paid for the construction of 337 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:15,719 Speaker 1: like these ornate cathedrals, and one of them, in um 338 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 1: Ruin and borges Um, was dubbed the Tower, the butter Tower, 339 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: or the tour Debuer. Yeah, so we can see, we 340 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: can see how this becomes a an active segment of 341 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: the regional economies. Right, and this whether or not, I mean, 342 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: obviously we see we look back and we see the 343 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: process of granting indulgences as corrupt. Right, But if it 344 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: is the practice of the Catholic Church, and the Catholic 345 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 1: Church is making the rules, then they're the ones who 346 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: decide if something is corrupt. It would logically follow. However, Luther, 347 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: in an open letter to the Christian nobility of the 348 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 1: German nation, said that this was an enormous problem, that 349 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: these clergymen should not be traveling around Germany telling people 350 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: two pay money and say they're sorry before they can 351 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: eat the butter that they already made. They already may 352 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: be paid for, right, they already churned themselves. The religious 353 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: institution was not involved in the creation of the butter. 354 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: You just had to pay them. And this practice, which 355 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: was seen as selling forgiveness, became very, very widespread, and 356 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: I loved this. I loved this phrase, and we talked 357 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 1: about a little bit off air. Professor of Lutheran History 358 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: and Theology at Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary called it this 359 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: that's Dr Kurcy Sturna an economy of grace. Yeah, that's 360 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 1: pretty pretty great image. And there's a quote from Professor 361 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: Sturno says, today we buy life insurance and health insurance 362 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: to secure our possessions. In the Middle Ages, the only 363 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: security came through church. These indulgences were the people's insurance policies, 364 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 1: tangible pieces of paper that said, hey, I'm good, get 365 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: out of health free exactly. But as we've been saying, 366 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: for Luther, these clergies selling indulgences represented just kind of 367 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: totally exposed what he saw as kind of the rot 368 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: within the Roman Catholic Church that convinced poor peasants that 369 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: they could be forgiven for a price. And in Luther's 370 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 1: particular theology, um forgiveness was free and you could be 371 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 1: saved by faith alone and grace alone, and it did 372 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: not have to fall allow this you know, bizarre pyramids 373 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: scheme of like paying for forgiveness, which you know, I 374 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: mean it totally cheapens it if you're thinking about it 375 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 1: like objectively, right, especially when consider uh different parts uh 376 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: different passages of the Bible which talk about the dangers 377 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 1: of the dangers have counted on wealth. Right. This leads 378 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: us to an interesting parallel. Is it a coincidence that 379 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: most of the dairy rich countries that were producing and 380 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,199 Speaker 1: using butter at the time were the same nations that 381 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: broke away from the Catholic Church in the sixte century? Man, 382 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: Butter's delicious, and you know where they clearly needed it. Yeah, 383 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: there's there's no old quotation that I remember reading that says, 384 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 1: every paraphrase something along the lines of like every nation 385 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: is uh seven days away from revolution if they're not eating. 386 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: Because food is one of these fundamental motivators. And we're 387 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,959 Speaker 1: talking about people who live in a staple food economy. 388 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: These are not people who had, as we mentioned earlier, 389 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: this vast variety of food they could eat for fun, 390 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: you know, well, and and I know I keep joking 391 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: about the deliciousness that is butter, and that's you know, 392 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: surely some part of it. But this was something that 393 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 1: they needed to properly cook their food and you know, 394 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: make it easier to digest and to be nourished by. 395 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: You know, I mean, if they were cooking vegetables. It's 396 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: not a whole lot of fun eating raw vegetables, you know. 397 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: I mean, you want to do a nice little stir 398 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: fry or something, and butter gives you what you need 399 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: to do that if you don't have access to cooking oils. 400 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: This leads to what professors Stirner calls one of Luther's 401 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: biggest eatings. Nothing about eating, drinking, sleeping, marrying, or sex 402 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: is sin. Not believing in God is sin. That's a 403 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: quote from That's a quote from the professor and then 404 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: sums it up this way. And I love how approachable 405 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: this professor's language is. And she's the one who says, like, 406 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: we're good. Yeah, same professor, she says. In other words, 407 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: everything is cool. Eating butter is cool. One of the 408 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: reasons why the Reformation was so successful it was that 409 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,199 Speaker 1: Luther radically changed how people thought about what's wrong and 410 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: what's permissible, and so in a very real way, something 411 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: that seems simple to us today, something simple as when 412 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: you are allowed to eat butter. In part Lad Martin 413 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: Luther to march up on October thirty one and fifteen 414 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: seventeen and publish his nine Theses. Uh. And the door 415 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,719 Speaker 1: that we were referring to the way, the way the 416 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: story slash legend goes is that he nailed it to 417 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: a church door in his hometown of Wittenberg. And these, 418 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: you know, the the whole crux of Theses was to 419 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: call into question fundamentally, you know, the idea of the 420 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: pope being essentially godlike, and you know, specifically this idea 421 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: of God being completely removed from the average man and 422 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: woman and their ability to communicate directly with God through prayer. Yes, absolutely, 423 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: And the printing press also emerges on the scene, which 424 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: means these teachings spread rapidly. In today, as we record this, 425 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: there are more than forty thousand Protestant denominations across the globe. 426 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: Theses was like, you know, the first meme that's not bad, 427 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: it's pretty bad. A lot memes though, I think everything 428 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: I your memetic exactly meme classifications aside. This is pretty 429 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: profound to think that butter of all things and change 430 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: that could change the world. And I wonder if people ever, 431 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: if people ever think about that when they're the next time, 432 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: you know, they're in church, or they go to a 433 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: youth group where they Oh, and I do have to 434 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: point out Martin Luther was not by any measure a 435 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: a perfect man, but in this case he did something amazing. 436 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: And it's fascinating. You know, if you if you were 437 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: listening to this and you identify as Protestant, uh, give it, 438 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: give it a think and check out butter rich history 439 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: to learn more about this strange, fascinating, oftentimes invisible and 440 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: profound ways in which this food stuff affects you. What'st 441 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: thou like the taste of butter? Man, I'm so glad 442 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: we saved that reference for in anybody, anybody, which everybody 443 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: but I was looking into it as well, and I 444 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: didn't think about this until we were researching this. But 445 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: the family that's portrayed in that film are Protestant, but 446 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: they're like even more extreme versions of Protestant that they 447 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: want to just completely extricate everything associated with the Catholic Church. 448 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: And uh, there's a fantastic moment where butter comes up 449 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: as being almost like the most sinful indulgence. So that's 450 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: still stuck around even through Protestantism, although it certainly wasn't 451 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: like being taxed or in that way. Oh, that's a 452 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: brilliant connection. Well done. I didn't think about that. But 453 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: what do you think about that? Is that is that accurate? 454 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think I I think it's intentional. 455 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: I will go on the record saying I think it's 456 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: intentional because I was always these were Puritans in the film. 457 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: I was always wrapped up in the concept of the 458 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: clever word play of You know, we have talked about 459 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: this when we're hanging out earlier, not just the because folks, 460 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: we fan boyd over this film so hard. Uh, it 461 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: was all we talked about for several weeks. And I 462 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: am so surprised that I missed that. And thank you 463 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: for telling me, because I dwelt on the concept of 464 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: not butter, the taste of butter. It's like the pursuit 465 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: of happiness, right. Um. But now I'm I'm going to 466 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: go back and watch The Witch and I might just 467 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 1: do it eating a stick of butter. There's such a 468 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: thing as too much of a good thing. Well, we're 469 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: gonna find out firsthead. I'm I'm mostly kidding. I have 470 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: I have never to my acknowledge eating an entire stick 471 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: of butter. You give her a deep fried butter at carnivals. 472 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: That's a thing I have, but I haven't tried it. 473 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: Did you ever given a show? Dude? No, too much 474 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: of a good thing. It just seems really weird. I 475 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: feel like butter is an ingredient and not its own snack. It. Well, mean, 476 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: it's like it's good on a piece of toast, for sure, 477 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: which essentially is me. Come on, let's be real eating 478 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: a piece of toast with butter on it. It's a 479 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: vehicle for butter. It's true. There's a there's a lot 480 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: of stuff. Like some people drink popcorn is a vehicle 481 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: for butter. Well, you guys out there, tell us how 482 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: you like to eat butter. Do you like to deep 483 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: fry it? Do you like to just eat it with 484 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: a spoon? You know, what's your favorite? What about clarified butter? 485 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: We didn't do so many things. But what am I doing? 486 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: What am I doing? We need to We need to 487 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: plug our friend Lauren and Annie's podcast, food Stuff. They 488 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: have a series of episodes on the history of butter 489 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: um and they also have a video that's pretty cool 490 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: called get Some Culture. Butter t is in parentheses, So 491 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: check out food Stuff. It's another house Stuff Works podcast 492 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: and they're they're friends of ours, so they're cool and 493 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: you should listen to them. And there was what uh 494 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: what a time capsule, a glimpse back not just into 495 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: the history of butter and religion, but into our own show. 496 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: We're gonna be back in just a few days with 497 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 1: a brand new episode, but we hope you enjoyed this one. 498 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: As as we said at the top, this is not 499 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,400 Speaker 1: something you can find on Apple podcasts, but every so 500 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,359 Speaker 1: often we're gonna share some classics like this with you 501 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: in the meantime. Huge thanks to you, Ben Bolan for 502 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: for taking us on this journey into butter and Religion, 503 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: Max Williams, Producer extraordinaire Christopher haciotas here in Spirit, Alex Williams, 504 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: who composed our theme. Big big thanks to our research associate, 505 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: the one and only gay Bluesier, And big thanks to 506 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: our own what would you call him? The main Protestant 507 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:54,879 Speaker 1: of this reformed episode, Jonathan Strickland. He does protest a lot. Yeah, 508 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: I was going for the protest thing. We'll see you 509 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:08,359 Speaker 1: next time Flix. Yeah. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, 510 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app Apple podcast, or wherever 511 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:12,760 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.