1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty and relationships. It's the Velvet's 2 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson. The people are going to 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: be like, what are they talking about to start, but 4 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: but tell them what you were just telling me. Let's 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: go right in. I'm Kevin Griffin, um the Velvet's Edge, 6 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: and I was just saying that velvet's Velvet's Edge sounds 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,319 Speaker 1: rather provocative because it's the softest of velvet, but the 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: edginess of what's beyond, you know, it sounds kind of 9 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,959 Speaker 1: thought provoking. And Velvet's Edge, I thought could sound like 10 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,599 Speaker 1: one of those old on Showtime back in the nineties. Uh. 11 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: It was a show that was hosted by David Ducovney 12 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: before he did The X Files, and he was this 13 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: rogue ish kind of uh commentator narrator, and he would 14 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: introduce these stories of love gone wrong and it was 15 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: always just on the on the edge of soft porn. 16 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: It was. It was. It wasn't that bad, but it was. 17 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 1: They were called the Red Jew Diaries and they became 18 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,559 Speaker 1: the punch line of jokes on SNL and Late Night Calm, 19 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: late night shows like Conan O'Brien. So I think that 20 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: Velvet's Edge could be. Look, I'm just saying, Kelly, you know, 21 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: as the as the podcast explodes and becomes bigger than 22 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: Joe Rogan, you know, next you need to take it 23 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: into you know, the video realm with maybe a Netflix series, 24 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: and I'll help you curate. Well, I mean, okay, yes, 25 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: let's do that. That's how we start. Well, I hate 26 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: to say because I said, I'm not going to tell 27 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: you what it means, because you guys do not explain 28 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: what better than as your means. Like, I've researched this, 29 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: I tried to find it. You won't say where the 30 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: name came from. So I was trying to kind of 31 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: dangle that in front of you. But then you basically 32 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: nailed what velvet means. Damn it. It's figured out the 33 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: line between what is acceptable and what is forbidden kind 34 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: of I mean, I think everyone has a little velvet 35 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: and a little edge. Though. Yes, I agree, Yeah, I agree. 36 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 1: Um better yeah, the whole better the ether thing. When 37 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: we first started, Um, people, we're less interested in the 38 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: band when we told him the real meaning of the name. 39 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: So we're like, let's let's just quit telling people the 40 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 1: explanation and the name is like better than Ezra. Where 41 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: did you get that? Because at the time, nobody was 42 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: named Ezra. No two people were named Ezra. Now there's 43 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: Ezraconic from Vampire Weekend and lots of actors and kids 44 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: are being named Ezra and so but there were so 45 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: many amazed people thought it was a biblical reference. Uh. 46 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: The best most literate explanation is on page to fifty 47 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: eight of himing Way as a Movable Feast is the 48 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: line that says anything was better than Ezra learning how 49 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: to play the bassoon, Like, why don't you guys just 50 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: go with that? I think you know what that's it? 51 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: Hitting Way fan, I was like, you know, it doesn't 52 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: get any better than the pros of Hemingway and a 53 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: movable feast, and so that's what it means. There's another 54 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: rumor that you guys were doing like an open mic 55 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: night or something, and there was a band or like 56 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: some sort of competition. There's a band before you all 57 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: called Ezra. So y'all didn't have a name, so you 58 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: just said better than Ezra. That sounds like the Norm 59 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: McDonald Saturday Night Live episode where he said that during 60 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: Weekend Update. Did he use that line? Oh yeah, well, 61 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: well Norm McDonald. Well, I knew about it because it 62 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: was my band, you know, in the nineties when he 63 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: was the host of this this summer college the number 64 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: one band on college campuses was better than Ezra number two. 65 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: Ezra delivered in a Norm McDonald's past year, you know. 66 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: They it was in the top ten of the all 67 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: time top ten Norm McDonald bit. So it was very 68 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: we got Suddenly I was gonna calls from Rolling Stone 69 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: and stuff like what do you think We're like, it's 70 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: big honor, but it was. It was kind a timeless bit. 71 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's such a good bit. Got to 72 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: be a part of Well, you just sort of confirmed. 73 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: Another fun fact from that I learned from Wikipedia today 74 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: when I was researching but that you do impressions that 75 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: do you know that's on your Wikipedia page, that that 76 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: is like one of the things that they list as 77 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: one of your major accomplishments that shipped off. Have you 78 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: tried to edit your Wikipedia? Oh no, God, I wish 79 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: I could edit it like a lot of my Google searches. 80 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: So what happened is that Wikipedia was the Wild West 81 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: when it came out. Just anybody could edit it. Anybody 82 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: could put anything they want, like like my and like 83 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: that photo. I didn't put that photo. I don't know 84 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: where that photo from two thousand ten. And I'm wearing 85 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 1: like true religion jeans, you know, like the old school 86 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: white thick white stitching. Thank god, I'm not working at 87 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: hardy shirt or something. I would have to quit this podcast. 88 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: I would just say, you know what, Kevin, it was 89 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: so nice to me, know what von duchess back? Have 90 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: you seen how to feel about that? Are wearing Von 91 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: Dutch ironically now? And it's suddenly just like people are 92 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: kicking crocs. I know crocs are everywhere Crocs. Back wears crocs. No, 93 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: it's a lot for me to digest. Okay, but do 94 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: you or do you not? Are you a skilled mimic 95 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,239 Speaker 1: or not? I mean they listed people like Aaron Neville, 96 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: Bruce Springsteen, David I had done. We know. Ezra started 97 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: off at at l s U. And we were we 98 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: were just playing college bars all throughout the sec support 99 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: ourselves rather than have to get real jobs. After we 100 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: graduated l s U. We we would play covers, you know, 101 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: and we would play five hours, do set, do four sets, 102 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: and so you had to learn a lot of covers 103 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: and I think that's where I just started, um becoming 104 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: um good at immitate whether it was bios, most is 105 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: imitating the singers that I was, um, you know, imitating 106 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: or covering. I guess do you still use this skill set? 107 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: I mean you just did actually Norm McDonald, Norm McDonald, Um, yeah, 108 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: a few? I do. I do a few? Are you 109 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: wanting me to? I mean if you wanted to throw 110 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: something out? Is there want? Of course, every every musician 111 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: who does a podcast interview has to show himself in 112 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: the studio. I got a guitar. Uh, you're welcome. People. 113 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: Before this even happens, I feel like this is this 114 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: is a good one. So this is the This is 115 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: Dave Matthews singing the Velvet Edge theme song, Stump Dunder. 116 00:06:54,800 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: Don't this seems a bit of it, Sage bits Stone, 117 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: the bell sch the line between what's forbidden what's desirable. 118 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: This is the pilvitsedge Dum dunda not appression to beat 119 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: Velvet's Edge and we will make a sweet podcast. Oh 120 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: my god, that's it. There you go, calls producer now 121 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: and makes sense. That's that's free. You can you're saying, 122 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: you said, oh my god, that's really horrible. But that 123 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: was amazing. Dum de dum de dum. Oh, my god. 124 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: Actually the first time, what were you gonna say? I 125 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: was gonna say the first time I saw Dave Matthews 126 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: with that jazz Fest, which you are, my fellow Louisianian 127 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: over here. I actually just got back from New Orleans yesterday. 128 00:07:58,440 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: You were there for jazz Fest. I was there for 129 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: Jazz Fast. I went this weekend, and you know, there's something. 130 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: I don't know if you get this feeling still, but 131 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: I can be like going about in life and then 132 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: I go home for even like a weekend, and it's 133 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: like totally resets me. It's like it reminds me of 134 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: who I am or something, because I feel like there's 135 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: no place like Louisiana. There. You're right there, there's no 136 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: place like Louisiana, especially Southern Louisiana. Correct. I grew up 137 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: in Monroe, Louisiana, which is kind of other than by US. 138 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: It's just any place USA, you know, um, but sudden, 139 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,719 Speaker 1: Louisiana has this thing you know, and if you live 140 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: there any amount of time and you were born there, 141 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: it gets in your blood and you know, there's the 142 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: there's them just saying that it's called local color and 143 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: your native air. It's it's the part of you that 144 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: when you grow up someplace, especially someplace that's so unique 145 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: as Louisiana, it becomes part of your DNA. And when 146 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: you're there, you're actually kind of complete and really in 147 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: your element. And and if there's fun, there's fung su 148 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: for the soul. You know, that's a great book title. 149 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 1: By the way. Oh my gosh, write that down, Write 150 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: that ship down. Um. Then, uh, then being in your where, 151 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 1: your native your native air, really you're in your your 152 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: best element. And I'm the same way like I go 153 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: down on Thursday. Um, we're playing. We're not doing the 154 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 1: fest this year, We're doing it next year. Um. We're 155 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: playing the House of Loose Friday in New Orleans in 156 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: the French Quarter. Yeah. I love that House of Blues. Actually, 157 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: I feel like you guys have played that a tome 158 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: in your career, and we we've played that place more 159 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: than any other place we've ever played. We hold more 160 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: more um sellouts there than any other band that's played there. 161 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: I mean hopefully, you know, considering how many times we 162 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: played there. But it's home and we're doing Um, we're 163 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: doing our two thousand one record closer from start to finish. 164 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: So I can't wait to be back and I'll be 165 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: going to the fest and having my not gettish meat 166 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: pies and my crawfish bread and crawfish Monica. Yeah. I 167 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: mean literally, I do no gluten and no dairy in 168 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 1: my normal daily life. So then when you go to Louisiana, 169 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: my body is like, what the fuck? But you do 170 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 1: do it when you're there to I can't not it. 171 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: Just yeah, you can. You can if you're if you're 172 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: gluten intolerant and you have all that food, if you 173 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:23,599 Speaker 1: snort a probiotic, Oh, the snorting is the way to go. 174 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: It's the only way to get into your bloodstream fastened 175 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: the gluten on spot. Oh my god. Well, you and 176 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,959 Speaker 1: I were talking before the podcast because we actually met 177 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: officially Ish I guess in the airport in Nashville a 178 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. We both got uh, we got 179 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 1: what do you call that? Like arrested by security for 180 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: our bags. There was a very strange medium because no 181 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: words were exchanged. We had mass only our eyes were 182 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: like we were both in t s a pre chick 183 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: and we went through and they both flagged our bags 184 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: maybe right, which so weird because we were very close 185 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 1: behind each other. I feel like that was a new 186 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: person working the security camera. Thing in any bag that 187 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: had anything in it, like more than one thing, they 188 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: were like a run it. You know, there's there's no 189 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: consistency in T s A and you can't you know. 190 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: I guess that's just about the nature of the beasts. 191 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: It's everywhere, but every time it's for me, it's always 192 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: contact solution that they open liquid. I'm like, come on, 193 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: it's contact solution, right, Like, what am I actually gonna do? Girl, 194 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: you know? And then we were just laughing about it. 195 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: But then suddenly we were in the line for coffee 196 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: shop and I stole a child's right I was. I 197 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: was thinking to myself, I think I know that guy somehow, 198 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,079 Speaker 1: and then I observed you steal a coffee from a child, 199 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: and I was like, I hope I don't know that guy, 200 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: because uh that it really was. I mean, technically I 201 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: was taking the child's drink, but I thought I thought 202 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: was my milk Lotte. Yeah, it was actually a hot 203 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: chocolate with the hot chocolate, so I gave it to 204 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: the kid and he was a little put off, but 205 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: um yeah he did rectify. Then you went on your plane. 206 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: I sat on my plane and I was like, oh 207 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: my god, that's Kevin Griffin. It all hit me at 208 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: the same time, and I messaged you because growing up 209 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 1: in Louisiana, I literally could not tell you how many 210 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: big moments of my life like that. The background music 211 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: was that Deluxe album. I mean I know it front 212 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: to back. I'm like, the biggest better Than as our fan, 213 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: and so I couldn't believe it didn't recognize you. It 214 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: was the mask. But but they brought us together and 215 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: now you're here. So t s brought us together. Thank you. 216 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: Um yeah, and you're Louisiana and then you I was like, 217 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: who is this person? Velvits edge and two thousand Instagrams 218 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: and h so here we are? So here we are. 219 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: We were trying to go through um just my my management. 220 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: You're in my management? And then uh, my pilgrimage. Uh 221 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: is it sweet talk? Yes? Uh Jensen. I was like 222 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 1: I already am talking to her. Yeah, I found you. 223 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: I got to somehow, so here are you have all 224 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: this crossover? But yes, okay, so I have to know 225 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: everything about better Than Ezra and also like you have 226 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: a whole another life now that we need to talk about. 227 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: But um, like I said, I grew up on this album. 228 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: I mean good all of the music. I know, you 229 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: guys know all these songs, and but I love talking 230 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: to it and every every musician unless they unless they're 231 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: a jerk, yeah, loves to hear about how an album 232 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: is part of your life and the song is really 233 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: you never get tired of that, No, I mean if 234 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: because it's so it's it's just a it's a blessing 235 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 1: to be able to be part of someone's life when 236 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 1: you've been playing for a while, and hopefully that's that's 237 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: what's that's the most rewarding thing about your career in music? 238 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: How did I affect people's lives and how did I 239 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: be a part of their happiness? And it sounds, you know, silly, 240 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: but it's really true, So go ahead, you don't have 241 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: to make excuse Well No, I actually think that makes 242 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: total sense too, because I would imagine it's much like 243 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: anything else, like when I do this podcast, like the 244 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: content is interesting to me, I want to talk about it, 245 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: but what really fills me up is when people message 246 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: me and they say, oh, my God, when you said this, 247 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: it really reminded me of this in my life. And 248 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: so it's this human connection piece that we all really 249 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: really long for. It is in with music. I might 250 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: have written those songs, um, but once you you write 251 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: them and you record them, then there they leave. They 252 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: they are child, they really are. They go and they 253 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: become part of another person's life in there and the 254 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: soundtracks of their life, and they have their own interpretation 255 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: what the song means, often a lot more eloquent and 256 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: deeper than maybe what you were thinking when you wrote it, 257 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: you know. And uh so it's just really cool to 258 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: hear how songs, you know, permeate people's lives. Yeah, I'm 259 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: pretty sure I had my first kiss to a better 260 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: better than song, Yes, I think so. I wish I 261 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: could remember, I know, I mean, it was a really 262 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: long time ago at this point, but I was really 263 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: young then. But I don't think. Yeah, maybe two thousands 264 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: for you, but yeah, I um, I think. I mean 265 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: it wasn't good because that was like the big, big, 266 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: big major hit that everyone remembers. I used to love Rosaliah. 267 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: That was like in Southern Girl, I mean, because I 268 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: was a Southern girl. It was just you know, you 269 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: make the song about yourself, about yourself. You know. Rosalia 270 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: was about I had left Baton Rouge. Um. You know, 271 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: Ezra was a four piece. I did know that in 272 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: our good friend and member committed suicide money and when 273 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: that happened, what what was just just a fun party band, 274 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: you know, having you know, being you know, you were 275 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: like pirates in a in a custom van traveling throughout 276 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: the country, you know, playing music. It just changed, you know, 277 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: and I wanted to get out of town. I'd graduated 278 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: from l s U in the fall of eighty nine, 279 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: and so I my girlfriend at the time, UM, moved 280 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: to Santa Fe for a few months, and then we 281 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: moved to Aspen for a year. But when I lived 282 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: in Santa Fe, I worked at this restaurant. I was 283 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: the worst waiter ever a restaurant in Adobe. Uh it's 284 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: still there. It's a famous place down in the old town, 285 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: right near the Square and the and the owner was 286 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: a woman from New Orleans. Her name was Rosalie Murphy. 287 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: And she was just very mysterious, um magnetic, magnetic personality 288 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: of a woman. And uh, and she was also rumored 289 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: to be a witch, you know, and it was really 290 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: interesting stuff about her and uh. And so that song 291 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: was written about uh Rosalie Murphy and this imaginary um 292 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: uh relationship. And there's also a festival it's called the Zobra. 293 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: Every year they burned this big man. It's almost like 294 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 1: a burning man. They had this big wooden effigy. It's 295 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: during the Day of the Dead celebrations in Santa Fe 296 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: and it's and they burns Zobra. So it's wearing your map. 297 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: People dress up in masquerade masses. So so that's what 298 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: Rosalie is about, mixed with the story of domestic abuse. 299 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: But wow, quite the mix. Yea. Now I have to 300 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: go back and listen now that I know the actual 301 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: meaning because I don't even know that I've ever connected that. 302 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: You didn't even want that I wanted, I want it all, 303 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 1: but so good was the one that was like really 304 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: big for you guys, And I just want to talk 305 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: about you kind of mentioned this this fourth person what 306 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: because that was before any of this actually really hit right, 307 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: So what was that as like a young guy having 308 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: such a loss. I've never had to go through that, well, 309 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: specifically with suicide. You know, um, I hope you never do. 310 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: And people listening you have or probably saying I hope 311 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 1: you never have to go through it. Um you know, 312 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: I guess you know, as you get older, you know, 313 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: I'm fifty three, and as you get older you realize 314 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: that life isn't about um ifs, but it's when you know, 315 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: like because you when you're you know, in your earliest twenties, like, 316 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: I've never lost anybody close to me, and this happened 317 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: to me. I never had that, I never forgotten divorced. 318 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: This has never happened to me. And then suddenly, oh 319 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: that happened. Well that happened, and you look back like, wow, 320 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: I've been through a lot. And the first big thing, 321 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 1: you know, for me traumatt trauma was you know, losing 322 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: my best friend, you know, Joel Rundol to suicide, you know, 323 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: and he was we had been friends at seventh grade 324 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: and he wasn't better than Ezra and he was just 325 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: this he was always he always depression, you know. And 326 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: this is the late eighties, early nineties. There was a 327 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: pros Act that was the first big you know. Now 328 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: there's just so many and there's so they're so targeted 329 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 1: for whatever kind of depression or our anxiety people have. Luckily, 330 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 1: I've never I've never had any of that. Um. But 331 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: I know so many you know, so many people who 332 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 1: have had and have dealt with depression and anxiety and 333 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: how they can just be a toxic mix. But Joel, 334 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: you know, wouldn't see a therapist. He wasn't on any 335 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: depressants and always dealt with depression. And you know, looking back, uh, 336 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: there were all the signs. You know, it's always very 337 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: clear in hindsight. UM. But that was tough. So I 338 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: I that was August when that happened. By September, I 339 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: was in Santa Fe. You know, Okay, you just had 340 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: to get out of town, had to get out of town. 341 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: I was like, I gotta get out of here. You know. 342 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: I was right across an alley from where he he died, 343 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: and and it was awful and and I know, and 344 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: and my girlfriend's mom lived in Santa Fe. So we 345 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: went there. And then I went to Aspen and I 346 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: was a I worked on the top of the Snowmass 347 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: Mountain at a restaurant called winds High Alpine. And I 348 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: was there a guitar ski guy in Aspen for a year. 349 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: And so I went there learned not knowing how to ski, 350 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: and then ended up skiing about a hundred and twenty 351 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 1: days in one season and became a year and then 352 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 1: I moved off to l A and and the rest 353 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: is history. But it was it. You know, It's it's 354 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: crazy the things in life that are traumatic or really 355 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 1: sad or um that push you to that just change, 356 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: that alter the course of your life and I turn 357 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: you in a new direction and and people do that, 358 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: but but events do it as well. Yeah, So did 359 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: you guys think that when he died maybe this was 360 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: it music? Yeah? Yeah, the band was just like it 361 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: wasn't even something to think about. It was really just 362 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: like getting over the trauma of losing somebody close to you. 363 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: And we were just stung and ill equipped and and 364 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 1: you talked about you know, we talked about the stigma 365 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 1: of mental health and uh and um that it's a 366 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: real disease, just as real as COVID or uh, you know, 367 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: a stomach henment, you know it. And but it was 368 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 1: really it wasn't that it was a stigmatized but it 369 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 1: was just nothing was known about, you know that, And 370 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: it wasn't the access and open conversations about normalizing talking 371 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 1: about mental health, so we were ill equipped, you know. Um, 372 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 1: we we just we just went on with our lives. 373 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 1: We just kind of took a break and we took 374 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: about a six month break and came back in February 375 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,439 Speaker 1: of two thousand one and did our first show as 376 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: a three piece. And that's what kind of defined better 377 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: than as as a three piece, you know, Um, it 378 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: meant a lot more work from me as the guitarist, 379 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't. I did play like a very 380 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: you know, a telecaster, very jangly through a thinder twin, 381 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,400 Speaker 1: and then I was like, I need to get serious 382 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 1: and got a lot better as a guitarist and got 383 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: a less Paul Gibson and in a big Marshall stack 384 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: and that really again, that kind of changed the sound 385 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: of the band, you know, and um by you know 386 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: it had to, and so so many things happened from 387 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: that moment. But ultimately, you know, uh, no regrets, no 388 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: looking back. But yeah, it was a tough time, and 389 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 1: you know, you don't choose those times where you have 390 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: to grow up really fast. I could imagine, I mean, 391 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: and that was something I actually didn't know either until 392 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: I was reading about the band earlier, and um, It 393 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: was interesting to me because it did y'all had this 394 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,679 Speaker 1: like gap. But then the band that I know it 395 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: blew up. And I've mentioned good a bunch of times. 396 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: I was. I was listening in the cards having earlier 397 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: and it's like, I will never forget that ah. Like 398 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: I'm not a I'm not a singer, but part yes, 399 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: it's just like it is such a I could like 400 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: picture myself as a kid driving around like dancing with 401 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 1: my friends, and I was just like singing that. I mean, 402 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: it's a huge, massive song. It is you know, it's 403 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: um it is well the wa the wah was supposed 404 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: to be a lyric, I mean it really. I never 405 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 1: finished the song, so I came up with the song 406 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: and I wanted to. I've been listening to a lot 407 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: of Dylan and uh and I wanted to in the Pixies. 408 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: The Pixies were you know, ladies band with Frank Black 409 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: and one of my favorite bands ever, and those Dylan 410 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: and the Pixies, you know, we're famous. We're just playing 411 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: a song and it's very obviously obvious to me now 412 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,439 Speaker 1: as a professional songwriter. At the time, it was like 413 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 1: an ahamam where oh, I can just write a song 414 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: with the same four chords over and over again and 415 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: using dynamics, you know in nineties terms, using a distortion 416 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 1: pedal um make a song and so good was really 417 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: an exercise me trying to write a Dylan meets uh 418 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: uh Pixies meets R E M song. And so I 419 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: wrote the song and I was it had the ah 420 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: ha it was good part and I played it that 421 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: it's rehearsal. And we were opening for a band called 422 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: POI Dog Pondering, which was this band that almost made 423 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: it in the early nineties. They were out of Austin, Texas, 424 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: and we opened for them, and uh we played good 425 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 1: with incomplete lyrics, and everybody just flipped. I was for 426 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: this new song, even the band, the members in the 427 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 1: band POYT Dog Pondering came out because you guys are 428 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: you guys are really good. It was we were hanging 429 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 1: out having drinks and like that one song, the want 430 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 1: Aw song. I was like, oh my god, that's the 431 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: that's that elusive hook. And I never it wasn't meant 432 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 1: to be a hook. And you know, and here I am, 433 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: thirty years later, still singing oneh my god, it's really funny. 434 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: But that's been such a good song, I mean pun intended, 435 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: you know, it's been such just you know, it's a 436 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: three minute and nine second long song that changed my 437 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: life and will always be known, you know, I'll always 438 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: be connected with that song. And it's and it's uh, 439 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: it's pretty special and um yeah, it's the thirty second 440 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,239 Speaker 1: most played alternative song ever according to Billboards. Really, I mean, 441 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: I'm not surprised. It's pretty nice, you know, because you 442 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: unless you're some massive musician like you're in Green Day 443 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 1: or YouTube or cold Play, you know, you always say, oh, 444 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: I wish this would have happened, or are that I 445 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: wish I could have been this, or we should have 446 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: been you know, bigger, all these kind of things. Then 447 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: you say, wait a second, I've had I'm I still do. 448 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: I play all over the country and a lot of 449 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: parts of the world playing this this music, and I 450 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: get to play beautiful arenas and stuff and and it's 451 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: pretty great, you know, And I've got nothing but gratitude, 452 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: you know, for for being able to do it and 453 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: still being in music. This silly thing. When I was 454 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: in second grade, I wanted to be music, you know, 455 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 1: listening to Elton John goodbye yell Bick Road, you know, 456 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 1: in my bedroom, you know, on an LP and dreaming 457 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: of being a musician and singing and just being intoxicated 458 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: by music and it was just everything and now I 459 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: get to do it. Still, it's great, right, It's kind 460 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: of amazing when you get to make that kind of 461 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: stuff a job. The same way about my job. I 462 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: mean yeah, people say what would you do? I mean, 463 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,959 Speaker 1: what do you do for fun? My job? Yeah right, 464 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 1: I mean to a fault. It's like, you know, my 465 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: family instead of like quit. They can tell when I 466 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 1: check out, when I have a song in my head, 467 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 1: I'll just check out. I'll write I'm writing a note 468 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: an idea, usually their shitty note ideas. But you have 469 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: a lot of titles and anyhow, sorry right now, and 470 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: again they hit well. I think it's such a happy 471 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: accident because literally, like I put you guys on while 472 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 1: I was driving earlier, and it's like all the lyrics 473 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: come running back, especially the one that wasn't supposed to 474 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: be a lyric, which is just hilarious because it made 475 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: the whole song the wah yeah, like when I stumble, 476 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 1: like when I ever I say something this like not 477 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 1: that funny or you know, do anything that's goofy, my 478 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: buddies will go So that kind of means, yeah, I 479 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: love that backstory. Um, well, so you guys did continue on, 480 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: you had this huge career. You know what else I 481 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: was thinking about when I was reading It was like 482 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: the time back in the day, like when you guys 483 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 1: got famous, and I was because I was reading about 484 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: the stuff you were doing and like the shows you 485 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: would do and all the stuff. Could you imagine if 486 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: that was now? Like what a difference like with social media? 487 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 1: Like what do you think about when bands kind of 488 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: hit really big or have like a massive song like that, Like, 489 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,679 Speaker 1: could you imagine if that had been y'all but in 490 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 1: this day and age like like hitting hitting now, Yes, 491 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: I think it would be well, it would be good, 492 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: it would be bad on the goods on the good side. 493 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: Um again, no pun intended. Uh, you know your your 494 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 1: reach is so much greater, you know you would we 495 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: would know if how how we were reacting all over 496 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: the world, and it would enable us to say we 497 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: need to be touring in Malaysia, we need to be Australia, 498 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: and that that kind of stuff. Musicians these days, when 499 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 1: you have a hit, you control so much of your destiny. 500 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: And you know, I mean you really. I know young 501 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: arnists I work with who are are making bank and 502 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: they put their own music out on distrot hit or 503 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: sound or sound not SoundCloud, tune corps, and so you 504 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: can really control so much more of your career. Um. 505 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: But at the same time, uh, the nineties were the 506 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: heyday of the old school music system when physical albums, 507 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: especially c D, We're selling so much and the labels 508 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: were making money hand over fists. And as a songwriter, 509 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: you know, I wrote all the songs I was. I 510 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: wasn't collaborating until the two thousand, so all those songs 511 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: I had written by myself, you know those albums. The 512 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: albums were selling like hotcakes, and I was getting paid 513 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: really well as a songwriter for those songs. So so financially, 514 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: the nineties was if you if you had hits in 515 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: the nineties, that was the time, because now here's the 516 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: deal and the labels were making more money than ever. 517 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: Now let's take that too. Now that streaming Spotify and 518 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: stuff and preached that golden number of over a hundred 519 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: and ten million paid premium subscribers of of services worldwide, 520 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: of um the master use fees because the money for 521 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: a song is split into half. Of the money that 522 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: comes over song is for the master use for the 523 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: actual recording. The other half go to the songwriters. Well 524 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: in the streaming world, and that's really everything these days, 525 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: right the streaming world, the master use is a nice 526 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: chunk of money. That's why the late and the label 527 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: gets that. So the labels are making more money now 528 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: than they ever did. It's the salladays, all over again. 529 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: But sadly, and you probably already know this, and the 530 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: listeners who to the songwriters are getting shafted the song 531 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: that is, the the service providers like Spotify are paying 532 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: us a criminally low amount. So as a songwriter, if so, 533 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: so it's a long winded thing, but so if I was, 534 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,239 Speaker 1: if I was happening today, you know, if better than 535 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: that was having their moment today, if I own my masters, 536 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: I'd be like it'd be, I'd be doing the money dance, 537 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: But more than likely I would be laying Most musicians 538 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: and have sold the master rights to the label and 539 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: only get this. So a lot of musicians don't make 540 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: as much money on the songwriting side or for their 541 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: label does and they used to, but you do make more. 542 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: You know, you get paid more for shows and stuff, 543 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: so you know, it all even out on this. I 544 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: think it's an amazing time to be a musician now 545 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: because what I was saying earlier, you control your own destiny. 546 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: You can put if you have a great song, you 547 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: can put it out yourself, and you control everything and 548 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: and and and there's no middleman. It's just me and you, right. 549 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: So but yeah, so did I answer that question? Yeah? 550 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: You did? I mean, and I think in the way 551 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: of music, and then maybe like the publicity aspect or 552 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: how you can get your music out there. But then 553 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: again there's also the side of kind of being so 554 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: famous and like what people know about your personal life 555 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: and all of that. Like what was it like when 556 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: you guys hit? Did you feel this major self? Because 557 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: weren't you in your twenties, like I would imagine as 558 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,959 Speaker 1: a like a young man in his twenties, you're like 559 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: ready to go, oh my god. Yeah, you know. Well, 560 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: the thing is, you know, we were I was twenty 561 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: six when as you took off. We were we thought 562 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: we were too old. We used to live about it, really, 563 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: so we used to lie and say we were two 564 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: years older than two years young than where It sounds 565 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: pathetic now, but that's you know, they say about the nineties, 566 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, the nineties the greatest decade ever and no proof, 567 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: right exactly, because so I can't imagine, you know, we 568 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: were just a typically all single guys, you know, ad 569 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: on tour, being in the band and and being the 570 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: number one song and playing Letterman and Leno and and 571 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: going all over the world. And it was great, you know, 572 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: and we had so much fun and there was fun 573 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: times and debauchery and all that kind of you know, 574 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,479 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. I can't It's a different 575 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: world now, bless you, thank you. Uh you know, it's 576 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: a different world now with social media and just the 577 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: also climate is completely different. And I think for the 578 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: most part, for the better, you know people, um uh 579 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: you know it. We're more civilized these days. I think, 580 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: Um god, that's giving everyone a lot of credit. I feel, well, 581 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: look at least, you know, on social media, but uh, 582 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: um god, I don't know. I wouldn't want. You know, 583 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: it was great playing a show and nobody had their 584 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 1: phones up right, and it's crazy now and I love Look, 585 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: I went and saw a silk Sonic, which is brunal. 586 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: My god, I saw it too. It's the best concert. 587 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: That's the best concert I've ever seen in a long time. 588 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: Podcast is spread the gospel of that show. Go see 589 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: it while they're in Vegua. Silk Sonic is the best 590 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: show on every core co. What's it chore choreography, choreography, Yeah, 591 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: I'm familis choreography stage that's uh, you know, um, wardrobe, banter, everything. 592 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: But yeah, but you can't film it. You can't film 593 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: it for you. They make you put your phone in 594 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: a little pocket thing and they lock it up. White. 595 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: The first show I went to three years ago, Jack White. 596 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: We did We went to his uh studio third Man, 597 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: and he played and you had to put your phone 598 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: in the little pouch and then at his show had 599 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: to send this past Saturday night. And so I love it. Um, 600 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: it was a lot, you know, gosh, I mean, it's 601 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 1: just different. You know, I could say why it was 602 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,439 Speaker 1: better than you know, but there are great things now 603 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: and and we would have capitalized on the social media 604 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: and you know, for sales and touring, and that would 605 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 1: have been fun and a little scary because I look 606 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,399 Speaker 1: at you know, at the same time, you know, as 607 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: a as a as as an older musician. It's funny 608 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: because now, regardless of whether I've been doing it for 609 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: a long time, my I'm still compared. You know a 610 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: lot of times people will still want to compare me 611 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: and my social presence to a twenty two year old artists, 612 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 1: you know, and they've got a hundred and sixty thousand 613 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: followers and thou And I'm like, wait, I just sold 614 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: out a sind amphitheater and you can't about the high 615 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: wad what's going on? So so that's that's a little 616 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: frustrating for older musicians. Sure, but you're my fan base 617 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: is aged out of being on you know, Instagram or 618 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:17,479 Speaker 1: TikTok or whatever you know, and so so but um, yeah, 619 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 1: I can't. I would prefer to have had that my 620 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: moment before all all the I don't blame you. I 621 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 1: always say like, thank god social media didn't exist when 622 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: I was in college, because like I don't want any 623 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: of that document you imagine, right, especially at l s U, 624 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: which I know we have in commons. So yeah, it 625 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: was just so so low rent down, you know what. 626 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:52,280 Speaker 1: And that's a compliment people, right, you know, I went back, 627 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: I just played Todd Graves, who's the you know, the 628 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: founder of Canes. Oh my god, yes, I I just 629 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: played his fiftieth birthday at Fred's. No, and if you 630 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: guys don't know, Fred's is a bar that's been just 631 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,799 Speaker 1: celebrated her thirtieth birthday. Wow, and that you're an institution. 632 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: It's a college bar right off the campus at l 633 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:14,760 Speaker 1: s U. But but when I went to Tiger Town 634 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: and was driving there, it hasn't changed. It's just more 635 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:23,240 Speaker 1: beat up. It's like it's like a group of dive bars. 636 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: Bogeyes is kind of out of it. But there's like 637 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: was Dublin still there and Fred's and all of them, 638 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,720 Speaker 1: I mean, and they're all disgusting. I mean it's literally 639 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: sports illustrated. That's before your time, lass it until the 640 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: it was right next to Fred's, it was a bar, 641 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: It's illustrated. Never mind, you know, the copyright infringement, but 642 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: big it didn't exist. Um but yeah, I went back 643 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: and uh yeah, it was suffice to say, yes, I'm 644 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: glad there was no digital proof of mannigans and stupidity. Yeah. 645 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,359 Speaker 1: It was a fun time though, Oh my, I mean 646 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: just just you know, I kept a lot of journals 647 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: and stuff from those early tours and going through Europe 648 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 1: and in South America on press tours. Press tours were 649 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,240 Speaker 1: the best because you would go, you would be flown 650 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 1: to another country. You didn't have to do shows at night. 651 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: You were just doing press in the mornings and doing 652 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 1: TV shows and drinking a lot. Yeah, I mean the 653 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: press tour in Germany put you know, a lot of 654 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,359 Speaker 1: you took off a lot of years of my life. 655 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 1: It sounds like it's a fun time now. Well, you 656 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,359 Speaker 1: kind of touched on the fact that you've been in 657 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: the music business for so long, and I love this 658 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,879 Speaker 1: evolution you've had. We have a theme every month here 659 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: on the Velvet Edge podcast, and the theme this month 660 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: that's just being in bloom, like you're kind of coming 661 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: out of the winter hiber nation. Spring has sprung. Everyone 662 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: has learned their lessons and their hopefully hopefully applying and 663 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,760 Speaker 1: evolving into the new version of them out for spring. 664 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: And so I kind of thought of that when I 665 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,760 Speaker 1: was thinking about your story of just like you started 666 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 1: in this massive band and then now you have evolved, 667 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: You've done a solo record, you are a part of 668 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,399 Speaker 1: the Pilgrimage Music Festival, you're a founding member of that. 669 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: I mean, there's all these different ways that you have evolved. 670 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,799 Speaker 1: So like, what what would you say? Still keeps you striving? 671 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: Because I love that story of like, maybe I'm not 672 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 1: going to be doing this like hardcore band touring for 673 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: the rest of my life. But how do I take 674 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,879 Speaker 1: the thing that I love and keep it going? Um, 675 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,840 Speaker 1: it really is. It's it's kind of a conscious I 676 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: call it conscious creativity. And um and and in two 677 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: thousand one, uh, we have been dropped from our label, 678 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: and uh, we were making we were mixing an album 679 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:57,320 Speaker 1: at Conway Studios in l A. It's a famous studio. 680 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: It's the corner of Melrose and and Sting and Ruse. 681 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: It's it's a gorgeous destination studio. And behind these big 682 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: terra cotta walls, Um, there are these manicured gardens and 683 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: Bougainvillea and birds of Paradise and there's there's three studios. 684 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,759 Speaker 1: And we were there in two thousand and one in 685 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: the in studio B and Justin timber Lake was in 686 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: Studio one making his first album, and and and meat 687 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: Loaf was in his first in his studio see making 688 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: an album and and a manager came up to me 689 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,839 Speaker 1: and got named Alan Kovac, a famous manager, and he said, 690 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: meat heard one of your songs, and he said, you know, 691 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 1: would you like to would you like to write a 692 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: song for meat Loave? And and initially I was like, no, 693 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: he's kind of lame now, But then I ended up 694 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: writing a song for him a couple of hours later, 695 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: and and then opened up my eyes to two, Oh, 696 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,719 Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of different paths I can take 697 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: in my career. And and I became friends with the 698 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: manager and a lot of people if you're in the industry, 699 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: you know who Alan Kovac has a lot of people 700 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: roll their eyes because they've they had a good good 701 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: experience or bad experience. I had a good experience. And 702 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 1: but he said, Kevin, he told me these really wise words. 703 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: He said, Kevin, look at what I got. I got 704 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: real estate, I got you know, movie production, I got management. 705 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,279 Speaker 1: He goes, you just got better than Ezra. He goes, 706 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,319 Speaker 1: You're you're a smart kid. Diversify and so and so. 707 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 1: Starting there, I started writing songs for other people. So 708 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 1: and I started kind of like asking myself, what do 709 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: I have to do to continue to evolve creatively? Um 710 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,759 Speaker 1: to bloom if you will, and and stay engaged and 711 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: relevant and um inspired and um and so I'm and 712 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 1: I realized it was it was a matter of me 713 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 1: continuing a creative education, always being inspired and excited by 714 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: new music and new technology and new ways to to 715 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,759 Speaker 1: get your music out there, and embracing things and and 716 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,279 Speaker 1: always pushing away the you know, the killer of creativity, 717 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 1: which is sent us is um, you know, and and 718 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,879 Speaker 1: just staying um as wide eyed and excited about this 719 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,399 Speaker 1: love of music that I always have been and and 720 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: and and so with that said, how can I continue 721 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: to challenge myself within this industry that I've been in 722 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 1: for thirty plus years? And so it was. It was 723 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 1: saw you know, it was being in a band, being 724 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 1: a solo artist, doing a band with Martin McGrath and 725 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: from Sugar Ray and Emerson Hart from Tonic. We call 726 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 1: it as a Ray Heart. We just played the NFL draft, 727 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: you know, to a big party out on Las Vegas 728 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: Boulevard on Thursday night. Um, you know, hey, why can't 729 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: I pub Why can we know? My whole career has 730 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,719 Speaker 1: been about the question why can't I do that? You know? 731 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,600 Speaker 1: You know it's so you know, I want to I 732 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:46,759 Speaker 1: can publish somebody. So I got a j V with 733 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,400 Speaker 1: BMG and and publish some writers and had number ones 734 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,359 Speaker 1: for Florida, Georgia Line and and Morgan Wallen and um 735 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,080 Speaker 1: you know, managing an artist. Uh. And then you know 736 00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 1: in um us, you know, running the day after Thanksgiving 737 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,799 Speaker 1: out to Harlem Sell Farm, you know, across the factor 738 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: from the factory in Franklin, Tennessee, and going, oh my god, 739 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,399 Speaker 1: and you appreciate this being from Louisiana. I was out 740 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,640 Speaker 1: there catching my breath and I was like, where am I? 741 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,840 Speaker 1: This is a two and fifty acre farm in the 742 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,240 Speaker 1: middle of in the middle of the arguably the coolest 743 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 1: small town in America, Franklin, eighteen miles from downtown Nashville, 744 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,400 Speaker 1: a mile and a half of my sixt I'm going 745 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,840 Speaker 1: to do a festival at Middle Tennessee, like jazz Fest. 746 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: And so my two partners are, you know, from New Orleans, 747 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 1: and that the whole idea of the d n a 748 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,880 Speaker 1: of Pilgrimage is jazz Fest New Orleans, you know, um 749 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:41,279 Speaker 1: and so so you know it's really I just continue 750 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:46,360 Speaker 1: wanting to grow and how can I continue to challenge 751 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 1: myself scare myself and stretch myself. Uh, in this crazy 752 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,360 Speaker 1: creative journey. You know, I've we were talking earlier. I turned, 753 00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:01,720 Speaker 1: I started doing speeches about being creative and what about 754 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: six years ago I did a speech for YPO, which 755 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:09,479 Speaker 1: those are Young Presidents organizations. There's over five chapters around 756 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:14,879 Speaker 1: the world of these organizations that are members are all CEOs, 757 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: and I think you have to have so many millions 758 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,759 Speaker 1: and gross revenue. It's like they don't like hearing this. 759 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,480 Speaker 1: But it's kind of like a fraternity for millionaires. I'm 760 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,200 Speaker 1: not a member. I'm not a member at this fraternity. Uh, 761 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,080 Speaker 1: but I did a speech for them. Um, it's rare 762 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:33,200 Speaker 1: that anything good comes in a bar after two am, 763 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,239 Speaker 1: especially during Monte Gras in New Worlds, you know, and 764 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:41,279 Speaker 1: m's of course it is so so This big part 765 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,239 Speaker 1: of my life started at three a m. At f 766 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,839 Speaker 1: and MS, waiting in line for cheese rice. A friend 767 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:48,799 Speaker 1: of mine I got named Brady Wood, who is an 768 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,520 Speaker 1: entrepreneur from Dallas, was in town with his YPO group, 769 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,920 Speaker 1: and and I was like, what what does YPO? He 770 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:55,880 Speaker 1: told me, and I ended up doing He said, well, 771 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,040 Speaker 1: you should do a speech for us. Let's do one 772 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 1: this spring. So so I did a speech of them 773 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,600 Speaker 1: about kind of like the tools I used to stay creative, 774 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,160 Speaker 1: um in a story arc in my career and with 775 00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,440 Speaker 1: the hits and the and the crazy stories and uh, 776 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,800 Speaker 1: and it turned into this thing. I started doing speeches. 777 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,880 Speaker 1: I took the speech and you know Live Nation, um 778 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,360 Speaker 1: which which uh New York life. I just I do 779 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,520 Speaker 1: these speeches and I've turned it into a book so 780 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,120 Speaker 1: that comes out. It's finished. I'm just doing the Brown 781 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 1: Books puts it out. They want it. We may do 782 00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,080 Speaker 1: it this fall, but I think it's going to be spring. 783 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,640 Speaker 1: So so along with an answer, just I just love 784 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,800 Speaker 1: challenging myself. If I feel like I'm getting and getting 785 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,480 Speaker 1: too comfortable, I'm like, what can I do? And it's 786 00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,759 Speaker 1: also you know, it's also like I'm I wake up 787 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: in the middle of the night going, you know, am 788 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:49,759 Speaker 1: I doing enough? Am I making just like anybody else? 789 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 1: And you know those like am I making enough money? 790 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,200 Speaker 1: And what am I doing? You know, because I'm still hungry. 791 00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,920 Speaker 1: I'm still you know, I've always been driven and um 792 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,680 Speaker 1: so I and it's usually about challenging myself and doing something. 793 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,279 Speaker 1: So my my blooming is is continually how do I 794 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,759 Speaker 1: take the kernel of what I know really well, which 795 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,840 Speaker 1: is music, and and the tree that you know, the 796 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,200 Speaker 1: family tree of music. How can I do everything within 797 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,879 Speaker 1: that family tree other than dance? Oh okay, so that's 798 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:26,759 Speaker 1: where you draw the line. Huh. Sadly no, not on 799 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,759 Speaker 1: Newlands at three am. I best know. I've been up 800 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 1: on that. I've been on that pool table dancing before. 801 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,200 Speaker 1: I bet you've been on that pool table to every 802 00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:40,520 Speaker 1: Friday night. This is why I'm really glad social media 803 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:46,160 Speaker 1: did not exist. Nellie was at jazz Festus last Yeah, 804 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,600 Speaker 1: Nellie was at jazz Fessus last weekend, and I was like, 805 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:52,280 Speaker 1: oh God, speaking of Tigerland. I mean back in Nellie's 806 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 1: heyday was like when I was in college, so like 807 00:45:55,320 --> 00:46:02,359 Speaker 1: tore it up on those pool tables. Oh yeah. Um. 808 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,960 Speaker 1: I was wondering too, because you've had such a hit, 809 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 1: so many hits as a songwriter. Um, I had no 810 00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,759 Speaker 1: idea you were a part of Howie Days Collide. I 811 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,319 Speaker 1: mean that song was a massive, But so what does 812 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,160 Speaker 1: it feel like? Is there a difference between when it's 813 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,279 Speaker 1: your song you're performing it, and then when you give 814 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,800 Speaker 1: it off to someone else, Like, does it feel the same. 815 00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,759 Speaker 1: Do you feel different, like, does it feel this as 816 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 1: like was this the success feel like? I guess I 817 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 1: think it. Uh, it's great because because um uh, you 818 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,160 Speaker 1: realize that you don't have to be on tour to 819 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,040 Speaker 1: support the song. You don't have to wake up, you 820 00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:41,760 Speaker 1: don't have to sleep in your bus in the parking 821 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,719 Speaker 1: lot of the you know, the radio station and do 822 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,680 Speaker 1: the morning show. Right. You can just sit back and 823 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,400 Speaker 1: you know that that was a song you know, and 824 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,080 Speaker 1: and collect your royalties. Um. And it's really good. And 825 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,560 Speaker 1: I think every musician you know, again I go back to, 826 00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,879 Speaker 1: you know, unless you're Chris Martin or something like that, 827 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 1: you know, every musicians wants to wants to be known 828 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,480 Speaker 1: for something more than just their band. I'm not just 829 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,520 Speaker 1: that I'm relevant. I'm still relevant kind of thing. So 830 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,719 Speaker 1: I think for my ego, it made me feel like, 831 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, like, hey, yeah, I'm in that band better 832 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,919 Speaker 1: than Ezra, but I'm a hit songwriter. You know. It's 833 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,200 Speaker 1: made me a lot of confidence. And you know, it's 834 00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:24,160 Speaker 1: sallow as it is. I'll be the first to admit 835 00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:25,480 Speaker 1: that I have a big ego. And so it was 836 00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,480 Speaker 1: felt nice. And that was two thousand and six to say, look, 837 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,640 Speaker 1: I have a number one song, you know. And so 838 00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,200 Speaker 1: I think it was really gratifying professionally to know that, Okay, 839 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,319 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not just you know, on one hand, 840 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,359 Speaker 1: a shallow side, you know, I'm not what I'm not 841 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:44,440 Speaker 1: just a person who had hits. I have current hits. Um. 842 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:49,839 Speaker 1: But it was really gratifying because you know, um, I'll 843 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,239 Speaker 1: always sound like me singing, and I'll and you know, 844 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:54,760 Speaker 1: you know, and I can't escape that I have certain 845 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,560 Speaker 1: chre progressions and things I do that sound like my songwriting, 846 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,040 Speaker 1: and I'm and I can hear it now my friends 847 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,480 Speaker 1: have heard it for a long time. But but so 848 00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:05,759 Speaker 1: it's really nice when I write for another artist, I 849 00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,120 Speaker 1: really kind of get to become a chameleon. I think 850 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,960 Speaker 1: there's two kind of songwriters, um who collaborate. There the 851 00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,600 Speaker 1: songwriters that when you write a song with him, it 852 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:21,000 Speaker 1: sounds like that songwriter. Like I can hear when Ryan 853 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,319 Speaker 1: Tedder has been a part of the song. I can 854 00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:27,840 Speaker 1: tell Ryan Tedder or Jack antonof you know leatures, I 855 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,840 Speaker 1: can hear when he's part of I'm like, like I 856 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,279 Speaker 1: heard the New Spoon song it's called Wild. I was like, 857 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,160 Speaker 1: that's that's Jack antonof had to be part of that, 858 00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,200 Speaker 1: and I looked up on Spotify. You know, it's like 859 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,719 Speaker 1: Jack and stuff. But then then there's the songwriters who 860 00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,520 Speaker 1: are kind of chameleons, who who listened to an artist 861 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,160 Speaker 1: and like, okay, how can I It goes back to 862 00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,960 Speaker 1: me being a good well, I do impressions, whether they're 863 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,800 Speaker 1: good or not. But I'm I'm kind of an impression 864 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,279 Speaker 1: chameleon in that way, and I love listening to an 865 00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,640 Speaker 1: artist like working today, I was writing with an artist 866 00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:02,240 Speaker 1: up in the in the Nations outside Ye and I, 867 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:03,719 Speaker 1: you know, on the drive there and last night, I 868 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:05,879 Speaker 1: just listening to their music and how can I get 869 00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,640 Speaker 1: in their head and make what they do better hopefully 870 00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:10,440 Speaker 1: and come up with a great hook that they dig 871 00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,920 Speaker 1: so um so so to answer your question long when 872 00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,879 Speaker 1: you know it's it's really gratifying, and it keeps me 873 00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,239 Speaker 1: writing for other artists. It makes my songwriter, my songwriting 874 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,480 Speaker 1: for me fresher, and it stays relevant because I'm always 875 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:28,520 Speaker 1: listening to new music and I'm writing with artists who 876 00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:32,640 Speaker 1: are in their twenties and and and I love and 877 00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,040 Speaker 1: I love it because I'm into the music they're making. 878 00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,799 Speaker 1: And so when I'm writing my own music, you know, 879 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,680 Speaker 1: it rubs off. It's just awesome if I'm writing a 880 00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,319 Speaker 1: song for this for this person who's you know, like 881 00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:48,520 Speaker 1: dream pop you know, um, you know, uh, it comes 882 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,840 Speaker 1: off and better than as a song or a solo 883 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:57,120 Speaker 1: song or something like that. I just love it because 884 00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,200 Speaker 1: I feel like it's you know, I feel like we 885 00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,400 Speaker 1: put this a shirt on our life, like get successful 886 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,680 Speaker 1: in your twenties or your thirties or whatever. And then like, 887 00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:06,680 Speaker 1: I've had this story in my head. I'm about to 888 00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,880 Speaker 1: turn forty and I've been like, well, I'm done. I 889 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,600 Speaker 1: guess like this. I feel like there's this message that 890 00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,640 Speaker 1: I got somewhere that was like, oh god, life is over. 891 00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:18,000 Speaker 1: And I had um this fashion designer on the podcast 892 00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:24,560 Speaker 1: Norma Comali. She's seventies six. Yes, she's fucking amazing, by 893 00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,279 Speaker 1: the way, and she dropped so much wisdom on me. 894 00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,279 Speaker 1: But she um. I told her I was about term 895 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,560 Speaker 1: forty and she I said, I just have this like 896 00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:36,440 Speaker 1: story in my head that it's done. And she started laughing, 897 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,279 Speaker 1: and she was like, I was like, why are you laughing? 898 00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,960 Speaker 1: She was old, that's hilarious because she said, you know, 899 00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,520 Speaker 1: it's it's a constant evolution, and we take the little 900 00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,680 Speaker 1: pieces we learned along the way, Like you've taken what 901 00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,480 Speaker 1: you learned in better than Ezra and doing all that 902 00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:52,640 Speaker 1: stuff in a group, and now it's evolved into a 903 00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:56,840 Speaker 1: songwriting career and a publishing career and a music festival 904 00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:58,920 Speaker 1: and writing a book and all of these things. But 905 00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:03,120 Speaker 1: it's not like you lost that initial learning. Does that 906 00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,000 Speaker 1: make sense? It totally makes sense. And look, just like 907 00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,440 Speaker 1: I was saying earlier, you know, when I was twenty six, 908 00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,560 Speaker 1: I thought I was too old. I was like, oh 909 00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,880 Speaker 1: my god, you know, we haven't been signed, it's all over. Yeah, 910 00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,200 Speaker 1: nothing I can tell There's nothing I can tell you 911 00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,320 Speaker 1: that won't make you feel that feeling when you're about 912 00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:28,479 Speaker 1: you about I'm turning forty in July. Yeah yeah, but 913 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,440 Speaker 1: but you know, uh, that's just that it's self imposting, 914 00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,640 Speaker 1: and maybe it's dry, or maybe it's society puts these things, 915 00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,799 Speaker 1: these these fake narratives in the brain about should be 916 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,680 Speaker 1: this where a certain age. Man, I have been a 917 00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:45,560 Speaker 1: late bloomer my entire Yeah. Really, I write with people 918 00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,680 Speaker 1: who were eighteen years old, and they're so fucking good. 919 00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,440 Speaker 1: I sucked when I was eighteen. Yeah, you know it 920 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,839 Speaker 1: took me a while. I mean, like everything I've done, 921 00:51:54,960 --> 00:52:00,680 Speaker 1: it's it's because of his repetition and perseverance and not quitting, 922 00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,320 Speaker 1: you know this. I mean, it's a it's a world 923 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,440 Speaker 1: of nose. It's a world of especially if doing what 924 00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:10,160 Speaker 1: you I want to do this. I want to be 925 00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,480 Speaker 1: a podcast and I had this drive I want to 926 00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,520 Speaker 1: be a songwriter musician being this ban and you just 927 00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,360 Speaker 1: deal with tons of people just saying no, and you 928 00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:19,879 Speaker 1: just have to believe it's not the best that it's 929 00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,040 Speaker 1: not the most talented and the most and the most 930 00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,600 Speaker 1: intelligent people that make it. It's the people who are 931 00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:28,200 Speaker 1: just a little below that who don't fit. Yeah. And 932 00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:32,640 Speaker 1: so you know, through your through your life, you're always 933 00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:34,640 Speaker 1: racked with self doubt, like what am I doing? I 934 00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:36,480 Speaker 1: should be here and look at my look at that 935 00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,279 Speaker 1: my peers there's somewhat more successful. And this is I mean, 936 00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:42,160 Speaker 1: here's a great example. You gotta you also have to 937 00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,879 Speaker 1: have a good sense of humor, like Thursday Night as 938 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,520 Speaker 1: a a heart that kind of ban I put together 939 00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,920 Speaker 1: this according to Rolling Stone last month, a semi supergroup, 940 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,560 Speaker 1: that's what they called it. A little bit like shots fired. 941 00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,320 Speaker 1: Oh no, they're gonna give it. They're gonna give it. 942 00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:02,600 Speaker 1: They can't group, you know. Um. But we were playing 943 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:06,440 Speaker 1: this this, you know, this amazing private event for the 944 00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,160 Speaker 1: NFL Draft at the Bellagio and it's super lux and 945 00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:11,160 Speaker 1: we flew in first class and did it. And then 946 00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:15,680 Speaker 1: fast forward two nights later, I'm playing with Ezra at 947 00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:20,200 Speaker 1: the Louisiana State Fair in Shreveport and it's raining shitty. 948 00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:24,920 Speaker 1: There's there's threty people out there. Nobody knows about this show, 949 00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,600 Speaker 1: and it's just like, what the funk calling my man? Like, Look, 950 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:30,960 Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, it was a great payday, but 951 00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,960 Speaker 1: I'm like, we never need to do this again. This 952 00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,680 Speaker 1: is bad. Look, this is not good for myself boarder. 953 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:40,600 Speaker 1: But you know, you just laugh, you know. So it's 954 00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,000 Speaker 1: ups and downs. You're like, man, this is you know 955 00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,319 Speaker 1: so and so doing this. But and you just keep 956 00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,439 Speaker 1: going and you and you're evolving in like Normacamali said, 957 00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:52,359 Speaker 1: you know, as you get old, you're like, wow, it's 958 00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,800 Speaker 1: the journey and it's just these evolutions, these new seasons 959 00:53:55,800 --> 00:54:00,480 Speaker 1: in your life, these new challenges always and it's just great, 960 00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:04,040 Speaker 1: you know, and I'm more excited and engaged and I've 961 00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:07,200 Speaker 1: ever been and it's it's really cool. At the same time, 962 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:10,279 Speaker 1: I just love, you know, I'm so appreciative of the 963 00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:14,880 Speaker 1: of the career so far and and and um and 964 00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:17,600 Speaker 1: where it's taken me in the lessons and and ups 965 00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:21,280 Speaker 1: and downs and the you know, the tough times too. Yeah. 966 00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:23,800 Speaker 1: I mean it's like you said earlier, the tragedies sometimes 967 00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,760 Speaker 1: teaches the most too. So I've been in a season 968 00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:28,759 Speaker 1: of kind of like a hardship, so I think that's 969 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,600 Speaker 1: why I was like, oh, this is over. But now 970 00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:33,440 Speaker 1: that I'm coming out of it, and I think actually, 971 00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,480 Speaker 1: like culturally we were all kind of in that with 972 00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:39,240 Speaker 1: the pandemic and stuff, but it really does feel like, Okay, 973 00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,799 Speaker 1: what have I done so far? What can I take 974 00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:44,680 Speaker 1: from that? And then what's next? Like there's just always 975 00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:46,400 Speaker 1: this It's a whole world out there, you know. How 976 00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:47,759 Speaker 1: do I want to take what I know in my 977 00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:51,640 Speaker 1: skill set and keep growing and keep growing and you know, 978 00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:56,640 Speaker 1: and always believing that you you have the ability to 979 00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:00,719 Speaker 1: have a second chapter, in a second third and a 980 00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:04,400 Speaker 1: fourth act and and you know, hopefully as you get older, 981 00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:08,520 Speaker 1: you get more self awareness and you know, and you 982 00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:11,160 Speaker 1: can you know, take inventory of yourself and saying what 983 00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:14,000 Speaker 1: is on there's an asset and what is holding me down? 984 00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:21,520 Speaker 1: You know? And uh and and hopefull those things happen 985 00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:23,040 Speaker 1: to you in your life where you have to have 986 00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:25,480 Speaker 1: a you know, a gut check and say this, I'm 987 00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:27,000 Speaker 1: not going down the path I want to go and 988 00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,120 Speaker 1: how do I change that up? And that's when those 989 00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:33,600 Speaker 1: the tough moments are the moments you grow. You know. Yeah, 990 00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,439 Speaker 1: that's untrue for me for sure. Well, let's talk about 991 00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:38,520 Speaker 1: what you have coming up, because I know Pilgrimage is 992 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:43,880 Speaker 1: in September. Is that her Caitlin is like get to 993 00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:49,399 Speaker 1: pilgrim and his publicist is on this call to UM. Yes, 994 00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:53,279 Speaker 1: Pilgrimage Festival, We're about to have her eight are technically 995 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:58,480 Speaker 1: our eighth festival UM September at the park at harlems 996 00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:01,560 Speaker 1: Dale Farm in Franklin, Tennessee. Who is headlining this year 997 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:10,960 Speaker 1: Chris Stapleton, Yes, Brandy Carlyle, The Avid Brothers, the biggest 998 00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:16,400 Speaker 1: Grammy winner of the year, John Battisse, Louisiana Boy, Luciana 999 00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:20,800 Speaker 1: Man Yes, uh and and a host of others. Um 1000 00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:29,000 Speaker 1: l King, Molly Tuttle better than Ezra. It's an amazing 1001 00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:32,319 Speaker 1: lineup this year and it's really you know every year. 1002 00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:37,680 Speaker 1: We we wanted Pilgrimage Festival to be a multi genre festival, um, 1003 00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:40,239 Speaker 1: just like jazz Fest, you know. And if you look 1004 00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:43,640 Speaker 1: at our history, whether in our past we've had everybody 1005 00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:47,560 Speaker 1: from Moolly Nelson to Beck to Holland Oates, two Dawes 1006 00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,520 Speaker 1: to Dr John to Justin Timberl to Eddie Vetter, the Killers, 1007 00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:55,479 Speaker 1: the Food Fighters, Marion Morris, Keith Urban, It's it's all 1008 00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,480 Speaker 1: across the map and and and some of our peers like, 1009 00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:00,799 Speaker 1: what are you doing? You know, you've gotta be one 1010 00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,319 Speaker 1: thing um, and we're like, no, let me see your 1011 00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,920 Speaker 1: pot your Spotify playlist you know, let me see what 1012 00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:09,719 Speaker 1: you listen to and Spotify. Ah. It's kind of schizophrenic 1013 00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:13,520 Speaker 1: people to all types of music. And the unifying thread 1014 00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:16,120 Speaker 1: needs to be that it's authentic, that it's just good. 1015 00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:18,280 Speaker 1: You know. It's just like we were talking about our 1016 00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:22,320 Speaker 1: session today. You know, whether you like pop music or not, 1017 00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,520 Speaker 1: you have to admit that Harry Styles is fucking great. 1018 00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:30,960 Speaker 1: Oh my best who does it? Liker Style? Yeah, some 1019 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:34,360 Speaker 1: indie hipster and you hate everything you gotta unless you're 1020 00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:39,560 Speaker 1: just a Douche Lo great, you know, you know what 1021 00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:42,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it's great, you know, and there's and so 1022 00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:46,960 Speaker 1: justin Timberlake or you know, just just just greatness, you know. 1023 00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:49,960 Speaker 1: And that's really what that said. This year is I 1024 00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,400 Speaker 1: think it just kind of happens Sance and the way 1025 00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,600 Speaker 1: the way it all shook out. Um, this year is 1026 00:57:55,680 --> 00:58:00,439 Speaker 1: kind of our most cohesive lineup. It's very Americana this year. 1027 00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:04,160 Speaker 1: It has some great classic country in it. I'm really 1028 00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,960 Speaker 1: excited by this lineup and and and the ticket sales 1029 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,280 Speaker 1: have been great, and we're just we're thrilled, you know, 1030 00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,280 Speaker 1: and it just gets more. It's you know, we have 1031 00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:16,000 Speaker 1: so many elements of the festival that I'm excited about. Yeah, 1032 00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:18,560 Speaker 1: I've been a couple of times and it's always amazing. 1033 00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:23,720 Speaker 1: I'm coming this year, so there, Yes, yes, I cannot wait. 1034 00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:26,240 Speaker 1: I actually love also the time of year that it 1035 00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:29,240 Speaker 1: is because it's a really beautiful time in Nashville. The 1036 00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:32,000 Speaker 1: venue is easy to get to. Are the few what 1037 00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,760 Speaker 1: do you call it a field park? The park? Okay, yeah, 1038 00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,840 Speaker 1: it's just easy to navigate, I feel, and you wouldn't 1039 00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:40,960 Speaker 1: think it because it's well now it's they just finished 1040 00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,160 Speaker 1: this three lane Road three lane road out and then 1041 00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:47,440 Speaker 1: there's Liberty Pike, which kind of hits it perpendicularly. The 1042 00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:51,800 Speaker 1: aggress and egress is amazing. People get in, that's technical, 1043 00:58:52,400 --> 00:59:00,880 Speaker 1: Uh Gilly, getting actually matters? It does it doesn't matter matter, remember, 1044 00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:04,680 Speaker 1: and people are brutal on social media. A couple of 1045 00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:09,640 Speaker 1: three people, you know, But it's it's just, you know, 1046 00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,240 Speaker 1: it's a farm that could hold eighty thou people. We 1047 00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:16,640 Speaker 1: limited to people wanted just to be fun in lots 1048 00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,080 Speaker 1: of elbow room. And you know, the cool thing about 1049 00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,880 Speaker 1: Harlemsdale is that the buildings are on the Historic Register, 1050 00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:28,480 Speaker 1: that the farm itself as a headliner, and and we 1051 00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:30,920 Speaker 1: just have you know, it's not only a celebration of 1052 00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,520 Speaker 1: the great music of Middle Tennessee, but it's of the 1053 00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:36,800 Speaker 1: great artisans and the makers and and the food and 1054 00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,240 Speaker 1: the libations and the local distilleries and it's just it's 1055 00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:45,400 Speaker 1: a deep dive into Middle Tennessee. Yeah. Yeah, festival dot com. 1056 00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:53,680 Speaker 1: Did I say that? Pilgrimage Festival dot com you guys, 1057 00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:56,080 Speaker 1: in case you didn't hear that, But yes, tickets are 1058 00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:03,480 Speaker 1: silver sale and um it's September, am I getting there right? Okay? 1059 01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:05,320 Speaker 1: So go check it out. Especially if you just want 1060 01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:06,840 Speaker 1: to take a trip to Nashville. I do think this 1061 01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:09,440 Speaker 1: would be a good weekend to do. So it's a 1062 01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,920 Speaker 1: great weekend. Yeah, staying for a whole week, the weekend 1063 01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:18,160 Speaker 1: before Pearl Jam plays at Stay for the week. Yeah, yeah, 1064 01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,560 Speaker 1: it doesn't get much better than that. Bookend it with 1065 01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:24,640 Speaker 1: Pearl Jam and Programmage Festival sounds amazing. We planned their trip, 1066 01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,320 Speaker 1: so yeah, you guys, let us know how that goes. Kevin, 1067 01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:30,840 Speaker 1: thank you for being here. I'm so glad I met 1068 01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,320 Speaker 1: you in the airport. I'm so glad that we we 1069 01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:36,080 Speaker 1: didn't really meet though, it was just it was like 1070 01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:41,000 Speaker 1: an anonymous meeting. Yes, yeah, it was. It was a 1071 01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:44,000 Speaker 1: Louisiana thing. It had to be. We recognize that. It's 1072 01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:45,840 Speaker 1: like even in the eyes, you can just see it. 1073 01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:52,880 Speaker 1: They have really dark, twisted past, but got a little 1074 01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:56,560 Speaker 1: Cajun in there. Yeah, they've danced on that pool table 1075 01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,320 Speaker 1: on top of Judas. That's exactly. And you know how 1076 01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:06,320 Speaker 1: to say chopa to less um. Where can people find you? 1077 01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,600 Speaker 1: Do you know your Instagram handle? You said you're not 1078 01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:12,320 Speaker 1: really okay, Oh my god, I'm sadly into it, sadly 1079 01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,160 Speaker 1: so good. This is good let's talk about it. It's 1080 01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:20,840 Speaker 1: Kevin M. Griffin Instagram and Twitter. Um, I don't, man, 1081 01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:25,160 Speaker 1: you know, I don't do TikTok. I just I would 1082 01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:28,600 Speaker 1: never work. Um. And then you know, I post on 1083 01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,360 Speaker 1: Instagram and then I shoot it to Twitter into Facebook. 1084 01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:36,000 Speaker 1: But um, you know as Ezra Better Than has a 1085 01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:40,320 Speaker 1: new album coming out this fall? What yes, miss this 1086 01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:43,480 Speaker 1: a new album coming out? Oh my god, this is exciting. 1087 01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:45,120 Speaker 1: We want to say the name of We're not saying 1088 01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:46,800 Speaker 1: the name of. When's this coming out? What is this 1089 01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:50,000 Speaker 1: going to coming out? Next week? So you probably want 1090 01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:56,520 Speaker 1: coming out? UM Pilgrimage Festival. Um a book in the 1091 01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,440 Speaker 1: first quarter of three. Then I'll be going out solo 1092 01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:01,200 Speaker 1: and I'll be doing a book tour around the country 1093 01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:03,720 Speaker 1: for and you don't I love to come back on 1094 01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:07,560 Speaker 1: the podcast. I actually would love that because what you're 1095 01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:09,360 Speaker 1: talking about in that book, I was going to ask 1096 01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:12,040 Speaker 1: what it was about, obviously, but I love the idea 1097 01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,840 Speaker 1: of just diving into all the creative suggestions you have. 1098 01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:17,880 Speaker 1: I think people really need to hear this. So yes, 1099 01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:22,600 Speaker 1: it'll be a whole podcast. The books called the Greatest song. Okay, 1100 01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:26,680 Speaker 1: it's a parable about a songwriter amazing well, we'll have 1101 01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:28,920 Speaker 1: you back on. So this was just an introduction for 1102 01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,480 Speaker 1: you people and and Kevin I will be back. This 1103 01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:38,280 Speaker 1: is a bush, yes, this is the land. Yeah, share 1104 01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:41,080 Speaker 1: where in Louisiana are you from? I was born in Latvia, 1105 01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:43,480 Speaker 1: lived there till I was eight, and then Baton Rouge 1106 01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:45,840 Speaker 1: through l s U and then came straight here And 1107 01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:49,560 Speaker 1: what was your what was your major public relations? How 1108 01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:52,080 Speaker 1: things go? Then I moved up here and started doing 1109 01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:56,760 Speaker 1: here and makeup and styling, so yeah, the rest is 1110 01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:59,880 Speaker 1: history here. Where are at the Velvet Edge? Yeah? Because 1111 01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,120 Speaker 1: actually now I have any theme song and everything, so 1112 01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:05,160 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to hear that. I think I could 1113 01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:10,040 Speaker 1: have done it. Just listen it to you. Hey, thank 1114 01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:13,320 Speaker 1: you so much for having and continued success, and I'll 1115 01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:15,920 Speaker 1: see you a couple of cannot wait, and thank you 1116 01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:17,920 Speaker 1: for being here so much. I know that people are 1117 01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:20,000 Speaker 1: going to love this and we will have you back 1118 01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:23,640 Speaker 1: on really soon. Yes, I would love it. Thank you 1119 01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:24,640 Speaker 1: guys for listening