WEBVTT - Is There Value in Gorsuch's Congressional Hearings? 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:07.720 Welcome to the Bloomberg P and L Podcast. I'm Pim 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:11.080 Fox along with my co host Lisa Abramowitz. Each day 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:14.360 we bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:16.560 for you and your money, whether at the grocery store 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:19.960 or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg P L Podcast 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:28.960 on iTunes, SoundCloud and at Bloomberg dot com. Let's now 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:33.240 turn to our own Supreme Court reporter for Bloomberg, Greg 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:35.640 Store to give us a little bit of detail about this, 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.040 and Greg, just to bring everyone also up to date. 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:40.640 The Dow Jones Industrial average a lower. Right now, markets 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:43.400 are selling off that was down eight tens of a percent. 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:48.320 The s also lower by about nineteen points. Greg, maybe 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:50.760 you can give us your thoughts as to the tactics 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:54.080 of the questioning and whether this will have any effect 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:58.080 on the outcome of the nomination vote. Look, Democrats are 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:00.760 doing basically what they averagised they were doing, which is 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:03.360 first of all, trying to cast him as somebody who 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:07.240 sides with powerful institutions rather than the little guy. Uh. 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.640 And they're raising questions about the extent of which he 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:16.520 would rely on or instead overturned storied precedents like Roe v. Wade. Uh, 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:20.120 you know it, this is probably not changing a lot 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.160 of minds. But there are some Democrats who are still 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:24.920 on the fence or havn't said what they'll do. And 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:29.200 I'm sure they're paying close attention. Greg. One particular item 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:31.840 that caught my attention with the course it's refused to 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:36.720 preview any possible ruling on President Trump's traveled than is 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.120 this pretty much par for the course that any potential 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:44.440 Supreme Court nominee would decline from talking about anything specific 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:48.200 about anything unless it sort of setting stone. Yeah, and 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.000 certainly a case that's in the in the courts right now. 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:52.680 This is a case that he knows there's an excellent 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:54.520 chance he will actually have to ruin this in a 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.400 matter of in a matter of a few months. I 0:01:57.400 --> 0:01:59.400 thought it was a fascinating exchange there with him and 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:02.560 Senator a path lay here democrat from Vermont, where the 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.240 Senator was trying to give him, you know, slight hypothetical 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:09.079 variations like could you hit it all June Jews from 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.080 entering the country, um, and you know, you know, could 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:14.639 we have a religious test? And uh, you know, generally 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.600 Judge Gorsch, uh, you know, did try very hard to say. 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:21.320 I can't commit myself to, uh, you know anything. There 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.359 are these principles in the Constitution. There's equal protection, there's 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:27.639 due process of law, there's you know, a statute that 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.680 protects religious freedoms. Those all all make a difference. But 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:32.480 I'm not going to tell you how I might rule 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:36.079 in a particular case. Greg can you comment on Senator 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:39.680 arn Hatch, Republican from Utah, and his line of questioning 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:43.720 in the context of not only this nomination hearing, but 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:49.680 the lack of any hearing for the previous nominee to 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:54.480 hold the Supreme Court chair, Merrick Garland, who was nominated 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:59.080 by former President Barack Obama. Yeah, the I didn't catch 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.120 all the exchange. But Republicans have been been making the 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:05.920 point that, uh, you know this this was different. This 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:09.440 was an election year. We put the you know, it 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:11.680 was basically up to the voters to decide do you 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:13.840 want Donald Trump silling this seat or do you want 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:17.080 Hillary Clinton filling the seat. The Republicans have made the 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:20.160 case that, uh, this was a way to give the 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:22.080 people a voice and who was going to be on 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:25.960 the Supreme Court. Judge Gorset did at kind words about 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:30.360 Mary Garland at this hearing. Um, And I believe at 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:32.960 one point one of the senators I'm forgetting which one, 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.560 one of the Republican senators, forgot who he was talking 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.680 to and actually referred to him as Judge Garland. Well, 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:40.360 I guess that you're not the only one that's forgetting 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:43.400 what's who's talking and who's on first, you know, just 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.680 to put us into perspective, Greg, I mean, in general, 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:49.640 do we get anything out of these hearings? Are they 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:52.520 basically just an excuse to throw every single question you 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:57.520 could possibly imagine at somebody and see if they mess up. Um, 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:01.760 that is a big part of it. Yes, Um, and uh. 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:05.400 Of the answers are are fairly predictable, but there are 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:07.520 some nuances and for people who are really watching the 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:11.240 courts closely, Um, you know there's some good substance in 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.000 the nitty gritty of of what they say. And in addition, 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:15.920 I think you know people who might not agree with 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:18.560 a nominee about some things. Do you think there is 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:22.080 some value in having Neil Gorsage say Roe v. Wade 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:24.680 is a precedent of the court and it's entitled to respect. 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:28.240 Um and uh, you know every nominee who has who 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.279 has come before the Court, are come before the Judiciary 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.480 Committee that I can recall has said something along those lines, 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:36.960 and that there is some value in just having the 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:38.960 person say say out loud that I'm not going to 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:43.440 immediately move to overturn precedents. I wonder if you could 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:45.560 tell us a little bit about cases that are going 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:48.640 to be coming before the Supreme Court and which ones 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:52.080 you believe are going to have the most effect on business, 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.960 but also on the legal issues that presented by President 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:58.960 Donald Trump. Well, the travel band that we've already talked about, 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:00.680 of course, is a big one that's hanging out there, 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:02.760 and there's an excellent chance that gets to the Supreme 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:06.320 Court one way or another. Uh one. Uh. You know, 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:08.400 we're going to see that the Court has been a 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:11.680 little slow in taking cases while it's shorthanded. But if 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:15.040 Judge Gorstch gets confirmed, I think you can imagine very 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.839 quickly you'll start to see more cases about class action 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:22.159 litigation and efforts to curb that. We may see a 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:26.640 new case involving mandatory fees to unions, if you recall 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:30.599 the Supreme Court deadlocked on that right after Justice Scalia 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:35.680 died um and we'll probably have issues about arbitration. Um, 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.520 certainly we'll have more patent cases. You know, there's gonna 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.560 be a lot of big business cases that Neil Gorcach 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.000 is gonna have a chance to rule on. Greg Start, 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:45.080 we really appreciate you joining us. I'm sure that it's 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.240 going to be a busy couple of days for you, 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:49.640 and frankly a couple of weeks. Great story, Supreme Court 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:53.280 reporter for Bloomberg talking about, uh, the Neil Gorcerge confirmation 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.839 hearings that we were listening into. He is testifying in 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.440 front of the Senate about his views and anything under 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:03.479 the sun in his path to go to the Supreme Court. 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:17.920 In addition to hearings at the Senate Judiciary Committee on 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:21.040 the nomination of Judge Neil Gorsuch to take a place 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.960 on the Supreme Court. There was a meeting today between 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:27.760 President Donald Trump and Republican leaders of the House to 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:32.120 talk about repeal and replace the American the Affordable Care 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:36.159 Act for Me, sometimes known as Obamacare. Anna Edney is 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:39.680 our Bloomberg healthcare reporter and uh, and I'm wondering if 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.680 you could describe for us exactly what did we learn 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:48.400 from that meeting. Well, what we heard that President Trump 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:54.480 said was if this healthcare bill doesn't pass, the Republicans 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.479 are going to lose their seats in the elections. So 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:01.480 he basically said, do this or you know, bad things 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:06.400 could happen. And there were Republicans who are against this, UM, 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.039 who don't want to vote yes for it, and they 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:12.200 still feel that way. They don't. I don't think that UM, 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.760 his please kind of changed that at all. I think 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.120 they are actually afraid of the opposite if if they 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.520 do vote for it, that the Republicans are going to 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.600 lose their majority. So can you put this into perspective 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:25.360 as far as what the main issues are that some 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:29.720 of the Republican representatives are fighting back on. Well, the 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.480 ones who are still against it right now, a lot 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:35.720 of them are in a very conservative group of about 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:39.920 forty members. They're called the Freedom Caucus, and their biggest 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:44.560 issue is they just want a complete repeal of Obamacare UM, 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.440 and a lot of that isn't in this legislation because 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:50.040 of the way that it has to be done to 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:52.760 get through the Senate. They're using this sort of complicated 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:57.000 process called reconciliation, and so they're not able to deal 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:00.560 with a lot of them, for example, the regular Leasians 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.320 on insurance companies. UM. That kind of tells them what 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:07.200 sort of things they have to cover and things like that, UM, 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:11.080 and those won't be repealed in this this piece of 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.239 what Republicans plan to do. And those who are against 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:16.760 it want that done. They don't feel like they have 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.400 assurances that it will get done down the line. They 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:23.200 don't know that they can um, exactly trust the Desk 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.360 Secretary to do that on his own through regulation and 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:30.400 that something like that would stand up in court. Does 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:33.800 the President need these members of which it described the 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:37.760 Republican the Freedom Caucus, such as Congressman Mark Meadows in 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.040 North Carolina? Does he need their votes in order to 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:42.960 get this to the Senate? He needs at least some 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.520 of their votes. UM. You know, they can't lose any 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:50.280 more than twenty one members and so you've got they 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:53.000 need to get to to sixteen. UM. And so he 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.240 does need to flip some of those in, even in 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.040 the Freedom Caucus. And you know, right now we don't 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:02.720 know they are opposed to it as a block, but 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.000 we know that UM, a lot of them are opposed 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:07.800 to it, and that the chairman who you mentioned Mark 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:11.000 Meadows has said, you know, we have enough to block 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:15.160 this bill right now, and so somewhere along the line 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.040 between that one Thursday, Um, you know, Paul Ryan and 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:20.920 Donald Trump are going to have to flip some of them. Well, 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:23.320 and you know, talking about Thursday, can you walk us 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:27.160 through what happens if President Trump and how Speaker Ryan 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:30.840 do not get sufficient votes to get this through on Thursday? 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:35.000 What happens next if they don't have enough votes, they're 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:37.240 basically just going to have to go back to the 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.920 drawing board. And you know, but but they have time 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:42.960 to do that. I mean, given that what's going on 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.360 with with Obamacare and getting the insurance companies queued up 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.959 for any potential changes, there's not a lot of time 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:54.320 to do it at all. Um. But the process I 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:56.720 mentioned earlier that they need to get it through the Senate, 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:58.840 this thing has to start in the House. So there's 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:02.840 really they've to find out what they can give to them, 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:07.240 the insurers or I'm sorry to the conservative Republicans to 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:09.559 be able to get this through. That might be something 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:13.120 like moving a little quicker on those regulations to undo 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:16.680 some of the um the limits on insurers that Tom 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:19.080 Prices said he would do, it might be bringing most 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:21.880 to light because we haven't seen those yet, and that 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.800 might give them some sort of assurance that this piece 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.600 of the puzzle that they've been promised is going to happen. 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:31.480 There any ideas to who would be most affected, meaning 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:35.120 the company's most affected, if indeed the plan as it 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:39.080 stands is actually passed by the Senate right now, that 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:43.800 would be hospitals. They stand to lose, you know, a 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:47.400 lot of money because of uncompensated care, which kind of 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:51.640 was the case before Obamacare, and Obamacare has been able 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:55.000 to decrease that because a lot more people had coverage, 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.520 a lot more people were able to qualify for Medicaid, 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.600 and so hospitals we're getting paid when people went to 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:08.160 the emergency room. And under this plan, um in, they'll 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:13.240 be twenty four million more people without insurance um than 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.440 would have been if Obamacare had stayed the law. And 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:18.679 so that's a lot of money for hospitals, and they're 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.800 already stretched very thin and and sort of closing in 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:25.520 record numbers. Anna Edney, we really appreciate you taking the 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.160 time to speak with us. Anna Edney as Bloomberg Healthcare reporter, 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:32.640 talking about the GOP's plan to replace Obamacare and what 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:36.400 has to happen on Thursday for this to proceed. Right now, 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:39.160 just to cut you up with markets, as Greg Jarrett 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:41.920 was saying, you did have a stock sell off that 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.280 is more significant than we've seen over the past couple 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.120 of days. Also in the bond market, you could see 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.480 the sixth day rally in thirty year treasuries is the 0:11:49.520 --> 0:12:00.360 biggest since September. So definitely a risk off sentiment. Thanks 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.160 for listening to the Bloomberg pen L podcast. You can 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:07.600 subscribe and listen to interviews at iTunes, SoundCloud, or whatever 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:11.400 podcast platform you prefer. I'm Pim Fox. I'm out there 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.480 on Twitter at pim Fox. I'm out there on Twitter 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:17.560 at Lisa Abramo. It's one before the podcast. You can 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.079 always catch us worldwide on Bloomberg Radio.