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Speaker 1: welcome to Hoops tonight. You're at the volume. We have
Speaker 1: a very special show today. We're doing a deep dive
Speaker 1: into like kind of a mid season review of the
Speaker 1: Los Angeles Lakers mixed with a trade deadline preview with
Speaker 1: my buddy yovonn Bouja. We're going to get into a
Speaker 1: bunch of good stuff today. Yovon, how are you man?
Speaker 2: Doing well, Jason, Thank you for having me excited to
Speaker 2: be on.
Speaker 1: It's good to see you. We are actually recording this
Speaker 1: on Thursday. I think you guys are going to be
Speaker 1: seeing this on Saturday, but we're recording this on Thursday.
Speaker 1: After a win against the Miami Heat, Yovan and I
Speaker 1: were joking before the show about how precarious theme things
Speaker 1: looked at the end of the first half yesterday. I'll say, though,
Speaker 1: like having gone back and watched the film, like, I
Speaker 1: didn't think they played terribly in that first half.
Speaker 2: It just they were kind of it was.
Speaker 1: Kind of an extension of the funk that they've been in,
Speaker 1: and honestly, I thought that second half was one of
Speaker 1: their best stretches of basketball this season in terms of
Speaker 1: execution on both ends of the floor. And that kind
Speaker 1: of is the way that I would wrap up this
Speaker 1: entire Lakers season to this point is a combination of
Speaker 1: like extremely frustrating lack of commitment to those details and
Speaker 1: then some pretty basketball when it all comes together. And
Speaker 1: so I want to kind of start big picture, and
Speaker 1: I want to start before we even get into any
Speaker 1: like like actual traits about the team. Where do you
Speaker 1: think the team is at mentally right now in terms
Speaker 1: of this up and down season. You have this crazy
Speaker 1: hot start with this crazy low low peaking with that
Speaker 1: Miami loss on the road to a nice resurgence to
Speaker 1: a three game losing streak, this trade for Dorian Finney
Speaker 1: Smith that sends the Angela Russell out, and now we
Speaker 1: have this win against the Heat. Where do you think
Speaker 1: this team is at mentally right now?
Speaker 3: I think they're in in uncomfortable growth period right now,
Speaker 3: because last against the Heat that there were some very
Speaker 3: interesting comments publicly from this group. We spoke with Max
Speaker 3: Christy at shoot around and he talked about how disconnected
Speaker 3: they've been, particularly on the defensive end, and he put
Speaker 3: it more on the players and the coaching staff. He's like,
Speaker 3: we know what we're running defensively, just for whatever reason,
Speaker 3: we're quiet out there. We don't communicate well, we're not
Speaker 3: on the same page, and we botch a bunch of
Speaker 3: basic stuff. And you can tell when we're connected, we
Speaker 3: look really good and we can be a defensive team.
Speaker 3: When we're not, you can also tell ed we're a
Speaker 3: pretty bad defensive team. So I thought that was a
Speaker 3: pretty relevatory statement from a starter on this team, and
Speaker 3: just admitting that this group is not on the same
Speaker 3: page right now and that it's something that they've been
Speaker 3: talking about and trying to address. Then after the game,
Speaker 3: you have JJ Reddick just come out and say they
Speaker 3: had a team meeting at shoot around and he challenged
Speaker 3: this group from a leadership perspective, and he's talked about
Speaker 3: several times this season that this is more of an
Speaker 3: introverted group. They are quiet, They don't necessarily have that
Speaker 3: like commanding vocal leader. It tends to be Lebron, but
Speaker 3: outside of him, the rest of the group is pretty
Speaker 3: more to themselves. So JJ talked about like, if you
Speaker 3: guys aren't going to lead vocally, you at least need
Speaker 3: to lead by example, lead with diving on the ground
Speaker 3: for loose balls, your defensive rotations, crashing the offensive glass,
Speaker 3: like doing the little things on the floor that lead
Speaker 3: to winning basketball.
Speaker 2: And you guys have not done that enough late.
Speaker 3: So I thought you saw that, especially in that second half,
Speaker 3: that the group really led by example and everyone was
Speaker 3: locked in.
Speaker 2: They're playing serious basketball, as you like to say.
Speaker 3: And then the final thing was AD I think pretty
Speaker 3: much summed it up where he was like, whether we're
Speaker 3: up or we're down, we have to stop being front runners.
Speaker 3: And I think there's been that kind of front runner
Speaker 3: energy at times with this group, where when they're up,
Speaker 3: everyone it's all kumbaya. Everyone's happy that they're you know
Speaker 3: that the spirit's great. But when they're down, everybody separates.
Speaker 3: And you've seen that. How many times this season have
Speaker 3: they had a second half where they just get absolutely
Speaker 3: smacked and end up losing a game by twenty twenty
Speaker 3: five thirty points. That's the reason why their point differential
Speaker 3: and that rating are so bad despite being above five hundred,
Speaker 3: is because they have these just god awful second halfs.
Speaker 3: So I think right now they're in this growth period
Speaker 3: of trying to figure out the new rotation, trying to
Speaker 3: figure out the way that they've adjusted offensively and defensively
Speaker 3: without d Angela Russell. But it's been uncomfortable at times.
Speaker 3: There's been some tension, there's been some disconnection, and right
Speaker 3: now as we're recording this, they're three and four post
Speaker 3: THEFS trade, and I think they were expecting to be
Speaker 3: better than that and the twenty ninth in defense over
Speaker 3: this stretch, Like, I think they were supposed to be better defensively,
Speaker 3: but right now, I feel like that they're trending in
Speaker 3: the right direction temporarily, but with this team, as we know,
Speaker 3: it's kind of a week to week team.
Speaker 1: That's why I wanted to start with the mental element,
Speaker 1: because there's a certain amount of self awareness that is
Speaker 1: important in all walks of life. But an important piece
Speaker 1: of self awareness for this Lakers team is that they
Speaker 1: are not the most talented team in the NBA. Like that,
Speaker 1: that is the first thing you have to acknowledge. NBA
Speaker 1: history tells us that you don't have to be the
Speaker 1: most talented team to win the title. I think, even
Speaker 1: as recently a great example is the twenty twenty two Warriors.
Speaker 1: I don't think they were the most talented team in
Speaker 1: the league and they won the title. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of different ways that you can create opportunity for yourself
Speaker 1: through the commitment to those details. The reason why the
Speaker 1: commitment to the details is so important is like what
Speaker 1: you're talking about, those moments where the Lakers have a
Speaker 1: ten to fifteen point lead, but they kind of squander
Speaker 1: it down and end up barely scraping out a win
Speaker 1: with a couple of big shots from Lebron late or
Speaker 1: or it's the game where they fall down by ten
Speaker 1: and instead of rebounding back from that, they just give
Speaker 1: up and lose by twenty five. That's where the commitment
Speaker 1: to habits and details will carry you.
Speaker 2: Like, there is a certain floor that.
Speaker 1: Every basketball team can have just simply through effort and execution.
Speaker 1: If you're just in the right spots on defense all
Speaker 1: the time, and you compete physically for every loose ball,
Speaker 1: and on offense, you sprint into your cuts, you set
Speaker 1: solid screens, you get to the right spot on the floor,
Speaker 1: and you execute your offense properly. If you do all
Speaker 1: of those things, you will you will give yourself a
Speaker 1: chance to fight back even when things aren't going your way.
Speaker 1: And so like when you get up fifteen, if you
Speaker 1: continue to do those things, even if they're playing more
Speaker 1: desperate than you, you should at least kind of hang
Speaker 1: on right when you're down by fifteen, If you're at
Speaker 1: least doing all of those things, you should be able
Speaker 1: to hang onto the rope, and when they lose desperation,
Speaker 1: you'll gain some ground on them. It is a basketball
Speaker 1: character thing that is absolutely necessary. And the reason why
Speaker 1: I ask you about this is this is like a
Speaker 1: non negotiable for this team if they want to get
Speaker 1: to where they want to go. I heard JJ talk
Speaker 1: about I don't want to coach a good team. I
Speaker 1: want to coach a great team. You and I talked
Speaker 1: about this on your pod the other week. Yeah, last week,
Speaker 1: Lebron comes out after the I think it was after
Speaker 1: the Houston loss. I want to be a great team.
Speaker 1: I thought Steph Curry's comments after the game last night
Speaker 1: when he was like he was like, if you guys
Speaker 1: think I'm okay, like leading an average team, you're insane,
Speaker 1: and like, that's the step one is be committed to
Speaker 1: the work.
Speaker 2: Once we accomplish that, then we can.
Speaker 1: Shift to the big picture and talk about strength and
Speaker 1: weaknesses of the team, how to address these sorts of things.
Speaker 1: But there is a decision that has to be made,
Speaker 1: and last night is not the first time this season
Speaker 1: that they've made this decision. Like, Hey, tonight, we're gonna
Speaker 1: do it, guys, That's not the first time they've made
Speaker 1: that decision. It was jarring to watch Yovan the difference
Speaker 1: in the way they were defending when they got into
Speaker 1: like precarious switches compared to the games against San Antonio.
Speaker 1: The games against Dallas where like Austin gets Bam, BAM's
Speaker 1: got Austin in the post instead of everyone standing around
Speaker 1: Lebron hard double teams and they're in position off that.
Speaker 1: Max was really bad defensively in the first half and
Speaker 1: he ended up losing Tyler Harrow on that play, but
Speaker 1: they were at.
Speaker 2: Least offering support. There was a peel off switch.
Speaker 1: There's a like again, JJ talked about we're not gonna
Speaker 1: do one to five switching any that was just a
Speaker 1: game plan specific thing for the Spurs and for Dallas. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna do less switching tonight. Well, Bam sets a
Speaker 1: monster screens Suddenly it ends up having to be a switch.
Speaker 1: He buries Max in the post. Instead of just standing there.
Speaker 1: Ruey stunts, Anthony Davis stunts, They offer him support. They
Speaker 1: forced Bam to pump Bake. He ends up missing a
Speaker 1: hook shot. Like this team is capable of doing the
Speaker 1: things that JJ is asking them to do, they just
Speaker 1: have to do it. And so again, it's not about
Speaker 1: one game, and this is why we can't ever react
Speaker 1: to any one game step one before we go any
Speaker 1: further with this team. What they did last night needs
Speaker 1: to be their journey. It needs to be what they
Speaker 1: do on a daily basis to maximize the talent that
Speaker 1: they have on this team. So the pivot point that
Speaker 1: I see for the deadline and this is where I
Speaker 1: want to kind of shift gears towards what we can
Speaker 1: expect in February. I see two different directions that the
Speaker 1: Lakers can go. Option number one is anchor Lebron, Anthony
Speaker 1: Davis and Austin with two way athletes, and the way
Speaker 1: that this was manifest is like an upgrade at the two. Basically,
Speaker 1: I thought Max was pretty rough in the first half yesterday.
Speaker 2: Max is a very up and.
Speaker 1: Down player because he's a young player, so that's to
Speaker 1: be expected. You have more of a rock solid option
Speaker 1: so that Max can be a backup but still play
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five minutes, get his reps, but not be
Speaker 1: someone that you depend on. And that requires what you
Speaker 1: saw at the end of the game. That requires Lebron
Speaker 1: to be hit in tough right shoulder fades, hitting little
Speaker 1: elbow jump shots and pick and roll Austin to hit
Speaker 1: shots like that. It leaves the onus on Lebron in
Speaker 1: Austin to do enough offensively. Option two is to get
Speaker 1: super aggressive on the shot creation star front, which is like,
Speaker 1: let's go get a Zach Lavine, Let's go get a
Speaker 1: brandon Ingram, Let's go get a Collin Sexton, let's go
Speaker 1: get a Jordan Pool whoever?
Speaker 2: That is right?
Speaker 1: Which direction do you think the front office is lean?
Speaker 1: And I should include two before I pitch this to you.
Speaker 1: The role player element probably includes them potentially hunting for
Speaker 1: a backup center if that's something that you to do.
Speaker 1: But which direction do you think the front office is
Speaker 1: leaning more towards at this point? And where are you
Speaker 1: leaning at this point?
Speaker 2: So I'm leaning toward the former option.
Speaker 3: You and I have spoken about Bruce Brown as a
Speaker 3: potential option that we think would make a lot of
Speaker 3: sense with this group. And I look at the twenty
Speaker 3: twenty model, not necessarily from the big man perspective, but
Speaker 3: the put a bunch of two way perimeter players around
Speaker 3: Lebron in eighty. Have those guys be relatively interchangeable from
Speaker 3: a skill set perspective? And if you can think about
Speaker 3: DFS and Max next to Lebron Ady Austin or DFS
Speaker 3: and Bruce Brown or Max and Bruce Brown and like that,
Speaker 3: there's so many combinations. Vando when he gets back, obviously
Speaker 3: leans more defensive than offensive, but that the Lakers started
Speaker 3: to use him in some interesting ways last season before
Speaker 3: the injury in Boston, So I like that model more
Speaker 3: than the ladder. I think the playmaking. There's been some
Speaker 3: growing pains with Austin as he has transitioned to being
Speaker 3: a full time point guard, but he also had a
Speaker 3: performance like last night where fourteen assists, one turnover and
Speaker 3: it was just dissecting the heats zones. So I thought, like,
Speaker 3: there's going through matchups where Austin struggles, and I do
Speaker 3: think there's some overlap between Austin and Lebron in terms
Speaker 3: of the matchups where they both struggle, where athletic teams
Speaker 3: that can put pressure on the ball can't affect both
Speaker 3: of those guys, and that's when you'll see higher turnover
Speaker 3: games and them not being as necessarily efficient offensively. But
Speaker 3: those were also the types of teams that De Lo
Speaker 3: would struggle against. So if they do go out and
Speaker 3: get another playmaker, I think it would have to be
Speaker 3: a different kind of player arc type than the one
Speaker 3: that they previously had.
Speaker 2: But I think they're.
Speaker 3: Going to lean more of the playmaking route between those
Speaker 3: two paths. That that is my sense currently. I know
Speaker 3: in conversations with people around the team in the fallout
Speaker 3: of the DFS trade, one thing that they wanted to
Speaker 3: evaluate was the playing and if there was a bit
Speaker 3: of a hole there after trading d LO, And I
Speaker 3: think there has been, Like I think that the playmaking overall,
Speaker 3: it's probably been fine, but there have been some stretches
Speaker 3: where they've they've struggled. And I don't even think it's
Speaker 3: necessarily making a wholesale change of bringing in a new
Speaker 3: starting point guard or a new primary ball handler.
Speaker 2: I think it's more so just like.
Speaker 3: They could just use a third reliable ball handler, playmaker initiator,
Speaker 3: even if it's like a bench player, so that could
Speaker 3: like we talked about Bruce Brown as a guy who
Speaker 3: kind of checks a couple boxes where he does have
Speaker 3: some history being that type of guy off the bench
Speaker 3: in Denver, and then he also, excuse me, is a
Speaker 3: type of two way tip, a two AA wing that
Speaker 3: he can kind of check a couple of those boxes.
Speaker 3: Because I think the Lakers have three holes right now,
Speaker 3: and I don't know how realistic it is to check
Speaker 3: all of them. But in terms of playmakings versus two
Speaker 3: a wings. I think that the Wing acquisition was probably
Speaker 3: dfs and looking more toward a backup big or a playmaker.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree with you. I agree with you
Speaker 1: that there's there's three holes. I would say that the
Speaker 1: backup center hole as a hole that most teams in
Speaker 1: the NBA have, And there are these teams out there
Speaker 1: where it's like teams like Dallas is a good example,
Speaker 1: I think in other examples like Detroit with Jalen durn
Speaker 1: and Isaiah Stewart, where it's like you almost feel like
Speaker 1: you have two starting centers and then they do like
Speaker 1: that both of them play like twenty four minutes ish
Speaker 1: and they and they just play their asses off the
Speaker 1: entire time they're out there. That's a great luxury. I
Speaker 1: don't want to sit here and pretend like that wouldn't
Speaker 1: be super helpful to have like a Walker Kessler that
Speaker 1: would be able to come in for twenty twenty five
Speaker 1: minutes a night and play really high level center.
Speaker 2: And help the team.
Speaker 1: But that's a weakness that like quite literally almost every
Speaker 1: team in the league has, except for a couple of others,
Speaker 1: mainly just because there's just not that many good centers
Speaker 1: in this league, and most of the backups come with
Speaker 1: gaping holes. Like I always think it's funny when I'm
Speaker 1: listening to Bucks and it's like, we just need to
Speaker 1: have a center that can defend, and I want to
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, you're right, Bobby Porters sucks at defense,
Speaker 1: and bringing in a center that can defend would really help.
Speaker 1: But Bobby Portas is also really good at offense. And
Speaker 1: whatever guy you bring in that's better at drop coverage
Speaker 1: and tracking guys around is probably going to be a
Speaker 1: guy that janks things up for your offense on the
Speaker 1: other end of the floor, because that's just the type
Speaker 1: of player that you're dealing with there right now.
Speaker 2: When it comes to the shot.
Speaker 1: Creation versus the the athletic support debate, I think it
Speaker 1: comes down to discussing what level you can get to
Speaker 1: on either end of the floor. And when I start
Speaker 1: thinking about the Lakers trying to outscore people, what I
Speaker 1: get worried about is like, can they outscore Denver? I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know that they can. Let's say
Speaker 1: they get out of the conference. Can you outscore Cleveland?
Speaker 1: Can you outscore Boston? Can you like that's it I'm
Speaker 1: worried about, like, oh, like, let's say they got zach Lavine,
Speaker 1: which the those hot, super high salary guys are just
Speaker 1: really difficult to match. But I think zach Levine is
Speaker 1: a really chew in offensive fit with this team. It
Speaker 1: would be an obvious offensive upgrade. Like, do I think
Speaker 1: zach Lavine, Lebron, Ad and Austin is going to outperform
Speaker 1: offensively the top offenses in the league. I don't know, However,
Speaker 1: I do think, because I've seen it, that Lebron and
Speaker 1: Austin and AD can scale up offensively a certain amount
Speaker 1: in the postseason to where they have a puncher's chance
Speaker 1: to compete on that side of the floor. But if
Speaker 1: you anchor them defensively, I actually think there's a level
Speaker 1: this team can get to defensively when they're engaged. And
Speaker 1: I know this sounds at frankly just ridiculous because of
Speaker 1: how bad they've been defensively this year, But in theory
Speaker 1: and engaged Anthony Davis and engaged Lebron, and engaged Drian
Speaker 1: Finney Smith and engaged let's call it Bruce Brown in
Speaker 1: an engaged Austin Reeves that is committed to the details
Speaker 1: and builds out the have it's necessary. Within JJ Redick's
Speaker 1: defensive scheme, I think they can hit a really high
Speaker 1: defensive level while also having a certain offensive upside because
Speaker 1: of Lebron and Austin and Ad and so there's a
Speaker 1: risk both ways. Right, if you go after a playmaker,
Speaker 1: it's possible that you're just not good enough defensively and
Speaker 1: you can outscore people. If you go all in on
Speaker 1: a athletic support type of player, then you have a
Speaker 1: shortcoming in playmaking shot creation that we've talked about that
Speaker 1: I agree with you that has manifested since the De
Speaker 1: Lo trade.
Speaker 2: There's holes both ways, but the.
Speaker 1: Defensive the defensive hole for going for a role player,
Speaker 1: there's nothing in house that can scale up and cover
Speaker 1: for that, whereas Austin and Lebron might just make shots.
Speaker 2: And if they do, maybe you win the whole damn thing.
Speaker 1: That's where I look at it, where like there's a
Speaker 1: certain scaleability with like what if Lebron and Austin, Like
Speaker 1: for instance, last year and in the first round series,
Speaker 1: I thought Lebron and Ad were awesome. That wasn't the issue.
Speaker 1: I didn't think shot creation was the issue. I thought
Speaker 1: the issue was they weren't supported athletically the way they
Speaker 1: needed to be. If they Denver scored every time down
Speaker 1: the floor in Game two and in Game five down
Speaker 1: the stretch, you get stops on thirty percent of those possessions.
Speaker 1: You're up three to two in the series against the
Speaker 1: defending champs, and I think they match up really well
Speaker 1: against Minnesota. So like it's one of those things where
Speaker 1: it's just it's flawed either way. And so we go
Speaker 1: back to my original question, which is like, which is
Speaker 1: like if this team commits to the work, that's step one,
Speaker 1: which flawed path is more likely to lead to the
Speaker 1: promised Land. And I think anchoring them with athletic support
Speaker 1: has the upside of Lebron and Austin versus anchoring them
Speaker 1: with offensive support has the downside of them just not
Speaker 1: having enough defensive talent to get the job done. Let's
Speaker 1: start talking about some specifics and before we get into
Speaker 1: the trade of the actual trade market, where is Vando
Speaker 1: at in his return at this point? Do you think
Speaker 1: his return is imminent or do you think we're still
Speaker 1: a few weeks out.
Speaker 2: I would say relatively imminent.
Speaker 3: JJ said that early next week there's going to be
Speaker 3: an update in terms of a more concrete timetable, So
Speaker 3: that to me typically is what when the team gives
Speaker 3: a timetable, it's like a seven to ten day on
Speaker 3: the short side, So I would expect Vando to potentially
Speaker 3: be back in the next couple weeks. On the shorter side.
Speaker 3: He one challenge they've had right now is that they're
Speaker 3: trying to find scrimmage reps for him, but the team
Speaker 3: has not been practicing. They are not practicing. They are
Speaker 3: practicing Thursday. The G League team has been out of town,
Speaker 3: so he was getting some reps with South Bay, but
Speaker 3: they've been trying to get.
Speaker 2: Ready group anymore they do, so he's been doing it
Speaker 2: with the coaching staff, but but they want him to
Speaker 2: get actual five on five reps with like the team
Speaker 2: and see what it looks like and ramp that up.
Speaker 3: So maybe like the end of next week on the
Speaker 3: very early side, but I would suspect it probably goes
Speaker 3: into the following week. But that then gives you like
Speaker 3: a week and a half to evaluate this group and
Speaker 3: he'll JJ has already said he's going to be on
Speaker 3: a minute restriction to start at about like ten to
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes, so you don't really get the sample size
Speaker 3: that you want, because that's been a big thing for them,
Speaker 3: has been saying, we want to get Vando back, we
Speaker 3: want to get Christian Wood back. We want to see
Speaker 3: what this group looks like healthy, so we can like
Speaker 3: because right now, sure it looks like we need another
Speaker 3: wing defender, but maybe Vando is simply that wing defender.
Speaker 3: Like it looks like we need a better backup five.
Speaker 3: Maybe Christian Wood is that better backup five. But we
Speaker 3: don't know if we're going to see those guys back
Speaker 3: before or the trade deadline, so they might just have
Speaker 3: to make a call as to you know, what do
Speaker 3: we think this group looks like, what do we think
Speaker 3: the holes are and how do we plug that? What's
Speaker 3: your best guest with Christian Wood? Christian There's been no
Speaker 3: updates on so that's the one that I think is.
Speaker 3: You know, I asked about it a couple of days
Speaker 3: ago and JJ just kind of laughed, it was like,
Speaker 3: no update, So that what I'm like. You know, they
Speaker 3: just released Quincy Olivari as a two way guy, added
Speaker 3: trade Jemison from New Orleans. He's a big six eleven,
Speaker 3: two hundred and seventy pound I mean, physical monster, So
Speaker 3: that to me could be a sign that between him
Speaker 3: and Coloco that they're more looking at some younger, cheaper
Speaker 3: options the backup five spot. But yeah, I think Christian
Speaker 3: Wood for now it's that one's on the back burner.
Speaker 3: But but Vanda, it seems like he could be back
Speaker 3: within the next couple of weeks, which would obviously be
Speaker 3: a much needed infusion to this group.
Speaker 1: That's always where I'm at with the backup center thing,
Speaker 1: especially if you can have a couple different types, like
Speaker 1: if you have this big, bruising guy and then you've
Speaker 1: got more of like the running athlete in Christian Coloco
Speaker 1: or Jackson Hayes. Like I think, I think the gap
Speaker 1: between a two way backup center and a backup center
Speaker 1: that you see traditionally throughout the league is like one
Speaker 1: of the smaller gaps that you'll see in the league,
Speaker 1: Whereas like the gap between like a backup point guard
Speaker 1: and a two way point guard feels like a chasm, right,
Speaker 1: Like the the gap between like the Jalen Hoods Chaffino
Speaker 1: types and a you know, a D'Angelo Russell or the
Speaker 1: type of big gap type. You know what I mean, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: whereas like, like, like I think like a Christian Colloco
Speaker 1: type could come closer to a Bobby Portis in terms
Speaker 1: of overall two way impact, just because he's just going
Speaker 1: to play hard and he's big, and he's athletic, and
Speaker 1: he's gonna do all these really basic things. Okay, let's
Speaker 1: talk about the trademarkt a little bit. Let's start on
Speaker 1: the playmaker side of things. If there is a specific
Speaker 1: type of guy that like, a specific guy that you prefer,
Speaker 1: let us know. And then among the guys that you've
Speaker 1: heard mentioned with the Lakers, talk to us about where
Speaker 1: the Lakers prioritize them. Actually let me let me pitch
Speaker 1: you a really quick one. Do you think it's one
Speaker 1: hundred percent chance the Lakers make another deal?
Speaker 3: No, I would not put it at one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: I would put it at let's say, sixty five percent.
Speaker 3: I think it's more likely than not that they make
Speaker 3: another deal. But as I hinted at a little bit earlier,
Speaker 3: the recent intel I've been getting is that they are
Speaker 3: more likely to do a smaller deal with one or
Speaker 3: two second round picks than actually using a first round pick,
Speaker 3: or you know, let alone both first round picks.
Speaker 2: I think part of that is the market right now.
Speaker 3: If you look at the types of guys that have moved,
Speaker 3: it's been those like fringe starter, high level bench guys,
Speaker 3: the Schroeders, DFS, Dlo, Nick Richards. So I think if
Speaker 3: there will be better players that move around the deadline,
Speaker 3: but right now teams will really hesitant to move first
Speaker 3: round picks in general.
Speaker 2: Now I don't agree with that strategy.
Speaker 3: I think if you're the Lakers, like we've talked about
Speaker 3: it several times over the past year, you got to
Speaker 3: go for it. You have eighteen months potentially with Lebron
Speaker 3: and Ad left, and I think you need to make
Speaker 3: the most of it. Put the picks on the table,
Speaker 3: go take a bigger swing. But the recent until I've
Speaker 3: heard it, seems to be trending toward them leaning more
Speaker 3: toward making a smaller deal than a bigger one.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's start with these bigger swings. Well, actually,
Speaker 1: are there any playmakers out there that you view as
Speaker 1: a smaller swing, like, let's say Collin Sexton, for example,
Speaker 1: Is there anybody in that boat that you think they're exploring.
Speaker 3: I think Lonzo is someone that's going to be on
Speaker 3: their radar, and I think depending on the price, if
Speaker 3: you could get him for a second or two seconds,
Speaker 3: I think that's an interesting swing. And also someone with
Speaker 3: that six foot six frame that could potentially I think,
Speaker 3: be similar to Bruce Brown check a couple of boxes
Speaker 3: where he can He's bulked up a little bit throughout
Speaker 3: his career, so he can guard us and even some
Speaker 3: smaller threes and potentially be part of like a one
Speaker 3: through three switching scheme. And then offensively, I think, especially
Speaker 3: if you're just coming off the bench as a secondary
Speaker 3: ball handler, playmaker and also a spot up shooter, like
Speaker 3: I think he is someone who's an interesting gamble for them.
Speaker 3: So I would look at kind of the hybrid guys
Speaker 3: like a Bruce Brown or Alonzo Ball or a couple
Speaker 3: guys that I've reported on that have been linked to
Speaker 3: them having call In Sexton and Malcolm Brogden. So in
Speaker 3: neither instance, I mean, those guys are making a little
Speaker 3: bit more money, so you probably have to include RUI.
Speaker 3: I don't see the Lakers being able to put Jared
Speaker 3: Vanderbilt in any of these deals without including a first
Speaker 3: round pick to attach with him, so that kind of
Speaker 3: limits like right now. I think the biggest thing for
Speaker 3: them is just the contracts are really tough where people
Speaker 3: don't want Gabe Vincent's contract Ruey is very much I
Speaker 3: of the beholder type asset. And then Jared Vanderbilt has
Speaker 3: three more years left and the salary figure isn't that bad,
Speaker 3: but that's still a lot for a guy who's basically
Speaker 3: been injured for two years, and teams are reluctant to
Speaker 3: take on that type of money. So I would look
Speaker 3: at those four as potential guys that two of them
Speaker 3: more wing or big guard types that can check a
Speaker 3: couple boxes, and then two of them the more traditional
Speaker 3: backup slash you know, off guard in Sexton and broad Day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Lonzo Ball is an interesting option. I actually think
Speaker 1: he'd be a fantastic fit alongside Austin. I think he's
Speaker 1: a good defender. I think he plays hard and competes
Speaker 1: for loose balls. I think he's a more natural offensive
Speaker 1: fit with everybody because he's a guy that can knock down,
Speaker 1: catch and shoot jump shots. Is really good like connective passer,
Speaker 1: like he is like Austin in that regard for when
Speaker 1: he's driving closeouts, he's so good at like making that
Speaker 1: next play, and there's a lot of good there. I
Speaker 1: just am so freaked out about Lonzo's health. It just
Speaker 1: feels like such a gamble.
Speaker 2: For a guy.
Speaker 1: Like there's there's health conversations around guys that I think
Speaker 1: are somewhat unfair, like sometimes like guys like Cam Johnson
Speaker 1: or Zach Lavine. Like Zach Lavine, like, yeah, he had
Speaker 1: a bad year last year. He played seventy seven games
Speaker 1: a year before, and in the five years before he
Speaker 1: averaged like sixty seven games played or sixty five games
Speaker 1: played or something like that. Like there's that, and then
Speaker 1: there's the I haven't touched a basketball in years thing
Speaker 1: with with Lonzo ball, right, and like that That's where
Speaker 1: it gets a little a little freaky for me. I'm
Speaker 1: kind of out on Malcolm Brogden because it's like injury
Speaker 1: concerns and I just don't think he's particularly great on
Speaker 1: either end of the ball. The reason why I am
Speaker 1: partial to the Bruce Brown thing is I actually I
Speaker 1: think that the Lakers struggle with ball pressure in a
Speaker 1: way that is separate from some of their half court
Speaker 1: shot creation stuff. Like I think when they get pressured
Speaker 1: and they don't get into their offense until later in
Speaker 1: the clock, they can get stagged and things can fall apart.
Speaker 1: But when they get the ball up the floor and
Speaker 1: they run their stuff, I feel like they do okay.
Speaker 1: And one of the things that Bruce Brown did for
Speaker 1: Denver for ages, it wasn't like he was quote unquote
Speaker 1: running the offense. He would just bring the ball up
Speaker 1: the floor and make the high post entry tookitch and
Speaker 1: then they would go play their play their game. And
Speaker 1: so it was Bruce has a unique ability to just
Speaker 1: like grab and go that allows you to deal with
Speaker 1: ball pressure in the backcourt and get the ball at
Speaker 1: the floor and get into your offense. And so I
Speaker 1: think that's why Bruce remains my favorite option, because he
Speaker 1: brings a bunch of different characteristics to the table that
Speaker 1: accentuate the team. Like he's a good rebounder. This team
Speaker 1: is desperate for guys that are good rebounders, can handle
Speaker 1: ball pressure and bring the ball to the floor, something
Speaker 1: this team desperately needs. The catch and shoot think can
Speaker 1: get a little tricky. But like I don't know about
Speaker 1: you guys, but when I was watching Max and Cam
Speaker 1: just break every open three in the Spurs game, I
Speaker 1: wasn't exactly out there thinking like, oh, but Bruce can't
Speaker 1: shoot either, you know, like it's like like an upgrade's
Speaker 1: and upgrade at the end of the day.
Speaker 2: Colin Sexton is an interesting option. I think.
Speaker 1: I think he represents a middle ground in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways because he one has like legit offensive upside. Two,
Speaker 1: he competes on defense as a ball pressure guy. Three,
Speaker 1: he's at a more achievable salary. And for you could
Speaker 1: kind of envision a scenario where he could be that
Speaker 1: fifth guy at times where on certain nights it makes
Speaker 1: sense to go Austin Colin dfs lebron ad. But then like,
Speaker 1: if the matchups are different, you can go to a
Speaker 1: different guy at that two guard spot. But he also
Speaker 1: get an anchor bench units, like, oh Austin's out for
Speaker 1: a night, Well, Colin can scale into a role like that,
Speaker 1: like if Austin misses a game at some point this season,
Speaker 1: what the hell are the Lakers gonna do in terms
Speaker 1: of guard ball handling, Like, I get.
Speaker 2: That Austin plays all that shit exist we saw last night.
Speaker 1: Good God, yeah exactly, So I think I think Colin
Speaker 1: there's a deal that I that I kind of like
Speaker 1: was looking at where it's like, what if you did
Speaker 1: something with Utah where you got Kessler and Sexton and
Speaker 1: you did something with the pick protections from the original
Speaker 1: d LO trade. Do you think that a deal is
Speaker 1: anywhere near the top of the Lakers radar that sort
Speaker 1: of deal.
Speaker 2: Those are both guys that they've had interest in.
Speaker 3: I reported on you know that they had some extensive
Speaker 3: talks with Utah before the season.
Speaker 2: For Kessler. The biggest hurdle right now is just the
Speaker 2: asking price.
Speaker 3: Utah wants two first round picks for Walker Kessler, and
Speaker 3: that's not factoring in the potential inclusion of Calling Sexton
Speaker 3: in a deal. I will say if the Lakers are
Speaker 3: willing to include Rui in such a deal, which right
Speaker 3: now that they do value Rui a lot and view
Speaker 3: him as a longer term piece. But I think for
Speaker 3: the right deal that they would be willing to include him.
Speaker 3: You could do something like ru Jhs and Christian Wood
Speaker 3: with a first round pick.
Speaker 2: You could remove the protections.
Speaker 3: You could even throw in a pick swap or a
Speaker 3: couple seconds if they really want additional draft assets for
Speaker 3: Walker Kessler and calling Sexton, and on the Laker side,
Speaker 3: obviously you're getting Sexton in Kesler, but you're you're saving
Speaker 3: two million on your tax.
Speaker 2: Sheet this year, so that that's good for.
Speaker 3: Them, but then longer term for Utah, you're actually saving
Speaker 3: some money next year because JHS and christian Wood are
Speaker 3: expiring contracts and ruly makes less than Kessler and Sexton combined,
Speaker 3: so in terms of getting the.
Speaker 2: Draft cap and you gotta pay.
Speaker 3: And yeah, so I think that that, like in theory,
Speaker 3: is something that that makes sense.
Speaker 2: It just kind of comes back to the asking price.
Speaker 3: And I guess I'm more willing to give up both
Speaker 3: first round picks if I'm getting both of those guys,
Speaker 3: like I do. Like what we could talk individual guys,
Speaker 3: But there are some potential packages out there of a Sexton, Kessler,
Speaker 3: a brown Yakup Pardle, and to a much lesser extent,
Speaker 3: at least from my perspective, Malcolm brogged in Jonis Valentiunis
Speaker 3: and all those pairings are realistic. From a salary perspective,
Speaker 3: Lakers can mix a match basically Ruy and Gabe as
Speaker 3: the starting point, and then depending on how many other
Speaker 3: salaries they have to put into the match. But I
Speaker 3: think those are all again brogged in valentunis not as
Speaker 3: sold on on those two guys, but especially the other
Speaker 3: two Purl and Brown or Cussler and Sexton.
Speaker 2: If you can get.
Speaker 3: Those types of guys, you know, those types of duos back,
Speaker 3: I think that checks a couple of boxes, and potentially,
Speaker 3: depending on who you're sending out, this kind of reshuffles
Speaker 3: this group and add some size, add some defensive versatility,
Speaker 3: and I just think makes them a more viable playoff threat.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The one thing I would say if they did get
Speaker 1: a call in Sexton is I would I would That's
Speaker 1: where I would turn around and I'd explore looking at
Speaker 1: something that's on the side for a guy like a
Speaker 1: Josh Green, where I would still be concerned about not
Speaker 1: having the perfect two for closing games because I keep
Speaker 1: thinking about the final five. Like my basketball philosophy centers
Speaker 1: around the five first and goes out from there.
Speaker 2: And that's why I.
Speaker 1: Think Ruey has to be included in any deal. That
Speaker 1: if if Ruey is the asking price in a deal
Speaker 1: that brings back a player that is in that five,
Speaker 1: then I think you gotta do it, because to me,
Speaker 1: Ruey is not in that five. He's in that five
Speaker 1: some nights but he's not in that five every night,
Speaker 1: like you know Austin is, you know Lebron is, you
Speaker 1: know a d is Who's who's it gonna be in
Speaker 1: the two three? When the when it's pivotal game two,
Speaker 1: you're down one zero on the road in Okay, see
Speaker 1: it's ninety five ninety five with five minutes left. Who
Speaker 1: do you have out there that That concept, to me
Speaker 1: is like there needs to be a more high floor
Speaker 1: option than what they have on the roster right now.
Speaker 1: And that's why I would look at in that direction
Speaker 1: if they made that sort of deal. But the Sexton,
Speaker 1: Kessler Edwards deal is an interesting deal to me on
Speaker 1: a bunch of levels because I think it's a massive
Speaker 1: regular season floor razer in terms of like your ability
Speaker 1: to sit Anthony Davis for a game, or your ability
Speaker 1: to sit Lebron or Austin for a game. I think
Speaker 1: if I think it's going to be difficult to overcome
Speaker 1: that at this point without that type of deal. Before
Speaker 1: we move on to the role player corp, is there
Speaker 1: a any.
Speaker 2: So is it exactly in completely off the table?
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say completely off the table, but from a
Speaker 3: salary matching perspective, it's it's really hard, like one of
Speaker 3: the only negatives.
Speaker 2: In my opinion of the deal.
Speaker 3: Like, I think there's two clear negatives from the Delo trade,
Speaker 3: and one was obviously the hit in playmaking that they've taken.
Speaker 3: But the second thing is just from a salary matching perspective,
Speaker 3: any bigger trade was likely going to have to require
Speaker 3: d Loo both for or the actual salary number of
Speaker 3: just under nineteen million. But also he's the only double
Speaker 3: digit salary that they have that's expiring. So if you
Speaker 3: are giving up a lot of salary, you don't want
Speaker 3: to necessarily be taking back RUI gave van Do and
Speaker 3: having all those guys on the books next season and
Speaker 3: then in Vando's case, two more years after that. So like,
Speaker 3: because then the asking price kind of changes of some
Speaker 3: of these guys who don't necessarily have value. It's one
Speaker 3: thing if you're giving up expiring contracts or semi valuable contracts,
Speaker 3: but once you start giving up salary that teams don't
Speaker 3: want back in return for salary that they don't want,
Speaker 3: they're going to start asking for stuff that the Lakers
Speaker 3: aren't gonna want to give up. So I wouldn't say
Speaker 3: he's off the table entirely. My reservation with it is
Speaker 3: you talk about the closing five, and like, I just
Speaker 3: have concerns about a zach Lavine. Austin reeves back court
Speaker 3: defensively when it comes down to it, and I think
Speaker 3: if you go the zach Lavine route, I almost wonder
Speaker 3: if you have to consider moving Austin at that point
Speaker 3: either probably not in that deal, maybe in a separate
Speaker 3: deal to get something else back.
Speaker 2: I almost feel like you have to kind of.
Speaker 3: Restructure your entire top of the roster and like the
Speaker 3: hierarchy of it, just because I feel like zach Lavine
Speaker 3: and Austin it's a better version of the Austin Dilo situation.
Speaker 3: But there's still similar concerns of I think Zach like,
Speaker 3: we've never really seen him in high stakes games, so
Speaker 3: that's kind of its own thing, but I think teams
Speaker 3: will target him. He's improved defensively, but he's still a
Speaker 3: glaring minus and I don't know how he fits into
Speaker 3: this roster from like a team defense perspective when we
Speaker 3: just haven't really seen it from him in big moments.
Speaker 3: So that would be my concern with that of just
Speaker 3: what that looks like and what that fit is and
Speaker 3: then potentially having to pivot and go in a different direction.
Speaker 3: So I think between some of the big names out there,
Speaker 3: I like Brandon Ingram more than Zach Lvine. I also
Speaker 3: think Ingram, I know, is not like he profiles as
Speaker 3: a better defender than he actually is, but at least
Speaker 3: like I think he can fit off the ball a
Speaker 3: little bit cleaner. And he also is six point eight
Speaker 3: six foot nine, so like he has a certain level
Speaker 3: of length and athleticism out there that if you can
Speaker 3: find a way to channel it, I think he could
Speaker 3: be I mean this is in a positive way, but
Speaker 3: like a better version of RUI, like a much higher
Speaker 3: version of Rui. And that's something that I think could
Speaker 3: fit in that closing five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, every time I watch dak Lavine play, I have
Speaker 1: my basketball fan in me that gets super excited about
Speaker 1: what it would look like if he was playing alongside
Speaker 1: Lebron and Ad. But then every time I follow it
Speaker 1: through to fruition, I just get immediately off board in
Speaker 1: terms of all the other holes that it opens up.
Speaker 1: And to your point, it just there's a version of
Speaker 1: it where you make several moves and it kind of
Speaker 1: pieces together into a new team. But now you've got
Speaker 1: a brand new team, and it just it just involves
Speaker 1: a great deal of risk. And that's before we even
Speaker 1: get into the injury stuff, which, like I said, is
Speaker 1: I think a little overblown with Levine. But there's just
Speaker 1: been an often the issues over the years that it's
Speaker 1: worth mentioning brandon Ingram was going to be the next
Speaker 1: guy I brought up. He's a more achievable salary point.
Speaker 1: But it opens up the same sort of issue in
Speaker 1: terms of like, okay, but now what are you doing
Speaker 1: at the two? Let me just pitch it to you
Speaker 1: like this, Do you think the Lakers are seriously exploring
Speaker 1: a brandon Ingram trade or do you think that's more
Speaker 1: in the zach Lavine territory.
Speaker 2: I think it's more in the zach Lavine territory.
Speaker 3: But I think he's someone that, depending on the price,
Speaker 3: they would have interest in.
Speaker 2: But it's your point.
Speaker 3: It does like you've already made the move for DFS
Speaker 3: and theoretically you're not trying to shop him or reduces
Speaker 3: like you want a certain role for him as either
Speaker 3: a starting level guy or or closing level guy. A
Speaker 3: big piece of irritation. Can you go brandon Ingram DFS
Speaker 3: on the wings. So Ingram and DFS in theory could work,
Speaker 3: but I think they're going to be tested in terms
Speaker 3: of their primitive quickness, lateral agility, and just ability to
Speaker 3: contain the ball. And I think from a salary perspective,
Speaker 3: like it is much easier to make him work. As
Speaker 3: you mentioned, he's in the mid thirties, so you can
Speaker 3: get there with Ruy and Gabe, you're at about twenty nine,
Speaker 3: and then you know you're throw in a couple of
Speaker 3: minimum guys. Maybe they take on a JHS as like
Speaker 3: a low stake scandal or something, but that one's more
Speaker 3: I think realistic, just from making it work once you
Speaker 3: get into the forties with guys like Zach Lavine, guys
Speaker 3: like Jimmy Butler, I think that's where the Lakers just
Speaker 3: don't really have the matching salary.
Speaker 1: So I agree when it comes to the other big
Speaker 1: salary guys like I'm out on like a Jimmy Butler
Speaker 1: trader Zach Lavine trade. If if you called David Griffin
Speaker 1: and you could get brandon Ingram, I think you do it.
Speaker 1: I think it's I just think it's such a talent
Speaker 1: play for a team that does have a talent deficiency,
Speaker 1: and there's some things you like, like you talked about, like,
Speaker 1: that's not a team that you talking a team that
Speaker 1: would need to switch. That team would need to switch.
Speaker 1: That's a team that would need to switch, contain double
Speaker 1: and rotate and and even then it would be difficult.
Speaker 1: But like, I think there's enough talent there to at
Speaker 1: least consider it as a play. All Right, we only
Speaker 1: have a couple more minutes, so I want to do
Speaker 1: rapid fire style. I'm just going to hit you with
Speaker 1: some names I just want. I just want you to,
Speaker 1: as best as you can just guess a percentage chance
Speaker 1: that this guy is a Laker after the deadline. We'll
Speaker 1: start with Bruce Brown thirty five percent. Let's go Walker
Speaker 1: Kessler twenty five percent, Colin Sexton twenty percent, let's go
Speaker 1: Brandon Ingram.
Speaker 3: We'll say eighteen percent, Lons of ball ooh thirty two percent.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's two more, will go Malcolm Brogden fifteen percent,
Speaker 2: Josh Green thirty Okay.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think if there's anyone that I'm missing,
Speaker 1: let's try. Let's try like another backup center like Robert Williams,
Speaker 1: we'll say okay, all right, So it sounds to me like.
Speaker 2: They're relatively conservative here, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, No, I got you. So it sounds
Speaker 1: to me like they're still kind of just exploring all
Speaker 1: these options and they're not really committed and they're going
Speaker 1: to make this decision as like a right at the
Speaker 1: deadline kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Yes, that is that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: All right, you havevon tell us about what you got
Speaker 1: going on over at your channel before we get out
Speaker 1: of here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so please check out Bouha's block and my channel,
Speaker 3: Yovan Bouja on YouTube. Also wherever you at your podcasts,
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, et cetera. And then also be sure
Speaker 3: to subscribe to The Athletic to read all my work
Speaker 3: and my reporting on the Lakers trade deadline and where
Speaker 3: this team is at at the midseason point.
Speaker 1: Great stuff has always been. It was good to see
Speaker 1: you as well. That's all we have for today. We'll
Speaker 1: be back tomorrow with our usual Friday mailbag. We will
Speaker 1: see you guys then, what's up guys. As always, I
Speaker 1: appreciate you for listening to and supporting OOPS tonight. It
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