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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media, and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 1: All right, good morning, happy Thursday. Welcome to Breaking Points.

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Speaker 1: Hi doing, Emily doing well.

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Speaker 4: We're on the CUSPO the fourth of July, so that's

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Speaker 4: great news.

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Speaker 1: We are, all right. So today's program, we're.

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Speaker 5: Going to start the Big Beautiful Bill, which I guess

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Speaker 5: Chuck Schumer changed the name, but we're still going to

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Speaker 5: call it that anyway, because we don't have any other

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Speaker 5: name for it.

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Speaker 1: Trump's Bill. Yeah, just go with that.

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Speaker 5: I guess Trump's Bill is as we speak, cruising towards passage.

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Speaker 5: There's Keem Jeffries is speaking, and there's all kinds of

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Speaker 5: kind of parliamentary stuff that they're tying up, but it's

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Speaker 5: going to pass, so that's going to happen.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Mike Johnson secured the votes.

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Speaker 6: He did some arm twisting into the wee hours of

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Speaker 6: the morning, four am. Scott Perry had to drive back

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Speaker 6: to Pennsylvania to get new clothes after vacation.

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Speaker 1: Any he's like York, So that's like people commute from

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Speaker 1: York politically.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we'll be joined by.

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Speaker 5: Will Chamberlain, kind of a mega man about town right,

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Speaker 5: one of the leading MAGA kind of figures in Washington.

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Speaker 5: I would say, who's gonna kind of tell us why

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Speaker 5: this is actually a good thing, that this is happening.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, we're absolutely going to hear from Will about why

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Speaker 6: the writs is absolutely happy about what's happening right.

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Speaker 5: Which I'm glad because it's one of those moments where

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Speaker 5: I just genuinely don't understand it. I usually like disagree,

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Speaker 5: but understand now. I have no idea why they like

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Speaker 5: this thing. I'm looking forward to hearing from Will on that.

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Speaker 5: Then we're going to be joined by Jeremy Scale, who's

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Speaker 5: been talking to sources within Hama and other resistance organizations

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Speaker 5: about their response to Donald Trump's new ceasefire proposal. We'll

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Speaker 5: get details from him on that.

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Speaker 1: After that, we're going to bring in Maddi Hassen.

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Speaker 4: We've got three guests today.

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Speaker 1: He's going to be in the studio.

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Speaker 5: There's been this bubbling scandal for a very long time

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Speaker 5: where the BBC commissioned an extraordinary documentary on Israeli attacks

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Speaker 5: on the medics and doctors in the medical community in

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Speaker 5: Gaza and has.

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Speaker 1: Been refusing to air it.

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Speaker 5: It finally aired on Channel four after they just said fine,

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Speaker 5: we are not fine.

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Speaker 1: Fine, you can take this somewhere else, we are not

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Speaker 1: running it.

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Speaker 5: Maddy Hassen bought the global rights for it for Zeteo,

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Speaker 5: and so we're going to play a little trailer from that,

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Speaker 5: talk about the scandal, talk about.

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Speaker 1: How how that whole thing came about.

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Speaker 5: We've got an update on Alligator Alcatraz and just a

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Speaker 5: kil Mar Abrigo Garcia as well his case.

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Speaker 1: There's news out of that one.

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Speaker 5: Plus we're going to talk about zorn Mom Donnie's response

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Speaker 5: to Donald Trump saying he's going to arrest him and

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Speaker 5: deport him, and and how it kind of points away

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Speaker 5: for Democrats to be a less awful party. Yeah, at

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Speaker 5: a party that you could actually imagine being excited about.

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Speaker 6: It's just a really interesting topic to be able to

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Speaker 6: talk to you about. After you've written books like on

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Speaker 6: this exact.

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Speaker 1: Topic, it's nice to see it flourishing a little bit.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, So we'll get into that, and then we will

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Speaker 6: cover what happened in the Diddy trial yesterday, where he

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Speaker 6: was acquitted on three chats three counts and found guilty

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Speaker 6: on two of the less serious counts.

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Speaker 4: So a lot to talk about today.

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Speaker 6: Let's go ahead and start with the one big beautiful Bill, which,

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Speaker 6: as we are sitting here right now, is really on

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Speaker 6: the cusp of passage because House Speaker Mike Johnson wrangled

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Speaker 6: his conference.

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Speaker 4: A lot of the Freedom Caucus fiscal hawks, did not

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Speaker 4: want to vote on the bill.

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Speaker 6: They didn't want to vote on the rule, they didn't

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Speaker 6: want to vote on the to open debate on the bill,

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Speaker 6: which is the parlamentary procedure you have to do to

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Speaker 6: ultimately vote on the bill, and they are not happy

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Speaker 6: that they're being forced to come to the table on this.

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Speaker 6: So Mike Johnson and his conference had been doing intense

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Speaker 6: math trying to make sure, like they literally had to

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Speaker 6: wait for one member, Scott Perry, to drive back and

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Speaker 6: forth from the York areas. Ryan points out yesterday for

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Speaker 6: his vote, he thought he had more time to go

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Speaker 6: get a change of clothes because he came in after vacation,

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Speaker 6: and this is happening at like between two and four

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Speaker 6: in the morning.

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Speaker 4: So poor went out for the Capitol Hill Press Corps.

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Speaker 1: Or Nordstrom Rack here in DC. He could have gone too.

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Speaker 4: I was sort of confused about that.

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Speaker 6: Mike Johnson also said that he would have loaned him close,

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Speaker 6: So all kinds of wild stuff going on.

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Speaker 1: That was a story. He had to go home for

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Speaker 1: some other reason.

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Speaker 6: It looked like the bill was actually on track to fail.

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Speaker 6: For a brief moment last late last night, around like

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Speaker 6: ten thirty pm, it looked like Johnson had lost the votes.

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Speaker 6: But after Trump and Johnson were twist arms all night,

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Speaker 6: they now.

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Speaker 4: Have the votes.

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Speaker 5: So Keen Jeffreys gets what's called a golden hour where

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Speaker 5: he can talk endlessly. Yeah, and so I think he's

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Speaker 5: an hour three. It's a real treat for of his

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Speaker 5: speech now. But when he runs out of steam then

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Speaker 5: and maybe he'll just speak for forty years, but at

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Speaker 5: some point he will run out of steam and then

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Speaker 5: they will put this on the floor and they have

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Speaker 5: the votes.

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Speaker 4: He ran out of steam like two years ago to

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Speaker 4: pass it.

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Speaker 1: So should we roll some clips first or yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then bring in Will.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, let's get Will to react to We'll start with

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Speaker 6: this clip of Jim Jordan. So a bunch of members

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Speaker 6: were brought to the White House yesterday where Donald Trump

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Speaker 6: was working to convince them to vote for the bill.

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Speaker 6: They had a lot of reservations on it just twenty

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Speaker 6: four hours ago. So here is Jim Jordan of Ohio

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Speaker 6: on how they got to a passage.

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Speaker 4: I do want to ask you in that context.

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Speaker 7: It is Freedom Caucus members who are very concerned about

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Speaker 7: this bill. I'm old enough to remember when if there

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Speaker 7: was a bill on the floor that added much to

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Speaker 7: our debt and deficit. I cannot imagine you would have

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Speaker 7: been happy about it.

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Speaker 4: In those years.

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Speaker 7: And yet you have been approaching this a little bit differently.

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Speaker 7: What is your message to your colleagues in that group right.

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Speaker 8: Now, Look, we all wishould save more money, but you

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Speaker 8: know this is a good bill, and I tell people

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Speaker 8: all the time, you know it's a good piece of

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Speaker 8: legislation because every single Democrat hates it. And the reason

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Speaker 8: they hate it is because this bill actually empowers Americans.

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Speaker 8: It empowers families, It cuts their taxes, it keeps their

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Speaker 8: taxes low. It says to the hardworking people who are

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Speaker 8: working and getting tips, we're not going to tax those tips.

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Speaker 8: It says the parents, we're going to give you school

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Speaker 8: choice in our tax code. It says the border that's

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Speaker 8: now secure under President Trump, we're going to allocate resources to.

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Speaker 9: Keep it secure.

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Speaker 8: And maybe most importantly, or as importantly, is it says

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Speaker 8: to hard working American families who are paying for all

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Speaker 8: this government. For people who are getting a benefit in

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Speaker 8: the welfare system, if they're able bodied, adun't guess what

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Speaker 8: from now on, they're going to have to work. So

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Speaker 8: I think it's good for all those common sense, fundamental

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Speaker 8: Republican principles. That's why the Democrats don't like it. While

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Speaker 8: it doesn't cut enough spending, I get it, but we

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Speaker 8: got small majorities. This is probably as good as it's

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Speaker 8: going to get. So I'm certainly for this piece of legislation.

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Speaker 6: Okay, So Speaker Mike Johnson also addressed the let's say

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Speaker 6: imperfections from a conservative perspective, in this bill, we can

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Speaker 6: go ahead and roll a two here.

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Speaker 10: We can't make everyone happy, It's impossible.

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Speaker 1: This is a deliberated body. It's a legislative process.

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Speaker 10: By definition, all of us have to give up on

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Speaker 10: our personal preferences. I never to ask anybody to come

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Speaker 10: fromise core principles, but but preferences must be yielded for

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Speaker 10: for the greater good. That's what I think people are

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Speaker 10: recognizing to come to grips with now.

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Speaker 6: Not all Republicans had to have their arms twisted to

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Speaker 6: vote for this bill. Nancy Mace documented her journey. We

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Speaker 6: can go ahead and roll this footage that she posted

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Speaker 6: from South Carolina up to DC. She got caught up

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Speaker 6: in the same travel stuff that Ryan and I got

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Speaker 6: caught up in. But she rented a luxury sprinter van

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Speaker 6: and went to walk house and wah wah and wore

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Speaker 6: pajamas everywhere and posted this wonderful video of her pumping

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Speaker 6: gas and buying buying red bulls so that she could

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Speaker 6: get up in time to.

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Speaker 4: Vote for the bill.

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Speaker 6: And I think Ryan, on that note, this is a

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Speaker 6: good time as any to bring in Will Chamberlain of

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Speaker 6: the Article three project, who is going to talk to

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Speaker 6: us a bit about how the right is seeing passage

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Speaker 6: of this bill. Interpreting passage of this bill. Why so

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Speaker 6: many people, Nancy Mason included, are actually very happy about

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Speaker 6: the bill, unlike the sort of reluctant folks like a

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Speaker 6: Chip Roy. So will first of all, thank you so much.

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Speaker 4: For joining us.

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Speaker 1: Always great to be with you.

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Speaker 6: Now anytime you have like a reconciliation bill. Mike Johnson

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Speaker 6: is absolutely right. Not everybody is going to be happy

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Speaker 6: with every part of the bill. You have to get

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Speaker 6: your whole conference together. That's everyone from Susan Collins to

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Speaker 6: Chip Roy. And that's no easy feat of Obviously, they

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Speaker 6: ended up losing Susan Collins, but kept Murkowski. Needed to

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Speaker 6: keep Murkowski. Jade Vance cast the tie breaking vote. So

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Speaker 6: tell us, basically, give us your sort of big take

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Speaker 6: on why passage of this bill that will now be

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Speaker 6: on Donald Trump's desk by that fourth of July deadline.

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Speaker 4: Why you see that as a big win?

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Speaker 11: I guess you can fit it into two big buckets,

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Speaker 11: both of which are core parts of Trump's agenda, immigration

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Speaker 11: and tax policy. So on the immigration side, I mean

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Speaker 11: this is a twenty times increase in total funding for

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Speaker 11: immigration enforcement ten to twenty times, massively increasing the budget,

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Speaker 11: device massively spending forty five billion dollars to build the wall,

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Speaker 11: spending another forty five billion on detention space. I mean,

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Speaker 11: I remember having knock down, drag out fights over getting

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Speaker 11: four billion dollars to build the wall via national emergency funding.

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Speaker 11: In the first term, Congress wouldn't even breathe on it,

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Speaker 11: and now we're going to get ten times that to

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Speaker 11: solve what is has been a major priority of the

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Speaker 11: Magna movement since its inception, massive increased certain destension. All

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Speaker 11: this money is necessary because it's it's very hard to

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Speaker 11: engage in mass deportation. It turns out that once people

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Speaker 11: are in the country, that's a logistically challenging thing or

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Speaker 11: requires a lot of personnel, So you need the money

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Speaker 11: for it. To say you're for mass deportation and not

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Speaker 11: for the money necessary to do it is ridiculous. Don't

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Speaker 11: to change the law logistically requires sixty votes in the Senate,

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Speaker 11: but to fund enforcement of existing law requires fifty. So

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Speaker 11: it's a huge win on the immigration front, which we

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Speaker 11: see is the most central issue in our politics. And

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Speaker 11: I think the second big bucket would be tax policy.

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Speaker 11: No tax on tips and no tax on overtime is

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Speaker 11: a real thing, and this reinstates, reaffirms the twenty seventeen

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Speaker 11: Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. In the absence of this,

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Speaker 11: you'd have a massive taxi for everybody. Instead, you're having

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Speaker 11: massive tax cuts, keeping the massive tax cuts from twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 11: and then additionally adding some very pro working, pro working

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Speaker 11: class tax reform in terms of no tax and tips

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Speaker 11: and no tax on overtime, and to the extent there

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Speaker 11: are decreases and benefits related to work eligibility. Well, it

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Speaker 11: seems kind of obvious that if you're also massively incentivizing

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Speaker 11: work by making sure that people get more take home

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Speaker 11: pay from their work, you're you're sort of creating the

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Speaker 11: incentive structure that I think kind of pro working class

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Speaker 11: Republicans want, which is, we want work people who are

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Speaker 11: going out there and working to get rewarded. We just

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Speaker 11: don't want It's like Gevan's talked a lot about this

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Speaker 11: in his book. He thought, you need to reward the

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Speaker 11: working class for going to work, and but not rewards

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Speaker 11: staying at home doing nothing.

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Speaker 5: And so that that part I understand, and so help

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Speaker 5: help me out for the parts that I don't understand,

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Speaker 5: because it makes sense to me that you guys would

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Speaker 5: do like throw billions, and I think the amount of money,

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Speaker 5: I don't even know how you're gonna be able to

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Speaker 5: spend it. But good lord, it's it's like, you know,

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Speaker 5: it's like somebody said, it's more than the Marines. It's

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Speaker 5: like it's like the amount of money going towards mass

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Speaker 5: deportation is absolutely stunning. But it goes into the category

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Speaker 5: of something that I disagree with, but I understand that

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Speaker 5: this is a thing that you guys have wanted like.

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Speaker 1: That, So I get that.

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Speaker 5: On the work encouraging, you know, making making work pay more,

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Speaker 5: encouraging people to work, that makes sense. What I don't

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Speaker 5: the parts that I don't understand, and extending the Trump

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Speaker 5: tax cuts. He did the tax cuts, so obviously he's

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Speaker 5: going to send them Like that makes sense. Part I

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Speaker 5: don't understand. So let's take the like the explosion of

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Speaker 5: the estate tax, Like basically, you're spending something like five

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Speaker 5: hundred billion to a trillion dollars in this bill to

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Speaker 5: make it so the threshold for people who pay the

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Speaker 5: estate tax is going from almost nobody but still raising

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Speaker 5: you know, a significant amount.

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Speaker 1: Of money half a billion, you know, have five hundred.

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Speaker 5: Billion to a trillion Dollars's a lot of money that

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Speaker 5: you know, wealthy people were paying in the estate tax.

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Speaker 5: It's not going to go away like so, and that

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Speaker 5: money is coming out of say extending the tax no

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Speaker 5: tax on tips, and no tax on overtime, because those

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Speaker 5: things expire pretty quickly. You could tighten the estate tax

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Speaker 5: and say, you know what the threshold for how much

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Speaker 5: wealth you can pass down without paying tax, it's.

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Speaker 1: Going to go down a little bit.

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Speaker 5: We're going to say the first two million dollars that

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Speaker 5: you want to give to your children is tax free.

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Speaker 5: It's a huge amount of money. That's that's an enormous

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Speaker 5: windfall for somebody to get. And then we're going to

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Speaker 5: take the tax revenue from that. We're going to permanently

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Speaker 5: extend all these tax these tax breaks for the working class,

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Speaker 5: tax on tips, overtime, et cetera. Instead they blow out

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Speaker 5: the estate tax, tons of money for Bill Gates's kids,

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Speaker 5: but they make the working class part tight like like

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Speaker 5: what why do that?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 11: I mean, from a political perspective, I assume that was

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Speaker 11: necessary to get some votes in the Senate. Right, that's

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Speaker 11: my default assumption because that's not the core the core

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Speaker 11: policy drive for Trump and the Trump movement is the

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Speaker 11: immigration and the working class, tax hands and so. But

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Speaker 11: that the MAGA movement is not completely reflected in the

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Speaker 11: Senate as we've seen for the last decade. So I

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Speaker 11: think if you're asking from the political perspective, why are

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Speaker 11: these things that seem intension with the court, Trump policy

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Speaker 11: priorities and the bill, It's like, well, we have a

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Speaker 11: three seat majority in the Senate and effectively a two

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Speaker 11: or three seat majority in thats so you know, we

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Speaker 11: we have to give a little again, a.

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Speaker 1: Little got it? What about the what about the energy part?

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Speaker 5: Like I understand that Republicans in general kind of just

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Speaker 5: think clean energy is icky, like that there's it's a

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Speaker 5: problematic for reasons. But over the last year, like two

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Speaker 5: thirds of new energy production was clean energy, was batteries, wind, solar,

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Speaker 5: And we need as a country to continue the expansion

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Speaker 5: of the supply of energy if we're going to.

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Speaker 1: Compete against China.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, whether it's class argument and also common sense like

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Speaker 5: you need energy to power your growing economy, whether it's

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Speaker 5: cleaner dirty, why go after the the energy industry.

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Speaker 1: This way.

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Speaker 5: It's it's because it goes beyond taking substance away. You know,

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Speaker 5: it adds taxes, it adds regulatory it adds all of

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Speaker 5: these obstacles that make it so that clean energy manufacturing

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Speaker 5: and energy manufacturing is made more difficult by this bill.

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Speaker 5: So that's that's that's one of the parts from like.

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Speaker 1: Who's for this?

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Speaker 5: Because like big tech needs energy, consumers need energy, they

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Speaker 5: don't want to pay more, like who's the constituency and

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Speaker 5: what are the politics that drove that?

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Speaker 1: And then well then we can rematicate because I know

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Speaker 1: you got to go pretty soon. So I'm not I'm

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Speaker 1: not a huge expert on energy policy.

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Speaker 11: I'll be frank, but I've you know, there's a guy

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Speaker 11: Alex Epstein who had some good posts on this yesterday.

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Speaker 11: My understanding is that it's it's it's a kind of

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Speaker 11: technocratic argument about how what you have to do in

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Speaker 11: order to ensure that your project gets subsidized and stay subsidized,

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Speaker 11: like how quickly it gets on the grid. And if

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Speaker 11: I recall his books correctly, like don't don't hold me

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Speaker 11: to this, somebody will have to go, you know, check

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Speaker 11: outfore Care but his his basic argument was that it's

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Speaker 11: you know, the subs The question is like how quickly

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Speaker 11: does your solar thing have to be upperal in order

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Speaker 11: for you to get the subsidy, And they were trying

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Speaker 11: to reduce that time to ensure that these projects actually

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Speaker 11: were getting done and adding to the grid. And the

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Speaker 11: problem was if you don't have that limit, you get

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Speaker 11: kind of what he described as spamming of the grid,

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Speaker 11: where people are just building a lot of random energy

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Speaker 11: plants to get the subsidy without any you know, real

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Speaker 11: assessment of the fact that they'll actually be online in

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Speaker 11: a reasonable period of time. So that was one thing

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Speaker 11: I think. So that's that's one point, but I think

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Speaker 11: in general, I mean there's a lot of long term

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Speaker 11: standing and injections to solar and when they're not a

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Speaker 11: good reliable basis on which to build your grid. And

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Speaker 11: i mean Spain had you know, massive outages as a result.

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Speaker 11: Wind wind has all sorts of problems. These are not

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Speaker 11: like the grid especially, I mean in a lot of

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Speaker 11: places is ultimately sustained by fossil fuels, and that's not

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Speaker 11: a bad thing. We're going to i mean, we're going

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Speaker 11: to have more technology tune at more fossil fields. I

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Speaker 11: think that, and we have tons of them sitting underneath Colorado.

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Speaker 11: So I think that, you know, I don't think this

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Speaker 11: is but I guess the meta point would be this

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Speaker 11: isn't a core area of concern for the Trump based

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Speaker 11: your way, uh And so whether or not again one

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Speaker 11: of these questions about, you know, people looking for places

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Speaker 11: to cut spending. I think that, and you know, green

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Speaker 11: energy subsidies would be one of them.

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Speaker 5: And the irony is that Democrats and we're critical of

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Speaker 5: this the time it put most of the subsidies into

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Speaker 5: red states, thinking, you know, because and and you know

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Speaker 5: North Carolina and Texas in particularly was also Kansas and

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Speaker 5: Iowa and Maine have built up, you know, major kind

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Speaker 5: of clean energy industries that we're gonna, you know, are

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Speaker 5: gonna are gonna get hit.

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Speaker 4: Lisa Murkowski was ye, fighting hard.

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Speaker 5: And so then the then Medicaid yesterday, Trump has a

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Speaker 5: bunch of Republicans over at the White House and he's

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Speaker 5: he's waxing to them about you know, how you keep

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Speaker 5: your seats, and he says, you know, the way not

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Speaker 5: to lose elections is he repeats his mantra that he's

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Speaker 5: said so often over the last eight years, don't mess

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Speaker 5: with don't touch Medicaid, Medicare and sold security. And one

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Speaker 5: of the members in the room is like, bro, we're

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Speaker 5: touching medical cat in this bill, not just touching it,

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Speaker 5: torching it, like massive, massive cuts. I guess, So why like,

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Speaker 5: why do that?

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Speaker 11: Well, I mean, this is MI understanding of the Medicaid changes,

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Speaker 11: or that it's it's a work requirement. If you're able

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Speaker 11: body between the ages of eighteen and sixty five, you

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Speaker 11: need to be working twenty hours a week to get Medicaid,

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Speaker 11: which is I think. And there are exceptions obviously if

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Speaker 11: you're like caring for minor children or something like that,

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Speaker 11: or you're disabled obviously, but I think as a default

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Speaker 11: policy idea that sounds right to me. I don't think that, yeah,

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Speaker 11: able bodied, you know, able body people should be getting

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Speaker 11: free health insurance from the state. That seems wrong to

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Speaker 11: me if they're not. You know, that's that's about what

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Speaker 11: we don't have such life medicine.

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Speaker 5: Right, That's easy to say, but it goes so much

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Speaker 5: further beyond that. Basically, what it does is it readjusts

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Speaker 5: the various formulas so that it's going to massively reduce

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Speaker 5: the amount of fun that is going to go to states,

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Speaker 5: and it's and also to food stamps to snap and

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Speaker 5: it's going to increase the amount that states have to

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Speaker 5: put in. And interestingly, because Republicans resisted the medicaid expansion

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Speaker 5: in Obamacare, which John Roberts in the Supreme Court allowed

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Speaker 5: them to do. As you I'm sure you remember, there

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Speaker 5: were so many movements in red states to push for

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Speaker 5: the medicaid expansion that a bunch of those states had

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Speaker 5: to do it through constitutional amendments done by referendum. So

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Speaker 5: a lot of these red states are now constitutionally obligated

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Speaker 5: to put a particular amount of their budget into medicaid.

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Speaker 5: And now they're going to get a lot less from

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Speaker 5: the federal government. And it's and hospitals are warning that,

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Speaker 5: you know, they're going to go bankrupt in rural America.

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Speaker 1: Why do it wasn't and Holly talked a lot about this.

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Speaker 5: This is not just you know, some you know Marxist

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Speaker 5: on this program talking about it.

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Speaker 1: Why wasn't that a bigger concern?

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Speaker 5: The closure of rural hospitals and the throwing off of

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Speaker 5: seventeen million people of medicaid.

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Speaker 1: Many of them in rural America. That feels like a

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Speaker 1: MAGI issue.

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Speaker 5: And this is one of the places where I'm back

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Speaker 5: in the phrase place of just not understanding and does

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Speaker 5: it go back to this is a coalition of the

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Speaker 5: old Republican Party that I very much do understand that

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Speaker 5: wanted to cut Medicaid for decades and they just won.

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Speaker 11: I mean, I think again, the throwing off of people

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Speaker 11: in Medicaid, it's I mean, it's not just randomly throwing

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Speaker 11: people off. It's literally it's imposing a work requirement. And

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Speaker 11: I think even the MAGA base is pro work requirements.

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Speaker 11: I think people really should go back and read Jadie

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Speaker 11: Vance's book on Hillbiliology, Right, it's actually laid out there.

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Speaker 11: There's just this really clear difference. You know, on the

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Speaker 11: one hand, we want, we don't want to get rid

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Speaker 11: of Social Security, Medicare, but on the other hand, there

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Speaker 11: is this deep anger from working class Americans towards towards idlers,

441
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 11: towards people in their similar class not working, not having

442
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 11: a job, and collecting government benefits. So I think it

443
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,640
Speaker 11: just basically the policy fits.

444
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:12,160
Speaker 1: That, as I think the message, I think the messaging

445
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,719
Speaker 1: fits that. Yeah, that's right. Well, I think it's kind

446
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:15,720
Speaker 1: of a myth that there's a.

447
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,680
Speaker 11: Well, then the knocking effects of the policy on rural

448
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 11: hospital I mean, people are these are projections. I'm sure

449
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 11: in the world where rural hospitals are actually in real

450
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,439
Speaker 11: trouble and there's like real talk of closures, then the

451
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,119
Speaker 11: policy will change. Right, there's certain you know, this is

452
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 11: a general theme. You can actually use this as call

453
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,880
Speaker 11: this plan trusting. Right, there's a general theme to how

454
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,679
Speaker 11: things work. This was appened in tariffs too, like you

455
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,920
Speaker 11: name it. People are like, well, these catastrophic impacts for

456
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 11: a result. I'm like, well, no, there are competent people

457
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 11: running our government. They're component people running state governments. Before

458
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 11: the catastrophe hits, things will change if you are right

459
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 11: that the catastrophe is going to hurt. So I don't

460
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 11: I start. I don't know that you know that these

461
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:54,719
Speaker 11: hospitals will close. I know people are arguing that they

462
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 11: might if there really is a serious problem there. I

463
00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,360
Speaker 11: assume it will get fixed when that happens.

464
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 5: So it's like that, so that I understand, it's like,

465
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,679
Speaker 5: basically we trust Trump that he's that he's going to

466
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 5: do do good by us. I guess last point on

467
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 5: the deficit, like you know that my whole life being

468
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 5: told that it's the thing that's going to like ruin America.

469
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 5: And it's like, oh, how about how about we add

470
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 5: a couple more trillion to it? And yeah, yeah, yeah,

471
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,439
Speaker 5: well one minute on that one, because I know you

472
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:22,920
Speaker 5: got to run.

473
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 11: The deficit is to Republicans is global warming is to

474
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 11: Democrats the impending crisis that you know, always always will

475
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 11: happen in the next year or two and then never does.

476
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 11: I mean, I think that I've come to the conclusion

477
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 11: that I mean, the debt as a problem is is

478
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 11: not a problem in the way that you know, the

479
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 11: sort of Freedom Caucus people catastrophize it. It's just a

480
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 11: it's just a long term inflation problem, is the way

481
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:46,239
Speaker 11: I think about it.

482
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,479
Speaker 5: That's basically how the someone the left think about it too.

483
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 1: Now.

484
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 11: Yeah, and and you know, ultimately did was Trump getting

485
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 11: people to chant, you know, reduce the deficit. No, I mean,

486
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 11: there's a one of the things that the Freedom Caucus

487
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 11: loves to do is they and this is not limited

488
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 11: to them, is pretending that their policy is the ultimate

489
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,880
Speaker 11: Trump agenda. And it's like, no, actually, that's not what

490
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 11: the Trump vote base wanted. That's you know, the deficit

491
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 11: is like tenth on the list or fifteenth on the

492
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 11: list of concerns, and the ones that are addressed in

493
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 11: this bill are at number one and two.

494
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 4: That's a good point.

495
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 5: Well, we're gonna let you go, and then Emily and

496
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 5: I have a couple more things to go through.

497
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: So helpful, Will, thanks thanks a lot.

498
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 9: All right, absolutely, thank you.

499
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 1: Okay, So that was Will Chamberlain.

500
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 5: I guess I sort of see it from their perspective

501
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:31,439
Speaker 5: a little bit more.

502
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 1: They just really trust Trump.

503
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 5: Like, and I'm not saying that's rational, but I okay,

504
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 5: you trust Trump like the idea that you've got a

505
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 5: bunch of people that are saying, like, hey, and there

506
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 5: have been a ton of Royal hospital closures already, and

507
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,120
Speaker 5: you've got people saying, if you do this Medicaid provider tax,

508
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,640
Speaker 5: you kick these other people off Medicaid, these.

509
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 1: Hospitals are going to close. And the counter is I

510
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: trust Trump.

511
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 12: Well.

512
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 6: But this is also an interesting point that, based on

513
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 6: what Will just said, if you don't think there's a

514
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 6: problem with spending overall, that this is or at least

515
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 6: that it's not an urgent pressing problem.

516
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 4: Well, that's what I was just going to say.

517
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, then why make these sort of you just tweaks

518
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 6: to a program that Maga, as Steve Bannon has said,

519
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 6: MAGA loves Medicaid, MAGA is on Medicaid. Why do that

520
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 6: to sell tax cuts that will benefit everyone across the

521
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 6: entire I mean that these taxes will benefit everyone across

522
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 6: the entire entire spectrum in the short term, disproportionately will

523
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 6: benefit wealthy people. You could have, as people like Botch

524
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 6: Younger Stargun have said, just not have reauthorized the top

525
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 6: rate cuts.

526
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 4: You could just let those expire.

527
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 6: But if you don't think that there's an urgent debt

528
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 6: deficit problem, why are you worrying about paying for Why

529
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 6: are you worrying about offsetting the tax cuts at all?

530
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 4: You don't have to.

531
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess it goes back to the Republican Party

532
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 5: still being somewhat controlled by or at least having to

533
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 5: deal with It's it's like one percent.

534
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 4: I'm all for smart work requirements.

535
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 6: The politics of this make like just the politics of

536
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 6: this make absolutely no sense of packaging them together with

537
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 6: a tax cut for the riche.

538
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think there's an interesting element so we'll

539
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 5: get to Tim Burchett here in the We Trust Trump

540
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 5: and also in the We do not trust Democrats and

541
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 5: the media, that that kind of polarized people into just

542
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 5: supporting the thing. And I think we watched it happen

543
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 5: in real time on CNN with Burchette on the air. Well,

544
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 5: you had Jim Jordan, who we played previously in this block,

545
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 5: saying this bill is great because all the Democrats hate it. Like,

546
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 5: so that's right there, that's just explicitly polarization, like the

547
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 5: Democrats don't like it, therefore it must be good. Burchette

548
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 5: went on Brianna Quilar's program on CNN and was an

549
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,880
Speaker 5: undecided vote and Trump had brought him and some other

550
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 5: undecideds into the White House trying to push them into

551
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 5: supporting the bill, and he gets then he gets into

552
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 5: a fight with Brianna Quilar over whether or not the

553
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 5: CBO should be trusted, and she's doing a.

554
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: Kind of haha, gotcha.

555
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 5: You pushed forward a resolution that said all CBO estimates

556
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 5: should be read on the House floor, and now you're

557
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 5: saying that CBO estimates can't be trusted on this And

558
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 5: his argument is, yeah, CBO is the only game in

559
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 5: town and also that resolution didn't pass. But I think

560
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 5: the CBO is wrong on this. And then they go

561
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 5: back and forth for a while on whether or not

562
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 5: he's a hypocrite, and by the end of the interview

563
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,719
Speaker 5: he's hardcore defending the bill. But he went from on

564
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 5: the fence, do you know what, this bill's going to

565
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 5: save the American Republic?

566
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 6: And this is echoes the Jim Jordan point, and also

567
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 6: that he made in the clip we rolled earlier that

568
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 6: and Trump was pitching it this way.

569
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 5: The left hates this left hates his built that's why

570
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 5: it take you and so we're going to vote yes

571
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 5: on this thing.

572
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: That's actually, I think genuinely self desisive.

573
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 4: The left loves this bill.

574
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 6: By the way, they're salivating over this bill because they're

575
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 6: able to talk about entirely yeah.

576
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 5: Democrature, so like they're salivating like drying shots. He's like,

577
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 5: I really hope the bill doesn't pass, but if it does,

578
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 5: we are going to win the Senate.

579
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 1: Let's let's say it doesn't. So anyway, yeah, let's roll

580
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: purch it.

581
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 13: What did the President say to you that made you

582
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 13: feel maybe closer to voting?

583
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 14: Yes, he talked about the economic output that we would

584
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 14: have that was not in the CBO scores, and and

585
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 14: along those lines, he talked about other things that I'm

586
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 14: I'm not going to share but because it was in privacy.

587
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 14: But I think there's a lot of things that probably

588
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 14: be revealed when this is passed, and I think America

589
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 14: will will embrace it further. I think again, once you

590
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 14: you do some things like straightening up dedicated Medicare and

591
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 14: you dispute a lot of the lives that are in

592
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 14: the media about people be getting kicked off, I think

593
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 14: America understands what we're up against in this.

594
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 6: Well.

595
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 13: The CBO, which you put so much trust in four

596
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 13: years and years that you passed a resolution wanting estimates

597
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 13: read before bills, is very clear about how many people

598
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 13: are going to be kicked off of healthcare until you

599
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 13: were against them.

600
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 14: No, ma'am, No, ma'am, no, ma'am. Listen, listen if you

601
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 14: want to. If you want to do the editorial, just

602
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 14: go ahead. And you don't need me on here, but

603
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 14: the sea facts, sir, I wouldn't have to. I would

604
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 14: like to see what the economic economic output of every bill.

605
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 4: You as a.

606
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 14: Taxpayer shoul want that too, And the CBO is the

607
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 14: only organization we have. If I could allow a private

608
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 14: accounting firm to do it, I would much rather that happen.

609
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 14: But the reality is it would have to be the CBO.

610
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 14: And what do you have against knowing how much each

611
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 14: bill is spent? Why is the media posed to that?

612
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 14: Why do you all on the left always fight every

613
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 14: chance in America knowing what's going on. The problem we y'

614
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 14: all have with this bill, man, is that it gets

615
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 14: government out of our way and let's Americans make some

616
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 14: decisions and maybe hard working Americans would have a better

617
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 14: choice and a mayor shot at life in this country

618
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 14: without you all just telling us how bad things are

619
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 14: going and trying to construct and as you're doing with me,

620
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 14: trying to trying to dictate what I've said.

621
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he goes on from there.

622
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 5: Just the rest of the interview just sings the praises

623
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 5: of the bill, and now he's for it. That clip,

624
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 5: to me is like in the broader interview is like

625
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 5: the story of our politics. It's like the issue itself

626
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 5: gets lost in the fact that we hate each other.

627
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: And so then bur just like you know what, she sucks,

628
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: I'm voting for this, I'm.

629
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 4: Going to yell at by CNN, so.

630
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: I'm voting for this. It's like that don't follow that train.

631
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 6: But I would also I would also notice that just

632
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 6: note that will started with immigration enforcement. And that's how

633
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 6: Stephen Miller's been selling this bill as the most important

634
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 6: bill for like the future of Western civilization. Is that

635
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 6: they believe if you don't do their definition of mass deportation,

636
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 6: which is different than I think the public said finishing

637
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 6: a mass deportation, but literally like deporting almost everybody, not

638
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 6: just the worst of the worst, but almost everybody for

639
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 6: assimilation and labor force reasons, then you don't have a

640
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 6: country anymore. So from that perspective, they would probably swallow

641
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 6: a lot of bad policy to pass a reconciliation bill

642
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 6: with massive immigration enforcement increase.

643
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,719
Speaker 5: Just do your crackdown then, Like I don't see why

644
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 5: they had to lump it all in, but whatever, I

645
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 5: didn't win. Up next, Jeremy Scayhill update US on his

646
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 5: reporting on the latest and the ceasefire negotiations. Ceasefire negotiations

647
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 5: are at an advanced stage. Jeremy Scahill, my colleague at

648
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 5: drop Site News, joins US now to talk about his

649
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 5: reporting on what we know about where we stand.

650
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: Jeremy, thanks so much for being here today.

651
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 9: Good to be with you, guys.

652
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: So walk us through where we are now.

653
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 5: Donald Trump several days ago announced that he had gotten

654
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 5: Israeli agreement on some version of a ceasefire.

655
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: There was conspicuous.

656
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 5: Silence for a while from the Israelis, but then a

657
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 5: media campaign started rolling out about what was in this agreement.

658
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 5: And my understanding though, is that only recently did Hamas

659
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 5: even receive a proposal.

660
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: So what is the current situation?

661
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 9: I mean, Trump is riding really high on what he

662
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 9: perceives to be an ultra successful military campaign against Iran,

663
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 9: and you know, he's had his own series of kerfuffles

664
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 9: in Washington over how much damage was done to Iran's

665
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 9: nuclear program, But clearly he feels empowered now to try

666
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 9: to keep the ball rolling with his own agenda in

667
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 9: the Middle East. And what we've seen happen throughout the

668
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 9: Trump administration is, on the one hand, Trump messages that

669
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 9: he wants all these wars to be brought to an end.

670
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 9: On the other hand, he's really fully empowered net Nyahu

671
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 9: to continue and intensify the war and actually to expand it,

672
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 9: not just in Lebanon with repeated violation of the ceasefire,

673
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 9: but also these twelve days of intense Israeli bombing of

674
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 9: Iran that then at the end became a joint US

675
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 9: Israeli bombing operation. But you know, setting aside any analysis

676
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 9: we could do about what really was at play there,

677
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 9: Trump really, i think, sees that he has momentum. And

678
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 9: so what happened is that earlier this week, Ron Dermer,

679
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 9: who is Netanyahu's point person and really kind of like

680
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 9: his Roger Stone of sorts, you know, his political hitman,

681
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 9: he arrives in Washington, d C. For talks with a

682
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 9: series of Trump administration officials, and what I'm told by

683
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 9: sources is basically they concocted what they felt would be

684
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 9: kind of the final ultimatum that would be delivered to

685
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 9: Hamas by regional mediators from Egypt and Katar, saying, this

686
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 9: is your last chance to make a ceasefire deal. You

687
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 9: saw the kind of power that we unleashed in Iran.

688
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 9: Now is your time to do it. There's been a

689
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 9: lot of reporting over the past couple of days in

690
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 9: the Hebrew language press the Arabic language press included as

691
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 9: well as in the American press about what the terms

692
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 9: of this proposal being put in front of Hamas are.

693
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 9: I'm told though, by sources on the negotiating team that

694
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 9: despite this flurry of media reports about what the terms are,

695
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 9: Hamas was not actually given any document until late last night.

696
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 9: In fact, they haven't really been able to do full

697
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 9: consultations within HAMAS or the other resistance factions. I've spoken

698
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 9: this morning to a source who's close to the negotiators

699
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 9: that actually has that document in hand, and in general,

700
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 9: what I would say is this, It is almost identical

701
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 9: in most ways to the previous ultimatum that Steve Whitkoff,

702
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 9: Trump's Special envoy, delivered back in May. It does not

703
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 9: contain any clear guarantees that Israel will not resume the

704
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 9: military assault on Gaza after an initial sixty day period.

705
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 9: It has very vague language about how humanitarian aid is

706
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 9: going to come into Gaza. It doesn't say anything about

707
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,959
Speaker 9: the fate of the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, this aid scam

708
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 9: where Palestinians being gunned down every day. It does mention

709
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 9: that the United Nations and the Red Crescent are again

710
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 9: going to be involved with the distribution of aid, but

711
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 9: there aren't any clear definitions. Perhaps the two most significant

712
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 9: changes or amendments I guess that you could say in

713
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 9: some way inch the position more toward what Hamas wanted

714
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 9: is that they've sharpened some of the language about President

715
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 9: Donald Trump. There's thirteen points in this agreement. In point

716
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 9: one and point thirteen, Trump is mentioned by name, and

717
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 9: what they're saying is that Trump is committed to an

718
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 9: actual end to the war, and as long as negotiations

719
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 9: are committed are conducted in good faith, that he wants

720
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 9: to see this two month window of a temporary truce

721
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 9: continue on toward a resolution of the war. Hamasto had

722
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,439
Speaker 9: wanted much clearer language, and they wanted Trump to guarantee

723
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 9: that he would prevent Israel from resuming its military assault

724
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 9: on Gaza as long as the negotiations were continuing. That

725
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 9: language is not in this document. On a technical level,

726
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 9: the most significant change is that the Israelis back in

727
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 9: May wanted to have ten living captives Israelis held in

728
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 9: Gaza released within the first week of any ceasefire deal

729
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 9: sixty day deal. Halmas looked at that and said, then

730
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 9: it's just going to be a one week deal because

731
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 9: after the Israelis are freed, Nennahuo's just going to resume

732
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 9: the genocide. So it's not a huge change. But what

733
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,439
Speaker 9: we're looking at now is a formula that says eight

734
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 9: Israelis would be released within that first week. I believe

735
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 9: it's on day five, and then the other two living

736
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 9: Israelis would be released on day fifty. You would also

737
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 9: have the bodies of eighteen Israelis who are deceased but

738
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 9: still in captivity in Gaza staggered out over the course

739
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 9: of those two months. What is not mentioned in the

740
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,240
Speaker 9: document is how many of the more than ten thousand

741
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 9: Palestinians held in detention camps and prisons in Israel are

742
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,399
Speaker 9: going to be released. That's unusual. In other agreements, there

743
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 9: has been some formula cited for how many Palestinian captives

744
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 9: are going to be released. The langue on this is

745
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 9: very vague, while there is not. Again, Ryan, you and

746
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 9: I have talked about this on this show before Hamas

747
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 9: has offered to relinquish governing authority of Gaza. They put

748
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 9: it in writing. It was in their draft that we

749
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 9: talked about on this show a couple of months ago.

750
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 9: It is not in the actual text of this agreement,

751
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 9: and you know, Israel in the United States, for whatever reasons,

752
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,879
Speaker 9: have taken that term out every time Hamas has has

753
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 9: put it forward. But I was told last night by

754
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,839
Speaker 9: a senior Hamas official that the mediators have made clear

755
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 9: to Hamas that that is a condition that Israel and

756
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 9: the United States are going to insist on. And what

757
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 9: is unclear is who takes power if Hamas does relinquish

758
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 9: its authority. It's not just a resistance movement, it's a government.

759
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 9: So a lot of questions up in the air. And

760
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 9: the final thing I'll say on this is that while Hamas,

761
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 9: I think Hamas is very seriously considering taking this deal,

762
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 9: even though they don't think it's a good deal, They're

763
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 9: under a lot of pressure. These guys, the negotiators, all

764
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 9: have family members that have been killed. People are suffering

765
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 9: immensely in Gaza, and there is unprecedented pressure against Hamas

766
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 9: right now, not in a hostile way, but in a

767
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 9: desperate way. Please make a deal. So I'm told that

768
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 9: they're giving very serious consideration to it. The question is

769
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 9: if they're going to be able to get some amendments

770
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 9: to this language. Last time this happened Hamas came through

771
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,439
Speaker 9: and put a whole new proposal on the table. I'm

772
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,720
Speaker 9: told that they're looking now at a more surgical approach

773
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 9: where they're going to zero in on what they've defined

774
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 9: as their red lines. They really don't want Israel to

775
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 9: be able to resume the genocide, and they want a

776
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 9: full Israeli withdrawal. What is not in this document is

777
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,720
Speaker 9: anything about the Philadelphi Corridor, which is the very crucial

778
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 9: part of Gaza because it represents in the south of Gaza.

779
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 9: It represents the only gateway to a world beyond Israeli

780
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 9: controls for Jalestedians. It's on the Egyptian border. We reported

781
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 9: some days ago Ryan that mediators last week told Hamas

782
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 9: that they may have to be willing to concede the

783
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 9: timeline for an Israeli withdrawal from the Philadelphi Corridor. So

784
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 9: I think what we're seeing here, just to sum it up,

785
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 9: is it's basically the same ultimatum that was put on

786
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 9: the table, with a few amendments that seem aimed at

787
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 9: trying to give Hamas something. Hamas is very clear eyed

788
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 9: about it. A senior official told me last night that

789
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 9: Trump is a crucial part of what he called Israel's

790
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 9: deception operation. Even though they say that this is a deception,

791
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 9: they're wide eyed about it. They understand what the stakes are.

792
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 9: And so I think we're going to see some really

793
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 9: intense attempts at negotiation. I get the sense that Hamas

794
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 9: very much wants to make a deal.

795
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 6: And it was announced just a couple of days ago

796
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 6: that Netsa Nyahu will be at the White House on

797
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 6: Monday Jeremy, which seems to signal confidence from the Trump

798
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 6: administration that something's coming. What does the timeline look like

799
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 6: and what did you make of that announcement?

800
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, you know, as often happens with Netnahho,

801
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 9: he sort of projects one message in English and another

802
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 9: message in Hebrew. Netnyahu has been totally unhinged, belligerent in

803
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 9: his Hebrew language remarks over the past twenty four to

804
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 9: forty eight hours, where he's saying, we're not going to

805
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 9: stop the war until Hamas is totally eradicated. We're going

806
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 9: to kill everyone with a gun. We're not going to

807
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 9: have Hamasa stan anymore. On the other hand, you know

808
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 9: what we're we're hearing is that Trump really wants to

809
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 9: kind of put on a show with this, I think

810
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 9: he wants to make a big announcement when net Nyah

811
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 9: who is in town. Also, we can report based on

812
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 9: Israeli media accounts from well connected journalists that there is

813
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 9: talk again of another side letter, a secret side letter

814
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 9: that Trump apparently has told the Israelis he will give

815
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 9: them saying that they can resume the war in Gaza

816
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 9: if Jimas does not leave power and disarm. So, you know,

817
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 9: it's sort of groundhog Day again. I think that, you know,

818
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 9: with Netnyah who coming to Wahington, Trump wants to put

819
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 9: on a big show. He wants to make a big announcement.

820
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 9: He wants to sort of portray himself, you know, in

821
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 9: a way that's going to go down in archival reels

822
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 9: that are going to be shown, you know, for decades

823
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 9: to come. He may get that moment. The real question

824
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 9: is is Trump serious about ending this war? Because if

825
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 9: he is, he can put net Nyahu in a corner.

826
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 9: The Israelis don't seem to think Trump is going to

827
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 9: do that. I think Netanyahu feels like this is sort

828
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 9: of his own victory tour of sorts. So we'll see

829
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 9: what happens.

830
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 5: So to your point about hamas being under significant pressure.

831
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 5: Our colleague Abu Baker Abed had posted yesterday and we

832
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 5: could put this up maybe in post. He said, growing

833
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 5: in pressuring calls among Gosins to accept the Katari proposal

834
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 5: for a seize fire, that people are desperate beyond words

835
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 5: for a rest. Sixty days can offer a huge source

836
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 5: of relief and respite from the ongoing holocaust.

837
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: It's better than nothing. I hope it will happen.

838
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 5: I think it's a good representation of the desperation at

839
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 5: play here, despite the fact that Abu Baker and everybody

840
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 5: else understands that it could be just fifty or sixty days,

841
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 5: and then he resumes it again, Like how confident? Like

842
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 5: how what's the confidence level among people that actually, yeah,

843
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 5: that okay, we'll take it because it's fifty days of

844
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 5: peace or even let's say sixty days of peace. But like,

845
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 5: how certain are people that Nenyahu will actually just use

846
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 5: that side letter and go right back into war, yet

847
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 5: are considering it anyway?

848
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 9: I mean, I think a lot of this also boils

849
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 9: down to Donald Trump's relationships with leaders in the Arab world.

850
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 9: You know, clearly Katar, Egypt others want this to be

851
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 9: brought to an end. They haven't, you know, ever raised

852
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 9: the prospect of using military force to end it. But

853
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 9: it's quite clear. You know that Trump has deepening relationships

854
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 9: with Saudi Arabia. He wants to push forward with his

855
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 9: so called Abraham Accords and get potentially Syria or Lebanon

856
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 9: to join on. Saudi Arabia would be the big prize,

857
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 9: So you know, there is some motivation for Trump to

858
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 9: try to make this thing stick. But at the end

859
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 9: of the day, you know, I spoke to a source

860
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 9: close to the negotiations right before I spoke to you guys,

861
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 9: and what he's saying is, look, they realized that after

862
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 9: thirty days or sixty days, the Israelis could resume this genocide.

863
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 9: But from their perspective, they still would have cards. They

864
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 9: would have ten living Israeli captives, they would have about

865
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 9: a dozen or so bodies of deceased Israelis. They don't

866
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 9: feel like they would have depleted everything they have, but

867
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 9: they will be giving up half of what they view

868
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,479
Speaker 9: as the only negotiating assets that they have. I really

869
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 9: get the sense that they feel like they need to

870
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 9: make a deal right now. So I think we're going

871
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 9: to see a last minute flurry of activity where they

872
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,919
Speaker 9: try to get some concessions or even get a side

873
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 9: letter of their own from the White House, which I've

874
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 9: been told by sources is a possibility, saying like, look,

875
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 9: we can't put this in the real deal, but as

876
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 9: long as Cassam Brigades and soria al coulds are not

877
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 9: firing on the Israelis, meaning that they're not the ones

878
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 9: breaking the ceasefire, and as long as you are negotiating

879
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 9: in good faith, Trump is committed to making sure aid

880
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 9: flow continues beyond sixty days, and that the Israelis are

881
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 9: not going to resume a full scorched earth bombing campaign.

882
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 9: I think Palestinians are in an unspeakable situation right now.

883
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 9: The level of desperate is off the charts. The entire

884
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 9: society is being slowly strangled to death. And these guys

885
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 9: negotiating this deal as cartoonishly as they're portrayed, they're not

886
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 9: immune to it. Some of them, their mothers have been killed,

887
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 9: their brothers have been killed, their children have been killed.

888
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 9: You know, we think of them as in a cartoonish way,

889
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 9: but actually, as Adam Bohler, you know, after he met

890
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 9: with Amas, said you know, they're human beings too, so

891
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 9: I think I think what they're trying to do is

892
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 9: get the best deal they can get that doesn't surrender

893
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 9: the cause of Palestinian liberation, and that's why they fought

894
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 9: so hard to get that withdrawal and a commitment that

895
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 9: the genocide won't be resumed.

896
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 5: Well, Jeremy, thank you for your reporting on this and

897
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 5: thanks for joining us.

898
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: We'll certainly continue to follow it.

899
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 9: Thank you, guys.

900
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 5: Israel's ongoing assault of Gaza has led to a radical

901
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 5: transformation of views when it comes to Israel and Palestinians.

902
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 5: Harriett and CNN has shocking poll.

903
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 15: Numbers who Democrats sympathize more with Israelis or Palaestinians. In

904
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 15: twenty seventeen, the Democratic Party was a pro Israeli party.

905
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: Look at this.

906
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 15: They sympathized with the Israelis by thirteen points, more with

907
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 15: the Israelis than the Palestines.

908
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: But look at this sea change.

909
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 15: Now Democrats sympathize one with the Palestinians by forty three points.

910
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 1: Oh my god. That is a change in the margin.

911
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 15: Of fifty six points over the course of just eight years.

912
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 15: So all of a sudden it's the pro Palestinian position

913
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 15: that actually reigns supreme in democratic politics, not the Israeli position.

914
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: Now you see this, You see this among Democrats overall.

915
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 15: Right, But we know that Mandani's base was younger voters

916
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 15: within the Democratic Party, and so I want.

917
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 4: To break it down for you with younger Democrats.

918
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 15: Correct, So take a look here who age eighteen to

919
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 15: forty nine Democrats sympathized more with the Israelis of the Palestinians. Again,

920
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 15: in twenty seventeen, younger Democrats sympathize one with the Israelis

921
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 15: by fourteen points.

922
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: Look at this shift.

923
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 15: Now Palestinians, they sympathize more with the Palestinians by fifty

924
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 15: seven points.

925
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 1: That is an over.

926
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,240
Speaker 15: Seventy point shift in the margin in just a matter

927
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 15: of eight years. I rarely ever see shifts slight this

928
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 15: kate in which you see one side of the equation

929
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 15: leading by fourteen points eight years ago, and then all

930
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 15: of a sudden, the other side of the equation leading

931
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 15: by fifty seven points. The bottom line is the politics

932
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 15: around the Israelis and the Palestinians have shifted tremendously among Democrats,

933
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 15: and they've shifted specifically tremendously among Democrats who are under.

934
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: The age of fifty.

935
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 15: They have just shifted more so than I think that

936
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 15: anyone could possibly have imagined, say, eight years ago.

937
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, so, Emily, that is a major swing. And I'm

938
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 5: not shocked that there has been a shift. You can

939
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 5: kind of watch it happening in real time. But a

940
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 5: seventy point swing, yeah, among young voters. And by young,

941
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 5: he meant under fifty, which I'd be young and I

942
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 5: don't consider myself young.

943
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 4: Congratulations on your newly rediscovery.

944
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: Cort Harriett.

945
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:53,919
Speaker 5: And but across the board, a massive shift how much

946
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 5: of the and we're also staying a shift in the

947
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 5: Republican Party.

948
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, particularly that.

949
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,240
Speaker 1: In particularly among young vote. Yeah.

950
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 5: So you know, how do you think this kind of

951
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 5: reshapes the way that this issue affects our politics?

952
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, you've written so extensively about APAC and

953
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:16,839
Speaker 6: I think we're seeing and also like the Jonathan green

954
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 6: Blatz and the Anti Defamation League people, we're seeing a

955
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 6: complete freak out because they coasted off America's good vibes

956
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 6: on Israel for a really long time, especially inculcated in

957
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,240
Speaker 6: the minds of so many Americans after nine to eleven

958
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 6: don't need to debate the reason. But obviously there was

959
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 6: just an immense sensitivity to radical terrorists in the United

960
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 6: States in those years, and so it was much easier

961
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 6: for them to frame Israel as a sort of good

962
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 6: versus bad Manichean dichotomy like it just was.

963
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 4: They took for granted how easy that was.

964
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 6: So now you see they're freak out trying to eight

965
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 6: people like Ramesa oz turk as hamas sympathizers.

966
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 4: And I don't think the.

967
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,240
Speaker 1: Top student who was recently released but jailed for the op.

968
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 6: Ed right, Yeah, just like snatched off the street by

969
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 6: mass apparently ice agents. And so anyway, all that is

970
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 6: to say they have a lot less power than they

971
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 6: used to, and that is going to materialize, I think

972
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 6: in the next couple of cycles, as politicians who take

973
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 6: their money realize it's not as helpful for them to

974
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 6: be taking the positions that they need.

975
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 4: To in order to get the money.

976
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 6: And I don't know that that'll show up right away,

977
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 6: but it's I mean, I think the polling is pretty

978
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 6: clear that it's already showed up, but I don't know

979
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 6: how powerful it'll be as an electoral force in the

980
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,800
Speaker 6: next four to eight years, but it is going.

981
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:50,959
Speaker 4: To be a powerful electoral force.

982
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 6: They've lost the public support that they coasted off.

983
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 5: Of, and I think some of this is a is

984
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 5: a backlash to a PAC and the prograser a lot

985
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 5: kind of interfering in democratic politics in a way that

986
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 5: has not done them favors. And so in my last book,

987
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 5: the Squad has this history in it. So that poll

988
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 5: started in twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, you get the Squad

989
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 5: elected Rashida Talib and Ilhan Omar, in particular, becoming first

990
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,760
Speaker 5: two Muslim women to serve in Congress. And in early

991
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 5: twenty nineteen Democratic Majority for Israel DMFI formed as basically

992
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 5: an offshoot of a pack by APAC supporters and APAC

993
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 5: consultants specifically.

994
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,879
Speaker 1: To push back against Talib and Omar. That was there.

995
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,359
Speaker 1: That's why, that's why they rolled out.

996
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 5: They said that they were seeing a current of what

997
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 5: they called anti Israel sentiment within the Democratic Party and

998
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 5: they were going to spend enormous amounts of money to

999
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,839
Speaker 5: suppress that. If you look at the numbers since then,

1000
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 5: DMFI and a pack have been engaged in the greatest

1001
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 5: failure of political operations like ever like what an absolute

1002
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 5: like catastrophe for them. If their goal was to do

1003
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 5: the thing they set out to, they instead did the opposite.

1004
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 1: So they launched in twenty nineteen.

1005
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 5: The first candidate they ever spent money against actually was

1006
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 5: Bernie Sanders in Iowa. They then spent enormous amounts of

1007
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 5: money defending Guy Elliott Engel, who was the chair of

1008
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 5: the Foreign Relations Committee Foreign Affairs Committee in the House,

1009
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 5: who was being challenged by Jamal Bowman. They spent millions

1010
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 5: of dollars against Bowmen, and Bowman beat him and knocked

1011
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 5: him out anyway. And so what they concluded from that

1012
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 5: twenty twenty cycle was that they had not spent enough money,

1013
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 5: and so i DMFI raised more money. For twenty twenty two,

1014
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 5: a pack itself launched its first ever superpack.

1015
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 1: It had never had a super pack before.

1016
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 5: They had always just done small contributions of maxing out

1017
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 5: directly to.

1018
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 6: Candidates and buying goodwill with trips and.

1019
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:13,919
Speaker 5: Those goodwill with trips, and then if you crossed us,

1020
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 5: we will fund a primary challenger and we will take

1021
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 5: you out. And you only have to do that a

1022
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 5: couple of times. And then everybody else is like, Okay,

1023
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 5: don't care this much about that issue. I'm just going

1024
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 5: to just use tell I stand with Israel, You tell

1025
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 5: me what to do, and I was jobs, I'll say it.

1026
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 5: So twenty twenty two, they spend somewhere around thirty to

1027
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 5: fifty million dollars.

1028
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: Going after.

1029
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 5: Democrats who had said things that were sympathetic towards Palestinians,

1030
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 5: and they succeeded. They spent like seven eight million dollars

1031
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 5: stopping Donna Edwards from coming back to Congress because in

1032
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 5: two thousand and nine she had voted against In two

1033
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 5: thousand and eight, there was another Israeli war on gods,

1034
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 5: and she had voted the wrong way on one resolution,

1035
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,240
Speaker 5: and so they were like they spent seven million dollars

1036
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 5: to stop her. They spent many millions of dollars in

1037
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 5: like North Carolina to stop this city council candidate needed

1038
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 5: Alum from becoming a member of Congress. She famously had

1039
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 5: been friends with the There were three or four Muslims students,

1040
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 5: if you remember, in Chapel Hill who were killed in

1041
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 5: like this brutal hate crime, killed because they were Muslim.

1042
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 5: And she then became like guide into politics as a

1043
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 5: result of that, was city council member and was trying

1044
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:31,399
Speaker 5: to go to Congress, would have won, ended up losing

1045
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:33,479
Speaker 5: by like two points because they spent like seven million

1046
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 5: dollars against her. Then in twenty twenty four and so

1047
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 5: across the board they really blunted the growth of.

1048
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: The squad like politicians.

1049
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 5: Twenty twenty four, they spend twenty million against Jamal Bowman

1050
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 5: and knock him out, and ten million or so against

1051
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 5: Corey Bush knock her out, and spent one hundred million

1052
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 5: dollars in primaries across the country in the Democratic primaries,

1053
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 5: making sure that nobody is critical Israel, and so they

1054
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 5: were effectively able to beat a decent number of candidates,

1055
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,319
Speaker 5: Like the Democratic Caucus would look different when it comes

1056
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 5: to Israel palestein than it does now if not for

1057
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 5: all of this spending. Yeah, but good lord, the public.

1058
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 5: It has not worked on the Democratic public. In fact,

1059
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 5: if anything, it seems like it's backfired.

1060
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 6: Well, it often takes time, because we're not a direct democracy,

1061
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:31,919
Speaker 6: we're republic for the makeup of elected officials to catch

1062
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 6: up with public opinion. And that's one of the things

1063
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 6: Trump like forced among Republican voters. Is that you now

1064
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:40,760
Speaker 6: have like a Jim Banks in the Senate, for example,

1065
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 6: or you now have And even if you dispute that

1066
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 6: they're helping the working class, know that that's a raging

1067
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 6: argument obviously, But even if you dispute that, they at

1068
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 6: least understand public opinion, they're reflecting public opinion. And that

1069
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 6: hasn't quite happened on this issue yet. But I don't

1070
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 6: think either major political party understands how much it's about

1071
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 6: to happen, because they've been scapegoating, you know, this idea

1072
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 6: that all the anti Israel sentiment is anti Western Marxism,

1073
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 6: as opposed to just saying this is insane, this is

1074
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 6: a wildly bad policy. It's not making us safer, And

1075
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:21,879
Speaker 6: I just don't think they're fully ready for how that's

1076
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 6: going to manifest in public opinion. Those numbers don't just

1077
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 6: reflect a shift. I think they reflect, especially for younger people,

1078
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 6: a shift in the like this is way down on

1079
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 6: the list of most American voters. Priorities still is, but

1080
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 6: it's getting increasingly important to people. It's becoming increasingly animating

1081
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 6: because people are so pissed off about what they're seeing

1082
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 6: now that the media gatekeepers are less powerful. This information

1083
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 6: is coming through drop site, it's coming through breaking points,

1084
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 6: and I don't know. The last question that I have

1085
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 6: on this is how much of it is the way

1086
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:02,359
Speaker 6: the nets and Yahoo government has waged this war since

1087
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 6: October seventh, And like listen, we could go back and

1088
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 6: debate the history of how it is rules conducted itself

1089
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 6: in previous decades before October seventh. Seems that everyone at

1090
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 6: least agrees that what's happened since October seventh has been

1091
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 6: on another scale.

1092
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think, I think basically that's all all of it,

1093
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:22,280
Speaker 5: Like it's the public recoiling and what they're seeing. And actually,

1094
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 5: for an unbelievably crystallizing example of that, let's pull can

1095
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 5: you pull up C two?

1096
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: This is a st what.

1097
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 12: Appeared to be heavily armed American security contractors at one

1098
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 12: of the sites discussed how to disperse Palestinians nearby.

1099
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:45,919
Speaker 9: Posted on the northwest corner. Now, but the whole there,

1100
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 9: I don't have to be too aggressive.

1101
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 12: At that moment, bursts of gunfire are rupped close by

1102
00:54:50,560 --> 00:55:04,839
Speaker 12: at least fifteen shots. The camera's view is obscured by

1103
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,919
Speaker 12: a large dirt mount. The contractor who took the video

1104
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 12: told ap that he saw other contractors shooting in the

1105
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,360
Speaker 12: direction of Palestinians who had just collected their food and

1106
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 12: were departing.

1107
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 5: That's video obtained by the Associated Press that was posted

1108
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 5: yesterday along with a long investigation into allegations from American

1109
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:32,399
Speaker 5: consultants working with the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation who say that

1110
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:34,399
Speaker 5: what the Palestinians have been saying and what how Res

1111
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 5: has reported recently is true that people connected to GHF

1112
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 5: have been firing at aid seekers. And what you heard

1113
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 5: in that video was fifteen gunshots followed by I think

1114
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 5: you hit one, and then yeah, hell yeah boy. Now

1115
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 5: there's a mound, so you can't see exactly what's happening.

1116
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 5: And that apparently has even left some room for apologists

1117
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 5: to say, well, you know, could who knows, who knows

1118
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 5: what could have happened. Yeah, he said, we heard the

1119
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 5: gun shot, and he said you hit one, and then

1120
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 5: they celebrated hitting one. And later in that investigation, a

1121
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 5: guy says he saw somebody fall right like after the

1122
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 5: shot and the celebration of having hit one. They saw

1123
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 5: somebody fall. This is Hamas is nowhere around here. This

1124
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:31,800
Speaker 5: is there's this is not a live battle. Between Hamas

1125
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 5: and Kazignity.

1126
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 4: Right, it's not a live battle.

1127
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 6: But the claim that I think is I mean probably obvious,

1128
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 6: is that there are Hamas people who are getting aid

1129
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 6: right that they.

1130
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 4: I'm not saying it justifies it.

1131
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 6: I understaying like the plausibly are Hamas people in the crowd,

1132
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 6: But that doesn't mean that's not what That's not what

1133
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:51,839
Speaker 6: they're going at, right, Right, might be.

1134
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,479
Speaker 5: A guy who used to be part of Hamas or yeah,

1135
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:56,919
Speaker 5: but he's going and getting a box or something.

1136
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, they're not.

1137
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:00,879
Speaker 5: GF is not claiming that's why they're shooting at it, right,

1138
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:03,280
Speaker 5: They claim they're not shooting at them, like they straight

1139
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 5: up deny that what you just saw in that video

1140
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:05,760
Speaker 5: is happening.

1141
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 1: So I play that as an example. I think of

1142
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:13,879
Speaker 1: the reason that you're seeing these.

1143
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 5: Numbers shift that it's horrifying and nobody can support shooting

1144
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 5: at hungry people, unarmed hungry people.

1145
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 6: And one of the interesting things about after that Hiratz report,

1146
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,919
Speaker 6: I don't know if you picked up on this, maybe

1147
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 6: it's maybe it's just me, maybe it's naivete, but I

1148
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 6: thought it was very interesting that the Israeli government announced

1149
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 6: that they were doing an investigation instead of just flatly denying.

1150
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 6: I mean, obviously they're denying it, but they didn't miss it.

1151
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 5: And the reports that they changed their rules of engagement,

1152
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 5: and you've now had IDF soldiers complaining that it's harder

1153
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 5: to get permission to shoot these quote unquote warning shots

1154
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 5: at people.

1155
00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: After they changed the rules.

1156
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 5: So they said, we're not really doing this, but then

1157
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 5: they changed the rules of engagement on whether they could

1158
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 5: do it. And so the Democratic leadership has been, you know,

1159
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 5: mostly immune from a lot of this pressure because of

1160
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 5: all the money spent by DMFI an Apak.

1161
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: But let's take a look at how voters now feel

1162
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 1: about their own Democratic leaders. This is b three.

1163
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 15: Party leaders Democrats who say they want to replace their

1164
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 15: party leaders.

1165
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: Look at this.

1166
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 15: Sixty two percent nationally say yes, compared to just twenty

1167
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 15: four percent who say no. That lines up with the

1168
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 15: I the idea that Democrats view their own members of Congress,

1169
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 15: their own leaders in Congress record low approval rating. Democrats

1170
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 15: right now are out for blood. They want to take

1171
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 15: out their party leaders. And you saw that with Andrew

1172
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 15: Cuomo going Audios, amigos, goodbye, see you later.

1173
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 8: In New York.

1174
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:50,240
Speaker 5: This past Tuesday and Emily that that is not the

1175
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 5: Democratic Party that I know. The Democratic Party base has

1176
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 5: always been any kind of support the leaders support the leadership.

1177
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 5: To have them in this open state of rebellion, is

1178
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 5: is it genuinely new phenomenon?

1179
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 6: Well, I wonder, I mean, yeah, that is a really

1180
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 6: big distinction between what happened post Tea Party and what

1181
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 6: happened with Democrats, because it was pretty obvious that Republicans

1182
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 6: were furious with leadership. I think it was pretty obvious

1183
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 6: that Democrats were had a lot of reasons to be

1184
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 6: furious with leadership, but they kept Yeah, but I don't know.

1185
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 6: I wonder if it's just because they didn't feel like

1186
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 6: there was any alternative.

1187
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 4: To democratic leadership.

1188
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:40,439
Speaker 6: And it also I think democratic leadership was much more

1189
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 6: willingness signal cultural solidarity with the progressive wing. Meaning they

1190
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 6: were using it and you've written about this, they were

1191
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 6: using some of it as a shield, saying equality Act

1192
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 6: trans rites in ways that signaled equity, in ways that

1193
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 6: signaled solidarity with progressives.

1194
00:59:57,920 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 4: And I wonder actually if.

1195
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 6: That got them by for a decade and it's just

1196
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 6: not working anymore.

1197
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 5: Maybe I don't know, whatever it is it's something is changing.

1198
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 5: And also it seems like all of this has shut

1199
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 5: Richie Torres up for a second, which is quite amazing,

1200
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 5: but before it is just kind of amusing development. I

1201
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 5: guess you can check out this and you can go

1202
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 5: check out this tweet from Hammid Ben As he says,

1203
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 5: here's a remarkable statu showing the Zoron effect. The account

1204
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 5: Richie Torres hasn't tweeted either the word Israel or Hamas

1205
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 5: since June eighteenth, fourteen days ago.

1206
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 1: Is now more. That is the longest stretch by seven days.

1207
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,439
Speaker 5: That Torres has not tweeted one of those words since

1208
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 5: October seventh, twenty twenty three. And you can just you know,

1209
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 5: scroll through the Richie Torres This quote posts. So Torres

1210
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 5: the most kind of outspoken democratic Democrat when it comes

1211
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 5: to support for Israel, the most combative and aggressive out there.

1212
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 5: For him be quiet for this long, I think reflects

1213
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 5: that there is there is a centrifical force that involved

1214
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 5: in those numbers.

1215
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 6: Hey, I mean, I can't think of Richard Torres anymore

1216
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 6: without flashing back to Jamal Bowman with his arm around

1217
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 6: you and Griffin at Theron River.

1218
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 4: Something else.

1219
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:22,080
Speaker 6: Maybe that did it Actually, maybe that was Richie Torres

1220
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 6: was like, you're right, and I am whack and he since.

1221
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 1: That's not rude, Jamal Boman just canceled him. It's the

1222
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 1: bowman effect actually canceled him. Amazing things are changing.

1223
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:32,959
Speaker 4: Things are changing, that's for sure,