1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 2: Breaking us tonight a sickening stab spree and a local 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 2: AMC theater matinee. Four girls inside the theater, all stabbed 4 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 2: by a male purp wearing what was thought to be 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 2: a flowing, long platinum blonde wig, who was quote laughing 6 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: the whole time. One hour later, two stabbed at a 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,279 Speaker 2: nearby McDonald's, as another dead body turns up in an 8 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: apartment building. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 9 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us. 10 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 3: Four young girls had to an AMC in their hometown 11 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 3: of Braintree, Massachusetts. It's a Saturday matinee showing of the 12 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 3: movie If. The four girls, ages nine to seventeen, hunt 13 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 3: the theater all to themselves, but just minutes into the movie, 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 3: an unknown assailant, a man wearing a trench coat and 15 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 3: sporting long blonde hair, approaches in the dark in theater. 16 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 3: He walks into the aisle behind the girls, and without 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 3: saying a word, begins a bloody stabbing spree, knifing all 18 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 3: four girls. 19 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 2: My stars, do you know how many times I've gone 20 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 2: to a matinee, especially in the summertime with the twins 21 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 2: and it'll just be US three and the whole theater 22 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 2: joining me and all star panel to make sense of 23 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 2: what we know right now, including Susan Raff, investigative reporter 24 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 2: of w FSBTV Connecticut. 25 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: But first I want to go. 26 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 2: I need a shrink to doctor Gary Burcato joining US, 27 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 2: forensic psychologist, co creator of the Columbia mass Murder Database 28 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 2: and author of the New Evil, Understanding the Emergence of 29 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 2: Modern violent crime. Doctor Bricado, thank you for being with us. 30 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: I have long said and I have not seen any study, 31 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 2: a thesis, a doctoral summary, nothing on the psychopathy behind 32 00:01:54,800 --> 00:02:01,559 Speaker 2: stabbing versus shooting or strangulation or any other mode of homicide. 33 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 2: But stabbing, in my mind, and I don't know how 34 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 2: to verbalize a doctor, is a whole another layer of evil. 35 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 2: You have to It's like a sweetheart murdering. You're very 36 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 2: intimate with your victim. You are violently attacking them and 37 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 2: actually witnessing the blood, the life's blood, float out of 38 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 2: their body. 39 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:24,679 Speaker 1: So that's a lot different. 40 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 2: From say a sniper shooting at a distance right where 41 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 2: there's no contact with the victim, or a vehicular homicide. 42 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: It's just very different. 43 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 2: Psychopathy and on four little girls trying to watch a matinee. 44 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 4: Did the Columbia Murdered database. 45 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 5: One of the things that we consider it specifically was 46 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 5: the method that was You just now, this attack that 47 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 5: occurred across Massachusetts and Connecticut would technically be considered a 48 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 5: spree stabbing. It could have become a mass you know, 49 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 5: a spree killing, but there weren't an people who expired 50 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 5: to meet criteria for that. But it certainly was an 51 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 5: attempted spree stabbing. And one of the things we learned 52 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 5: about people who perpetrate these actions is that the choice 53 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 5: of weapon is very telling in terms of the psychology 54 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 5: of the individual. For example, an individual that uses a firearm, 55 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 5: probably because of the accessibility of them, is far less 56 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 5: likely to have bonafide serious mental illness. 57 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 4: We do have to think about. 58 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 5: That when you are talking about somebody who picks up 59 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 5: something around the house and goes on a spree. But 60 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 5: it is interesting because the people who use blades specifically 61 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 5: do seem to divide up into people who are very 62 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 5: disturbed and people who use them because of a more perverse, 63 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 5: fantasy oriented wish to have an intimacy with the victims. 64 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 5: For example, in the Coburger case, there's the use of 65 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,119 Speaker 5: a blade and that is technically an accused mass murder there. 66 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 5: I think it was selected more for the intimacy and 67 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 5: the pain it would have inflicted. So we have to 68 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 5: think about what kind of two types we're dealing with 69 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 5: when a blade is used. 70 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 2: Wow, that's a lot for me to take in. Remember 71 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 2: I'm just a trial lawyer. You're the shrink. But I 72 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 2: hear you and your comparisons are amazing. Specifically as it 73 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 2: goes to Coburger, what happened in this case? Imagine sitting 74 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 2: in a dark and matinee basically by yourself, four little 75 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 2: girls straight out to Susan Raff joining US investigative reporter WFSBTV. 76 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: Susan, thanks for being with us. 77 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 2: Susan, I want you to hear what the mom says, 78 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 2: and this is from our friends at Boston t WBTSCD. 79 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 6: My oldest was leaned over, she got something. He got 80 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 6: her in the back, and then my other daughter in 81 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 6: the top chest, and then my last daughter across her arm, 82 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 6: laughing the whole time. 83 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: Susan, what happened? 84 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 7: Well, I mean this is a terrible situation. I mean, 85 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 7: you have four young girls in a movie theater one. 86 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 7: I think the younger was only nine years old, and 87 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 7: it came in the dark. He stabbed those four girls. 88 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 7: This was terrifying for a lot of people, and especially 89 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 7: the mother of those girls. I think there were only 90 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 7: four girls in that movie theater at the time. 91 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 2: What more do we know about the theater stabbing a 92 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 2: four little girls? 93 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: Listen? 94 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 3: When the man with long blonde hair approaches the young 95 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 3: girl closest to him, she is bent down in her 96 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 3: seat reaching for something. He stabs her in the back, 97 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 3: then stabs the girl next to her in the chest. 98 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 3: He slashes the third across her arm, and stabs the 99 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 3: fourth in an unspecified location. The attacker then runs from 100 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 3: the theater while never uttering a word, he laughs throughout 101 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 3: the attack. All four girls sustain serious injuries. 102 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 2: Back to Susan Raff joining US WFSBTV. Susan, how did 103 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 2: the attacker get into the theater unnoticed? Did he pay? 104 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: Did he stake in a side door? And how did 105 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 2: he make a getaway? 106 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 7: I'm not exactly sure how he was able to get 107 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 7: into the theater. Those are all things that are we're 108 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 7: looking into. How did he get into that theater? How 109 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 7: did he get in and manage to get a knife 110 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 7: and stab those four young girls. Then obviously he left 111 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 7: the theater. But we're all very concerned as to what 112 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 7: exactly happened. How did he get into that theater? Did 113 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 7: he buy a ticket to that theater? At this point, 114 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 7: we really don't know, guys. 115 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 2: We've been told he did not buy a ticket. So 116 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 2: what is a security situation at this theater? How did 117 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: he just get in? And I don't know if you've noticed, 118 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 2: but a lot of theaters have changed their admittance after COVID. 119 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 2: Has the admitts to this theater been changed? We know 120 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 2: he didn't get a ticket, so how did he end 121 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 2: up and a practically isolated theater with four little girls? 122 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 2: Still under investigation, But that's not the end of the story. 123 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 3: Listen, a man driving a black porschemackin argues with the Plymouth, 124 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,559 Speaker 3: Massachusetts McDonald's employee, insisting the employee double check his order. 125 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 3: The driver tries to snatch the bag of food without paying, 126 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 3: but the twenty eight year old mail employee refuses to 127 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 3: let go. The driver stabs the employee in the arms 128 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 3: several times, then perks his car and enters the restaurant. 129 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 3: A twenty one year old female employee screams stop, you 130 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 3: don't have to do this, as the driver stabs her 131 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 3: in the arms as well. A third employee chases the 132 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 3: driver back to his car. He laughs and shows the 133 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 3: okay symbol before pulling off in the Porsche, laughs. 134 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: And shows the O K symbol. 135 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 2: Remember at McDonald's they are covered as surveillance cameras. 136 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: You know that's going to be tough to beat. 137 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: Eric fattis joining Menow trial lawyer, TV legal analyst and 138 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 2: founding partner of Varner Fattus Elite Legal, former felony prosecutor. 139 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: Eric there's no way now at dark in theater, that's 140 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 2: one thing you're. 141 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: Not going to get very good video out of that. 142 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 2: But the lobby to the theater, if in fact went 143 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 2: through the lobby, and at McDonald's, the drive through the 144 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 2: interior of the cash register, they're all covered with surveillance video. 145 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, no question, Nancy. 146 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 8: And I'm sure law enforcement is sort of retracing the 147 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 8: steps of the suspect and finding every piece of surveillance 148 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 8: video they can. It's my understanding that the vehicle may 149 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 8: have been on surveillance video, that the license plate may 150 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 8: have been on surveillance video. These are all pieces that 151 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 8: law enforcement is going to put together in this gruesome 152 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 8: puzzle that happened in Massachusetts and potentially Connecticut. 153 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: And another thing. 154 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 2: Eric fattis renowned trial lawyer. Think about it. How many 155 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 2: men are wearing what was first thought to be a 156 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 2: long platinum blonde wig. Really, how's he going to say? 157 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 2: How's he going to use the sad some other dude 158 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 2: did at defense? How many people are in and out 159 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: of theaters and McDonald's men wearing a long blonde flowing wig. 160 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 8: Eric, it's a distinguishing characteristic, no question, and it's going 161 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 8: to be difficult for his defense team to try to 162 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 8: argue alternative suspect. 163 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: Or something along those lines. 164 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,839 Speaker 8: We also know that the suspect had a pretty nice car, 165 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 8: a Portia SUV that's black, and so there are all 166 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 8: of these factors that prosecution is going to tie directly 167 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 8: to this suspect into no one else. 168 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: Guys. 169 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 2: In the last days, we discover a man wearing a 170 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 2: long apparently wearing a long flowing blonde wig, somehow sneaks 171 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 2: into a dark and AMC theater. 172 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 1: Only a few. 173 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: Little girls, four little girls in this theater for the matinee. 174 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 2: They've got the whole place to themselves. Little did they 175 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 2: know waiting in the wings was a guy with a 176 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 2: knife joining me. Doctor Eric Aeson, a board certified forensic 177 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 2: pathologist consultant Doctor Athon. 178 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, doctor Athon. 179 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 2: How often naratively do you see stabbing homicides versus bludgeoning, 180 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 2: want trauma, strangulation or asphyxiation and shootings? 181 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 9: Well, it depends on where you live. I mean, I've 182 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 9: worked in Georgia, I've worked in Chicago, and I currently 183 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,199 Speaker 9: now work in Florida. And you know, Chicago was the 184 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 9: place where we saw a lot of gunshot wing cases. 185 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 9: Atlanta actually had quite a few stab wound cases when 186 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 9: I was there. As far as bludgeonings, those are pretty 187 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 9: rare compared to the other two types. And what was 188 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 9: the other one that you mentioned, bludgeoning stab wounds association, 189 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 9: I mean like asphyxiation strength strangulation. I've had a few 190 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:40,839 Speaker 9: cases like that too, but those are pretty rare as well. 191 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 9: It's very tough to actually strangle an adult male, and 192 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 9: so that kind of eliminates half the population right there. 193 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 9: It's very, very tough to kill someone an adult male 194 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 9: by strangulation. So yeah, stab wounds probably number two on 195 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 9: my list for everywhere that I've worked for homicides. 196 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 197 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 2: Guys, four little girls stabbed in the AMC matinee, But again, 198 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 2: that's not the end. 199 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: Listen. 200 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 3: Plymouth p D uses surveillance footage and witness statements to 201 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 3: identify the black porschemackin from the drive through as registered 202 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 3: to Jared Revisa. State police officers spot the Porsche and 203 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 3: flip on blue lights, but Revisa takes off, leading to 204 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 3: an erratic chase in the nearby town of Sandwich. Revisa 205 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 3: crashes the car, which explodes into flames. 206 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 10: An intense police chase ends in a fiery crash for 207 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 10: Revisa's expensive Porsche. Jared Revisa is attained only moments later 208 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 10: and now faces multiple counts of assault with intent to 209 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 10: murder and battery charges. 210 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 2: But that wasn't the end of his stabbing spree. Who 211 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 2: is this guy? 212 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: Listen? 213 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 3: Jared Revisa is raised by his parents, Jason and Kim Revisa, 214 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 3: in Agawam, Massachusetts. Revisa attends classes at the University of 215 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 3: Massachusetts for one semester, but quickly abandons further studies to 216 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 3: start a digital marketing and social media management agency. Revisa 217 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 3: claims his self named business, Revisa Jones Productions, has offices 218 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 3: in Manhattan, Beverly Hills, Paris, and Naples. Revisa describes himself 219 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 3: as an artist, professional model, skier and social entrepreneur. 220 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm always suspicious when someone just says they're an entrepreneur. 221 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: Off what who is this guy? 222 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 2: Apparently he's had a very very privileged pass as friends 223 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 2: and former co worker's way in on who he is to. 224 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: Sais and Raft of the FSBTV. Who is he? 225 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 7: Well, he, I understand grew up in Martha's Vineyard. He 226 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 7: was living there. He does come from a life of privilege. 227 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,719 Speaker 7: I mean to drive a Porsche SUV like that. He 228 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 7: clearly comes from money. He was renting a house in 229 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 7: Deep River, Connecticut for about two months, so that can't 230 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 7: be inexpensive. It's a very expensive home. He was renting 231 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 7: a home in Deep River for two months. His social 232 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 7: media accounts are very you know, you can see for yourself. 233 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 7: He was experimenting with a lot of things and he 234 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 7: definitely comes from money. 235 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 2: From what I can glean, regarding his background, he is 236 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 2: a former u at Mass University of Massachusetts student who 237 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 2: claims to run and I'm quoting a legal a leading 238 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:44,719 Speaker 2: global digital marketing and social media management agency. 239 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: That's a mouthful. What's he doing on the beach if. 240 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 2: He's running a global digital marketing and social media management agency? 241 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: Okay? He claims he's got offices. 242 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 2: In Manhattan, Beverly Hills, Paris, and Naples. 243 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: Talk about a con man joining me. 244 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 2: Forensic psychologist who was the co creator of the Columbia 245 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 2: mass murder database, doctor Gary Bricado, Doctor Bricado. In some 246 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 2: cases I would classify this as swagger i ate lies, 247 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 2: but this is over the top, Doctor Briccado, a leading 248 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 2: global digital marketing and social media management agency with officers 249 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 2: in Manhattan, Beverly Hills, Paris and neighbor and Naples. 250 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: He's a bsir right. 251 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 5: Well, when we when we created the database, one of 252 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 5: the things we learned about people, whatever mechanism it is 253 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 5: they used to attempt a mass murderer to commit one, 254 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 5: is that there tends to be, as a general rule, 255 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 5: with these individuals, a precipitating event that is like the 256 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 5: match that goes to straw that sets them off. 257 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 4: But underlying that. 258 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 5: Moment, you have a kind of a person with a 259 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 5: personality where identity is very, very murky. They're very angry, 260 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 5: and they're very lost in the world. And with people 261 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 5: like that tend to do is toyed with their identity. 262 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 5: We know, for example, that before the offense, the individual 263 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 5: began to wonder, for example, of better gender identity and 264 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 5: began identifying as a sheet. He took on the personality 265 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 5: of somebody that worked out constantly and became muscular and 266 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 5: got very close to his father from the time of 267 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 5: COVID almost like obsessed was doing that. He clearly was 268 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 5: obsessed with the socioeconomic status of the family and feeling 269 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 5: valid within that. And I think the ultimate proof of it, 270 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 5: and the precipitating event comes in April that we're seeing 271 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 5: today in the papers, when he inveigels himself like he did, 272 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 5: into the movie theater into a photo shoot of a 273 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 5: model and basically tells her that he's going to marry 274 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 5: her and have her children. Terrifies her and is rejected, 275 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 5: is rebuffed by him. And this story is very classic 276 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 5: for the kind of people that go out and do 277 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 5: these things because you have a person who's trying to 278 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 5: look physically very beautiful and attractive and is rejected. And then, 279 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 5: of course who that that's targeted in the attack, young 280 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 5: cute kid females that he might have experienced the kind 281 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 5: of envy toward you have a person who's beginning to 282 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 5: identify as female and is preoccupied with physical beauty and youth, 283 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 5: and so I think you have as an expression of 284 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 5: anger that exploded in a person who's head identity was 285 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 5: wrapped up around those things. 286 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: Well. 287 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 2: While he claims from a leading global digital marketing and 288 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 2: social media management agency in Manhattan, Beverly Hills, Paris Enables, 289 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 2: his friends from his former college say they remember him 290 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 2: as simply being odd. They claim he only went to 291 00:16:55,400 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 2: school for a semester then disappeared. He claimed to be 292 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 2: a social media influencer back then in college, but according 293 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 2: to college friends or associates, they thought that was a joke, 294 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 2: that he was considered just to be odd. Back to 295 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 2: Susan Raft w FSB, I understand he lived on at 296 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 2: an island home which was the home to politicians and 297 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 2: celebrities for years, and I assume that the. 298 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 1: Reports are referring to Martha's vineyard. 299 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 7: That's correct, he was living on Martha's vineyard. I think 300 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 7: he's from Martha's Vineyard, but most recently I believe he 301 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 7: was living in Agawam, Massachusetts, which is outside of Springfield. 302 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 2: The stabbing spree at the AMC Theater followed by a 303 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 2: stabbing spree at a local McDonald's was not the end 304 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 2: of the story. 305 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: But I'm curious about the McDonald's spree. 306 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 2: Back to Susan raft, what if anything tipped off? What 307 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,239 Speaker 2: was the genesis of the McDonald's stabbing, because there was 308 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 2: no genesis at the AMC. 309 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: What about the McDonald's. Did they get the order wrong 310 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: or what? 311 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 7: I you know, I don't think so. I spoke actually 312 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 7: with one of the employees who was stabbed, a female 313 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 7: who worked there. First, It's believed that he drove to 314 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 7: the drive through he got upset about an order, but 315 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 7: he lunged through the drive through window and stabbed a 316 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 7: male employee at that McDonald several times, then parked his 317 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 7: Porsche and went inside the McDonald's and stabbed a female 318 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 7: employee several times in the arms. The employee that I 319 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 7: spoke to, who works at that McDonald's, said she was terrified, 320 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 7: and now she's afraid to go to work. She doesn't 321 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 7: really know what to do, and she can't use her 322 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 7: arms right now because they're all bandaged. So why he 323 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 7: just suddenly, you know, went off like that inside the McDonald's. 324 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 7: We just don't know, you know, we just don't know. 325 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 7: But he obviously scared those poor employees who were working 326 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 7: that day, and they probably won't come back to work. 327 00:18:58,280 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: Well more do we know about this guy? 328 00:18:59,760 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 11: List? 329 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 3: In early twenty twenty, Jared Revisa disappears entirely from social media. 330 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 3: When Revisa returns to Instagram two years later, he's nearly unrecognizable. Revisa, 331 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 3: who usually wears an all American look, now sports a 332 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 3: dark spray tan and long bleached hair. Reversa changes his 333 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 3: pronouns on Instagram to she her and his legal name 334 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 3: to Jared love Jones. Most of his posts are now 335 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 3: selfie's photos of his artwork and fitness videos. 336 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm getting a pretty good picture of who he is, 337 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 2: and he's reminding me of somebody else. He's reminding me 338 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 2: of a guy named Sam Haskell. Does the name Sam 339 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 2: Haskell ring a bell to anybody? 340 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: Haskell was the son of a. 341 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 2: Famous Hollywood agent, and I mean when I say famous, 342 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 2: I mean represented Dolly Parton, Whiopie Goldberg, so many others. 343 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 2: And he had a spoiled brat kid turned into a 344 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 2: spoiled brat man. 345 00:19:59,440 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: Listen. 346 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 12: Sam Haskell the Fourth is the thirty five year old 347 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 12: son of Sam Haskell the Third, an Emmy Award winning producer. 348 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 12: Haskell the Fourth list himself as a director and posted 349 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 12: several clips online of low budget videos he wrote and filmed. 350 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 12: Former Real Housewives of Beverly hillstar Brandy Glanville appears in 351 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 12: one of the clips for a movie which appears to 352 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 12: be a high school teen drama. Sam Haskell the Fourth 353 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 12: lives in a six bedroom home in Tarzana with his wife, 354 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 12: may Lee Haskell, their three young sons, and Maylee's parents, 355 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 12: Gashawn Lee, seventy two and sixty four year old Yang 356 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 12: Zai Wang. Authorities say may and both of her parents 357 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 12: are missing. 358 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 1: Like my resume says unhappy, bitter, resentful, and like really 359 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 1: good out of ordering off the menu bratt. 360 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 2: He's talking about ordering off the menu his wife and 361 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 2: in laws, who lived with him and his wife to 362 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 2: raise his children since he was so absentee. 363 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: They're dead. May's tours so has been found in a dumpster. 364 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 2: They're not missing, and both the parents were murdered, their 365 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 2: bodies haven't been found. 366 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: This is a guy who was given. 367 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 2: Everything on a silver platter on top of a Christmas tree, 368 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,959 Speaker 2: all that money, a three million dollar home, a wife 369 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 2: who was paying the mortgage for him, beautiful children now 370 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 2: believed to have been at home when mom May was murdered. 371 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 2: Given everything, but still turns into a killer. 372 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: That's Sam Haskell. I don't know if it's. 373 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 2: The tan, the workout regimen, the long blonde hair, or. 374 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 1: Just being a grown brat. I gotta have a shrink. 375 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 2: But first to Eric fattis, high profile trial lawyer, former prosecutor, 376 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,479 Speaker 2: a guy like this sitting in front of a jury 377 00:21:55,720 --> 00:22:01,199 Speaker 2: will set every jarar's teeth on edge because most of 378 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 2: us had to work, had to work and have responsibilities 379 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 2: that we have to uphold. Okay, but when you see 380 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 2: somebody like this guy, the AMC stabber, stabbing little girls 381 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 2: and a matinee, then going on to employees and a McDonald's, 382 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 2: all of them either weaker or less cunning or less 383 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 2: money than he has. 384 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: That's who he's picking on. Eric Fattis. 385 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 2: I just hope he comes into a jury deliberations at 386 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 2: the point of jury deliberations, having sat with this attitude 387 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 2: in front of a jury the whole trial. 388 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 8: Yeah, Nancy, it's very cringeworthy to just hear these people talk, 389 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 8: and you know, they don't come from adversity or struggle 390 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 8: or some sort of understandably difficult circumstances. 391 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: They come from privilege. They're given. 392 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 8: Look, he's got a picture of him with the Porsche 393 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 8: in which he allegedly committed these crimes, and so I 394 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 8: think it could be infuriating for a jury to be 395 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 8: exposed to the two someone who's this entitled, this spoiled, 396 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 8: this cavalier about the gravity of these serious stabbing allegations. 397 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 13: Visa goes on stabbing spree. Roommate and Dogg later found it. 398 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 13: Revisa allegedly stabbed for girls at ages nine through seventeen 399 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 13: Saturday evening at an AMC theater in Massachusetts. Revisa allegedly 400 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 13: finished off his spree at a McDonald's rest plaza, where 401 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 13: he publicly urinated at the drive through before stabbing two 402 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 13: employees in fleeing. 403 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 2: Did I hear her say he publicly urinated at the 404 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 2: drive through, Susan Raft, did. 405 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: I hear that? 406 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 7: Absolutely? Did? He did? He urinated at that McDonald's. 407 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 2: I worked at a restaurant in law school and there 408 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 2: was a drive through. It's a sandwich shop. I can 409 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 2: only imagine what McDonald's workers go through every day. But 410 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 2: to see this guy pull out his urinate, I think 411 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 2: that's way above and beyond the call of the job. 412 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, but it tells me. Susan Raff guys. 413 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 2: Susan Raff is an investigative reporter WFSB. 414 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: She has seen every. 415 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 2: Sort of crime that comes along. But you know what 416 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 2: I hate. I mean, I hate all crime, violent crime, 417 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 2: but someone that is so disdainful of other people that 418 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 2: it's okay for him to whip out his and urinate 419 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,360 Speaker 2: in front of the McDonald's employees. You know, a lot 420 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 2: of them are just kids, really, you know, in their teens, 421 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 2: getting a job, and they've got to see that number one. 422 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 2: Of course, that takes a back seat to a mass stabbing. 423 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 2: But that said, this guy has been given everything his 424 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:47,919 Speaker 2: whole life, and who does he pick on children and 425 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 2: a matinee and the people working at a McDonald's for 426 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 2: minimum wage. 427 00:24:55,640 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 1: That is who he literally pissays, And of course we 428 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: don't allow the P word at our house. But that's 429 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 1: what this guy did. 430 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 2: Who does he think he is And don't tune up 431 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 2: with me, Bricado, that he is legally insane. If he 432 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,719 Speaker 2: were legally insane, he would not have run from the scene. 433 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: He knew what he did was wrong. 434 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 2: And that is the legal test, the litmus test, the 435 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 2: only test in the United States. It's the old McNaughton rule, 436 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 2: as I've said before, brought over to our country from 437 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 2: the Brits our common law. If you know right from 438 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 2: wrong at the time of the incident, you are not insane. 439 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 2: At the time of the incident, he got in his 440 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 2: car and took off. He led police on a wild chase. 441 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 2: He knew what he did was wrong. He takes advantage 442 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 2: of people that are weaker, less powerful, and less cunning 443 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 2: than he is, and he guarantee you, has gotten away 444 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 2: with it. 445 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: For his whole life. 446 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 5: Well, Nancy, it's very interesting because the suspect's father happens 447 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 5: to be a mental health professional with about thirty five 448 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 5: years of experience, and the father is fill the press 449 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 5: that he believed that his son had some kind of 450 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 5: mental breakdown, I think was the phrase. I think what 451 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 5: I'm seeing evidence of it. Of course I haven't examined him, 452 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 5: but what I'm seeing evidence of it, what's available publicly, 453 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 5: is the kind of rageful, inadequate personality that under stress 454 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 5: and a sense of envy and anger exploded and certainly 455 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 5: would be described as a peculiar person. 456 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 2: Wait, you're going so fast, I can't take it all in. 457 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 2: Did you say he's got stress? What stress? He doesn't 458 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:50,159 Speaker 2: have to work, His daddy gave him a Porsche. He's 459 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,360 Speaker 2: living at a quote holiday home, which means vacation rental 460 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 2: that he's had for weeks. You heard Susan Raff. I've 461 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 2: never known her to be wrong on a fact so far. Okay, 462 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 2: maybe I missed something, but he's been bunking out at 463 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 2: Martha's Vineyard and various other vacation spots. 464 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: What stress. 465 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 5: Well, it's very interesting because, like a lot of people 466 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 5: who commit these offenses, he might have everything in the world, 467 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 5: but what he's missing probably is a kind of social 468 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 5: acceptance and beauty, which he might feel are essential things 469 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 5: that money can't buy. Really, and I think that if 470 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 5: you look at the offenses that are laid out. The 471 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 5: order of them is very telling, The arc of them 472 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 5: is very telling, because I think what you had was 473 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 5: an expression of envy towards these attractive, perhaps shoot young 474 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 5: kids that are in the geter, having the family together, 475 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 5: having positive time together. 476 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 2: You're telling me a grown man driving a Porsche with 477 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 2: anything he wants, is envious of how young was the 478 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 2: youngest one, Susan nine, a nine year old little girl. 479 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: That he stabbed nine years. 480 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Briccatto, I'm not by any of what you're saying. 481 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 2: They may hire you for the defense jealous. 482 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,239 Speaker 5: I think that when you compare what occurred in the 483 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 5: theater to what happened to the McDonald's, the McDonald's is 484 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 5: a very clear attempt to use privilege to compensate for 485 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 5: the insecurity by going to a place where you might 486 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 5: associate people with lower sex urinate you drive in with 487 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 5: your course the whole thing. So I think what you 488 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 5: see there is the whole arc of what Thissgui's personality 489 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 5: is about. You compensate for the inadequacy shown in the 490 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 5: first part of the crime by using your privilege and 491 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 5: so forth to condescend to people. And I think that's 492 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 5: the whole idea is is that at the center of 493 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 5: this individual, it's a sense of being weird, odd, rejected, 494 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 5: not good. 495 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 4: Enough for the matter how much he compensated. 496 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 5: And I think that's the stress that lit the fuse, 497 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 5: the rejection by the model. 498 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 4: Who knows what went on in the dynamic with the father. 499 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 2: Wait wait, okay, you know you're going to have to 500 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 2: crystallize that and consolidate that if you're speaking to a jury, 501 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 2: because I'm making notes as fast as i can. I've 502 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 2: got one note. Insecurity, Eric Fattus trial lawyer, can I 503 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 2: talk to you about insecurity and everything that doctor Gary 504 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 2: Bricado just said. 505 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: And I'm not saying he's. 506 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 2: Wrong, but if you try that on a jury, that 507 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 2: this guy w obviously comes from a wealthy family and 508 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 2: is rolling in money, is insecure, that's not going to work. Well. 509 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: I mean, he's caught on. 510 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 2: Video, Fattest, what do you do with that? He's driving 511 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 2: a Porsche. How many Porsches have you seen today? I've 512 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 2: seen zero Porsches. It's him, There's no question that is him. 513 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 2: He's driving the same Porsche when he leads cops on 514 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 2: a high speed chase, and of. 515 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: Course crashes the Porsche. Don't worry, Daddy'll probably pay for that. 516 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 2: Another thing, the father and I really do not blame 517 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 2: parents for the sins of their children. But on the 518 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 2: father's website at cross Point Clinical, it says, Revisa Senior 519 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 2: helps quote unlock each person's full potential as a human being. 520 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: What does that mean? 521 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 2: Okay, call me old school, but my parents gave me 522 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 2: one word of advice. Either you go get a really 523 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 2: good education or you can to live on this red 524 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 2: dirt road the rest of your life. 525 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 1: Not in those exact words, but unlock each person's full 526 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: potential as a human being. 527 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 2: I'm not blaming the father, but I'm telling you something. 528 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 2: As a defense lawyer, you better come up with something 529 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 2: and quick fattest. 530 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 8: Yeah, Nancy, you know it is an eerie statement in 531 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 8: light of what happened. But we've got to remember is that, 532 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 8: you know, everyone's a human being, and everyone's experienced trauma, 533 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 8: and that trauma affects different people in different ways, especially 534 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 8: if they are predisposed to react. 535 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 2: Everybody experiences trauma, you mean, like the four little girls 536 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 2: that got stabbed in the sea and the McDonald's workers. 537 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 2: And I'm not even through I got another dead body 538 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 2: to get you, Fattus. 539 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 8: That's extreme trauma, no question. But what we're talking about 540 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 8: from a legal standpoint is how this came to be, 541 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 8: What was going on inside of this person that resulted 542 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 8: in these heinous acts And wasn't simply that he's a bs. 543 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: Why are you saying this? What's going on and deep 544 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: inside of him? Who cares? Unless he's legally insane? 545 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 2: Don't care? Don't think me, harsh. I care more about 546 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 2: the four little girls. 547 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: I tell you what. 548 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 2: Somebody comes in and tries to assault my daughter in 549 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 2: a darkened theater, All hell's gonna break loose, Fattest, And 550 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 2: you're talking to me about his feelings on the inside. 551 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 2: Day with this feelings on the inside, what are. 552 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 8: You saying, sir nanthy and that that could be the 553 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 8: initial impression of the jury that the same as you. 554 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 8: But what we've got to look into is whether he 555 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 8: knew right from wrong. And when you look at some 556 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 8: of the statements to police allegedly, you know, he says 557 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 8: that he founded this country with John Adams. That right 558 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 8: there raises eyebrows as to whether this dude really knew 559 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 8: what reality was or not. 560 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 561 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 2: Guys joining me is Susan Raft WFSBATV, and she has 562 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 2: been dying to tell us. And she's right. We're not 563 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 2: even done with the body count. Here there's another stabbing victim. 564 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: Listen. 565 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 3: Connecticut police confirmed seventy year old Bruce Feldman of West 566 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 3: Hartford was found dead Saturday in a Deep River holiday home. 567 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 3: Feldman's family devastated by the news of his sudden death. 568 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 3: Feldman's longtime love Julie Feldman of West Hartford and tears, stating, 569 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 3: the whole thing's really shocking. We were together a very, 570 00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 3: very long time. 571 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 2: Okay, I've got to figure out who is the next victim. 572 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: Susan, who is this guy? 573 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 7: Who is this guy? This is Bruce Feldman. He was 574 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 7: seventy years old. We are told that he was recently divorced. 575 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 7: He didn't have a lot going on. We're not quite 576 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 7: sure what the relationship was with the suspect, but they 577 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 7: were staying at that home in Deep River, now Bruce Feldman. 578 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 7: They had two dogs there. One was a poodle and 579 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 7: another large dog, and Bruce used to walk the dog 580 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 7: in that neighborhood. They had been renting the home for 581 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 7: probably about two weeks. A lot of the neighbors say 582 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,479 Speaker 7: that he didn't have the dogs on the leash, that 583 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 7: they were walking around. He had some kind of altercation 584 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 7: where he sat on someone's property, Bruce Feldman, and that 585 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 7: may have sparked some tension, and it's believed that the 586 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 7: suspect then went to that house, took a shovel and 587 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 7: smashed the window. 588 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: And that's why. 589 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 7: Police went to that neighborhood because of the complaint from 590 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:58,959 Speaker 7: the woman who lived on the street. 591 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 2: Okay, wait, this is getting very convoluted. Hold on, So 592 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 2: we think suspect smashed a neighbor's window in that neighborhood. 593 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 2: He was bumped up with the now dead filman. So 594 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:19,240 Speaker 2: cobs show up on the smashed window. Then they find 595 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 2: a dead body. You were saying something about the two dogs. 596 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,399 Speaker 7: Right, He had two dogs, and we believe that those 597 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 7: dogs were also killed inside that home. 598 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 1: Let me understand something. 599 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 2: So we've got the victim, seventy year old Felman, Bruce Feldman, 600 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 2: and he had allowed suspect to live with him. He 601 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 2: allowed him to move in and now he's found dead. 602 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 2: Let me get stabbed to death and the two dogs 603 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 2: are killed as well. 604 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: Felman's two dogs were murdered, right. 605 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,800 Speaker 7: And what's really interesting about this is that the neighbors 606 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 7: say they saw Bruce Felman all the time in that neighborhood, 607 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 7: walking the poodle that you see in that photo around 608 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 7: the neighborhood, but they never saw the suspect. They only 609 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 7: saw Bruce Felman. At one point a neighbor said, you know, 610 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 7: we don't even believe that there's someone else there, but 611 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 7: they did see the Porsche there, so and that was 612 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 7: very critical for a police in this investigation. That Porsche 613 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 7: that you're looking at was parked in the driveway of 614 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:25,240 Speaker 7: that home and was also the car that was in Massachusetts. 615 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 7: But Bruce Feldman was seen as a very social guy, 616 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 7: very friendly with the neighbors. He tried to have a 617 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 7: playdate with one of the neighbors dogs. But for some reason, 618 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 7: something happened in that house and when police got there, 619 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 7: I believe that they found Bruce Felman's body outside and 620 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 7: he was dead. 621 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:45,720 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. 622 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 2: So you think the mode of death on Bruce Felman 623 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 2: was also stabbing. 624 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 7: I don't know if he was stabbed or he might 625 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 7: have been killed with a shovel. The investigation hasn't released 626 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 7: the cause of death. He may have been killed with 627 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 7: a shovel, and then at that point he obviously left 628 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 7: the scene. 629 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 2: I want to think this through, and this is how 630 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 2: I'd argue it to a jury once I finally got 631 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 2: to what It's not necessarily chronological, but we're discussing Felma 632 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 2: last because he was found dead last, along with his 633 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 2: pet dogs. 634 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: I would definitely argue to a jury. 635 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 2: Fattest joining me, Eric Fattest, trial lawyer and TV legal analyst. 636 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: Think about it. Think about picking up a shovel. 637 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 2: I mean, when you see a pet dog, what is 638 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 2: your natural instinct minus to try to pet it and 639 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,399 Speaker 2: baby talk to it and love on it. Me too, 640 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 2: think about picking up a shovel and swinging it with 641 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 2: such force, the act of beating someone dead with a 642 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:52,839 Speaker 2: shovel and then killing the two dogs. Did he cut 643 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 2: them across the throat with a shovel? Did he bludgeon 644 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 2: them dead with the shovel? That's what happened to Film 645 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 2: and his two dogs. I submit at the hands of 646 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 2: this guy. 647 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:06,840 Speaker 1: Well, you know, I hear you, Nancy. 648 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 8: But the defense perspective is, is this guy some heartless 649 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 8: chiller or is a completely office rocker. Think about it. 650 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,240 Speaker 8: Why kill the dogs? If he has some beef with Feldman, 651 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,280 Speaker 8: why take the additional step to kill two innocent dogs. 652 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 8: You know, that could be evidence in fact that he 653 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 8: didn't know right from wrong and he was just acting 654 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 8: like a crazy person in that. 655 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 2: Why did he run Fattus? If he didn't know right 656 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 2: from wrong, why did he run? He ran from the 657 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 2: movie theater, He took off and ran from the McDonald's. 658 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,320 Speaker 2: He in fact led police on a high speed chase. 659 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: He reminds me of another spoiled brat killer. Listen. 660 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 12: The attorney for New York City's sidewalk shover At Lauren Ponzienza, 661 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,720 Speaker 12: claims the spoiled socialite was a drunk and high mess 662 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 12: the night she allegedly pushed legendary Broadway singing coach Barbara Augustn, 663 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,439 Speaker 12: causing the eighties seven year old to fall and later 664 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 12: die from her injuries. Posienza is facing charges of manslaughter 665 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 12: and assault for the unprovoked attack on Gustern. After Posienza 666 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 12: allegedly shoved her, the eighty seven year old legend fell 667 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 12: and hit her head. She died five days later from 668 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 12: those injuries. 669 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: That defendant, the so called cesspool princess. 670 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 2: Her dad was a millionaire multi million is a multimillionaire 671 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 2: from building cesspools. 672 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 1: For rich people. 673 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 2: Gets drunk and shoves a little old lady who then dies, 674 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 2: and then ran off and deleted all of her social media, 675 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,760 Speaker 2: tried to hide out, tried to delete everything on her phone. 676 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: She knew darn well what she had done. 677 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:48,320 Speaker 2: And miss Gustern died and let me remind everybody. 678 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: Of Heather Mac, another spoiled brat. 679 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,879 Speaker 11: I don't regret killing my mother, And as evil as 680 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 11: that may sound, that's my reality, in my heart, in 681 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:04,320 Speaker 11: my mind, my soul and my blood and the oxygen 682 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 11: running through my body, that I wanted to. 683 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: Kill my mother. 684 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,359 Speaker 12: Sheilav On Weismac takes her spoiled nineteen year old daughter, 685 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 12: Heather Mack, to Bally for a luxury vacation to repair 686 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,359 Speaker 12: their mom daughter relationship and put distance between Heather and 687 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 12: her twenty one year old boyfriend, Tommy Schaeffer. Heather has 688 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,360 Speaker 12: different plans, uses mom's money to sneak Tommy to Bally, 689 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,240 Speaker 12: where they kill Sheila Mac, fold her body in a suitcase, 690 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 12: and take a taxi to a cheap hotel leaving the hotel, 691 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 12: They forget the luggage and hotel security opens it up 692 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 12: to find sheilav On weismac Ethan Couch was just sixteen 693 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 12: when he killed four people and wounded nine others while 694 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 12: he was drunk on drugs and speeding. His attorney said 695 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 12: it was his parent's fault for never telling the boy no, 696 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 12: never having any consequences for his actions. It was called affluenza, 697 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,799 Speaker 12: and the judge bought it. Couch has sentenced to an 698 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 12: unspecified rehab facility at his parents' expense. The time he 699 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 12: had to stay also unspecified for killing four people and 700 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:02,920 Speaker 12: he still didn't follow the rules. 701 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:03,360 Speaker 1: Guys. 702 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 2: In the last hours, we are learning more about a 703 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:11,280 Speaker 2: suspect who eludes police capture, taking them on a wild 704 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 2: goose chase a high speed pursuit after stabbing four little 705 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:20,760 Speaker 2: girls in an AMC theater, stabbing McDonald's employees not far away, 706 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 2: and now suspected the stabbing death of his roommate and 707 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:30,560 Speaker 2: the roommate's two dogs. Bruce Feldman, I'm not sure that 708 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 2: we really even know all of his victims. What is 709 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 2: even more shocking is that he's from an affluent family 710 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 2: and has been given everything on a silver platter, Susan RAFTFSB. 711 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: You were in court, what did you see? 712 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 7: He appeared in court. He was evaluated by a forensic 713 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 7: psychologist for about two hours, and we waited for that. 714 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 7: Then they came back and now he is at Bridgewater 715 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 7: Hospital in Massachusetts, where he's going to be for the 716 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,919 Speaker 7: next twenty days. This forensic psychologist said, yes, he does 717 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,719 Speaker 7: seem to understand some things you're pointing out. He knows 718 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 7: right from wrong. He understood the process in the court. 719 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:18,799 Speaker 7: But she called him delusional, that he is somewhat psychotic, 720 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 7: that he thinks his parents are involved in the mafia, 721 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 7: that he believes he's being controlled by outside forces. So 722 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 7: it appears that he does suffer from a lot of 723 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,359 Speaker 7: mental health issues. It was brought out by that same 724 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,400 Speaker 7: psychologist that for the past two years he's been suffering 725 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 7: from that. So in the end in June seventeenth, when 726 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 7: he goes. 727 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,320 Speaker 2: Okay, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, 728 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 2: hold on, Susan rapaon, he has delusions of grandeur. He 729 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 2: may be histrionic. That is not going to rise to 730 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 2: the level of insanity. So what exactly happened in court? 731 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 7: Well, I think they have to determine that the judge 732 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,799 Speaker 7: wants to see in the next twenty days, he's being 733 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 7: evaluated if he's able to work with his attorney to 734 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:16,840 Speaker 7: defend himself. So whether whatever they decide, that will determine 735 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 7: what goes forward, whether he does go to trial or not. 736 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,480 Speaker 7: And that's very talent. 737 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,319 Speaker 1: To Eric Fattis joining us. 738 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 2: Eric, there's a far cry between having a delusion of 739 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 2: grandeur or being histrionic, or spinning yarns about yourself or 740 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 2: your family, which you know you heard Dodger Bricado talking 741 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,759 Speaker 2: about a model that it just turned down and advances 742 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,800 Speaker 2: and a proposal by the suspect that's not going to 743 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 2: rise to legal insanity. 744 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:52,680 Speaker 1: Now he could. 745 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:58,440 Speaker 2: Feign fake some sort of a delusion to be titled 746 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 2: incompetent deci trial at this time, which doesn't mean you 747 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:04,400 Speaker 2: are insane. 748 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 1: At the time of the act. 749 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,160 Speaker 2: It means you're not fit to help your lawyer try 750 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,040 Speaker 2: the case. And what they do is put you in 751 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 2: a mental facility and give you the right therapy and 752 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,760 Speaker 2: medication until you are fit to stand trial. The murdyr 753 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 2: Bruce Felman, the Dogs, the stabbings of four little girls, 754 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:24,319 Speaker 2: and the McDonald's employees. 755 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: That's a crime spree. 756 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,360 Speaker 2: There has got to be just as fat as certainly, 757 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,959 Speaker 2: and that's what the community is calling for, and that that's. 758 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 8: Obviously a reasonable position to take. But you know, in 759 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,839 Speaker 8: looking at it, his attorney's raised competency. There's been at 760 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:43,279 Speaker 8: least one court practitioner, a doctor who has said that 761 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,840 Speaker 8: he has very serious delusions, and so I think there 762 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,440 Speaker 8: are some real questions as to whether this is someone 763 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,560 Speaker 8: with mental illness who's just a really good manipulator and 764 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,200 Speaker 8: who is homicidal, or if it's someone who is so 765 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,759 Speaker 8: detached from reality that they cannot stand trial to face 766 00:43:57,840 --> 00:43:59,960 Speaker 8: these charges and cannot be convicted of the two. 767 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:06,000 Speaker 2: Doctor Gary Riccato, clinical forensics psychologist, author of The New Evil, 768 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 2: Understanding the Emergence of Modern Violent Crime. 769 00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 1: Where do you stand on this? 770 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,839 Speaker 2: I certainly do not want someone who is insane to 771 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,719 Speaker 2: go into GPA general population, But I don't think he 772 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 2: was insane at the time of the stabbings. 773 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,440 Speaker 5: Well. First of all, the crossover between the psychotic illness 774 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:30,239 Speaker 5: and violence has been a specialty throughout my career, and 775 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 5: I will tell you that part of the trouble is 776 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,160 Speaker 5: is that people think that psychotic disorders are like a 777 00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:35,840 Speaker 5: light switch. 778 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,400 Speaker 4: You know it's on or it's off. You have it 779 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:37,959 Speaker 4: or you don't. 780 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,239 Speaker 5: The truth is there's a wide array of traits that 781 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,280 Speaker 5: can be psychotic, signs and symptoms that can be psychotic, 782 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,240 Speaker 5: And you can have an individual with that kind of core, 783 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,799 Speaker 5: but who knows precisely what he's doing and is motivated 784 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,520 Speaker 5: by ordinary human feelings and anger and so forth. But 785 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,800 Speaker 5: the core of the individual could still be peculiar whatever. 786 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:03,000 Speaker 5: It's not a justification because the individual specific motivation is 787 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,640 Speaker 5: not voices or something like that. It's something else, like 788 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,120 Speaker 5: being angry after an argument, or feeling slighted or so forth, 789 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:10,680 Speaker 5: So that. 790 00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,359 Speaker 4: It doesn't become so much a defense as much as a. 791 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,520 Speaker 5: Kind of mitigating factor perhaps that you might want to 792 00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 5: tickets consideration when understanding the breadth of the offense and 793 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,880 Speaker 5: why it was so random and chaotic and so forth. 794 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 5: But the original impetus, I'm not sure was psychotic in nature, 795 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,319 Speaker 5: based on what I'm hearing. And the other thing is, 796 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,759 Speaker 5: you're right, Nancy, there were steps taken that indicate a 797 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,879 Speaker 5: kind of concealment and a fleeing that you wouldn't really 798 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 5: say at a person that didn't know what he was doing. 799 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 5: I mean going in in the trench coat, for example, 800 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,480 Speaker 5: into the theater, going into a darkened place where people 801 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,280 Speaker 5: wouldn't know that they were about to be attacked, running 802 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 5: from authorities, and so forth. There are signs there of 803 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,520 Speaker 5: somebody who knows the difference being right and wrong. And 804 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 5: I think that is ultimately all anybody who's going to 805 00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 5: care about. 806 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,479 Speaker 2: Legally, we wait as just as unfolds, and as we wait, 807 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,400 Speaker 2: we stopped to remember an American hero, Sergeant Heather Glynn. 808 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,880 Speaker 2: Sergeant Glynn shot and killed in the line of duty 809 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:12,799 Speaker 2: till City, Indiana, Survived by broken hearted parents Bob and Jane, 810 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:19,440 Speaker 2: her brother Jason, and nephew Trace. American hero Sergeant Heather Glenn. 811 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,360 Speaker 2: Thank you to all of our guests coming together to 812 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,960 Speaker 2: make sense of what we know in this case. But 813 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,720 Speaker 2: thank you especially to you for being with us tonight 814 00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:36,400 Speaker 2: and every night. Nancy Gray signing off, good night friend,