1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: You're listening to Modern Rules, a production of MSNBC and 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. Power Corrupts. You see it all over 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: the place. When people get to the top, they say 4 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: the rules don't apply to me. I'm better than everybody else. 5 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I think the first thing is you have 6 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: to have a conversation about privilege and about power right 7 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: and would be honest about it. We are taking power 8 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: away from white men. I want people to understand that 9 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: we don't live in a society where zero sum, That 10 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: we don't live in a society where in order for 11 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: this person to gain it means I must lose. We 12 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: have to use our voice to be able to say 13 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: we don't have to subscribe to these old ways, in 14 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: these old ways of thinking about how the world apportions opportunity. 15 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: I'm Stephanie Rule, MSNBC anchor and NBC News correspondent, and 16 00:00:50,920 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: this is Modern Rules. In this season of Modern Rules, 17 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to be spending time unpacking the harriest conversations 18 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: from privilege to political correctness, to try and figure out 19 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: how we can navigate this changing world and break through 20 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: to actually talk with and learn from the people who 21 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: disagree with us, and maybe just maybe learn something along 22 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: the way. It's easy for me, as somebody who lives 23 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: in a brownstone on the Upper East Side, as somebody 24 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: whose kids all go to fancy New York City private schools, 25 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: I can advocate for social issues because they're far far 26 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: away from me. They don't really impact my daily life. 27 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: And if they did impact my life, if my kids 28 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: or my family was hurt in any way by this, 29 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: what I care so much about these issues Today on 30 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: Modern Rules, we're talking privilege, and I'm gonna be speaking 31 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: to a few people who know quite a bit about 32 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: how privilege impacts us, both personally and professionally. One of 33 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:05,559 Speaker 1: the trickiest parts about discussing privilege is actually acknowledging your own. 34 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 1: In this episode, I'm going to dig deep with politician 35 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: and Girls Who Code founder Rushmasa, Johnny Army, veteran author, 36 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: social activist and CEO of Robin Hood Westmore, and somebody 37 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: very near and dear to me, my own husband, Andy Hubbard. 38 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: The conversation about privilege is one that is very very 39 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: close to me in my mind, I don't think I 40 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: grew up with a lot of privilege. Now, a lot 41 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: of others would say, you absolutely did You're a white 42 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: girl from the Northeast who went to a really good 43 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: school and then you went on to work on Wall 44 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: Street and now you have a TV show. So yes, 45 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: that sure sounds privileged. But I married somebody who's the 46 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: definition of it. I mentioned it before. I want to 47 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,679 Speaker 1: bring him into the conversation in a real way and 48 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 1: gives sort of this textbook example of the guy who 49 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: goes to a prep school, who plays a prep school sport, 50 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: who then goes on to an Ivy League college and 51 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: then Wall Street has come on over. My dearest person, 52 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: my number one my husband, Andy Hubbard. Andy Hubbard, my 53 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: number one man. Obviously you're my husband. That's why I 54 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: invite you here today to join me. I'm not knocking 55 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: how smart or talented you are, but your path seemed 56 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: really natural, right. You went to a super elite high school, 57 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: you went to a super elite college, and then you 58 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: went and worked on Wall Street and you and I 59 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: met because we were in the same training program at 60 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: Credit Swiss. I went to a public school in New Jersey. 61 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: I went to Lehigh. I decided I wanted to work 62 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: in banking. I wrote endless letters to Lehi alumni and 63 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: you and I both showed up in New York City 64 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: on the first day of Credit swisses training program, and 65 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: when we did, I didn't know a single person. I 66 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: didn't even know what anyone did there for a living. 67 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: And you had an awesome network as soon as you 68 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: got there, trading floors filled with loads of guys who 69 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: look and sound like you, who all played college lacrosse, 70 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: who were Hey, Andy, come sit with Amy, let me 71 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: teach you. I'll be your mentor come join my desk. 72 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: Did you realize at the time how much privilege you 73 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: had in a way? I know. It's definitely the lacrosse 74 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: connection that got me the intro to Wall Street. The 75 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: class ahead of me at Princeton. I think something like 76 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: ten of the eleven lacrosse players went to work on 77 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: Wall Street after they graduated, and there were many of 78 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: them saying, Andy, you should do this. It's gonna be 79 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: really great. You're you're smart, you can figure out these derivatives. 80 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 1: You can make it a lot of money and we'll 81 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: have a lot of fun. It'll be great. You should 82 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: really do it. And so a friend of mine made 83 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: the introduction. He said, you know, someone at Credit Swiss 84 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 1: is looking for a derivative salesperson, you should really give 85 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: this a shot. So I did, and so I definitely 86 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: knew that it was it was luck in those connections 87 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: that brought me there, and you know, when I got there, 88 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: it was it was certainly some lacrosse layers, but a 89 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: lot of it was just other Princeton alumni that I 90 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: met at the bank who would help me. And so 91 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,119 Speaker 1: it's incredibly powerful. I mean, I think that's a major 92 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: reason why some people try to get to these elite schools. 93 00:04:58,120 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of people go to Harvard 94 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: Business will for what they learn. They go for the connections, 95 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: they go for the network, They go for the job 96 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: opportunities that it gives them because of where they are, 97 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: not because of what they know. Then, are strong networks 98 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: a good thing or a bad thing, because obviously they've 99 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: served you, But you had access to all of these 100 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: networks and lots of other people didn't even know that 101 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: these opportunities existed, and because of that, it only further 102 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: advances privilege. Right, that's a tough question. I think they 103 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: are a reality, and they're certainly not fair. Privilege does 104 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 1: tend to perpetuate itself. The privilege are gonna do everything 105 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: possible to maintain that privilege. Maybe not everything possible. They 106 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: often want to make the appearance of trying to level 107 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: the blankfield, but they're going to try to do that 108 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 1: without actually jeopardizing their own privilege. But I think it 109 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: is a reality, and I think we do have an 110 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,679 Speaker 1: obligation to try to make society as fair as possible. 111 00:05:58,279 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: But I think it's never going to be completely fair. 112 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: But in order to make society more fair, that requires 113 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: giving up privilege, right. I think it's simple. It's good 114 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: for society, it's bad for the people to enjoy the privilege. 115 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: I think that that's when you get a lot of 116 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 1: pain in the world. When people had something and is 117 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: taken away from them. I think that feels a lot 118 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: worse than in many cases, that feels a lot worse 119 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: than never having it at all. I think that's when 120 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: people get angry and and fight for it. I say, 121 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: you know, I'm used to having this, therefore I deserve it, 122 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: and you're trying to take it away from me. And 123 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: I think that's people fight for those sort of things. 124 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: If you never really tasted it in the first place, 125 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: it's kind of like easy come, easy go. So I think, 126 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: do you really think it's easy, come, easy go? Do 127 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: you really think all the women who don't get top 128 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: opportunities and investment banks, or minority candidates who don't get 129 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: to meet the top law firms and then get on 130 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: the partner track, do you really think they're saying, easy, come, 131 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: easy go up? Just let the white guys have it. 132 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: You know, who cares that I never got to do it? No, 133 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: definitely not. That's not what I mean. But if you 134 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: never You're right, I'm taking a much smaller view. But 135 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: if you never experienced something and you had it once 136 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: and then you never had it again, you don't really 137 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: come to expect it. But if you had it, you 138 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: know every day of your life and that's taken away, 139 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: it feels different. Talk about this a little bit. Where 140 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: I came from this sort of pedigree of good schools 141 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: and you came from a public school and you didn't 142 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: have sports kind of leading you into your Wall Street creer. 143 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: Are you knocking my high school cheerleading career? True? Did 144 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: that was that a pipeline to also? So it was 145 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: a pipeline to awesome? So what it was was a 146 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: pipeline for Street skills, and hustle, So you know, it 147 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: wasn't easy for you. It's easy for a lot of 148 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: you know, Princeton grads to get an interview at Wall Street. 149 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: Not so easy if you're not part of these select schools. 150 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: And so you had to figure out other ways to 151 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: get ahead, and you figured out hustle, grit, tenacity, which 152 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: I feel hearth that some privileged kids don't have. So 153 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: I think I saw plenty of this at Princeton from 154 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: kids who went to the top schools just felt they 155 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: deserved everything just to be handed to them. It just 156 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: kind of fell into their lap, and so they didn't 157 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: have that hustle. You mean all the young guys who 158 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: when you and I were both in investment banking and 159 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: i'd be doing recruiting, I would interview and they'd be 160 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: like sweet because they knew I was married to you, 161 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: and they were college lacrosse players, and they thought it 162 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: would be a totally easy, awesome, hooked up interview until 163 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: I would tear up their resumes, swallowed them, and then 164 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: kick them out of the room because I couldn't because 165 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: I was choking on their privilege. Do you mean those guys, yes, 166 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 1: And and By the way, I think some of those 167 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: kids felt it the same when they interviewed with me 168 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: and said, oh, I played across, this is gonna be easy. 169 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: So I would say it got a lot of people 170 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: in the door, but it wouldn't get them a job. 171 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: If you weren't qualified, just being a lacrosse player didn't 172 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: get you the job. There was one kid that interviewed 173 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,719 Speaker 1: who absolutely bombed the interview and so sorry. I mean, 174 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: you know, I like your sport and everything, but not 175 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 1: going to cut it. Why do you think some privileged people, 176 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: by nature of being privileged, become awful And here's what 177 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: I mean. Think about high school. The prettiest, most popular 178 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: girls become the most twisted, elite, mean girls guys who 179 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: are the best athletes, right, but think about all the 180 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: stories of horrible, awful, misogynistic, abusive, hazing behaviors that whether 181 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: they happen at the best fraternities or on the best 182 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: sports teams or by the coolest girls in theory, wouldn't 183 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: you think that the luckiest people would be the most 184 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 1: generous and instead you've seen the opposite practices. Yeah, I 185 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: don't think it's unusual at all. I think why why 186 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: does it exist. Power corrupts. You see it all over 187 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: the place. When people get to the top, they say 188 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: the rules don't apply to me. I'm better than everybody else, 189 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: and that's proven by where I am right now. So 190 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: clearly the rules that apply to everybody else don't apply 191 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: to me. I can break them. I can be a jerk, 192 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: I can cheat on my taxes. I can do all 193 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: kinds of things that they wouldn't let normal people get 194 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: away with because they consider themselves superior. Do you think 195 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: white privilege is a toxic term. Yeah? I think if 196 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: you if you try to discuss it with a white 197 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: privileged person, they're going to immediately be on the defensive. 198 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: Maybe I sound like I'm not, but I think I 199 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: will try to defend it. You know, I'll say, well, 200 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: I was aware of it, so it's really not as 201 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: bad as someone else who is completely oblivious and just 202 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: expected everything. Okay, I'm saying this in a loving way. 203 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: You are the portrait to me. You are the portrait 204 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: of white privilege. Do you feel bad about it? No? 205 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: I think I feel that it is unfair, and I 206 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: feel an obligation to try to help those who have 207 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: not grown up with white privilege, But I think, are 208 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: you prepared to give something up? Yeah? I think so. 209 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: But what I was gonna say is I still feel 210 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: like I had to work hard, So it wasn't like 211 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: I was lazy and privilege and it just fell into 212 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,199 Speaker 1: my lap. You know. There's a lot of hard work 213 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: and sacrifice that goes into getting where I am, and 214 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: I think so many people feel that way, and that's 215 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: a way to sort of rationalize that privilege and say, well, 216 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: I worked hard for this. But on the flip side, 217 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who don't have white privilege 218 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: who are working really, really hard and still can't get anywhere. 219 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: Do you think it's worse now than ever in terms 220 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: of people that are not privileged to pursue the American dream. 221 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: I don't think it's worse now. I mean, you're the 222 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: board share of a charter school in East New York, 223 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: So you see right here sort of the other side 224 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: of the coin. Mhm. And I see that those kids 225 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: who attend that school do have opportunities, do get to 226 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: attend elite universities, do get an education that they wouldn't 227 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: be getting if they were in a traditional public school. 228 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: And so I definitely feel very strongly about education is 229 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: the key to opening up opportunities to people, and I 230 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,319 Speaker 1: think it's a shame that the education system in the 231 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: US is in such bad shape. It really has not 232 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: improved in a very long time for all sorts of 233 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: various reasons. But I think it is keeping the underprivileged down, 234 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: and if we can open it up and give them 235 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,719 Speaker 1: better educational opportunities, I think that's a way out of 236 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: the cycle of poverty. We're going to be right back 237 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: after a quick break, Welcome back to modern rules. My 238 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: next guest Russima to Johnny. She's a personal hero of mine. 239 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: She's a woman who truly lives the American dream, a 240 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: lawyer who, like me, spent her early career on Wall Street. 241 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: She has since run for Congress and founded the technology 242 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: organization Girls Who Code. If you were running for office today, 243 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: people would come out of the gate and say, Russima, 244 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: you once worked at a hedge far Oh my god. 245 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: When I was running for office, this came up twice 246 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: for me. Right, Oh, you worked on Wall Street. You 247 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: worked on Wall Street? And I was like, listen, I 248 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: had threellars and student loan debt. I was helping my 249 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 1: parents pay for their mortgage. Oftentimes it's the most privileged 250 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: liberals who are making that charge at us in the 251 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: first place, who didn't have to go work anywhere because 252 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: mommy and daddy were paying for college and their apartment 253 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: and their rent and all of that. And so we 254 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: don't have enough conversations about what's happening with privilege in 255 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 1: my own political party. Okay, so to that exact point, 256 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: my own family, who voted for the president, has said 257 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: to me, Stefan, you're a luxury voter. We're not. And 258 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: lots of people vote based on the fact they need 259 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: to be able to get by if they run a 260 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: small business. They don't want to be hit with regulation, 261 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: they don't want their taxes to go up. And issues 262 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,079 Speaker 1: that matter to me, you know, that are hot button issues. 263 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: Is it easy for people of privilege to care about 264 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: those things because they don't directly impact them. I spend 265 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: most of my days that girls of Code, quite frankly, 266 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: converting white and Asian men to give up their privilege 267 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: to let the rest of us into technology. And I 268 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: go there, I am Nothing makes me more excited than 269 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: speaking to a room of a thousand white men and 270 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: going real deep about feminism and like women in technology. 271 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: Because I can see the snickering, I can see the 272 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: laughing in the beginning, but towards the end, I see 273 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: a shift and and they're thinking in their consciousness. And 274 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: I'm happy I took the effort to have that conversation 275 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: with them, even though I knew when I walked in 276 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: the room we didn't agree. How are you getting to 277 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: that shift, though, because every night of the week, if 278 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: you turn on conservative media, they will tell you there's 279 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: a war on white men in this country, and they 280 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: will tell you everyone from the left running for office 281 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: is an immigrant, lesbian, one legged, anti military, and you 282 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: have millions of people who watched that every night. So 283 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: how do you get that room of white men and 284 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: Asian men who might be saying in the back of 285 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: their heads, my seventeen year old son is never going 286 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: to get into college because suddenly we only want diversity candidates. 287 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: How do you convince those people that giving up a 288 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: bit of their privilege will make the world better. I mean, 289 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: I think the first thing is you have to have 290 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: a conversation about privilege and about power, right, and let's 291 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: be honest about it. When I walk into room and 292 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: we talked about girls. We are taking power away from 293 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: white men and Asian men, and we often don't have 294 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: that conversation in the workplace. So then what happens is 295 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: like in the interview process, all of a sudden, women 296 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: and people of color are not qualified and they don't 297 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: get hired because we really didn't go to the root 298 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: of what the problem was and the root of what 299 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: we're asking people to do. We're asking you to step aside. 300 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: A part of your opportunity to let someone else in, 301 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: and part of your reason why you're there is your 302 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: unearned privilege. Then can't you understand why there are people 303 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: who want to protect their white Of course I do, right. 304 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: The thing that's most important to me, even more important 305 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: than country, is family. And do I think that I 306 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: want to protect my son's over anything? I do. I 307 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: think we say, I understand why you feel that way, 308 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: but to me, it's the longer view, right, And in 309 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: many ways I'm the think of like on my book 310 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: to Are Brave not Perfect, And I part of what 311 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,359 Speaker 1: I say to women's we always put other people before ourselves. 312 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: So they're putting their husband's self interest before their own 313 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: self daughters. But what if they have daughters, right, they're basically, 314 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: quite frankly, screwing their daughters right over what what they 315 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: feel is like in the white male kind of patriarchal interest. 316 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: And we always do that, and that scene is being feminine, 317 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: and that conversation quite frankly needs to shift. But I 318 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: think that most women are making that choice not because 319 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: they deeply want to make it, not because they believe it, 320 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: because that's what they think is right and what they've 321 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: been told. You know, white privileges. Obviously, it's a nasty term. 322 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: No one wants to admit that they have it. No 323 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: one wants to admit I have South Asian women privilege. 324 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: For sure, people think, oh, Rashman, you're Indian, you went 325 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: to Harvard, you know you're smart, You're safe. I can 326 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: trust you. How do you know that? Or they attribute 327 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: you got into those great schools in part what they 328 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: wanted a South Asian woman, or there's a quota for 329 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: too many Asians and so you really must be smart 330 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: if you got it. I acknowledge that every day that 331 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 1: I have I have privileged. I have privileged because of 332 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: my race, because of my gender, uh in that sense, 333 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 1: or actually more because of my ethnicity. I would say 334 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: that my gender, and every day I think about that, 335 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: and I hopefully run my organization a way that acknowledges that, 336 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 1: and I do step aside. It's hard for people to 337 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: say that they have white privilege because they feel guilty 338 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 1: about it, but separately because they also say, I'm struggling 339 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: in my life, freshman, I don't feel privileged. I can't 340 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: pay my bills. So do we need to take away 341 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: the stigma? You need to acknowledge that you have it 342 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: if you're going to solve for it, and right now, 343 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 1: nobody wants to acknowledge that they have it. I generally 344 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: think that shame is not a good thing, you know. 345 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: I generally think that like to not talk about something 346 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: because I don't want you to feel ashamed or bad 347 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: is not a good thing. I think full transparency, openness, 348 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: authenticity about the conversation is the best way to go. 349 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: Just hold on a second, because we have so much 350 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: more to get into. We'll be back right after a 351 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: quick break. Welcome back to modern rules. My next guest 352 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: is an extraordinary man, army veteran, social entrepreneur, Rhodes scholar 353 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: and current CEO of Robin Hood, a foundation fighting poverty 354 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: right here in New York City Westmore. You know, it's 355 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: quite a lot about privilege. He works alongside some of 356 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: the richest people in Manhattan to improve the lives of 357 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: some of the poorest. He was once one of the 358 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 1: poorest right here in New York, so I knew I 359 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: had to bring him into this conversation. Wells, you now 360 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: work with some of the wealthiest people on the planet. Truly, 361 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: uh with the work you do with Robin Hood. In 362 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: the last couple of years, more and more people have 363 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: said philanthropy isn't a good thing. It's the way that 364 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: people who have rigged the system are now paying away 365 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: their guilt, paying for their privilege. They don't have to 366 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: acknowledge it. What do you say to that. I'm actually 367 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: an agreement on the idea that philanthropy should be tested 368 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: and pushed to do more, the idea that philanthropy will 369 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 1: not be enough, that the giving will not be enough, 370 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: that philanthropy must be used and leveraged and pushed to 371 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: be able to actually address the structural challenges that exist. 372 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: Because the reason we have so much an equity, the 373 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: reason we have so much disparity in our society is 374 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: not because philanthropy hasn't done its job. It's because we 375 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: have policies that are actually making that real. We have 376 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: policies that are both putting people and keeping people in poverty. 377 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: Do I think we need to have a very real 378 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: conversation about the way we think about wealth and wealth 379 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: distribution and why currently right now that the average black 380 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: family in this country has one tenth of the wealth 381 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: of the average white family. Yes, we do. And so 382 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: how do we think about this idea looking at sacrifice 383 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,959 Speaker 1: as not something that has to be a well, I 384 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: must lose in order for this person to gain. But 385 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: it's simply saying if I can create space and opportunity 386 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: for other people to be able to gain, to be 387 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: at the table, I actually can gain. Two is that 388 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: what you want people of privilege, is that what you 389 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: want white people to understand, bring another seat to the table. 390 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: You don't have to give yours up. Yes, I want 391 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: people to understand that we don't live in a society 392 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: where it's zero sum. That we don't live in a 393 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: society where in order for this person to gain it 394 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: means I must lose. It means that we have to 395 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: use our privilege. We have to use our voice to 396 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: be able to say we don't have to subscribe to 397 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: these old ways, in these old ways of thinking about 398 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: how the world apportions opportunity. We don't have to be 399 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: miserly or arbitrary when it comes to the way we 400 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: think about who actually gets a seat at the table 401 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: and who actually gets a chance to grow and to thrive. 402 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: Get a bigger table, Get a bigger table, and use 403 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: your privilege to get a bigger table. Use your privilege 404 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: to make sure that there are more people who are 405 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 1: there and involved. You know. But it's not about let 406 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: me give up my seat, but it's about why are 407 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: there's so few seats at this table in the first place. 408 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: Who's pushing that narrative that in order for you to 409 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:17,439 Speaker 1: get an opportunity, I'm going to have to give my 410 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: seat up. Because that narrative is getting louder and louder. 411 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: I think it's fearmongering. It's telling people to be scared 412 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 1: of something and then telling people who's to blame for it. 413 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 1: It's telling the coal miner in West Virginia, the reason 414 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: for your pain is the person coming from Mexico. Right. 415 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: It's telling you know, the mother who feels like, you know, well, 416 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: my son can't get into a good school, and the 417 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: reason is because of that African American kid who the 418 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: school is now giving an unfair advantage to right. And 419 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: none of the stuff is backed up by science. None 420 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: of the stuff is backed up by data. It's fearmongering 421 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: and it's dangerous because they know it motivates people. People 422 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,479 Speaker 1: are motivated by fear. They're motivated by what's scares them. 423 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: They're motivated by what they don't know. And so the 424 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: only way that we can combat that is if you 425 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: increase that level of both proximity and humanity. It's difficult 426 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: to be scared of something that you actually know. It's 427 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: difficult to to to have a prejudice against something about 428 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: something that you actually have an understanding of. It takes 429 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: away the whole definition of prejudice, of prejudging. I can't 430 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: prejudge something that I actually understand. Well, if I had 431 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: to describe there's a lot of ways I would describe you, 432 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: but one of them would be you are very realistic. 433 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: And while I think you might be fundamentally idealistic, you 434 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: don't bring your idealism to the table. You are a 435 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: very realistic man. So when purists would say, don't you 436 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 1: ever accept money for New York City's poorest people from 437 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,679 Speaker 1: somebody who made their money on Wall Street or who 438 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: made their money in the subprime crisis which made people 439 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: lose their homes. Don't you give those people a pass 440 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: for the privilege they have or the money they've made 441 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 1: on people's backs by taking their money to help the poor. 442 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: What you say to those people? Well, first thing I 443 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: said to people is I don't give anybody at pass. 444 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: I'm not built that way. Um. But the second thing 445 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: that I would say is I ask you to walk 446 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: with me for a day. And what would I say? 447 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: Walk with me through the communities that I walked through 448 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: every day. Walk with me into the schools that are 449 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 1: telling our kids everything. And our kids need to know 450 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: about who they are and how our world sees them 451 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: without ever having to say a word to them. We 452 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: send messages to our families and to our children every day. 453 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: By the air we asked them to breathe, by the 454 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: water we asked them to drink, by the schools we 455 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: asked them to go to, by the jobs we asked 456 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: them to take, and by the pay we then pay 457 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: them and then turn around and tell me that you 458 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: know what, West, you shouldn't care about any of that 459 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: because this money is this or this money is that. 460 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 1: And I'll say, listen, I'm fighting this war with every 461 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 1: weapon I've got. Then take me inside that school. I 462 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: think about some of the kids that we have been 463 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: spending a lot of time with in Baltimore recently, and 464 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,959 Speaker 1: there's a phenomenon the ball Tomore is dealing with right 465 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: now called squeegee kids. These are kids who win cars, 466 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: are at red lights, they walk up with bottles of 467 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: windecks and squeegees and they spray windows and ask people 468 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: for change, like in New York in the eighties, exactly 469 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 1: how how New York dealt with And people are saying, 470 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: I can't believe Baltimore still dealing with it, and it's 471 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: it's caused a real level of debate within Baltimore where 472 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 1: people are saying, you know, you've got to get these 473 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: kids off the corners, and they're inconvincing us, and they're 474 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: aggressive and they're begging for money and so on and 475 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: so forth. The thing I want to remind people about 476 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,479 Speaker 1: the young men and young women who are doing this 477 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 1: is this these are kids who are choosing not to 478 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: be cornerboys. They're the ones who were out and selling 479 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: dope and you know, selling drugs on corners, because that 480 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,239 Speaker 1: would be a much easier profession for them to take 481 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,479 Speaker 1: in the city. Like they're choosing not to be trigger polars, 482 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: they're choosing to go up to your car and stand 483 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: in nine degree weather and ask you if they can 484 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: wash your windows for change age, because it's all they've got. 485 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: Many of them are homeless. Many of them are the 486 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: main breadwinners of their family. Simply based on a hundred 487 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: and fifty dollars, maybe they'll make doing that. These are 488 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: kids who the trauma of poverty sits on them every 489 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: single day in such an unfair way. They didn't choose 490 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: this life. They didn't choose to be born into poverty. 491 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: They didn't choose to have opportunities that were nowhere near available. 492 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 1: They're just trying to figure out a way. Until they 493 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: can figure out a way, The thing that I would 494 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: ask people to do is before we are so quick 495 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: to cast judgment, let's better understand the journey and how 496 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: people got there, the reality of what our kids are facing. 497 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: And I say poverty not as an urban phenomenon, but 498 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,959 Speaker 1: it is a rural phenomenon. It is a suburban phenomenon. 499 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: This reality of poverty and neglect that we're asking children 500 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: and family to go through is unbelievably real, and so 501 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 1: be or we just simply castigate or talk about who 502 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: was receiving undeserved, privileged, underserved opportunities. I would just ask 503 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 1: people to take a moment and remember the humanity and 504 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 1: remember the privilege that we all have, the privilege that 505 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: we have to even make a statement like that with 506 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: a straight face. Do you think there are some members 507 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: of society, of American culture that are so privileged that 508 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 1: we're ignoring parts of our society that are suffering and 509 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: where I want to go to here. Only in the 510 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: last couple of years have we heard this pushback about 511 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 1: this idea of being a global citizen. And in the 512 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: last couple of years, more and more people have said 513 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: global citizenship doesn't matter. What's important is to be a 514 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: good American citizen. And that's like kind of gotten political 515 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: in this America first thing. And this gets to this 516 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: not in my backyard idea. So when some of us 517 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: who are in this elite class and we think we 518 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: care so much for others. Are we missing the point? 519 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: Are there people right here in our backyard suffering, who 520 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: are being neglected and somehow we're so privileged we can't 521 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: see beyond our our front door. Yeah, there are people 522 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: all around us who are suffering and challenged and going 523 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,439 Speaker 1: through very real obstacles just to try to make away. 524 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: I will never get to the point that I'm going 525 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: to allow my nationality get in the way of my humanity. 526 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: These are people, these are human beings, these are children, 527 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: And so we have to be able to protect and 528 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: take care of the things that we see right around us. 529 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 1: And we trust me, we have plenty of issues that 530 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: we still have to be much clear and much more 531 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 1: assertive in the way that we think about the things 532 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,640 Speaker 1: that are happening right here in the US, right here 533 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: in our cities and our rural areas and our suburban areas. 534 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: But I Am never going to let that get in 535 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: the way of understanding that just to turn your eye, 536 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: turn your eye against another human being simply because they 537 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: weren't born in the United States, what does that make us? 538 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: Not only that it completely contradicts the whole concept of 539 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: the birthplace of this country, and what this country was 540 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: supposed to stand for. What this country was supposed to mean, 541 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: that it was a place that says give us your week, 542 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: give us you're tired. It didn't say show me your 543 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: w nine. It didn't say tell me about your family 544 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: lineage first. And so I categorically reject this idea that 545 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 1: somehow taking care of people somehow means it's neglecting the 546 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: ones who are closest to you. The poverty in this 547 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: country is a choice. We've made this choice because I 548 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: think as a country, we strive when this concept of excellence, 549 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: We strive when this concept of winning without understanding that 550 00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: there are consequences to everything that we do. We have 551 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: this idea, and we have this belief and when you 552 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: look at the history of this country that the history 553 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: of this country is that we have amassed an extraordinary 554 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: amount of wealth and power and then remarkably short period 555 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: of time and context of world history, we also have 556 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: to be honest as a country about how we've amassed it, 557 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: and the fact that we've created a lot of losers 558 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: in the process, people who were not acknowledged, people who 559 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: we have used in that process and not given any 560 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: real sense of opportunity or platform without simply looking at 561 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: it as a pittance, where when we look to support 562 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: those who are the most vulnerable, we call it a program, 563 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: even though when you look at so many of the 564 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: systems that we have in place that have benefited the 565 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: most privileged, we call it a system. That's the way 566 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: this country has a portioned opportunity. Oftentimes. The thing that 567 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,959 Speaker 1: we want to be and I insists that we are 568 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: as a nation thoughtful love is the fact that we 569 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: don't have a fair playing field right now. We don't. 570 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: And what breaks my heart about that is that it 571 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be that way if you look at 572 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: it on a proportional level. Are they gonna be certain 573 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: people that might benefit more because they're coming from such 574 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: a massive deficit. Yes, And I'm fine with that. We 575 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: have enough wealth and resources and creativity here that you 576 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: can have a system where we can actually fundamentally address 577 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: things like dire chronic poverty, generational poverty. We can address this. 578 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: We can do this, and we can do it in 579 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: a way that people who have opportunities and privileged right 580 00:30:54,600 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: now won't feel nor need to feel threatened. Are you optimistic? Very? Why? 581 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: I'm optimistic because I spend time with people every day 582 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: who motivate me. I spend time with people every day 583 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: who all the other political talk in this not They're 584 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: not bothered nor moved by. They get up with a 585 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,719 Speaker 1: fundamental mission to take care of their family and take 586 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: are their neighborhoods. And that's exactly what they do. So 587 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: right there. Do you think we've seen a rise in 588 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: hate crimes in the last few years. We hear more 589 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: about these rants and these incidents, But do you think 590 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: that a huge portion of our population or growing portion, 591 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: is rooted in hate or is it about hopelessness? Because 592 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: if it's hopelessness, we could change that. Yeah. I think 593 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: it's rooted in fear. And I think the fear is 594 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: what is in driving all of this. It's a fear 595 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: that I am somehow losing something. It's a fear that 596 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: somehow I will be on the short end of whatever 597 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: type of progress and momentum is seen. And so fear 598 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: will drive people to do a lot of things. So 599 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: what's the counter to it? Love? I think the counter 600 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: to it is love, and I think the counter to 601 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: it also is opportunity. If you show people that there's 602 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: a real opportunity, if you show people that you don't 603 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: have to there is something worth sacrificing for. I think 604 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: that actually counters the fear argument. So is your message 605 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: help us create opportunity equality? Because the way you're framing 606 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: it to me, I hear Goldman Sacks, don't take away 607 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: any jobs from anybody who's qualified. Add ten more you 608 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: can afford to Harvard, you've got an unlimited endowment. Build 609 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: another building at another hundred kids. Is that your answer? 610 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: And also, how are we thinking about the portioning of 611 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: opportunity in a fair way? Right, So it's not just 612 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: about asking ex corporation to at him or or asking 613 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: Harvard to add another building. It's about having the conversation 614 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: with Harvard and saying, what's your responsibility to the HBCUs 615 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: and to the community colleges. You know what's your responsibility. 616 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: It means that we have institutions that have historically been 617 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: chronic winners in our society, and they've also educated such 618 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: a small portion of our society. So, for example, when 619 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: you think about the best schools in the country, and 620 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: I know investment banking the best, I'll say it that way. 621 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: Investment banks have relationships with five schools, right, five of 622 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: the top top schools and everybody else the resume ends 623 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: up in the non target school pile. I know it. 624 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: I used to run non target school recruiting. Right, that's 625 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: a waste land. And maybe somebody wins a lottery ticket 626 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: and they get pulled out. Are you saying to me, Harvard, 627 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: Duke Penn and those companies need to say, hold back 628 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: a second, Harvard, what are you doing to help the 629 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: career services department at a historically black college because they 630 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: don't have the history, or the infrastructure or the relationships 631 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: with companies to give any of those kids opportunities. So 632 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: what are what you talking about is saying the most 633 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: privileged institutions, whether they're companies or schools, they need to 634 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 1: check that privilege and saying how do I pay this forward? 635 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: And if that's what you're doing, the summer internship is 636 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: your gateway to get a full time job. So if 637 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: you can't get on that program, you're about to sit 638 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: there in debt with no job opportunity. If I have 639 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: extra hours, I don't have an opportunity to go get 640 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: an internship. I need to go get more hours at 641 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: the wind Dixie or I need to go get more 642 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: hours at the Walmart, or I need to go get 643 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: a second job at Papa John's. That's but then to 644 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 1: that point right there west, all of these great companies 645 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,439 Speaker 1: and these internship opportunities, those internships don't pay any money, 646 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,320 Speaker 1: or they pay such a little amount of money that 647 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: that kids who need to support themselves can't ever get 648 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: those jobs. Is that what we need to address? Yes, 649 00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: And I think so we have to think more creative 650 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: about the way we are truly supporting the future of 651 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: this country than just simply saying, well, I'm going to 652 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: add an internship program here, or I'm going to recruit 653 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: from this new school in a different way there. I 654 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: think these large organizations, these large corporations, uh, these large 655 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: institutions of higher education, they have an obligation not just 656 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: to build up their own personal endowments, they have an 657 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: obligation to be able to say, what am I doing 658 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: to support the other institutions inside of my area, inside 659 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: of my jurisdiction, to make sure that they can fundamentally 660 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: support and serve the other students who might not make 661 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: it into my university, but I know who are just 662 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: as important to the future of my community as the 663 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: kids who are walking onto my right there. What you're 664 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: talking about is not philanthropy or charity. That is making 665 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: a strategic move to make your community, your city, your 666 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: company a stronger, better, smarter place. We need to move 667 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: from charity to justice. Ah, good answer, that's what this is. 668 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: I don't believe in charity. I believe in justice, and 669 00:35:58,320 --> 00:35:59,879 Speaker 1: so I think that the way we have to view 670 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: all of this work is you know, we can have 671 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 1: a philanthropic wing, a philanthropic angle to our work, but 672 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,800 Speaker 1: I don't see robin Hood as a charity, as a 673 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: public charity. Robin Hood is a social justice organization. What 674 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 1: it is is understanding the situation that exists right now 675 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: has historical context and historical underpinnings. You know, we don't 676 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: have the levels of disparity that we have in our 677 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 1: country right now by accident. This is a deliberate frame 678 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 1: that has been hardened over years, and so this is 679 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: not about taking a blame. I don't believe in the 680 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: idea of taking a blame because I think that doesn't 681 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: actually get us anywhere. What I do believe is we 682 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 1: have to address the current existence, and that has to 683 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: be done with a historical context because we are not 684 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: where we are simply because we just fell into it. 685 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: We are where we are because there have been historical laws, 686 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,800 Speaker 1: historical policies that have helped to get us here. Do 687 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 1: you take a city like my owntown of Baltimore. You 688 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: can't understand the structural deficits and the inequity that exists 689 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: within Baltimore without understanding the history of redlining, without understanding 690 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,760 Speaker 1: the history of blockbusting, without understanding the history of predatory lending, 691 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,319 Speaker 1: without understanding the history of banks deciding who they will 692 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: and won't lend to, which entrepreneurs are and are not 693 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: worth the investment. Before I joined Robin Hood, I was 694 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: critical of philanthropy and and and I still am in 695 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: the historical sense of what philanthropy is or what philanthropy 696 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 1: has always been interpreted as. Right, this idea of yes, 697 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 1: I can write a check and somehow that's going to 698 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 1: be enough. The thing and why I'm so proud to 699 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: lead this organization now is this is an organization that understands, yes, 700 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: that's not going to be enough. We have to address structure. 701 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 1: We have to address the fact that you know you 702 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: can put you all the money into affordable housing or 703 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 1: whatever that you want. But the reality is this, if 704 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: we don't also reinforce and fight and advocate for a 705 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: right to counsel, because one of the fastest growing reasons 706 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: and one of the largest reason why people end up 707 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: homeless is because they are in homes and they are 708 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: being evicted because you have landlords who have an incentive 709 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: to be able to kick them out because then you 710 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: can raise your rent up to market value rates. So 711 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 1: we have to be able to establish that people have 712 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: a fundamental right to counsel because we have to do 713 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,319 Speaker 1: everything that we can do from keeping people from getting 714 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: evicted from their homes. If we don't understand that a 715 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,359 Speaker 1: person is coming back from prison and a person who 716 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: has paid their debt when they come back home, we 717 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 1: can say, yes, you know, we wish you the best 718 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: to luck. But by the way, you can't live in 719 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,879 Speaker 1: public housing, you know, even if your family is there. 720 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: Or you can apply to colleges, but remember you can't 721 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: get pell grants. And so we continue to have asterix 722 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,879 Speaker 1: next to people's names. So the reality is that every 723 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,359 Speaker 1: sentence ends up becoming a life sentence. That's not something 724 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:53,399 Speaker 1: that philanthropy can fix. Philanthropy's job public charity's job, Robin 725 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: Hood's job is to not just use our capital to 726 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: be able to address a very human pain that exists 727 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 1: right now, but is to use our capital to make 728 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: sure we don't have to have people that have to 729 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: have human pain in the first place. So here's what 730 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: I've heard. Privilege exists, but a lot of people struggle 731 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,319 Speaker 1: to recognize or acknowledge it in themselves. It makes us 732 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: very defensive. And here's the thing. If you want to 733 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: address inequality, it is not about giving something up. It's 734 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:26,399 Speaker 1: about democratizing opportunity. If we've got privilege and we say 735 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: we care about equality, this idea that we may have 736 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 1: to give something up to give someone else a chance. 737 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:36,440 Speaker 1: It's not about giving your seat up at the table 738 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: for someone else. It's saying, let's buy a bigger table, 739 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 1: let's make more room. Privilege comes in many shapes and sizes. 740 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: I started my career in the old boys network of 741 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: Wall Street, and although I lacked the obvious privilege of 742 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 1: guys like my husband, I realize, yes, he may have 743 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,239 Speaker 1: had a leg up, but I was still in the room. 744 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,239 Speaker 1: It's about saying, let me acknowledge what I have, let 745 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 1: me understand someone else's position, and let me say, is 746 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 1: there a way more of us can rise together? And 747 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 1: at least acknowledging it is the first step toward figuring 748 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 1: out my own privilege. So what am I gonna do? 749 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep having conversations just like this. This has 750 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,799 Speaker 1: been our conversation on privilege. Thanks for listening, bringing an 751 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 1: open mind, and helping me create the Modern Rules. I 752 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,800 Speaker 1: want more of this conversation. Go deeper and read this 753 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,279 Speaker 1: week's Modern Rules feature only on NBC news dot Com 754 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: Slash Better. Yeah, that's it for today's episode. I'm your host, 755 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,320 Speaker 1: Stephanie Rule. A very, very special thanks to the extraordinary 756 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: people who made this happen. My producers Julie Brown, Samantha 757 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 1: Eullen and An Bark Audio, Michael Byett for book king 758 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: and wrangling, the amazing guests who joined us, Julian Weller 759 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,840 Speaker 1: for editing and bill plaques, Michael Azar and Jacobo Penzo 760 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 1: for their recording expertise. Special thanks to Steve lick Tag, 761 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: Barbara Rab, Jonathan Wald, Marie Dugo, Holly traz Nikki Etre 762 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: and Christina Everett are Executive producers are Conald Byrne and 763 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,439 Speaker 1: Mangesh Hatiga Door, and of course the men who brought 764 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: us all together, Chairman and CEO of I Heart Media 765 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 1: Bob Pittman and Chairman of NBC News Andy Left. For 766 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,839 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart 767 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,840 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your 768 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: favorite shows,