1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Oh, fellow Ridiculous Historians, friends and neighbors. I don't know 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: about you all, but this is one of my, uh, 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: maybe not favorite of our classic episodes, but it's one 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: that really stuck with me as a word nerd. 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 2: It's a bit of a pet subject for you, Ben, wordery, etymology, oh, 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 2: wordsmith ory. 7 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: So say, we all KNOWL I know, we're both. We're 8 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 1: both big fans of reference works, etymology, weird word facts, 9 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: and the last word in uh. I heard it in 10 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 1: dictionaries here in uh. This language is the Oxford English Dictionary. 11 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 2: We like to call it the Oxford English Dictionary. 12 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: Yeah, we or the OED if nasty. But the thing is, 13 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: we started looking into the origin story here and we 14 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: found something that was just a roller coaster. Man. 15 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're a coaster and an etymology fan and 16 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 2: perhaps a bit of a wordsmith yourself, you're going to 17 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,559 Speaker 2: really dig this one on the bizarre origin of the 18 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: OED aka the Oxford English Dictionary. 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. We're here, we're live, well, 20 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,839 Speaker 1: we're recording this live. Welcome to the show Ridiculous Historians. 21 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: My name is Ben. We are of course joined with 22 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: our super producer Casey pegram My Trusty co host Noel 23 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: is off on some lovely adventures on the other side 24 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: of the country, but will return very soon. Speaking of returning, 25 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: we are incredibly fortunate today to have our returning guest 26 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 1: host joining us, Christopher Hasiotis. 27 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,119 Speaker 3: Thanks for coming, Man, Thanks for having me, Ben, thanks 28 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 3: for having me, Casey, Noel, wherever you are, whenever you are, 29 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 3: however you are, thank you. 30 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: Yes, oh man, I can't wait until I hope we 31 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: can reveal some of the cool stuff that Nol is 32 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: working on. 33 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 3: But what I really wish we're happening right now is 34 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 3: that we would talk about Nol not being here and 35 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 3: then anyone listening to this podcast would just slowly turn 36 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 3: around and he's standing right behind them. 37 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: Oh that's great. 38 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 3: No, that's my dream. It's my dream. But it was 39 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 3: also it was Halloween recently, so maybe I'm still in 40 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 3: that mindset. I'm definitely still in that mindset. 41 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: Oh man, It's the most wonderful time of the year. 42 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: I love Halloween. Hey, what did you do for Halloween? 43 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 3: Dressed up as a woodland creature? I was kind of 44 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 3: Wolfe took the family around the neighborhood and did not 45 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 3: accept any candy because we've got a little baby who's 46 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 3: not old enough for candy yet. And I would feel 47 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 3: like a real bomb taking candy from the well, you know, 48 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 3: taking candy for a baby who couldn't eat it, under 49 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 3: the pretenses that it's really for me. And I'm grown man, 50 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 3: I can afford my own candy. 51 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: There you go. That's that speaks highly. That speaks to 52 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: your character in a very complimentary way. We'll see your 53 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: candy ethics are on point. I think that's something to 54 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: be proud of. 55 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 3: Thank you. 56 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: I would have done the opposite. 57 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 3: You would have just taken a baby around. Yes, yeah, 58 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 3: I did think, like maybe it would be fun to 59 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 3: push a stroller around the neighborhood, but with no baby 60 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 3: in there, and just be the person with an empty stroller. 61 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: Oh that's weird. That's weird, Christopher. 62 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 3: But uh, it's not Halloween anymore, right, we should divest 63 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 3: these spooky thoughts from our souls. 64 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: Hey, I'm always so reluctant to give up the ghost 65 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: of Halloween. But you're right. Things move on progress. That's 66 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: the name of the game for the human spece, hopefully 67 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: in theory and Today's episode is something that I thought 68 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: would be fascinating for anybody who's a fan of words, 69 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: anyone who's a fan of writing. Today's episode is about 70 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: the strange origin of the Oxford English Dictionary. Now, this 71 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: is something that you and I in particular, have have 72 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: used pretty frequently over the years. 73 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 3: I have, Yeah, dictionaries of many kinds I think come 74 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 3: in super handy. Whether you're a professional writer, whether you're 75 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 3: an amateur writer, whether you don't really care about writing 76 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 3: at all, but you want to know what a word means, 77 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 3: you can look it up in the dictionary. It's a 78 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 3: great thing. 79 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's funny that you mentioned this because Noel 80 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: and I will often have conversations where one of us 81 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: is on a rant about something and then we decide 82 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: to use a word because it sounds particularly enticing, you know, 83 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: only to later, usually when it's just the two of 84 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: us hanging out, only for us to later go, Okay, 85 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: one of us needs to look that up and make 86 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: sure it means what we think it means. 87 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 3: We're using the right meaning where you were saying it properly. 88 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 3: I mean, that's what the dictionary is for. But also 89 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 3: that's what Facebook is for too right and social media. 90 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 3: I think anyone who is anyone in the podcast world's 91 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 3: very familiar with mispronounced words. There's a lot of words 92 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 3: out there, and you might accidentally say something a little incorrectly. 93 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 3: But we rely on people like Ridiculous Historians the Facebook 94 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 3: group associated with this fine podcast to point out in 95 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 3: a constructive and critical manner, any foible, any misstep, any 96 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 3: misuse of a ward. 97 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: Aw. Oh man, you really put us on the tightrope here, man. 98 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: All right, well, let's give it a go. The Oxford 99 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: English Dictionary has been around for a long time, but 100 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: perhaps not as long as many of us would assume. 101 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: The work on the dictionary began, I guess in a 102 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: larger historical context is fairly recent. It began in eighteen 103 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: fifty seven. 104 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's when there was a call put out 105 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 3: for a collection of words, a definition of words spanning 106 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 3: the twelfth century to the present day. At the time. 107 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 3: Work actually didn't get underway though, until the late eighteen 108 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,679 Speaker 3: seventies eighteen seventy nine, I believe, And it took five 109 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 3: years for the first volume of the OED, as the 110 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 3: kids on the street call it to be published. 111 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: Right right, and here we introduce our first character for 112 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: this story, a fellow named Professor James Murray. It was 113 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: a challenging assignment for Murray, who was the editor of 114 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: this of this dictionary. The way the process worked was 115 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: relatively simple. People would send in entries for words, and 116 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: the Oxford English Dictionary functions as what's called an historical dictionary, 117 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: meaning it will talk about the development of a word 118 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: rather than just its present day usage. So you'll see 119 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: a little bit of etymology in the dictionary. 120 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 3: You'll see a lot of etymology. I mean, the thing 121 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 3: about the Oxford English Dictionary is it doesn't just give 122 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 3: you the definition of the word, right, it goes into 123 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 3: the history of the word. We said, the first volume 124 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 3: of the dictionary wasn't published until eighteen eighty four. I mean, 125 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 3: this was a lifelong pursuit from Murray and his team. 126 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 3: The final volume of the dictionary wasn't published until nineteen 127 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 3: twenty eight. That's crazy. 128 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's insane. And it took a lot of blood, 129 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: sweat and tears, because we have to remember it was 130 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: much more difficult to aggregate information back then, you know 131 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: what I mean. These people had to literally write this 132 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: stuff out, usually by hand and send it be a post. 133 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, a majority of us in the modern world, and 134 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 3: I would assume most of us listening to this podcast. 135 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 3: We live in a wealth of information. We have so 136 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 3: many things available to us, We have so much knowledge 137 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 3: available to us. But I think it's really, really, really 138 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 3: easy to take that for granted. Right, you just look 139 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 3: something up. But for you to look something up, another 140 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 3: human being had to have put that thing in a 141 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 3: place for it to be searchable in the first place. So, 142 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 3: I mean, imagine the task of speaking a language and thinking, 143 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 3: you know what, all these words we just said in 144 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 3: the past twenty seconds, I just used forty of them. 145 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 3: Let's catalog them, let's itemize them, let's label them. I mean, 146 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 3: this is it's a crazy undertaking. It's wild. You have 147 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 3: to define what a language is, what is inside the language, 148 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 3: what's outside the language. You have to talk to linguistics, 149 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 3: you have to talk to anthropologists, you have to talk 150 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 3: to authors and books and what's gobbledegook? Right, which is 151 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:54,559 Speaker 3: that in the dictionary? I don't know. 152 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,599 Speaker 1: I believe the actually it is in there, isn't it? Yeah, 153 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: So that I think that's a very good way to 154 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: paint the picture here. Professor James Murray knew this was 155 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: going to be a huge, laborious, herculean effort. However, he 156 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: underestimated the enormity of the task. When they first agreed 157 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: to edit this new English dictionary, they thought, this is 158 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: going to take a decade, and this will probably be gosh, 159 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: I don't know, guys, around seven thousand pages long in 160 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: four volumes. Let's call it four volumes. But they ended 161 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: up with something much much larger. By the time the 162 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: final results are published in nineteen twenty eight, it's twelve 163 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: volumes long. It is comprised of four hundred and fourteen 164 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: eight hundred and twenty five words defined, and it has 165 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: almost two million citations employed to illustrate what they mean. 166 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: As Murray is working on this, he builds a corrugated 167 00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 1: iron shed that he decides to call the Scriptorium, and 168 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: the Scriptorium houses him and his small team of assistants, 169 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: as well as this deluge of slips of paper that 170 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: have been mailed to them that are each you know, 171 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 1: an entry in the dictionary. 172 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is all taking place in the UK, 173 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 3: So this is just one country, you know, right, This 174 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 3: is this isn't even trying to get the breadth of 175 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 3: global knowledge. I do really like the name scriptorium. I 176 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 3: imagine Murray having a rough day at home, maybe the 177 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 3: kids are being kind of a pain, and he storms 178 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 3: out of his house, slams the door, say I'm going 179 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 3: to the Scriptorium. I can't handle this. To the scriptorium, 180 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 3: to the Scriptorium. 181 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: I am just going to start saying that I am 182 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: going to find something to our office. I'm going to 183 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: label it the scriptorium. It won't be this studio that's 184 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: two on the nose, but I'm looking for his scriptorium. 185 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 3: Next time you shout, I'm off to the scriptorium. I'm 186 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 3: really excited to see all of our coworkers look around 187 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 3: bemusedly and confusedly and befuddledly. And but you and I 188 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 3: will share something. I'll know what you're doing. 189 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: And you for listening in casey or you and this, 190 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: I'm totally in casey on the case, ladies and gentlemen. 191 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: So as as people are responding to this call, this 192 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: crowdsourcing of dictionary entries, Professor Murray begins to notice that 193 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: there's one shining star out of all of his correspondents, 194 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: the most prolific. The most consistent correspondent, the man who 195 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: was sent in more than ten thousand entries to this 196 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: developing dictionary a guy named doctor William C. Minor. All 197 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: that Murray knows about Minor is that he is a 198 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: doctor who is a surgeon. He lives in Crowthorne, in 199 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: the English countryside in Berkshire, and Murray reasonably assumes that 200 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: Minor must be quote a practicing medical man of literary 201 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: taste with a good deal of leto lethio. 202 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 3: I like, yeah, sounds like the kind of guy who 203 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 3: would send in entries to the dictionary the Dictionary Project. 204 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 3: Did they call it the Dictionary Project at the time? 205 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 3: I think they did. I mean, dictionaries existed before the OED, 206 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 3: so I think the word probably was out there. 207 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: And here's here's where we introduce our second character. Uh, 208 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: doctor William Chester Minor an American. 209 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so you've got this American guy who's contributing 210 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 3: to one of the pillars of the English language. What 211 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 3: do we know about doctor Minor. 212 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: Well, we know that, as you said, he does reside 213 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 1: in the UK. He was an American, not only an American, 214 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,719 Speaker 1: but a surgeon. Not only a surgeon, but a veteran. 215 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 3: A veteran, but he also had sort of a global background, right, 216 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 3: so he existed in a world where many languages were 217 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 3: available to him. His parents were from New England. They 218 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 3: were missionaries, and Minor was actually born in Ceylon, which 219 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 3: today is known as Sri Lanka. So he grew up 220 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 3: in the son of the son of Americans in a 221 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 3: former British colony. A lot of languages are kind of 222 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 3: swirling around him. He's in that miliu. He comes back 223 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 3: to the US and he ends up fighting in the 224 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 3: Civil War. M hm. He's fighting, but he's working as 225 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 3: a surgeon, right, So he's a he's a medical doctor. 226 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 3: He's in the Civil War. He experiences some horrific things, 227 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 3: as many people did, but it seems to have really 228 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 3: taken a toll on doctor Minor, on his mental health, 229 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 3: on his well being. Really rough stuff. I mean, he 230 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 3: was in situations where he saw sort of incendiary attacks. 231 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 3: He witnessed other soldiers burning to death. Yeah, this is terrible, Ben, 232 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 3: I don't know if you know about this, but what 233 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 3: doctor Minor was ordered to do to a certain deserter. 234 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it's it's a terrible story. So he served, 235 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: as you said, in various incredibly bloody conflicts, including the 236 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: Battle of the Wilderness in eighteen sixty four, which was 237 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: a bloodbath. The particular story we're talking about now concerns 238 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: an Irish soldier in the Union Army. Minor was told 239 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: to punish the soldier carry out his punishment by branding 240 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: him on the face with a hot iron with a 241 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: capital D for deserter. 242 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. So this was an Irish citizen who is fighting 243 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 3: for the cause of the Union, but decided he was 244 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 3: done with the battle, wanted to leave, wanted to leave 245 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 3: the army, was i asseemed captured, put in the brig 246 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 3: and Minor was ordered to brand this guy against his wishes, 247 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 3: against the wishes of both of them, I think. 248 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: And this haunts him, This affects him for the rest 249 00:14:53,320 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: of his life. At the end of the American Civil War, 250 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: he is still serving. He's in New York City for 251 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: a time. He spends a lot of his time living 252 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: in the CD underbelly of New York. If he's not working, 253 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: he's off in the Red Light District cavorting, having some 254 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: frolic time, right. 255 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 3: I mean, it's not uncommon for soldiers who come home 256 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 3: from war, to have a really rough time, to look 257 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 3: for solace in places they might not otherwise have in 258 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 3: the past, to have a hard time keeping things together, 259 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 3: to undertake risky activity, to i mean even to see 260 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 3: things that aren't there, to imagine a reality that doesn't 261 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 3: line up with the reality experience by the majority of us. 262 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:50,239 Speaker 1: Absolutely, And by eighteen sixty seven, the Army is completely 263 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: done with his behavior. They find that it is unethical 264 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: and a moral so they transfer him to a remote 265 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: post and Florida, And we're gonna let's let's pause right there, 266 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: because Professor Murray doesn't know any of this. He doesn't 267 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: know anything about Minor's past. He only knows that the 268 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: guy has medical knowledge, seems to be living in either 269 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: retirement or he's relatively well off, and the guy has 270 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: a lot of time on his hands, and he loves words. 271 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's that's a little background about Minor and 272 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 3: and Minor is sending in these entries to the Oxford 273 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 3: English Dictionary Project to Professor Murray, and they seem to 274 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 3: be really great entries. They're really detailed, they're really varied, 275 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 3: they are voluminous, they are deeply researched. 276 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: What Professor Murray did not know was that his most 277 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: faithful correspondent and contributor was writing to him from a 278 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: lunatic asylum where he was confined for committing homicide. 279 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. 280 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's the that's the strangest part of it, 281 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: And it sounds like something you could maybe have a weird, 282 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: nervous laugh about. But the story itself is quite tragic. 283 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: It turns out that doctor Minor was not in full 284 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 1: possession of his faculties. 285 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, and at this point he had moved to London. 286 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: Right right, Okay, So he was diagnosed in eighteen sixty 287 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: eight as delusional and he was considered a suicide and 288 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: homicide risk. So with his consent, he was admitted to 289 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: the Government Hospital for the Insane and Washing DC and 290 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: officially retired from the US Army. In eighteen seventy one, 291 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: he was released and he visited his family and friends 292 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,239 Speaker 1: and then bordered a ship to London, hoping that a 293 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: change of scenery would quote cure him. But his paranoia 294 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 1: followed him across. 295 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 3: The Atlanta And that's a not uncommon treatment at the time. 296 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 3: I mean, we're back in the days before modern psychology, 297 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 3: certainly before modern psychiatric drugs and any sort of treatment 298 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 3: talked therapy, any sort of rehabilitation like that. I mean, 299 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 3: there's just a lunatic asylum or a change of scenery. 300 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 3: You know, maybe something different will be nice for him. 301 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 3: Maybe being in the United States is reminding him of 302 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 3: the horrors he witnessed. Maybe he's too close to the brothels. 303 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 3: Let's just let's send him to England. 304 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and his family had the means to support this 305 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 1: travel because it was an opportunity that many people at 306 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: the time could not have reasonably pursued. But the problem 307 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:40,479 Speaker 1: was that his untreated mental condition began to worsen. He 308 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 1: was having delusions, he was having crazy mood swings, and 309 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: he was sinking deeper and deeper into paranoia. Particularly as 310 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:52,719 Speaker 1: his condition escalated, he would become more and more fixated 311 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: on paranoid thoughts about people with Irish nationality due to 312 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: that horrible story you mentioned earlier when he had to 313 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: brand Guy in the face. He settles originally in a 314 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: place called Lambeth. 315 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, and Lambeth Street is It's in London. It's kind 316 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 3: of a city neighborhood. And this, I think is the 317 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 3: point when we should introduce the next character in this tale, 318 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 3: this tragedy, if we want to call it a tragedy, 319 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,360 Speaker 3: we're not the only ones, because this is what ends 320 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 3: up being called at the time, the Lambeth tragedy. George 321 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 3: Merritt is the next entry into this tale. George Merritt 322 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 3: is a working man. He takes a walk every day 323 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 3: to the Red Lion Brewery in London. And one day 324 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 3: he's taking a walk and he encounters doctor Minor. 325 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: And Doctor Miner, who is in the grips of a 326 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: mental episode, feels threatened right by George Merritt believes that 327 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: Merritt has broken into his room at some point and 328 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: shoots and kills George. 329 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is this is where I you know, 330 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 3: I tried to find some newspaper reports from the time 331 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 3: and it's really unclear to me, and I think this 332 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 3: is just the case in reporting at the time. But 333 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 3: I don't know exactly whether Merritt was trying to enter 334 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 3: a door near where Minor was living, or if this 335 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 3: happened near the brewery or well. So the records show 336 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 3: that Merritt was shot in the back as he was 337 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 3: walking away from Minor, right, so Minor perhaps was in 338 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 3: his home experiencing one of these delusions and just burst 339 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 3: out onto the street and thought that the first person 340 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 3: he saw was the imagined culprit. 341 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: And of course the authorities become involved. There is a trial, 342 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: and during the trial the full extent of Minor's insanity 343 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: becomes revealed for the first time in public, and that's 344 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 1: part of what propels the Lambeth tragedy to the stage 345 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: of international news. Minor is eventually judged not guilty on 346 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: ground zones of insanity, and he is sent to be 347 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 1: detained in England's newest asylum, but they don't ever say 348 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,120 Speaker 1: how long he's going to be there. 349 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 3: I think this is the sort of thing where, you know, 350 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 3: on the one hand, you can see this as a 351 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 3: unenlightened treatment. You know, he's not just put to death 352 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 3: for murder. You know, it seems like they're doing the 353 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 3: nice thing. They're sending him off to a place where 354 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 3: he can be away from people he might harm. But 355 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 3: there's an understanding that there's something not chemically operating in 356 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 3: the mind. It's maybe not entirely his fault, right, So 357 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 3: he's sent to Broad Moore, which is a place for 358 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 3: the criminally insane that sounds like a nice thing, but 359 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 3: the conditions weren't amazing. And people at the time, you know, 360 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 3: it's not like they were called patients. They weren't treated 361 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 3: as folks with a medical issue. These the people at Broadmore, 362 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 3: were referred to as criminals or as lunatics. Basically, you're 363 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 3: looking at it situation where you're put in a room, 364 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 3: the door is locked, and there's not a lot of treatment. 365 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 3: You're just removed from society. Minor did have his own cell, 366 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 3: and Minor actually had a second cell, right, so he 367 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 3: had two adjoining cells, the second of which was used 368 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 3: for his significantly voluminous collection of antiquarian books. 369 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 1: That's right. He was living the high life, well compared 370 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: to other inmates or other patients. But they didn't call 371 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: him patients. They call them lunatics and criminals, right, Yeah, 372 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 1: So he had this extensive collection of books. He was 373 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: very well read person, and the American Vice Consul General 374 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: directly intervened to allow doctor Minor to have these amenities. 375 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 3: Right. Although he's in England and he had committed his 376 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 3: crime there, he's still a US citizen and a veteran 377 00:22:55,440 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 3: of the Union Army, so there's some consideration being given. 378 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: And he has correspondence as well. The entire time. He 379 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: has relationships with book dealers, booksellers in Oxford in particular, 380 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: and it is through this association that he hears about 381 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: the open call for submissions to what will become the 382 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: Oxford English Dictionary. And so a lot of this has 383 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:29,959 Speaker 1: lost to history, but we can reasonably imagine what doctor 384 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: Miner's reaction was. It's not like he's gonna go travel anywhere. 385 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: It's not like he is living a super stressful life 386 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: full of deadlines. As recounted in a fantastic book called 387 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: The Professor and the Madman, A Tale of Murder Insanity 388 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 1: in the Making of the Oxford English Dictionary by Simon Winchester, and. 389 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 3: That came out in nineteen ninety eight. 390 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: Yes, that is correct. As recounted in this book, Minor 391 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: saw this as somewhat of an escape, you know what 392 00:23:58,600 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: I mean. 393 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 3: It's a way, it's a way to his body, maybe 394 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 3: in these four walls, but it's a way for him 395 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 3: to send his thoughts and his influence beyond his cell. 396 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: Absolutely, and it's a necessary escape, right. But he knew, 397 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: regardless of his stability at the time, he knew that 398 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: his submissions might run the chance of being rejected. Essentially, 399 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: he might not be able to play the game if 400 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: he revealed too much about himself. So he always signed 401 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: his letters the same way Broadmoor, Crowthorne, Berkshire. And that 402 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 1: means his identity remained enigmatic to everybody who's working on 403 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: the dictionary for years and years and years. Murray and 404 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: Minor never meet. 405 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 3: No And at this point he kind of builds up 406 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 3: his own reputation, not based on who he is, not 407 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 3: based on the letters after his name. If he's a 408 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 3: you know, you don't have this weight of authority from 409 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 3: your job, from your name, from your class. This authority 410 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 3: that he gains with the OED project is based solely 411 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 3: on his work and through these submissions, I mean they 412 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 3: prove invaluable because he's got this collection of antiquarian books, 413 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,199 Speaker 3: books that are out of print, books that are ancient, 414 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 3: books that are not widely used. So he's combing through 415 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 3: these books, he comes up with this massive index of 416 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 3: thousands of words. He defines them, he provides their use 417 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,479 Speaker 3: in a sentence, which you know sounds like a spelling 418 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 3: be kind of thing, right, But that's how you know 419 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 3: what a word is, and the way you define a 420 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 3: word is to see how it's used. And if you 421 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 3: want to look at a word that you don't know 422 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 3: or that other people don't know, you have to show 423 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 3: how it has been used in the past. And that's 424 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 3: where his collection of books comes in, super handy. 425 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, and eventually you'll hear a couple of different counts 426 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: of this. But eventually Murray decides that he has to 427 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: meet his most valuable contributor. And this comes to a 428 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: head in eighteen ninety seven. There's an event they're gonna 429 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: hold called the Great Dictionary Dinner, and Murray is very 430 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: much looking forward to meeting his mysterious again, most prolific, 431 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: most accurate correspondent. But the guy doesn't show up. 432 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. So, I mean they've been working on this dictionary, 433 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 3: they put all this work into it, They have all 434 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,959 Speaker 3: these different contributors, they have people they rely on greatly. 435 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 3: I mean think of this as the you know on Wikipedia, 436 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 3: the people who have the verified accounts yelp, the super 437 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 3: or whatever yelp or you know, like he's one of 438 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,880 Speaker 3: the insiders. And he's invited, we're told, and he doesn't 439 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 3: show up. 440 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: Right, And so Minor says you know what, I'm going 441 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: to be the change. I'm going to go visit this guy. 442 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: So he travels to broad More and he sees this. 443 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: We can paint the scene here. He sees this huge 444 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: Victorian mansion, and he's justifying those assumptions, right, they feel 445 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: like they're being very I was just okay. 446 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,479 Speaker 3: Well yeah, I mean he'd never been there. The story 447 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 3: goes that he thought, so he had this address, and 448 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 3: so he thinks like, okay, like this must be where 449 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 3: a professor lives or a doctor, a medical man. Yeah, 450 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 3: a nice house. So he shows up and he sees 451 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 3: this massive institution. He says, huh, I thought I was 452 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 3: going to someone's house. This is an institution. 453 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: I guess he's mailing me from his office. 454 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's probably the director or something like that. 455 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: Right, So he so he started to realize things are 456 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: a little wonky, and he's just finding the most plausible 457 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: explanation he can for it. And like you say, Christopher, 458 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 1: he thinks, okay, well, this guy is a director of 459 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 1: this asylum. Because you could see the side. He knows 460 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: it's an asylum. 461 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 3: No, yeah, and you know it may even have lightning 462 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 3: bolts in the background or that's how I imagine that 463 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 3: when you happen upon an asylum and that you didn't 464 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 3: know was an asylum. Yes, thunder and lightning. 465 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: We've all been there, and it's the storm begins and 466 00:27:58,320 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: you have to stay there for the night. 467 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 3: Right, the strings start rising and the fog starts rolling in. 468 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 1: Are clear so not done with Halloween. 469 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 3: It's in me forever. 470 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,199 Speaker 1: So he goes to This is a true story, folks. 471 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,679 Speaker 1: He goes into the asylum. He meets the director of 472 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: the asylum, and he assumes that the director of the 473 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 1: asylum is the famous and mysterious Doctor Minor. No, says 474 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: the director, the doctor is an inmate. Would you like 475 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: to see his rooms, to which Murray Murray says yeah. 476 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, sure to paint a picture for listeners and 477 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 3: ridiculous historians out there. At this point, what Doctor Miner 478 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 3: looks like is a little wise and fully bearded. I 479 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 3: would describe him as sort of a cross between Dumbledore. 480 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,719 Speaker 3: There's a little bit of Dumbledore and a little bit 481 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 3: of Gandolf. Gandalf the white not the gray, because he's 482 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 3: got this like massive white beard. It was like very professorial, 483 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 3: but very learned looking, but clearly has been kind of locked. 484 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: Up for a while, Yeah, and has very In Professor 485 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: of the Madman, he is described as having very gentle 486 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: eyes that make him somewhat resemble portraits of Monette, Yeah, 487 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: which I thought I thought was poetic and very kind. 488 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: We do want to say there is one indication that 489 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: Murray had some inkling of something being wrong with doctor 490 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: Minor because a visitor from America in the late eighteen 491 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: eighties had thanked Murray for his kindness to poor doctor Minor. 492 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: He didn't really know. 493 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 3: He knew something was up, and that's something. But yeah, 494 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 3: if you either Winchester book, you'll find that there's that 495 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 3: story which we've just recounted, which is kind of the 496 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 3: summarized and popularized version of events. Winchester really digs into 497 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 3: that and kind of calls into question how true it 498 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 3: is and or how true it is. As you mentioned, 499 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 3: there's some question about what Murray knew and when and 500 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 3: the time of events. And this story did come out 501 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 3: at the time, and I think was probably kind of 502 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 3: summarized and popularized by newspaperman at the time. 503 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, they were writing about as it was occurring. 504 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: We do know, however, that when they finally did meet. 505 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: They became genuine friends for a long time, and Murray 506 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: would continue to visit Minor at the asylum. 507 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 3: Again, this is the sort of it's the sort of 508 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 3: relationship built on words and work and trust built that way. 509 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 3: So you could consider it a nineteenth century catfishing if 510 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 3: you want, but I don't see it that way. You know, 511 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 3: they saw the value in one another. Murray valued the 512 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 3: knowledge of Minor, and I think this is also a 513 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 3: good lesson. I don't know that the lesson was taken 514 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 3: at the time, but I think for us looking back, 515 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 3: it's a really valuable way to see that people who 516 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 3: are incarcerated, people who have mental conditions, people who are 517 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 3: struggling with debilitation, don't lose their value either to themselves, 518 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,959 Speaker 3: to their friends, or to society. You can have a 519 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 3: mental breakdown, you can lose an aspect of your personality, 520 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 3: of your life. That doesn't mean you've lost your intelligence. 521 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 3: It doesn't mean you've lost the knowledge you've accrued over 522 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 3: the years. Again, we can also, you know, I feel 523 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 3: like films like A Beautiful Mind or these these sort 524 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 3: of other films can romanticize mental illness too and say 525 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 3: that it's a that it's it's a struggle that's got 526 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 3: to be overcome. It's a tricky line. I mean, it's 527 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 3: it's a it's a messy thing to deal. 528 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: With, absolutely, and sometimes there are no clear answers for 529 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: how best to navigate the situation, especially back then, and 530 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: it's it just speaks, It speaks so highly to Professor 531 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: Murray's character that he doesn't reject this guy. He sees, 532 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: as you said, Christopher, the merit of Miner's work, and 533 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: he continues to visit him. He says, you know what, 534 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: nobody's perfect, but this guy is great at assembling these citations, 535 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: hunting stuff down for him. We need to keep them 536 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: in the game. And he spoke very highly of Minor 537 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: for the rest of his life. In eighteen ninety nine, 538 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: he said, we could easily illustrate the last four centuries 539 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: from doctor Miner's quotations alone. 540 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, his work was invaluable. 541 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: His work was invaluable, and unfortunately his condition continued to worsen. 542 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: In nineteenh two, he began having delusions that he was 543 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: being abducted from his rooms at night and taken around 544 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: the world where he was forced to commit sexual assault 545 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: and because of this. During one delusional episode, he castrated himself, 546 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: which is a very messy thing. Luckily, you know, he's 547 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: a surgeon, so he at least knew enough new enough 548 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: to do it without killing himself, and his health continued 549 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: to worsen. 550 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not the sort of thing that's going to 551 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 3: push your health into a better place. 552 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: True, and Murray, his faithful friend, now not just a colleague, 553 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: begins a campaign on Miner's behalf and he says, this 554 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: guy's been locked up in here for decades. He's one 555 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: of the most important contributors to what I feel is 556 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: one of the most important books in the world after 557 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: the Bible. He's harmless. Can we let him out? And 558 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: so Minor is, by direct orders from Home Secretary of 559 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: Winston Churchill, released from the asylum in nineteen ten. He's released. 560 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: He's instantly deported back to the United States and he 561 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: lives at Saint Elizabeth's Hospital, where he is officially diagnosed 562 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: with what at the time they called dementia praecox, which 563 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: was a chronic, deteriorating psychotic disorder that usually began in 564 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 1: the late teens or early adulthood. This term was gradually 565 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: eventually replaced by the term schizophrenia. 566 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's the kind of thing that he likely 567 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 3: was experiencing internally physically, and then was I don't know, 568 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 3: triggered or enhanced by his experiences in the war. 569 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: Right, exactly exactly. And in nineteen twenty doctor Minor passes 570 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: away in Hartford, Connecticut. He had been moved in nineteen 571 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: nineteen to a retreat for the quote elderly insane. James 572 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: Murray passes away in nineteen fifteen. And if you'll remember 573 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: from our earlier mention of the dictionary, the final results 574 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: of the Oxford English Dictionary were not published until nineteen 575 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: twenty eight. So neither doctor Minor nor Professor Murray ever 576 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,839 Speaker 1: got to witness or direct, you know, they never get 577 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 1: to hold the book. 578 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, their life's work. It literally was their life's work, 579 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 3: and they did not live to see it completion. I mean, 580 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 3: but that's the story of so many great accomplishments in 581 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 3: human culture. When you think about something like the Sigatta 582 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 3: Familia Cathedral in Barcelona that Gudi was working on it. 583 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 3: He died decades ago and it's still underway. You know, 584 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 3: it's I think it's admirable to think that you might 585 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 3: contribute something to human knowledge and to human culture, that 586 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 3: you will put a process in motion. And you know, 587 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 3: granted Murray, Murray thought it would just take a brief 588 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,879 Speaker 3: period of time to wrap up this dictionary thing, put 589 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 3: a couple of words on a page, this that and 590 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 3: the other, and we're done. No, I mean we're talking 591 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 3: like it goes well into the twenties. But to set 592 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 3: something in motion that goes beyond yourself is something you know, 593 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 3: not a lot of us get to do. And learning 594 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 3: the stories of the people behind these contributions to society 595 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 3: is sovaluable because I mean you think about like the mathematicians, 596 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 3: for instance, the women who contributed to the NASA missions 597 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 3: that were written about in Hidden Figures and there was 598 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 3: a movie. Basically, it's super important for us to know 599 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 3: that everything we're talking about in history was accomplished through 600 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 3: human undertaking. You just got to decide to do something, 601 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 3: get past any structural roadblocks that are in the way, 602 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 3: but push forward, and I mean people can accomplish them 603 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 3: really great things. 604 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it calls to mind that old proverb, what is 605 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,760 Speaker 1: it a society grows great when old men plant trees 606 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: who shade they know they shall never sit in Have 607 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:38,399 Speaker 1: you ever heard that one? 608 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 3: I haven't. 609 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: I like it. Yeah, it's and that's that's the kind 610 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: of inspiring noble thing. We know that the Oxford English 611 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: Dictionary is, in a very real way a guide post 612 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: for the entirety of the English language. And you know, 613 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 1: I think we misuse the world sometimes, but it's it's noble, 614 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,720 Speaker 1: it's truly noble to be able to participate in something 615 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 1: of that that level of significance. And here's hoping that 616 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: we can all get a chance to create something like this. 617 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 3: You know, that's that's a tall order, but we can try. 618 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: What you don't want to. We're kind of dictionary with 619 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: me for the rest of your life. 620 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,320 Speaker 3: Do you tell me about your benefits? But what do 621 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:30,839 Speaker 3: you what are you offering? Uh? 622 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,760 Speaker 1: You know, I I've got a I've got a special 623 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: on I guess special on Dorito's okay, because of my 624 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 1: relationship with Robert Evans on behind the Bastards. 625 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,840 Speaker 3: Ben have you ever have you ever actually so, have 626 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 3: you accessed the ied digitally? Have you held a copy 627 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 3: of the book itself? 628 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: I have? 629 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean these things are massive, like the huge books, 630 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 3: so dense. The one now that are like the most 631 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 3: current one that was kind of set in stone in 632 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,879 Speaker 3: the nineties has like five hundred thousand wars. I don't 633 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 3: know if you've seen this. Some friends of mine and 634 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 3: I a while ago gave a friend this as a 635 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 3: wedding present. But you can buy the entire Oxford English 636 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 3: Dictionary in a compressed version. So it's kind of like 637 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 3: the size of a big book, but it's it's in 638 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 3: two volumes, kind of hardbound, comes in a box, but 639 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 3: it's the whole thing in there. And it comes with 640 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 3: a magnifying glass. Yes, yes, yes, but it's so the 641 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,479 Speaker 3: print is so small you've really got to get in there. 642 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 3: But it's it's all of it. I mean we're talking 643 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,959 Speaker 3: like more than two million citations. Like, it's just it's 644 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 3: so dense. 645 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: And the look that magnifying glass is not some cuty 646 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: marketing thing. 647 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 3: You need it, oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. 648 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:47,800 Speaker 1: And I don't know how people will react to this story. 649 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by I find it inspiring, you know, and 650 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: I really appreciate what you said about mental illness not 651 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: negating somebody's value or their worth in the world. And 652 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 1: Chris there, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you 653 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 1: on this show this week. Thanks for coming back after 654 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 1: the first episode. I thought you might be done. 655 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 3: No no, I stuck around this week, but yeah, if 656 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 3: you'll have me back, I'll happily be back. I do 657 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 3: want to mention one more thing about dictionaries just in general. 658 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 3: I think they're super cool, you know, and we talk 659 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 3: about these things that just sort of exist. But the 660 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,920 Speaker 3: very first dictionary that we had in the English language 661 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 3: was put together in the sixteen hundreds, and it was 662 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 3: a product of cultural mixing. It was a product of 663 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 3: the Renaissance. It was a product of English incorporating so 664 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 3: many words from other languages, from French, from Latin, from Greek, 665 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 3: and from Hebrew. The first dictionary was really just a 666 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 3: guide to what at the time were weird words or 667 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 3: like a difficult one. So the very first dictionary is 668 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 3: back in the sixteenth and seventeenth century CE. They weren't comprehensive. 669 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,879 Speaker 3: It was just like, Okay, everybody knows the words we use. 670 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 3: Here's a description of the hard ones. 671 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 672 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,720 Speaker 3: And I want to hear from some of the ridiculous 673 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 3: historians out there. Maybe you guys can comment on the 674 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 3: Facebook page because when I was growing up, when I 675 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 3: was using dictionaries, I always had that one friend who 676 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 3: would use the dictionary too to learn how to spell 677 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 3: a word, which always seemed crazy to me, because how 678 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 3: do you look up a word if you don't know 679 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 3: how to spell the word already. But I know, I know, 680 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 3: I'm not the only one who knows someone like that. 681 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 3: I think even in like in the in the Miracle Worker, right, 682 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:35,840 Speaker 3: maybe someone in there uses the dictionary as a spelling guide. 683 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 3: But maybe maybe Keller herself. I don't know, but I 684 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 3: know I'm not the only one out there who's experienced this. 685 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,800 Speaker 3: Does anyone out there do that? Or do you just 686 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 3: use it to define things? I've always used it to 687 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:47,280 Speaker 3: define things. 688 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: I've used it to define things. I guess you could. 689 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 1: You could use it to find the spelling word by 690 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 1: attempting to go through stumble through it. You've got to 691 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 1: getically yeah, get a guess pre autocorrect. So it's a 692 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: real pain man trying to look up words in English 693 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,799 Speaker 1: Demander and Dictionary, just because of the different you know, 694 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 1: the idiograms versus the it's a whole thing. Yeah. So 695 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 1: I also want to add a request to ridiculous historians. 696 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 1: When this episode comes out, could you visit us on 697 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 1: our Facebook page and let us know some of your 698 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 1: favorite obscure words. We are enamored with strange, unusual and 699 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,320 Speaker 1: anachronistic words, and it's no secret that the English language 700 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: is chock full of them. You know what I mean? 701 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 1: Do you have an obscure word that you like? Oh gosh, 702 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:40,840 Speaker 1: I've been stuck in your head recently. 703 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:43,839 Speaker 3: You know. One of the nice things about working here 704 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:45,399 Speaker 3: at How Stuff Works is you get to dive into 705 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 3: all sorts of weird stuff. And I did write a 706 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 3: piece for the website a year or so ago on 707 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:58,480 Speaker 3: archaic insults, on words that we're insulting a while ago 708 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:00,800 Speaker 3: and that today have fallen out of fashion. And I 709 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 3: think that was kind of brought to light by UH 710 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,719 Speaker 3: by the time, our our president and the leader of 711 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 3: a certain nation on the Korean peninsula, where trading barbs 712 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,919 Speaker 3: back and forth and U and people were like, what's 713 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 3: a dotard? And so so we decided to investigate not 714 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:23,960 Speaker 3: only that, but a bunch of other words like slumgullion. Yeah, 715 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 3: I'm drawing a blankets. 716 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:26,840 Speaker 1: The other hedge's probably one. 717 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 3: Perhaps perhaps perhaps, but anyway, I mean all of this, 718 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 3: it just amounts to words, words. Words. We can post 719 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,240 Speaker 3: a link on the on the Facebook page rights Historians. 720 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:40,839 Speaker 3: I'll post a link to that article. You guys can 721 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 3: inform yourselves. And that does it for me. I mean, 722 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 3: unless you need anything else from me. 723 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,279 Speaker 1: No comet hang out. Let's go, let's go, let's go 724 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,359 Speaker 1: hit the scene. And as we said, our trustee co 725 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 1: host Nol is out adventuring. But Christopher, you mentioned that 726 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 1: you're hoping he's just directly behind somebody. 727 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,320 Speaker 3: Wait he should I turn Nol? 728 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:03,680 Speaker 1: Hey, Noel, how's it going? 729 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,799 Speaker 2: Well, Hey, you guys, It's it's me Nol. I'm in 730 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 2: Los Angeles, in the in the in my hotel room 731 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 2: in the Hollywood Roosevelt, which apparently is where Marilyn Monroe died. 732 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 2: I've been watching the Haunting of Hill House alone in 733 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 2: this creepy hotel by myself at night. I think I'm 734 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,600 Speaker 2: still kind of on East Coast brain haven't quite made 735 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,799 Speaker 2: the switch yet, so I've been feeling like I've been 736 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:33,279 Speaker 2: seeing some apparitions hovering around this really bougie canopy bed 737 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 2: that I'm that I'm in laying in right now, in fact, 738 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 2: podcasting to you find people. I'm really glad that Christopher 739 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 2: was able to sit in and talk about the Oxford 740 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 2: English Dictionary. 741 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:43,799 Speaker 1: That's pretty cool. 742 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 2: Sorry if I sounded a little out of it, I've 743 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,480 Speaker 2: been I've been working late nights and getting up early, 744 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,720 Speaker 2: and as far as I'm concerned, I don't even. 745 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:51,919 Speaker 3: Know what time it is right now. 746 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 2: But godspeed ridiculous historians to you and yours and Christopher 747 00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,320 Speaker 2: and Ben, and I'll see you on the flip side 748 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,239 Speaker 2: if I return and don't get murdered by ghosts in 749 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:02,640 Speaker 2: the night. 750 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 1: And that's it for today. Christopher. I hope that you 751 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,640 Speaker 1: make this a habit. I hope you return to shed 752 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: some more light on some of these strange stories of 753 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 1: human civilization. And I let you off easy this time, pal, 754 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,360 Speaker 1: but next time I'd love to hear some more weird 755 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:21,120 Speaker 1: cover songs. 756 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,799 Speaker 3: Ben, I can do it for you. Hey, Thanks Ben, 757 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 3: Thanks Noel, Thanks Casey, you guys listening out there. Thanks, 758 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:29,800 Speaker 3: thanks for having. 759 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,760 Speaker 1: Me, and we'll see you again next week. 760 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:41,360 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 761 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,600 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.