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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey there, welcome back.

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Speaker 1: It's the latest edition of the Book of Joe Podcast

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Speaker 1: with me, Tom Verducci and of course Joe Madden. Joe,

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Speaker 1: I want to get to since we're at that point

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Speaker 1: now where teams are just gathering for spring training, full

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Speaker 1: squads coming in. I want to get to how important

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Speaker 1: it is for a manager to set the tone literally

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Speaker 1: from day one. But before we get there, we have

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Speaker 1: to double back to our super Bowl edition. It's our

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Speaker 1: first show since then. I will just go on record

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Speaker 1: and remind you, Joe Madden, then I said, do not

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Speaker 1: give the ball to Patrick Mahomes for the last at

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Speaker 1: bat in the game, because he's going to beat you.

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Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happened. And listen, you're manager, Joe.

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Speaker 1: You've made some on the decision flies in the heat

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Speaker 1: of the moment. Give me your take on Kyle Hanns

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Speaker 1: Shanahan's decision to take the ball in overtime. It obviously

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Speaker 1: it didn't work out, But if you rewind the tape,

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Speaker 1: what were you thinking at that time?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know that's six to one half doesn't either.

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Speaker 3: I know, I get it from that perspective. By kicking off,

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Speaker 3: obviously you get to make different choices moving forward. But

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Speaker 3: how about the other night I had dinner with Bruce

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Speaker 3: arians here in Tampa, and the question came up. He says,

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Speaker 3: I want the ball. I want the ball. That's what

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Speaker 3: VA told me the other night. So it's one of

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Speaker 3: those things when it works, it's great when it doesn't.

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Speaker 3: And of course I would imagine analytically speaking, there was

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Speaker 3: a numerical support to say that you should have kicked

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Speaker 3: as opposed to receive right there. So I honestly got

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Speaker 3: I didn't make a whole lot of it, because if

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Speaker 3: they had scored and they put the pressure on them,

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Speaker 3: then it's a different The world beats differently at that

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Speaker 3: point too. But the thing I was surprised about more

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Speaker 3: than anything was when I read post where a lot

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Speaker 3: of the forty nine ers were not aware of the

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Speaker 3: new overtime rules in the Super Bowl and playoffs. That

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Speaker 3: kind of shocked me a little bit. I don't know

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Speaker 3: that would have made a difference. I don't know, but

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Speaker 3: even the fact that they came out so easily admitted

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Speaker 3: to it. It just in the case are prett such

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Speaker 3: a bad picture towards the group of your organization. Shanahan's

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Speaker 3: so well thought out. He is that good of a

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Speaker 3: play caller. I do like watching his team's play, And

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Speaker 3: you're right, I did pick them in that game, and

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Speaker 3: then it did come down to mahomes at the end.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know. I'm sure you have some data

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Speaker 3: that might support kicking as opposed to receiving, But being

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Speaker 3: in a moment right there, i'd like to know specifically.

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Speaker 3: I guess they wanted to rest their defense. I heard

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Speaker 3: all these different reasons, so there are different reasons to

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Speaker 3: do different things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, first of all, you're right, it is six and one,

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Speaker 1: half a dozen or the other. I don't think there

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Speaker 1: is a quote unquote right way to approach the situation.

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Speaker 1: For instance, in baseball, there used to not be an

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Speaker 1: actual rule that the home team batted last. You know,

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Speaker 1: a century ago, the home team had the choice of

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Speaker 1: batting first or last, and obviously they just picked batting

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Speaker 1: a lot every time. So they just said, you know what,

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Speaker 1: We'll just make this a rule. It's an obvious choice, right,

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Speaker 1: if you're tie going into the bottom of the eighth

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Speaker 1: inning or top of the ninth inning, you do not

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Speaker 1: have to protect the lead. As a home team, it's

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Speaker 1: a big advantage to go last. We see that with

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Speaker 1: the extra ning rule with a runerund second base. Right,

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Speaker 1: if you're the home team, you know what you need

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Speaker 1: to win the game. If the other team doesn't score

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Speaker 1: in the top of the tenth, you can actually play

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Speaker 1: for one run in the bottom of the ginning. You

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Speaker 1: wouldn't do that if the team scored one or two

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Speaker 1: runs at the top of the inning. So what's happening

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Speaker 1: is the home team has more information on which to

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Speaker 1: base their decisions. That's what I didn't like about this call.

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Speaker 1: You're giving the Kansas City Chiefs more information when they

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Speaker 1: have the ball. If they had the ball first and

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Speaker 1: have a fourth and one on their own thirty five,

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Speaker 1: they're punting the ball. They ain't going for it, But

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Speaker 1: because San Francisco put points on the board, they are

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Speaker 1: going for it. And that's the play to me that

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Speaker 1: won the game for them. The homes keeper on fourth

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Speaker 1: and short. So you're giving Kansas City more information on

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Speaker 1: which to play call and to strategy. Guys, I'd rather

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Speaker 1: have the information now. What you said is correct, though,

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Speaker 1: if you score first, especially a touchdown that puts tremendous

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Speaker 1: pressure on the other team.

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Speaker 2: So for me, there you can go both ways.

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Speaker 1: And Shanahan's philosophy was mostly about getting the ball the

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Speaker 1: third time. He thought it was a field goal game.

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Speaker 1: Each team scores on field goals. Then the team that

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Speaker 1: has the ball the third time is the one that

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Speaker 1: has the big advantage because now it's a sudden death

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Speaker 1: situation field goal. You win the Super Bowl, you go

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Speaker 1: home if you're the third team that scores. He was

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Speaker 1: counting on that. I don't like the idea of deferring

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Speaker 1: your advantage to the third possession of overtime when you

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Speaker 1: could lose and did lose on the second possession. It's

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Speaker 1: like saving your closer, Joe. If you save your closer

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Speaker 1: and you never get them the game. You know, Zach

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Speaker 1: Britten up in Toronto with Baltimore. You know you look bad.

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Speaker 1: You have to go down.

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Speaker 2: Taking your best shot and taking your best swing.

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Speaker 1: But analytically, yeah, I don't think there's an obvious way

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Speaker 1: to go forward on this. You just know that when

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Speaker 1: you see the college football game, and I get it,

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Speaker 1: the rules are a little bit differently in terms of

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Speaker 1: where you get the ball. Teams always defer and let

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Speaker 1: the other team go first so you have more information

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Speaker 1: on which to make your decisions.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's a great breakdown, actually, and when you start

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Speaker 3: bringing into the baseball world, that makes perfect sense. Again,

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Speaker 3: you're the three possession thing. I did not hear anything

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Speaker 3: about that, didn't even read anything about that. But I

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Speaker 3: can understand that. I mean again, when you're sitting down,

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Speaker 3: and I would imagine that they had, at least the

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Speaker 3: staff did prior to the game being played. Listen, if

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Speaker 3: we get to this point, how are we going to

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Speaker 3: work it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sure they did, Joe. I'm sure the staff went

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Speaker 2: through this.

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Speaker 1: Whether every player got the message, I don't know, but

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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I would think this is where I would

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Speaker 3: ask analytical question. I would I would ask my analysts

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Speaker 3: what he got here? Talk to me about something that

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Speaker 3: I'm not seeing right here, something that I have not

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Speaker 3: thought about yet. And that's really where I like analyst

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Speaker 3: and analytical part of the game is, Like I will

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Speaker 3: do that. I will say, listen, I'm unsure here. Like

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Speaker 3: there's times when you're really crystal clear and you feel

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Speaker 3: strongly about it may go beyond any kind of number,

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Speaker 3: it's just how you feel and you stay with that whatever,

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Speaker 3: But I really like the tiebreaker. When I'm ambivalent, I

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Speaker 3: just don't know. I really don't know. Give me more

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Speaker 3: intel about this, because obviously I like to really feel

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Speaker 3: strongly about we all do what we're going to do.

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Speaker 3: And when I do feel that way, I'm gonna go ahead.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna plow forward. But when I don't, I want

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Speaker 3: the nerds involved. And that's and I would imagine that's

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Speaker 3: what they did today before that game.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, Joe, I want to ask you,

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Speaker 1: this is again from put your manager hat on here

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Speaker 1: decision making. How often do you think about how the

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Speaker 1: personnel on the other side influences your decision? In other words,

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Speaker 1: when I'm making this decision, I have to know that

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Speaker 1: it's Patrick Mahomes on the other side.

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Speaker 2: This is not just an algorithm I'm trusting.

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Speaker 1: I'm going against one of the best quarterbacks of all time,

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Speaker 1: who's got an incredible postseason record, especially in the big moments.

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Speaker 1: To me, it would seem like, you know, back in

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Speaker 1: your day with the Angels and you're going up against

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Speaker 1: the Yankees, and you know Marianna Rivera is in the bullpen,

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Speaker 1: that's just not a closer.

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Speaker 2: That's the closer.

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Speaker 1: How much does having Mahomes on the other side, or

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Speaker 1: my example, Mariano Rivera, affects decision making.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean even right down to the starting pictures.

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Speaker 3: When you're facing a really good starting picture that's hot,

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Speaker 3: you're going to take different chances early regarding where to

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Speaker 3: play your defense, play your infield in which I really

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Speaker 3: got used to anyway. I started doing it almost always

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Speaker 3: from the first inning on run third base only. So

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Speaker 3: the picture matchup can influence for me, how are you

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Speaker 3: going to play your defense early? And that's also going

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Speaker 3: to influence risk taking. The better the picture, the better

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Speaker 3: picture we're facing, the more risks I want to take.

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Speaker 3: It's just not logical to think that we're going to

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Speaker 3: step up into three run home run, We're gonna get

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Speaker 3: three line drives in the gap back to back to back.

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Speaker 3: It just doesn't happen. So when the other team had

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Speaker 3: a really formidable starting pitcher, I would alter defensive alignment

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Speaker 3: or aggressiveness. I would alter aggressing. This on the basis

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Speaker 3: also because I really felt you had to take more

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Speaker 3: chances and not played straight up. And then, like you're saying, bullpen.

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Speaker 3: That's when you the game is a seven inning game.

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Speaker 3: It depends on the bullpen. I want to win after

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Speaker 3: six or seven innings. That's how I would look at

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Speaker 3: It depends on how the strength of it, especially the closer.

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Speaker 3: But back it up again when the Royals went in

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Speaker 3: a couple of years ago, man, God, I mean back

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Speaker 3: it up to the fifth inning, sixth inning because of

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Speaker 3: the way they lined it up like a bunch of

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Speaker 3: you know, seven forty seven's on the tarmac. There's just

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Speaker 3: not a whole lot you can do about it. But

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Speaker 3: I would do both. I would be the starting pitchers,

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Speaker 3: would influence defense and aggressing this offensively, and the strength

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Speaker 3: of the bullpen, and a legitimate closer and set up guy.

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Speaker 3: You're starting to play a seven inning game here. You

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Speaker 3: just don't want to keep waiting, waiting, waiting, so you're

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Speaker 3: going to push it a little bit earlier to try

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Speaker 3: to take an advantage and then hold on towards the

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Speaker 3: end because you don't want to see the significant part

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Speaker 3: of their bullpen. You want to see the soccer side.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was an enjoyable game, nough to watch. The

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl, of course, decided in overtime. But even before

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Speaker 1: or that, watching these two quarterbacks go at it and

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Speaker 1: pretty cool that both of them are sons of professional

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Speaker 1: baseball pitchers and they're out there on a Super Bowl

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Speaker 1: field competing. I just think, as I thought going into

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Speaker 1: the game, when you have someone like Mahomes and the

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Speaker 1: NFL is nothing but a quarterback league, Let's face it,

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Speaker 1: the NFL is all about quarterback play. It's the decisive factor,

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Speaker 1: There's no question about that. You saw that in the

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl. I thought the one third down play they

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Speaker 1: get played called by Shanahan for Brock Purty when Spegnola

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Speaker 1: is going to blitz every time in a big spot

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Speaker 1: on third down every single time, and they got caught

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Speaker 1: with a play a selection in which they did not

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Speaker 1: account for blitz. I think you almost have to max

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Speaker 1: protect and assume that Spagnola is going.

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Speaker 2: To blitz you.

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Speaker 1: They got the blitz, they stop Purty, whereas Mahomes can

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Speaker 1: improvise that one play I talked about the fourth and

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Speaker 1: one play was actually an option passed to Kelsey.

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Speaker 2: He decides to keep the ball, it opens up.

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Speaker 1: I just think Mahomes is on such a different level

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Speaker 1: Joe that he allows play calling and play making that

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Speaker 1: no other quarterback, and that's no knock on rock Perty.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you saw how well he played under tremendous

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Speaker 1: pressure from from Jump Street, no sign of nerves at all.

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Speaker 1: But you just have to put my homes in a

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Speaker 1: different level.

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Speaker 3: Is there any league that's dominated by one position more

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Speaker 3: than the NFL is dominated by one position? No? I mean,

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Speaker 3: I'm just I'm just looking at it right here. I

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Speaker 3: had to brunch the other day with Raheem Morris. He's

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Speaker 3: the new skipper of the Falcons. I asked, who's your quarterback? Brother?

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Speaker 3: You know, I love Raheem. Raheem is one of the

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Speaker 3: funnest people to hang out with, and I'm really looking

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Speaker 3: forward to a success back dur in Atlanta. But who's

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Speaker 3: your quarterback? Me and baseball, it's a pitcher's league for me.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I I've always said that they could have

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Speaker 3: named the game base pitching as opposed to baseball and

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Speaker 3: the NBA. I'm just sitting here thinking it would dominates

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Speaker 3: the NBA used to be. I thought it was a

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Speaker 3: really real center back in the day as we were

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Speaker 3: growing up. But whether it was you know, Chamberlain Russell,

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Speaker 3: even big old Nate Thurman, I was a Zembo Baby

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Speaker 3: fan for years, but each team Bob Lander had to

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Speaker 3: have a real aircraft carrier in the middle. I don't

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Speaker 3: know that it's as necessary these guys are shooting three

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Speaker 3: pointers now, but I think it's remained static or clear

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Speaker 3: that the NFL, if you don't have a quarterback, you

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Speaker 3: can't be a really smart coach. And in baseball say this,

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Speaker 3: if you don't have a really good bullpen, especially at

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Speaker 3: the end of it, it's really difficult to be a

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Speaker 3: very good manager.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree with that, Joe, and I think

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Speaker 1: if you went back to baseball in the sixties and seventies,

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Speaker 1: you would stay starting pitching right right. But now it's

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Speaker 1: obviously a game that's built from the back forward in

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Speaker 1: terms of bullpen arms, with so many, so many guys

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Speaker 1: with closer stuff. I'm talking about by the time you

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Speaker 1: get to the fifth or sixth inning, that's what's driving

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Speaker 1: the game right now. I mentioned new managers spring training.

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Speaker 1: We're going to get into that next. There are seven

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Speaker 1: new managers opening up camp this week. What kind of

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Speaker 1: message should they be giving their players to set the

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Speaker 1: tone for the twenty twenty four season.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk to Joe about that next.

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Speaker 1: All right, Joe, I want you to go back in

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Speaker 1: the memory book here and think about when you were

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Speaker 1: name manager of the Tampa Bay Rays Devil Rays at

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Speaker 1: the time, excuse me, And you know guys' rookie managers

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Speaker 1: this year, you've got Carlos Mendoza with the Mets, Stephen

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Speaker 1: Vote with the Cleveland Guardians. There's that first day speech

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Speaker 1: that you probably lose a little bit of sleepover and

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Speaker 1: probably is not as important as you make it out

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Speaker 1: to be. I don't know how it tuned players are

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Speaker 1: to actually listening to a twenty minute speech or however

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Speaker 1: long it is, but it does sort of set a tone.

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Speaker 1: So take me back, Devil Rays, Joe Madden, your preparation

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Speaker 1: for that message that you gave, and what tone did

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Speaker 1: you want to set?

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Speaker 3: You're right, you do lose sleep I did. I'm one

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Speaker 3: of those guys. I mean, I was drawing on all

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Speaker 3: my years of having been in a field coordinator for

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Speaker 3: the Angels, a minor league manager, and even as a

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Speaker 3: bench coach for so many years to get to that

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Speaker 3: two thousand and six moment with the Devil Rays at

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Speaker 3: one of my favorite sports venues of all time. Al

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Speaker 3: laying Field and Saint Petersburg. That really, and I don't

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Speaker 3: want to get into that too deeply, but that's that

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Speaker 3: really I hold that place in high regard. Yeah, you're

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Speaker 3: trying to paint, you know, what you're about and what

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Speaker 3: you want your team to be about. You're trying to

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Speaker 3: set the culture and philosophy right from the jump Street

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Speaker 3: right there. And it does. It takes it did take

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Speaker 3: me a lot of long time or a lot of

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Speaker 3: time to try to again craft the words properly. And

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Speaker 3: again you have to understand your audience, like you're saying too,

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Speaker 3: you can't be too long winded, you can't get too involved,

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Speaker 3: but you still want to make that point. And there's

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Speaker 3: you know, everybody else's standing there too. It's just not

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Speaker 3: the players. You got GMS, you got maybe even the

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Speaker 3: owners in town. You got a bunch of coaches, maybe

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Speaker 3: a lot of former major league players that are coaches now.

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Speaker 3: So there's you're addressing a lot of people, and yeah,

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Speaker 3: they do want to hear what you have to say.

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Speaker 3: So for me, it's all about that setting the culture,

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Speaker 3: setting the philosophy, setting the tone for the camp. Now,

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Speaker 3: just moving a couple of years ahead of that or

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Speaker 3: beyond that to two thousand and seven eight we lost

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Speaker 3: hundred games, and we lost near hundred games, and then

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Speaker 3: here comes two thousand and eight, and I really thought

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Speaker 3: I needed to be more specific or give them something

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Speaker 3: to be realistic, because we had not won. I think

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Speaker 3: seventy games or something was like the benchmark for the

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Speaker 3: Devil Race to that point. So I was out in

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Speaker 3: California as living in Bray at that time, and riding

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Speaker 3: my bike daily, and one day I went out there

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Speaker 3: and I just pounded on something mentally to myself. I

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Speaker 3: had read something about the esoteric message the Miami Heat

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Speaker 3: had in their club house, used to throw a slip

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Speaker 3: of paper in a bucket or something as they walked

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Speaker 3: in under a towel on top of it. Just that

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Speaker 3: was their intentions for the day, and I liked that

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Speaker 3: esoteric component to it. So what I did was I

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Speaker 3: wrote a wrote it, wrote, and I don't even know why,

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Speaker 3: but I thought equals eight. I don't know why I

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Speaker 3: did it when I did it, but I did do it.

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Speaker 3: Nine players playing nine innings hard permission to be one

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Speaker 3: of the eight teams in the playoffs. So I took

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Speaker 3: that and I went back and I swear I just

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Speaker 3: called Andrewson as I got back Friedman San Andrew, what

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Speaker 3: do you think about this? He said, I love it.

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Speaker 3: So from that extrapolate at nine nine more wins out

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Speaker 3: of the offense, nine one wins out of the defense,

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Speaker 3: nine one wins out of the pitching. I went each

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Speaker 3: each component of the game to think that we have

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Speaker 3: to be nine games better in each department, which was

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Speaker 3: like obviously twenty seven wins, and that should put us

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Speaker 3: in the playoffs that year. To the point I used

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Speaker 3: to have little nine equals eight placards above urinoles in

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Speaker 3: their locker room. Everywhere they looked, they saw nine equals

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Speaker 3: eight and eventually, of course the T shirt and it

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Speaker 3: did work. It had it resonated. I mean, by the

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Speaker 3: end of the year, nine equals eight was all over

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Speaker 3: the Tampa Bay area. My players are actually residing it

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Speaker 3: after wins, and then eventually we got to the World Series.

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Speaker 3: But that was something I thought was really dramatic or

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Speaker 3: drastic that needed to be done. And how do you

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Speaker 3: convince how do you sit there or they're watching you,

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Speaker 3: they're talking, you're talking to your players in spring training

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Speaker 3: when you have not won more than seventy games. Ever,

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Speaker 3: and now of a sudden, I'm talking going to the playoffs.

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Speaker 3: I felt I had to give them an equation, a

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Speaker 3: way to make this work. So that's what I did.

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Speaker 3: So I sat down and I mean that was a

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Speaker 3: bike ride. I swear I can remember it, going down Baston,

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Speaker 3: Cherry up Rows, all these different streets, very hilly and bray,

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Speaker 3: a really great ride. And by the time I got done,

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Speaker 3: I felt pretty strongly about it that message, and I

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Speaker 3: remember the guy sitting in front of me. I remember

357
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Speaker 3: throwing it out there, looking at the looking at me like,

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Speaker 3: what the hell are you talking about? Kind of a thing.

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Speaker 3: But I stayed with it. And sometimes I think that

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Speaker 3: you have to create a roadmap. How are you going

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Speaker 3: to do this? Just don't say we're gonna do how

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Speaker 3: are we going to do this? And that was my point,

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Speaker 3: so I would try to be as specific as I could,

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Speaker 3: and I think eventually it did play out pretty well.

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Speaker 1: And if I remember correctly, Joe, I think back in

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Speaker 1: the day, especially the first time with the Devil Rays,

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Speaker 1: that was a small gathering. It might have even been

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Speaker 1: on the field where you could address your troops. You've

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Speaker 1: seen it literally the game grow over the years and

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Speaker 1: my own experience. I went to spring training and played

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Speaker 1: with the Toronto Blue Jays in two thousand and five.

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Speaker 1: We're sitting in a big room. They didn't have a

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Speaker 1: great facility back then in Dunedin. But it was one

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Speaker 1: after the other. It was the trainers, it was support people,

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Speaker 1: it was the general manager, it was the assistant general manager.

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Speaker 1: Then finally it was the manager, John Gibbons. So there

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Speaker 1: were a lot of voices in the room. So I

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Speaker 1: think setting the tone for the manager now seems like

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Speaker 1: it's a shared responsibility by an organization.

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Speaker 3: Correct, there was a time it was just a manager.

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Speaker 3: There's no question about that. The manager was the voice

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Speaker 3: and that's the only voice that anybody wanted to hear from.

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying that was right. I was always concerned

384
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Speaker 3: about that growing up in the ANGE organization because we

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Speaker 3: were changing managers so often. Philosophically, the organization was changing

386
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Speaker 3: almost every two to three years, and as a minor

387
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Speaker 3: league coordinator, my message to the players was always changing,

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Speaker 3: just based on philosophical whims. That's the best way I

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Speaker 3: could describe it. Of those that were in charge, there

390
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Speaker 3: was nothing really ever etched in stone and I think

391
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Speaker 3: to me, that's why the Angels floundered a lot coming up.

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Speaker 3: We had great players men. I think it's been said

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Speaker 3: that we documented we put more guys in the big

394
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Speaker 3: leagues between eighty four and ninety four than any other

395
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Speaker 3: organization in baseball, but we could not win on a

396
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Speaker 3: major league level until eventually we did. So, yeah, all

397
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Speaker 3: that stuff is important and it matters. And right now,

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Speaker 3: for instance, I'm thinking when you brought that up, I'm

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Speaker 3: remembering Sloan Park Cubs. There's this big meeting room, theater room.

400
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Speaker 3: It's almost like a lecture hall in a university. And

401
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Speaker 3: I'm standing down there and it's like everybody's like, you know,

402
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Speaker 3: piled up, one seat extra higher than the other. Place

403
00:18:48,918 --> 00:18:52,598
Speaker 3: is packed. I mean, every seat's taken, everybody standing along

404
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Speaker 3: the walls, up side and back. It's a claustrophobic feel

405
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Speaker 3: feeling to it. And you got to go in there

406
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Speaker 3: and throw your stuff out at them. And I said,

407
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Speaker 3: it wasn't just me. It starts with I think mister

408
00:19:04,838 --> 00:19:09,238
Speaker 3: Rickett spoke, and then of course THEO spoke, Grank Kenney spoke,

409
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Speaker 3: everybody spoke, and then you speak. It's intimidating, not going

410
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Speaker 3: to lie to you, man, it's intimidating. There's a lot

411
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Speaker 3: of stuff going on there, and it's completely different because

412
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Speaker 3: there was only one message that mattered from I don't

413
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Speaker 3: know the beginning of time until was it nineteen, I

414
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Speaker 3: mean twenty fifteen. I don't even know when it really changed.

415
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Speaker 3: But I'm here to tell you, man, when Jeane Mak

416
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Speaker 3: stood in front of you, that's all I had to hear.

417
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Speaker 3: Johnny McNamara, Doug Rader, Marcel Latchman. There was no other

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Speaker 3: voice that was pertinent at that time, and it was

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Speaker 3: the same in every other organization.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you're right.

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Speaker 1: You think about that meeting room and some at the

422
00:19:49,318 --> 00:19:53,038
Speaker 1: trading complex there that Cubs have. It's beautiful and it's

423
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Speaker 1: sort of to me is emblematic of the growth of

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Speaker 1: the game, both in terms of the front office size,

425
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Speaker 1: in terms of the staffing and all the different components

426
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Speaker 1: that go into building a team. And you know, I

427
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Speaker 1: was sitting on basically grammar school desks with the Blue

428
00:20:06,838 --> 00:20:08,398
Speaker 1: Jays back in their old training.

429
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Speaker 2: Facility in Dunedin. So all these places have great facilities.

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Speaker 1: As I mentioned, Joe, there's seven managers with new teams.

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Speaker 2: Two rookie managers that I.

432
00:20:16,878 --> 00:20:19,558
Speaker 1: Mentioned all of them. I don't care if you're Bob Melboyn.

433
00:20:19,598 --> 00:20:22,558
Speaker 1: You've been around for twenty something years, there's got to

434
00:20:22,598 --> 00:20:25,798
Speaker 1: be kind of an anxiety, maybe not a nervousness, but

435
00:20:26,038 --> 00:20:27,798
Speaker 1: you know, wanting to get off on the right foot,

436
00:20:27,838 --> 00:20:30,158
Speaker 1: introduce yourself to the players, the ones that you don't know,

437
00:20:30,198 --> 00:20:31,318
Speaker 1: in which case it's.

438
00:20:31,158 --> 00:20:31,918
Speaker 2: Probably a lot.

439
00:20:32,758 --> 00:20:36,838
Speaker 1: I'll go back to My favorite story about managers' first

440
00:20:37,358 --> 00:20:40,078
Speaker 1: day meetings or first full workout is usually when they

441
00:20:40,078 --> 00:20:43,078
Speaker 1: have them. Joe Tory in nineteen ninety six. Here's a

442
00:20:43,118 --> 00:20:45,758
Speaker 1: guy who's never been to the World Series as a

443
00:20:45,798 --> 00:20:49,038
Speaker 1: player or as a manager. He gets hired to replace

444
00:20:49,078 --> 00:20:51,358
Speaker 1: Buck Showalter. He knows he's got a good team, and

445
00:20:51,398 --> 00:20:53,478
Speaker 1: he stands up there and he's setting the goal, and

446
00:20:53,518 --> 00:20:55,918
Speaker 1: the goal is not to win the World Series. Remember

447
00:20:55,958 --> 00:20:57,558
Speaker 1: the Yankees at that point had not been to a

448
00:20:57,558 --> 00:21:00,878
Speaker 1: World Series since nineteen seventy eight. That's an eternity in

449
00:21:00,998 --> 00:21:03,878
Speaker 1: Yankee Kingdom. Joe Torre gets up there and he said,

450
00:21:04,478 --> 00:21:06,598
Speaker 1: I want to win a World Series, and not just one.

451
00:21:06,918 --> 00:21:10,958
Speaker 1: I want to win multiple World Series. And I think that,

452
00:21:11,118 --> 00:21:13,758
Speaker 1: in its own way, set the tone. It was something

453
00:21:13,798 --> 00:21:17,038
Speaker 1: that was very personal. Here's the guy just he spent

454
00:21:17,078 --> 00:21:18,998
Speaker 1: his whole baseball life trying to get to the World

455
00:21:19,118 --> 00:21:22,238
Speaker 1: Series and hadn't been there, and he's not satisfied with

456
00:21:22,318 --> 00:21:23,798
Speaker 1: even getting there once.

457
00:21:24,038 --> 00:21:25,398
Speaker 2: He wants multiple ones.

458
00:21:25,398 --> 00:21:27,078
Speaker 1: And of course that the Yankees go off on the

459
00:21:27,158 --> 00:21:30,118
Speaker 1: Dynasty and the Tory era. Anything like that stand out

460
00:21:30,158 --> 00:21:33,438
Speaker 1: for you, Joe, or one of your speeches or someone

461
00:21:33,758 --> 00:21:36,798
Speaker 1: you were a coach and you thought, man, that just

462
00:21:36,918 --> 00:21:38,438
Speaker 1: hit the right tone for a season.

463
00:21:38,838 --> 00:21:41,838
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I really do. I mean the nine equals

464
00:21:41,838 --> 00:21:43,638
Speaker 3: eight thing. I'm serious. I mean, think about it. We

465
00:21:43,718 --> 00:21:46,478
Speaker 3: had the Rays, the Devil Rays were nothing. I mean,

466
00:21:46,518 --> 00:21:49,278
Speaker 3: it was an organization, was not a good organization. There

467
00:21:49,358 --> 00:21:53,238
Speaker 3: was a lot of infighting. There was not one method

468
00:21:53,278 --> 00:21:57,518
Speaker 3: of doing anything, and kind of like searching for your footing.

469
00:21:57,758 --> 00:22:02,198
Speaker 3: And I thought it was really important that we and

470
00:22:02,238 --> 00:22:04,438
Speaker 3: then of course at that point I had to come

471
00:22:04,478 --> 00:22:08,758
Speaker 3: up with a thought or something to make it believable, predictable,

472
00:22:09,158 --> 00:22:13,118
Speaker 3: it can actually happen. And then just to take it

473
00:22:13,158 --> 00:22:15,718
Speaker 3: to another level. I know when I went to Chicago

474
00:22:15,838 --> 00:22:20,478
Speaker 3: with the Cubs, the first press conference at the Cubby Bear,

475
00:22:20,798 --> 00:22:22,918
Speaker 3: and I can see my name and the marquee out

476
00:22:22,958 --> 00:22:25,518
Speaker 3: the window, and I Wrigley feel that I'm going to

477
00:22:25,598 --> 00:22:27,758
Speaker 3: start talking playoffs. I'm going to start talking world series.

478
00:22:27,798 --> 00:22:29,998
Speaker 3: And that was the first thing I said with the

479
00:22:30,038 --> 00:22:32,678
Speaker 3: Cubs when I walked in the door there. Also, I

480
00:22:32,718 --> 00:22:35,638
Speaker 3: know with the Angels more recently and with the Double

481
00:22:35,718 --> 00:22:37,838
Speaker 3: Rays and what started, I talked playoffs. But I think

482
00:22:38,278 --> 00:22:40,638
Speaker 3: pretty certain I was more specific with the world series

483
00:22:41,598 --> 00:22:44,958
Speaker 3: with the Cubs when I got there in twenty fourteen fifteen,

484
00:22:45,678 --> 00:22:48,598
Speaker 3: moving on from there. So, yeah, you have to be listen.

485
00:22:48,838 --> 00:22:52,358
Speaker 3: It's a self fulfilling whatever. Whatever comes out of trepidation,

486
00:22:52,478 --> 00:22:55,638
Speaker 3: comes out of uncertainty, comes out in those talks or

487
00:22:55,678 --> 00:22:58,438
Speaker 3: thoughts or speeches. That's what the players are going to

488
00:22:58,438 --> 00:23:01,198
Speaker 3: carry with them. You have to aim high, and you

489
00:23:01,278 --> 00:23:03,758
Speaker 3: have to make sure that you're creating within the player.

490
00:23:03,958 --> 00:23:08,838
Speaker 3: Whomever else is listening this wanting to set some high

491
00:23:08,918 --> 00:23:12,038
Speaker 3: bars here, Let's set some expectations. That's the other thing

492
00:23:12,078 --> 00:23:15,398
Speaker 3: you've heard me talk about expectations and pressure. Everybody talks

493
00:23:15,398 --> 00:23:17,718
Speaker 3: about it as being a privilege, great, but I talk

494
00:23:17,798 --> 00:23:20,438
Speaker 3: about it as if you see those words, run towards them,

495
00:23:20,478 --> 00:23:24,358
Speaker 3: never run away from pressure and expectations, because those words

496
00:23:24,398 --> 00:23:27,678
Speaker 3: have really good conclusions. Attached to them, and that was

497
00:23:27,718 --> 00:23:30,598
Speaker 3: always a big part whenever I talk to my guys

498
00:23:30,638 --> 00:23:32,958
Speaker 3: to really point that out, because I mean so many

499
00:23:32,998 --> 00:23:36,998
Speaker 3: times you did mention the word anxiety and I prefer eagerness. Well,

500
00:23:37,038 --> 00:23:38,838
Speaker 3: you get to those moments, and we have all had

501
00:23:38,838 --> 00:23:41,958
Speaker 3: these moments where things get you're counted on, you're put

502
00:23:41,958 --> 00:23:44,558
Speaker 3: out front, you're the lead singer, you're setting the tone,

503
00:23:44,998 --> 00:23:48,558
Speaker 3: and there's an anxiousness. There's an anxiety. I cannot deny that,

504
00:23:48,998 --> 00:23:51,558
Speaker 3: but I try to channel it into eagerness. Eager is

505
00:23:51,558 --> 00:23:54,238
Speaker 3: a better word than being anxious for me. So I

506
00:23:54,278 --> 00:23:57,558
Speaker 3: really try to focus on that from my perspective and

507
00:23:57,638 --> 00:23:59,638
Speaker 3: realize when I get all amped up like that, I'm

508
00:23:59,718 --> 00:24:03,238
Speaker 3: just more eager than nervous or anxious, And it's easier

509
00:24:03,278 --> 00:24:06,198
Speaker 3: for me to deal with internally, because, believe me, man, everybody,

510
00:24:06,198 --> 00:24:08,598
Speaker 3: there's a lot of folks and myself included, that can

511
00:24:08,638 --> 00:24:11,398
Speaker 3: look like, you know, like a calm sea on the

512
00:24:11,438 --> 00:24:13,718
Speaker 3: surface from a distance. But I'll tell you what, if

513
00:24:13,718 --> 00:24:15,918
Speaker 3: you can see below the surface, there's a lot of

514
00:24:16,398 --> 00:24:18,598
Speaker 3: paddling going on and there's a lot of uncertainty going

515
00:24:18,598 --> 00:24:20,918
Speaker 3: on underneath there that it really does mess with your head.

516
00:24:20,918 --> 00:24:23,598
Speaker 3: A little bit. So I prefer the word eager over

517
00:24:23,838 --> 00:24:29,398
Speaker 3: anxious or anxiety. And I also believe in admitting to it.

518
00:24:30,278 --> 00:24:32,238
Speaker 3: There's a great line that I read years ago, feel

519
00:24:32,278 --> 00:24:35,718
Speaker 3: the fear and do it anyway. I think Sue the Grafton,

520
00:24:35,798 --> 00:24:37,838
Speaker 3: I think she wrote the book something like that. But

521
00:24:37,918 --> 00:24:39,958
Speaker 3: feel the fear and do it anyway. We all are.

522
00:24:40,078 --> 00:24:43,158
Speaker 3: We all confronted with that. That's that uncomfortable moment. And

523
00:24:43,398 --> 00:24:45,478
Speaker 3: if you want to be great, you have to facial

524
00:24:45,558 --> 00:24:46,798
Speaker 3: uncomfortable moments.

525
00:24:47,278 --> 00:24:51,118
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you said, you know, establish expectations and

526
00:24:51,158 --> 00:24:55,678
Speaker 1: don't be afraid of identifying them, you know. Dave Roberts

527
00:24:55,718 --> 00:24:57,758
Speaker 1: says a couple of years ago took some heat because

528
00:24:57,758 --> 00:24:58,878
Speaker 1: he said we're going to win.

529
00:24:58,758 --> 00:25:01,398
Speaker 2: The World Series. Well, what's he supposed to say?

530
00:25:01,798 --> 00:25:04,478
Speaker 1: You know, if you want to be politically correct, say well,

531
00:25:04,558 --> 00:25:07,078
Speaker 1: I think we have a chance to play meaningful games

532
00:25:07,078 --> 00:25:07,838
Speaker 1: in September.

533
00:25:07,918 --> 00:25:10,558
Speaker 2: I hate No, you're there.

534
00:25:10,318 --> 00:25:13,318
Speaker 1: To win, and we've seen a lot of teams win

535
00:25:13,398 --> 00:25:15,518
Speaker 1: the World Series, go back to all the way back

536
00:25:15,518 --> 00:25:18,918
Speaker 1: to last year. Anybody think about the Texas Rangers as

537
00:25:18,958 --> 00:25:20,078
Speaker 1: a World Series champion?

538
00:25:20,238 --> 00:25:20,838
Speaker 2: I guarantee it.

539
00:25:20,918 --> 00:25:23,838
Speaker 1: Bruce Bochie was, but just because the rest of the

540
00:25:23,838 --> 00:25:26,358
Speaker 1: world doesn't. Don't settle for just Hey, we want to

541
00:25:26,398 --> 00:25:29,958
Speaker 1: play meaningful games in September. No, go ahead and aim high.

542
00:25:29,998 --> 00:25:31,718
Speaker 1: This is why you're there. This is why you play

543
00:25:31,758 --> 00:25:34,118
Speaker 1: these games. And do I think the Oakland A's have

544
00:25:34,158 --> 00:25:35,998
Speaker 1: a chance to win the World Series this year? No,

545
00:25:36,118 --> 00:25:38,158
Speaker 1: that's not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about

546
00:25:38,198 --> 00:25:41,038
Speaker 1: teams that are competitive. You know, you have a pretty

547
00:25:41,038 --> 00:25:44,198
Speaker 1: good ball club. Why not talk about winning the World Series?

548
00:25:44,278 --> 00:25:45,518
Speaker 1: That's why you're there, folks.

549
00:25:45,798 --> 00:25:47,158
Speaker 3: If it comes out of your mouth, you've got a

550
00:25:47,238 --> 00:25:48,838
Speaker 3: chance to have it done. If it doesn't come out,

551
00:25:49,118 --> 00:25:51,478
Speaker 3: I've always felt that. I mean, I've said some things,

552
00:25:51,518 --> 00:25:53,318
Speaker 3: you know, and I get out there a little bit sometimes,

553
00:25:53,838 --> 00:25:58,518
Speaker 3: but always I don't know what. Weirdly, historically, I'm from

554
00:25:58,518 --> 00:26:01,718
Speaker 3: a personal perspective. If I say it, it has a

555
00:26:01,798 --> 00:26:04,638
Speaker 3: much better chance of it coming to fruition coming true.

556
00:26:04,998 --> 00:26:06,878
Speaker 3: And if I just hold it inside, it just it

557
00:26:06,958 --> 00:26:10,038
Speaker 3: just continues to percolate or fester, whatever you want to

558
00:26:10,078 --> 00:26:12,598
Speaker 3: call it. But don't be afraid to make proclamations in

559
00:26:12,638 --> 00:26:15,838
Speaker 3: that regard. And again, like you're saying it's over the top,

560
00:26:15,878 --> 00:26:17,478
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, you have to. You have to temper

561
00:26:17,518 --> 00:26:19,878
Speaker 3: that a bit. But even listen, brother, if I'm running

562
00:26:19,918 --> 00:26:21,638
Speaker 3: the Oakland A's I'm going to try to convince these

563
00:26:21,678 --> 00:26:24,638
Speaker 3: guys somehow, And that's spring training. I'm not talking meaningful

564
00:26:24,678 --> 00:26:28,198
Speaker 3: games in September because that's that's another easy out for me.

565
00:26:28,998 --> 00:26:31,638
Speaker 3: That's that's that is exact. You talk right there. I

566
00:26:31,958 --> 00:26:35,638
Speaker 3: want to play playoff games in September, October, November. I

567
00:26:35,838 --> 00:26:39,238
Speaker 3: want to play playoff games. So in some way, uh,

568
00:26:39,398 --> 00:26:41,438
Speaker 3: and it can and I listen, you're right open to

569
00:26:41,478 --> 00:26:43,518
Speaker 3: be an unrealistic. There's certain teams will be under I

570
00:26:43,598 --> 00:26:46,558
Speaker 3: get that, but somehow I'd want to convince them that

571
00:26:46,838 --> 00:26:48,558
Speaker 3: if everything were to break right, we have a shot

572
00:26:48,638 --> 00:26:50,478
Speaker 3: to get to the playoffs. And I got to get them,

573
00:26:50,518 --> 00:26:53,518
Speaker 3: ayming high man, because if they don't, we're just We're

574
00:26:53,558 --> 00:26:56,118
Speaker 3: just going to be You're gonna have this awful record

575
00:26:56,158 --> 00:27:01,198
Speaker 3: in the middle of May, June, July, August, and it's tough.

576
00:27:01,558 --> 00:27:04,918
Speaker 3: It's tough going to the ballpark under those circumstances. It's

577
00:27:04,998 --> 00:27:05,798
Speaker 3: very difficult.

578
00:27:06,118 --> 00:27:11,158
Speaker 1: Real quick, Joe, if if Steven Vote or Carlos Mendoza

579
00:27:11,638 --> 00:27:14,278
Speaker 1: asked you what am I in for as a rookie manager,

580
00:27:14,758 --> 00:27:17,758
Speaker 1: and think about vote. He just stopped playing two years ago.

581
00:27:18,118 --> 00:27:21,038
Speaker 1: You know, in one year of coaching, he's got Carlos

582
00:27:21,038 --> 00:27:23,998
Speaker 1: Albertaez is his bench coach, He's got the veteran Carl

583
00:27:24,038 --> 00:27:27,318
Speaker 1: Willis's pitching coach. And then you have Carlos Mendoza with

584
00:27:27,518 --> 00:27:31,758
Speaker 1: the New York Mets, who who has some years coaching

585
00:27:31,838 --> 00:27:35,078
Speaker 1: under Aaron Boone with the Yankees. What do you think

586
00:27:35,158 --> 00:27:37,718
Speaker 1: when they look back on their rookie season will strike

587
00:27:37,798 --> 00:27:41,398
Speaker 1: them as something that maybe was different or most challenging

588
00:27:41,678 --> 00:27:43,798
Speaker 1: about being a rookie manager in the big leagues.

589
00:27:44,278 --> 00:27:46,718
Speaker 3: Well, let me go vote first. I think it's going

590
00:27:46,798 --> 00:27:48,958
Speaker 3: to be quick in the beginning because he's never really

591
00:27:48,998 --> 00:27:52,318
Speaker 3: done this, whereas Mendoza has, I mean as a bench coach,

592
00:27:53,318 --> 00:27:56,438
Speaker 3: and Doza's had to process the game from that from

593
00:27:56,478 --> 00:27:59,998
Speaker 3: that step to be an advisor to manage of the

594
00:28:00,038 --> 00:28:03,878
Speaker 3: New York Yankees. So that's he's got some decent back

595
00:28:03,918 --> 00:28:05,478
Speaker 3: ground right there. I mean, I'm just you know, my

596
00:28:05,798 --> 00:28:09,318
Speaker 3: personal level, when I became a manager, I'd already been

597
00:28:09,358 --> 00:28:13,758
Speaker 3: there for Marcel and Terry Collins and and so for

598
00:28:13,918 --> 00:28:16,518
Speaker 3: years and before that, you know, I'd run an organization,

599
00:28:16,558 --> 00:28:18,438
Speaker 3: I'd run the minor league system for a long time,

600
00:28:18,518 --> 00:28:21,798
Speaker 3: So there's there's a there's an ability to slow things down.

601
00:28:21,878 --> 00:28:24,038
Speaker 3: Even though Voter had been a player, and I get it,

602
00:28:24,078 --> 00:28:25,718
Speaker 3: and he played a lot a long time and he

603
00:28:25,758 --> 00:28:29,038
Speaker 3: played well, it's different when you're in there trying to decide,

604
00:28:29,878 --> 00:28:32,238
Speaker 3: make decisions for and be and be ahead of the

605
00:28:32,278 --> 00:28:36,198
Speaker 3: process always on a nightly basis in a very fast

606
00:28:36,238 --> 00:28:39,198
Speaker 3: major league game. Again from up top, it is kind

607
00:28:39,238 --> 00:28:42,438
Speaker 3: of like a nice slow dance when you're in the dugout.

608
00:28:42,438 --> 00:28:44,718
Speaker 3: It's almost like that beginning of Star Trek when the

609
00:28:44,798 --> 00:28:48,078
Speaker 3: enterprise just becomes a blur and runs out of site.

610
00:28:48,118 --> 00:28:50,598
Speaker 3: It's just there's two different methods or speech of the game.

611
00:28:50,958 --> 00:28:52,878
Speaker 3: So I think the quickness of the game as a

612
00:28:52,958 --> 00:28:55,958
Speaker 3: manager a thinking component of the game. Alb and him

613
00:28:55,958 --> 00:28:58,838
Speaker 3: are going to have to figure that out. And on

614
00:28:58,838 --> 00:29:00,838
Speaker 3: on Dozes's side, I mean I read a lot what

615
00:29:00,958 --> 00:29:04,278
Speaker 3: he says. The guy is, uh, he's he's he's got,

616
00:29:04,318 --> 00:29:06,878
Speaker 3: he's got away with words, he's he's pretty bright, and

617
00:29:06,918 --> 00:29:10,198
Speaker 3: he's also he's well thought out. That's that's what I'm

618
00:29:10,198 --> 00:29:14,078
Speaker 3: getting from. I read about his positivity and the different

619
00:29:14,478 --> 00:29:17,878
Speaker 3: attributes that I think that turns sterns on and and

620
00:29:17,878 --> 00:29:20,518
Speaker 3: and led him to this particular moment for him, I

621
00:29:20,558 --> 00:29:23,198
Speaker 3: just think it's going to be two when when he

622
00:29:23,638 --> 00:29:26,678
Speaker 3: when crap hits the fan for the first time, that

623
00:29:26,758 --> 00:29:30,798
Speaker 3: he's able to stay with his his philosophy's his thoughts,

624
00:29:30,838 --> 00:29:34,078
Speaker 3: his methods. He talks a lot about trust and building relationships.

625
00:29:34,078 --> 00:29:36,038
Speaker 3: He talks about that a lot, which I love. So

626
00:29:36,878 --> 00:29:38,478
Speaker 3: for him, I think it's going to be this first

627
00:29:38,758 --> 00:29:41,998
Speaker 3: New York crap hits the fan. Things aren't working like

628
00:29:42,038 --> 00:29:44,198
Speaker 3: we had talked about, being able to stay with this

629
00:29:44,318 --> 00:29:46,638
Speaker 3: message is going to be very important where I think

630
00:29:46,718 --> 00:29:48,958
Speaker 3: voter and that group. On the other hand, I don't

631
00:29:48,958 --> 00:29:52,198
Speaker 3: know that the expectations are nearly assigned. He's working off Broadway.

632
00:29:53,038 --> 00:29:55,198
Speaker 3: I just think the quickness of the game, he needs

633
00:29:55,238 --> 00:29:56,638
Speaker 3: to get a handle on that, and then he's going

634
00:29:56,718 --> 00:29:57,318
Speaker 3: to be just fine.

635
00:29:57,758 --> 00:29:59,878
Speaker 1: Hey, we want to talk also about the news we

636
00:30:00,198 --> 00:30:02,518
Speaker 1: always generates this time of year in spring training, when

637
00:30:02,518 --> 00:30:05,998
Speaker 1: the stars report to camp. I mean, most news media people

638
00:30:06,038 --> 00:30:08,238
Speaker 1: haven't seen them, spoken to them for a few months,

639
00:30:08,278 --> 00:30:10,598
Speaker 1: so no matter what they say, they tend to generate

640
00:30:10,598 --> 00:30:11,238
Speaker 1: a headline.

641
00:30:11,318 --> 00:30:12,078
Speaker 2: That certainly was.

642
00:30:12,038 --> 00:30:14,038
Speaker 1: The case with Mike Trout, And I want to ask

643
00:30:14,118 --> 00:30:18,638
Speaker 1: Joe about Mike Trout and shoe Otani and the futures

644
00:30:18,678 --> 00:30:33,358
Speaker 1: ahead of both of those guys. Right after this, well, Joe,

645
00:30:33,438 --> 00:30:35,438
Speaker 1: let's talk about a couple of year former players, sho

646
00:30:35,638 --> 00:30:39,518
Speaker 1: Otani and Mike Trout. First, show A obviously not pitching

647
00:30:39,518 --> 00:30:43,158
Speaker 1: this year as he rehabs from Tommy John surgery. I've

648
00:30:43,158 --> 00:30:46,678
Speaker 1: been amazed, Joe at how much better show Hey has

649
00:30:46,718 --> 00:30:50,118
Speaker 1: gotten as a hitter at the big league level while pitching.

650
00:30:50,318 --> 00:30:52,238
Speaker 1: You know, last year made twenty three starts. I thought

651
00:30:52,278 --> 00:30:55,758
Speaker 1: that was his best offensive season ever. He has become

652
00:30:55,798 --> 00:30:57,918
Speaker 1: the best fastball hitter in the big leagues. He had

653
00:30:57,918 --> 00:30:59,878
Speaker 1: a little bit of trouble with that early in his career,

654
00:30:59,958 --> 00:31:02,558
Speaker 1: especially on the ball up and in so I see

655
00:31:02,558 --> 00:31:06,478
Speaker 1: a guy on a jectory straight up offensively, and now

656
00:31:06,518 --> 00:31:10,638
Speaker 1: I'm thinking in that lineup and not having you know,

657
00:31:10,718 --> 00:31:13,718
Speaker 1: the game prep as a pitcher and throw in the

658
00:31:13,758 --> 00:31:17,398
Speaker 1: recovery as well. I mean, Joe, it could be scary

659
00:31:17,478 --> 00:31:18,998
Speaker 1: the kind of numbers that he put up. He won

660
00:31:19,038 --> 00:31:21,238
Speaker 1: a home run title last year with forty four, and

661
00:31:21,358 --> 00:31:24,158
Speaker 1: he essentially barely played in the last three weeks of

662
00:31:24,198 --> 00:31:27,318
Speaker 1: this season. Give me your thoughts on Showhy now that

663
00:31:27,438 --> 00:31:29,838
Speaker 1: he will be dedicated only to hitting.

664
00:31:29,918 --> 00:31:32,438
Speaker 2: I know he did that before after his first Timmy John.

665
00:31:32,238 --> 00:31:35,718
Speaker 1: Surgery, but I think he's a much better hitter now

666
00:31:35,718 --> 00:31:37,078
Speaker 1: when he first got to the big leagues.

667
00:31:37,438 --> 00:31:40,478
Speaker 3: Well, first off, mechanically, I think he's better. I mean

668
00:31:40,798 --> 00:31:42,198
Speaker 3: when I saw him when I first got there in

669
00:31:42,238 --> 00:31:45,118
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, he was spinning off everything and he was

670
00:31:45,118 --> 00:31:47,758
Speaker 3: coming off with surgery and things weren't really back to

671
00:31:47,758 --> 00:31:49,438
Speaker 3: where they had been. So I never saw him really

672
00:31:49,438 --> 00:31:51,878
Speaker 3: good when he first got to the Angels, and I

673
00:31:51,918 --> 00:31:53,638
Speaker 3: saw him not so good with the Angels. Then I

674
00:31:53,638 --> 00:31:56,358
Speaker 3: saw him like wow. So first of all, I think

675
00:31:56,398 --> 00:32:00,438
Speaker 3: his hitting mechanics's balanced got much better over the last

676
00:32:00,478 --> 00:32:03,118
Speaker 3: couple of years. That's what I've seen. And you nailed

677
00:32:03,158 --> 00:32:05,758
Speaker 3: it right there. This boy can hit a high ball. Man,

678
00:32:05,958 --> 00:32:08,438
Speaker 3: he hits a high ball. Well, you can't throw an

679
00:32:08,438 --> 00:32:12,038
Speaker 3: elevated fastball by him. He'll he'll get on top of it,

680
00:32:12,518 --> 00:32:14,798
Speaker 3: he'll look for it, he won't miss it, and it's

681
00:32:14,838 --> 00:32:17,558
Speaker 3: going to go far. So I think the better balance

682
00:32:17,598 --> 00:32:20,118
Speaker 3: in his swing last several years, I think the ability

683
00:32:20,158 --> 00:32:21,958
Speaker 3: to really handle the ball up and like you're saying,

684
00:32:22,038 --> 00:32:23,878
Speaker 3: up and in, you can't go there because he's so

685
00:32:23,998 --> 00:32:25,718
Speaker 3: smart if he thinks you're going to go there, and

686
00:32:25,758 --> 00:32:27,518
Speaker 3: you will. The big thing is not only to look

687
00:32:27,518 --> 00:32:29,838
Speaker 3: for it and there it is, but you can't take it,

688
00:32:30,398 --> 00:32:31,958
Speaker 3: miss it followed off whatever, you got to hit it

689
00:32:31,998 --> 00:32:33,798
Speaker 3: hard and keep it fair, which he does in the

690
00:32:33,878 --> 00:32:36,638
Speaker 3: last point. What I've noticed is more off field. I

691
00:32:36,638 --> 00:32:40,478
Speaker 3: think he's more wanting to or able to just pook

692
00:32:40,558 --> 00:32:42,638
Speaker 3: the ball to the left side when it's necessary to

693
00:32:42,678 --> 00:32:45,798
Speaker 3: move the ball, and maybe driving a point and be

694
00:32:45,878 --> 00:32:47,398
Speaker 3: much more of a pinion. But because he likes to

695
00:32:47,438 --> 00:32:49,478
Speaker 3: run the basis, he likes to get out there and

696
00:32:49,518 --> 00:32:52,078
Speaker 3: be on the basis. He likes that too. He's he

697
00:32:52,118 --> 00:32:55,798
Speaker 3: plays a complete game so dangerous because of all those

698
00:32:55,798 --> 00:32:58,638
Speaker 3: different reasons. Better balance kills the high ball, which is

699
00:32:58,638 --> 00:33:00,758
Speaker 3: that's part of a game right now. And now he

700
00:33:00,838 --> 00:33:02,758
Speaker 3: knows that the change up something soft in a way

701
00:33:02,798 --> 00:33:05,318
Speaker 3: could go the other way. He's got all of that

702
00:33:05,438 --> 00:33:08,038
Speaker 3: in the playbook right now. And like you said, with

703
00:33:08,118 --> 00:33:10,398
Speaker 3: the I was just I was just like I thought

704
00:33:10,398 --> 00:33:12,278
Speaker 3: about this a little bit, the fact that I don't

705
00:33:12,318 --> 00:33:16,678
Speaker 3: know to what extent pitching balanced out this need to

706
00:33:16,758 --> 00:33:19,798
Speaker 3: just hit all the time. So is he gonna miss that?

707
00:33:20,038 --> 00:33:23,238
Speaker 3: Is he gonna miss that workout and going out and pitching,

708
00:33:23,278 --> 00:33:24,998
Speaker 3: is there, like, is it a way to park the

709
00:33:25,078 --> 00:33:27,558
Speaker 3: mind a little bit, to not become too obsessed with

710
00:33:27,558 --> 00:33:30,238
Speaker 3: your hitting. So I'm just curious if he gets overly

711
00:33:30,278 --> 00:33:33,518
Speaker 3: obsessed with the hitting and misses the balance in his game.

712
00:33:33,598 --> 00:33:35,358
Speaker 3: It's kind of like him playing defense. He's not a

713
00:33:35,358 --> 00:33:37,398
Speaker 3: defensive player. I didn't even be curious if they're going

714
00:33:37,398 --> 00:33:38,958
Speaker 3: to put him on defense at some point this year,

715
00:33:38,998 --> 00:33:42,318
Speaker 3: I would be I would I really like, if something

716
00:33:42,358 --> 00:33:44,038
Speaker 3: were to break down on the Dodgers, would they actually

717
00:33:44,078 --> 00:33:46,918
Speaker 3: put him on defense in the outfield if they need to,

718
00:33:47,038 --> 00:33:47,598
Speaker 3: You don't think so.

719
00:33:48,158 --> 00:33:49,918
Speaker 2: No, no they won't.

720
00:33:50,358 --> 00:33:53,678
Speaker 1: But if for whatever reason, if he has trouble rehabbing

721
00:33:53,838 --> 00:33:57,638
Speaker 1: and next year is not the same pitcher, absolutely he

722
00:33:57,718 --> 00:33:59,278
Speaker 1: becomes an option to play the outfield.

723
00:33:59,318 --> 00:34:00,798
Speaker 2: I mean, this guy is such a good athlete.

724
00:34:00,878 --> 00:34:03,438
Speaker 1: When he was first drafted by the Fighters, they talked

725
00:34:03,438 --> 00:34:04,638
Speaker 1: about him shortstop.

726
00:34:04,718 --> 00:34:05,878
Speaker 2: I could see a true story.

727
00:34:06,798 --> 00:34:09,438
Speaker 1: It's an interesting point you make, though, Joe about now

728
00:34:09,518 --> 00:34:13,678
Speaker 1: just dedicated to hitting. Because I've always said you know this,

729
00:34:13,758 --> 00:34:15,758
Speaker 1: I've said this to you. The best thing about show

730
00:34:15,758 --> 00:34:18,038
Speaker 1: Hey is he wants to be a two way player.

731
00:34:18,078 --> 00:34:20,678
Speaker 1: This is in his heart, and the American way is

732
00:34:20,718 --> 00:34:23,438
Speaker 1: to specialize. And for years and years people have said, oh,

733
00:34:23,558 --> 00:34:25,638
Speaker 1: just imagine if he was just a pitcher, how good

734
00:34:25,638 --> 00:34:28,438
Speaker 1: he'd be, Or oh, just imagine if he just concentrated

735
00:34:28,478 --> 00:34:30,918
Speaker 1: on hitting, how good he would be. I think doing

736
00:34:30,958 --> 00:34:33,558
Speaker 1: both brings out the best in show. Hey Otani. So

737
00:34:33,598 --> 00:34:36,358
Speaker 1: it's an interesting point you make about now just being

738
00:34:36,518 --> 00:34:39,238
Speaker 1: a full time hitter, and listen, he'll be doing all

739
00:34:39,278 --> 00:34:41,358
Speaker 1: his rehab work and at some point he's on a

740
00:34:41,398 --> 00:34:43,998
Speaker 1: throwing program. It's not like he's just not throwing, but

741
00:34:44,118 --> 00:34:47,598
Speaker 1: as far as game ready pitching, that's not part of

742
00:34:47,638 --> 00:34:49,158
Speaker 1: his mindset this year.

743
00:34:49,158 --> 00:34:51,238
Speaker 2: And I absolutely I agree. I think he'll miss it

744
00:34:51,278 --> 00:34:51,558
Speaker 2: a lot.

745
00:34:51,758 --> 00:34:54,398
Speaker 3: I do, I do. I mean, he's he likes to

746
00:34:54,398 --> 00:34:56,398
Speaker 3: be doing things. You don't see him a lot out

747
00:34:56,398 --> 00:34:58,478
Speaker 3: there because he likes to do things underneath. He's good

748
00:34:58,518 --> 00:35:00,838
Speaker 3: in the cage. He loves in the cage. He'll get

749
00:35:00,878 --> 00:35:03,718
Speaker 3: his workouts on the mound done at a good hour

750
00:35:04,278 --> 00:35:06,158
Speaker 3: away from the maddening crowd because he just has to

751
00:35:06,238 --> 00:35:08,438
Speaker 3: be I mean, he gets so he's the beatles man.

752
00:35:08,478 --> 00:35:10,398
Speaker 3: He gets, he gets inun dated. He's all four of

753
00:35:10,398 --> 00:35:13,598
Speaker 3: them wrapped into one, and so he likes to do

754
00:35:13,678 --> 00:35:17,638
Speaker 3: his work on his own, which I understand, but yeah,

755
00:35:17,678 --> 00:35:19,718
Speaker 3: I just I would just watch this play out. I

756
00:35:19,758 --> 00:35:22,158
Speaker 3: don't know that it's a slam dunk that just hitting

757
00:35:22,198 --> 00:35:25,438
Speaker 3: is going to be a difference maker, you know, theoretically

758
00:35:25,438 --> 00:35:29,278
Speaker 3: it sounds that way, but I just, like you said,

759
00:35:29,318 --> 00:35:31,038
Speaker 3: I know much he likes the pitch, and he likes

760
00:35:31,078 --> 00:35:34,678
Speaker 3: the competitive part of pitching, and like I said, it's

761
00:35:34,678 --> 00:35:36,838
Speaker 3: good to park your mind sometimes and not just get

762
00:35:36,878 --> 00:35:40,718
Speaker 3: obsessed with one thing, and that's let's just see how

763
00:35:40,718 --> 00:35:43,118
Speaker 3: it plays out. He might just nail it. Of course,

764
00:35:43,118 --> 00:35:44,678
Speaker 3: he just might nail it, because that's who he is.

765
00:35:45,198 --> 00:35:47,718
Speaker 3: But then again, it might he might miss it so

766
00:35:47,838 --> 00:35:51,238
Speaker 3: much or become so lopsided in his game when it

767
00:35:51,358 --> 00:35:54,838
Speaker 3: just when it doesn't go well with this with his hitting,

768
00:35:55,078 --> 00:35:57,318
Speaker 3: he doesn't have his pitching to fall back onto right now.

769
00:35:57,798 --> 00:35:59,878
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would bet on him having a big year though,

770
00:35:59,918 --> 00:36:02,518
Speaker 1: given his talent, in the fact that now he's he's

771
00:36:02,518 --> 00:36:04,158
Speaker 1: playing on a team let's face it, that's going to

772
00:36:04,198 --> 00:36:05,878
Speaker 1: the playoffs, and he knows that from day one.

773
00:36:05,998 --> 00:36:08,278
Speaker 2: This is what he wants. This is the environment he wants.

774
00:36:08,958 --> 00:36:11,358
Speaker 1: And by the way, if you're drafting Fantasy league players

775
00:36:11,438 --> 00:36:14,638
Speaker 1: take Will Smith because he's a two ninety five career

776
00:36:14,718 --> 00:36:16,438
Speaker 1: hitter with runners in scoring position.

777
00:36:16,438 --> 00:36:17,678
Speaker 2: I've seen him do it many times.

778
00:36:17,678 --> 00:36:20,758
Speaker 1: He uses the whole field with runners out there, more

779
00:36:20,798 --> 00:36:23,238
Speaker 1: of a poll hitter with bases empty. And now he's

780
00:36:23,278 --> 00:36:26,718
Speaker 1: got Mookie Betts, Freddie Freeman, and shohe Otani in front

781
00:36:26,758 --> 00:36:30,118
Speaker 1: of him. Not only are they on base all the time,

782
00:36:30,678 --> 00:36:34,878
Speaker 1: all of them are excellent base runners. I mean excellent,

783
00:36:34,998 --> 00:36:37,798
Speaker 1: I mean top ten percent type base runners. So if

784
00:36:37,798 --> 00:36:40,438
Speaker 1: you're Will Smith, man traffic all year long.

785
00:36:40,958 --> 00:36:44,358
Speaker 3: I never quite understood why he didn't catch more earlier. Smith.

786
00:36:44,758 --> 00:36:47,558
Speaker 3: I know Barnes, he's got his reputation, and some of

787
00:36:47,598 --> 00:36:49,878
Speaker 3: the pitchers like to throw to him. And I didn't

788
00:36:49,878 --> 00:36:52,158
Speaker 3: watch Smith closely enough to know how good or bad,

789
00:36:52,158 --> 00:36:54,358
Speaker 3: but I thought he threw well. But I like this

790
00:36:54,398 --> 00:36:58,318
Speaker 3: guy swing a lot. This guy can flat hit. I

791
00:36:58,358 --> 00:37:00,638
Speaker 3: saw him as being a pretty darn good catcher. I

792
00:37:00,678 --> 00:37:02,118
Speaker 3: don't know if they were just trying to bring him

793
00:37:02,118 --> 00:37:05,198
Speaker 3: along slowly, or if some of thes were clamoring for

794
00:37:05,318 --> 00:37:08,758
Speaker 3: Barnes to catch. But this guy here, nobody talks about

795
00:37:08,838 --> 00:37:10,758
Speaker 3: him enough as being one of the top catchers in baseball.

796
00:37:10,798 --> 00:37:11,478
Speaker 3: But I think he is.

797
00:37:11,958 --> 00:37:14,318
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Mike Trout, because Joe, you and I

798
00:37:14,358 --> 00:37:16,198
Speaker 1: have talked about this a lot. One of the most

799
00:37:16,398 --> 00:37:19,558
Speaker 1: overrated narratives that's been going on the last couple of

800
00:37:19,638 --> 00:37:22,398
Speaker 1: years is that the Angels should trade Mike Trout.

801
00:37:23,118 --> 00:37:25,838
Speaker 2: Mike Trout's not going anywhere, folks. We've been saying that

802
00:37:25,918 --> 00:37:26,358
Speaker 2: for years.

803
00:37:26,398 --> 00:37:28,838
Speaker 1: If you know Mike Trout a little bit, you know

804
00:37:28,998 --> 00:37:32,638
Speaker 1: he is one loyal cat. He's not the kind of

805
00:37:32,638 --> 00:37:34,678
Speaker 1: guy that rocked the boat. He's not the kind of

806
00:37:34,678 --> 00:37:37,598
Speaker 1: guy who's going to put himself above an organization that

807
00:37:37,758 --> 00:37:41,438
Speaker 1: drafted him when twenty two other teams didn't draft him,

808
00:37:41,438 --> 00:37:45,278
Speaker 1: that gave him the biggest extension in baseball, twelve year contract.

809
00:37:46,278 --> 00:37:49,438
Speaker 2: He said it well, Joe. He's a people pleaser.

810
00:37:49,558 --> 00:37:52,558
Speaker 1: He wants to please the people around him, whether it's

811
00:37:52,558 --> 00:37:55,678
Speaker 1: family or whether it's Ardy Moreno, whether it's Angels fans.

812
00:37:56,118 --> 00:37:58,878
Speaker 1: He is not going to rock the boat. And people

813
00:37:58,958 --> 00:38:01,318
Speaker 1: love to write, Oh, Mike Trout's got to get out

814
00:38:01,358 --> 00:38:03,918
Speaker 1: of here. He's got to force the trade. So, of course,

815
00:38:04,038 --> 00:38:06,358
Speaker 1: Mike Trout shows up again in spring training, this time

816
00:38:06,398 --> 00:38:08,878
Speaker 1: without show Hey Otani for the first time in seven years,

817
00:38:09,238 --> 00:38:13,038
Speaker 1: and the question is about demanding a trade, and Mike

818
00:38:13,238 --> 00:38:17,238
Speaker 1: again said, you know, I think the easy way out

819
00:38:17,518 --> 00:38:18,758
Speaker 1: is to ask for a trade.

820
00:38:19,278 --> 00:38:21,238
Speaker 2: Mike is not the kind of guy to take an

821
00:38:21,318 --> 00:38:22,478
Speaker 2: easy way out.

822
00:38:22,838 --> 00:38:25,438
Speaker 1: Is he frustrated? Of course he is. Does he want

823
00:38:25,478 --> 00:38:28,318
Speaker 1: to win? Of course he is. The second worst narrative

824
00:38:28,358 --> 00:38:31,158
Speaker 1: is that Mike Trout is happy each year the angel's

825
00:38:31,198 --> 00:38:34,278
Speaker 1: not going to the playoffs collecting his paycheck. No, it

826
00:38:34,398 --> 00:38:36,558
Speaker 1: eats at him. But what he wants to do is

827
00:38:36,718 --> 00:38:40,278
Speaker 1: win with the team that he's loyal to. It's that simple,

828
00:38:40,318 --> 00:38:42,478
Speaker 1: and people have a hard time understanding that.

829
00:38:42,558 --> 00:38:42,838
Speaker 3: Joey.

830
00:38:42,878 --> 00:38:45,678
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Mike, you don't get any pretenses

831
00:38:45,718 --> 00:38:47,798
Speaker 1: with him. He's going to tell you the way that

832
00:38:47,838 --> 00:38:50,358
Speaker 1: it is. And I think the mistake of a lot

833
00:38:50,398 --> 00:38:53,318
Speaker 1: of people in the media, out and fans is to

834
00:38:53,358 --> 00:38:56,718
Speaker 1: try to find other intentions or agendas for Mike Trout.

835
00:38:56,958 --> 00:38:57,558
Speaker 2: They're not there.

836
00:38:58,118 --> 00:39:00,478
Speaker 3: No, he is who he is. So we've talked about

837
00:39:00,478 --> 00:39:04,838
Speaker 3: this too. In a very minute way, I could identify

838
00:39:04,878 --> 00:39:06,318
Speaker 3: with him being from the part of the world that

839
00:39:06,358 --> 00:39:08,718
Speaker 3: he's from, how he was raised, the town that he

840
00:39:08,718 --> 00:39:12,038
Speaker 3: had been raised in. You know, his family is his parents,

841
00:39:12,078 --> 00:39:16,198
Speaker 3: et cetera. A very very similar background and to it

842
00:39:16,398 --> 00:39:19,998
Speaker 3: be so antithetical Abhorn to think that I would demand

843
00:39:20,038 --> 00:39:22,118
Speaker 3: anything and he would not demand anything, like when it

844
00:39:22,158 --> 00:39:25,718
Speaker 3: comes to an organization to trade me or whatever the

845
00:39:25,758 --> 00:39:29,118
Speaker 3: demands might be. I would say this though, I think

846
00:39:29,158 --> 00:39:33,278
Speaker 3: that if the Angels traded him, of course he would

847
00:39:33,318 --> 00:39:36,118
Speaker 3: go willingly at that particular juncture, but he'll never demand

848
00:39:36,198 --> 00:39:38,678
Speaker 3: a trade. And I'm not saying that he wants one,

849
00:39:38,718 --> 00:39:40,718
Speaker 3: like you said, I don't say that, but I thought

850
00:39:40,758 --> 00:39:42,798
Speaker 3: they they would have traded him. I did after like

851
00:39:42,838 --> 00:39:47,118
Speaker 3: I said, Showey did not sign and I thought, at

852
00:39:47,118 --> 00:39:49,598
Speaker 3: that particular juncture, you still want to get as much

853
00:39:49,638 --> 00:39:51,318
Speaker 3: as you can out of Mikey as you're trying to

854
00:39:51,638 --> 00:39:53,998
Speaker 3: rebuild it or build the situation, not even rebuild it,

855
00:39:54,038 --> 00:39:56,318
Speaker 3: build it. So I thought that was kind of curious

856
00:39:56,318 --> 00:39:58,598
Speaker 3: because we talked about that. If Showey does not sign

857
00:39:58,678 --> 00:40:00,798
Speaker 3: back with the Angels, I thought at that point they

858
00:40:00,798 --> 00:40:03,918
Speaker 3: should consider trading Michael, and we talked about that all

859
00:40:03,998 --> 00:40:06,398
Speaker 3: so last trade deadline when they chose to not trade

860
00:40:06,438 --> 00:40:09,878
Speaker 3: show Hey and what that meant to the organization moving forward. Also,

861
00:40:09,958 --> 00:40:12,958
Speaker 3: so there's all this other subplot about this. But then again,

862
00:40:12,958 --> 00:40:14,318
Speaker 3: when you look at some of the young players, they

863
00:40:14,318 --> 00:40:16,398
Speaker 3: got some nice young players coming to camp again, they

864
00:40:16,478 --> 00:40:19,478
Speaker 3: have to augment their pitching. Although there's a lot to like.

865
00:40:19,518 --> 00:40:22,158
Speaker 3: I mean, I like some of their young pitchers. I

866
00:40:22,198 --> 00:40:23,958
Speaker 3: was there with these guys. I like these kids a lot.

867
00:40:24,718 --> 00:40:26,118
Speaker 3: So at the end of the day, I'm getting off track.

868
00:40:26,158 --> 00:40:28,398
Speaker 3: But with Trouty, he's there. He wants to be there.

869
00:40:28,438 --> 00:40:30,318
Speaker 3: I agree with that. They do need to build around

870
00:40:30,318 --> 00:40:31,758
Speaker 3: them a little bit more. I don't know how they're

871
00:40:31,798 --> 00:40:33,998
Speaker 3: going to He can't replace show how you cannot replace them.

872
00:40:34,278 --> 00:40:35,838
Speaker 3: So it's just gonna have to be a different method

873
00:40:35,838 --> 00:40:39,158
Speaker 3: they're gonna have to incorporate in order to get back

874
00:40:39,198 --> 00:40:41,918
Speaker 3: to five hundred and beyond. But as far as Mike

875
00:40:42,038 --> 00:40:43,678
Speaker 3: is concerned, he'd be very happy to stay there for

876
00:40:43,678 --> 00:40:44,518
Speaker 3: the rest of his career.

877
00:40:45,158 --> 00:40:47,518
Speaker 1: Yeah, Joe, you and I know Artie Moreno is not

878
00:40:47,598 --> 00:40:48,518
Speaker 1: trading Mike Trout.

879
00:40:48,798 --> 00:40:50,398
Speaker 2: Come on, Artie Moreno.

880
00:40:50,878 --> 00:40:53,158
Speaker 1: You can attack whether he knows how to win the

881
00:40:53,238 --> 00:40:56,198
Speaker 1: right way and build a team around Mike Trout, but

882
00:40:56,718 --> 00:40:59,198
Speaker 1: he is there. I truly believe it's almost like an

883
00:40:59,198 --> 00:41:01,998
Speaker 1: old school type of owner. It matters to him about

884
00:41:01,998 --> 00:41:05,558
Speaker 1: the attendance, about the way fans and especially families view

885
00:41:05,598 --> 00:41:10,758
Speaker 1: his team, and Mike Trout is extremely popular in Anaheim.

886
00:41:11,078 --> 00:41:13,038
Speaker 1: And this is a guy who's every day I mean

887
00:41:13,198 --> 00:41:15,318
Speaker 1: literally every day You've seen it. He's out there signing

888
00:41:15,358 --> 00:41:18,638
Speaker 1: autographs for kids before a game. He is the definition

889
00:41:18,678 --> 00:41:22,358
Speaker 1: of a franchise player. The value that Mike Trout has

890
00:41:22,478 --> 00:41:26,118
Speaker 1: as the face of the franchise is enormous. And I

891
00:41:26,158 --> 00:41:29,278
Speaker 1: think Ardi Moreno is one of those owners and not

892
00:41:29,358 --> 00:41:32,478
Speaker 1: all think this way who truly values it's worth having

893
00:41:32,518 --> 00:41:34,998
Speaker 1: that ten pole player like Mike Trout. So he ain't

894
00:41:35,478 --> 00:41:38,158
Speaker 1: Mike Trout is not getting traded by Arti Morena.

895
00:41:38,118 --> 00:41:40,998
Speaker 3: You're right. I mean, I'm not denying that. I'm just

896
00:41:40,998 --> 00:41:42,918
Speaker 3: just being like just the view or the GM there,

897
00:41:42,958 --> 00:41:45,318
Speaker 3: if I was a GM there, whatever, how would you

898
00:41:45,358 --> 00:41:49,318
Speaker 3: approach that independent of what the owner was thinking. I mean,

899
00:41:49,358 --> 00:41:51,398
Speaker 3: what kind of thoughts would you bring to the owner

900
00:41:51,438 --> 00:41:55,398
Speaker 3: regarding not to try to get beyond just being this,

901
00:41:55,598 --> 00:41:57,918
Speaker 3: you know, this major league team in southern California that

902
00:41:58,038 --> 00:42:00,878
Speaker 3: has this reputation where Mike Trout is my centerpiece. How

903
00:42:00,878 --> 00:42:02,438
Speaker 3: do we get beyond that to the point where just

904
00:42:03,118 --> 00:42:06,518
Speaker 3: beyond just appearances, we're here to try to really win

905
00:42:06,558 --> 00:42:08,278
Speaker 3: this whole thing. And what it would take to do that,

906
00:42:08,358 --> 00:42:09,998
Speaker 3: and what kind of return would you get for somebody

907
00:42:10,038 --> 00:42:11,878
Speaker 3: like this. And I'm sure they have to have had

908
00:42:12,558 --> 00:42:15,598
Speaker 3: explored all the options with something like that, but that's it.

909
00:42:15,638 --> 00:42:18,878
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm just if being in that position where

910
00:42:18,878 --> 00:42:23,518
Speaker 3: you're trying to build a World Series winning team, what

911
00:42:23,518 --> 00:42:25,398
Speaker 3: would you actually do under those circumstances.

912
00:42:26,198 --> 00:42:27,998
Speaker 1: Yeah, well let's talk about that. First of all, they

913
00:42:27,998 --> 00:42:30,398
Speaker 1: need Mike Trout to stay healthy. There's no question about that.

914
00:42:30,758 --> 00:42:33,038
Speaker 1: Mike Trout hasn't had five hundred bats in the season

915
00:42:33,078 --> 00:42:35,958
Speaker 1: since he was twenty five years old. Think about that,

916
00:42:36,398 --> 00:42:39,478
Speaker 1: He's missed thirty three percent of the Angels games over

917
00:42:39,518 --> 00:42:42,318
Speaker 1: seven years. I want to see Mike Trout play a

918
00:42:42,358 --> 00:42:45,878
Speaker 1: full season because I've said this, Joe. He becomes a

919
00:42:45,958 --> 00:42:50,198
Speaker 1: more dangerous power hitter as he ages. There's no question

920
00:42:50,278 --> 00:42:52,438
Speaker 1: about that. He has learned the ability to get the

921
00:42:52,478 --> 00:42:55,358
Speaker 1: ball in the air, especially to pull side in the

922
00:42:55,438 --> 00:42:59,158
Speaker 1: right times. And it's typical of great hitters usually the

923
00:42:59,318 --> 00:43:03,438
Speaker 1: power quotion goes up as they age. And I think

924
00:43:03,478 --> 00:43:06,478
Speaker 1: he's a forty to fifty home run guy, if not more,

925
00:43:07,678 --> 00:43:09,358
Speaker 1: if you give him a full season. Now, he has

926
00:43:09,438 --> 00:43:12,798
Speaker 1: said he has gone to John Carpino and Arty Moreno

927
00:43:12,878 --> 00:43:14,958
Speaker 1: and pushed for them to sign more players.

928
00:43:15,158 --> 00:43:16,238
Speaker 2: And I get that.

929
00:43:16,558 --> 00:43:18,838
Speaker 1: Just because I said Mike Trout's not being traded doesn't

930
00:43:18,838 --> 00:43:21,358
Speaker 1: mean he's not behind the scenes saying go out there

931
00:43:21,558 --> 00:43:25,118
Speaker 1: and sign these players. Here's my question, Joe, if you're

932
00:43:25,118 --> 00:43:28,038
Speaker 1: already Moreno or you might put the Boston Red Sox

933
00:43:28,038 --> 00:43:30,518
Speaker 1: in this category as well, maybe even the Chicago Cubs.

934
00:43:31,078 --> 00:43:33,558
Speaker 1: You know, Scott Boris still has his clients out there.

935
00:43:33,798 --> 00:43:35,558
Speaker 1: You know, he's got five of the best free agents.

936
00:43:35,598 --> 00:43:37,318
Speaker 1: He's got four of the top eight free agents that

937
00:43:37,358 --> 00:43:40,398
Speaker 1: are still out there, Blake Snell, Cody Bellinger, Matt Chapman,

938
00:43:40,958 --> 00:43:44,358
Speaker 1: and who's the other one I'm forgetting here, Jordan Montgomery.

939
00:43:45,078 --> 00:43:47,238
Speaker 2: He's got impact players.

940
00:43:47,878 --> 00:43:48,118
Speaker 3: You know.

941
00:43:48,318 --> 00:43:50,958
Speaker 1: If you're the Angels and right now you look like,

942
00:43:51,558 --> 00:43:53,998
Speaker 1: you know, probably a best of the five hundred team

943
00:43:53,998 --> 00:43:56,558
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit below, can you go out there

944
00:43:56,558 --> 00:44:00,078
Speaker 1: and sign Blake Snell and Cody Bellinger and now think

945
00:44:00,118 --> 00:44:02,558
Speaker 1: you're going to the playoffs with Mike Trout, Or if

946
00:44:02,598 --> 00:44:05,598
Speaker 1: you're the Boston Red Sox right now on paper you

947
00:44:05,718 --> 00:44:07,838
Speaker 1: look like the last place team in the Al East.

948
00:44:08,278 --> 00:44:09,798
Speaker 2: You signed two of those pictures.

949
00:44:09,838 --> 00:44:12,598
Speaker 1: Now on Montgomery, are you all of a sudden now

950
00:44:12,638 --> 00:44:16,838
Speaker 1: going to the postseason, it's a very interesting dynamic, Joe,

951
00:44:16,878 --> 00:44:19,878
Speaker 1: to have these top free agent players still out there

952
00:44:19,918 --> 00:44:22,398
Speaker 1: after camps open. I'm not talking about one or two,

953
00:44:22,518 --> 00:44:24,558
Speaker 1: but a whole bunch of them who could be different

954
00:44:24,878 --> 00:44:27,838
Speaker 1: difference makers. So that's the question for me, Joe, is

955
00:44:27,878 --> 00:44:29,998
Speaker 1: if you're Arty Moreno, and you've made some mistakes on

956
00:44:30,758 --> 00:44:33,918
Speaker 1: huge contracts in the past that haven't worked out, is

957
00:44:33,958 --> 00:44:36,598
Speaker 1: it worth it to try to go for that brass

958
00:44:36,678 --> 00:44:40,398
Speaker 1: ring where you're not really a playoff team right now?

959
00:44:40,798 --> 00:44:43,158
Speaker 1: But did two of those players, not one put you

960
00:44:43,278 --> 00:44:45,038
Speaker 1: in the mix and what's the cost of that?

961
00:44:45,398 --> 00:44:47,318
Speaker 3: Well, you know, first of all, I mean I don't

962
00:44:47,358 --> 00:44:49,478
Speaker 3: see that Aarti succumbing to the pressure of even the

963
00:44:49,518 --> 00:44:53,518
Speaker 3: superstars asking him to sign particular players. I don't see

964
00:44:53,558 --> 00:44:55,958
Speaker 3: that being part of the landscape there. That's not what

965
00:44:56,038 --> 00:44:59,038
Speaker 3: I necessarily saw at that time. Arty would have to

966
00:44:59,078 --> 00:45:00,918
Speaker 3: be motivated on his own to want to get those

967
00:45:00,958 --> 00:45:02,838
Speaker 3: things done when it comes down to these players that

968
00:45:02,878 --> 00:45:05,518
Speaker 3: are available. From my perspective, heck yeah, I mean, if

969
00:45:05,558 --> 00:45:07,998
Speaker 3: if if I have a pretty nice looking ball club

970
00:45:07,998 --> 00:45:10,558
Speaker 3: and I got pictures of that caliber, and I know,

971
00:45:11,078 --> 00:45:13,438
Speaker 3: you know, Snell sayang, I get it, there's going to

972
00:45:13,518 --> 00:45:16,558
Speaker 3: be you have to have a pretty strong and formidable

973
00:45:16,638 --> 00:45:19,238
Speaker 3: bullpen to augment the innings that have to be pitched.

974
00:45:19,238 --> 00:45:21,598
Speaker 3: When he's starting listening to stuff, is that good. I've

975
00:45:21,598 --> 00:45:23,998
Speaker 3: seen this guy. I've only seen him good. I have

976
00:45:24,118 --> 00:45:27,318
Speaker 3: not seen him bad, and so that stuff is prodigious

977
00:45:27,358 --> 00:45:29,518
Speaker 3: and he is. He is. All of that just a

978
00:45:29,518 --> 00:45:32,118
Speaker 3: matter of him somehow getting more deeply into the game

979
00:45:32,278 --> 00:45:36,518
Speaker 3: or you're being able to support him from the backside. Montgomery,

980
00:45:36,598 --> 00:45:38,438
Speaker 3: on the other hand, I've always again, there's another guy.

981
00:45:38,478 --> 00:45:41,358
Speaker 3: I was was not shocked that he did so well

982
00:45:41,358 --> 00:45:44,518
Speaker 3: with Texas. I was kind of shocked at the Yankees

983
00:45:44,558 --> 00:45:46,278
Speaker 3: thought so little of him, you know what I had

984
00:45:46,278 --> 00:45:48,878
Speaker 3: read about after they had let him go. But yeah,

985
00:45:48,918 --> 00:45:51,358
Speaker 3: these two guys on a being signed by a team

986
00:45:51,398 --> 00:45:54,278
Speaker 3: that was does a decent or legitimate team on the

987
00:45:54,318 --> 00:45:57,238
Speaker 3: field position player wise, that just needs to augment their

988
00:45:57,278 --> 00:45:59,998
Speaker 3: pitching staff. This could be a yeah, it could be

989
00:46:00,038 --> 00:46:03,558
Speaker 3: a game change in regarding that. So I again, I

990
00:46:03,558 --> 00:46:06,278
Speaker 3: don't even and the Red Sox they just signed somebody

991
00:46:06,278 --> 00:46:08,998
Speaker 3: who the Red Sox just signed. I saw that. Well.

992
00:46:08,998 --> 00:46:10,958
Speaker 1: They got Liam Hendrix on a two year deal but

993
00:46:10,998 --> 00:46:12,558
Speaker 1: he's rehabbing one year.

994
00:46:12,438 --> 00:46:14,518
Speaker 3: Okay, is that right? It even that's one year of that.

995
00:46:14,678 --> 00:46:16,838
Speaker 3: So I don't know. I mean, yeah, these guys can

996
00:46:16,918 --> 00:46:19,398
Speaker 3: make a difference, but when it comes to the Angels,

997
00:46:19,558 --> 00:46:21,398
Speaker 3: I just don't see it happening there. I don't see

998
00:46:21,478 --> 00:46:23,478
Speaker 3: already going out and spending money on all those at

999
00:46:23,558 --> 00:46:24,438
Speaker 3: least two of those guys.

1000
00:46:24,678 --> 00:46:26,638
Speaker 2: You're probably right. I mean, listen to the Angels.

1001
00:46:26,798 --> 00:46:29,158
Speaker 1: They've spent a lot of money, but under ardy Moreno,

1002
00:46:29,158 --> 00:46:32,878
Speaker 1: they've gone over the first luxury tax threshold once and

1003
00:46:32,918 --> 00:46:36,198
Speaker 1: that was like an accounting error, but like twenty two cents,

1004
00:46:36,718 --> 00:46:41,158
Speaker 1: and last year they did incredible financial gymnastics moving players

1005
00:46:41,158 --> 00:46:44,398
Speaker 1: to get under the threshold. So does he all of

1006
00:46:44,438 --> 00:46:47,318
Speaker 1: a sudden change routine with a seventy four to eighty

1007
00:46:47,358 --> 00:46:49,238
Speaker 1: two win team and go for it now?

1008
00:46:49,358 --> 00:46:51,678
Speaker 2: Probably not, but it's interesting to see.

1009
00:46:51,398 --> 00:46:53,838
Speaker 1: How things are going to play out with It's very

1010
00:46:53,918 --> 00:46:56,638
Speaker 1: unusual have this many top free agents. There's always one

1011
00:46:56,678 --> 00:46:59,798
Speaker 1: or two maybe, but Scott Bores is sitting on five

1012
00:46:59,878 --> 00:47:02,598
Speaker 1: of them right here, and he promises they'll be ready

1013
00:47:02,598 --> 00:47:04,958
Speaker 1: to go, hitting the ground running and will not be

1014
00:47:04,958 --> 00:47:05,798
Speaker 1: behind schedule.

1015
00:47:05,838 --> 00:47:08,238
Speaker 2: We'll see. And speaking of prodigious stuff.

1016
00:47:08,318 --> 00:47:10,518
Speaker 1: Joe, I always think about you as our closer with

1017
00:47:10,638 --> 00:47:14,278
Speaker 1: prodigious stuff taking us out today, I wonder what you

1018
00:47:14,358 --> 00:47:14,918
Speaker 1: have in mind?

1019
00:47:15,118 --> 00:47:17,558
Speaker 3: Well, it was about decision making. How about that?

1020
00:47:17,678 --> 00:47:18,158
Speaker 2: I love it?

1021
00:47:18,278 --> 00:47:21,398
Speaker 3: I was, yeah, you and I had two that I

1022
00:47:21,438 --> 00:47:24,118
Speaker 3: was stuck on and I couldn't really decide on one.

1023
00:47:24,158 --> 00:47:27,078
Speaker 3: One is from an author that I really enjoyed reading,

1024
00:47:27,398 --> 00:47:31,198
Speaker 3: Malcolm Gladwell. Whether it was Blink, it was probably my

1025
00:47:31,238 --> 00:47:36,198
Speaker 3: favorite by him. But he said, truly successful decision making

1026
00:47:36,278 --> 00:47:41,038
Speaker 3: relies on a balance between deliberate and instinctive thinking. We've

1027
00:47:41,078 --> 00:47:44,838
Speaker 3: talked about that, but it's so succinct and it's appropriate

1028
00:47:44,838 --> 00:47:47,438
Speaker 3: and it's right on. And then the Lino Messi, the

1029
00:47:47,558 --> 00:47:51,838
Speaker 3: soccer dude, right right, And this guy's pretty pretty good

1030
00:47:51,878 --> 00:47:53,798
Speaker 3: from I understand, I'm not a soccer guy. But the

1031
00:47:53,838 --> 00:47:57,238
Speaker 3: best decisions aren't made with your mind but with your instinct.

1032
00:47:58,118 --> 00:48:00,838
Speaker 3: So does that mean that the analytical world has not

1033
00:48:00,918 --> 00:48:05,398
Speaker 3: overtaken the soccer world yet? But again, you're talking about, uh,

1034
00:48:05,558 --> 00:48:10,558
Speaker 3: deliberate and instinctive thinking, and then Messi's talking about, uh,

1035
00:48:10,918 --> 00:48:13,718
Speaker 3: the best decisions aren't with your mind, your instinct. I've

1036
00:48:13,758 --> 00:48:16,598
Speaker 3: always thought you you you always think I always think

1037
00:48:16,638 --> 00:48:19,238
Speaker 3: with three body parts, and that would be my mind,

1038
00:48:19,518 --> 00:48:24,278
Speaker 3: my heart, and my stomach my gut, and sometimes it's

1039
00:48:24,358 --> 00:48:27,558
Speaker 3: it's you know, everybody always wants to think that it's

1040
00:48:27,558 --> 00:48:31,398
Speaker 3: wise to choose and make decisions based on what you're thinking.

1041
00:48:31,438 --> 00:48:33,678
Speaker 3: But believe me, man, I think there's times when the

1042
00:48:33,678 --> 00:48:35,718
Speaker 3: heart matters and definitely where the gut matters. I mean,

1043
00:48:35,798 --> 00:48:38,558
Speaker 3: probably the gut, to me, is the most accurate decision

1044
00:48:38,598 --> 00:48:41,398
Speaker 3: maker that there is. And then I could argue over

1045
00:48:41,638 --> 00:48:44,678
Speaker 3: number two between the heart and the and the in

1046
00:48:44,718 --> 00:48:47,478
Speaker 3: the mind. I'm not sure there, like probably the heart

1047
00:48:47,518 --> 00:48:51,198
Speaker 3: being the least reliable, just because emotions get in the way.

1048
00:48:51,638 --> 00:48:53,998
Speaker 3: But man, if if you don't follow your instincts, brother,

1049
00:48:54,038 --> 00:48:55,758
Speaker 3: you're you're gonna you're gonna miss out on a lot

1050
00:48:55,758 --> 00:48:56,678
Speaker 3: of good situations.

1051
00:48:56,918 --> 00:48:59,598
Speaker 1: Joe, that sounds like really good advice for Steven Vote

1052
00:48:59,718 --> 00:49:03,678
Speaker 1: and Carlos Mendoza. You know, gut is not a dirty

1053
00:49:03,678 --> 00:49:06,238
Speaker 1: word if you explain yourself after a game on a

1054
00:49:06,278 --> 00:49:09,118
Speaker 1: decision that didn't work out, and part of it is

1055
00:49:09,358 --> 00:49:11,998
Speaker 1: using your experience in this game. And both these guys,

1056
00:49:12,038 --> 00:49:13,878
Speaker 1: either as players or coaches, have a ton of it.

1057
00:49:14,358 --> 00:49:18,038
Speaker 1: Why not rely on that and sort of admit to

1058
00:49:18,118 --> 00:49:22,718
Speaker 1: it that this was my most well informed decision. It's,

1059
00:49:22,918 --> 00:49:26,398
Speaker 1: as you said, a balance of the numbers and the gut.

1060
00:49:26,758 --> 00:49:29,318
Speaker 3: Tommy, you just nailed it, man, Gut is not a

1061
00:49:29,358 --> 00:49:32,918
Speaker 3: dirty word. Wow. You talk about a T shirt that

1062
00:49:32,998 --> 00:49:35,398
Speaker 3: should be the first Book of Joe T shirt that

1063
00:49:35,518 --> 00:49:37,478
Speaker 3: the Book of Joe thing on. They're pumpet on the back.

1064
00:49:37,918 --> 00:49:40,438
Speaker 3: Gut not Doug gut is it? Doug Gut is not

1065
00:49:40,478 --> 00:49:42,678
Speaker 3: a dirty word. Er gut is Gut is not a

1066
00:49:42,718 --> 00:49:46,198
Speaker 3: dirty word. That's awesome, brother, Yeah, that might be. That's

1067
00:49:46,198 --> 00:49:48,638
Speaker 3: for your next book right there, at least my next

1068
00:49:48,678 --> 00:49:51,398
Speaker 3: T shirt. Well done.

1069
00:49:51,438 --> 00:49:52,558
Speaker 2: Always a pleasure, Joe.

1070
00:49:52,638 --> 00:49:54,238
Speaker 3: Thanks save every buddy. Thank you.

1071
00:50:02,438 --> 00:50:05,678
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1072
00:50:05,878 --> 00:50:10,878
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1073
00:50:10,998 --> 00:50:12,758
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.